Freedom

No problem. The streets of Richmond, Virginia:


No helmet. The streets of Sydney, New South Wales:


The ABC is perplexed by liberty: Virginia rally shows what happens when the US tries to pass gun control laws.

This entry was posted in Libertarians don't live by argument alone, Take Nanny down. Bookmark the permalink.

104 Responses to Freedom

  1. Mother Lode

    The MSM will be toiling forlornly, straining their tiny brains trying to discover why there had not been a massacre.

  2. Infidel Tiger

    Very surprised Antifa didn’t disrupt the 2A rights protest.

    Why would that be?

  3. sfw

    The left always wants to take away our freedom, it’s the jellyback Libs that make it possible. John Howard and his gun laws, what else can you say? When Howard made a speech wearing body armour we all knew what he wanted, and he got it. We lost much then and I can’t see a way to get back what we had.

    Yet the Cat is always telling me what a great PM he was.

  4. C.L.

    Yet the Cat is always telling me what a great PM he was.

    Huh?

  5. sfw

    CL, perhaps you only see what you wish to see and disregard the rest.

  6. feelthebern

    Yet the Cat is always telling me what a great PM he was.

    That must have been another blog called the Cat.

  7. Bruce in WA

    We lost much then and I can’t see a way to get back what we had.

    Never going to happen.

  8. John Bayley

    That cyclist can count himself lucky that he had a bell on his bike.
    Otherwise it would be more than $500 in fines, instead of just the ~$330 for the no helmet.
    We’ve got our priorities right in Australia, that’s the main thing. /s

  9. Bruce of Newcastle

    Riding a bike like that he deserves it.
    Its only redeeming feature is it isn’t a girl’s bike.

  10. Zatara

    In all honesty, I’d have to say that was probably the most level headed and fair article I’ve seen from the ABC regarding a contentious issue in a very long time.

    Well done to the writer Emily Olson.

  11. classical_hero

    The left are disappointed that there was no violence. They did their best to blame it on white supremacy, but too many POC showed up.

  12. Beachcomber

    Yet the Cat is always telling me what a great PM he was.

    Yes, so much love for Howard at the Cat.

    The Worst Australian Prime Minister Since Whitlam

    We lost much then and I can’t see a way to get back what we had.

    You’re right about that and we have lost even more since. Like Bruce in WA says, it ain’t coming back.

  13. iain russell

    Why did the Their ABC not mention that the ‘disgruntled employee’ at Virginia Beach was an Afro-American? And why didn’t they mention that the shopkeepers in LA (1992) who were shooting the Afro-American looters were Korean?

  14. Cui Bono

    Agree Zatara. Apart from the framing (left-leaning as opposed to right wing) this is a pretty fair piece. Big improvement on Zoe Daniels who just regurgitated CNN garbage.

  15. Mother Lode

    That cyclist can count himself lucky that he had a bell on his bike.

    The bell was OK.

    He was being cited for not having little coloured plastic streamers from the ends of the handle-bars such as used to be attached to little girls’ bikes.

    They are now called ‘handle-bar mounted motion activated visibility enhancement devices’ and can only be retrofitted on a bike at certain approved dealerships for about $150. They then have to be checked and certified by a government verifier with a Cert IV in Plastic Tassle Installation and Certification for $50, and registered for $750 (for one year registration). There is also mandatory insurance which can cost anywhere upward of $250.

    Guy was playing with fire.

  16. Fair shake of the sauce

    I did enjoy one of the Virginia rally organisers response to msm question:
    MSM: aren’t you and your members worried about threats of violence by extremists at the rally?
    Response: no. Our members are worried about getting a space to park.

  17. Shy Ted

    Beta male. Stops for a cycling violation. What are they gonna do if you don’t stop? Get your number plate? I only hope he’s giving false details.

  18. Screw bikes and especially bloody MAMILs. The taxpayer funded dogooders moan about the state of health of Australians and our ‘obesity’ epidemic, yet the state and councils are doing everything in their power to prevent ‘enjoyable’ exercise. They make bike riding unpleasant, ban dogs from everywhere, impose stupid parking rules and payments everywhere etc.

    This is how bikes are ridden in Copenhagen.

    Here’s a bunch of happy Victoristanian MAMILs.

    Which group represent the everyday person?

  19. Petros

    So true, Bemused. I often think that as well. The Europeans ride their bikes for very practical reasons. The Aussies like to play dress up and aggressively hog the roads. It’s almost some sort of personality disorder.

  20. PB

    The cyclist pic sums up our new vagocracy better than any other pic I’ve seen lately.

  21. JB of Sydney/Shanghai

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BNefQQ9BeCh/?utm_source=ig_embed

    In the happy days of old, smoking, cycling, and manly headgear! No Lycra.

  22. calli

    feelthebern
    #3298574, posted on January 21, 2020 at 10:06 pm
    Yet the Cat is always telling me what a great PM he was.

    That must have been another blog called the Cat.

    For a very long time I thought he was. The Cat has edumacated me on his very real shortcomings.

    He made my old Dad feel like a criminal for owning a firearm. So he surrendered his beloved rabbit-stopper.

    That, of itself , was unforgivable.

  23. alans

    While I appreciate the Americans’ love of their constitution, particularly TRTBA, I am somewhat bemused with the photos showing wannabe “soldiers” showing off their weapon of choice. These weapons, ranging from semi auto [ easily converted to full auto ] military assault rifles to 50 cal barratt rifles. Apart from the small dick syndrome, what other use are these weapons for? I know rifles don’t kill people, but extending the right to some of those depicted, you wonder if the US is on some self imposed suicide path. single shot, bolt action is all that is required for hunting or pleasure [ rifle range ] shooting. Perhaps they yanks could amend their RTBA by legislating that these assault type rifles can only be carried by those enlisted in a regulated militia, that ensures practical weapons handling & safety. my 2 bobs worth

  24. That female knows she’s nothing without that gun and she looks ridiculous with high-vis gear and a police special helmet.

    The bell thing – what a stupid fucking law.

    Australians really need to read up on Wat Tyler and William Tell.

    That poor bloke is basically bowing to the Hapsburgs. He’s not being fined for his own good.

    I say that Trump has to defend the Virginian gun owners, it is his legal responsibility to do so under Amendment XIV and the Civil Rights Act. Bring out the FBI and Federalise the Virginia National Guard.

  25. While I appreciate the Americans’ love of their constitution, particularly TRTBA

    No you don’t.

    I am somewhat bemused with the photos showing wannabe “soldiers” showing off their weapon of choice.

    Some of them are likely war veterans.

    Apart from the small dick syndrome, what other use are these weapons for?

    You know this from your boyfriend?

    I know rifles don’t kill people, but extending the right to some of those depicted, you wonder if the US is on some self imposed suicide path. single shot, bolt action is all that is required for hunting or pleasure [ rifle range ] shooting.

    Professional hunters disagree. So do rooftop Koreans (you know, when law and order breaks down).

    Perhaps they yanks could amend their RTBA by legislating that these assault type rifles can only be carried by those enlisted in a regulated militia

    They probably ARE in the militias you thicko.

    that ensures practical weapons handling & safety. my 2 bobs worth

    I agree. The police shouldn’t be allowed to have more powerful weapons than lawfully armed civilians.

  26. struth

    Alans.
    Have a think about this.
    Since Howard took the guns away here, government has gone bezerk taking away our freedoms and becoming totalitarian.
    America is a super power because much or it’s population understand government is there to be controlled by the people and not the other way around.
    Australia is now a shit hole.
    Maybe that has something to do with tha attitude of people like you who never seem to see the little dick syndrome in public servants wandering around here armed to the teeth.
    You’ll be so hip and groovy the totalitarians in government love you.

  27. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “MAMILs”

    MAMILs?

    Of course, yes.

  28. calli

    Howard should have learned the lesson from PNG.

    After independence, the government resumed all firearms. Or tried to. The law-abiding handed theirs in, the intelligent realists kept theirs well hidden in case of an emergency, and the raskols…

  29. tgs

    single shot, bolt action is all that is required for hunting or pleasure [ rifle range ] shooting.

    While you’re objectively incorrect on both of those points, the more important question would be why do you think those are the only two legitimate uses for firearms?

  30. Arky

    Two responses to Alans.
    One from Dot a stream of abuse likely to put the dude off and repel anyone of a like mind lurking.
    The other from Struth making the same points convincingly without the gratuitous abuse.
    Take some time out Dot.
    You are effectively a troll for the other side like this.

  31. Arky

    Of course it is possible Dot wrote the “Hi Alans” in order to be able to deliver the rebuke.
    If so the effect is the same.

  32. EvilElvis

    I’m ok with both pictures actually. Both issues come back to individuals and personal responsibility. The fact that if the bike rider comes off, whacks his head and becomes anything from a paraplegic to a machine reliant vegie and I have to contribute to his care is the problem. Do what you want, don’t affect other people, don’t affect other people’s property, don’t affect public property, pay for your own mistakes.

  33. I’m ok with both pictures actually.

    Two completely different stories being told in those pictures.

    The first picture shows a government understanding that riding about slowly and aware of your surroundings doesn’t require government intervention.

    The second picture shows a government thinking every bike rider is a MAMIL/MAWIL going about head down, arse up, expecting every other road user to watch out for them as they weave all over the road, ride three abreast along narrow roads and not giving a fuck about anyone else. And Australian road rules always assume the car driver is guilty.

  34. C.L.

    The old ‘I support the state because I don’t want to pay for somebody’s broken back’ is usually wheeled into these discussions. If taken to its sincere and logical conclusion, helmets would be mandatory for drivers, skiers, footballers, fishermen and dozens of other pastimes. It’s no coincidence that much of the state terrorism in modern history had its origins in committees of “public safety.”

  35. alans

    @ Frank; Frank you miss the point, the right to firearms must be a 2 way responsibility. A responsibility to society and responsibility in the safe handling & storage of such weapons. You obviously haven’t seen too many of those utube videos where “enthusiasts” go out a loose off thousands of rounds, ranging from 5.56 mm right up to 20mm / 40 mm and even cannon. I knew I should have qualified my statement re single shot weapons and exempted professional hunters, but I do stand by what I say in that, if you can’t knock down your target with your first shot, you probably shouldn’t be out there. As for the rest of your gratuitious “advice” Go and get well & truly fucked

  36. C.L.

    So true, Bemused. I often think that as well. The Europeans ride their bikes for very practical reasons. The Aussies like to play dress up and aggressively hog the roads.

    There’s this thing called the Tour de France – which Europeans follow with a religious fervour.

    No, that’s nonsense. (Said as a non-rider, by the way). I’ve written about this before. When helmets became mandatory, Australian adults felt self-conscious and stupid wearing them. What many of them started doing was matching the head kit with attire that rhymed. While a man looks a goose on a 1975 Malvern Star wearing a helmet, he could at least (in his own mind) look logical decked out in an ensemble. The style of bike followed, then the pants, then the fancy shirts, then the shoes, then the cult of it all. George Costanza once said he wished wearing velvet was more socially acceptable for men. What the bike helmet made socially acceptable was being an amateur he-man of the pedal.

  37. While a man looks a goose on a 1975 Malvern Star wearing a helmet,

    There are two completely different cycling groups in Australia, the normal people who wear whatever they feel like when they get on a bike (like those in Copenhagen) and then there are the Lycra wearing MAMILs.

    The former buy simple bikes that do the job and don’t care how they look, apart from the ridiculous helmet. The latter buy hugely expensive treadlies, expensive Lycra (possibly stuffed with soft toys to make them look more manly) with all their favourite treadly racer’s names and products written on them, expensive go-fast helmets and they usually ride in large clusters to ensure that they make the biggest impact.

    Two completely different breeds of human being.

  38. John of Mel

    I knew I should have qualified my statement re single shot weapons and exempted professional hunters,

    It looks like the assumption you’ve made is that the 2nd amendment is there to protect the rights of hunters, which it isn’t.

  39. Robber Baron

    Communist Australia

  40. John Bayley

    There are two completely different cycling groups in Australia, the normal people who wear whatever they feel like when they get on a bike (like those in Copenhagen) and then there are the Lycra wearing MAMILs.

    Very true.
    I would just add that the first group is slowly becoming extinct, in no small part because the helmet, bike bells and similar retarded laws.
    When you’re riding your – very ordinary – bike from work (some 3 kms) on a quiet side road in a regional town bothering nobody, and a police car chucks a screaming U-turn with sirens on to issue you with a $130 fine for not having a bell, you give the activity up.
    Personal experience.

  41. sfw:

    Yet the Cat is always telling me what a great PM he was.

    John Howard got a lot of support from quite a few commentators on the Cat, but as his sins have slowly come to light, it has become obvious he was a poor PM from the Rights perspective.
    It’s been a damn long time since John Howard was spoken of uncritically on these pages.

  42. John Bayley

    The old ‘I support the state because I don’t want to pay for somebody’s broken back’ is usually wheeled into these discussions.

    Apart from the minor problem that bike helmets are almost utterly ineffective in cyclist/car accidents (i.e. the usually the most serious ones), my response to the ‘paying for someone else’s care’ is simple:
    Let me opt out of paying the Medicare levy and I will happily cover the entire cost of my own medical treatment should I need it.
    Of course, that is not allowed either.
    Socialism: First we force everyone to be part of the system, and then we use that as an excuse to take away your freedom to do what you want, even if you’re not endangering anyone else, because ‘we’d have to pay for your health care.’

  43. Iain Russell:

    Why did the Their ABC not mention that the ‘disgruntled employee’ at Virginia Beach was an Afro-American? And why didn’t they mention that the shopkeepers in LA (1992) who were shooting the Afro-American looters were Korean?

    The issue you describe is similar to the Soviet citizens reading Pravda in the old Soviet Union – you have to read not only the stuff that is there, but the stuff that isn’t.
    For example if the nationality isn’t mentioned, it will be one of the protected cliques – Blacks/Mislums/wyminsesys/Democrats. If it isn’t one of them, the race/religion/party/gender will be in the headlines.
    The classic is the news article about a footrace in which the Soviet Ambassador came second, whilst the US ambassador came second last. It only becomes obvious to those who become aware there were only two runners in the race.

  44. Colonel Crispin Berka

    If you believe clumsy burglars, stressed-out convicted pyramid schemers, and at-fault drivers in motor vehicle accidents are all entitled to subsequent medical care regardless of their culpability in their own health matters, you would have to believe that cyclists are entitled to medical care even if they weren’t taking every possible precaution.
    That is because their helmetedness is not logically the cause of them receiving an injury. Not wearing a helmet is a non-event, ie the description of an event which did not occur. An event which did not occur cannot be the cause of anything that did occur, that’s just physics.
    The argument that they may be coerced into wearing their helmet because we all pay for Medicare does not logically follow. The lack of helmet did not cause the injury, and you don’t object to tax-funded medical care for people who deserve public support even less than wobbly cyclists.

    Obviously cyclists should wear helmets, that’s just sensible precaution. The issue is whether there is any argument for coercion in such matters which is both morally defensible and compatible with physics.

  45. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Coercion, which I take to include the threat of the possible maximum legal punishment for being convicted, is useful for reducing the frequency of people causing bad outcomes through wrongful action. But that is coercion against actually-caused bad outcomes, not coercion against “not following the rules”. Conflating those two is what leads to coercion being used to make people follow ridiculous rules, even when no bad event has actually happened. It is to say that risks are to be addressed by everybody in a particular way and that anything else (note “else”, not “less”) is “reckless endangerment” or “criminal negligence”. But this is circular reasoning. You can’t use the existence of a law to justify a law, or enforcement of the same. There has to be harm or else you’re making rules for control-freak purposes and not “public safety”.

    Or to take it to its illogical conclusion, the World Trade Centre attack is why everybody must be coerced to wear seat belts. Hey, if the terrorists had kept their seat belts on, the twin towers would still be standing. Checkmate, libertarians!

    Making it even more absurd is the strict liability for motorists that already exists in some places and has been argued for by cyclist associations in Qld and NSW. Assuming the motorist must be at fault unless they can prove otherwise has been another example of Marxist mentality, stripping the powerful oppressor class of their rights in favour of the poor powerless victim class. But of course by conflating “following the rules” and “refrain from causing actual harm” those places can fine people for not following a rule, and both the actual circumstance and the text of the rule are totally devoid of harm.

    TL;DR: Coercive Man Bad.

  46. Evil Elvis:

    Do what you want, don’t affect other people, don’t affect other people’s property, don’t affect public property, pay for your own mistakes.

    People in Australia pay insurance via their Medibank payments. Just because its called a levy doesn’t make it not insurance.

  47. duncanm

    Those operation PEDRO exercises (targeting jaywalking and cycling offences) are all about control. They don’t raise a significant amount of revenue, nor do they contribute to public safety.

  48. I would just add that the first group is slowly becoming extinct, in no small part because the helmet, bike bells and similar retarded laws.

    My wife and I used to ride just for the fun of it, but when the helmet laws came in we got rid of the bikes. Not only were these things uncomfortable, they just sweated insanely on hot days. We used to ride on paths that were completely isolated from any traffic, at a pace where joggers would pass us, yet had to wear a helmet regardless.

    On those same paths, which were a shared bike path, I’d be walking our dogs and often be abused by MAMILs, as they came up silently behind me, for slowing them down. Who other than deranged idiots ride at full pace on pathways that are shared by walkers? I’ve come to hate MAMILs and, as I’ve said before, 95% of MAMILs give the other 5% a bad name.

  49. rickw

    We lost much then and I can’t see a way to get back what we had.

    Never going to happen.

    I’m not convinced that this is never going to happen, but it sure isn’t if we do nothing.

    I’m seriously thinking that we should start an A2A movement:

    1). The stranglehold of MSM is increasingly been broken, so the real story is starting to get out.
    2). Australia has a historical basis for A2A, Eureka Stockade was hijacked by the union movement, we can take it back. Australia is one of the few countries in the world where government used artillery on civilians ffs.
    3). We have a real life example of why A2A is a necessity evolving on our doorstep, HK, and they get it, HK residents are calling for their own 2A.
    4). A lot of Australian’s both new and old realise that there is something horribly wrong with the joint, maybe this is a clear and defining issue to rally people around. You are either free or a slave, increasingly Australian’s are slaves.

    I was seriously thinking about jumping on a flight to VA and am kicking myself that I didn’t. Even if only to stand in the protest with a sign saying “Ask me about Australia’s failed gun laws”, a small counter to MSM and demonrats “but in Australia”.

    If anyone is interested in talking about this project over a beer, contact me via Sinc.

  50. Bruce

    alans:

    If you read actual documents, in the US, the PEOPLE are the “Militia”. ALL of them who are fit and able to respond to a call-out. Start with Benjamin Franklin; scientist, statesman and the person who founded the Pennsylvania Militia..

    “Military-style’. There’s that certifiably psychotic response to appearance, as programmed by the usual suspects. If I bolt a “Spirit of Ecstasy ” onto an Austin Princess, does that make it a Rolls-Royce?

    Functional, semi-auto rifles with serious capacity have been around since the 1880s.. They just got many engineering improvements over the decades.

    As for the old canard about “easy convertibility” to “full-auto” you clearly know little about the subject. As someone who spent most of thirty years using and servicing “semi” and “fully-automatic” toys, I can state outright that most of what people THINK they know about them is UTTER CRAP, fed to them in bulk by media and government types. As Mark Twain put it: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure, that just ain’t so”.

    Having to swap out parts and perform critical machining to major and minor components and make new components is NOT “easy” convertibility. Furthermore, full-auto does NOT “work” like it does in the movies.

    However, very few people seem to know the truth and even fewer actually understand it. However utter ignorance is worn as a badge of honour these days.

  51. 1735099

    The MSM will be toiling forlornly, straining their tiny brains trying to discover why there had not been a massacre.

    Massacres?
    The yanks have been there, done that, and continue to do so.

  52. John Dee

    Like most blog comments there is a mix of people making ridiculous statements from a position of zero experience.
    Believe it or not I have actually ridden a bike in Copenhagen.
    Everybody in Copenhagen has a bike – from the very young to the very very old.
    But they ride a bike for entirely different reasons – to shop for a loaf of bread , to go for a drink , to visit friends, to park the bike and continue on the bus.
    Interestingly, in my experience, bikes were rarely chained to anything when left unattended.
    I guess if everybody owns a bike there is no incentive to steal one…unless you are looking for free board and lodging and a police record.
    But it is an entirely a different culture here and now in Australia , and to compare the two situations is simply ignorance, dishonesty or agenda-driven.
    The most glaring of differences is safety.
    The possibility of being involved in a car/truck/bus/semi-trailer vs bike incident in or around Copenhagen is statistically near zero. Australia is the complete opposite.
    Don’t follow the usual moron makings claims about bikes/road rules/arrogance/no license etc etc.
    The vast percentage of the biking community in Australia are law-abiding and considerate so the above claim is specious at best.
    We can readily agree though on the Lycra Mafia groups that are in cities everywhere
    but overall they are a very small percentage of the biking community so moving on…..
    I ride a bike for exercise only…alone
    It is an extremely efficient way to get fit and stay fit.
    Even on very hot days the wind generated by your motion keeps you reasonably comfortable..
    I hate lycra.
    But the reality is if ride more than a few kms – e.g. to the shops for anything you will get a sore butt.
    If you ride on a wide comfy seat for more than a few kms you will get a friction rash on the inner thigh eventually – and a sore butt.
    If you ride on a narrow racing – type seat you will avoid the friction rash but the pressure is on a smaller area now so you get a sore butt.
    You need padding – so you relent and buy lycra which you initially hide under a pair of shorts.
    You can actually buy padded shorts and avoid the lycra altogether but c’mon….
    Eventually you ask yourself : am I more concerned with my own personal comfort or the braying of an ignorant non-bike riding public?
    Easy answer.
    Helmets: Do NOT get me started on helmets.
    Bells: Bells are dangerous.
    I was once riding at a moderate pace on a bikeway in Brisbane.
    Ahead was a woman guiding a pram keeping as close to the left edge as possible.
    I slowed to near walking pace, sounded the bell and to my astonishment the woman immediately turned 90 degrees right.
    Why?
    The woman and baby – got a fright but zero contact.
    I did a dead stop – over the bars – it hurt.
    She said “Sorry”
    Oh…good…perhaps we could do this again sometime.

  53. duncanm

    John,

    I’m in a similar situation — ride almost daily to get to and from work. I’m numerically a MAMIL, but only very occasionally ride for recreation.

    I don’t obey all laws — I ride on a footpath where it would be suicide for me to ride on the road (think uphill, moderate traffic @ 70km/h, windy multi-lane road in peak hour deadly).

    Lycra is a very comfortable way to dress on a bike – nothing more. Do people get feisty about some fat bloke wearing their favourite rugby jersey in the street ?

    I’d love it if my kids and I could tootle around the neighbourhood to get places on our bikes without worrying about being taken out by some local numpty in a car. I, too, have travelled to the Netherlands, and getting around your local town is a doddle on a bike compared to Oz.

  54. rickw

    Since Howard took the guns away here, government has gone bezerk taking away our freedoms and becoming totalitarian.
    America is a super power because much or it’s population understand government is there to be controlled by the people and not the other way around.
    Australia is now a shit hole.
    Maybe that has something to do with tha attitude of people like you who never seem to see the little dick syndrome in public servants wandering around here armed to the teeth.
    You’ll be so hip and groovy the totalitarians in government love you.

    The question I put to debaters is whether or not Government has been treating The People with more or less respect since 1996. Most agree that we’re now treated with complete contempt.

  55. rickw

    While I appreciate the Americans’ love of their constitution, particularly TRTBA, I am somewhat bemused with the photos showing wannabe “soldiers” showing off their weapon of choice. These weapons, ranging from semi auto [ easily converted to full auto ] military assault rifles to 50 cal barratt rifles. Apart from the small dick syndrome, what other use are these weapons for? I know rifles don’t kill people, but extending the right to some of those depicted, you wonder if the US is on some self imposed suicide path. single shot, bolt action is all that is required for hunting or pleasure [ rifle range ] shooting. Perhaps they yanks could amend their RTBA by legislating that these assault type rifles can only be carried by those enlisted in a regulated militia, that ensures practical weapons handling & safety. my 2 bobs worth

    The first machinegun was tested 7 years before the BOR was written. What you see is exactly what the founding fathers envisioned and hoped for. Many pictured are also ex military.

    Single shot rifles are all that is needed? Someone who as never come across a large number of pigs or rabbits at the same time.

    Somewhat less than 2 bobs.

  56. Neil

    What you see is exactly what the founding fathers envisioned and hoped for.

    I would suspect the newly formed USA did not have the money to start a standing army to defend the country so it was cheaper for the country to get the people to arm themselves. Hence the need for a well regulated militia. I think this was the history in England and same here. Australia was protected by the militia until we got around to get a standing army sometime after WW2

  57. DD

    rickw, 2A, why stop there? Pirate Pete is hawking an Australian Republic. Hijack his mob and put up the US constitution; lock stock and barrel. Include all the amendments. Or, WA has always threatened to secede, perhaps the 51st state, the down under one, might appeal. Start the balls rolling.

  58. rickw

    I would suspect the newly formed USA did not have the money to start a standing army to defend the country so it was cheaper for the country to get the people to arm themselves. Hence the need for a well regulated militia. I think this was the history in England and same here. Australia was protected by the militia until we got around to get a standing army sometime after WW2

    True, except 2A was also established for the expressed purpose of overthrowing government gone bad. Militia as an early substitute for a regular army is an anti 2A diversion.

  59. Tel

    That Sydney hipster is loving the attention, you can tell just looking at him. If she pulled out a horsewhip and flogged him till he bled, he would love it even more.

    I know Sydney too well … *sigh* it’s time I found somewhere better to live … but let’s face it Melbourne is much worse, Queensland is ahhh Queensland, and I’m too old and comfortable to relocate to Thailand.

    I should point out that I’ve lived in Sydney for a long time and never been booked for riding without a helmet … possibly because I don’t actually ride at all … but I presume the laws were intended to discourage people from staying fit, so that much is working.

  60. John Dee
    #3299221, posted on January 22, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    I knew that some treadly loving reader would chime in and try and refute everything said, but that’s because you are one of those MAMILs that considers they never do anything wrong.

    Yes, a large majority in Copenhagen do go everywhere on their bikes, but in Australia, a 500m bike ride to a local shop is illegal without a helmet; even if you don’t have to ride on roads other than to walk your treadly across a road. The likelihood of being involved in a car/truck/bus/semi-trailer accident on one of those walking/bicycle tracks is statistically zero. Yet we still have to wear a helmet.

    And when it comes to the average person riding a treadly, I’m not talking about head down and arse up, I’m talking about riding a bike like in the Copenhagen picture. That means at a leisurely pace where 30-40kmh wind is not cooling your scone. I’m talking about riding a bike where you can look about and enjoy the scenery, not just stare at you heart beat monitor or whatever the MAMIL is looking at with their head facing the passing bitumen.

    As for law abiding. Pull the other one. MAMILs come in their droves in summer to our area to test themselves out on our narrow, winding and steep roads and they don’t give a rats arse about how they ride and how they impede traffic. They expect everyone else to give way to them, even if it means not being able to pass them on a steep hill on a narrow impassable stretch of road while they are doing 5kmh three abreast.

    This is what gets me, MAMILs refuse to see what they do on public roads. It’s as if something gets disconnected in their brains and they think they are in another universe where the sun shines out of their arse. And the MAMILs always seem to have an anecdote where they have been wronged by some ignorant pedestrian or car driver.

    As Isaac Butterfield is wont to say, ‘Fuck Cyclists’.

  61. Squirrel

    “The ABC is perplexed by liberty”

    They can’t understand why the US hasn’t adopted our gun laws – for much the same reason that they persist with the delusion that the US (and others) will follow our lead on climate change if we take “real action”…….

  62. Bruce in WA

    “Well regulated” in the sense of 2A at that time meant, “running smoothly; organised; working well”. It had SFA to do with “regulations”.

  63. alans
    #3299050, posted on January 22, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    @ Frank; Frank you miss the point, the right to firearms must be a 2 way responsibility. A responsibility to society and responsibility in the safe handling & storage of such weapons. You obviously haven’t seen too many of those utube videos where “enthusiasts” go out a loose off thousands of rounds, ranging from 5.56 mm right up to 20mm / 40 mm and even cannon. I knew I should have qualified my statement re single shot weapons and exempted professional hunters, but I do stand by what I say in that, if you can’t knock down your target with your first shot, you probably shouldn’t be out there. As for the rest of your gratuitious “advice” Go and get well & truly fucked

    You are an “elitist” turd who hates freedom and has a problem with people having fun if no one gets hurt, because it annoys your fuck brained, pusillanimous sensitivities.

    Read the stats you imbecile. The average shots to take down a bad guy in the US is 3.6.

    “Let’s give cops bolt action rifles and revolvers”

    Law abiding civilians should be able to just as armed as the cops. Remember Peel’s Principle: “the people are the police and the police are the people”.

    YOU can get fucked to the moon and back, you freedom hating limp dick weirdo.

  64. struth

    The vast percentage of the biking community in Australia are law-abiding and considerate so the above claim is specious at best.

    So if I go downstairs and get on me treadly, I’m part of a community………………..wow, cool.

    So many communities in OZ……………….fantastic.

    We should rename Australia, The United communities of Unity and our Anthem could be Kumbaya.

  65. Tim Neilson

    The vast percentage of the biking community in Australia are law-abiding and considerate so the above claim is specious at best.

    The percentage of “law-abiding and considerate” cyclists outside inner Melbourne must be phenomenally high.

  66. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Testing.

    Chopped liver.

    Testing.

  67. C.L.

    No, you’re not, Colonel.
    Some comments are so excellent, readers just marvel and move on.

  68. I’ll repeat this from my blog post, ‘Australian Researchers Claim the Term Cyclist Is ‘Dehumanizing’ to Cyclists‘:

    Australian Researchers have produced a study that has led them to believe the word “cyclists” should be banned, because it “dehumanizes” people who ride bikes.

    Researchers at Queensland University of Technology and Monash University claim to have found a link between the word “cyclists” and a tendency for motorists to “dehumanize” bikers, according to the Daily Mail.

    Queensland University Professor Narelle Haworth claimed the study found 55 percent of non-cyclists surveyed in Victoria, NSW, and Queensland felt that cyclists were “not completely human.”

    “If we used the term people on bikes, instead of cyclists, we’re giving a term that is more human-like and less like a species,” Haworth told Daily Mail.

    The professor insisted that eliminating the word would take some of the sting out of the negativity between bike riders and motorists. Australian Researchers have produced a study that has led them to believe the word “cyclists” should be banned, because it “dehumanizes” people who ride bikes.

    Researchers at Queensland University of Technology and Monash University claim to have found a link between the word “cyclists” and a tendency for motorists to “dehumanize” bikers, according to the Daily Mail.

    Queensland University Professor Narelle Haworth claimed the study found 55 percent of non-cyclists surveyed in Victoria, NSW, and Queensland felt that cyclists were “not completely human.”

    “If we used the term people on bikes, instead of cyclists, we’re giving a term that is more human-like and less like a species,” Haworth told Daily Mail.

    The professor insisted that eliminating the word would take some of the sting out of the negativity between bike riders and motorists.

    The delicate little things.

  69. alans

    @Frank; Frank answer the question if you can, without having to resort to crude & uneducated comments. what hunter needs a full auto assault rifle or 50 cal weapon to go hunting? what type of person, apart from those historic re-enactment people, need to dress up as wannabe military? even down to flak jackets. if you can’t or want try to understand the thrust of my original query why even come into the debate? Your last note re 3.6 shots to bring down a bad guy, that’s more a reflection of poor weapon choice or control at the time. my input into this topic is not about limiting an individual’s right to aquire & use a firearm, but to ensure that such individuals don’t treat said weapon as a toy for “fun’ times. Rickw, you really are misguided if you think that using a .308 semi auto is suitable for rabbit hunting. You must be one of those fables billionaires we keep reading about.

  70. Boambee John

    Researchers at Queensland University of Technology and Monash University claim to have found a link between the word “cyclists” and a tendency for motorists to “dehumanize” bikers, according to the Daily Mail.

    Let’s amend that slightly.

    Researchers on Australian roads claim to have found a link between the word “motorists” and a tendency for academics to “dehumanize” drivers, according to the me.

    That’s much better, and there are endless other useful amendments that could be made!

  71. Docket62

    @alans
    Ive read your arguments with some amusement. You’ve never clearly stood in harms way.

    Ive served in Vic Police in the 80’s/90’s and was confronted with life threatening violence. I hold Pistol/long arm licences and use ranges extensively and am far better trained today that I ever was when it mattered, and am very well armed. The reason it takes 3.6 shots is Adrenalin, not poor ability. If you have ever been in a situation where your heart rate is 200, you’re in fear of actually dying and you’re holding a semi auto Pistol – you’ll squeeze off as many shots as necessary ‘until the threat stops’.

    In practice, similar stresses are achieved through timers and physical demands (IPSC) although nothing takes the place of sheer terror. Sadly our police still are very poorly trained.

    I appreciate your POV from someone who doesn’t understand guns, or the need for Semi auto’s or high calibre long arm. I use precision rifles (can’t call them sniper rifles) that are accurate at almost 2KM – but few ranges permit that. I dont hunt animals today (Did when I was young) but having been confronted by seriously pissed off wild pigs, a single shot will guarantee 172 stitches or gangrene in the leg the damn thing tears into. Even a 308 point blank wont stop a charging boar unless its a clean head/heart shot. (See points above re Adrenalin and being frightened shitless) 50 Cal is used by military and para Mil, not because of the cartridge size, but projectile velocity – maintaining supersonic velocity at 2KM is fairly critical to long range shooting. projectiles dropping to subsonic means lots of maths… its a science.

    The people who own serious firearms in Australia are licenced, monitored and some of the most respected people you’d ever meet. They are incredibly experienced in all walks of life and shoot for the sheer fun of it. A very large majority in the US are ex military/police/services and shoot for camaraderie and fun.

    Try meeting some and gaining some perspective.

  72. rickw

    Rickw, you really are misguided if you think that using a .308 semi auto is suitable for rabbit hunting. You must be one of those fables billionaires we keep reading about.

    No, a semi-auto .22 is appropriate for rabbits, as is a pump action or semi-auto shotgun, now all effectively banned in the most shit country on earth.

    A semi-auto .308 is just right for pigs and deer, now also effectively banned in the most shit country on earth.

    None of this is about hunting anyway. It’s about Citizens having weapon parity with The State so the state doesn’t think they can fuck them at will. Exactly what is happening in HK and exactly why the Citizens of HK are now calling for their own 2A.

    Victoria is the state where Government used artillery on Citizens (Eureka Stockade, 36 miners dead and only 3 police and soldiers dead.). Does anyone think Daniel Andrews is any less of a douche than the Governor of the day? In the meantime vicpol, the world’s most consistently corrupt police force has cobbled together over the last three years over 1,000 assault rifles, what exactly are they preparing for?

    Australia desperately needs 2A, if we don’t get it then we will continue to get screwed by the political class because we pose no real threat to them and their machinations.

  73. rickw

    rickw, 2A, why stop there? Pirate Pete is hawking an Australian Republic. Hijack his mob and put up the US constitution; lock stock and barrel. Include all the amendments. Or, WA has always threatened to secede, perhaps the 51st state, the down under one, might appeal. Start the balls rolling.

    I agree, we should actually just surrender to the USA and be done with it!

  74. rickw

    Ive served in Vic Police in the 80’s/90’s and was confronted with life threatening violence. I hold Pistol/long arm licences and use ranges extensively and am far better trained today that I ever was when it mattered, and am very well armed.

    The least trained and competent people roam our streets armed to the teeth. When vicpol do a firearm inspection I need to show them how to check every firearm for clear. I’m also guaranteed to get plenty of muzzle views while they hunt for the serial number.

  75. alans
    #3299617, posted on January 23, 2020 at 8:11 am

    @Frank; Frank answer the question if you can, without having to resort to crude & uneducated comments.

    I know what I’m talking about, you don’t. You started the invidiousness, you can’t seem to take it.

    what hunter needs a full auto assault rifle or 50 cal weapon to go hunting?

    Plenty. We have a massive feral pig problem as well as feral animals diverse enough to make the left soil themselves with glee. Feral donkeys, feral pygmy hippos, feral camels and feral buffalo.

    what type of person, apart from those historic re-enactment people, need to dress up as wannabe military

    Try hunting for deer in dayglo and see how successful you are. You know literally nothing about this topic. Google what a ghillie suit is.

    Your last note re 3.6 shots to bring down a bad guy, that’s more a reflection of poor weapon choice or control at the time.

    You’re an imbecile. Not everyone can be Jerry Miculek and handguns are not that accurate. Most of the shooting was done by…law enforcement. Who rigorously test their firearms. “Poor control and choice”.

    You utter idiot.

    my input into this topic is not about limiting an individual’s right to aquire & use a firearm, but to ensure that such individuals don’t treat said weapon as a toy for “fun’ times.

    As long as they are responsible gun owners, what intangible benefit they get such as joy or happiness is none of our concern.

  76. …handguns are not that accurate…

    That’s the truth. Those Hollywood scenes where the hero pops off everyone without effort is pure fantasy. I’ve used revolvers and automatic pistols and they are diabolical to use accurately. In most situations I could probably throw the gun more accurately at a target (pistol targets are never very far away).

    Those who demonstrate great accuracy with hand guns practice an awful lot and are mostly civilians with the time and inclination. Police and even military rarely get the practice time necessary to become anywhere near as capable.

  77. rickw

    Those who demonstrate great accuracy with hand guns practice an awful lot and are mostly civilians with the time and inclination. Police and even military rarely get the practice time necessary to become anywhere near as capable.

    The guy who shot the killer in the Texas Church did an epic job, headshot at 30ft under all that pressure. 99% of vicpol would be incapable of doing the same and yet the sheep are 100% ok with only them being armed.

  78. alans

    @ Frank & associates: it never ceases to amaze me the reaction you get when you scratch the scab of an infected wound; all sorts of shit bubbles to the top. Not one of you has addressed the issue of my original post; ie the ownership of assault rifles and other high velocity weapons. some of you rabbit on about conspiracy theories and the power of the state, others make reference to my “lack of experience” with rifles etc, others make even wilder assumptions that the people depicted in the photos were ex military / law enforcement. At the end of the day all I can say is, there are too many people out there who have access to weapons that they are not capable of handling both physically & mentally. that to me is the scary thing. what is even more scary is the unhinged reaction of some of the keyboard warriors here on this blog and to think that they may have access to weapons.

  79. Zatara

    “a full auto assault rifle”

    That phrase you flippantly use because it sounds scary does not mean what you think it does.
    For one thing, what it means is a weapon which begins firing when the trigger is pulled and does not stop firing until the trigger is released. A ‘machine gun’ to the lesser informed.

    Such fully automatic weapons do not legally exist in US civilian hands without a Class 3 license, which requires an intensive background investigation and not a small cost to obtain. Further, the weapon has to have been made prior to 1985 to qualify. To say the process isn’t cheap and that the licenses and weapons are few and far between is an understatement. The ongoing regulations and annual reporting requirements of ownership of such weapons further limits how many are extant.

    what hunter needs a full auto assault rifle or 50 cal weapon to go hunting?

    You still don’t get it. Go back and read that Constitution you claim to ‘appreciate’. Count how many time hunters, recreational shooters, or home defense are mentioned. Hint: They aren’t.

    That’s because the Constitution affirms the right of the citizen to bear arms in their defense from tyrannical government. The ability to pot squirrels, punch holes in pieces of paper from long distances, or protect your family from a home intruder are ancillary benefits.

    As to what the citizens decide to arm themselves with and how they are attired when they exercise that right… you fight as you train.

  80. Tim Neilson

    Not one of you has addressed the issue of my original post;

    Actually they have.

    In great detail.

    Often from personal experience.

    The mere fact that you don’t like the replies doesn’t invalidate them.

    If this latest reply is all you’ve got, you’ve been trounced.

  81. rickw

    At the end of the day all I can say is, there are too many people out there who have access to weapons that they are not capable of handling both physically & mentally. that to me is the scary thing. what is even more scary is the unhinged reaction of some of the keyboard warriors here on this blog and to think that they may have access to weapons.

    These people are called criminals, they are already armed to teeth. Latest example was the 200 Glocks illegally imported into Sydney by a muslim conspiracy that spanned Customs, Australia Post etc. 1 recovered so far. AFP / Customs / Border Force completely missed it, alarm was raised by Glock.

    Frankly it gives me the shits that idiots like you ignore this basic reality whilst wanting infringe the Freedom and Liberty of those who have done no wrong, all because it makes you feel safer in your little bubble that is detached from reality.

  82. rickw

    At the end of the day all I can say is, there are too many people out there who have access to weapons that they are not capable of handling both physically & mentally. that to me is the scary thing. what is even more scary is the unhinged reaction of some of the keyboard warriors here on this blog and to think that they may have access to weapons.

    These people are called criminals, they are already armed to teeth. Latest example was the 200 Glocks illegally imported into Sydney by a *lim conspiracy that spanned Customs, Australia Post etc. 1 recovered so far. AFP / Customs / Border Force completely missed it, alarm was raised by Glock.

    Frankly it gives me the shits that idiots like you ignore this basic reality whilst wanting infringe the Freedom and Liberty of those who have done no wrong, all because it makes you feel safer in your little bubble that is detached from reality.

  83. Neil

    Frankly it gives me the shits that idiots like you ignore this basic reality whilst wanting infringe the Freedom and Liberty of those who have done no wrong

    I am a Conservative voter who agrees with what the guy said. If you don’t think Iran should have nuclear weapons you believe in gun control. The question is where do you draw the line? I think that was his point. If gun owners just wanted to own rifles and hand guns they would get a little extra support

    I am also for animal control. If my neighbour feels the need to have a lion or tiger to protect himself, well forget about it. Get a dog. And as for dogs I would ban pit bulls, rottweilers etc since they are fighting dogs. I still have the bite marks on my ankle from my next door neighbours pit bull who bit me as I was walking past. And when you read about the death of somebody from a dog attack it is usually one of those breeds

    There are a small percentage of crazy people and that means a reduction of liberty for the majority.

  84. rickw

    The question is where do you draw the line?

    Shall not be infringed would be a good start.

    If gun owners just wanted to own rifles and hand guns they would get a little extra support.

    Like the other writer, I suspect you only had an opinion on this issue after MSM and the government told you what it should be.

  85. Neil

    Same goes for free speech. Can you yell FIRE in a theatre.

    I think there would be anarchy if the were no lines and boundaries. And there is a small percentage of crazy people meaning the majority have to suffer.

  86. Tim Neilson

    Can you yell FIRE in a theatre.

    Yes, if you think there is one.

    And governments have no business to deprive people of the liberty to say what they think.

  87. stackja

    After WW2 I believe there were many surplus guns. Mental health patients were properly cared for.
    Port Arthur was a failure by authorities. Were any people held to account? Gun recall was simplistic. No thought given. Leftists/MSM, of course happy.

  88. Docket62

    At the end of the day all I can say is, there are too many people out there who have access to weapons that they are not capable of handling both physically & mentally.

    Complete nonsense, hyperbole and ill informed opinion. On what basis do you make that claim?

    Of the last umpteen firearm fatalities in Australia, none have been committed by Licensed, registered firearm owners. They are committed by criminals who illegally obtain firearms (refer the Glock story above – or perhaps the ‘thefts’ from military bases aka:black market source)

    The registered, law abiding firearm community not only CAN handle the weapons systems they purchase, own and use regularly, but they are checked every year by the clubs, and on licence renewal by LRD in EVERY state. Especially when you own handguns. It is rigorous, requires authenticated reasons and is exceptionally well controlled. The members are, by and large, far better adjusted than those you entrust with firearms bye of…. a job

    As opposed to the lawless MF who purchase a Glock Saturday night special, then off some fruiterer on his way to work on a major arterial road in Melbourne.

  89. Professor Fred Lenin

    A story an old copper told me about police and firearms . He was inspector in a country division ,one of his duties was to test all police annually for firearm ability ,the cops had to fire 6 rounds from the revolvers that were standard issue . In one country station he tested 5 men ,4 were ok the fifth had to present and fire 6 rounds at a target , counting as he fired , 1,2,3,4,5 then put his weapon down by his ide , bang! nuumber six just missed hismfoot as it went into the ground ,my old mate calmly said “you will have to learn to count to six constable , I suggest you use both hands to count “

  90. Neil

    After WW2 I believe there were many surplus guns. Mental health patients were properly cared for.

    OK but is that the topic? Some people are bringing up where do you draw the line about what sort of weapons a citizen should be allowed to own. Countries to. Should Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons?

    Port Arthur was a failure by authorities.

    A failure that would have not have been as bad if the guy only had rifles and hand guns

  91. Docket62

    Port Arthur was a failure by authorities.

    Port Arthur was inevitable. The weapons were obtained unlawfully and he intended to die. The failure by the authorities was not to provide him his final wish.

    Dead men dont write memoirs or sue the state.

  92. Neil

    Port Arthur was inevitable. The weapons were obtained unlawfully

    Is that true? I thought they were lawfully obtained. A quick look at Wikipedia does confirm that

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)#Perpetrator

    In March 1996, Bryant had his AR-10 repaired at a gun shop and made inquiries about AR-15 rifles in other gun shops. At the time of purchase, non-handguns were not required to be registered in Tasmania

  93. Tel

    Remember Peel’s Principle: “the people are the police and the police are the people”.

    Did Peel ever actually believe that? I thought it was one of those “get it in the door” statements.

    I agree with the general concept that absolutely no magic privileges should be offered to “second responders” as compared with regular citizens.

  94. Zatara

    Is that true? I thought they were lawfully obtained. A quick look at Wikipedia does confirm that

    In March 1996, Bryant had his AR-10 repaired at a gun shop and made inquiries about AR-15 rifles in other gun shops. At the time of purchase, non-handguns were not required to be registered in Tasmania

    No, it doesn’t. Neither that quote nor the wiki it came from says anything about where, when, or how the weapon he used was obtained.

    A failure that would have not have been as bad if the guy only had rifles and hand guns

    The AR-10 IS a rifle. The giveaway is in the name.

  95. Is that true? I thought they were lawfully obtained. A quick look at Wikipedia does confirm that

    No it doesn’t. Confirmation bias by omission. Ockham wept.

  96. If you don’t think Iran should have nuclear weapons you believe in gun control.

    Errant nonsense.

  97. Bruce in WA

    A failure that would have not have been as bad if the guy only had rifles and hand guns

    Ever stood in the cafe at port Arthur? I have. It’s tiny. The people inside were sitting ducks — even for a handgun. It would have been, literally, point-and-shoot. The noise would have been ear-shattering in that confined space and frozen people to the spot; they wouldn’t have known what it was or where it was coming from. Martin couldn’t miss. I believe it was an AR-15 version he used in the cafe; a semi-auto only rifle (NOT an “assault rifle” by definition) in 5.56 mm or the equivalent of .223 which is not, by any estimate, “high powered”.

  98. BorisG,

    So if Howard wasn’t our greatest PM since 1970s, then tell us please who was better. Please name one that was better.

  99. rickw

    In March 1996, Bryant had his AR-10 repaired at a gun shop and made inquiries about AR-15 rifles in other gun shops. At the time of purchase, non-handguns were not required to be registered in Tasmania

    There is no record of anyone ever selling an AR-15 to Bryant. Whilst registration of rifles was not required, recording of sales was. The Wikipedia entry is written to imply that enquiry = purchase and that there would be no record of a sale because there was no registration. Written specifically to mislead and to cover over the fact that the origin of the AR-15 was never established.

    Note that there was rumour that the S/N of the AR-15 corresponded to one surrendered to vicpol.

  100. rickw

    OK but is that the topic? Some people are bringing up where do you draw the line about what sort of weapons a citizen should be allowed to own. Countries to. Should Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons?

    You are conflating citizens with countries, entirely different issues. In any case, if Iran was a person they would be an idiot with a criminal record and therefore a prohibited person.

    The issue is not what arms, but who. In a country that wasn’t a communist shithole, the right to bear arms should be extended to all unless they prove themselves to be unfit, having a criminal record. My experience is that by the age of 18, all the lunatics I knew had a criminal record with 100% certainty.

  101. rickw

    Ever stood in the cafe at port Arthur? I have. It’s tiny. The people inside were sitting ducks — even for a handgun. It would have been, literally, point-and-shoot.

    I’ve been there, by that stage the building had been demolished, however you could still see the footprint. There was no feat of marksmanship by Bryant, the space was tiny. If he had of thrown in a molatov cocktail or made a bomb the results would have been just as deadly.

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