Government to be subsidising Porsches

Here I was thinking that I has bought my last car and wouldn’t be in the market for another car. But no. Bill Shorten is promising to subsidise Australians into luxury cars.

“How long does it take to charge it up?” Jackie O asked the alternative prime minister in an interview on the Kyle and Jackie O radio show this morning.

“Oh, it can take, umm … it depends on what your original charge is, but it can take, err, 8 to 10 minutes depend on your charge, it can take longer … ” Mr Shorten replied unconvincingly.

“Is that all?” Jackie O pressed.

“Well it depends how flat your battery is,” Mr Shorten said. You can listen to the audio here.

To be fair – it does depend on how flat your battery is – on that logic you can fill up your petrol tank on $10. It just depends on how empty your tank is.

Today Anthony Albanese is out and about defending Shorten.

I don’t know what he said but he is quite right.

Err no. This is what he said:

Mr Albanese, the opposition infrastructure spokesman, said this morning that newer EVs could in fact be charged within ten minutes, according to new technology in Europe.

“The truth is the Electric Vehicles Council will tell you the latest technology provides for charging that can take 10 minutes,” he told Sky News.

“That’s absolutely what the technology is delivering in places like Europe.”

But Mr Albanese conceded it would take much longer to charge older, and cheaper, electric cars.

No. Not “Europe”. Just Germany.

This is an important arguing point.  So I went and had a look at what could be done:

Reducing charge times is a key factor for widespread EV adoption, and BMW and Mercedes just took a new step in that direction. A Porsche EV prototype charged at a record 400 kW rate, gaining 100 km of range in just three minutes, while BMW brought its research i3 vehicle from a 10 to 80 percent charge in 15 minutes. Both companies were testing out a new 450 kW charger recently inaugurated in Jettingen-Scheppach, Bavaria as part of part of their “FastCharge” consortium.

The new EV Porsche coming is at a mere US$85,000 – before government subsidy – will be on our roads soon.

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78 Responses to Government to be subsidising Porsches

  1. Karabar

    Consider that rate to be about 2,000 amperes at 220 VAC.
    Consider that a GPO in Australia is fused at 10 amperes.
    Consider that the service to a typical Australian residence is 60 to 100 amperes.

  2. BorisG

    Well I guess the technology is developing rapidly and maybe in a decade the charge time will come down to 10 minutes for family sedans.

    I have a colleague in China who has an electric car and very happy with it. In Beijing this is apparently cheaper to buy and run than a petrol vehicle.

    I am not a fan of subsidies though,

  3. RobK

    It’s a bit windy in SA and Vic and demand is low, so the spot price of electricity is $10 and $13/MWh respectively.

  4. Forget the price of the cars, what will be the cost of these 400kW chargers? What infrastructure would be required to support such chargers? What are the safety factors involved? Would these be available for residential use and at what cost (for a family with more than one car for example)?

  5. Mater

    Consider that the service to a typical Australian residence is 60 to 100 amperes.

    32 amps in newer estates.

  6. Gerard

    Under Turnbull the government had an identical policy. The PM should tell us that this is no longer the case. Under the policy, emission standard for cars would be ratcheted down to 105g CO2 per Km as is the case in Europe and California. This would force people out of their current useful cars and give them a choice of either a tiny petrol driven or an electric car. The way this standard is to be implemented is to require importers to reach that 105g average. This means they can still sell cars with higher emission levels provided they sell plenty at the lower levels. Watch the price of useful cars go up! Other people will hang on to older cars (not good for road safety) but will be hit by the second tranche – a hike in the petrol excise. Eventually the control freaks will get their way.

  7. LGS

    “Well it depends how flat your battery is,” Mr Shorten said. You can listen to the audio here.

    To be fair – it does depend on how flat your battery is – on that logic you can fill up your petrol tank on $10. It just depends on how empty your tank is.

    Shorten is shamefully employing an old sales con trick.
    It’s akin to a store advertising, say: “up to 50% off everything”, when only one (or a few) particular items are 50% off, but everything else is considerably less discounted.
    I wouldn’t trust Shorten for one minute.

  8. Steve trickler

    400 /450 kw!

    A good journo will look at the land area and solar panels needed ( it is fucking ridiculous ) …. just to service one electric car. Same with wind power.

  9. Pedro the Ignorant

    Hell will freeze over before there is a dedicated electric car charger facility in places like Meekatharra, Longreach, Cobar or Echuca.

    South Australia won’t need them because they can’t produce enough electricity to run a toaster, much less charge up an electric car.

    Anybody who believes Bull Shitten’s spiel is a deluded fool.

  10. stackja

    People who vote for the ALP will get what they deserve. All of Australia doesn’t deserve such treatment. One day maybe more people will realise that the ALP is never the solution but the problem.

  11. Shy Ted

    So you’ll be stuck at home with mum and dad with a PhD and massive HECS debt, no job prospects, not having sex, gaming or twittering but you’ll have a Porsche in the garage that you can’t afford to charge and blaming Tony Abbott for your woes. Sweet.

  12. Rafe Champion

    Keep you eye on China where they have slashed subsidies for electric cars.

    But the Government is already slashing EV subsides and plans to withdraw them entirely by 2020 – but it will retain the EV quotas, currently at 12 percent of a company’s sales mix and rising every year.

  13. RobK

    From the BMW link in post:

    In order to meet the demands of fast charging at high capacity, cooled HPC (High Power Charging) cables made by Phoenix Contact are used, which are fully CCS-compatible. The cooling fluid is an environment-friendly mixture of water and glycol, allowing the cooling circuit to be half-open. This makes maintenance comparatively straightforward as compared to hermetically sealed systems that use oil, e.g. in terms of refilling the cooling fluid.

    One challenge was ensuring that the cooling hoses in the charging line were not squeezed when connected to the charging station, as would happen with a conventional cable gland. In the present instance this would impair the cooling flow and therefore cooling efficiency. This problem was solved by Phoenix Contact by means of a specially developed wall duct with defined interfaces for power transmission, communication and cooling as well as integrated tension relief.

    Depending on the model, the new ultra-fast charging station can be used for vehicles fitted with both 400 V and 800 V battery systems. Its charging capacity automatically adapts to the maximum permitted charging capacity on the vehicle side. The time saved as a result of the increased charging capacities is demonstrated in the example of the BMW i3 research vehicle. A single 10-80 % SOC charging operation now only takes 15 minutes for the high-voltage battery, which has a net capacity of 57 kWh. This can be achieved on the vehicle side by means of a specially developed high-voltage battery combined with an intelligent charging strategy. The latter includes precise preconditioning of the storage temperature at the start of charging, temperature management during the charging operation itself and a perfectly coordinated charging capacity profile over time. The charging operation is carried out via a novel multi-voltage network on the vehicle side using a high-voltage DC/DC (HV-DC/DC) converter, transforming the required 800 V input voltage of the charging station to the lower 400 V system voltage of the BMW i3 research vehicle. The HV-DC/DC system also gives the vehicle reverse compatibility, allowing it to be charged at both old and future charging stations. A key factor in ensuring reliable operation is secure communication between the vehicle and the charging station. For this reason, standardisation issues relating to interoperability are also being investigated and submitted to standardisation bodies.

    The Porsche research vehicle with a net battery capacity of approx. 90 kWh achieves a charging capacity of more than 400 kW, thereby allowing charging times of less than three minutes for the first 100 km of range.

    These are water cooled leads and batteries operating at high currents and voltage.
    These are experiments. They show there is a long way to go if fast charging is to be common place.
    Not. Ready. For. Primetime.

  14. Sinclair Davidson

    People who vote for the ALP will get what they deserve.

    I deserve a Porsche. Shorten has promised me a Porsche.

  15. Herodotus

    The mainspring towards making us all get solar panels will be the blackouts. But I’m also thinking of getting an old-fashioned fuel stove with a wetback for hot water, and acres for the veg and a few tasty animals.
    It’s going to be 21st century hippiedom, alternative lifestyles, deja vu all over again.

  16. Herodotus

    Fast charging, unless very well sorted out, could be fast incendiary.

  17. Sinclair Davidson

    Hell will freeze over before there is a dedicated electric car charger facility in places like Meekatharra, Longreach, Cobar or Echuca.

    It is at 356 High Street Echuca. Luckily country towns only need one car.

  18. RobK

    Consider that the service to a typical Australian residence is 60 to 100 amperes.
    Over 100 amps requires CT Metering (current transformers). It means you need a commercial grade switch board with lots of room for torroidal current transformers fitted behind the board for indirect metering. Equipment of this type quickly becomes very expensive .

  19. I can just imagine roadside assistance getting a call, or calls, from customers stuck on a freeway or some country road with a flat battery.

  20. lotocoti

    Luckily country towns only need one car.

    The one in town can handle eight.
    Just not all at once.

  21. RobK

    A couple of nights ago, on the evening ABC (it may have been 7.30 report or the news) they interviewed a progressive who had an EV. In his driveway was a large enclosed genset (with suitable outlet) which was heavier than the car. I suppose that way he can be mobile during a power outage.

  22. Scott Osmond

    We are being led by mental defectives and grifters. Let’s hope for the minor parties to do well enough to gum up the system.

  23. David

    Imagine what fast battery charging will do to the spikiness of the electricity demand. The boys at HO responding to the peaks and troughs in demand must be quaking. Turn up the wind, keep the sun shining, clouds evaporate, more droughts please, way to go.

  24. Pedro the Ignorant

    It is at 356 High Street Echuca. Luckily country towns only need one car.

    – Sinc re car charging points.

    Well, blow me down.

    Last time I drove through Echuca the petrol station was closed.

    Ain’t progress wonderful?

  25. Speedbox

    There are a few commercial chargers dotted around the country. But, if Shorten is seriously (and I don’t believe it) suggesting that 50% of new car sales by 2030 will be EV’s, that is about 500,000 new EV sales per year. By 2030! Bullshit.

    As for the $200m for national commercial charging stations – that will buy, at the very best, about 3,500 commercial hi-speed chargers. Not locations, just chargers. So, assuming 3-4 chargers per location, obviously that means about 1,000 locations NATIONALLY. Not nearly enough. Not even close.

    Home chargers cost about $1,000 but I don’t now whether they can, at present, manage the new loads that may be required for fast charging. More likely that home chargers will remain as ‘trickle feed’ type on the presumption that you plug your car in each evening and it recharges overnight.

    Of course, there are a raft of other issues not least of which……where is the electricity coming from given that we are going to 50% renewables by 2030. Europe has had a 5-10 year head start on Australia in the introduction of EV’s – to play sudden catch up will cost us dearly and will be another colossal clusterf*ck.

  26. RobK

    Last time I drove through Echuca the petrol station was closed.
    There was probably an EV around the back being charged. All you had to do is wait.

  27. C.L.

    Am I missing something?
    The cars are recharged – ultimately – using coal, right?

  28. RobK

    The cars are recharged – ultimately – using coal, right?
    Bill will fix it.

  29. JC

    Am I missing something?
    The cars are recharged – ultimately – using coal, right?

    Correct, however leaving all else aside, it would keep pollution – real air pollution- out of the big cities by cutting car emissions.

  30. JC

    I few days ago, I saw a Tesla with “musk” as the rego plate. You really have to be an imbecile.

  31. RobK

    There was a good point made the other day by a Cat (might have been struth, iirc) regarding special events and tourism. When there is seasonal demand for fuel you just order an extra tanker or two. With EVs you need gensets or heavier grid feed and infrastructure.
    They really haven’t thought this through.

  32. C.L.

    Billexandrio Occasio-Shorten’s pollsters have obviously told him he must go full Gore to hold on to various key Labor seats. As I said last week, we all knew he was insincere. Laughably so. But I am genuinely surprised by his rapid-onset lunacy.

  33. Dr Fred Lenin

    An entrepreneur in 2020 could buy retired racehorses and use them to tow flattened EV s to the Shortenstations .,where they would be recharged in five minutes with wind generated power ,provided by Victorias 134,678 foreign owned power windmills Provided the wind is blowing, but not too hard , we switch them off to avoid damage to the generators when the wind is too hard . Windmill companies are noted for their small donations to the Audubon Society as penance for the millions of birds they chop to bits every year ,public spirited companies still exist.

  34. RobK

    it would keep pollution – real air pollution- out of the big cities by cutting car emissions.
    That’s true. A hundred years ago we used trams for that.

  35. RobK

    Janis Joplin had something to say about this.
    Mercedes Benz https://g.co/kgs/fu3a5Q

  36. Leo G

    How much will Labor subsidise 2 to 5 MVA, 15-minutes-per-day-duty-cycle, home charging stations and associated 33 kilovolt cable-to-the-home connections (a la NBN)?
    It must be their latest back-of-the-envelope national economic stimulus scheme.

  37. RobK

    Now it’s clear where ALP policy originates. In those smoke filled back rooms with the raspy voice in the background:

    Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz? 
    My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends. 
    Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends, 
    So Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?…

  38. JC

    Ummm, Sinc

    The new EV Porsche coming is at a mere US$85,000 – before government subsidy – will be on our roads soon.

    That’s likely to be US dollars. It will likely cost 300k in Australia and not just because of exchange rate considerations.

  39. Dr Fred Lenin

    Mr Shorton ,does this apply to Bugattis ? Love to own one .

  40. RobK

    JC,
    I think the Greens were planning on waiving all excise on EVs.

  41. Bruce of Newcastle

    Some background reading for Bill and Anthony:

    Germany crisis: Carmakers face HUGE fines as EU says they COLLUDED over emissions (6 Apr)

    THE European Union has accused German carmakers, including BMW and VW group of working together to withhold technology which would reduce harmful emissions.

    According to the European Commission, VW group who own Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche, BMW and Daimler, Mercedes parent acted illegally by colluding to delay the introduction of two emission reducing technology. In a preliminary inquiry, the European Commission concluded the German car giants held so-called “circle of five” meetings to manipulate competition in emissions technology. Margrethe Vestager, EU competition commissioner said: “Companies can co-operate in many ways to improve the quality of their products.

    Would you guys buy expensive emissions reducing EVs from this company…?

  42. Siltstone

    “It is always important in matters of high politics to know what you do not know. Those who think that they know, but are mistaken, and act upon their mistakes, are the most dangerous people to have in charge.”
    Margaret Thatcher (foretelling 10 minute recharge comments by lesser persons)

  43. John Brumble

    You (or yuor friend) is full of shit, BorisG. Just came back from Beijing. There are not appreciably more electric vehicles than in any major Australian capital city and not a single corporate car that drove me around was electric. Indeed, I can’t remember more than a single electric vehicle or two in the loong line up of vehicles each day at the hotel, picking up execs to do business in town. These were all new or near new vehicles at the high-end of the car spectrum and all within three ring-roads of the CBD.

  44. Squirrel

    Well what a surprise, the people who the Labor Party was actually established to represent might be waiting quite some time before they can hope to afford an electric car which can be charged about as quickly as it takes to fill a petrol-powered car.

    I note that the “get used to it, because manufacturers are phasing out petrol cars” line seems to relate very much to the plans of British and European manufacturers. It would be interesting to know if the same is true for North American carmakers and, while in that part of the world, what is the take-up of electric cars in non-metropolitan Canada? – if the rural and regional folk of the enchanted kingdom of the Disney Prince are not yet rushing to electric vehicles, that might be the best guide for ‘Straya.

    Anyway, whatever the realities for the “little people”, dreaming up all sorts of new rules, incentives (i.e. punishments) etc. etc. for electric vehicles will create lots of lovely, satisfying and nicely remunerated (by taxpayers) busywork for a small army of shiny bums – and that’s what really matters for modern Labor, isn’t it……?

  45. PB

    There’s Shorten sucking (((Pratt’s))) cock, and no-one notices?

  46. Boambee John

    Squirrel

    Anyway, whatever the realities for the “little people”, dreaming up all sorts of new rules, incentives (i.e. punishments) etc. etc. for electric vehicles will create lots of lovely, satisfying and nicely remunerated (by taxpayers) busywork for a small army of shiny bums – and that’s what really matters for modern Labor, isn’t it……?

    I have said it before, and now saybit again.

    Labor started as the perty of the rural and industrial working class.

    It is now the party of the inner city dwelling, tertiary credentialled (not educated) taxpayer funded bureaucratic and academic middle class. Kim Beasley Snr’s “dregs of the middle class”.

  47. RobK

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-driven-podcast-chief-scientist-alan-finkel-on-battery-evs-and-fuel-cell-evs-52252/

    Australia’s chief scientist Alan Finkel has had a close connection to electric vehicles for more than a decade.

    He was the chief technology officer for Better Place, the ambitious company that imagined swapping battery packs in standard models, but whose ambition was run over by the fall in battery costs.

    Finkel now has two electric vehicles – a Nissan Leaf and a Tesla – and loves them. “It’s so much more exciting” driving an EV, he says. “You feel more connected than in a petrol powered vehicle.”

  48. John Constantine

    What their shorten means is that your ration of weekly road access will be for the amount of kilometers covered by eight to ten minutes of electricity ration charge time.

    Spur of the moment road travel is only for the elite that can use the reserved lane.

    Comrades.

  49. Fred

    There seems to be an assumption that there will be a charger available for every motorist at any given time.

    I bought petrol on Saturday morning. I had to line up and wait for the car in front of me to fill up first. So it probably doubled my filling up time.

    If you have to wait for the car in front of you to charge its battery, that will double your charge time. And if there’s 2 or 3 cars in front of you, that’s triple or quadruple.

    Even if a charge takes as little as 30 minutes, that’s still a 2 hour wait if there’s 3 cars in front of you!

    I am actually looking forward to these Green policies being implemented. It’s going to be funny. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  50. John Constantine

    https://twitter.com/LucyTurnbullGSC/status/1084306058279976960

    This Sydney council wants to block cars so kids can play in the street – what a great idea!

    Their turnbullites love the Hanoi idea of removing cars from the streets so the proles can walk in safety.

    Comrades.

  51. John Constantine

    Gridlock.

    How many electric vehicles running out of charge the morning after a blackout does it take to freeze the entire sydney road network?. fifty, a hundred?.

    A thousand?.

    Comrades?.

  52. Mark M

    Oh Bill, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
    My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
    Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
    So Bill, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?

  53. Doomlord:

    I deserve a Porsche. Shorten has promised me a Porsche.

    You’ll drive your Trabant and love it, peasant.

  54. Oh come on

    Bloody hell. Tech from early-mid 2000s F1 racers is now filtering down to passenger cars today. Who gives a crap what some prototype EV can achieve in the laboratory? It might be relevant in a decade or more. Might be. Some other technology could easily come along and flip the board.

  55. We’re currently out of stock of Sydney Harbour Bridges, but we can supply from stock extension leads long enough for a drive from Sydney to Melbourne while plugged into your own home charging outlet.

  56. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    We’re currently out of stock of Sydney Harbour Bridges, but we can supply from stock extension leads long enough for a drive from Sydney to Melbourne while plugged into your own home charging outlet.

    How do I get on, driving from Kalgoorlie to Ceduna?

  57. Dr Fred Lenin

    I watched a Top Gear show of a guy driving a Tesla from San Francisco to LA ,he had to stop along the way to recharge as he was down to 23 per cent . The charging took one hour ,there were no other cars there ,now as the other Fred said what if the servo was busy and three other cars were in front of you ,four hours to recharge ? Even one car in front means a two hour charge . Like all gangrene plans it is not thought through,they never consider all the things that can happen . With this scenario a lot of the time it would be quicker to ride a bike

  58. Nato

    These newer-generation battery chargers work very well, very quickly. They have been in use at distribution centres that run a nightshift or operate at the top end of an electric forklift’s load capacity.

    Five years ago it was a very bad thing indeed to plug a battery to the charger for a little bump to last to the end of the shift. That destroyed so many power sources, there were drive-through Battery Change Rooms where one or two specially authorised staff would be swapping out and maintaining batteries full time.

    The new battery and charger combos will top up a few hours of heavy use while the operator is taking a tea break. They will fill a full shift of use in under 30 minutes. That’s comparable to swapping out a gas bottle on the traditional counterbalance machines you might have seen working outdoors. That charge-up would have been an overnight wait yesterday.

    According To The Legend the units were developed by a company whose core business is in cruise missiles and this is an interesting little sideshow curiosity to them.

  59. BorisG

    It works very well in Beijing. It requires economy of scale of course.

  60. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    They will mostly be hybrids, which are mainly virtue seeking vehicles. We drove one in Norway (sic’d on us by the hire car company as an ‘upgrade’ – huh?) and we were never sure which mode it was in. It was an OK vehicle, as we weren’t going too far or fast. I heard that the electric component had something to do with the transmission. The whole thing could turn over to petrol as needed. It used less petrol than a normal vehicle would have done for the journey. I would reject it now on fire safety grounds. Hadn’t heard about that at the time. If electric car technology can reach satisfactory standards I don’t see why they shouldn’t be part of the mix in urban areas. With one proviso, Sinc:

    They should live or die in the market, with NO subsidies. Sorry about your Porsche, but a bit of extra consulting should get you a nice petrol model anyway. Best to buy it soon, before Shorten wins.

    If the Libs had any sense they would seize the ‘forced exploding electric car’ meme and win on it.
    Australians love their big petrol driven vehicles. As Sir Humphrey says: the time is not right to change. 🙂

  61. NuThink

    Good News! Mercedes AA Class solves the battery problem.
    https://youtu.be/0k1tbf8muMc

  62. OldOzzie

    let me repeat from Open Forum

    Vote Shorten and Bowen for the end of the world

    Terry McCrann
    Business Columnist
    The Australian


    Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen have made it official and fully public: Labor has a two-stage strategy to destroy Australia.

    No, I do not mean cause conventional left-wing pie-in-the-sky harm — the sort of frenzied chaos, the debt and deficits and “I’ll have what she’s having loyalty” from a younger Bill-on-the-make we got in the Rudd-Swan-Gillard era less than a decade ago.

    Was it really that recent? Don’t expect various assorted titans of the press gallery to remind you.

    Apart from the entrenched, almost universally uniform bias, the gallery has a collective half-memory of about a week. Anything much beyond a month ago is to the average gallery journalist at least Neolithic if not outright Paleolithic.

    Why, no less a distinguished commentator than (their) ABC’s Barrie Cassidy opined on Wednesday there’d never been a budget to “virtually launch an election campaign”.

    Obviously, one couldn’t expect a political expert to remember that the very last federal election was launched in exactly the same way, straight off the 2016 budget — with that budget brought forward a week, like this one has been brought forward a month, to suit the election timing.

    Far less could you expect such an expert to understand how all the disastrous problems this government has staggered through from one to the next flowed precisely from the ineptitude of that budget and the even greater political and campaigning ineptitude of then PM Malcolm Turnbull that delivered the “one seat success”.

    More specifically, that 2016 exercise was crafted by a treasurer ScoMo, who would in time be “rewarded” with his elevation to PM ScoMo.

    Nor do I mean a Labor policy framework that threatens to take Australia to a crazy Gough Whitlam-style future. Or even a Paul Keating-1990 recession reality. Both of which would be recoverable from; as indeed, self-evidently, we actually did both times around.

    No, I really do mean destroy: as in demolish, level, raze, wreck and, most pointedly, end the existence of Australia.

    It’s almost as if our latest “dynamic duo” has chosen to exactly follow the Venezuelan playbook. As if in a bizarre twist on his infamous Gillard comment, Shorten has looked across the Pacific and deliberately committed to have whatever Venezuela has had.

    Stage One

    to be delivered immediately, is designed to destroy the entrepreneurial, investing, business risk-taking, job-creating class — with a $200 billion-plus tax attack on them and them very specifically and deliberately, the biggest in Australian history.

    It is sobering to detail what a Labor-Green government — as it will be, with the Greens in de facto coalition and Richard Di Natale de facto deputy PM — proposes to do from the get-go.

    • End franking credit refunds.

    • All but abolish negative gearing.

    • Double capital gains tax.

    • Increase taxation of trusts.

    • Increase the top personal tax rate to 49 per cent.

    • Not cut the major corporate rate from an increasingly globally uncompetitive 30 per cent.

    It’s entirely likely that I’ve missed something there. But that’s enough to go on with to achieve your ambition, however utterly cluelessly, of crippling the economy as conclusively and as quickly as you can.

    But if there’s any life left among the ruins, Stage Two will then kick in to render the longer-term harm that will make the damage utterly unrepairable. This is “Labor’s Climate Change Action Plan”.

    We’ve spent 20 years with a Liberal Party trying to present as less stupid in relation to so-called climate change than the other party of government, Labor; and all that’s got us — as it surely will at the coming election — is a Labor government trying to present as (slightly) less utterly, as I wrote last week, batshit crazy than the Greens.

    Those crazy Greens, says Labor in effect, will ban all energy-coal exports and close all of our coal-fired power stations by 2030.

    Look how much “saner” we are: we are only going to force you to buy electric cars, which will plug into power-less points (formerly called “power points”) unless the wind is blowing or the sun is shining.

    As AMEO, which has oversight of the energy market, noted last week: “To keep the power system stable in South Australia day-to-day interventions by AEMO (the market operator) have been necessary to keep the power system operating.

    “There were 101 directions for synchronous generators (like gas) to turn on to keep the system stable (in 2017-18) compared with only eight in 2016-17.”

    Translated, the system is teetering almost daily on going all North Korea dark — with South Australia’s dark-green insanity destabilising the grid into southwest NSW and northwest Victoria.

    And this is when fake renewables like wind and solar — separating out the contribution from the only real renewable, hydro — are still only a tiny part of national generation; and South Australia is only a tiny part of the grid.

    And when we still have real coal-fired generators in Victoria, NSW and, critically, Queensland; which would disappear completely if the Greens had their way and under Labor would find it all but impossible to stay in business, in having to accommodate increasing wind and solar when they choose to generate.

    What the old-is-new-again Labor party of Bill Shorten — a man with a figurative cloth cap and a brain to match but a wardrobe full of, if not Zegna, still Super 120s suits and a taste to go with them — proposes is to destroy the two core foundations of not just a modern economy but modernity itself and indeed civilisation.

    The first is the entrepreneurial drive and business risk-taking. The Soviet Union, here we come.

    The second is cheap, reliable and plentiful power. All utterly pointlessly, with CO2 emissions in 2017 increasing by more than Australia’s total; and then doing exactly that again in 2018, according to the International Energy Agency. North Korea here we come.

    Put the two together and you go straight to Caracas Venezuela. I wonder how you say “wiv” in Spanish?

  63. OldOzzie

    NuThink
    #2982150, posted on April 8, 2019 at 8:17 am

    Good News! Mercedes AA Class solves the battery problem.

    That was Fabulous – just 9,648 AA Batteries Power It

    I like Mercedes Response

    We loved the Mercedes-Benz AA spot. It’s worth noting that it comes with a complimentary recharging station.

  64. Fat Tony

    Dr Fred Lenin
    #2982022, posted on April 7, 2019 at 10:47 pm
    With this scenario a lot of the time it would be quicker to ride a bike

    Dr Fred has nailed it. 🙂

  65. John Brumble

    That’s be those economies of scale that rely on millions of people running small (near subsistence) businesses out of the bottom-floor rear windows of their apartments, or recycling work in the middle of the street that runs through their house, all in an environment where the smell of open sewers and rotten food permeates the air every couple of blocks.

    Those economies of scale, BorisG?

    Must be that happy squalor Sniffy keeps going on about.

  66. The Beer Whisperer

    So, assuming all electric vehicles can charge in 15 minutes, and filling up a tank of petrol takes a full 3 minutes, you need to all up all the petrol stations in Australia, multiply it by 5 to keep queues at the same length, then multiply profit margins by 5 to maintain existing margins.

    Then you have to build a network 5 times larger than the existing network.

    And it will run on wind and solar. When the wind blows or the sun shines. All Labor supporters should be sent to live in caves.

  67. The Beer Whisperer

    “add” up all existing petrol stations.

  68. Slim Cognito

    Last night on Waleed Ali’s soapbox show, The Project, they were celebrating a dutch guy who drove an EV all the way from Amsterdam to Australia. No details were given of any problems he encountered.
    A quick google search revealed the following Guardian story from 2 months earlier. Note the headline.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/29/dutch-mans-epic-89000km-drive-proves-electric-cars-are-viable-in-australia

    However, in the story you will see one one occasion he waited 12 hours for better conditions and then drove at 60 km/h to extend his range. He also “ran out” 20km from Coober Pedy and had to get a tow, presumably from a vehicle powered by fossil fuels. Hardly real world conditions.

    Pity they leave it up to viewers to research these important details. Unfortunately too many low info viewers will just eat up what they are told.

  69. PaulW

    Lucy Turnbull doing here best to prove her and Malcolm are Labor voters at heart by trying to find any article that shows 8 minute EV charge

    https://twitter.com/LucyTurnbullGSC/status/1114388365837602817

  70. Ubique

    So, for a Shorten – Albanese – Turnbull fast recharge, merely don the lederhosen and ship your EV to Bavaria. Alternatively, you can plug in at home for a 24-hour long coal-powered recharge.

  71. Bruce of Newcastle

    Then you have to build a network 5 times larger than the existing network.

    Most service stations would be in the cities, since that is where the cars are.
    I have no idea how many service stations there are in Australia, so I’ll pick a number of 25,000. One per thousand people would be about what we’d have in my city, I think.
    Let’s say expanding/building each servo costs $1 million on average.

    Therefore we’d need something like 4 x 25000 x $1m = $100 billion worth of extra service stations.
    If you can recharge in only 15 minutes.

  72. Ubique

    It’s a perfect time for the Libs to link this latest harebrained Labor boondoggle – hatched in a Chinese Restaurant after three bottles of Chardonnay with the project plan written on a paper napkin – with myriad others including the electrocuting Pink Batts scheme, free laptop scheme, Green Loans scheme, the BER, and the free $900 cheques for all (including the dead and tens of thousands living overseas on Australian taxpayer largesse).

    Will Morrison have the wit to do it? Tony Abbott wouldn’t hesitate.

  73. and I notice the sagess of Wentworth has chipped in with her / his 2 bobs worth and promoting some miraculous charger that will recharge a vehicle in a shorter time. the only trouble is she didn’t mention the cost, and looking at the size of it, its almost a big as a pole mounted transformer.

  74. Tom Atkinson

    But batteries don’t like to be fast charged. Doing so dramatically shortens their lives.

  75. John A

    Sinclair Davidson #2981686, posted on April 7, 2019, at 3:14 pm

    People who vote for the ALP will get what they deserve.

    I deserve a Porsche. Shorten has promised me a Porsche.

    You pay for it now and come back in ten years to collect your car.

    Morning or afternoon?

  76. Up The Workers!

    Bull Shitten doesn’t know what Bull Shitten said, but whatever he said, he agrees with it (for the moment).

    If Bull Shitten’s “8-minute-charge” Porsche requires 450,000 watts and 2,000 amps going pulsing your domestic electricity meter, it might be cheaper to just buy a new house every day – in fact you might have to, as it would very likely burn down your house and all the poles and wires between the power station and the dwelling.

    Good “finkin” there, ‘Electricity Bill’. First you sabotage the world’s cheapest, most secure power grid; then you kill off the Australian car industry; then you force us on to unaffordable, unreliable, solar power (for those occasions when the sun actually shines) and windbag power (more to do with a politicians’ bloviation, than that of the weather), and then you mandate a wattage and amperage almost guaranteed to burn the house down – IF our Third World generating capacity in this country could ever produce an output sufficient for those requirements.

    “Finkin” sure isn’t the A.L.P.’s strong point, which is why they have a cracked team of ‘geniuses’ like Sarah Halfwit-Bung and Richard the III of the Brown Movement, on call 24-hours per day, to do it all for them.

    Which only goes to prove once again, that “finkin” sure isn’t the A.L.P.’s strong point!

  77. The Beer Whisperer

    Therefore we’d need something like 4 x 25000 x $1m = $100 billion worth of extra service stations.
    If you can recharge in only 15 minutes.

    Ubique

    And that’s only scratching the iceberg.

  78. The Beer Whisperer

    AND…

    That took all of 20 seconds. I do projects for a living. And for ~$million projects we routinely find more costs. You can double all initial estimates and correctly assume that you’re creating an unrealistic budhry

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