The New Diocletians

Here is one of the most important and least acknowledged truths of the age: in the contemporary West the most persecuted group by far is Christians. Every doctrinaire left-wing ‘progressive’ who hears that truth asserted will immediately go into a theatrical rage, of course. What about gays, women, transsexuals and ‘people of colour,’ they would ask. What about them? Are their lives always easy? No. Are they sometimes victims of unfair discrimination and even cruelty? No doubt. But they are not victims of state persecution. Quite the contrary. Western governments go to extreme lengths to provide them with every conceivable protection and indulgence. Here is a current selection of reports from around the world with a binding theme:

Tragic to relate, Australia leads the Anglophone world in anti-Christian hate-mongering. Alone, the rigged prosecution of Cardinal Pell has no equal anywhere. What has grown out of the frenzy surrounding his imprisonment, however, may be even worse. One after another, state governments have passed laws banning the Catholic Church from administering a sacrament – penance (or Confession) – according to its ancient, deeply held theological tenets. An attack on a sacrament is something new and sinister in modern history.

Politicians and their advisers know these laws are nonsense and that priests will ignore them anyway (as they should). Who would inform police such a confession was made? You guessed it: only the molester. Is that likely? No. If he did, though, why would he tell them he formerly confessed his crimes to a priest? For only one reason: because he had been arrested and charged for molestation and was trying to plea-bargain using a psychology angle. In other words, the only possible witness against a priest in any trial would be a child molester. In Australia today – especially Victoria – that’s good enough. The new laws haven’t been passed to protect children. No, their sole purpose is to incite hatred of Catholics. Bishops and elders of all denominations have to start acting together to fight back before what remains of their heritage is lost.

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80 Responses to The New Diocletians

  1. FelixKruell

    There are consequences to abusing your power when you have it…

    I agree plenty of anti-Christian sentiment and laws being passed now. In theory I disagree with a lot of them. But my outrage is tempered a little by knowing what came before.

  2. There are consequences to abusing your power when you have it…

    What power has the Catholic church abused since after 1798?

    Australia only had protestant ministers of religion until 1800.

    Your comment cannot make any sense at all Felix.

  3. stackja

    2 Maccabees 7

    A Mother and Her Sons Die for Their Faith

  4. stackja

    Felix, the ever confused poster.

  5. Roger

    Bishops and elders of all denominations have to start acting together to fight back before what remains of their heritage is lost.

    I’m afraid most of the bishops in the two major episcopal church bodies here are mere “company men”, effectively CEO’s of large corporate entities rather than spiritual fathers/bishops shepherding their flocks. They are in denial as to what is happening because they hold to the Constantinian model of church-state relations, in the modern form of which (destined to soon pass away) they are dependant upon the state for finances for their education, health care and aged care empires and they can’t imagine it ever being otherwise. Like kangaroos caught in the headlights of an oncoming semi-trailer, what comes next is not in their lived experience so they can’t imagine it.

    It would be very salutary for them to study what the Bolsheviks did to the Russian church from 1918 through the 1920s.

  6. A Lurker

    When God is outlawed by the State, then the State becomes God and worship becomes mandatory?

  7. FelixKruell

    Frank :

    What power has the Catholic church abused since after 1798?

    I said Christian, not catholic.

    And I was referring to sectarianism, their holding back of widely supported social changes, the refusal to deal with child abusers in their ranks. All pretty well established.

  8. Juan

    One after another, state governments have passed laws banning the Catholic Church from administering a sacrament – penance (or Confession) – according to its ancient, deeply held theological tenets. An attack on a sacrament is something new in modern history.

    I am often told by friends who are self-described “Christians” that “Catholics aren’t Christian”. (If I respond it’s usually to ask them to ponder, based on their own reasoning, how many Christians inhabited the Earth between the end of the 1st Century and the beginning of the 16th!)

    I was reminded of this when you mentioned the seal of the confessional.

    If the Catholic Church is under siege from secularists, on this issue at least they find enthusiastic co-belligerents among various Christians from Baptists to Anglicans and numerous others of the reformed persuasion — for whom principles of religious freedom seemingly don’t extend to religious practices they strongly disagree with.

  9. P

    Pray for suffering Christians – it’s urgent
    Dean of St Mary’s Cathedral Father Don Richardson delivering the Red Wednesday homily
    on 20 November 2019.

    “The Lord Jesus, as we heard in today’s Gospel, moved steadfastly towards Jerusalem, the earthly Jerusalem, where he would suffer and die for our sake. But in doing so, he taught us that our true home is to be found of course in the heavenly Jerusalem. But that does not mean that we don’t seek to live, and to live freely, and proclaim the Gospel, and share it, generously and with humility in this world, while we’re still on this pilgrimage. We should be able to live in freedom.

    So tonight at this Mass let us pray especially for those Christians who are being persecuted – persecution which can take many forms – persecution which we ourselves may experience in a more diluted way in this blessed land.

    But, I think, in this regard we can take nothing for granted.”

  10. Lee

    Who would inform police such a confession was made? You guessed it: only the molester. Is that likely?

    Possibly a left wing activist trouble-maker determined to make a name for him/herself by making a false confession to a priest, then dobbing him/herself into the law to get the priest into serious trouble.

    The answer to that would be for the complainant to be convicted for the “offence” he/she confessed to.

  11. Ellie

    But they are not victims of state persecution

    They use to be persecuted. Praise the lord that they aren’t now!

  12. Ellie

    What about gays, women, transsexuals and ‘people of colour…

    Yes well, it use to be illegal to be a lover of the same sex and women weren’t allowed to vote. Thank god we’ve moved on. But let’s keep your obsession alive in this platform you’ve taken over.

  13. Dr Fred Lenin

    And heres Socialist Bullshit Servers ,SBS ,plugging next years 15 dayPoofter and Lezzo married ass .
    What the Hell are these career political bludgers getting us into ? We need a clean sweep of all governments and the taxpayer funded employees , get this bloody nonsense out and start to Make Australia Great Again . Defund socialism and it dies ,cut out the OPM .
    I see Corbyn is following Shorten and the mad US decromats down the neomarxist hole , the marxist dug pit of despair ,the one they fall into then dtart digging deeper .

  14. Dr Fred Lenin

    I suppose the catholics are getting to know what it feels like to be the persecuted,they should be familiar knowing their history , the inquisition ,opus dei etc etc etc . The word Karma comes to mind .
    If you sweep paedophilia under the rug for generations it comes back to bite you one day,saving the churches good name can lead to its destruction one day .

  15. I am often told by friends who are self-described “Christians” that “Catholics aren’t Christian”. (If I respond it’s usually to ask them to ponder, based on their own reasoning, how many Christians inhabited the Earth between the end of the 1st Century and the beginning of the 16th!)

    I know you didn’t say it Juan, but this protestant meme (the protestants can’t meme anyway) has to die:

    https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-hail-mary-is-in-the-bible

  16. And I was referring to sectarianism, their holding back of widely supported social changes, the refusal to deal with child abusers in their ranks. All pretty well established.

    Weird that you call the public sector teacher unions a religion, but there is some truth in that.

  17. Iampeter

    Every doctrinaire left-wing ‘progressive’ who hears that truth asserted will immediately go into a theatrical rage, of course.

    Just like you’re doing. In this very post. What were you thinking posting this and why is everyone on what is meant to be a Australia’s Leading Right Wing blog not pointing this out?

    Lib Dems deselect Catholic as election candidate.
    Chick-fil-A drops charities after LGBT protests.
    New NY Law Forbids Religious Employers from Firing for Abortion.
    French nun misses out on retirement home place over veil ban.
    New Australian law requires priests to break confessional seal.

    None of those are examples of laws discriminating against Christians. Let me explain something that I know you’re going to struggle with being such a complete collectivist: the only minority that is routinely prosecuted all over the world is the individual. If these laws are violating rights, they are violating individual-rights. Not the non-existent group rights of whatever group you happen to arbitrarily support.
    This is just tribal leftism.

    Not to mention the fact that like most conservatives you have no grounds to oppose any of these laws anyway. They are no different than those leading to the legal issues James Cook Uni, Rugby Australia and countless other organizations face every day.

    You routinely support crap like this. Just not when it affects your collective.

  18. feelthebern

    their holding back of widely supported social changes

    Top 10 stupid comments of all time.

  19. Juan

    This is just tribal leftism.

    I think there’s more at play than tribal leftism and whatever is the opposite to that. How else would you explain social conservative culture warriors in good standing (with other social conservative culture warriors) attacking the seal of the confessional: such as Example 1; and Example 2?

    It seems to me the Catholics are on their own with this one; and just like on George Pell, other Christians are either deafeningly silent or they use these issues as opportunities to settle old scores.

  20. Ellie

    P – let’s pray – if you’re that way inclined – but also try not to be delusional.
    One plus one equals … huh?

  21. pbw

    An attack on a sacrament is something new and sinister in modern history.

    Not quite. Same sex marriage was the first attack on the sacrament. Part of its purpose was to force Catholic priests to conduct homo marriages, or suffer the consequences.

  22. thefrollickingmole

    Who would inform police such a confession was made? You guessed it: only the molester.

    Lee got it in one..

    An ABC reporter sent in to “uncover” the church still covering up for peter-files, worth at least a whole 4 corners show, royal commission & walkley award.

  23. P

    Ellie,
    I cant turn on my speakers as we are having a lot of thunder and lightning here at present and I value them too much. I’ll check it out later.

    I thought of you this morning when I was playing a vid I got from David at theconservativetreehouse
    It’s called “My Heart” (Halev Sheli) it’s about a broken heart and how only he (God) heals it.

  24. Up The Workers!

    Interestingly, all of the abject hatred and persecution of the Catholic Church in particular and Christianity in general, has come from the very same grossly hypocritical Leftard political Party and their taxpayer-funded propaganda orifice which counted Milton “The Molester” Orkopoulos, Keith Wright, Bill D’Arcy, Terry Martin, Bob Collins and Bonking Billy Short-One as senior Parliamentary members.

    Many of the Christian clerics have been vilified had their reputations destroyed and been hounded out of office- not because they molested any children themselves – but because they just happened to be in charge at a time when somebody else was allegedly molesting a child.

    Just who, precisely, was in charge of that particular political Party at a State or Federal level at the various times when the above-named characters were molesting or raping their young victims? Why aren’t those authority-figures in the slammer with so many of their other Party colleagues already in Prison for their various crimes?

    You could hypothetically even lose an “Unloseable Election” by putting up a corruptly-protected child-molester as a candidate – but surely no Party in all Australia would ever do such a thing…would they, Bonking Billy???

    Bonking Billy…..

    (Crickets Chirping…..)

  25. Not quite. Same sex marriage was the first attack on the sacrament. Part of its purpose was to force Catholic priests to conduct homo marriages, or suffer the consequences.

    it would never happen under s 28A of the Sex Discrimination Act 1984…now I say that is by accident, not design though.

  26. Iampeter

    I think there’s more at play than tribal leftism and whatever is the opposite to that. How else would you explain social conservative culture warriors in good standing (with other social conservative culture warriors) attacking the seal of the confessional: such as Example 1; and Example 2?

    I wouldn’t say those are opposing positions.
    Whether you want the state to regulate people because they are Christian or you want special protections because they are Christian you’re doing the same thing. Both are examples of leftist identity politics.

  27. Juan

    I am often told by friends who are self-described “Christians” that “Catholics aren’t Christian”. (If I respond it’s usually to ask them to ponder, based on their own reasoning, how many Christians inhabited the Earth between the end of the 1st Century and the beginning of the 16th!)

    I know you didn’t say it Juan, but this protestant meme (the protestants can’t meme anyway) has to die:

    https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-hail-mary-is-in-the-bible

    Mary seems to be a topic that really riles Protestants, along with confession.

    You might recall a couple of months ago Kyle Sandilands offended quite a few people when he tried to poke fun at the immaculate conception.

    One particular group he offended was Lebanese-Australian Christians who organised protests at KIIS-FM’s studio which they livestreamed. They were smart and recruited other Christians and non-Christians to jointly demand an apology. The demand for an apology and — when Sandilands did apologise — the letter accepting the apology was signed by religious leaders representing the Maronite, Chaldean, Antiochian, Coptic, and Melkite Christian traditions, as well as three Islamic leaders … but not one Protestant of any tradition!

    And here I was thinking Protestants also believed in the Immaculate Conception and Virgin Birth (if not Mary’s perpetual virginity)?

  28. FelixKruell

    Feelthebern:

    Top 10 stupid comments of all time.

    Still waiting for the burn…

  29. Beachcomber

    ……… Australia leads the Anglophone world in anti-Christian hate-mongering.

    This is largely because of the pernicious power of the state-funded behemoth that is the ABC. it will take a Christian conservative uprising in the electorate to de-fund it and shut it down.

  30. Dr Fred Lenin

    The communists persecuted the Russian Orthodox for 70 odd years and as soon as the soviets self destructed ,religion returned instantly soChristianity is a better survivor than Narxist communist globalism .

  31. JC

    Where has CL asked for special protections/priveleges for Christians, Plodes?

    Copy and paste them. GO!

  32. egg_

    When God is outlawed by the State, then the State becomes God and worship becomes mandatory?

    The Green religion preached daily on their ABC.

  33. egg_

    Many of the Christian clerics have been vilified had their reputations destroyed and been hounded out of office- not because they molested any children themselves – but because they just happened to be in charge at a time when somebody else was allegedly molesting a child.

    Wasn’t hypocrite Bungjourno a flatmate of same?

  34. 2dogs

    This is a battle of Will.

    What Muslims are prepared to do in the cause of their religion far exceeds what Christians are prepared to do.

    CL blames governments; but if Christians were as prepared as Muslims are to emigrate to new countries, they could decide which countries to abandon, while shoring up the vote for their values in other countries by moving there.

  35. Roger

    If the Catholic Church is under siege from secularists, on this issue at least they find enthusiastic co-belligerents among various Christians from Baptists to Anglicans and numerous others of the reformed persuasion — for whom principles of religious freedom seemingly don’t extend to religious practices they strongly disagree with.

    Seriously?

    It’s a long, long time – centuries – since any Protestant argued for a confessional state in which Roman Catholics were denied the freedom to practice their religion, juan. The Penal Laws in the UK began to be repealed in the mid to late 1700s.

  36. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Just lay off the Christians, imho. Especially the more traditional ones, i.e. the Roman Catholics. If they are not harming you, then leave them alone. They do good works, have some kindly ideas, such as forgiveness, and have a heritage of fine music. They give many people a secure anchor about redemption in this Satyricon world where anything goes – ok that seems fun and edgey, dress-up make-believe, until it isn’t fun anymore, not live and let live anymore, and tips over that edge into nastiness you’d want your kids to avoid or else becomes political correctness that you can’t speak your mind about when it does turn nasty. Some people really need that anchor provided by religion, Christianity in this society mostly, so why destroy it needlessly with carping on about it?

    Talk about sententious pushy leftism about the sincere and harmless beliefs of others from some of the above. That’s a good point above too about why other hierarchies in society are not asked to be fully responsible for the criminal deeds of their underlings. Goose and gander stuff there too.

    I’m not a Catholic nor even a Christian but sometimes the anti-Christian sentiments that CL is complaining about do rise higher even here than they should in an open society.

  37. egg_

    And heres Socialist Bullshit Servers ,SBS ,plugging next years 15 dayPoofter and Lezzo

    Their Vice channel has wall-to-wall drag queens &c. on your coin, far beyond their miniscule makeup of society – what do hardline mu zzos make of that on the dedicated ethnic channel?

  38. Bruce

    Ah, memories!

    http://mickware.info/2001/files/7f61d0588509dee240b5671a9444f3bb-28.php

    Wedge; thin edge thereof.

    See also “Brisbane lesbian vampires”.

    Or the coppers who have swallowed their guns after being rumbled with computers full of “Kiddie_Pron”.

    Quis custodiet custoddes ipsos, and all that jazz.

  39. In addition, the Victorian Government proposes to prevent a parent affirming a child in their biological sex if the child declares they are of the opposite sex. The Government is currently suggesting, in its Discussion Paper, that such gender affirmation by a parent be declared “family violence” under the Family Violence Protection Act 2008 and could result in a court order against the parent.

    Yeah okay that is totalitarian bullshit.

  40. thefrollickingmole

    Bruce

    THROUGH the scene he met Bill Hurrey, an outlandish and enormously popular ABC radio personality.

    I think we need to shut down the ABC until we know who knew what and covered it up.
    For the children.

  41. P

    Lizzie at 6:15pm

    Some people really need that anchor provided by religion, Christianity in this society mostly

    It is an honour to be a Christian.
    Being a Catholic is not an obligation but an awesome honour that has been given us by God.
    I was reminded of this yesterday when watching a video with Dr Taylor Marshall and Michael Matt.
    This is explained in about 5 mins from here.

  42. Kneel

    “…or you want special protections because they are Christian…”

    Not asking for that.
    Just asking for the same treatment as, eg, Mussies – show some bloody respect for others beliefs. Is that so hard? IF Christians (or Catholics, or Budists, or whatever) are not by doctortine practicing or inciting violence, THEN leave ’em alone! Which is admittedly an issue for Mussies that is swept under the carpet in an overuse of PC.

  43. BorisG

    priests will ignore them anyway

    Not so sure. They will be committing a crime and will think twice.

    The main effect of this law is that criminals will stop making confessions.

  44. Roger

    I agree plenty of anti-Christian sentiment and laws being passed now. In theory I disagree with a lot of them. But my outrage is tempered a little by knowing what came before.

    An injustice is an injustice that should be condemned unconditionally, no matter what happened 50, 100 or 200 years ago.

    Otherwise we enter into the never ending cycle of payback that is characteristic of tribal societies, ancient and modern.

  45. BorisG

    I largely agree with CL’s post. Christianity is under siege. I was opposed to these laws when they were debated. Yet Peter has a point. If there is a law requiring everyone to report certain crimes, why should priests have an exemption?

  46. 2dogs

    Not so sure. They will be committing a crime and will think twice.

    You greatly underestimate the importance Catholic priests place on the seal of the confessional.

    https://ucatholic.com/news/australian-priests-wed-rather-go-to-jail-than-follow-new-law-forcing-them-to-break-seal-of-confession/

  47. Roger

    If there is a law requiring everyone to report certain crimes, why should priests have an exemption?

    Because it keeps the door open.

    Any responsible priest/minister is going to make confession to the civil authorities a part of the repentance that is met with absolution.

    From what we know of these offenders, such confessions are likely to be rare, but wouldn’t even one justify the state witholding its hand in this matter?

  48. BorisG

    Roger sorry I don’t understand. Can you explain ?

  49. BorisG

    You greatly underestimate the importance Catholic priests place on the seal of the confessional

    Perhaps. Maybe many will follow their commandments rather than the law. But they will be torn apart between requirements of religion and law. But I guess when a priest hears such a confession, he is greatLy disturbed anyway.

  50. C.L.

    They will be committing a crime and will think twice.

    Boris, good to see you.

    Now … explain how authorities would find out about such a crime.
    No priest will ever be charged with such an offence.
    The laws are a nonjusticiable publicity stunt.

  51. Boambee John

    BorisG
    #3243289, posted on November 23, 2019 at 8:27 pm
    I largely agree with CL’s post. Christianity is under siege. I was opposed to these laws when they were debated. Yet Peter has a point. If there is a law requiring everyone to report certain crimes, why should priests have an exemption?

    Indeed. Now, which group of professionals is most likely to know about these offences, noting the low probability that priests will hear about them in the confessional after the new laws?

    Why, the lawyers, particularly those specialising in criminal defence cases! Why should they have an exemption?

  52. BorisG

    Now … explain how authorities would find out about such a crime.

    They probably won’t. But surely priests as law abiding citizens will be conflicted.

    Actually they can find out later when the mollester is caught. As you said. So not quite sure what your point is. The intend of the law is not to catch these priests but as a deterrent.

    Unfortunately the unintended consequence will be the deterrent for criminals against confessing.

  53. BorisG

    Why, the lawyers, particularly those specialising in criminal defence cases! Why should they have an exemption?

    Indeed

  54. dover_beach

    Yes well, it use to be illegal to be a lover of the same sex and women weren’t allowed to vote. Thank god we’ve moved on. But let’s keep your obsession alive in this platform you’ve taken over.

    C.L., I’d like to see you essay the attempt to make any criticism of politicized homosexuality in conservative-centre right circles verboten or scandalous. In the states, its taking the form of groyper wars.

  55. C.L.

    But let’s keep your obsession alive in this platform you’ve taken over.

    I don’t have an obsession, Ellie; you do.
    Just once, I’d like to see you make a case or an argument on a forum.
    The daring coquettish libertine act was on trend in 1971, I guess (I wasn’t around), but it’s a quaint bore now. So let’s see it; let’s see you make a libertarian case for more bans on public Christianity. See if you can do that without sounding like a nineteenth century Know-Nothing.

  56. FelixKruell

    Roger:

    An injustice is an injustice that should be condemned unconditionally, no matter what happened 50, 100 or 200 years ago.

    And I do condemn them. Just very passively.

  57. Old Lefty

    Back in the 70s, Richard Neville and his colleagues in Allan Ashbolt’s Marxist kindergarten used the ABC airwaves to promote the p3d3rast lifestyle of some of Neville’s mates. To this day, the surviving members of the production team and other ABC staff refuse to disclose the creeps’ identities, having told the police to go take a running jump in 1975 with the support of Whitlam’s hand-picked chairman. Will they either come clean or face concealment charges? Pigs will fly first, I suspect.

  58. Old Lefty

    Meanwhile, here is a classic case of ideological bias and dishonesty from a state organ of the Soviet Socialist Toilet of Yarragrad.

    https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/monica-doumit-twisting-truth-to-achieve-an-end/

  59. OL

    It is different for the ruling class.

    This isn’t Spain you know, old man.

  60. Ellie

    CL – I commented at 3pm. Why are you now demanding a response from me?

    Are you now lubricated enough to respond?

  61. BorisG

    Again I largely agree with CL. Not just Christianity but all the western values are under attack. Piece by piece. And it is played very skillfully so that every step looks innocuous enough for the majority. This is what I was telling my daughter before the gay marriage vote. They just peal it offstep by step.

  62. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    It is an honour to be a Christian.
    Being a Catholic is not an obligation but an awesome honour that has been given us by God.

    P, I do respect your view here. The commitment you have and the treasure that your religion is to you is in many ways an enviable one.

    An ‘anchor’ is not necessarily a restraint in an unpleasant sense either, but a place of security in stormy waters or indeed in still ones. That is what I had in mind.

  63. Gab

    “Even the average church-going Christian is not likely to know that 45.5 million of the estimated 70 million Christians who have died for Christ did so in the last century.”—Susan Brinkmann, The Catholic Standard and Times, Philadelphia, 5 Dec 2008.

  64. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    … ‘he leadeth me beside the still waters’ comes suddenly to my mind.

    I love that psalm.

    Ellie, it sometimes takes a while to get back to answer people on a given thread. See how late I am?
    I think we all have our own ways of putting forward a comment, of constructing an argument. The Cat is a cross-current (aquatic imagery seems to be the go for me tonite 🙂 ) of many different views and ways of stating them. There’s room for all. In my book, some of your musical pieces contributing to our understanding of Jooish culture are argument enough for me to appreciate your point of view on that, and your choices on other things too are often statements of a position. And I would be the last person to say that when a girl bats her eyelashes occasionally it means she is brainless.

    One thing I have noticed with women who come on to the Cat, CL – it often takes longer than it takes the men for a woman to define her mode of commenting and establish herself as a recognizable ‘voice’. Some of us start off as rather tentative, feeling our way; Candy did that. Nowt wrong wi’ that, either.

  65. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    That’s an amazing figure, Gab, and worth all of us repeating wherever we can.
    Facts greatly improve any argument, and this fact argues for a lot of heat on Christians in recent times.

  66. Boambee John

    Frank Walker from National Tiles
    #3243314, posted on November 23, 2019 at 9:24 pm
    It is different for the ruling class though John.

    Indeed.

    It took centuries of struggle to make the old aristocracy understand that the rules applied to them too, with much of that struggle being legal, albeit there was also much violence.

    Now the successors of the lawyers who helped achieve that have reversed the process in a matter of decades.

  67. Juan

    If the Catholic Church is under siege from secularists, on this issue at least they find enthusiastic co-belligerents among various Christians from Baptists to Anglicans and numerous others of the reformed persuasion — for whom principles of religious freedom seemingly don’t extend to religious practices they strongly disagree with.

    Seriously?

    It’s a long, long time – centuries – since any Protestant argued for a confessional state in which Roman Catholics were denied the freedom to practice their religion, juan. The Penal Laws in the UK began to be repealed in the mid to late 1700s.

    Seriously.

    And don’t take my word for it. Read the two pieces written by leading Christian (i.e. Protestant) men of the cloth for yourself:

    The Premier and an Archbishop and a Mediating Baptist,’ by Pastor Murray Campbell; and ‘Genuine Confession is Public,’ by Rev David Ould.

    More importantly, the views expressed by the two gentlemen are in no way aberrant within their denominations; within which you will be hard pressed to find a defender of the legal right of the Catholic Church’s seal of the confessional. Murray Campbell comes closest — but still recommends the Church should bend a knee to Caesar by adopting Waleed Aly’s suggested compromise.

  68. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Bruce, thank you. That is a fascinating site. I was particularly interested in the assessment of Paul McCartney’s songs, both music and lyrics. Especially Eleanor Rigby, which is one of the songs of the truly lost, I’ve always thought. And the others in his early oeuvre.

  69. bespoke

    Roger
    #3243283, posted on November 23, 2019 at 8:23 pm
    I agree plenty of anti-Christian sentiment and laws being passed now. In theory I disagree with a lot of them. But my outrage is tempered a little by knowing what came before.

    An injustice is an injustice that should be condemned unconditionally, no matter what happened 50, 100 or 200 years ago.

    Otherwise we enter into the never ending cycle of payback that is characteristic of tribal societies, ancient and modern.

    We haven’t left (ref above) justifying what’s happening now because of past misdeeds.

  70. Roger

    More importantly, the views expressed by the two gentlemen are in no way aberrant within their denominations

    Protestants disagree with Catholic doctrine and practice….goodness!

    That’s not, however, tantamount to wishing to deny Catholics freedom of religion, as you stated above.

    Individuals may have opinions, but they do not represent official church positions.

  71. Ellie

    CL,

    I write seriously. An example:

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/11/19/thems-fighting-words-5/#comment-3216009

    You describe my style as a daring coquettish libertine act. I resemble that. Not offended at all. It’s not an act. I’m like that in real life – fun and flirtatious. I do like that it irks stuffy conservative types. Not in real though – they respond in kind.

  72. Lee

    In addition, the Victorian Government proposes to prevent a parent affirming a child in their biological sex if the child declares they are of the opposite sex. The Government is currently suggesting, in its Discussion Paper, that such gender affirmation by a parent be declared “family violence” under the Family Violence Protection Act 2008 and could result in a court order against the parent.

    Someone should tell the effing grubby government to keep its paws off our children!

  73. P

    Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
    Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
    Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace.

  74. Juan

    Protestants disagree with Catholic doctrine and practice….goodness!

    That’s not, however, tantamount to wishing to deny Catholics freedom of religion, as you stated above.

    You and I have evidently read the same words but understood them differently. For instance, Pastor Campbell’s “We must also be wary of Government intrusion into religious practices. Do we really want Government dictating what are and are not valid religious convictions? I am not supporting the Roman Catholic Church’s position; I find it reprehensible,” before “calling on the Melbourne Archdiocese to re-evaluate their unsound and unethical practice of confessional seal,” comes to be understood in your mind as not “wishing to deny Catholics freedom of religion,” or at very least not wishing to deny Catholics the right to practice this aspect of their religion.

    Calling the seal of confession “unethical” is very strong language; and calling for the “Melbourne Archdiocese to re-evaluate” it is exactly the intention of the new mandatory reporting laws.

    Individuals may have opinions, but they do not represent official church positions.

    I think most Sydney Anglicans would say Rev Ould represents their church’s position on most if not all issues. As for the Baptists, you’ve got me there — the Baptist denomination just doesn’t have the sort of central authority which could have an official opinion on this sort of issue.

    But I’ll make it easy for you, just show me an Australian Protestant clergyman of Ould’s or Campbell’s standing who has publicly stated their support for the Catholics’ maintenance of the rite of confession in spite of mandatory reporting laws — just one?

    Remember, as Dietrich Bonhoeffer teaches us, not speaking out is no act of support.

  75. Gediminas the Great

    Once again, could some explain to me why the most vitriolic attacks against Catholics are from “people” educated as Catholics eg Milligan woman, Tomas Keneally etc
    In the alp Wong converted to being an Anglican, shorten the same and Rudd – is it because these twTs carry a chip on their shoulder of not being Anglicans and being perceived as 2nd class citizens.
    Attending a grammar school was the stTus high point were as a Catholic school was a crappy Catholic school.

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