We are living in a new Age

This is the editorial in The Age today: China revelations a major wake-up call. This is how it ends, and I agree with every word:

Australia finds itself in new territory, grappling with a relationship based on shared economic interests but, as China brandishes its meddling authoritarian ways, at ideological odds. The latest revelations are a major wake-up call for Australia to ensure it protects itself, and its way of life.

These are the lead stories on The Age Online website. Preservation of our way of life you would hope is more important than foreign trade.

China tried to plant its candidate in Federal Parliament, authorities believe

Bo "Nick" Zhao and Brian Chen, who he alleged was trying to get him into Federal parliament.

Bo ‘Nick’ Zhao was in trouble financially when he said he was approached with a million-dollar offer to become China’s man in Federal Parliament. ASIO released an extraordinary statement late on Sunday about the latest revelations.

‘Worse than I thought’: Liberal MP says Chinese interference a serious threat

Senator James Paterson says China's interference in Australia was worse than he thought.

The Morrison government has assured Australians the nation’s domestic spy agency is investigating claims from a potential Chinese defector that China tried to get a spy elected to Federal Parliament.

Hong Kong voters deliver pro-democracy message in ‘de facto referendum’

Local residents celebrate as Junius Ho Kwan-yiu loses in District Council Elections, outside a polling station in Hong Kong,

The election was seen as a test of community support for protests that continue after five months, with establishment figures campaigning on the need to restore stability.

Defections are messy and we may never know the full story
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102 Responses to We are living in a new Age

  1. mh

    The Age is better than The Australian.

  2. stackja

    Mao’s Long March continues.

  3. Snoopy

    We’re very lucky the ChiComs aren’t Communists.

  4. Caveman

    I’m dobbing my parents in.

  5. Fisky

    It is time for all opponents of the Trade War to apologise for being epically and embarrassingly wrong about everything. Also Paul Keating should be jailed for treason.

  6. Boambee John

    Two points.

    First, whatever his (many) other failings, Clive Hamilton is looking very prescient right now.

    Second, we have already had Shanghai Sam, but we need either to go back to the old transliteration for Peking Paul, or transliterate his name to Beijing Baul.

  7. Snoopy

    Bo “Nick” Zhao should be gaoled for treason also.

  8. Fisky

    Clive Hamilton made a long-term bet on this issue blowing up and he’s going to do tremendously well out of it. Great call baldy.

    Not so great call by Kevin Rudd, Paul Keating and The Australian (especially Robert Gottliebsen). Every week that another XJ story drops on the NYT is yet another piece of their credibility gone.

    This will keep going on and it should end with much of our political class being jailed.

  9. struth

    It is time for all opponents of the Trade War to apologise for being epically and embarrassingly wrong about everything. Also Paul Keating should be jailed for treason.

    Exactly.

    You shouldn’t deal with criminals.
    The cheapest goods aren’t so fucking cheap anymore are they?
    They only cost you your nation, your freedom and prosperity.

  10. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Bo “Nick” Zhao should be gaoled for treason also.

    bit difficult given he is dead

  11. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    The chicom problem doesn’t just stop at political spying. It’s endemic to all sectors of society. staff that steal IP and software, seen it 1st hand. market rigging by state funded chicom “businesses”. trade surplus dollars used to purchase local assets and businesses. chinese building companies importing chicom standard building construction and ignoring local codes. the list goes on and on.

    why do we let hostile chicoms to buy or compete with local businesses at any level?

  12. C.L.

    Seems like The Australian is on the payroll.
    Keatingites to a man.

  13. Dr Faustus

    bit difficult given he is dead

    A dodgy dim sum.

  14. Fisky

    building companies importing chicom standard building construction and ignoring local codes. the list goes on and on.

    Building standards, OHS, award wages, etc, are applied to “white” businesses only. That’s the reality in Australia. No one is interested in chicom supermarkets paying their staff 60% of the minimum wage. That’s just the price we have to pay to keep the glorious population-property ponzi market going.

  15. Bruce of Newcastle

    We are living in a new Age

    History called and wants the 1930’s back.

    Admittedly things are slightly different as there were no nuclear weapons on 1 September 1939.

  16. I dunno. Chinese interference or Greens, UN, globalist (ie Soros etc) etc interference? Our sovereignty is being attacked from all sides.

  17. lotocoti

    Nobody would be talking about this, had His Potential Greatness got that extradition treaty with the PRC through Parliament.

  18. C.L.

    It was The Australian that organised last week’s forum that allowed Keating to trash Australia, the West, democracy, ASIO and anybody else that gets in Beijing’s way.

    No surprise that they’re playing dead today.

  19. Fisky

    The Australian is a very odd newspaper. They were one of the strongest voices for Kevinism in ’07, they loved the Co2 tax, while pretending to be skeptical at the same time. A weird little establishment cult that ASIO should probably investigate.

  20. Fisky

    Someone should ask Richard Marles if he still wants to go ahead with those joint military exercises. Perhaps they can practice shooting at live targets in XJ, or do some “counter-insurgency” training in HK.

    Brilliant judgment Richard maaaaate!

  21. Tim Neilson

    bit difficult given he is dead

    Maybe a ritual posthumous execution like Pope Formosus or Oliver Cromwell?

  22. Mother Lode

    building companies importing chicom standard building construction and ignoring local codes. the list goes on and on.

    I remember working on a project where the client insisted on using Chinese steel. The principal was a mining company who had contracted another company to manage the project and we were contracted by them. They presumably thought they would save money.

    By the time it arrived in Australia it had warped and was useless.

    Not only did they have to pay for the Australian product after all, they had paid for the Chinese product. And the cascading delays this caused would also have cost a pretty penny.

  23. Boambee John

    Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)
    #3244406, posted on November 25, 2019 at 12:35 pm
    Bo “Nick” Zhao should be gaoled for treason also.

    bit difficult given he is dead

    Beijingicide?

  24. Rohan

    bemused
    #3244424, posted on November 25, 2019 at 12:53 pm
    I dunno. Chinese interference or Greens, UN, globalist (ie Soros etc) etc interference? Our sovereignty is being attacked from all sides.

    Or is it a case of all the Marxist Pigs simply jostling for prime position at the trough?

  25. max

    China tried to plant its candidate in Federal Parliament

    all members are planted by someone nothing new here.

    who should have right to citizenship and how?
    and what kind of power should government have?

    majority of members are socialist/statist big government believers

  26. Mother Lode

    I dunno. Chinese interference or Greens, UN, globalist (ie Soros etc) etc interference? Our sovereignty is being attacked from all sides.

    The Chinese don’t need to infiltrate the Greens or even Labour.

    I would have to guess the reason they though they needed to with the Libs was because there might be a vestigial few who were uneasy at a too Sinophilic policy. They would have to be managed.

  27. Boambee John

    In response to a question from me on the OT, Tailgunner seemed to agree that the CFMMEU leadership had sold out the membership on imported Chinese workers. They had already sold out to the Slime, donating large sums to an organisation that wants to make most of the membership unemployed.

    Then there is the issue of low quality imported materials.

    Time for Gunner’s deplorables to rebel. Tailgunner for General Secretary!

  28. ok, ok.
    Time to roundup all the foreigners or those with foreign roots and place them in internment camps.
    I suggest South Australia and/or Tasmania be converted to prisons.

  29. Roger

    Someone should ask Richard Marles if he still wants to go ahead with those joint military exercises.

    An epitome of our stupidest political class ever.

    ‘Worse than I thought’: Liberal MP says Chinese interference a serious threat

    Even those touted as having a bit of nous are taken by surprise.

    And don’t forget that until recently Liberal & Labor were both happy to take Chinese money despite warnings from ASIO.

    Royal Commission, anyone?

  30. Mother Lode

    At the risk of sounding paranoid (I am in fact merely wondering aloud) are senior public servants influential enough to make it worthwhile to cultivate them with Aldi bags as well.

    Are our public service mandarins susceptible to temptations in mandarin?

    Politicians flicker into and out of existence in their departments like quantum particles. This would be one way of effecting stability over a couple of decades where there is usually flux over a couple of years.

  31. stackja

    ML – 1940s Australia then External Affairs Department had several people who were suspected of being KGB assets, Venona revealed.

  32. A Lurker

    Surely we can find better trading partners that are more aligned with our democratic way of life, because our freedoms are worth far more than 30 silver pieces.

  33. Ivan Denisovich

    An interesting, albeit rather long, piece last year by Paul Monk:

    Australia was rather poorly served during the Cold War by its counter-intelligence services, in large measure because they were deeply penetrated by the Soviet Union. This remains a subject that the Australian government is extraordinarily reticent about. That makes it possible for the Left to get away with the old Cold War canard that ASIO was a right-wing organisation obsessed with allegedly mythical reds under the bed. It turns out that the reds were not merely under the bed; they were in it. Yet it remains one of the most troubling aspects of post-Cold War revelations about Soviet espionage that, whereas much has come out about previously unconfirmed or altogether unknown Soviet spies in the United States, Britain, France, Germany and elsewhere, almost nothing has come to light about such spies in Australia. There is, however, disturbing evidence to suggest that Australia was perhaps at least as deeply penetrated as any other Western country during the Cold War and that this has been deliberately covered up over the past twenty years.

    In late 2009, in an opinion column in the Australian, I drew attention to the anomalous fact that the KGB files on Australia have somehow never seen the light of day, despite the publication of two fat volumes, in 1999 and 2005, on the Mitrokhin revelations from the KGB archive. I noted that there were, indeed, revelations to be had about Soviet spies in Australia, but that these had apparently been suppressed, for no clear reason. I claimed that this had been done at the request of the Keating government. I added that, as prime minister, Paul Keating had, nonetheless, quietly set up two inquiries into Soviet penetration of Canberra and specifically of ASIO. Those inquiries were Operation Liver, by the Australian Federal Police; and a separate inquiry by senior diplomat and former head of ONA, Michael Cook. The AFP inquiry, I stated, was terminated by the Labor Attorney-General Michael Lavarch with the exclamation, “This has got to stop. There’s no knowing where it will end!” According to my understanding, I stated, Michael Cook deduced that there had been four Soviet moles inside ASIO, virtually up to the end of the Cold War.

    As several serious, well-informed and responsible individuals have exclaimed to me since that piece came out, the silence in response to it was deafening. There was not a word of retort from Michael Cook, Paul Keating, Michael Lavarch, the AFP, ASIO or anyone else in a position to state that I was in error in any particular. Disconcertingly, there was no response, either, from the conservative side of politics……….

    The Chinese have advantages that the Soviet Union never enjoyed: a booming economy, a huge trade relationship with their target countries, not least Australia; interested lobby groups working on their behalf; very large pools of Chinese migrants in this and other Western countries; huge numbers of students and tourists coming here and to the other leading Western countries every year; and a widespread view that they are now a capitalist country set to overtake the United States, a view which encourages both apologias on their behalf and band-wagoning………

    Recall the Joel Fitzgibbon affair of three years ago. Here’s the key press report from May 2009, as written up by the investigative journalist Philip Dorling:

    Associates of the businesswoman Helen Liu claim Chinese intelligence services asked them to cultivate a relationship with Joel Fitzgibbon and his father, Eric Fitzgibbon, after they were flown first-class to China in 1993. Sources with close ties to the company that paid for the trip also allege that Chinese agents had electronically monitored the pair during their visit………..

    In late 1995, Diamond Hill International contributed $20,000 to Joel Fitzgibbon’s campaign for the 1996 federal election. At the time, the donation was declared by the NSW Labor Party as a donation to a “party unit” with no direct reference to Mr Fitzgibbon. In 1996 the personal and business relationship between Mr Xu and Ms Liu broke apart and she took control of several joint companies including Diamond Hill International and Wincopy. Wincopy subsequently donated $20,000 to Joel Fitzgibbon’s 1998 re-election campaign. Her companies gave a further $50,000 to the NSW ALP between 2001 and 2007. Ms Liu has denied ever being involved in spying…………

    In any case, Chinese espionage right now is occurring on a scale that dwarfs what the Soviet Union accomplished during the height of the Cold War. This is not something widely appreciated. It has three sources or enablers. First, China, unlike the Soviet Union, is now a commercially thriving state, doing vast volumes of trade all over the world. This gives it both the incentive and the means to conduct espionage of every kind to an extent that the Soviet Union could only have envied. Second, there is a huge Chinese diaspora and China’s intelligence services, unlike their Soviet counterparts, have always depended primarily upon first-generation immigrants to foreign countries and students or tourists travelling abroad, to gather much of their intelligence for them, a handful at a time. Third, China is now conducting cyber espionage—something that was never possible for the Soviet Union. It was not technically possible in the Cold War years and, in any case, information science was one of the many areas in which the Soviet Union was left behind by the West in the 1970s and 1980s………….

    Now, you might ask, “What is the evidence that any such spies have operated in Australia?” After all, we don’t have nuclear weapons or stealth aircraft or other high-profile targets for Chinese espionage. Well, the question of evidence regarding espionage in Australia in general is a strange and elusive subject; and the targets of foreign espionage here are often indirect. Throughout the Cold War, we were seen by the Soviet Union as a prime target because of our close relationship with the United States, Britain and Canada. It is clear that high-level intelligence was going to the KGB out of H.V. Evatt’s office when he was Chifley’s Minister for External Affairs. Several of his staff, including Alan Dalziel, have always been suspected of being Soviet spies. Des Ball, one of the leading specialists on Cold War intelligence matters in Australia, recently gave it as his opinion that John Burton, Secretary for External Affairs, and even Evatt himself, may have been spies and were certainly fellow travellers indulgent of actual spies in their midst………..

    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2012/06/chinese-espionage-and-australia-s-national-interest/

  34. Fisky

    Surely we can find better trading partners that are more aligned with our democratic way of life, because our freedoms are worth far more than 30 silver pieces.

    We can, but that would take much of the excitement away for our woke political class and their intellectual hangers-on, who want to see Australia’s illegitimate settler-colonial system debased and brought low. Integrating ourselves with totalitarian regimes is not really about $$$ but the psychological need of broken progressives to get revenge on their parents’ generation. Then there are the corporate wh0res who keep The Australian afloat, but they also hate democracy and are always looking to bypass or even replace the electorate.

  35. Ivan Denisovich

    piece last year by Paul Monk

    ….in August this year…..

  36. jupes

    China tried to plant its candidate in Federal Parliament, authorities believe

    Keating? Dastyari? Bob Carr? Fitzgibbon? Lui?

    Or do they want another one?

  37. JC

    These revelations broadly remind me of the late 40s west coming to the realization what the Soviet was and the threat it posed.

  38. Jock

    We need stealth bombers and nukes. Now.

  39. John Smith101

    I found this article very disturbing: Joshua Phillip, Darwin, Australia Adopts China’s Tech for Total Social Control, Technocracy, 5 May 2019

    From the article (paraphrased):

    Australia is preparing to debut its version of the Chinese regime’s high-tech system for monitoring and controlling its citizens. The launch, to take place in the northern city of Darwin, will include systems to monitor people’s activity via their cell phones.
    . . . . .
    In Darwin, they’ve already constructed “poles, fitted with speakers, cameras and Wi-Fi,” according to NT News, to monitor people, their movements around the city, the websites they visit, and what apps they use. The monitoring will be done mainly by artificial intelligence, but will alert authorities based on set triggers.
    . . . . .
    [W]hile Australian officials claim its operations are benign, they’ve announced it functions to monitor cell phone activity and “virtual fences” that will trigger alerts if people cross them.
    . . . . .
    The nature of the “virtual fences” and what type of activity will sound an alarm still isn’t being made clear.
    . . . . .
    The CCP’s [Chinese Communist Party] smart city Social Credit System is able to monitor each person in the society, tracking every element of their lives—including their friends, online purchases, daily behavior, and other information—and assigns each person a citizen score that determines their level of freedom in society.
    . . . . .
    “The CCP is now taking the first step to build such a high-tech totalitarian system, by using credit ratings and monitoring and recording every detail in people’s daily life, which is very frightening.”
    The regime . . . . .[is] exporting the system, and its “China model” of totalitarian government, as a service of its “One Belt, One Road” program. When the CCP builds its infrastructure abroad, its surveillance and social control programs are part of the package.

  40. I_am_not_a_robot

    You’re all as bad as climate hysterics, better wait for solid evidence.

  41. JC

    Smith101

    That battle was lost around 2010 when this technology was being unpacked. We didn’t need the Chinese to help us as we, in the west, did it all on our lonesome.

  42. jupes

    You’re all as bad as climate hysterics, better wait for solid evidence.

    There are none so blind as those that will not see.

  43. A Lurker

    You’re all as bad as climate hysterics, better wait for solid evidence.

    Move along. Nothing to see here.

  44. Don’t sweat it guys.
    I have a piece of paper here that says “peace in our time!”

  45. SMERt’ SHpionam and get the nukes, but I can’t stand controlled opposition leftists LARPing as alt-righties demanding more socialism and taxes (tariffs).

    You know who you are.

    So we’re gonna buy stuff from America, not trade with China, and America has a massive trade relationship with China?

    Total bollocks.

    The real problem is not hitting exporters with taxes, nor consumers, but the political establishment have been directly funded by the CCP.

    Yet, they decide who gets charged with treason and get the photo ops when it goes public and they have to indict their maaates.

  46. BorisG

    It is time for all opponents of the Trade War to apologise for being epically and embarrassingly wrong about everything.

    No. This has nothing to do with trade. Keep these issues separate. Unlike Trump who has ot signed the Hong Kong bill because of the sensitive trade talks.shame.

  47. Fisky

    You’re all as bad as climate hysterics, better wait for solid evidence.

    LOL, good call troll.

  48. BorisG

    You’re all as bad as climate hysterics, better wait for solid evidence.

    I disagree. Even if the latest sensational news is all fake, the Chinese long term strategy is beyond dispute.

  49. Fisky

    Sorry dotty, are you seriously arguing that Trump should respond to the annulment of the rule of law in HK, the XJ gulag revelations, etc etc, by dropping all anti-PRC actions on trade? Because that would be seriously weird and be a massive victory for the PRC?

  50. Fisky

    No. This has nothing to do with trade. Keep these issues separate. Unlike Trump who has ot signed the Hong Kong bill because of the sensitive trade talks.shame.

    Oh these are separate issues are they? So tell me, how do you intend to distinguish, say, between the CCP tech firms that are providing facial recognition software for use against XJ and HK dissidents, and those totally above board and squeaky-clean mainland companies that are…also controlled by the CCP. Because in practice, above a certain scale, there is no such thing as a private company in the PRC. All are directly beholden to the party. Which means they are required to prioritise the interests of the regime before even their own bottom line, never mind other stakeholders like workers, trade partners, consumers, etc.

    The reality is, this is not even a trade war anymore. Because it is now completely unfeasible to go back to the WTO, hash things out with the PRC (which won’t happen, but anyway), and then face a “normal” state of affairs by which the rule of law in one of the world’s most important financial centres has been erased (the overwhelming majority of foreign investment is channeled to the PRC via HK).

    So even if we tried to separate trade out from all the other issues, actually we can’t anymore.

  51. Fisky

    The China “dove” position is as follows: Even AFTER the revelations in XJ, the destruction of HK, the blatant political interference in western democracies, etc etc, we must…drop all tariffs on the PRC and let their companies buy everything up with open slather.

    It barely needs stating that this is an incredibly stupid and counter-productive position that invites derision and mockery.

  52. Fisky

    Then there’s the interesting case of British Steel, now facing acquisition by a PRC company. Now why was British Steel in financial trouble in the first place. Largely because of anti-competitive dumping from the PRC! It’s almost as if this was planned from the beginning!

  53. Trump is already caving. “Phase 1 a agreement”.

  54. Fisky
    #3244595, posted on November 25, 2019 at 4:48 pm

    Then there’s the interesting case of British Steel, now facing acquisition by a PRC company. Now why was British Steel in financial trouble in the first place. Largely because of anti-competitive dumping from the PRC! It’s almost as if this was planned from the beginning!

    Yeah I know right!?

    If only Arthur Scargill became PM and Thatcher never was, Britain would be booming.

    That totally isn’t what the elites want either. It has never been fantasised about ad nauseum in the Guardian, BBC, ABC or The Age.

  55. Fisky

    I would go easy on the predictions regarding Trump, Dotty, because there have been a zillion claims of imminent caving by Trump over the past year, but none have come to fruition.

    The only value that chatter around a “deal” actually has is to smoke out the people who want to go easy on the CCP.

  56. Fisky

    Again, what this goes to show is that a consistent adherence to “libertarian” policies leads directly to socialism and statism.

  57. You’re saying we need statism to avoid liberalism which you then claim with no proof at all, inevitably results in statism.

    I pegged you a long time ago as controlled opposition and I was right.

  58. The only value that chatter around a “deal” actually has is to smoke out the people who want to go easy on the CCP.

    You’re like a battered housewife.

    Have some dignity, for pete’s sake.

  59. Publius

    Meanwhile over at uber-nationalist Vox Day’s blog…it’s all about the bad bad west interfering in HK.
    I just don’t get why so many of Vox’s devotees love the commies so much.

  60. It’s over for Vox Day (who cares anymore) and Screamin’! Owen Benjamin.

    Let Nick Fuentes have at them.

    You’d have to be a real chump to support China over the HK pro democracy supporters.

    Like how it was Obama and the Bidens who were tied to Russia and Yanukovich all along, whilst Trump actually stood up to Russia and its proxies like NK.

    Some of these righties got so wound up in the anti-Euromaidan, anti-EU narrative they chose Putin over the West, without knowing Obama and Biden were basically supporting Putin (which was pretty obvious every time Obama let Russia get away with something).

  61. Fisky

    You’re saying we need statism to avoid liberalism which you then claim with no proof at all, inevitably results in statism

    Certainly allowing government controlled (CCP) enterprises to buy out private firms is socialism. In this case international socialism which is why libertarians are getting the tingles. They truly love the idea of erasing borders!

  62. thefrollickingmole

    Fisky…

    A little closer to home..

    Review board approves China Mengniu Dairy Company’s $1.5 billion takeover of Australian baby formula company Bellamy’s
    NOVEMBER 15, 2019
    The board of the Tasmania-based company unanimously recommended shareholders vote in favour of the proposal, but denied it had anything to do with fast- tracking Chinese regulation to allow expansion in the country.

    After a lengthy wait, Bellamy’s is still waiting on backing from China’s State Administration for Market Regulations to sell organic formula in stores

    I wonder why they managed to pinch it at a low price… its a mystery…

    Bellamy’s Australia hits another roadblock in China as export licence suspended
    July 7, 2017
    Troubled dairy company Bellamy’s has stumbled early in its recovery journey after Chinese authorities suspended the export licence of the canning facility the company has just acquired.

    Bellamy’s has only just completed a capital raising partly to fund the $28.5 million acquisition of the Camperdown facility with one of the key selling points being the fact it holds a so-called CNCA licence to sell product in China.

    Its not even subtle, its China deliberately using its government to deliberately fuck over suppliers so they can be brought out by their own concerns.

  63. Fisky

    Its not even subtle, its China deliberately using its government to deliberately fuck over suppliers so they can be brought out by their own concerns.

    Yes it is an extraordinary case of socialist interference in the market which is oddly supported by nearly all “free market” advocates. The only explanation that makes sense is they are globalists first, and free marketeers second. Anything which is seen to undermine national sovereignty is seen as somehow liberating at the individual level.

  64. Dr Fred Lenin

    Is Pravda on the Yarra still going? I thought the recievers would have moved in as channel nein moved to cut its losses , I expected a lemming like move of fellow travelers to the ALPBC, maybe the massive cuts Scomo, made stopped that . Massive Cuts?
    I think it was $30 he cut by something like that , had horrifying results amongst the comrades ,shorten had promised a 2billion a week rise in alpbc tax . They have formed a Resistance Movement to reverse the defeat of their party the stupid peasants rejected ,sorta ;ike the decromats in the USA and Corbynov in the UK .

  65. Squirrel

    I imagine the luvvies would be somewhat less agitated about all this skulduggery if Gladys Liu was representing the ALP in the Parliament, but it’s heartening, whatever the ultimate motivations, to see the heads removed from the backsides.

  66. Arky

    I pegged you a long time

    ..
    Ewwwwwwww.

  67. 2dogs

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    And would they be any worse than the ones we have now?

  68. Bruce of Newcastle

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    They are working hard for two things:

    1. Harvest as much useful IP as possible.
    2. Make sure the local Han population is loyal or acquiescent to Beijing.

    The third thing is to minimise opposition to CCP/PLA policy by influencing the elites, through money and prestige. So for example there are 14 Confucius Institutes in Australia. Fourteen. That is a major investment in soft diplomacy by China.

    I’ve mentioned in the past that I’ve worked with a guy in our tech centre who appeared to be PLA. Good guy! We found out he had a black belt in karate when he joined the local club.

  69. jupes

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    Those that make us a vassal state.

    And would they be any worse than the ones we have now?

    Yes.

  70. Bruce of Newcastle

    Btw contrast the 14 Confucius Institutes with the screeching about one Centre for Western Civilization funded by Ramsay. Says it all regarding our intellectual class.

  71. Roger

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    What’s Lebensraum in Mandarin?

  72. Tel

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    I would happily put Beijing in charge of Australia’s energy policy … they couldn’t possibly do worse than Canberra.

  73. Roger

    Says it all regarding our intellectual class.

    La trahison des clercs, 21st C. Australian iteration.

  74. Roger

    A Chinese journalist/researcher just stated on The Dumb that she talked to a CCP official who admitted they stuffed up their handling of Sam Dastyari.

    They should have waited until he was a minister in a Labor government before exercising their control over him.

    Paul Keating is unavailable for comment.

  75. Fisky

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    They want us to support their destruction of HK and the annexation of TW. So an independent foreign policy is out. Also, to wave through their acquisition of all our natural resources, which will be mined and exported by a fully PRC workforce.

  76. JC

    Also, to wave through their acquisition of all our natural resources, which will be mined and exported by a fully PRC workforce.

    Fisk, there may be some downside, but at least we’d see an un-banning of coal exports and the removal of fracking bans 🙂

    We’re barely basically not allowed to open new mines anymore.

  77. mh

    If China is trying to influence our democracy, what policies would they be trying to introduce?

    And would they be any worse than the ones we have now?

    Sign up to One Belt One Road.

  78. Arky

    And would they be any worse than the ones we have now?

    ..
    This isn’t hard to find out.
    You just have to ask the people of Monglia, Tibet, Xinjiang, and now Hong Kong.

  79. Bruce of Newcastle

    Sign up to One Belt One Road.

    One Belt One Road One Führer.

  80. mh

    When Australia signs up to OBOR we’ll be supporting this too, like these other countries

    Statement at UN supports China on Xinjiang

    https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201910/30/WS5db8f3cfa310cf3e355746e3.html

  81. Rockdoctor

    I remember working on a project where the client insisted on using Chinese steel. The principal was a mining company who had contracted another company to manage the project and we were contracted by them. They presumably thought they would save money.

    By the time it arrived in Australia it had warped and was useless.

    Know of a similar example on a tenement with a well known company. PWT casing forced on the drillers cheap Chinese & not fit for purpose. Drill crews being castigated for standown charges on DOR’s due to issues with said casing reverted to using own casing. This was stomped on very quickly, drillers complied but reluctantly and rumour is someone may have been some prominent person at arms length was making a killing. Regrettably there are some among our own who are too easily corrupted, this is what they are exploiting.

  82. Louis

    Seen the upgrades to defence buildings on bases? Yeah, much of it done by Chinese companies and labour.

    How’s that for stupid?

    Not that it matters as we have a few days fighting power at best. Our higher education sector is entirely dependent on Chinses money, as is our property bubble.

  83. Gediminas the Great

    FMD, Gough opened talks with China and the Meeja said he is a genius. The ABC and entertainment industry go on about the China century and if you cant beat them join them. Personally running a small business, working 60 hrs a week and being good at what I do, I have useful skills, I can’t wait to see what the Chinese do to intellgent and hard working Australians (can some one tell me where I can find one of those). Maake how many lefties and govt employees will survive. This will be a scream.

  84. Gediminas the Great

    Louis

    Spot on.

  85. BorisG

    I agree what Fisk partLy that you cannot trade with China just pretending it is a normal market economy. But what is the solution, exactly? Consumers want cheap Chinese goods. How do you square that circle?

    Trump has indicated several times that all he wants from Beijing is trade concessions on currency, inerellectual property etc. . Which are no doubt important but not the whole thing. Xingjan is one thing but South China Sea is even more serious.

    What’s your solution?

  86. BorisG

    By the time it arrived in Australia it had warped and was useless.

    Is it all so bad? I recall a big scandal with fractures appearing in high rise apartment buildings in Sydney. Guess what? In China three are hundreds of thousands of such buildings and I never heard of one collapsing etc. I obviously don’t know the figures but this does not seem to be a big issue. How do they manage it?

  87. Fisky

    I agree what Fisk partLy that you cannot trade with China just pretending it is a normal market economy. But what is the solution, exactly? Consumers want cheap Chinese goods. How do you square that circle?

    To gradually decouple from the Chinese economy, starting with investment, and then moving onto migration and finally trade. It will take a while, but we’ll probably have to do it anyway because their economy is in the toilet and their banks are falling like ninepins. A very sick country in so many ways.

    Trump has indicated several times that all he wants from Beijing is trade concessions on currency, inerellectual property etc. . Which are no doubt important but not the whole thing. Xingjan is one thing but South China Sea is even more serious.

    If China were willing to make a trade deal, they would have started with agricultural concessions, which they kind of need to do given their own meat production has collapsed. Low-hanging fruit, they need the calories anyway, so let’s get it done. Nope. So I think we can forget about any progress in the much more sensitive fields of IP and currency manipulation.

    Anyway, it’s too late now. There’s no trade deal, probably was never likely, and it won’t matter thanks to HK and XJ. Trump now finds himself on the Dovish wing of US opinion, which is quite a change from 2017. We’ve just seen the HK democracy act pass virtually unanimously, with no prospect of veto. And this is only the beginning. Each NYT news drop basically seals the fate of the China Engagement Lobby.

  88. Boambee John @1224pm: It’s Beijing Bob (Carr) and Peking Paul (yes, old style. Just two of The Filth who have collaborated. Moscow is so ‘yesterday’.

  89. Roger, ‘qixidi’ is the usual translation for Lebensraum. Almost correct.

  90. BorisG

    Fisk I doubt that your recepies are realistic with such a massive economy. Many thangs are wrong with the Chinese regime, especially under Xi, but I don’t think such behemoth can be isolated. I also think the tremendous growth in China, lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, is something yet to be understood. We always thought it is impossible under strong state control and corruption, but it has been happening before our eyes.

    Besides the world is now functioning under a model where most manufacturing is done in countries like China and Vietnam. ‘This model has brought prosperity around the world and in my view is here to stay.

    The problem is that under Xi China is clearly seeking world domination and needs to be contained. I would advocate non trade measures such as curbing domestic influence, explicit guarantees to Taiwan, sanctions on sensitive products etc.

  91. BorisG

    I also would take exception on HK. China has been remarkably patient in the face of increasing and irrational violence. XJ is a different story. Horrible.

  92. BorisG

    And how long can Trump delay signing the HK bill? And if he does veto it, will GOP vote to overrule it in such a divided Congress ? They failed in the Armenian Genocide case already.

  93. A Lurker

    History repeats.

    China’s influence on Australia reminds me of Imperial Rome and how they handled their provinces. Install a Roman governor, make it known that all taxes and wealth flows back to Rome in a timely manner. In return the province gets the benefits of Roman technology, engineering and trade.

    However, if taxes aren’t forthcoming then the legions are sent in. If the province revolts, then the legions teach the province a bloody lesson – think mass graves. The province is subdued and over time, adopts Roman ways.

  94. Up The Workers!

    What’s all the fuss about China owning a single candidate for the Australian House of Reprehensibles?

    They have a whole bloody Party in the House already.

  95. Andre Lewis

    Watched the 60 Minutes Chian spy special last night and switched it off before it finished because it was the usual beat up they produce. The asylum seeker self described spy was at best a disrupter at the margins of the Hong Kong debacle and his story about influencing the Taiwan election was basically pathetic. Finally we have Andrew Hastie getting very concerned about someone trying to infiltrate parliament. Turns out to be a car salesman who may or may have ambition to be a liberal candidate next time around. Complete bollocks all of it.
    China needs to be watched of course but this latest scoop is pitiful.

  96. Zatara

    In China three are hundreds of thousands of such buildings and I never heard of one collapsing etc.

    Do you really think China would advertise it?

    And how long can Trump delay signing the HK bill? And if he does veto it, will GOP vote to overrule it in such a divided Congress ?

    He’s not delaying it, the Senate hasn’t even passed it.

    They failed in the Armenian Genocide case already.

    The only reason the Armenian Genocide bill was brought to a vote now was to put as much strain on the US/Turkish relationship as possible to frustrate Trump. Prior to that it had languished in some desk drawer in the House since 2007 until Adam Schiff dug it up last year and pushed it.

  97. old bloke

    BorisG
    #3245028, posted on November 25, 2019 at 11:34 pm

    Is it all so bad? I recall a big scandal with fractures appearing in high rise apartment buildings in Sydney. Guess what? In China three are hundreds of thousands of such buildings and I never heard of one collapsing etc.

    Chinese apartments fallen over.

    You haven’t bought one of those Chinese dog-boxes I hope Boris.

  98. BorisG

    I spend quite a bit of time in China and know lots of people who happily live in those apartments. A Chinese colleague just bought one with an area of 200 sq.m.

    I am sure there must be problems but I never heard about them in China. And hear a lot about other problems that they face.

    The disproportionate problems in Australia are because here high rise apartments are a novelty.

  99. BorisG

    He’s not delaying it, the Senate hasn’t even passed it.

    Well fox asked Trump if he will sign it and he responded that he wasn’t sure. He said he supports HK but also supports Xi. Whatever that means.

    The only reason the Armenian Genocide bill was brought to a vote now was to put as much strain on the US/Turkish relationship as possible to frustrate Trump. Prior to that it had languished in some desk drawer in the House since 2007 until Adam Schiff dug it up last year and pushed it.

    in a sharply divided house It passed with overwhelming bipartisan support. but GOP in the senate won’t take it because of Trump opposition. Cowards.

    Erdogan is the enemy of the west and should be treated as Such. http://www.danielpipes.org/19137/erdogan-turkish-delight

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