What exactly is to be done?

Here’s the challenge, but where’s the plan? Let’s stand up to globalist cant. There we find written:

Journalist Sebastian Haffner, writing on Hitler’s rise in Germany, refers to the ­absence of conservative resistance: “They went along with everything: the terror, the persecution of Jews … They were not even bothered when their own party was banned and their own members arrested.” ­Alexander the Great similarly ­observed that the people of Asia were slaves because they had not learned the word “no”.

I do not believe this is even remotely true, that conservatives “went along with everything: the terror, the persecution of Jews … they were not even bothered when their own party was banned and their own members arrested.” I bet they were bothered quite a lot, possibly even alarmed and frightened and would have refused to go along with any of it had there been any actual choice. Tell me what they should have done?

It is almost certainly the case that the tanks have so far been kept out of Hong Kong only because of the presence of Donald Trump in the White House. The most interesting aspect of the present moment in our political history is to find that, as has occurred over and again in the past, the left have declared war on the established rules that we “conservatives” count on to preserve our way of life and wellbeing.

So what’s the plan? What should we be doing exactly that we are not doing already? What should Donald Trump be doing?

Look at these ignorant yokels sitting on the streets of Melbourne. What exactly do you intend to do to get their attention. How are you going to get them to see how inane their concerns are?

Protesters sit on the ground on a major road in Melbourne. Picture: AFP

Smiling and cheerful. A lark and a day in the park. How about this for a contrast.

Image result for hong kong protest

Are we there yet? Where are we exactly? As Lenin himself asked at a different time and in a different place: What is to be done? There’s plenty of caution to go around but it’s all very well to rabble rouse those of us who leave things to our democratic institutions. We voted in Tony Abbott and Donald Trump and both uncovered a very deep institutional state of very dangerous people who will do anything to overturn the will of the people which does not coincide with the will of the “elites”, morally worthless scum though they be. And then there’s Boris as well so we are not without forces of our own.

I will tell you what the only plan we have is. To continue arguing our case in public, and to hope that we can get at least half the population to understand the dangers “climate change” and “socialism” and all the rest of it have for themselves and for their own futures.

If I have told this story before, well here it is again. I taught something like 1500 students over the years and I used to say when I came to my History of Economics section that I would give an automatic “A” to anyone who could tell me a single historical fact about John Stuart Mill. And no one ever did. Look at those dimwits in the street. They are not only your future, they are their own future. If you’re not worried you should be.

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91 Responses to What exactly is to be done?

  1. Jo Smyth

    History is definitely repeating itself. In the 30s and before you had radio and the newspapers. You either believed or disbelieved what you heard. There were practically no visual images of what was emerging. Now the internet and visual media is everywhere. People have the means to fight back and question everything. Unfortunately most of the media outlets are trying to shut down discussion and education is a worry. Just imagine how much worse things would be if Clinton, Shorten and Corbyn were in power.

  2. mh

    Melbourne forecast for tomorrow

    Min 9Max 14Showers.Possible rainfall: 2 to 6 mmChance of any rain: 95%

  3. Howard Hill

    mh, you forgot the moose that went for a swim in the swimming pool and the footy scores!

    If the goose that wrote this piece really thinks it will achieve anything with its pen and its mouth, I’ve got it some paper bandwidth to buy.

    Name me a nation that removed itself from the shackles of bondage or the boot from its neck without violence involved?

  4. Howard Hill:

    Name me a nation that removed itself from the shackles of bondage or the boot from its neck without violence involved?

    I’ve spent most of my adult life arguing with people about the lunacies that are inflicted on the nation, the path to ruin we are dancing down, and most people just don’t give a damn.
    A lot of people I’ve spoken to have told me I’m too serious, too concerned, it’ll be OK mate.
    Several have said that I’m a bit of a loonie.
    The fact that they may have had a point, rarely helped the situation.
    Frankly, the last seven years of ill health have taken their toll and I don’t really care anymore – I’m content to eat popcorn, drink beer, and tell everyone “I don’t give a damn.”

  5. Look at these ignorant yokels sitting on the streets of Melbourne. What exactly do you intend to do to get their attention. How are you going to get them to see how inane their concerns are?

    I’d like to tar and feather them, but they do this stuff with the blessing of the state.
    I’d go to gaol and get their dry cleaning bill.

  6. Scott Osmond

    No, conservatives didn’t go along, at least at first. They warned of dire consequences, complained and eventually surrendered. Conservatives conserve nothing, they haven’t been able to defend little girls bathrooms or womens sports. Conservatives serve as a safety brake for the radical left. Not a hill won over the last century by the left will the conservative fail to bleed himself and his party white defending. For example look at 18 C, global warming/climate change and but sex marriage. That is why DJT rose in America and is why eventually the same kind of person whill appear out here. Someone, anyone who will fight instead of curling in to a ball and saying the equivalent of please don’t hit me, please don’t call me a racist/homophobe/what ever the latest wokescold phrase is.

  7. 132andBush

    They’re not ignorant yokels.

    Spoiled brats would be closer to the mark.

  8. 1735099

    I will tell you what the only plan we have is. To continue arguing our case in public, and to hope that we can get at least half the population to understand the dangers “climate change” and “socialism” and all the rest of it have for themselves and for their own futures.

    Childish tosh – socialism and climate change are the new boogey men.
    It reminds me of tales thought up by lazy parents to frighten their children.
    It won’t wash with adults, and it’s time you grew up, Steve.

  9. 1735099

    They warned of dire consequences, complained and eventually surrendered.

    Certainly true during the rise of Nazi Germany.

    That is why DJT rose in America and is why eventually the same kind of person will appear out here.

    Yep – in the mould of Mussolini, Hitler and Franco – all “strong” leaders who found some group to hate, and used this hate to unite their countries.
    Remind us how that worked out….

  10. Mater

    “strong” leaders who found some group to hate, and used this hate to unite their countries

    Right, so National Socialism is not your preferred flavour.
    Perhaps you’re a Trotskyite?

  11. stackja

    Extinction Rebellion climate change protest ends in 30 arrests in Sydney
    James Morrow, The Daily Telegraph
    October 7, 2019 9:30pm
    Subscriber only

    The Daily Telegraph stopped to have a chat with Jim McElroy, who said he was a retired public servant.

    As he handed out copies of Green Left Weekly, he was asked about the sort of economics necessary to stave off annihilation at the cruel hands of Mother Nature.

    “Myself, I’m a socialist. I think we will need at some point in the future to take the ownership of the main ­industry into the hands of the people — into communal ownership,” he said.

    When asked to point to a socialist country that’s turned out to be an environmental success story, Mr McElroy thought for a moment.

    “We haven’t had a lot of socialist governments … the Soviet Union was a false start, but that being said, we have to look at poor old Cuba, and they have tremendous environmental policies … they’ve planted massive amounts of trees.”

  12. bespoke

    Scott Osmond
    #3177838, posted on October 8, 2019 at 3:48 am

    This!

  13. Louis Hissink

    Given how modern day progressives fabricate today’s events from whole cloth, it is more likely a similar situation occurred during the early 1930’s in Europe. Delusional progressive utopianism isn’t a new political response peculiar to our times, it’s been like that since Plato’s time – belief always trumping reality.

  14. Cassie of Sydney

    “Yep – in the mould of Mussolini, Hitler and Franco – all “strong” leaders who found some group to hate, and used this hate to unite their countries.
    Remind us how that worked out….”

    Yep – in the mould of Stalin, Mao, Castro and Pol Pot – all “strong” leaders who found some group to hate, and used this hate to unite their countries.

    Remind us how that worked out….”

    So writes the perennial racist, Jooo hater and all round fuckwit.

  15. Iampeter

    I do not believe this is even remotely true, that conservatives “went along with everything: the terror, the persecution of Jews … they were not even bothered

    That’s because it’s not true. They didn’t merely go along with everything, they overwhelmingly supported the Nazi’s. Nazi’s were anti-abortion, anti-homosexual and anti-capitalism which conservatives thought was running rampant through all their “traditional” lifestyles.
    More fundamentally Nazi’s were the end state of collectivist ideology. Conservatives having no understanding of rights couldn’t oppose them even if they had wanted to.

    It is almost certainly the case that the tanks have so far been kept out of Hong Kong only because of the presence of Donald Trump in the White House.

    Trump said Xi was a good man in a tough job.
    If the tanks do roll into HK it’ll be precisely because a buffoon like Trump is in the WhiteHouse.

    Your opposition to the CCP doesn’t even make any sense. They have nothing but policies you would support.

  16. Tel

    “Myself, I’m a socialist. I think we will need at some point in the future to take the ownership of the main ­industry into the hands of the people — into communal ownership,” he said.

    Should have asked him to identify Australia’s “main industry” that he wants to take over.

    We have lost most our industry, and the green/left are the ones insisting that we can’t build anything. Are they going to have communally owned coffee shops or something?

  17. Herodotus

    Unfortunately most of the media outlets are trying to shut down discussion and education is a worry.
    The zombie left project has been going on unabated for a century. The damage done to our institutions during the last 50 years is now evident on a daily basis.
    While we have such symbiosis between the media and leftist politics, and activists at the extreme left, it’s hard to see a way through which doesn’t involve some serious purges.
    Is it any wonder that China isn’t won over by what they see happening under democracies?
    In the USA they’re now trying to get Trump on some process or tax related charge because impeachment won’t get up. Or, they might think if enough crap is thrown at him he might just get sick of it and not contest the next election.
    I said way back that two terms of Obama would see the end of the USA. It was close, and still is if Trump doesn’t succeed.
    Was the lower house lost by voter apathy, or were there really some problems with rigged votes? It stands as proof, along with Victoria’s Andrews government, that the voting public can make awful choices.

  18. Iampeter

    What exactly is to be done?

    What is to be done re a murderous regime that is abandoning what progress it was making and heading back in the wrong direction?
    With no grasp of politics and no principles and generally agreeing with it on more than you disagree, this is indeed a hard question.
    Best thing would be to discuss it superficially and vaguely, I guess.

  19. bespoke

    Show me a socialism and climate change sceptic that has prostrated them selves in desperation?

  20. MikeS

    Surprised that none of the 1500 claimed the “A” yet I also used to wonder why so many lecturers would expect anyone in a large audience to answer anything. If correct, they merely look conceited to their fellow students. If wrong, they just look pathetic and stupid. Silent even if knowing just looks detached and bored, a much better herd position.

  21. Peter Pickled

    There is no climate emergency.

  22. Herodotus

    P.S. ABC now delighting in criticism of Trump for not staying in Syria. They’d be just as onboard with criticism if he let things get worse there by staying and escalating the conflict.

  23. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    So much disinformation, so few platforms on which to object.

    One could get quite depressed, and do as Winston does. Just sit tight.
    I expect that is what many did in Germany until the bombs started to move them on.
    Resistance lies in small things for many of us.
    A little blog here and there. A gentle remonstrance.
    A wail amongst like-minded people. An occasional head up over the parapet.
    A letter to a politician. Speaking out at a party to people who gulp at your views.
    Even if secretly they agree with you. The sub-text of fundamental decency.
    This at least we can maintain.

    Braver souls do more. Which is why medals are awarded for bravery.
    And names go down in history for it. The genuinely Righteous. Honor them.

  24. min

    Socialist country because they planted an enormous amount of trees makes Cuba an enviromental success? Well Mussolini did the same thing In Italy where there where many marshes that bred mosqiutoes and malaria , he planted Red gums. Lots of gumtrees in Sicily too as the Romans cut down the trees to grow wheat and now replaced with gumtrees.

  25. Cassie of Sydney

    “Braver souls do more. Which is why medals are awarded for bravery.
    And names go down in history for it. The genuinely Righteous. Honor them.”

    Yes….when you were in Israel…did you go to Yad Vashem?

  26. Peter Pickled

    damn, here’s the link; “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVBH-HY5Ow”

  27. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    socialism and climate change are the new boogey men.
    It reminds me of tales thought up by lazy parents to frighten their children.

    Saint Greta is a very good example of how successful they have been in producing these two ‘new’ boogey men, Numbers. Very lazy parents indeed are those ones parenting the current misled ‘glue to roadway’ generation; parents who listen to the big lie told often enough and who of course become ardent believers.

    The world is going to fry (such non-empirical nonsense) so let’s indoctrinate the children, because kids are always good for a bit of totalitarian training. Hitler knew that, and so has every totalitarian nation since Sparta, through Hitler, to China and concluding in Year 1 after Pol Pot in Cambodia and still limping along in Cuba and Venezuela. Socialism is an ideology of killing fields. Remember that, you loony parents. We are starting here now to relive the nightmare of the Cultural Revolution in China, when the youth got hold of remaking the world as they saw fit. Seems we have forgotten about the whole generation that is missing from China’s current new world of achievement; the ones ‘educated’ under the aegis of the red tooth rag.

    God help our education system, because Numbers certainly won’t.

  28. calli

    I did, Cassie. There were a couple of names I wanted to search out.

    I think this might be an appropriate story to post on a climate alarmism thread.

    It’s a perfect example of how the latest fad has debased what was once considered good and true.

  29. struth

    We always fight socialism and we always win, because to some extent, like it’s failed economic vision of central control, war mongering is done by the head tyrant with no dissent or alternative plans discussed.
    This was the case with socialist Nazis for example.
    Why Russian military experience via it’s officers was taken out .

    They’re not real bright.

    However, we always END UP fighting socialism too late.
    Once it’s become too powerful, hoping there will be a peaceful solution, a Peace in Our Time delusion.

    We will fight again, or probably our children will, because we didn’t nip it in the bud when it marched though our institutions, especially our schools.

    The greatest generation as it is known, were very conservative and patriotic to their anglosphere nations, even if they were labor voters, compared to the western hating traitorous left these days.
    Conservatism fought socialist Hitler and won.
    But it cost millions of lives because we wait too long.
    The left have realised they actually cannot win from the outside, against the west, and must destroy from the inside, using people like numbers to brainwash children.

    What to do when the left fight from the inside.
    With no official declaration of war, and no actual armed forces, they still use force and threats to gain power.
    They corrupt all they touch.

    Learn from the Convoy of no confidence, or more recently, Bob Brown’s reception in Queensland with his convoy.
    Fight back, in anyway you can, and don’t just rely on being a keyboard warrior to clear your conscience.
    It’s just not enough.
    Next time you are at a gathering, and somebody declares their leftism, family or not, if you aren’t laughing at their face and taking them on forcefully, you are part of the problem.
    If you have children in school and you haven’t gone down to really lay it on the line to the commos brainwashing your kid, you are part of the problem.
    Etc.
    Free speech is not given or taken away by government.
    They can only do that to the gutless.

  30. I had to prune back my lemon tree not that long ago. I hadn’t done it for a long while and the tree began getting diseased.
    Societies are no different. Unless they get pruned back every so often, they get diseased and die off.
    War or economics is a way to prune back societies. War was fairly effective in the 19th and 20th centuries, but not so much now because there is no longer large scale deaths.
    Economics is the only way now. People have to be awakened from their stupor with a strong dose of cut backs.

    Those idiots protesting about climate (or same sex marriage or whatever else) do so because they don’t have to worry about their next meal or where they will sleep tonight. Times are good.

    Good times bring bad men.
    Bad men bring harsh times.
    Harsh times bring strong men.
    Strong men bring good times.
    Or something like that.

  31. Mother Lode

    The history of violent revolution does not recommend such as a cure for ills.

    The leaders of revolutions have certain traits needed to be successful. They aren’t the traits of leaders of peace. But they have trouble accepting when they should step aside. It is a hell of a gamble.

    The French Revolution unleashed an appetite for violence so strong that, after they had run out of aristocrats and petty officials to execute they turned on the ordinary people. China, Russia, Cuba. (Note that the last three were all communist revolutions). Countless pocket revolutions in South America and Africa.

    The exception was the American Revolution – those remarkable men really believed in enlightenment ideals. But they were the exception. And whatever you say about Pinochet’s methods, after leading his country to victory over the stale bestial communists and fortifying his countries institutions, he stepped down and allowed Chile to flourish.

    The collapse of communism in Eastern Europe was, to my mind, largely a retreat verging on a rout. Exhausted and strained – collapse of empire rather than revolution.

  32. Tel

    Conservatism fought socialist Hitler and won.
    But it cost millions of lives because we wait too long.

    No, the Washington military establishment won that war BECAUSE they were in a position to step in late after everyone else was beaten down.

    Conservatism lost the war in every way imaginable: bigger government, higher taxes, overreach in violation of constitutional limitations, erosion of individual liberty.

  33. Old School Conservative

    I’d like to tar and feather them, but they do this stuff with the blessing of the state.

    And when I said something even more benign in a comment at The Australian, I was rejected. So it’s not just the state wearing us down.

  34. BorisG

    It is almost certainly the case that the tanks have so far been kept out of Hong Kong only because of the presence of Donald Trump in the White House

    What an utter nonsense. Trump has said repeatedly that HK is a Chinese internal affair. He is the most isolationist president since WWI.

  35. BorisG

    It is also largely true that conservatives despised the Nazis but went along with them. They did have reservations but common goal of restoring German pride resulted in almost unconditional support, especially as long he ‘was winning’.

  36. PB

    I do look at Joshua Wong and his various visits with representatives of the US Government, and I do wonder if the US would have shown similar restraint had the lead figures of the Occupy movement visited and been photographed with reps of the PRC at the height of the protests.

    China is ugly, but not stupid and it understands optics and the politics of external provocation through manipulation. At this point they are managing Hong Kong as conservatively as they can get away with. That will change if things start being spread to other parts of China.

  37. Bruce

    On a related matter:

    Is anyone tracking the “official” BOM temperature forecasts with the reality?

    Some of the “predictions” seem a little “off”, in more than one way. More “suggestive” than predictive.

  38. 1735099

    If you have children in school and you haven’t gone down to really lay it on the line to the commos brainwashing your kid, you are part of the problem.

    I worked as a teacher, principal, regional manager and consultant from 1971 until 2017.
    Not once in all that time did I encounter a Communist in any of the schools, regions or districts I worked in.
    I did encounter two teachers who entered politics, one of them in what was called the Country Party in those days, and the other a Liberal. Both failed preselection.
    Except for my first year of teaching, my students were all children with severe and multiple impairments. The notion that I (or anyone else) would attempt to indoctrinate these children is beyond ridicule.
    The only indoctrination I saw in place were lies told on (for example) the ANZAC Day website for schools which included the statement “Every National Serviceman who went to Vietnam was a volunteer”, because the notion that conscripts were sent to Vietnam didn’t sit neatly with the ANZAC myth.
    As for “laying it on the line”, I did have a father turn up at my classroom door when I was teaching a year five class in Goondiwindi primary school. He wanted me to cane his son for lying about something or other. I referred him to the principal who at that time, was the only person authorised to administer corporal punishment.
    The boy was not caned.
    You are so out of touch with reality that I suspect you’re living in some kind of fantasy world.
    Catallaxy feeds those fantasies.

  39. Roger

    Look at those dimwits in the street. They are not only your future, they are their own future. If you’re not worried you should be.

    Led by the dimwit in chief, Clive Hamilton.

  40. “I worked as a teacher, principal, regional manager and consultant from 1971 until 2017.”

    The opening line of the racist and Jooo hater’s new book of fiction…..just not quite up there with “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times” or “Call me Ishmael”.

  41. Behind Enemy Lines

    What exactly is to be done?
    Posted on 11:31 pm, October 7, 2019 by Steve Kates

    So what’s the plan? What should we be doing exactly that we are not doing already?

    It takes two to fight, but it takes only one to start a fight.

    That’s what the present street protests are about. One side is fighting. The other side (our side) is wittering, waving a finger, wunning away.

    Mobs in the street are a sponsored, organised, ongoing physical threat to ordinary citizens. A show of intimidation today, but a promise of violence tomorrow. Today, they put on a smiley face, bring out the kids, oldies and other useful idiots, then merrily damage your property and your business. Tomorrow, the thugs come in and the mask comes off. You’ll do what you’re told or they’ll be coming for you in person.

    Any State government that allows this is either complicit (Victoria and Queensland just love it) or illegitimate (NSW). The Commonwealth has responsibility for addressing politically-motivated violence and has sat on its hands for decades. In that respect the Commonwealth has also lost legitimacy.

    Consequently, the left gains strength, gets away with ever-greater outrages, stomps down any opposition, and so the cycle goes. Labour governments revel in the threat; LibNat governments surrender to it. In either case, the mobs in the street have no reason to knock it off. After all, they’re winning.

    So we end up in the present situation, where in any capital city CBD you can’t go about your lawful business in peace. You’re subject to the tantrum du jour, while the authorities stand around with their hands in their pockets. We can’t vote our way out of it, either, not under the present political parties.

    This leaves us in essence with two options. The first is to surrender to street intimidation like the LibNats have done. The second option is to counter it the hard way. This means organising nationwide to win political power, then putting ASIO and the police to work on these mobs and their backers for a couple of generations.

    That is much, much easier said than done. So, barring unforeseen events, I expect that Australians will continue taking Option 1.

  42. stackja

    PB
    #3177969, posted on October 8, 2019 at 9:19 am

    CCP rules. End of discussion.

  43. Old School Conservative

    ANZAC myth.

    Numbers, you keep using this term of derision, sliming the men who volunteered in WWI in particular, and who paid the ultimate sacrifice.
    8,000 Australians dead at Gallipoli and you pour shit on them by using “myth” to denigrate their legacy.
    Almost 3,000 New Zealanders died and you call ANZAC a myth.

    You are beyond contempt.

  44. 1735099

    You are beyond contempt.

    There is ANZAC history – a noble tradition and worth our respect.
    There is also ANZAC mythology, used by spivs and many conservative politicians for political gain.
    Those beyond contempt belong to the second group.
    We respect those who made the ultimate sacrifice, and those maimed and maddened by war by telling the truth about their service, not by making up nonsense to rationalise military blunders.
    We can at the same time deplore the debacles, but honour the diggers who were caught up in them.
    We dishonour them by Anzackery.

  45. Look at these ignorant yokels sitting on the streets of Melbourne. What exactly do you intend to do to get their attention. How are you going to get them to see how inane their concerns are?

    Simple really.
    The Holocausters should be given what they want. Shut off all access to fossil fuel power and hook them up to renewables which they pay the full unsubsidised price for. If the wind ain’t blowing and sun ain’t shining they get no juice.

    Then cut off all access to all products that use fossil fuels as a by-product.

    I call it the “You First” policy.

    In the age of facial recognition and social media, identifying Holocausters is easy. You can also get people to dob them in.

    But…along will come a bunch of cuckservatives and say “You can’t do that, what about their rights!”
    And so we will continue to lose and every few months will appear another post asking “but what can we do…?”
    And round and round we go circling the drain.

  46. Boambee John

    Lizzie at 0817

    God help our education system, because Numbers certainly won’t.

    God help our education system, because Numbers certainly didn’t.

    Fixed that for you.

  47. struth

    No, the Washington military establishment won that war BECAUSE they were in a position to step in late after everyone else was beaten down.

    Conservatism lost the war in every way imaginable: bigger government, higher taxes, overreach in violation of constitutional limitations, erosion of individual liberty.

    This is called being cute for the sake of it.
    I’d call it dribbling shit because it stuffs with your perceptions.

  48. struth

    I worked as a teacher, principal, regional manager and consultant from 1971 until 2017.
    Not once in all that time did I encounter a Communist in any of the schools, regions or districts I worked in.

    You are a fucking commo you idiot.
    You saw one every time you looked in your shaving mirror and wasn’t looking at children through it.

    As a commo who has openly said you are socialist, and excuse commos all the time, espouse commo theories and big government is your religion, I would suggest no big long multi paragraph statements, because no one here believes a word you say, since you constantly contradict yourself and don’t really understand politics, can’t explain your left from right and are a bitter old parasite to boot.

  49. struth

    What an utter nonsense. Trump has said repeatedly that HK is a Chinese internal affair. He is the most isolationist president since WWI.

    Doesn’t that impress the likes of you, Boris?

    Lefties are always whinging about the USA interfering.
    It positively gets our old commo mate foaming at the mouth, just mentioning the USA.

    Can you lefty fuckwits take a position that doesn’t change just because you are tribal political vacants?

  50. struth

    It is also largely true that conservatives despised the Nazis but went along with them. They did have reservations but common goal of restoring German pride resulted in almost unconditional support, especially as long he ‘was winning’.

    Conservatives as we know them today, freedom loving awesome people were unknown inside Germany in the day as they had never experienced it and, I would argue you’d be hard pressed to find one there today.

  51. Truth n Justice

    What conservatives? Well perhaps but in name only! I hear Morrison push the line of maintaining our own souverinty yet we are still in the Paris agreement and still sending representatives to the UN? I hear The Nationals leader talking big on water for farmers but not one new dam is planned and we still toss water into the sea to appease the loonie left? Conservative front benchers have now Publically signed up to the climate myth and so power prices do not drop. No wonder Hanson and the Shooters an Fishers are popular and unless the coalition does a bit more than just talk the talk they might find themselves in a bit of an electoral hole.

  52. struth

    What conservatives? Well perhaps but in name only! I hear Morrison push the line of maintaining our own souverinty yet we are still in the Paris agreement and still sending representatives to the UN? I hear

    The Nationals leader talking big on water for farmers but not one new dam is planned and we still toss water into the sea to appease the loonie left? Conservative front benchers have now Publically signed up to the climate myth and so power prices do not drop. No wonder Hanson and the Shooters an Fishers are popular and unless the coalition does a bit more than just talk the talk they might find themselves in a bit of an electoral hole.

    I actually do not think we have a true conservative in the Australian Parliament.

  53. Conservatism lost the war in every way imaginable: bigger government, higher taxes, overreach in violation of constitutional limitations, erosion of individual liberty.

    Because they were out doing the fighting and dying whilst the Fabians were hard at work preparing the ground for their post-war takeover. Never ever forget the far left of socialism supported the far right of socialism right up until 22/6/41. The biggest error was not kicking the living shit out of the far left after the war for this.

  54. Linden

    Wondering how many of these climate screamers, are intending to fly off somewhere for their christmas hollies, seems to me they are a bunch of do as I sayers not as I do. I also notice that that their tent city in the Carlton Gardens is made of plastic sheeting and tents made from materials derived from the oil industries products etc. Once again do as I say not as I do!

  55. struth

    Conservatism lost the war in every way imaginable: bigger government, higher taxes, overreach in violation of constitutional limitations, erosion of individual liberty.

    This is where he was being cute.
    Different wars.
    Conservative right wing western nations won the second world war, and then the socialists regrouped and started again, from inside the borders.

  56. BorisG

    That will change if things start being spread to other parts of China.

    They won’t

  57. Arky

    It’s the old test. One for every generation.
    Once things reach this stage there is no cure but war, rebellion and bloodshed.
    The test is not to go there.
    Instead, follow the teachings of Jesus. Read your bible, keep a watch out, and don’t fall for the numerous manipulations being directed at you.

  58. Lee

    Childish tosh – socialism and climate change are the new boogey men.

    Like all true communists and socialists, deny that you exist and are a threat to democracy.

    Even Extinction Rebellion and others (including the UN) admit that what they are on about is massive social and economic change and suspending or doing away with democracy, as much “climate change.”.

    It reminds me of tales thought up by lazy parents to frighten their children.

    Like scaring them that the world is going to end because of “climate change” in a few years?

  59. BorisG

    Can you lefty fuckwits take a position that doesn’t change just because you are tribal political vacants?

    I can’t speak for imaginary lefty fuckwits but my own position is consistent. I support US soft power projection around the globe, support for freedom loving governments etc. I oppose military overreach without a clear exit strategy, or any wider strategy for that matter, like wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I must admit I was cautiously supportive of both actions but I was probably wrong.

    I am always a globalist and was always against anti-globalization protests, supported free trade agreements (largely opposed to radical left) etc.

    Isolationism for the US is unsustainable in the current globalized world. That was true in 1939 and is even more true now. Not sure about 1914.

    But then I was never a leftist in the first place. At least not in international affairs.

  60. Lee

    What an utter nonsense. Trump has said repeatedly that HK is a Chinese internal affair. He is the most isolationist president since WWI.
    Doesn’t that impress the likes of you, Boris?

    Lefties are always whinging about the USA interfering.
    It positively gets our old commo mate foaming at the mouth, just mentioning the USA.

    President Bush was attacked by the left for invading Iraq.
    President Trump is attacked by the left for not invading Syria.
    The same left that worries that since PDT was elected he would start World War III.
    It seems no matter what he does, he can’t win with the left.

  61. Arky

    Mobs in the street are a sponsored, organised, ongoing physical threat to ordinary citizens. A show of intimidation today, but a promise of violence tomorrow. Today, they put on a smiley face, bring out the kids, oldies and other useful idiots, then merrily damage your property and your business. Tomorrow, the thugs come in and the mask comes off. You’ll do what you’re told or they’ll be coming for you in person.

    ..
    Correct, I think. These are not spontaneous events.

  62. BorisG

    Conservatives as we know them today, freedom loving awesome people were unknown inside Germany in the day as they had never experienced it and, I would argue you’d be hard pressed to find one there today.

    Well they did not have conservatives of today. They had conservatives largely of aristocratic mold, shaped largely in 19th century.

    A valid question is then: does this history taint conservatives of today? Probably not. But then why paint today’s democratic socialists be it in Sweden or USA as commies and Stalinists?

  63. BorisG

    President Bush was attacked by the left for invading Iraq.
    President Trump is attacked by the left for not invading Syria.

    Conservatives supported Bush’s war in Iraq
    Conservatives oppose even limited military presence in Syria.
    Maybe they learn?

    In fairness the situation is not the same.

    US invasion in Iraq started the bloodshed (or more precisely escalated it).
    US limited action in Iraq was called for to STOP the bloodshed. Both Obama and Trump failed on that score and gave Syria to the Iranians, Russians and now Turks.

    I am not suggesting widespread invasion of Syria. I support limited presence to protect US national interests.

    Likewise I wouldn’t be crazy to support any kind of military escalation over HK. But a clear price to pay for non military action like increased military aid to Taiwan etc. instead Trump is clearly focused on trade only.

  64. Beachcomber

    But then why paint today’s democratic socialists be it in Sweden or USA as commies and Stalinists?

    Leftism attacks Western society through Marxist ideology.

    Economic Marxism and destroys prosperity and freedom but societies can recover from it, as we are seeing in Russia and Eastern Europe.

    The modern ‘democratic’ Marxists of western Europe, north America, Australia etc. are far more dangerous than the old-style Stalinists. They use Cultural Marxism to destroy Western societies through importing Mozlem vote herds, environmentalism, and identity group dismantling of Western social norms such as marriage, gender, and limits on abortion. Western societies cannot come back from such cultural degradation.

  65. RobK

    Could it be that Trump is pulling out of Syria because:
    1) Let NATO wake up to itself.
    2) Tidy up loose ends before leaning on NK.

  66. 1735099

    You are a fucking commo you idiot.

    And you are an abusive twerp who has an obsession with Communism.
    You wouldn’t recognise socialism if it bit you on the backside.
    Go away.

  67. NuThink

    What an utter nonsense. Trump has said repeatedly that HK is a Chinese internal affair. He is the most isolationist president since WWI.

    You left out something very important – he also said he would hold out on trade deal talks until the situation in Hong Kong is resolved. So the CCP is under notice that if they send in the tanks there is no trade deal but worsening economic conditions and tariffs for the CCP which could cause internal strife or a coup or some such problem for the CCP. Also sending in the tanks would give China a difficult time with other democracies.

    Also I see no way that the US could go into Hong Kong militarily and hope to win, and also lose the propaganda war.

    Secondly Trump is being castigated for pulling the troops out of Eastern Syria.
    But if you listen to more than just the headlines Trump said he will be watching Turkey and if their behaviour towards the Kurds warrants a response it will be economic such that the Turkish economy will suffer (and badly). The Turks will now be very aware of this and that the US is not hesitant to use economic power against Turkey. Erdogan was in NY last week for the UN speak fest and may have even had discussions with the US administration. I don’t know, just guessing. Turkey is part of NATO and if I recall even flies F-16 or F-15s. They would be useless without spare parts.

    The Chinese reference seems to be the Sun Tzu’s the “Art of War” (from 2,600 years ago), while Trump practices Trump’s modern era “Art of the Deal“.
    ie The Pen may actually is Mightier Than the Sword.

    So both the CCP and Turkey have to weigh up the advantages of war (in their eyes) and the disadvantage of their own people suffering a worsening economy and getting restless.

    Just my opinions.

  68. Bosnich

    Numbers ….
    “Once upon a time when Labour owed more to Methodism than Marx,it was a hallmark of progressive politics to attempt to minimise harm and maximise socially responsible behaviour.
    But now,Labour chooses to attack socially responsible behaviour and provide instead rocket fuel for social devastation and individual misery.”
    Melanie Philips.

  69. “Go away.”

    The despicable Jooo hating racist turd censoring again. He doesn’t like the truth…especially when Struth nails him.

  70. A Lurker

    Could it be that Trump is pulling out of Syria because:
    1) Let NATO wake up to itself.
    2) Tidy up loose ends before leaning on NK.

    3) Something big is about to go down back in the USA?
    I keep hearing the date 17 October, this year.
    Mark it on your calendars.

  71. NuThink

    Cassie of Sydney
    #3177915, posted on October 8, 2019 at 8:13 am
    “Braver souls do more. Which is why medals are awarded for bravery.
    And names go down in history for it. The genuinely Righteous. Honor them.”

    Yes….when you were in Israel…did you go to Yad Vashem?

    I did not go to Yad Vashem, but did walk around the Masada ruins atop a mountain next to the Dead Sea, where a few thousand years ago the people committed suicide rather than submit to the Romans who built a ramp up to the settlement.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masada

    Masada (Hebrew: מצדה metsada, “fortress”)[1] is an ancient fortification in the Southern District of Israel situated on top of an isolated rock plateau, akin to a mesa. It is located on the eastern edge of the Judaean Desert, overlooking the Dead Sea 20 km (12 mi) east of Arad.

    Herod the Great built two palaces for himself on the mountain and fortified Masada between 37 and 31 BCE.

    According to Josephus, the siege of Masada by Roman troops from 73 to 74 CE, at the end of the First Jewish–Roman War, ended in the mass suicide of the 960 Sicarii rebels who were hiding there.

    Masada is one of Israel’s most popular tourist attractions.[2]

    The chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Moshe Dayan, initiated the practice of holding the swearing-in ceremony of Israeli Armoured Corps soldiers who had completed their tironut (IDF basic training) on top of Masada. The ceremony ended with the declaration: “Masada shall not fall again.” The soldiers climbed the Snake Path at night and were sworn in with torches lighting the background.[44] These ceremonies are now also held at various other locations, including the Armoured Corps Memorial at Latrun, the Western Wall and Ammunition Hill in Jerusalem, Akko prison, and training bases.

  72. Rococo Liberal

    One could get quite depressed, and do as Winston does. Just sit tight.
    I expect that is what many did in Germany until the bombs started to move them on.
    Resistance lies in small things for many of us.
    A little blog here and there. A gentle remonstrance.
    A wail amongst like-minded people. An occasional head up over the parapet.
    A letter to a politician. Speaking out at a party to people who gulp at your views.
    Even if secretly they agree with you. The sub-text of fundamental decency.
    This at least we can maintain.

    Excellent advice. I have noticed something over the years. It is far easier to get people on side if they think you are clever about something else other than political matters. The least persuasive people are those who only care about politics and think they know all the intricacies of what’s going on in Parliament. We may pretend to respect the opinion of such people, but in my expereince, once they’ve gone the party gets better an we all joke about them.

  73. Iampeter

    Can you lefty fuckwits take a position that doesn’t change just because you are tribal political vacants?

    That’s basically what I keep asking you lefty fuckwits.

    What an utter nonsense. Trump has said repeatedly that HK is a Chinese internal affair. He is the most isolationist president since WWI.

    Trump is working so hard to prevent tanks from rolling in that he’s agreed to stay quiet about the whole thing.

    Kates is basically Trump’s mini-CNN.

  74. Paul Farmer

    Of course the other elephant in the room in the 1930’s that this ignoramus forgets about is Communism. This is why many reasonable people who were centre or centre right didn’t recognize the Nazi threat until it was too late. Hitler was the only person standing up to the Communists on the world stage in the early 1930’s and after the 1917 Revolution , people in the west perceived the spread of international bolshevism as a real and existential threat. This is also why many in Britain didn’t see Hitler as a real threat until well into the late 1930’s and many admired him. Churchill thank goodness was the exception…….

    Add to that there was a major economic collapse in the late 1920’s & 1930’s called embarrassingly for this author ……the Great Depression, which is absolutely a pivotal event that needs to be understood by its magnitude and effect. People saw the rise of Communism in many like places like Germany which was extremely hard hit as almost inevitable if a strong man like Hitler didn’t fill the vacuum.

    I am not making excuses for the Germans but you have to be honest historically about the context. The other angle Hitler played well was Nationalism as he pushed for a re-unification of Germany with the territories lost from the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1. This played to many Germans sense of pride. This was all done before it was fully evident what his policies to the Jews or other minorities would be.

    If you don’t understand this context , you are portraying a simple but false sense of history as this author seems to be . On some level too its pretty offensive too because it almost implies conservative people don’t have principles and yet that couldn’t be further from the truth. Many good people in Germany in the 1930’s gave Hitler and his thugs the benefit of the doubt out of fear of Communism and history showed there choice up to be devastating in the end but it is exceedingly easy for those of us living approx 90 years on with no understanding of the context to throw out glib garbage like this.

    The other issue at play in German culture which Hitler played on with his nationalistic zeal was the appeal to the collective, to put one’s country before one’s self. This is something that authors like Hayek commented on. This anthropology goes right back through the 19th century and was strong in the Bismark era and comes through in the writings of Hegel.

    There was no history of individualism and self interested enlightment , principles championed by conservatives in countries like Britain and the US over the preceding 200 years. So someone should not generalise about all forms of “conservatism” as being essentially the same, to do so would also be a historical falsehood, conservatism as we know it in Britain was much different to what existed on the continent.

  75. bespoke

    BorisG
    #3178209, posted on October 8, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    Likewise I wouldn’t be crazy to support any kind of military escalation over HK.

    Good

    But a clear price to pay for non military action like increased military aid to Taiwan etc. instead Trump is clearly focused on trade only.

    Yep it’s next and if let go all other partnerships are just paper.

  76. Cassie of Sydney

    “Paul Farmer
    #3178373, posted on October 8, 2019 at 2:58 pm”

    Very good comment Paul.

  77. 1735099

    Many good people in Germany in the 1930’s gave Hitler and his thugs the benefit of the doubt out of fear of Communism

    Hang about.
    According to many of the ahistorical nitwits who post here – Hitler was a socialist.
    Obviously, according to them socialism must have been OK by the good burghers of the Third Reich but communism was not.
    History has moved on.
    The same nationalistic claptrap with its targeting of minorities and appeal to authoritarianism which drove those who were hoodwinked by Hitler is re-emerging in the UK in the followers of Johnson, and in the USA in those who support Trump.
    It’s exactly the same playbook.
    History doesn’t repeat itself but it rhymes.

  78. Behind Enemy Lines

    1735099
    #3178540, posted on October 8, 2019 at 5:47 pm

    Hang about.

    According to many of the ahistorical nitwits who post here – Hitler was a socialist.

    Numbers, I’ll let you and your international socialists argue with the national socialists about why True Socialism has never really been tried, and where it all went wrong. But suggesting that Brexiteers and Maga-ists are on the same side as you lot . . . that’s a bit rich. One could call it a form of blood libel.

  79. Mater

    According to many of the ahistorical nitwits who post here – Hitler was a socialist.

    Yep. Other flavours included SRs, Democratic Socialists, Bolsheviks, Mensheviks and Trotskyites – and they didn’t necessarily get along either!

    Obviously, according to them socialism must have been OK by the good burghers of the Third Reich but communism was not.

    At some stage everyone has to choose the lesser of two evils. It doesn’t make Hitler right wing, just to the right of Stalin.

    Even in 1943 tens of thousands of refugees from the Soviet provinces trailed along behind the retreating German army – anything was better than remaining under Communism.

    – The Gulag Archipelago, Vol III, p31

  80. Muddy

    1. Resolve to cease being a wind-tunnel poser, and acknowledge that without at least trying to do something, you are unworthy of your ancestry and will occupy a blank space in the minds of your descendants.
    2. Know your opponents. Study them in detail. What makes them do what they do? Is there a hiearchy or structure? How does that work?
    3. Realise – finally – that a rational debate or conversation, with desired practical outcomes, is only possible between participants who speak the same language.
    4. Acknowledge that the occupation of the highest moral peak will not always guarantee the best view or provide that feeling of achievement. This is NOT to say that the morals and values that underpin your world view should be discarded, but that on the tallest moral peak, one can be isolated and physically trapped. The clouds can also close in and obscure your vision.
    5. Seek a framework through which to create and implement your strategies, so your actions are not ad hoc and reactive/defensive. I have suggested previously that counter-insurgency theory be adapted to a civil situation; I suggested this because the most dangerous of our opponents come from within: they attack from the protection of our institutions and swim alongside normal, non-threatening members of our population. Adopting such a lens is a procedural issue only.
    6. If you truly know your opponent/s, you will have identified their enablers; their support network. No threat can exist without support, both visible and invisible. I have previously used the analogy of an old-style timber chair: If you weaken or saw off one or more of the chair’s legs, the remaining pieces of the chair cannot perform the required function of a chair. Therefore it is no longer a chair, but a seat and a backrest in the dusty corner of a garden shed. If you ignore the legs and attack the chair as a whole, if it is solidly built, it will withstand a great deal of weight. Reduce the ability or willingness of enablers to support the target you seek to primarily focus upon.

  81. mareeS

    We are from a media background, we would not insult ourselves by calling it a class, it was a vocation if anything way back in the mists. However, we have offspring now in their 30s who think for themselves and that thinking seems to favour the conservative view of making their own decisions, refusing to be told otherwise.

    Interestingly, they work and live between Australia and Asia recently, and they find Asia cruiser than here now.

  82. bespoke

    The Gulag Archipelago

    Hang on that’s fiction, A ‘teacher’ said so

  83. Muddy

    bespoke
    #3178706, posted on October 8, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    The Gulag Archipelago

    Hang on that’s fiction, A ‘teacher’ said so

    I suspect he meant the Clag Archipelago.
    Easy mistake to make.
    It’s all about frenetics, apparently.

  84. 1735099

    At some stage everyone has to choose the lesser of two evils. It doesn’t make Hitler right wing, just to the right of Stalin.

    There was very little choice involved, once fear and loathing took over.
    The Trumps and Johnsons of this world pitch their message to the lower brain.
    It works a treat with some.
    Pauline Hanson’s trajectory is a great example in this country.
    There’s always 10% of the populace vulnerable to paranoia.
    On this blog, it’s closer to 80%.

  85. Bosnich

    Numbers …so Johnson tries to actually get Brexit done and this makes him and those who voted for it Nazis..or those of a”lower brain”
    And you were a “teacher” FFS !

  86. dover_beach

    The Trumps and Johnsons of this world pitch their message to the lower brain.
    It works a treat with some.
    Pauline Hanson’s trajectory is a great example in this country.
    There’s always 10% of the populace vulnerable to paranoia.
    On this blog, it’s closer to 80%.

    This from the fella that is constantly complaining about the tone of discussion.

  87. John Stankevicius

    1735999
    Re Johnson and Trump.
    The English public voted for Brexit. Listening to the people interviewed in the midlands and north two things they wanted:
    To make things and work with their hands
    To have regular working hours and not sit by the phone needy for it to ring to have some one say “come in”
    Mr Trump is arresting the demise of practical and creative jobs eg manufacturing. This work drives technology and intellectual rigour.
    These globalist/socialists have never learned a practical skill. As wise man commented above these people have been taken care of and have not needed to work for shelter warmth and hunger.

  88. BorisG

    Many good people in Germany in the 1930’s gave Hitler and his thugs the benefit of the doubt out of fear of Communism

    I agree with this. Except for the adjective ‘good’. That is a judgement call, and a highly questionable at that.

  89. BorisG

    Numbers, even remotely comparing Trump and Johnson with Hitler removes whatever credibility you have.

  90. John Stankevicius

    1735099
    The English population voted for brexit – people interviewed about the vote from the midlands and north of there said the following
    We want to work with our hands and make things like we used to in the 19th and first half of the 20 century
    I don’t want to stay at home all day waiting for the phone to ring for me to come into work
    Trump is returning manufacturing back to the US and protecting the American way of life. All kind of work, a house with a yard.
    Less govt and beaucracy which really in most cases is a complete waste of time and feeds victim hood and dobbing in the idiotic of acts.
    Why the public is listening to the most idiotic of groups , the student union is beyond me.
    Also why is it if you are an entertainer who does not need to work but cause personal carnage around them and ask’s the working man for more money you

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