Hoarding is not the same thing as creating

It’s been a long time since I’ve heard the slurred ocker tones of Bill Kelty. Last night on the ABC’s Big Ideas program, the former Secretary of the ACTU ambled back on to centre stage:

People always used to say to me, “the problem with you, Bill, is that as a union official you don’t understand this, you don’t understand that unions do not create wealth.” Well, I’m interested to note that the five biggest financial organisations – in 30 years’ time – will have been created in the back room of the ACTU! We created them. Every industry fund, we created … We created financial institutions out of super. Now, it is not unions’ job to create wealth but it is unions’ job to understand how wealth is created and be involved in that creation of wealth … in 30 years’ time the biggest owners of capital will actually be working people … there is no better partner than unions. No better force in a pluralist democracy than unions.

The forum required its two speakers to answer the question, Do unions help or harm the economy? Jennifer Westacott – Chief Executive of the Business Council – spoke next:

I agree with everything Bill just said.

That’s the spirit.

UPDATE: Speaking of former Labor figures, a one-time preselection candidate for Burke is in the news:

The Federal Court has ordered the unions watchdog to quash its investigation into the Australian Workers Union and return all documents it seized during controversial federal police raids in 2017.

Federal Court Justice Mordecai Bromberg issued an order on Tuesday quashing the Registered Organisations Commission (ROC) decision to investigate the AWU in October 2017. The ROC has also been ordered to return all documents it seized during the police raids of AWU offices.

This entry was posted in Economics and economy, Unions. Bookmark the permalink.

47 Responses to Hoarding is not the same thing as creating

  1. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    Hoarding is not the same thing as creating

    Or looting, for that matter.

    P.S. I thought Kelty was long dead.

  2. Rex Mango

    Heard that talk and one thing that pricked my ears was Kelty claiming that he and others back in the day had organised the AFL along the lines of looking after players (ie unionised), while the NRL took the path of looking after stars and hence the AFL became more successful. Never heard of that theory, just considered one a much bettter game.

  3. ‘You didn’t build that!’ Said a similarly famous person.

    ‘We built this city!’. Forgetting that it also involved financiers, entrepreneurs, miners, forestry, farmers, truck drivers, architects, engineers, cooks, doctors etc, etc.

    Nothing was ever created until unions came on the scene.

  4. Mother Lode

    Never heard of that theory, just considered one a much bettter game.

    Just the unionist thing of claiming credit for things other people did.

    It is as if the mouth were to take sole credit for nourishing the body since without the mouth nourishment would not occur. A union will demand that the oesophagus, stomach, intestines and the many glands with their secretions should be sacrificed to the mouth.

  5. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    in 30 years’ time the biggest owners of capital will actually be working people

    Right out of the chavez, maduro playbook

  6. Ellen

    I guess it depends on what the all money in the union super funds is doing. Is it invested in shares in business companies? Does that count as helping to create wealth? Does that make unionists capitalists? If not, why not?

  7. Rusty of Qld

    It was Hawke and Keating whom had seen, possibly from the Union masters direction, how the unions in America had set up their Union owned superannuation schemes and the rivers of gold that would flow from them, to the support of the ALP.
    No real problems with a union run super scheme but it should not be allowed to use the members funds to fund anything else than the members financial growth, not pet political purposes.

  8. Nob

    They act more like the oesophagus.
    They neither create nor add value, but strive to control the choke points, thence comes power.

    That’s why – for example – no business with any brains will commit important freight to rail, ever, even if it quotes cheaper. Union-controlled choke points.

  9. Mother Lode

    Right out of the chavez, maduro playbook

    Always fascinating to observe how much low-forehead big-mouths whose proudest scholastic achievement is their primary school graduation diploma love them some Marxism.

    Other than them there are students who have not noticed that 100 years of failure is any sort of indictment – for them society is a purely abstract exercise with abstract entities and a rule book. Like nerds playing Dungeons and Dragons.

    There is a commonality: Neither the student Marxists nor the drooling ogre unionists have actual experience of work.

  10. Fair shake of the Sauce bottle

    We built this city
    We built this city
    We built this city
    On rock and roll 🎸
    slush funds and Aldi cash bags.

  11. Russell

    And Bill just forgot to mention that He/She who controls where industry super funds invest those working people’s capital have more power than any of the old financial institutions. So it’s much the same as it always has been – just different folk in command with different political agendas.
    Of course Jennifer Westacott would agree with Bill. Biz Council will follow the money even if it strangles them in their death throes.

  12. JC

    Bill, you didn’t create the wealth/savings that have gone into super, you fucking moron.

    Bromberg, needs to be dislodged from the bench. He’s a serious menace to the proper functioning of the country.

  13. jupes

    Well, I’m interested to note that the five biggest financial organisations – in 30 years’ time – will have been created in the back room of the ACTU! We created them. Every industry fund, we created … We created financial institutions out of super.

    Only because super contributions are compulsory.

    Now, it is not unions’ job to create wealth but it is unions’ job to understand how wealth is created and be involved in that creation of wealth…

    Indeed. Unions cooked it up with a Labor government.

  14. jupes

    Bill, you didn’t create the wealth/savings that have gone into super, you fucking moron.

    No but he created his wealth from it.

  15. RobK

    Super funds exist only because they have preferential tax treatment. No other skills required, no actual wealth created per se. They have a regulatory ring fence. People would be wealthier if tax on savings was reduced along with regulation and all its inefficiencies.

  16. The Beer Whisperer

    Created wealth is excess production minus waste. Because it is excess production that is traded, not subsistence production. Any surplus can be traded for anyone elses surplus. This is the entire nature of wealth, and the only nature of wealth.

    What Kelty is talking about is accumulated wealth plus returns on investment, the latter simply enabling surplus production elsewhere.

    It should surprise no one that Kelty knows nothing of wealth creation, so confuses it with cronyism which is simply cornering the market through maaaaaaates.

  17. Dr Fred Lenin

    Socialists never create wealth they consume it ,they are a negative factor inany country ,everything they touch turns to crap. Abolish the left for real progress .

  18. RobK

    It should surprise no one that Kelty knows nothing of wealth creation, so confuses it with cronyism which is simply cornering the market through maaaaaaates.
    Though it is disappointing that Westacott concurred.

  19. JC

    Another quota queen.

    The forum required its two speakers to answer the question, Do unions help or harm the economy? Jennifer Westacott – Chief Executive of the Business Council – spoke next:

    I agree with everything Bill just said.

    Bio

    The Business Council of Australia is the nation’s premier business organisation, advocating for a stronger and fairer society through a more prosperous Australia.

    Jennifer Westacott AO has served as Chief Executive of the Business Council of Australia since 2011, bringing a unique combination of extensive policy experience in both the public and private sectors.

    Under her leadership, the Business Council tirelessly champions meaningful policies that strengthen the ability of businesses to grow the economy for the benefit of all Australians.

    Jennifer built her career in the public sector, working in senior leadership positions in the NSW and Victorian governments.

    She has served as the Director General of the NSW Department of Infrastructure, Planning and Natural Resources; the Secretary of the Victorian Department of Education and Training; and the Director of Housing in Victoria.

    She was also the Deputy Director General of the NSW Department of Community Services, and the Deputy Director General of the NSW Department of Housing.

    As a senior partner at KPMG, Jennifer advised major corporations on climate change and sustainability and advised governments across Australia on significant reform priorities.

    Jennifer has an unrivalled understanding of how the public and private sectors intersect and can work together to achieve the best outcomes in the national interest.

    Since 2013, Jennifer has served as a Non‑Executive Director of Wesfarmers Limited.

    She is the Chair of the Western City & Aerotropolis Authority, which is overseeing the design and delivery of the Western Sydney Aerotropolis. The global employment centre and investment hub will surround the Western Sydney International (Nancy-Bird Walton) Airport at Badgerys Creek.

    Jennifer is an Adjunct Professor at the City Futures Research Centre of the University of NSW.

    She is the inaugural Chair of the Board of Studio Schools of Australia, and a patron of Mental Health Australia.

    Jennifer also serves as the Australian Co-chair of the Australia-Canada Economic Leadership Forum Organising Committee, the Co-Patron of Pride in Diversity, and as a patron of the Pinnacle Foundation.

    In 2018, Jennifer was made an Officer (AO) in the General Division of the Order of Australia.

    Jennifer has a Bachelor of Arts (Honours) from the University of New South Wales and in 2017 received an Honorary Degree (Doctor of Letters) from her alma mater. She was a Chevening Scholar at the London School of Economics.

    Has she been on Q&A?

  20. Indigo

    Judge Bromberg – the man who got Toyota to stop making cars in Australia. This judge is so left wing he makes a joke of the judiciary.

  21. It is quite frightening to realise just what political and economic power the union movement has created via the industry superannuation funds. The latter control vast amounts of investment funds & may well be the most significant influence over social policy in the future.

  22. Scott Osmond

    Bromberg. Every. single. time.

  23. BrettW

    Just so that you know where the power lies in Qld check out the sign at top of the recently built Tower of Power holding Qld Govt offices.

    Large sign is for CBus Super which is Super Fund for the CFMMEU.

    Was not there when building first completed but added over a year later.

    Any Govt HQ buildings in other states have similar signs ?.

    I also note the new Hotel / Casino site by Brisbane river now infested with CFMMEU flags. Builder of the casino are Star who just happened to donate $4,000 worth of food and drink (in their premises) to serving Qld AG for her re-election campaign. AG has control over casino legislation etc but not a problem apparently.

  24. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    I agree with everything Bill just said.

    She might as well not have heard it first, either.

  25. The BigBlueCat

    Kelty should have said “no, unions don’t build wealth, but we sure try to exploit it for the comrades”.

  26. W Hogg

    Bromberg, needs to be dislodged from the bench. He’s a serious menace to the proper functioning of the country.

    If you were listed to appear before Bromberg J, you would just plead and accept the plea deal, or pay whatever the plaintiff demands to settle.

  27. struth

    Jennifer Westacott – Chief Executive of the Business Council – spoke next:

    I agree with everything Bill just said.

    Bloody hell, looks like she’s done everything except run a business.

  28. The Beer Whisperer

    The Beer Whisperer
    #3245518, posted on November 26, 2019 at 3:21 pm
    Created wealth is excess production minus waste.

    Any comment on this by resident economists? It might be crude, but I see it as broadly true.

  29. Petros

    So is the tax office a successful business then too? Compulsorily acquire other people’s money and then put it into your pet projects. Voila! A successful business. N’drangeta too?

  30. The Federal Court has ordered

    An unethical, morally bankrupt ALP stooge has ordered, temporarily…

  31. You’re right Beery.

    Wealth is the accumulated or amortised income flows (there are other ways to define this, but they ought to hgave the same result).

    Income is production minus inflation, regulation, taxes, government debt and the cost of this debt, wasteful government spending, the costs of the above in excess of their value (dead weight loss).

  32. Roger

    …in 30 years’ time the biggest owners of capital will actually be working people

    Only if a Socialist government doesn’t borrow/requisition/confiscate super in the meantime.

  33. Tel

    I don’t believe one single person would have put their Super into a Union fund if they had a choice in the matter. The only reason the unions got the money is that it’s compulsory, and the employers don’t fundamentally care provided they satisfy the requirements, and unions managed to push rules that make their fund the default in many cases.

    What that means is all the owners of the money have better things they could be doing with it, but are prevented from doing. Therefore wealth is being destroyed.

  34. Which is precisely why we have one “magistrate” hiding documents and a “judge” making ridiculous orders.

    The ALP & union racket is being threatened.

    Remember, it is a crime NOT to donate to their racket.

    Ask yourself: How are they practically or morally different to the n’Drangheta?

    Some people pretend to work on building sites, and some people pretend to be orange farmers.

  35. Entropy

    Just so that you know where the power lies in Qld check out the sign at top of the recently built Tower of Power holding Qld Govt offices.

    that would be the tower of Mordor.

  36. Arky

    I give it the next eight months till the recession really hits, and no bastard will want to take credit for the massive amount of on paper wealth that we will see dissolve away in those super funds.
    Interview the blighter then and see if he wants to take credit.
    Boomers and early X- ers will need to work until they are 90.

  37. Biota

    Plus their heavy investment in ruinables.

  38. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    in 30 years’ time …

    … this country won’t exist.

  39. Dr Fred Lenin

    A Dr Fred government will Nationalise union and union super assets , whats good for the goose you know .
    How do you like them little green apples comrades ?

  40. Rob MW

    Now, it is not unions’ job to create wealth but it is unions’ job to understand how wealth is created and be involved in that creation of wealth …

    Lol…..why of course you do Bill, without this understanding how the fuck can union bosses extort other people’s money to get paid ?

    I agree with everything Bill just said.

    Oh dear !

  41. Louis Litt

    I see what is happening with people like Westacott. If she worked at KPMG as an accountant or lawyer at a director level she would be working 50 to 60 hrs per week plus having to do 40 hours of prof development. There is no way she would be on any of those token positions. She should simply would not have time and to deal with the unexpected which occurs every day.
    Westacott is not a fit to preside over the business council of Australia.
    It’s an insult to all businesses owners and those working in private sector.
    Only now do her previous comments on business make sense- she simply does not understand business.

  42. classical_hero

    Corruption is legal in Australia.

  43. classical_hero

    WTH? JC, she must have a magic vagina which makes her superior.

  44. Mother Lode

    …in 30 years’ time the biggest owners of capital will actually be working people

    Will working people be able to dispose of that wealth as they see fit? Of the wealth so far accumulated by people working can they buy a car? Go to a casino? Splash out on a painting they love?

    Most of the time they do not enjoy ownership. The superfunds do. The legislation forces the unions to disgorge the loot – but they make no concessions to ‘ownership’ until they have to.

    But, at bottom, it is money taken from people and spent as the fund wishes, so wukkaz start out by being denied their ownership.

  45. NuThink

    I agree with everything Bill just said.

    But did she do a Bill Shorten and not hear what Bill Kelty said, but agree anyway with whatever he said?

  46. NuThink

    in 30 years’ time the biggest owners of capital will actually be working people

    But they have no choice in how their capital is used – similar to landowners who are not allowed to reduce the fuel load in fire risk areas on their own properties. So their capital can burn to the ground and they just have to watch it and be thankful that the unions are watching over it. Not forgetting the bean counters and legal eagles also watching over it.

    If unions are so necessary to wealth creation, there must be a squillion powerful unions in China and India.

  47. Bruce

    @classical hero:

    “Corruption is legal in Australia.”

    More like it is COMPULSORY.

    The Rum Corps LIVES!!

Comments are closed.