Monday Forum: May 27, 2019

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3,364 Responses to Monday Forum: May 27, 2019

  1. Bruce of Newcastle

    Where the f$ck have you been Bruce?

    Watching Allegro Non Troppo. Which has marvelous animation and classical music…

  2. egg_

    Is Malbo looking forward to a “smooth transition” or is that when they slip in a Ladyboy for a rub-n-tug at True Thai?

  3. Tailgunner

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #3030597, posted on May 31, 2019 at 11:46 am
    Gunner Get in Here!!!
    Roosh has gone hardcore Christian Godsquad!!!
    [email protected]
    New article: I Have Unpublished 11 Of My Books

    I know! And it’s not April Fools day!?
    Plenty of rustled jimmies among the RVF bro’s!

  4. egg_

    It is strange to think back upon that nightmarish time, the Obama era.

    When black actors got Oscars for being black?
    Makes Tropic Thunder look like a documentary.

  5. Old School Conservative

    And you just abetted them, which means you are either credulous or mendacious. Which one is it?

    Oh please, don’t ask him to think. It would break the habit of a lifetime.

  6. notafan

    I don’t know why anyone would assume that people needed an ‘education’ back in the day to be a able to appreciate classical music, not when playing music at home was the norm for many.

    People’s vocabularies are shrinking at a time when more and more people have college degrees. As Zach Goldberg notes, people’s mastery of hard words has been falling for well over 20 years, and their mastery of easier words has been falling for over 15 years. Meanwhile, a higher proportion of Americans have college degrees than in the past, and their average amount of education in years has grown. These trends are illustrated on his graph, “WordSum Scores Overtime, below

    College Students Aren’t Even Learning New Words

  7. Bruce of Newcastle

    My only surprise is that the seagull hasn’t been for a visit no North Korea to come back to regale us with stories of peasants living in squalid cheerfulness as they til the frozen ground with their bare hands.

    Afraid of the pollution?

    WHO: Pollution Killing More People in North Korea than Nearly Any Other Country (30 May)

    North Korea is home to one of the highest death rates in the world from air pollution, as are mainly African and Asian countries, the Chosun Ilbo daily reports, citing a World Health Organization (WHO) estimate unveiled Tuesday.

    An ongoing food crisis fueled by one of the worst drought in decades, rampant diseases, forced labor camps, extrajudicial detentions, arbitrary killings, and a plethora of other human rights violations are already plaguing North Korea, a communist nation known as the most isolated in the world courtesy of dictator Kim Jong-un’s murderous policies.

    As if that is not enough trouble, North Korea saw an outdoor or ambient air pollution-linked death toll of “207.2 people per every 100,000” inhabitants in 2016 alone, the latest data available, the WHO estimated.

    In comparison, the United States had a rate of 17 per 100,000 in 2016.

    So much for Trump destroying da environment. Curious how so many non-socialist cities have such clean air.

  8. Diogenes

    Wasn’t introducing the masses to the classics, the purpose of Fantasia?

    Partially, and sadly because it didn’t actually make any money until it was released on VHS, Disney never made the follow ups that were planned.
    personally I think Warner Bros did it better

  9. Infidel Tiger

    Emerald Robinson ✝️

    Verified account

    @EmeraldRobinson
    16m16 minutes ago
    More Emerald Robinson ✝️ Retweeted Matthew Schmitz
    Libertarians constantly overestimate their own voting numbers. You might even say it’s why they exist. That’s why they mostly live in DC and work in think tanks subsidized by billionaires.

    https://twitter.com/EmeraldRobinson/status/1134292995514277888

    Same graph in Australia. Globalism, open borders economics is not wanted by anyone.

  10. Top Ender

    Developing…

    Four men have been arrested after a bomb was found at a home in northern Victoria.

    Police executed a search warrant at Macpherson Street, West Wodonga, on the Victoria and New South Wales border on Friday morning.

    During the search, an improvise explosive device was found.

    Local police remain at the scene as they await the Bomb Squad, a police spokeswoman said.

    Police said there was no threat to public safety.

    Volunteers have started sandbagging the area.

    A resident in the area told the Herald Sun the home’s occupants had lived there for years but they had little to do with them.

    ‘I see them from time to time, working on their cars,’ they said.

  11. DrBeauGan

    You are clearly one of MY people and should be treated accordingly

    I don’t mind being counted in with you, Stimpy. But I have the problem of an excess of sanity. I admit to doing weird things, but I do them for variety, interest, and seeing things with my own eyes instead of buying the conventional wisdom. Anybody’s conventional wisdom.

  12. Mother Lode

    The Trump obsession returns.

    OCD perhaps? Or a man crush?

    Incessant voices. Fear, hate, and envy.

    He looks at Trump ploughing into the thick of things, dispatching one foe after another with split-melon grin aplomb.

    All the things he see the left has achieved is being knocked over by this brash, energetic, wily – and boastful* (so he knows what he likes about himself) – force of nature.

    I suspect he sees Vietnam as being perhaps where things diverged, that if different choices were made. He is wrong, of course. Small men don’t become great men by being put in great circumstances because they are small from within. Big men in small circumstances go mad.

    *I think people like his boastfulness. It is not done to denigrate others, and he boasts of things that people are glad of. Nietzsche once wrote something along the lines that when a small man boasts it is distasteful, but for a great man it is just honesty.

  13. notafan

    The magician’s apprentice terrified me when I was little, just goes to show a movie needs a plot, preferably a decent one.

  14. Diogenes

    Forgot the obligatory youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9cD4QKaZU

    Mind you what they Wagner is unspeakable

  15. egg_

    Shorten is being lampooned on Seven over his silly, bitter speech.

    Ha, ha.
    Still going with that low energy downward inflection at the end of each sentence where he tells of his defeat at the hands of “dark forces”.
    Taking full responsibility … not.
    Gracious in defeat … not.
    Nein reporting that the Knifeman Cometh (for the third time).
    Less than two weeks in and he is agitating to get himself in the big chair again.

    True Thai vs Threw Pie?

  16. Mother Lode

    Sure Mitchell, it could very well be fake news. However, what a terrific way of dealing with APS staff.

    How do the left put it? Fake but accurate?

  17. Oh please, don’t ask him to think

    Agreed. It’s no time to take up a hobby.

    h/t Bullwinkle

  18. calli

    Homes had gramophones, pianos or pianolas, radios. The idea that classical music was unknown to the hoi poloi pre Fantasia is just wrong.

    Dad was taken to see it as a small child when it first came out. The Night on Bald Mountain scared the tripe out of him. Many years later, we watched it in black and white on our Pye TV – Sunday night Disneyland and I was mesmerised. Fast forward many years and I saw it re-released at the cinema. It had lost none of its charm.

    But I do prefer Bugs and the Barber of Saville. Especially that tiny lawnmower.

  19. bespoke

    Me thinks you protest to much, DrB. 👀

  20. The bullshit –

    *Johno offered actual first hand experiences of opting out from his fellow Diggers and 1735099 turned him down.
    *Numbers Bob had a perfectly legal alternative to being conscripted. He chose not to exercise that option H/T Zulu .
    * 1735099 tried to game the system and lost H/T KD.

    The reality

    Nor did national service straighten out delinquents. This is an insult to the men who served, who represented a physical and intellectual elite of law-abiding young Australians, sifted from the chaff of the ballot by stringent military testing. Another slur is the idea every national serviceman in South Vietnam was a volunteer. I found one specialist soldier whose service record shows he was newly married, politically opposed to the war, threatening to go AWOL and claiming compassionate exemption, and he still found himself in Vung Tau in 1970.
    Everyone seems to draw a false lesson from the Vietnam War. To the Left, it shows you can bring the boys home by marching in the streets. To the Right, it proves protesting against a war only helps the enemy and harms the troops. But our distorted memory does not help us learn either how to fight a war or how to stop a war. All it teaches is how not to write history.

    Catallaxy is a bit like a compost bin.
    You drop scraps and rubbish in, and it grows into myths which develop a life of their own.

  21. But I do prefer Bugs and the Barber of Saville.

    Wagner. Kill the wabbit!

  22. mh

    This is how movie reviews should be. Short.

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/01/07/monday-forum-january-7-2019/comment-page-4/#comment-2902033

    pete m
    #2902033, posted on January 8, 2019 at 11:06 pm
    The kids took me to see Mary Poppins in gold class as our family Xmas present.

    That is 2 hours of my life that nearly made me cry tears of rage at the extreme boredom I had been sucked in to seeing.

    Only reasons consented was the nice setting, food and beverages on order and my kids.

    Disney needs to be sandblasted back to basics and start over again.

    Best wishes to all going thru life’s ups and downs.

  23. johanna

    A couple of cartoon classics:

    The Rabbit of Seville

    and

    Bugs conducts the orchestra, as Leopold Stowkowski (1949)

    Wonderful stuff, and very funny as well.

  24. DrBeauGan

    bespoke
    #3030695, posted on May 31, 2019 at 1:26 pm
    Me thinks you protest to much, DrB.

    Just trying to explain things to the superstitious, bespoke.

  25. pete m

    Thanks for the reminder mh!

    Grew up watching looney tunes and classical music used to great effect.

    Cannot hear vigaro without smiling

  26. Mark A

    I offered to interview each and every digger one on one, and take each though my questionnaire.

    Just who the f..ck you think you are?
    “I offered to interview each and every digger one on one”

  27. bespoke

    *Johno offered actual first hand experiences of opting out from his fellow Diggers and 1735099 turned him down.

    *Numbers Bob had a perfectly legal alternative to being conscripted. He chose not to exercise that option H/T Zulu .

    * 1735099 tried to game the system and lost H/T KD.

    Took the bait again, Sad clown.

  28. calli

    Ahahah! Thanks Diogenes and Joh. Good times.

  29. Top Ender

    Interesting:

    Gone are good old days when pilots were pilots
    By BYRON BAILEY

    Thirty years ago airline pilots would still enthusiastically look forward to their very satisfying and somewhat glamorous lifestyle. Manually flying a large aircraft with hundreds of passengers down an instrument approach in poor weather to a good landing was a very satisfying experience.

    Staying in posh hotels worldwide with attractive cabin crew was an added bonus.

    But all that has gone, along with the esteem that airline pilots once held in the travelling public’s eyes.

    Enter the era of the aircraft glass cockpit with automation and computers removing most of the pilot’s job description. Since human error was held to be responsible in over 90 per cent of accidents it was considered that removing pilot input as much as possible from the whole flight experience would be safer and cheaper. Airline pilots are not very far removed these days from train drivers. Until something goes wrong that is, which is a very rare event.

    Along with the massive expansion of competitive air travel, airline beancounters look to cost savings and many flights have very early starts of flight duty and long haul can fly all through the night.

    Before the September 11 hijack of four airliners in 2001, it was usual for the captain to don jacket and cap and go back and chat with the first class passengers. As well, flight deck visits were welcome. I remember well Miss Universe contestants after the event in Sun City, South Africa, having their photo taken sitting on the captain’s knee in the flight deck of an Airbus going from Johannesburg to Dubai.

    Those days have long gone and now it is the long, lonely, boring saga of being trapped by a locked reinforced flight deck door and watching the computer-controlled autopilot do its stuff. It’s hard to stay alert as well when there is so little activity. Before sunrise near the end of the flight is particularly difficult.

    With beancounters running airlines and crew duty limits allowing rosters to have minimum rest on layovers in hotels after multiple flight sectors, the lifestyle is now somewhat challenging in regards to family, fatigue/jet lag and having weekends.

    Another annoying aspect is the treatment crew get from security. We get treated just like passengers, sometimes with shoes and belts removed to go through the scanners. Once when going through unfriendly security at London Heathrow, I was, as the B777-300 captain with my co-pilot and 18 cabin crew following, subjected to a pat down with arms raised. I asked the security dude “what are you looking for”. He said “anything that could be used as a weapon”. I said I had a crash axe on the bulkhead behind me and I have control of the aircraft.

    This whole security issue is an onerous, out-of-control joke, when they will confiscate your nail clippers as a hijack threat.

    Just another hassle that the overworked and tired airline pilot of today has to endure.

    Byron Bailey is a former RAAF fighter pilot and flew B777s as an airline captain.

    Oz link

  30. Stimpson J. Cat

    Kirikou and the Sorceress
    Azur and Asmar
    The Secret of Kells
    The Song of the Sea
    The Prophet
    The Breadwinner
    Ponyo

    The best animation is not from Disney,
    it’s from overseas.

  31. Stimpson J. Cat

    Vietnam?
    PAH.
    If you want to see a real war, go post on Twitter.
    That’s where the real heroes are.

  32. Stimpson J. Cat

    Honestly, who wants to talk about shooting Asians you have never met, who have never done anything to you?
    We aren’t in China guys, come on now.

  33. notafan

    Airline pilots are not very far removed these days from train drivers.

    Didn’t Bob Hawke call them glorified bus drivers back in the 1980s?

  34. Just who the f..ck you think you are?

    A humble seeker of the truth.
    I’m more than a little out of place here, precisely because of that.
    Not my problem….

  35. twostix

    People’s vocabularies are shrinking at a time when more and more people have college degrees. As Zach Goldberg notes, people’s mastery of hard words has been falling for well over 20 years, and their mastery of easier words has been falling for over 15 years. Meanwhile, a higher proportion of Americans have college degrees than in the past, and their average amount of education in years has grown. These trends are illustrated on his graph, “WordSum Scores Overtime, below

    At work yesterday I received a formal email from a junior who made it through sixteen years of government schooling spelling “which” as “wich”. It read like a retarded half baked Facebook post. I thought I was bad, but this was next level.

    This young guy spent sixteen years in government schooling. He’s struggling badly to help build critical systems because he doesn’t know basic stuff that he should have been taught a million times over in that time. The most important being mental discipline. Yet a university still allowed him to graduate with their name on his bachelor’s degree in Bugmanism.

    The working class are fucked for at least three or four generations. It’s that simple.

  36. twostix

    Hey numbers, when you leftwing education cultists in QLD were “teaching children how to think”, it seems you never got time to teach them how to spell “which”.

    Oops.

  37. thefrollickingmole

    I didnt think it would happen, but good news everyone!

    Deadwood: The Movie review – brutal, beautiful farewell for a TV classic

    They made an ending to wrap up deadwood!

  38. Mother Lode

    People’s vocabularies are shrinking at a time when more and more people have college degrees.

    I put great store in people’s ability of wordmakery.

    And I am not making that word up.

    It has previous usage. At least once.

  39. Mark A

    bespoke
    #3030704, posted on May 31, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    Settled in Mark A?

    Sort of still in the company digs, looking for a house to buy.

  40. Stimpson J. Cat

    People’s vocabularies are shrinking at a time when more and more people have college degrees.

    It has nothing to do with college degrees, and everything to do with reading books.
    You can’t use words you haven’t read.

  41. bespoke

    Mark
    So your really making it permanent. I suppose you do what whats best.

  42. twostix

    The things about QLD I’m astounded at are the class divide, it’s intense compared to NSW, and the tech jobs and companies are dominated by outsiders. I’ve worked in five places and there’s only ever a couple of QLDer locals in them – usually Gen X and older. What I’ve learned is it’s because the average public school educated QLDers resume has spelling like “wich” in it and their cover letters, etc generally read at a much lower level than the average NSW or Vic or even Indian, etc.

    Really, really shameful. Fuck you QLD Dept Education bugmen. I know you do it to the children of the working classes on purpose.

  43. bespoke

    Just trying to explain things to the superstitious, bespoke.

    You haven’t proved there is no God, DrB.

  44. thefrollickingmole

    Useless blubbersack goes bush and discovers shes only good as a fly attractor.

    I was given a chance to be useful – instead I am left with weeping sores all over my body
    Brigid Delaney

    One of the trucks carrying the solar panels can’t get in because the road is not wide enough. People – not me – are dispatched to hack through the growth and widen the road.

    I visit the site although I don’t do any work. It’s hellishly hot, but something about seeing the shed constructed is strangely mesmerising. It changes appearance by the hour.

    I offer to help lay the gravel, whatever that means, but oversleep and miss it. Oh well! Instead I go for a drive with the water panel installers where we can get phone reception.

    Urban bugwoman confirmed!
    When I clamber out of the tent (is there any other way to exit a tent?), I’m covered in lumps and sores. They’re up my arms, on my eyelids and there’s a clump of bites in each knee crease. I itch madly. The flies flock to the sores.

    I must have scratched them in my sleep, as they are swollen, oozing and on my arms there are some sort of insects nesting in the wounds.

    Its funny in a pathetic sort of way.

  45. Indolent

    Can you imagine an Australian PM saying and doing anything remotely like that?
    From either party?

    I weep for my country.

    The big picture

    No wonder they hate Trump.

  46. Airline pilots are not very far removed these days from train drivers.

    Didn’t Bob Hawke call them glorified bus drivers back in the 1980s?

    Hawkie’s comment may have been triggered by the (airline pilot’s) union not giving any money to the ACTU.
    The treatment – post strike – of former airline pilots by the Australian government was abysmal.
    But, hey, Hawkie is a hero, coz beer drinkin’ & larrikinism.

  47. Knuckle Dragger

    You know, if I was going to rebut an argument, I wouldn’t do it at 1.27 pm on a Friday, or use one of the very few dissenting authors in a tsunami of more thoroughly researched material and by those who were there, and whose own first-hand experiences and those of others contradicted my own perception which I deliberately avoided finding balance for.

    Also noted is that the author, much like tbe attempted rebutter is a PhD student, along with several dozen thousand others in this country. Seeing as how this author also studies at ADFA, one can only assume the doctorate’s subject is the societal impact of high heeled footwear in a non-binary combat environment, viewed through a workplace health and safety prism.

  48. Arky

    Either give us a Friday fred or close this wretched blog down.

  49. Lilliana

    @twostix

    I have noticed the same thing.
    My younger colleagues are all tertiary educated but can’t write a coherent sentence to save themselves. Grammar was clearly not on the curriculum. Most have a limited vocabulary and continually use words out of context to the point of sounding like they never finished primary school.
    It’s embarrassing to be associated with such useless gits.
    If this is the calibre of graduates our universities are unleashing on the world then I despair for Australia’s future. Unless we life our game we are well and truly stuffed.

  50. Top Ender

    Mundine trying to become a contender again:

    Anthony Mundine has called on white NRL players to join Aboriginal Blues players in a boycott of the Australian national anthem during State of Origin.

    Aboriginal Blues stars Cody Walker and Josh Addo-Carr have stated they will not be singing the national anthem before the first game between NSW and Queensland at Suncorp Stadium on Wednesday night.

    They believe ‘Advance Australia Fair’ does not represent Indigenous people.

    Mundine, a former NSW player, said the anthem is a racist song and white players should support the boycott because it would greatly help the debate surrounding the injustices against Aboriginal people.

    Link with comments open

  51. Knuckle Dragger

    Jesus, mole.

    A chick so out of her depth she takes a photo of mud on her boots to show off her bush cred.

    And the mats in the ute are now suddenly clean.

    And in a hire ute, deliberately driven by a ‘new bloke’ straight into a coastal saltpan.

    And the hire ute’s fire extinguisher still wrapped in plastic.

    What a debacle.

  52. Arky

    If you don’t read for pleasure you ain’t gunna be no literate person.
    An if you ain’t readin’ fer pleasure as a young ‘un at home then you ain’t never gunna be a reading fer pleasure, therefore yer never gunna be a literate person.

  53. DrBeauGan

    You haven’t proved there is no God, DrB.

    And you haven’t proved that there aren’t fairies at the bottom of your garden, bespoke. But I bet you don’t believe in them.

  54. Arky

    And in a hire ute, deliberately driven by a ‘new bloke’ straight into a coastal saltpan.

    ..
    They were probably trying to leave her there when they bogged.
    Desperate times call for desperate measures.

  55. Arky

    And you haven’t proved that there aren’t fairies at the bottom of your garden,

    ..
    There are.
    Get out of the bottom of my garden, you damn fairies.
    Get out of there, I said.

  56. 132andBush

    Its funny in a pathetic sort of way.

    No, it’s just pathetic.

  57. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    You know, if I was going to rebut an argument, I wouldn’t do it at 1.27 pm on a Friday, or use one of the very few dissenting authors in a tsunami of more thoroughly researched material

    I’ve only ever read one dissenting author, so far.

  58. Roberto

    Lilliana

    I have noticed the same thing.
    My younger colleagues are all tertiary educated but can’t write a coherent sentence to save themselves. Grammar was clearly not on the curriculum. Most have a limited vocabulary and continually use words out of context to the point of sounding like they never finished primary school.
    It’s embarrassing to be associated with such useless gits.
    If this is the calibre of graduates our universities are unleashing on the world then I despair for Australia’s future. Unless we life our game we are well and truly stuffed.

    I’ve been involved with the graduate recruiting at my organisation for a number of years. I’ve instituted a dictation test – similar to those that we used to do in primary school – in order to weed out the illiterates who can’t distinguish between its/it’s or who’s/whose or their/there/they’re or affect/effect and so on…

  59. Top Ender

    Needs subtitling Moley:

    One of the trucks carrying the solar panels can’t get in because the road is not wide enough.

    People – not me – are dispatched to hack through the growth and widen the road. Even my mates realise I’m useless.

    I visit the site although I don’t do any work. Nobody is surprised by that. It’s hellishly hot, but something about seeing the shed constructed is strangely mesmerising. It changes appearance by the hour, while I sit around and do bugger all.

    I offer to help lay the gravel, whatever that means, but oversleep and miss it. As usual, I am incredibly slack and think society will carry me. Oh well! Instead I go for a drive with the water panel installers where we can get phone reception, because playing with my mobile is all I really do in life.

  60. Arky

    besook
    #3030743, posted on May 31, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    ..
    Jealousy is a terrible affliction.

  61. Memoryvault:

    Sorry Winston, but that won’t work. A woman’s “attractiveness” is far more complex than mere good looks. I’m guessing it’s much the same for the ladies. I’ve known some gorgeous women who were real bitches, and others who were fun but as thick as two short planks. I’ve also known woman who were quite plain looking but nonetheless highly attractive because of their personality and intelligence.

    There ya go.
    He could have been a contender.
    Hell. He could have been a Judge.
    But he wipes himself out at the first turn.
    You also lose your deposit, MV.

  62. Mother Lode

    My younger colleagues are all tertiary educated but can’t write a coherent sentence to save themselves.

    Yes, yes.

    But can they critique hierarchical power structures and the preservation of privilege systems through the tacit cooperation of both the privileged and the othered?

  63. DrBeauGan

    bespoke
    #3030743, posted on May 31, 2019 at 2:31 pm
    Only God can explain something as grotesque as this finding love.

    He’s got a really cute daughter, bespoke, so you have a point. I put it down to evolution being desperate to keep the human species going.

  64. twostix

    An if you ain’t readin’ fer pleasure as a young ‘un at home then you ain’t never gunna be a reading fer pleasure, therefore yer never gunna be a literate person.

    Spelling, like times tables, is best taught by rote memorisation in the younger years, which as you know is banned.

    My oldest two are five and six years into a prole school, nobody at that place gives the slightest shit if they can spell or not except us.

    The focus is absolutely and definitely on imparting bugmanism style ideas into them first and foremost, making sure they’re good prolish citizens of the world.

    Naplan is a good thing in that it forces these retarded bugman hives to at least try and teach something related to maths and english. The panic before Naplan is hilarious as they try and cram two years of what normal people would regard as normal teaching (english, maths and general knowledge) into a month or two. Unfair on the kids though.

  65. 132andBush

    Top Ender

    #3030749, posted on May 31, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    Needs subtitling Moley:

    Is she subtly taking the pith here?
    Out of whom or what I can’t tell.
    Obviously too deep and nuanced for a simple farmer.

    I’ll stick with pathetic.

  66. Pedro the Ignorant

    Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    Should have sent her off on foot to get help.

    “Just keep the sun on your left shoulder and keep going until you hit a town. Here’s a Mars Bar and a litre bottle of water for you, sorry no Perrier left”.

  67. notafan

    Isn’t there a logic to believing in a creator God that doesn’t exist for faeries at the bottom of the garden?

    Aristotle had something to say about a first cause, didn’t he?

    and there are others

  68. bespoke

    Parental intervention will be fixed when have to go to school at three.

  69. Johno

    Deadwood movie. Can’t wait.
    I downloaded and watched the entire first series in about three days. Did nothing for my vocabulary.
    I remember going into Woolworths and thinking to myself ” Where the f**k did these c***s hide the f**king milk?” One of the great series.

  70. notafan

    I offer to help lay the gravel, whatever that means, but oversleep and miss it. As usual, I am incredibly slack and think society will carry me. Oh well! Instead I go for a drive with the water panel installers where we can get phone reception, because playing with my mobile is all I really do in life.

    Her next article will be female quotas in parliament and on company boards and the armed forces and stuff.

  71. egg_

    Fantasia has an audiophile quality soundtrack, particularly considering its era.

  72. twostix

    But can they critique hierarchical power structures and the preservation of privilege systems through the tacit cooperation of both the privileged and the othered?

    No they can’t even do that.

    They’re basically retarded.

  73. DrBeauGan

    If you’d believe the ontological argument or the first cause argument, you have a serious problem with the relationship between language and the world, Notafan. Deducing facts about the world from the language we use to talk about it is not a reliable method of getting to Truth.

  74. notafan

    Deadwood was great, though I stopped watching it when I found out it didn’t have an ending, I might watch the rest now.

    I saw that actor that played the publican with an almost heart of gold on John Wick, how dare he get so old.

  75. Knuckle Drugger:

    Can’t find a single thing wrong with DJT’s statement.

    There’s a wedge in there, and Pelosi is going to trip right over it.

  76. notafan

    That wasn’t the point I was making DrBG

    The point I was making that there is no rational reason to believe in fairies, in gardens or anywhere else, but in a creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen, there is.

  77. Arky

    If you’d believe the ontological argument or the first cause argument, you have a serious problem

    ..
    With tense?
    This can be fixed by willing that you would have will that you will have wouldeded.

  78. thefrollickingmole

    Top Ender

    Near perfect translation

    Johnno
    Where the f**k did these c***s hide the f**king milk?”

    My sainted mother and her hubby watched the series and her comment was “Its great, but they do swear a lot”…

    I actually loved seeing the little bit with Calamity and Utter, 2 of my all time favorite characters ever.

  79. rugbyskier

    I’ve been involved with the graduate recruiting at my organisation for a number of years. I’ve instituted a dictation test – similar to those that we used to do in primary school – in order to weed out the illiterates who can’t distinguish between its/it’s or who’s/whose or their/there/they’re or affect/effect and so on…

    I hope you also test for ‘should have/could have/must have’. Nothing demonstrates the failure of education systems to teach basic English grammar than the proliferation of ‘should of/could of’ (sic).

    A few years ago I was doing evening classes in French and the teacher was also teaching French at a local high school. She told me that she had to start teaching English grammar to her students before she started teaching French as they had no understanding of subjects, objects, pronouns, tenses, etc, and giving them lessons in English grammar was essential for them to understand French grammar.

  80. egg_

    Cosmologists are now saying that time existed before the Big Bang.
    Doh!

  81. Roberto

    rugbyskier

    I hope you also test for ‘should have/could have/must have’.

    Yes, should have/should of is also in there.

  82. twostix

    Gen Y’s illiteracy in not their fault and they shouldn’t be punished for it btw.

    It was something that was done to them.

    So they will have to both overcome their illiteracy and hold the classes responsible for it to account by bankrupting and euthanising them in their old age.

  83. Mitch M.

    Belief in the supernatural is still alive and kicking, even among people who don’t believe in a god. Research on atheists and agnostics around the world has revealed that almost nobody can claim to completely reject irrational beliefs such as life after death, astrology, and the existence of a universal life-force.

    Well, there ya go.

    I must be the exception. I don’t buy any of that crap.

    In science the authority embodied in the opinion of thousands is not worth the spark of reason in one man.

    Pietro Redondi, Galileo: Heretic

  84. Arky

    Look, just admit, that like everyone else, you have no idea if there is a god or not, and no possible way to calculate the probability, or even frame the question mathematically, but chose to believe in a random and Godless universe because you don’t want to be held accountable for you shitfull nature.
    Whereas I chose to believe in a universe of reason and God because I want to see you burn, you Godless asshole.
    Peace be upon you.

  85. johanna

    Wow, egg, that sound quality is amazing, even on my crappy computer speakers.

    Looking forward to 6.30 tonight.

    Cats and kittehs with young uns around need to chain them in front of the TV.

  86. Mitch M.

    Good video. The highest scoring jet fighter ace Epstein could see an approaching fighter at 20 miles, most pilots at 8-10 miles. He had excellent energy management. What this video demonstrates is the crucial importance of training and discipline in war. The same happened unequal numbers happened in the massive tank battles on the Golan Heights. Time and again the Israelis proved to be much superior soldiers.

  87. Top Ender

    Too difficult to arrest the people being a damned nuisance at intersections….presumably because they are in fact “victims”…

    The little-known road rule that can get you fined $50 – and even lawyers haven’t heard of it

    Luke Bresland gave a window washer $1.50 from his car window in February
    Shortly after, Mr Bresland was pulled over by police and asked if he paid the man
    A month later, he received a $50 fine in the mail and entered a not guilty plea
    On Friday, the charge was withdrawn following agreement it was ‘heavy handed’

    Link

  88. dover_beach

    I don’t believe in the after life. Used by to many to control others.

    That is a terrible reason for disbelieving in life after death.

  89. dover_beach

    If you’d believe the ontological argument or the first cause argument, you have a serious problem with the relationship between language and the world, Notafan. Deducing facts about the world from the language we use to talk about it is not a reliable method of getting to Truth.

    It’s not clear at all how the cosmological argument, for instance, has anything to so with ‘deducing facts about the world from language’.

  90. twostix

    Perfect.

    I click on one ABC article to a smoking article now I’m getting Quit(TM) smoking ads on Youtube all day.

    What a painful age.

  91. Mitch M.

    Persistent metabolic youth in the aging female brain

    …Prolongation of metabolic youth in the female brain also parallels increased female longevity in humans, though mechanisms underlying the latter are similarly not well understood …

    While many believe males die younger because they don’t pay as much attention to their health this study points to a more intrinsic reason. It is interesting because of earlier research arguing that longevity is directly related to cerebral health which makes sense because the brain is the final common pathway in regulating metabolism.

    What is intriguing in this study is that the effect holds independently of amyloid deposition. Big Pharma has spent billions trying to cure Alzheimer’s by removing amyloid. Wrong target.

  92. twostix

    Dover do you still check your old email address?

  93. “Lilliana
    #3030735, posted on May 31, 2019 at 2:20 pm
    @twostix

    I have noticed the same thing.
    My younger colleagues are all tertiary educated but can’t write a coherent sentence to save themselves. Grammar was clearly not on the curriculum. Most have a limited vocabulary and continually use words out of context to the point of sounding like they never finished primary school.
    It’s embarrassing to be associated with such useless gits.
    If this is the calibre of graduates our universities are unleashing on the world then I despair for Australia’s future. Unless we life our game we are well and truly stuffed.”

    What they learn at school and university now is activism. Grammar, sentence structure, vocabulary, context, history, literature and all the rest are now all irrelevant. It’s the glorious march to socialism…that’s what matters.

  94. Arky

    I’m kidding of course. I would be content to see you suffer an eternity of mild inconvenience and slight discomfort.
    Like being stuck forever at Vicroads with crabs.

  95. Mitch M.

    Deducing facts about the world from the language we use to talk about it is not a reliable method of getting to Truth.

    Ludwig Wittgenstein

    The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.

  96. Tel

    I don’t believe in the after life. Used by to many to control others.

    That is a terrible reason for disbelieving in life after death.

    Promising something you never intend to pay has been a remarkably regular scam.

    Otto von Bismarck came up with and old age pension program, justifying collection of additional tax, which would pay out at age 70. Of course, Bismarck knew perfectly well hardly anyone lived that long so he wasn’t too worried about needing to pay out. The US Social Security system is likely to result in a more obvious default. Fortunately with a religion you can never test the outcome, because it’s all based on belief.

  97. dover_beach

    Dover do you still check your old email address?

    No, but I will now.

  98. calli

    Deducing facts about the world from the language we use to talk about it is not a reliable method of getting to Truth.

    You just used language to express that idea.

    How could you deduce facts without language?

  99. dover_beach

    Promising something you never intend to pay has been a remarkably regular scam.

    Sure it is, but you have no idea whether or not the claim that we survive corporeal death is true or false simply because scams such as the one above exist.

  100. Roger

    A few years ago I was doing evening classes in French and the teacher was also teaching French at a local high school. She told me that she had to start teaching English grammar to her students before she started teaching French as they had no understanding of subjects, objects, pronouns, tenses, etc, and giving them lessons in English grammar was essential for them to understand French grammar.

    When I took a course in Koine Greek we spent the first two weeks covering English grammar because the younger students hadn’t been taught it.

  101. Roger

    Fortunately with a religion you can never test the outcome, because it’s all based on belief.

    Try Pascal’s wager then.

  102. John Comnenus

    Should have, could have, but didn’t learn to speak proper

  103. Mitch M.

    Try Pascal’s wager then.

    Try Pascal’s wager for catastrophic global warming.

  104. areff

    or their/there/they’re or affect/effect and so on

    Last week’s Speecie Oz was loaded with literals, including “they’re” instead of “their” in Rebecca Weisser’s piece. Brown’s column was OK, no doubt because he submitted it in that state. The edition was hard to read while shaking one’s head at the howlers.

    Rowan really should hire a sub. Even a bad part-timer would see an improvement.

  105. dover_beach

    Fortunately with a religion you can never test the outcome, because it’s all based on belief.

    Never heard, By their fruits you shall know them?

  106. Rebel with cause

    Just been reading Don Quixote, it is verbose and the sentences run for days (it is also really good) and proof that people of the 17th century were capable of a much higher degree of numeracy than what most people are today.

    We’ve convinced ourselves that everything needs to be dumned down instead of expecting people to rise up.

  107. Roger

    Try Pascal’s wager for catastrophic global warming.

    Touché!

    I’m not a fideist myself so that wouldn’t occur to me.

    But some have found probability theory a helpful way to approach the question of God’s existence.

  108. Lilliana

    @ Roberto
    Good

    @ Mother Lode

    But can they critique hierarchical power structures and the preservation of privilege systems through the tacit cooperation of both the privileged and the othered?

    Yes – we have a few “intellectuals” who can write gibberish. Mostly humanities graduates who spend their weekends in coffee shops and wine bars and let their sprogs run amok in restaurants.

  109. thefrollickingmole

    Rebel with cause

    Have a book my grandfather was awarded when he was about 11 years old at school.
    Highly literate in both style and content.

    They educated to uplift, we educate to stupefy.

  110. cohenite

    …Prolongation of metabolic youth in the female brain also parallels increased female longevity in humans, though mechanisms underlying the latter are similarly not well understood …

    The future is female: Consider Her Ways by John Wyndham.

    Try Pascal’s wager for catastrophic global warming.

    Pascal’s wager is the precautionary principle which covers a lack of evidence. The precautionary principle is described in the Victorian Environmental Protection Act 1970, Section 1C. In respect of AGW, this section speaks of “a lack of full scientific certainty” not being a bar to preventing environmental degradation. That’s what you’re dealing with.

  111. DrBeauGan

    Look, just admit, that like everyone else, you have no idea if there is a god or not, and no possible way to calculate the probability, or even frame the question mathematically

    Like the sane (non-superstitious) people, I need a reason to believe in something. If I can’t find a convincing reason, I don’t believe in it.

    This isn’t really a difficult idea. It works with ghosts, bogeymen, the natural superiority and purity of women, and lots of other things. For some reason, people suspend this kind of thinking when it comes to God. Probably it has something to do with a childhood where there really was a superior and benevolent power looking after you.

  112. Mother Lode

    Yes – we have a few “intellectuals” who can write gibberish. Mostly humanities graduates who spend their weekends in coffee shops and wine bars and let their sprogs run amok in restaurants.

    Mock them all you like – but these people are the fewcha!

    A future where people will sit together all night in discourse, around a fire in a cave. They will despise the people in the nicer cave, who are able to hunt and catch more turnips, for their privilege. They will look at the hungry people living under a rock overhang who never have enough to eat and be so moved to pity that they will go to them and tell them that the people in the nicer cave have essentially stolen turnips and cave space from them, they are monsters, and they should have their cave and turnips confiscated.

  113. Mitch M.

    Probably it has something to do with a childhood where there really was a superior and benevolent power looking after you.

    It seems to be more intrinsic, that the very structure of our cognition predisposes us towards such beliefs.

  114. notafan

    There is no debate with people who’s words drip with condensation , so convinced they are of their own superior intellect.

    Pretty much everyone had

    a childhood where there really was a superior and benevolent power looking after you.

    That the best you have?

    Next up sheep , sky fairy, words, language.

    The good thing is we all get to find out who was right and who was wrong.

    And when it comes to what society I would prefer to live in, a sincere Christian one wins hands down.

  115. Mitch M.

    a childhood where there really was a superior and benevolent power looking after you.

    It’s a Freudian idea which should immediately raise doubts. 😜Might be possible to test it by comparing children who were raised by asshole parents against the rest to see if their religious affiliation is different. Perhaps they become Satanists.

  116. Indolent

    There is no debate with people who’s words drip with condensation , so convinced they are of their own superior intellect.

    Condescension perhaps?

  117. Roger

    It seems to be more intrinsic, that the very structure of our cognition predisposes us towards such beliefs.

    Now that’s a profound observation.

  118. Bruce of Newcastle

    For some reason, people suspend this kind of thinking when it comes to God.

    No they don’t DrB. First the Bible is a work so interconnected, consistent and deep that it takes many years of study to comprehend. Decades really. You are arguing as if you were a 10 year old primary student saying he knows everything about mathematics already. You simply haven’t put in the study.

    Secondly the human philosophy outlined in the Bible actually works. It works for running a civilization better than any other, as the evidence shows: the most successful nations are the ones operating closest to Christian doctrines. The ones who move to a humanist philosophy are going backwards.

    Considering that the essential core principle of Christianity is faith, you might now understand why you do not see the sort of manifesting stuff you are looking for. That would be counter to the core principle.

  119. Old School Conservative

    Speaking of great literature, I’d like to borrow Room 101 to torture the despicable bloke who committed “unspeakable crimes” on his daughter between the ages of 4 and 11.
    The Telegrph’s story is correctly preceded with Graphic Warning

  120. Lilliana

    @Cassie of Sydney

    I think you are correct. They seem to have almost no idea that they are bloody useless and know bugger all. The problem is companies are pandering to them – adding rumpus rooms etc effectively treating adults like children. I can’t see this ending well.

  121. calli

    The future is female: Consider Her Ways by John Wyndham.

    Loved that book.

    His short stories are really very good. “Confidence Trick” would be a good one for some here – an exploration of heaven and hell. It’s quite funny.

  122. I’ve been involved with the graduate recruiting at my organisation for a number of years. I’ve instituted a dictation test – similar to those that we used to do in primary school – in order to weed out the illiterates who can’t distinguish between its/it’s or who’s/whose or their/there/they’re or affect/effect and so on…

    I hope you also test for ‘should have/could have/must have’. Nothing demonstrates the failure of education systems to teach basic English grammar than the proliferation of ‘should of/could of’

    inquiry/enquiry probably tops my list, or perhaps lose/loose.
    My mum considers anyone who cannot explain the difference between continual/continuous to be not worth hiring.

  123. DrBeauGan

    The good thing is we all get to find out who was right and who was wrong.

    Um, no, Notafan. If you’re wrong, you’ll never find out. If I am, I shall.

    I agree with you and BoN that the belief has worked to produce a good working society. Which makes it useful but not necessarily true.

    BoN, I doubt if you’ll get much support from the Catholics here for your methods. They led you into schism.

  124. Roger

    It seems to be more intrinsic, that the very structure of our cognition predisposes us towards such beliefs.

    Now that’s a profound observation.

    In theology it’s called the sensus divinitatus.

    The reason it doesn’t function perfectly in humans, and not at all in some, is due to the noetic effect of sin, i.e. our minds and their reasoning powers have been corrupted.

  125. calli

    There is no debate with people who’s words drip with condensation , so convinced they are of their own superior intellect.

    Chuckle. You are very naughty, Nota. 😄

    I love woids. Where would we be without them?

  126. jupes

    This is comedy gold!

    North Korea has executed an envoy for failing to secure a deal with US President Donald Trump at the Trump-Kim summit in Vietnam, it is claimed.

    Wait there’s more!

    Kim Sung-hye, co-negotiator at the talks, and Shin Hye-yong, who interpreted for North Korea’s leader in Hanoi, were also sent to political prison camps, according to the paper.

    It is believed Hye-yong was accused of undermining the authority of North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong Un, by making a translation mistake.

    No pressure at all for the next translator.

  127. calli

    You just know they’ll make this Trump’s fault.

  128. So I guess no one wants to talk about breasts, then?

  129. DrBeauGan

    Considering that the essential core principle of Christianity is faith, you might now understand why you do not see the sort of manifesting stuff you are looking for.

    Yes, I am seriously deficient in faith, BoN. I blame God.

  130. notafan

    Perhaps I should have said debating, instead of debate.

  131. Mother Lode

    It is believed Hye-yong was accused of undermining the authority of North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong Un, by making a translation mistake.

    I seem to remember his Dad doing the same thing in Team America.

  132. BrettW

    Whoever is the Human Services Minister needs to sort out the Centrelink app (see Daily Mail). Seems you click to continue after reading the blurb about acknowledging the traditional owners of the land.

    I acknowledge the fact the traditional owners should be grateful Captain Cook and the English arrived and settled before the Spanish / Portuguese / French did.

  133. dover_beach

    BoN, I doubt if you’ll get much support from the Catholics here for your methods. They led you into schism.

    The idea that the study of the Bible is something rare in Catholicism is historically absurd.

  134. Mitch M.

    In theology it’s called the sensus divinitatus.

    The reason it doesn’t function perfectly in humans, and not at all in some, is due to the noetic effect of sin, i.e. our minds and their reasoning powers have been corrupted.

    It much more than about belief in ethereal things. The debate about the ontology of mathematics, the debate about the wave function in QM, the mereological fallacy in cognitive science, the tendency to think that our abstractions are true representations of reality.

  135. Roger

    Faith is a gift.

    That means DrBG is right to blame God for his lack of it (whether he was being facetious or not).

    The statement needs to be unpacked a bit, nota.

  136. DrBeauGan

    notafan
    #3030846, posted on May 31, 2019 at 4:30 pm
    Faith is a gift.

    So is doubt. Given to us by God, possibly, so we wouldn’t get conned.

  137. DrBeauGan

    the tendency to think that our abstractions are true representations of reality.

    Quite so. Or as I put it, trying to deduce facts about the world from the language we use to describe it.

  138. Geriatric Mayfly

    Buggered if I know how to do this linky doodah properly. But Calamity Jane seems unaware that the Swear Jar is open again now that Deadwood is back.

  139. DrBeauGan

    The ontological argument goes:
    God is perfect and has all positive properties,
    Existence is a positive property.
    Therefore God exists.

    And you don’t think this is an argument from language, dover?

  140. Bruce of Newcastle

    BoN, I doubt if you’ll get much support from the Catholics here for your methods.

    Five hundred years of angst? Families have minor disagreements from time to time.
    You can see why the churches that I prefer to attend are more like university lectures. 😀

    Practically though, in Christianity a moron and a genius are on the same level, since the metric is faith not intelligence. I’ve quoted verses like John 5:24 before in order to show why this is the case. On the other hand as I just said the Bible is amazingly deep and interconnected. (As an example try considering the direct relationship between Jesus sacrifice and the caduceus in Numbers 21:4-9.)

  141. Roger

    the tendency to think that our abstractions are true representations of reality.

    Or as I put it, trying to deduce facts about the world from the language we use to describe it.

    This sounds like post-Kantian solipsism, an epistemological dead end.

  142. dover_beach

    I asked you about the cosmological argument.

  143. DrBeauGan

    in Christianity a moron and a genius are on the same level,

    I don’t have a problem with this. The genius can provide better arguments, but that doesn’t make him right. He probably makes fewer stuff ups, or at least he doesn’t keep making the same ones.

  144. DrBeauGan

    dover_beach
    #3030861, posted on May 31, 2019 at 4:47 pm
    I asked you about the cosmological argument.

    I think that if you check, you wrote ontological.

  145. memoryvault

    There ya go.
    He could have been a contender.
    Hell. He could have been a Judge.
    But he wipes himself out at the first turn.
    You also lose your deposit, MV.

    Fair enough Winston. I bow to your superior knowledge and experience in these matters.
    After all, you have mentioned having multiple marriages whereas I had only one in 41 years.
    Obviously you are far better at relationships than I.

  146. DrBeauGan

    Sorry Dover, I was wrong. You did say cosmological. I don’t know what the cosmological argument is.

  147. calli

    Good work, Mayfly! You did it!

  148. Herodotus

    From the Canberra Weekly magazine:
    A local jewellery maker and artist has created a work that’s been nominated for a prestigious National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Art Award.
    Although described as a Worimi woman, she looks quite european. Stollen Generation, as Blair or Bolt might say, or would say in a world less encumbered by PC.
    And her work? It’s a necklace jewellery piece made from echidna quills cast in wax. She wanted to represent “resilience and the resilience of our people”.
    In the accompanying photo it looks more like a bushfire hazard than a piece of jewellery.

  149. Herodotus

    Awaiting moderation!
    Get fucked and goodbye.

  150. DrBeauGan

    Ah. I checked on Wikipedia. It’s the cosmogonic arguments, and they are all about causality. Which is a word seriously in need of a definition, and as I have pointed out before, not used in physics. We get along very well without that particular abstraction.

  151. memoryvault

    All this doubt about fairies at the bottom of the garden.
    Go for an explore in the area north of Perth and east of Hyde Park.
    There you will find not only fairies at the bottom of the garden but also the top, and in the houses too.
    A casual stroll along Beaufort Street and you will find almost wall to wall coffee shops and cafes overflowing with them.

  152. Johno

    I love calamity. I remember the scene where she was asleep on her horse by the side of the road. A stage coach thundered by and woke her. She looked up, said “C***ts!!!!” She was pissed.

  153. Arky

    So I guess no one wants to talk about breasts, then?

    ..
    I don’t believe in breasts.

  154. bespoke

    Mitch M.
    #3030787, posted on May 31, 2019 at 3:19 pm
    Persistent metabolic youth in the aging female brain

    …Prolongation of metabolic youth in the female brain also parallels increased female longevity in humans, though mechanisms underlying the latter are similarly not well understood …

    I tend to be leave my wife when she say’s I’m her Dorian Gray. It’s undeniable.

  155. Roger

    We get along very well without that particular abstraction.

    !

    Can I pass this on to my brother, BG?

    I’m sure he’ll get quite a kick out of it.

  156. memoryvault

    Reading through the comments it occurs to me that Numbers could be telling the truth – after a fashion. If you failed to register for National Service, if/when they caught up with you, you were in, regardless of whether birthday your birthday came up or not.

    Also, all options were off the table, and even medical standards could be relaxed if the person had some compensatory attribute the army were keen to get their hands on at the time.

    That would certainly explain Numbers oft-claimed circumstances to a tee.

  157. DrBeauGan

    I don’t believe in breasts.

    I do. I’ve seen lots of them. So have you if you’ve seen Bill Shorten.

  158. DrBeauGan

    Can I pass this on to my brother, BG?

    I’m sure he’ll get quite a kick out of it.

    If he’s a physicist, he should know that already.

  159. Tel

    Fortunately with a religion you can never test the outcome, because it’s all based on belief.

    Try Pascal’s wager then.

    There are reputed to be many benefits from chanting Krishna.

    https://vedicfeed.com/benefits-chanting-hare-krishna-maha-mantra/

    6. The most important benefit – the love of God

    The most important benefit of chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is to find God realization and pure love of God. When our consciousness becomes one with God, our spiritual movement is depicted in our characters and behavior, just as how the sun approaches the horizon, it is preceded by warmth and illumination.

    Likewise, the name of Krishna is revived in our heart, which has been missing since the start of Kali Yuga. One must understand that before the soul enters the material world, it has unique, special relationship with God, and the strength of the relationship is way stronger than what it is like with the material body. When one chants the mantra, one starts to redevelop and strengthen this relationship with the God.

    For the love of God won’t somebody chant Krishna! But can we be sure God really loves this? As Pascal explained, it’s a risk … maybe there is no God so it doesn’t matter. Then again since the benefits are potentially great, and the danger is small … we should all go it … right??

    Uhhhh … you go first … I’ll be right behind and catch up quite soonish.

  160. cohenite

    Awaiting moderation!
    Get fucked and goodbye.

    Take it on the chin. The main issue seems to be the religion of pieces. Be creative; what seems to be acceptable:
    mu.lim
    is.am
    RoP
    reavers
    hessian bags

  161. None

    Like the sane (non-superstitious) people, I need a reason to believe in something. If I can’t find a convincing reason, I don’t believe in it.

    Jesus Christ. Who was he?

  162. cohenite

    The issue with God is what type is he; Paul Davies lists from memory 3 possibilities:

    The universe is God
    God lives within the universe
    God is outside the universe

  163. Johno

    How so MV? Sniffy never mentioned registering,ever. He knew of the CMF option but chose not to exercise it .
    His objection has always been his unwillingness to contribute to a war he objected to. His only compensatory attribute was a couple of years in a Teachers college. This was so undervalued that he was assigned to Infantry.

  164. Roger

    If he’s a physicist, he should know that already.

    What area of physics do you work in, if I may ask?

    It will help to provide some context for him.

  165. None

    It’s a fair question, Cohenite. And if BG wants a Reason to believe his first question is which God? Does it matter if there’s more than one God and if so can you just believe him any of them or do you have to believe in all of them? And if God is sort of something like the blind watchmaker of the Deists (hello Paul Davis) would you need to believe in him anyway?

  166. cohenite

    Actually there is a 4th possibility; this thread is so long God may reside in it.

  167. MatrixTransform

    Try Pascal’s wager

    I wrote it on a piece of paper and put it into Russel’s teapot so I wouldn’t forget where I left it

  168. Diogenes

    Just been reading Don Quixote, it is verbose and the sentences run for days (it is also really good) and proof that people of the 17th century were capable of a much higher degree of numeracy than what most people are today.

    Try reading a Kleist short story in its original German. The longest I remember goes for a about 10 pages. It contained 2(! yes two!) sentences. Given German is a Subject Object Verb language like Latin (eg I the boy hit) instead of the English SVO, I hit the boy you can image trying to rember everything that happened

  169. dover_beach

    Ah. I checked on Wikipedia. It’s the cosmogonic arguments, and they are all about causality. Which is a word seriously in need of a definition, and as I have pointed out before, not used in physics. We get along very well without that particular abstraction.

    LOL. This may be true of climate science, but the idea that physicists and other scientists generally eschew the concept of causation is laughable.

  170. MatrixTransform

    and let their sprogs run amok in restaurants.

    waiting staff and baristas

  171. dover_beach

    The issue with God is what type is he; Paul Davies lists from memory 3 possibilities:

    The universe is God
    God lives within the universe
    God is outside the universe

    It’s not really that hard to work out it is the third.

  172. thefrollickingmole

    Diogenes

    In the “iron Kingdom” a history of Prussia is mentions Frederick the great complaining that in especially badly written books in German you would get to the bottom of the page before you knew what the subject being described was.

  173. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    How so MV? Sniffy never mentioned registering,ever. He knew of the CMF option but chose not to exercise it .

    Didn’t you have to be a clairvoyant to exercise the Citizen’s Military Forces option?

  174. Top Ender

    Read bits of the “Guardian journo loose in the Kimberly” article to Mrs TE, who being a farm girl originally enjoyed it immensely.

    The city sheila was “on assignment” for three days and two nights by her own account, and in that time contributed nothing.

    If that’s not a metaphor for her whole useless existence I don’t know what is.

  175. memoryvault

    How so MV? Sniffy never mentioned registering,ever.

    That’s my whole point, Johno. If Numbers never registered then he was in regardless of whether his birthday came up or not. No chance then to suddenly develop an interest in the CMF or any other alternative. Also no choice as to whether he was sent overseas or not.

  176. bespoke

    God is outside the universe

    It’s not really that hard to work out it is the third.

    So he is’t everywhere?

  177. Old School Conservative

    Ah. I checked on Wikipedia

    I did too, in oder to differentiate between enquire and inquire.
    There were so many different interpretations (including “they are the same”) that I gave up in more confusion than when I started.
    Must repair to the library and look up a dead tree dictionary.

  178. Mitch M.

    It’s not really that hard to work out it is the third.

    I didn’t know Peter Cook was a theist(“I’m interested in the universe and everything around it.”) 🙂

  179. Johno

    ZULU that would depend on what day of the week it was.Sniffys facts are flexible.

  180. Empire 5:5

    Kim Sung-hye, co-negotiator at the talks, and Shin Hye-yong, who interpreted for North Korea’s leader in Hanoi, were also sent to political prison camps, according to the paper.

    It is believed Hye-yong was accused of undermining the authority of North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong Un, by making a translation mistake.

    Govt agencies in Oz spend big on HR consultants for useless advice. If the CPS adopted Kim’s performance management process, the state could be run for 20% of current cost.

  181. MatrixTransform

    So I guess no one wants to talk about breasts

    chicken, probably with tarragon

  182. DrBeauGan

    You just used language to express that idea.

    True Calli. But I’m not claiming it is true for that reason. I have other reasons, to do with observations and facts and logic. Just being able to say something in English doesn’t make it true.

    I’m sure you knew that.

    But the idea of causes is in metaphysics, not in physics. And deducing anything from it is certainly tendentious and inevitably risky.

  183. Johno

    MV, He has never mentioned not registering. He could have joined the CMF, then registered. If his number came up he had his out with CMF. He chose not to join the CMF. Instead he gambled on the marble and lost.
    If he was a man he would have taken it on the chin. But he didn’t and he isn’t. He is a sook.
    Registering is not an issue.

  184. calli

    OSC, in days of yore, one made an “inquiry” at the “Enquiries” counter.

    But the past is another country. They do things differently there.*

    * youse all know who said it first

  185. One question about UFOs.

    Why would someone who can travel between the stars (or galaxies) bother coming here?
    Or bother taking to us?

  186. dover_beach

    So he is’t everywhere?

    He isn’t anywhere. Something immaterial has no location. The point is that God is neither the universe (option 1) nor is he a merely powerful being (option 2).

  187. DrBeauGan

    What area of physics do you work in, if I may ask?

    It will help to provide some context for him.

    I’m a mathematician, Roger, so I don’t work in physics. My first degree was in physics, but I saw the light. Ask him to find a physics text which defines or uses causes. There are some recent papers which try to develop the idea of causal nets, but that is very recent and hasn’t got anywhere. Generally, physics used ODEs for talking about predicting the future and how one state leads to another.

  188. calli

    Just being able to say something in English doesn’t make it true.

    I agree. There are all sorts of languages and all of them mean something. I’m thinking coding, or calculus, or chemistry.

    And perhaps there are things that language can’t express, but is still knowable.

  189. memoryvault

    So he is’t everywhere?

    Well He certainly isn’t in the Assembly of God church, which is an army of ground troops that Senator Ron Boswell (retired) has commanded on behalf of the National Party these past 30 years.

  190. bespoke

    It’s a concept way beyond me dover. So ‘God be with you” etc is still correct then.

  191. DrBeauGan

    And perhaps there are things that language can’t express, but is still knowable.

    Wittgenstein disagrees with you, Calli, but I am on your side. Subject to caveats on what knowable means.

  192. cohenite

    It’s not really that hard to work out it is the third.

    Logically, and I really must find my Paul Davies books on the subject, that makes no sense. The universe includes things which are already not in it; such as black holes and the universal limit which is potentially infinite but within a finite structure thus allowing expansion to be faster than the speed of light.

  193. calli

    Oo is this Wittgenstein dude? He seems to have very little imagination.

  194. calli

    Okay. I’ve Googled him. He looks like a miserable bugger.

    I will investigate further.

  195. Notafan

    Scott Morrison is AOG.

    So is Israel Folau.

  196. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #3030917, posted on May 31, 2019 at 5:45 pm
    Oo is this Wittgenstein dude? He seems to have very little imagination.

    He was a philosopher, Calli. He used to be an engineer and architect, but he went to the bad.

  197. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Try Pascal’s wager

    I wrote it on a piece of paper and put it into Russel’s teapot so I wouldn’t forget where I left it

    Schrodinger might have something to say about that paper

  198. dover_beach

    But the idea of causes is in metaphysics, not in physics.

    Eddington travels to Príncipe to measure the deflection of starlight (effect) by the gravitational influence of the sun (cause) and we are meant to believe that the concept of causation was never in play at all.

  199. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Horror Bunya Highway crash a potential murder-suicide

    By Mackenzie Scott
    39 minutes ago May 31, 2019

    Homicide detectives are investigating whether the horrific crash on a Queensland’s Bunya Highway earlier this week which claimed the lives of a mother and her four children was a deliberate act.

    State police commissioner Ian Stewart confirmed that one of the lines of inquiry for the crash was murder-suicide.

    On Monday night, Charmaine Harris McLeod, 35, and her four children – Aaleyn, 6, Matilda, 5, Wyatt, 4 and Zaidok, 2 – were all killed in a head on collision with a truck on the Bunya Highway at Kumbia, south of South Burnett Region town of Kingaroy, on Monday just after 7pm.

    “There is very specific rules about traffic crashes that occur when … it’s not intentional,” police commissioner Stewart told the Courier Mail.

    Breaking, from the Oz.

  200. Geriatric Mayfly

    From David Thompson, at whose site resides a picture of this heifer-lump. Only the brave of heart should take a peek; others, avert thine eyes.

    Smaller plus-size people, please check your privilege. That includes a mid-fat like me who is FAR more privileged than folks larger than me. I’m honestly so sick of people including small fats and thinking that’s enough… and I’m sick of small fats not calling out the fact that they are the biggest people at the event/shoot/meeting or whatever it is. Fat people above a 20 exist, and we fucking matter. We deserve to be included and seen. Super fat people deserve to be included. Infini-fat people deserve to be included. Fat people of colour deserve to be included. Disabled fat people deserve to be included. We all matter too. Your body positivity isn’t shit if it doesn’t include us.

  201. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Try Pascal’s wager

    I wrote it on a piece of paper and put it into Russel’s teapot so I wouldn’t forget where I left it

    Schrodinger might have something to say about that paper

    or not

  202. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    from oshutralian dot com – no linky

    Anthony Albanese has admitted he agrees with Bill Shorten that “vested interests” had a hand in the party’s shock federal election defeat.

    “There is no doubt that vested interests did play a role,” he told Nine’s Today program on Friday.

    “But we also have to accept our responsibility that some of the policies that we put forward clearly didn’t connect with enough people.”

    no… I think they connected with too many people

  203. Mother Lode

    Or as I put it, trying to deduce facts about the world from the language we use to describe it.

    This sounds like post-Kantian solipsism, an epistemological dead end.

    I am guessing Philosophical Investigations. Maybe Zettel.

    Wittgenstein is supposed to have written his famous Tractatus Logico Philosophicus while a POW in WWI. He won great kudos for it. Then spent the rest of his life refuting it.

    Fuckin’ Austrians, huh?

  204. Steve trickler

    Lampoon the other God/ROP and see what happens?…..we all know what would happen.



  205. Notafan

    Seagull scolded the cat for jumping to that obvious conclusion.

    More little mites to die such a horrible death.

  206. Tintarella di Luna

    Dr BeauGan is your gravatar a picture of you smoking a Cuban cigar in the dark in a contemplative state? Asking for a friend.

  207. Mother Lode

    Schrodinger might have something to say about that paper

    or not

    Or both.

  208. dover_beach

    Russel’s teapot

    The only thing you need to know about Hume through Russell to the present is that not a single one of these people responded to the cosmological argument as it had been formulated by its leading proponents. As I’ve mentioned previously, W. Norris Clarke brilliantly exposed that not a single one of these clowns ever troubled himself with a primary source, preferring to repeat a stock caricature and thus become a part of a conga line of majestic ignorance and hypocrisy.

  209. Tel

    Generally, physics used ODEs for talking about predicting the future and how one state leads to another.

    ODEs don’t have a direction, they run forward or backward equally well.

    However, there’s reasonably strong empirical support for the Second Law of Thermodynamics enforcing an arrow of time. That is to say, you can stir the milk into your coffee much more easily than you can reverse the spoon and unstir the milk back out again. I’m careful to always drink black coffee in the hope that avoiding the arrow of time makes me live longer.

    Now the thoughtful reader might notice a discrepancy … how do the ODEs cope with the Second Law? Ahhh, that comes down to the modelling of turbulence, chaos theory, and the way in which quantum effects decide to manifest at a macroscopic level. The ODE is based on a smooth universe assumption, while the solution of a chaos equation will automatically impose a lumpy universe assumption (even in raw math, go try it).

  210. Nick

    I can’t believe there isn’t more outrage against the sacking of Allen Stajic as Matilda’s coach. The lezzo mafia are a disgrace.

  211. DrBeauGan

    Eddington travels to Príncipe to measure the deflection of starlight (effect) by the gravitational influence of the sun (cause) and we are meant to believe that the concept of causation was never in play at all.

    No, he went to test a prediction made by Albert Einstein. Which didn’t use or need the notions of cause and effect. That’s your choice of language to talk about it. Neither Einstein nor Eddington used it.

    I don’t mind your using the word, but your assumption that there are chains of discrete causes is not much use when talking about the world. Indeed, its only use appears to be ‘proving’ the existence of God.

  212. Tintarella di Luna

    faith is a gift

    especially in challenging times. I was listening to a JB Peterson talk about Solzehnitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago and how Solzhenitsyn noted that those who had faith in God were less miserable and seem to fare better than those who only believed in the State and nothing else

  213. calli

    I read through the entire Wikki entry. Poor soul. What a life.

    Wittgenstein argues that philosophers must leave the frictionless ice and return to the “rough ground” of ordinary language in use.

    I see where you got the “disagreement” from, Beau.

    Words are beautiful things. But they can’t describe everything. How can I describe looking into the eyes of my tiny, new grandson or biting into a perfect apple? Hemmingway was good at it, but not perfect.

    As to what God might look like, words fail.

  214. DrBeauGan

    Tintarella di Luna
    #3030937, posted on May 31, 2019 at 6:10 pm
    Dr BeauGan is your gravatar a picture of you smoking a Cuban cigar in the dark in a contemplative state? Asking for a friend.

    Yes, I admit it. I hoped you would all think it was a picture of a black hole.

  215. memoryvault

    Good peoples,
    The debate as to whether God exists or not has been going on for at least six thousand years, probably longer. It’s not going to be resolved on a socio-economic-political blog on a Friday night.

    Can we give it a rest for a while?

  216. bespoke

    The question, “Is Faith a gift?” Is not always an innocent inquiry, seeking for a doctrinal explanation. It is often a mixture of interrogation and subterfuge, hoping for a psychological excuse. As such, we should treat it, not with our courtesy, but with our clear contempt.

    Not this duck, roll your eye’s at my dumb, naive questions but they have no ill intent. (maybe a little mischief)

  217. Tel

    Can we give it a rest for a while?

    God will give me a sign when it’s the appropriate time to give it a rest.

  218. Tintarella di Luna

    @Roberto

    I’ve been involved with the graduate recruiting at my organisation for a number of years. I’ve instituted a dictation test – similar to those that we used to do in primary school – in order to weed out the illiterates who can’t distinguish between its/it’s or who’s/whose or their/there/they’re or affect/effect and so on…

    Roberto do you also apply a comprehension test? That would be useful too I’d say.

  219. DrBeauGan

    Now the thoughtful reader might notice a discrepancy … how do the ODEs cope with the Second Law? Ahhh, that comes down to the modelling of turbulence, chaos theory, and the way in which quantum effects decide to manifest at a macroscopic level. The ODE is based on a smooth universe assumption, while the solution of a chaos equation will automatically impose a lumpy universe assumption (even in raw math, go try it).

    This is just wrong. The best and prettiest pictures of strange attractors come from smooth ODEs. And strange attractors produce chaos. It’s a matter of sensitivity to initial conditions.
    There is no inconsistency in reversibility of chaotic states.

    I agree that classical mechanics is invariant under time reversal and real life isn’t. But none of that has anything to do with Dover’s preference for a particular language, which allows him to deduce the existence of God but would stultify physics.

  220. Cassie of Sydney

    “cohenite
    #3030880, posted on May 31, 2019 at 5:12 pm
    Awaiting moderation!
    Get fucked and goodbye.

    Take it on the chin. The main issue seems to be the religion of pieces. Be creative; what seems to be acceptable:
    mu.lim
    is.am
    RoP
    reavers
    hessian bags”

    You omitted my favourite….”the religion of pieces”.

  221. Tel

    Faith is a gift … that’s for sure.

    The weird knitted thing I got for my 13th birthday was also a gift. For some reason I kept that longer than the faith … felt bad about tossing it out I suppose. Krishna works in mysterious ways!

  222. Leigh Lowe

    Yeah, Nick, the treatment of Stajcic (sacked Wymminses soccer coach) is fucking atrocious.
    Another Wymminses sports administrator (Mzzzz Reid) shooting her mouth off and trashing someone’s reputation… .
    “Well, if you knew what we know, you’d sack him too (wink, nudge)”.
    Mzzz Reid is now conveniently off on indefinite leave after defaming someone and probably permanently damaging his career.
    All because a few “elite” wymminses soccerers couldn’t handle the real heat which comes with pocketing taxpayer money for kicking a ball around.

  223. memoryvault

    God will give me a sign when it’s the appropriate time to give it a rest.

    So if it turns out He doesn’t exist we’re locked in this pointless debate forever?

  224. Leigh Lowe

    Can we give it a rest for a while?

    Let me explain.
    Any individual on this blog can “give a rest” to any subject they like.
    What we don’t do is dictate to others what they can and can’t discuss.
    The hint is at the top of the page … “open forum” means what it says.

  225. Mother Lode

    I really enjoyed Wittgenstein.

    Just sayin’.

    He believed that there were no philosophical problems, that they all ultimately resolved into linguistic confusion.

    There was a story of him attending a talk by Popper(?) where he said so. There was apparently an exchange along the lines of (and I am going from memory here – both the person who was there and mine):

    Popper: What about the problem of infinity?
    Wittgenstein: Mathematical problem!
    Popper: The origin of the universe?
    Wittgenstein: Physics problem!

    I expect that by the end they were the only two people talking – everyone else watching on like a tennis match.

    What an amazing thing to have witnessed.

  226. Tel

    This is just wrong. The best and prettiest pictures of strange attractors come from smooth ODEs. And strange attractors produce chaos. It’s a matter of sensitivity to initial conditions.
    There is no inconsistency in reversibility of chaotic states.

    Tsk tsk … you didn’t really try that did you?

    Pick a strange attractor built from an ODE like the Lorentz Attractor would be the most well known. Start from your favourite initial condition and ask yourself where the system state will be after a long (but precise) period of time. Show your working to find that result.

    Difficult equation to solve huh?

  227. Mitch M.

    Oo is this Wittgenstein dude? He seems to have very little imagination.

    He is a philosopher who disavowed most of what he had written 20 years previously so I’ll give him credit for changing his mind.

    Good peoples,
    The debate as to whether God exists or not has been going on for at least six thousand years, probably longer. It’s not going to be resolved on a socio-economic-political blog on a Friday night.

    True. If the question hasn’t been resolved in such a long time the next question to ask: “Is it a valid question?” There seems to be his notion that we can answer all the important questions. We can’t, we don’t even get close. So how about we think more like engineers and focus on the questions we can answer?

  228. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Malcolm Turnbull hired by investment firm KKR
    Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull has landed a new job in New York.

    By Kane Wu and Byron Kaye
    AAP
    An hour ago May 31, 2019
    11 Comments

    Former Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull has been hired as a global senior adviser by New York-based investment firm KKR & Co.

    The former journalist, barrister and investment banker served as Australia’s prime minister from 2015 to 2018, replaced by current prime minister Scott Morrison in a leadership spill.

    Formerly known as Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co, Turnbull’s new employer describes itself as a leading global investment firm and “investors with an industrialist vision”.

    The appointment is effective from June 1, KKR said in a statement.

    Mr Turnbull, 64, served as Australia’s 29th prime minister from September 2015 to August 2018, when he was ousted in a leadership challenge.

    The appointment marks a return to the world of finance for Mr Turnbull.

    In the 1990s, Mr Turnbull was the local managing director of global investment bank Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

    He was also an investor in one of Australia’s first internet service providers, OzEmail, reportedly buying a stake for $500,000in 1994 and selling it for $57 million to MCI Worldcom five years later.

    From the Oz. Can we cancel his citizenship while he’s out of the country?

  229. bespoke

    Only one other second only to numbers that tediously brings up the same tedious talking points.

  230. Memory vault:

    Fair enough Winston. I bow to your superior knowledge and experience in these matters.
    After all, you have mentioned having multiple marriages whereas I had only one in 41 years.
    Obviously you are far better at relationships than I.

    I can’t help it, MV.
    I love weddings, and I have a toaster collection spanning half a century.

Comments are closed.