Update. Greta goes full Marxist. + Alarming news for alarmists etc.

HOT OFF THE PRESS. Greta announces that the climate crisis

Is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all.

Moving on to the original post about the public perception of the climate issue. This looks like a pretty useless project apart from some findings from their survey.

The current research used two representative postal surveys of the UK public to: measure scepticism and uncertainty about climate change

Findings show denial of climate change is less common than the perception that the issue has been exaggerated.

Between 2003 and 2008, public uncertainty about climate change has remained remarkably constant, although belief that claims about the issue are exaggerated has doubled over that period.

That is a very interesting result and it should alarm the alarmists although the result dates from 2011 and an update could change the picture. Still it is consistent with Jo Nova’s recent observation that it is easy get people to say they are concerned about climate change if you ask the right questions but when you look closer three things emerge, one is that people are really concerned about environmental issues at large rather than warming, second climate change does not rate among their real concerns and thirdly (following from that) they are not prepared to put their hand in their pockets any spend anything to stop it.

WINDWATCH: Last night at the peak wind delivered 14.5% of demand. At the morning peak it was blowing at 60% of plated capacity and providing 16% of demand. That is about as good as it gets.

 

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32 Responses to Update. Greta goes full Marxist. + Alarming news for alarmists etc.

  1. Why do you think the climate worriers have started to use terms such as ‘climate emergency’, changing the language and making even wilder claims about tipping points?

  2. Bruce of Newcastle

    Very old survey. We’ve had another 15 odd years since then of no significant warming, and none at all if you correct for the el Ninos since 2015.

    Yet in that time pCO2 has risen 10% in absolute terms, and 30% relative to the preindustrial baseline. But without any measurable effect.

    Except of course for climate hysteria which has gone off scale.

    (I’m basing my comment on the satellite and radiosonde balloon data, as the terrestrial temperature series are notoriously fake due to UHIE and many rounds of “adjustments” of historical readings downwards.)

  3. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    they are not prepared to put their hand in their pockets any spend anything to stop it

    Which is why we have stupid gullible treasonous and utterly corrupt politicians forcing us to do so.

  4. JohnJJJ

    All claims of exaggeration are exaggerated.

  5. Mother Lode

    Belief in exaggeration is what you would expect as people begin to abandon AGW.

    It is akin to a quantitative rather than qualitative change – it would involve overturning of mental furniture to go from gull to sceptic. Certainly some people have made the leap to reason, but in each case it was forced upon them by revelations as to how unscientific the AGW parade has been.

    For most people you would expect them to have trouble grasping how much they have been lied to and how gullible they must have been – it takes a while to work through it all and admit your folly.

    And this is separate from the deliberately imprecise expression ‘denial of climate change’, of which their will be very few who outright deny climate changes but which expression is used to cover people who…think the theory is deliberately exaggerated.

    I believe climate changes. I believe it has done so constantly. I believe it is so real that it has contributed to historical events. So far not a denier.

    I believe CO2 has in impact. I do not believe it is the only impact nor even the dominant one.

    But they hold that this makes me ‘denier’ – an expression they chose because it carries the sense that what is ‘denied’ is an ineluctable truth and a ‘denier’ is on the wrong side of history. (Like the expression ‘to be in denial’ – it does not mean merely to disagree.)

    So, on the whole, and taking into account how carefully they arranged their methodology to disguise what is really happening to the intellectual climate (should we say ‘adjust the data’?) I would say things are definitely looking up.

  6. Tel

    What is “The Environment” defined as? It’s everything, isn’t it?

    So “Save the Environment” really translates to “Save Everything” which is equivalent to saying “Save Nothing”.

  7. mem

    Belief in exaggeration is what you would expect as people begin to abandon AGW.

    Agree with everything you say. Moving to an “AGW is exaggerated position” protects the ego, avoids confrontation, can be adopted without anyone really noticing and distances one from the screaming alarmists that have gone a step to far.

  8. Genghis

    For what it is worth – information.
    It appears that 480 ma (Pre-Cambrian to Cambrian boundary) CO2 was around 7,000ppm. Now that was when an explosion of plant life occurred on the early continents climaxing in the Carboniferous & Permiam great coal measures. Why was 7,000ppm CO2 needed, it is because sea plants found more food in atmospheric conditions so moved onshore. Perhaps several million years later animals left the sea following the plants and here we are.

  9. Tim Neilson

    and none at all if you correct for the el Ninos since 2015

    Serious question Bruce – is it valid to “correct” for el Ninos? Aren’t they a normal part of the cycle?

  10. Ben

    As the media begin to realise that most people think climate alarmism is exaggerating the consequences of climate change, the media will exaggerate more, in an attempt to secure more political support for the alarmist cause.

    Keep going I say, because ever greater exaggeration will eventually result in the “boy who cried wolf” scenario being realised in real time.

    The left will self-combust on this issue.

    We just need to keep politicians into real issues until the tide turns.

  11. RobertS

    This from their ABC:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-02/perth-has-gone-three-summers-without-heatwave-but-its-warming-up/11753340
    The journo states “Heatwaves are Australia’s deadliest natural hazard, killing more people than cyclones, floods and bushfires combined”.
    No mention, of course, of the number of people killed by extreme cold.

  12. Heatwaves are Australia’s deadliest natural hazard, killing more people than cyclones, floods and bushfires combined.

    The problem with this is that it doesn’t break down the demographics, circumstances etc of the heatwave related deaths.

    I don’t want to go ferreting for the information, but I seem to recollect that deaths from heat have fallen over the decades as workplace rules have changed, air conditioning has become more common and medical treatment has advanced.

    Workers rarely keep working nowadays once the temperature reaches a set figure and work safety plays a part as well, the elderly who are the most susceptible to heat and cold are now better protected by such things as air conditioning (until we start running out of power) and medical treatment for heat exhaustion etc has advanced in leaps and bounds (including emergency response).

    And, unfortunately, these ‘statistics’ place anything that might be considered heat related into the one category, ignoring that there may well be a combination of many factors contributing to the deaths and heat may only be a minor contributing factor. For example, someone over-exerting themselves on a hot day (such a jogger recently who went jogging on a very hot day and suffered a heart attack) will have the event blamed on a heatwave.

  13. mem

    The weather news on Elders weather site proclaims that Melbourne has the driest spring in over a decade. No doubt not enough heat down here to proclaim the hottest ever. But let’s get back to that driest claim. Perhaps true in the CBD. But some 25 km north east of Melbourne we have had lots of rain so that despite a dry start to the year we caught up during spring and surpassed last year’s rainfall by 25 percent. This has also allowed our dams to fill to levels above last year. This year dams are now filled to 63.84 percent compared to last year at this time 61.89 percent. You would think this is good news but not for the warmist media.

  14. Bruce of Newcastle

    Serious question Bruce – is it valid to “correct” for el Ninos? Aren’t they a normal part of the cycle?

    Tim – The el Ninos of 2015-6, 2017-8 and the weak Modoki one this year mean that you will get a trend upwards in a regression line starting in 2000. That trend upwards isn’t reflective of long term climate but the fact that the endpoint happens to be a high point due to the phase that ENSO happened to be in. The climateers do not claim el Ninos are caused by CO2. Indeed there’s more data suggesting they have a ~60 year cyclical component, which is not silly since there’s such a signal in the PDO too.

    One of the things the climateers have been doing lately is to finish their temperature graphs in 2017, which neatly ends on the el Nino. That alone is a big tell that they are faking for political effect. Note also that graph, which was recently shown at The Conversation, doesn’t have the satellite or balloon data included – only the corrupted terrestrial data. Which is another tell that it is political not scientific.

  15. Mother Lode

    The journo states “Heatwaves are Australia’s deadliest natural hazard, killing more people than cyclones, floods and bushfires combined”.

    Imagine how many more will die without aircon. Yet that is the only solution they will accept.

    Morons all.

  16. CO2 was around 7,000ppm

    Q. Did this cause runaway warming?
    A. No.

  17. Boambee John

    Using “Climate Change” instead of “Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming” is a double barrelled cop out.

    First, there can be few sentient beings (which excludes most alarmists) who do not accept that the climate has been changing for millenia, and will continue to change.

    Second, it diverts attention from the reality that global warming as currently measured is essentially an artifact of adjustments to the historical records combined with poorly located data collection points.

  18. Ubique

    Wind might have peaked at 16% of demand but that didn’t mean anyone stopped home from work at coal or gas fired power plants. It didn’t mean that the overhead costs at these plants dropped by a dollar either.

  19. Rob MW

    It’s hard not to feel a fair bit of pity for the reportedly medically unhinged Greta, another child star who’s adult handlers are making a life’s time fortune from an indoctrinated angry juvenile parrot. It’s probably more unfortunate that the poor thing will never know the difference between lucidity and confusion.

  20. John A

    RobertS #3249712, posted on December 2, 2019 at 10:07 am

    This from their ABC:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-02/perth-has-gone-three-summers-without-heatwave-but-its-warming-up/11753340
    The journo states “Heatwaves are Australia’s deadliest natural hazard, killing more people than cyclones, floods and bushfires combined”.
    No mention, of course, of the number of people killed by extreme cold.

    a) Three summers without a heatwave therefore contradicts the “hotter every year” mantra
    b) extreme cold – we don’t have any in Australia. It’s all in the polar regions
    c) most of the population of the world avoids the polar regions and congregates in the tropic and temperate regions
    d) how many polar explorers survived? Scott of the Antarctic: “I am just going outside and may be some time.”

  21. Dr Faustus

    CO2 was around 7,000ppm
    Q. Did this cause runaway warming?
    A. No.

    From a purely geological perspective, the data for the past 500ma shows that the temperature/climate/CO2 relationship is far more complicated than the two factor dCO2 = dT model that underpins Gretaesque alarmism.

    If you had to pick a single factor for major temperature shifts, you would probably pick changes to the ocean currents caused by breakup events of Pangaea and the subsequent continental movements.

  22. how many polar explorers survived?

    Amundsen. Did it in a canter.

  23. Snoopy

    Amundsen. Did it in a canter.

    I thought he used dogs?

  24. Lee

    Is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all.

    I am not in the least bit surprised, having seen a photo of the sanctimonious little brat and her parents wearing pro-Marxist T-shirts.

  25. Kurt

    I’d love to see the government do what the Bolshevils did after the revolution: tell Greta her parents house has been seized. They will now live in one room while 3 refugee families will now have a room each in the house. They can share the kitchen and bathroom with 15 extra people now living in the house.

  26. cohenite

    Alarmism is based on a lie and corruption of the scientific method. The irony is if you look around you find enough evidence within the alarmist circles – in IPCC reports and older papers – to refute the bodgy science of alarmism. Take this 1978 paper for instance published by NOAA which clearly shows no correlation between CO2 and GAT during the studied period; see figure 11:

    https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0493(1978)106%3C0755%3AGTVSMA%3E2.0.CO%3B2

  27. JC

    Take this 1978 paper for instance published by NOAA which clearly shows no correlation between CO2 and GAT during the studied period; see figure 11:

    Cronkers, update yourself a little. Linking a 1978 paper without any qualifier there my be more up to date papers is very ghey. The preceding stuff is okay though. Shape up.

  28. a happy little debunker

    People are suffering less. People are dying less.
    Entire ecosystems are not collapsing.
    We are in the beginning of a mass survival and all you can talk about is the money and fairy-tales of eternal economic redistribution.
    How dare you?

  29. JC

    How dare you?

    No no, it’s how dare you!!?

  30. Zatara

    UN General Secretary General Antonio Guterres, the former Socialist president of Portugal, kicked off the international Climate Summit today.

    “These last five years have been the hottest in history, the sea level is reaching record levels, the oceans are acidifying, polar caps are melting, land and marine diversity is threatened, natural disasters are increasingly frequent and destructive, drought is increasing at an alarming rate and pollution associated with climate change has claimed seven million lives

    They just can’t help themselves from over-egging the pudding. Even when the pudding was made of bovine excrement to begin with.

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