MRRT hurts our silicon valley

In The Australian today:

“Having given the Greens their tonne of flesh with the carbon tax, Julia Gillard is repositioning as quickly as she can to the middle. The “surprise” trip to Afghanistan, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the proposed uranium sales to India and Barack Obama’s visit to Australia all give the government a new, more mainstream gloss.”

About Henry Ergas

Henry Ergas AO is a columnist for The Australian. From 2009 to 2015 he was Senior Economic Adviser to Deloitte Australia and from 2009 to 2017 was Professor of Infrastructure Economics at the University of Wollongong’s SMART Infrastructure Facility. He joined SMART and Deloitte after working as a consultant economist at NECG, CRA International and Concept Economics. Prior to that, he was an economist at the OECD in Paris from the late 1970s until the early 1990s. At the OECD, he headed the Secretary-General’s Task Force on Structural Adjustment (1984-1987), which concentrated on improving the efficiency of government policies in a wide range of areas, and was subsequently Counsellor for Structural Policy in the Economics Department. He has taught at a range of universities, undertaken a number of government inquiries and served as a Lay Member of the New Zealand High Court. In 2016, he was made an Officer in the Order of Australia.
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38 Responses to MRRT hurts our silicon valley

  1. daddy dave

    I applaud many of her new-found sensible policies but I doubt it will give her a mainstream image.

    She’s still in alliance with the Greens;
    her endorsement of Craig Thomson still stands;
    she’s brought in a carbon tax;
    and wants a mining tax;
    she’s conducting a McCarthyist investigation of media;
    she has used her office to shut down investigations of her own personal past;
    she’s overseeing a massive nationalisation of IT infrastructure;
    she is the architect of the pro-union, anti-business Fair Work Act, and foolishly sided with the unions against Qantas;
    she lied about the carbon tax;
    she lied about not knowing about Abbott’s 2010 trip to Afghanistan;

    The best thing she can do is concentrate on good governance, a boring but worthy goal that might actually reduce her laughing-stock status from future history books.

  2. Jarrah

    “she lied about the carbon tax;”

    I just don’t get this assertion. Since when is a broken promise a lie? Unless the claim is that she deliberately lied about her post-election intentions?

  3. Winston Smith

    “she has used her office to shut down investigations of her own personal past”
    Strategically a bad move – had she opened the books, whilst in power, she would have had some control. Under a Royal Commission into the Financial Affairs of Australian Unions, she will have none.

  4. Token

    Since when is a broken promise a lie? Unless the claim is that she deliberately lied about her post-election intentions?

    This pathetic sophistry Jarrah, I thought your integrity was worth more.

  5. Jarrah

    “This pathetic sophistry”

    Are you serious? Broken promises are not lies.

  6. A lie is a false statement made in the knowledge that it is false.

    Gillard certainly broke a promise not to introduce a carbon tax. Whether she knew it was a false statement when making it is the key question as to whether it is a lie as well. Based on my assessment of her character, I’d say it’s both a broken promise and a lie.

  7. Gab

    Gillard made an election promise. Then in order to “win” the election she threw that promise out the window, along with her principles, quicker than you can say

    Whatever it takes.

  8. Jarrah

    “Whether she knew it was a false statement when making it is the key question as to whether it is a lie as well. ”

    Because she knew that neither major party would win a majority and that the Greens and Independents would hold the balance of power and that they would demand certain things in return for their support, among them a temporary CO2 tax in the lead-up to the ETS that she wanted to implement?

    Gosh. She’s a lying clairvoyant!

  9. JC

    Jazzabelle

    stop playing games. She’s a dishonest lying slapper for breaking a pledge.

    Stop being a pedant.

  10. Jarrah

    It’s not pedantry, JC. It’s plain common sense. Both DavidL and Gab have shown why.

    Do you think Abbott is a dishonest lying shite for breaking his pledges when in government?

  11. twostix

    Do you think Abbott is a dishonest lying shite for breaking his pledges when in government?

    By any reasonable persons definition she lied, she wasn’t forced into supporting the carbon tax, the greens would never have supported the liberals under any circumstances.

    She knows that, you know that and I know that.

    And so the whitewash begins ay?

  12. Jarrah

    She’d have to know that IN ADVANCE to have lied, twostix. No reasonable person can claim a broken promise is a lie.

  13. JamesK

    She’d have to know that IN ADVANCE to have lied, twostix. No reasonable person can claim a broken promise is a lie.

    So the majority of your fellow citizens are “unreasonable” by your contorted computations, Jarrah.

    Fascinating.

    She’s a lying dishonest slapper Jarrah. Get over it.

  14. Jarrah

    “the majority of your fellow citizens”

    Don’t equate the majority of your fellow asylum inmates with the wider population, Jimmy.

  15. Rococo Liberal

    You are quibbling Jarrah

    Whatever she did was dishonestand mendacious.

    The lie took place when she tried to deny that her agreement with the greens was consistent with the government’s statement before the election, and her denial of the voters’ right to an election to pronounce on a tax which had been rejected strongly at the 2010 poll.

  16. Gab

    Gillard: not going with Nauru as it’s not a signatory to UNCoN.

    Gillard: Malaysia Solution, doesn’t matter that it’s not a signatory to UNCoN.

    Was she lying in the first case or the second?

  17. Feral Abacus

    Don’t forget the well trotted apologist line about how she had to do it to form minority government. Bandt the Ant had already declared fealty to Gillard’s government within hours of becoming the Member for Melbourne, before any concrete deal was supposedly struck between the pinko parties. Gillard could’ve promised to personally fart out a million tonnes of C02 into the atmosphere and the Greenie Weenie would’ve still picked her over Abbott.

  18. twostix

    She’d have to know that IN ADVANCE to have lied, twostix. No reasonable person can claim a broken promise is a lie.

    Jarrah if you make a solemn promise then break it immediately and for the most pathetic of reasons you’ll be branded a liar.

    Welcome to society, it’s messy.

    You’d be livid if Howard or Abbott did the same thing, and you’d be calling them liars. Don’t pretend this isn’t you trying to whitewash some of the grotty stench off.

  19. twostix

    Don’t equate the majority of your fellow asylum inmates with the wider population, Jimmy.

    This is the same mindset that has a tiny bunch of stinking filthy upper middle class uni students claiming that they represent 99% of us.

    It’s indisputable that the majority of people in this country think Gillard lied to them, the majority aren’t happy with Labor and the left’s platform is totally on the nose across the english speaking world.

    That’s reality, deal with it.

  20. Jarrah

    Jimmy, your own link shows that you’re wrong. The question was:

    “Prime Minister Gillard has claimed that she has not broken an election promise in which she stated — ‘There will be no carbon tax under the Government I lead.’ Do you think Prime Minister Gillard lied about this promise?”

    So if you want to say the lie is when she claimed she didn’t break a promise, that’s fine. But you can’t say a broken promise is itself a lie. That would be nonsensical, as it would – as I pointed out – involve the promisor knowing precisely what the future holds.

    “You’d be livid if Howard or Abbott did the same thing, and you’d be calling them liars.”

    When they broke their promises, I called them out for breaking promises, as I did for Gillard. I didn’t call them liars, because that doesn’t make any sense.

  21. m0nty

    The best thing she can do is concentrate on good governance, a boring but worthy goal

    In fact, that’s her main task now. She’s bedded down the politics of her major policies, now she has to make them work. Rudd was spectacularly bad at this part of government. It remains to be seen whether the Gillard ministerial team can get the job done any better.

  22. JamesK

    Gawd love him, but Jarrah thrashing around in the makebelieve spoace between his ears is a sight to behold.

    So a lying about her promise is merely a broken promise, according to the perennial dense Jarrah

    I didn’t write this. Roy Morgan Research Polls did:

    “The Morgan Poll also asked electors whether they believe Prime Minister Julia Gillard lied about the proposed carbon tax. A large majority of electors (72%) agree that Gillard lied including 89% of L-NP supporters, but only a bare majority of ALP supporters (51%) and Greens supporters (53%). Although only 8% of L-NP supporters say that Gillard didn’t lie, sizeable minorities of ALP supporters (36%) and Greens supporters (25%) also say that Gillard didn’t lie.”

  23. JamesK, you are being disingenuous.

    Whether Gillard lied or not is a function of her state of mind and knowledge. It’s not about whether you like or dislike her, or approve of anything she said.

    Jarrah is simply saying that a broken promise is not in itself a lie. That’s quite a simple proposition and not disputable.

    If you are certain that Gillard lied (which is not determined by what others think), tell us why. As far as I’m aware, nobody here knows the state of her mind at the time.

    My assessment is she probably did lie, but only because she’s a lying slag. I can’t prove it though, and so far you’ve presented no grounds for proving it either.

  24. Jarrah

    “So a lying about her promise is merely a broken promise, according to the perennial dense Jarrah”

    No, you fool. Lying about about a broken promise is a lie, but the broken promise isn’t a lie. Why is this so hard for you?

    The question said “claimed that she has not broken an election promise”, and asked if people thought this claim was a lie. Your three brain cells twisted it up to suit your bias.

    For those who still care – you can lie about the past and the present, but not about the future, because it hasn’t happened yet.

    DavidL at least has the integrity to acknowledge this fact. Gab implicitly acknowledged it. JC offers no argument, just more assertion. Rococo Liberal and twostix want to move the goalposts. JamesK, all alone, is confused by plain English and insisting on the impossible.

    /thread

  25. JamesK

    JamesK, you are being disingenuous.

    Point precisely to where you say I am being disingenuous David.

  26. JamesK

    No, you fool. Lying about about a broken promise is a lie, but the broken promise isn’t a lie. Why is this so hard for you?

    OK Perennial/Contortionist/Jarraslo, show me where I say the broken promise is a lie.

    I said: “So the majority of your fellow citizens are “unreasonable” by your contorted computations, Jarrah?”

    Perennial/Contortionist/Jarraslo as ever stupidly repiled: “Don’t equate the majority of your fellow asylum inmates with the wider population, Jimmy”.

    I then posted the Morgan Poll which says:
    “The Morgan Poll also asked electors whether they believe Prime Minister Julia Gillard lied about the proposed carbon tax. A large majority of electors (72%) agree that Gillard lied including 89% of L-NP supporters, but only a bare majority of ALP supporters (51%) and Greens supporters (53%). Although only 8% of L-NP supporters say that Gillard didn’t lie, sizeable minorities of ALP supporters (36%) and Greens supporters (25%) also say that Gillard didn’t lie.”

    Perennial/Contortionist/Jarraslo is hyperpartisan, deluded, dense and intransigent.

    QED

  27. Mining is NOT Australia’s Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley makes things. Mining depletes things. Silicon Valley lives on income. Mining lives on assets.

    Australia hasn’t got a Silicon Valley and will never get one until it stops taxing people who make things.

  28. daddy dave

    Are you serious? Broken promises are not lies.

    I guess I agree.

    But the way events played out, it’s hard to believe she even meant it at the time.

    The message that “the Greens made me do it” has been made indirectly with oblique comments on ‘minory government’ and has been disseminated through indirect channels such as compliant press gallery journalists, but she never actually stood up and said, “The Greens made me do it.” (or words to that effect).

    The perception remains that she wanted to do it anyway.

    So you’re right, Jarrah.

    A broken promise isn’t the same as lying. However, if she never meant it when she made the promise (and I don’t think she ever meant it), then it is pretty much the same as lying.

  29. daddy dave

    I’ve changed my mind. It was a lie, based on the evidence Sinclair provides in the more recent thread.

    Essentially, she was lying at the time about ALP policy.

  30. Viva

    To those who think she didn’t really lie.

    She went back on her solemnly given word. The fact that she caved in so promptly to the Greens demand shows she had no real commitment to the undertaking she had given to the Australian people on such a crucial make or break issue.

    She did what she continues to do every day. Say what she has to say, be what she has to be at any given moment to hang on to power for one more day.

    There – does that make you feel better about supporting her?

  31. Peter Patton

    What would really help our Silicone Valley is if we became the Reality TV capital of the world. All our chicks and aspiring wogs and Yanks would come to here to get silicone tits to compete.

  32. Peter Patton

    Broken promises are only ‘lies’ if the initial promise was made fraudulently at the time.

  33. Jarrah

    daddy dave, see my comment @2:40 on the other thread for the rebuttal.

  34. Gowest

    If mining does not make anything then how come it can be taxed and royalteed. Oops…

    Obviously a manufactured concentrate is a product that the world wants to buy, otherwise the greedy governmentium industry (which only produces hot air) would not be interesting in taxing it.

  35. daddy dave

    Jarrah, the most charitable thing we can say is that we can’t prove she was lying. Heck, people do make promises that they find later that they can’t fulfil.

    But I looks like it was part and parcel of her mentality at the time, which was ‘say and do anything to retain power.’ That includes things said in public as well as behind closed doors.

    So yes, we can definitively say she broke a promise (and lamely tried to pretend at first that she wasn’t breaking a promise); we suspect but can never prove for sure that she never even believed her own promise at the time she was making it.

  36. FDB

    DD – if you can’t prove someone was lying, the only honourable course is to stop asserting that they were lying.

    You know this already.

  37. Boris

    “Unless the claim is that she deliberately lied about her post-election intentions?”

    I think she admitted she always intended to introduce the bill

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