Those dang electricity-using electric cars!

Welcome to the brave new world of electric cars and grid failure, Jo Nova’s heads up on Robert Gottliebsen’s story in The Australian today. Gottliebsen reports:

Bill Shorten’s plan to substantially increase the electrification of motor vehicles has suddenly brought into focus the looming grid crisis in our two major cities, Melbourne and Sydney.

It’s a crisis that has been concealed from the vast majority of the population and is unknown to most of the politicians.

The danger really came home to me when I met up with an affluent, long-time Melbourne acquaintance who lives in a street where there are six Tesla cars.

When they all try to charge their batteries at the same time, the power goes out in the street because the grid fails. Sometimes it fails when only three or four of them try to charge at the same time.

As we have said before, the problem with electric cars is that they use electricity!

The New Zealand warning, from bemused in comments. And the warning from South Australia. Someone tell us the cost of the interventions and the grid upgrades required to meet the new standards.

This entry was posted in Global warming and climate change policy, Rafe. Bookmark the permalink.

44 Responses to Those dang electricity-using electric cars!

  1. Robbo

    Has anybody thought about telling that idiot Shorten that his electricity powered car thing policy is actually unworkable?

  2. Mark M

    The CSIRO has run the experiment.

    Where is the tax-payer funded scientific paper showing the amount of climate, extreme or less extreme, that has been prevented by using these electric vehicles?

    https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2016/CSIRO-goes-electric-with-green-fleet

  3. Fred

    Perhaps I’m showing my age, but I remember the days when the left wanted to get people out of their cars and into public transport.

  4. Percy Popinjay

    Has anybody thought about telling that idiot Shorten that his electricity powered car thing policy is actually unworkable?

    What’s the point? Scum like Teats Peanuthead don’t exist in the same world we do.

    the problem with electric cars is that they use electricity

    Hence the real plan – that no one will be able to use them (except a “select” few, of course). The intent is to deny people access to ICE vehicles, by taxing and/or legislating them out of existence and removing our fundamental right to travel about as we please.

    But hey, you’ll always have your existence pod to kick back in.

    Comrades.

  5. lotocoti

    This will cease to be a problem when smart meters are integrated into the National Social Credit System.

  6. Up The Workers!

    Lack of electricity ?

    No worries!

    Just buy an Eveready battery from Mr. Musk for several squillion dollars.

    It worked for Jay Weatherdill (aka “The Other Mr. Wong”), and he was powering South Australia, so a couple of Bull Shitten “Noddy Cars” should be OK.

  7. EJ.

    So the power goes off in the street…what happens next? Is there a call to deliver a special generator to cope with the load just for that street? Do others who live in the street get compensation for the power outages? What happens to sustain energy supply for all? So many scenarios and questions but no solid answers.

  8. Up The Workers!

    Has anybody thought of telling Shorten’s parents that their idiot son is unworkable?

  9. Dr Faustus

    Has anybody thought about telling that idiot Shorten that his electricity powered car thing policy is actually unworkable?

    It’s in a long list of bizarre, unworkable policies.
    Check out the ALP National Hydrogen Plan (a bargain at $1.14 billion).

    Apparently our renewable energy electrolysis export future is based in Gladstone because:

    Due to existing LNG infrastructure and a proof of concept Hydrogen Plant, Gladstone has enormous potential as an export hub for hydrogen.

    Note to Idiot Shorten: Liquid hydrogen is not even nearly the same thing as liquid methane. None of the Gladstone LNG infrastructure has been designed for the ultra-low temperatures needed to liquify, store, and export hydrogen.

    These knobs are going to be given the keys on May 18.

  10. bollux

    Could Bill convert the NBN to distribute electricity? It will have to be used for something after 5G. Quick, pass me that beer coaster.

  11. OldOzzie

    Comment on the Jo Nova Blog above sums it all up

    James Poulos
    April 10, 2019 at 5:00 pm
    · Reply

    Wind turbines, solar panels, inverters, interconnectors, Tesla batteries, Faraday Grids…

    Once upon a time it was just coal fired power stations and poles and wires.

    And it all worked efficiently and economically.

    In the 60′s the Americans spent millions of dollars developing a pen that could write in outer space.

    The Russians used a pencil.

  12. Rebel with cause

    The grid is only failing because of rapacious capitalism. Labor will mandate energy companies to keep the lights on and problem solved.

  13. Speedbox

    This will cease to be a problem when smart meters are integrated into the National Social Credit System.

    Don’t joke.

    /sarc

  14. Bear Necessities

    As long as the important pigs get supply then everything will is OK.

  15. Allen

    The Government of the day did not kill the horses to assist Henry Ford

  16. Bruce of Newcastle

    Speaking of grid failure, Caracas is blacked out yet again today.

    Large parts of Venezuela hit by new blackout (AFP, via Drudge)

    A new blackout across large parts of crisis-hit Venezuela, including the capital Caracas, forced many to spend another night in the dark on Tuesday.

    The electricity shortage — the biggest in a week — hit a large section of the capital, with social media posts from residents across the country suggesting significant areas in at least 20 of the 23 states of Venezuela were also affected.

    Maybe if Maduro invites Bill Shorten over Bill can tell him how to stop the blackouts by using millions of EVs as mobile batteries. Studies tell us so!

  17. Nob

    Fred
    #2984657, posted on April 11, 2019 at 8:25 am
    Perhaps I’m showing my age, but I remember the days when the left wanted to get people out of their cars and into public transport.

    Remembering is a Reactionary impulse.

    First they’ll get everyone in electric cars.

    Then you’ll be required to forget that and go straight to the New Policy of “Get people out of their cars and into public transport”

    We have always been at war with The Road Lobby.

  18. Nob

    Comrades. (© J. Constantine)

  19. Dr Fred Lenin

    Maybe the socialists wl]ill find an electricity tree ,you know like the money tree they always think they have when in government. Sort of elecric magic puddin?

  20. Speedbox

    Yesterday, somebody made a longish post about the Faraday Grid. I remember reading it but can’t find it now. Anybody remember where it is?

  21. vlad

    Electric cars would be an instrument of control and the end of the Australian way of life.

  22. Ceres

    This practical street example of the madness of electric cars and the grid meltdowns that eventuate, should be all over the MSM. Every dumb reporter and voter can identify with this.

  23. Dr Fred Lenin

    Up the workers , weatherill “the other mr wong “love it mate , what a tosser he is ni wonder wong went queer. I have proposed a new coal fired power station in Port Augusta five times bigger than the one he blew up and naming it “the weatherill/ wong memorial pollutant power station “.

  24. Note the interesting fact that every time there is any sort of catastrophe or emergency situation, especially in a remote area, generators are brought in to provide electricity (and just to provide power to SA and Tas). What are they going to do when there are no more petrol/diesel engines available in Australia, or petrol/diesel to power for what still might be lurking around?

  25. Kneel

    “What are they going to do when there are no more petrol/diesel engines available…”

    Give you a stationary bike with genny attached.
    Want to run your fridge overnight? Better pedal a bit more and charge that battery! Of course, you will have to ensure you are pedaling hard so as to cover the electricity usage of your TV/Tablet/Phone that is distracting you from the fact that YOU are now the “renewable resource”. And you’ll need a LOT more (vegan, of course) food, so you are contributing to the economy in multiple ways. What could go wrong?

  26. Dr Faustus;

    These knobs are going to be given the keys on May 18.

    Don’t be too sure about that.
    Labor and the Bill are so sure of themselves they will romp it in, that they’ve been kicking own goals for over two months.
    Australian Federal Election
    Next Election – Sworn in Government
    Coalition @ $4.25
    $1000.00
    Pending

    Australian Federal Election
    Next Election – Sworn in Government
    Coalition @ $5.50
    $1111.11
    That will be a nice little payout.

  27. Beachcomber

    Wil at 8:12 am

    Who pays the power bill?

    Exactly! This is never mentioned in the public discussion. Australia’s fascist left establishment have enforced upon us the most expensive and inefficient electricity supply in the world. Even if somehow the grid doesn’t collapse, how many people will be able pay their electricity bill when they have to charge up their glorified electric golf buggy every night.

    BTW, no excursions in the electric dream buggy in the evenings; it will be on the charger.

  28. Mark A

    Beachcomber
    #2984925, posted on April 11, 2019 at 12:34 pm

    Wil at 8:12 am

    Who pays the power bill?

    In all fairness, you won’t have to pay for petrol. On the other hand you may have to maintain two cars with the appropriate additional costs.

    So, there is that.

    I like electric cars, but not in today’s scenario.

    The whole thing of pushing them (and you might physically have to) onto the public is wrong, built on wrong assumptions.

    Even ignoring the CO2 scare, destroying the electricity grid and cheap power stations, living with the ever present possibility of blackouts and driving up electricity prices is not the time for introducing mass usage of electric cars.

  29. Rohan

    Speaking of the viability of electric cars, this clown took 1119 days to travel 33 countries and 95,000 km. Or a massive 85 km/day. At that rate, if you want to drive from Melbourne to Sydney, then its going to take you around 11 days.

    So viable.

    He called his car the “Blue Bandit” which is apt, as he never paid for one meal or joule of electricity. It was all donated for free.

  30. Beachcomber

    Electric dream buggies waste energy. At least 97% of the electricity comes from evil coal-fired power stations. The energy is converted from coal to electricity and then from electricity to the motion of the vehicle. A large proportion of the energy is lost as heat etc. each time it is converted from one form to another. It is far more efficient to convert the energy in petrol and diesel fuels directly to the motion in an internal combustion engine.

    It’s high school level chemistry and physics but it probably isn’t taught anymore since it is ideologically unsound.

  31. Mark A

    Beachcomber
    #2984945, posted on April 11, 2019 at 1:02 pm

    It is far more efficient to convert the energy in petrol and diesel fuels directly to the motion in an internal combustion engine.

    All that is true but I was referring to the olden days when the powerstations were still spinnig as they had to, but we could get cheap night-rate electricity.

    An ideal situation for charging electric cars.
    I have a suspicion that all this is known to the pollys but ignored for ideological reasons, OR they are really as stupid and dumb as we think they are.

  32. A Lurker

    Time to buy a horse and cart.

  33. Mark A

    A Lurker
    #2984966, posted on April 11, 2019 at 1:28 pm

    Time to buy a horse and cart.

    I hope you jest.
    Buy one and use it for regular transport and see how far you go, legally and environmentally that is.
    The greenies and loonies will stop you before you even started.

  34. Dan Dare

    With regard to burning EVs, I’ve got a few jars of Lucas Replacement Smoke going cheap.

  35. Nob

    What Australia and Europe do is irrelevant.
    The booming populations of Asia, Africa, Latin America don’t give a flying fig.

  36. Ubique

    Yesterday, somebody made a longish post about the Faraday Grid. I remember reading it but can’t find it now. Anybody remember where it is?

    Robert Gottliebsen
    The Australian

    “Bill Shorten’s plan to substantially increase the electrification of motor vehicles has suddenly brought into focus the looming grid crisis in our two major cities, Melbourne and Sydney. It’s a crisis that has been concealed from the vast majority of the population and is unknown to most of the politicians. The danger really came home to me when I met up with an affluent, long-time Melbourne acquaintance who lives in a street where there are six Tesla cars.

    When they all try to charge their batteries at the same time, the power goes out in the street because the grid fails. Sometimes it fails when only three or four of them try to charge at the same time.

    And so, I decided to delve deeper into what is causing this problem, how bad it is, and whether there is a solution. The good news is that in Melbourne, technology was developed to overcome the crisis, but the politicians in the southern capital were simply besotted by green inner city votes and couldn’t be bothered listening. Nor would those in New South Wales. So the technology went to Edinburgh – but more of that later.

    Along with most developed countries, Australia constructed a magnificent power grid, but it was based on centralised power generation that was regular and predictable. It has served the nation incredibly well.

    But then we became concerned at carbon emissions, so we decided to increase the proportion of renewable power generation feeding the grid. We poured this new power into a grid that was simply not designed to cope with new generation sources. Our power grid is designed to transit predictable regular waves of power through its wires and transformers.

    But suddenly we began generating large amounts of power from different directions. And it was power that was intermittent and based on the less predictable sources like wind and sunshine. In many cases, power being generated in our homes and exported to the grid simply could not find its way through.
    The most obvious solution is to install additional wires to give the grid more capacity. But that will have limited impact because when power comes from different directions and is intermittent, instead of being regular waves of electrons, the electrons become very choppy. When these choppy electron flows hit the transformers, they greatly increase the temperature. To my horror I discovered that cities like Melbourne and Sydney are in danger of either experiencing explosions or even a complete collapse of the system.
    A complete collapse would require unforeseen triggers but would leave these giants cities not only without power, but without water, food and transportation. Research shows that after three days of no water, power, food or transportation there is a social break down.

    Such a situation may be triggered this year, next year or maybe not for many years but the danger is ever present.

    If we continue to pump intermittent power into the system and then add more electric cars a complete breakdown is almost a certainty. In some ways Bill Shorten has done us a favour by setting out his plan for greater electrical vehicles.

    It sent me hunting around the world to see whether other countries whose politicians might not have been as stupid as those in Victoria and New South Wales and actually faced up to the fact that they had created a grid problem. And because other countries were honest and admitted that renewables create grid difficulties, they might also have found an answer.

    There may be a number of solutions but the only one I found was the so-called Faraday Grid developed a team of Australians led by Andrew Scobie. I found it incredible that it was developed in Melbourne, which is the city facing our deepest crisis. Andrew and his team found no interest in their inventions in Australia because we didn’t even recognise that we had a problem.

    So, three years ago he and his people went to Edinburgh, where they were able to attract a global team of highly skilled power researchers to add to the work done in Melbourne, and developed the so called Faraday Grid. This new grid system had its origins in the findings of a whole series of early electricity pioneers including Coulomb, Oersted, Ampere, Maxwell and, of course, Faraday.

    In essence the Faraday Grid transforms existing grids by installing systems that stabilise the whole electricity grid pattern and enable the existing wires to handle both intermittent power and power from different sources.

    Suddenly the grid, instead of simply being a one-way traffic system, can handle different power sources coming from different directions. The Faraday installations replace the current transformers which, as it turns out, are now being replaced more frequently because they were never designed for the power pattern that is currently running through them.

    The Faraday Grid installations substantially increase the amount of power the existing wires can handle, and so will enable at least some electrification of cars – possibly enough to satisfy Bill Shorten’s targets. In London they have been researching the Faraday Grid for some years and are satisfied it works, because they’re now rolling it out.

    Similarly, Tokyo is preparing to roll out the technology, along with parts of America and Italy.

    The global power grid is arguably the world’s biggest infrastructure and it is now set to be transformed. Australia, having turned its back on its own technology, must now wait in the global queue. But to even get in the queue our Victorian and New South Wales governments need to look beyond gaining green votes. And we need the new Australian government – from whichever party it comes – to get tough with them. And while we wait in the Faraday Grid queue (or find some other solution) we have to hope the whole system does not bust apart.

  37. Squirrel

    “Bill Shorten’s plan to substantially increase the electrification of motor vehicles has suddenly brought into focus the looming grid crisis in our two major cities, Melbourne and Sydney.”

    Interesting that all that talk about “gold plating” of the grid, which we used to hear from the trolls and spruikers desperate to distract attention from the costs of renewables, has gone quiet…….

  38. Chris M

    My four cylinder turbo uses $10 of petrol for 100km in city driving, around $11 if the fuel price is up.

    Recharging an average electric car here is expensive as we have the highest electricity cost in the world, more than $0.40 per kWh so you are looking at around $8 per 100km range. There is no upper limit to the supply charge for electricity whereas oil is a somewhat global market.

    So given the significant extra purchase cost of the EV and battery longevity concerns / replacement cost it just isn’t viable economically. I actually want them to work, but they don’t. Green electricity prices kill the EV.

  39. Phill

    Surely a car charging system could be designed, with a timer, to do its charging “off peak” just as hot waters services used to do.

  40. Chris M

    1) Off peak is as good as gone as lowest demand is daytime due to PV. I have it, with my provider it is now only slightly lower than peak prices.
    2) The time window is too short to fully charge a car at home unless you have a high current circuit or are topping up.
    3) May not be legal; J tariff was intended for non inductive heating loads but they may allow it for charging. Can’t run a dishwasher on off peak here for example.

  41. rickw

    When they all try to charge their batteries at the same time, the power goes out in the street because the grid fails. Sometimes it fails when only three or four of them try to charge at the same time.

    Peak stupid is almost here.

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