This is going to be really interesting to watch

Catholic Church rejects use of gender identity theory in education

In a new document aimed at Catholic schools, the Church has rejected the idea that people should be free to choose their gender.

….

The Vatican released a 30-page document on Monday, titled “Male and Female he created them,” which rejected the idea that people can change their gender. The document said that the notion of gender being determined by personal feelings rather than biology was an attempt to “annihilate nature.”

The Australian Human Rights Commission will have resources at the ready.

This will be interesting to watch oh yes.

Can someone please oh please ask Anthony Albanese and Kristina Kenneally their thoughts on this.

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45 Responses to This is going to be really interesting to watch

  1. stackja

    Can someone please oh please ask Anthony Albanese and Kristina Kenneally their thoughts on this.

    Fluid?

  2. Roger

    Can someone please oh please ask Anthony Albanese and Kristina Kenneally their thoughts on this.

    I’m more interested in the response of Catholic schools.

    I suspect the bishops will have a fight on their hands on this. Do they have the ticker to take the schools on?

  3. Old School Conservative

    Gender or sex?
    According to “On the Basis of Sex” it was a typist who alerted Bader-Ginsberg to the fact that “sex” was jumping off every page and suggested “gender” be inserted.

  4. BoyfromTottenham

    Our ‘sex’ (male, female, other) is determined by our chromosones, so it cannot be altered post-conception. ‘Gender’ is a social construct, and it can be (from a choice of at least 57 varieties, apparently) whatever the individual ‘believes’ or ‘feels’ their ‘sexual orientation’ to be. Unfortunately, even the Pope seems not to understand the difference! Maybe he is just coy about saying the word ‘sex’ and prefers the word ‘gender’ – oh dear.

  5. max

    “he who pays the piper calls the tune”

    If Catholic schools taking or receiving any money from government they will need to follow Government orders.

  6. mem

    stackja
    #3040767, posted on June 12, 2019 at 11:02 am

    Can someone please oh please ask Anthony Albanese and Kristina Kenneally their thoughts on this.

    I would hazard a guess that they will have a bob each way!

  7. “Can someone please oh please ask Anthony Albanese and Kristina Kenneally their thoughts on this.”

    I strongly suspect that their thoughts on gender identity would be very similar to what their thoughts are on SSM, homosexuality, same sex couples adopting and abortion….both Albanese and Keneally would be in favour of it and both would toe the party and progressive line…not the Vatican line. Neither are Catholic in the traditional sense of the word….their true ideologies are leftism and progressiveness.

  8. dover_beach

    Our ‘sex’ (male, female, other) is determined by our chromosones, so it cannot be altered post-conception. ‘Gender’ is a social construct, and it can be (from a choice of at least 57 varieties, apparently) whatever the individual ‘believes’ or ‘feels’ their ‘sexual orientation’ to be.

    If you look at the literature on this topic there is no such clear distinction, and the claim is that sex itself is also a ‘social construct’, not merely gender. ‘Gender’ also has a curious history here as it is a term brought over from grammar by the charlatan and sexologist, John Money.

  9. dover_beach

    You just have to consider the furore over trans-sexualism to understand that what is at issue is the erasure of sex as a natural destination.

  10. Iva Right

    I am sure the response from the media and running scared politicians will be in an exact inverse proportion to the almost non existent percentage of the population that claim to be not normal in one form or another. Once again the 99% will be required to pretend that they agree with and support the LBQTI whatever version of gender if they want to keep their jobs/club memberships/professional ties/woke friends etc. how about for once, the political class stands up for the normal, silent majority – guess what? It can actually win an election!

  11. Dr Fred Lenin

    Reintroduce “auto da fe “ for commnist heretics ,,do it in city squares charge admission ,bet you would get a big crowd . Public hangings used to attract big rowds . Have a good family day out watching the baddies of society being disposed of .

  12. Jock

    I dont have a problem with transgender folk. But I do have a problem with being forced/coerced into joining into their delusions/dreams/mental issues over their gender. I have a right surely to think what I like about this subject.

    Also I have a problem if said 100kg transgender “woman” wants to use the same toilets as my wife and thirteen year old daughter. There. Ive said it. Looks like Im on the same side as the Catholic Church. But I think my old Wee Free Church of Scotland granny would be on my side.

  13. alan sivkoff

    perhaps the Pope may now rein in some of his more socialist policies?

  14. Roger

    I have a right surely to think what I like about this subject.

    Not for long if Prog-Lefties have their way.

    First they ask for toleration.

    Then for equality.

    Finally, they purge society (or public life, at least) of dissenters.

  15. BoyfromTottenham

    dover_beach – is the ‘literature’ to which you are referring mainly ‘cultural Marxism’ type propaganda about ‘gender’, or serious science? I truly doubt that qualified practitioners of the latter would agree that a person’s ‘sex’ (i.e. whether a person is sexually, in the reproductive sense, male, female, or in few cases genetically incapable of reproduction for some reason) is a ‘social construct’. What a weird world we live in!

  16. Mark M

    Carry on up the cloister!

  17. dover_beach

    BoyfromT, I’m talking about the literature on sex and gender. I wouldn’t hang my hat on the ‘serious science’, either, because they share many of the premises of the junk variety too.

  18. I find it hard to believe some one in the Catholic Church finally grew a pair.

  19. Tim Neilson

    Carry on up the cloister!

    Excellent.

    Can you imagine what the Carry On gang would have done with the concept of gender fluidity?

  20. Chris M

    The Pope could have concluded by appealing for more funding for mental health.

    He’s a commo dumb-ass but occasionally his speech writers craftily sneak some sense past him.

  21. Enoch Root

    “The Vatican’s theology on gender is deficient and flawed,” the New Ways Ministry said. “It relies on categories of male and female that were shaped centuries ago in oppressive and repressive cultures.”

    What is a New Ways Ministry? Is this something they have in Germany?

  22. Ian

    Max, what do you mean “government money”? It’s taxpayer money. And if the Catholic system isn’t oh-so-generously given enough taxpayer money to operate and decides to close down then an awful lot more dosh will be needed than at present to run the entire education system. Ian 6333

  23. the sting

    Up until the 1970’s gender dysphoria was regarded as a mental illness , then the Association ?? of Psychologists in the USA had a vote and decided that it would not be . I am not sure how close the vote was .

  24. Tim Neilson

    Max, what do you mean “government money”? It’s taxpayer money. And if the Catholic system isn’t oh-so-generously given enough taxpayer money to operate and decides to close down then an awful lot more dosh will be needed than at present to run the entire education system. Ian 6333

    That’s true Ian.

    But I’m sure Max wasn’t implying that taxpayer-funded bullying is a good thing. He was just pointing out the big government tax/spend churn does give big government a lever which they use ruthlessly. Past experience says that the church will fold rather than go on strike – like when Victorian Labor forced Catholic hospitals to act as a referral service for abortion clinics.

  25. Dr Fred Lenin

    Heard an interview with Trump ,asked about bannig transgenderits from armed forces ,replied ,”the operation costs $_200,000 and then they are on serious ostly drugs for life ,and the armed firces have a No Drugs policy “.
    Brought back memories i]of Vietnam ,wher they reckon the US conscripts were stoned all the time ,we can ask numbers ,he knows all about Vietnam ,ask him . Change in policy there innit ?

  26. None

    I just saw a headline and a lead at The Daily Telegraph saying that no one should be surprised at the Catholics trying to ostracise gay and lesbian children. I want you to consider the phrase “gay and lesbian children” and everything that implies. F****** sickos. People need to learn to keep the hands off other people’s children.

  27. The BigBlueCat

    I think private education providers have every right to say what their teaching is when it comes to sex, gender and sexuality. The consumers of their services (eg. parents) can make their own conclusions regarding if that meets their requirements.

    The real problems come when the community is asked to participate in OPD (Other People’s Delusions) when it comes to sex, gender and sexuality. Trans-genderism, it seems, doesn’t solve the individual’s problems when you note the suicide rate post-op remains at 40% (compared to the pre-op suicide rate). But of course, the hard-left are more interested in enforcing their conformity onto others.

  28. The BigBlueCat

    max
    #3040800, posted on June 12, 2019 at 11:38 am
    “he who pays the piper calls the tune”

    If Catholic schools taking or receiving any money from government they will need to follow Government orders.

    Wouldn’t that be a fundamental breach of freedom of religion? We should be mighty concerned about government dictating to religious schools what can and can’t be taught, irrespective of the funding (which in theory at least is an equitable distribution across all student whatever school they attend).

  29. Cold-Hands

    Catholic Girls schools in particular, will find it difficult to teach this doctrine as many have already succumbed to the trendy Gender-fluid ideology. Santa Sabina in Sydney is just the tip of the iceberg, as are the Qld schools wishing to use “inclusive language” in their prayers & scripture.
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/03/santa-sabina-schools-religious-revolution/

  30. None

    So people now want to tell us that the government wants to make genderfluid Theory mandatory in schools or else has made it compulsory under the national curriculum and tied it to funding. If that is the case please say it out loud & Clear and let’s see how far that gets you.

  31. Cold-Hands

    Kristina Keneally has already signalled her stance on this issue- the “Bible” on which she was sworn into office as a senator was The New Testament and Psalms: An Inclusive Version.

    http://www.bible-researcher.com/ntpiv.html

  32. JohnJJJ

    It is just the beginning. The post modern West has now come up against belief. No amount of ‘values’ ‘rights’ ‘equality’ or the rest of the vague substitutes for ethics and morality will stand against belief.

  33. Stephen

    Its pretty simple – XX chromosones, you are female. XY you are male.
    No amount of physical manipulation will change that fact.

  34. Chrism

    that beacon of equality and good governance that is the Catholic church has information to share about how it views gender : woo hoo : another PR victory for that institution that keeps kicking goals, not gaols or gals mind

  35. Chrism

    Stephen #3041062 : and XXY is ? and XXY is ? and XO is? and indeterminate genitalia is? is congenital androgen insensitivity is? and quevedoces are?
    please, as that red haired lady says, explain

  36. Colonel Crispin Berka

    This whole non-debate is a case of people talking past each other by having different meanings for the same word.

    The only way the Vatican opinion could be interpreted without it being completely pants-on-head imbecilic is that they think the word “sex” means only the doing of sex, whereas “gender” means the state of being male or female.
    The rest of us believe the word sex means either the being or the doing of sex as determined by the communication context, and we take gender as the social and psychological consequences of believing you are a particular sex.

    If they are really trying to say that the typical mannerisms, social roles, and self-image of being a sex are not psycho-social constructs then they are imbeciles. The very fact that anyone anywhere has a notion of their gender different from the sex-assigned convention is the proof that sex is biological and gender is not.

  37. Leo G

    “Male and Female he created them,” which rejected the idea that people can change their gender.

    The Genesis 1 quote implies that male and female were created before the creation of woman and that woman was created as a female. An instance of gender choosing the person, perhaps?

  38. max

    Ian
    #3040917, posted on June 12, 2019 at 3:06 pm
    Max, what do you mean “government money”? It’s taxpayer money.

    no all taxpayers are Christians, so they have right to complain and forbid teaching they do not like.

  39. max

    The BigBlueCat
    #3040972, posted on June 12, 2019 at 4:47 pm
    Wouldn’t that be a fundamental breach of freedom of religion?

    I can not answer that I am not layer.

    but:
    He who funds education establishes the content of education as well as its pedagogy: theory of learning.

  40. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    There are biological sex chromosomal anomalies in humans but they are relatively rare as are faulty sexual reproductive organs developed in the embryo and foetus. The key word is ‘faulty’, i e not as scripted by evolution. Assisting people so afflicted in the manner they prefer is highly desirable. There may be other ways in which people feel ‘wrongly’ placed reproductively (as homosexual, for instance), and these ways plus the myriad of other personal gender perceptions might have some subtle biological underpinning or none at all – the science is unsettled on that. Social factors are highly relevant here.

    Forcing the majority to see themselves as ‘flexible’ is plainly irrational when they are not, and also opens the door to purely social encouragement of mentally unstable people to believe that a new form of self-definition may assist them when there is no reason to believe they have any biological need for it.

    Children and teenagers certainly do not need to be confused over sexual variability that exists in reality in so few people. In many matters young people are very subject to unsuitable influences, and this would be one of them.. They may reach their own conclusions once well past puberty.

  41. The BigBlueCat

    Max, when it comes to private schools, parents are also funding the education, often more per student than the government support. By their funding, don’t the parents have more right to say what can and can’t be taught in those schools (according to your way of thinking)?

  42. dover_beach

    As I said above: I wouldn’t hang my hat on the ‘serious science’, either, because they share many of the premises of the junk variety too. Thanks, Chrism, for proving my point:

    and XXY is ? and XXY is ? and XO is? and indeterminate genitalia is? is congenital androgen insensitivity is? and quevedoces are?
    please, as that red haired lady says, explain

    What they are are departures from the normal case re the male and female organism, and are properly understood as disorders.

  43. max

    The BigBlueCat
    #3041447, posted on June 13, 2019 at 7:54 am
    Max, when it comes to private schools, parents are also funding the education, often more per student than the government support. By their funding, don’t the parents have more right to say what can and can’t be taught in those schools (according to your way of thinking)?

    If I pay; I choose school, curriculum and teacher and I can fire teacher or change school

    If you pay only percent, than you can not have that say.

  44. The BigBlueCat

    max
    #3041631, posted on June 13, 2019 at 12:51 pm

    If I pay; I choose school, curriculum and teacher and I can fire teacher or change school

    If you pay only percent, than you can not have that say.

    If I pay 150% more than the government, are you telling me I don’t get a say? Are you telling me we all should just bend to the government’s will when it comes to the education of our children because “they pay”? That is seriously stuffed thinking! Never forget, we pay the government via our taxes … they should be working for us! In the US they say “Government of the people, by the people, for the people” … a lot to be said for that!

  45. Zatara

    He who funds education establishes the content of education as well as its pedagogy: theory of learning.

    Do Madrasahs receive Australian public funding? Because I’m pretty sure they reject the idea that people should be free to choose their gender.

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