The gift that keeps on giving

Here’s my premise. Obama wants the Republican Party to nominate anyone but Romney and if he can’t stop Romney from being the nominee, he wants to ensure there is as much damage to him as possible between now and the convention.

You may have noticed the other day that Obama called on a fight over abortion that really came from out of the blue. He put forward a proposal that even religious organisations will have to provide health care with contraception and abortion included which led to a dust up and then partial retreat. The religious wing of the Republican Party rose up en mass whose net effect amongst other things has been to encourage support for Rick Santorum and to diminish support for Romney for whom such issues are peripheral both to his campaign and in his appeal for votes.

For myself, a candidate’s views on abortion and contraception must be as far from a personal concern when I vote as it could possibly be. It’s not that I have no view; it is that when I think of what I want from an American President, no position taken by any likely Republican candidate is ever going to influence my decision. Would that were true for everyone else.

Abortion for the Democrats is the gift that keeps on giving. There is an Alinskyite Marxist in the White House who has undoubtedly pulled punches in his first term to maximise the likelihood of winning a second term. He is possibly the worst economic manager in American history and is overseeing a series of foreign policy disasters that have left the US in an incomparably weakened position in relation to every major issue in the world today.

Yet for all that Obama is still the favourite to win in November. I have been astonished at the ability of the Obama administration to manipulate the electorate almost at will. I have quoted the following passage from Peggy Noonan before and will have reason to do so no doubt from now till November. Put everything Obama does and has done into the context of this kind of analytical ability:

The other day a Republican political veteran forwarded me a hiring notice from the Obama 2012 campaign. It read like politics as done by Martians. The ‘Analytics Department’ is looking for ‘predictive Modeling/Data Mining’ specialists to join the campaign’s ‘multi-disciplinary team of statisticians,’ which will use ‘predictive modeling’ to anticipate the behavior of the electorate. ‘We will analyze millions of interactions a day, learning from terabytes of historical data, running thousands of experiments, to inform campaign strategy and critical decisions.’

It is this kind of data mining that in my view almost certainly guides every action taken by this administration. Add to that a media totally sewn up, and you must wonder how Romney manages even to stay in the race.

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755 Responses to The gift that keeps on giving

  1. James that is interesting and to me it just shows how low the physical productivity is in the health system. So it is a massive drain on the system. To me this is an indication that governments in democracies should they have successful economies will manage to stuff up healthcare and other government regulated industries. When you are rich you can do stupid things for a while before failing. It is also a part of expanding government in general as a share of GDP. The end result is collapse in the entire system economically. So while it might be fair to say the US currently has richer people than other countries they are currently on a sharp downward slope in my opinion. Government debt levels around the same as PIIGS countries will eventually bring them un done.

  2. .

    James that is interesting and to me it just shows how low the physical productivity is in the health system.

    What? How?

  3. Around half the physical productivity for the same money spent in Australia is pretty bad. Other parts of the economy must be earning through good physical productivity otherwise the GDP will go down either through a lower dollar or lower incomes. It could also be considered false due to the reserve status of the USD.

  4. JC

    There’s a lot in there, Kel. So you’re saying the Dollar’s reserve status is what allows them to have what you consider to be an unproductive medical system?

    Interesting.

  5. JamesK

    it just shows how low the physical productivity is in the health system

    Rooly kelly?

    How so?

  6. JC

    Kelly:

    Where are you getting all this shit from, if I may ask?

  7. I do think that the reserve status of the USD has allowed the US government to do stupid things. I believe that Australia has never reached an extreme position with debt and government spending because we are small and nobody cares about us and until recently didn’t have AAA ratings. Now is an extremely dangerous time for Australia economically especially if Labor wins the next election because with our prized AAA rating we can run up huge debts with little effect and low interest rates until failure.

  8. JamesK

    That’s just baby-talk

  9. JC

    Kel

    Have you ever thought about the possibility that reserve status is voluntarily conferred and not commanded and in that respect the US must be doing some good things to be able to attract the capital?

    Is that possibly in your model?

  10. .

    I do think that the reserve status of the USD has allowed the US government to do stupid things

    WTF has this got to do with high US worker productivity and the affordability of value for money and high end PHI in the US?

    WTF!

  11. JC
    Observations between Aus, US and Thailand. Considering history of spending and tax rates along with social policies and government effectiveness at spending and policy. It appears to be a trend that a democratic country will become rich and then become stupid.

    Take these examples Snowy River Scheme versus NBN.
    Aus policy about energy carbon tax and MRET versus Thai policy of better information on energy use stickers and strong encouragement to have efficient vehicles running on natural gas or LPG. Snowy River Scheme and Thai energy policy make country richer, NBN and MRET and carbon tax make country poorer. 50 years ago we wouldn’t embark on such stupidity as we do now because we are rich.

  12. USD will lose reserve status fairly soon if nothing is done about government spending or China decides that.

  13. .

    WTF has this got to do with high US worker productivity and the affordability of value for money and high end PHI in the US?

    WTF!

    Come on now. Explain this toad licking.

  14. .

    Aus policy about energy carbon tax and MRET versus Thai policy of better information on energy use stickers and strong encouragement to have efficient vehicles running on natural gas or LPG. Snowy River Scheme and Thai energy policy make country richer, NBN and MRET and carbon tax make country poorer. 50 years ago we wouldn’t embark on such stupidity as we do now because we are rich.

    WTF has this got to do with PHI? Are you saying someone buying the Chubb plan is “stupid” and therefore “inefficient”?

    Stop licking toads!

  15. To put it simply I can be very productive if someone wants to lend me money cheaply I am the soveriegn with a reserve currency. If you want to give me a million dollars at 2% interest I will make a killing. If you cut that supply off then I can’t be productive. Same applies to companies as they are still USD assets which people will buy even if the return is lower due to reserve status. Having easier access to capital is a major advantage and guaranteed the US does not want to lose this status but they will if something is not done relatively quickly.

  16. .

    Christ almighty if I was still an academic and you wrote that on an essay paper I set for you on the topic of private health insurance, I’d consider committing suicide.

  17. Nothing directly to do with PHI but is just about government behaviour but PHI increases the cost of healthcare in the US as there is no incentive for them to reduce costs at the moment and they prefer higher costs anyway because they work on a margin.

  18. Dot
    Blame James he started the whole of economy arguement.

  19. .

    Christ almighty, shut up already or you may be charged with assisting a suicide.

    there is no incentive for them to reduce costs at the moment and they prefer higher costs anyway because they work on a margin

    WTF!

    Don’t you realise their margin will be bigger if they reduce costs?

    I’m done here. Next stop if I continue on this insane train of thought is a bottle of scotch, some nembutal and some Vera Lynn.

  20. Dot ok my last word on the subject reduced healthcare costs will only be a one off gain for the insurance companies eventually leading to lower revenue.

  21. JamesK

    kelly baby-talk liddle at 1:34 pm:

    Every single crony capitalist pig has their snouts in the trough in the US healthcare system. Insurance companies, healthcare providers, Pharmaceautical companies, Lawyers and probably left and right wing NGOs. There is nothing defensible about the US healthcare system except it could be argued that all the cash sloshing around does lead to increased drug research.

    kelly b-t at 3:00 pm

    Dot
    Blame James he started the whole of economy arguement.

  22. .

    Dot ok my last word on the subject reduced healthcare costs will only be a one off gain for the insurance companies eventually leading to lower revenue.

    Now you want to send accounting lecturers to an early grave.

    Revenue is not profit.

    FFS. Buy a fucking textbook.

  23. Pingback: John Quiggin » The zombie economics of austerity in Australia (updated again)

  24. JamesK

    I see the pup that is Quiggan’s remarkably inappropriate intellectual arrogance is taken for walkies again.

  25. .

    I shouldn’t link, but I will. While there is plenty of not-so-innocent amusement to be had, what struck me was that most of the commenters appear to be creationists – the handful holding up the flag for evolution are getting hammered.

    Not true.

    No one here is a creationist.

    The idea that evolution is a complete theory, doesn’t need work or was right to deny Lamarckian evolution for decades is completely and utterly wrong.

  26. BilB

    ” and you must wonder how Romney manages even to stay in the race”

    What the???

    I live in Australia and I have seen more of Romney than I ever need or want to, ever.

    The last thing that I saw Raomney espousing was that Iran is a global threat because soon they will be religious fanatics with their hands on Nuclear Weapons….and you don’t want that to happen….do you????

    Well,…Mitt…I hate to point this out to you, but if the Tea Party ever get to sit in the White House, that is exactly what we will have. Religious fanatics in control of this Planets largest Nuclear Arsenal….and, the Big Red Button, as well.

    Any Looney Tune who will use an argument like ‘Global Warming cannot be true because in the Bible God promised to not deliver another Flood” in the course of seeking a plum position in a US Environment Agency, is a total crackpot who puts the whole globe at risk. So yes, lets rush these idiots into the Commanders seat, give them the launch codes. How long will it take their super combover Secretary of State, Donald Trump to devise a Nuclear Arab Clearing plan to provide the free path to that oil “which is ours, and we are going over there to take it”. It is obvious why even a half baked intellect like GWB’s saw the wisdom in establishing liveable real estate far enough away,…on Mars.

    And then there are all of those “average Americans” being interviewed in the streets advising that “the government has got to stop spending, and create more jobs” as they scurry home with today’s cluster of purchases from WalMart. WalMart, that American stalwart company that buys absolutely nothing “made in America”.

    It is a simple message Americans. Your government is only a service, not the whole economy. If you do not start buying “home made”, you will all eventually have no jobs at all, and you will have to start taking economic advice from the Greeks.

  27. JamesK

    Presumably – after scanning the preceding dross – BilB followed the link from Quiggan’s first stage thinking, sanctimony central blog

  28. Adrien

    How long will it take their super combover Secretary of State, Donald Trump to devise a Nuclear Arab Clearing plan to provide the free path to that oil “which is ours, and we are going over there to take it”.

    He wouldn’t. He’s a real estate developer. He’s gonna make the whole place look like a combo Las Vegas/Miami/Disneyland Ballardian resort.

    Religious fanatics in control of this Planets largest Nuclear Arsenal

    They’re the good religious fanatics. 🙂

  29. BilB

    Yes, you presume correctly, JamesK, and I can see why Quiggin was amused.

  30. BilB

    There is no such thing as a “good religious fanatic” Adrien. In my experience the more “religious” a person becomes the more they are prepared to lie and cheat their way through life, and the the less regard they have for their neighbours and others. There are some exceptions of course, but they are just that, exceptions.

    Praise the Lord!

  31. Infidel Tiger

    In my experience the more “religious” a person becomes the more they are prepared to lie and cheat their way through life, and the the less regard they have for their neighbours and others.

    That explains all those Christian charities and hospitals. Despicable bastards.

  32. JC

    Well,…Mitt…I hate to point this out to you, but if the Tea Party ever get to sit in the White House, that is exactly what we will have. Religious fanatics in control of this Planets largest Nuclear Arsenal….and, the Big Red Button, as well.

    Lol. Who breeds these people? Where do they come from?

  33. .

    In my experience the more “religious” a person becomes the more they are prepared to lie and cheat their way through life, and the the less regard they have for their neighbours and others. There are some exceptions of course, but they are just that, exceptions.

    You’re a complete and utter fuckwit.

  34. .

    It is a simple message Americans. Your government is only a service, not the whole economy. If you do not start buying “home made”, you will all eventually have no jobs at all, and you will have to start taking economic advice from the Greeks.

    You uneducated, illiterate fool.

  35. JamesK

    Praise the Lord!

    There really is no such thing as a good anti-catholic, anti-religion radical secularist.

    They’re all green religious zealots except for the and there are no occasional exceptions

    Try the ‘brave’ critiques on with our Muslim brethren Bill, why donthca?

  36. BilB

    I thought that this would be time to remind ourselves what a religious nutter looks like, but alas the video has been pulled by…yes…a bunch of religious (you know, those open and honest types) organisations.

    http://www.juancole.com/2010/11/energy-committee-chairman-candidate-says-god-promised-no-more-catastrophic-climate-change-after-noah.html

    Energy Committee Chairman Candidate Says God Promised no More Catastrophic Climate Change after Noah
    Posted on 11/09/2010 by Juan
    Rep. John Shimkus (R-Ill.), who will seek the Energy and Commerce Committee chairmanship maintains that we do not have to worry about climate change because God promised in the Bible not to destroy the world again after Noah’s flood.
    The video I posted got pulled by YouTube as ‘spam’, which it isn’t, so I presume Google was successfully trolled; but I found another one; unfortunately it has added expletive subtitles for which I apologize. Update: A reader found a better one:
    YouTube has the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5WHkT45Vs

  37. .

    No warming for 15 years and estimates for glaciers melting overstated by centuries. Why bring religion into this you sad Marxist fucker?

  38. BilB

    JC and dot dash, great critique technique. Very enlightening. Deep.

  39. BilB

    What is your information source, dot dash, the palm of your hand?

  40. .

    Oh fuck of Marxist creep. You slurred 99.99% of religious people as psychotic cheats. You’re a lying piece of shit with baggage weighed in decades of therapy.

    Your comments about economics verge on tin foil hat territory.

  41. .

    What is your information source, dot dash, the palm of your hand?

    Use google, fuck knuckle.

  42. BilB

    I must be using a different google to yours, Dash Dot, because I get a completely different message to the one you seem to have extracted. Though I can see a path to your conclusions if one were to take random words from scientific studies to form and “abridged” compilation of the works. I can see that you are a creative kind of thinker.

  43. Oh come on

    What The Quiggler said about this thread:

    As a PS, I couldn’t resist checking a 700-comment thread on the US elections. I shouldn’t link, but I will. While there is plenty of not-so-innocent amusement to be had, what struck me was that most of the commenters appear to be creationists – the handful holding up the flag for evolution are getting hammered.

    Lying sack of shit.

  44. JC

    Harry again.

    Does he conveniently forget the times he’d go spastic here to the point of being moderated. Man what a chameleon he is.

    John please correct the reference to Economic Papers – this rubbish would not be published there because I edit that.

    Catallaxy is a blog based on deceit – crank theories on climate change, crank macroeconomics and cranky foul-mouthed commenters whose collective intelligence amounts to an individual fail.

    These losers are part of an IPA program to fill newspapers with idiotic op ads on all topics. They have no skills, exert no intelligence and have no shame. Throw them in the rubbish bin and reorient the debate away from them.

  45. JC

    Bib:

    You mentioned this Illinois senator having strange ideas.

    Dude, you think it could be an Illinois thing because the president of the US sat listening to sermons that the white man introduced AIDS to them blackfolk in the US of A.

    The Rev., who happened to marry him, was also peddling the evolutionary line that Jews descended from pigs.

    How does that stack up in you estimates?

  46. jtfsoon

    I take it that Harry and Sinkers rarely get together over a few beers at the local?

    In the immortal words of Rodney King ‘why can’t we all just get along?’

  47. Sinclair Davidson

    Actually the last I saw harry we were in the pub after he came to a seminar. I’ll have to remember the crank comment the next time he asks me to referee for his journal. 🙂

  48. JamesK

    Who’s Harry and is he also BilB the radical secularist nong?

  49. BilB

    I don’t follow your thinking,JC. Are you suggesting that Barak Obama is somehow tainted because the minister who performed his marriage service had some strange ideas, that Obama is guilty by association?

    Wow, that is a total stretch which I think you will care to retract when you have thought that through properly.

    Ah! wait, people keep putting this little gem up as fast as others tear it down

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yNZ1U37sE

    God Bless America.

    You have to feel sorry for Shimkus’ interns who try to become invisible by fading into the paneling behind Congressman Shimkus in this video.

  50. BilB

    So what did you guys think of President Obama’s recent state of the nation speech?

  51. Les Majesty

    You gotta love it when some fresh fish arrives at the Cat and the old timers give him a right softening up.

    Allow me to pile on:

    BIIB, you despicable leftist nazi scum

  52. Les Majesty

    He’s president Obama to you, dummy.

    To us, he’s the Grand Mufti Clandestino, B. Hussein Obama-Soetoro aka the Great Usurper, Chancellor of the Fourth Reich, the guru of Hitlerian Marxist Alinskyitism.

  53. .

    I must be using a different google to yours

    You must be a fucking idiot.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245636/Glacier-scientists-says-knew-data-verified.html

    The scientist behind the bogus claim in a Nobel Prize-winning UN report that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders.

    Eat shit, freak.

  54. Les Majesty

    He might be President of Chicago, but he’s never been the President of the constitutional United States of America.

  55. JC

    Wow, that is a total stretch which I think you will care to retract when you have thought that through properly.

    \

    I would retract it why exactly, Bib? No stupid you tube links, just in your own words why exactly I would retract anything about Odumbo hanging around a lunatic for 20 years spewing racial hate whereas I’m supposed to think worse of some idiot that thinks nothing will happen because the world already experienced Noah’s arc.

    Les, no need to soften them up. They’re already soft in the head as Bib ‘ably” demonstrates.

  56. JC

    So what did you guys think of President Obama’s recent state of the nation speech?

    I couldn’t listen to it. I had a bad attack of burps through it and didn’t hear it.

    What did he say Bib? Did he mention the Fast train network from Buffalo to Newark Airport like he did last time or some really boring shit like that … avoiding the fact that the asshat has a deficit of 10% of GDP to worry about.

  57. JC

    You have to feel sorry for Shimkus’ interns who try to become invisible by fading into the paneling behind Congressman Shimkus in this video.

    They may, but I reckon they would be counting their lucky stars as the Demolitionists Party members usually try and fuck or orally sodomize theirs as Clinton, Weiner (Weiner Lol) et al have shown.

  58. JC

    I take it that Harry and Sinkers rarely get together over a few beers at the local?

    In the immortal words of Rodney King ‘why can’t we all just get along?’

    Sinkers is a great guy to have a drink with. Always gregarious and amusing. By the sounds and looks of things, you’d probably want to leave the bar after Harry’s 2nd drink because it appears he can’t hold his grog without getting nasty.

    I’ve known a few fuckers like, seriously. They were like pets but after a drink they turn into veritable demons. One dude, I recall was a total arsehole, got really smartarsey with another bunch of blokes and got knocked out. He thoroughly deserved it and we left him there.

  59. .

    To us, he’s the Grand Mufti Clandestino, B. Hussein Obama-Soetoro aka the Great Usurper, Chancellor of the Fourth Reich, the guru of Hitlerian Marxist Alinskyitism

    The truth hidden in a ball of lies.

    This is so transparent Tillman. Fuck you are acting desperately.

    Worst President ever.

  60. Les Majesty

    One dude, I recall was a total arsehole, got really smartarsey with another bunch of blokes and got knocked out. He thoroughly deserved it and we left him there.

    Poor Graeme.

  61. John Comnenus

    Hey guys we are making a list of convicted Aust politicians to work out which is the most corrupt party in Australia. ALP winning the corruption stakes with a string lead. Can’t find any libs from state or fed level convicted since 2000 except for a lone Vic drink driver. Plenty of ALP pedophiles and crooks though. Check it out on the another gift from thentrade union party thread. Help add to the list guys.

  62. JC

    No, wasn’t him. It was in NYC. He embarrassed us. This was years ago. We were in a group with this idiot, a broker now less, was getting drunker and nastier with every shot or some crap he was downing and he then started to hound another bunch of guys and he finally got knocked out.

    The other dudes pointed to us thinking it was going to be on and one of the guys turned around and thanked them while he was lying there. It was the funniest thing I’ve seen for a while.

    Harry kind of reminds me of Bird in his anger switch tied in with the booze. I reckon if you can’t handle the crap, you shouldn’t be doing it.

  63. spot

    Quiggin:

    “what struck me was that most of the commenters appear to be creationists”

    Huhwut?

    Is there an alternate version of this comments thread floating around out there in the ether?

  64. .

    Like BilB, Quiggin must be “using another version of google”.

  65. Oh come on

    I posted a comment over at his blog pointing out the fact that he’s lying. He didn’t publish it.

  66. JC

    Dunno where JQ got that idea as the only doubter of vertical evolution was moi. However I suggested that I read about another plausible theory of a period when the earth was slammed by numerous comets and meteors that carried different lifeforms or settled differently causing the divergence. However doesn’t suggest creationism in the least.

  67. .

    I thought current theory was life evolved somewhat in parallel in water, in the air, in hot deep parts of the ocean and from extra terrestrial sources.

    How could anyone in their right mind view this as “creationist” except in the weaker, mainline church (i.e non fundamentalist) way?

  68. JC

    Les.. can I ask you a serious question here.

    Odumbo’s father was a Marxist. He mother was a Marxist. There was a story going around that his grandpa’s buddy may have molested him as a child and he happened to be an outirght commie. He grandparents were open commies.

    Odumbo met and befriended two far left wing lunatics, Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers who were far left socialists.

    After Odumbo completed his affirmative action studies he went to Chicago and functioned as a community organ grinder, which is exactly what Aliniski was.

    Odumbo was also closely involved with ACORN, an extreme right group.

    He hung around a ‘church’ for 20 years that followed a black Marxist religious ideology. The preacher, was an out and out rat bag far left lunatic.

    Let me ask you why you consider it implausible that Obumbo doesn’t harbor Marxist leanings?

  69. Oh come on

    I think I got lumped into the “creationist” camp, too, despite the fact I declared several times that I was agnostic on the issue.

    I guess that if you’re not an unqualified supporter in evolutionary theory, Quiggler thinks you’re a creationist. Very sophisticated analysis indeed. Up there with a Chris Shiel effort for sheer penetrative reasoning and intellectual depth.

    Whatever happened to CS, anyway? I remember that hilarious wank fantasy he wrote that went something like “he dived into the hot towels, clutching his treasure”

    bwhahahahaha hilarious. Here’s a link for Steve from Brisbane: I’m sure he’ll find it useful http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/onan_the_historian/

    And the quote “Holding tightly to his treasure, he buried himself under the warm towels”

    wasn’t too far off!

  70. Oh come on

    Sheil, not Shiel. Sorry CS

  71. .

    Odumbo was also closely involved with ACORN, an extreme right group.

    Sure you mean left.

    ACORN in action:

  72. wreckage

    Yobbo, all I’m saying is that harm is harm, religion or not. But there are grey areas where you can’t refuse people their conscience. A life-saving blood transfusion, refused for a child by their parents, is unequivocally harmful. A refused vaccination is a bit greyer; in my opinion their intuitive risk assessment is badly broken, but vaccines do have risks so I balk at making it categorically illegal to refuse them. Sometimes people’s gut instinct is right, even if I think they’re being stupid.

    However the argument at hand is whether refusing to buy an insurance policy that covers contraception or abortion is unequivocally harmful. I think it’s damned clear it is not, because EVEN IF we assume that contraceptives and abortions are generally good things, they are almost never life-saving, and never expensive.

    For example, it is legal to buy health insurance that doesn’t cover physiotherapy, or that doesn’t cover all dental care, or that doesn’t cover ambulance expenses. It is perfectly legitimate to exclude items from coverage.

    I do not agree that refusing to pay for someone else’s contraceptives is even slightly harmful, since at less than $1 per condom, contraceptives are cheaper than bottled water and it’s one of the rare instances where “alternative medicine” ie., not having sex if you can’t afford contraception this week, is 100% effective. No, I don’t advocate abstinence-only. No, I’m not Catholic. I love condoms; sometimes I buy them just to admire their ingenious design and manufacture.

    SfB sais brand-name pills cost upwards of $60 per week. Condoms are less than $1 a piece and are in health terms far superior, offering full or partial protection from many STDs, particularly the worst ones. So, there’s no health case for the pill, no pressing need to buy the most expensive pill, and the alternatives are cheap enough that the average person could cover their own expenses for a week by eating porridge instead of coco-pops.

  73. wreckage

    “what struck me was that most of the commenters appear to be creationists”

    Some of them cavorted with witches and heretics! No matter their views, nor their arguments, those that deign to associate with such filth must be rejected at every turn! PS: I’m not a fundamentalist; my intellectual purity is untainted!

  74. $60 a month, wreckage, not $60 per week.

    They aren’t expensive by most people’s standards; except for the poor, working or otherwise, who are the ones who have more unplanned pregnancies…

  75. wreckage

    Condoms cost less than $1 per sexual encounter and protect against a broad range of STDs, including AIDS, for which purpose the pill is useless. Not only are they vastly superior in terms of health benefits, their cost is so small as to be unworthy of discussion.

  76. Gab

    Groundhog Day, Steve. You invented it.

  77. JamesK

    Megadeth frontman Dave Mustaine endorses Rick Santorum:

    “Earlier in the election, I was completely oblivious as to who Rick Santorum was, but when the dude went home to be with his daughter when she was sick, that was very commendable. Also, just watching how he hasn’t gotten into doing these horrible, horrible attack ads like Mitt Romney’s done against Newt Gingrich, and then the volume at which Newt has gone back at Romney… You know, I think Santorum has some presidential qualities, and I’m hoping that if it does come down to it, we’ll see a Republican in the White House… and that it’s Rick Santorum.”

  78. Les Majesty

    Steve likes to hit it raw dog.

  79. wreckage

    I also suggest that pill coverage for the poor would be a very cost-effective charity.

    Perhaps a concerned Catholic, such as yourself, could start an not-for-profit with that very focus, thus achieving two goals: free Pill for poor women, regardless of employment status, and; the right of conscience for Catholics, whose views on contraception I categorically disagree with, but who are harming no-one and should be left in peace by any tolerant society.

  80. wreckage

    Steve likes to hit it raw dog.

    And wants the Catholic Church to be forced to pay for health insurance that covers his little quirk (that of preferring less effective preventative health-care in favour of the more expensive).

  81. JamesK

    The purported reasoning the WH uses to mask the truth of the mandate is womens’ health.

    Condoms protect women’s health whilst the pill is a threat to a woman’s health with higer risks of stroke, deep venous thrombosis, pulmonary embolus.

    So the mandate by cheapening the pill over condoms actually is a risk to a woman’s health.

    Leftists think pregnancy is a disease but condoms are better protection against preganancy than the pill and thus make the necessity of abortifacient pills (high risk medication and predictably nausea inducing) and instrumental abortion less likely as well.

  82. “A refused vaccination is a bit greyer”

    This is very grey because with some diseases you might cause others to get it when they are small babies who are not able to take the vaccine yet.

  83. Nice attempt at painting lipstick on a pig, as far as condoms are concerned.

    But try using some common sense for a change.

    Americans are still marrying younger than Australians, with a median female age of 26.

    Even allowing for time off contraception to have a few kids, and a divorce, it’s pretty clear that the majority of contraceptive use over the lifetime of a huge proportion of women is likely to be while they are in a relationship.

    I would bet anything you like that the typical pattern of contraceptive use is for people to use condoms just as much for their STD prevention as for contraception when they are first sleeping with a new partner. Once it becomes a permanent relationship with a high degree of trust – they just ain’t that popular for two reasons:

    1. They have a substantially higher failure rate than the pill or other methods.

    2. Men, apart from wreckage who seems to have a bit of a fetish for them:

    I love condoms; sometimes I buy them just to admire their ingenious design and manufacture.

    don’t like using them much. I don’t think women particularly like the interruption to the timing of the whole show that they involve either.

    Finally: it is clearly a dis-empowering thing to tell women that they have to permanently use a less reliable, essentially male controlled form of contraception than one they can control themselves.

  84. spot

    $60 a month, wreckage, not $60 per week.

    They aren’t expensive by most people’s standards; except for the poor, working or otherwise

    “The Poor” can get the pill free from Planned Parenthood and other free clinics, as has been explained to you umpten times, mate.

    And the $15/month generic version is 100% as efficacious as the $60/month “brand name” version.

    Even in Australia, home of “Free Cheese for All!”, if you want the brand-name version of a drug (ie Keflex(TM) rather than generic cephalexin or Zofran (TM) rather than generic ondansetron) you yourself are going to have to pay out of pocket for your preference for expensive brand names.

  85. However the argument at hand is whether refusing to buy an insurance policy that covers contraception or abortion is unequivocally harmful.

    No argument from me here. Forcing people to buy insurance is a ridiculous market distortion and I would never support it.

  86. JamesK

    Dreadful attempt by steve who thinks he sees an argument he can win.

    As usual it’s the strawman.

    The point was the WH’s pseudo argument is false.

    Childless single women break for the Dems.

    In general the infantilised pop break for the Dems.

  87. BilB

    So Yobbo, you think that it is wrong that people need (are forced) to have third party personal insurance before setting out to drive on our roads (Aust)? Meaning that if some broke drunk hits you on a pedestrian crossing and leaves you a paraplaegic unable to work and support you wife and three kids, then that is how you believe things should be?

  88. JamesK

    WSJ Op-Ed: Meet the ObamaCare Mandate Committee
    Think the contraception decision was bad? Wait until bureaucrats start telling your insurer which cancer screenings to cover.

    “Offended by President Obama’s decision to force health insurers to pay for contraception and surgical sterilization? It gets worse: In the future, thanks to ObamaCare, the government will issue such health edicts on a routine basis—and largely insulated from public view. This goes beyond contraception to cancer screenings, the use of common drugs like aspirin, and much more.

    Under ObamaCare, a single committee—the United States Preventative Services Task Force—is empowered to evaluate preventive health services and decide which will be covered by health-insurance plans.”

  89. .

    You could achieve the same outcome without punishing good drivers if the road user charges were hypothecated for road and related use only such as insurance, made welfare more strict (who exactly are drunk penniless drivers going to be?) and had tougher gaol sentences. Perhaps better locations of pedestrian crossings would help. The simple solution is to make it a condition of driving on the road, but up to the road user, but as a (virtual) legally enforced monopolist the Government gets stamp duty on the insurance, GST and makes you pay the road user levy which isn’t earmarked at all.

    The problem isn’t that it exists, but it is simply part of treating road users as sources of revenue. The insurance is only available to the six largest insurers in NSW. It is corporate welfare at the moment.

  90. wreckage

    Nice attempt at painting lipstick on a pig, as far as condoms are concerned.

    You have exhausted my patience.

  91. wreckage

    Finally: it is clearly a dis-empowering thing

    Yes, yes. Making people feel dis-empowered by not buying things they don’t need for them should be illegal.

    Your argument is airtight.

    Next up on disempowering women: laws restricting concealed carry should be abolished.

  92. You have exhausted my patience.

    Or maybe: you don’t have a good come back to my point that few married couples find long term condom use acceptable. Since I wrote that last night, I spotted an estimate from an American study that they are used by about 4% of married couples.

  93. As for getting the pill from Planned Parenthood: I don’t know much about how that works. I would guess, however, that if you are working and get them for free via a visit to the local doctor, it’s likely to be more convenient than driving across town to a (possibly poor) neighbourhood to the nearest free clinic.

  94. JamesK

    steve the conservative catholic troll from Brisbane studies medical epidemiological journals in the wee small hours.

    What a hero.

  95. Steve, are you even an American citizen?

    Why are you so concerned about American women’s “right” to “free” birth control & abortion pills anyway?

    AFAIK, they’re not “free” in Australia on the PBS either. Shouldn’t you be agitating for your own countrywomen to be granted this “basic human right”?

  96. As for JamesK: go talk to the Institute of Medicine which is the body which made the recommendation to mandate contraception as a sensible measure for health care overall.

    Or the the 28 States that have already mandated it, some with very few exceptions.

    The mandate is now effectively on insurance companies, not the Church institution or other Catholic employer who has a problem with it.

  97. JamesK

    Go talk to the Institute of Medicine….muhahhahha.

    Be serious for once in your life steve.

    Who do you think populated the white coats in the Rose Garden championing Odumbocare?

    FACT Mag: 1,189 PSYCHIATRISTS SAY GOLD WATER IS PSYCHOLOGICALLY UNFIT TO BE PRESIDENT!

    Leftist infestation destroys the integrity of everything they get control of whether climate science, universities, education, treasury, everything.

    Leftists are dishonest activists and leftism trumps everything.

    So for a leftist scientist, it trumps science, for a black equal rights it trumps his own race, for ferminists it trumps womens’ rights, for leftist catholics like Nancy Pelosi it trumps catholicism., etc after nausea indicing etc.

    Now fvck off steve. Tend to ur chores.

  98. JamesK

    The Pro-Abortion Committee Behind the HHS Contraception Mandate

    “Through a search of public records, HLI America has been able to substantiate the claim that members of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) committee who wrote Recommendation 5.5 have ideological commitments that raise serious questions about the supposed objectivity with which they considered the scientific evidence that led to their recommendation that the HHS mandate contraception and sterilization coverage as “preventive care.” The IOM members below have strong relationships with both Planned Parenthood and NARAL, and have actively supported pro-abortion candidates for public office. The following is a summary of some of the committee members’ political involvement:

    Claire Brindis is a member of the Board of Directors of the NARAL Pro-Choice America Foundation, as well as a member of NARAL’s Pro-Choice California “1969 Society,” which has been called by NARAL “a group of our most steadfast and generous donors.”

    Angela Diaz is a former board member of “Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health,” an advocacy group that “work[s] to improve access to comprehensive reproductive health care, including contraception and abortion.” Until just a few weeks ago she served as the senior vice president of the International Women’s Health Coalition and was on the board of directors from 2007-2010. Her biography on the IWHC’s website (which was recently removed) stated that she “has a deep and long commitment to IWHC’s mission and to the organization.” The IWHC is a pro-choice advocacy group that declares that “access to safe abortion is a human right” and that abortion and contraception are “universal and inalienable” rights.

    Francisco Garcia has donated between $11,750 and $13,000 to candidates that support abortion since 2004. These pro-choice candidates include Raul Grijava and Barack Obama.

    Kimberly Gregory, as indicated by public records, has donated $35,200 to the California Victory 2010 of the Democratic National Committee in support of Barbara Boxer.

    Paula A. Johnson is the Chairwoman of Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts and is affiliated with the pro-abortion National Organization of Women (NOW). This year she will be the winner of NARAL’s 2011 “Champion for Choice” award. Public records indicate that since 2003 she has given between $9,550 and $11,000 each to the political campaigns of Pro-Choice candidates including Martha Coakley, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton. She also has made contributions to Emily’s List, an organization dedicated to “electing pro-choice Democratic women.”

    Roberta Ness has donated at least $2,500 to pro-abortion candidate John Kerry and to the Democratic National Committee.

    Magda G. Peck is associated with a host of organizations that advocate for abortion and free access to contraception, and was on the board of directors of Planned Parenthood of Nebraska and Council Bluffs and served as both vice chair and chair of the board.

    E. Albert Reece donated $1000 in 2010 to the campaign of pro-abortion politician Barbara Mikulski, the sponsor of the amendment that paved the way for recommendation 5.5.

    Linda Rosenstock, committee chairwoman, has since October 2004 donated over $40,000 to pro-choice political candidates including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, and the Democratic National Committee.

    Alina Salganicoff is the Vice President and Director of Women’s Health Policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation, a major proponent of abortion and contraception on demand. She donated $950 to the Barack Obama and Judy Feder campaigns in 2008.

    Carol Weisman has made $4,500 in political donations to pro-abortion candidates including Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Kerry and Judy Feder since 2000.

    This is by no means an exhaustive list of the involvement of the IOM committee members in pro-choice advocacy groups and pro-choice political campaigns. But these eleven members—out of a total of fifteen—demonstrate a more than casual commitment to the furthering of the abortion lobby. According to public record, not a single member of the committe has financially supported a pro-life candidate.”

    No shit Sherlock

  99. ~Steve’s busy penning his demand to Nanny Roxon that Mrs Steve receive free birth control and abortion pills~

  100. dover_beach

    This is by no means an exhaustive list of the involvement of the IOM committee members in pro-choice advocacy groups and pro-choice political campaigns. But these eleven members—out of a total of fifteen

    But, but, the decision was entirely medical!

    More seriously, reading that list confirms that many of these institutions, like the Institute of Medicine, do nothing more conceal the fact that many of these decisions are political.

  101. Les Majesty

    So Yobbo, you think that it is wrong that people need (are forced) to have third party personal insurance before setting out to drive on our roads (Aust)? Meaning that if some broke drunk hits you on a pedestrian crossing and leaves you a paraplaegic unable to work and support you wife and three kids, then that is how you believe things should be?

    Don’t try that Hitlerian jive on with us, you lying Marxist git.

    If you are trying to get your arse moderated, you are going about it the right way, champ.

  102. What a farce, JamesK: committee members who have donated relatively small amounts to Democrat candidates are all deemed to be too “pro choice” to make insurance recommendations. (Which, by the way, do not include mandating that abortion be part of the cover.)

    Maybe if Republicans made more of a name for themselves in promoting women’s health initiatives instead of working out how best to reduce taxes for the rich, they might get some support from doctors and the like who work in women’s health policy.

    And to anticipate your complaint that contraception is included abortion drugs:

    * the “normal” morning after pill is understood to primarily work by preventing ovulation;

    * the new “Ella”, which can work up to 5 or 7 days later may also work by preventing ovulation, but presumably must be interfering otherwise in some cases.

    * I am told by a doctor friend that the only IUD used in Australia now is Mirena, it also works by preventing ovulation by releasing hormone. I do not know what IUDs are common in the US, but other ones can work by interfering with sperm’s ability to reach the egg.

    * despite pro-lifers having complained that the contraceptive pill might sometimes interfere with implantation, no one not associated with right to life causes seems to believe it.

    * RU 486: the drug that is clearly designed and used as a “chemical abortion” is not covered by the contraception mandate.

    In short: for most methods of contraception, they work by preventing fertilisation in the first place.

    The main one which one would have doubts about the primary way it works is probably Ella – but there is no way that is going to be used as a regular form of contraception.

    Personally, I think that removing Ella from the list of contraception covered might allay some Catholic fears; but the problem is that the Right to Lifers are so dogmatic (insisting that even the Pill can sometimes interfere with implantation) they are likely to say they are still not satisfied.

  103. Gab

    Steve. the wannabe gynaecologist.

  104. .

    Don’t try that Hitlerian jive on with us, you lying Marxist git.

    If you are trying to get your arse moderated, you are going about it the right way, champ.

    My response jammed that right up Tillman so stop this horseshit that there is no argument against it.

  105. Les Majesty

    Steve, wouldn’t employer mandated wooden penis gourds solve the problem?

  106. Gab

    You at least are right on that point, Steve.

  107. Bilb, the kind of situation you are talking about could just as easily be dealt with through criminal compensation – And in fact already is for cases where a car is not involved (e.g. if instead of hitting you with a car, I hit you with a cricket bat)

    The problem with forcing people to buy insurance is that it means that insurance companies can basically charge whatever they like.

  108. Les Majesty

    We’ll find out Steve’s identity when we read in the papers about a guy in Brisbane arrested for tax fraud and unlicensed amateur gynecology who has his walls covered with pictures of Tony in his speedos.

  109. For a lot of people insurance isn’t worth it at all. For example a healthy 25 year old does not need health insurance. He is better off self-insuring and paying out of his own pocket in the extremely unlikely event that he needs medical care.

    By forcing him to take up insurance (or more accurately forcing his employer to take it up on his behalf as in the case in the US), you allow insurance companies to overcharge to a very large degree.

  110. .

    Yobbo is right. In NSW the MCIS levies goes straight to the Government so BilB’s question is just stupid. Basically you are insuring yourself for other damages. But as I said the big six get corporate welfare for this, more or less. You also must pay stamp duty and GST on this as well as having to pay registration, stamp duty on that purchase stamp duty and two lots of fuel excise, subject to GST.

    It’s just a rort for Government and big insurance.

  111. .

    Another rort is the rental bond board.

    In got 39 cents interest for a bond of $1280 for living in a place for 22 months.

    How the FUCK does that protect me? Can’t I just pay insurance against myself or have the cash held in escrow in a Federally insured ADI?

  112. BilB

    Think it through, Yobbo. You cannot get money out of people who have none. So if the guy who shatters your spine has no money, then no amount of litigation is going to pay for your medical bills and the replacement of your income on which your family depends.

    Case studies.

    A friend from the past had his sports car written off by a mid twenties unemployed guy who had no license and had “borrowed” the other car from his flat mate. The guy was drunk at 8am.

    Total loss for the friend and tough luck for him.

    Case study 2

    In more recent years a highly energetic business friend who went for a lunch time training ride slammed into the side of a car that came racing out of a blind private driveway. That guy is now a C5 quadraplegic. The total value of the assets of the person who caused the accident would not even start to cover the cost of his (the friend) recovery and ongoing life support.

    Much and all as I hate paying third party personal insurance with the registration of my vehicles, there is no way in hell that i would ever argue for the removal of the system. Improve it maybe, but remove the compulsory insurance? No way.

  113. .

    A friend from the past had his sports car written off by a mid twenties unemployed guy who had no license and had “borrowed” the other car from his flat mate. The guy was drunk at 8am.

    You also reckoned you drove from the Blue Mtns to Sydney airport for work on the Thoughts on Freedom forum as an argument against tolls.

    You’re full of shit pal.

  114. .

    A friend from the past had his sports car written off by a mid twenties unemployed guy who had no license and had “borrowed” the other car from his flat mate. The guy was drunk at 8am.

    Total loss for the friend and tough luck for him.

    Why didn’t your imaginary deadshit millionaire friend have his own comprehensive insurance?

  115. .

    In more recent years a highly energetic business friend who went for a lunch time training ride slammed into the side of a car that came racing out of a blind private driveway. That guy is now a C5 quadraplegic. The total value of the assets of the person who caused the accident would not even start to cover the cost of his (the friend) recovery and ongoing life support.

    Your other imaginary friend hit the car. Did this corporate high flyer have death and disablement or income protection insurance?

  116. dover_beach

    Why didn’t your imaginary deadshit millionaire friend have his own comprehensive insurance?

    Your other imaginary friend hit the car. Did this corporate high flyer have death and disablement or income protection insurance?

    Very good questions, dot.

  117. .

    Your other imaginary friend hit the car. Did this corporate high flyer have death and disablement or income protection insurance?

    Furthermore did he pay the driver for the damage to his car that he caused? Or was this in imaginationland again?

  118. Infidel Tiger

    I find it incredulous that BilB had two friends. That they both ended up having terrible accidents is spooky beyond belief.

  119. Rick Santorum’s backer helps promote hip, with-it, image of Rick:

    The chief backer of Rick Santorum’s super PAC stunned MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell — and much of the Twitterverse as well — with an old-timey joke about what women should use for birth control.

    “Back in my days they’d use Bayer aspirin for contraceptions,” said millionaire conservative Foster Friess. “The gals put it between their knees and it wasn’t that costly.”

  120. BilB

    You guys are very articulate, and such caring and sharing types. Particularly Dash Dot, the pronunciation for which I prefer Victor Borge’s rendition.

    No Corporate high flyer millionaire, Dover_Beach, just a regular small business owner, but very energetic just the same (was). His ongoing life support, care and income replacement costs $750,000 per year.

    While the friend was in the spinal unit there was another guy who had been backpacking in Africa. This guy fell backwards off a bar stool somewhere in the Congo and broke his neck. His life would have ended there had he not, on a whim, taken out American Express Travel Insurance at New York airport. So it cost $2 million to charter aircraft to airlift that guy back to Australia. That guy’s ongoing costs amount to $1.5 million dollars per year.

    That is the problem with risk and protection, it is impossible to predict.

  121. dover_beach

    And that is why we have income, health and travel insurance. Where is the justification for no- fault, third-party insurance?

  122. Adrien

    #

    JC and dot dash, great critique technique. Very enlightening. Deep.

    Oh fuck of Marxist creep.

    Catallaxy is a blog based on deceit – crank theories on climate change, crank macroeconomics and cranky foul-mouthed commenters

    🙂

  123. Adrien

    His life would have ended there had he not, on a whim, taken out American Express Travel Insurance at New York airport.

    Sounds to me like a preferable situation to the one that manifested. Modern people are, in the face of the fact of death, chickenshit.

  124. BilB

    The problem with being wise and careful, Infidel Tiger, is that eventually everyone around winds up being dead. The High School reunion group becomes an smaller select few, with not a single Libertarian (all of whom ran into one unanticipated problem or another mid life) amoungst them.

  125. .

    You guys are very articulate, and such caring and sharing types. Particularly Dash Dot, the pronunciation for which I prefer Victor Borge’s rendition.

    You’re an inveterate liar.

    That guy’s ongoing costs amount to $1.5 million dollars per year.

    No, it isn’t.

    That is the problem with risk and protection, it is impossible to predict.

    Except for you.

    Did your friend pay the damages he owes? Why didn’t your other imaginary friend have comprehensive insurance?

    His life would have ended there had he not, on a whim, taken out American Express Travel Insurance at New York airport. So it cost $2 million to charter aircraft to airlift that guy back to Australia. That guy’s ongoing costs amount to $1.5 million dollars per year.

    So for $55 he gets an annuity and initial payment equal to a net present value of $23.4 million?

    Fuck me dead you’re an insurance guru. Well hey they just have to make sure they only ever pay out on one in 425 500 policies taken and it’s solvent.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    You are so full of crap it is beyond parody.

  126. Gab

    eventually everyone around winds up being dead

    Yep. From the day you’re born, you’re heading towards death.

  127. Yep. From the day you’re born, you’re heading towards death.

    “I don’t deserve to die. I was building a house!”

    “Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.”

    BANG.

  128. Gab

    Panel Behind ObamaCare Abortifacient Mandate Dominated by Abortion Advocates and Democratic donors.

  129. jtfsoon

    jesus, BilB, you’ve got some bad voddoo around you. Remind me not to be your friend. I don’t want to be cripppled (alternatively you could just be making all this up)

  130. Les Majesty

    BilBo Bagwash is a fucking communist stooge.

    Ignore his Hitlerian troll bait about no-fault insurance.

  131. Les Majesty

    Meanwhile, happy days are here again.

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/how-the-gop-went-back-to-the-1950s-in-just-one-day.php?m=1

    I think this is a genius strategy from the GOP. One that all liner yards can get behind.

  132. Les Majesty

    Not liner yards – LIBERTARDS

    Damn you, autocorrect!

  133. C.L.

    Rick Santorum’s backer helps promote hip, with-it, image of Rick.

    What he really needs is a backer who’s a former Nazi collaborater.

    There’s nothing more hip than that.

    Interestingly, the Nazis had the same kind of abortion and contraception policy as Obama.

  134. Infidel Tiger

    If Santorum didn’t exist, Obama would have had to invent him.

  135. .

    BilBo Bagwash is a fucking communist stooge.

    Ignore his Hitlerian troll bait about no-fault insurance.

    It’s far more fun to rip him to shreds. Plus his no fault claptrap has been discussed.

  136. Les Majesty

    Hitler mandated no fault insurance for anyone who drove a Volkswagen (or “nazi sled” as I call them) on zee autobahnen.

    Coincidence? Doubtful.

  137. I figure that Catallaxian distrust of something as sensible as compulsory third party car insurance makes them a good market for lucky charms. Since I’ve taken to wearing a Roman phallic amulet, I’ve been able to cut my insurance premiums in half.

  138. Gab

    Since I’ve taken to wearing a Roman phallic amulet,

    around your neck?

    Very apt, Steve.

  139. Les Majesty

    Here are some Nazis invading Russia with a pocket full of frangers and a no fault policy in the glove box of the Panzer.

    http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/TIGER-1%20PICS/Tiger_DR_Zihtomir-02.jpg

    BilBo Bagwash finds this image heartwarming, because he’s a Nazi.

  140. Jc

    Fuck me. Please get off the site. We all want to live.

    And the way

    So it cost $2 million to charter aircraft to airlift that guy back to Australia.

    Bullshit.

    Even a global express would cost multiples less than that.

  141. .

    Steve, it has been discussed why it isn’t sensible as you think and is at least in need of reform:

    *People drive without it anyway, so you ought to get personal cover anyway for yourself and anyone in your car.

    *It is at present corporate welfare with legislated anticompetitive practices

    *It may be a fine principle to allow road owners to set rules, but ‘we’, vested in the Crown, are the owners. ‘We’ also impose monopsonistic pricing on ourselves.

    *It is a tax sinkhole to boot – totally unaccountable, non earmarked and doubly taxed in a series of unfair and inefficient taxes and double taxation.

    *It provides no incentive to the state to minimise road accident damage to persons such as safer design of pedestrian crossings, lighting or dual carriageways.

    *The fee is taken apart into separate functions, including MCIS levies – so it is basically like a victims of crime payment anyway.

    *Road negligence rules are actually lax, as per the lack of incentives to prevent personal injury damages.

    *Those likely to cause uncovered catastrophic damages are subsidised to drink and drive through welfare.

  142. C.L.

    The Democrats’ and Nazis’ policies (if not, praxis) on abortion, the disabled and contraception are indistinguishable.

    That shouldn’t be surprising given Planned Parentood’s white supremacist origins or the views of Marie Stopes International’s Nazi foundress.

    The Democrats also shared Hitler’s view of blacks.

    They had the KKK, he the SS.

  143. Les might like this World War One poster at the Wikipedia post on the history of condoms.

    Surgeon Sage: I like that.

  144. Gab

    Oh? So your good chum Les has a condom obsession too?

  145. Infidel Tiger

    Steve, with your personality you don’t need to concern yourself with contraception.

  146. You’re week isn’t complete unless you’ve found at least 3 ways to slip “praxis” into a comment, is it CL?

    Can’t you swap to another never used intellectual wank word and give us a break for a month?

  147. .

    The High School reunion group becomes an smaller select few, with not a single Libertarian (all of whom ran into one unanticipated problem or another mid life) amoungst them

    Really BilB? All of your socialist mates end up dying by their own fault and demand to sue the third party victims of their negligence.

    Somehow you think this is an argument for CTP.

  148. wreckage

    SfB, I have answered all your points, most of them several times. I’m done typing now. It’s nothing personal, it’s just I get bored of winning after a while.

  149. You’re “winning” in the CL-ian, Charlie Sheen sense only.

  150. C.L.

    In view of the large families of the Slav native population, it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible… We must use every means to instill in the population the idea that it is harmful to have several children, the expenses that they cause and the dangerous effect on woman’s health… It will be necessary to open special institutions for abortions and doctors must be able to help out there in case there is any question of this being a breach of their professional ethics.

    Barack Obama Adolf Hitler

  151. Infidel Tiger

    Steve, you’ve been flogged harder than a donkey in a Tijuna sex show.

    All you have left is our pity.

  152. C.L.

    The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.

    Before eugenicists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed, they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control, the eugenicists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit. Both are seeking a single end but they lay emphasis upon different methods.

    – Democrat Party icon and Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger

  153. C.L.

    Dear Herr Hitler, Love is the greatest thing in the world: so will you accept from me these (poems) that you may allow the young people of your nation to have them?

    – Letter from Democrat Party icon and Nazi, Marie Stopes, to Adolf Hitler, August 1939.

  154. BilB

    And, of course, the country with the very best integrated no fault accident insurance system is New Zealand.

    I think that Quiggin was right again. This thread will make it to 700 comments.

  155. Jc

    Jeesh

    She was writing love poems to hitler . How sweet.

    No biggie the current prez used to hang with a terrorist

  156. Strange, Planned Parenthood seems to have missed the eugenics message:

    Between 2000 and 2008, abortions among American women aged 15 to 44 fell 8%, reaching a low of 19.6 abortions per 1,000 women. The decline applied to most groups: notably, the abortion rate declined 18% among African American women over that time period and 22% among teens aged 15 to 17.

    Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/25/study-u-s-abortion-rate-drops-except-among-poorest-women/#ixzz1mbjQ8lpe

  157. .

    And, of course, the country with the very best integrated no fault accident insurance system is New Zealand.

    I think that Quiggin was right again. This thread will make it to 700 comments.

    Quiggin doesn’t like any polite criticism so we pile on here with nastier stuff.

    NZ is rooly good is it BilB?

    Does everyone “smart” like you drive 100 km to work every day?

    Can you get travel insurance for eleventy billion dollars?

    Do all the libertarians die before they turn 40?

    All are religious people mistrusted?

    Can negligent cyclists sue car drivers for the damages they themselves cause?

    Does it cost $4 million a year to look after an invalid?

    You’re a joke, pal.

  158. C.L.

    The data does show that abortion is more prevalent in the African-American community than among other groups. While black women make up about 13 percent of the U.S. female population, they account for 30 percent of abortions performed in the U.S. That according to the Guttmacher Institute. That’s a nonpartisan research group that tracks information about reproductive health issues. Though several of these racially targeted anti-abortion campaigns are supported or led by African-Americans, they’ve also outraged many people, both African-American and not.

    Planned Parenthood loyally continues the tradition of its founder: eliminating as many blacks as possible.

    The party of the Ku Klux Klan – the Democrats – encourage them in their work.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/07/18/138473348/debate-boils-over-african-americans-abortions

  159. C.L.

    So abortion supporters are now clearly involved in racial hygiene. ‘Imperfect’ babies are routinely killed and in the US, abortion disproportionately slaughters blacks, Latinos and Native Indians. Planned Parenthood – founded by KKK supporter Margaret Sanger – deliberately targets minority neighborhoods. Also, abortion everywhere kills more females than males – which means that abortion supporters not only hate the disabled and the non-white but also females. Abortion will, I think, be illegal in the not too distant future.

  160. m0nty

    You guys are very articulate, and such caring and sharing types. Particularly Dash Dot, the pronunciation for which I prefer Victor Borge’s rendition.

    LOL!

  161. Low income has nothing to do with it, hey CL?

    No, it’s more likely all the Planned Parenthood bureaucrats who close the door to the office each morning before pulling open the curtain that hides the Hitler photo on the wall, and giving the Nazi salute.

  162. .

    monty,

    This guy actually reckons that you can pay out $55 and get an insurance payout with a NPV of around $24 million.

    Don’t take sides too eagerly, this bloke is a braindead dropkick. I’m not using “hyperbowl” either.

  163. Abortion will, I think, be illegal in the not too distant future.

    Yes. That must explain the result of the survey in Australia in 2010 which found:

    The nationally representative poll of Australians over 18 years found 61 per cent said abortion should be lawful without question for a woman in her first trimester of pregnancy, while 26 per cent said it should be lawful depending on the reason.

    In the second trimester (12 to 24 weeks), support for outright lawful abortion was 12 per cent while 57 per cent said it depended on circumstances, such as whether her mental or physical health was at risk or there was deformity or impairment in the developing child.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-early-abortion-to-be-lawful-poll-20100704-zvtt.html#ixzz1mbreIVfr

    CL, you and your ilk seem not to have noticed, but women are just walking past you while you stand on the blogospheric street corner telling them not to use contraception, make sure their husband always finish inside, and have any baby that results.

    If you want abortion to be reduced, you need to be realistic about human nature and contraception.

  164. C.L.

    Low income has nothing to do with it, hey CL?

    So you admit that Planned Parenthood targets poor blacks.

    Thanks.

  165. C.L.

    CL, you and your ilk [Catholics] seem not to have noticed, but women are just walking past you while you stand on the blogospheric street corner telling them not to use contraception…

    I’ve never told women what to do, contraception-wise.

    Abortion fanatic and child murder advocate Barack Obama is telling women and men what to do with their companies and their money.

    He is intruding into the bedrooms of America like no president ever has before. Not since Bill Clinton last raped somebody, anyway.

    Nice try with the Obama talking point, though Steve.

    …make sure their husband always finish inside…

    LOL. Feminist Steve returns to his favourite cause – the right of men to ejaculate anywhere but a vagina.

    …and have any baby that results…

    Note here that Steve the devout ‘Catholic’ foe of abortion is suggesting (like Margaret Sanger) that some babies should be exterminated.

    Of course they should have any baby that ‘results.’

  166. Way to avoid the key point – your suggestion that abortion will “be illegal in the not too distant future” is so plainly not supported by polling – here or in the US – it is evidence you live in a dream world.

    The Obama mandate leaves it entirely up to women whether they take advantage of the contraception or not.

    The Catholic Bishops, by being against increased availability via insurance if the boss happens to be a Catholic, is, of course, the one seeking true interference with what can take place in the bedroom.

    Your spin is laughable.

  167. Infidel Tiger

    Way to avoid the key point – your suggestion that abortion will “be illegal in the not too distant future”

    If all preganant mothers were made to look at a scan of their unborn baby before aborting it, I’d say we’d see a dramatic decrease in abortion. You’d have to be an ice cold mofo to abort a baby after that.

  168. C.L.

    Child murder supporter Barack Obama and the Democrats also believed the late term abortion and live birth abortion bills would (and should) fail.

    They are now law.

    Support for abortion – for women’s right to ‘choose’ – has been plummeting for years. Almost every US pollster has found that majorities now oppose abortion outright or oppose it in most situations. Added to this – and, to some extent, driving it – is science. The science of ultra-sound, the science of premmy medicine, the science of genetics (and all it tells us about who we are as persons, in utero and ab initio) . The old ‘abortion on demand’ slogan of feminists has been abandoned. The old ‘just a clump of cells’ line has been discreetly binned. On science, the pro-abortion lobby has lost. On morality – in the public’s eyes – they have lost.

    It’s very likely that abortion will evnetually become ilegal again.

    But thanks for again confirming that you’re an abortion fanatic.

    —————————-

    The Catholic Church has no say in whether women use contraception. It teaches, they decide. They decide, they pay. There is no access or availability ‘crisis’ regarding contraception – except the one invented by busybody bedroom snooper Barack Obama.

  169. Yobbo

    A scan of most abortions would show nothing of note Infidel since the vast majority of abortions occur in the first trimester.

    looks a bit like a jellyfish, or nothing in particular

  170. Yobbo

    CL you keep saying that science agrees life begins at conception, and that’s true, it does. But not all organisms have a right to life. If they did then penicillin and eating would be illegal.

    The question is when a fetus becomes a human being, and therefore acquires the right to life. And that’s a question to which there are many equally valid scientific answers.

  171. It’s very likely that abortion will evnetually become ilegal again.

    You live in a fantasy world.

  172. Infidel Tiger

    A scan of most abortions would show nothing of note Infidel since the vast majority of abortions occur in the first trimester.

    looks a bit like a jellyfish, or nothing in particular

    When was the last time you and your girlfriend/wife/life partner were in an obstetrcians office looking at an ultra sound of your baby?

    I’d wager it was the twelth of never.

    The latest 3D scans are incredibly clear.

  173. At what week was the first scan done, IT? That’s the key point.

  174. Yobbo

    It can be as clear as a digital TV IT, it’s still going to show a mess of goo, since that’s what a fetus looks like in the early stages of a pregnancy.

  175. Yobbo

    http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-6-weeks

    doesn’t really matter how clear the image is IT, it still doesn’t look like anything remotely human. More like a peanut.

  176. Yobbo

    IT regardless of how clear the scan is, you aren’t going to see anything remotely resembling a human on a first trimester scan. You might see something that resembles a peanut or a kidney, but that’s it.

  177. Infidel Tiger

    At what week was the first scan done, IT? That’s the key point.

    Most scans wouldn’t be until the 6th week at the very earliest.

    I’m not sure it is the key point though. If you believe in the right to abortion I’m not sure these abitrary dates of when it suddenly becomes unacceptable make any sense. What’s the difference between 12 weeks and 40 weeks for a termination? It’s just a much bigger clump of cells they have to cut up and vacuum out of you.

  178. Yobbo

    And I should reiterate that over 90% of all abortions occur in the first 11 weeks of pregnancy.

  179. Infidel Tiger

    Yobbo, they barely resemble humans when they are born. Looking at a scan does make it seem a damn sight more real. It would make the decision to terminate a lot more challenging than just an aspirin for a headache.

  180. .

    Leave it up to a common law rule.

    If there can be a live birth, no abortion.

    I don’t like abortion but I’m realistic about the ins and outs of them happening and legalities. (Like people getting stoned until they miscarry, being pushed down stairs, etc). I also have neither a womb or a vagina. Having seen what an abortion can look like it didn’t shake my policy views but it did change my personal view.

    The idea of setting out to offer as many abortions as possible (planned parenthood) is a bit fucked up in my mind.

  181. Yobbo

    Again I think you are overestimating the emotional impact of a first trimester scan. A 2nd trimester scan, sure. It looks like a baby. But that wouldn’t prevent any abortions since they would have been performed months ago.

    What’s the difference between 12 weeks and 40 weeks for a termination? It’s just a much bigger clump of cells they have to cut up and vacuum out of you.

    That’s just no true. For one thing, a 24-week old fetus can feel pain, respond to stimuli and has measurable brain activity. a 10 week fetus is basically a lump of cells.

  182. IT: It was a key point to the point you were making, you twit: that scans would result in a lot less abortions.

    There is a fair chance that someone has researched how much this has affected abortion rates in those US states where it is required. I’ll look later.

  183. Yobbo

    My personal view is that Abortion should be legal up until about 16-18 weeks. After that point you really are killing a human being.

  184. C.L.

    The question is when a fetus becomes a human being.

    Well, that’s easy.

    At conception.

    Or are you saying it could be a giraffe until we wait and see?

    You live in a fantasy world.

    That’s what Democrats said about slavery in the nineteenth century and desegregation in the twentieth.

  185. Infidel Tiger

    The year is 2012, I can procure an abortion but not smoke in a pub.

    Fuck me.

  186. jtfsoon

    whether you can smoke in a pub should depend on the pub. dont take that for granted

  187. Yobbo

    Or are you saying it could be a giraffe until we wait and see?

    Containing human DNA and being a person are not the same thing CL. There are many cases of people who were born with a conjoined twin fetus forming part of their anatomy. The condition is called “fetus in fetu”.

    The extra parts have human DNA, and grow and draw blood/oxyen like your regular body. But they do not constitute a person. They have no conciousness or sense of self. They are routinely excised and disposed of in surgery.

  188. Yobbo is exaggerating somewhat (a 10 week fetus looks like this).

    Still, I have no problem with the proposition that even if one is against all abortion, it is still reasonable to want any that are done legally be completed as early as possible, for the reasons Yobbo said.

  189. jtfsoon

    what do you define as human DNA?

    Downs Syndrome sufferers have an extra chromosome. Are they human or should we be free to terminate them without repercussions even when they’re out of the womb?

  190. Yobbo

    Are you talking to me Jason?

    As I said whether or not something contains human DNA is not the question. It’s whether that something is a person or not. And downs syndrome sufferers certainly are.

  191. Where do you think the extra chromosome came from, Jason? A passing monkey that gave the mother a fright?

  192. jtfsoon

    #

    Are you talking to me Jason?

    As I said whether or not something contains human DNA is not the question

    I was making the same point in an indirect way. This ‘containing human DNA’ criteria is ill defined, and is neither sufficient nor necessary. I suppose CL would say that yes, Downs Syndrome people also have a right to life but if so we are now down to saying you can have human DNA even if you don’t have 46 chromosomes.

  193. Les Majesty

    Where do you think the extra chromosome came from, Jason

    Perhaps the mother read this thread while pregnant.

  194. Les Majesty

    The year is 2012, I can procure an abortion but not smoke in a pub.
    Fuck me.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall of the Tige’s gp’s office when he rocks up, sucking on a durry, and demands an abortion.

  195. An interesting run down here of how religious attitudes to abortion have swung around over the centuries.

  196. Les Majesty

    Steve, I hope that survey is more reliable that your tales of how ye olde Romans would trade blow jobs for sacks of potatoes.

  197. Infidel Tiger

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall of the Tige’s gp’s office when he rocks up, sucking on a durry, and demands an abortion.

    The irony is that the doc would demand I put out the smoke and then happily abort the baby.

  198. Les, I worry more about the Scottish now. The Economist noted recently:

    The upper-middle-class members of the Beggar’s Benison club in Scotland, founded in 1732, apparently thought nothing of arranging meetings where they could drink, sing and fondle naked women. Such evenings were brought to a fitting climax, as it were, when they would communally ejaculate into a ceremonial pewter platter.

    I believe Catallaxy drinks nights are not dissimilar.

  199. Oh come on

    Ugh. Steve from Brisbane makes my skin crawl. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if one day his back yard was crowded full of cops with shovels and forensic experts in white overalls carting out clear plastic evidence bags full of body parts.

  200. Infidel Tiger

    Steve, your google cache must be a bio-hazard.

  201. .

    I find the idea that you whack off to images of me whacking off totally revolting.

    I need shock therapy and a belt of scotch.

    You’re like a filthy degenerate version of Sir Les Patterson.

    Do you seriously wonder why you cop so much verbal abuse?

    Keep your onanistic fantasies to yourself, you sexually repressed grub.

  202. .

    Steve has no google cache. The sure sign of a guilty conscience!

  203. Les Majesty

    I find the idea that you whack off to images of me whacking off totally revolting.

    What?!?! Steve has pictures of Hill whacking off, and he whacks off to them?

    Mark, why did you send Steve pictures like that?

    Steve, just why?

    And I thought this thread couldn’t get any weirder.

    Now excuse me while I go whack off to a picture of CL in an SS uniform.

  204. .

    Les you are seriously not helping.

    Let me you distract you.

    Campion! Linebacker. Pape. Kosovo. Obama. Santorum.

  205. Yes, that line did read like an accidental admission that dot has some photos on the net that he would rather not discuss.

  206. .

    Yes, that line did read like an accidental admission that dot has some photos on the net that he would rather not discuss.

    You filthy degenerate. You said you imagined such things, conservative Catholic Steve.

    Sinclair. Is sexual harassment a good enough reason to ban Steve? Thanks.

  207. Gab

    Well. The tone at Catallxy has dropped to stupid levels.

    Steve, do you ever think of anything else other than wanking?

    Sinclair, seriously, why do you allow such dirty school boy humour at the Cat? It’s not even funny.

    Steve’s low class smuttiness really brings the place down.

  208. Gee, it would just be like what happened to that Tillman guy all over again.

  209. .

    Steve,

    This just goes to show you ought not to be banned for being a sexually confused twerp, but one dumb motherfucker.

  210. JC

    This just goes to show you ought not to be banned for being a sexually confused twerp, but one dumb motherfucker.

    Go for both. You won’t be wrong.

  211. Steve’s low class smuttiness really brings the place down.

    Yes, Gab. I am interfering with the insightful commentary such as (the easily shocked) dot’s that all feminists need is a good f*ck?

  212. Gab

    Steve

    You disturbed person.

    1. Dot’s most likely correct.
    2. He makes one comment and it is not smutty.
    3. He makes one comment, he does not comment on the subject for four to five hours a day, unlike you.

    Lift you’re game. I’m sure your wife would be most proud of what you write. I pity her.

  213. Anyway, after that diversion, encouraged by that Les Majesty guy and my reading The Economist (sheesh, people are acting as if I got it from a subscription to Total Todgers Monthly), we can go back to discussing abortion and how CL is wrong on nearly everything.

  214. wreckage

    SfB; I had the misfortune to be raised religious and rationalist. My position on abortion is rationalist, and in my opinion some restrictions on abortion are inevitable in a rationalist society that maintains a commitment to individual rights and human dignity.

    I just can’t see that terminating a viable foetus without pressing reasons can be justified without resorting to a magical, arbitrary line, before which a viable individual is of no significance, and after which is a person.

  215. Les Majesty

    Wreckage, what “pressing reasons” ever justify killing a human being who has done no wrong?

    Anyway, can we talk about Italian politics for a while?

    Has Berlusconi endorsed Santorum yet?

  216. dover_beach

    The question is when a fetus becomes a human being, and therefore acquires the right to life. And that’s a question to which there are many equally valid scientific answers.

    No there aren’t because the question, when does something acquire the right to life, is not scientific but moral/ philosophical and so must be the answer.

    Containing human DNA and being a person are not the same thing CL. There are many cases of people who were born with a conjoined twin fetus forming part of their anatomy. The condition is called “fetus in fetu”.

    Quite, but a fetus does not merely “contain human DNA”, no one, for instance, imagines that my finger nail or hair constitutes a human being or person and that it because it lacks the features which in sum compose a human being. And the fact that we can distinguish a fetus from a ‘fetus in fetu” suggests that a fetus and an infant are the same person.

    Yobbo (and Jarrah in the recent past), the argument you’ve just deployed is analogous to arguing that we are entitled to murder the elderly because some of them are afflicted by conditions , like severe dementia, that radically diminish their personality and thus make them something other than human beings.

    The extra parts have human DNA, and grow and draw blood/oxyen like your regular body. But they do not constitute a person. They have no conciousness or sense of self.

    That the introduction of ‘fetus in fetu’ was irrelevant is made plain by reference to extra parts; as if a typical fetus is ever an “extra part”. The insertion of ‘consciousness’ and ‘sense of self’ are also irrelevant because there is no evidence that infants in utero have consciousness or a sense of self at 16-18 weeks (the magical number you’ve chosen later than which abortion will be illegal); and no, responding to stimuli, pain, or measurable brain activity does not constitute ‘consciousness’ or a ‘sense of self’. And the gratuitous reference to fetus at 10-12 weeks as simply a “bunches of cells” is simply that, gratuitous. Fetuses at 16-18 weeks are also “bunches of cells”, they are simply more organised “bunches of cells”. All of which points to the problem I initially referred to.

  217. wreckage

    There are many cases of people who were born with a conjoined twin fetus forming part of their anatomy. The condition is called “fetus in fetu”.

    And it is no longer viable.

    They have no conciousness or sense of self.

    Nor does an unconscious person, nor someone who’s on particular drugs, nor in a strict sense does a toddler.

  218. MaryT

    Maybe if all the Catholics could go and live in America, the rest of us can get on developing good public policy.

    Would the 1st Amendment argument apply if catholics dreamt up some conscience objection to minimum wage hikes.

    What if they complain about being forced to pay decent wages, on the pretext of conscience?

    If Catholics cannot accept social standards then why should society accept Catholics?

    Bye, bye catholics, its been nice to know ya, but we gotta keep moving along ….

  219. JamesK

    Sometimes bigoted irrational hatred is easily sen forr ehat it is.

    MartT being a priime example.

    Presumably she arrived from Quiggan

  220. Gab

    ..or maybe coming home from the rave.

  221. .

    What if they complain about being forced to pay decent wages, on the pretext of conscience?

    Then staff get fired, labour is only an input at the margin.

    Bye, bye catholics, its been nice to know ya, but we gotta keep moving along ….

    I wonder if mary wears sheets besides at toga parties.

  222. dover_beach

    Bye, bye catholics, its been nice to know ya, but we gotta keep moving along ….

    As if the intellectual incompetence exhibited by your comments or the rabble which goes by the name, New Atheism (a movement that would embarrass the Old Atheism if it were alive to see it as it does many contemporary atheists/ naturalists like Nagel and Ruse, for instance), would see anything off; certainly not Catholicism.

  223. wreckage

    Would the 1st Amendment argument apply if catholics dreamt up some conscience objection to minimum wage hikes.

    What if they complain about being forced to pay decent wages, on the pretext of conscience?

    Nice to know the calibre of intellect we’re up against.

  224. wreckage

    If Catholics cannot accept social standards then why should society accept Catholics?

    Fascist? Nazi? Or Stalinist?

  225. MaryT

    I suppose we are all sick up to the back teeth of all these Catholic crackpots.

    If they are not abusing kids, they are abusing the blogosphere.

    Selective conscience-mongers are fruitcakes. Good for the 1950’s, not so good in the 70’s and all fully exposed by now.

    Little wonder all the churches are mostly empty except for a few geriatrics. Lets use the sites for pizza parlours.

    May be we could ask each Mormon as they return homw, could they please take one of our Catholics with them?

    This will help – Clean-up Australia.

  226. JamesK

    The scumbagess doubles down

  227. .

    This is clearly phil/freddie/isher/jinmaro/pip/jenny/loki3 etc etc.

    Just fuck off and get a life you sexually confused loser.

    On a humorous note, you have been called “Graeme Bird’s sycophant” by eminent biologist PZ Myers.

  228. MaryT

    Some of us care for kids.

    Some don’t…

    Guess where we put the Catholic priests?

    And the joke is – they try to suggest others are “sexually confused”. Maybe they don’t read the papers or watch the news.

    Maybe it was dumb-dot-dash’s Freudian slip.

  229. JC

    Lets use the sites for pizza parlours.

    Of course Phil. Lol

  230. MaryT

    wreckage

    May like to know that the worst nazi’s are catholic nazis.

    Was Mannix a fascist?

  231. .

    And the joke is – they try to suggest others are “sexually confused”. Maybe they don’t read the papers or watch the news.

    Each child abuse case ought to be vigorously prosecuted. However the Catholic and other mainline churches has sexual and other abuse rates lower or the same as any other private or public institution.

    You’re a bigot, whichever personality you have decided to be today, Jinmaro.

    An uneducated, stupid, lonely unattractive bigot.

  232. MaryT

    Geez

    Dumb-dot-dash

    Are you using this site as a dating agency?

    Sorry but the no vacancy sign is up as far as you are concerned.

    How many times have you heard this/

  233. MaryT

    However the Catholic and other mainline churches has sexual and other abuse rates lower or the same as any other private or public institution.

    Fantasy.

    Show us the evidence.

    Show us the evidence.

    [Sometimes you have to punch data into dumb terminals more than once]

  234. JC

    Sorry but the no vacancy sign is up as far as you are concerned.

    Ya reckon anyone would go near Bird’s fat, nasty sycophant? Lose the tickets Phil. No one’s buying them.

  235. JC

    And stop pretending you’re a woman, Phil. You were born a male and no amount of pretending will change that- even cross dressing and sucking in that gullible Bird in a sort of sick Crying Game fantasy schtick you two have going.

  236. MaryT

    Catallaxy – by their words ye shall know them.

    bigots, hate, piss, pigignorant, deranged, liar, root ur asian bird, onanistic [JamesK]

    bullshit, fascist, Nazi, stalinist [wreckage]

    donkeyarse, chickenshit [Adrien]

    Hitlerian crap [SteveFromBrisbane]

    Sick fuckers [jtfsoon]

    fuck, idiot, shit, leftist nazi scum, Hitlerite Marxist, Hitlerian, lying Marxist git, fucking communist stooge, Hitlerian [Les Majesty]

    Whore [Gab]

    Lying piece of shit [Oh come on]

    Hitlerian, moron, midgets, Nazi, child-murder, Stalinism, Atheist taliban, Nazi, child-murder [C.L.]

    fucking, abortion, shit, fucking, fucking, idiot, fuckers, fuckers, shit, fuck, crap, fuckers, raped, stupid fucker, fuck, dickhead, dickhead, dickhead, fuck, moron, bullshit, idiot, idiot, bullshit, fucking, fucking, shit, fuck, orally sodomize, fuckers, arsehole [J C]

    moron, hard on, fucking, bullshit, bullshit, fuck me dead, fuck, frigging, Jesus Christ, fucking, fuckwit, Marxist fucker, fuck of Marxist creep, lying piece of shit, fuck knuckle, fucking idiot, eat shit, fuck pussy, horseshit, shit, deadshit, whacking off, dumb mother fucker, fuck off [dumb dot dash]

    retard, Nazi, fuck me [Infidel Tiger]

    and these are the ones complaining that the Left dominates intellectual endeavours and polite society.

    This is just survival of the fittest.

  237. Jc

    Phil…

    You forgot the references to you..

    The term you suggested I used as abuse “orally sodomiz” wasn’t in fact any form of abuse at all, you lying sack of shit.

    The term was used as a response to a leftwing idiot who suggested a climate sceptic in congress was abusing hs interns as a result of what I also think are his silly beliefs in creationism and climate science.

    Like most things however,,it’s never propert to allow a leftwinger any right to a free pass, so I then compared demolition party comgressmen sexually manhandling interns either through having or trying to have straight sex with them or orally sodomizimg them as Bill Clinton had done. Congressman Weiner was the rep who came to mind.

    You really are mentally poisonous Phil. You have poison in place of grey matter in that thick skull of yours.

    Now head back to Birds blog and begin the abuse pretending you’re either me or my spouse like you always do. Bird sycophant.

  238. MaryT

    UPDATE ***** UPDATE ***** UPDATE ***** UPDATE *****

    lying sack of shit, orally sodomizing, sycophant. [Jc]

    Why don’t these rightwingers have a language filter?

    (Apart from the fact that they would then be blocked from posting anything).

    catallaxy – “Australia’s leading libertarian and centre-right blog”. Another rightwing lie.

    By their words ye shall know them.

  239. wreckage

    Guess where we put the Catholic priests?

    In roughly the same bracket in terms of abuse per capita as other institutions that grant access to children.

    Selective conscience-mongers are fruitcakes. Good for the 1950?s, not so good in the 70?s and all fully exposed by now.

    Yes, yes, of course. There is nothing inconsistent or totalitarian about your very reasonable insistence that you be permitted to force people to violate their conscience.

    Of course, when faced with a person who wants to undertake a religious purge and deport all Catholics on the one hand, and someone who swears a lot on the other hand, we should all instinctively know which way to break.

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