Sovereign Immunity

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38 Responses to Sovereign Immunity

  1. stackja

    TL 25 question to answer.

  2. sfw

    I don’t know about other states but in Vic the police are exempt from most traffic laws and firearms law, probably other exemptions as well. Do as I say, not as I do.

  3. nfw

    No doubt ensuring Maccas was ready with the Happy Meal. I have seen numerous examples of police drivers breaking laws as they are a law unto themselves while wearing their anti-terrorist military style uniforms aren’t they? No doubt there will be a lot of data surfing going on to track down the real criminal, you know, the one who took the photo.

  4. Fred

    I was in Camberwell and saw a police car illegally parked in a no standing zone.

    Then an officer emerged from a Chinese restaurant with some takeaway, hopped in the car and drove off.

    Laws are for the little people.

  5. struth

    Noticing her proximity to the guardrail and the clear view of the wheel I’d say she is stopped in this case.
    Not that it doesn’t happen.

  6. flyingduk

    Then end of the wedge wot? No doubt they would argue exemption based on special need and superior training?

  7. Tel

    It’s very dangerous when you do it, but we have special powers that make it much safer.

    Yeah, yeah, there isn’t a whole lot of point in government taxing itself, and the purpose of the exercise is revenue raising … don’t you forget that.

  8. Mark A

    Tel
    #3252448, posted on December 5, 2019 at 7:37 am

    It’s very dangerous when you do it, but we have special powers that make it much safer.

    Yeah, yeah, there isn’t a whole lot of point in government taxing itself, and the purpose of the exercise is revenue raising … don’t you forget that.

    All true, but using the phone is more dangerous than being slightly over .05.
    Having said that, the police should abide by the same rule, no amount of training will save you when distracted by the phone.

  9. nb

    I’d like to know what shutter speed combined with road speed would (not quite?) freeze the wheel hub.

  10. Jonesy

    Mark A, exactly! This same law exemption was quashed in the 90s wrt cb handpiece use. Remove the exemption or remove the law! The police and ems aren’t the only trained professionals on the road.

  11. The Fifth Bike Rider of the Apocalypse

    From the SA Government’s My Licence website outlining when you can use a mobile phone in a vehicle:
    Drivers of police or emergency vehicles are exempt.

  12. Robbo

    Having respect for the police is getting to be a much harder ask than it once was. In Victoria the morale of the police is so low that the vast majority of its members only do the minimum because that is what poor leadership requires. Force Command comprises a bunch of partisan political appointees who have little or no regard for going the extra mile to protect the community. The only thing those peanuts are interested in protecting is their respective arses.

  13. Tel

    Drivers of police or emergency vehicles are exempt.

    A public admission that the purpose is revenue and nothing to do with safety.

  14. struth

    When I used to drive oversize loads that were big enough for police escort, all of us had to be in communications with each other via UHF.
    I have, many times, driven down the road with an 8 metre wide switch room , a great procession of cops and pilots , all of whom I’m talking to with the handheld mike in my hand and tackling 18 gears.
    And that’s the law.
    One day, I was expecting a phone call because my next load had been permitted to go the wrong way by the idiots in the rego department and it was completely unsafe route.
    I was empty and stopped at the lights when my phone rang and I answered it.
    It must have been about six in the morning.
    From a side street, a cop car turned on it’s siren and lights, waking the neibourhood and screaming down the street faster than fifty………………..
    Geez, I wonder where they were going I thought.

    They were after me.
    I think the fine was 7oo bucks or so, being a heavy vehicle.
    One of the last fines I ever got before I told Australia to shove it’s transport industry up it’s arse.

  15. Eyrie

    Not only park, but turn off the engine before using the phone in Qld. Too dangerous with the engine running.

  16. Mark A

    Speaking of police, it’s astounding, at least for me, how few police cars on the road and police in general I see here in Hungary. I mean in the 2 years I have been living here I counted about 4 and I drive a lot and long distances going to Poland and Czechia.

    I’m sure they are around but using their time for better things.

    Speed limit is generally 90K unless displayed and I have never seen anyone driving at less than a 110 on those roads with 90k limit.
    Must admit the country roads are getting to the stage of disrepair of our rural roads in OZ so on those minor roads you’d be lucky to do 70 to 80.

    Beware on freeways , cameras every few miles, I got a $135 fine for speeding.

  17. struth

    I was empty and stopped at the lights when my phone rang and I answered it.

    I also answered it because I knew the phone call was in regards to the unsafe route the “authorities” wanted me to take and it was an urgent phone call because they take days, and weeks, sometimes months, to change the slightest detail, costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in being screwed around.
    Due to public servant idiocy I had to answer that call.
    And I was empty and stopped at the lights.
    When I loaded the load , I was heading down the road with a seven metre wide load and constantly talking to the cop escorts while doing so, and , believe it or not, ( as all gov departments want their money out of a wide load), the railway guys put it in the permit that they have to come out and watch me going over a level crossing, but I had to ring them a half hour before I get to said crossing……………………….which I was reminded to do by an escort cop (mostly near retirement good old blokes) while driving.

  18. RobK

    Was the picture taken by the driver of the passing car?
    The cop car appears to have a passenger who may have been a better choice to answer a call.

  19. JohnnMichelmore

    “Sarge, My two way radios are not working so I’m calling you on my phone while engaged in a high speed pursuit. Yes I know that’s unlawfull, but what else can I do? These are extenuating circumstances aren’t they?”

  20. Up The Workers!

    At least while she is on the phone whilst driving, she isn’t locking up any more innocent Cardinals for Dodgy Dan’s virulently anti-Christian “Get Pell Squad”, or criminally forging another 258,000 fraudulent Breath-tests to make this years dodgy Labor(sic) crime stats look as good as last years, or turning a blind eye, deaf ear, dumb tongue and greased palm to all the many instances of Labor(sic) Parliamentarians rorting, cheating, scamming and tickling the taxpayers’ till.

  21. John Barr

    Yes, I saw one on the phone stopped at a Red Light. when the light turned Green he didn’t bother to put the Phone down but pulled the Police Car around the corner with one hand. He was having trouble. He didn’t take the phone from his ear.

    I indicated to him after we got around the corner & he pulled me over for a Vehicle Check (New Car) I asked him what Station he was from & for the number of the Station to ring his Chief.

    He told me to get going. I guess he was embarrassed.

    Note: I’ve had two friends killed by people on phones & I had to lift a 90 ton Diesel of another friend in Townsville because the driver of the Semi was on the phone going through a flashing Red light at a Crossing. I don’t like people on phones in the car.

  22. Roger

    Noticing her proximity to the guardrail and the clear view of the wheel I’d say she is stopped in this case.

    The hub cap appears to be in motion.

  23. Dr Fred Lenin

    Fifth bike rider ,do you still have a state government? I thought it expired when you ingrate threw out weatherill the ultimate premier who de electrified the state to save the gerbils . The media never mention any government there ,nor liberal party in Victoria ,funny that.

  24. Brian

    Curious photo. There appears to be a passenger indeed – but they are reaching over and taking hold of the steering wheel as if to assist her taking the call.

  25. Mundi

    This is what qld law says “ The driver of a vehicle (except an emergency vehicle or police vehicle) must not use a mobile phone that the driver is holding in the driver’s hand while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked”

    Rules for thee but not for me

  26. Perfidious Albino

    TL25 indicates Tuggerah Lakes LAC on the NSW Central Coast

  27. Krandy

    Howdy all

    Serving SA cop….It’s a horrible look and I encourage my subordinates to refrain from abusing the privilege unless it’s a necessity. In this particular situation the passenger is holding the computer, not the steering wheel (why the passenger is not taking the call idk).

    There are circumstances where mobile phone use is unavoidable – the radio is clogged up with some twat loving the sound of their own voice on a traffic stop / higher ups want a briefing on a job you’re going to or just resolved / radio system has crashed. It’s rare and I agree it’s not a good look (you get made to ‘pay’ punishment food or drinks if you can’t justify it in SAPOL) ; but, knee-jerk reactions are for the infantile left, not the centre and right.

    Cheers

    Krandy

  28. Amesjay

    Sorry Krandy, that’s a cop out. (Couldn’t resist).

    Of course mobile phone use while driving is ALWAYS avoidable. If you absolutely 100% must make a call using the actual phone (as opposed to handsfree), then stop the car. Turn the engine off. Maybe even get out, depending on what the law requires wherever you happen to be. Perfectly simple.

    “I had to use my phone because the call was really important and my radio isn’t working” wouldn’t be accepted as a legitimate excuse for a civilian, would it? Of course not, and quite rightly so.

    Nothing at all to do with political persuasion, and everything to do with preventing needless deaths on our roads.

  29. Tator

    Krandy,
    as a retired SAPOL member, I can recall the liberal usage of the Buns Act.
    Plus as Rule 300 of the Australian Road Rules states, Police are exempt whilst in Police Vehicles. In addition, another little gem of information, the SAGRN radios under the Australian Road Rules are classified as mobile phones as they do have the capacity to make phone calls.
    As a long term Comms dispatcher, I can attest to the amount of radio traffic involved in daily police use and there are times when usage of mobile phones is actually preferential to police radio purely due to the amount of information and time required.
    Many people do not realise that SA Police actually have legislated immunity to many pieces of legislation via Section 65 of the Police Act 1998.

  30. Pyrmonter

    @ Tator

    Immunity may be one thing; unwisdom is another. The logic of the prohibition is that distracted driving is dangerous. Allowing that police drivers may be better trained than the average motorist, I haven’t read anywhere of some means by which police drivers are immune to the consequences of distraction. Which distraction costs lives:

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-02/drivers-urged-to-stop-using-mobile-phones-behind-the-wheel/9255482

  31. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Oh the bed wetting!

    I see the view put forward here that when a mobile phone call comes in the police should always (love those absolutes) be ready to stop their vehicle, remove the ignition key and alight to take the call away from the road … “perfectly simple”. I suppose it is if you are prepared to take the odds that they are not en route to your emergency call.

    When the nancy boys complained about police accepting McDonalds burgers for free the departmental hierarchy should have told them (and the minister) to get stuffed, and suggested they offer themselves as assistant constables on weekends for the price of a corrupting Maccas meal deal.

    Similarly when the minister decreed police should not travel to work on public transport in uniform and armed – the union ought to have suggested he forego the chauffeur and himself catch the last train home every night.

    Commenters here are a bit carried away with their uneducated opinion on how ordinary police should do their job from day to day, demanding levels of excellence I doubt they can attain themselves.

  32. Knuckle Dragger

    I have yet to hear of a complaint being made about any copper who rings the victim of an assault or burglary and says they’ll be late because they can’t find a parking spot.

    In any event, the entirety of the abovementioned nonsense is cause by *traffic* cops. Real ones operate on common sense.

  33. Tator

    Pyrmonter,
    that is a given, but considering that there are a few other factors involved like that Police are trained to drive in emergency situations whilst using the police radio with a bucketload more intense driving instruction than most normal motorists. Plus there are times where monitoring multiple radio sources are required by solo patrols so monitoring more than one radio is required. I spent 6 years driving basically on the wrong side of the road doing OD escorts having to monitor both the police radio and the CB constantly, going through RED lights AND directing traffic with a closing speed of up to 200km/h without having any prangs whilst doing so and was able to do so because I had that training. Not everyone can do that, not even every police officer could do it as many sent to PEG couldn’t cope with the stress.
    But then again, I couldn’t cope with the constant confrontational duties of general patrol duties and sought roles outside of front line response work.
    NO police are not infallible AND when it can be proven that police drove without due care whilst utilising these immunities, police officers are charged and it is done regularly, especially with things like speed cameras where there is no legitimate reason for doing so.
    Policing is a unique occupation where these immunities are required just to do the job to the best of the departments ability. They are not to be abused either but are simply a tool of trade that is used on a regular basis. But they are there to make policing more efficient and effective and to protect police officers doing the job properly.
    Plus the sheer impracticality of police using bluetooth kits in their cars due to the large number of police using any one fleet during its period of usage as patrols hotswap through fleets on a shift basis so in a week, up to 42 different individual police officers could be using the one fleet and most bluetooth systems max out at 8 to 10 different phones. The police radio system is very comprehensive with better coverage than most mobile phone networks, but it also has a very high rate of voice traffic as each talk group has at least 100 crews of various types logged on to that talk group and every single one of them wanting priority when they require it. I worked as a dispatcher for close to 10 years, and the shifts where the workload was bearable were minimal with the amount of voice traffic that the dispatcher has to control. Plus when the shit hits the fan, patrols want to be able to call for help, so tying the radio channel up with non-essential but required communications is really a bad practice as the radio dispatcher is the patrol officers lifeline.

  34. Overburdened

    Well below the level of intelligence or common sense that I would have expected from the poster.

    Fn wake up.

  35. Knuckle Dragger

    All these hitherto unknown punters popping up with ‘Oooooo, I saw the jacks parked in a no parking zone and they got food’ or ‘Aaaaaahh, I saw the fuzz talking on their phone and nothing happened’…..

    How do you know? How do you know nothing happened?

    In this day and age cops are (apparently) acutely aware that every single goddamned thing they do outside the station (and sometimes in it) is recorded by someone, somewhere eager for just this sort of opportunity. And they don’t just post it in Facebook. Very often they end up in The Filth (rumour indicates this is a colloquial term for internal affairs etc)’s office, and the cops concerned are charged with careless driving, or using a phone while driving or similar.

    And when that happens, they not only get the full fine or penalty from the court, if not a bit more because of their job but THEN get disciplinary action internally for bringing the job into disrepute in or some other catch-all offence. Double jeopardy, if you like, so I for one will make the fair assumption that the cops who do this have a damn good reason for doing so.

    I showed this to a mate of mine who’s in that line of work, and he said those comments were typical of the uninformed flogs that infest this country believing they know more about police work than the police themselves on account of watching three episodes of ‘Cops’ and a series of Blue Heelers.

    Knowitall fuckwits, he said.

  36. Tel

    I showed this to a mate of mine who’s in that line of work, and he said those comments were typical of the uninformed flogs that infest this country believing they know more about police work than the police themselves on account of watching three episodes of ‘Cops’ and a series of Blue Heelers.

    Knowitall fuckwits, he said.

    Quite similar to the way the police seem to think they know all about my driving better than I do, and whether it’s safe to do this or that. Knowitall fuckwits really.

    Oh wait, there is one thing they know very well indeed: revenue.

  37. Knuckle Dragger

    See my earlier comment, Tel.

    Traffic police are the root of all evil.

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