Tuesday Forum: October 8, 2019

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2,880 Responses to Tuesday Forum: October 8, 2019

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  1. Eyrie

    “Michelle Bachelet used a speech in Sydney to slam the “public narrative in Australia” which has been “weaponised by misinformation and discriminatory, and even racist attitudes, including with respect to Is la aam.””

    Seeing as she fled the Pinochet regime in Chile I’d say she was a communist and unfortunately missed out on a Pinochet helicopter sightseeing tour.

  2. struth

    Michelle Bachelet used a speech in Sydney to slam the “public narrative in Australia” which has been “weaponised by misinformation and discriminatory, and even racist attitudes, including with respect to Islaaam.”

    An ex Chilean politician of guess what party?

    Fuck off mole.
    Did you get here by plane you hypocritical old elitist mole?

  3. Happy Trump Ethnic Cleansing Day, everyone!

  4. Iampeter

    I’ve got no real interest in stoushing with you, as I really don’t think you’re worth the bother.

    Yes, yes you’re so smart and have so many arguments that you can article nothing but smug condescension.
    Good argument. Almost as good as Knuckles, “you’re words are too big so you are stupid.”

    Your utopia is every bit as unobtainable and dangerous as that of the Marxists.

    No, opposite ideas to Marxism are not also Marxism. You’re so smeart.

    Why are you here?

    Because this blog is advertised as Libertarian and centre-right blog. Not raving, clueless leftist, crackpots.
    The real question is why are spergs and raving lunatics like you here?
    It kinda answers itself though. Also this is probably the only place you wouldn’t be banned.

  5. A Lurker

    Is the Pope Christian?

    If what an aging Italian atheist journalist, a long-time friend of Pope Francis, said is true, Pope Francis has just denied the divinity of Our Lord.
    Here is the relevant quote, supposedly from the Pope, as reported by Eugenio Scalfari.
    He says, “Francis told me, ‘They are the proven proof that Jesus of Nazareth, once having become a man, was, though a man of exceptional virtues, not at all a God.'”
    And further in the article, Scalfari gives his interpretation of what Pope Francis meant, based on what he calls their greatest cultural intimacy: “Pope Francis conceives Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, man, not God incarnate. Once incarnate, Jesus stops being a God and becomes a man until his death on the cross.”

  6. struth

    And Trump is still President!

    Hey Monster, can you give us your learned prediction on the outcome of the next US election?
    Whaddaya reckon?

  7. Eyrie

    OK I looked up her bio, Bachelet is most definitely communist vermin.

  8. struth

    Iampoyda saying nothing again.

  9. min

    well Albo if you only get your science from the ABC , The Guardian and other left leaning media you will only have one side of it . Something like what Galileo , Bruno, he is the statue in Campo di Fiori for being burnt at the stake having a different opinion of science, were up against with the Vatican. Their science was proved correct in the long run .

  10. feelthebern

    Tulsi has blown herself up on twitter.
    She’s demonstrated she’s not anti war.
    It was a slogan to differentiate herself from the other candidates.
    She’s made the 4th debate.
    I doubt whether she’ll make the 5th debate.
    & her supporters will simply vanish/stay at home.

  11. johanna

    The Nobel seems well deserved, for once, but they sure took their time. The actual work was done decades ago, and one of the winners (Whittingham) is 97 years old. It’s amazing that he’s still around to receive it.

    Seems odd that it took so long. Nobel prize politics is pretty murky.

  12. candy

    Apparently she is gutted that she has been outed as the source of the SMH story.

    I wonder whether the SMH journalists who I suspect are neo feminists looking for hero women stories go out looking for these unbalanced individuals and encourage them to do stupid stuff, or the individuals are SMH readers and seek out the journalists to let them know what stupid stuff they are doing looking for attention.

    It always seems the SMH finds these befuddled odd folk doing weird stuff.

  13. feelthebern

    This Ellen, GWB, is also having an impact with Dem voters.
    A corporate/establishment Dem can not win without the left of the party.
    The left of the Dem party will simply not turn out (unless Cal & NY).
    Seeing all the corporate Dem’s fawning over Ellen’s GWB response would have just punched a lot of the Dem party in the guts.
    Trump is going to Reagan this, like ’84.

  14. mh

    He’s got a point there…

    Stop feeding the troll and see what happens.
    I bet he’ll scamper back to the peripheral threads, to well-deserved relative anonymity.

    Everything has been tried with the young fella.

    Iampeter is determined to never grow up, and I think it is down to Sinclair now to explain to young Peter that enough is enough, then send him packing.

  15. thefrollickingmole

    Thier ABC laying doggo on potential spying, political corruption and an entire State party organisation being owned by China.

    If this made it into the “banner” newstories” it was as brief as possible.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-09/icac-told-nsw-labor-boss-got-35-000-hidden-in-wine-box/11585342
    His evidence follows that of former ALP community relations director Kendrick Cheah, who said Mr Clements gave him the $100,000 to process shortly after Mr Huang arrived at the ALP’s Sussex Street headquarters.

    Mr Clements resigned as NSW Labor general secretary in 2016 amid sexual harassment allegations.

    Yesterday the inquiry heard Mr Clements then took up an offer of a $200,000 retainer and a rent-free office from Mr Huang, to advise him on government relations and other matters.

  16. Zyconoclast

    cohenite
    #3180016, posted on October 10, 2019 at 8:12 am
    I wonder if this Kurd business is going to bite Trump.

    I doubt it. In reality very few people give a rats @rse about them.

    The Kurds are not good guy and are not friends to the Christians in that part of the world.

    How Will the Kurds Impose Their Hegemony on Christians in Northern Syria?

    Christians living under Kurdish rule in northern Syria have been subjected to harsh conditions as people have been arrested and schools closed writes Al-Hal.

  17. Bruce of Newcastle #3179988, posted on October 10, 2019 at 7:16 am

    Price Shock! German Consumer Electricity Rates Climb To “New Record High”, Reaching A Whopping 30.85 Cents/Kwh!
    ..
    That converts to 50.3 c/KWh in Aussie. Bonkers.

    If I have my arithmetic right:
    NBN modem/router $90 pa
    The freezer – don’t even think about it
    Chilling beer – get used to warm beer

  18. calli

    Why hasn’t the NSW Labor Party been deregistered due to criminal activities?

  19. Knuckle Dragger

    I must say, Iampudenda is the most sufflatoriate, sententious pseudointellectual this place has seen in some time.

    He’s still wrong though.

  20. notafan

    Kurds disarmed Christians on the Nineveh Plains and then left them to be slaughtered by is

  21. thefrollickingmole

    calli

    Same bloke handed over the electoral roll to his union mates and was convicted of it.

    I can only assume there is no calls for investigations as the Libs are just as comfortable with cash donations from the quisling wing of the PRC.
    $100,000 for an entire state political party/union clout, what a bargain.

  22. Knuckle Dragger

    I truly believe that NSW Labor are scratching their heads, clueless as to why people have the shits on with them.

    They can’t understand it.

    ‘What? We’ve been dealing with wads of cash in placky bags and wine boxes for generations! It’s the Australian way! It’s the Labor way!’

  23. candy

    The Dems hate Trump so much they want their own citizens to die in a war.

  24. Eyrie

    Screw the Kurds. Just another bunch of Arabs. wonder who their PR firm is?

  25. notafan

    Galileo died of natural causes, nor where his differences with the Church matters of science but matters of theology

    Bruno did not not get burned at the stake for scientific differences

    He went first to Padua, where he taught briefly, and applied unsuccessfully for the chair of mathematics, which was given instead to Galileo Galilei one year later. Bruno accepted Mocenigo’s invitation and moved to Venice in March 1592. For about two months he served as an in-house tutor to Mocenigo. When Bruno announced his plan to leave Venice to his host, the latter, who was unhappy with the teachings he had received and had apparently come to dislike Bruno, denounced him to the Venetian Inquisition, which had Bruno arrested on 22 May 1592. Among the numerous charges of blasphemy and heresy brought against him in Venice, based on Mocenigo’s denunciation, was his belief in the plurality of worlds, as well as accusations of personal misconduct. Bruno defended himself skillfully, stressing the philosophical character of some of his positions, denying others and admitting that he had had doubts on some matters of dogma. The Roman Inquisition, however, asked for his transfer to Rome. After several months of argument, the Venetian authorities reluctantly consented and Bruno was sent to Rome in February 1593.

    holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith and speaking against it and its ministers;
    holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and Incarnation;
    holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith pertaining to Jesus as Christ;
    holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith regarding the virginity of Mary, mother of Jesus;
    holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about both Transubstantiation and Mass;
    claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity;
    believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes;
    dealing in magics and divination.

    very very sick of the same falsehoods getting trotted out

  26. dover_beach

    Kurds disarmed Christians on the Nineveh Plains and then left them to be slaughtered by IS.

    True. You reap what you sow.

  27. Knuckle Dragger

    Sorry.

    For the briefest of moments, I wasn’t thinking of Gladys Liu.

    Still the Australian way. I’m still waiting for my wine box full of pineapples though.

  28. bespoke

    mh
    #3180108, posted on October 10, 2019 at 10:24 am
    Iampeter is determined to never grow up, and I think it is down to Sinclair now to explain to young Peter that enough is enough, then send him packing.

    At one time you could rely on reality hitting once they left home but no more.

  29. 1735099

    Sometimes we have to speak up…sometimes we have to complain…sometimes we have to be activists.

    And sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot.
    You labelled the shooter as “far right” yourself when you abused me up- thread.

    hatred of Jooos is shared by both the far left and far right.

  30. Herodotus

    I’ll drop this link in here just before the new thread goes up I suppose.
    Mark Steyn is in great form with his piece on the Frogs, using the demise of Chirac as his starting point.
    Eurodee and Eurodum.

  31. Bruce of Newcastle

    Happy Trump Ethnic Cleansing Day, everyone!

    M0nty – US troops defending Kurds against Turkish NATO allies is illegal under US law as passed by Congress. Therefore blame Congress, which is controlled by Democrats.

  32. Geriatric Mayfly

    Two white guys & a Japanese dude.

    And the RoP missed out again. What’s the problem with 1400 yers of solid education?

  33. Don’t be stupid, Bruce. Trump could have said no, and Turkey wouldn’t have proceeded. But he gave it the big ole, because he wants Trump Towers Istanbul to make a profit, and instead gave Erdogan a free pass to bomb the Kurds to the shizenhausen.

  34. Knuckle Dragger

    Munter appears to be quite happy for DJT to be the world cop.

    A weird cat.

  35. 1735099

    Idiot. If the creep had shot up a few mosques and women in potato sacks I might have conceded a point.

    The clear intention of your post was to link this shooting with the RoP.
    It has no connection whatsoever.
    The shooter in his rants condemned both Joos and Mus-lims.
    You are exhibiting exactly the same mindset as the shooter, and the thug who carried out the slaughter in Christchurch. Many of the themes this shooter spouted, constitute the daily drivel served up here.
    These themes include the “great replacement” theory, and the “voteherd” meme.
    This is a very sick place…..

    Now piss off and get some more info about how much safer we are without 2nd amendment rights.

    Classic red herring.
    This incident has absolutely nothing to do with US gun laws (or the lack thereof).

  36. “And sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot.
    You labelled the shooter as “far right” yourself when you abused me up- thread.”

    yes Jooo hater…because he probably is “far right”….just as you…Jooo hater…is far left. Oh….and there is always silence from you when there is an attack on Jooos by the RoP….silence from you last week when the news came out above that boy forced to prostrate himself to a Muuuuuuuuuuuuuslim boy in Melbourne. Silence from you because as far as you are concerned…some Jooo hatred is okay. And that matter is now in the hands of the police because Joooo hater…the boy was subject to violent death threats from Muuuusliiiim boys. But you’re okay with that aren’t you? Jooo hatred from the far right – bad, Jooo hatred from RoP and the far left – good or I’ll just turn a blind eye to that.

    As I wrote above…fuck off Jooo hating racist.

  37. Nelson Kidd-Players

    Top Ender, any reports that the gene for cane toads has been enquired of by certain demographics? The NSW premier could offer it up as an alternative to sex-selective abortion.

  38. 1735099

    yes Jooo hater…because he probably is “far right”

    Thank you.
    Now if you had any intellectual integrity, you’d phone the Oz and apologise.

  39. bespoke

    Classic red herring.
    This incident has absolutely nothing to do with US gun laws (or the lack thereof).

    I respect numberwang protecting his IP.

  40. struth

    And sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot.
    You labelled the shooter as “far right” yourself when you abused me up- thread.

    Although Sniffy McOmmo wouldn’t know his left from right, I do agree with him there.

    Anti Semitism has nothing to do with the right, remembering extreme right is anarchy.

    It has always belonged to the collectivist left.
    Always.
    From socialist Hitler, to present day leftists, it’s always, and has always been, collectivists.
    It has to be.
    Just because the left want to disown their shit, doesn’t mean we let them.

  41. Bruce of Newcastle

    Don’t be stupid, Bruce. Trump could have said no, and Turkey wouldn’t have proceeded.

    Trump said no.

    Trump threatens to ‘totally destroy and obliterate’ Turkey’s economy if it takes ‘off-limits’ actions in Syria (8 Oct)

    That is within his executive power whereas he may not legally commit US forces against Turkish forces. We’ll see how it pans out. So far the lira is taking a fright which suggests markets think Erdogan isn’t going to behave.

    I suspect the complete lack of reporting of NATO alliance legal limitations means the Left is salivating at the prospect of actually having a legal basis to impeach Trump, which at present they do not – and know that they don’t, hence the lack of an impeachment resolution in the House.

  42. cohenite

    Zyconoclast

    #3180110, posted on October 10, 2019 at 10:25 am

    cohenite
    #3180016, posted on October 10, 2019 at 8:12 am
    I wonder if this Kurd business is going to bite Trump.

    I doubt it. In reality very few people give a rats @rse about them.

    The Kurds are not good guy and are not friends to the Christians in that part of the world.

    All true. The point I was getting to is Trump not only has to deal with shit-stains in the msm, the demorats and assorted loons but RINOs on his own side and neocons who will use this to beat Trump up. Every rational argument put forward by Trump will be drowned by the hysteria.

    I still reckon mueller cost Trump the house in 2018 I hope this isn’t the issue which does him in for 2020.

  43. struth

    Cassie, how did you come to the conclusion he was extreme right wing?

  44. “1735099
    #3180136, posted on October 10, 2019 at 10:57 am”

    Nothing to apologise for racist. You haven’t comprehended anything have you? Probably because, being the serial fantasist and racist you are….you are incapable of understanding anything. Did you get off when you heard the news from Germany….you always enjoy the spectacle of “dead Jooos”.

  45. Trump said no.

    LOL, he had advance notice of Erdogan’s plans and waved them through. Give this one up Bruce, it’s a loser.

  46. 1735099

    Did you get off when you heard the news from Germany….you always enjoy the spectacle of “dead Jooos”.

    You really need to get help.

  47. struth

    Let’s examine the mind set of a hater and a moron

    The clear intention of your post was to link this shooting with the RoP.
    It has no connection whatsoever.
    The shooter in his rants condemned both Joos and Mus-lims.
    You are exhibiting exactly the same mindset as the shooter,

    Cassie apparently said she’d like to shoot people………………….
    and the thug who carried out the slaughter in Christchurch. Many of the themes this shooter spouted, constitute the daily drivel served up here.

    This is pure hate filled mudslinging because he’s not really understanding or comprehending what he is reading
    Magical thinking…………..just saying it makes it so.

    These themes include the “great replacement” theory, and the “voteherd” meme.
    This is a very sick place…..

    Admitted to time and again by left wing politicians.
    It’s not a theory , it’s fact.

    Now piss off and get some more info about how much safer we are without 2nd amendment rights.

    Classic red herring.
    This incident has absolutely nothing to do with US gun laws (or the lack thereof).

    One sided gunfights are a left wing speciality.
    As long as the innocent can’t fie back, evil is happy.

  48. Iampeter

    Iampeter is determined to never grow up, and I think it is down to Sinclair now to explain to young Peter that enough is enough, then send him packing.

    Yes calling for people to be banned that you can’t counter.
    Another classic leftist move at the cat.
    Also, I think you’re very confused as to what this website is about and who should actually be sent packing.
    You need to head back to Infowars where you belong.

  49. “1735099
    #3180147, posted on October 10, 2019 at 11:08 am
    Did you get off when you heard the news from Germany….you always enjoy the spectacle of “dead Jooos”.”

    Note that the Jooo hater didn’t answer my question.

  50. Dr Faustus

    Nobel prize politics is pretty murky.

    For technical disciplines, certainly.
    For the Peace Prize – just like voting for the Logies.

    Greta Thunberg and Pope Francis are two of the front-runners for this year’s Nobel Peace Prize

  51. cohenite

    The clear intention of your post was to link this shooting with the RoP.
    It has no connection whatsoever.

    Dickhead, the template for this sort of thing was established by the RoP;

    The shooter in his rants condemned both Joos and Mus-lims.

    That’s a lie, the shooter never mentioned RoP. He was an anti-Semite just like the RoP.

    You are exhibiting exactly the same mindset as the shooter, and the thug who carried out the slaughter in Christchurch.

    Christchurch was a leftie greenie; you’re the only leftie greenie here; until scum like you own the RoP, leftie terrorists and the terrible consequences of the calamitous issues you perpetrate on mankind you will continue to be the main threat to humanity just like the great plagues in the past. In short you’re a germ.

    Now do something useful and dig up some more anti-2nd amendment leftie arguments so we can have a laugh at your stupidity.

  52. stackja

    I note trio to scroll by.
    Sinc tolerates them!

  53. Bruce of Newcastle

    LOL, he had advance notice of Erdogan’s plans and waved them through. Give this one up Bruce, it’s a loser.

    So ‘totally destroy and obliterate’ means ‘waved them through’?

    War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength eh M0nty?
    Someone said this once. I wonder who it was?

  54. struth

    Yes calling for people to be banned that you can’t counter.

    It’s hard to counter people who aren’t saying anything, except inert stupidities like no one understands politics here while you are the only one that does.
    That’s elitist leftism if ever there was.
    So politics according to Iamgod, means no tolerance of opposing views, no discussion, disagree with Iamgod and no one gets politics!
    You dumb bastards!!!
    Have you head the term “tyrant”
    And people that can’t argue a point are, obviously, pointless.
    You are pointless.
    You’re a moron and a lefty.

    What are you doing here?

  55. Bruce of Newcastle

    It entertaining that the Left who was always going on about warmonger Trump and his deputy sheriff John Bolton is now all in for a war between the US and Turkey.

    It’s also entertaining that fascist Mr Erdogan calls his invasion “Peace Spring”. ‘War is peace’ indeed.

  56. So ‘totally destroy and obliterate’ means ‘waved them through’?

    Bruce, you are obviously young and naive, or have the mental capacity of a child, so let me lay it out for you in simple terms:

    Donald J. Trump lies, constantly. You can’t trust anything he says. His words mean nothing, only his actions matter.

    His actions in this case have been to give Erdogan a green light to murder every Kurd he can. His reaction to the commencement of Turkish bombing was not to destroy or obliterate anything, it was to babble that the Kurds didn’t help out at Normandy. Operationally, he’s not going to do a damn thing about Erdogan’s ethnic cleansing.

  57. notafan

    Why on earth would Pope Francis spend his whole life as a celibate cleric celebrating Holy Mass most days if he did not believe in the divinity of Christ

    don’t bother sharing the million and one time he does talk about the divinity of Christ

    Pope Francis should not give interviews to that old scallywag

    Did Pope Francis say that Jesus isn’t God? Don’t believe the report, Vatican says

  58. Andreas

    Bruce, you are obviously young and naive, or have the mental capacity of a child, so let me lay it out for you in simple terms:

    Says the dude who said we’d end up at war with Indonesia if we turned boats back, how did that turn out?

  59. Roger

    Kerry Schott warns Angus Taylor about the folly of keeping coal fired power plants open.

    Points to SA’s big battery (which can power how many homes for how many minutes?) as an intermediate solution until something better comes along.

    Says coal miners need to be re-trained.

    Just the sort of idiocy that got us into this mess in the first place.

  60. mh

    Vagicide in action in Qld.

    Female Premier, female Deputy Premier, and female Police Commissioner.

    Extinction Rebellion made it very public that this would be a week of action in Brisbane.

    Each day ER have brought the city to a standstill, and there are no consequences for them. Police “negotiate” with idiots chaining themselves to cars, and gluing themselves to streets. Now the ambulance services have to stay with protestors who have chained themselves to cars so that they can monitor their health, take blood pressure readings, etc.

    The cherry on top is the Opposition leader is female and equally useless.

  61. Bruce of Newcastle

    His actions in this case have been to give Erdogan a green light to murder every Kurd he can.

    Congress can declare war on Turkey anytime they like.
    So far they have not done so.

  62. Top Ender

    The Guardian gets all predictable:

    Military buff Tony Abbott is the wrong choice for the Australian War Memorial
    Paul Daley

    The war memorial’s council lacks a professional historian and critics say it’s like a hospital being run by homeopaths not doctors

    The appointment of the former prime minister Tony Abbott to the Australian War Memorial council has further distanced the popular institution from the public it supposedly serves and, critics insist, still leaves the board without the critical advice of a professional historian.

    Abbott, a military enthusiast who, sources say, as prime minister discussed the possibility of having as an aide de camp one of the country’s most prominent former soldiers, was appointed to the memorial’s governing council last week.

    While the veterans’ affairs minister, Darren Chester, lauded Abbott as bringing “dedication, passion and knowledge” to the council, critics – including one of the institution’s former historians – doubt the former PM will bring any insight to the job.

    Abbott was appointed after the recent death of long-serving memorial council member Les Carlyon, a former newspaper editor and the author of best-selling books including Gallipoli and The Great War.

    Peter Stanley, the winner of the 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History, says it has been too long since a professional historian was on the war memorial council and that Abbott is no substitute.

    “At times the memorial’s council has included historians of note – for example, Roger Joyce in the early 1980s and Geoffrey Blainey in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But it has had no comparable professional advice for many years,” says Stanley, a historian at the memorial for almost three decades until 2007.

    “The Memorial [council] lacking historians is like a hospital having no doctors on its board, or if it does, they are chiropractors or homeopaths – it lacks fundamental professional expertise at the highest level of policy making in the very field in which the institution operates.”

    Stanley is among many notable Australians, including historians, former memorial chief executives and writers, who have opposed the controversial plans – hatched by the current memorial director, Brendan Nelson – to spend $500m on expanding the institution so that it can showcase more military hardware and mount exhibitions on current conflicts.

    The memorial is a museum, archive and place of national remembrance whose charter stipulates it must help Australia “remember, interpret and understand” the country’s war experiences. Critics, including Heritage Guardians – a group opposed to the expansion – insist it is impossible for the memorial to adequately parse the myriad national impacts of conflicts to which Australia is still – or has recently been – committed to, a task that takes reflection and historical methodology over time.

    Nelson has also been consistently criticised for refusing to tell the story of the frontier wars between Indigenous people and soldiers, militias, pastoralists and native police, and for using exhibitions about “black diggers” who served empire as a fig leaf for this gap in the institution’s commemorative function.

    Abbott, they maintain, will probably stick with the policy status quo on the frontier wars – an issue the council has considered in recent years but determined not to change.

    The novelist and historian Peter Cochrane, author of Best We Forget – the War for White Australia 1914-1918, says: “Let us hope that Mr Abbott’s appointment will shift the focus of the war memorial just a little. Let us hope that he might endorse Geoffrey Blainey’s call for the memorial to address the frontier wars of the nineteenth century, the one hundred years and more of conflict across this land, here at home. Let us hope for a commitment to an informed public memory on this subject. Let us hope for this, even when all hope of something other than the continued sanctification of the Anzacs seems to be futile.”

    Abbott as prime minister was behind the $100m Monash interpretive centre on the European western front, a centrepiece of the $600m Australian commemoration of the centenary of the first world war. Critics – among them many prominent historians – lambasted the centre from inception. With visitor numbers well down on projections used to justify its creation, questions are now arising about whether it will be a museological white elephant.

    There is speculation Abbott may also be a candidate for the memorial directorship after the departure of Nelson.

    David Stephens, the editor of the Honest History website and a member of Heritage Guardians, wrote that Abbott was the wrong choice for the AWM council not just because his appointment would be seen as “jobs for the boys”.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    The memorial comprises eight current or former members of the Australian Defence Force, including the heads of the three services ex officio, an army reserve major general who is also RSL national president, two retired colonels, a retired wing commander, and a retired corporal and Victoria Cross winner, a business tycoon with a military history obsession (chairman Kerry Stokes), two businesswomen and a serviceman’s widow.

    “As a military history buff, Abbott would fit in well,” Stephens wrote.

    But he cautions: “The memorial in 2019 needs both a different style of person on its council – perhaps people who apply for positions in a public advertising round – and different attitudes – not boasting about how well Australians fight or repetitive commemoration of what Abbott once called ‘the glorious dead’ but evidence-based history of what war has done to Australia and Australians.”

  63. Sinclair Davidson

    Test 3.

    You realise that now you’ve got posting rights that you can go in an d approve your own comments?

  64. Delcon

    cohenite
    #3180141, posted on October 10, 2019 at 11:02 am

    All true. The point I was getting to is Trump not only has to deal with shit-stains in the msm, the demorats and assorted loons but RINOs on his own side and neocons who will use this to beat Trump up. Every rational argument put forward by Trump will be drowned by the hysteria.

    Asking for a friend, which of the above categories do I fall into?
    A huuuuge fan of his until a couple-or-so days ago, I believe Trump was an idiot to evacuate his troops from Northern Syria (almost certainly, at the request of Erdogan).
    So, again, which of the above categories, bolded for convenience, do I fall into, cohenite?

  65. Top Ender

    The Guardian gets all predictable:

    Military buff Tony Abbott is the wrong choice for the Australian War Memorial
    Paul Daley

    The war memorial’s council lacks a professional historian and critics say it’s like a hospital being run by homeopaths not doctors

    The appointment of the former prime minister Tony Abbott to the Australian War Memorial council has further distanced the popular institution from the public it supposedly serves and, critics insist, still leaves the board without the critical advice of a professional historian.

    Abbott, a military enthusiast who, sources say, as prime minister discussed the possibility of having as an aide de camp one of the country’s most prominent former soldiers, was appointed to the memorial’s governing council last week.

    While the veterans’ affairs minister, Darren Chester, lauded Abbott as bringing “dedication, passion and knowledge” to the council, critics – including one of the institution’s former historians – doubt the former PM will bring any insight to the job.

    Abbott was appointed after the recent death of long-serving memorial council member Les Carlyon, a former newspaper editor and the author of best-selling books including Gallipoli and The Great War.

    Peter Stanley, the winner of the 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History, says it has been too long since a professional historian was on the war memorial council and that Abbott is no substitute.

    “At times the memorial’s council has included historians of note – for example, Roger Joyce in the early 1980s and Geoffrey Blainey in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But it has had no comparable professional advice for many years,” says Stanley, a historian at the memorial for almost three decades until 2007.

    “The Memorial [council] lacking historians is like a hospital having no doctors on its board, or if it does, they are chiropractors or homeopaths – it lacks fundamental professional expertise at the highest level of policy making in the very field in which the institution operates.”

    Stanley is among many notable Australians, including historians, former memorial chief executives and writers, who have opposed the controversial plans – hatched by the current memorial director, Brendan Nelson – to spend $500m on expanding the institution so that it can showcase more military hardware and mount exhibitions on current conflicts.

    The memorial is a museum, archive and place of national remembrance whose charter stipulates it must help Australia “remember, interpret and understand” the country’s war experiences. Critics, including Heritage Guardians – a group opposed to the expansion – insist it is impossible for the memorial to adequately parse the myriad national impacts of conflicts to which Australia is still – or has recently been – committed to, a task that takes reflection and historical methodology over time.

    Nelson has also been consistently criticised for refusing to tell the story of the frontier wars between Indigenous people and soldiers, militias, pastoralists and native police, and for using exhibitions about “black diggers” who served empire as a fig leaf for this gap in the institution’s commemorative function.

    Abbott, they maintain, will probably stick with the policy status quo on the frontier wars – an issue the council has considered in recent years but determined not to change.

    The novelist and historian Peter Cochrane, author of Best We Forget – the War for White Australia 1914-1918, says: “Let us hope that Mr Abbott’s appointment will shift the focus of the war memorial just a little. Let us hope that he might endorse Geoffrey Blainey’s call for the memorial to address the frontier wars of the nineteenth century, the one hundred years and more of conflict across this land, here at home. Let us hope for a commitment to an informed public memory on this subject. Let us hope for this, even when all hope of something other than the continued sanctification of the Anzacs seems to be futile.”

    Abbott as prime minister was behind the $100m Monash interpretive centre on the European western front, a centrepiece of the $600m Australian commemoration of the centenary of the first world war. Critics – among them many prominent historians – lambasted the centre from inception. With visitor numbers well down on projections used to justify its creation, questions are now arising about whether it will be a museological white elephant.

    There is speculation Abbott may also be a candidate for the memorial directorship after the departure of Nelson.

    David Stephens, the editor of the Honest History website and a member of Heritage Guardians, wrote that Abbott was the wrong choice for the AWM council not just because his appointment would be seen as “jobs for the boys”.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    The memorial comprises eight current or former members of the Australian Defence Force, including the heads of the three services ex officio, an army reserve major general who is also RSL national president, two retired colonels, a retired wing commander, and a retired corporal and Victoria Cross winner, a business tycoon with a military history obsession (chairman Kerry Stokes), two businesswomen and a serviceman’s widow.

    “As a military history buff, Abbott would fit in well,” Stephens wrote.

    But he cautions: “The memorial in 2019 needs both a different style of person on its council – perhaps people who apply for positions in a public advertising round – and different attitudes – not boasting about how well Australians fight or repetitive commemoration of what Abbott once called ‘the glorious dead’ but evidence-based history of what war has done to Australia and Australians.”

  66. Roger

    What are you doing here?

    Iampeter claims he can’t get an intelligent discussion here as there’s too much ad hom abuse.

    When I engage with him, politely pointing out an error he made, what does he resort too?

    Ad hom abuse!

    What he’s doing here is trolling.

  67. Top Ender

    The Guardian gets all predictable:

    Military buff Tony Abbott is the wrong choice for the Australian War Memorial
    Paul Daley

    The war memorial’s council lacks a professional historian and critics say it’s like a hospital being run by homeopaths not doctors

    The appointment of the former prime minister Tony Abbott to the Australian War Memorial council has further distanced the popular institution from the public it supposedly serves and, critics insist, still leaves the board without the critical advice of a professional historian.

    Abbott, a military enthusiast who, sources say, as prime minister discussed the possibility of having as an aide de camp one of the country’s most prominent former soldiers, was appointed to the memorial’s governing council last week.

    While the veterans’ affairs minister, Darren Chester, lauded Abbott as bringing “dedication, passion and knowledge” to the council, critics – including one of the institution’s former historians – doubt the former PM will bring any insight to the job.

    Abbott was appointed after the recent death of long-serving memorial council member Les Carlyon, a former newspaper editor and the author of best-selling books including Gallipoli and The Great War.

    Peter Stanley, the winner of the 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History, says it has been too long since a professional historian was on the war memorial council and that Abbott is no substitute.

    “At times the memorial’s council has included historians of note – for example, Roger Joyce in the early 1980s and Geoffrey Blainey in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But it has had no comparable professional advice for many years,” says Stanley, a historian at the memorial for almost three decades until 2007.

    “The Memorial [council] lacking historians is like a hospital having no doctors on its board, or if it does, they are chiropractors or homeopaths – it lacks fundamental professional expertise at the highest level of policy making in the very field in which the institution operates.”

    Stanley is among many notable Australians, including historians, former memorial chief executives and writers, who have opposed the controversial plans – hatched by the current memorial director, Brendan Nelson – to spend $500m on expanding the institution so that it can showcase more military hardware and mount exhibitions on current conflicts.

    The memorial is a museum, archive and place of national remembrance whose charter stipulates it must help Australia “remember, interpret and understand” the country’s war experiences. Critics, including Heritage Guardians – a group opposed to the expansion – insist it is impossible for the memorial to adequately parse the myriad national impacts of conflicts to which Australia is still – or has recently been – committed to, a task that takes reflection and historical methodology over time.

    Nelson has also been consistently criticised for refusing to tell the story of the frontier wars between Indigenous people and soldiers, militias, pastoralists and native police, and for using exhibitions about “black diggers” who served empire as a fig leaf for this gap in the institution’s commemorative function.

    Abbott, they maintain, will probably stick with the policy status quo on the frontier wars – an issue the council has considered in recent years but determined not to change.

    The novelist and historian Peter Cochrane, author of Best We Forget – the War for White Australia 1914-1918, says: “Let us hope that Mr Abbott’s appointment will shift the focus of the war memorial just a little. Let us hope that he might endorse Geoffrey Blainey’s call for the memorial to address the frontier wars of the nineteenth century, the one hundred years and more of conflict across this land, here at home. Let us hope for a commitment to an informed public memory on this subject. Let us hope for this, even when all hope of something other than the continued sanctification of the Anzacs seems to be futile.”

    Abbott as prime minister was behind the $100m Monash interpretive centre on the European western front, a centrepiece of the $600m Australian commemoration of the centenary of the first world war. Critics – among them many prominent historians – lambasted the centre from inception. With visitor numbers well down on projections used to justify its creation, questions are now arising about whether it will be a museological white elephant.

    There is speculation Abbott may also be a candidate for the memorial directorship after the departure of Nelson.

    David Stephens, the editor of the Honest History website and a member of Heritage Guardians, wrote that Abbott was the wrong choice for the AWM council not just because his appointment would be seen as “jobs for the boys”.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    The memorial comprises eight current or former members of the Australian Defence Force, including the heads of the three services ex officio, an army reserve major general who is also RSL national president, two retired colonels, a retired wing commander, and a retired corporal and Victoria Cross winner, a business tycoon with a military history obsession (chairman Kerry Stokes), two businesswomen and a serviceman’s widow.

    “As a military history buff, Abbott would fit in well,” Stephens wrote.

    But he cautions: “The memorial in 2019 needs both a different style of person on its council – perhaps people who apply for positions in a public advertising round – and different attitudes – not boasting about how well Australians fight or repetitive commemoration of what Abbott once called ‘the glorious dead’ but evidence-based history of what war has done to Australia and Australians.”

  68. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘A green light to murder every Kurd he can’

    And?

  69. Top Ender

    The Guardian gets all predictable:

    Military buff Tony Abbott is the wrong choice for the Australian War Memorial
    Paul Daley

    The war memorial’s council lacks a professional historian and critics say it’s like a hospital being run by homeopaths not doctors

    The appointment of the former prime minister Tony Abbott to the Australian War Memorial council has further distanced the popular institution from the public it supposedly serves and, critics insist, still leaves the board without the critical advice of a professional historian.

    Abbott, a military enthusiast who, sources say, as prime minister discussed the possibility of having as an aide de camp one of the country’s most prominent former soldiers, was appointed to the memorial’s governing council last week.

    While the veterans’ affairs minister, Darren Chester, lauded Abbott as bringing “dedication, passion and knowledge” to the council, critics – including one of the institution’s former historians – doubt the former PM will bring any insight to the job.

    Abbott was appointed after the recent death of long-serving memorial council member Les Carlyon, a former newspaper editor and the author of best-selling books including Gallipoli and The Great War.

    Peter Stanley, the winner of the 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History, says it has been too long since a professional historian was on the war memorial council and that Abbott is no substitute.

    “At times the memorial’s council has included historians of note – for example, Roger Joyce in the early 1980s and Geoffrey Blainey in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But it has had no comparable professional advice for many years,” says Stanley, a historian at the memorial for almost three decades until 2007.

    “The Memorial [council] lacking historians is like a hospital having no doctors on its board, or if it does, they are chiropractors or homeopaths – it lacks fundamental professional expertise at the highest level of policy making in the very field in which the institution operates.”

    Stanley is among many notable Australians, including historians, former memorial chief executives and writers, who have opposed the controversial plans – hatched by the current memorial director, Brendan Nelson – to spend $500m on expanding the institution so that it can showcase more military hardware and mount exhibitions on current conflicts.

    The memorial is a museum, archive and place of national remembrance whose charter stipulates it must help Australia “remember, interpret and understand” the country’s war experiences. Critics, including Heritage Guardians – a group opposed to the expansion – insist it is impossible for the memorial to adequately parse the myriad national impacts of conflicts to which Australia is still – or has recently been – committed to, a task that takes reflection and historical methodology over time.

    Nelson has also been consistently criticised for refusing to tell the story of the frontier wars between Indigenous people and soldiers, militias, pastoralists and native police, and for using exhibitions about “black diggers” who served empire as a fig leaf for this gap in the institution’s commemorative function.

    Abbott, they maintain, will probably stick with the policy status quo on the frontier wars – an issue the council has considered in recent years but determined not to change.

    The novelist and historian Peter Cochrane, author of Best We Forget – the War for White Australia 1914-1918, says: “Let us hope that Mr Abbott’s appointment will shift the focus of the war memorial just a little. Let us hope that he might endorse Geoffrey Blainey’s call for the memorial to address the frontier wars of the nineteenth century, the one hundred years and more of conflict across this land, here at home. Let us hope for a commitment to an informed public memory on this subject. Let us hope for this, even when all hope of something other than the continued sanctification of the Anzacs seems to be futile.”

    Abbott as prime minister was behind the $100m Monash interpretive centre on the European western front, a centrepiece of the $600m Australian commemoration of the centenary of the first world war. Critics – among them many prominent historians – lambasted the centre from inception. With visitor numbers well down on projections used to justify its creation, questions are now arising about whether it will be a museological white elephant.

    There is speculation Abbott may also be a candidate for the memorial directorship after the departure of Nelson.

    David Stephens, the editor of the Honest History website and a member of Heritage Guardians, wrote that Abbott was the wrong choice for the AWM council not just because his appointment would be seen as “jobs for the boys”.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    The memorial comprises eight current or former members of the Australian Defence Force, including the heads of the three services ex officio, an army reserve major general who is also RSL national president, two retired colonels, a retired wing commander, and a retired corporal and Victoria Cross winner, a business tycoon with a military history obsession (chairman Kerry Stokes), two businesswomen and a serviceman’s widow.

    “As a military history buff, Abbott would fit in well,” Stephens wrote.

    But he cautions: “The memorial in 2019 needs both a different style of person on its council – perhaps people who apply for positions in a public advertising round – and different attitudes – not boasting about how well Australians fight or repetitive commemoration of what Abbott once called ‘the glorious dead’ but evidence-based history of what war has done to Australia and Australians.”

  70. struth

    Those terrible yanks thinking they’re the world’s police, says the left.
    But but but but……the Kurds.
    Whatever Trump is doing the hypocritical left’s reaction is purely expected.
    Tribalism beats ideology and integrity because their only real ideology is tribal power at all costs.
    Lies mean nothing.

  71. Top Ender

    The Guardian gets all predictable:

    Military buff Tony Abbott is the wrong choice for the Australian War Memorial
    Paul Daley

    The war memorial’s council lacks a professional historian and critics say it’s like a hospital being run by homeopaths not doctors

    The appointment of the former prime minister Tony Abbott to the Australian War Memorial council has further distanced the popular institution from the public it supposedly serves and, critics insist, still leaves the board without the critical advice of a professional historian.

    Abbott, a military enthusiast who, sources say, as prime minister discussed the possibility of having as an aide de camp one of the country’s most prominent former soldiers, was appointed to the memorial’s governing council last week.

    While the veterans’ affairs minister, Darren Chester, lauded Abbott as bringing “dedication, passion and knowledge” to the council, critics – including one of the institution’s former historians – doubt the former PM will bring any insight to the job.

    Abbott was appointed after the recent death of long-serving memorial council member Les Carlyon, a former newspaper editor and the author of best-selling books including Gallipoli and The Great War.

    Peter Stanley, the winner of the 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History, says it has been too long since a professional historian was on the war memorial council and that Abbott is no substitute.

    “At times the memorial’s council has included historians of note – for example, Roger Joyce in the early 1980s and Geoffrey Blainey in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But it has had no comparable professional advice for many years,” says Stanley, a historian at the memorial for almost three decades until 2007.

    “The Memorial [council] lacking historians is like a hospital having no doctors on its board, or if it does, they are chiropractors or homeopaths – it lacks fundamental professional expertise at the highest level of policy making in the very field in which the institution operates.”

    Stanley is among many notable Australians, including historians, former memorial chief executives and writers, who have opposed the controversial plans – hatched by the current memorial director, Brendan Nelson – to spend $500m on expanding the institution so that it can showcase more military hardware and mount exhibitions on current conflicts.

    The memorial is a museum, archive and place of national remembrance whose charter stipulates it must help Australia “remember, interpret and understand” the country’s war experiences. Critics, including Heritage Guardians – a group opposed to the expansion – insist it is impossible for the memorial to adequately parse the myriad national impacts of conflicts to which Australia is still – or has recently been – committed to, a task that takes reflection and historical methodology over time.

    Nelson has also been consistently criticised for refusing to tell the story of the frontier wars between Indigenous people and soldiers, militias, pastoralists and native police, and for using exhibitions about “black diggers” who served empire as a fig leaf for this gap in the institution’s commemorative function.

    Abbott, they maintain, will probably stick with the policy status quo on the frontier wars – an issue the council has considered in recent years but determined not to change.

    The novelist and historian Peter Cochrane, author of Best We Forget – the War for White Australia 1914-1918, says: “Let us hope that Mr Abbott’s appointment will shift the focus of the war memorial just a little. Let us hope that he might endorse Geoffrey Blainey’s call for the memorial to address the frontier wars of the nineteenth century, the one hundred years and more of conflict across this land, here at home. Let us hope for a commitment to an informed public memory on this subject. Let us hope for this, even when all hope of something other than the continued sanctification of the Anzacs seems to be futile.”

    Abbott as prime minister was behind the $100m Monash interpretive centre on the European western front, a centrepiece of the $600m Australian commemoration of the centenary of the first world war. Critics – among them many prominent historians – lambasted the centre from inception. With visitor numbers well down on projections used to justify its creation, questions are now arising about whether it will be a museological white elephant.

    There is speculation Abbott may also be a candidate for the memorial directorship after the departure of Nelson.

    David Stephens, the editor of the Honest History website and a member of Heritage Guardians, wrote that Abbott was the wrong choice for the AWM council not just because his appointment would be seen as “jobs for the boys”.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    The memorial comprises eight current or former members of the Australian Defence Force, including the heads of the three services ex officio, an army reserve major general who is also RSL national president, two retired colonels, a retired wing commander, and a retired corporal and Victoria Cross winner, a business tycoon with a military history obsession (chairman Kerry Stokes), two businesswomen and a serviceman’s widow.

    “As a military history buff, Abbott would fit in well,” Stephens wrote.

    But he cautions: “The memorial in 2019 needs both a different style of person on its council – perhaps people who apply for positions in a public advertising round – and different attitudes – not boasting about how well Australians fight or repetitive commemoration of what Abbott once called ‘the glorious dead’ but evidence-based history of what war has done to Australia and Australians.”

  72. Congress can declare war on Turkey anytime they like.
    So far they have not done so.

    This is nothing to do with Congress, Bruce. Trump has moved US troops from one part of Syria to another, to allow Turkey a free AO for its bombers to blow things up. This is not about isolationism, as he’s not bringing troops home. He’s exchanging favours with foreign leaders to benefit his business interests. It’s corruption, nothing more complex than that.

  73. BrettW

    Drove past Brisbane CBD, via Riverside, around 0930.

    Very long line of buses stuck, obviously due to the protests.

    Seems full time protester Serge involved again after police requested jail time last appearance. Previously a condition of his bail was not to go into CBD which he broke within couple of days and no consequence from magistrate who happens to be wife of Federal Labor MP Perret. This time he has chained himself to a car outside main Govt building.

    Time for the Courier Mail to name and provide backgrounds and photos of the magistrates involved. They are now basically permitting the protests by their failure to act.

  74. Roger

    I believe Trump was an idiot to evacuate his troops from Northern Syria

    He’s an idiot for following through on a campaign promise which the American people were clamouring for?

    Meanwhile, it’s illuminating to see the Prog-Left press, who for decades have consistently damned US foreign military interventions, now damning Trump for withdrawing his troops.

  75. Top Ender

    The Guardian gets all predictable:

    Military buff Tony Abbott is the wrong choice for the Australian War Memorial
    Paul Daley

    The war memorial’s council lacks a professional historian and critics say it’s like a hospital being run by homeopaths not doctors

    The appointment of the former prime minister Tony Abbott to the Australian War Memorial council has further distanced the popular institution from the public it supposedly serves and, critics insist, still leaves the board without the critical advice of a professional historian.

    Abbott, a military enthusiast who, sources say, as prime minister discussed the possibility of having as an aide de camp one of the country’s most prominent former soldiers, was appointed to the memorial’s governing council last week.

    While the veterans’ affairs minister, Darren Chester, lauded Abbott as bringing “dedication, passion and knowledge” to the council, critics – including one of the institution’s former historians – doubt the former PM will bring any insight to the job.

    Abbott was appointed after the recent death of long-serving memorial council member Les Carlyon, a former newspaper editor and the author of best-selling books including Gallipoli and The Great War.

    Peter Stanley, the winner of the 2011 Prime Minister’s Prize for Australian History, says it has been too long since a professional historian was on the war memorial council and that Abbott is no substitute.

    “At times the memorial’s council has included historians of note – for example, Roger Joyce in the early 1980s and Geoffrey Blainey in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But it has had no comparable professional advice for many years,” says Stanley, a historian at the memorial for almost three decades until 2007.

    “The Memorial [council] lacking historians is like a hospital having no doctors on its board, or if it does, they are chiropractors or homeopaths – it lacks fundamental professional expertise at the highest level of policy making in the very field in which the institution operates.”

    Stanley is among many notable Australians, including historians, former memorial chief executives and writers, who have opposed the controversial plans – hatched by the current memorial director, Brendan Nelson – to spend $500m on expanding the institution so that it can showcase more military hardware and mount exhibitions on current conflicts.

    The memorial is a museum, archive and place of national remembrance whose charter stipulates it must help Australia “remember, interpret and understand” the country’s war experiences. Critics, including Heritage Guardians – a group opposed to the expansion – insist it is impossible for the memorial to adequately parse the myriad national impacts of conflicts to which Australia is still – or has recently been – committed to, a task that takes reflection and historical methodology over time.

    Nelson has also been consistently criticised for refusing to tell the story of the frontier wars between Indigenous people and soldiers, militias, pastoralists and native police, and for using exhibitions about “black diggers” who served empire as a fig leaf for this gap in the institution’s commemorative function.

    Abbott, they maintain, will probably stick with the policy status quo on the frontier wars – an issue the council has considered in recent years but determined not to change.

    The novelist and historian Peter Cochrane, author of Best We Forget – the War for White Australia 1914-1918, says: “Let us hope that Mr Abbott’s appointment will shift the focus of the war memorial just a little. Let us hope that he might endorse Geoffrey Blainey’s call for the memorial to address the frontier wars of the nineteenth century, the one hundred years and more of conflict across this land, here at home. Let us hope for a commitment to an informed public memory on this subject. Let us hope for this, even when all hope of something other than the continued sanctification of the Anzacs seems to be futile.”

    Abbott as prime minister was behind the $100m Monash interpretive centre on the European western front, a centrepiece of the $600m Australian commemoration of the centenary of the first world war. Critics – among them many prominent historians – lambasted the centre from inception. With visitor numbers well down on projections used to justify its creation, questions are now arising about whether it will be a museological white elephant.

    There is speculation Abbott may also be a candidate for the memorial directorship after the departure of Nelson.

    David Stephens, the editor of the Honest History website and a member of Heritage Guardians, wrote that Abbott was the wrong choice for the AWM council not just because his appointment would be seen as “jobs for the boys”.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    The memorial comprises eight current or former members of the Australian Defence Force, including the heads of the three services ex officio, an army reserve major general who is also RSL national president, two retired colonels, a retired wing commander, and a retired corporal and Victoria Cross winner, a business tycoon with a military history obsession (chairman Kerry Stokes), two businesswomen and a serviceman’s widow.

    “As a military history buff, Abbott would fit in well,” Stephens wrote.

    But he cautions: “The memorial in 2019 needs both a different style of person on its council – perhaps people who apply for positions in a public advertising round – and different attitudes – not boasting about how well Australians fight or repetitive commemoration of what Abbott once called ‘the glorious dead’ but evidence-based history of what war has done to Australia and Australians.”

  76. Roger

    Drove past Brisbane CBD, via Riverside, around 0930.

    Very long line of buses stuck, obviously due to the protests.

    Firms affected should sue ER for losses.

  77. Top Ender

    The Guardian is putting the boot into Tony Abbott’s appointment at the War Memorial Board.

    The spaminator won’t let me post the article for some reason, but is not putting it into moderation.

    Oh well.

    Link

  78. calli

    But…but…

    The OrangeOne is a Warmonger! With extra War!

    Except when he isn’t.

  79. Iampeter

    When I engage with him, politely pointing out an error he made, what does he resort too?

    Ad hom abuse!

    What he’s doing here is trolling.

    What you did was use words you don’t understand.
    I explained how to use them correctly and how they go together properly.
    That is not ad hominem.
    You ignored what was explained to you and doubled down.
    You also don’t seem to have an issue with anyone’s ad hominem either, so you’re ignorant AND dishonest.
    Keep up the good work.

  80. will

    A huuuuge fan of his until a couple-or-so days ago, I believe Trump was an idiot to evacuate his troops from Northern Syria (almost certainly, at the request of Erdogan).

    why should the US expend blood and treasure on another ME sandpit with endless war? let the Syrians and Turkey and Iran and Kurds (who engage in terrorism in Turkey) sort it out.

  81. bespoke

    You realise that now you’ve got posting rights that you can go in an d approve your own comments?

    I noticed that. What did he give? and did you take willingly? 😎

  82. Except when he isn’t.

    He just started a new war.

  83. stackja

    Qld voters getting value from ALP with protesters ruling the streets.

  84. calli

    So now we know it’s a Fully Endorsed and Registered Talking Point.

    “More important are the attitudes Abbott would bring to the council. He is also a leading member of the Anzackery ‘club’, spruiking an overblown, sentimental version of the Anzac legend.”

    Curious, that use of the word “legend”. I could take him seriously if he had said “history”. Seems the skirmish is over each side’s variety of b/s.

  85. Knuckle Dragger

    More grandiloquence from Iamwordsalad.

    You’re wrong. Come back after you’ve had a decent think.

  86. mh

    He’s exchanging favours with foreign leaders to benefit his business interests. It’s corruption, nothing more complex than that.

    Monty, your heart disease will get worse if you keep up this bitterness. Let it go. Trump won.

  87. Bruce of Newcastle

    This is nothing to do with Congress, Bruce.

    M0nty – It has everything to do with Congress.
    Congress passed and ratified the NATO treaty.
    US and Turkey are allies under that treaty.
    It is illegal for Trump to take an action as military leader in breach of that law.
    Therefore he cannot do anything unless and until Congress amends the law.
    Maybe you should ring up Nancy and ask her to do this.

  88. Nick

    Obama brang troops home, yay. Trump is a warmonger. Oh wait..

  89. “stackja
    #3180188, posted on October 10, 2019 at 11:44 am
    Qld voters getting value from ALP with protesters ruling the streets.”

    And what’s the bet that QLD voters will, once again, vote for the ALP next year. You reap what you sow.

  90. Iampeter

    So politics according to Iamgod, means no tolerance of opposing views, no discussion, disagree with Iamgod and no one gets politics!

    That seems to be the position of most people here, not mine.
    Here’s a suggestion: whatever you’re going to write to describe me, stop and think. It will almost certainly be a description of anyone except me.

    Or more briefly: all you do is scream profanities and project.
    I think just like with dover, I’m done indulging your crazy.

  91. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Fraid not, Munter.

    The Kurds started this one by demanding their own substantial slab of another country. Turkey said no, so the Kurds started blowing it up. And hasn’t stopped since.

  92. Bulldust, Bruce. Trump didn’t have to take any action, illegal or otherwise. All he had to do was refuse when Erdogan asked him to move those US troops who were embedded with the Kurds in northern Syria. Refusing that request was well within his rights.

    You are trying to bush-lawyer your way out of this, but it’s not going to fly.

  93. will

    Erdogan a green light to murder every Kurd he can

    and the window licker thinks this is Trumps fault, not Erdogan.

    Maybe the EU or UN (loved by Globalists everywhere) can help?

  94. Roger

    Quinnipiac poll: Warren 29, Biden 26

  95. Iampeter

    You’re wrong. Come back after you’ve had a decent think.

    Ah, the classic “your wrong!” response.
    This is struth-level intellect.

    I am defeat now!

  96. lotocoti

    He’s exchanging favours with foreign leaders to benefit his business interests. It’s corruption, nothing more complex than that.

    con•vo•lut•ed (ˈkɒn vəˌlu tɪd)
    adj.
    1. twisted; coiled.
    2. complicated; intricately involved.

  97. stackja

    AWM remembers the ANZAC service.
    This to some is wrong?
    To me the ignorance of history by critics is instructive.

  98. Knuckle Dragger

    Yes, Iampudenda. Defeat.

    Contrails of failure criscross the sky in your world.

    Come back later. The Cat’s a broad church.

  99. Iampeter

    He’s exchanging favours with foreign leaders to benefit his business interests. It’s corruption, nothing more complex than that.

    He’s not a democrat therefore you’re wrong!
    It’s 4billionD chess to track down Jeffry Epstein.
    You’re just not as informed as catallaxy posters.

  100. Bruce of Newcastle

    All he had to do was refuse when Erdogan asked him to move those US troops who were embedded with the Kurds in northern Syria.

    M0nty – It would be a breach of the treaty to place US troops in a position where conflict with Turkey would be likely to take place, which sure as eggs would be the case if Turkish troops attacked the Kurdish units the US forces were embedded with. Therefore Trump de-embedded them.

    If as a result of Trump’s actions the alliance between Turkey and the US is breached then Trump could be legally impeached.

    Therefore he can not do it. Congress must do it. That they refuse to means they are responsible.

    As always, M0nty, you are demonstrating that the Left, whom you seem to represent, are lawless unless it suits them to be otherwise.

  101. Roger

    All -isms end in schisms:

    Labor having a public stoush over climate policy.

    Qlders reportedly backing Fitzgibbon.

    Butler, a key Albanese backer, insisting they stay the Paris course.

    This is killing Labor.

  102. Top Ender

    Nelson Kidd-Players…any reports that the gene for cane toads has been enquired of by certain demographics?

    Yes indeed.

    2020 will see a National Pride Week for Rainbow Cane Toads.

    Some sort of parade/Mardi Gras.

    A grant of $1m has been announced by the Victorian government.

    (No cane toads there but apparently some cold-weather Pride Victoria Toads (PVTs) will be bred and released.)

    In the name of Inclusion and Diversity.

    You know it makes sense.

  103. jupes

    It is no surprise that the “confronting” interview that Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti gave to the Herald Sun has been thrown down the memory hole.

    The fact that AMT has belled the cat on the true nature Aboriginal culture is a huge embarrassment to the AFL and the media elite in this country. There is no mention of it on the ABC, the AFL website or even the Essendon website (which actually has a link to the story but the story has been deep-sixed).

    This is a story that highlights child neglect in Aboriginal communities and has a white person as the hero. Not the story they want told to the brain-washed masses.

  104. Iampeter

    Labor having a public stoush over climate policy.

    If only conservatives had a stoush about climate policy.
    Think of all the leftist policies we may have avoided.
    Oh well…labor bad, environmentalist-pushing leftist conservatives good!

  105. Roger

    It is no surprise that the “confronting” interview that Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti gave to the Herald Sun has been thrown down the memory hole.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s being counselled by the AFL on their diversity and inclusivity policies.

    If so, the poor chap needs our prayers.

  106. jupes

    Speaking of the Turkish invasion:

    British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said on Wednesday …”This risks destabilising the region …”

    Lol.

  107. min

    Kurdistan was a country whose borders were rearranged by Winston Churchill so they have been trying to regain territory . Kurds in Iraq have done very well establishing themselves after the war there however I am not sure how they stand with the PKK.

  108. Top Ender

    jupes, thanks for the interview with Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti.

    Not very interested in footy, but have been to the Tiwis a lot so found it interesting.

    Hope he does well.

  109. Bruce of Newcastle

    If only conservatives had a stoush about climate policy.

    We are. What do you think One Nation, ALA, Australian Conservatives, SFF and other conservative parties are? They all have sensible climate policies, ie based on real climate science not the fraudulent stuff the ALP and Libs promulgate.

    Joel who is my local MP had a scare when he nearly lost his comfy seat to One Nation in the election – because of ALP climate policy in opposition to coal, which is Hunter lifeblood. Which is why Joel is pushing a slightly less nutty climate line today in the media.

  110. min

    Notafan do you mean to say my Italian Professor taught me incorrect history Galileo was put under house arrest for following Erasmus and his own studies that the earth not the centre of the universe. Bruno ditto.

  111. Dr Faustus

    And what’s the bet that QLD voters will, once again, vote for the ALP next year. You reap what you sow.

    Fair chance.

    Queensland goes through phases where there is nobody at home in the Opposition. Sadly, even though Deb Frecklington is a decent person, we are deep into an LNP Irrelevance cycle.

    Doesn’t help that when the Queensland media isn’t running World’s-32nd-Biggest-Pumpkin stories, it is largely ALP-supporting.

  112. jupes

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s being counselled by the AFL on their diversity and inclusivity policies.

    I reckon they will put pressure on him during the Indigenous round next year to genuflect in some way to Aboriginal culture. If they do, they are evil pricks because he has stated that “Indigenous round is hard”. He doesn’t like to remember what it was like growing up on the Tiwi Islands.

  113. Roger

    We are. What do you think One Nation, ALA, Australian Conservatives, SFF and other conservative parties are?

    Stand by for the inane response…

  114. Geriatric Mayfly

    (No cane toads there but apparently some cold-weather Pride Victoria Toads (PVTs) will be bred and released.)

    Often dig up cold climate toads in the garden. Must remember to collect and courier a crop directly to the Hunchback and another to his personal masseuse Ross Ward.

  115. Mother Lode

    Cassie, how did you come to the conclusion he was extreme right wing?

    ‘Tis a point.

    The shimmering elusive fantasms in OmPoida’s head notwithstanding, the right accommodates conservatives and libertarians. So what is ‘far right’? Extremely conservative? Extremely libertarian? Extremely something else?

    The left thinks in terms of grand unified theories. They might squabble, and will each often escort the other down to the coal cellar and blow their brains out under a single buzzing bulb, but their uniformity is far stronger than their differences. All their different guises over the past century keep coming back to the same brutal savage goal.

    So, with regards to this German (or any number of others who have been labelled ‘Far Right’, or ‘Extreme Right’, or whatever) the question is, what opinions of beliefs which prevail on the political right has he taken to an extreme that has made him this killer?

    Or, simpler still, what are the beliefs the gunman shares with other people who are on the right?

    ‘Right’ is just the what leftists call anyone who is not like them. Conservatives, I-slamo-fascists, libertarians, Nayzees – all conflated. And why not. It is not as if the left has any intention of understanding them. They just want to subjugate them all.

  116. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    If as a result of Trump’s actions the alliance between Turkey and the US is breached then Trump could be legally impeached.

    As usual your assertions are corect, Bruce. However, you are missing the big picture. Trump is not withdrawing any troops from Syria, he’s consolidating them.

    If Erdogan had any real interest in crushing the Kurds he could have initiated action any time in the last five years as President, and probably could have organised it in the ten years prior to that when he was PM. Especially during the Obama years.

    What we are witnessing is the opening ambit in a far bigger game. If you play chess consider it pawn to king four. Trump has responded with the King’s Indian defence.

    We live in interesting times.

  117. Roger

    An inanity cloaked in impenetrable prose trying to appear recondite…

  118. Mother Lode

    ignorance is strength eh M0nty?

    Then Monty must be very strong.

  119. mh

    Queensland goes through phases where there is nobody at home in the Opposition. Sadly, even though Deb Frecklington is a decent person, we are deep into an LNP Irrelevance cycle.

    Fact Check ➡️ True

  120. Knuckle Dragger

    Roger!

    I was saving that word for later!

  121. struth

    Iampoda’s responses.

    Nah, that’s not me that’s yous.
    Yous are dumb, I’m rooly smart, just ask me.

    Sort of reminds me of going into an abo cultural centre, where they make grand statements about sharing their culture, knowledge and wisdom, and “teaching us” yet, actually teach nothing and have nothing but fairy tales on offer,

  122. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    Fact Check ➡️ True

    Doubleplus true.

    Queensland opposition? What Queensland opposition?
    You mean we have an opposition? Why wasn’t I told?

  123. cohenite

    Donald J. Trump lies, constantly. You can’t trust anything he says. His words mean nothing, only his actions matter.

    Yes, Trump is the perfect politician.

    Other than that you’re still a sick little puppy.

  124. lotocoti

    Then Monty must be very strong.

    You can understand the attraction of socialism for those whose needs are many and abilities few.

  125. cohenite

    So, again, which of the above categories, bolded for convenience, do I fall into, cohenite?

    Maybe you’re in transition.

  126. Top Ender

    Knuckles, stop calling me Roger.

    Darling is OK.

  127. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    You can understand the attraction of socialism for those whose needs are many and abilities few.

    Pay that one, lotocoti.

  128. Atoms for Peace

    The Nobel Peace prize is akin to a participation certificate . No one really cares about it anymore methinks..

  129. struth

    From the attitude toward Christianity and his delusion on Climate Change, his ignorance of history, and the firm belief in government control of freedoms, I now suspect a fourth rate left wing academic troll who considers himself first rate.
    The problem with lefties is that without force they have to argue the point, and that always ends in disaster for them , as we see with Numbers, Monty and Iamasmartypantsundercoversocialist

  130. Roger

    Roger! I was saving that word for later!

    KD, a man with your expressive style will surely light upon an alternative without too much effort.

    Without the need to resort to Roget’s, even!

    🙂

  131. Knuckle Dragger

    McDonald-Tipingwuti, along with Polly Farmer should be lauded as the greatest indig footballers of all time.

    The AFL should make a public statement TODAY congratulating him on his honesty, and on the journey he’s endured to get to where he is.

    But they won’t.

    Because narrative.

  132. Bear Necessities

    I don’t know why the media is getting upset about Extinction Rebellion now. When you run front pages, include articles on climate alarmism then what do you expect? Some of the unstable population out there will believe it and act accordingly.

  133. struth

    You can understand the attraction of socialism for those whose wants are many and abilities few.

    FIFY.

  134. pete m

    m0nty thinks Trump started a new war in the middle east.

    the people living there have been at war for centuries

    but it is all new all trump’s fault

    Obama did not want to go into Syria.

    Obama chose PPK to do the heavy lifting for him in exchange for stopping daesh

    PPK knew it was a once off help from USA who do not take sides in Syria and never supported ppk before – labelled them terrorists

    Now lefties want to blame Trump for what Obama did – which was keep iran and Russia happy while dipping his foot into a quagmire for which it would be impossible to withdraw without causing issues.

    Obama created this shit fight you moron.

  135. Unusually clear grain structure on this piece of timber being sawn.
    https://youtu.be/tpJrTBSN_rI

  136. Iampeter

    As I wrote above…fuck off Jooo hating racist.

    Wow. I agree with your stance. Really don’t have any time for racists myself, least of all antisemites.
    I can only imagine how you must feel about guys like Muddy who have proudly declared themselves as racists here at the Cat…

  137. 1735099

    Cassie apparently said she’d like to shoot people………………….

    I wasn’t referring to her.
    Her speciality is abuse.
    Shooting people is further along the continuum.

    Admitted to time and again by left wing politicians.

    Find me one “left wing” politician who espouses replacement theory.
    Right wing extremists, on the other hand…..

    One sided gunfights are a left wing speciality.

    So Anders Brevik is suddenly “Left wing”?

    That’s a lie, the shooter never mentioned RoP.

    Not according to his manifesto shared on Twitch –

    The documents, which include a link to the livestream of the shooting, are vehemently antisemitic and racist. They state that the attack’s timing – on Yom Kippur, the Jewish day of atonement and one of the religion’s high holidays – was intentional. They also assert the shooter considered a mosque or “antifa ‘culture’ center” as alternate targets.

  138. Rockdoctor

    Dr Faustus

    #3180218, posted on October 10, 2019 at 12:18 pm

    Yup about sums it…. Have a look at the CM & half the columnists that last time I seriously looked airbrushed the Peter Beattie spin doctor part of their profiles to media advisor to the Premier’s office or similar. One wonders how long they sat on the Trad story & Pisale’s corruption stories before the couldn’t keep the lid on any longer.

  139. Iampeter

    Sort of reminds me of going into an abo cultural centre, where they make grand statements about sharing their culture, knowledge and wisdom, and “teaching us” yet, actually teach nothing and have nothing but fairy tales on offer,

    Sounds exactly like a group of religious conservatives.

  140. thefrollickingmole

    Operationally, he’s not going to do a damn thing about Erdogan’s ethnic cleansing.

    Monty the neo-con?

    Slightly older map but heres the rough outline of oil production & who controls areas, why does Monty want US boys to die for “big oil”?

    http://energy-cg.com/MiddleEast/Syria/Syria_MilitarySituation_Image1x1_Apr18_EnergyConsutlingGroup_web.png

    And one last serious question, how long should the US stay in Syria, whats your exit strategy and objectives.

    Or are you just seething that the Orange man hasnt found a “quagmire” yet?

  141. Speedbox

    Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault
    #3180230, posted on October 10, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Yep.

  142. Knuckle Dragger

    Monty!

    Chickenhawk!

    Ba-KAAAACK!

  143. thefrollickingmole

    They had WAs deputy police spokeweasel on thier ABC this morning.
    In one interview he went from

    “My lived experience driving tells me peole are driving better and no-one is speeding”.

    Followed by (after a cranky call from a Mandurah person complaining about crime) “peoples perceptions arent reality, everything is stable, and the problems are a few people and lack of health care for them”….

    Pure crap.

  144. thefrollickingmole

    Knuckle Dragger

    Dont be too harsh, hes just watched “Rambo” and wants the US to return to Vietnam to do the job properly.
    Same rationale, after all.

  145. Mother Lode

    Notafan do you mean to say my Italian Professor taught me incorrect history Galileo was put under house arrest for following Erasmus and his own studies that the earth not the centre of the universe.

    Galileo was arrested for trying to prove heliocentrism with scripture. Regarding geocentrism and heliocentrism, the Church’s position was to have no position.

    Apart from its religious function the Church was also the leading institution of learning. In that sphere they felt there were aspects recommending and contradicting both theories. Galileo was adamant that heliocentrism was right, but could not explain it.

    That just made him a crank.

    But when he started trying to use scripture to prove it he was called out, but only for abusing scripture.

  146. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Followed by (after a cranky call from a Mandurah person complaining about crime) “peoples perceptions arent reality, everything is stable, and the problems are a few people and lack of health care for them”….

    Yeah, ummm, isn’t Mandurah the ice capital of Western Australia?

  147. 1735099

    Dickhead, the template for this sort of thing was established by the RoP;

    So Anders Brevik and the Christchurch thug were figments of the imagination?

    That’s a lie, the shooter never mentioned RoP. He was an anti-Semite just like the RoP.

    Except that’s not what he posted –

    Later on Wednesday, a written manifesto emerged online where the shooter published photos of the homemade gun, pipe bombs and grenades used in the assault.
    He claimed he had initially planned to target a mosque or culture centre, where he believed “antifa” would be present.

    Christchurch was a leftie greenie;

    His manifesto went on and on about replacement theory. That’s a far-right meme, and has been for years. It appears here frequently.

    The best indicator of what these crackpots believe is what they post, not what you rationalise.
    There is a stark resemblance between their nutcase notions, and what appears here routinely as political wallpaper.

  148. struth

    Sounds exactly like a group of religious conservatives.

    Left wing fantasist using left wing terminology.

  149. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    Isn’t Mandurah the ice capital of Western Australia?

    That’s sad.
    I’m old enough to remember when it was the tailor capital of the universe.
    The tailor runs under the bridge on the turns of the tide were legendary.
    You didn’t even need bait!

  150. Iampeter

    What do you think One Nation, ALA, Australian Conservatives, SFF and other conservative parties are?

    Oh, I don’t remember any of these parties opposing Howard. The Australian Conservatives even regard him as The Last True Conservative Government. That’s going to make it hard to oppose the mess he created.

    Also, your answer to enviro-nazi’s seems to be softer variants of more traditional nazi’s.

    No thanks.

  151. struth

    Sniffy, until you can answer whether or not a country that has private business ownership is socialist or not, why do consider any of us would take you seriously?
    You’re no different than Monty, ( of course) , you need to be told what to think.

  152. thefrollickingmole

    Yeah, ummm, isn’t Mandurah the ice capital of Western Australia?

    That would be an ecumenical matter..

    (actually that falls under his weaselwording of ‘health matters”)

  153. feelthebern

    IT, stop screwing around with CL’s posts.
    Just because you own 50% of the Cat doesn’t mean you can act like an AFL commissioner.

  154. Delcon

    Roger
    #3180175, posted on October 10, 2019 at 11:36 am
    I believe Trump was an idiot to evacuate his troops from Northern Syria

    He’s an idiot for following through on a campaign promise which the American people were clamouring for?

    Meanwhile, it’s illuminating to see the Prog-Left press, who for decades have consistently damned US foreign military interventions, now damning Trump for withdrawing his troops.

    The Left is hypocritical.
    Water is wet.
    So what?
    That doesn’t mean that Leftists of whom, on every other day I would call blathering idiots together be right, can’t be right. Today I tend to agree with the troll Monty (regardless of his agenda) and the uber-moonbat AOC (regardless of his agenda) than most of the Cats. And if Trump’s actions made me be on the same side as fools like that, I resent Trump for that. I want to continue to hate these low-lives, as they deserve. But today I agree with just about every word they say.

    As for Trump following up on election promise. Look at the timing, pal. You don’t just evacuate your troops who are in a place for years within 24 hours just before Erdogan sends his troops in and say, “hey guys, this is just about keeping election promises, OK, guys?” That’s bullshit.

    Whatever his election promises were, it is clear, based on the circumstances and context of the situation, that this was all about capitulation of America to Turkey.

    Not good.

  155. struth

    He claimed he had initially planned to target a mosque or culture centre, where he believed “antifa” would be present.

    Besides other arguments that will be made by others, I’ll add this.

    There needed to be a violent Antifa first, before they could be attacked, (and yet were not)

    If I had half a chance, I’d have a crack at Antifa as well.

    Here’s a point that you may wish to consider.
    Antifa started it.
    Mooosies started it.

    All enabled and part of, the left.
    Left wing educators that caused these divisions, using cultural marxism identity politics, need stringing up, and I’d gladly pull the lever.

  156. C.L.

    Farewell, quad bikes. They are now set to become cars.
    But why stop there? The Morrison government wants to go further …

    [Assistant Treasurer Michael] Sukkar said he would also write to state and territory governments calling on them to ban children from riding adult-sized quad bikes, and prohibit passengers on single person quad bikes.

    He will also recommend that states mandate helmets for persons riding quad bikes.

  157. feelthebern

    Today, at one committee hearing, Tim Wilson put more acid on the union movement than David L did in his entire time in Canberra.

  158. stackja

    ER is probably holidaying students getting extra money.

  159. Nelson Kidd-Players

    Does the Currency Lad now also have the keys to the spamminator?

  160. Bruce of Newcastle

    Oh, I don’t remember any of these parties opposing Howard.

    Is that the Howard who put Pauline Hanson in gaol or another one?

  161. struth

    Today, at one committee hearing, Tim Wilson put more acid on the union movement than David L did in his entire time in Canberra.

    Yes but priorities, please.

    There was legalising drugs and studying the selling of smokes to be done.

  162. stackja

    I believe PHON broke a law.

  163. struth

    Oh, I don’t remember any of these parties opposing Howard.

    Obviously, yet they did.
    So much so, Abbott got Pauline put in jail.
    You may still have been in Nappies, so we’ll let you off on that one, although ignorance is no excuse if you wish to comment.

  164. Stimpson J. Cat

    Today, at one committee hearing, Tim Wilson put more acid on the union movement than David L did in his entire time in Canberra.

    He is an incredibly cuddly man.
    Can I get a Fact Check please Sinc?
    I would hate to be banned for lying.
    😂

  165. Arky

    Iampeter and Nuberwangster’s primary reason for being here is to disrupt.
    They may have secondary reasons, such as getting the attention their mummies deprived them of, a pathology any teacher sees on a daily basis: the neglected child who will behave badly because negative interactions are better than none at all, or negative interactions are all they accustomed to.
    It is sad, but at some point a responsible school says: Enough! We are sad for you, but the imperative of teaching the class as a whole outweighs dealing with your impossible psychosis.
    Time for either the blog owner to place some sensible restrictions on these two vandals, or for the rest of us to give this site a break for awhile.

  166. Delcon

    Arky
    #3180276, posted on October 10, 2019 at 1:33 pm
    Iampeter and Nuberwangster’s primary reason for being here is to disrupt.
    They may have secondary reasons, such as getting the attention their mummies deprived them of, a pathology any teacher sees on a daily basis: the neglected child who will behave badly because negative interactions are better than none at all, or negative interactions are all they accustomed to.
    It is sad, but at some point a responsible school says: Enough! We are sad for you, but the imperative of teaching the class as a whole outweighs dealing with your impossible psychosis.
    Time for either the blog owner to place some sensible restrictions on these two vandals, or for the rest of us to give this site a break for awhile.

    Just ignore them.

  167. notafan

    Notafan do you mean to say my Italian Professor taught me incorrect history Galileo was put under house arrest for following Erasmus and his own studies that the earth not the centre of the universe.

    Good point regarding the earth not being the centre of the universe, nor was the sun, as Galileo thought.

    Why yes I do think I am saying your ‘Italian professor’ was wrong, it is flip and oversymplifying to say that Galileo was put under house arrest because the Church was anti science

    and for Bruno asked and answered

    we all know that Galileo was put under house arrest -that discussion has been had here, more than once
    he was extremely rude to the pope who had sponsored his work and the issue was far more ab9uttheologyl not scientific

    one again you use the appeal to authority fallacy

    n Galileo’s case, the second and third conditions were not present, and possibly not even the first. Catholic theology has never claimed that a mere papal ratification of a tribunal decree is an exercise of infallibility. It is a straw man argument to represent the Catholic Church as having infallibly defined a scientific theory that turned out to be false. The strongest claim that can be made is that the Church of Galileo’s day issued a non-infallible disciplinary ruling concerning a scientist who was advocating a new and still-unproven theory and demanding that the Church change its understanding of Scripture to fit his.

    It is a good thing that the Church did not rush to embrace Galileo’s views, because it turned out that his ideas were not entirely correct, either. Galileo believed that the sun was not just the fixed center of the solar system but the fixed center of the universe. We now know that the sun is not the center of the universe and that it does move—it simply orbits the center of the galaxy rather than the earth.

    The Galileo Controversy

  168. thefrollickingmole

    He is an incredibly cuddly man.
    Can I get a Fact Check please Sinc?
    I would hate to be banned for lying.

    Oh dear, at least they arent Beagles or Id really be worried…

    On a serious note is there a link or anything to Tim giving the unions a hard time?

  169. feelthebern

    Tomorrow our time, 22 year old Daniel Jones will start his 4th game as NY Giants QB against 42 year old Tom Brady & his Patriots.
    Could you imagine the excitement the young man would be feeling?

  170. struth

    This only disrupts your scrolling finger.

  171. feelthebern

    On a serious note is there a link or anything to Tim giving the unions a hard time?

    Industry super appearing before some committee in Canberra.

  172. Arky

    Iampeter has completely destroyed many comment threads on very interesting topics.
    Topics around media, technology and censorship are now impossible to conduct here.
    His rhetorical tactics are puerile and apparently carefully designed to enmesh anyone foolish enough to engage him in a downward spiral of abuse and idiocy.

  173. feelthebern

    His rhetorical tactics are puerile and apparently carefully designed to enmesh anyone foolish enough to engage him in a downward spiral of abuse and idiocy.

    Sounds like a lobster pot.

  174. Arky

    I will not be posting comments or articles for a while.
    This is ridiculous.

  175. Bruce of Newcastle

    I believe PHON broke a law.

    Not according to the Qld Court of Appeal.

  176. “Arky
    #3180285, posted on October 10, 2019 at 1:38 pm
    I will not be posting comments or articles for a while.
    This is ridiculous.”

    Agree Arky.

  177. feelthebern

    Not according to the Qld Court of Appeal.

    Correct.
    I thought Cat’s were well schooled in civics.
    Clearly I was wrong.

  178. struth

    Iampeter has completely destroyed many comment threads on very interesting topics.
    Topics around media, technology and censorship are now impossible to conduct here.
    His rhetorical tactics are puerile and apparently carefully designed to enmesh anyone foolish enough to engage him in a downward spiral of abuse and idiocy

    He’s destroyed nothing, you don’t run out of paper on the internet.
    There is no set limit to the comments.

    And he’s been shown to be a political and historical vacant.

    That’s why Sinc has these characters here.
    So that we can destroy them.

    Chip in, it’s fun.

  179. Iampeter

    Arky, most of the stuff I say here should not be all that contentious on what is meant to be a Libertarian and Centre-Right blog.
    I think you resident screaming fools, who would actually be banned anywhere else, have so successfully driven off anyone who might have a clue or be capable of maintaining civil discourse, that you don’t see that you’re the problem.
    Such is the danger of mindless echo chambers.

    At a capitalist blog, those who oppose things like free trade, believe rights and freedom don’t exist and think people who support these positions are “trolls” are the ones who have no business there.

  180. feelthebern

    At a capitalist blog, those who oppose things like free trade, believe rights and freedom don’t exist and think people who support these positions are “trolls” are the ones who have no business there.

    Sounds like the ravings of a nut bag.
    Serious question.
    Are R U OK?

  181. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    is there a link or anything to Tim giving the unions a hard time?

    Depends.
    Are you talking about cis or trans gender “union”?
    He’s an ardent supporter of the latter, but not so forthcoming about the former.

  182. stackja

    BON – Lower court in error?
    Lindy and GP come to mind.

  183. feelthebern

    Geez, I thought TW giving industry super some curry would have been cheered on.

  184. Iampeter

    Not to mention the glaring self contradictions of whining SJW’s who think conservatives being banned from private property are being “censored,” but yet shamelessly call for people they disagree with to be banned.

    Typical gibberish and self-contradiction.
    I’m not sure it’s healthy to constantly have so much egg on your face…

  185. cohenite

    So Anders Brevik and the Christchurch thug were figments of the imagination?

    Breivik was anti-RoP and killed non-RoP people to prove his point. Go figure. Yet left scum categorise him as a white supremacist, typical of Western values.

    Christchurch was similarly nonsensical espousing anti-RoP sentiments with extreme ecoism based on general misanthropy. He is also described as alt-right etc.

    These ratbags are genuine lone wolf nutters removed from their society (unlike RoP so-called lone wolves who are absolutely represent RoP).

    The left have no credibility in these matters but use them to promote their policies such as disarming the populace and denigrating Western society.

    You’re just another left-wing piece of shit.

  186. feelthebern

    Typical gibberish and self-contradiction.

    Well I’m glad you admit to it, Iampenis.
    It’s the first step to recovery.

  187. struth

    At a capitalist blog, those who oppose things like free trade, believe rights and freedom don’t exist and think people who support these positions are “trolls” are the ones who have no business there.

    And you’re so fucking deluded you think there are people here who oppose free trade and rights?

    You’re a left wing troll trying to do what lefties do, divide to conquer.
    The problem is here you cannot do it by force, so you’re screwed.

  188. cohenite

    I believe PHON broke a law.

    Obviously since our Pauline went to jail.

  189. Iampeter

    Iampeter has completely destroyed many comment threads on very interesting topics.

    You support centrally planning an economy and don’t believe rights exist, but think you’re a capitalist.
    The one pointing out the glaring problems with your positions is not destroying any threads.

    Someone as confused as you about politics and economics trying to shut-up those of us who are genuinely interested in the subject is what’s actually ridiculous here.

  190. Iampeter

    Topics around media, technology and censorship are now impossible to conduct here.

    You mean you were educated what “censorship” and “free speech” actually mean, didn’t like the answer because it doesn’t align with your superficial, talking-points level of understanding and therefore think the one explaining the basics to you is derailing threads?

  191. thefrollickingmole

    Arky

    You are right on the uselessness of engaging with iampenis, hes engaged in sophistry not debate.
    Numberwang is just a mentally ill old toad who cant reconcile hating the government for what it did to him with at the same time believing the solution to everything is more government.
    Monty is the rakemeister, its just fun to see how he will contradict himself/step on his own dick/commit wrongology in under 10 posts on nearly any subject.

    Theres plenty of room for disagreement on the Syria pullout, but with no stated objective left why should the Yanks stay? Either they end up being used as cats paws while the Kurds try to carve out their own country, leave or actively support the Kurds ambitions.

    In effect its probably a “baddies vs baddies” situation with no good outcomes.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-marxist-allies-against-isis-1437747949

    The PKK and affiliates have car-bombed Turkish cities, kidnapped hundreds and killed Turkish and Kurdish state employees. In 2009, the U.S. Treasury Department designated their leadership as significant narcotics traffickers. The PKK ruthlessly dispatches Kurdish political rivals in Syria and elsewhere, according to New York based Human Rights Watch.

    Zagros Hiwa, a PKK spokesman, said: “We have been defending our people against the denial and elimination policies of the Turkish state against the Kurds. Our struggle has always been on the basis of legitimate self-defense.”

    The PKK practices an offshoot of Marxism it calls Democratic Confederalism. The group’s utopian goals echo those of some Cold War-era leftist militias. It aims to create a Maoist-inspired agrarian society that opposes landowning classes, espouses gender equality and distances itself from religion. Its guerrillas speak of a leaderless society of equals but also glorify Mr. Ocalan with fanatical devotion. They talk of needing to inculcate Kurdish populations with their ideology, rigidly centralized around Mr. Ocalan’s writings.

  192. cohenite

    Hey Iampete what are your views on erotic asphyxiation?

  193. Iampeter

    His rhetorical tactics are puerile and apparently carefully designed to enmesh anyone foolish enough to engage him in a downward spiral of abuse and idiocy.

    The lack of self awareness required to write something like this from one of the most idiotic and abusive posters here has to be seen to be believed too.

  194. Top Ender

    Extinction Rebellion activists are ‘ordinary people’? I think not

    THE MOCKER

    An open letter to journalist, writer, and climate activist Chloe Adams, whose article “I’m an Extinction Rebellion protester and I’ll be disrupting your work commute. Here’s why” was published by ABC on Tuesday.

    Dear Chloe,

    Thank you for sharing that heartfelt piece with us. It was most, um, interesting. Here’s why.

    I too worry about the climate, particularly that overpowering smugness and self-righteousness in the air of late. I find that atmosphere insufferable. It is the zealotry of those who believe they are ordained with a divine purpose, that being to save mankind from self-destruction. When I read your declaration “It is falling to ordinary people like me now to tell the truth of our climate emergency,” I understood exactly where you are coming from, even if you do not.

    You say XR (what an edgy abbreviation) is composed of “ordinary” people, something you repeatedly stress in this piece. I assume you mean those adults who glue themselves to the road, chain themselves to rail tracks, buzz about in giant bee costumes, ponce about in public, do a nude parade, sob hysterically, or dress up like they’ve just been transported from JRR Tolkien’s Middle-earth. When I saw those flamboyant “Red Rebels”, which I mistook for an Oxford Street version of Emperor Palpatine’s Imperial Guards, I thought “Wow, these are ordinary people like me.”

    Given you emphasise your ordinariness as part of your activism, I am perplexed why you would lament, saying, “Inevitably these protesters, myself included, will be reduced by some news media to just another bunch of climate activists. I want to tell you though, that term ‘climate activist’, whilst true, is limiting.” How so? “It certainly doesn’t capture the truth of who I am or why I joined XR,” you add. “It doesn’t tell you that I am a mother of two small children. Or that I have lived a law-abiding life.” Uh-huh.

    And then you continue “You wouldn’t know for instance, that I am haunted by one image: the moment my children are old enough to understand the gravity of the climate crisis, and they look me in the eye and ask, ‘but what did you do Mummy?’” Yes, we get it. You are a devoted and truly wonderful mother. Forgive me though if I sound like a complete bastard when I say the quickest way to lose people in a debate is to resort to these irrelevant and syrupy platitudes. Not only do they come across as self-serving, they also give the impression you are trying to bolster a weak argument.

    Only last month climate activist Tim Flannery tried a similar tactic, saying that the actions of the so-called denialists were “predatory”. He even went as far to proclaim “I have come to understand they are threatening my children’s wellbeing as much as anyone who might seek to harm a child.” How edifying. I also note you describe him as one “of the greatest minds in the climate and environmental space”. Seeing you are a journalist, I would have expected you to know he is not even a climate scientist, but then again activism and journalism make for an insurmountable conflict of interest.

    It may surprise you, Chloe, or should I say Chloe-mother-of-two-small-children, but nearly all of those people you and your fellow demonstrators obstruct in the name of civil disobedience also love their kids, as well as worry about their future. Contrary to what you may think, they are not ignorant or dismissive about climate change. In fact, some of them are well-informed about the challenges. For instance, they would probably ask how you propose to keep the economy going if we suddenly put an end to our oil, coal, and gas projects, and what effect that abandonment would have on essentials such as health services, transport, education, and welfare, just to name a few.

    They may also ask you how much the average temperature would fall if Australia reduced its 1.3 per cent of global carbon dioxide emissions to zero. I encourage you to answer, for in the absence of any explanation they may infer XR is a merely a pseudo-religion or cult that insists on virtue through making pointless gestures at great cost. And if you are so concerned about reducing emissions, you might also tell us why we never see your lot demonstrating outside the Chinese embassy. You do know that country is the world’s biggest emitter I take it?

    Less you believe I am too critical, I think you made a good point when you said that “climate activist” does not fully define you or by extension your fellow XR members. For example, in your article there is an accompanying photo of activists with the banner “Socialist Rebellion — Burn Borders Not Coal”. One of XR’s demands is that Australia “Dismantle colonial systems of oppression: decolonise and replace oppressive government structures with systems of self-management & true participatory democracy.”

    Stuart Basden, one of XR’s co-founders, freely admits that “XR isn’t about the climate”. He denounces concepts such as “heteronormativity”, “class hierarchy” and “patriarchy”. He also calls for white people to pay reparations to black Americans descended from slaves. “It’s a call to the XR community to never say we’re a climate movement,” he writes. “Because we’re not. We’re a Rebellion.”

    Or this from Gail Bradbrook, another of XR’s co-founders: “For me this is part of reweaving the human family back together again, it’s part of dealing with systemic racism, white supremacy and the wounds of patriarchy that want to separate us, make us feel powerless …” It sounds like XR is more concerned with my rehabilitation than it is the earth’s. And yet you wear a “Tell the Truth” badge and maintain “it is this ordinariness that is perhaps the most compelling aspect of Extinction Rebellion.” This movement is about as ordinary and mainstream as a verdant Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.

    “Stopping climate change enables us to also solve “systemic racism, white supremacy, and the wounds of the patriarchy”.

    Yep. Straight from the mouth of @ExtinctionR’s co founder, Gail Bradbook.

    Last January you wrote in the Sydney Morning Herald “I know families who have even fled the city and are raising their children in the wild, convinced by civilisation’s imminent collapse and determined to give their offspring a head start.” If a friend of mine did this, my first thought would be to get him professional help. Instead you wrote “No matter what you make of their choices, these are educated people who want the best for their kids.” Presumably it never occurred to you that educated people are also capable of losing their you-know-what in a big way.

    You need to listen to yourself. You seriously heed the words of friends and acquaintances who utter paranoid inanities such as:

    • “I literally wake up every morning and check my phone wondering if there will be an alert saying a nuclear bomb was detonated.”

    • “We have industrial quantities of dried carbs and tinned food in our pantry at the moment.”

    • “I feel like world news is directly affecting my mental health.”

    • “I looked into buying gold and I started reading prepper material.”

    • “I just wish I knew whether to make contributions into my super.”

    Yet when you write of your transition to activist you state “I lose sleep at night, wrestling with the discomfort of what I am doing. Will I lose friends?” I am confused. If anything, it sounds like your alarmist friends will applaud what you are doing. So why the big deal about fretting over potentially losing them — or is this just more hype and self-pity porn?

    I know you do not welcome my saying this, Chloe-who-has-lived-a-law-abiding-life, but I think you would be far better off reinventing yourself as Chloe-who-has-an-entirely-new-set-of-friends, ones that are “ordinary” in the sense of being normal and well-adjusted. It may even make you happy or at the very least less miserable. It certainly is far preferable to playing planetary saviour by deliberately obstructing innocent strangers for hours on end.

    Lastly, we all know the teenage activist Greta Thunberg has declared that “the world is waking up”. You write effusively of this “And I believe, with that waking up comes personal responsibility.” Like that 16-year-old girl, you have conflated waking up to oneself with wokeness, even though the two could not be further apart in meaning. As for personal responsibility, your take on that phrase is very different from mine.

    Yours sincerely, an ordinary person.

    THE MOCKER Oz link

  195. Delcon

    Arky
    #3180283, posted on October 10, 2019 at 1:37 pm
    Iampeter has completely destroyed many comment threads on very interesting topics.
    Topics around media, technology and censorship are now impossible to conduct here.
    His rhetorical tactics are puerile and apparently carefully designed to enmesh anyone foolish enough to engage him in a downward spiral of abuse and idiocy.

    I think we should continue to (try to) put up with trolls on this blog.
    Freedom has a price. This price can be paid in many different forms.
    Many have even made the supreme sacrifice. We just pay with a bit of time (and nerves!)
    Yesterday, I made many, many posts in toing and froing with the pathetic troll, before realising that he is just a fool who probably has some serious issues and debating him is a waste of time.
    I very much sympathise with the sentiment of those calling to ban him. I don’t think his attitude, or intentions for that matter, are constructive at all to this blog.
    However, and this is the price we have to pay for freedom, once we start banning posters just because they are annoying, we are on a slippery slope. Maybe there will be some poster who will post something which will annoy us (like the troll), but will contain some valid point (very unlikely ever to be with this troll).
    It took me a bit of time and a lot of energy to figure out that he is nothing more than a little worthless troll. But, now that we realise it, let’s just ignore him. He will continue calling all of us stupid (or, as he did yesterday, dickheads) for a while, but after that, when everyone ignores him, the novelty will wear off.
    He will realise that the adults are too busy to play with him. Maybe that will get him to wind down a bit.
    I say, don’t ban this stupid troll.

  196. Bruce of Newcastle

    BON – Lower court in error?

    Stackja – I’m just an instant expert courtesy of PH’s wiki, which says it was a jury trial…of a controversial right-wing pollie.

  197. Nelson Kidd-Players

    Just to make a few adjustments, like preventing bålls from getting jammed, for example.

  198. JC

    Imploder.

    After your efforts – confusing freedom of association with collectivism, you have no business giving lessons to anyone.

    Hand in the computer to the orderly. Now!

  199. Nelson Kidd-Players

    BON, that is interesting, as it points to a certain Cardinal’s case having more in common with PH than with Lindy Chamberlain.

  200. thefrollickingmole

    Can Iampenis be moderated for a blatant lie.

    You support centrally planning an economy and don’t believe rights exist, but think you’re a capitalist.

    Neither of these accusations is true or supportable but figments from your the fever swamp of your brain.

  201. C.L.

    Sinclair is the editor, NK-P. I daren’t interfere with his Doomlordian sovereignty.

  202. Bruce of Newcastle

    When I saw those flamboyant “Red Rebels”, which I mistook for an Oxford Street version of Emperor Palpatine’s Imperial Guards, I thought “Wow, these are ordinary people like me.”

    Love it!

  203. JC

    I don’t normally like putting up entire pieces, but this is worth reading because I’m going out on a limb here and suggest she a decent chance of becoming President Chief High Cheeks.

    For the past generation, Democratic presidential candidates have mostly talked of redistributing the rewards of American capitalism while leaving its basic structure intact.

    Elizabeth Warren promises to break that mould. The Massachusetts senator, who has moved to the front ranks of the field, talks of remaking capitalism from the ground up. As president, she would drastically cut back the size and influence of big business, push private companies from parts of the economy altogether, and shift power to government and to labour.

    Businesses are meeting the rising prospect of a Warren presidency with a combination of concern, scepticism and, for a few, a sense of opportunity.

    Companies are used to Democrats criticising business, whether John Kerry, the 2004 nominee, for outsourcing jobs or President Obama, for causing the financial crisis. But no frontrunner has issued so comprehensive an indictment as Ms Warren, who has blamed business for, among other things stagnant wages, high student debt, global warming, gun violence, the prison population, high medical bills, and the shortage of affordable housing and child care.

    And no frontrunner has proposed such sweeping changes to how businesses operate. A President Warren would seek to regulate big tech companies as utilities, break up big banks and split them from securities dealers, ban fracking of oil and gas, phase-out carbon emission from buildings, cars and power plants in eight to 15 years, require big companies to appoint worker representatives to at least 40% of board seats, ban private health insurance and, effectively, for-profit college, and negotiate down drug prices.

    Her policies would directly affect companies with sales of nearly $US5 trillion and stockmarket value of more than $US8 trillion, a third of the S&P 500 stock index. Taxes on the wealthy and corporations would rise sharply.

    That, in turn, has led to nervousness among some executives. “She could create an environment where it is next to impossible to function” for health insurers, said Vicky Gregg, a former chief executive of BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee and now partner in a private-equity firm. “There’s no question that keeps you up at night if you’re a health-plan executive.” Others, particularly in Silicon Valley, are enthusiastic supporters of Ms Warren despite, or for some because of, her plans to break up big tech companies. Some economists predict her plans could boost growth and that business warnings about the harm of her policies should be taken with a grain of salt.

    “Businesses have cried wolf far too many times for that to be taken at face value during a presidential campaign,” said Austan Goolsbee, a University of Chicago economist who served under Mr Obama. When Ms Warren first proposed companies should be responsible to all stakeholders, not just shareholders, some called it socialism, he noted. A year later, “the Business Roundtable announced something very much in the spirit of what Elizabeth Warren said.” Some executives express the hope that her plans are so disruptive she would need to water them down significantly. A fracking ban “would decimate our industry,” said Scott Sheffield, CEO of Pioneer Natural Resources Co., one of the largest US shale companies. “We understand candidates for the presidential nomination often run to the extremes during the campaign and moderate their positions once they are responsible for governing.” Still, there is no sign of such moderation from Ms Warren, and political analysts warn not to expect any: Presidential candidates of late, including Donald Trump, have governed much as they campaigned.

    By arguing that the growth of corporate power over the last 35 years is at the root of many problems in the US, she would make the place of business in society a central theme of the election.

    Ms Warren, in laying out her case, has said she is “a capitalist to my bones,” whereas fellow candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders calls himself a “democratic socialist.” “I love what markets can do, I love what functioning economies can do. They are what make us rich, they are what create opportunity,” Ms Warren said on CNBC last year. “But only fair markets, markets with rules. Markets without rules is about the rich take it all, it’s about the powerful get all of it. And that’s what’s gone wrong in America.” Supporters say her proposals wouldn’t displace capitalism but align it with the what prevailed in the 1950s and 1960s and still does in many other Western countries.

    Ms Warren would impose a 2 per cent to 3 per cent tax on wealth above $US50 million, repeal President Trump’s tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, impose a new 7 per cent tax on big company profits and a 14.8 per cent tax on incomes above $US250,000 to finance expanded social security benefits.

    Many economists say high tax rates discourage investment and work, and thus slow economic growth. Gabriel Zucman, a professor of economics at the University of California, Berkeley who advised Ms Warren on the wealth tax, said it depends on how the money is spent. “If it’s spent on child care, and that increases women’s labour force participation, then you get an increase in income for part of the population.” He noted the wealthy paid 91 per cent rates on incomes and 77 per cent on estates in the 1950s and 1960s and “there’s no evidence it killed innovation or growth.” Mark Zandi, economist at Moody’s Analytics, wrote in a series of reports that the taxes required to pay for Ms Warren’s proposals would damp investment and work by the wealthy, but that effect would also be more than offset by increased spending by lower-income people, such as childcare workers.

    Supporters note almost every advanced capitalist economy has single-payer health care, and in Germany, big companies have worker representatives on their boards. “It has not killed German capitalism,” said Mr Zucman. “They have some pretty strong corporations.”

    A sharp break

    If each Warren proposal has some precedent in US or foreign experience, in its totality her program would be a sharp break with capitalism as American companies know it.

    A senior executive at a Washington-based trade group who works closely with top CEOs said of the distinction often drawn between Ms Warren’s capitalism and Mr Sanders’ socialism: “I don’t know if business is buying that distinction. From a policy standpoint there doesn’t seem to be a great deal of difference.” (Mr Sanders sought the nomination in 2016 but unlike Ms Warren now, never led the Real Clear Politics polling average or online prediction markets.) A common refrain among business is that Ms Warren seems to thrive on attacking them, indeed considers it part of her brand. She retweets articles about their criticism with: “I approve this message.” The rancour is most acute among financiers Ms Warren regularly casts as villains, even after a decade of post crisis reforms that have made banks safer, less profitable and their treatment of consumers more tightly regulated. She called her capital-gains-tax proposal, introduced this summer, the Stop Wall Street Looting Act. Some still stew over her blocking investment banker Antonio Weiss from a Treasury job under Mr Obama in 2015, despite his Democratic credentials, because he worked on deals that moved some companies’ domiciles abroad.

    Few, however, will say so publicly, fearful of the damage she can do to their companies and share prices. Two weeks ago, she knocked 3 per cent off the shares of the two big bond-rating agencies by challenging the impartiality of their ratings in a letter to regulators. When the chief executive of United Health Group, parent of the country’s largest health insurer, briefly addressed the impact of Medicare for All in an earnings call, it was blamed for driving down the entire sector’s share prices.

    United Health says it “welcomes the renewed national discussion on how to achieve universal coverage.” In July, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, referring to Ms Warren’s plan to break up Facebook, said in remarks to employees reported by The Verge, a technology-news site: “If she gets elected president, then I would bet that we will have a legal challenge, and I would bet that we will win the legal challenge,” adding that “at the end of the day, if someone’s going to try to threaten something that existential, you go to the mat and you fight.” Ms Warren shot back on Twitter that Facebook has “a lot of power — and[faces] little competition or accountability.” Last week, Mr Zuckerberg held another employee Q&A, which was publicly livestreamed. Asked about Ms Warren’s plans and how Facebook’s platform would remain unbiased toward her, he joked he would “try not to antagonise her further,” then added employees needed to be neutral and empathetic to a wide range of opinions. “The value that we care about is giving people a voice and allowing people to express themselves,” he said. “We obviously try not to be biased.” The consensus among business leaders is that few of Ms Warren’s big initiatives will be enacted, because she will tack toward the centre if she secures the nomination or the White House, or because Congress and the courts won’t let her. An antitrust lawsuit against a big tech company would take a decade or longer and probably fail, Barclays analysts said in a July note.

    Medicare for All “would destroy” private insurers, said Matthew Borsch, an analyst with BMO Capital Markets. But, he said, an executive of a major health insurer, in a recent private meeting, put the odds of such a plan passing at “10,000 to one.” Many business leaders have no problem with Ms Warren’s goals, but do with the speed and means by which she means to reach them. Minneapolis-based electric utility Xcel Energy, which serves eight states, in December pledged to slash its carbon emissions 80 per cent by 2030 and 100 per cent 2050. That’s not good enough for Ms Warren, who has targeted 100 per cent by 2035.

    The problem, said CEO Ben Fowke, is that getting from 80 per cent to 100 per cent depends on as-yet-unproven advances in storage, carbon capture, and nuclear and hydrogen generation. Ms Warren “would set up some unrealistic expectations.” Car manufacturers are rolling out electric models, but none has yet found a way to make such a car affordable to mainstream consumers and profitable. “The current market is 1 per cent electric vehicles. All of those, 100 per cent, are sold at a loss. The industry isn’t here as a non-profit, ” said one auto executive. The economics will improve, yet Ms Warren’s plan to make all new cars emissions-free by 2030 “is, simply put, preposterous.” The Trump administration is already mulling action on drug prices. Ms Warren would go much further, letting Medicare negotiate prices with suppliers, permitting imports of cheaper foreign medicines and having the federal government manufacture scarce generics.

    Ron Cohen, CEO of biotech drugmaker Acorda Therapeutics said there are legitimate concerns about drug costs and some price increases have been excessive. But her proposals won’t work, he said: Patients could lose access to vital drugs if Medicare and manufacturers can’t agree on a price, and it would be more efficient for the federal government to offer existing manufacturers incentives such as tax breaks to make scarce generics.

    Ms Warren’s sympathisers aren’t surprised by the blowback. They see big-company CEOs as preoccupied with their own welfare rather than that of the economy as a whole. Small banks, they argue, would benefit from breaking up big banks, and start-up technology companies would benefit from breaking the grip of big tech companies on internet search, social media and e-commerce.

    “Breaking up big tech is pro-growth and pro-innovation,” said Bharat Ramamurti, who heads Ms Warren’s economic policy team. “In the 90s, Microsoft was threatening to corner the internet via internet Explorer and Windows, and federal government antitrust action helped pave the way for companies like Google and Facebook to emerge in the first place. And now Google and Facebook dominate that space, and smaller tech companies are run out of business or snapped up — undermining innovation and dynamism.” Some private analysts agree: “If Warren does break up the big tech giants, we will see more competitors and innovation,” said Jonathan Tepper, head of a financial markets advisory firm Variant Perception, who has been critical of the companies. “The telecoms and tech boom happened after AT&T no longer had a stranglehold on US telecoms. Likewise, breaking IBM’s hold of hardware and software led to the software boom of the 1980s and 1990s.”

    Business supporters

    Ms Warren does draw business support, in particular in Silicon Valley, because some agree with her plans for business, don’t think they’ll happen or simply consider the rest of her agenda more important. Venture capitalist and liberal donor Chris Sacca called her wealth tax “*extremely* and *radically* … reasonable” on Twitter.

    In June, venture capitalist and former Facebook executive Chamath Palihapitiya tweeted: “I don’t agree with many of her proposals but I donated to Elizabeth Warren because SHE IS THE ONLY MAJOR CANDIDATE WITH STUFF WRITTEN DOWN.” In an email, Mr Palihapitiya predicted big tech wouldn’t ultimately be one of the issues Ms Warren prioritises.

    In response to concerns that phasing out fossil fuels would kill jobs, Ms Warren has said her green energy and climate adaptation plans will create millions of even better paying jobs.

    Businesses have a history of adapting to, and ultimately profiting from, expanded government. Accountants vehemently opposed being regulated under the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act, then made a fortune advising companies on the law’s provisions, notes one former Democratic staffer who worked on the law.

    Some health-insurance executives hope Ms Warren’s push for Medicare for All will fall short and, to win over moderate legislators, she will instead expand coverage in a way that would bring them more customers — as Mr Obama’s Affordable Care Act did.

    And for many business leaders, Mr Trump, given his attacks on free trade, immigration and companies that cross him, isn’t an overly appetising alternative. Thus, uneasy as they at the prospect of a Warren presidency, few would act actively work to re-elect Mr Trump, the Washington trade executive speculated.

    The Wall Street Journal

    Notice how she’s still getting support from Silicon Valley. The Dow could more than halve.

  204. zyconoclast

    Today, at one committee hearing, Tim Wilson put more acid on the union movement than David L did in his entire time in Canberra.

    He is an incredibly cuddly man.
    Can I get a Fact Check please Sinc?
    I would hate to be banned for lying.

    Pepper spray ✔
    Tear gas ✔
    Water canon ✔
    Colouring books ✔

  205. Bruce of Newcastle

    In case any Cats haven’t seen the photo Mocker is referring to here it is.

  206. stackja

    BON – I view criticism of JH and TA as helping leftists. I believe Gough and RGR created more misery than the two most criticised here.

  207. thefrollickingmole

    In response to concerns that phasing out fossil fuels would kill jobs, Ms Warren has said her green energy and climate adaptation plans will create millions of even better paying jobs.

    And power prices will????

    a: Go up, obviously, less efficient power with more workers is a recipe for price rises
    b: Go down, because only the “rich” will pay for everything.
    c: Shut up.

  208. stackja

    Regarding Warren, USA voters elected FDR who promised utopia.

  209. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    I view criticism of JH and TA as helping leftists. I believe Gough and RGR created more misery than the two most criticised here.

    JH started the disarmament of the civilian population, introduced retrospective legislation, the plaything of tyrants and dictators, and gave us the legislative basis for all the “global warming” nonsense that has been followed by every PM since.

    Gough and RGR were bungling, rank amateurs compared to him. Abbott tried to follow in Howard’s footsteps, but fell well short of the mark. Howard towers head and shoulders above all of them.

    If there is any justice, Howard will one day be remembered as the greatest traitor to ever hold political office in the history of this country.

  210. stackja

    BON – photo people in Sydney too.

  211. stackja

    Peter you have your view.
    I have mine.

  212. bespoke

    Hi Peter

    What have you been up to?

  213. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    Getting my extended families’ affairs in order, Bespoke.
    Trying to maximise use of the short time left, in this calm before the coming storm.

  214. cohenite

    BON – I view criticism of JH and TA as helping leftists. I believe Gough and RGR created more misery than the two most criticised here.

    Turdball is the biggest arsehole of them all. Howard’s position will continue to sink; after all he achieved the trifecta: got alarmism rolling, disarmed the populace and encouraged turdball.

  215. Gilas

    Delcon
    #3180307, posted on October 10, 2019 at 1:53 pm

    Arky
    #3180283, posted on October 10, 2019 at 1:37 pm
    Iampeter has completely destroyed many comment threads on very interesting topics.
    Topics around media, technology and censorship are now impossible to conduct here.
    His rhetorical tactics are puerile and apparently carefully designed to enmesh anyone foolish enough to engage him in a downward spiral of abuse and idiocy.

    I think we should continue to (try to) put up with trolls on this blog.
    ….
    just a fool who probably has some serious issues and debating him is a waste of time.

    As true as the Laws of Thermodynamics.

    .. and yet most of this thread is a troll-trio feeding-frenzy

    A really good way to discourage them!

  216. stackja

    cohenite – JH was convinced by ‘science’. As were many at the time. MT was always going to be trouble. Voters of Wentworth don’t seem to be very aware.

  217. JC

    Turdball is the biggest arsehole of them all.

    Almost as bad as that leftist Abbott. Almost.

    Abbott’s first decision as PM was to hand over a job to Scott the Spoiler.

    He went into the election promising the high paid almost the same pay for 6 months, if they dropped a kid of two or three.

    He signed on to Gonsky and the NDIS

    Simultaneously, he was calling a budget emergency.

    He walked away from repealing 18C.

    He raised taxes.

    We knew Turdbull was a leftist, but Abbott was a dishonest one.

    Stop making up shit that Abbott was some sort of Rightwing God as he was anything but.

    Shut up Cronkite. Just shut up.

  218. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Bill Shorten offered handouts, not hope: Richard Marles on why workers turned on Labor

    Greg Brown
    Journalist
    @gregbrown_TheOz
    An hour ago October 10, 2019

    Deputy Labor leader Richard Marles will declare working class voters turned off the party at the May election because Bill Shorten was offering “handouts rather than hope”.

    In a speech in Melbourne to be delivered tonight, the Victorian Right MP will say Labor must “stake out the political centre” and offer working-class people the prospect of a better life if they work hard, rather than focusing on welfare and subsidies.

    “We must always be the party of people who work hard, who contribute, whose efforts and sacrifice drive our economic success,” Mr Marles will say.

    “We won’t win the next election simply relying on a big spending agenda nor running on the policies of the past in glossy brochures promising a solution to everything for everyone.

    “We will win it with a clear and persuasive argument about the kind of society a Labor Government will build. One that at its core provides a bedrock for growth and productivity.”

    The reasons for Labor’s federal election defeat in May have sparked a round of soul searching within the ALP about the party’s future policy direction.

    It is grappling with how to attract voters from progressive inner city seats under fire from the Greens and maintain support in the nation’s outer suburbs and the resources states of Queensland and Western Australia.

    From the Oz. These clowns still don’t get it.

  219. cohenite

    Shut up Cronkite. Just shut up.

    Well, if the thread was not stuffed due to the troll attack it will be now; head prefect is off his meds.

  220. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    Peter you have your view.
    I have mine.

    Not really, Stackja.
    I have history to work with.
    You have hero worship to adhere to.

  221. Bruce of Newcastle:

    No wonder Germany has been increasingly moribund lately.

    All the blame is being put on the electricity retailers.

    “The largest block on the electricity bill, however, are taxes, levies and allocations, which account for more than half of the total price.” One major price driver are the mandatory, exorbitantly high green energy feed-in tariffs that grid operators are forced to pay.”

    So Germany, which is watching itself move into a recession due to crippling energy costs, could have 15cents/Kwh electricity. But the Government refuses to allow this to happen.
    Germany’s government then, is creating a recession – just like Australia.

  222. Eyrie

    JC, agree, Abbott was and is a dick. I hope his loss to Steggall eats at his guts.

  223. stackja

    Peter – I don’t worship anyone but Jesus. History writers are not always right.

  224. stackja

    Seems TA is disliked by some here.
    I am shocked!

  225. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    cohenite – JH was convinced by ‘science’.

    Aah – The Maggie Thatcher “defence”.
    Do you think Little Johnny will recant on his deathbed too?

  226. jupes

    THE MOCKER

    Top shelf! Thanks for that TE.

  227. JC

    Even Abbott’s closure of the domestic car industry was phony left bullshit. Those carworkers are still on compensation and we still have import duties to protect a car industry that was closed down. THE FUCK!

    Abbott was the biggest phony that ever existed.

  228. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I find it offensive that the 31st nations can hunt animals as a cultural right which is what this dipshit is hiding behind.

    I’m finding it a joke when the “elders” of the 31st Nations can’t agree as to whether he was culturally right or not.

  229. zyconoclast

    Abbott was the biggest phony that ever existed.

    He was big but not the biggest phony.
    He is not good enough to earn that title.

  230. Bubbles

    Which of the vast number of Australian UN trough feeding women directed Michelle Bachelet come to Oz to talk shit; Burrow; Gillard; Triggs; – the list of Greens directed traitors goes on for ever.

    Of course, it could well have been organised by one of our very own Government agencies.

  231. bespoke

    Good to hear Peter. Just don,t let let this plas distract you from what matters.

  232. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    I don’t worship anyone but Jesus.

    Fair enough, Stackja.
    Unfortunately He seems to be reluctant to get involved in Australian politics.

    History writers are not always right.

    True, Stackja.
    History writers often get it wrong.
    However, the history itself remains carved in stone.

  233. jupes

    Abbott was the biggest phony that ever existed.

    I find it very hard to believe that anyone is a bigger phony than Krudd.

    Remember that photo of the twit holding the ankle of a victim of Qld floods? (I can’t find it on the internet. It appears to have disappeared down the memory hole).

  234. candy

    Abbott was the biggest phony that ever existed.

    JC you and Prof D are still very annoyed him for Morrison deposing M. Turnbull methinks.

    Turnbull is more your style of chap and for Prof. D too. He did bring in SSM and started the bank bashing, you know. Both very lefty things.

  235. Black Ball

    Good afternoon all.
    Jupes I tried to open your link on Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti and I got a WordPress site. Nothing with his name in a search cropped up. Would be interested to read this matter in more depth. If what you say is true, then the AFL can go fornicate themselves.
    Just on the football, I note in yesterday’s Hun an article by Colin Vickery that television audience numbers for both grand finals dropped 20 percent from the previous year. Don’t be surprised one iota if the punters (HT Knuckle Dragger) have had enough of the social justice warriors running the show ramming every perceived I’ll down the throats.

  236. JC

    I find it very hard to believe that anyone is a bigger phony than Krudd.

    I’m perfectly okay with that correction as I didn’t state the obvious. It’s a given for left wingers. In fact it’s redundant to even make the claim about anyone on the left being a phony, dishonest sack of shit. Why state the obvious, right? 🙂

  237. Peter, formerly known as Memoryvault

    I’ll down the throats.

    Deepthroat?

  238. jupes

    Good stuff from Peter Dutton:

    I*l*mic State brides in Syria could cause ‘mass casualty’ attack in Australia if rescued, Peter Dutton says

    Peter Dutton said he had received advice that some of the women were as “hardcore” as the male Islamic State fighters they spent time with.

    “These are people that would, in our judgement — not all of them but some of them — have the potential and capacity to come back here and cause a mass casualty event,” Mr Dutton told 2GB.

    “So I don’t think it should come as a surprise when we say we’re not going to send our soldiers to rescue people of this nature.”

    The Home Affairs Department has confirmed at least 17 dual-nationals who fled Australia to join IS have been stripped of their citizenship, but they declined to identify all the individuals affected.

    Now we need the SFL government to unite behind Dutton.

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