Defining socialism in the modern world

Here is the original story: Socialism is losing its stigma thanks to Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez as a MAJORITY of American women age 18-54 would prefer socialism to living in a capitalist country. That story was replied to here: 55% Of Women Prefer Socialism To Capitalism. Here’s Why They’re Wrong. But what is of particular interest is the list of attributes being sought in the socialist system these women are seeking to have introduced, in descending order of approval, from 76% for the first through to 52% for the tenth.

  1. Universal healthcare (76 percent)
  2. Tuition-free education (72 percent)
  3. Living wage (68 percent)
  4. State-controlled economy (66 percent)
  5. State control and regulation of private property (61 percent)
  6. High taxes for the rich (60 percent)
  7. State-controlled media and communication (57 percent)
  8. Strong environmental regulations (56 percent)
  9. High public spending (55 percent)
  10. Government “democratizes” private businesses—that is, gives workers control over them—to the greatest extent possible (52 percent)

“State-controlled economy” pretty well defines socialism with 66 percent signing up for whatever it might mean in practice (for an answer see Venezuela). Goes very neatly with “State-controlled media and communication”. The full socialist box and dice. No stats are given on what men of the same age cohort prefer.

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61 Responses to Defining socialism in the modern world

  1. It would appear the larger portion of US wymminses want a sugar daddy, not a husband.

  2. Mother Lode

    MAJORITY of American women age 18-54 would prefer socialism to living in a capitalist country.

    They think you can make these warm-fuzzy changes and it does not affect anything else.

  3. RobK

    It’s a worry.
    What is “Tuition-free education “?
    Self help pamphlets?

  4. a happy little debunker

    The word free does not mean what they think it means.

  5. Mother Lode

    It would appear the larger portion of US wymminses want a sugar daddy, not a husband.

    Actually, it crossed my mind that a lot of these women, who have been told to eschew married life to prove they are the same as men, show that they actually do want what married life traditionally offered.

  6. Amused

    Disenfranchise women immediately!

  7. Percy Popinjay

    State-controlled economy

    Such a monstrosity could only ever be demanded by those who’ve never had the misfortune to exist under one.

    Idiots.

  8. steve

    this is why women should not be allowed to vote

  9. Grumbles

    It is sad, but it is not new.. 1 Samuel chapter 8

  10. ACTOldFart

    Gee whizz those wondeful pre-1989 socialist paradises like Romania, East Germany and Hungary really were super strong on environmental regulation

  11. Bruce in WA

    This is a pisstake, surely?

    No-one could possibly be that totally bereft of intelligence …

    State control and regulation of private property (61 percent)

    is an enduring nightmare of mine.

  12. Dr Faustus

    A very scary thing shows up in the Axios survey data.

    Only 37% of survey females think Venezuela is ‘socialist’ country and 43% think it lies somewhere in between ‘socialist’ and ‘capitalist’. And only 41% think that China is socialist.

    Luckily, Axios admits that the survey methodology is bullshit:

    This online survey is not based on a probability sample and therefore no estimate of theoretical sampling error can be calculated.

    Presumably they stood outside a Walmart offering donuts for answers.

  13. RobK

    Steve,
    I think you have misconstrued the survey to an extent by saying:

    But what is of particular interest is the list of attributes being sought in the socialist system these women are seeking to have introduced, in descending order of approval, from 76% for the first through to 55% for the tenth.

    Where as the list pertained to:

    When asked what constitutes a socialist political system, over 50 percent of people believed these policies made a country socialist:

    Universal healthcare (76 percent)……..

    Whilst it’s alarming that 55% approve of socialism, the list is about what they think defines socialism. I’d have expected higher values on the list as many would define an aspect of socialism, in my view.

  14. RobK

    I think the survey shows: the respondents have an ill defined concept of socialism, but a majority support it.
    Still a worry.

  15. I’ve met these people, low energy, well upholstered, low personal hygiene standards. The survey only mentions women, there would be a smaller percentage of men with the same view.

    What they don’t say is that their fervent wish would be a government that forced good looking people to have sex with them.

  16. Steve

    Off topic – quick question

    On the website is a picture of a of a man surrounded by helmeted soldiers. I’ve never seen it before. Does anyone know who the image is of and the significance of it?

  17. Slim Cognito

    No stats are given on what men of the same age cohort prefer

    I hope they prefer women who are not represented in this survey.

  18. duncanm

    RobK
    #3040194, posted on June 11, 2019 at 1:38 pm
    I think the survey shows: the respondents have an ill defined concept of socialism, but a majority support it.

    yup – there’s lots of ill-informed or people or just confused by the questions.

    One thing I do read from it – those who prefer to live in a capitalist country seem to udnerstand socialism better.

    Is “State control and regulation of private property” part of a socialist political system? (pp 30)

    Prefer capitalism – 74% yes
    Prefer socialism – 73% no

    Is “state controlled media” part of a socialist political system? (pp 51)
    Prefer capitalism – 71% yes
    Prefer socialism -64% no

    Is “state controlled media” part of a socialist political system? (pp 51)
    Prefer capitalism – 71% yes
    Prefer socialism -64% no

    Is a “state controlled economy” part of a socialist political system? (pp 66)
    Prefer capitalism – 76% yes
    Prefer socialism -50% no

  19. duncanm

    Steve
    #3040199, posted on June 11, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    Steve – check out the image URL – six day war

  20. RobK

    The survey said over all 40% (i.e.men and women all age) approved of socialism.
    Further;

    Axios took the unusual step of not releasing the data that the Harris Poll collected, not describing the poll’s methodology and margin of error, and not providing the wording of the question about socialism.

    So a complete waste of time.

  21. Behind Enemy Lines

    Defining socialism in the modern world
    Posted on 12:38 pm, June 11, 2019 by Steve Kates
    Here is the original story: Socialism is losing its stigma thanks to Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez as a MAJORITY of American women age 18-54 would prefer socialism to living in a capitalist country

    Please God, let them have their wish. Send them to Venezuela. All at once. And then give them all the socialism they’ve been begging for.

    Seriously, though, I don’t trust the stats and I don’t trust the press, but I get the most powerful sense that the times are a’changin’.

    Steve
    #3040199, posted on June 11, 2019 at 1:43 pm
    Off topic – quick question

    On the website is a picture of a of a man surrounded by helmeted soldiers. I’ve never seen it before. Does anyone know who the image is of and the significance of it?

    I’ve got a pretty fair clue but would rather let Sinc lay it out.

  22. Steve Kates

    Re the photo at the top of the page, which I did not choose but quite like now that I see what it is. Note the date which suggests it was purposefully chosen.
    `

    Paratroopers at the Western Wall is an iconic photograph taken on June 7, 1967, by David Rubinger. Shot from a low angle, the photograph depicts three Israeli paratroopers framed against the Western Wall in the Old City of Jerusalem, shortly after its recapture by Israeli forces in the Six-Day War.

  23. Roger

    a MAJORITY of American women age 18-54 would prefer socialism to living in a capitalist country. State control and regulation of private property (61 percent)

    I wonder if they’d still prefer socialism when the government partitions their suburban bungalow into flats and puts illegals and drug addicts in with them?

  24. Dr Fred Lenin

    During the recent euroelections , you could have drawn a line through Germay of voting actions ,the left and eurofascists did well in the West ,the anti open borders pro German right did well in the East. The failre of the socialists in the East would have nothing to do with the fact the East was occupied by soviet puppet socialists for fifty some years and the West hadnt had that horror inflicted on them ,the difference was like the difference between a mercedes and a trabant , we just escaped a trabant government recently ,mind you it was only replaced by scomos VW beetle a second hand one .

  25. One could be pedantic and say that a “State-controlled economy” is more fascist than socialist. Notwithstanding, many of the other items also would not look out of place in Nazi German or Fascist Italy.

    Of note is that freedom of speech, expression, conscience and association are absent as are the “reproductive rights” claims.

    Could it be that once they get their dreamed socialism/fascism, if they complain, then they may get the CFMMEU treatment.

  26. … if they complain, then they may get the CFMMEU treatment. The Victorian branch flavour that is.

  27. DB

    The first article says 40% of all respondents favoured socialism, so that implies just 25% of men favoured socialism (compared to 55% of women).
    The reason for the gender-difference is likely to be that many women — even a majority of women — live much of their lives in a pseudo-socialist state in which their parents and later their husbands provide for them rather than them providing for themselves.

  28. Speedbox

    …..only 41% think that China is socialist.

    Yes, I’ve noticed that. In conversation with work colleagues or others I would casually mention that China is socialist and receive blank stares then a quick “oh yes, of course”. It is usually my impression that they don’t ‘think’ of China in that way.

    Government “democratizes” private businesses—that is, gives workers control over them—to the greatest extent possible (52 percent)

    Christ! So, effective nationalisation and redistribution to the wukkers is ok?

    Most of those items mentioned above are straight out of the former USSR. I wonder whether those same women would recant if you said “sure, just like the USSR” when they answer the survey questions.

  29. Dr Fred Lenin

    The Chinese socialist fascists allow crony capitalism to save their asses, they realise they dont know how to make the aspirational masses richer but the capitalists do . The socialist fascist hitler did the same the cronies supported his rise ,and he repaid by creating a war economy ,many of them profited fom slave labour , building factories in concentration camps near the gas chambers ,when your slaves were worn out not far to go to get rid of them . Socialist fascist crony capitalism at work . Dont worry things have not changed much ,soros replacing I G Farben ,always gredy mongrels about o replace them .

  30. duncanm

    I also get the impression people are confused by the ‘that’s not true socialism’ belief.

    For many people, socialism is some fluffy ideal that has not been well defined, but sounds warm and comforting; the only way to break through this is point out all the failed ‘socialist’ states – especially the ones like Venezuela where people voted for the fluffy rabbits and ended with the wolves.

    You always get the wolves.

  31. The BigBlueCat

    My advice to those who think socialism is the answer for all of society’s ills … Venezuela is the place for you to be. Or China. Or Cuba. Or Laos. Or Vietnam. There are plenty of countries to choose from. So, if you love socialism so much and you really got to have it, you know where to go!

  32. I’ve said this numerous times on this blog. Women and children are predisposed to distributionist policies. It’s in their genes (not all not all not all. There is always outliers at the ends of the distribution curve).
    We can also add all the intellectuals who’ve never had to get dirt under their finger nails (almost all benefiting from some sort of redistribution) and girlie beta men, plus many in the 20 something age bracket who have not been allowed to grow up like they used to in previous generations.

    So then, when a society allows all these people into positions of power and authority, you slide into socialism QED.
    There is no way out of this (there is but is impossible in the current social climate). It doesn’t matter how many Trumps, Reagens or Thatchers come along. Once they’re gone, the slide into socialism will continue at pace.

  33. Iampeter

    Socialism is losing its stigma thanks to Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez as a MAJORITY of American women age 18-54 would prefer socialism to living in a capitalist country.

    Sanders and Cortez are not responsible for anything. They are just feeling comfortable to run more openly as socialists because no one is opposing them. They are a consequence of the times, not a cause.

    The cause of a resurgence of socialism is the resurgence of religiosity. Religious teachings of self sacrifice, especially those of Christianity in the West, form the original blueprint on which socialism would later be built.

    You can’t oppose socialism until you’re ready to oppose two thousand years of Christian teaching. No one is prepared to do that, so don’t be so surprised that socialism is making such large headway.

    Deep down, it’s what most people want.

  34. Rococo Liberal

    WHy do lefties change the language in a silly effort to make us think that one thing means another?
    WHo says that the US doesn’t have universal healthcare now? Anyone in the US, like anyone in any other Western country, has access to healthcare. What these lefties mean of course is healtcare funded by the State. As usual they conflate healthcare with the funding of health care. Bloody stupid, these lefties.

  35. None

    I’m not surprised that it’s stupid women who favour socialism more than men. Since the great sexual Revolution has failed them and they are left lonely and angry with not a man willing to look at them much less support them much less want them to mother their children they only have the state to look after them because they’re too fucken piss weak to look after themselves

  36. Tim Neilson

    Religious teachings of self sacrifice, especially those of Christianity in the West, form the original blueprint on which socialism would later be built.

    You can’t oppose socialism until you’re ready to oppose two thousand years of Christian teaching.

    You must despise volunteer surf lifesavers.

    They risk their lives, and sometimes lose their lives, for no reward whatsoever.

    Perhaps every time a lifesaver dies in the course of duty you should show up at the funeral and explain to the grieving family and friends what an idiot you think the deceased was.

  37. RobK

    You can’t oppose socialism until you’re ready to oppose two thousand years of Christian teaching.
    No Peter. Socialism is not the same as charity. An individual helping a fellow man from the goodness of his own heart is not the same as the State tending to the flock from cradle to grave, abrogating individual responsibility. Christians have a connection to their god on a personal basis. Charity is a personal thing. You on the other hand see only institutional rule or selfishness. Others have a bit more dimension in their lives.

  38. None

    In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

    11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

    14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

    St Paul to the Thessalonians. Nothing socialist about that.

  39. Roger

    Religious teachings of self sacrifice, especially those of Christianity in the West, form the original blueprint on which socialism would later be built.

    Nonsense of the first order.

  40. Roger

    “Do not steal” recognises the right to private property.

    Every socialist revolution breaks this commandment.

    And the communal sharing of the first Christians was voluntary, not coerced by state power.

  41. duncanm

    Religious teachings of self sacrifice, especially those of Christianity in the West, form the original blueprint on which socialism would later be built.

    nuts!

    Socialism is about sacrificing other people’s wealth (money, resources, labour, etc) – not your own voluntarily.

    Christian teachings give us the hippie commune, not the gulag.

  42. Howard Hill

    Sanders and Cortez are not responsible for anything. They are just feeling comfortable to run more openly as socialists because no one is opposing them. They are a consequence of the times, not a cause.

    Can’t argue with that, Iampeter. Right on the money and can be seen in these pages everyday.

    The cause of a resurgence of socialism is the resurgence of religiosity. Religious teachings of self sacrifice, especially those of Christianity in the West, form the original blueprint on which socialism would later be built.

    You can’t oppose socialism until you’re ready to oppose two thousand years of Christian teaching. No one is prepared to do that, so don’t be so surprised that socialism is making such large headway.

    Ah, sorry, Pete, but this is just pure bullshit and I’m not even religious.
    Western law was derived from these two thousand years of Christian teaching.
    And is why you have the right to post here at all, for now.

  43. Howard Hill

    Socialism is popular because parasitic bureaucrats have just about destroyed all means of pursuing life, liberty and happiness. So what to do? Beg for more free shit from the masters!

  44. 2dogs

    Can anyone explain the idea behind all these lefties using the water drop emoji in their twitter name?

  45. the not very bright Marcus

    “Purity of essence ” .. 2 dogs ?

  46. Leo G

    What is “Tuition-free education “?
    Self help pamphlets?

    Direct programming of cerebral cortex neurons.

  47. Crossie

    Living wage is a subjective thing, some are happy with a small amount while others want much more. If you define a living wage you will have to define what it should pay for. Some will think that it should be enough for a comfortable home, good food and clothes while others will insist it must also cover necessities such as cars and foreign travel, entertainments, latest technology …

  48. KaaBee

    Reads like the old East Germany to me.

  49. Nato

    Nice reference from Grumbles.
    vv 11-17 I’m going to curse you with the right wing of government. And I’m going to curse you with the left wing of government. And you’re going to pay taxes

  50. classical_hero

    I bet these same people would scream Nazi at anyone who disagrees. The irony is not lost on them for following Nazi party policies.

  51. JohnJJJ

    It’s a nesting thing.

  52. max

    The Apostles’ Creed speaks of God’s actions in history: the Creator who send His son Jesus Christ to earth, at a specific point in time, who died, rose from dead, and will return to judge men at the end of history.

    Such a creed affirms that God is the Creator and Finisher of history.

    He is sovereign and he is source of all law.

In non-Christian systems, the source of ethics and of law is the state; it is the polis, the empire or the kingdom.

    Western nations abandoned Gods limited and simple laws for humanist unlimited laws and regulations.

  53. Mitchell Porter

    After your tuition-free education, you catch the vehicle-free transportation home to your roofing-free shelter and engage in your nutrition-free diet while watching content-free entertainment.

  54. Iampeter

    Western nations abandoned Gods limited and simple laws for humanist unlimited laws and regulations.

    That’s the same thing.
    Either you submit to God or you submit to the state. These are not alternatives.

    The actual alternative to authoritarianism of both secular and religious variety is rights protecting government.

    You need to discover these concepts if you want to even start opposing socialism.

  55. Nob

    More people spending longer at uni having fewer kids and having them later = delayed maturity = more likes for socialism.

  56. Tim Neilson

    Iampeter
    #3040947, posted on June 12, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    You really do despise volunteer surf lifesavers don’t you.

    Poor old Iamashiteater, totally unable to understand the difference between people being persuaded as to the truth of certain moral precepts (and then voluntarily attempting to live by them) and coercion by the force of government.

  57. John A

    To Iampeter (who really isn’t Peter’s bootlace, as I have said before)

    You can’t oppose socialism until you’re ready to oppose two thousand years of Christian teaching.

    Go on, I dare you to list the teachings which should be opposed.

    And you had better supply good Biblical references.

  58. Iampeter

    Go on, I dare you to list the teachings which should be opposed.
    And you had better supply good Biblical references.

    Christianity teaches that sacrificing the individual for a greater good is moral.
    The Bible is replete with this.
    It’s holiest symbol is literal human sacrifice.

    Well, if you take that seriously then socialism or something similar is what you’re going to get.
    You cannot support capitalism based on this kind of ethical system.

    I’m not going to go through the bible with you point by point so you can pretend what I’ve just said isn’t true, because you stubbornly refuse to think and connect some pretty obvious dots.

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