Open Forum: March 31, 2012

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1,132 Responses to Open Forum: March 31, 2012

  1. JC says:

    Leftheads..

    This is a rightie discussion, so don’t even think of getting involved, as no one needs your fucking opinion.

  2. JamesK says:

    Actually here is the pdf linked official ABC NEWS/WASHINGTON POST POLL I quoted other sources earlier with heading and opening paragrph.

    ABC NEWS/WASHINGTON POST POLL: Favorability #20
    EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE AFTER 7 a.m. Tuesday, March 20, 2012

    For Santorum, a High in the GOP;
    For Gingrich: Trouble with Women

    Rick Santorum reached a new high in favorable ratings from Republicans in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll, numerically outpointing Mitt Romney among party regulars. But both remain underwater more broadly, a sign of the toll of their contentious primary campaign.
    And then there’s the thrice-married Newt Gingrich, resoundingly rejected, in particular, by women: A mere 19 percent of them see him favorably, vs. a remarkable 60 percent unfavorably. He’s also unpopular among men, by a less garish but still-wide 23-point margin.
    Within the GOP, 63 percent express a favorable opinion of Santorum, vs. 58 percent for Romney – not a statistically significant difference, but a challenging one for Romney given his advantages in campaign spending and, until recently, name recognition. Gingrich trails with just 43 percent favorability in his own party, a point from his low two weeks ago.

  3. Jarrah says:

    “We all agree that Santorum is the worst possible choice for President”

    Anyone who believes in limited government does, anyway.

    One of the criticisms I make is to what I refer to as more of a Libertarianish right.

    They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues.

    That is not how traditional conservatives view the world. There is no such society that I’m aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.

  4. dover_beach says:

    I think Santorum would be no worse as President than Romney, and likely better. Whether he is more electable is a different question, but even here I’m not sure he is clearly worse than Romney.

  5. Rabz says:

    anti-war nigg’?

    Watch teh video again, people.

    We discussed* this topic last night.

    *As much as you can discuss anything with min squeak…

  6. JamesK says:

    Anyone who believes in limited government does, anyway.

    I believe in limited government Jarrah and as usual I see ur typing crapology.

  7. dover_beach says:

    Anyone who believes in limited government does, anyway.

    Not at all. There isn’t much in that quotation to frighten anyone that supports limited government.

  8. Infidel Tiger says:

    Look I have no doubt that Santorum is a good husband, a fair father and a respectable break dancer, however, we must all agree that he would be a terrible President. Perhaps only Woodrow Wilson’s exhumed corpse would be worse.

  9. Jarrah says:

    “I believe in limited government Jarrah”

    So how can you support Santorum?

    “I see ur typing crapology”

    The irony is twofold – you typed ‘ur’ and I typed Santorum’s own words.

  10. Fisky says:

    No no you have all got this wrong. I am not claiming that Santorum called Obama a ‘nigger’. I made it clear that the term was ‘nigg…’. I must admit I do not know what that word means. Could someone help me?

  11. JamesK says:

    Can I say that Obaam’s live mic convesation with Medvedev alone will see him sink in the general election.

    It’s not got airplay or serious ceriticism in the msm but it ain’t gonna go away.

    It’s the declared reason why Marco Rubio said he decided to endorse Romney.

    I think either Santorum or Romney will win.

    I think Santorum would be a better President but more importantly a better candidate than Romney.

    Lastly as soon as the GOP cnadidate is ‘crownmed’ before or after the Convention in Florida the Dem negative MSM coverage ramps up and the $1 billion negative tv ads start.

    Better that be forced to wait for as long as possible imho.

  12. Rabz says:

    “We know the candidate bollocks odumbo, what he was like – the anti-war government niggah.”

    Yep, it just makes so much sense. No wonder he didn’t say it.

  13. JamesK says:

    So how can you support Santorum?

    For the same reason I’d support Romney but less intensely

  14. Peter Patton says:

    That is not how traditional conservatives view the world.

    Earth to InSanitorium. “Traditional” does not mean 1980, and even conservatives have moved on from Tammy Baker and the gang. It’s Bullshit, man! Dude, the Reagan era has been and gone; his work done. So, why don’t you put on your fluffy slippers, and go back to watching My Three Sons, and Leave It to Beaver? Leave the 21st century to the grown-ups. Please.

  15. dover_beach says:

    Yes, the ‘grown-ups’ seem to be on top of things at the moment don’t they.

  16. Peter Patton says:

    Perhaps only Woodrow Wilson’s exhumed corpse would be worse.

    What about a Jimmy Carter comeback?

  17. JamesK says:

    What precisely are you frightened of Peter?

    Santorum has a long history in elected state and natiuonal office.

    Tell us what has so ruffled ur fine sensibilities and why.

  18. . says:

    Let’s keep 80s music though.

  19. JC says:

    So how can you support Santorum?

    1. He wants to lower the corporate tax rate to 17% and zero for manufacturing. While I think the distortion is not great, it certainly is in the right direction.

    2. Repeal Odumbocare

    3. pay down the deficit faster then the others.

    4. eliminate certain government departments.

    5. Eliminate AGW related regulations.

    He’s not libertarian by the long shot, but to place a big government sticker on him is dishonest on a relative basis. Not surprising coming from you Jazzabelle.

  20. JamesK says:

    Let’s keep 80s music though.

    Let’s not

  21. Peter Patton says:

    dot

    Indeed. Perhaps Newt Gingrich’s missuses could reform Bananarama!

  22. JC says:

    ……we must all agree that he would be a terrible President.

    I’m not sure about that. I think he’d be okay. On the social side he would only move around the edges perhaps defunding abortion, especially overseas.

    I reckon his main focus would be the economy.

    Now I would not vote for Santorum, however I think he would make an okay president especially when matched against the Kenyan.

    Take a look at what he says and what his policies are instead of believing the left wing hype about him.

  23. Rabz says:

    Let’s keep 80s music though.

    Let’s not

    No, let’s…

  24. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B. says:

    JamesK, two ‘let’s not’ in less than an hour. Are you full of general negativity tonight? It’s all Tony Abbott’s fault, of course.

    80’s music is OK. 90’s techno is horrible though. Right now, I don’t mind Eliza Doolittle at times.

    60’s music is hot. It goes around, it comes around.

  25. Peter Patton says:

    db

    Am finding Locke a nightmare. At least in Human Understanding (don’t know about his political stuff), his writing style is unreadable. Fortunately, I found a book that translates him into 21st century English prose, which seems otherwise very faithful to the original. A lot of his empiricism stuff is silly, but that’s only given what subsequent knowledge has revealed. However, to give him his due, I can sense that what he is on about is a much grander mega systematic account of life, universe, and everything, of similar ambition to Aristotle. The trouble is, I also gather, that to get that full appreciation would require I read a lot more of Human Understanding than I can stomach. Which is a bit of a problem for choosing the topic of “persons”, as it’s now clear that what he is driving at has deep and unavoidable connections with points he is making in every other part of the book. Unlike his oak tree, you can’t lop off a few branches of the book, and still get the idea. Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh!!!

  26. John Mc says:

    One of the criticisms I make is to what I refer to as more of a Libertarianish right.

    They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues.

    That is not how traditional conservatives view the world. There is no such society that I’m aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.

    That statement chills me to the bone. I feel more comfort with most of what Obama says than the uncertainty of what that statement suggests might come.

  27. C.L. says:

    We all agree that Santorum is the worst possible choice for President…

    I wouldn’t say that. Romney is a socialist, a liberal flip-flopper and a big game loser. Plus everyone in the GOP hates him. He’s also a weirdo cult member whose ‘church’ is the white version of Jeremiah Wright.

    Frankly, he gives me the creeps. He even looks like a character from the Addams Family.

    He has also endorsed the Occupy movement.

  28. JamesK says:

    two ‘let’s not’ in less than an hour

    But but Lizzie..but Tone is relentles

    T-Rex Lizzie.

    I will say no more.

  29. kae says:

    The n word is now nincompoop.

  30. JC says:

    Santorum’s economic policies are great.

    Santorum’s jobs plan rests on a restructuring of tax rates, cuts to government spending, repealing the Dodd-Frank and Sarbanes-Oxley regulatory reform laws, and allowing increased domestic energy production.

    Repealing Dadd Frank and Sarbanes are abolutely necessary.

    Santorum would halve the corporate tax rate, and reform the individual tax code. He would permanently extend current rates on dividends and capital gains, and end the estate tax. He would tax repatriation of companies’ foreign earnings at a rate of 5 percent.

    Good tax policy.

    Santorum has said that the size of the federal government should match 18 percent of gross domestic product. He would seek changes by way of a Balanced Budget Amendment.

    Good beginning to taking the government down.

    Santorum suggested at a September debate that he would prefer to see Medicare administered privately. Proposed partial privatization of Social Security and raised retirement age during congressional career.

    Health care reform Santorum has pledged to repeal President Obama’s health care law, and would seek to do so using the budget reconciliation process.

    Foreign policy Santorum had urged President Obama to act more decisively in Libya, and was a strong supporter of the war in Iraq.

    Silly.

    Immigration Santorum opposes in-state college tuition for the children of illegal immigrants, and favors making English the official language of the U.S., along with building a fence along the border between the U.S. and Mexico.

    Energy/Environment Santorum favors an energy policy using oil, natural gas, coal, and nuclear energy. He opposes new regulations on natural gas, and would allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).

    Good, “drill baby drill”.

    Abortion Opposes abortion rights even in the case of rape.

    Problematic, but there’s really not much he can do.

    Same-sex marriage Santorum is a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, and would seek a Constitutional amendment banning such marriages.

    Climate change Santorum called the notion of climate change “junk science.”

    I disagree with him on some of the social policy issues, however lets recall that the Lying slapper was also against same sex marriage until she was for it.

  31. Peter Patton says:

    Hey, I just found some footage from Newt’s wedding.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sfjr7Hbq54

  32. JC says:

    His climate science policy is very funny.

    Climate change Santorum called the notion of climate change “junk science.”

  33. Peter Patton says:

    Gawd Rabz, I used to practically live at Ministry of Sound. Ah, them were the days.

  34. JamesK says:

    Am finding Locke a nightmare

    Why? Is it the ‘God’ thing Peter?

    Universally all men have an intrinsic – God-given – right to life, liberty including freedom of speech and religion and property/land rights.

    And why is that something ur not willing to extend to Rick?

  35. JC says:

    Economic policy wise, Santorum’s is far superior than Romney’s by a long shot.

  36. Rabz says:

    Pete,

    Very annoyed, I couldn’t find the definitive version of that track – I had 12 inch vinyl copy back in the day and it was bluddee awesome…

  37. John Mc says:

    Reagan may be from another time but the way he spoke united the conservative and libertarian elements of the Republicans. He united these elements so well that he refined (if not redefined) what it meant to be a Republican.

  38. Peter Patton says:

    James

    It is the god thing, actually. But, it has nothing to do with my own take on god or religion, but I am slowing getting the impression that once you accept that Locke is absolutely a true believer, he becomes easier to read, so long as you can read and chew gum at the same time, and remind yourself that at the end of each sentence, there’s Locke’s – Protestant – god – sweating like a whore in church peddling like the clappers out yonder to make the universe go round. By insisting on this ultimate force, he makes everything else so unnecessarily complex. Still, we are talking about the 17th century here. He can only mould the clay he’s got.

  39. Peter Patton says:

    Universally all men have an intrinsic – God-given – right to life, liberty including freedom of speech and religion and property/land rights.

    Misanthropic horseshit.

  40. John Mc says:

    What’s misanthropic about it?

  41. Rabz says:

    Always time for a bit of Kate…

    Live 1978 – Top of the Pops?

  42. dover_beach says:

    PP, you need to get Feser’s book on Locke, post haste. The problem for Locke is that he repudiates the thing that makes natural law and rights, among other things, intelligible, namely, formal and final causality, all the while retaining the framework as well as belief in God. Feser also situates Locke and interprets him in a larger background, namely, one that sees the early moderns as actively rejecting Aristotelianism and Scholasticism. But because Feser is himself an Aristotelian-Thomist (A-T), he actually is quite good at explaining what in fact Locke and they were rejecting rather than mere caricatures as well as explaining the problems they encountered having then rejected A-T.

    Universally all men have an intrinsic – God-given – right to life, liberty including freedom of speech and religion and property/land rights.

    It isn’t a simple as this for Locke. According to Locke, God owns us, we are merely the custodians/ stewards of His property. So these rights, according to Locke, are not strictly speaking, our own, but we can think of them in some derivative sense as if they were our own.

  43. wreckage says:

    sweating like a whore in church

    He PREFERS to be likened to a mother in childbirth, thankyouverymuch.

  44. Peter Patton says:

    db

    I’ll track him down. It’s just that the assignment requires excruciating attention to Locke’s text.

  45. Max Scream says:

    Santorum would appeal to the freckle-skinned, non-indigenous population of the non-Anglo Protestant ascendancy in Australia.

  46. wreckage says:

    Feser is also a bloody good writer, so if you disagree with him it’s not a bitter waste of time to have read his work.

  47. Peter Patton says:

    db

    If I had more time, I’d find Locke a lot more interesting, as I would read him as an historical source to be placed in a larger historical world. I think I’m already ruined by an historian’s education. I just cannot take a philosopher’s text, and read it on its own terms. Oh well.

  48. Peter Patton says:

    db, I am already Locke as somebody imprisoned in Scholasticism, but he doesn’t realise it. 😉

  49. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    yay!

    Just got delivery of a book I have been after for ages. Mate found a copy in Armidale.

    Most people would not get excited about getting a copy of the Official Yearbook of the Commonwealth of Australia 1901-1920.

    Lucky I am not most people eh?

  50. Peter Patton says:

    Except maybe Locke knew Greek. The problem with centuries and centuries of European life was they were slaves to incredibly dodgy Latin renderings of Greek texts. Including a version of Aristotle copied into Latin from Arabic translations of Syriac, and so on. Aaaarrrrgghhhhh!!!

  51. John Mc says:

    Yeah, Mk50, but have you got the ‘Skippy’ Annual 1973?

  52. Peter Patton says:

    db

    Actually a genuine A-T’s reading of Locke would be extremely helpful, as at least they could lay naked what Locke is clearly trying to place fig leafs around.

  53. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    John Mc

    Ummm. No.

    I do have an original 1957 Staff study on the Defeat of the U-boat (2 vols) though. Does that count?

  54. dover_beach says:

    I’ll track him down. It’s just that the assignment requires excruciating attention to Locke’s text.

    PP, yes, I see your problem. Still, he does continually refer to the primary material.

    db, I am already Locke as somebody imprisoned in Scholasticism, but he doesn’t realise it.

    Nominalism, maybe, but not Thomism, and the former is really already very little like Aristotelianism.

    Feser is also a bloody good writer, so if you disagree with him it’s not a bitter waste of time to have read his work.

    wreckage, this is very true. I only just came across his work near the end of last year and it really is very good and he clearly knows his stuff.

  55. John Mc says:

    Mk50, it’s a second tier interest rather than a primary passion. Y’know, watching documentaries and stuff. I’m more aligned with land forces and aviation.

    However, on matters naval, especially submarines, I read your perspective with interest.

  56. Winston Smith says:

    It would appear that when Obama was doing Professor stuff, he was teaching Critical Race Theory.
    Some courses have surfaced.
    Find them here.

  57. JamesK says:

    I don’t care what u say d-b, I’m immortal even if my propert rights aren’t.

  58. twostix says:

    Boy on a Bike’s fairfax – earth hour ownership expose hits the US:

    The [WWF’s] partner was “Australasia’s largest multi-platform media group.” Fairfax Media owns major newspapers in both Australia and New Zealand – including The Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, The Australian Financial Review, The Canberra Times, The Dominion Post, The Press, and The Sunday Star-Times.

    Fairfax Media publishes “metropolitan, agricultural, regional and community newspapers,” owns consumer magazines and “a portfolio of leading websites,” and also runs radio stations (source; backup link).

    As the company website explains:

    For the six month period year ended 25 December 2011, Fairfax Media reported underlying revenues and profit after tax of $1.23 billion and $135.7 million respectively.

    The Boy on a bike blog has dug up copies of Fairfax’s financial statements which confirm that it owns one-third of Earth Hour. Evidently this company doesn’t merely report the news, it’s also in the business of “environmental promotion.”

    http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2012/03/31/earth-hour-rage-rage-for-the-dying-of-the-light/

  59. Splatacrobat says:

    Ive got a “Minder” Annual if that helps?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExAjQUXuVCI

    Arthur Daley: You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.

    Now I know where Gillard got her idea for a carbon tax

  60. JamesK says:

    Oh good Lord, his Father was Kenyan.

    How about ‘White-Black-Kenyan-American’ for the Kenyan?

  61. Winston Smith says:

    Breitbart has an explanation of CRT.

  62. John Mc says:

    Watching the stupid fag David Marr on Insiders. From the consistency of his presence every week you’d think he hosted the show.

  63. dover_beach says:

    I don’t care what u say d-b, I’m immortal even if my propert rights aren’t.

    That may be true, JamesK, but please don’t use Locke in order to argue your case; Aquinas would serve you better.

  64. JamesK says:

    Well my “case” was to yank Peter’s chain about Santorum.

    I can’t see how Tommy’s gonna help.

  65. John Mc says:

    This is the most bitter episode of Insiders I’ve seen. I think they’re all secretly imagining ripping each others throats out. It’s like they’ve been forced to be there.

  66. dover_beach says:

    Oh, you watching it too, John Mc. It is incredible. I can’t believe they’re now talking about Greer, Abbott and Gillard’s awful wardrobe.

  67. JamesK says:

    Watching the stupid fag David Marr on Insiders means votes for Abbott.

    He’s nausea-inducing and the Left are blind to just how harmful he is to their cause.

    Mainly ‘cos although they know it’s bullshit, they’d like to believe it were true.

    He did Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison no end of good today.

  68. John Mc says:

    It’s due to Labor’s recent overwhelming defeat in QLD, which the faithful know is coming in the next Federal election.

    It’s quite acceptable when that hag Greer says the PM has a fat arse (in fact, it’s really witty), but completely unacceptable if the male leader of the opposition makes a passing comment agreeing with a member of the public on what the fem-hag says.

  69. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    Yeah, Marr’s a complete scumbag. The show’s pretty piss-poor as it is. He makes it unwatchable – there have been extraordinary allegations made about Marr’s erm… proclivities. Watching his overinflated ego in action, they are believable.

    Bolt used to chop him into catmeat with the greatest of ease. Henderson routinely does too, so they match the rancid squealboy with Ackerman, who’s third rate. Marr’s the best the left has to offer.

    He can compete with a third-rate conservative.

  70. . says:

    Akerman is a mediocre performer with a mildly likeable agenda. He only gets recognition as an exposition of the art of smearing softly by lefties.

  71. Gab says:

    They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues.

    Sounds like Estonia. Flat tax rate, little government interference in business, lowest government debt to GDP among European countries; it is a wonder of free market capitalism.

  72. candy says:

    it’s a woman’s obligation in life to keep a firm, taut and well-shaped bottom. for the benefit of all. clothes fit better and a nice bottom gives us a certain confidence in life, intangible but true fact.

  73. John Mc says:

    Did anyone just see that clip of Bob Carr on ABC News 24? That man is our Foreign Minister. He represents us to other nations.

  74. Infidel Tiger says:

    it’s a woman’s obligation in life to keep a firm, taut and well-shaped bottom.

    Well said Candy. Very we said indeed.

  75. John Mc says:

    My better half just pointed out that Aldi is selling wheelchairs. Is there anything that store doesn’t sell!!?

  76. JC says:

    Yep, could agree more, Candy. I’m with you and IT on this one.

  77. Peter Patton says:

    James

    I am starting to click that Locke thinks he’s immortal too, and that he is wasting my time contorting everything he has to stay to accommodate his immortality, and that beign of all human thought – the fucking “soul”, FFS. Give me discoing kinky nuns on top of angel pins, please.

  78. Peter Patton says:

    candy

    John Howard had to spend a fortune on his makeover, the least Gillard could do is have a little lipo, and get a new stylist, for the love of god.

  79. candy says:

    “have a little lipo, and get a new stylist, for the love of god.”

    i must disagree. Firm bottoms come from calisthenics and aerobic exercise, and appropriate eating habits, and the rest falls into place.

  80. sdog says:

    This is a serious question: Is Bob Brown going mad?

    Seriously, this latest stuff he’s coming out with sounds hysterical and unhinged, even for him.

    This Earthians & Aliens bizzo… “That’s why they are not communicating with Earth. They have extincted themselves.”

    Weird personal anecdotes… “Recently, when I got back to bed at Liffey after ruminating under the stars for hours on this question, Paul enquired, ‘did you see a comet?’ ‘Yes’, I replied, ‘and it is called ‘Global Democracy’.”
    ….
    ….I really fear there’s something seriously organically wrong with him.

    And why isn’t anyone in the MSM calling him on any of this? If any conservative were talking crazy-talk like this…

  81. Max Scream says:

    The Bony Bishop is an osteoporotic hip fracture waiting to happen.

  82. Peter Patton says:

    She’s too busy for all that malarky.

  83. Gab says:

    He never said anything about the CIA, Spot. Unless and until he does, the MSM will just treat him as sane.

    How anyone could swallow the rubbish and lies Brown spits out is unfathomable.

  84. dover_beach says:

    the fucking “soul”

    But the soul as conceived by Descartes and Locke is really quite different to the soul as it was conceived by Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas. In fact, I’m really warming to the latter.

  85. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    Squealer: sod off swampy.

    SDog

    He’s always been like that: I guess it’s what advanced syphilis does?? And he was a complete anti-human bigot and barking whackjob to start with.

    A few people are noticing now just how crack-pated the ancient brown-hatter really is. He’s been the protected precious petal princess in a pink toutou his entire political career. When Chris Uhlman asked him the first hard question any journalist ever did ask the rancid old screwball (last year IIRC), the vicious old windjammer tried to have him sacked.

  86. candy says:

    “Descartes ”

    i drink therefore i’m pissed?

  87. Max Scream says:

    Naughty Mirabella, and close to the Mad Monk, beieves in sharing between husband and wife even when not married:

    AN UGLY spat over the will of a dead former lover could engulf Federal Liberal frontbencher Sophie Mirabella as the man’s family considers Supreme Court action to challenge her management of his estate.

    Colin Howard, QC, a highly regarded former dean of law at Melbourne University, was Ms Mirabella’s de facto partner in the late 1990s, despite a 40-year age gap – a fact she has successfully kept secret until now.

    During their relationship, Mr Howard made Ms Mirabella (then Sophie Panopoulos) the executor of his will, and his children, Mervyn and Lesley, believe she is also a beneficiary, perhaps the sole beneficiary, of an estate worth more than $1 million.

    However, the children have concerns about how Ms Mirabella cared for their father’s health and finances. They believe he made two substantial gifts of money to Ms Mirabella, the first in 2000 and 2001 to help fund her Liberal preselection and election to the seat of Indi, and the second in late 2006 to help her buy a $695,000 farmhouse in Wangaratta.

    They say the second gift came after they had seen evidence that Mr Howard’s mental health and judgment were deteriorating. He was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease in 2008.

    Ms Mirabella has not yet applied for a grant of probate on the will, but Mervyn and Lesley Howard are willing to take action in the Supreme Court to force her to disclose information.

    ”We’ve been told by Sophie Mirabella that she’s the executor of the will, and we believe the sole beneficiary,” Mervyn Howard told The Age.

  88. Peter Patton says:

    db

    I will say I have warmed to Mister Locke’s treatment of identity, not as a substance, but as a relation. I hadn’t thought of it like that before. But as soon as I saw, a red light flashed – “Linear Algebra”. I don’t know if that’s where he is coming from, was Linear Algebra even invented at that time? Or maybe he was one of the dudes inventing it? If he is riffing off Linear Algebra – with its ‘reflections;, ‘projections’, translations’, blah – then I read him as merely trying to leapfrog the issues – particularly personhood – by doing through time, what Linear Algebra does through space.

    At least what I’ve read so far, he might have kept at bay the notion that we change into the person we were supposes to be (sorry if that’s a clumsy rendering of final causes and such), but he seems to be saying ‘the end justifies the means’ so it doesn’t really matter what/how a human got from before to now and then after, all we need ask is ‘is there consciousness in tact’? After all, that identity is a relation is actually an idea seems a bit slippery. Yes, it’s a really neat “move”, but perhaps a little unfair to the ‘identity as substance’ position.

    I’ve just read modern-day some dude using ‘thought experiments’ in order to deal with Mister Locke. He posits transporting human DNA and consciousness into the future to wonder if the same ‘person’ arrives at the other end. I am thus left with no option, but to turn to the bourbon bottle.

  89. sdog says:

    John & James – I agree that Marr is insufferable, but it doesn’t have anything to do with his sexual orientation. He’s just intrinsically, congenitally, insufferable. He’d like as not be just as insufferable if he were straight. I’m not trying to play PC Cop, it’s just that I don’t think shouting “fag! fag! fag!” at an insufferable Leftoid who happens to be gay is terribly edifying.

  90. candy says:

    “Naughty Mirabella, and close to the Mad Monk”

    You come across as disrespectful of people there Max.
    You often have valid and sympathetic points of view that I like to read and sometimes agree with, but the above sounds un-Christian.

    I am presuming you are not personal friends of Mr Abbott and Ms Mirabella, of course, and even if you were, it would not be appropriate to expand on that relationship over the Net.

  91. Max Scream says:

    Well, at least, Guillard acquired whatever she has through her own exertions and has even retained her figure.

  92. sdog says:

    I think you’re half-joking about the syphilis, Mk50, but some sort of organic medical condition affecting his mental processes is exactly what I am concerned about. I’m half-afraid to ridicule him at this point because he’s just gone so cray-cray, I half-expect to find out that he’s suffering a brain tumor or early-onset dementia or something similar and then I’d feel bad about having gone him. It’s the same reason I’m reluctant to pile on to Charles Johnson these days.

  93. dover_beach says:

    I’m not trying to play PC Cop, it’s just that I don’t think shouting “fag! fag! fag!” at an insufferable Leftoid who happens to be gay is terribly edifying.

    I’m with sdog here. His being insufferable has nothing to do with his ‘orientation’.

  94. Max Scream says:

    I come across as disrepectful. Every racial epithet and swear word possible is used around here except for the c-word which is banned.

    The Mirabella piece comes from a newspaper and her role as the lover in a relationship with a forty year older man is interesting, to say the least, given its secrecy and how it may reflect on her political beliefs.

    Conservatives love to talk about family, after all, not secret liasons.

  95. kae says:

    Gillard doesn’t have a mirror nor does she have any friends, or someone would tell her about those awful jackets.

    Osteoporosis is suffered by people who aren’t skinny, too. Like hypertension, size doesn’t matter.

    candy, there are plenty of women with big bums for whom no amount of exercise will ensmallen same.

  96. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    The gay community is always awash with rumour, SDog. It’s just one of many, and like most is probably wrong. Like the AIDS ones.

    Personally I just think he’s barking mad, congenitally vicious, has the morals of a concentration camp guard and has the intellect of a nematode.

  97. dover_beach says:

    I will say I have warmed to Mister Locke’s treatment of identity, not as a substance, but as a relation.

    PP, I would warm to neither, and neither would the three I earlier referred to because both these positions are symptoms of the rejection of A-T.

  98. Peter Patton says:

    Gillard doesn’t have a mirror nor does she have any friends, or someone would tell her about those awful jackets.

    Indeed, her colouring is awful. She would do well to take some tips from Her Majesty and Hillary Clinton, who looks just lovely in a tangerine pant suit.

  99. dover_beach says:

    Conservatives love to talk about family, after all, not secret liasons.

    Secret? Surely you simply meant to say private. Yes, it is ‘very strange’ that anyone let alone a conservative would avoid publicizing a private relationship.

  100. Lazlo says:

    Nice bit of dirt digging Max. You must be so proud. It seems to be in the ALP DNA. Despite the experience of spectular failure in Qld, they keep doing it.

    To be encouraged, I say.

  101. Peter Patton says:

    db

    The other confounding bit is that Mister Locke is clearly also pointing his daggers at Msr Descarte’s cogito. Yep, time for the bourbon.

  102. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    Lazlo, the best response to anything the Squealer excretes onto this blog is ‘sod off swampy’.

    he’s learned to cut and paste. That’s pretty much his whole schtick

  103. . says:

    Colin Howard, QC, a highly regarded former dean of law at Melbourne University, was Ms Mirabella’s de facto partner in the late 1990s, despite a 40-year age gap – a fact she has successfully kept secret until now.

    “Personal life”, dickhead.

    You have no respect for this, and have nearly lost your home over this before.

    Now what happened to the carbon bricks?

  104. Max Scream says:

    No, secret, as in she kept it secret from her own family, friends and colleagues that she was in a relationship with a man forty years older.

    So you are wrong, I didn’t mean private by secret I meant secret. Marriage is a public commitment, she wanted a secret one, not a private one.

  105. . says:

    Patton I recommend a Brandy Sour. Gold.

    It also held up other bar patrons for around five minutes last night for a bit of shit stirring hilarity.

    What do they teach kids in bartending school these days? What a standard drink is?

    Like I care.

  106. Max Scream says:

    I”m sorry but I’m not in possession of hidden knowledge, this has all been reported so is a matter now of public knowledge.

  107. Mk50 of Brisbane says:

    Sod off swampy.

  108. . says:

    Marriage is a public commitment

    Oh really fuck off you inquisitorial piece of shit. Please cite the Act and section which requires this.

  109. Max Scream says:

    The signature of a witness might lead you in the right direction, pinhead.

  110. . says:

    Right fuckface, so a will is a “public document”?

    Fuck me you’re a hopeless old loser.

  111. Max Scream says:

    You are such a pinhead with these questions suffused with ignorance.

  112. JC says:

    Bob

    Who are libeling now?

  113. . says:

    You are such a pinhead with these questions suffused with ignorance.

    Shove it Bob. You obviously think a will is also up for public dissemination. You are Torquemada with a clip on bright red nose.

    Now what happened to the carbon bricks?

  114. JC says:

    Yea Bob

    Whatever happened to the carbon bricks?

  115. sdog says:

    If I had a pet monkey who suffered from both Tourette’s syndrome and chronic diarrhea, I would call him “Max.”

  116. JamesK says:

    Give me discoing kinky nuns on top of angel pins, please.

    Why “discoing” Peter?

    Contrary to Candy’s thoughts pert bums are eminently tangible but you have to catch them

  117. Gab says:

    If I had a pet monkey who suffered from both Tourette’s syndrome and chronic diarrhea,

    I’d put him out of his misery.

  118. Peter Patton says:

    James, that was sooooo 2 hours ago when we were talking about 80s music.

  119. Peter Patton says:

    Or, James, are you one of those freaks who like their kinky nuns headbanging, rather than discoing? Here you go – the Kinky Headbanging Nuns Anthem.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs

  120. sdog says:

    Drive-by sniping on Twitter:

    “Your retarded, you looser retard.”

    What does that even mean?

  121. JamesK says:

    @sdog.

    The fag part is just a fact.

    I made no value judgement on that.

    I know quite a few erudite and wonderful fags.

    First class human beings.

    Marr is a condescending and ignorant prick who happens to be a fag.

    That’s all.

  122. sdog says:

    That too, Gabs. Though Our Max is like to take that as a Death Threat™.

  123. JamesK says:

    I just like kinky nuns to have pert bums and to be deliciously kinky.

    I’m really bog-standard in my favourite perversions

  124. sdog says:

    Could someone please edumacate JamesK as to the first rule of holes? Ta.

  125. Infidel Tiger says:

    Could someone please edumacate JamesK as to the first rule of holes?

    Dig up, stupid!

  126. Gab says:

    Bundoora Bob (aka Robert Manne) issued a challenge to Professor Bunyip.

    Bunyip issues one right back.

    Hilarity will ensue.

    http://bunyipitude.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/robert-manne-writes.html

  127. JamesK says:

    Don’t u like kinky nuns sdog?

    You Protestants don’t know how to party.

  128. dover_beach says:

    So you are wrong, I didn’t mean private by secret I meant secret. Marriage is a public commitment, she wanted a secret one, not a private one.

    Yes, in so far as her keeping this relationship secret from her family, you are right. I’m not sure it was entirely true so much as her friends and colleagues are concerned and I’m not sure it matters either. The relationship began and ended in the late-90s. I don’t think she ever pretended she was married to Brown nor that she ever wanted it.

  129. Peter Patton says:

    james, dude, pert bums are so, like, I don’t know – some other time! The Thinking Man’s Kinky Nun’s Anthem – the Bottom Mix.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0&ob=av2e

  130. JamesK says:

    Pert does not imply petite

  131. Peter Patton says:

    Perhaps Australia should change our national anthem, in honour of our first Lady PM?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0&ob=av2e

  132. JamesK says:

    J-Lo for instance could to a fetish habit the world of good.

  133. Peter Patton says:

    James

    A fetish for habits, eh? This habit kinky enough, eh?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg-x5HkOMJs&feature=related

  134. Abu Chowdah says:

    So Candy, can we infer you have a firm and brag worthy arse?

  135. sdog says:

    So Candy, can we infer you have a firm and brag worthy arse?

    Careful, Abu. Like as not, “she’s” a Gay Girl in Damascus.

  136. tbh says:

    Nielsen poll has the ALP primary vote at 27% and 2PP at 57-43 the Coalition’s way.

    I’d say the government are in trouble.

  137. Fisky says:

    Let’s face it. Australians just don’t like the Labor Party (the feeling is mutual, obviously).

  138. Abu Chowdah says:

    As I have always suspected, Spot!

  139. Peter Patton says:

    Fisky

    I am much more sympathetic to Labor than most folks here, but I am completely stumped by how they remain in government. The ONLY explanation is that a sensible Australian polity reckoned it is unseemly to allow one gang in power for more than a decade. But for how long the Australian polity will wait for the memory of the previous regime to clear is a question Labor really should be trying to answer. Sometimes, a mere change is a shithouse holiday.

  140. C.L. says:

    it’s a woman’s obligation in life to keep a firm, taut and well-shaped bottom. for the benefit of all. clothes fit better and a nice bottom gives us a certain confidence in life, intangible but true fact.

    Good comment.

  141. C.L. says:

    Romney neo-leftist Ann Coulter has now decided she doesn’t like Marco Rubio either.

    Same link: a genuinely interesting, solid idea from Van Jones, of all people:

    Van Jones, a former environmental advisor in the Obama White House, threw a brand new name into the realm of vice presidential speculation: former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who served under George W. Bush.

    “She ticks off a lot of boxes as far as women, persons of color, but she’s actually tested, she’s a national figure and she has foreign policy experience” Jones said. “You want to do something bold, put Condoleezza Rice on the ticket and watch the Obama campaign go crazy.”

  142. Fisky says:

    “She ticks off a lot of boxes as far as women, persons of color, but she’s actually tested, she’s a national figure and she has foreign policy experience” Jones said.

    Er, yes she does. Wasn’t Rice one of the people who carried out the 9/11 attacks, according to Van Jones?

  143. Abu Chowdah says:

    Now, Condy Rice. That there is a fine looking woman with an ass you could bounce dimes off. Mmmm-mmm.

  144. JamesK says:

    No future for liars in politics, says former Labor leader Mark Latham

    Mr Latham said this meant the only option for federal Labor was to “bring in a non-liar as prime minister”.

  145. sdog says:

    “Inconvenient Truths”…

    Democrats supported ‘Stand Your Ground’ gun laws too: http://j.mp/HzPWCJ

  146. Peter Patton says:

    Mr Latham said this meant the only option for federal Labor was to “bring in a non-liar as prime minister”.

    Perhaps this is a job only the Avian Oracle can handle.

  147. Peter Lang says:

    I am seeking some help please.

    Can anyone please refer me to where I can find an estimate of what the compliance cost of the CO2 tax and ETS will be when fully implemented to the standard that will eventually be required?. (I have not been able to find any such estimate, including on the Treasury, DRET or DCCEE web sites).

    Expansion of my question and some thoughts follow:

    What would be the compliance cost for the ETS once it is fully implemented and running at the level of accuracy required for trading the commodity (CO2-e) and at the level of financial security from fraud that will be expected? For example, what will be the annual cost for:

    – Public servants in DCCEE, Treasury, ATO, Australian Federal Police, state police forces, state bureaucracies, Attorneys’ General Departments, Federal Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism, ABARE, BREE, the equivalent state departments of energy, resources, agriculture, forestry, environment, Prime Minister and Cabinet, State departments of Premier and Cabinet, the law courts, High Court, goals, any others I haven’t thought of?

    – The businesses that have to report their emissions – what is the cost to implement and maintain the monitoring equipment and to report.? What is the cost to update and replace equipment, reporting systems and legacy data each time the rules change (as they do every few years)?

    – Farmers and all the upstream and downstream industries (farming will be included eventually if the tax and ETS remain)

    – Accountants, lawyers, accounting firms, law firms, courts?

    – Firms that use the data, analyse it and report? What is the cost for them to have to maintain and continually update their systems and legacy data?

    – I haven’t even started to ask questions about the compliance cost for purchasing overseas carbon credits

    I understand the some of the costs involved in doing what the USA EPA requires (clearly we would have to move to that level of accountability and well beyond it eventually), are in the order of $21 billion per year. These two links provide some insight into the current requirements in the USA http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/business/ecmps/docs/ECMPSEMRI2009Q2.pdf
    http://www.epa.gov/airmarkt/emissions/docs/plain_english_guide_par75_final_rule.pdf
    We can only imagine what the costs would be for the businesses involved and all the organisations who take this data and analyses it. Notice that the rules have been changing (for emissions other than CO2) every few years for about the last three decades (roughly); think of the compliance cost that imposes.

    The EPA recently stated in a court submission that the cost to the EPA alone to manage the existing regulations would be $21 billion per year. That is not a typo. They estimated they would have to increase their permanent staff numbers from 17,000 to 233,000 permanent employees. (It is clear from this why the unions want a carbon tax and ETS – it means lots more public servants and hence lots more union dues). The cost to business could be expected to be at least ten times this cost, and the other departments who have a role to play would at least double the EPA cost.

    What does this mean for Australia? Well, initially Australia does not intend to monitor or measure its emissions. It will simply estimate them. The system set up by AEMO to estimate electricity system emissions is very crude. It is nowhere near the standard the USA or even the Europeans are doing. I am sure we will have to get up to best practice eventually. That means big increases in compliance cost as time goes on. And this is for electricity emissions only. What happens when the compliance requirements are extended to all businesses emitting CO2 emissions, as will be required eventually.

    Can anyone help me please?

  148. Oh come on says:

    CL: interesting idea. It’s probably a non-starter, because I don’t think Obama would be willing to be her VP.

    Or did Van Jones think she would settle for anything less than the top job?

  149. Peter Lang says:

    If this is not the best place to post a long comment and question, like the one above, could someone please suggest a better place to post it?

  150. Peter Patton says:

    James/db

    I get the impression that Mister Locke is much more accessible if daily talk about ‘the soul’ was a feature of your life as a schoolboy, such as attending a Catholic school. But for this heathen, it just makes Mr. Locke’s arguments seem circular.

  151. Peter Patton says:

    OMG. This is what happens when you mainline that ‘soul’ stuff for too long.

    [Bob] Brown listed four goals for the Earth parliament: Economy, Equality, Ecology and Eternity.

    Though this is something truly kooky for a Xian to say:

    “The pursuit of eternity is no longer the prerogative of the gods,” said the Greens leader, “it is the business of us all, here and now.” It is not a bad ploy for a politician: promise eternity and who can prove you failed to deliver it?

    Gods, plural?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/earth-to-gillard-watch-bob-brown/story-fn8qlm5e-1226315848343

  152. JamesK says:

    I get the impression that Mister Locke is much more accessible if daily talk about ‘the soul’ was a feature of your life as a schoolboy, such as attending a Catholic school. But for this heathen, it just makes Mr. Locke’s arguments seem circular.

    Please don’t seem eager to advertise ur soullessness Peter.

    You ain’t that bad.

  153. Token says:

    “Inconvenient Truths”…

    Democrats supported ‘Stand Your Ground’ gun laws too:

    …and it was a registered Democrat that used this law as cover.

  154. sdog says:

    …yet it was all still Rush Limbaugh’s fault. Somehow.

  155. . says:

    Nielsen poll has the ALP primary vote at 27% and 2PP at 57-43 the Coalition’s way.

    I’d say the government are in trouble.

    What a wonderful way to start the day.

    Peter Lang, I hope you stick around. You have some good information yourself.

  156. Token says:

    Remember this guy who was deported because of his religion…

    …and the fact he was part of a plot to plant a bomb at the sleepy hamlet of Lucas Heights?

    Well, maybe it would’ve been a better idea to lock him up for life…

    AUSTRALIA’S most notorious terrorist Willie Brigitte has been arrested by French police in a dawn raid on alleged Islamic extremists.

    The former Sydney man was one of 17 suspects who intelligence officials allege had a stash of arms, took part in terror training and may have been planning a kidnapping.

    Brigitte was detained by French police on Friday in Asnieres, north of Paris. Police also swooped on houses in Nantes, Marseille, Nice and Toulouse as part of raids following last month’s murders by an al-Qaeda-linked extremist.

  157. . says:

    Will C.L. say I’m unhinged that we didn’t hang him (and should have)?

    Clearly it would have been an act of protecting life, liberty and property.

  158. Token says:

    I was too busy with family yesterday to notice this sage advice from Labor luvvie PvO:

    THE Prime Minister shouldn’t do so much media. She is devaluing her brand and being distracted from her core responsibility – running the country.

    …but as with most the boy blunder writes, it does not stand up to scrutiny. Gillard is dodging the media, which is the point PvO makes in his own article:

    Tony Abbott has already appeared on Australian Agenda, Meet The Press and The Bolt Report in 2012, but this will be Gillard’s first Sunday morning interview of the year.

    Can anyone guess why PvO is no longer featured in the Oz and has been relegated to Sunday pieces for the Tele?

  159. blogstrop says:

    666 comments! Fixed.

  160. Peter Patton says:

    Why thank you, Father James. Do you do confession as well, as baptisms? While I might have a soul myself, I did not grow up ruminating on its antics, nor did any of my teachers, or other grown ups think it was worthy of daily attention, or even annual attention, or any attention at all. So, when as a grown up myself, I encounter dudes from the olden days who had the soul 24/7, it’s a bit of struggle to play ‘catch-up’. But I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it soon enough. So far, I just see it as a place-marker philosophers use, rather than answering with the more crude – but more honest – ‘fuck nose’.

  161. Token says:

    Will C.L. say I’m unhinged that we didn’t hang him (and should have)?

    Clearly it would have been an act of protecting life, liberty and property.

    I’m sure he will dot. He has clear views and I admire the fact he stands by those principals.

    I am like you though, I believe there is a place for capital punishment.

    The upside of sending Willie Brigette back to France was he did not get to educate and convert Australian inmates into the religion of hate he devoutly follows.

  162. Peter Patton says:

    This is the soul that I was tutored in from birth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v79uwZ9uUm8

  163. JamesK says:

    Peter, ur parents didn’t believe in pre-natal soul?

  164. dover_beach says:

    But for this heathen, it just makes Mr. Locke’s arguments seem circular.

    There is nothing circular about the soul, but there is something peculiar about the soul from Descartes onwards.

    So far, I just see it as a place-marker philosophers use,

    You mean, like, the mind? But why is this used as a place-marker and why is the range of phenomenon included under this place-marker swelling in size? Because ‘the Mechanical Philosophy’ simply cannot make them intelligible.

  165. Peter Patton says:

    James

    I was a rather precocious git, who had a tanty at his 5th birthday party, and screamed at my parents “stop telling me that. I’ve told you before there’s no such thing as god.” I can’t recall what prompted such a boorish outburst, but the subject was rarely broached ever again. I suppose I was a bit of a hypocrite there, as I kept it on the down low when I worked out the awful truth about Santa Claus. For my silence, Santa continued to visit for several years afterwards. 🙂

  166. Peter Patton says:

    db

    I gotta ‘yes’ to the mind.

  167. Token says:

    From Tim Blair’s piece today:

    As one of Labor’s few alert operatives told The Daily Telegraph’s Laurie Oakes last week about his party’s leadership: “The Labor base is rejecting us, but they seem genuinely to think there is not a problem. If you don’t accept there is a problem, how do you fix it?”

    So the Labor members actually know that they will be put to the sword by the electorate, but they continue to follow their leaders.

    They really must feel like the French Army did in 1917 and have equal trust in the leadership.

  168. Peter Patton says:

    ‘Consciousness’ is fine, as, of course, is the brain. But arguments that rely on the ‘mind’ and ‘soul’ make me suspicious. Doesn’t mean I simply dismiss those arguments, just pay attention more closely if there’s evidence elsewhere the dude has stuff to say regardless; if there’s no otherwise halo effect, Next!

  169. Peter Patton says:

    Because ‘the Mechanical Philosophy’ simply cannot make them intelligible.

    You’ve probably got something there. We’er on to Berkeley and Hume next, maybe I’ll become less despondent. OTOH, one the most awesome things I’ve ever read/seen relied on not only the soul, but also all sorts of other ‘god’ stuff – Kepler’s Astronomia Nova. Now, he was one really, really smart dude.

  170. dover_beach says:

    PP, what is ‘consciousness’ if not the mind? Moreover, how can we even account for rationality or intentionality mechanistically?

  171. dover_beach says:

    Berkerley and Hume will be interesting. You’ll, I think, find that Hume has been hyped somewhat; I never realised that his criticism of causation was so weakly argued. Anscombe described him as a “mere-brilliant-sophist” which accounts for some of his success.

  172. JamesK says:

    PP, what is ‘consciousness’ if not the mind?

    Eastern philosophy would disagree.

    ‘Consciousness’ needs a precise definition.

    Prior to any thought there is knowing without identity or self-awareness.

    One koan goes: what did your face look like before your parents were born?

  173. Peter Patton says:

    Well, I’ve only just started this, but for the minute I can get through the readings understanding ‘consciousness’ the way they use it on, say, Law & Order – being awake! 🙂 Also, being able to point to yourself and say “that’s me” and “I’m me”. I’m sure as I go on, I’ll find there’s a lot more to it – or at least other folks think there’s a lot more to it.

    As for ‘mind’, I haven’t had to get down and dirty with that one yet. So what should I expect? Do they really say that ‘mind’ just equals ‘consciousness’? If so, why the two terms? Even though I’ve got some basic neuroscience under my belt, I’ve never found it necessary to focus on the ‘mind’. The ‘brain’, ‘neuroanatomy’ and ‘physiology’ have been perfectly fine. So it’s good to have John H’s scepticism on tap for that.

  174. Token says:

    French politics is striking and dark and has elements that make it feel like a sleazy tele-drama.

    For those of you who have not kept up…

    Sarkozy was going to be beaten by the Socialist Party’s 1st choice candidate…but DSK had to drop out after being caught up with a series of rape & prostitution scandals

    Then, Sarkozy was going to be beaten by the Socialist Party’s 2nd choice candidate…until he tried to beat up the politics of division by embracing radical islamic migrants…a week before one of that community executed a rabbi and children at a school.

    Following the remark by Interior Minister Claude Gueant that “not all civilisations in the world are of equal value” a reference to Islam’s teaching on human rights and the treatment of women, Sarkozy was seen as “anti-Arab”. Meanwhile, Hollande was backing a call to remove the “r” word from article two of the constitution, which ensures equality before the law, regardless of “origin or race”. In the view of his triumphant supporters, the mere presence of the word “race” in an official document had become an incitement to racism. In short, everything seemed set for the joys to come: five years of ultra-correct progressive government.

    On a tour of the outer-city housing estates of Strasbourg, Hollande noted that unemployment in the banlieues was twice the national average and up to 40 per cent among the young. He also taunted Sarkozy for his failure to deliver the “Marshall Plan” for deprived urban areas that he had promised in 2007. Hollande even found time on March 18 to visit the Paris Book Fair and sign copies of his latest work, Changing Destiny.

    Then at 8.30 the following morning, three Jewish children were murdered in a primary school in Toulouse.

  175. JamesK says:

    Whatever Token.

    What’s important to remember is that there are far far too many Parisians in the world.

  176. twostix says:

    Gillard wants to cut the Medicare Safety Net and attacks Abbott for not cutting it.

    Cue outrage from Labo…oh…

    Extraordinary hypocrisy.

  177. Peter Patton says:

    James

    Eastern philosophy would disagree.

    I know enough people I respect who agree, and say there are amazing things that happen to them brain-wise when they get into meditation and related brain stuff.

  178. dover_beach says:

    Also, being able to point to yourself and say “that’s me” and “I’m me”

    And what does that recognition entail if not a mind.

    I’ve never found it necessary to focus on the ‘mind’. The ‘brain’, ‘neuroanatomy’ and ‘physiology’ have been perfectly fine.

    Can the ‘brain’, ‘neuroanatomy’ and ‘physiology’ give an account of why 2+2=4?

  179. Peter Patton says:

    I thought the French election was supposed to be this last weekend.

  180. dover_beach says:

    Or ‘qualia’ for that matter?

  181. Peter Patton says:

    Stephen Fry says the English must ‘give back’ the Elgin marbles to the Greek. And The Guardian thinks this is news fit to print. What’s that old saying again about luvvies and revolvers? Puke.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/apr/01/stephen-fry-elgin-marbles-greece

  182. Peter Patton says:

    No time to release the safety switch, I’m afraid, just stop him, NOW!

    “The Hellenic republic today is in heart-rending turmoil, a humiliating sovereign debt crisis has brought Greece to the brink of absolute ruin. This proud, beautiful nation for which Byron laid down his life is in a condition much like the one for which he mourned when they [the Greeks] were under the Ottoman yoke in the early 19th century,” the actor wrote.

  183. JamesK says:

    Not just eastern meditation Peter.

    Western contemplative prayer.

    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21

  184. Peter Patton says:

    James

    Oh I totally get all the prayer, singing, art, cult, and spectacle stuff. The world should be relieved that paganism survived in the Roman Catholic church. 😉

  185. Peter Patton says:

    A similar thing with the Muhammadans spending half their lives with their asses pointing to Allah, while they munch on carpet. However, I don’t think that particular tic is a positive.

  186. JamesK says:

    You’ve really gotta let go this philistine thing Peter.

  187. JamesK says:

    More on the ‘white-hispanic’ thing.

    Trayvon Martin killing raises loaded racial terms

    Over the years, Americans have become familiar with terms such as “white” and “Hispanic” and even — on government forms — the more specific “non-Hispanic white.” Now, courtesy of the mainstream media, there is a new phrase to add to our national lexicon: “white Hispanic.”

    I don’t like the sound of that. I’ve written about the thorny subjects of race and ethnicity for nearly a quarter century, and I rarely hear this term. We might have been able to see this coming given that there is no Hispanic race and Hispanics come in all colors.

    Still, mark my words. Wherever this road leads, it’s not good — not for Hispanics nor the rest of the country.

    The term — white Hispanic — emerged from the controversy over the fatal February 26 shooting of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida. Because Martin was black, and because it was initially assumed that Zimmerman was white, critics immediately charged that the shooting was racially motivated.

  188. Peter Lang says:

    Where can I ask this question so some one will see it who is able to give me a response:

    “Can anyone please refer me to where I can find an estimate of what the compliance cost of the CO2 tax and ETS will be when fully implemented to the standard that will eventually be required?. (I have not been able to find any such estimate, including on the Treasury, DRET or DCCEE web sites).

  189. JamesK says:

    A must-read very short article by P.J. Salvatore on Breitbart:

    OBAMA’S ALINSKY STRATEGY: WHO’S NEXT?

    “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.” The death of Trayvon Martin is is a tragedy–as was the death of a 6-year-old girl named Aliyah Shell (photo above), caught in the crossfire of gang violence over St. Patrick’s Day weekend in Chicago.
    But Aliyah’s story received very little coverage, despite the event being more recent than the Martin tragedy, and despite the fact that it happened in President Barack Obama’s very own Chicago on a weekend when 49 people were shot and 10 others were killed.
    No mention of Aliyah from the president. No public outpouring for a young mother who sat untangling her daughter’s hair as shots rang out. Nothing. And yet…
    “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”
    Why? Why would the president weigh in on this specific case at this specific time?
    It’s not about wrong or right. It’s not about justice. It’s not about Trayvon Martin.
    “The despair is there; now it’s up to us to go in and rub raw the sores of discontent, galvanize them for radical social change.”- Saul Alinsky
    An interesting quote to consider, from the man who shaped the minds of those who shaped President Obama.
    Now consider Obama’s former chief of staff Rahm Emanuel’s notorious statement: “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.”
    The meaning is the same

    RTWT (quite short)

  190. Winston SMITH says:

    It’s about time the whole multi culti idea was put down.
    Obviously it’s failed.
    There isn’t a western nation on the planet where radically different cultures are living in harmony.
    Segregate, and survive.

    I’m rascist?
    Sue me.

  191. Peter Patton says:

    James

    That warning about the dangers of “white Hispanics” is almost identical to what I posted above. But this problem is already so very deeply ingrained in the schools and university. Luvvie academics NEED this shit to justify their being employed at all.

  192. Winston SMITH says:

    We see it Peter Lang, but the eggheads are still getting over their piss up from last night.
    Some answers are available here.
    Others await the ingestion of Berocca, greasy burgers, and Panadiene.

  193. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B. says:

    Peter Lang, I think this is too detailed a request for Open Thread. Try Jo Nova’s blog, you might have better luck there as the focus is essentially on only climate issues. It may be no-one can give you an answer, as the question may not unpack well.

  194. JamesK says:

    Judith Sloan may well have the best answer for you Peter Lang.

    But she rarely visits the OT.

    Wait til she posts and ask her on that post thread.

  195. C.L. says:

    Blackness trumped:

    ‘’I’m good mates with Barack Obama,’’ Ms Gillard was quoted as saying.

    ‘’I tell him, ‘you think it’s tough being African-American? Try being me. Try being an atheist, childless, single woman as prime minister’.’’

    ——————————————

    In other fantastic poll news…

    The carbon tax – which starts on July 1 – is more unpopular than ever, with 60 per cent opposed, one point higher than in October, and only 36 per cent in favour.

  196. JamesK says:

    Or Alan Moran

  197. Gab says:

    Peter Lang – I was thinking along the same lines as Lizzie and jamesK. Perhaps you could shoot an email to Sinclair Davidson (at RMIT) and he could assist or ask him to forward your email to Judith Sloan.

  198. C.L. says:

    Keith Olbermann – liberal icon and man of the people:

    Alleged details surrounding Keith Olbermann’s Friday dismissal from Current TV are beginning to depict the man as quite a prima donna.

    According to Mediaite, a source at Current TV said the former Countdown host went through eight different car services while working at the network, complaining that the drivers “smelled” and “talked to him.”

  199. Gab says:

    The carbon tax – which starts on July 1 – is more unpopular than ever,

    Not true. The South Africans love it.

    AUSTRALIA’s decision last week to introduce a new 30% tax on iron ore and coal profits presents a rare opportunity for SA to attract mining investment.

    http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=168686

    via Bolt.

  200. Gab says:

    Climate Change Minister Greg Combet this morning jumped to Labor’s defence, telling ABC Radio from Berlin that the government “can’t run everything via opinion polls” and while most Australians were unhappy about the introduction of the carbon tax “we’ve just got to fight it out”.

    You keep right on “fighting it out”, Greg, right on up to election day 2013.

  201. twostix says:

    ‘’I’m good mates with Barack Obama,’’ Ms Gillard was quoted as saying.

    ‘’I tell him, ‘you think it’s tough being African-American? Try being me. Try being an atheist, childless, single woman as prime minister’.’’

    She forgot communist (H/T Kevin Rudd).

    Also “single woman”??? What happened to Tim?

  202. Token says:

    You can bet the Pinki Finki, Wrongathan Holmes and the Media Watch inquisitors have conveniently been looking into other matters and somehow missed this again (hasn’t North Korea Hour been running since 2007?)

  203. John H. says:

    Oh I totally get all the prayer, singing, art, cult, and spectacle stuff. The world should be relieved that paganism survived in the Roman Catholic church.

    Eastern meditation represent one of the best means of improving internal behaviors, far superior to anything offered by other religions because meditation was at the centre of their tradition whereas with religions generally it is peripheral.

    I encourage people to meditate simply, without any religious referents, precisely because I consider those referents to be a hindrance. What did Bodhidharma do when he came from the East? He burnt all the scriptures. Oh if only others would learn the wisdom of that.

    There are a lot of benefits to meditation, from improved immune responses to reduced stress responses, a study two weeks ago even claimed greater grey matter density, and meditation certainly helps cut down the internal chatter. For a number of months I practiced zazen and insight meditation. Wonderful benefit. Remember though, as one Buddhist master said: meditation is like using a canoe to cross the river but once you’ve crossed the river you no longer need the canoe. Or as Suzuki stated: Meditation is something artificially put on, it does not belong to the natural activity of the mind.

  204. C.L. says:

    Eastern meditation represent one of the best means of improving internal behaviors, far superior to anything offered by other religions because meditation was at the centre of their tradition whereas with religions generally it is peripheral.

    The other way of saying this – as John Paul II did about Buddhism Crossing The Threshold of Hope – is that eastern religions are essentially about navel-gazing and spiritualised egotism, whereas Christianity is about serving others. There are no Buddhist missionaries in the slums of the world. So yeah, individually, they can peace out but their societies are chaotic toilets.

  205. C.L. says:

    Socialist Dick Smith: food prices “too low.”

  206. JC says:

    ’I tell him, ‘you think it’s tough being African-American? Try being me. Try being an atheist, childless, single woman as prime minister’.’’

    Huh? Why is it tough being African American?

    The Lying Slapper seems confused. It’s not tough being any of those things as PM. What’s tough is being an inveterate liar and thinking you can get away with it. The same also applies to the Kenyan.

  207. JC says:

    Socialist Dick Smith: food prices “too low.”

    No one buy his crap food products so he wants to be protected. Lord he’s a first rate dick…. by name and nature.

  208. Gab says:

    Anyone see/hear the latest moves on emails, FB, twitter etc being under surveillance by the government to ‘catch terrorists’? I heard the tail end of the story but cannot find any reference to it in online.

  209. John H. says:

    Stop being stupid CL. I said Eastern meditation, not religion. Save you’re religious hatred for the relevant subject matter. Eastern meditation techniques are now finding very wide application across a range of cognitive and health issues. I have no concern for your inter-religious competition, that obsession that dominates the religious. To me all religion is fucking nonsense. Period.

  210. C.L. says:

    Climate Change Minister Greg Combet this morning jumped to Labor’s defence, telling ABC Radio from Berlin that the government “can’t run everything via opinion polls” and while most Australians were unhappy about the introduction of the carbon tax “we’ve just got to fight it out”.

    Hear hear.

    Go Greg.

    Keep fighting, champ. That’s the spirit.

  211. twostix says:

    Socialist Dick Smith: food prices “too low.”

    Electricity is too cheap, food’s too cheap, imported consumer goods are too cheap.

    These people really, really hate the little people and modern age don’t they?

  212. JC says:

    Combet has been picked up before for using the fight analogy over another issue.

    He’s seems to have serious anger issues.

  213. C.L. says:

    I wasn’t being “stupid,” John. I was just pointing out that eastern navel-gazing is individually efficacious (possibly) but has proved socially useless and, indeed, damaging. Tibet, for example, was a disgusting slave state before the Chinese took over. Christianity is other oriented and enlightenment is conceived of as something deriving from the service of our fellow man. Ultimate enlightenment cannot sustainably accrue via a preoccupation with the self.

    And yes, Christianity does have an ancient tradition of meditation and mysticism. It is not “peripheral.” The monasteries, anchorites and hermits of ancient Christian Europe and Africa influenced all of Christianity.

  214. JC says:

    UPDATE

    Gillard thinks she understands the problem. It’s those silly, backward voters:

    ‘’I’m good mates with Barack Obama,’’ Ms Gillard was quoted as saying.

    ‘’I tell him, ‘you think it’s tough being African-American? Try being me. Try being an atheist, childless, single woman as prime minister’.’’

    Actually, Julia, I’d vote for a 150kg, shaved-headed Morrocan lesbian with a wooden leg if she kept her promises, dismantled the disastrous carbon tax, cut government waste, put people into work, fought green extremists, defended reason, defied our new tribalism and wound back limits to our freedom to speak.

    It’s what you do that counts, not what you are

  215. Peter Patton says:

    Now isn’t that a coincidence: hideous poverty and slums in the same place and same time as armies of Roman Catholics ‘serving others’. You do the math.

    If the slum dwellers want to improve their standard of living, they might do well to tell the Roman Catholics to get on their bikes.

  216. C.L. says:

    Amazing twin girls… One is white and one is black.

    How?

    Both of their grandmothers were white and this can happen – though the odds are long.

    The million-to-one black and white twins Kian and Remee.

  217. Gab says:

    Amazing the amount of hate directed at the Catholic Church. Pity Islam doesn’t receive the same.

  218. C.L. says:

    Now isn’t that a coincidence: hideous poverty and slums in the same place and same time as armies of Roman Catholics ‘serving others’. You do the math.

    You mean that well-known hellhole called “Europe” – which was created by the Catholic Church?

    If the slum dwellers want to improve their standard of living, they might do well to tell the Roman Catholics to get on their bikes.

    Yes, why not encourage them to imitate those well-known bastions of protestant wealth and sophistication – the American bible belt and Northern Ireland? Then there is India – wasn’t it cleaned up a treat by the Church of England’s Raj? Um, no.

    And I think the old – now jettisoned – thesis about the payoff from the “protestant work ethic” is looking a little dubious nowadays. Protestant and atheist Europe is the most bankrupted geopolitical entity in history.

  219. JC says:

    Saw on one these on the road this weekend. It’s the most beautiful car ever made.

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/143874/2012-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-roadster-australian-price-487500/

  220. Peter Patton says:

    Well actually CL, let us consider two of the most striking divergences in the world history of the past 500 years.

    1. The divergence of northern vs. southern Europe

    2. The divergence between the Spanish world and the Anglosphere.

    You do the math.

  221. JC says:

    The problem [with government workers] really is the unions,” says Adrian Moore, who is Reason Foundation’s vice president for policy. “These are organizations whose mission is to oppose the taxpayers and get a better deal for their members. That’s their mission.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciqvHeBDCmY&feature=player_embedded

  222. Ivan Denisovich says:

    Now isn’t that a coincidence: hideous poverty and slums in the same place and same time as armies of Roman Catholics ‘serving others’. You do the math.

    Yeah, must be the fault of the Catholics. Especially Tony Abbott.

  223. Jarrah says:

    ““Europe” – which was created by the Catholic Church”

    What?

  224. C.L. says:

    Good call Mumble:

    I don’t believe politicians telling lies in election campaigns is particularly damaging because voters are long used to it…

    I don’t believe all this nagging that the Gillard government needs to “learn lessons” from the Queensland result.

    More power to you, Mumster.

    Julia – listen to this man. Please.

  225. Token says:

    There are no Buddhist missionaries in the slums of the world.

    Historically that was true. A new form of buddhism has developed in Taiwan as a result of the .

    The past forty years, and particularly the last decade, have seen a remarkable growth in Buddhism in Taiwan…

    The growth of Buddhism can be attributed, at least in part, to the development of socially engaged Buddhism. In the 1960s and 1970s, Buddhist groups began appearing on university campuses, championing causes which were relevant to young intellectuals such as personal morality, helping the unfortunate, and environmental protection. This message was not unique to Buddhist groups. The Taiwan Presbyterian and Catholic churches have long had strongly socially activist programmes, but both are Christian and foreign, while Buddhism, though originally from India, has a long history in Chinese society, and Mahayana Buddhism has been enriched greatly in China. In short, Buddhist ideology appealed to young university students on its own merit as well as giving them a way to assert their ethnic identity; it was also an antidote to the spiritual and ideological vacuum in Taiwan at the time.

    The Taiwanese buddhists volunteers join with the Catholic volunteers and use the well established Catholic charity networks.

    Volunteers working in Haiti celebrated Buddha’s birthday at a Catholic church, a symbol of the friendship between the two religions.

  226. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B. says:

    Also “single woman”??? What happened to Tim?

    Oooops, she’s dropped her handbag. Or maybe she’s just left it behind somewhere. Probably been picked up by her Aide de Camp.

  227. Token says:

    Now isn’t that a coincidence: hideous poverty and slums in the same place and same time as armies of Roman Catholics ‘serving others’. You do the math.

    That is rather crass Peter.

    Do you see no good coming from catholic volunteers like Mother Teresa spending a lifetime helping the poor and giving dignity to the dying in slums like Calcuta?

  228. Token says:

    CL, that rant by Mumbles was funny.

  229. C.L. says:

    What?

    You’re unfamiliar with the paramount role of the Catholic Church in forming the culture, customs, universities, erudition, law, jurisprudence, economies, nations and philosophies of Europe, Jarrah?

    Or that Europe may have been saved in toto by Pope Pius V’s Holy League in 1571? That’s right: no pope, no Manchester industrialists, no United States, no Vincent van Gogh etcetera ad infinitum. Or that another pope played the predominant role in destroying the USSR (according to no less an authority than Mikhail Gorbachev)?

    Yes: the Catholic Church created Europe the bastion of civilisation and it saved the whole shooting match on muliple occasions.

  230. . says:

    ““Europe” – which was created by the Catholic Church”

    What?

    Like it or not it is true. They ruled as overlord from 476 AD to 1524 AD.

  231. Jarrah says:

    “You’re unfamiliar with the paramount role”

    That’s a step down from your previous “created”, but I think it’s still overstating their role.

    “Europe may have been saved”

    And there’s another retreat from silliness, good for you.

    “another pope played the predominant role in destroying the USSR”

    So it wasn’t Reagan after all? I guess you’ve solved your Matthews 6:24 problem 😉

    “Yes: the Catholic Church created Europe and it saved the whole shooting match on muliple occasions.”

    No, it didn’t. It was and is a huge part of European development, but this idea of yours that it was somehow separate from and independent of and owes nothing to all the other factors that went into the creation of Europe… well, it’s just plain silly.

    If a Catholic does something, that doesn’t mean it was the Catholic Church’s doing.

  232. twostix says:

    If a Catholic does something, that doesn’t mean it was the Catholic Church’s doing.

    Those words will haunt you next time someone brings up pedo’s in the church as an attempt to bash the church.

  233. C.L. says:

    Hilarious:

    Church leaders back calls for same-sex marriage bills.

    TWENTY [“]faith leaders[“] have signed a letter urging people to declare their support for same sex marriage to two federal parliamentary inquiries on the issue.

    The move follows six Victorian Catholic bishops writing to their parishioners to tell them allowing gay couples to marry would be a ”grave mistake” and would undermine the institution of marriage.

    Signatories of the pro-gay marriage letter, organised by the gay marriage campaigners Australian Marriage Equality, include the Sydney Uniting Church minister Bill Crews, the Baptist minister Mike Hercock, the Metropolitan Community Church pastor Karl Hand and the Outreach Ministries church fellowship senior pastor Shane Anderson.

    What an embarrassing bunch of “faith leaders.”

  234. Jarrah says:

    “Those words will haunt you next time someone brings up pedo’s in the church as an attempt to bash the church.”

    Why will they haunt me? I’ve never said sexual abuse by religious leaders is the fault of their religion, nor would I. Unless the dictates of the religion/culture lead directly to abuse, like FGM or forced marriages to rapists.

  235. Pope Pius V’s Holy League

    I suspect recent pro-environmental statements, especially encouraging action to reduce greenhouse gases, don’t win over CL because they aren’t grand enough sounding. Maybe it needs to be Pope Benedict’s “League of Environmental Justice” that attends the IPCC conferences.

  236. C.L. says:

    Hey Steve.

    Julia’s going well with that clean air, huh?

  237. JC says:

    “League of Environmental Justice”

    Sounds like my Institute. JC’s Global Warming and Fair Pay Institute.

    Stepford, wtf is ‘vironmental justice? What does that even mean you oaf?

  238. JamesK says:

    Good blog post by Santorum at RedState: A Legacy for my Children

    My plans for entitlement reform would unshackle beneficiaries from the federal government, unleash the power of market competition, and empower Americans with choice and control. For example, I would reform Medicare with a premium-support program that offers beneficiaries choice and control over their healthcare options. This would transform Medicare from a program run by government to a program that empowers seniors.

    I would also block-grant Medicaid so that states have the flexibility to effectively manage their programs and offer the best options for beneficiaries. These, and other reform ideas will transform our federal entitlements from programs that breed dependency to programs that empower beneficiaries and encourage independence.

    Conservatives know that I am committed to limiting government, expanding freedom, and putting America back on a sustainable fiscal path through cutting federal spending and entitlement reform, repealing and replacing ObamaCare, instituting pro-growth tax and regulatory policies, and unleashing America’s energy and manufacturing potential for a brighter future for America.

    America faces a deficit of over $1 trillion for the fourth year in a row. The only way to truly tackle these deficits and to preserve our freedom is to reform entitlements, the fast-growing component of government spending. For the health of our economy and for the sake of our children and grandchildren, that is the path I will take.

  239. She is like a rock in a sea of unreasoning electoral and media criticism, isn’t she, CL? Quite a praiseworthy display of resolve and calm.

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