Open Forum: July 9, 2011

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1,345 Responses to Open Forum: July 9, 2011

  1. Gabrielle says:

    I hear Germany is reverting back to coal after dumping nuclear power.

  2. Infidel Tiger says:

    The thing you should be “frightened” about – future climate and sea level change – you ignore

    BWAHAHAHA! You need hormone replacement therapy.

  3. Gabrielle says:

    FEDERAL Treasurer Wayne Swan says media outlets that oppose a price on carbon should not pretend that their coverage is balanced.

    Same entreaty as before, please keep talking Wayne.

  4. jtfsoon says:

    The extent to which renewables can replace Steve:

    Well, Steve is mostly wind and piss so that’s not hard

  5. C.L. says:

    She has displayed no sign of panic…

    LOL. She has had two huge blubs – the first brought on by the “wooden” criticism dyring the floods, the second by a meet ‘n greet gone horribly wrong.

    And if the East Timor Papuan Malaysian ‘Solution’ and the cattle catastrophe weren’t driven by panic I don’t what was.

    Compare this to her predecessor, who used to take Japan to the International Court of Justice every time his poll figures fell below the temperature of a Canberra summer’s day.

    OK, Annabel. I’ll compare using the power of Google:

    Gillard stands firm on whaling.

    JULIA Gillard yesterday refused to criticise the anti-whaling environmental group Sea Shepherd.

    The Prime Minister clarified her stance after being challenged by the Japanese media to condemn the group’s’ “criminal actions” in pursuing Japanese whalers in the Southern Ocean.

    She has also emphatically rejected any suggestion that Australia might dump its International Court of Justice challenge to the hunt.

  6. C.L. says:

    The thing you should be “frightened” about – future climate and sea level change…


    Steve’s afraid of drowning.

    Steve, get yourself some abatement, old fella.

  7. Rococo Liberal says:

    FEDERAL Treasurer Wayne Swan says media outlets that oppose a price on carbon should not pretend that their coverage is balanced.

    And I say that any media outlet that supports a price on carbon should not pretend that their coverage is balanced.

    Gee that gets a lot further doesn’t it?

    Swan is the dumbest fuck of all time.

  8. C.L. says:

    Swan is the dumbest fuck of all time.

    Ruddy didn’t call him DC for nothing.

  9. daddy dave says:

    a meet ‘n greet gone horribly wrong.

    They were hoping for some member of the public to get angry, shout at her, and go over the top, so there’d be a backlash against “Random Person” and in favour of the calm, polite Julia.
    Why else would they send her out into the wilds of Australian public space like that? Didn’t work.

  10. JC says:

    Nanabel Crabb writes (“writes” applied loosely).

    How do we know that it’s not a greenwash? Because petrol is exempt. Because two steel giants, BlueScope and OneSteel, this week declared themselves mollified.

    This woman is a freaking moron. She should not be employed as a writer.

    Look Nanabel, you twit, Ist Steel and Bluescope are becoming wards of the state with subsidies of $250 million. So from taxpaying entities we the taxpayers (not you, because you’re a public sector tax eater) will now be paying them. That’s a big turn around.

    Even the zinc smelter dudes seem comparatively relaxed.

    No they aren’t. That’s a lie. Their respective rep organization has spoken up against the tax.

    And we know the coal industry can’t be entirely doomed, because Peabody Energy wants to pay $5 billion for Macarthur Coal.

    You twit, Nanabel exported coal is exempted from the tax. In other words Chinese consumers enjoy burning our coal without a tax while we can’t.

    Ms Gillard has also undertaken some substantial structural tax reforms that were too hard for her predecessors, raising the tax-free threshold in a way that encourages greater workforce participation at the bottom end of the income scale.

    Oh yea. They have to first find a job nanabel and with all the regulation in the labor markets that’s gunna be a bit harder then you think.

    Given the hysterical feel to the last few days, it seems counter-intuitive to observe that if you ignore the hobgoblin, the PM’s actually had a pretty good week. But it’s true.

    We’d have a better week, perhaps even years, if you just stayed home and minded the kids.

    Nanabel, 1st Steel and Bluescope will lose $135 and $175 million from their bottom line according to an international I-bank. Give those losses a multiple of 8 times earnings and you end up with $1.080 and $1.4 billion in capitalization loss. That’s just two companies, you foolish ignorant, loud mouth. Add up all the loss of profitability together with market capitalization and we’re talking about a load of money.

  11. Infidel Tiger says:

    I think we can safely say the economy is rooted.

  12. JC says:


    Forget the Wetpatch dude and always listen to me. I’ve been saying for months and months now that the next rate move would be down. It’s going to come faster than what people think because the economy is tanking.

    Bank “market strategists” are essentially bank salespeople. There is never any cost to their useless gibberish. Ask trader what they think not these idiots that never take risk and spend their time babbling to the media.

  13. JC says:

    Take a looksee. This site gives a reasonably okay perpective.

    We have on of the flattest yield curves in the world at present with an economy that in the toilet bowl.

  14. Capitalist Piggy says:

    OK JC

    I promise, next time to ask you first about interest rates. 🙂

    So, I assume now is the time to go into a fixed-term deposit?

  15. JC says:

    lol Cap.

    Yea, take it out to 3 years or so, as I think rates aren’t going up till 2014/15

    This economy is basically rooted.

    There’s no growth astonishingly despite record terms of trade and these morons while these lunatics are now imposing a tax and raising even more off balance sheet borrowings.

    Only the Greens/ALP Alliance could raise a tax and then leave a hole in the budget because they’re spending more than they’re receiving from the tax.

    If there is one fucking person left in this country that votes for these economic vandals again at the next election they deserve to be hunted down and sent to an asylum for the mentally incapacitated.

  16. Infidel Tiger says:

    We won’t have to hunt them down, JC. They’ll be standing the mall licking the shopfront windows.

  17. JC says:

    Oh isn’t this cute. Women are treated like dirt, married off at 5 years of age, stoned to death if they so much look at male, hung if they cry rape… but hey, the snow leopard is just doing great. I can now sleep soundly this evening knowing there is a snow leopard in Afghanistan..

  18. JC says:

    It’s Friday Architectural Hour. If any of you uncultured reprobates don’t like it, don’t comment.

  19. TBH says:

    I’d like to have the money to contemplate something as outlandish as that house!

  20. Gabrielle says:

    That’s more like it, JC. Clean lines, spacious and yet has a home-y feel to it. Love the staircase visuals.

    Not sure what statement was being made piling rocks around the commode though.

  21. JC says:

    The stairs look positively terrifying, Gab. One misstep and you’re in a wheel chair for the rest of your life. sleeping in a makeshift room off the kitchen.

  22. Gabrielle says:

    You sound like Steve, JC.
    Stop it.

  23. coz says:

    screams parvenu.

  24. Oh my God. JC and I had a meeting of minds.

    I was going to say exactly the same thing about those stairs. You see this all the time in Japanese homes on Dezeen. In foreign countries, death trap stairs are quite acceptable, as long as they look cool.

    But look – that house suffers from too much freaking glass. Particularly for anyone living in Brisbane, we know that the amount of light that may be streaming into the bedroom from 4.45 am just makes glass wall bedrooms ridiculously impractical.

    Glass walled houses always look nice – I just can’t imagine them being good places to live, though.

  25. MarkL of Canberra says:

    Hokay, found some figures I could validate:

    Replacing Hazelwood with wind and gas generators (Scenario 1) is only 3% better than the gas only option for the amount of emissions avoided. However, the wind and gas option (Scenario 1) is much more costly than the gas only option – see Table 3. The wind and gas option is 3.7 times the capital cost, 3 times the emissions avoidance cost, and, importantly for most people and industry, the cost of electricity is nearly double that of the gas only option. Thus, their stated criteria of “minimising any increase in electricity bills” is not satisfied.
    On this basis it is clear that the wind and gas option should not be considered further. For currently available replacement technology in Australia, the gas only option is by far the cheaper option, and has only slightly (3%) higher emissions.
    Nuclear option
    I also considered a ‘Nuclear’ option. It is informative to consider this option because it demonstrates why we should not continue to delay the decisions to allow nuclear to be an option for new electricity generation capacity in Australia. Had the Hawke Government not banned nuclear from consideration during the Ecologically Sustainable Development work 20 years ago, we could have five operating nuclear power stations by now, be past the period of FOAK (first of a kind) costs, and have nuclear power providing clean electricity at a competitive cost. In this case our emissions from electricity generation would be near 20% lower than they are today. The clear message from this is we should not delay the decision to allow nuclear as an option for generating our electricity in the future.
    If nuclear was an available option, replacing Hazelwood with nuclear would reduce emissions by 16 Mt/a. If the cost of electricity from nuclear power was the same as for the new nuclear power plants in Europe [5], the cost of electricity would be about $4/MWh (8%) more than the combined cycle gas plant option now, and much less as gas prices rise in the future. (Gas price is the main factor in the cost of electricity from gas generation, but fuel cost is a very small component of the cost of electricity from nuclear). Table 4 lists the key results:


    First I have seen of this site, so I have no idea if it’s a pro-AGW warmie one, neutral ‘what are the facts’, or AGW = bunkum sorta site.

    What IS clear from the cost analysis is that the most expensive and least efficient way to replace Hazelwood is the one the bedwetters of the apocalypse greentards want.


  26. Also, it looks like there is barely a window to be opened for fresh air. Air conditioning is nice, but not all the time.

  27. TBH says:

    Mark, Barry Brook is a AGW believer, but one who lives in the real world of the possible and is pro-nuclear. His was just about the best site to visit during the Fukushima “crisis”.

  28. JC says:


    Citigroup Jakarta banned from taking on new high wealth clients.

    Accusation 1.

    Client owning money on a credit card walks into a Citigroup branch to discuss it and doesn’t leave alive. The debt collectors may have beaten the shit of him causing brain damage.

    Accusation 2

    Client manager has two Ferraris, Mercedes and a Hummer accused of rifling through client accounts and stealing cash. She also had loads of cosmetic surgery.

  29. Gabrielle says:

    JC and I had a meeting of minds.

    Must have been a very short meeting.

  30. JC says:

    Also, it looks like there is barely a window to be opened for fresh air. Air conditioning is nice, but not all the time.

    Dickhead, there are windows and doors. You ever visited Central America, or know about the place? It’s a fucking furnace. You can’t live without a/c for nearly all the year.

    Go away stave.

  31. By the way, MarkL, I don’t support wind power at all.

    Solar has much more potential, I think.

    I do support nuclear, but suspect that the better way to implement it is to build smaller, modular reactors, and using designs that have passive safety as the no 1 priority.

  32. coz says:

    it’s too pointy.

  33. Gabrielle says:

    I do support nuclear

    The hell you do.

  34. Infidel Tiger says:

    If any of you uncultured reprobates don’t like it, don’t comment.

    I like the view.

  35. His was just about the best site to visit during the Fukushima “crisis”.

    Yes, if you wanted to be blackly amused about how hilariously wrong a pro-nuclear commentator could be in their initial assessments of a problem.

  36. JC says:

    Coz says:

    screams parvenu.

    Coz , as a Tasmanian, you just need to focus, like you all do, on going to pick up your Centrelink Cheque in that Greens infested rat hole. Don’t worry about architecture.

  37. Gab, your pathetic “oh it was no big deal” attitude to Fukushima does more to harm nuclear in the long run than a realistic assessment that an accident that causes the semi-permanent abandonment of a an area about the size of Melbourne shows that nuclear power has many lessons to be learnt.

  38. JC says:

    ….shows that nuclear power has many lessons to be learnt.

    Oh and what are those lessons, Stave, you nuclear physicist?

    List them in point form.

  39. Gabrielle says:

    Steve your bed-wetting over the nuclear “crisis” was pathetic. Your anticipation of thousands of deaths was quite horrid. But you probably find that funny along with planes falling from the sky.

  40. Gabrielle says:

    What “accident”, Steve?

    Oh you mean the twin natural disasters that hit Fukushima and swamped the Daiichi plant.

  41. JC, I already listed 3 from a Nature article in a post at my blog.

    I would add – public confidence would be much enhanced if new designs did not rely on a steady flow of water as a coolant.

    Gab: never at any stage did I anticipate “thousands of deaths”. Your accuracy at describing my position and claims is of CL-ian standard.

  42. Infidel Tiger says:

    A 1970’s reactor survived a 9 point earthquake followed by a freaking tsunami! Nobody died and yet soft headed fraidycats have gone completely off their trolleys about nuclear. This is like driving a car off the Grand Canyon, walking away and then saying you’ll never drive again because the glovebox won’t open.

  43. The natural disasters were over and done with in a few hours, Gab.

    The problems that will now last for, who knows, 50 years or so, then arose were to do with nuclear power plants that were there.

  44. Gabrielle says:

    Hey Steve – look at this

  45. People who won’t take sensible action against creating higher risk of very serious climate change are the last people you can expect to take a sensible approach to nuclear power.

    You’re a danger on any issue.

  46. Gabrielle says:

    The problems that will now last for, who knows,

    What problems, Steve, you over eager Chicken Little.

  47. Fleeced says:

    Hey Steve – look at this

    Alright Gab – there’s no call for death threats!

  48. sdfc says:

    The RBA isn’t concerned about the domestic economy. It has said time and again ongoing restraint in household spending is a prerequisite for rates to remain on hold.

    The terms of trade are near record levels, the only way the RBA will cut rates is if Europe blows up or if the arse falls out in China.

  49. MarkL of Canberra says:

    Thanks TBH.


  50. MarkL of Canberra says:

    IT, IT, IT… writing in haste is passe. This is good, oh yes, but it could be a bit better.

    A reactor designed in the 1960s and built in the 1970?s reactor and designed for a 7 point earthquake and a 5 metre tsunami survived a 9 point earthquake followed by a freaking 28 metre tsunami! Nobody died and yet soft headed fraidycats bedwetters of the apocalypse, Bob the Bungholer and other squealing poonces have gone completely off their trolleys about nuclear.

    Sounds better, no?


  51. “survived a 9 point earthquake followed by a freaking 28 metre tsunami!”

    “Survived” in the sense of: started blowing up over the following days and spreading contamination so that entire towns within 20 km are abandoned, as well other homes and farms up to 60 km away.

  52. Myrddin Seren says:


    Re the Citibank Jakarta scandals.

    I think Foreign Correspondent or similar did the story recently too.

    Here’s a link to the Jakarta Post on the penalties you mention.

    My recollection was that Indo banking officials were also quietly prepared to concede these High Nett Worth accounts at Citi and similar banks were probably being used to launder money and avoid tax. And a lot of well-connected people would not enjoy the scrutiny.

    If you scroll down the link to related items you will see Citi’s reponse has been….to transfer the local manager to Singapore !

    I despise Citi based on personal experience, and this just adds to the contempt. If they are going to run crooked operations – they could at least do so with a degree of competance.

  53. “What problems?”, says Gab.

  54. MarkL of Canberra says:

    So, Steve, a facility survives – without a major radiation leak, an event several orders of magnitude worse than it was designed for.

    Nobody dies except as a direct result of the quake and tsunami.

    Radiation levels are about the same as you get on a long-haul jet leg.

    There is no long term health threat.

    And this you regard as a “disaster.” Fair enough, it’s your subjective call

    I’d like your personal opinion on a slightly more lethal event.

    A government brings forward a piece of very poorly thought out public policy. Its sole advantage is that a small segment of its voter base loves this idea.

    Previous experience in 2-3 previous governments (of various political persuasions) gives ample proof that the new policy will lead to extensive loss of human life, and considerable suffering for large numbers of people.

    Within a few years, this policy has resulted in about 300 deaths, with billions of additional government expense being forced, and a lot of people in prison.

    In your personal view, which is the worst outcome of the two?

    What is your view on the public policy which resulted in the deaths?

    Is pleasing a small section of the voter base worth the hundreds of deaths?

    what moral responsibility for the deaths is borne by:
    a/ the government for implementing the poor policy and
    b/ the voter base which demanded it?

    Interested to see your personal views on this.


  55. C.L. says:

    Fukushima death toll: 0.

    Rudd/Gillard death toll: 200+

  56. JC says:

    So on that score, you would have argue nuclear plants are safer than an Greens/ALP Alliance government.

  57. MarkL of Canberra says:




  58. C.L. says:

    JC, on the stats, the Rudd/Gillard government is more dangerous than Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Fukushima combined.

  59. C.L. says:

    Hendo’s Media Watch Dog is up…

    On ABC TV News last Sunday, Kirrin McKechnie did three case studies on the response to the Prime Minister’s carbon tax announcement. Namely a female pensioner (who supported the carbon tax), a Lesbian couple with two children (who supported a carbon tax) and a heterosexual couple with two children (one of whom supported a carbon tax). So, according to Ms McKechnie spot poll, 80 per cent of Australians support a carbon tax. Yet, according to empirical polls, around 60 per cent of Australians oppose a carbon tax. Fancy that.


    Can you bear it? It only took The Age two weeks to report that a violent demonstration occurred outside the Max Brenner Chocolate Bar in the Melbourne CBD. The protest – in which three police were injured – took place on 1 July. It was first reported in The Age today – following Gerard Henderson’s column in last Tuesday’s Sydney Morning Herald which mentioned that the protest had been covered in the Herald-Sun but not by The Age or the ABC.

    Leftist anti-semitism? What leftist anti-semitism?

  60. MarkL of Canberra says:

    CL, it’s 300+. There was a vessel in November 2010 that vanished. It had about a hundred on it. There was another from Sri Lanka which also vanished about 15 months before that. 80-90.

    There’s word of 2-3 more, but these are the ones the AFP people smuggling team talk about around the bar as being certain.

    Anyone seen Steve, or has he done a runner?


  61. C.L. says:

    Obama’s America:

    94-year-old upset by TSA pat down.

    A 94-year-old wheelchair-bound Florida woman says a search she went through at Raleigh/Durham International Airport went too far.

    Marian Peterson said it happened July 6 as she went through a TSA security checkpoint before boarding a flight home.

    Peterson said she was selected for extra screening. First, security officers lifted her out of her wheelchair and helped her stand in a full body scanner. Then, she was given a physical pat down.

    “They took me to one side and they patted me down, and they made me stand for, with my arms out, for over 10 minutes,” she said. “I was beginning to feel that I wasn’t going to be able to continue to stand, I was going to fall down or something.”…

    Peterson’s family said it’s not just the length of the search they object to, it’s the way it was done.

    “She said it would be in-depth. She started the putdown, and at that point, she asked mom to spread her legs. She stood there with her legs spread and she checked every place thoroughly,” said Malone.

    “They groped her. All of her body. Her crotch, her breasts. And everything else,” said son Joe Peterson.

    Remember: all this is to avoid profiling Muslims.

  62. wreckage says:

    Fukushima has killed fewer people than sprouts.

  63. wreckage says:

    Fukushima nuclear catastrophe, about which Pro-nuke bloggers are “in denial”; Deaths: 0

    Delicious and healthful organic sprouts; Deaths: 48+

  64. wreckage says:

    In the C20th, food-borne illnesses killed more people than nuclear power and nuclear warfare combined, IIRC.

  65. Infidel Tiger says:

    Obama’s America:

    94-year-old upset by TSA pat down.

    As someone who has been place inside a glass cage by the TSA and forced to wait 5 mins while they located an explosives tester, I feel the old timers pain.

    Osama bin Laden and his cronies may not have won, but they damn near have.

  66. MarkL of Canberra says:


    Steve? Any answer to my 8:20?

    I think he’s legged it.


  67. Infidel Tiger says:

    That’s amazing Arbee. Who wouldn’t lose their seat?

  68. JC says:

    Shit. 60.50% lead? That would have to be a record.

    Labor will get to NSW levels before they’re done.

  69. JC says:

    That’s amazing Arbee. Who wouldn’t lose their seat?

    No kidding. Duck bum would hold on by the skin of her teeth. She could actually lose her seat.

  70. JC says:

    Keep talking Bob.

  71. Infidel Tiger says:

    It’d be Duck Bum and Simon Crean left. Maybe MarnFergn. They could form a reasonable party as long as they kicked Gillard out.

  72. Gabrielle says:

    heh. Those are some pretty numbers there, Arbee. Glad you posted them.

  73. JC says:

    It’d be Duck Bum and Simon Crean left. Maybe MarnFergn. They could form a reasonable party as long as they kicked Gillard out.

    But would they support the carbin pollushion tax?

  74. C.L. says:

    I pre-emptively summarise the next column of Peter van Onselen.

  75. tbh says:

    That poll is startling and well deserved. They are the most incompetent government in living memory. I could find plenty to agree with in the last Labor government, but absolutely nothing in this one. They have been a failure like few governments have been since federation.

  76. Arbee says:

    Bring back Turnbull.


  77. daddy dave says:

    Not really news anymore
    It is Morgan though, so may be underestimating coalition support

    Morgan’s polls have been the worst for Gillard lately. However there’s no reason to believe they’re wrong. Morgan traditionally hasn’t been biased towards the Coalition. (incidentally, people claim that Essential is pro-Labor but their polls show no bias toward Labor at all).

    I don’t know why Morgan shows the worst polls for Gillard. We’re into uncharted territory now, so we may be seeing subtle differences in the way the polls are calibrated that don’t show up in a more even contest.

  78. Infidel Tiger says:

    I predict 62-38 in the next Newspoll.

  79. C.L. says:

    Long way to go to the election, though, folks. Barring a bye-election or the ‘independents’ receiving a testicles transplant, I can’t see how this disaster ends before the scheduled polling day. And strange and vicissitudinal things happen in politics.

    Sorry to be a party pooper but there’s a law of diminishing marginal utility in watching polls fall. Eventually they stabilise and possibly start going up. This is a long game.

  80. Gabrielle says:

    Highlights from IPA hosted Freedom of Speech function.

    Hey Steve

    you’re going to enjoy this as your favourite journalist is featured on the vid.

  81. Infidel Tiger says:

    By the next election it’ll be 55-45 or closer. 40% of the population are parasites anda nother 10% are retarded. Elections swing on how the retards fill out their forms.

  82. C.L. says:

    The Australian electorate vectors towards 50-50-ish as poll day approaches. Bad polls now have the political advantage for Abbott of causing more and more screw-ups so that the 5 percent of swingers swap loyalties and lock in that change. So it’s important but it’s foolish to think 20-25 percent of voters are going to stay the course in their dissastisfaction. Even if, say, 10 to 15 percent do so in the weeks before an election (a la NSW), that would be remarkable, federally.

  83. JC says:

    Even if, say, 10 to 15 percent do so in the weeks before an election (a la NSW), that would be remarkable, federally

    I think this time it’s different like it would have been different if Whitlam had gone the full term which could have meant the obliteration of the Labor party.

    These polls are showing a remarkable dislike, which is now bordering of hatred, of the ALP.

  84. Infidel Tiger says:

    The worst Howard government had the biggest majority. It’s not good to win too big, makes ’em lazy. Stay competitve Jules!

  85. C.L. says:

    Atrocious political optics from one of the dumbest men ever elected president.

  86. Rafe says:

    Two years is a long time in politics but if the local economy and the US and the EU are all doing as badly as JC thinks (and me too)then we will well and truly in a winter of discontent when we go to the polls. We will be sinking in red tape. Power bills will be up. it will be obvious that everyone else is going gangbusters with emissions, etc. But even 45-55 would deliver something approaching the NSW result depending on the marginals.

  87. Arbee says:

    What is troubling for more moderate ALP types is the ongoing brand damage. They’ve been steadily moving towards this dire poll for 6 months with a brand new leader who just announced wonderful tax cuts and compensation for the lower end of the taxpaying spectrum.

    I said at the time they signed up with the Greens that the short term retention of power wouldn’t be worth the trashing of the ALP’s brand by being seen as governing with Brown’s crazy gang. Every bad poll emboldens Bob to say something even wackier, compounding the ALP’s problems.

    This was the big initiative to turn the govt.’s fortunes around. I know it’s only early but relying on Abbott not to be able to repeal the the tax if he wins the election is hardly a resounding rationale for a long term ‘reform’

  88. C.L. says:

    The talk of the immovability and immutability of the gas tax is just a demoralisation mind game. It will be easy to bone.

  89. Infidel Tiger says:

    It’ll be easier to bone than a drunk Paris Hilton.

  90. Rafe says:

    Good points Arbee, but they were trashing themselves under the Rudd administration. This is partly due to the cloud cuckoo Rudd platform (the education revolution, give me a break), regulation of the labour market and climate change as the moral challenge of our time.

    On top of that is the destruction of the quality and integrity of the public service since the Whitlam years, as described by John Stone in Quadrant. The result is complete stuff-ups in policy implementation over and over again. Stuffing up the page numbers of an important document is just the tip of the iceberg.

    If you think things were crook, watch the new regulators and their thousands of content-free and inexperienced clerks at work.

    Pray for Australia. (Well it worked for Legal Eagle)

  91. daddy dave says:

    The Australian electorate vectors towards 50-50-ish as poll day approaches.

    I don’t think we’re in Kansas any more, CL. This is a slow-motion trainwreck. And hey, you’re the one who, the day the Labor-Greens alliance was announced, predicted that it would spell the end of the ALP.

  92. C.L. says:

    It does spell the end, Dave. Morally, philosophically (already done) and almost certainly electorally.

  93. daddy dave says:

    Yeah well I guess you were right, even if electorally they continue. It was the end of the ALP as we knew it.

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