Guest post for a friend of Barnaby Joyce on the abortion debate in NSW

Not into marching against abortion holding a placard?
That’s cool; I’m not either, plus I’m too far away from most places…

But we could sign Barnaby Joyce’s petition and share the link widely.

Support Life!

Human life is not just some property right.
The indivisible right to life occurs long before birth. These rights should not be removed by Parliament.

But this is the exact proposal put forward by activist MPs in the New South Wales Parliament.

The extreme laws before the NSW Parliament will allow late term abortion.
All life is sacred, particularly those of children. Our representatives should be protecting life, not sanctioning the opposite.

But the New South Wales Parliament is trying to rush through radical abortion laws without proper consultation.

The hour of birth is an arbitrary point in modern medicine, and as a society, we should cherish and hold true the protection of human life – particularly the most vulnerable. And the most vulnerable people in our society are the children that are unborn.

Every life is a miracle. Every life is miraculous.
The legislation put forward in the New South Wales Parliament is among the most extreme in the world.

This debate cannot be rushed. This debate cannot be stifled.

We, the undersigned, are urging the New South Wales Parliament to establish a Parliamentary Inquiry into the proposed abortion legislation – including consideration of adoption processes in New South Wales to reflect the realities of families and their individual circumstances – before putting it to a vote.

Show your support for life by signing this petition.

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110 Responses to Guest post for a friend of Barnaby Joyce on the abortion debate in NSW

  1. Cassie of Sydney

    I’ve signed.

  2. RCon

    Wow

    The swing to the conservative right on this site is quite something to behold.

    Every individual is sovereign, unless of course you’re a woman.

    If you’re signing the petition to remove a woman’s right to choose, can you point me toward your support for laws aimed at holding the fathers responsible?

  3. Cardimona

    As a baby you lived inside your Mum – entirely dependent on her support systems – for 280 days.

    After your birth you live inside your society – entirely dependent on its support systems – for 31,000 days, if you live to 85.

    You were no less a human with the right to live inside your Mum than you are inside your society, RCon.

    Prove me wrong.

  4. Cardimona

    I hardly think 280 days of inconvenience is sufficient reason to commit infanticide.

    Again, prove me wrong.

  5. Cardimona

    Perhaps we should let murderers out of gaol after 280 days…

    Because of a murderer’s “right to choose”, of course.

  6. pbw

    RCon,

    The swing to the conservative right on this site is quite something to behold.

    Like Ron Paul, you mean? He was an obstetrician, and was strongly pro-life. Maybe the two are related.

    Every individual is sovereign…

    Sounds like a pro-life position. Every individual certainly has the right to protection under law against being arbitrarily killed.

  7. Sean from Adelaide

    Nobody ‘likes’ abortion and maybe the bill currently before NSW parliament goes too far… but I have zero respect for the opinions of someone who only 18 months ago was lecturing me on the ‘sanctity of of marriage’ while simultaneously doing the exact opposite… in secret I should add because he didn’t want his electorate to know till he was ready to tell them. Hypocrisy much?

  8. Tintarella di Luna

    I babysat a clump of cells this evening

  9. billie

    isn’t the parliament just confirming a woman’s rights, that should have passed into history long ago?

    wtf is going on?

    40 years ago we all supported a woman’s right to choose and it’s her right alone to choose.

    this is done and dusted

    it goes with the release of woman from drudge and toil by the technology, cheap energy and the afluence of our age, birth control is free choice

  10. Robbie

    The people who advocate a woman’s body and her right to choose – could they please think of the child in the womb who is about to go through a brutal ‘procedure’, literally having limbs torn from the body without any pain meds. What if that child were a girl? What about her right to not be tortured to death. Did you think of that? That’s a human you are physically destroying. Cheers!

  11. Cardimona

    birth control is free choice

    Birth control = taking a pill or slipping on a sheath. It means the sperm and the ovum never meet.

    Abortion = taking a human life (murder).

    See the difference?

  12. Cardimona

    I babysat a clump of cells this evening

    Good times, Tinta; good times!

  13. Fat Tony

    RCon
    #3121767, posted on August 2, 2019 a

    You’re a pathetic sack of shit.
    How come the ones who support abortion were never aborted?
    Fuck you.

  14. Fat Tony

    billie
    #3121800, posted on August 2, 2019 at 11:04 pm
    isn’t the parliament just confirming a woman’s rights,

    And the baby has no rights???
    Fuck you too – another sad sack of shit

  15. pbw

    billie,

    this is done and dusted

    Fortunately, no.

    …truth will come to light; murder cannot be hid long…

  16. billie

    birth control is birth control, however accomplished

    you have your definition and good luck to you

    angry people get abusive, meh

  17. Muddy

    I’ve always thought the phrases conception control or conception prevention, are more accurate than birth control.

  18. Muddy

    ‘Lifestyle homicide’ is an interesting phrase too.

  19. Fat Tony

    pbw
    #3121829, posted on August 2, 2019 at 11:35 pm
    Fat Tony,

    Tut, tut. Manners, please.

    What? Use good manners on murdering shit? That’s what got us here.

  20. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    How is late-term abortion “respectful to women”?*

    Late-term abortion was never a thing. “Safe, rare and legal…” so Hillary and Bill were not respecting of da women?

    Every individual is sovereign, unless of course you’re a woman.

    After 22-26 weeks, you can’t come to a decision?

    Life begins at conception. That is simple biology.

    The better medical science gets, the younger life becomes viable at.

    We’re going to have legal abortions past viable life.

    I don’t think that ought to be tolerated.

    If you’re signing the petition to remove a woman’s right to choose, can you point me toward your support for laws aimed at holding the fathers responsible?

    Uh oh. Sounds like you’ve been cucked hard.

    Fathers are more than responsible. Men are more likely net taxpayers than women and suffer very strict financial penalties for relationship breakdowns and child support. That is, they usually pay for their own kids and also someone else’s.

    The implication that all pregnancies arise from sexual assault (“responsible” – can’t the woman use the pill or have her partner use a condom?) is really the territory of the lunar left.

    *Shilling for multiple abortions doesn’t help women – it lowers their biological capacity to give birth.

  21. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    billie
    #3121833, posted on August 2, 2019 at 11:45 pm

    birth control is birth control, however accomplished

    Killing the mother as well?

    Obviously, you made an inflammatory and extreme statement.

    Contraception isn’t hard. Abortion is not a contraceptive.

  22. bespoke

    Singed Cardimona, We have differences on when life begins (mine is brain activity). But that is a battle to have after this death cult is defeated.

  23. 1735099

    Wrong petition.
    I’d sign a petition that was going to lower the rate of late term abortions.
    This one won’t .
    Barnarby Joyce needs to come up with some measure that will actually work, including compliance by fathers so they share the life changing consequences of an unplanned pregnancy with the mother.
    Very few women conceive all by themselves.

  24. bespoke

    Point to who thinks a father’s should’t contribute to raising the kids, 1735099?

  25. Jannie

    I know people who are vegetarians because they don’t like to kill animals. Fair enough. Some people are pro life because they don’t like to kill humans, or watch others kill the innocent and helpless. But strangely enough, there are vegetarians who support abortion.

  26. Robber Baron

    Cut government spending.

    Restrict government taxing powers.

    No money. No power.

  27. I understand that nearly 1,000,000 children are murdered each year in the US because of such abhorrent views (just look at the reasons). Some may be justified, most are not. Now some US states are pushing to allow the murder of children post-birth. How soon before it becomes, not just acceptable, but policy to murder the the old, infirm, etc.

    And now Australia is following the trend. How woke!

  28. Cardimona

    964 signatures overnight.

  29. Nostradamus

    Oh Yeah … its a woman’s choice. FFS! and its all very fine until the body parts trade gets up and running. Then pundits for that enterprise (profiteering doctors and clinics of reknown) will be maintaining that it is a practice wisely contributing to life as well

  30. Tintarella di Luna

    I have a bad taste in my mouth when I mention the UN but the preamble of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child which had its precursor in the Geneva Declaration on the Rights of the Child it says:

    Bearing in mind that, as indicated in the Declaration of the Rights of the Child, “the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth”,

    If you ever have any doubt about the intent of a person or organisation have a look the action — it’s not what you say it’s what you do — actions are declaratory.

  31. A Lurker

    Every individual is sovereign…

    Except if you are an infant in the womb.

    I’d like to know what is driving this legislation. Perhaps the lure of big dollars for foetus parts may lie at the heart of this issue? Perhaps we should follow the money trail and see who in the NSW parliament is promoting this legislation and if they are set to financially benefit from it.

  32. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    If you ever have any doubt about the intent of a person or organisation have a look the action — it’s not what you say it’s what you do — actions are declaratory.

    Given the way the external affairs power is treated with penultimate reverence by our High Court, wow. Conservatives might be onto something here.

  33. Zatara

    If you’re signing the petition to remove a woman’s right to choose …

    What if one is signing the petition to preserve the concept that the baby’s right to live trumps a woman’s right to convenience?

    “…. can you point me toward your support for laws aimed at holding the fathers responsible?”

    Certainly. Do a search for “Child Support Laws”.

    Or if you really want to read what a perversion can be made of this and how it’s weighted towards women search “paternity fraud“.

  34. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    “…. can you point me toward your support for laws aimed at holding the fathers responsible?”

    What else can men be responsible for?

    You’d have to be willfully ignorant to not understand how men pay for their own kids, often unfairly and also for other people’s little bastards, which is always unfair.

    Or that men are more often than women net taxpayers. Or the shocking rate of paternity fraud: in the UK 10-19% of mothers misidentify the father for child support payments.*

    All of this and women initiate divorce more often. Because men must be blamed for abortion?

    Women are more likely to initiate separation than men

    Thirty per cent of separations were initiated jointly with 70 per cent of separations initiated unilaterally by either the husband or wife. Of these unilateral separations, 69 per cent were wife initiated and 31 per cent were husband initiated.

    **

    On top of this, men are expected to mentor women who receive preferential treatment in the workplace. Men are expected to nurture their own competition. Man up! Don’t worry about those false accusations by outright loons and golddiggers, no harm has ever come to anyone…

    *https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/aug/01/freedomofinformation.childprotection
    **https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/publications-articles/research-publications/social-policy-research-paper-series/number-35-marriage-breakdown-in-australia-social-correlates-gender-and-initiator-status?HTML

    Now that distraction squirrel squad is dead and buried and we can stop blaming men like we’re all terroristic suffragettes and anti-liquor fanatics, can we discuss how and why abortion ought to be legal or illegal during gestation, from day 1 until birth?

  35. Petros

    I think this is a great libertarian cause. You want to have an abortion, you can do so. Get big government out of our lives. There are various reasons why a woman wants to have an abortion. We cannot have a blanket ban that covers all the reasons. Rape? Genetic diseases? Maternal illnesses?

  36. yarpos

    Classic do nothing, zero cost # activism. Does signing mean that you will put real time, effort and money behind supporting these unwanted children you seems to so desperately want. Continuously I mean for the first twenty years of their lives, and for the rest of your life because they will keep arriving. Or will we just sign a petition, maybe even make a donation and just feel good about how we have taken the high moral ground?

  37. stackja

    In the past care was provided for girls who became pregnant.
    I don’t understand why the baby has to die.
    Hang the man if forced intercourse. The man’s estate goes to the care of the baby.

  38. Tel

    Barnarby Joyce needs to come up with some measure that will actually work, including compliance by fathers so they share the life changing consequences of an unplanned pregnancy with the mother. Very few women conceive all by themselves.

    I didn’t expect Numbers to be such a strong advocate for the traditional institution of marriage.

  39. Tel

    Hang the man if forced intercourse. The man’s estate goes to the care of the baby.

    Yup, always beliebe woman … especially if there’s a payout she would never lie about that.

  40. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Sounds too much like a Lotto ticket stackja.

    I can’t see what is wrong with adoption. It is as though people think adoption is shameful but abortion isn’t.

    It won’t please those who argue purely on moral grounds but simply defunding abortion would be the most effective manner to severely reduce its occurrence.

  41. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Barnarby Joyce needs to come up with some measure that will actually work, including compliance by fathers so they share the life changing consequences of an unplanned pregnancy with the mother. Very few women conceive all by themselves.

    Very few get pregnant without their consent either. Some of them even trick men into impregnating them.

    Where are the criminal and civil suits? Where is the man’s right to abort!?

  42. stackja

    Tel
    #3121974, posted on August 3, 2019 at 8:23 am

    Why kill the baby?

  43. Cardimona

    Does signing mean that you will put real time, effort and money behind supporting these unwanted children you seems to so desperately want.

    Are you suggesting we don’t now, Yarpos?

    Continuously I mean for the first twenty years of their lives, and for the rest of your life because they will keep arriving.

    Like third-world immigrants, then?
    We pay for them, too, don’t we?
    Even the ones conceived in Shitholistan?

    As I said to Peter MV last night on the OOF…

    If you are caught trying to kill a human being in utero you are taken into protective custody until the child is safely delivered.
    Then you are billed for your care.
    And the child is adopted out to a loving family.
    This ain’t rocket science.
    It’s basic humanity.

  44. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    WTF?

    If women must between false accusations and abortion, we’re done as a society.

  45. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Does signing mean that you will put real time, effort and money behind supporting these unwanted children you seems to so desperately want.

    What a cuck. If he keeps on posting this nonsense, feminist loons like Karlie Kloss and Emily Ratalphabet will eventually give him oral sex.

  46. stackja

    Frank Walker from National Tiles
    #3121975, posted on August 3, 2019 at 8:24 am

    Adoption was quite common in the past.
    I believe in NSW Government departments decided against adoptions.

  47. Enyaw

    IMO..Medical reasons indictate the right to abort …any other is MURDER ..stackja..I agree ..

  48. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Does signing mean that you will put real time, effort and money behind supporting these unwanted children you seems to so desperately want.

    Somehow, this is all men’s fault because not everyone is keen on abortion, let alone late-term abortions:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/02/louise-porton-jailed-for-life-for-murdering-young-daughters

    Woman jailed for murdering daughters who ‘got in way’ of love life

    Louise Porton described as ‘evil’ and ‘calculated’ for killing three-year-old and 17-month-old girls

    If only some beta incels would have manned up, stopped sexually assaulting women and contributed more resources to this slewer, or alternatively supported abortion “post natal abortion” like all good men(TM) do.

  49. Tel

    stackja #3121979, Why kill the baby?

    I very much doubt that hanging a man and taking all his property will make a woman love her baby. Very bad idea.

  50. Gab

    When does the baby, who is a separate entity to the mother, get the “right to choose”?

  51. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    I very much doubt that hanging a man and taking all his property will make a woman love her baby. Very bad idea.

    Why am I reminded of Scarlett O Hara?

  52. Iampeter

    Human life is not just some property right.

    Which is why you support banning abortion and forcing people to be incubators? Because people aren’t property, right?

    The indivisible right to life occurs long before birth.

    How does one have rights before birth? Better yet, this statement begs the question of what they even think “rights” are…

    Every life is a miracle. Every life is miraculous.

    Unless you’re pregnant. Then you’re cattle.

    Anyway, let me just sum this up for conservatives because there’s nothing like the abortion issue to demonstrate the self-contradiction of your politics:
    If you believe you can force someone to carry to term, then you can’t argue against people merely being forced to pay for others healthcare, or anything else for that matter. In other words, you are once again arguing for socialism without even realizing it.

  53. Iampeter

    The swing to the conservative right on this site is quite something to behold.

    Every individual is sovereign, unless of course you’re a woman.

    That’s why its more accurately described as a swing to the far left.
    Regulating abortion, like regulating trade, immigration etc, are all old-school left wing political positions.
    But they are fundamentally left wing because they are collectivist.

    The conservative movement is not an alternative to the left, they are the religious and politically illiterate arm of the left wing.

  54. Bosnich

    News from UK yesterday ……. “Birth rates at their lowest but population continues to rise”.
    So,as in Oz,UK continues to abort babies in their millions but keeps importing immigrants because of falling birth rates. The f……g world has finally gone full scale crackers.

  55. Frank Walker from National Tiles

    Which is why you support banning abortion and forcing people to be incubators?

    Slightly unhinged but okay,

    How does one have rights before birth? Better yet, this statement begs the question of what they even think “rights” are…

    Not now they don’t, but only the mother can lawfully terminate with a doctor. Some negative rights exist.

    Unless you’re pregnant. Then you’re cattle.

    You’re assuming every pregnancy is the product of slavery and sexual assault. You’re sounding like a Margaret Atwood fantasist now. Absurd generalisation, don’t you think?

    In other words, you are once again arguing for socialism without even realizing it.

    This is bullshit.

  56. Rae

    I’d like to know what is driving this legislation.

    Then you should read this instead of posting speculative conspiratorial nonsense.

    Second Reading Speech for the Reproductive Health Care Reform Bill 2019

    The Reproductive Health Care Reform Bill 2019 will regulate the practice of terminating pregnancies in New South Wales, bringing the law in line with clinical practice, community attitudes and the rest of the country. This bill will provide a framework for lawful and unlawful terminations in a new standalone Act. Provisions in the bill are based on those enacted in Queensland and Victoria, which came out of extensive Law Reform Commission processes, adopting the principles of ready access to early stage terminations and use of current common law provisions with additional oversight than currently exists from a second doctor for later stage terminations.

    Specifically the bill will ensure that all terminations are lawful for women up to 22 weeks pregnant on request if performed by a registered doctor. After this, a termination is only lawful if two doctors consider that the procedure should be performed after considering all the relevant medical circumstances and the woman’s current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances. The additional provisions after 22 weeks recognise that terminations at this later stage often involve disadvantage, distress, complexities and higher risks to the pregnant woman.

    The inclusion of a second doctor provides stronger safeguards than what is currently in place under common law provisions. Twenty-two weeks was chosen with the advice of the AMA and follows the recommendations of the Queensland Law Reform Commission and is in line with the Queensland Act. It is supported by Royal Australian New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists [RANZCOG]. Also, in line with consultation with the AMA and RANZCOG, these additional requirements are waived in emergencies where a termination might be required quickly to save the woman’s life or to save another fetus.

  57. Cardimona

    forcing people to be incubators

    1-amp plumbs new levels of cognitive dissonance.
    Nobody has ever “forc(ed) people to be incubators”.
    Only females can conceive and carry a child – not “people” generally.
    Females evolved to do this – it’s what they are built for and bless them for it.
    If women don’t want to perform their “incubation” role in this country they almost always have the free choice not to engage in coitus without adequate pregnancy prevention measures in the first place.
    Coitus for procreational purposes was around long before recreational coitus.
    The males of the majority of species don’t ask for consent or stick around to raise the offspring.
    Life is cruel like that.
    But it is what it is.
    A new human life begins at the precise moment a live sperm penetrates a live ovum.
    Ending that human life is lifestyle homicide (thanks Muddy).
    “Birth control” that kills someone is lifestyle homicide.
    “Conception prevention” doesn’t kill anyone (again, thanks Muddy).
    Abortion murders an innocent human and is the ultimate act of selfishness.

    And never forget the guilt the woman suffers post-abortion.
    It eats them up from inside.
    Whether they admit it or not.

  58. Iampeter

    This is bullshit.

    How can anyone not be convinced by such an eloquent argument…

    A new human life begins at the precise moment a live sperm penetrates a live ovum.

    If you think that’s a “human life” then not only should you support abortion, but you should support legalizing murder too. You don’t think very much of human life.

    Ending that human life is lifestyle homicide (thanks Muddy).

    No and statements like this means you don’t even know why homicide is illegal.

    Just to help explain away all these “abortion is murder” variants of nonsense:
    Murder is a crime because it is a rights violation.
    Abortion is not any kind of rights violation, because even a full grown adult, with full rights, doesn’t have the right to use another person as a personal incubator. Since it’s not a rights violation it shouldn’t be any kind of crime, let alone a serious crime like “homicide.”

  59. Cardimona

    The conservative movement is not an alternative to the left, they are the religious and politically illiterate arm of the left wing.

    If the inhabitants of this blog are “politically illiterate”, what are the residents of 1-amp’s preferred world?
    Obviously they are incredibly selfish individuals who will murder an innocent without conscience if it furthers their personal hedonistic objectives.
    What sort of nations have your people built 1-amp?

  60. Percy Popinjay

    with 70 per cent of separations initiated unilaterally by either the husband or wife. Of these unilateral separations, 69 per cent were wife initiated and 31 per cent were husband initiated

    Well, there you have it. That’s 170% of separations according to Syphilis “four leaf” Spuddentropp’s unique interpretation of basic mathematics.

    We have the misfortune to be existing in the most sad, sick, depraved and degenerate “society” to have blighted human history.

    Everything to do with the abortion industrial complex makes my skin crawl, not least the revelations about the harvesting of the murdered infants’ body parts.

    What sort of disgusting creepy cretin attempts to justify the slaughter of infants, FFS?

  61. Cardimona

    If you think that’s a “human life” then not only should you support abortion,

    What sort of life is it then, 1-amp?
    Reptilian life?
    Bacterial life?
    Or do you think the “clump of cells” is dead (non-living) tissue until some magical moment at 22 or 34 or 45 weeks after the pregnancy began?

    Murder is a crime because it is a rights violation.

    No.
    Murder is a crime because it is theft of personal property.
    Each individual’s life is their own.

    even a full grown adult, with full rights, doesn’t have the right to use another person as a personal incubator.

    How incredibly thick does a person need to be to misunderstand vivaparous reproduction as a lifestyle violation that warrants murdering their own son or daughter?
    Geez, 1-amp, I can’t believe I ever wasted time trying to work out what your point was.

  62. Tel

    The dopey fake Randian can’t even show understanding of the Liberal Party’s website. When he says “politically illiterate” he is describing himself and this gets demonstrated any time he is put on the spot with a genuine question.

  63. Cassie of Sydney

    “Iampeter
    #3122056, posted on August 3, 2019 at 9:41 am”

    Wow…shiteater has really plummeted to the bottom with that comment.

  64. Cassie of Sydney

    “What sort of disgusting creepy cretin attempts to justify the slaughter of infants, FFS?”

    Well said.

  65. Gab

    Yes yes nature, our biology, forces us to be incubators. Stiff. That’s the way it is.

  66. Muddy

    stackja
    #3121983, posted on August 3, 2019 at 8:33 am

    Adoption was quite common in the past.
    I believe in NSW Government departments decided against adoptions.

    A close family member – she a teacher, he an experienced police officer – went through the adoption process in Queensland: ten years. I’m not kidding. It took ten years for them to be finally ‘approved of’ and adopt a child. They wanted to adopt again, but the time it took the first time rendered them ‘too old’ to be seen as suitable parents for a second child (she’s 42 now, and the cutoff was a year or two ago, so it must have been age 40). Some of the case managers they had would have made third world regional warlords seem like teddy bears. Unfreakingbelievable.

  67. Iampeter

    Wow…shiteater has really plummeted to the bottom with that comment.

    You kiss your mother with that mouth?

    What sort of disgusting creepy cretin attempts to justify the slaughter of infants, FFS?

    The kind that would confuse infants with the unborn, I suppose. In other words any anti-abortionists.

    Yes yes nature, our biology, forces us to be incubators. Stiff. That’s the way it is.

    Yea but politics isn’t “nature” or “biology” and those things can’t help you determine what should or should not be legal and why. Stiff.

    No.
    Murder is a crime because it is theft of personal property.

    Then why is theft of personal property a crime?

    What sort of life is it then, 1-amp?
    Reptilian life?
    Bacterial life?

    Oh, you were talking about what species it was. I thought you were comparing mindless tissue that hasn’t even been born yet, to actual individual human beings, thus reducing actual human beings to the level of mindless tissue, thus destroying your own claim of supporting human life by totally devaluing what it means to be human.
    My bad, I guess.

  68. A Lurker

    What gets me about 1-amp and others of his ilk is that they who were granted the gift of life are eager to take life away from innocent babies.

    Speaks volumes about their character – or lack thereof.

  69. A Lurker

    As for when life begins? In my opinion, at the first heartbeat.

    Amazing too that bacteria which can only be observed through a microscope can be declared alive, but a human foetus which swiftly grows into ever greater complexity is somehow not alive.

    Can 1-amp explain to me that reasoning.

  70. Sinclair Davidson

    Two silly questions:
    1. Why is Bananaby getting involved in a state government issue when he is in the federal parliament?
    2. Isn’t abortion already legal in NSW?

  71. Robert Mc

    Every life is a miracle. Every life is miraculous.

    So, in the event that your daughter-in-law’s foetus showed evidence of Mosaic Trisomy 16 you would insist that she carry the child to term. Yes?

    After the sperm fertilizes the egg the resulting embryo should have 46 chromosomes in each cell. When a trisomy occurs there is an extra copy of one or more chromosomes. In Trisomy 16 the extra copy is found on chromosome 16. This extra chromosome can have a range of effects based on how many cells in the embryo are affected.

    There are three types of trisomy 16: full, mosaic, and partial.

    Mosaic trisomy 16 means some of the embryo’s cells are affected while others have the normal number of chromosomes. Mosaic trisomy 16 may cause some complications during pregnancy including intrauterine growth restriction and preeclampsia but it is possible to carry a mosaic trisomy 16 pregnancy to term. A mosaic trisomy 16 infant may have some congenital defects based on how many cells are effected by the trisomy. If few cells are affected the infant can develop normally. As more cells are affected the likelihood of defects increases. Defects can include heart defects, facial deformities, or respiratory abnormalities.

  72. stackja

    Sinclair Davidson
    #3122116, posted on August 3, 2019 at 10:56 am
    Two silly questions:
    1. Why is Bananaby getting involved in a state government issue when he is in the federal parliament?
    BJ lives in NSW
    2. Isn’t abortion already legal in NSW? NO!

    In New South Wales, an important District Court ruling in 1971 (‘the Levine ruling’) established that an abortion would be lawful in that State if there was ‘any economic, social or medical ground or reason’ upon which a doctor could base an honest and reasonable belief that an abortion was required to avoid a ‘serious danger to the pregnant woman’s life or to her physical or mental health.’ That danger might arise at any time during the pregnancy. The Levine ruling was based on the statement of the law in Victoria in the Menhennitt ruling, but was in the result somewhat more liberal. Like the Menhennitt ruling, the Levine ruling apparently permit an abortion at any stage of pregnancy. Unlike the Menhennitt ruling, however, the Levine ruling seems to impose a requirement that an abortion be performed by a medical practitioner in order to be lawful.

  73. Cardimona

    Then why is theft of personal property a crime?

    Because it invites a property-protection response.
    Such as a heavy club applied to the back of the fleeing thief’s head.
    That reduces the number of people to potentially engage in productive trade with.
    Our civilisation evolved systems of laws to minimise such negative events.
    Randians don’t know this?

    I thought you were comparing mindless tissue that hasn’t even been born yet,

    So 1-amp; youth and ignorance confirmed.
    Never studied biology, did you…?
    Could a medical Cat link to the age a human child can survive from outside the womb with optimal medical care?
    I seem to recall a survival from 18 weeks gestation somewhere…
    So how does “mindless tissue” survive outside the female body at any time before the typical 40 weeks gestation, 1-amp?
    What sort of mental vacuity is necessary to make a comment like that?

  74. Howard Hill

    A Lurker
    #3121948, posted on August 3, 2019 at 7:30 am

    I’d like to know what is driving this legislation. Perhaps the lure of big dollars for foetus parts may lie at the heart of this issue?

    I’ll bet this comes directly from the UN and probably part of agenda 21/2030 which almost all poly-ticks seem to support. There are many that are actively trying to bring down the worlds population to what they perceive to be sustainable. Ever wonder why all these things are coming at us at once? Carpet licking, poo jabbing rights, same sex marriage, ruinable energy, globull warming, mass immigration of shit heads from shithole countries. All designed to reduce the number of humans on the planet.
    Us plebs are under attack.

  75. candy

    Maybe Barnaby got involved because he has had two babies of recent years as a middle aged man and looked into their eyes and thought how could they not be here?

    Anyways, it’s a strange world where in the one health facility a woman can be getting a 22 week foetus destroyed, and in another part of the facility the doctors are desperately trying to save premmie babies around 22/23 weeks gestation.
    The issue of pregnancy via rape/force and terrible circumstances is something bad but most probably quite rare and who are we to judge, but I think we could say nearly all pregnancies are quite avoidable and abortion should not become contraception in these days and times, 2019. It is just that the baby is not wanted by its parents.

  76. stackja

    “I’ve noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.” — Ronald Reagan.

  77. Cardimona

    Two silly questions:

    No, not silly; perfectly reasonable questions that warrant considered answers.

    1. Why is Bananaby getting involved in a state government issue when he is in the federal parliament?

    Do you ignore a drowning person because they’re swimming outside the flags?
    Joyce has a conscience.
    No other pollie-muppet is demonstrating they have one at this moment in time.
    I’m hoping Joyce serves as the thrown pebble that starts the avalanche.
    He certainly seems to “think of the children” more deeply and more often than any of the hand-wringing left.
    Also, his federal electorate is within NSW’s borders and he lives in Armidale, NSW, which makes him perfectly entitled to speak out against his own state government’s proposed laws.
    If you mean “why is he using his federal profile to raise awareness” in what way would it be possible for BJ to separate himself from that profile?

    2. Isn’t abortion already legal in NSW?

    Yes, under the circumstances Stackja linked to it.
    But does that make those laws correct?
    Shouldn’t all of it be revisited?
    If we’re going to bend over backwards for the 1300-or-fewer Australians who are “transgender”, why can’t we re-evaluate laws that involve killing an innocent human without trial or conviction or alternatives considered for that number who have already signed BJ’s petition?

    A gestation to 20 weeks is no major inconvenience to a woman’s lifestyle.
    Why not deliver the inconvenienced woman’s baby then into advanced medical care for the next 20 weeks.
    The price of the mother’s “convenience” then is equal to the cost of the 20 weeks in a special care baby unit.
    Let economics rule, my professorial friend.

  78. Cardimona

    1,806 signatures.
    It went live at 9 last night.

    Keep an eye out for a Miranda Devine yarn.

  79. Tel

    Maybe Barnaby got involved because he has had two babies of recent years as a middle aged man and looked into their eyes and thought how could they not be here?

    Here’s a win/win idea: any Australian woman wants to have an abortion … we get Barnaby to knock up another one of his staff and they have a baby to compensate. Completely neutral outcome and all parties go away happy.

    We won’t run out of bimbos in Canberra any time soon … it’s a sustainable resource!

  80. Rob MW

    Signed. There’s something seriously wrong with these people. My daughter (21) at this very moment is fighting like buggery to save her unborn daughter from entering the world way, way to early.

    Rob

  81. Sinclair Davidson

    Really hard to excited.

    It seems, based on above, that the common law position is that abortion is already legal in NSW. The NSW government is simply confirming the common law in legislation.

    Unlike the Menhennitt ruling, however, the Levine ruling seems to impose a requirement that an abortion be performed by a medical practitioner in order to be lawful.

    While I’m not a fan occupational licencing this seems reasonable, if not actually sensible.

  82. Really hard to excited.

    It seems, based on above, that the common law position is that abortion is already legal in NSW.

    Based on that, you then clearly have no problem with anything that is either existing law or becomes law in the future? I’m not going to start looking, but I’m pretty sure I remember you complaining about issues that are enshrined in law in the past. Some astute reader may be able to elaborate.

  83. Rob MW

    It seems, based on above, that the common law position is that abortion is already legal in NSW.

    Correct Sinc. So alter why that position ? As you are well a where, the Common Law dates back whereas a Statute(s) post dates any and all amendments to the Common Law. Statutes are like an addiction, they start with the least offensive then migrate (amended) to full blown hard core addiction.

  84. Rob MW

    Opps – “So why alter that position ?”

  85. Sinclair Davidson

    I’m not going to start looking, but I’m pretty sure I remember you complaining about issues that are enshrined in law in the past.

    Yes – true. But in this instance there is no change. The common law is becoming legislation.

  86. Iampeter

    Because it invites a property-protection response.

    So determining if something is a crime or not is done by looking at the response it invites?

    Such as a heavy club applied to the back of the fleeing thief’s head.

    Wait, so that’s not a crime?

    That reduces the number of people to potentially engage in productive trade with.

    OK, so are you now saying crimes are determined by whether an action reduces the number of people to trade with?

    Randians don’t know this?

    Randians actually know why we have laws. You clearly have no idea.

    Never studied biology, did you…?

    Nope. Biology is also not going to help you figure out whether something should be legal or not.

    What you should actually study before posting on a political blog is politics.

  87. The alternative is an unmeasurable number of backyard abortions with a rusty coathanger.

    I thought the contraceptive pill prevented the fertilized egg from implanting on the uterus? If that is the case, why aren’t these just as aborted?

    There is no right to choice for the featus, the mother has the choice to murder their baby.

    Truly a wicked problem, I’m still very conflicted.

  88. The Sheriff

    Barnaby no doubt feels strongly about this issue because he has had 2 children in the last 2 years and everyone in Canberra would have been attempting to bully him and Vicky into an abortion slaughterhouse to murder the children “for the party”. It’s what most corrupt politicians would do and several in that parliament have probably done that very wicked thing to cover up their affairs.

  89. Robert Mc

    It seems, based on above, that the common law position is that abortion is already legal in NSW. The NSW government is simply confirming the common law in legislation.

    No, that is not correct. From Rae’s above link to the Second Reading Speech:

    In our State’s twenty-first century healthcare system pregnancies are safely terminated in licensed healthcare facilities and by registered doctors. But the women, doctors and healthcare professionals obtaining, conducting and assisting in these vital healthcare services are operating under an out-of-date law from the 1900s that creates a risk that they are committing a crime with penalties of up to 10 years in prison.

    Our Crimes Act still makes it a criminal offence to procure an unlawful abortion. The framework that enables pregnancies to be terminated does not come from the law, but from common law interpretations of what “lawful” and “unlawful” terminations constitute. The courts have ruled that terminations are lawful if they protect a woman from serious danger to her life or physical or mental health, taking into account economic, social or medical reasons. The first ruling to allow for lawful terminations was in 1971 by Judge Levine inR v Wald. I acknowledge that today in the gallery we have some of Judge Levine’s family, including his daughter-in-law, and his grandson and his wife. I pay tribute to Judge Levine’s contribution.

    There is no clarity beyond this interpretation in the law itself and determining whether each termination meets the common law criteria for “lawful” remains a grey area in the law. This has a number of poor consequences for women trying to access reproductive health care. The courts can consider any termination that occurs in this State on a case-by-case basis, and assess each woman’s personal situation to make a determination. The threat of prosecution of women and healthcare professionals is real. As recently as August 2017 a Blacktown mother of five was prosecuted for self-administrating a drug to cause a miscarriage. If the law is left unchanged, the courts can continue to interpret what does and does not constitute a lawful termination with no guidance from the Parliament in over 100 years. The bill finally provides that guidance.

  90. Sinclair Davidson

    There were a couple of things that annoyed me when they did this in Victoria.

    The politicians gave themselves a conscience vote to deny medical doctors a choice and they encouraged doctor-hopping.

    Also it is galling to watch a whole bunch of politicians giving long speeches and back-slapping how they have “legalised” abortion when in fact it was the common law judges who had actually done so.

  91. Cardimona

    1-amp at 12.20, now you’re just being ridiculously, improbably thick.

    Troll status: confirmed.

  92. A Lurker

    Troll = mindless tissue.

  93. Tintarella di Luna

    mindless tissue.

    Not a clump of cells?

  94. Tintarella di Luna

    Also it is galling to watch a whole bunch of politicians giving long speeches and back-slapping how they have “legalised” abortion when in fact it was the common law judges who had actually done so.

    It is the Labor women who were the worst in that low act – there were some Labor women arguing that it should remain at 20 weeks but no the other Labor women wanted it to be 24 weeks — as far as NSW is concerned it is Gladys Berejiklian’s responsibility for this current low act — has anyone heard complaints from women not only not being able to kill their unborn baby when there is case law already on that the books?

  95. Bosnich

    Rae at 9.15 am … the requirement for two doctors to agree that a termination was necessary for various reasons was the same in UK when abortion was legalised many years ago. What soon happened was that some doctors quickly realised that there was a quid to be made and joined together to facilitate what quickly became abortion on demand.

  96. Tel

    Also it is galling to watch a whole bunch of politicians giving long speeches and back-slapping how they have “legalised” abortion when in fact it was the common law judges who had actually done so.

    What’s galling is that there was not a murmur of this before the election.

    Having a Constitutional requirement that all proposed legislation must be posted in public one electoral cycle before it goes through Parliament might be worth a try.

  97. Iampeter

    1-amp at 12.20, now you’re just being ridiculously, improbably thick.
    Troll status: confirmed.

    Yep sure.
    The fact that you don’t even know why things are legal or illegal and wouldn’t know where to start, is me trolling.
    Whatever you say buddy.

  98. Chris M

    The left hate guns because they killz but positively salivate at tearing limbs off tiny babies.

  99. bespoke

    Gab
    #3122070, posted on August 3, 2019 at 10:00 am
    Yes yes nature, our biology, forces us to be incubators. Stiff. That’s the way it is.

    Cuts both ways though. A bloke winging they have to do the heavy lifting, Stiff. That’s the way it is.

  100. Cardimona

    2,487 signatures as at 2.49 pm…

  101. Percy Popinjay

    The kind that would confuse infants with the unborn

    I haven’t “confused” anything, you psychopathic imbecile.

    It is acceptable for the state to allocate taxpayer funded medical resources to keep a premature baby alive just as it is acceptable to murder a similar “clump of cells” that’s the same age.

    Yeah, no. One of those things is not like the other. Of course, a psychopathic imbecile wouldn’t be able to discern the difference.

  102. Percy Popinjay

    iamashiteater is an out and proud would be baby killer.

    As usual, like most evil idiotology hidebound cockgobblers, he prefers others do his dirty work for him.

    The cretinous subnormal psychopathic coward.

  103. a reader

    I see the holier than thou types are out, “how dare Barnaby advocate against abortion. I mean he had an affair!”

    These same wankers tried to silence anybody who had had an affair, gotten divorced, or wasn’t married during the Homosexual Redefinition of Marriage debate if they weren’t for allowing the contradiction in terms to become law.

    These sanctimonious dickheads clearly don’t believe in the fallibility of man. That what a human believes and what they then do in a rash act or under pressure somehow invalidates their beliefs is one of the most dangerous fallacies foisted upon society by the militancy of atheism.

    Now these same lying bastards are trying to do the same when it comes to life of babies. 1/2 of the countries jurisdictions have specific laws about the death of a baby in utero in say a car crash. NSW itself adds the death of a child as a GBH issue (although as an injury to the mother-or in 1-amps world, the Heifer). If that alone doesn’t recognise life, I’m not sure what does.

    The earliest birth to survive to date was 21 weeks and 4 days. That’s already before the 22 weeks this legislation wants to allow. Given the advance of medical technologies that number is only going to get smaller.

    There are three alternatives to abortion:
    1. Adoption. That a woman can hate her child so much that she can’t put up with it is tragic. NSW has taken big steps to do something about improving adoption times thanks to Hugh Jackman and his wife Deborra-Lee Furness. Facilitate it. Get it moving.
    2. Use contraceptives. It’s not hard. They’re available everywhere.
    3. Don’t have sex! This is the easiest thing in the world to do. Keep your penis out of a vagina and there’s no way a baby can be conceived short of another immaculate conception.

  104. Sinclair Davidson

    No, that is not correct. From Rae’s above link to the Second Reading Speech:

    Hmmmmmmm. Yeah. Not convinced. Sounds like politicians trying to write themselves into relevance.

  105. Iampeter

    amashiteater is an out and proud would be baby killer.

    Yes, yes. Whoever disagrees with conservatives is a “baby killer,” just like whoever disagrees with progressives is a “racist.” You leftists all sound the same.
    In the absence of any understanding of politics and the resulting total contradictory mess of any positions you try to take, all you have are appeals to emotions.
    Too bad facts don’t care about your feelings.

  106. Cardimona

    4,910 signatures as at 5.10 pm Sunday.

    But the lamestream media are flatly refusing to report on this.

    Won’t anyone think of the children?

    FMD, we’re not far from societal collapse when nobody wants to fight for their own babies…

  107. Link

    Health worker Summer Finlay, 38, was 21 when she underwent an abortion with the support of a friend and partner.

    “Everyone’s situation is different, I was working in retail and my partner at the time was at university, I didn’t feel I was in any shape or form able to take care of a baby,” she told The Daily Telegraph.

    [photo of smiling young woman]

    such an inconvenience…

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