Tuesday Forum: July 2, 2019

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2,059 Responses to Tuesday Forum: July 2, 2019

  1. Roger

    The longstanding concern I had is that the ACs may end up becoming a de facto Christian dominated outfit and in Australian politics that does not auger well for electoral success.

    The AC’s policies appeared to me to be informed more than anything else by RC social doctrine but that didn’t stop me from being a member although I am not RC, in fact it attracted me to them because of the clear basis in natural law which by definition has a broad appeal beyond RCism. But then I am a Christian. I would like to think that if ACs had continued it would have broadened its base.

  2. Some History

    Watch them while they’re still available.

    Two short videos from the early-1980s that includes simple-minded Crapman, the bully. [Crapman is the typical hyped activist. If he was 30 now, he would be a rabid climate change activist].

    The videos are all about horrible tobacco advertising and the ebil tobacco empire making loads of money from sick smokers. Well, these SJWs have really turned it around. It’s now the government that makes the great load of money from tobacco egged on by the same SJWs.

    Also noteworthy is that since the 1980s a “Nurse Ratched” mentality has been allowed to flourish in the medical establishment to an institutionalized level. This is particularly clear in anti-tobacco. It could well be asked what moral code the medically-aligned operate by? There’s no Hippocratic Oath. Is there any oath? Is there any coherent code?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVM7BbIa_4s

  3. one old bruce

    The Judeo-Christian belief in an ‘end of the world’ is unique. Other belief systems had cataclysms (of course they did, as observed in the real world) but they all marked a new beginning and the cycle starts over. Wikipedia tries to make the J-C belief seem universal by mixing up tow different ideas. Of course pagans believed nature is cyclical, like the season and day and night. And there were disasters, which survivers saw as opportunities, Only J-C saw this as a cosmic reflection of an other-worldly higher scheme. That’s got to make a difference in culture.

    How much does deep Apocolayptic belief influence environmental extremism? A lot I think.

  4. candy

    It won’t surprise if after the tax cuts have settled in, raising the GST becomes the object.

  5. Roger

    Maybe next time you should respect the election result from the start dumbo!

    Quite the challenge when you’re the natural party of government in your own eyes.

  6. dover_beach

    Re those Latin chains:

    The first Bible in the German vernacular was produced in the eight century at the monastery of Monse. By the fifteenth century, there were 36,000 German manuscript bibles in circulation, and a complete printed Bible in the German vernacular appeared in 1529, five years before Luther’s translation was published.

  7. Leigh Lowe

    Fisky

    #3097315, posted on July 4, 2019 at 7:55 pm

    Tax cuts pass the Senate. Huge defeat for Albo. Zero authority or credibility. Maybe next time you should respect the election result from the start dumbo!

    One excellent feature of this Senate is no poncing grandstanding Hinch.
    The bad news is he is back on Sky.

  8. Empire 5:5

    Leigh Lowe
    #3097312, posted on July 4, 2019 at 7:54 pm

    I love the smell of smouldering fly carcass in the morning..

  9. bespoke

    cohenite
    #3097232, posted on July 4, 2019 at 6:42 pm
    Feelthebern
    #3097188, posted on July 4, 2019 at 5:37 pm
    Watched the last show of The Big Bang Theory

    What happened?

    It’s on again on Go.

  10. Roger

    How much does deep Apocolayptic belief influence environmental extremism? A lot I think.

    Only in an ersatz sense, in the same way that Communist doctrine & iconography was influenced by Christianity.

  11. Boambee John

    Seco at 1730

    I don’t get it Bruce, an atheist friend of mine who went on a huge anti Christian rant one night over Folau said he’d read the Bible “cover to cover” and it’s complete fiction. Surely there’s not actual historical truth in the Bible? I might have to mention this to him.

    You could point out to your athiest friend that Jesus appears in both contemporary Roman records (which seem to dismiss Him as a minor revolutionary) and in Josephus’ histories. Josephus was a Romanised Jew, and did not favour Jesus in his writings.

    These accounts were written when Christianity was a struggling minority religion, which could explain the dismissive approach.

  12. Roger

    The first Bible in the German vernacular was produced in the eight century at the monastery of Monse. By the fifteenth century, there were 36,000 German manuscript bibles in circulation, and a complete printed Bible in the German vernacular appeared in 1529, five years before Luther’s translation was published.

    Yes, but Luther’s translation was the first from the best texts then available in the original Hebrew and Greek and not from Jerome’s Vulgate.

    That makes quite a difference, as any competent RC Bible scholar will today admit.

  13. Empire 5:5

    Quite the challenge when you’re the natural party of government in your own eyes.

    No rational person could reach this conclusion. They are the clear leaders in losing federal elections. Consistently since federation. Losers.

  14. Roger

    The first Bible in the German vernacular was produced in the eight century at the monastery of Monse. By the fifteenth century, there were 36,000 German manuscript bibles in circulation, and a complete printed Bible in the German vernacular appeared in 1529, five years before Luther’s translation was published.

    Yes, but Luther’s version was the first translated from the best available texts in the original H3brew and Greek and not from the Vulgate.

    And that made all the difference, as any competent RC Bible scholar will acknowledge today.

  15. Roger

    No rational person could reach this conclusion.

    Indeed; never imagine Socialists are rational.

  16. one old bruce

    I’ll hoist my flag: I’m an Indo-Europeanist. The pre-Christian beliefs and culture of our ancestors are still with us in every day life. It’s tribal, it’s instinctive.

    And you want to take your dogs to the afterlife? Ancient IE’s believed you CAN’T get to heaven without a faithful dog. Cool huh?

  17. Empire 5:5

    The St.Kilda of federal politics.
    Record # of concession speeches by failed leaders.
    More stale scones and salty tears cleaned up by stalwart volunteers than all the rest combined.
    A proud history of coming second.
    Liars Party.

  18. Rafe Champion

    Windwatch for the evening, Now Sun and Windwatch reporting daily on their contribution at the morning and evening peaks. At this time of year there is nothing from the sun at dinnertime.

    THURSDAY 4 EVENING. At 6.20 wind was picking up strongly from 1.5GW at 3pm to deliver 2.1GW of 28.9 = 7%.

    THURSDAY 4 MORNING. At 8.15 the sun and wind combined to provide 3.5GW, 13% of 27.5. Wind alone provided 2.2 or 8%.

    As demand went down the sun was coming up and the unreliables were settling down to eat the lunch of the coal-fired stations for the rest of the day until the sun goes down before the real work of the day has to be done.

  19. Boambee John

    Seco at 1730

    I don’t get it Bruce, an atheist friend of mine who went on a huge anti Christian rant one night over Folau said he’d read the Bible “cover to cover” and it’s complete fiction. Surely there’s not actual historical truth in the Bible? I might have to mention this to him.

    You could point out to your athiest friend that Jesus appears in both contemporary Roman records (which seem to dismiss Him as a minor revolutionary) and in Josephus’ histories. Josephus was a Romanised J**w, and did not favour Jesus in his writings.

    These accounts were written when Christianity was a struggling minority religion, which could explain the dismissive approach.

  20. Leigh Lowe

    Empire 5:5

    #3097327, posted on July 4, 2019 at 8:02 pm

    Leigh Lowe
    #3097312, posted on July 4, 2019 at 7:54 pm

    I love the smell of smouldering fly carcass in the morning..

    Not so much.
    But those triple looped tube globes are a perfect trap for those midgies that are attracted to light.
    Collect a couple of hundred carcasses, then … poof!

  21. Westie Woman

    Just waiting at our local golf club while my dear friend and also workmate completes winning at the pokies…at least I won a raffle prize

    I’m heading off to Japan in 3 weeks to spend time with friends in Osaka and I’d love to see Carpe while I’m there…I follow him on Twitter so I suppose I can DM him

    Home via Vietnam to visit a friend in hoi am

    Might do a Cat travelogue!

    Any of you dear people keep in touch with Carpe ?

    I think he’s in Kobe and im prepared to travel… not far from Osaka

  22. Leigh Lowe

    Crickit of no consequence.
    The opium farmers vs the weed smokers.
    The weed smokers batting with lethargy, the opium farmers bowling with high energy.
    Hey, you don’t think …

  23. Gab

    You could point out to your athiest friend that Jesus appears in both contemporary Roman records (which seem to dismiss Him as a minor revolutionary) and in Josephus’ histories. Josephus was a Romanised J**w, and did not favour Jesus in his writings.

    also see Tacitus and Pliny who both provide a non-Christian confirmation of Jesus.

  24. one old bruce

    ‘The Bible…complete fiction’ – at first we only knew of the Hittites (Indo-European btw) because they are mentioned in the Bible. Then we discovered this vast Anatolian archeology of the culture, along with readable texts, which confirmed that the Hittites were an actual historical people.

    At the very least, the Bible is an important resource for ancient historians and archeologists. Saying it’s ‘fiction’ is just silly, it contains a great diversity of texts for one thing, each needs to be read on its own terms. Anyone who tells you they’ve ‘read the Bible’ in fact hasn’t.

  25. Gab

    Happy travels, Westie Woman.

  26. Westie Woman

    Btw Japan always terrifies me – I lose all sense of direction there

    My son is with me for a few days mainly for us to see a baseball game in the air-conditioned stadium but he’s leaving me go to the States after a couple of days..

    My dear friend hiroyuki better get the time off work to get me on the train to Kobe to see Carpe otherwise I might end up in Tokyo

  27. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘inform and benefit Western science.’

    Birthing trees.

    Shame on you all.

  28. Westie Woman

    Thanks Gab

    Btw I’m a Gab too

    Gabby/ Gabriela

  29. Knuckle Dragger

    Rococo, 4.07 pm;

    Streets full of ‘human scum shitting everywhere’

    Welcome to Darwin.

  30. Gab

    Westie, I’m a Gabriella. (two Ls)

    I got around on the train in Japan just fine. They are very helpful people.

  31. vlad

    Did anyone here report Arte Johnson’s death at 90?

    MAD magazine is shutting up shop as well. The seventies were its heyday.

    Good night.

  32. cohenite

    It’s on again on Go.

    Yeah, just caught the final speech by the idiot savant going all alan alda gooey. If the rest was like that good riddance.

  33. John Constantine

    https://news.usni.org/2019/07/03/kremlin-releases-new-details-on-russian-submarine-fire-identifies-sailors-killed?fbclid=IwAR3SWAzTcJO-6ZXV0IN1JgNiw288qsKZzm-TYpOwfhA3W8HW0cFMn34-cSY

    Must have been well motivated elite and disciplined.

    Defense minister Sergei Shoigu confirmed that there were survivors from the fire aboard the submarine, which USNI News understands to be Losharik (A-12).

    “The submariners acted heroically in the critical situation,” he said on Wednesday from the Russian North Fleet base in Severomorsk.
    “They evacuated a civilian expert from the compartment that was engulfed by fire and shut the door to prevent the fire from spreading further and fought for the ship’s survival until the end.”

    Who knows what the truth is, but it doesn’t read like a vikpol, flee, cower, beg, situation.

    The boat must have been fairly important to be so heavily crewed by high ranking officers.

    Comrades

  34. Notafan

    Who gave Luther those texts, and the education to read them?

    I thought Luther’s claim to fame was producing a standardized German dictionary.

    What ‘difference’ did it make to faithful Christians?

    Chrit said nothing about knowledge of the Bible being a requirement for eternal life.

  35. BrettW

    You could say it was top heavy.

    But as you say very high ranking crew.

    John Constantine
    #3097366, posted on July 4, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    The boat must have been fairly important to be so heavily crewed by high ranking officers.

    Comrades

  36. dover_beach

    Yes, but Luther’s version was the first translated from the best available texts in the original H3brew and Greek and not from the Vulgate.

    And that made all the difference, as any competent RC Bible scholar will acknowledge today.

    Not in so far as my point there had to do with the availability of vernacular versions of the Bible, still, given that St. Jerome accomplished that in the 4th C into Latin I like to peruse some of those important differences.

  37. max

    Didn’t Luther call James ‘an epistle of straw’ and introduce the word ‘alone’ when discussing justification by faith ?

    Not to mention fathering thousands of quarrelsome sects.

    By their fruits.

  38. Knuckle Dragger

    I’ve always thought Luther was a bit of a pillock.

    Loud, abrasive, anti-establishment. I don’t know why Superman spared his life, I really don’t.

  39. P

    Augustine wrote:
    “The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed,
    the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.”
    Or words denoting this.

    Catholic Mass:
    The word of the Lord. Thanks be to God.
    The Gospel of the Lord. Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ.

  40. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    More about doggos and final judgment, please.

    Might have to switch to Tengrism or Rodnovery.

  41. P

    THE BIBLE
    Study it carefully,
    Think of it prayerfully,
    Deep in thy heart let its pure precepts dwell.
    Slight not its history,
    Ponder its mystery
    None can e’er prize it too fondly or well.
    Accept the glad tidings,
    The warnings and chidings,
    Found in this volume of heavenly lore;
    With faith that’s unfailing
    And love all-prevailing,
    Trust in its promise of life evermore.

  42. Mitch M.

    ‘A flying death sentence’: China’s terrifying new weapon revealed

    Russia and the USA have hypersonic missiles. Game changer, very difficult to stop. Kinetic energy alone is highly destructive.

  43. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    China is leading the world in the hypersonic weapons race

    Just no.

    LOL

    The propaganda has it attacking a USN carrier with F-14D Tomcats aboard.

    Welp, if they’ve time travel, I guess they can form a ridiculous alliance with some of the nutty, conservative Hanrahans’ on this blog and destroy America on 4 July, 1776.

  44. cohenite

    ‘A flying death sentence’: China’s terrifying new weapon revealed

    Russia and the USA have hypersonic missiles. Game changer, very difficult to stop. Kinetic energy alone is highly destructive.

    Can they outrun LASERs?

  45. Knuckle Dragger

    Until the Chinks can outrun sharks with frickin’ laser beams, they’ve got work still to do.

  46. Knuckle Dragger

    Might be time for a Nork-style ‘earthquake’ in Shanghai.

  47. BrettW

    2GB has become like listening to the Mama mia channel (if there was such a thing).

    So much time talking about breast feeding of a 4 year old by some female in Ireland.

  48. Mitch M.

    China is leading the world in the hypersonic weapons race

    Not true, Russians have decades of experience with Mach 3-4 missiles. Even those are damn difficult to stop. The Chinese are decades behind. The USA has too long relied on the venerable harpoon which is subsonic but has the advantage of very low trajectory minimising detection. Still out of date though. The USA has developed hypersonic anti-ship missiles so laugh at the Chinese if you will but they are doing what Russia and the USA have been doing for a long time.

    Can they outrun LASERs?

    Not the issue, targeting is. Some modern missiles are designed not to maintain a straight attack path, can weave about. At very high Mach that makes targeting extremely difficult. Also it won’t be one missile at a time, it will be many. The other problem with very high Mach speeds is by the time the missile has been detected it can be too late to do anything about it. Even if the laser does hit the mark it may not have enough time to destruct the missile.

    The above is why the Russians have long developed high Mach anti-ship missiles. It is why the USA created the F-14, which was very much designed to carry Phoenix missiles as a counter measure because those missiles were intended to intercept the Russian anti-ship missiles. Top Gun lied to us, the F-14 is primarily an interceptor not a dog fighter.

  49. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    The F-111 was meant to do the job the F-14 did. A very fast, hardly manoeuvrable brick. Imagine landing that bastard on a USN carrier.

    Post Soviet Russia’s military capability is a lot of bluffing though. When you read about the Kursk (its voyage was a show of force), you see they are a desperate semi-failed state, run by a former KGB spiv.

    I always wondered what the RAAF would have looked like if we got a “hi-lo” mix of the A-10, F-14, F-15E and F-111.

    Probably a lot better than the joke of a plane that is the F-35 and BURYING the F-111s as landfill if not parked as lawn ornaments.

  50. Knuckle Dragger

    Yup.

    The Ivans have a lot of stuff, but most of it’s busted. To have any effectiveness anywhere over a period of time they’d better have half a million sleeper agents with swimming pools full of polonium 210.

    The main drama with the inscrutable dry cleaners will probably be their cyber capability. They’d have no compunction about using the good old human wave thing, but a few A10s would create acres of Asian mince in the killing field.

  51. Some History

    Saturday in the Park
    Chicago
    Saturday in the park,
    I think it was the Fourth of July
    Saturday in the park,
    I think it was the Fourth of July
    People dancing, people laughing
    A man selling ice cream
    Singing Italian songs
    Everybody is another
    Can you dig it (yes, I can)
    And I’ve been waiting such a long time
    For Saturday
    Another day in the park
    I think it was the Fourth of July
    Another day in the park
    I think it was the Fourth of July
    People talking, really smiling
    A man playing guitar
    And singing for us all
    Will you help him change the world
    Can you dig it (yes, I can)
    And I’ve been waiting such a long time
    For today
    Slow motion riders fly the colors of the day
    A bronze man still can tell stories his own way
    Listen children….

  52. Mitch M.

    The F-111 was meant to do the job the F-14 did. A very fast, hardly manoeuvrable brick. Imagine landing that bastard on a USN carrier.

    The F-111 was too heavy for carrier operations.

    Probably a lot better than the joke of a plane that is the F-35 and BURYING the F-111s as landfill if not parked as lawn ornaments.

    The F-35 is the wrong choice for Australia. Like you I prefer a mix of aircraft. So have the F-35’s for some special operations but something like the F-15 E for aerial defence because the F-35 can’t dogfight. I even wonder if a squadron or two of B1 B lancers is a good idea because with those we can guarantee serious damage from a long way off. The B1 B is like a super F-111.

    The Ivans have a lot of stuff, but most of it’s busted.

    When Russia, the USA, and China have developed these weapons it is a good bet they believe in the capability of hypersonic missiles.

  53. zyconoclast

    John Constantine
    #3097366, posted on July 4, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    Russia submersible fire was in battery compartment

  54. None

    The first Christians used a Greek translation of the Old Testament as their Bible. This differed from what we know of the Hebrew bible today. Most of the Old Testament quotes in New Testament documents are from Greek translations. These translations were originally made by Hellenized Jews and there were several in circulation, plus a few Christian revisions. The most notable was that of Origen who compared the Greek church translations with a Hebrew text. There was no standard order of books ( whole Bibles were quite rare until about the 4th century and 5th century anyway) nor was there a standard Canon of books included in the Old Testament. The books of the New Testament we’re not stable either and we’re still under discussion in the 4th century. So for example some of the most famous Greek speaking Christians of that era along with syriac speakers omitted certain Catholic epistles and the book of revelation.

  55. None

    The first Christians used a Greek translation of the Old Testament as their Bible. This differed from what we know of the Hebrew bible today. Most of the Old Testament quotes in New Testament documents are from Greek translations. These translations were originally made by Hellenized J-ws and there were several in circulation, plus a few Christian revisions. The most notable was that of Origen who compared the Greek church translations with a H-brew text. There was no standard order of books ( whole Bibles were quite rare until about the 4th century and 5th century anyway) nor was there a standard Canon of books included in the Old Testament. The books of the New Testament we’re not stable either and we’re still under discussion in the 4th century. So for example some of the most famous Greek speaking Christians of that era along with syriac speakers omitted certain Catholic epistles and the book of Revelation.

  56. None

    Yes Roger Luther did to the German vernacular bibles what basically Jerome did to the old Latin versions.

  57. Seco

    So much of what they read will simply pass them unnoticed.

    Now that I’m listening to it I’ll definitely read it next time, for exactly the reason you have stated. There’s a lot of names that get rattled off in the Old Testament. I’ve found myself lost in my own thoughts whilst listening and having to rewind some parts.

  58. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    The point was made that splendid old country estates in Ireland were often left neglected because they carried memories of absentee landlords, occupation and religious exclusion.

    The Protestant Ascendancy is still very strongly felt and disliked in the more traditional parts of Ireland.
    Hairy has shaken his fist at it more than once on our travels in that fine land. Bit of a problem for him though, as his father was Protestant. He’s not actually very Irish at all, except in nature at times as when drunkenly pissing on the soil of the Ascendancy, but he does like to go on about it occasionally in the spirit of his rebellious yoof when he chased a folk-singing Irish girl, a madwoman so his friends reliably inform me, all over Ireland in his university holidays.

    Indeed, this might be a cue to sing his song: Raglan Road.
    I know it very, very well, he says to me, coming in as he hears me find it just now.

    Rather like me and being Welsh. If you identify then you are, as they say.

  59. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I am taking some codeine and heading bedwards. My nose is still sore. Tomorrow I hope to be better, to get to a morning dance class, see my friends, and resume normal life. Busy weekend coming up too.

    Play safe, Cats.

  60. JC

    I’m not sure if it was 730 or some other show pretending to be reporting the news. The ABC had Michael Wolff on as some sort of reliable source.

    Read this

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/451486-dershowitz-author-michael-wolff-fictionalized-my-dinner-with-trump

    The ABC, the most trusted source in Australia.

  61. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    2h
    People are coming from far and wide to join us today and tonight for what is turning out to be one of the biggest celebrations in the history of our Country, SALUTE TO AMERICA, an all day event at the Lincoln Memorial, culminating with large scale flyovers of the most modern….and advanced aircraft anywhere in the World. Perhaps even Air Force One will do a low & loud sprint over the crowd. That will start at 6:00P.M., but be there early. Then, at 9:00 P.M., a great (to put it mildly) fireworks display. I will speak on behalf of our great Country!

  62. jupes

    What’s going on in Australia?

    It must be pretty boring if the Cat has gone to sleep.

  63. Fair shake of the Sauce bottle

    Hibernation I’m guessing. Tis 2c in Melbanistan.

  64. bespoke

    Probably a lot better than the joke of a plane that is the F-35 and BURYING the F-111s as landfill if not parked as lawn ornaments.

    Will see, I lot positive comments by people that actually fly them have come out. But also how bad it was to cut the order of f22’s was.

  65. JC

    The Portland police chief… Danielle Outlaw Not kidding that’s her name.

    https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/article/657352

  66. Top Ender

    Breaking news…Earthquake hits southern California.

    Some media saying “huge” and “biggest in 25 years”.

    No word on casualties yet.

  67. John Constantine

    The Sydney Cricket Ground Trust, at the behest of the AFL, has formed a committee to consider drop-in pitches at the venue which has hosted Test cricket since 1882. “The move to a drop-in wicket with lifeless uniformity will create the risk of boring cricket,” Cricket NSW’s submission to the committee says.

    “I’ve-got-gillions” mclachlan demands drop in pitches for the Sydney cricket ground.

  68. Top Ender

    Even more uni loonie tunes:

    Flinders University to urge staff on to ‘cultural learning’ courses on race, privilege

    EXCLUSIVE
    BERNARD LANE
    ROVING EDITOR, LEADER WRITER, DATA JOURNALIST
    @Bernard_Lane

    All staff at Flinders University would be urged to take “cultural learning” courses about “race, (white) privilege and decolonis­ation”, under a draft reconciliation action plan that acknow­ledges the “ongoing sovereignty” of indigenous people.

    “We respect and recognise the long-held philosophies, know­ledges, research, strengths and contributions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities in this country,” the draft says.

    Reconciliation Australia co-chair Tom Calma led workshops for Flinders staff and students to discuss these ideas in Adelaide, Darwin and Alice Springs this week.

    The university said the conversatio­ns were “reflecting deep thinking and courage”.

    Asked whether the decolonis­ation course would be compulsory, a spokeswoman for the draft plan steering group said: “We offer and encourage learning, not enforce it. (The university) can ­itself learn from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and communities. We want to provide an opportunity for cross-cultural learning.”

    She said all aspects of the plan were open for debate and change. All viewpoints were welcome.

    Indigenous people represent 1.3 per cent of students and 1.4 per cent of staff at the university.

    Flinders noted its various campus locations operated on indigenou­s peoples’ traditional lands and waters, and name-checked 14 indigenous groups with “continued responsibility to care for country”.

    The university would look into setting up a council of elders “to bring indigenous perspectives to planning and decision-making”. Its human resources field would be scrutinised for unconscious bias or structural discrimination.

    There has been a wave of recon­ciliation action plans introduced in higher education.

    A popular theory in the humanit­ies and social sciences is that knowledge, power and languag­e cannot be separated, making objective truth an ­illusion. Racism is said to be built into the structure of society, meaning whites enjoy “privilege” regardless of their beliefs, intentions or actions.

    In this northern summer, the elite Cornell University in the US is offering a six-week seminar on “decolonising epistemology (the study of how we come to know things)”, which poses the ques­tion­: Should we continue to use concepts like “rationality’’ and “reason’’?

    Flinders promises “truth telling” in “a culturally inclusive environm­ent”. Graduates are also being asked their views on the draft plan.

    Flinders alumni include ­Ter­ence Tao, a winner of the Fields Medal for mathematics; Australian War Memorial director and former federal education minister Brendan Nelson; and Bernard “Doc” Neeson, late frontman for rock group the Angels.

    Under the draft plan, indig­enous staff at Flinders on fixed-term employment would get automatic contract extensions, and indig­enous job applicants would be ­offered automatic short-listing for interview.

    The university would hire an indigenous person to deliver “cultural­ safety training” and local indigenous land owners would be asked for advice on the cultural learning coursework for staff.

    University of Melbourne ­­indig­enous astronomer Duane ­Ham­acher, who has published a paper with three elders on indig­enous observation of stars for calendars and weather forecasts, said the “science of indigenous knowledge” course he had developed at the University of NSW was “rigorous and academically sound”.

    Sydney University evolutionary biologist Madeleine Beekman questions the idea of ethno­science, saying “science should be race-, region- and sex-blind”.

    Dr Hamacher said he designed the UNSW course to elevate indigenous science to the same level (as Western science) “so the two systems of knowledge can learn and benefit from each other.”

    University of South Australia research fellow in management Skye Akbar, who helped draft her university’s reconciliation action plan, said “indigenous people developed­ knowledge for eons before­ colonisers came up with a system­ to validate their own findings and decided to use that system to invalidate indigenous know­ledges”.

    Dr Hamacher said all science was “embedded in culture”.

    In his government-backed ­review of campus free speech, former High Court chief justice Robert French said university policies on “diversity and inclusiveness” were among potential constraints on freedom of expression.

    University of Sydney activist and verbal semantics expert Nick ­Riemer said Mr French’s model free speech code would be “used against progressives”. He pointed out that his own university, which embraced the code, had “sacked an academic for criticising Israel”.

    Political economy lecturer Tim Anderson was dismissed in February after he presented a seminar with a graphic showing the Nazi swastika superimposed on the Israeli­ flag. “He compared Israel to Nazi Germany, as many people, including Israelis, have done,” Dr Riemer said.

    Link with comments open but prolly need an Oz sub.

  69. Top Ender

    Even more uni loonie tunes:

    Flinders University to urge staff on to ‘cultural learning’ courses on race, privilege

    EXCLUSIVE
    BERNARD LANE
    ROVING EDITOR, LEADER WRITER, DATA JOURNALIST
    @Bernard_Lane

    All staff at Flinders University would be urged to take “cultural learning” courses about “race, (white) privilege and decolonis­ation”, under a draft reconciliation action plan that acknow­ledges the “ongoing sovereignty” of indigenous people.

    “We respect and recognise the long-held philosophies, know­ledges, research, strengths and contributions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities in this country,” the draft says.

    Reconciliation Australia co-chair Tom Calma led workshops for Flinders staff and students to discuss these ideas in Adelaide, Darwin and Alice Springs this week.

    The university said the conversatio­ns were “reflecting deep thinking and courage”.

    Asked whether the decolonis­ation course would be compulsory, a spokeswoman for the draft plan steering group said: “We offer and encourage learning, not enforce it. (The university) can ­itself learn from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and communities. We want to provide an opportunity for cross-cultural learning.”

    She said all aspects of the plan were open for debate and change. All viewpoints were welcome.

    Indigenous people represent 1.3 per cent of students and 1.4 per cent of staff at the university.

    Flinders noted its various campus locations operated on indigenou­s peoples’ traditional lands and waters, and name-checked 14 indigenous groups with “continued responsibility to care for country”.

    The university would look into setting up a council of elders “to bring indigenous perspectives to planning and decision-making”. Its human resources field would be scrutinised for unconscious bias or structural discrimination.

    There has been a wave of recon­ciliation action plans introduced in higher education.

    A popular theory in the humanit­ies and social sciences is that knowledge, power and languag­e cannot be separated, making objective truth an ­illusion. Racism is said to be built into the structure of society, meaning whites enjoy “privilege” regardless of their beliefs, intentions or actions.

    In this northern summer, the elite Cornell University in the US is offering a six-week seminar on “decolonising epistemology (the study of how we come to know things)”, which poses the ques­tion­: Should we continue to use concepts like “rationality’’ and “reason’’?

    Flinders promises “truth telling” in “a culturally inclusive environm­ent”. Graduates are also being asked their views on the draft plan.

    Flinders alumni include ­Ter­ence Tao, a winner of the Fields Medal for mathematics; Australian War Memorial director and former federal education minister Brendan Nelson; and Bernard “Doc” Neeson, late frontman for rock group the Angels.

    Under the draft plan, indig­enous staff at Flinders on fixed-term employment would get automatic contract extensions, and indig­enous job applicants would be ­offered automatic short-listing for interview.

    The university would hire an indigenous person to deliver “cultural­ safety training” and local indigenous land owners would be asked for advice on the cultural learning coursework for staff.

    University of Melbourne ­­indig­enous astronomer Duane ­Ham­acher, who has published a paper with three elders on indig­enous observation of stars for calendars and weather forecasts, said the “science of indigenous knowledge” course he had developed at the University of NSW was “rigorous and academically sound”.

    Sydney University evolutionary biologist Madeleine Beekman questions the idea of ethno­science, saying “science should be race-, region- and sex-blind”.

    Dr Hamacher said he designed the UNSW course to elevate indigenous science to the same level (as Western science) “so the two systems of knowledge can learn and benefit from each other.”

    University of South Australia research fellow in management Skye Akbar, who helped draft her university’s reconciliation action plan, said “indigenous people developed­ knowledge for eons before­ colonisers came up with a system­ to validate their own findings and decided to use that system to invalidate indigenous know­ledges”.

    Dr Hamacher said all science was “embedded in culture”.

    In his government-backed ­review of campus free speech, former High Court chief justice Robert French said university policies on “diversity and inclusiveness” were among potential constraints on freedom of expression.

    University of Sydney activist and verbal semantics expert Nick ­Riemer said Mr French’s model free speech code would be “used against progressives”. He pointed out that his own university, which embraced the code, had “sacked an academic for criticising Israel”.

    Political economy lecturer Tim Anderson was dismissed in February after he presented a seminar with a graphic showing the N azi swastika superimposed on the Israeli­ flag. “He compared Israel to N azi Germany, as many people, including Israelis, have done,” Dr Riemer said.

    Link with comments open but prolly need an Oz sub.

  70. John Constantine

    http://kswheat.com/news/2019/07/01/day-4-kansas-wheat-harvest-report

    Big harvest rains for parts of the American grainbelt. Watching a family on social media use a few days of window between rain events to run multiple harvesters with multiple chaser bins in huge yielding crops, with road infrastructure and delivery points so efficient that trucks are loaded without leaving the road direct from the fenceless paddocks, all day and night while the window is open,

    And the high moisture grain has a market.

    While harvest is full tilt, they are also baling the straw for the feedlot and carting it off the paddock so the seeder can sow the doublecrop soybeans before the next rain.

    Manpower, new efficient machinery and infrastructure to cope with peak capacity in bad weather, and a get it done culture.

    In yarragrad, as soon as a brief window opened up between rains at harvest time, vikpol would send all units out to man roadblocks and slap unroadworthy stickers on the truck fleet, worksafe would be enforcing fatigue breaks, quality control officials would take ten minutes each load to minutely examine for flaws under a microscope, while dropping a steel ball through dough milled up from the grain sample and counting how many minutes it takes to fall to the bottom.

    Before the compliance burdens are met, it is raining on the unharvested wheat again in yarragrad, while in Kansas the grain is in storage, the straw is off the paddock and the soybeans are coming up.

    Comrades.

  71. Top Ender

    Would be interesting to find out the facts behind this:

    Electric cars get free plug-in charge stations
    ELIZA GALBRAITH

    Tesla owner Richard Smith at the new and free charging stations at the Waterfront — he drove 14,500km over 18 days to demonstrate that electric cars can go the distance

    THREE Tesla charging stations are now available to use for free in the Darwin CBD, ensuring those with electric vehicles are able to easily charge up.

    Tesla owner Richard Smith said the station would charge his car in three hours. Mr Smith spent 18 days driving 14,500km across the country in his electric car. “I wanted to do it to prove electric vehicles can travel long distance,” he said. Port Darwin MLA Paul Kirby welcomed the new technology. “This is an excellent example of how a government organisation has harnessed smart city technology and is supporting a clean transport solution.”

    Darwin Waterfront Corporation events and marketing manager Paola McCarthy said Tesla provided the stations free of charge, with the only cost to the owner being the power usage.

    The three charging stations are now available on level 2 of the Kitchener Drive Multi-Storey carpark

    Questions, questions…

    According to Wiki, the range of a Tesla is 600 k’s…didn’t say which model.

    So there must be charging stations between Mt Isa and Camoweal, and so on?

    18 days?

    14,500 k’s?

    Melbourne to Darwin is 3,742 k’s.

    And in the future, we can look forward to: “Tesla provided the stations free of charge, with the only cost to the owner being the power usage.”

    Which is how much?

  72. John Constantine

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/louisaburwoodtaylor/2019/06/12/indigo-ceo-agriculture-can-reverse-climate-change-and-livestock-farming-has-an-important-role/?fbclid=IwAR20iSHruCuoiB1QjmoyubKzAdyZ_f8R-cOA9wUZVDq9uutTmQlCuJ_PqlU#40680cd52afb

    It’s not often you hear people refer to “livestock farming” and “climate change” in a positive context. And even less so among tech entrepreneurs, as increasing numbers look to create meat-free, alternative food products with the hope of reducing the impact of the meat industry on the environment.

    But David Perry, CEO of Indigo Agriculture, a startup out of Boston and one of few agtech ‘unicorns,’ says certain farming practices, including raising livestock, are the solution to reversing climate change in a major new initiative launched by the company.

    Today, Indigo launched the Terraton Initiative, a goal to sequester one trillion tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere by adopting “regenerative agriculture” practices. Perry and his colleagues say that sequestering one trillion tons of carbon will reverse the increase in atmospheric carbon since the Industrial Revolutio

  73. Leigh Lowe

    California earthquake.
    Reports of turds rolling off footpaths in LA and San Francisco.

  74. Farmer Gez

    Sky news.
    Police break up elderly Chinese begging scam in Melbourne CBD.
    Handlers are bringing them in from China and bagging profits. The Hun has the story.
    And so the John C prophesy comes to pass.

  75. Knuckle Dragger

    TE,

    Appreciated. I’ve seen the (empty) charging stations at the airport, haven’t seen a Tesla up here yet – let alone a continent-circumnavigating one.

  76. Zatara

    The F-111 was meant to do the job the F-14 did. A very fast, hardly manoeuvrable brick. Imagine landing that bastard on a USN carrier.

    The original F-111 was designed and built to USAF requirements. Then SecDef McNamara insisted that a joint program be instituted to create a Navy version (for manufacturing and cost efficiency). The F-111B was the result. Operational testing showed it to be quite overweight and extremely underpowered for carrier operations, and completely unsuitable for the Navy fighter/interceptor role.

    It did go through actual carrier operations evaluation though.

    On a side note, many people know that the C-130 was landed and launched from a carrier during trials but how about the U-2 Dragon Lady spy plane?

  77. Leigh Lowe

    If the electric car points are free of charge, does that mean you pay nothing or you get nothing?
    Or both?

  78. Knuckle Dragger

    Hahaaa!

    Just saw the chinky beggar-fest story. Pics of seized bags and bags of cash that the beggars would turn over to their ‘handlers’ at the end of the day.

    Purpose-made beggar clothing they would put over their normal street clothes.

    Apparently the Salvos offered to give them accommodation, but they (all but one) refused, saying they wanted tickets back to China instead.

    I knew there was a reason I didn’t give them so much as the steam off my shit.

  79. Knuckle Dragger

    Car charging stations in Darwin. This’ll be good.

    I await news of the first halfwit that attempts to plug his mobile phone into one.

  80. DrBeauGan

    Just back from a day at the beach. Daughter was at school, so I got Maria’s ten year old nephew who normally lives in Kentucky, and is in Cuba for his first holiday here. Seeing Maria in a swimming costume made up for the substitution.

    People are pretty much the same everywhere. Kids playing in the surf, adults showing off their sexy outfits, or not. Taxi there and back, forty minutes each way. Cost 140 cuc. Afterwards, Maria used my shower and told me she had nothing under the baggy pants she wore going.

    I have been learning Spanish words apace, including the word for pussy. I told her the Australian for culo is bum. Also that “No worries” is Oz for de nada, which is approximately correct.

    The taxi threatened to fall apart, but didn’t.

    Altogether, an interesting day.

  81. Knuckle Dragger

    So, when will Mr and the new Mrs BG plus instant family return to the land of milk and honey?

  82. Cassie of Sydney

    Has the Cat turned into a blog for Cuban sex tourism?

  83. Cassie of Sydney

    “The taxi threatened to fall apart, but didn’t.”

    Pity.

  84. bespoke

    Harmless flirting Cassie that’s all, Chill.

  85. Leigh Lowe

    Has the Cat turned into a blog for Cuban sex tourism?

    He is aboard the SS Zimmerframe en route to Noumea.
    The swimsuit he is admiring is on “Jean-Claude” the pool lifeguard on board.
    “Jean-Claude” is really Darren from Bundaberg.
    Nothing is as it seems.

  86. DrBeauGan

    Cassie of Sydney
    #3097468, posted on July 5, 2019 at 7:28 am
    Has the Cat turned into a blog for Cuban sex tourism?

    Let’s say my time here has produced some surprises.

    Maria would like to emigrate. Not fussy about where.

    I have been married quite enough, KD.

  87. Up The Workers!

    “Car charging stations in Darwin. This’ll be good.

    I await news of the first halfwit that attempts to plug his mobile phone into one.”

    Or codger-mobiles!

    I have visions of driving along Highway 1 and being passed at 110kmh by a terror-stricken old codger in a supersonic mobility-scooter just charged-up at one of those outlets.

  88. Cassie of Sydney

    “Leigh Lowe
    #3097471, posted on July 5, 2019 at 7:34 am”

    LL…you always make me laugh….I love your posts!

  89. Cassie of Sydney

    “Maria would like to emigrate. Not fussy about where.”

    Clearly.

  90. DrBeauGan

    LL…you always make me laugh….I love your posts!

    I concur. But I have to say, LL, your fantasies are quite different from mine.

  91. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Not fussy about where’

    If you get backed into a corner BG, just start a discussion about the behaviour of straight lines in space.

    She’ll be banging on the door of the Venezuelan Embassy three minutes later.

  92. Cassie of Sydney

    “DrBeauGan
    #3097477, posted on July 5, 2019 at 7:48 am
    LL…you always make me laugh….I love your posts!

    I concur. But I have to say, LL, your fantasies are quite different from mine.”

    Probably….as I am pretty sure LL’s depictions are much more realistic.

  93. Appreciated. I’ve seen the (empty) charging stations at the airport, haven’t seen a Tesla up here yet – let alone a continent-circumnavigating one.

    Did a quick road trip to Mackay and back last week.
    MX5 is great on a highway cruise, except where the limit is 110 Km/hr as it is between Marlborough and Carmila. Turbo kicks in at about 3000rpm (105km/hr) and keeping below the limit once the turbo is spooling is a challenge. Below 3000prm – no problem.
    It averaged 7.5lit/km of 98 octane, which, incidentally, isn’t always available, except at Puma franchises.
    I wouldn’t run it on the crap that masquerades as standard fuel.
    They have done a deal with the RACQ which discounts 4cpl everywhere.
    I saw an EV charging station at the Puma at Marlborough, and there are sufficient of these to allow a Brisbane-Cairns trip in an electric vehicle.

    There are at least three Teslas out and about in Toowoomba.

  94. Leigh Lowe

    Just watching Shirley Valentine again.
    Compulsory viewing before entering into holiday womances.

  95. Cardimona

    Just on the Kalifornia earthquake – can any Cats link me to a credible school of thought on earthquake-solar cycle correlations?

  96. Leigh Lowe

    Toad of Toad Hall Toowoomba on the joys of the motor-car.
    Toot-toot.
    Riveting.

  97. will

    Cassie of Sydney
    #3097476, posted on July 5, 2019 at 7:47 am
    “Maria would like to emigrate. Not fussy about where.”

    Clearly.

    do you blame her? wouldn’t you in the same circumstances? who wants to live in a socialist sewer?

  98. Knuckle Dragger

    Cardimona,

    It’s a direct lift from the Book of Gaia.

    The Earth Goddess and Her prophet Greta (CO2 be upon her) warned us. It is the End of Days.

  99. Cassie of Sydney

    Which is more realistic……DrBeauGan’s Cuban fantasies or Scumber’s Toowoomba Tesla fantasies?

    I know which one is more entertaining.

  100. Leigh Lowe

    It averaged 7.5lit/km of 98 octane

    So.
    Eight kilometres on a tankful.
    Tell us again how you taught the window-lickers your own version of Spudmath.

  101. Knuckle Dragger

    Ease up LL.

    No-one conscripted you to read the Cat.

  102. will

    Cardimona
    #3097482, posted on July 5, 2019 at 7:56 am
    Just on the Kalifornia earthquake – can any Cats link me to a credible school of thought on earthquake-solar cycle correlations?

    `

    There isn’t one. In the 1970s a “science” journalist authored “The Jupiter Effect” linking the movement of the planets to earthquakes, and making predictions that never eventuated. Much like AGW, which came later.

  103. Cassie of Sydney

    “who wants to live in a socialist sewer?”

    The Catallaxy SS Guard…he loves socialist sewers…..I wonder how many Teslas are “out and about” in downtown Havana?

  104. Notafan

    Who would fall for elderly Chinese beggars in the CBD?

    That is not logical.

  105. Mater

    Eight kilometres on a tankful.
    Tell us again how you taught the window-lickers your own version of Spudmath.

    Just be thankful that he’s only an aviation enthusiast, and not a pilot.

  106. cohenite

    50 first dates in Cuba with Dr B.

  107. Eight kilometres on a tankful.

    Should read 7.5lit/100km. (Over 600km range on a 50lit tank).

    But you knew that.
    What a child.

  108. Bruce of Newcastle

    Just on the Kalifornia earthquake – can any Cats link me to a credible school of thought on earthquake-solar cycle correlations?

    Not that I know of.

  109. Notafan

    Salvation Army did some research on Melbourne CBD beggars .

    Up to $400 a day, some work six day weeks.

    Nice.

  110. DrBeauGan

    do you blame her? wouldn’t you in the same circumstances? who wants to live in a socialist sewer?

    No, I don’t blame her for wanting out, nor for exploiting my innocent nature. She’s not a bad person, just locked in to a very unattractive system. I feel sorry for her and plenty of others here. There’s nothing I can do except let her cheat me. So I do.

  111. Notafan

    Six year old in school and ten year old not.

    Seems Cubans lie as well as subcontinentals

  112. Leigh Lowe

    Can’t wait for the book:-
    “The Travails of Professor Endaway”
    “Tall tales and true from the tropical Caribbean”.

  113. woolfe

    Hope you give her lots of USD /Cucs when you leave DrB.

  114. C.L.

    At the ABC, an Aboriginal academic supports the idea that whites be banned from the beach:

    Australians love the beach, but sometimes it should be restricted to a few.

    The High Court case currently underway will determine whether traditional owners in Broome can have exclusive access to beaches and public thoroughfares.

    Elsewhere in Australia, Indigenous landowners have begun to make changes to the way their land is used …

    At [Ayers Rock] , the climb will be closed in October this year and in the Grampians National Park, Indigenous owners halted rock-climbing in one-third of the area, with further potential closures expected in other parts of Victoria…

    This is no different from the regimes that Australia’s mainstream national parks and wildlife agencies use to conserve Australia’s protected areas.

    In this anxiety over Indigenous people making decisions, it is easy to overlook the fact that we are welcoming, peaceful and deeply care for your safety.

    … as we are Indigenous, safety also means a cultural and spiritual safety.

    From our perspective, if a climb is closed or a beach is restricted or fishing rights negotiated, these changes are a gift to the public — they are a compact of our care towards you.

    The author: Dr Emma Lee is a Trawlwulwuy woman from Tebrakunna country, in north-east Tasmania.

  115. Six year old in school and ten year old not.
    Seems Cubans lie as well as subcontinentals

  116. Leigh Lowe

    Salvation Army did some research on Melbourne CBD beggars .

    Up to $400 a day, some work six day weeks.

    I watched a bloke near my regular coffee shop a few times.
    The cycle time on the traffic lights was about 3 minutes total.
    He barely missed a collect on the light change.
    Probably about 50:50 silver and gold coins.
    You do the math.
    No … not you Spud.
    Another boy, please.

  117. Six year old in school and ten year old not.
    Seems Cubans lie as well as subcontinentals

    For your daily dose of mindless stereotyping, simply visit Catallaxy.
    It’s guaranteed.

  118. Dr Faustus

    This helpful map suggests you could indeed drive an EV from Brisbane to Cairns. but only assuming you were driving a top of the range Tesla, or similar high-capacity battery model. A Nissan Leaf would leave you on the side of the road well south of Tully.

    Stopping at the High Power stations and recharging fully this would only add six hours to the normal 24 hour ICE trip time.

    A bit of a bugger if you wanted to drive there from Toowoomba, though. You’d have to go to Brisbane and up the coast because there appear to be zero charging stations along the Gregory Highway.

    Similarly, a trip from (say) Brisbane to Mt Isa would:

    a) Be bum puckering, the distance between charging points is right at the Tesla 100kW battery maximum range; and
    b) take about a week – all standard voltage stations, which take 12 hours for a 100% charge.

    Again, the poor little Nissan Leaf would be stuck somewhere around Roma.

    But nothing that a few tens of billions of infrastructure spending won’t fix.

  119. Geriatric Mayfly

    CA earthquake in the Mojave desert. Very, very hot place in summer. Therefore global warming will have been the prime mover and shaker.

  120. Cassie of Sydney

    The SS guard loves visiting this site because he loves to stereotype……particularly about certain religious adherents whom he clearly loathes. What did he call them again….ah that’s right…..”religious extremists”.

    SS guard aka Scumbers = hypocrisy. It’s guaranteed.

  121. Notafan

    Is it true or not true that lying is more common in some groups than others.

    Stupid lies at that.

    In the fauxcatholic’s case, he objects because lying is his mo too.

  122. DrBeauGan

    Six year old in school and ten year old not.
    Seems Cubans lie as well as subcontinentals

    The ten year old was on his first holiday in Cuba from a home in rural Kentucky. Or so I was told. His parents were related to Maria, who he called his Nana.

  123. Notafan

    That would be one great great grandmother worth of aboriginality.

  124. Knuckle Dragger

    I say let them have the beach.

    Just take away the services that come with the beach industry. All that stuff that keeps money coming into the area.

    Then they can sit on their beach. And starve on it.

  125. Lilliana

    “Maria would like to emigrate. Not fussy about where.”

    And what does she have to offer a new country? Is she a doctor, scientist, engineer?

  126. Mater

    This helpful map suggests you could indeed drive an EV from Brisbane to Cairns. but only assuming you were driving a top of the range Tesla, or similar high-capacity battery model. A Nissan Leaf would leave you on the side of the road well south of Tully.

    And be thankful for the warmer weather of Queensland.

    Tesla Model 3 — Cold Weather Tips

    …As noted above, batteries don’t perform well in the cold — they don’t discharge as fast, which means less power. Cold batteries don’t charge as fast which is why regen is reduced.

    However that’s mostly a technicality since there are a number of other factors that make all cars less efficient when cold. And in the case of the Tesla, both the cabin heater and the battery heater use extra juice.
    It seems to depend on your situation — some people are saying 5% reduction, and others are saying 30% or more. Note also, the range estimates are said not to take temperature into account, so will tend to estimate optimistically.

    If you are taking short trips, this extra heating load will be drain the battery more quickly. The battery heater will be on whenever your battery is not at a suitable temperature, then turn off after a while. If your trips are short or the battery is very cold, the battery will be heating whenever you drive.

  127. Geriatric Mayfly

    Private beaches in Europe and elsewhere have always struck me as being the ultimate symbols of elitism.

  128. Cardimona

    Thanks, Cats.
    I’ll add that one to the wrongology list.

  129. Old School Conservative

    Leigh Lowe
    #3097487, posted on July 5, 2019 at 8:00 am
    It averaged 7.5lit/km of 98 octane

    So.
    Eight kilometres on a tankful.
    Tell us again how you taught the window-lickers your own version of Spudmath.

    Ll rivals Tom for generating hearty laughs this morning.

  130. DrBeauGan

    And what does she have to offer a new country? Is she a doctor, scientist, engineer?

    Not much. She can cook and clean. She learnt her English from watching movies, she has told me.

    The low value of third world immigrants to Oz has been mentioned above. I find the pathos of it hard to bear.

  131. JC

    Geriatric Mayfly
    #3097519, posted on July 5, 2019 at 8:47 am

    Private beaches in Europe and elsewhere have always struck me as being the ultimate symbols of elitism.

    They’re great and it keeps out the riff raff. I was told 80% of Italian beaches are in private hands. You pay for the use and get an umbrella and even clean towels. It’s a very good idea. French beaches are also likely to be the same.

  132. JC

    One other thing to chew on.. Cars in Europe are generally quite small and would be hard to transport beach umbrellas.

  133. Geriatric Mayfly

    They’re great and it keeps out the riff raff. I was told 80% of Italian beaches are in private hands. You pay for the use and get an umbrella and even clean towels. It’s a very good idea. French beaches are also likely to be the same.

    Point taken JC given the swarming riff raff that is now barging into Europe. Can’t imagine our Native brothers and sisters running down the beach to our beck and call, with umbrellas and clean towels. The payment part however, they would handle with ease.

  134. Dr Faustus

    And be thankful for the warmer weather of Queensland.

    Always.
    Until you turn on the air-con and drop 100km off your driving range.

  135. Tom

    Trump’s Independence Day speech is a ripper — paying tribute to all the touchy-feely stuff like America’s great humanitarians, medical pioneers and social service leaders, etc. All the left’s fantasies that he would ride up Pennsylvania in an Abrams tank, a pirate’s scabbard between his teeth, have been dashed.

  136. John Constantine

    Which essential skills visa does organised crime use to mass import crippled octagenarian street beggers into australias cities?.

    Importing chicom peasants to rent and be locked into illegal marijuana growhouses out bush is a staple of organised crime.

    The beggers and dope growers and abalone poachers and visa scammers never dob in the crimelords, by the existence of the worker drones we can see the shadow of the crime syndicates, but funny enough vikpol only ever catch the bottom level.

    The top level of the crime syndicates go to ten thousand dollar a table political fundraisers and hand donor cheques over thinking they are paying bribes to operate as protected criminals in australia. Not the way it works of course, they are protected not because of the bribes, but because they are needed to actively overthrow the failing colonialist capitalist settlement that was australia.

    Comrade Maaaaates.

  137. Percy Popinjay

    he would ride up Pennsylvania in an Abrams tank, a pirate’s scabbard between his teeth

    Very disappointing he didn’t. The mass head explosions would have been epic.

  138. Tom

    … Pennnsylvania Avenue …

  139. cohenite

    Elsewhere in Australia, Indigenous landowners have begun to make changes to the way their land is used …

    This is not going to end well

  140. John Constantine

    When the crime syndicates import disposable peasants to dive for abalone and strip shellfish and poach lobster, they never tell them about great white sharks in the same waters.

    The stripping of easy reach valuable seafood from South Africa has about wiped stocks out, australia next.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/2164934/abalone-demand-chinese-gangs-depletes-south-africas-supply-costs-country

  141. DrBeauGan

    The Cuban education system is hopeless. They don’t learn English, nor any other useful skills so far as I can see. Possibly they are trained to love the leaders of la Revolucion. It doesn’t seem to have worked in Maria’s case.

    It’s also the way things are headed here, except that we’ll get extra perversions.

  142. Confused Old Misfit

    Trump’s Independence Day speech is a ripper

    Has he uttered the pronoun “I” yet?

  143. Geriatric Mayfly

    Elsewhere in Australia, Indigenous landowners have begun to make changes to the way their land is used </em

    One what the aspirational rate is for goannas to the hectare.

  144. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    The stripping of easy reach valuable seafood from South Africa has about wiped stocks out, australia next.

    millions of chicom party members demand abalone and cognac

  145. Lilliana

    Elsewhere in Australia, Indigenous landowners have begun to make changes to the way their land is used …

    OK – stop welfare. medical care, housing etc. Let them eat witchety grubs and live under a shrub.

  146. If you buy an EV and then decide to use it for long distance driving, you’ve got rocks in your head.
    Having said that, the Koreans are building cheaper EVs that are challenging the range offerings of the pricey Teslas.
    They are particularly suited to regional centres (such as Toowoomba) where you can charge slowly at home a few times a week, which easily allows for a daily work commute, and avoid buying fuel and $300 a throw services every 10000kms.
    Watch Kia and Hyundai.

  147. Tom

    Has he uttered the pronoun “I” yet?

    Not a one. Obambi he ain’t!

  148. Dr Faustus

    In Stating the Bleeding Obvious news:

    An Australian released from North Korea shouldn’t go back because his detention could have ended ‘very differently’, Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton says.

    “My advice would be pretty clear, I would stay in Japan. I would go back to South Korea … I would come back to Australia. All of those would have to be better options before he returns to North Korea,”

    It’s official. Australia is a “better option” than North Korea.

  149. Percy Popinjay

    It’s official. Australia is a “better option” than North Korea.

    For the time being.

  150. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Only liberty hating morons and peons with a slave mentality do not cheer on the Yanks on this glorious day.

    Please stand for the REAL national anthem of the US, including the Kennedy quote.

  151. Knuckle Dragger

    If the Abrams didn’t chew up the bitumen under its tracks, I suspect that’s exactly what the Donald would have done.

    If he wasn’t taking the salute he should have been leading the parade on a white charger like Zhukov in 1945.

  152. Confused Old Misfit

    I want to thank….

    I invite the first lady…

    That’s 2!!!
    OMG!!!

  153. MatrixTransform

    W

    hat a child.

    Whssamatter Numpty?

    …you drive over a rake or something?

  154. mh

    “Maria would like to emigrate. Not fussy about where.”

    And what does she have to offer a new country? Is she a doctor, scientist, engineer?

    Maria offers vag. Not to be dismissed lightly.

    I’m quite enjoying Dr BG’s Cuban tales. Definitely his best work on the Cat since I’ve been here.

  155. Dr Faustus

    Adani mine opponents vow to ‘stop’ Brisbane with protest

    The march follows a similar protest a fortnight ago, which caused major headaches for travellers.

    “We won’t go quietly into the night,” Ms Robertson said.

    In a properly organised world, Mz Robertson would be researching the effects of water canon and a brisk baton charge on going quietly into the night.

  156. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘stop Brisbane’

    They should bring in a dozen Clermont locals, kit them out with riggers’ gloves and lengths of doubled-over barbed wire and set them loose on the ‘frontline’ finch-botherers.

    The streets would be clear in seven minutes, allowing for disentanglements.

  157. Confused Old Misfit

    Whoever was the camera director for the “Salute To America” should be sacked.

  158. If he wasn’t taking the salute he should have been leading the parade on a white charger like Zhukov in 1945.

    Strange that Fatty 5D* wasn’t so keen on the military in 1968.

    * Also known as the Prince of Whales.

  159. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    numbies are you going to enlighten us with your gun skills? did you even fire the thing in ‘nam? stop teasing

  160. Confused Old Misfit

    The most offensive weapon numpties was allowed to carry was a potato peeler.

  161. Boambee John

    Strange that Fatty 5D* wasn’t so keen on the military in 1968.

    * Also known as the Prince of Whales.

    A combination of TDS and perseveration would be a fascinating study for a competent psychologist.

  162. Leigh Lowe

    They’re great and it keeps out the riff raff. I was told 80% of Italian beaches are in private hands. You pay for the use and get an umbrella and even clean towels. It’s a very good idea. French beaches are also likely to be the same.

    The easiest way to get onto an Itie beach is via reffo barge from North Africa.

  163. JB of Sydney/Shanghai

    Surprising that Shanghai, a prosperous, low crime, clean, thriving city of about 25,000,000 doesn’t have Chinese street beggars, yet Melbourne, does.
    I wonder why can this be?
    Any Cats have views on this interesting state of affairs, and how it came about

  164. Knuckle Dragger

    The salient point is not so much that DJT never showed films to other rear-echelon types in Vietnam, but that the military punters love him and all he stands for.

    He was speaking to a packed-out crowd on a military base a year or so ago, and whilst on stage he was offered a jacket with the insignia of, and usually reserved for, a particular SF unit.

    He refused to put it on, telling the crowd he hadn’t earned the right to wear it, and that he’d only wear it with approval of people in that unit.

    Thousands roared back. ‘PUT IT ON! PUT IT ON!’

    He put it on. The joint went berserk.

    Imagine the Chicago communist trying that. They’d be selling his toes individually for five bucks apiece in the carpark ten minutes later.

  165. Geriatric Mayfly

    Imagine the Chicago communist trying that. They’d be selling his toes individually for five bucks apiece in the carpark ten minutes later.

    Not before a round of ‘Eeneie, meenie minee, mo …’

  166. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Kotaku steals a Mario Maker level off a kid.

  167. “Boambee John
    #3097568, posted on July 5, 2019 at 9:42 am

    A combination of TDS and perseveration would be a fascinating study for a competent psychologist.”

    The SS guard needs a panel of competent psychologists and psychiatrists.

  168. politichix

    The British Court of Appeal gets it…

    “The mere expression of views on theological grounds (e.g. that ‘homosexuality is a sin’) does not necessarily connote that the person expressing such views will discriminate on such grounds. In the present case, there was positive evidence to suggest that the Appellant had never discriminated on such grounds in the past and was not likely to do so in the future (because, as he explained, the Bible prohibited him from discriminating against anybody.)”

  169. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    I’m torn, Duncan. Real American and America Fuck Yeah are both great.

  170. stackja

    M 3.3 – 14km ENE of Ridgecrest, CA
    Time 2019-07-04 23:54:36 (UTC)
    Location 35.657°N 117.522°W
    Depth 1.7 km

  171. Knuckle Dragger

    Duncanm;

    Bwahahaaa…

    ‘Do you have any idea how fuckin’ busy I am?’

    Never gets old.

  172. max

    Doc,in my very limited experience of third world women, a taken-for-granted basic like good underwear can be in short supply. Perhaps a shopping trip. It costs little.

  173. Old School Conservative

    President Trump wants America to go back to the moon and also plant the American flag on Mars.
    I think the word “aspirational” doesn’t come close.
    Go you magnificent bastard.

  174. The Whitehouse staff giving away free tickets, but Washingtonians had better things to do.

  175. Oh come on

    Strange that Fatty 5D* wasn’t so keen on the military in 1968.

    * Also known as the Prince of Whales.

    That was awful. Never attempt to be funny again.

  176. C.L.

    The British Court of Appeal gets it…

    Not entirely. Be wary.

    In the present case, there was positive evidence to suggest that the Appellant had never discriminated on such grounds in the past and was not likely to do so in the future ….

    The appellant’s lack of desire to ‘discriminate’ against homosexuals should not be the ratio decidendi for upholding his appeal. He has an absolute right to express his “views on theological grounds (e.g. that ‘homosexuality is a sin’)” quite regardless of whether or not he has ‘discriminated’ – or intends to ‘discriminate’ – against homosexuals. The words “In the present case” demonstrate that the court was itching to reject his appeal and will do so in the future where ‘discrimination’ is supposedly established. If a man has the right to express his “views on theological grounds,” it must follow – as a matter of liberty and principle – that he also has the right not to employ a homosexual tutor or ironing lady. He shouldn’t have to justify why he commercially favours, employs or associates with anyone (or doesn’t). That is none of the state’s business.

  177. Fatty 5D’s sideshow not popular with his commanders.

    Army Chief of Staff General Mark Milley and his Navy, Air Force and Marine counterparts will not attend, and instead plan to send deputies. The only service chief set to attend is Coast Guard Commandant Admiral Karl Schultz.

    Four out of five had better things to do.
    The commanders can smell bullshit a mile away..

  178. Mater

    The Whitehouse staff giving away free tickets, but Washingtonians had better things to do.

    Putting aside the fact that this is a report from The Guardian; that is not even what the article infers.
    Did you even read it, or did you just jump down the page to the Democrat talking points?

    But White House aides have reportedly struggled to draw crowds to the event because of the last minute arrangements. Congress is not in session, and Washington typically becomes quieter over the holiday, as residents escape the city’s summer heat.

  179. politichix

    He shouldn’t have to justify why he commercially favours, employs or associates with anyone (or doesn’t). That is none of the state’s business.

    Good point

  180. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    God bless these United States.

    Anyone against the US Declaration of Independence, and scurrilously calls the US War of Independence a “revolution” (they were already independent); is a leftist stooge.

  181. C.L.

    In the present case, there was positive evidence to suggest that the Appellant had never discriminated on such grounds in the past and was not likely to do so in the future.

    Note also that the court regards as exculpatory “evidence” that he hadn’t done things unrelated to the charge. This is a corruption of the rule of law. Prosecutions have to present evidence that a defendant has broken a specific law or laws; for an acquittal, the defence doesn’t have to provide so-called “positive evidence” that his general social and political behaviour offsets his personal beliefs (otherwise indictable). A perfect analogy would be to arraign a man who booed at an AFL match and only let him off because he mows the pitch and does canteen duty at his son’s junior fixtures.

    1. He should never have been charged in the first place.
    2. He shouldn’t have to prove he is of good (politically correct) character to be acquitted.

    Like I said, be very wary of this phony libertarian decision.

  182. notafan

    More egregious lying from the Fauxatholic I see.

  183. Mother Lode

    That was awful. Never attempt to be funny again.

    Lefties are not so good at humour. They try to mimic the experience of humour by substituting abuse of people they hate. They get a thrill from joining in with other people in hatred.

    Just look at what passes for humour on the ABC. Look at what is passed off as sit in their commentary.

    No insight, no surprising juxtapositions, no clever word usage.

    Just variations of ‘Trump is fat”. Or “Tony Abbott is very Catholic”.

    That is it.

  184. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    The left, cannot meme.

    They know it.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/04/07/axelrod_democrats_are_unprepared_for_meme_war_against_donald_trump.html

    Axelrod said Democrats are in “uncharted waters” when it comes to responding to Trump’s use of the new generation of social media. “You have a president who is going to be live tweeting the opposite party’s primary — you better believe when anything happens in the Democratic race, he will have a comment. He will advance a meme like this and Democrats are going to have to figure out how to deal with it.”

    “Elizabeth Warren got into the back and forth on the Pocahontas thing,” he explained. “And what she learned, I think, is that engaging in a long back and forth with him is what he wants. It’s a tricky, tricky path to navigate.”

  185. Twostix

    From our perspective, if a climb is closed or a beach is restricted or fishing rights negotiated, these changes are a gift to the public — they are a compact of our care towards you.

    Lol the very definition of chutzpah.

    Your “ownership” that we’ve given you will be rescinded as soon as we want or need it back, you know.

  186. Anthony

    I can’t find video of Trump’s speech anywhere even on Fox. Where is it?

  187. C.L.

    In fact …
    I would go so far as to say the British appeals court decision was actually establishing rules for similar prosecutions and appeals in the future – to the effect that if you cannot ‘offset’ your personal (incorrect) opinions with “positive evidence” you’re otherwise politically neutral, you will be successfully convicted.

  188. Mater

    Four out of five had better things to do.
    The commanders can smell bullshit a mile away..

    Perhaps the Service Chiefs had made prior arrangements, like perhaps spending the celebrations with their respective men and women who are deployed around the world. Perhaps they had other, more operationally urgent, matters to attend to.
    Trump should be lauded for NOT ordering them to break these arrangements, for his own personal vanity.
    Isn’t it refreshing to have such a pragmatic President in the Whitehouse?

  189. Roger

    The appellant’s lack of desire to ‘discriminate’ against homosexuals should not be the ratio decidendi for upholding his appeal.

    In the UK freedom to manifest one’s religious beliefs is a qualified right to be balanced against the interests of others under the rubric of fairness; that’s why the Court of Appeal had to address the matter of discrimination.

  190. Helen

    From CL’s link

    In this anxiety over Indigenous people making decisions, it is easy to overlook the fact that we are welcoming, peaceful and deeply care for your safety.

    and we care deeply for your continued tax donations to all things indigineous, even if it means you cant use them any more, you should still pay for their upkeep.

  191. Putting aside the fact that this is a report from The Guardian; that is not even what the article infers.

    I’m not interested in “inferences” – only facts.
    The webcam at the National Mall was abruptly shut down without notice and has been removed from the http://whitehouse.gov site. Presumably to stop viewers from seeing the lack of attendees at the #TrumpParade. We are about to relive Trump’s inauguration all over again.

  192. notafan

    Any Cats have views on this interesting state of affairs, and how it came about

    Flown in from China on tourist visas and first exposed on Reddit a week or so ago.

    They claim to have seen the group meet up before leaving the city together on a train.

    “Each evening they are led by a middle-aged woman and they speak Mandarin to each other with what sounds like a Dongguan dialect,” the user wrote.

    “I have seen five older Asian women who are the main panhandlers. This video shows three of them.”

    Clearly someone with very good Mandarin skills

  193. God bless these United States.

    God blessed the United States.

  194. stackja

    M 2.7 – 14km W of Searles Valley, CA
    Time 2019-07-05 00:33:19 (UTC)
    Location 35.744°N 117.556°W
    Depth 5.4 km

  195. notafan

    Stereotype alert

    I remember seeing young gypsies from a similar ring in France.

  196. dover_beach

    The appellant’s lack of desire to ‘discriminate’ against homosexuals should not be the ratio decidendi for upholding his appeal. He has an absolute right to express his “views on theological grounds (e.g. that ‘homosexuality is a sin’)” quite regardless of whether or not he has ‘discriminated’ – or intends to ‘discriminate’ – against homosexuals.

    I think that is right and to be expected. If A believes X to be regularly engaged in acts that are sinful and is not at all morally concerned about it, A is perfectly entitled to exercise his discretion where he thinks it appropriate and not in others. Say, not employing a tutor that engages in sex with other men but being fine with a plumber or a florist that does.

    Note also that the court regards as exculpatory “evidence” that he hadn’t done things unrelated to the charge. This is a corruption of the rule of law. Prosecutions have to present evidence that a defendant has broken a specific law or laws; for an acquittal, the defense doesn’t have to provide so-called “positive evidence” that his general social and political behaviour offsets his personal beliefs (otherwise indictable).

    I just think the use of ‘positive evidence’ was very poor wording. The only thing that makes sense of that statement is that the defendant could not produce any evidence that the appellant had discriminated in the past.

  197. dover_beach

    In the UK freedom to manifest one’s religious beliefs is a qualified right to be balanced against the interests of others under the rubric of fairness

    Liberalism always has a finger on the scale of justice.

  198. Mater

    I’m not interested in “inferences” – only facts.

    Mmmmm…..

    The Whitehouse staff giving away free tickets, but Washingtonians had better things to do.

  199. C.L.

    In the UK freedom to manifest one’s religious beliefs is a qualified right to be balanced against the interests of others under the rubric of fairness; that’s why the Court of Appeal had to address the matter of discrimination.

    I know.
    The appellant should not have to prove he hasn’t done something.
    The state has to prove that he has done something.
    More specifically: a) his freedom to express Christian beliefs has nothing to do with b) has he ever ‘discriminated’ against homosexuals? This would mean if the state can establish that a man once refused to bake a cake for a homosexual couple that his liberty to express theological opinions is terminated. Terminated permanently.

  200. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    I wonder if you stole from those “beggars” if they’d report it to the cops.

    Chopper Read style anti-vigilantism might be a cheap solution.

    “Hey! Some jerk stole my money I defrauded off suckers!”

  201. Bruce of Newcastle

    President Trump wants America to go back to the moon and also plant the American flag on Mars. I think the word “aspirational” doesn’t come close.

    So did Obama. Several times in fact. I know which between Obama and Trump I’d expect more likely to actually do it.

    Obama continued to hone his space policy over the course of the campaign, finally releasing, in August, a seven-page plan for “Advancing the Frontiers of Space Exploration” explicitly endorsing sending human missions to the Moon by 2020.

    Instead he spent his entire Presidency renting rockets from the Russians and advocating NASA outreach to mueslis.

  202. Tel

    Liberalism always has a finger on the scale of justice.

    The people calling themselves “Liberal” have kidnapped the name, and find it useful only as a mask for stealth purposes.

  203. candy

    A happy entertaining day out for Americans. Flyovers, fireworks and who would not enjoy seeing the tanks go through manoeuvres. I think kids would be thrilled with all that. Trump understands people.

    Biden says it’s about Trump’s ego. After these last years, you’d think Dems would learn to say positive things like Salute to America is great and hope everyone enjoys their day. But no, must be miserable. Even Dem supporters must find Biden tedious and dull.

  204. Helen

    Anyone who has lived or does live in the NT, please do this survey. It is skewed at the moment apparently because tourists are filling it out and we need more long term dwellers, lifers if possible, to contribute.

    NT SURVEY

  205. Knuckle Dragger

    How does one ‘advance the frontiers of space exploration’ by doing something that was done 50 years ago?

    Or…… WAS it?

  206. notafan

    I wonder if you stole from those “beggars” if they’d report it to the cops.

    Chopper Read style anti-vigilantism might be a cheap solution.

    “Hey! Some jerk stole my money I defrauded off suckers!”

    I think fake Chinese beggars in the CBD would be fairly vulnerable to other beggars now, however they were clearly handing off takings to their handler throughout the day. so they would not get much if they did do a standover.

    Reminds me of the guy who used to beg in front of Myer in the Sudney CBD a few years back who admitted to taking in over $70,000 PA, after foolishly agreeing to be interviewed by a newspaper.

    Is he still around?

  207. P

    John Roskam has an article in the Financial Review today:
    “Folau has set a minefield for bosses” (paywalled) for those who can open it.
    I have read it but dot not wish to comment.

  208. Roger

    This would mean if the state can establish that a man once refused to bake a cake for a homosexual couple that his liberty to express theological opinions is terminated. Terminated permanently.

    I don’t think so because that would not be a proportionate response. UK law is quite careful to guard against over reach by the authorities and in that jurisdiction the inalienable right to freedom of religion – which includes the right to manifest one’s beliefs publicly – is enshrined in an Act of Parliament.

  209. stackja

    Anthony
    #3097614, posted on July 5, 2019 at 10:33 am
    I can’t find video of Trump’s speech anywhere even on Fox. Where is it?

    WH Salute to America

    The White House
    Streamed live 3 hours ago

    Repeat

  210. Confused Old Misfit

    How does one ‘advance the frontiers of space exploration’ by doing something that was done 50 years ago?

    You replicate the experiment to provide more robust empirical data.

  211. Roger

    John Roskam has an article in the Financial Review today

    Also available at the IPA website.

    A bit soft, I thought.

  212. dover_beach

    The people calling themselves “Liberal” have kidnapped the name, and find it useful only as a mask for stealth purposes.

    I would have said the same 10 years ago, however, further reflection suggests that this is being too charitable to liberalism.

  213. Roger

    Cue more laws to bolster religious privilege:

    I wonder if any of the commenters would be happy to have their employment terminated and their contract not paid out because their employer objected to what they posted at Crikey?

  214. duncanm

    “.. and what will do you, Hans?”

    “We will be very angry.. and we will write a letter to tell you how angry we are”

    “.. a little to the left Hans”

  215. Roger

    I would have said the same 10 years ago, however, further reflection suggests that this is being too charitable to liberalism.

    It would be helpful if you defined liberalism as you see it, dover.

    You’ve previously referenced Hobbes, but most classical liberals would regard Locke as the father of liberalism.

  216. Bubbles

    Off to the Bolshoi tonight to see Spartacus.
    Looking forward to that.
    Obviously, socialist ticket pricing is a thing of the past. Fish heads and rice for the next month.

  217. Helen Davidson (nmrn)

    Anyone who has lived or does live in the NT, please do this survey.

    Done.

    I’ve forwarded the link on to a few friends as well.

  218. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Well.

    In honour of Trump on the 4 July.

    He likes KFC, Babish says it is a “fast food masterclass” and gives a fast food masterclass.

  219. Mark A

    Roger
    #3097653, posted on July 5, 2019 at 11:18 am

    John Roskam has an article in the Financial Review today

    Also available at the IPA website.

    A bit soft, I thought.

    In the long term we’re far more likely to be able to live together in a community, if whatever sanctions of Folau or Rugby Australia we deem appropriate are enforced not by the courts or the Parliament – but by public opinion.

    A lot soft, motherhood statements

  220. stackja

    Public opinion: $2m for Israel F.

Comments are closed.