Flattening The Learning Curve

SO here we are, then, weeks into the internet’s – if not the legacy media’s – first globally impactful pandemic. The strategies being deployed to combat it are certainly opening fault lines in the political philosophies most of us claim to live by in relation to everything else. ‘Climate change,’ bushfire blame, monetary easing, Harry and Meghan, limits on cash withdrawals, George Pell, Donald Trump, Russia, impeachment, climbing Ayers Rock and royal commissions were the stuff of sporting daily brawls – mere subject-matter that made choosing sides easy for everyone. Chinese coronavirus has also unleashed debate – but unlike any other in our lifetimes. On the flashpoints – curve-flattening, shutdowns, civil disobedience and CFRs – people are being as opinionated as ever but they’re not sure they’re right. More strangely, many hope they’re wrong. We can hardly recognise our formerly emphatic selves. The information available is incomplete (when it isn’t outright false) and what we do know at this stage is still subjective. Such vagueries don’t arise in discussions of Joe Biden’s hair-sniffing or the merits of women’s ‘football.’ This crisis is different and we know why.

I even think there is a humbling, self-improving lesson to be learned from it about the limitations of our ken, the fatuousness of live analysis (including our own) and the fragility of ego. Lurking behind it all is something more primordial: the fear of our own mortality which – at least partially – we’ve nobly dressed up as fear for other people’s. Daniel Andrews’ insistence that there is “no social occasion or celebration that’s worth more than a human life” was this week’s most sanctimonious corona-adage. In 2017, Victorian MLCs celebrated the enactment of Mr Andrews’ legalisation of geriatric homicide. He isn’t fit to either define or police life-affirming celebration. Great leader thespianism aside, the citizens I see every day are calm, orderly, sombre-but-unbowed and responsible. They are best placed to govern their homes, their business, their families and their intercourse with one another. They don’t need to be lectured. Riding people is not only unnecessary but counterproductive. It’s time now for our leaders to settle down and let the policies they’ve chosen to enact play out in society. Or – to put it another way – they should just shut up for a brief spell.

One thing I have been surprised to discover is how tenuous principles are in a crisis. Yesterday’s libertarian is today’s Whitlamite interventionist – singing from the same “expert” song sheet that blamed Scott Morrison and coal for the summer’s inferno. That was just weeks ago. Remember the “23 former fire chiefs”? Their word was scientific gospel in December. No, dear experts, young people enjoying sun and fresh air at Bondi were not a threat to the nation. But a Prime Minister and a Premier who waved through tens of thousands of Chinese students (after alleged quarantines in third-world countries) and plague-ship passengers certainly are.

Likewise, I dare say there are left-of-centre True Believers having fraught contingency discussions in kitchens Australia-wide right now – still in their hi-viz shirts and taking a break from their online dole applications – who suddenly realise the state is not their friend. Green lights for celestials and pink slips for Skips. Then there are my fellow Catholics, a number of whom seem to believe the right to life – which is the right not to be killed – means no-one can be “allowed” to die at any cost. This is both childish and theological nonsense. Society and the economy cannot be “shut down.” This isn’t a Ferris wheel. If that’s the putative solution, then there is no current “solution” – except patience, charity, cleanliness and protection of the vulnerable. That is the best we can do. On the evening of D-Day, 6 June 1944, Franklin Roosevelt read to America his famous prayer, Let Our Hearts Be Stout. Hearts had to be stout because this solution meant thousands (as it happens) “will never return.”

Hold your nerve – and your principles

In other words, I’ve come to believe – or, rather, I see no reason to stop believing – that the Prime Minister and his utterly hysterical “National Cabinet” have no authority whatsoever to exterminate the livelihoods of millions of people on the say-so of wealthy bureaucrats who bring new “phases” of hectoring and economic destruction to his desk every morning. They do this not because of new epidemiological intelligence acquired overnight but, rather, because every news cycle must now feature “new measures” to satisfy a media that would love nothing more than to castigate a Liberal prime minister for not Doing Enough. You could say the “National Cabinet” is as much at war with a Hawaiian shirt as it is with a Chinese ‘flu. To make matters – yes, exponentially – worse, being a federation means that six other bunyip-plenipotentiaries are sucked into separate virtue auctions every day as well. The suddenly standardised bureaucratese – “essential business” – goes hand in latex glove with the Victorian Premier’s statement: no livelihood is worth a life, as it were. Australia has a population comparable to that of Greater Los Angeles but is ‘governed’ by nine parliaments. All of their members are on full, six-figured pay right now. No Centrelink queues for them, though few conduct essential business.

The difference between 1 percent and 0.1 is the difference between a clownish police commissioner shooing people off a beach and an American President prepping an economy to get back to work.”

 
Contrary to what “experts” plainly stated or gave people to understand for weeks, the statistical denominator for determining the looming COVID-19 treatment case-load was poppycock. That’s what the latest facts show. World Health Organisation projections of likely critical and fatal cases measured against the overall number of infected were – needless to say – scientific garbage. The difference between 1 percent and 0.1 is the difference between a clownish police commissioner shooing people off a beach and an American President prepping an economy to get back to work. Invented in China and skewered beyond rational recognition in the systematically chaotic Italian medical system, the rush-numbers started the panic in Australia (and elsewhere). Governments cannot walk away from that foundational pretext now, having Zippoed the entire village in the meantime. Nor is anybody omniscient enough right now to assert they should; nor will I.

Some will argue a worst-case action plan was prudent in the statistically fluid circumstances – even that it will eventually be seen as a felix culpa that stood us all in good stead. We’ll see. Governments know very well that a ‘we saved the day’ exegesis is a no-brainer when a catastrophe doesn’t transpire as originally advertised. Kevin Rudd has built an entire legend around himself on the birdbrained basis that he ‘saved’ Australia from the GFC. When paradigm whisperer Paul Kelly’s The Australian wanted a keynote speaker for its strategic leadership forum in November, it chose Paul Keating whose thesis is that China is the future. Mal Meninga’s only political speech was better value for money. Several weeks later, ASIO’s boss said one of the most worrying threats to the nation was neo-Nazis in suburban garages. The bat soup of leadership and ‘expertise’ in this country cannot be redeemed with any condiment save scepticism. The Chinese virus is a very serious threat, it might cause enough critical infections to stretch ICUs to the limit and, yes, people will die. But no, this doesn’t give the financially quarantined officials of the state the right to destroy the country or claim in loco parentis powers over the rest of us. On this principle, the writer is not for turning. Ever.

Augusto Zimmermann at Quadrant: Dear PM, a Word to Ponder: Proportion.

This entry was posted in COVID-19, Western Civilsation. Bookmark the permalink.

136 Responses to Flattening The Learning Curve

  1. feelthebern

    The difference between 1 percent and 0.1 is the difference between a clownish police commissioner shooing people off a beach and an American President prepping an economy to get back to work.”

    Liberty quote.

  2. The Golden Age of Stupid has arrived and the emperor is wearing no clothes …. !

  3. Not Stever from Brisbane either

    Bravo, C.L.

  4. nb

    ‘It’s time now for our leaders to settle down’
    It is possible that Trump might justify the term leader, but in Australia, ‘our employees’ will do.

  5. WolfmanOz

    Superbly written C.L.

  6. This is a lot of flowery language to say what could be summed up in a single sentence: “It is time for others to die to preserve my wealth.”

    The D-Day analogy is illuminating as an example of chickenhawk conservatism. The unprivileged are sent to the front line while the powerful stay safe in this poisonous doctrine, in pestilence as well as in war.

  7. Infidel Tiger

    WTF is Monty talking about?

    Aren’t you cowering at home smothered in microwaved lasagna and Sara Lee ice-cream?

  8. JC

    I think he’s trying to say, Dunkins is closing from tomorrow onward.

  9. Beachcomber

    Paul at 3:37 pm

    The Golden Age of Stupid has arrived and the emperor is wearing no clothes …. !

    Indeed.

  10. Perfidious Albino

    A magnum opus CL, kudos!

  11. Tim Neilson

    Remind me monty, what do you do for a living?

  12. CL is literally saying that the old, sick and weak under his preferred do-nothing coronavirus policy are like the Allies on the beach at Normandy, getting cut down by Hun artillery fire like mangy dogs. Thoughts and prayers, says the lad, thanks for your service to my superannuation income!

  13. egg_

    The difference between 1 percent and 0.1 is the difference between a clownish police commissioner shooing people off a beach and an American President prepping an economy to get back to work.”

    Liberty quote.

    +1

  14. egg_

    This is a lot of flowery language to say what could be summed up in a single sentence: “It is time for others to die to preserve my wealth.”

    The D-Day analogy is illuminating as an example of chickenhawk conservatism. The unprivileged are sent to the front line while the powerful stay safe in this poisonous doctrine, in pestilence as well as in war.

    The resident clown has the self awareness of an amoeba.

  15. egg_

    CL is literally saying that the old, sick and weak under his preferred do-nothing coronavirus policy are like the Allies on the beach at Normandy, getting cut down by Hun artillery fire like mangy dogs. Thoughts and prayers, says the lad, thanks for your service to my superannuation income!

    How many “hospital beds” did the Sydney Olympics cost?
    What price vanity?

  16. Tim Neilson

    CL is literally saying that the old, sick and weak under his preferred do-nothing coronavirus policy

    Where did he say we should be doing nothing?

    It’s not binary.

    There must be some point at which further lockdown measures are immaterial (or perhaps even counterproductive if they thwart herd immunity developing), and therefore not worth the problems they create. (We could prevent road deaths by abolishing vehicular transport – “if it saves one life it’s worth it…”.) There’s nothing inherently wrong with suspecting that the Hunchback of Spring Street et hoc generis have pushed things beyond that point.

  17. It’s not binary.

    But it is, Tim. A full lockdown is the only logical endpoint. The longer we delay a full lockdown, the later we come out of the other end of it.

    Anyone still relying on the completely discredited “herd immunity” strategy is dangerously stupid.

  18. Tim Neilson

    But it is, Tim. A full lockdown is the only logical endpoint. The longer we delay a full lockdown, the later we come out of the other end of it.

    What do you mean by a “full lockdown”? Surely some people have to be near others – how do health workers get fed otherwise? “Full lockdown” is just sloppy label-based jargon.
    And your statement is, in any case, nonsense. The more severe the lockdown the longer before we can be really sure that the contagion has peaked.

    Anyone still relying on the completely discredited “herd immunity” strategy is dangerously stupid.

    Anti-vaxxer alert!!!

    BTW – remind me what you do for a living?

  19. Sinclair Davidson

    Now m0nty, you’ve been threatening to die this whole time. None of us think you’re going to die and with each passing day the probability of this happening falls.

    I’m wondering through why you refer to the herd immunity idea as being discredited? All they are hoping to do is slow down the rate of infection so that early deaths don’t swamp the health system before herd immunity takes hold. The alternative is a vaccine – but that is unlikely to appear for some months. So the policy is that we move slowly to herd immunity rather than move quickly to herd immunity.

  20. Infidel Tiger

    Unless you locking down for 12 months, there is no point.

  21. Infidel Tiger

    So the government has forced all pubs, cafes etc to close, but actual people in quarantine can do as they please and there is no law to stop them doing so?

    WTF is going on?

  22. egg_

    Professor Peter Doherty, epidemiologist, has been saying that measures taken so far had not had an effect on the curve, but applauds them still.
    Doh!
    Maybe individual Aussies have been using some common sense all along?

  23. Imagine a virus as usually benign as the common cold suddenly infected an isolated population. Imagine the common cold suddenly arriving within Australia’s shores 134 years back. It would be as devastating as this until herd immunity clicked in. In a few years time when so many of us are fairly routinely carrying this virus we’ll look back on this time and wonder whether we did the right thing. We did. We stumbled around, disputing policies when almost any were both right and wrong. Except the toilet paper thing. And eggs when I went shopping today. Lucky it’s not the black death this time.

    Lucky it’s not the black death this time.

  24. I’m wondering through why you refer to the herd immunity idea as being discredited? All they are hoping to do is slow down the rate of infection so that early deaths don’t swamp the health system before herd immunity takes hold. The alternative is a vaccine – but that is unlikely to appear for some months. So the policy is that we move slowly to herd immunity rather than move quickly to herd immunity.

    Tell me Sinc, do we have herd immunity to Ebola? SARS? AIDS?

    The fact is that British boffins backed away from the herd immunity nonsense after that study into the parallels with Italy showed that anything other than full lockdown would cause hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths. It is only obstinacy that sees Australia among the last hold outs against stage 4 restrictions.

    Herd immunity is not inevitable. Prevention is better than cure.

  25. egg_

    the policy is that we move slowly to herd immunity rather than move quickly to herd immunity.

    The slow gazelles are protesting?

  26. candy

    A full lockdown is the only logical endpoint.

    I wonder though how long this would take. If you lock down for 6 weeks, and when everything is unlocked – the virus could re-invigorate because perhaps it would be there lurking in the sense there is not much community immunity, and only a few flights in from say China would set it all off again.

    A lockdown like IT says would have to be extended – perhaps 12 months even, to let the immunity take hold.

  27. thefrollickingmole

    Monty thinks the magic money tree will spring back to life once 6-12 months of ringbarking by the government is over.
    It wont.
    More ex-business people will suicide than will die of the virus, provided it doesnt swamp the system.

  28. I wonder though how long this would take. If you lock down for 6 weeks, and when everything is unlocked – the virus could re-invigorate because perhaps it would be there lurking in the sense there is not much community immunity, and only a few flights in from say China would set it all off again.

    A lockdown like IT says would have to be extended – perhaps 12 months even, to let the immunity take hold.

    This is nonsense too, candy. Numbers plucked out of the air by the CMO to scare us into his flawed methodology.

    Wuhan’s lockdown took nine weeks. They had the largest breakout of anyone so far, with NY possibly set to overtake it. Ours isn’t nearly as big. We should be over it in four to six weeks max, if we stick to it.

  29. JC

    Monster
    There is no lock down if it means businesses closing. They aren’t on main streets for the most part. Lock down in Australia appears to be mostly a personal decision because there are virtually no people in stores. STFU and get back in the basement you fat idiot.

  30. candy

    Wuhan’s lockdown took nine weeks.

    It may be Monty that a lockdown in communist China is easier to do because of the iron fist over people’s heads. Doors being nailed up to keep people in. Perhaps – some things happen to people if they don’t comply.
    In Australia there’s things folk won’t accept. For example shutting down all the liquor stores and every takeaway outlet etc. Shut down of all office jobs. It would take a great communicator to convince Australians that that is what we need to do.

  31. Lock down in Australia appears to be mostly a personal decision because there are virtually no people in stores.

    Morrison is trying to have his cake and eat it too. As the corpses pile up, that too shall pass.

    We seemed to be following the UK there for a while, but after Boris woke up and smelled the posies we’re now following the US where the strong states get head of the weak fed response. Worst of both worlds.

  32. It would take a great communicator to convince Australians that that is what we need to do.

    Yeah. And we’ve got a third-rate pentecostal shyster.

  33. JC

    Monster

    Did you read what I said. There didn’t seem to be any people inn the stores. People are doing their own lockdown

    You need to get back in the basement. Now!

  34. Sinclair Davidson

    Tell me Sinc, do we have herd immunity to Ebola? SARS? AIDS?

    We don’t have ebola in Australia, the SARS virus mutated itself and exhausted, AIDS is acquired under very limited circumstances.

    Do you honestly think that we’re all going to stay in lock down indefinitely so you can live? Or until a vaccine appears? We all love you dearly, but that is not going to happen.

    The flatten the curve strategy involves herd immunity. If we can manage the timing of people getting ill then fewer will die. (Huge ‘ifs’ there). The UK strategy was abandoned because of timing issues and a high death rate that could not be sustained in a democratic society. Destroying the economy is also something that can’t be sustained in a democratic society.

    Plan B is that everyone who currently has it is isolated until they recover or die and don’t infect anyone else. That is a plan – and I think the plan you are advocating – but that is not flatten the curve.

  35. People are doing their own lockdown

    Except the people who aren’t. You forget you and I are in Victoria, which Andrews has locked down a lot more than other places. I was talking to a relative in Perth yesterday, the vibe there is a lot less urgent apparently.

  36. Infidel Tiger

    As the corpses pile up, that too shall pass.

    12 in 3 months.

    All old, all with several underlying health complaints.

    2 of those deaths had to be flown here to increase the stats!

    No one is saying Wuhan Flu is harmless, we are saying there is a better way. People in horrible health like yourself should never ever be allowed outside. The vibrant and the vigorous should continue on living.

  37. Infidel Tiger

    I was talking to a relative in Perth yesterday, the vibe there is a lot less urgent apparently.

    Place is a ghost town.

    The whole economy destroyed.

  38. Do you honestly think that we’re all going to stay in lock down indefinitely so you can live? Or until a vaccine appears? We all love you dearly, but that is not going to happen.

    Not indefinitely, but six weeks is doable.

    The flatten the curve strategy involves herd immunity.

    No it doesn’t. It is not predicated on 60% of the population getting infected. It is a strategy to slow down the outbreak so that it can be managed and neutralised through testing, contact tracing and quarantine of the infected. There is no assumption that everyone will get exposed to the virus. The flatter the curve is, the easier it is to bring it back down to zero without mass preventable deaths.

    Plan B is that everyone who currently has it is isolated until they recover or die and don’t infect anyone else. That is a plan – and I think the plan you are advocating – but that is not flatten the curve.

    You are assuming a binary choice between contact tracing and lockdown. This is false. Lockdown helps with the contact tracing approach because it minimises new contacts for a while, to allow the authorities to complete tracing of all existing contacts and contain the spread to zero through isolation. In fact, contact tracing without lockdown is useless because the amount of contacts grows exponentially and then there is no point because the spaghetti graph connects everyone to everyone.

    In summary, our options are:
    a) full lockdown plus contact tracing to identify all infected… and
    b) the weak suck-it-and-see approach that will inevitably revert to (a) after the outbreak gets out of control.

    The economic effects will be bad either way, but they will be minimised by going straight to (a) and not faffing about with (b) for any length of time.

  39. Peter Finch

    For some perspective: Regular Australian flu season has around 18,000 hospitalisations (assume severe/critical) with 1,800 deaths, so for a 6 months flu season this equals around 100 hospitalisations and 10 deaths per day. Worldometer for the period 1 Mar to 24 Mar suggests 11 severe cases (hospitalisations?) and 12 deaths, so an inferred maximum of 23 deaths. At this early stage of CV we are below the ‘regular’ flu stats. To be consistent with past flu numbers we should have 2,500 severe/critical cases and 250 deaths. Early days perhaps but I can’t see why I should be over worried. On this basis in 10 days time we would be looking at 350 deaths to remain consistent with the ‘regular’ flu season. Data from Australian influenza Surveillance Systems 2015. As PF would say “stop it, I can’t take it anymore”

  40. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #3377452, posted on March 26, 2020 at 4:27 pm
    CL is literally saying that the old, sick and weak under his preferred do-nothing coronavirus policy are like the Allies on the beach at Normandy, getting cut down by Hun artillery fire like mangy dogs. Thoughts and prayers, says the lad, thanks for your service to my superannuation income!

    Your reading comprehension has suffered as your personal fear has increased.

    Plenty on this blog are in more precarious health, and at greater risk, personal and financial, than you. Get a grip!

  41. Peter Finch

    Reports on the use of hydroxychloroquine and Z-Pak would indicate these may be critical in ameliorating the effect of CV. Consequently these could literally stop a significant majority acquiring CV and flatten the curve. Question is how often would you need to take them if these drugs solve an incidence of CV but do not provide immunity.

  42. Sinclair Davidson

    … six weeks is doable.

    Time will resolve uncertainty – but I suspect not.

  43. Boambee John

    full lockdown

    Everyone locked down. No power, no water, no sewerage, no food supplies, no medical services?

    Or are you happy that people who get their hands dirty should keep risking death while you sit comfortably in your home, the lights, fridge and stove working, water coming out of the taps, groceries delivered to your door, doctors, nurses and ambos on duty?

  44. Nato

    From 5,000 poor souls departing the mortal realm while exhibiting extreme coronavirus symptons, a panic grew that has led to to suspension of many non-essential medical procedures.
    I have read that in some parts of the world, this is expected to include abortions.
    We are living in historic times! A global pandemic that saves more lives than it takes.
    (I want to think that’s an original line, but I probably just can’t remember where and when I overheard it. Let me know so i can credit the source)

  45. Some History

    Peter Finch
    #3377681, posted on March 26, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    +1

  46. Some History

    JC
    #3377607, posted on March 26, 2020 at 5:44 pm
    Monster
    Did you read what I said. There didn’t seem to be any people inn the stores. People are doing their own lockdown

    Hairdressers, for example, don’t want to do their own lockdown. If they do so they are ineligible for benefits? They are pleading to be shut down by the government.

  47. dover_beach

    Something fishy about the Oxford study’s 50% already immune scenario. We’ve had over 100,000 tests here in Australia, and we are as likely to have had as undetected cases enter Australia by mid-January as the UK. Why haven’t they been picked up by these tests? Even if you suppose that most of these cases closed with full recovery, I very much doubt 25M susceptible patients would yield a mere 3K active cases from +100K tests.

  48. Infidel Tiger

    Time will resolve uncertainty – but I suspect not.

    There isn’t a politician on earth except for Trump who wants this over.

    This is everything they have dreamed of at once.

    Merry WuhanMas!

    Small example – every day WA’s COVID-19 stats are announced by the health minister at a press conference. Why in God’s name do we have to wait for this pompous ass to preen himself in front of camera?

  49. Infidel Tiger

    Michael Brendan Dougherty
    @michaelbd
    ·
    2h
    Replying to
    @wesyang

    The speed at which we went from “travel restriction (prevention) is bad, racist” to “virtual mass home imprisonment via lockdown (mitigation) is good, caring” will permanently alter trust in our leadership class.

  50. notafan

    There is no ‘neutralising’ Monty. There is managing hospital admissions while hoping the virus mutates and weakens.

    You can personally go into twelve months of lockdown, no one standing in your way.

  51. Peter Finch

    If you love Queen & Bohemian Rhapsody you will love this link with lyrics from Coronavirus

  52. Peter Finch

    Hmm link did not show so will try again here otherwise go to Youtube and enter Coronavirus rhapsody

  53. Some History

    Here’s the link, Peter

  54. notafan

    Thank you CL.

    It’s a brilliant piece.

    I don’t know the solution. I now think everyone should have been able to make their own decisions.

    I think those that know their own vunerablilities would have stayed at home anyhow and our massive oversupply of cafes and restaurants would be stuffed either way.

    Locally the cafes were near deserted before Dan said no; between retirees staying away and commuters working from home. ( I certainly had my favourite mostly to myself)

    And working from home seems to working remarkably well for office types.

    My son’s trady mates are all still on site doing exactly what.they do, just not going out on the weekend and blowing hundreds clubbing.

    And we should have been allowed to continue to attend mass. 🙁

  55. There is no ‘neutralising’ Monty. There is managing hospital admissions while hoping the virus mutates and weakens.

    Yeah righto Neville.

  56. Rebel with cause

    And we should have been allowed to continue to attend mass.

    The churches should have showed some spine. Perhaps next time around (and there will be a next time now with this precedent) people won’t be so quick to assume government has their best interests at heart.

  57. notafan

    You’re the one claimimg a ‘complete’ lockdown will bring peace in our time.

  58. notafan

    Rebel.

    Yes.

    People have brains.

    The holy water fonts were empty, people were practicing social distancing and the receipt of the Eucharist, which is not compulsory, was being done with great care.

    I suppose some might have insisted on their rights though, in the face of crowding.

    But weekdays ?

    Absolutely no problem.

  59. Tel

    One thing I have been surprised to discover is how tenuous principles are in a crisis. Yesterday’s libertarian is today’s Whitlamite interventionist – singing from the same “expert” song sheet that blamed Scott Morrison and coal for the summer’s inferno. That was just weeks ago.

    Like who exactly?

    What I heard was blame on the State governments for lack of preparation, blame on the Green regulations for making everything more difficult than it needed to be and blame on Scott Morison for getting involved at all in a state matter because he cares more about what Twitter thinks than the Australian Constitution.

    You mean to say I wasn’t sufficiently loud and obnoxious over those issues?

    I can have another bloody try at it if you want that.

  60. max

    George Friedman:
    a total quarantine is impossible, and second, the more aggressive the quarantine is, the more pressure it puts on vulnerable supply chains that sustain life.
    Much of the economy cannot be sustained with social distancing. Social distancing reduces economic activity and could lead to economic failure. The danger of the social distancing strategy in all of its dimensions is not only the immediate decline of the economy but its systemic destruction. The destruction of current business activity can result in permanent destruction.
    Creating a system in which all other human beings are seen as potential threats will have unfortunate effects. But to be simplistic about this, there is the concept of cabin fever.
    The longer-term outcome of the medical solution and the damage to the economy could be a depression neither the government nor society can cope with.
    The economic system cannot withstand social distancing for that long without consequence. The social system cannot withstand the stress of isolation coupled with fear of poverty. The stresses snowball.
    we should remember that economic destruction due to war gave rise to Hitler and Lenin. Economic destruction in any form is destabilizing. But that is for later.
    For now, the crisis is not only the virus but the inability to combat it without massive economic cost, and ultimately social unrest.

    During Europe’s great Black Death, citizens marched with torches and burned those they felt were ill and those they felt were responsible for the illness.

    It was not only the plague that created a time of horror but the legitimate fear it generated in people and the inability of the state to protect them, in a world where kings were as likely to die as peasants. The virus is dangerous. The follow-on effect can be far more dangerous.

  61. You’re the one claimimg a ‘complete’ lockdown will bring peace in our time.

    Um… what? So you want us to fight the virus on the beaches? Worst Churchill ever.

  62. notafan

    From Neville to Winston, just like that.

    Which makes no sense, btw.

    Now tell as more about the magic of complete lockdown.

  63. Tel

    So the government has forced all pubs, cafes etc to close, but actual people in quarantine can do as they please and there is no law to stop them doing so?

    WTF is going on?

    It does appear they are going out of their way to male the worst possible decision at every single point. They can’t manage the relatively simple task of protecting the national borders and when a known plague ship pulls up to the dock they let everyone disperse into the general population … but when a small business wants to sell lunch to healthy young people it gets closed down. If I didn’t know better I would say this is a genuine sabotage operation.

  64. Tim Neilson

    Um… what? So you want us to fight the virus on the beaches? Worst Churchill ever.

    Spectacular own goal monty.

    It’s the full lockdown cheer squad who are fighting the virus on the beaches.

    And, since you’ve refused to answer my question a number of times now, I’ll try something different.

    What economic sacrifices are you making to help save humanity from the virus?

  65. Judge Dredd

    the Coronavirus curve goes down while the retarded curve keep going through the roof.

  66. What economic sacrifices are you making to help save humanity from the virus?

    The minimum possible. And that means a lockdown as soon as possible, so we can come out the other side as soon as possible.

  67. egg_

    come out the other side

    In “6 – 12 months time”?
    Guess who doesn’t have a real job?

  68. candy

    The minimum possible. And that means a lockdown as soon as possible, so we can come out the other side as soon as possible.

    I think you are right in that Monty. If one believes in the lockdown, that it will save lives, then it should happen immediately. Tomorrow. The shillyshallying should not go on.
    I have grave doubts about the economy and the effect on millions of people. We can give so many people double Jobseeker but what happens when it is all over? Take it back? Coming out the other side will be difficult.

  69. It’s absurd.

    Because montty means no such thing.

    Or he really means no food no electricity no hospitals etc

    And of course monty would have to maintain completely closed borders permanently.

  70. egg_

    It does appear they are going out of their way to male the worst possible decision at every single point.

    Per comments in the OT, Their ABC is now starting to openly question Government actions, the undermining of SloMo is underway.

  71. Hay Stockard

    Monty,
    You’re squealing like a girl because you think you are high risk because of your questionable habits. Yet you think it’s funny when someone who isn’t of your disgusting political genre tests positive for the Kung flu. Which in the greater scheme of things will be a nothing burger. You really should stop worshipping shibboleths. They seem to frighten you.
    Anyway a lot of us have problems. Can’t find tonic water for love nor money around here. If I am reduced to gin squash before this hysteria is over there will be heads on pikes.

  72. Tim Neilson

    The minimum possible.

    Now we’re getting somewhere.

    How exactly is your economic sacrifice, albeit “minimum”, manifesting itself monty?

  73. How exactly is your economic sacrifice, albeit “minimum”, manifesting itself monty?

    As my business is in sporting media, I stand to lose a large five figure sum due to the lockdown. Possibly six figures if the season isn’t completed. That is already baked in, to be honest. I am seeking to keep the damage somewhat manageable.

    This is not about me though. It is about the basic maths of pandemics, as summed up by that famous St Louis vs Philadelphia graph with the high and flat curves. It is not hard to understand. Unless you are motivated to misunderstand it.

  74. Pyrmonter

    Various here and in linked places – Jo Nova comes to mind – were mightily concerned about the modern Yellow Peril descending on our universities. Pity they seem to have missed the returning locals and visitors from Europe and North America:

    https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/images/publications/2020/03/covid-19-cases-acquired-overseas-by-region-or-country-acquired_5.png?itok=IvTvY1q2

  75. BorisG

    I haven’t read any comments but this post from CL is nonsense. For one thing, politicians are not just following the media circle. Real leaders don’t follow the media, they lead from the front. Bibi Netaniahu sounded an alarm before Israel saw its first case, and when the vast majority of politicians and pundits were still in denial. Bibi said literally ‘when (not if) this virus arrives on our shores, we will need to impose extremely stringent measures to slow down and contain its spread. Love or hate Bibi, but he is not known to be blindly following the media. Yesterday he has put the country into total lockdown, with people allowed out of their home for essential purposes only (of which interestingly one is political demonstrations).

    At the other end of the spectrum is Bibi’s friend Brazil’s Bolsonaro, who said this crisis is a media beat up and condemned the states for shutting down the economy. Brazil is fortunate to have a robust federal system, where states will do what voters entrusted them to do.

    Another obvious error here is about Italy’s dysfunctional health system. The epicenter of the epidemic in Italy is Lombardy, which has one of the best hospital system in Europe.

    In summary, I am happy that our leaders don’t take advice from CL or Sinc for that matter. Not at the time of crisis anyway.

    But whatever your thoughts, stay healthy and be nice to your loved ones. And to your fellow Cats (as far as possible). Cheers

  76. BorisG

    Trump said yesterday that he wants the restrictions lifted by Easter because the cure shouldn’t be worse than the disease. Either he does not understand how grave the disease is (about 2 million dead in the US give or take), or he knows but does not care (cos we have road deaths and this does not stop us from driving). I hope it is the former.

    Actually I hope that he was just bullshtting to prop up the markets. If so, it worked marvels.

  77. Going up this thread:
    Monty is correct.
    IT is correct.
    All of those who are against a harsh lockdown are those who will be still living in the same house, with finances & equity basically unchanged, after 6 months or more of Scomo’s Clayton’s lockdown (restaurants closed, shopping malls open, fines for selling a meal, no fines for touring the country with a “positive” test result in your wallet & sneezing on everyone)

  78. BorisG

    No, dear experts, young people enjoying sun and fresh air at Bondi were not a threat to the nation.

    I think they have blood on their hands.

  79. Infidel Tiger

    Trump said yesterday that he wants the restrictions lifted by Easter because the cure shouldn’t be worse than the disease. Either he does not understand how grave the disease is (about 2 million dead in the US give or take), or he knows but does not care (cos we have road deaths and this does not stop us from driving). I hope it is the former.

    There’s fewer than a 1000 dead. And they are almost all in NYC, a dirty leftist hellhole.

  80. JC

    There’s fewer than a 1000 dead. And they are almost all in NYC, a dirty leftist hellhole.

    You realize, you’re hero, the pussy grabber is from that lice infested hellhole, right?

  81. Infidel Tiger

    Yeah he’s a Queens boy.

  82. BorisG

    There’s fewer than a 1000 dead. And they are almost all in NYC, a dirty leftist hellhole.

    Did you look at the curve?

  83. Sinclair Davidson

    Gentlepeople – m0nty’s livelihood is dependent on there actually being a footy season. As things stand I suspect there isn’t going to be a season this year. m0nty is not in a privileged financial position that I’m aware of. He is genuinely concerned for his life.

  84. Infidel Tiger

    Get back to me when this thing goes exponential Boris.

    Right now it’s completely under control and causing no strain on the system. That’s a fact.

    All the drama is about what it might do, not what it’s doing.

  85. Infidel Tiger

    I have always liked Monty. Annoying as he is.

  86. egg_

    about 2 million dead in the US give or take

    Clown Universe.

  87. egg_

    He is genuinely concerned for his life.

    And you have doom clowns like “BorisG” posting?

  88. Sinclair Davidson

    Boris – you’re very taken by that study.

  89. C.L.

    CL is literally saying that the old, sick and weak under his preferred do-nothing coronavirus policy are like the Allies on the beach at Normandy, getting cut down by Hun artillery fire like mangy dogs.

    The allusion to Roosevelt was about solutions.
    He could have called off the invasion. He could have thought, ‘let’s see how the Sovs go for a bit.’ He could have concluded the secret was out and the invasion was doomed. But a mission had to be completed and there was no going back. He’d been briefed about the likely casualties.

    Did he have a “solution” – I mean, to modern eyes and sensibilities?
    No. There was – by our standards – no acceptable solution available.
    Except the terrible truth.

  90. Infidel Tiger

    Boris the dude who did all the modelling (Neil Ferguson) that has influenced most of the response has since completely changed his tune.

    No one says it ain’t serious but it ain’t destroy the world economy serious.

    2,000,000 Australians unemployed for 12 deaths, some of which we flew here to die!

  91. BorisG

    IT, look at US cases

    https://public.tableau.com/profile/marc.psaila#!/vizhome/Coronavirusfortableaupublic/Coronaviruscasesbycountry

    Perhaps a significant percentage of the growth is due to increased testing: US started testing in earnest very late. But still this level of growth does not show it is under control.

  92. BorisG

    Sinc, I read lots of stuff but so far this was the most serious study I have seen. The more people see it, the better.

  93. Infidel Tiger

    Boris I reckon case load is unimportant.

    All that matters is hospitalisation rate and death rate.

    We are all going to get it.

  94. BorisG

    No one says it ain’t serious but it ain’t destroy the world economy serious.
    2,000,000 Australians unemployed for 12 deaths, some of which we flew here to die!

    Quoting current numbers shows you aren’t serious, which is ok. Current numbers are meaningless, what matters is the trajectory. If we want to avoid Italy we need the Israel/NZ style lockdown now.

  95. BorisG

    All that matters is hospitalisation rate and death rate.

    I do not disagree. But the trajectory, not current numbers.

  96. BorisG

    he dude who did all the modelling (Neil Ferguson) that has influenced most of the response has since completely changed his tune.

    Link? I’ve put your sentence into google and only found that Ferguson fell sick, likely with Covid-19. will keep looking.

  97. BorisG

    Sinc, when you give me a better study I will take notice and try to publicise it.

    Here is a panegyric to the guy in FT. Hope he recovers soon.

    https://www.ft.com/content/7e56cf84-6a9e-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

  98. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG

    Green Communist experts in Government, Politics, Business, Academia, Unions fkn wherever have shut down most of rural Australia to the extent that we have gone from one of the cheapest producers of electricity in the world to one of the most expensive.

    They have fkd our water management to produce food and fkd our timber industries so that forests just burn down without recourse.

    Now they are shutting down nearly ALL non government paid jobs

    When the cities of Australia start physically burning then you can worry.

    The Australian death toll from the current Chinese Virus is reported as 13 just moments ago.

    Show your fkn calculations for your extreme negative outlook.

  99. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG

    Government is a VIRUS

  100. NoFixedAddress

    and BorisG

    I am one of the finest Modellers I know and I call BULLSHIT on the commo green filth that are pushing drastic numbers.

  101. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG
    #3378365, posted on March 27, 2020 at 1:57 am

    All that matters is hospitalisation rate and death rate.

    I do not disagree. But the trajectory, not current numbers.

    What fking trajectory?

    Have you looked at the reports out of Italy, a commo country, and the existing co-morbidities of those that died?

    Or Spain, another commo country.

  102. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG

    Take your fkn tin foil hat off and smell the flowers

  103. BorisG

    Have you looked at the reports out of Italy, a commo country, and the existing co-morbidities of those that died?
    Or Spain, another commo country.

    and when it comes here you will say it is another country destroyed by commies.

  104. BorisG

    co-fkn morbility? Italy has more deaths from this in one month than the entire flu season.

    Indeed US had 20,000 confirmed flu deaths this year. This translates into ~4,000 in Italy. They already have nearly 8,000 and counting. And would have had a lot more without the lockdown.

  105. struth

    The insaity and Hysterics of the fearful, driven to ruin their civilizations by the propaganda of those who desire it, should really be in fear of their own governments .
    Their civilizations were based on nobody being above the rule of law.
    The ruling class are ruling by decree not by law , it seems they laugh at their newly imprisoned slaves and those fighting over toilet paper.
    They wipe their criminal arses with the constition , confident that their armed takeover won’t be fought by the decent citizens whom they disarmed in the 1990”s.

  106. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG
    #3378387, posted on March 27, 2020 at 2:41 am

    co-fkn morbility? Italy has more deaths from this in one month than the entire flu season.

    Indeed US had 20,000 confirmed flu deaths this year. This translates into ~4,000 in Italy. They already have nearly 8,000 and counting. And would have had a lot more without the lockdown.

    show me the source of your information BorisG

    I call you a liar

  107. NoFixedAddress

    and I will say it to your face BorisG

    Tell me where and tell me when

  108. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG
    #3378386, posted on March 27, 2020 at 2:36 am

    Have you looked at the reports out of Italy, a commo country, and the existing co-morbidities of those that died?
    Or Spain, another commo country.

    and when it comes here you will say it is another country destroyed by commies.

    BorisG

    It is already here and has been since at least January.

    We have 13 deaths.

    My 94 year old Uncle died in Lismore about 3 weeks ago.

    Kidney failure they said.

    Fer fk sake, just call it OLD AGE and a life well lived.

  109. BorisG

    https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-02-21/flu-season-thats-sickened-26-million-may-be-at-its-peak

    It says 14,000 died from flu in the US this year. Even fewer than I wrote (but it probably increased since then).

    7,500 deaths from Covid-19 in Italy, a country 5 times smaller population https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Please apologise (if you are a man).

  110. NoFixedAddress

    struth
    #3378388, posted on March 27, 2020 at 2:41 am

    The insaity and Hysterics of the fearful, driven to ruin their civilizations by the propaganda of those who desire it, should really be in fear of their own governments .
    Their civilizations were based on nobody being above the rule of law.
    The ruling class are ruling by decree not by law , it seems they laugh at their newly imprisoned slaves and those fighting over toilet paper.
    They wipe their criminal arses with the constition , confident that their armed takeover won’t be fought by the decent citizens whom they disarmed in the 1990”s.

    Struth

    what frightens me more than the CCP Virus is the importation of tribes into Australia by the green commos.

    when, not if BorisG, the cities start to burn then its every man for himself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dawn_(2012_film)

  111. NoFixedAddress

    An adviser to Italy’s minister of health, Professor Walter Ricciardi, said the coronavirus death rate in Italy may be higher than in other countries not only because of demographics — Italy has the second oldest population in the world — but also because of the way Italy records deaths of those who have tested positive for the coronavirus.

    “The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus,” Prof. Riccardi told The Telegraph.

    “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 percent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,” the professor explains.

    The professor is not alone, as others say it’s way too early to know the true mortality rate so long as the number of mild cases in the country remains unknown.

    Italy’s older population may also explain the large number of deaths being attributed to the coronavirus.

    “The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older – the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” the professor says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

    A study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 87 percent of the deaths in Italy attributed to the coronavirus and 40 percent of known infections have been people 70 years of age or older.

    The coronavirus obviously poses a threat to the health and well-being of people all around the world, but it’s probably a good idea to balance the panic and all the dire forecasts with a little bit of critical thinking.

  112. NoFixedAddress

    FUCK OFF BORISG you commo xunt

  113. NoFixedAddress

    Did you notice BORISG that the adviser to Italy’s minister of health, Professor Walter Ricciardi, said on re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 percent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,” the professor explains.

  114. NoFixedAddress

    So yes you despicable rat arse I’ll meet you any time and any where and call you, BORISG, a LIAR to your face.

    How’s them apples?

  115. NoFixedAddress

    And I will call out every despicable fkn so called expert in Australia.

  116. BorisG

    You are a clown NFA. It is well known that this virus kills primarily people with underlying medical conditions.

    The death toll from this virus is growing faster than exponential. Currently it is doubling every 6 days and this interval is gradually decreasing. If it keeps doubling like this it will reach 1 million in one month.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/

    The hope is that drastic measures will slow it down. So far there is no sign of that, but serious measures have only just begun so we hopefully see the effect in one-two weeks.

  117. BorisG

    Sorry not 1 million, 600,000. Sounds better, right ? 1 million by 3 May.

  118. struth

    Change your sheets Boris you gulluble idiot.

  119. struth

    Gullible small buttons late at night.

  120. NoFixedAddress

    I’ve always been a dumb boy from the bush

    SO

    we go from 22340 world wide reported CCP-Virus deaths as of 5 minutes ago to 1 million world wide CCP-Virus deaths by 3 May?

    Tell me dear BorisG, do you personally know anyone that has died?

  121. struth

    Experts are usually bureacrats who have much to gain by spreading disaster porn the least of which is larger departments, promotion and power while being totally insulated from the misery their mischief creates for those that pay for them.

  122. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG

    Why do you think removing freedom can fix it?

    Are you stuck in the green communist mind set that only gubbmint can fix it?

    Don’t you understand how gubbmint departments are busy making excuses and holding back how private enterprise might fix it.

    Any time anywhere BorisG… you are a 5th columnist.

  123. NoFixedAddress

    BorisG

    You, as well as all the other disaster porno people in Australia have no idea of the tsunami of contempt you are building.

  124. DHS

    people are being as opinionated as ever but they’re not sure they’re right.

    I’m 100% certain I’m right. But I don’t look to other people’s opinions to formulate my own. I’m happy to use other people’s observations (so long as they’re verifiable) to assist me but not their beliefs.

    I know for a fact that all the tests are completely meaningless.

    I know for a fact that this virus is not new and not pathogenic.

    I know for a fact that, given there are 7 billion people, each carrying hundreds of trillions of viruses on them, that fearing one solitary virus (let alone believing you can slow down its “spread”) makes you a bona fide lunatic.

    I know for a fact that any vaccine we conjure up will be ineffective (although I suppose if it meant we stopped trashing the economy it would have some value).

    I know for a fact that, whereas all of you have destroyed your credibility by falling for this nonsense and you’re only just starting to back away now, I have remained steadfast in my knowledge that the whole thing was a lie from the very moment someone described the virus (sans evidence or logic) as being “novel”.

    I know for a fact that only a lunatic would think that doctors – who have historically been wrong about everything – have suddenly found infallibility when they claim that 80 year olds dying of heart attacks and strokes in northern Italy has everything to do with people dying of pneumonia in China.

    Don’t get me wrong, most of this article is sound but the fact is that there are a few of us who were completely right about this from day dot.

  125. DHS

    It is well known that this virus kills primarily people with underlying medical conditions.

    Yes. For those people who have seen “Mystery Men” it is like Invisible Boy who could only be invisible if nobody was looking at him.

    This virus has never killed a single person. Not one. Nor has it contributed to a single death.

    People die of things they have always died of but now doctors are blaming some virus because feelz.

  126. Iampeter

    – mere subject-matter that made choosing sides easy for everyone.

    Especially easy when you have no thoughts of your own on the subjects and just follow the herd you arbitrarily belong to.
    No, this virus hasn’t exposed anything really, but even I’m surprised by the almost total lack of any independent thinking or ideas.
    Just business as usual as everyone agrees on all the fundamentals while arguing about non-essentials.
    There’s really no mainstream voices pointing out that mere weeks of lock down will cause damage that will take years to recover from, let alone the current “indefinite” with “more to come” approach that our government has taken.

    Either he does not understand how grave the disease is (about 2 million dead in the US give or take), or he knows but does not care (cos we have road deaths and this does not stop us from driving). I hope it is the former.

    But the study you’re linking itself downplays what you’re saying. It’s fatality figures are very low, even inflated with Italian and Chinese numbers which throw the whole thing out because most of those fatalities are not because they have the virus.
    Also, those graphs don’t seem to show what happens if you increase capacity. They are only focused on rationing.

    Bottom line, this virus is definitely more serious than the flu and measure should be taken. The kind of measures that private enterprises were already taking in the weeks before government imposed lock downs.

    But these indefinite lock downs are not adding anything extra in terms of slowing spread but are instead causing massive economic damage which is going to be more serious for our civilization than anything this virus could’ve caused.

    Oh and don’t worry about Trump. He isn’t going to do anything. He has left all the action to the horrible state governments so that he can avoid taking any blame for anything. He is just coming out with these soundbites so that his most mongoloid and trailer park supporters can keep pretending he is the opposite character to what he actually is.

  127. NoFixedAddress

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    #3378404, posted on March 27, 2020 at 3:29 am

    BorisG
    #3378398, posted on March 27, 2020 at 3:07 am

    https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-02-21/flu-season-thats-sickened-26-million-may-be-at-its-peak

    It says 14,000 died from flu in the US this year. Even fewer than I wrote (but it probably increased since then).

    7,500 deaths from Covid-19 in Italy, a country 5 times smaller population https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Please apologise (if you are a man).

    A more HONEST MAN than you are supposed to be BorisG

    Death rate in Italy from 2002 to 2019 per 1,000 inhabitants
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/568024/death-rate-in-italy/

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/03/21/so-thats-why-italys-coronavirus-death-rate-is-so-high-n2565445

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/

    An adviser to Italy’s minister of health, Professor Walter Ricciardi, said the coronavirus death rate in Italy may be higher than in other countries not only because of demographics — Italy has the second oldest population in the world — but also because of the way Italy records deaths of those who have tested positive for the coronavirus.

    “The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus,” Prof. Riccardi told The Telegraph.

    “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 percent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,” the professor explains.

    The professor is not alone, as others say it’s way too early to know the true mortality rate so long as the number of mild cases in the country remains unknown.

    Italy’s older population may also explain the large number of deaths being attributed to the coronavirus.

    “The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older – the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” the professor says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

    A study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 87 percent of the deaths in Italy attributed to the coronavirus and 40 percent of known infections have been people 70 years of age or older.

    The coronavirus obviously poses a threat to the health and well-being of people all around the world, but it’s probably a good idea to balance the panic and all the dire forecasts with a little bit of critical thinking.
    PISS OFF BORISG you commo xunt

  128. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    m0nty’s livelihood is dependent on there actually being a footy season. As things stand I suspect there isn’t going to be a season this year. m0nty is not in a privileged financial position that I’m aware of. He is genuinely concerned for his life

    Perfesser – he has long this site’s most strident advocate of big stupid government.

    He is now receiving what he so fervently wished for – even more big stupid government, good and hard.

    Zero sympathy.

  129. Iampeter

    One thing I have been surprised to discover is how tenuous principles are in a crisis. Yesterday’s libertarian is today’s Whitlamite interventionist

    Just on this.
    Many of “yesterday’s libertarian’s,” like most conservatives, don’t have any anti-interventionist principles to begin with.
    This is the biggest issue I’m always posting about, so their commentary isn’t really surprising.

    What is pretty funny though, is all the nationalists, who support a government arbitrarily meddling in the affairs of people going about their business under normal circumstances, suddenly opposing the government intervention when there is at least a pandemic that can be used as a pretext.

    Suddenly the Cat is full of atheist, commie, globalists who don’t believe in borders!

  130. Get back to me when this thing goes exponential Boris.

    Right now it’s completely under control and causing no strain on the system. That’s a fact.

    All the drama is about what it might do, not what it’s doing.

    This is just foolishness by you, IT.

    Doctor: IT, I am sorry to advise you that you have cancer.
    IT: But I feel fine now doc, I don’t think I’m sick.
    Doc: You have six months to live without treatment. If you don’t start chemo now, it will progress in exponential fashion and you will die in six months.
    IT: Nah mate, I’m fit as a fiddle, get back to me when I’m actually feeling crook.
    IT (six months later): … [expires]

  131. DHS

    Doc: You have six months to live without treatment. If you don’t start chemo now, it will progress in exponential fashion and you will die in six months.

    Hahahahahahaha!!!

    Good analogy you fool.

    Chemo is extremely dangerous and there is no valid evidence that it has ever saved a single life.

    And people spontaneously recover from cancer. Doctors of course never tell people that but it’s true and it completely destroys the oncological paradigm.

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