Putting the coal back into Coalition. And the human and environmental cost of carbon mitigation

The PM did the right thing when he took a lump of coal into the House to make a point. But that was not a point to make in the final stretch of the race given that most people claim to have some kind of concern about the weather.

Graham Lloyd reported that the Menzies people have been busy with surveys of public opinion on climate matters. Much the same as other places in the west different surveys all find large majorities that express concern. Of course the numbers depend on the questions asked and you could put a massive error bar through the dots. Surveys that rate climate concerns in relation to other issues tell a very different story (low rating for climate) and this message becomes deafening when people are asked how much they will pony up to support their concern.

And so with a couple of years to the next election campaign let’s prod the Coalition to get up to speed with the science, make the case for the benefits of the warming and the extra CO2 of recent times and explain in excruciating detail the massive human and environmental costs of carbon mitigation. The dollar costs will soon be obvious enough in power bills.

Human costs

Lives lost, the biofuel story. Matt Ridley reports that ethanol uses 5% of the world’s grain, mostly corn. This puts up the price of food and the poorest suffer. He cites an estimate that almost 200,000 people die annually and this is probably on the high side. Many different figures circulate but even Mike Hulme who is nuanced alarmist reported in strong terms on this situation. He wrote this in Why We Disagree About Climate Change:

The UN’s special rapporteur on the right to food condemned the growing of biofuels as ‘a crime against humanity’ because they diverted arable land to the production of crops which are then burned for fuel instead of sold for food’…Rather than contributing to the theoretical food security of hundreds of millions of the world’s poor in 50 years time, it has reduced the actual food security of tens of millions of the world’s poor today.

Lives not being saved. These are the millions who die prematurely in developing countries for want of clean power to replace the animal dung and other fuels that they use with poisonous consequences for their lungs. John Christy is eloquent on this topic on video. Under the influence of the Obama administration and EU greenies major lending agencies have not allowed investment in coal and gas projects in the Third World.

From another Lomborg paper.

Almost three billion people cook and keep warm by burning twigs and dung, creating fumes that lead to one out of every 13 deaths globally. Funding appropriate projects could prevent many of these fatalities by expanding access to [reliable hydrocarbon based] electricity, which would power basic stoves and heaters while fueling productivity in agriculture and industry.

Impact on the natural environment

Millions of birds and bats including endangered species minced and roasted annually.

Rainforests cleared for palm oil for biofuel.

Forests felled for woodchips to burn in DRAX instead of coal.

Other ecosystems scraped clean to make way for wind factories and fields of solar panels. A pity about the wildlife and also the effect on power prices and reliability.

Impact on the social environment

Regulation nation. The social of Nanny statism – no plastic straws the tip of the iceberg of misguided environmental regulations. 3000 pages of law and regulations to establish the renewable energy grid in South Australia, the model for all commonwealth and state regulations that followed.

Corruption of public debate and the political process.

Corruption of science.

Trashing school education.

Someone remind me about the benefits of carbon mitigation.

This entry was posted in Global warming and climate change policy, Rafe. Bookmark the permalink.

40 Responses to Putting the coal back into Coalition. And the human and environmental cost of carbon mitigation

  1. A simple survey question. Australia contributes approx 1.4% of all global CO2 emissions (which includes our coal and mineral exports). Would you be prepared to pay $x/annum in order to reduce that figure to 1.399%?

  2. Send them two spherical objects in the mail.
    One representing the atmosphere, the other AU’s contribution to atmospheric CO2.

    One of them would be a blow up beachball.

  3. stackja

    Politics, education, MSM and science have been corrupted. How many really know about the real CO2 situation?

  4. Roger

    Economic costs

    Rent seeking; the transfer of wealth from the productive, wealth creating sectors of the economy to the non-productive.

  5. CameronH

    It would be impossible to get any of that information past the far left gate keepers in the main stream media.

  6. It would be impossible to get any of that information past the far left gate keepers in the main stream media.

    If the government put that out information, the media could not refuse to publish. They would, of course, do everything in their power to discredit. However, the more the government pushed out facts and evidence, the more difficult if would become for the media. The public would soon catch on.

  7. Roger

    It would be impossible to get any of that information past the far left gate keepers in the main stream media.

    Then do what Trump does, bypass the msm and go straight to the voters.

  8. Empire 5:5

    Someone remind me about the benefits of carbon mitigation.

    Words have meaning and carbon mitigation might as well mean the culling of humans.
    Remind them of what they mean: CO2 – the harmless gas.

  9. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Rafe, I still think the ‘science’ needs to be addressed for what it is: something not particularly secure in genuine scientific terms. Therefore, the first thing to be done is to emphasise in every possible forum that there is no climate emergency. Heat needs to be taken out of this debate (pun intended). Little children must not be frightened any more at school. Make that very plain, ScoMo. Tell little children to help out for the planet in the ways that Rafe suggests, by other environmental actions.

    Then comes a period of serious public questioning of the models and the available evidence, pointing out deficiencies in what the models cover, and how much the debate has been politicised such that much false information is circulating about world temperatures (hard to really measure), polar ice and glacier melts and sea level rises (both are negligible). Especially important that this message gets out before the next election. Also, public relations in general media should address the cost of doing nothing in terms of opportunity cost elsewhere when the cost of doing ‘something’ that is useless is extremely high.

  10. Once a week in the Saturday edition of a Farfax paper, place a one page paid ad with a summary of a peer reviewed scientific paper that debunks one or another of the AGW junk. Crowd source the funds for it.

  11. Linden

    I see a young lass, a demonstrator in Melbourne last week taking part in a major intersection blockage. Her comments related to zero emissions by the year 2025. Would not that mean a total collapse of the entire country’s transport system air sea and land; which would in turn lead to a state of anarchy as people grappled with the desperate situation of obtaining for example staple food supplies. Do these young people really take so much for granted? These days I someone could put up a good argument that they really do.

  12. Rafe Champion

    A combination of Government PR and a strong social media ground game would easily get around the gatekeepers in the declining MSM. Plus some distribution of pamphlets outside school gates and inside P&C groups to attract attention. We are not trying to change any closed minds, just to get to a useful percentage of people who have been too busy and distracted so far to get properly informed.

  13. Petros

    Reminds me of the percentage of people who willingly paid extra for green energy on their electricity bills some years ago. It was only something in the order of 10 to 15 percent from memory. Now we have no option on the bills.
    BTW great idea, Gary, but I bet they would not run it.

  14. Empire 5:5

    Trump Digs Coal.
    CO2 The Harmless Gas.
    Power To The People.
    Cheap Power.
    And V8s.

    We don’t need no stinkin’ lyin’ meeja. That’s how we got into this mess. Folks got to believing The News.
    Turn It Off.

  15. Rafe Champion

    The biggest problem is the closed minds inside the Coalition party room.
    Does anyone have a list? And how many of them were Turnbull supporters who turfed Abbott?

  16. Muddy

    Neutralise the enablers. Undermine them. It can be done. Look how our enemies have undermined our institutions, such as marriage. Nothing will happen until the enablers are dealt with. A chair seat without legs or a base, cannot function as a chair.
    What is required is strategy and the courage to take the initiative and define how and when our enemies will react. Start making the rules, rather than playing by the rules that have been set for us.

  17. Muddy

    Look how the traditional definition of science has been undermined.
    It is possible to counter-mine.

  18. Jonesy

    CO2 lags temperature by eight hundred years. It cycles through the atmosphere under eight years. It is absorbed into the ocean and can remain there for five hundred years, our oceans act as a buffer maintaining the trace concentration in the atmosphere. The kicker? It takes over two thousand years an over 90m of ice pack before air bubbles become fast within the ice. The experts would have us believe that the current atmosphere permiates the entire snow ice pack down to the level where it is fixed for all time…in two thousand year old ice…with no study extant proving permiability…and this evidence miraculously curves up from 280ppm to the exact start of the real time Moana Loa record.

    The CO2 story is bunk! It does not act as a greenhouse gas. When IR is radiated from the surface of the Earth, a very specific frequency of IR interacts and is retransmitted from individual co2 molecules to their surrounds…exiting the atmosphere almost at the speed of light. It is an essential, critical gas required to support life on this planet. 400ppm total concentration, 15.2ppm is due to ALL human industrial input……0.2736ppm is due to us Australians!!! Ferchrisake…The combined population of China and India exhale more CO2 than we as an industrial nation produce.

  19. Rafe Champion

    The science is with us!
    Progress will be slow at first because we only have a critical mass in our own echo chambers.
    We have to depend on evidence, reasonable discussion and a ratchet effect so when people get some understanding of the situation they will never slip back.
    As Lizzie said, focus on the things that we are NOT getting because of the money spent to put up the price of power. Never mind about the cost in billions, that is next to meaningless for average folk, tell it in terms of hospitals, roads, and the like.
    And as Jonesy says, keep asking how much they are prepared to pay, and where it ranks on their list of issues.

  20. Jonesy

    AND NOT FORGETTING! How much do you want to spend to reduce that amount by 0.0684ppm!

  21. Iva Right

    I hate anything to do with the environment now thanks to these wankers!

  22. Muddy

    We have to depend on evidence, reasonable discussion and

    Sadly, I suspect that will not be enough, Rafe. How far have reasonableness and evidence taken us? I’m not claiming they should be disposed of, but that a parallel strategy to counter the more emotive effects of our enemy’s propaganda is also necessary. We have let ourselves be positioned as the evil, heartless deniers who wish to doom the planet, so of course we would say anything, wouldn’t we? Can people truly believe such subjects of psychosis and greed?

    What is required is not more of the same.

  23. Empire 5:5

    Muddy
    #3027477, posted on May 27, 2019 at 8:06 pm
    Look how the traditional definition of science has been undermined.
    It is possible to counter-mine.

    Sure, but it has to be defunded. We can longer afford as a nation, the extravagant cost of funding the emotional indulgences of irrational parasites. Real people drive cars, heat/cool houses and operate gadgets.

    A lot of folks make their keep from the big lie now days. They’ll need to find something useful to do, like feed the poor or clean up after the filthy minions they baked in the universities. For some, with perseverance and an ouch of luck, salvation will be found in a fossil fired future.

    Start your engines.

  24. mundi

    Go here and look up the number of new coal plants in planning/construction:
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

    People who think CO2 is going to go down, are delusional.

    The existance of 3billion people still burning wood/dung is enough to know its not going to happen.

  25. mem

    People that support spending money on climate change mitigation should ask themselves, why am I doing this? Even the Chief Scientist said it doesn’t matter what Australia does regarding climate change, it won’t make a difference in the long term. And let’s face it, the projected temperature changes for the whole world over the next century are infinitesimal . Far less than putting on a t shirt or walking from one spot in your garden to another. Like big shoulder pads, Bermuda pant suits and tie-dyed moo-moos , climate change mania will become a thing of the past. Don’t let it get to you and if you are an investor, make hay while the sun shines and pick up on those fossil resource shares that will take us through to the future.

  26. Empire 5:5

    We have to depend on evidence, reasonable discussion and a ratchet effect so when people get some understanding of the situation they will never slip back

    I won’t discourage a gentleman from any of that, but it won’t win the war.

    Knowledge of the genesis of the fraud and who is profiting now will crash the rort. We’re on the verge of the MSM completely losing control of the popular narrative. If the truth is declassified and carpetbaggers get the pen, thermogeddonism gets filed with flat earth.

    Other legitimate issues will fill the vacuum and discerning folk will continue to shop at farmers markets until affordable food replicators are a thing.

  27. Muddy

    Empire 5:5
    #3027595, posted on May 27, 2019 at 9:29 pm
    Sure, but it has to be defunded.

    I don’t disagree, however before anything can be defunded, we need to dissolve the political capital that can be made by supporting such institutions or organisations. If there are no votes to be gained by supporting, say, the ALPBC, then political interest in doing so will move on to something else.

    Let’s go back to the chair analogy: The task is to reduce the ability of the collective parts of the chair to function as a chair (and be identified as such). If the collective parts cannot perform the role for which they were purchased, who will value it? If two legs of a three-legged stool are broken, the remaining parts will likely be disposed of, or , at the very least, be shunted into a dusty corner out of the way. That’s a realistic goal for the ALPBC.

  28. Empire 5:5

    The existance of 3billion people still burning wood/dung is enough to know its not going to happen.

    Why aren’t DFAT and AusAid building clean coal generation for these wretched souls. Imagine the actual really air pollution the poor brown children must be forced to breath, all because self righteous severely educated tyrannists from wealthy countries want to loot their own peoples’ treasuries.

    Energy Justice Now!

  29. Empire 5:5

    I don’t disagree, however before anything can be defunded, we need to dissolve the political capital that can be made by supporting such institutions or organisations. If there are no votes to be gained by supporting, say, the ALPBC, then political interest in doing so will move on to something else.

    That’s the bureaucratic attrition method. We don’t have time for that. The chainsaw method has been successfully deployed on both agencies and entire policy platforms. That takes political capital too. Watch the overton window shift right when the left’s loony and growing flank splinters and crashes and old media no longer affirms belief of the masses.

    Funding of ABC suddenly becomes a straight equity issue. Nobody watches it? Why are we paying for it? Nobody reads Fairfax. We pay for that too when the ABC employs their lay offs. We pay twice? For what ? Nobody consumes it. Start your own Saturday paper. We’re giving the country radio stations to NFP licence applicants. Country people with the smarts to know what’s best for them. We pre-sold Kidz to The Wiggles to fund the deal desk. The rest is on the market. Knock yourselves out soy warriors. Make a bid.

    Defunding comes from the pen of the executive and the leveraging of the parliament. A bold leader could pull it off. Menzies could do it.

  30. Texas Jack

    Wake me when the climate warriors start clamouring for per-head carbon rationing. The punters will just love that! No more international travel. No more solar-free roofing. No more worrying about Greens invading the House. It’ll be a hoot!

  31. Rafe Champion

    How far have reasonableness and evidence taken us? I’m not claiming they should be disposed of, but that a parallel strategy to counter the more emotive effects of our enemy’s propaganda is also necessary.

    100%. We will have a mixed of every goddam thing that makes a difference.
    Photos of young Africans with lung disease, the waste disposal lakes at heavy metal processing plants, acres of tree stumps where the woodchips went to DRAX, old people in blankets in public libraries.

    We have the moral arguments on our side and the sympathy vote that goes with it, hardly played yet!

    That is the reason for my shift of the point of attack from the dollar cost to the moral issues of damage to people and the environment.

  32. Rafe Champion

    Forests of dead wind turbines, eagles hit by wind turbines …no shortage of powerful images!

  33. tombell

    If the virtue signalers will not consider the possibility of a scientific rebuttal of their cherished “beliefs” then we must make those signalers pariahs in the broader community by taking every opportunity to ram down their throats the consequences of their eco-cult. As pointed out above , there will be no shortage of graphic images to drive home the point. Most of the cultists are not for turning. But…. if more and more people just getting on with their lives become more skeptical (overtly or secretly!) it will eventually register – even with some of the political class who make the rules.

  34. Iampeter

    The PM did the right thing when he took a lump of coal into the House to make a point. But that was not a point to make in the final stretch of the race given that most people claim to have some kind of concern about the weather.

    The PM’s stunt made no sense since the Coalition is largely responsible for the challenges the coal industry is facing in this country.
    To even remotely be doing the “right thing” the PM would need to first begin by taking ownership for the environmentalist mess the conservatives have created in this country and explain what has suddenly changed that they are now opposing the green movement that they once led. Only then can we begin to take conservatives seriously on being anti-green.

    The biggest problem is the closed minds inside the Coalition party room.
    Does anyone have a list? And how many of them were Turnbull supporters who turfed Abbott?

    None of this started with Turbull. Abbott is FAR MORE of a green culprit in the Coalition. But the real culprit is Howard and until conservatives can address this, they can’t be taken seriously on this issue.

    The science is with us!
    Progress will be slow at first because we only have a critical mass in our own echo chambers.

    Science can’t help you win any political debates. Only actual understanding of political theory and its application can help you with that.
    You are as doomed on this issue as you are trying to fight socialists with economics.

  35. Rafe Champion

    Please pay attention. We am fighting them with pictures of dead eagles:)

  36. Rafe Champion

    OK a picture of a dead dove or nightingale would be more touching.
    I promise if I find a dead eagle lying around I will put it on John Howard’s doorstep. He lives just across the road from my sister-in-law.

  37. RobK

    A neglected area of wind turbine criticism is the wake of blade vortices. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12650-011-0112-z

    Visualization of the tip vortices in a wind turbine wake.
    Abstract

    In the present study, an experimental study was conducted to characterize the formation and the evolution of the helical tip vortices and turbulent flow structures in the wake of a horizontal axis wind turbine model placed in an atmospheric boundary layer wind. A high-resolution particle image velocimetry system was used to make detailed flow field measurements to quantify the time evolution of the helical tip vortices in relation to the position of the rotating turbine blades in order to elucidate the underlying physics associated with turbine power generation and fatigue loads acting on the wind turbines.

    Graphical abstract

    There is interference to the next turbine. There is mixing of air layers. There must be turbulence in the wake that would make it difficult for birds to fly in a normal manner.

  38. Iampeter

    Please pay attention. We am fighting them with pictures of dead eagles:)

    Then you’re just appealing to emotions, which is even worse because facts don’t care about your feelings.
    I know you’re trying to be funny, but neither science, nor appeals to emotion can answer any political question.
    Only political theory can do that. Until you have a clear position on what the proper function of government is and why, you have a show stopping problem in discussing this issue. Or any political issues.

    I promise if I find a dead eagle lying around I will put it on John Howard’s doorstep. He lives just across the road from my sister-in-law.

    Not sure what that will accomplish.
    My point with this stuff is that as someone who seems to be a Howard and Abbott supporter, your opposition to Turnbull makes no sense.
    Your opposition to environmentalist legislation also makes no sense.

    This contradiction is also a show stopping problem in discussing this issue.

  39. I’ve been campaigning against the whole AGW scam for over 20 years.
    I’ve had enough, not talking about it to anyone anymore.
    The world can learn the hard way or the other hard way.
    I don’t care.

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