From the people who brought you the George Pell prosecution

Bourke Street inquest hears James Gargasoulas got bail after police officer ticked wrong boxes on form.

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40 Responses to From the people who brought you the George Pell prosecution

  1. JC

    You reckon that’s true or it’s bullshit because an “honest mistake” is considered better than the alternative – letting out dangerous loons because the cops or parole board are leftwing arseholes?

    I wouldn’t accept the honest mistake routine at face value.

  2. David Brewer

    I wouldn’t accept the honest mistake routine at face value.

    Quite. You are asked six questions like “Is this person a clear and present danger to the public?” on a legal document and you, a trained officer, “accidently” answer “no” instead of “yes” to each question? Give me a break.

    The witness HCP also needs their head examined. Texting a detective in the middle of the night instead of ringing 000 when the perp went berserk? OK, HCP was in shock, but why the heck didn’t s/he do something else when the tec did not reply?

  3. No one with significant rank is falling on their sword.

    Just like Man Monis all over again.

    A good ruler like Louis XI would have the (high) officials responsible sent to the front line against the Burgundians, or at least in tumbrils.

    We have Dan Andrews.

    A clueless, spineless union puppet. Or do I mean muppet?

    Historically speaking, a ruler who is so unjust that they think of the murder of their citizens so flippantly, can not even rate as a joke among footnotes.

  4. areff

    parole board

    It wasn’t a parole board call, JC. He was turned lose by a JP doing an after hours fill-in job.

    That said, a copper who spoken with him days earlier tried to stop the release but was too late.

    The worst indictment of the wallopers is the video below, which captures citizens trying to stop Gargasoulas while the cops just stand there. “There’s cops there!”, screams the citizen’s girlfriend.

    Fat lot of good they did.

  5. Knuckle Dragger

    Part I

    Agreed, areff. Fat lot of good they did indeed, at least until it was too late.

    It’s not really an excuse for them to say they had the brass screeching at them over the radio to do nothing at the intersection (which they were). End of the day – clearly some form of lunatic busting doughnuts at Flinders and Swanston, of all places. Drug-fucked, and/or Radio Rental. Hundreds at risk.

    In these circumstances, in my very humble opinion, you are faced with two options. Protect the punters you’re paid to protect, and if you ram the crook into a pedestrian or two taking him out you say sorry and pay their bills.

    Or you can stick with compliance with policy and procedure, despite this type of thing not landing anywhere near the scope of anything the Vicco coppers have. At the risk of cross-continental bravado, I’d like to think I know which course to take.

  6. Knuckle Dragger

    Part II.

    The out of sessions bail hearing. These are a sitting of the court held outside their normal hours, hence the ‘out of sessions’ bit. Being a bail hearing the standard of proof you need when presenting your case isn’t the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ required for criminal matters.

    The young feller Semmel appears to be an identified up and comer from uniform taken under the wing of a CIB office for ‘temps’ for three or six months or whatever. Uniformed coppers, when in uniform don’t do bail hearings of this type except in exceptional circumstances.

    The earlier charges presented at the hearing would have already been in existence, so it’s just a matter of printing them out off the system. These ones, relating to stabbing his family and all manner of other lunacy, combined with his self-identified mentalness, woeful drug use and shocking priors make this the biggest and best walk up start in history.

    Or should have.

  7. stackja

    Victoria police also brought you NG, Lawyer X.
    They might dodge this. But how many knew about NG, Lawyer X?

  8. C.L.

    I wonder how much of this is driven by the presence in such situations of female police officers – indeed, by their presence in the force generally. I would say, a lot. They have to be protected before male officers can protect the public. Thirty years ago a police car at that intersection would have had two willing blokes in it. They would have rammed him as he hung out the window, then shot the bastard for good measure.

  9. Robbo

    Not only riddled with corruption but also grossly incompetent. It all started when a Labor Party government imported Christine Nixon from NSW to head the Victoria Police. She then doubled down by giving Simon Overland the job as her deputy. Those two dragged the once efficient and honest organisation down into the gutter and under one of their trusted acolytes, the present Chief Commissioner Graeme Ashton it has plunged down even further. The Bourke Street disgrace is symbolic of a Police force that has surrendered to criminals. If you are unfortunate enough to have your home invaded and you call 000 don’t hold your breath waiting for the police to arrive. In Victoria the Police are good at harassing motorists who they see driving a few kilometres over the limit but anything else appears to be a bit too difficult for them. Victoria Police are badly led and it is no wonder that the rank and file coppers do no more than they have to. The Andrews Government doesn’t seem to give a jot and the big question is what will it take before they make the changes that are needed to return this once great organisation to a Force to be reckoned with?

  10. areff

    KD: You can’t really blame the cops. Look at the grief visited up the cops who’ve been proactive in the “African Gangs” arena.

    Remember the poor buggers who stopped the carload of Dark Continent miscreants, were then accused of racism (even though one of the officers copped a whack in the nuts) and the whole thing ended up with VicPol apologising and paying each of the oppressed youths a reported $80k.

    So, if I’m a cop and I know the brass are going to throw me over, it’s ‘enjoy your CBD excursion, Mr Gargasoulas’.

  11. areff

    The Andrews Government doesn’t seem to give a jot and the big question is what will it take before they make the changes that are needed to return this once great organisation to a Force to be reckoned with?

    All true. But did you hear more than a pro forma peep out of the opposition? Nope. Supine invertebrates.

    Could we dig up Henry Bolte and clone him?

  12. Knuckle Dragger

    Part III

    The box ticking was (in my view, but not having been there at the time) an honest mistake on the part of the copper The REASON I say this is because all the Vicpol forms on the computer that have leetle boxes on them to tick are pre-ticked in favour of the crook. That’s how they were designed by the pony-tail wearing boffins.

    That is, when you bring up an application for remand form on the system, there are sections on that document that ask you, as the filler-outerer if the crook a risk to the community, a risk of re-offending, a risk of contacting prosecution witnesses and so on. These sections are pre-ticked ‘NO’, and you have to manually untick them and tick ‘YES’.

    These have been missed a million times before, especially if a) you’re not used to filling in these forms, and b) you have an unusually self-important BJ (who are volunteers, but there are some who genuinely think of themselves as unpaid magistrates) and who demand that time is of the essence and could he get home to the night talkback radio show.*

    In any event, which boxes were ticked or not is secondary to the oral evidence given.

    The new charges Gentner was tapping away at, and which he interrupted to run down the stairs to try and save the remand were related to crimes Gargasoulas had admitted to during his interview, that weren’t related to the matter at hand and thus required new charges to be typed out and laid.

    *This may be a reason why the BJ was reluctant to delay the hearing by 10 or 15 minutes, as reported in the infallible meeja.

  13. areff

    Red Shirts scandal:

    Police: Oy, we want to talk to you.

    Labor types: Piss off, copper.

    Police: Well, yes, if you say so.

  14. Knuckle Dragger

    Shit.

    Apologies for the missing little words. Am still trying to gain the ability to type with a Winnie Blue hanging out of my gob.

  15. BrettW

    Talking of VICPOL somebody the other day mentioned former Deputy Commissioner Sir Ken Jones is coming back to give evidence to the Lawyer X commission.

    Looking forward to hear what he has to say. I suspect Simon Overland is not !

  16. Knuckle Dragger

    Part IV (Final)

    The mystery of the unticked boxes has been seized on by the BJ as an excuse to why he admitted the crook to bail in front of the horrified coppers.

    He’s had plenty of time to work on his story, and the fact his mouthpieces are playing on it so much may well be a distraction squirrel hiding the well-known practice of Melbourne BJs with a certain ethnicity giving bail regardless of circumstance to crooks sharing that same background.

  17. Knuckle Dragger

    C.L.:

    ‘I wonder how much of this is driven by the presence in such situations of female police officers – indeed, by their presence in the force generally. I would say, a lot.’

    Yep, yes and affirmative.

    It is an article of faith amongst male coppers (allegedly and apparently) that if one of these waddling unsuitables drags out her spray or baton, you are ten times as likely to be injured and/or incapacitated than the crook.

    Also, they happen to be ten times as likely to report their offsiders for any breach of policy and/or procedure, let alone legislation, thus gaining both some CV cred as adherent to the agency’s values/mission/blah and the certainty that she’ll be in a desk job in a fortnight due to refusals to work with the cowardly bitch.

  18. Knuckle Dragger

    Oh. Should have said.

    Apropos of Parts I to IV – I don’t know Gentner or Semmel at all.

  19. Dr Fred Lenin

    A serving NSW senior detective told my mate and I that when Nixon left to come to Victoria ,there was a huge going away party at Sydney HQ Nixon was not invited the comical coppers , AFP , were similarly happy when creepy clerk Overland succeded her . Neither of them were real Coppers just time serving aparatchiks .

  20. Knuckle Dragger

    Played golf once with a Fed copper, some years back when Overland ‘Call me Simon’ had just got the big chair.

    Asked him if he knew Overland just after teeing off on the back nine.

    There followed three full holes of unsolicited expletives and vocal displeasure of anything to do with him, who this chap described as a rat who’d drown his own mother to get ahead in the organisation, and that his entire career from the rank of Sergeant up was heavily sponsored by the Layba Pardeee.

  21. Old Lefty

    By contrast, the admirable Justice Weinberg ( in person, I’m told, the most decent of men) had no hesitation in giving Gargasoulas 46 years without parole.

  22. Old Lefty

    Ashton’s job application was his appearance at the Victorian parliamentary inquiry into abuse in religious institutions (only religious institutions, if course, not the Stalinist comrades in the state teachers’ unions. He memorably said that the Catholic church had never referred a single case to the police, only to be contradicted by evidence that the Q C running Towards Healing had referred over 90.

    But the perjury was nevertheless enough to persuade Comrade Andrews to elevate him from deputy to Commissioner. He repaid the favour by appointing Andrews’ former chief of staff as his own.

  23. Siltstone

    Imagine if you were in an industrial workplace and you ticked off a piece of equipment as “Ok to go” without any due diligence and soon after the equipment failed, killing 6 people. Manslaughter charge perhaps? In Victoria, the plod will get promoted.

  24. Siltstone

    Imagine if you were in an industrial workplace and you ticked off a piece of equipment as “Ok to go” without any due diligence and soon after the equipment failed, killing 6 people. Manslaughter charge perhaps? In Victoria, the plod will get promoted.

  25. mem

    But the perjury was nevertheless enough to persuade Comrade Andrews to elevate him from deputy to Commissioner. He repaid the favour by appointing Andrews’ former chief of staff as his own.

    And that is how it works in the Labor Party. Take a hit and get a promotion. Tell a big enough lie for the “cause” and get a gong and a sinecure.

  26. Boambee John

    While the so-called “chain of responsibility” system is a nanny state drag on reasonable peopke, I can see significant benefit in applying it to politicians and the bureaucracy.

    I wonder which senior sir would have been happy to tick the relevant box to take personal responsibility in relation to either the bail application (development of the pre-ticked boxes on the form) or not stopping Garglearse earlier on the day, before he got to Bourke St.

  27. candy

    I would not accept the “honest mistake” thing either.
    But definitely a police officer in dealing with a person of colour or certain religion etc. will be terrified of being called racist in certain situations, no matter how violent the offender.

  28. faceache

    50 years ago my Sergeant said to me, “Constable, you are not a f****** social worker.” And thank God I took it on board.

  29. Ashton’s job application was his appearance at the Victorian parliamentary inquiry into abuse in religious institutions (only religious institutions, if course, not the Stalinist comrades in the state teachers’ unions. He memorably said that the Catholic church had never referred a single case to the police, only to be contradicted by evidence that the Q C running Towards Healing had referred over 90.

    Fatty Ashton should be in gaol.

    With the Lawyer X inquiry, who knows what will happen in the antipodean Mogadishu.

  30. Leigh Lowe

    The worst indictment of the wallopers is the video below, which captures citizens trying to stop Gargasoulas while the cops just stand there. “There’s cops there!”, screams the citizen’s girlfriend.

    Fat lot of good they did.

    I remember watching the Swanston/Flinders doughnut show on the news that night.
    Seeing the three grey commodores parked in the east-bound lane and tram-stop in Flinders St then trailing him up Swanston St.
    I think my exact words were, “What the fuck! The coppers just followed him up Swanston St like floats in a fucking Moomba parade”.

  31. Tel

    I wouldn’t accept the honest mistake routine at face value.

    Can’t remember who explained this … but if all these strange events were merely the result of random happenstance, then you would expect that now and then, a few would fall in our favour.

  32. Leigh Lowe

    Talking of VICPOL somebody the other day mentioned former Deputy Commissioner Sir Ken Jones is coming back to give evidence to the Lawyer X commission.

    Looking forward to hear what he has to say. I suspect Simon Overland is not !

    Was in the Hun the other day.
    My undeestanding is that Jones had a look at the cluster-fuck that VikPol was and bailed.
    Simple Simon and Christine “I had to eat” Nixon will not enjoy Sir Kenny’s time in the box.
    So far it has been wall-to-wall club members sticking to the narrative.
    Watch for the Age/ABC hatchet job on Kenny coming up soon.

  33. areff

    Twelve years ago, VicPol’s toxic palace politics was bad enough. Remember this?

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/another-senior-cop-suspended-20071113-ge6ahc.html

    Overland was in the thick of it. angling and scheming to fill Big Kev’s shoes and white ant his rivals.

    Hasn’t got any better, not at all

  34. C.L.

    Simon Overland.

    Christine Nixon.

    Can you see where this theme was heading?

  35. Up The Workers!

    This latest bit of gillarding about how a member of the Labor Police Farce made the incredible mistake of ticking the wrong box on the bail form – not once, twice, three, four or five, but SIX times in a row, has all the credibility of all those jail warders in New York who coincidentally called in sick or fell asleep the night that all the relevant surveillance cameras in that part of the jail miraculously and simultaneously went on the blink, just when Jeffrey Epstein, the most important, high-profile prisoner in the U.S.A., “Arkancided” himself – just like the 50 or 60 other victims before him.

    You’d have to be stupid enough to believe in gerbil worming and rising sea levels and bushfires being started by all the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, to be gullible enough to believe in the gillarding the Left peddles.

  36. I’m still astounded how in Victoriastan (Antipodes Somalia) that:

    1. A complainant can keep on lying and changing their story until it seems plausible, each time making a solemn statement that is an offence to lie about.
    2. They can perjure themselves during a committal.
    3. Senior cops can blatantly lie to Parliamentary committees under oath.
    4. No one with brass or a jabot nor a tippet is taking responsibility for the Gargasoulas thing.
    5. Some morbidly obese diversity hire can absolve herself of responsibility because she claims to be a victim of her own gluttony. Fatty dined, people died!

    With respect to 4. and 5., and I mean this solemnly and without any ill will, but in prior times, people would have killed themselves out of shame. As in downing half a bottle of scotch and then blasting their noggin to kick their oxygen addiction, using their service issued .455 Webley.

  37. Lee

    No one with significant rank is falling on their sword.

    Just like Man Monis all over again.

    After the Lindt café siege, and deaths of two innocent people, I was utterly revolted by the senior N.S.W. police officer who said something to the effect that “the police were concerned for safety of all the people in the café, including Monis.”

    With all disrespect to the officer, the police should only be concerned for the safety of victims or innocent bystanders.

    Terrorists or crims abrogate all their rights or considerations under such circumstances,

  38. Politenessman

    These are the people to whom we entrust our safety and they can’t even fill out a basic form.

    In light of this established fact, can we have castle doctrine and self defence laws now?

  39. John A

    the once efficient and honest organisation

    Robbo, don’t forget that there have been earlier bouts of corruption in VicPol.

    It seems to come about once per generation.

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