A hoax and a scam

We just get used to it but these people on the left, these people in the media, these socialist nobodies, wish to overturn the democratic process. They should be put in jail. Not only are these people corrupt to the core, not only are these people ignorant, not only are they attempting to overturn our political system, they are as incompetent in their inability to make sound policy as it is possible to be. We treat much of this like a joke, but that is only because they have been unsuccessful. In fact, they have only been partly unsuccessful. They should be treated as the traitorous scum they actually are.

AND LET ME ADD THIS about the person the left is trying to overturn as president: Trump will lead the NYC parade he saved. The Democrats are soul-sick and vermin. Their leading presidential candidates are policy fools with not a single moral scruple between them. They are liars and thieves, all of which is known. But this is the real Donald Trump, with a story that goes back to 1995 when he was not running for anything.

In August 1995, organizers for the annual Veterans Day Parade in New York City looked at how much money they had three months before the big day.

$1.21.

The New York Times reported, “A request to airlines to donate blankets for aging veterans was turned down because logos might not be visible on television.”

Wow.

The Times reported, “Then Donald Trump, a non-veteran, agreed to throw in $200,000 as well as raise money from his friends, in exchange for being named grand marshal.”

In short order, they had $2.4 million, saving the parade and the city’s honor.

On Veterans Day 1995, United Press International reported, “More than 500,000 people jammed the sidewalks of Manhattan’s Fifth Avenue Saturday to watch three generations of veterans march in the Nation’s Parade. The crowd cheered as 25,000 veterans marched in one of the last national events marking the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II. The mood of the parade was festive despite the blustery weather, with marching veterans smiling and onlookers shouting ‘Thank you.'”

The story also said, “Organizers, who placed the turnout at closer to a million, said the parade would not have been a success if it hadn’t been for real estate developer Donald Trump, who contributed $200,000.

“‘Donald Trump saved the parade,’ said parade director Tom Fox, himself a Vietnam veteran. ‘We had asked for donations from 200 corporations, and none of them came through,’ he said.

“‘This donation is the single most important thing I’ve ever done,’ said a beaming Trump. ‘This is more important than all of my buildings and my casinos. This is my way of saying thank you to all the men and women in the armed services who have made it possible for me to become a success. Without them freedom and liberty would be gone.'”

And now it is without Donald Trump freedom and liberty would be gone. We live in very dangerous times.

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36 Responses to A hoax and a scam

  1. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Hold on a second. Clinton received 2.8 million more votes in the 2016 popular poll than Trump did, that’s a fact as far as anyone can tell. That by itself didn’t put Clinton in the Whitehouse because the USA is not a Democracy it is a Republic and the Electoral College delegates are not absolutely bound to vote in a way that reflects the democratic poll. Same thing happend to Al Gore and Dubya in 2000, where Gore got 600,000 more votes in the popular poll than Bush, but Bush was appointed by the EC.
    Be accurate in your argument. It’s not democracy they are trying to overturn, it’s an attempt to overturn the result of the same electoral college process that every other president was appointed by.

  2. Tom

    And now it is without Donald Trump freedom and liberty would be gone. We live in very dangerous times.

    Don’t get ahead of yourself, Steve. This is playing out in real time. Ordinary people can see what’s happening. They are not stupid.

  3. Old School Conservative

    the USA is not a Democracy it is a Republic

    Americans are entitled to vote in free elections. That makes it a democracy.
    Americans have a system of representation which makes it a democracy.
    Supreme power is vested in the people. That makes it a democracy.

    The positions of power within the Republic are determined by democratic processes.

  4. Oh come on

    Berka, you’re splitting hairs.

  5. Jo Smyth

    Berka , you are doing what those who hate democracy always do – talk a load of rubbish.

  6. littledozer

    Be accurate in your argument.

    Wisconsin – Clinton never visited the state during the general election campaign, while Trump visited six times. On election day, Trump ended up carrying the state by almost one point, a difference of nine points from pre-election polling.

    Over the final 100 days of the election, Trump made a total of 133 visits to Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan and Wisconsin. Over the same time period, Hillary Clinton visited the first five of those states a total of 87 times.

    Trump out-campaigned Clinton by 30 percent in Florida, winning by 1.3 points a state that had gone Democratic in 2008 and 2012.

    In Pennsylvania, Trump made 23 percent more visits and won the previously blue state by 1.2 points.

    The biggest disparity came in Ohio, where Clinton made 17 stops and Trump made 26. He won the state by more than 8 points. In North Carolina, Clinton made 16 stops as Trump made 23, and he took the state by a little under 4 points.

    That sir, is democracy at work

  7. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Jo, it seems OCO disagrees with you. What I wrote is technically correct, as the candidate and party that the most number of people voted for (the demos) was not the person who received power (the cratos). OCO is simply miffed that I’m highlighting this inconvenient fact in a context in which it is apparently not important, but has not said it is a load of rubbish (because it isn’t). Your own attempt to distract from the issue by trash-talking me personally is simply a sign you are unable to address the substantive point. It is a distraction tactic which didn’t work.

    As for OCO’s implication that the Republicanness or Democraticality of the USA is not a distinction relevant to Kates’ overall point, okay fair enough it was a nitpick, then one then has to wonder why Steve brought it up at all in the first place – and got the fact incorrect to boot.

    What would be wrong with simply saying: “The Democrats didn’t get the power their polling had predicted, but instead of reforming the institution that was responsible for this discrepancy, or giving better arguments prior to election day, or fielding more likeable candidates as options, they instead want special treatment for this one President and will stoop to any despicable level to get their way without going through an election again. This unwillingness to face the people again in a fair fight while inventing hoax smears about the President borders on a coup and a betrayal. Trump did good things for his city in the past and we should expect him to keep doing so for his country. It is sad that the regulatory reforms and cultural revival of the USA that Trump represents is simply lost on these nasty authoritarians in their desperate lust for power.”

    Okay not quite as energetic as Kates said it, but it gets his overall point across without overstating the role of democracy in the POTUS elections.

  8. JC

    Steve

    And now it is without Donald Trump freedom and liberty would be gone. We live in very dangerous times.

    Steve, that’s a little hyper- bowlic, no? 🙂

  9. Mother Lode

    The Hildebeest only became Democrat candidate through non-democratic process: The super-delegates voted for her against the overwhelmingly more numerous support for Sanders.

  10. Perfidious Albino

    We’re all prepared to believe there were no illegal votes counted in the popular vote though, right?

  11. Trump lost the popular vote yes, but do you trust Dem. scrutineers and dead people?

    That’s also why you can’t assume “Trump’s gonna win!”.

    If you think 2016 was underhanded and slimy, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

    Hillary wasn’t far off, she only needed to win a few more States with a close margin.

    She nearly stole that election like how Gillard stole the 2010 election with a mere 20,000 fraudulent votes.

  12. Iampeter

    We just get used to it but these people on the left, these people in the media, these socialist nobodies, wish to overturn the democratic process. They should be put in jail. Not only are these people corrupt to the core, not only are these people ignorant, not only are they attempting to overturn our political system, they are as incompetent in their inability to make sound policy as it is possible to be.

    You could’ve just said “Trump and his supporters.”

    They should be treated as the traitorous scum they actually are.

    That’s what all the impeachment proceedings are aiming to do.

  13. Mother Lode

    Democracy, of course, has a broader meaning that just ‘one man one vote’. ‘One man one vote’ sounds ideal, but there is the danger of a bunch of ‘one mans’ being able to tyrannise over another – the classic case being big cities over rural voters. The big cities would be able to negate rural votes by sheer numbers, and we can immediately see there is something anti-democratic there.

    It is why the American and Australian governments are set up as they are.

    Goolag gives multiple definitions of democracy all of which reflect aspects of what we intuitively recognise as democratic. This is not a scientific unit with a single immutable definition any more than the words ‘happy’ or ‘funny’ or ‘justice’, yet there is remarkable agreement in what they are.

    Interestingly ancient Athens which is often held up as an ideal of democracy (only free men – no universal suffrage there) also had to deal with the fact that the city demes would dominate the coastal and inland demes so they created new demes each of which contained a mix of people from the city, the coast, and the plain. This worked because they were all within easy travelling distance.

    These days that is not really an option.

  14. Regarding the democracy/republic discussion;
    The US is a federation. The democracy part applies to the States i.e. the 50 states democratically elect the president.
    At the polling booth, individuals don’t vote for a president directly. They vote for an electoral college member who then goes to a convention to vote for a president.
    Just like Australians don’t vote directly for a PM. We vote for a representative who then votes for a PM.

    In summary; Every state exercises democracy in electing their local, state and national representatives. The national reps go on to elect a president.

    It is from all angles democratic and this argument (which Americans themselves make a lot) that USA is a republic and not a democracy is silly and wrong.
    The US is a democratic republic.

  15. Shy Ted

    They should be treated as the traitorous scum they actually are.
    Let’s hope they are. My best guess is that there will be a flood of serious charges leading up to the 2020 election. All in the timing.

  16. Bad Samaritan

    Colonel. we already know there was a court challenge to Trump’s victories in a number of states (paid for by Hillary: brought by Jill Stein the Greens Candidate). Recounts were ordered, and then begun….

    However, as it quickly emerged that the Dems numbers in Michigan (the state with the “closest” losing margin) were fraudulently inflated, the dems called the recount off.

    This tells every normal person all they need to know about the “popular vote”, and even more about your gullibility. You’ve been suckered by your idols, or else you’re helping do the suckering. Which is it?

  17. Iampeter

    Democracy is rule of the majority and is a terrible form of government.
    A Republic is a form of government where the state is restricted to it’s proper function and to the extent voting is used it is done as just another check on the government.
    A Republic is not about who the head of state is, nor how, or if, elections are held.
    America has not been a federation since the Constitution became the law of the land. At this point America became a Republic.

    Today knowledge of political theory is pretty much nonexistent. It’s a dead science even more so than economics. As a result America is becoming more and more of a democracy.
    The next stage after democracy will be anarchy.
    And the final stage after anarchy will be dictatorship.

    Trump and his mindless supporters are helping move things in this direction and are as much the enemy of America, Republican/Constitutional government and the West in general as any progressive.

  18. Mother Lode

    I must admit that I agree with part of what OmPoida says above:

    mindless

    Of course, I am taking it as a confession, not as a statement regarding anyone else.

  19. Tim Neilson

    Colonel Crispin Berka
    #3205313, posted on November 7, 2019 at 11:59 pm

    So presumably Australia’s not a democracy because it’s possible for someone to become PM with less than 50% of the 2PP, as Hawke did in 1990 and Howard did in 1998?

  20. Tim Neilson

    Colonel Crispin Berka
    #3205313, posted on November 7, 2019 at 11:59 pm

    The UK mustn’t be much of a democracy either – at the last election the Conservatives and the DUP between them got 37.5%of the votes cast but were able to form a government.

  21. bollux

    Berka,
    Don’t forget the 20 million illegal votes either. We are all selective in our arguments. If Gore had been successful, we would have had Trump much sooner. The Democrats just believed their own spin and “miscalculated” how many votes they had to “find” after election day.

  22. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Bad Samaritan, that hypothesis is not making any sense to me, it is self-contradictory. You are suggesting that Clinton’s team rigged the popular poll, and then asked for recounts which would be more likely to have the effect of exposing their own skulduggery than anything else. It doesn’t help your case that Trump’s own commission on the issue compiled a report which “do not contain evidence of widespread voter fraud”.

    The recount was stopped on the technicality that because the person who requested it had no chance of winning, the recount should not have begun. The statement by the judge that there was no evidence of fraud was putting the cart before the horse, because a recount is the only process that would prove if rigging had occurred. The evidence that made people suspicious was differences between pre-election polling and final count, plus several cases of improper handling of the ballots. The key is whether this was large enough to actually affect the rank outcome.

    On the matter of Michigan, it’s hardly a clear case of fraud when in Detroit for example of all the counties which had any discrepancy, 248 counties had more votes than pollsters, and in the other 144 counties (37%) there were fewer votes than pollsters. This is hardly a clear cut case of ballot stuffing, as ballot stuffing does not add people or subtract votes.
    The leading explanation for these cases is that the votes were tallied correctly (by machine) but the number of people who voted had not been counted (by hand) correctly on the day.

    The final nail in your conspiracy coffin is that the recount in Michigan was not ended when “it emerged that the Dems numbers in Michigan were fraudulently inflated”, because the intermediate result up until the recount was terminated was that Hillary Clinton gained 106 votes from the recount – showing the Democrats’ original tally was slightly undercounted and not “inflated”. The facts are the opposite of your claims.

    Should I give you a lecture about your gullibility at this point, or can we just skip that and agree that the Americans do not have a secure voting system capable of giving authentic results and the sooner the Democrats stop blocking voter I.D. reforms the sooner we’ll all stop having these pointless speculative arguments.

  23. Colonel Crispin Berka

    My reply to Bad Samaritan is stuck in moderation for having too many links.

    In the meantime I will just point out to Tim Neilson that an election which claims to appoint the USA President (and which in fact takes place inside the Electoral College and not directly from The People) is not at all the same as the case of an election which only claims to put 1 of 150 MPs into Parliament and does not even pretend to decide who will compose the executive government nor lead it in the final wash. Pretending the Westminster system and the USA Executive were the same process is comparing apples and orangemen.

  24. Tim Neilson

    and does not even pretend to decide who will compose the executive government nor lead it in the final wash

    So how is it decided “who will compose the executive government …[and] lead it in the final wash”?

    Oh, that’s right – a majority on the floor of the House of Reps.

    Just like it’s a majority of the Electoral College which decides who’s the President in the USA.

    When you’re reduced to suggesting that a House of Reps election doesn’t decide control of our executive government you’ve clearly abandoned veracity.

  25. herodotus

    Tom: Ordinary people can see what’s happening. They are not stupid.
    Why have they got a Democrat lower house?
    All this stupidity of “impeachment” could have been avoided if the ordinary people had voted sensibly.
    That’s also an issue here with Victoria and Queensland. Labor gets more than it deserves in state governments, despite the “not stupid” theory.
    Media plays a role, but inattention must be part of the mix.

  26. Iampeter
    #3205523, posted on November 8, 2019 at 10:12 am

    America has not been a federation since the Constitution became the law of the land. At this point America became a Republic.

    Oh brother!

    A federation (also known as a federal state) is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing provinces, states, or other regions under a central federal government (federalism).

    Here is a link showing all the Federated nation states across the globe

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation

    I mean, the clue is right there when people refer to the Government in Washington as the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

    You keep spouting nonsense.

  27. Frank Walker:

    If you think 2016 was underhanded and slimy, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

    You are so right. This election has all the makings of a disaster for the Democrats – up to and including gaol sentences for members of the Swamp.
    So all the stops will be pulled out on the Democrat Vote Rigging scheme. It would be reassuring for President Trump to have a major law enforcement presence at the polling booths, and a blue thumb approach to reduce the voting irregularities. I don’t really have an answer for the enrollment corruption in the US electoral process.

  28. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Tim.
    This was all unnecessarily heated anyway because I stuffed up my first statement which was literally not what I meant to say. Kates was talking about the POTUS. I was also talking about the POTUS. I didn’t mean the USA in total was not a democracy, I meant the USA President election is not a democracy because the people may not get the outcome they mostly voted for. That is in fact what happened, and not what a democratic election does (either direct or representative).

    Australians who voted for a candidate who won their seat may still not end up with their representative being part of government. This is not the same as being totally powerless because they still have a parliamentary vote, which is why the whole scheme is still a (representative) democracy. But the people obviously do not vote for someone to be part of government – otherwise every candidate who won their election would be part of government and there wouldn’t be an Opposition.

    It’s an observable fact that “a House of Reps election doesn’t decide control of our executive government”. Deals amongst the MPs determines who forms government, and most of the time that is pre-determined by party membership and is foreseeable by the voter – but not always. You may remember how many times porkbarreling and back room deals have decided government composition long after the election is over. Do the names Windsor, Oakeshott, and Wilkie mean nothing to you? Then there was the RGR fiasco, where a new Prime Minister was decided by one party’s vote not by all MPs nor by the public. Then there’s the subset of government MPs that form the executive Cabinet, which is again decided NOT by the people’s vote, and not even by all the government’s MPs, but effectively by only the leader of the most popular party, the Prime Minister, who can use any method at all to select the names. The governing majority, and the Prime Minister, and the cabinet, are therefore finally decided by MPs’ personal choices and political deals, not by the people’s original democratic vote.

    And the POTUS election is none of that. The loser doesn’t get 47% of the chair in the Oval Office, it is all or nothing. Campaigning in all the states is just democracy theatre when it does not actually decide the final outcome. The people believe they are deciding on an individual President when they aren’t, otherwise Clinton would be President.

  29. Iampeter
    #3205523, posted on November 8, 2019 at 10:12 am

    Democracy is rule of the majority and is a terrible form of government.
    A Republic is a form of government where the state is restricted to it’s proper function and to the extent voting is used it is done as just another check on the government.
    A Republic is not about who the head of state is, nor how, or if, elections are held.
    America has not been a federation since the Constitution became the law of the land. At this point America became a Republic.

    Peter, you need to be clearer in your taxonomy.

    You are conflating democracy, confederalism, Federalism, republicanism and the decline of Federalism vis a vis the centralising tendencies of “Federalists” (centralist) such as Hamilton, versus the “anti-Federalists” (federalist) tendencies of Jefferson for example.

    You can’t carry on like the only person with a clue if you can’t get this middle school US history stuff right.

  30. Iampeter

    You keep spouting nonsense.

    You didn’t understand a thing I said.

    You are conflating democracy, confederalism, Federalism, republicanism and the decline of Federalism vis a vis the centralising tendencies of “Federalists” (centralist) such as Hamilton, versus the “anti-Federalists” (federalist) tendencies of Jefferson for example.

    No I’m not. The whole point of my post was to NOT conflate these things, which people routinely do as they use these word soups and don’t know what they mean.

  31. NuThink

    But but but I thought it was Russia who decided the outcome of the American election.

  32. Tel

    Democracy is rule of the majority and is a terrible form of government.

    Until you have tried the others.

  33. Iampeter

    Democracy is rule of the majority and is a terrible form of government.

    Until you have tried the others.

    No, until you learn political theory and understand that a republic is the correct form of government for humans and why that is.

    But good Churchill quote. Political discussions are all about seeing who can cram in more random word salads and random quotes.

  34. No I’m not. The whole point of my post was to NOT conflate these things, which people routinely do as they use these word soups and don’t know what they mean.

    You really need to work on your written communication skills. Your outcome was the opposiute of what you aimed for.

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