The second debate live blog

This time from Washington where reading the local press is truly a hallucinatory experience. Front page, WP: “Amid squabbles, a consensus: More government activism”. If you think they think that’s a bad thing, you should read the rest of the paper. Anyway, no doubt more softballs for the ten Dems on stage tonight. From 11:00 am Melbourne time.

Begin now.

Government benefits. Will taxes go up and how will you sell that. Bernie Sanders. “Time for real change” Must have a single payer system. Education is the future. Free tuition paid for a tax on Wall Street. Will you raise taxes for the middle class. Will pay more taxes but less for health care.

Biden. We have to return dignity is returned to the middle class. We have enormous inequality. Must fix.

Sen Harris, how do we pay for this? Where was this question asked of Donald Trump. Rules are in favour of the rich. Going to provide a $500 tax credit.

Hickenlooper. We must specifically deny we are socialists. Cannot eliminate private health insurance. I’ve done this.

On and on.

Buttiegieg. Free college for low and middle class income earners. Need to raise the minimum wage to help those who didn’t go to college.

Yang: how will you give everyone billions of dollars every year. VAT and via having a mentally healthier country.
H
Q: $1000 a month and a VAT? Yang: Would increase spending power of 94% of the country.

Stawell: “Pass the torch”. A quote from Biden.

Biden: Everybody needs an education. Focus on schools in distress. Free community college. No one under $25,000 pa does not have to repay debt.

General commotion.

Bernie: Must take on the big money interests.

Sen Harris. “America does not want a food fight. They want to have food on the table. In our America no one should have to work at more than one job.

Health Care. Abolish private health insurance to have a singleton’s payer district. Who would? Sen Gillebrand and Sanders.

Buttigieg. Medicare for all who want it.

Where do we go from Obamacare – Biden asked. Tells an anecdote. Must build on Obamacare. Make sure everyone has an option. People right now.

Sanders. Want to scrap insurance. Answer: Canada does it. Aim is to do the same. How it will be done. We will have Medicare for all when everyone tells the insurance companies they have had enough of a profit-driven system.

Sen. Bennett: Families need this choice. We can have medicare for those who want it.

Sanders. We will stop the greed of the insurance companies.

Sen Harris. Tells a story about how insurance companies rob families.

All would provide health care for undocumented immigrants.

Buttigieg: This is not a hand-out. We should not have undocumented immigrants. They also pay taxes.

Biden: Must provide cover to everyone. They are contributing to the economy. We can deal with insurance companies by putting some of these insurance company execs in jail.

Move to an ad.

Migrant children are being apprehended. What would you do, Sen Harris. She will reinstate DACA. Meaningful process to assess refugee status. No locking people up. Why would some mother bring her child across America? Let them in. Will applause.

Hickenlooper. Bring them in. Reform ICE. Address the whole needs of these migrants.

Williamson: We open our hearts to the stranger.

Gillibrand: Trump has torn the moral fabric of our nation.

Decriminalisation of border.

Buttigieg: Accuses Christians of being unChristian.

Biden: We would reunite families. Trump is outrageous.

Should an undocumented migrant be deported. Biden: only if they have committed a crime. Those who see asylum, we should bring them in. Undocumented migrants should NOT be deported.

Sanders: Must look at the circumstances of why they are leaving. Need to have a meeting of Central American leaders.

Stawell and Harris. Should not deport. Harris runs on and on.

Trade. Greatest geopolitical threat. How would you deal with China.

Bennet: Russia is our greatest threat. Goes on a tirade on border security.

Yang: Russia is our greatest threat.

Buttigieg: China is a major threat. Their authoritarian system is being held up as a model.

More ads.

Race and community relations. Buttigieg: we are trying to fix the problem, until we move policing our from the systemic racism that plagues it.

Hickenlooper. Why doesn’t every city have accountability?

Sen Harris: An issue that is not being discussed honestly. But Biden is a friend of former Senators who were racists. Cannot just be an intellectual debate. [Wild applause]

Biden: I have stood up against racism. Was Obama’s VP. Supported bussing. [Kamala Harris attacks Biden directly.] Defends himself.

Sanders: We encourage diversity, but we also have to ask something else. Diversity is not enough. Must stand up to the special interests.

Gillibrand: Washington is being run by the special interests.

Will gridlock disappear if Dem Pres? Bennet: No, must also win the Senate. Need to root out corruption.

Biden: I was able to get bi-partisan agreement on various measures.

Bennet attacks Biden. Gillibrand joins in about the corruption in Washington (she’s a senator!!!).

Supreme Court and abortion. Sanders: politicians should not affect a women’s right to choose. Need to fix the courts. Plus Medicare for All gives women automatic right to abortion.

Gillibrand: Rant, rant, rant. No applause.

Climate change. Sen Harris: An existential threat to our existence. Support Green New Deal. Rant, rant, rant.

Buttigieg: Need to start adapting right away.

Hickenlooper. Share the urgency. Socialism is however not the solution. Working with the oil and gas industries. China is the worst polluter.

Biden. We drove down the price of renewables. Aims to have a 100% green automobile economy by 2030.

Sanders: We have 12 years. The future of the planet etc etc etc.

First priority? Lists of this and that.

Ads. (Thankfully. These people are insane.)

Guns. Buy-Back. Stawell – “If we can but save a single life”. “We must be a nation that loves our children more than we love our guns.”

Sanders: Need comprehensive gun reform.

Harris: Give Congress 100 days and will ban by exec order ….

Buttigieg: Worst part of being a mayor is dealing with the violence. Weapons have no place in American cities.

Biden: Have a record of bringing in gun control.

International leadership. Rant, rant, rant answers.

First international repair job? Irrelevant rubbish from each of them.

Asking Biden about foreign policy. He voted for Iraq War so how can he be trusted? Long answer – no applause.

Sanders: This and that but prevent a war with Iraq priority.

More ads.

Final 45-second case.

Stalwell: ??

Williamson: Wants to “harness love for political purposes”.

Bennett: Build a new era of ???

Hickenlooper: Must not turn towards socialism.

Gillibrand: “I will take on the fights no one else will.”

Yang: Only question is who can beat Donald Trump. It’s me.

Harris: Need to prosecute the case against PDT. She has “the 3:00 am agenda, to deal with the things that keep Americans awake at 3:00 in the morning.

Buttigieg: A new generation philosophy.

Sanders: Take on Wall Street and greedy industry.

Biden: Restore the soul of America. Restore the backbone. There is not a single thing we cannot do if we stand together.

And so it ends. Incoherent and inane. Shockingly shallow.

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44 Responses to The second debate live blog

  1. mh

    Michael Moore
    @MMFlint
    My headline: “Democratic Candidates Jostle to Out-Bernie Bernie at Miami Debate.” This was the first time in my life I’ve watched Democrats fight to be more progressive than the other Dems. The old Dem Party hopefully is dead & this one must appeal to youth, ppl of color & women.
    1:52 PM · Jun 27, 2019

  2. JohnJJJ

    We need to wager of who can look the most concerned. My money is on Bernie as he combines the Trotsky envy with anger on behalf of the all the poor.
    I’ll bet there will be 25 hook finger points from Bernie.

  3. Lilliana

    Michael Moore
    @MMFlint
    My headline: “Democratic Candidates Jostle to Out-Bernie Bernie at Miami Debate.” This was the first time in my life I’ve watched Democrats fight to be more progressive than the other Dems. The old Dem Party hopefully is dead & this one must appeal to youth, ppl of color & women.
    1:52 PM · Jun 27, 2019

    Why?

    He is crazier than I thought.

  4. Muddy

    It would be more convincing if they all wore matching uniforms, along with badges of rank (swagger sticks optional). Respect for authority comes after a display of authority.

  5. feelthebern

    No tie Yang.
    Winner winner, chicken dinner.

  6. Dr Fred Lenin

    Love it how saint bernie is so concerned with the “poor” ,like all socialists he knows bugger all about being “poor”,but hes very concerned about it . He writes about it in the back seat of his chauffer driven limo ,paid for by taxpayers, on the way to his luxury home in a non poor suburb.
    That stupid nong AOC complains about the poor taxpayer funded salary she gets as a congressperson ? Immpossible to live on it says, barmaids in New York must be really good.
    The Nomenklatura are not dead , they still alive in socialist politics .

  7. Roger

    Why?

    To ride the demographic train to electoral success.

  8. Bruce of Newcastle

    Front page, WP

    WaPo and NYT are a crime against trees. Parrots will have to hold it in, as none of them would sully their behinds by crapping on those papers.

    As for the debate, this headline says everything:

    First poll has Tulsi Gabbard as the shock winner of the first Democratic debate and Beto O’Rourke as the clear loser

    How many Dems would even know who she is? If you added a none-of-the-above option to the poll I suspect Mr Nunov Themm (™ to MV) would’ve won hands down.

  9. Bruce of Newcastle

    On and on.

    Hehe…current Liberty Quote:

    Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
    — Winston Churchill

    And those few were the ones at the top of the social justice victimology rankings.

  10. mh

    Roger
    #3064700, posted on June 28, 2019 at 11:05 am
    Why?

    To ride the demographic train to electoral success.

    Young people, blacks and women still want jobs. I’m expecting Dems to lose big time with an ultra progressive agenda.

  11. Roger

    Young people, blacks and women still want jobs. I’m expecting Dems to lose big time with an ultra progressive agenda.

    Yes; I was describing his lazy way of thinking.

  12. Percy Popinjay

    Single payer health care: An individual who accesses the health system pays for the cost of the services they receive (i.e. they are the “single payer”).

    Of course, the definition these utter morons use means the complete opposite – i.e. taxpayers foot the bill and the mendicant abusing the system “pays nothing”.

  13. Percy Popinjay

    Beto O’Rourke as the clear loser

    Poor ol’ Beta will have to seek solace in his magic mushrooms and subsequent Vogon inspired poetry.

  14. Lilliana

    Why?
    To ride the demographic train to electoral success

    .

    Perhaps it will work with the young – seems to be a lot of braindead minions in that group. But not sure that the leftist ideas will work with the other groups given many ‘ppl of color’ (who makes these phrases up?) and women don’t give a f….. about progressive issues, and are just as ‘aspirational’ ( dare I use that word) as white blokes.

  15. Tom

    Because they live in a fantasy world, November 3, 2020, will be a rerun of November 8, 2016 — an NPC nightmare created by news media that no longer reports news and opinion polls designed to be anti-Trump propaganda.

    Not one Democrat presidential candidate has even been asked about the crisis on the southern border, even though immigration is one of the electorate’s greatest concerns, because the media insists the border crisis has been manufactured by Trump.

    The greatest single cause of the hyper-polarisation of America is that the news media is feeding the population endless truckloads of anti-Trump bullshit 24/7, while ignoring their real concerns.

    Politics 101 is saying stuff that’ll get you elected. No-one in the Democrat field is even interested: they’re transfixed by virtue-signalling identity politics that appeals to teenagers cocooned in an undergraduate gender studies degree. Middle America is another planet.

  16. Tom

    Because they live in a fantasy world, November 3, 2020, will be a rerun of November 8, 2016 — an NPC nightmare created by news media that no longer reports news and polls that are designed to be anti-Trump propaganda.

    Not one Democrat presidential candidate has even been asked about the crisis on the southern border, even though immigration is one of the electorate’s greatest concerns, because the media insists the border crisis has been manufactured by Trump.

    The greatest single cause of the hyper-polarisation of America is that the news media is feeding the population endless truckloads of anti-Trump bullshit 24/7, while ignoring their real concerns.

    Politics 101 is saying stuff that’ll get you elected. No-one in the Democrat field is even interested: they’re transfixed by virtue-signalling identity politics that appeals to teenagers cocooned in an undergraduate gender studies degree. Middle America is another planet.

  17. Tom

    Because they live in a fantasy world, November 3, 2020, will be a rerun of November 8, 2016 — an NPC nightmare created by news media that no longer reports news and polls that are designed to be anti-Trump propaganda.

    Not one Democrat presidential candidate has even been asked about the crisis on the southern border, even though immigration is one of the electorate’s greatest concerns, because the media insists the border crisis has been manufactured by Trump.

    The greatest single cause of the hyper-polarisation of America is that the news media is feeding the population endless truckloads of anti-Trump bullshit 24/7, while ignoring their real concerns.

    Politics 101 is saying stuff that’ll get you elected. No-one in the Democrat field is even interested: they’re transfixed by virtue-signalling identity politics that appeals to teenagers cocooned in an undergraduate gender studies degree. Middle America is another planet.

  18. Mother Lode

    I love how they are all issuing the clarion call to take on the powerful insurance companies, the rich, etc.

    The most powerful organisation is the government, for the peak position of which they are all desperately jockeying.

    And their plans, all of them, is that if they can get to the most powerful position in the most powerful organisation in the country, they will increase its power.

    Because da peeple must be protected from the powerful.

    It’s a powerful message.

  19. Tom

    Because they live in a fantasy world, November 3, 2020, will be a rerun of November 8, 2016 — an NPC nightmare created by news media that no longer reports news and polls that are designed to be anti-Trump propaganda.

    Not one Democrat presidential candidate has even been asked about the crisis on the southern border, even though immigration is one of the electorate’s greatest concerns, because the media insists the border crisis has been manufactured by Trump.

    The greatest single cause of the hyper-polarisation of America is that the news media is feeding the population endless truckloads of anti-Trump bullshit 24/7, while ignoring their real concerns.

    Politics 101 is saying stuff that’ll get you elected. No-one in the Democrat field is even interested: they’re transfixed by virtue-signalling identity politics that appeals to teenagers cocooned in an undergraduate gender studies degree. Middle America is another planet.

  20. Mother Lode

    First poll has Tulsi Gabbard as the shock winner of the first Democratic debate and Beto O’Rourke as the clear loser

    From Beto to Omego.

  21. Tom

    Because they live in a fantasy world, November 3, 2020, will be a rerun of November 8, 2016 — an NPC nightmare created by news media that no longer reports news and polls that are designed to be anti-Trump propaganda.

    Not one Democrat presidential candidate has even been asked about the crisis on the southern border, even though immigration is one of the electorate’s greatest concerns, because the media insists the border crisis has been manufactured by Trump.

    The greatest single cause of the hyper-polarisation of America is that the news media is feeding the population endless truckloads of anti-Trump bullshit 24/7, while ignoring their real concerns.

    Politics 101 is saying stuff that’ll get you elected. No-one in the Democrat field is even interested: they’re transfixed by virtue-signalling identity politics that appeals to teenagers cocooned in an undergraduate gender studies degree. Middle America is another planet.

  22. Mother Lode

    Hehe…current Liberty Quote:

    Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
    — Winston Churchill

    The Democrats seem to have tweaked it a bit.

    Never in the field of human conflict* was so much owed to so many by so few.

    *Bearing in mind that progressive ideology is grounded in the idea of conflict – class, race, gender etc.

  23. Tom

    Weird. A four-paragraph post disappears into the ether, without even landing in the moderation queue. No rude words, no problem with my ID — just phtttttttttttt.

  24. Tom

    Just watching coverage from the “spin room” of the second debate. It’s like a telecast from outer space:

    Politics 101 is saying stuff that’ll get you elected. No-one in the Democrat field is even interested: they’re transfixed by virtue-signalling identity politics that appeals to teenagers cocooned in an undergraduate gender studies degree. Middle America is another planet.

    Fox News is the only cable network talking to the mainstream American middle class outside LAX and NYC. CNN and MSNBC are for coastal Democratic Party activists.

  25. Lilliana

    Tom
    #3064797, posted on June 28, 2019 at 12:42 pm
    Weird. A four-paragraph post disappears into the ether, without even landing in the moderation queue. No rude words, no problem with my ID — just phtttttttttttt.

    That’s happened to me as well. I put it down to clicking out to the website too quickly after hitting ‘Post Comment’.

  26. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Tom

    It has gone berserk. There is no explanation other than big tech doesn’t like some things being said.

  27. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    I still reckon Harris and Hassan are the machine’s ticket, but surely Gabbard and Yang just want to be known for 2024?

    Given the way the left is imploding now, who seriously reckons they will win next year?

    Imagine the personal grief if you won the nomination for 2020 but did not get it in 2024.

    You might say 2016 and 2024. Heh.

  28. Rob MW

    Good god, it’s like the second coming in the life of Brian. The virtue of irrationality.

  29. Angus Black

    And so it ends. Incoherent and inane. Shockingly shallow.

    Could almost be Australia.

  30. Lilliana

    And so it ends. Incoherent and inane. Shockingly shallow.

    Could almost be Australia.

    Sad but true.

  31. All these people and the Democrat leadership know that none of them have a chance against Trump in 2020.
    This whole thing is an exercise in collecting funds and voter data for the 2024 race for which the Demonrats have a better chance.

    None of these people may even get the nomination. Maybe a dark horse is waiting in the wings to swoop in after avoiding the sunlight of these farcical debates.
    I hear The Kenyan and his husband are visiting that actor bloke with the rat faced ‘Uman Right Lawyer’ wife in Lake Cuomo, what’s his name? Ahh yes George Clooney.
    If you can get good odds, put 10 bucks on Clooney for the Demonrat nomination.

  32. nfw

    Why was nobody offering a block of flats? And a bridge? The bridge is always a winner if you throw a watch in. I liked the part about locking up insurance company execs. Surely if everything is nationalised they will all be working for the good of everybody and hence jails will be abolished….in lieu of firing squads, the socialist answer to all problems.

  33. Dr Fred Lenin

    Waste of time comrades ,the owners of the decromats will have their puppet ready ,like they had the half black from Chicago to take over, you dont think koch ,soros and the other billionaire”socialists are going to give up control of their party ? They screwed the communist sanders up to put up the useless, greedy , incompetent hilarity ,she was bought and paid for ,their party aparat didnt bring enough voters back from the dead to get her there ,thats why they need more illegals to get “balance “_ into the voting pattern.
    Never mind locking up insurance executives ,there are far ore deserving cases than them .

  34. billie

    who spat the most?

    who spat the furthest?

    it was Bernie wasn’t it?

  35. Colonel Crispin Berka

    How many Dems would even know who she is?

    Lots. Dems talk to each other. They talk a lot. You don’t think a hivemind gets established by telepathy, do you?
    Lots of name-dropping about Tulsi Gabbard for the last 3 months.

    Still don’t know why anyone would vote for her, although the way she dodged the female wage gap question and said what she really wanted to say instead was a good sign.

  36. nb

    ‘Government activism’ is either an oxymoron or super-scary change at the point of a gun.

  37. rickw

    I don’t think even munty is claiming that there’s a winner amongst that lot.

  38. Tator

    whinging about the all powerful insurance companies. Whose costs are exorbitant due to the additional costs imposed by the lefts SJW activist lawyer cabal who sue the “rich doctors” for medical malpractice at every opportunity even when there is no malpractice. Imagine how much cheaper the medical industry in the US would be without the litigation industry feeding off of it.

  39. nfw

    But they did all raise their hands in unison. How reminiscent of a democratic Soviet party meeting.

  40. Zatara

    But they did all raise their hands in unison.

    Almost as if they knew it was coming and had practiced for it….

  41. Tel

    I don’t think even munty is claiming that there’s a winner amongst that lot.

    It would be fascinating to hear his predictions.

    I’ll stick my neck out a bit:
    * Based on these debates, Trump is the real winner here, with an excellent chance in 2020 against most of these candidates.
    * Bernie Sanders has a good grass roots network, don’t underestimate him, but he isn’t contributing a whole lot beyond consistency and staying power.
    * Seems that the first debate was setup for the purpose of making Elizabeth Warren look good, and that didn’t really work out for them. If they really see Warren as the anointed successor to Hillary then at that stage the only way Trump could lose is if he laughs so much he falls over.
    * Joe Biden is too old, too white and a bit too sensible to win the Democratic nomination. I doubt he could beat Trump at any rate.
    * Their plan for open borders and massive free stuff will probably fool quite a lot of people, but it will also upset a lot of independents. If the plan got put into place it would lead to an economic disaster, I’m sure there must be someone amongst the Democrats who understands that, you have to presume they don’t care.

  42. Tel

    Tator #3065486,

    I doesn’t have to make sense, Obama was illegally spooning tax money hand over fist to the insurance companies, with no consequences. He was doing it to keep Obamacare from falling apart and Trump put a stop to that money so many insurance companies simply jumped ship and abandoned Obamacare. It failed like it was intended to fail.

    Obamacare in its current corporatist form isn’t meant to last. It’s meant to push us towards full socialized medicine with a single-payer system. How do I know this? Simple. Let’s compare Obamacare with the Canadian single-payer system.

    With Obamacare we have crappier health care (fewer choices, fewer doctors, and an IPAB rationing panel of faceless bureaucrats, aka the ol’ “death panel” that has been admitted to existing in Obamacare), but it is very expensive for the individual American. For instance, you’ll find that the so-called Bronze Plans are just as expensive as the Platinum Plans when you factor in the $5,000-$10,000 deductible in addition to the monthly payments you’ll shell out. And those Americans who aren’t being pushed onto the Obamacare exchanges are still seeing their insurance premiums skyrocket as the industry shifts onto consumers the cost of not factoring in various conditions.

    Now let’s look at what Canadians have. I dare say our good neighbor to your north, and my east, has even worse health care coverage, but at least it’s “free” for the individual.

    Americans, if you’re faced with a 300% increase (or even a 65% increase like my family) in your health care premiums for crappier coverage, doesn’t “free” socialized medicine all of a sudden sound appealing?

    And that’s how Americans will be led down the primrose path to a single-payer system. People will be frustrated, worn out, and broke under this new government burden. Many will end up concluding they’ll settle for – then demand – full socialized medicine because they’ll see how the unworkable Obamacare will break our health care system (where, presently, no one is turned away from emergency rooms and we have many public and private safety nets for people in need), along with busting our personal bank accounts. The cry will go out, “Can’t you just put us all in a sort of Medicaid-like system? It’ll be much less confusing than these awful exchange websites and a lot less expensive!” As things stand, many who are getting slammed by Obamacare will inevitably settle for less out of necessity. And that’s the left’s declared plan: a single-payer system. They said it. I didn’t.

    – Sarah Palin (prediction made in 2013)

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