Thinking of buying a new car?

The Greens:

The sale of new petrol and diesel cars would be banned from 2030, under a proposal by the Greens to get more electric cars on the roads.

The ALP:

Bill Shorten will impose an ­aggressive pollution cap on ­industry and business if elected, in a bid to meet Labor’s ambitious climate change targets, and will push for half of all new cars sold in Australia to be electric within a decade.

This part of The Greens policy is particularly interesting:

  • Eliminate tariffs, stamp duty and GST on new electric car sales to make them more affordable, plus three years of free car registration

Stamp duty and rego are state taxes and GST is paid to the states. So have the Greens discussed their policy with the state governments?

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38 Responses to Thinking of buying a new car?

  1. stackja

    Greens will abolish the states. Today is April 1!

  2. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Nothing will impeded the long march to ultimate Darkness. All praise Lord Marx for his infinite equity.

  3. Ubique

    The Greens love coal powered cars!

  4. Ubique

    And the Greens released the results of modelling which demonstrates the effect, or lack thereof, their policy on electric cars would have on the climate, sea levels and polar bears.
    April Fool. There is no such modelling.

  5. Mark M

    3rd March 2019, BBC On This Day, 1975: Blue Peter showed how to beat rising petrol costs, with your own coal-powered car …

    https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/1102237196722077697

  6. lotocoti

    Let me see.
    The Big Smoke is out of range for the cars, electric.
    The old railway station only services coal fired locomotives, the new one, only diesel.
    Perhaps my next new car should be something from the sixties running on triple SU carbs.

  7. teamv

    Surely someone would have realised that pushing for electric cars will require reliable power supply.

    Especially give most of the cars will require charging at night…….

  8. Fat Tony

    teamv – the Greens have that one sorted.
    Only the elite (them) will be able to afford cars and electricity, so there will be no shortages.

  9. stackja

    FT – Socialist elites always look after themselves.

  10. notafan

    Who do the greens propose to slug instead?

    France recently had a let them buy electric cars moment, like the French elite the greens cannot conceive that there are ordinary people out there who have no capacity to buy a brand new car.

    Just think of all those struggling Indian students driving for Didi and Uber eats, for starters

  11. Shy Ted

    “I’d like a new car please.”
    Yes sir, anything in mind?”
    “I’ll have a V8 petrol Mustang, thanks.”
    “Sorry sir, we’ve sold our quota of petrol cars. You can have an electric one, still plenty left.”
    “Well, I’ll go to another dealer and get one.”
    “Same story, sir. All the dealerships have sold their quota of petrol cars. Same with diesel. Nice little electric one here, sir. Comes with free 13m power cord….”

  12. OldOzzie

    Store a Lot of Water at Home

    Labor’s carbon dioxide plan demands close scrutiny

    Editorial, The Daily Telegraph

    According to a firefighting guide published by electric car maker Tesla, extinguishing a battery blaze requires more than the usual resources.

    “If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery,” the Tesla guide instructs. And what do they mean, exactly, by “large amounts”?

    The guide continues: “It can take approximately 3000 gallons of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire.”

    That works out to around 11 tonnes. Quite how this fits with Labor’s aim for 50 per cent of all new car sales by 2030 to be electric is unclear. Miniature Warragamba dams at all city intersections, perhaps.

  13. stevem

    Tax breaks for electric cars? How dumb can these people get? Vast sums of cash from taxes and fuel excise are (nominally) allocated to road maintenance. How do we pay for road maintenance when all these tax revenues are lost?
    The other problem ignored is how do we charge these cars. If people drive their new electric cars the same way they drive their evil ICE cars we’ll need to double Australia’s electricity generation capacity. We struggle to meet demand today, let alone a doubling of demand. Of course that fails to take into account the extra power returned to the grid as the remainder of Australia’s industry closes or moves overseas.

  14. Roger

    If people drive their new electric cars the same way they drive their evil ICE cars we’ll need to double Australia’s electricity generation capacity.

    We’re going to need more windmills.

  15. Shy Ted

    “I’d like a new car please.”
    Yes sir, anything in mind?”
    “I’ll have a shiny new electric one, thanks. And a trade in price on the top of the range Commodore, 3 years old, 50,000kms, beautiful car.”
    “Be able to give you $5,000 trade in, sir.”
    “What!? It’s worth $30k.”
    “Not any more, sir. No market for petrol cars, gummint quotas, you see.”

  16. OldOzzie

    What First Responders Don’t Know About Fiery Electric Vehicles

    Lithium-ion batteries, once ignited, are extremely difficult to douse.

    After an out-of-control Tesla Model S plowed into a stand of palm trees on a highway median outside Fort Lauderdale last month, police rushed to put out the ensuing blaze using a department-issued fire extinguisher. It was a wasted effort. The car kept on burning after the crash, which killed the driver.

    The police may not have known lithium-ion batteries inside electric vehicles, once ignited, can’t be put out with chemicals from a conventional extinguisher. The battery fires are susceptible to a self-destructive chain reaction known as thermal runaway, causing a feedback loop of rising temperatures. The Tesla fire stumped a series of first responders in Florida. Firefighters eventually doused the flames with water, which seemed to work, but the wrecked car reignited twice more after being towed away. That prompted what a police report later termed “extraordinary measures,” including a call to Broward County’s hazmat unit for advice on stamping out the fire once and for all.

    The accident illustrates the challenges faced by first responders unfamiliar with the special characteristics—and hazards—of electric vehicles’ powertrains. Safety experts say the only way to extinguish a lithium-ion battery inside a car is with thousands of gallons of water, much more than what it takes to stop a fire in a typical gasoline engine. The other option is to just let it burn itself out. “It’s such a difficult fire because it takes so much water to put out,” said Robert Taylor, fire marshal in Davie, Fla., where the crash occurred.

  17. Oh, the unintended consequences that will follow. Consider the impact on rural Australia and its impact on metropolitan Australia:

    – Ambulance, Police, SES, Fire etc

    – Transport, Farming, Tourism, Towing etc

    – Manufacturing, support, infrastructure etc

    – And so much more

  18. Entropy

    To enable this glorious future:
    *legislation imposing the EV car for new car sales;
    *legislation to increase the cost of ICE vehicles; this cost will progressively rise;
    *legislation to impose additional costs on second hand ICE vehicles to fund EV subsidies. This cost will progressively rise;
    *legislation to increase the cost of oil based fuels to fund EV subsidies;
    *legislation to subsidise the cost of EV vehicles;
    *legislation to subsidise the cost of high power home installations;
    *legislation to fund, subsidise and establish charging stations in car parks and roadsides;
    *legislation to require councils to establish charging stations accessible from every roadside car parking spot, to be covered by general rates;
    *legislation for all new buildings and car parking facilities to include charging stations (this will be followed by phasing in the same to existing buildings. The legislation will include subsidies for these too);
    *legislation to impose costs on ICE fuel bowsers to further subsidise charging stations;
    *legislation to increase registration costs for ICE vehicles, and reduce registration costs for EV vehicles.

    The point is that cost of EV drivers driving will be borne by everyone else.
    What Would Shakespeare Say?
    Ah, yes, let’s kill all the lawyers.

  19. No one will want an electric car until they have the same or better:

    Performance
    Range
    Towing
    Versatility
    Looks
    Price
    Recharge time/fuel cost
    Maintenance cost
    Safety

    It is possible in the future with devices such as “glass” batteries and quick transformers/rectifiers “four way bridge rectifiers” (at very high voltage and current) and cheap and reliable electricity, but to force the technology into general adoption before it is really past the development stage makes everyone worse off, save for the subsidy rent seekers.

  20. Speedbox

    Entropy
    #2976623, posted on April 1, 2019 at 2:12 pm

    No doubt, none at all. The issue of EV’s has been discussed many times on the Cat and I have made the following comments:
    There are a whole range of issues (social, economic, supply, range anxiety, taxation, recharge, battery disposal etc) associated with electric cars but it doesn’t matter whether you agree with the concept of electric vehicles or not; it doesn’t matter about any logical warnings or concerns you may offer; it doesn’t matter how ‘invested’ you may be with the ICE or resistant to EV change.

    The fundamental decision to adopt EV (allowing transition via HEV if required) by global entities, specifically the UN, the EU and other individual (non EU) national governments have already been made. The Governments of the world are on-board with this transition to EV’s. Whether you like it or not.

  21. Bruce of Newcastle

    Eliminate tariffs, stamp duty and GST on new electric car sales to make them more affordable, plus three years of free car registration

    Since a typical EV of the same performance and endurance costs tens of thousands more than an equivalent petrol car I am sure zillions of people will jump at the chance of this offer of some hundreds of dollars of bureaucratic savings. Hey maybe the Greens could offer the same savings for all cars? It’s a thought.

    I was musing about such things after encountering a Tesla X in my local Coles carpark on Saturday. To “fill up” a 100 kWh battery it would cost me about $30 at current marginal c/kWh tariff, and that would give roughly 400 km of range. My ICE car would need about 30 L of petrol for the same range at cost of about $39 this week (and Ncl prices are usually a lot higher than Sydney petrol prices).

    So for a cost of what, about $50,000 more, I could get an EV which saves me just over 2c per km in energy cost. Apples to apples comparison. The Tesla X that I saw in Coles carpark would buy about 8 of my type of car if new, and I got it second hand.

    And very soon the NSW retail electricity price will be such that there will be no saving at all to run an EV compared to petrol.

  22. notafan

    we already have elective vehicles

    trains and trams

    isn’t that enough?

  23. stevem

    Frank, whilst all those features you mentioned are undoubtedly inferior to ICE cars, you forgot the undisputed benefit an electric car offers today. That immense sense of self righteous moral superiority to be gained when being seen to own an electric car.

  24. Staal

    OldOzzie, Australia don’t do dams anymore, remember?

  25. OldOzzie

    Speedbox
    #2976631, posted on April 1, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    Entropy
    #2976623, posted on April 1, 2019 at 2:12 pm

    No doubt, none at all. The issue of EV’s has been discussed many times on the Cat and I have made the following comments:
    There are a whole range of issues (social, economic, supply, range anxiety, taxation, recharge, battery disposal etc)

    Let me take my simple mobile phone as an example pf battery power

    originally could get a full days use out of Samsung Phone Battery – now pushing to get 2 hours use

    Back-up – 18000 mah Power Bank that originally could re-charge Samsung for 2 to 2 1/2 days – now pushing to power 4-5 hours

    iMac Magic Mouse chews through batteries often – all thrown into garbage heap

    and what will be the run-down/discharge on Electric Car Batteries with consequent reduction in range and increase in anxiety – even Daniel Ricciardo did not want to touch his F1 Car in Bahrain to put his steering wheel back on as he did not want to get electrocuted

    “Dnn’t worry we will just let you burn when your car crashes”

  26. Nate

    How do you build the batteries when you’ve banned mining for rare earth metals?

  27. Squirrel

    Shorten’s tap-dancing earlier today on a road user charge to replace the petrol excise which won’t be collected from electric car users was entertaining – and entirely predictable.

    The Lefty virtue-signallers who are outraged about threats to encryption of their online activities will, of course, be completely relaxed about road user charging technology which will, in effect, monitor in detail all of their road use activities….

  28. Singleton Engineer

    This thread has been a great laugh.

    I expect many repetitions, as this particular beast turns on the spit.

    Speaking of fires… the standard fire truck carries 2 or 3,000 usable litres of water.

    15,000 litres represents 5 to 7 Heavy Tankers, perhaps backed up by a 10,000 litre water tanker.

    I hope never to be involved with such a fire, despite 30+ years active membership of a large rural NSW fire brigade.

  29. Richard Bender

    At Eastern Creek raceway, volunteer marshals are shown how to safely extinguish a petrol or oil based fire in a race car. If the car on fire is a Tesla – say, competing in a time trial – the training is to call 000, ask for the fire brigade and go home early as there will be no further racing that day.

  30. Titch

    I can’t imagine what will happen to the fresh fruit and vegetables carted daily in trucks across the Nullabor and from Adelaide region, into Sydney to the markets. Just where on the Hay Plains would you have trucks lined up for hours recharging so they can get as far as the Hume Highway and into Sydney? By which time, unless they are refrigerated trailers (powered by diesel), the food will be well and truly on the wane as far as quality and freshness is concerned. What will the luvvies make of that? Their kale will be ruined, oh despair! As for sending it by air, what amount of carbon pollution would that require, let alone the increased cost of the food being delivered to Sydney or Melbourne.

  31. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    That works out to around 11 tonnes. Quite how this fits with Labor’s aim for 50 per cent of all new car sales by 2030 to be electric is unclear. Miniature Warragamba dams at all city intersections, perhaps.

    The proles can roast.

  32. RobK

    BoN,
     My ICE car would need about 30 L of petrol for the same range at cost of about $39 this week *
    *includes 38c per litre duties.

  33. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    crazy russians test lithium batteries. tesla has 7000 of them

  34. Tel

    There is no way I would by an electric car. None of it even comes close to adding up … with or without subsidies.

    I would, however consider an electric scooter, although there are still some problems in that department as well. You can get scooters with ~1kW electric motors in them that can achieve upwards of 80kph and even have offroad tyres with independent suspension. You would want to be on nice flat ground do be doing 80kph offroad, but I’m guessing they always measure their top speed under reasonably favourable conditions.

    Problem is these machines are sitting around the $5k mark which is just a touch too high for me right now, and also they are pretty much banned from everywhere which kind of defeats the purpose.

  35. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    lithium battery in water

  36. RobK

    Tel,
    I know someone who rides one of these 9km to work in cbd and back 9km when it suites.
    https://onewheel.com/products/xr
    Younger and fitter than me, I’ll add.

  37. Dr Fred Lenin

    We will abolish tobacco smoking ,foregoing the millions we get in excise yearly.
    We will attack alcohol abuse by curtailing consumption ,foregoing the excise it raises .
    We will abolish petrol and diesel vehicles ,foregoing y-the millions of dollars excise we get .
    We will increase public spending in health and education and government services .
    We will increase the number of welfare reliant Mid East and african migrants .
    We will force increased wages ti[o increase our tax take .
    We in the gangrene /laboral coalition have your interests at heart with our common sense proposals .

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