Time to bring back Malcolm Turnbull

Fisky wrote on 10 July 2013 that it was ‘time to think the unthinkable’ and restore Malcolm Turnbull as Opposition Leader prior to the 2013 election.

Regrettably I have reached the same conclusion. Tony Abbott has been an extremely effective and disciplined Opposition Leader who has worked damned hard since taking the position on 1 December 2009. I hesitate to say that he ‘deserves’ the chance to contest the next election as Opposition Leader, since no MP deserves any special consideration from the electorate.

Labor has thrown all principle out the window. They have proved willing to allow a psychopath and genuine nutter – Kevin Rudd – back into the Lodge who is an extreme risk to Australia. Every Labor MP knows the risk to Australia from a Rudd victory in the 2013 election. Yet so pathetic and desperate are they, that they have turned a blind eye to his unfitness for office and are now campaigning on a stack of lies.

To knowingly and deliberately put Rudd back in the Prime Ministership is little short of treason. They have looked behind the curtain and brought out Caligula rather than Claudius.

Unfortunately there is a real risk of Kevin Rudd being returned as Prime Minister following the upcoming election.

This is intolerable. A returned Rudd – especially with the protections he is seeking to establish to his personal occupation of the position – would be a loose cannon and would have a willing accomplice in the Australian Labor Party as he positions the Government to focus on Rudd’s interests rather than the national interest.

Rudd’s recent pronouncement on boat people and PNG will be perceived as ‘fixing’ that problem, even though he is the architect of that policy failure.

It is a mystery to me why the Australian people seem to like Rudd and dislike Abbott. But that is a fact.

Malcolm Turnbull is the only Coalition politician who can guarantee Rudd’s defeat. He has flaws – we all do – and he has made serious mistakes. But he is erudite, intelligent and genuinely a small government advocate. He has learned from those mistakes and is unlikely to repeat them.

For those who say that Rudd bettered Turnbull in 2009 and Abbott was the catalyst to Rudd’s removal – I do not think that the circumstances that then applied are now relevant.

Ideally a transition to Turnbull should occur just after Rudd announces an election date.

Yes, it is sad for Tony Abbott, a genuinely nice person. But he would be better placed as a Minister in a Turnbull Government than as a defeated Opposition Leader facing yet another three years of Opposition (presumably under some other Opposition Leader).

It is in Australia’s interests that Malcolm Turnbull be the Leader of the Liberal Party prior to the upcoming election.

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416 Responses to Time to bring back Malcolm Turnbull

  1. Splatacrobat

    Hold fast. Abbott deserves the opportunity to contest this election as leader. If he loses then and only then Turnbull can throw his hat into the ring. I’d rather lose with Abbott than panic and put Turnbull in on popularity.
    Just remember the left fear Abbott more than Turnbull hence we should ignore their preferred choice.

  2. Megan

    I’d rather see Emperor Rimmer the Despicable win the election than vote for Turnbull. I won’t vote for Rimmer either – so no $2 payment to the ALP compliments of me. I also would not be surprised to discover that Shorten has done a deal with the new Emperor for the leadership – win, lose or draw.

    I’m a fully paid-up subscriber to the Infidel Tiger Protocol. The current electorate has mostly grown up in a period of peace and prosperity. A situation any good reading of history will tell you is more an aberration than the normal state of affairs. I’d like to hang on to the lifestyle I’ve worked for but, having grown up poor working class, I know I could cope if everything went to hell in a hand-basket. It might just be time for the spoilt brats to have some financial reality hammered into their self-absorbed little heads.

  3. Leigh Lowe

    The entire premise of this post is so bloody ridiculous that I’m absolutely furious about even having to respond to it.

    Exactly.
    If it was posted over at BoltA I would immediately assume it had been penned with a view to generating web traffic.

  4. Megan

    I’d rather lose with Abbott than panic and put Turnbull in on popularity.

    Exactly, Splat.

  5. Abu Chowdah

    I think that’s right – but I’m not sure Turnbull can win from opposition.

    Look everyone: compelling evidence that Turnbull will be a softcock on illegal asylum seekers.

  6. Infidel Tiger

    This is boring.

    In more important news, isn’t it time Katter’s Australia Party replaced Bob Katter?

  7. Pedro

    Lucia I never sell out my principles, but I’m not tribally blinded. I’ve always thought Abbott an uncertain quantity as PM. he’s had the two worst govts to oppose and the last op leader with an equivalent dud to face was Fraser, and look how he turned out. I think Abbott is more fraser than howard.

  8. caveman

    Rudds fixed nothing.
    Dont despair Samuel .
    Its all an illusion.

  9. twostix

    Seriously though, reinstall this idiot and the liberal pardee’s primary vote shrivels by at least a third. That third will end up constituting both informal and labor votes.

    Samual is saying that even though the free wheeling Americans wouldn’t vote for a billionaire venture capitalist, 2013 socialist toilet Australia will definitely line up to vote for a bajillionaire goldman sachs banker who joined politics as a vanity project.

  10. H B Bear

    On most policies Turnbull’s instincts will be better than Abbotts.

    I think that’s right – but I’m not sure Turnbull can win from opposition.

    That is setting the bar pretty low.

    The real test of success of an Abbott government will be the performance of the Treasurer in curbing Abbott’s big government conservatism, something that Costello ultimately failed to do over the term of the Howard government.

  11. Infidel Tiger

    Abbott’s problem is that he genuinely wants people to like him.

    It’s a terrible trait.

  12. cynical1

    * Get rid of Gillard +
    * Get rid of Carbon tax +
    * Stop the boats +.

    Maybe Tony should retire, Kevvie has done all his work.

    Apparently, Kevvie is discussing a few further tactics to
    stop the boats, the first being PNG is renamed “Devil’s Island”……..

  13. H B Bear

    The Bolt-heads have gone bananas. 13 pages and counting.

    The Cat is only on page two here.

  14. Infidel Tiger

    The Bolt-heads have gone bananas. 13 pages and counting

    Most comments are lefties cheering.

    The left really are scum. They should all be disembowelled with a cricket stump.

  15. sdfc

    DD

    Why would Abbott be a better candidate for non-conservatives than Turnbull?

  16. You’ve lost the plot, Samuel J.

    Turnbull’s return to the Liberal leadership would guarantee a Rudd victory. He is incapable of learning from his mistakes. Recent comment he made upon the leadership is proof of this. Rudd would eat him alive just as he did last time.

    Turnbull could not contain Rudd. Abbott destroyed Rudd and Gillard, and could yet destroy Rudd again.

  17. Pedro

    IT, abbott’s problem is that outside AGW, he doesn’t convey much policy sense. In the scheme of things, stop the boats is a minor league issue. Shrinking govt is a serious issue and I think abbott is not likely to do much shrinking.

  18. H B Bear

    The ALPBC 7 o’clock news had a couple of minutes of PNG locals voicing their opinions on being used as a dumping ground. The idea that this country can or will absorb a few thousand Islamic country shoppers without it costing Australia multiple hundreds of millions of dollars is laughable.

    It has Timor Solution written all over it.

  19. Lucie

    Pedro, if you’re worried about Fraserism, the surely Turnbull would be your last choice! As Philippa says, he’s like David Cameron – and look what he’s doing to the conservative vote in the UK. Witness Ukip. Not Turnbull. Never Turnbull. Scott Morrison is looking good or the future.

  20. Pedro

    “who joined politics as a vanity project”
    I don’t think that’s correct, my feeling is that he’s an old fashioned sort of guy who trys lots of things and gets interested in govt after succeeding in a few other areas.

  21. Gab

    “who joined politics as a vanity project”

    and then promptly threw a hissy fit when he was ousted as leader and told all and sundry he was leaving politics.

  22. Tracey

    I reckon Labor’s dream scenario is for (a) them to win Govt. and (b) Kev Kardashian to lose Griffith.
    I have hope that (b) could happen but (a) won’t.
    Shit, it would be funny but.

  23. Rabz

    In the scheme of things, stop the boats is a minor league issue.

    You obviously don’t live in various outer suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne.

  24. Infidel Tiger

    Shrinking govt is a serious issue and I think abbott is not likely to do much shrinking.

    Unfortunately theres no politician yet born in Australia who is going to shrink the government. Worse still the number of Australians who actually want less government and more freedom could fill a Greyhound Bus and tour the country as sideshow freaks.

    Australia is an unflushed toilet.

  25. H B Bear

    I don’t think that’s correct, my feeling is that he’s an old fashioned sort of guy who trys lots of things and gets interested in govt after succeeding in a few other areas.

    Turnbull has always thought he should be Prime Minister of Australia. His big problem has been to convince everyone else.

  26. twostix

    If he loses then and only then Turnbull can throw his hat into the ring.

    He already had his chance.
    He was utterly useless and had the worst political instincts of any opposition leader ever and to top it off the nation disliked him because “what would he know about the average man” as my liberal voting brother lamented once when I (then a pop-leftist) was laughing at the sorry state of the Liberals polls.

    He was a joke. A total non-threat and merely a clown for the media to laugh at.

    Abbott on the other hand took Rudd’s ETS – and so Rudd – apart in three weeks then won the 2010 election only to have his win stolen when democracy was suspended in two regional seats by two vicious betrayers and community traitors.

  27. Pedro

    Lucie, Fraser was an old fashioned protectionist when the world had moved on. In some respects, esp trade, Whitlam had a superior economic policy. In what economic policies is there any evidence that turnbull is a closet labor guy? The valid complaint is that we was dumb on the ets. The other complaint here is that he is too socially liberal, to which I say, thank god (if there was one). I’m not somebody who’d prefer to fuck the economy than see two gays walk down the isle.

  28. sdfc

    What do you want to shrink? Health, education?

  29. Lucie

    Turnbull really wants to be first President. Let him wait for that.

  30. Pedro

    “You obviously don’t live in various outer suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne.”

    True, I live in inner city brisbane, but even if I did I hope I’d still understand how much more important it is to have a good economic policy.

  31. Lucie

    It’s not an either-or question, Pedro – the economy or homosexual marriage. But there’re are a lot of conservative votes to lose in AGW and “socially liberal” policy.

  32. Rabz

    True, I live in inner city Brisbane, but even if I did I hope I’d still understand how much more important it is to have a good economic policy.

    Thanks for that non-sequitur, Squire.

  33. Infidel Tiger

    What do you want to shrink? Health, education?

    Education and health are no concern of the government’s. particularly the Federal Government’s.

  34. Pedro

    sdfc, i think that we could shrink education spending and still do it better. We can get rid of a lot of green shit policies. We can spend the health dollars better. we can ditch the NBN, get out of labor market regulation. The size of govt is not just measured in dollars. Plenty of stupid regs to ditch.

  35. sunshine

    While its always pleasing to see a bully punch drunk , wobbling and about to fall, there is no joy for the left in seeing Rudd lurch so far to the right that Abbott cant match it . Well done Dr No – relentless negativity and spite ,maximum aggression in this race to the bottom . Always appealing to peoples lower instincts – its easier to wreck things than build them up . Now Rudd has called his bluff and gone there too , leaving Abbott standing with nowhere to go and nothing new to say .

  36. jupes

    What do you want to shrink? Health, education?

    Yep. As a start.

  37. H B Bear

    … two vicious betrayers, and community traitors and gutless cowards.

  38. Infidel Tiger

    Sunshine, Rudd has copied all Abbott’s policies. Shouldn’t you be crying into your fermented yak milk?

  39. Rabz

    What do you want to shrink? Health, education?

    Treasury
    “Climate change” (whether ‘buried’ in other ‘agencies’ or not)
    RET
    Clean energy fund
    HRCs

    etc, etc, etc, you authority arse licking little toad.

  40. Pedro

    Rebz, I’m guessing you don’t know the meaning of non sequitur.
    Definition of NON SEQUITUR
    : an inference that does not follow from the premises; specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent
    : a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said

  41. sdfc

    Yeah, health and education are such shithouse things to spend money on.

    Who said the right was nuts?

  42. egg_

    sunshine
    #930988, posted on July 19, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Yawn zzzzzzzz…

  43. Pedro

    “It’s not an either-or question, Pedro – the economy or homosexual marriage. But there’re are a lot of conservative votes to lose in AGW and “socially liberal” policy.”
    It is if the social conservative candidate is not strong on economic policy. I can’t think of any time that Abbott has seemed to have a real interest and understanding of economic policy. I think he’s instinctively a big govt guy. His hero is bob the grouper, a socially conservative social democrat and protectionist of the first order.

  44. Mater

    While its always pleasing to see a bully punch drunk , wobbling and about to fall, there is no joy for the left in seeing Rudd lurch so far to the right that Abbott cant match it .

    Rudd will want to watch himself. Lots of swinging voters who will need to pass Abbott as they attempt to follow Rudd to the far right.

  45. Pedro

    “Yeah, health and education are such shithouse things to spend money on.”
    So no concept of quality in spending the sdfc? Just write cheques and it’ll b great. the left are such dummies and fantasists

  46. twostix

    On most policies Turnbull’s instincts will be better than Abbotts.

    In Kmart last night I wondered why it was going to cost me another $24 to replace some shitty lightbulbs that I only replaced five months ago. Then I remembered. Thanks Malcolm you free market loving liberal you.

  47. Lucie

    OK, Pedro, but it still doesn’t make Turnbull the ideal leader. Not when he’s already had a go and was lukewarm at best; not when there are others who might be more truly conservative, including on economic policy, and non-AGW proponents.

  48. sdfc

    They need to spend money better is not much of an argument Pedro.

  49. Infidel Tiger

    They need to spend money better is not much of an argument Pedro.

    More money is always your argument. Gimme gimme gimme.

  50. Septimus

    Be cool, folks. What has been announced today will not stop the boats … they will still keep coming, probably at an increased rate … some will sink and, regrettably, more people will die. As that happens today’s announcement will be held up to deserved ridicule … it’s failure will most certainly sharpen the focus of the electorate and expose Rudd as the snake-oil salesman that he is. The coming election will be his to lose as this and his other failures, including the union corruption and the Carbon Tax and FBT fiascos, regain prominence.

  51. sdfc

    You’re going to have to be more specific IT.

  52. Rabz

    In the scheme of things, stop the boats is a minor league issue.

    Reply: You obviously don’t live in various outer suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne.

    Reply: True, I live in inner city Brisbane, but even if I did I hope I’d still understand how much more important it is to have a good economic policy.

    Pedo,

    As noted above, you’ve demonstrated your ignorance of the malignant social outcomes of labor’s open border immigration non policy.

    Unsatisfactory social outcomes will always trump marginally utilitarian economic outcomes in the greater scheme of things.

    Inner city suburbs experience the marginally utilitarian economic outcomes, but not the massively adverse social outcomes created by labor’s open door third world captive welfare constituency policy.

    Therfore, you’ve used a non-sequitur, squire, as originally, correctly observed.

  53. Leo G

    Why would Abbott be a better candidate for non-conservatives than Turnbull?

    Wrong question.
    Why would 15% of non-Coalition supporting respondents in the Reachtel poll say that they would transfer 2PP allegiance away from Labor if the Coalition dumped their leader for one with a poorer record of performance as leader?
    Just over four years ago, that group was offered a choice between Rudd and Turnbull in polling surveys and who did they prefer?
    Could they represent the same group who previously told pollsters they preferred Rudd to Gillard, and were prepared to transfer their 2PP allegiance away from Labor unless Labor dumped Gillard for Rudd?
    Labor’s diehards should know quite a bit about steering to sub-optimal outcomes- the Prisoners’ Dilemma is Labor’s bread and water.

  54. twostix

    Be cool, folks. What has been announced today will not stop the boats

    Apparently the next three months are going to be characterised by Rudd making an annoucement, some people going weak kneed and (bizarrely) demanding “14%” Turnbull be brought back, the subsequent week showing Rudd’s announcement fall in a heap, lather, rinse, repeat.

  55. egg_

    twostix
    #931066, posted on July 19, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Tick.

  56. m0nty

    The last time I had this much fun reading a Cat thread was just after you all realised that Obama was going to win last year. Thanks Samuel J, will read again! 😀

  57. Paul

    Turnbull the Globalist sock-puppet would be the final nail in coffin of democracy and sovereignty in this country.

  58. Arnost

    Coming late to the party. I agree with the vast majority of the sentiment here.

    Turnbull and Rudd are two leftard narcissistic peas in a pod. They don’t give a shit for anyone or anything else apart from themselves.

    I agitated when Turnbull proposed to support the ETS – organizing all like minded folk to send emails to the Lib machine that they would vote informal / independent in the lower house and National on the Senate. They got the message then.

    I’m gonna do the same if there is hint of replacing Abbott. [any lib machine people – get the message now?]

    SamJ – grow up! Sometimes you have to burn the field to the ground to get a revitalization.
    You have to burn to get the Phoenix to rise out of the ashes. You need someone to burn the Labor party to the ground. You need someone to pound them and smash them even when unconscious … You need to destroy them utterly. And only then will you get a worthy alternative party emerge – one that is independent of the unions, independent of the greens / nihilistic philosophy, independent of the corrupted anything it takes mentality prevalent today…

    Turnbull will not have the balls to do this. But Abbott will. And this must happen.

  59. Wong

    Malcolm failed as leader,why bring him back.

  60. Samuel J

    I utterly detest the smug, smarmy, oleaginous, odious, unctuous, incompetent, narcissistic, waffling, traitorous, jumped up, parasitic, self-important, utterly useless, embarrassingly uncool, pedestrian, warmy leftist dickhead.

    I think this is quite an apt description of Kevin Rudd.

    Twostix – as Sinc mentioned, I always thought Romney was a dud. I said that the GoP ensured their own defeat by selecting him.

    Abu: a promotion! I would only be worthy of 3rd secretary

  61. JC

    The last time I had this much fun reading a Cat thread was just after you all realised that Obama was going to win last year. Thanks Samuel J, will read again!

    No spite there, hey, Fatboy. Go eat a dozen donuts and piss off.

  62. JC

    SJ

    I agree with you. In fact I was the first one here to say that I thought Abbott was unable to get over the line after watching his performance of the 7.30 Report.

  63. Samuel J

    monty – not only did I predict an Obama victory, I was right about the number of electoral votes he won.

    For those who say it is unprincipled to change leaders – why? It might be unwise, a bad decision, courageous etc. But not unprincipled. Any party can change its leader. The change from Rudd to Gillard (and back) was not unprincipled. It the former it was a bad decision, in the latter a necessary decision.

    Monty – you can see my prediction from 31 October 2012 here.

  64. JC

    I read a lot of comments here which appear to me to suggest people are married to their position. That’s trader lingo about traders unable to read the market and locked in to their view.

    The objective is to remove these louts and takeover the treasury benches. I couldn’t give a shit if Satan was the lead candidate as long at the Liars Party was thrown out on their ear. The rest is mere detail.

    I know a lot of people here don’t like Turnbull, but I reckon he would be much more of a small government dude than Abbott.

    The objective is to win and nothing else matters.

  65. Gab

    I know a lot of people here don’t like Turnbull, but I reckon he would be much more of a small government dude than Abbott.

    The objective is to win and nothing else matters.

    I love Morrison. Think he’d made a damn fine leader, better than Abbott but I still believe it’s a mistake to change leaders this close to an election for the Libs. It would ensure a win to Labor.

  66. wreckage

    And it’s SDFC with the ol’ “more money means more quality” argument for government spending.

    Never worked before.

  67. Abu Chowdah

    twostix
    #931066, posted on July 19, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Tick.

    Egg. Try quoting the post you are commenting on. The # plus number thing is a pain, and so I move on never knowing what you are referring to. But I am grown olde and not accustomed to this internet thing, so maybe I am the only one who dislikes the numbers thing.

    Samuel: you’re promotion was well-deserved. As you know all DFAT embassy staff exist as a life support unit for the promotion of the HOM (and so would attached agencies, if the old drunk could bend them to his will), and your efforts have been noted.

  68. Gab

    so maybe I am the only one who dislikes the numbers thing.

    No, I agree with you. I never scroll up to see what the original quote was. Can’t be bothered.

  69. Samuel J

    JC is right. The principal objective must be to win the election. There is little doubt that the chance under Turnbull is significantly greater than under Abbott.

    For those who (like Gab) think it is too late – what about Bob Hawke and Kevin Rudd? Last minute changes which have changed the game.

    It isn’t too late. It isn’t unprincipled. It is a sensible and strategic decision. Don’t be fooled into thinking it is only Labor supporters who will vote for Turnbull (they will – many hate Rudd). A lot of swinging voters will prefer Turnbull to Rudd and I don’t see many Liberal supporters switching to Rudd.

    For those who just want the people to suffer three more years of Rudd – that was the Labor way of doing things from 1949 to 1972. If you want to be in Opposition for a very long time, just keep telling yourselves to ignore polling and stick with Tony Abbott.

    It’s not about faith and principles and ethics etc. It’s about winning Government and having the opportunity to implement a program. You won’t get that with a Rudd Government.

  70. JC

    Yea, I know Gab there are risks involved and I also think Morrison is the guy. The objective is to take these frauds out at the next election.

  71. Samuel J

    You make a fine interlocutor Abu.

  72. Abu Chowdah

    What? I didn’t say you were “dead to me” and yet I get the Catty response!

  73. Abu Chowdah

    Besides, I am sure you were never seduced by HOM pheromones, but you know I’m right: that’s the way embassies work, especially for ambitious newly-minted HOMs. None of them get promoted by allowing the sun to shine too brightly on their staff.

  74. egg_

    Egg. Try quoting the post you are commenting on. The # plus number thing is a pain, and so I move on never knowing what you are referring to.

    Really just feedback to the poster, Abu.
    If I wish to expand on the poster’s comment I quote, as above, but will take onboard so as not to create “noise” in the thread, thanks.

  75. Abu Chowdah

    Egg #8675309:

    Okay, thanks.

  76. Samuel J

    The HOM is dead! Long live the HOM!

  77. m0nty

    Samuel J: I was talking about the commenters, not you.

  78. Gab

    There is little doubt that the chance under Turnbull is significantly greater than under Abbott.

    So you say.

    For those who (like Gab) think it is too late – what about Bob Hawke and Kevin Rudd? Last minute changes which have changed the game.

    Bob Hawke? I suppose the same could happen now, except that was Labor.
    Look at the polls I posted when Malcolm was in charge…the same would happen again if the Libs went back to MT.

    Didn’t the polls say Howard would loose the election in 1996?

    It isn’t too late. It isn’t unprincipled. It is a sensible and strategic decision. Don’t be fooled into thinking it is only Labor supporters who will vote for Turnbull (they will – many hate Rudd). A lot of swinging voters will prefer Turnbull to Rudd and I don’t see many Liberal supporters switching to Rudd.

    And I don’t see many Labor supporters and swinging voters switching to the Liberals under MT. After all, the biggest complaint is the Libs “have no policy”. Pfft. many Labor supporters hate Rudd? Then why the poll bounce?

    t’s not about faith and principles and ethics etc.

    it is about principles. Look at the 2010 result. As Austraya’s First FEMALE PM, the result should have been more in favour of gillard. She should have romped it in. It wasn’t. Why? Because many people in Labor and those swing voters were pissed off that their elected PM was turfed out. So he gets reinstated and many Laborites feel satisfied that an error has been redressed. People do have principles. Not everyone behaves like a Labor pollie.

  79. Abu Chowdah

    Samuel: awesome eye-catching title, but I wonder did anyone ever read it? What did they say… you had to put blood, death or sex in the title to get anyone’s attention when cabling from a shithole.

  80. JC

    Hey Monst…

    What do you think of The Little Turd’s refugee policy? Like it?

  81. truth

    Your post is subversive—and playing right into Labor’s hands-=–and makes me feel like discounting everything you write.

    Rudd will love you —your response is right on cue–exactly as he would order.—totally sickening.

    The Turnbull popularity is a total Labor construct designed to scuttle the opponent they really fear—Tony Abbott.

    People who have nothing but contempt for the Coalition and will never vote for them in a million years, claim they’ll vote for the Coalition if Turnbull is leader—just to damage Abbott.

    It’s a Labor scam, for heaven’s sake designed to destabilize the Coalition—and you play right into their hands.

    Have you forgotten the Godwin Grech debacle—and Turnbull’s complete inability to cut through with any policy—his stumbling and stuttering, and inability to complete a sentence without multiple backtracks??

    Of course the media flirt and play footsie with him now, because they know they can get him to say things they can use against Tony Abbott.

    They’re leading him up the garden path on Labor’s behalf.

    How can you join their ranks, unless you’re a closet Ruddite?

    You must know should the worst befall us, and your kind of destabilization works —and MT became leader —the MSM would turn on a dime—they would crucify him.

    Thenceforth, Turnbull would be known as the Goldman Sachs candidate, and the HIH affair would be trawled through etc etc—they would make mincemeat of him.

    When did he ever have decent polls before the media discovered they could use him to stop the one they really fear , Tony Abbott.

    MT would be Rudd-lite—bipartisan on everything except the NBN, as he was trying to be when we all emailed in to beg TA to run against him, when he wanted to give Rudd a big win on his CPRS.

    There would be no Coalition opposition.

    If Turnbull became Coalition leader ,I’ll either seek out an independent who doesn’t award preferences, and failing that, I WILL NOT VOTE—NEVER.

  82. “Truth” has hit the nail on the head. It would be the Coalition putting up a rich toff, as bad as what happened when Downer was briefly opposition leader. Of course the fellators in the media would ignore how much the Rudd family is worth, because that’s how they roll, but the damage would be done. I’ll say it again, Samuel – you’ve jumped the shark.

    The other problem with Turnbull is that he favours an Australian republic, which would make the current problem we have even worse.

  83. Cold-Hands

    Turnbull is only popular because the MSM is pushing him to destabilise the LNP. When he was leader his polling was abysmal; if he regained the leadership, the MSM would switch from fawning to rabid in the blink of an eye and his popularity would plummet. The Member for Goldman Sachs lacks the patience, discipline and political smarts to be an effective leader- and his policies alienate the conservative base. Ignore the MSM and their divisive tactics, Abbott and his team deserve their opportunity to take down Kokoda Kev and his corrupt and incompetent rabble.

  84. Abu Chowdah

    Perturbed, I hinted at the same issue in my early response. Turnbull would be painted as a be-monocled Monopoly money bags, while the Toad would skate home free.

  85. Samuel J

    Turnbull is in poverty compared with the Rudd family. Mr and Mrs Rudd are the real money bags.

  86. Gab

    Bonza post, Samuel. Cleared the cobwebs.

  87. Abu Chowdah

    I agree Gab. This has been a fun thread.

  88. m0nty

    Was there a bet on between Fisky and Samuel J?

  89. Abu Chowdah

    The scrappy threads are always the best. Get the blood flowing!

  90. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “If Turnbull became Coalition leader ,I’ll either seek out an independent who doesn’t award preferences, and failing that, I WILL NOT VOTE—NEVER.”

    If Samuel J ever again commences a thread with the likes of

    “Fisky wrote on 10 July 2013 that it was ‘time to think the unthinkable’ and restore Malcolm Turnbull as Opposition Leader prior to the 2013 election.

    Regrettably I have reached the same conclusion.”

    I WILL NOT Catallax EVER AGAIN. I’ll probably have to leave the country too.

  91. truth

    Your suggestion certainly is almost as unprincipled as Labor’s embrace of Rudd.

    It’s a move borne out of blind thoughtless panic.

    What evidence do you have other than the propaganda put about by the Coalition’s sworn enemies —Labor’s MSM faction—as part of their relentless campaign for the last four years almost, to rid Kevin Rudd of the only threat there’s been against him other than from his own party since 2007.

    You can’t really believe that the manufactured approval for MT that Labor’s MSM journalists whack TA over the head with every week or so , is actually true..

    I have never seen such a disgusting and baseless capitulation.

    I agree wholeheartedly with all you say about Rudd—but on Turnbull, I believe you’ve been totally sucked in by the Coalition-hating, Rudd-loving MSM journalists.

    They did exactly the same thing to destabilize John Hewson for God’s sake—led Bronwyn Bishop up the garden path until she thought she could be PM—just to damage Hewson.—and you join them!!

    You say Turnbull is erudite and intelligent…but so is Tony Abbott—and he has certainly been able to articulate the Coalition policies infinitely better than the bumbling, backtracking Turnbull.

    By the time Turnbull has finally finished a sentence, all sense of what point he’s making is entirely lost.

    I don’t think it’s his erudition that you’ve been sucked in by—but his urbanity—his pose—but appreciation of that soon wore off back then when he started to stumble around and copy Rudd’s policies.

    And MT has been a subtle destabilizer , knowingly and deliberately playing into the MSM enemy hands ever since he decided to stay in politics after losing the leadership.

    He is in cahoots with Rudd’s MSM facilitators—– demonstrated as recently as this week and the last time he was on Q&A—and every time he;’s on Q&A or anything ABC—where he only goes in order to bask in the flattery he gets from those who want the party he’s squatting in to lose—and want Rudd and Labor in power.

    And by the way, Turnbull just loves the ABC—thinks it’s unbiased, and just a simply wonderful news service.

    This is a man very susceptible to flattery, as Labor’s ABC has discovered.

    He would have voted for the carbon tax for goodness sake—and the ETS—even though it had been found to be fatally flawed —-not only by Clive Spash who was then drummed out of the CSIRO for dissenting from the government line—- but by Roger Pielke Jr of Colorado State, who wrote a scathing research paper on it.

    Malcolm Turnbull is the Malcolm Fraser candidate.—and the Rudd candidate.

    The thought that you would try to start this subversive movement now, just makes my blood run cold—sickening , gutless in the extreme.

    The Liberal Party and the Coalition itself would be finished if you succeed in this destabilization and they panic and drop their bundle and instal Turnbull—curtains for the Coalition[LNP]—and decades of Rudd and Labor.

    To vote for Turnbull to replace Abbott is to go to the dark side —to capitulate to Rudd in a madness we expect only from him and his groupies.

    Unbelievable!!

  92. Lloyd

    Abbott does deserve an opportunity to contest the next election as Leader. SJ is in error. It is not an opportunity granted by the electorate. It is one granted by the Parliamentary Liberal Party. How many sitting Coalition MPs owe their current position to Abbott? Prior to the late 2009 leadership challenge they were facing electoral ruin.
    Moreover, for the first time in living memory we may have a PM who would be wholesome role model for our nation. A volunteer surf life saver and firefighter, a fitness fanatic, a scholar, family man. A manifestly imperfect man who nevertheless tries to be guided by his moral compass. He seems like an ordinary bloke who does extraordinary things.
    Yes, he walks like he has a long stick up his arse. So what? Yes his media performances sometimes suck but he’s improved a lot in the past year. His set speeches are particularly good, at least for him. They feel authentic probably because he writes his own material.
    He’s a different man to the bloke who ousted Turnbull. He’s grown into the job in a way that his predecessor never did.
    Think again about how much shit he’s copped from all sides over the past few years. I want the guy to win if only so I can see the look on his detractors’ faces, especially fuckwits such as Riley and Marr. I want him to win so he can sack leeches and spivs such as Flannery. I want him to win so he has a fair shot at demonstrating to the Australian public that just about everything they’ve been told about Abbott is bullshit.
    And to be honest, I want him to win to validate my own judgment about him and his character because I had him picked as a winner years ago. So too, I suspect, did Howard.
    /end rant

  93. Samuel J

    The thought that you would try to start this subversive movement now, just makes my blood run cold—sickening , gutless in the extreme.

    I’m not starting any subversive movement. It is just a blog.

    BTW, I’m voting Liberal irrespective of whether Tony Abbott or Malcolm Turnbull is leader. I think Tony Abbott will win and be an excellent PM. I am merely pointing out that there is a significant risk of Rudd winning. Am I wrong in this assessment? Perhaps. But if Tony Abbott is leader and Rudd wins the election I trust and hope that apologies will be forthcoming because that would be a cataclysmic event. But please don’t suggest I’m some sort of traitor for asking a difficult question.

  94. truth

    JC…

    What on earth makes you think that MT , who wanted a humungous big CPRS scheme , with the massive bureaucracy that entails—- is a ‘small government dude’??.

    Don’t forget , he wanted to join the Labor party not so long ago—he’s more in sync with them than he is with the Libs.

    Why do you think silly old Malcolm Fraser , a big government afficionado, wanted the Coalition to instal Turnbull?

    And what makes you think the Treasury benches in his hands would be better than in Tony Abbott’s .

    With the reputation of Goldman Sachs around the world, MT would be much more likely to be all for crony capitalism than for responsible small government.

    You appear to be swallowing whole Labor’s propaganda about TA and his economic literacy—but he has an economics degree and a law degree .

    You also seem to have succumbed to the fairytale the polls tell you of MT’s popularity.

    Have you actually forgotten his miserable polls when he actually was the opposition leader.

    Just what makes you think they wouldn’t revert , as soon as he was the one opposing Labor?

    The aim of the MSM is to get Labor re-elected.

  95. Samuel J

    By the way, the reason I have a plague doctor profile picture is that the country is now under a plague.

  96. Viva

    I don’t want to rely on faith. I would prefer to rely on data.

    There speaks the voice of the age we live in. Those without faith are the first to panic when the going gets tough. Hang in there all you Gen Xers and Gen Ys bringing up the rear. All will be well.

  97. Fisky

    Shit! It looks like I’ve been beaten on this one.

    Congratulations, SamuelJ!

  98. Helen Armstrong

    Truth says it all.

    If Labor (sic) had a leader of the type such as Hawke and Liberals swapped from Abbott to Turnball to beat him, I would vote for Hawke.

    Morrison is the man of the future, Abbott is the man of the hour. Turnball is yesterday.

  99. Rabz

    I think this is quite an apt description of Kevin Rudd.

    Agreed. They both fit the description, although I probably detest Rudd slightly more.

  100. Tel

    * Get rid of Gillard +
    * Get rid of Carbon tax +
    * Stop the boats +.

    Maybe Tony should retire, Kevvie has done all his work.

    As the only honest politician once explained, “After the election we will just change everything.”

    Remember how Rudd was a proud fiscal conservative? A few hundred billion dollars in debt later and he is sternly defending our borders. Play acting. He doesn’t mean it.

  101. Popular Front

    I am merely pointing out that there is a significant risk of Rudd winning.

    I just don’t see it that way. As I said yesterday, in order to win, the Rudd rabble have to take seats off the Coalition and that’s unlikely. Lyne and New England (where I am) are going to return to the Coalition. Dobell and Fisher probably also. Add to that a swing of under 5% against the ALP and you can add at least another half dozen or more seats lost. Labor are going to lose; the only question that remains is by how much?

  102. Tintarella di Luna

    Samuel J

    Are you saying that just because the Labor party is happy to return to their own dog’s vomit that the Libs should too? That’s taking me-tooism over the hill and far away.

    The Libs have to stay the course hold their nerve show they are a united team behind a decent family man who loves his country and its people all of the a man who is the real deal not a confected showpony. (my comma key doesn’t work so apologies to the grammarians here)

  103. Septimus

    Well, this post has certainly been a lively one, eh?

    Congratulations Samuel J. ‘Done fine, played strong’*

    Your turn again now, Fisky. 🙂

    *h/t Jack Gibson

  104. Leo G

    Thither our path lies; wind we up the heights:
    Wait ye the warning?
    Our low life was the level’s and the night’s;
    He’s for the morning.
    Step to a tune (comma) square chests (comma) erect each head (comma)
    ‘Ware the beholders!
    This is our master (comma) famous calm and dead (comma)
    Borne on our shoulders.

    Robert Browning re a Grammarian’s Funeral -done to death by Metooists (who iPad asserts are Methodists)

  105. Tintarella di Luna

    Leo G (comma) very funny (comma) wish I’d thought of that (comma) but thank goodness you did

  106. Robbo

    For God’s sake Samuel J stop wanking so much because it’s making you horribly stupid and, even worse, horribly forgetful. Just where were you when Turnbull was Leader of the Liberal Party? The guy was hopeless and out of his depth and finally his colleagues recognised that and sent him packing. Since that time Tony Abbott has rebuilt the fortunes of the Coalition and the last thing they need to do now is pay attention to panic stricken tossers like you Sammy boy who think the sky is about to fall in because that little tosser Rudd has reemerged from under his rock. I strongly urge you to confine your posts from now on to subjects you know something about – and stop spanking your monkey so much.

  107. Makka

    “The left really are scum. They should all be disembowelled with a cricket stump.”

    Just spat my coffee all over the bloody screen, TYVM!

  108. Makka

    One thing I will say about the Turnbull for Leader meme.

    Tony Abbott is such a fair dinkum bloke and genuinely good person, if the LNP thought that his chances of winning were too slim and MT’s much greater, he would handover the leadership- like gentleman he is.

  109. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    (my comma key doesn’t work so apologies to the grammarians here)

    Tintarella di Luna, will these see you through?

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  110. Helen Armstrong

    Yes, get your heads out from under your skirts, you can’t shoot charging Zulus blind folded or until they are in range. Hold your fire, people, hold your fire.

    When the election date is announced, disciplined fire. Twitter, letters, comments, away out from the cat citadel and do glorious battle. Join up with the coalition, lib’s or national (ALP too,) and get the talking points, and argue the issues. Then, when we win we can claim it as ours, should we loose without doing this we can blame ourselves, for not doing it.

  111. JC

    Truth

    Turnbull said recently that cap&trade works in theory but shows evidence of being abysmal in practice and consequently supports direct action because that is how the bulk of the world is dealing with things.

    There would be no with turnbull on that front .

  112. Makka

    “The objective is to win and nothing else matters.”

    That’s JC’s comments. Regrettably I can’t disagree with him.

    There is far too much at stake and Abbott knows that better than anyone here. I have enormous respect for this man, far more than I do for many of my fellow Australians – so shallow they cannot see his many qualities. Abbott would make an outstanding PM. I’m not yet entirely convinced a change is absolutely necessary. I detect the luvvie media starting to harden in their scrutiny of the smiling turd. With more momentum that will unnerve him, make him appear more erratic in public- the real Kev. But, “whatever it takes” MUST be the attitude of the Liberal’s at this election. If securing Govt requires a change of Leader , then THAT’s what it takes.

  113. JC

    Lets not be under any illusions. Tony Abbott has been the most successful opposition leader in this country’s history.

    Look at what he’s getting those frauds to do

    They are saying they will implement a boaties policy leagues tougher than what Howard ever went for.

    Howard was a pussy in comparison.

    This is hysterical.

    I just have very serious doubts on Tony’s ability to win.

    It’s a different game.

  114. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “For God’s sake Samuel J stop wanking so much because it’s making you horribly stupid and, even worse, horribly forgetful.”

    Thank you Robbo, he badly needs a smack across the chops.

    “The left really are scum. They should all be disembowelled with a cricket stump.”

    That’s what I’m trying to say!

    Instead of giving the doctor’s wives succour by reassuring them Malcolm and Lucy know and care, whilst dishing them up as the perfectly packaged win for the barbarians, Samuel J (and Fisky) ought to be out the front wielding their sharpest pens and most intimidating prose, leading the cricket stump brigade forward and crying “Garn ya mongrels, git this up yas ya bastards!”

  115. Infidel Tiger

    I see JC hasn’t learnt from his unfortunate history of backing political duds.

    JC was this sites biggest supporter of Obama, Romney and now… Turnbull. At least Obama got elected i suppose.

  116. Leo G

    Yes, get your heads out from under your skirts, you can’t shoot charging Zulus blind folded or until they are in range. Hold your fire, people, hold your fire.

    Muzzle those breech loaders!

  117. egg_

    Infidel Tiger
    #931595, posted on July 20, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Next, he’ll be scoffing doughnuts… 😉

  118. JC

    Fine then be powerless and allow this present scum to destroy this country.

    That’s what you’re happy with.

    I’m not.

    You realise they are wrecking the place , right. Any political party that forms a coalition with the human garbage … the greens …. deserves oblivion.

    And I don’t give a shit who sends them there.

  119. Makka

    I.T. , this is about risk management. Abbott’s abilities and qualities speak for themselves. he is outstanding , to you and me and many.

    The problem is that too many Australian’s have been dumbed down sufficiently enough to not value Abbott sufficiently. It’s the electorate that is all fkd up here IMO. Thank you Big Brother, The Block, The Voice, X factor , Home and Away , Masterchef , Sunrise, ALPBC, Education system, Gen Y etc etc…… and those that bring them to us.

  120. egg_

    I detect the luvvie media starting to harden in their scrutiny of the smiling turd.

    As predicted, especially after his most recent stunt.
    He’s obviously obsessed with outdoing Abbott.

  121. JC

    IT

    The Kenyan ran as Clinton lite . I was fine with over McCain .

    I gave the fucker three months.

    Romney would have been a decent prez.

    I support Morrison.

    Get back to bed. It’s far too early for you to be up and you’re not thinking straight.

  122. dover_beach

    Turnbull will not poll better than Abbott against Rudd.

  123. Leo G

    What’s the disorder whereby a person repeatedly acts as if he has the solution to policy disasters when, in truth, in each case he was the cause- Munchausen by Policy perhaps?
    Rudd’s, and in some cases Turnbull’s, advocates want us to accept that voters are so attracted to Rudd’s confabulations- no matter how blatantly orchestrated- ignore the incoherence, the internal inconsistencies,

  124. Tintarella di Luna

    But if Tony Abbott is leader and Rudd wins the election I trust and hope that apologies will be forthcoming because that would be a cataclysmic event. But please don’t suggest I’m some sort of traitor for asking a difficult question.

    You deserve no apologies from anyone because those here who have whacked you good believe in principles and morality not ‘whatever it takes’ and to go down with honour is far better and deserves no apology at all

  125. Tintarella di Luna

    Tintarella di Luna, will these see you through?

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    A feline gentleman Mick you are you are thank you but when I run out of yours I’ll just use the semi-colon; frigging hell now the damn full stop doesn’t work either-I am now grammatically-challenged – a challenge too far but will press on nonetheless:

  126. Yon Toad

    You sell Tony Abbott and the electorate short Samuel. Mr Rein thinks he can sell the same bullshit, the same way that he did in 2007. It ain’t gonna work!

  127. Infidel Tiger

    Munchausen by Policy perhaps

    Magnificent!

  128. Megan

    Tinta, are those key failures on a machine of the Apple variety?* I’ve lost the use of the left shift key on mine…I’ll swap you a mixed bucket of fullstops and commas for a few capital letters.

    The mental strain of hitting the right shift to capitalise is beginning to have a negative effect. I imagined someone thought Turnbull would be better than Tony.

    * Could be a software issue.

  129. Andrew

    They won’t put Turnbull in now because a) It is only a month out until the election and b) There is still a strong dislike for Turnbull internally.

    I do agree that Turnbull would electorally be much better than Abbott.

  130. Andrew

    Abbott’s problem is that he genuinely wants people to like him.

    It’s a terrible trait.

    That is how democracy works, Einstein.

    TruthTurnbull said recently that cap&trade works in theory but shows evidence of being abysmal in practice and consequently supports direct action because that is how the bulk of the world is dealing with things.There would be no with turnbull on that front .

    He also said that he was a strong supporter of the ETS, nuff said. Minchin says that the Coalition should not support an ETS, despite the result. I don’t think they can go to another election with that platform again if we lose the election. Just like Labor made a mistake trying to attack the GST in the 2001 election. That is why we must keep Abbott as leader because if we change to Turnbull, we have two candidates and the two major parties who support an ETS. Is that a good alternative? Hell no.

  131. Infidel Tiger

    That is how democracy works, Einstein

    In that case the Libs should ask Hugh Jackman or Ashton Agar to be leader. Everybody likes them.

  132. Pickles

    Abbo’s a Marathon Man. He’ll keep running, pedaling and punching on day after day. Get used to it.

  133. Andrew

    In that case the Libs should ask Hugh Jackman or Ashton Agar to be leader. Everybody likes them.

    Great straw man, IT /sarc

  134. Leo G

    Abbott’s problem is that he genuinely wants people to like him.

    … but too many voters genuinely think Rudd is like what Rudd thinks he is like- The Vegemite Kid, “bright as bright can be”.

  135. Infidel Tiger

    Andrew, Tone needs to revel in the fact that some people hate. He needs to let it arouse him and harness that feeling in his loins.

    If the right type of people hate you, you are on the right track. Any day Abbott is in power and a hundred thousand leftists aren’t protesting in the streets is another day he has failed.

  136. Andrew

    Andrew, Tone needs to revel in the fact that some people hate. He needs to let it arouse him and harness that feeling in his loins.

    If the right type of people hate you, you are on the right track. Any day Abbott is in power and a hundred thousand leftists aren’t protesting in the streets is another day he has failed.

    I agree with you IT and as much as you hate Howard, you would have to admit that he was quite good in that respect with the lefties who thought he was an evil, neoliberal, war criminal.

  137. Nanuestalker

    So it’s official, Fisk, Samuel & JC have jumped the couch.

  138. Infidel Tiger

    Howard was okay apart from making 3 or 4 million of the most law abiding Australians criminal, paving the way for the Greenfilth, nanny state and rapidly expanding the welfare state.

  139. Pickles

    Thankfully the only ones wavering are a few bloggers and a few earnest young ones who haven’t had their firsty yet.

  140. Not the UK here please

    Having MT lead the Libs to make them more competitive (let’s just assume the premise is correct) and win the elections would make Australia become what the UK is now, with the Conservative Party led by David Cameron. No thanks.

  141. Armadillo

    Abbott just needs to keep doing exactly what he has been doing. Trying to pretend to be “Mr Popularity” is bullshit. At the end of the day voters just want stability. When he does win this election, people will warm to Abbott. My late father picked him out as “the one” well before the 2007 election. Every time he appeared on the TV my father would say “that bloke there will be best PM this nation has ever seen”. I used to laugh. Not so any more. Some people (my father included) have a natural gift of seeing through the hubris. Patience.

  142. Andrew

    Thankfully the only ones wavering are a few bloggers and a few earnest young ones who haven’t had their firsty yet.

    I am not wavering at all!

  143. candy

    Armadillo, I think you are so right there. There’s no point Mr Abbott pretending to be something he’s not. What he is, is just the ticket for conservatives and so many of us support him and appreciate all the hard work he has done over 3 years to get to this point. And he’s much better looking that malcolm Turnbull.

  144. stackja

    Fairfax radio Sydney commentator said that this post was a sign of panic by the Liberals.
    The ALP will be very happy with that kind of talk.
    Samuel J should be careful in the future about giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

  145. egg_

    Abbott just needs to keep doing exactly what he has been doing.

    Yup, the only thing that’s changed is that KRudd’s had a poll bounce, as expected… and he is also expected to slide… (by most pundits, presumably).

  146. Andrew

    The poll bounce has been expected, but the lack of response from the Coalition and Rudd’s ability to (rightly or wrongly) neutralise the main issues attack Gillard on is what is surprising and worrying.

  147. Oh come on

    No. No. Good god no. Switch to Turnbull before the election? Insanity. As I’ve said before, doing so sounds to me like one of the very few ways the coalition could lose the next election in a landslide. Replacing Abbott with Turnbull would simply validate the long-trumpeted ALP message that the coalition has no policies, is simply the party of negativity desperately trying to get a new act in Rudd’s post-negativity political paradigm. More importantly, the coalition’s supposed to be a conviction party. Such a blatant display that they’ve gone wobbly in the face of Rudd would be fatal.

    Sure, I think we need to re-evaluate Turnbull’s political prospects going into the future. There’s a very good chance that what we saw from him when he was opposition leader was far from his best. But having him contest the next election would be a grave political miscalculation that. electorally, would set the opposition back to where it was when Brendan Nelson was in charge. A suicidal move.

  148. dd

    More importantly, the coalition’s supposed to be a conviction party. Such a blatant display that they’ve gone wobbly in the face of Rudd would be fatal.

    Bingo.

    electorally, would set the opposition back to where it was when Brendan Nelson was in charge. A suicidal move.

    and again.

  149. Tel

    Samuel J should be careful in the future about giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

    I don’t mind giving people comfort, the ALP need all the comfort they can get. They are not my enemy, merely people who have yet to recognize their mistakes.

    More importantly, the coalition’s supposed to be a conviction party. Such a blatant display that they’ve gone wobbly in the face of Rudd would be fatal.

    I think I already said that, but agreed at any rate.

  150. Oh come on

    Let’s say the coalition loses the next election. If Abbott leads them into the loss (which is possible but unlikely), his political career will most likely be over. Can’t see him not going the way of Hewson – unloseable election and all that. If he decides to stay on in parliament, it won’t be as leader. In such a situation, the coalition will greatly benefit from a talented senior politician like Turnbull on the front bench – possibly as leader – to be as effective an opposition as possible. This means that Rudd will get another 3 year term to remind the electorate that they were hoodwinked by Rudd 2.0, who (as we all know here) is actually no different from he who had ta zip. Sure, we may all have to endure three more years of Labor pains, but by the end of their term they’d be facing an electoral apocalypse that would make the averted Gillard 2013 thrashing look like a squeaker in comparison. A loss that could well result in the end of them as a significant political force in Australia.

    If Turnbull led them into a loss (which would be a virtual certainty), Turnbull’s career would almost certainly be over. He’d be indelibly branded a loser. And Abbott would be damaged goods – they couldn’t go back to him, even if he wanted the job, which he probably wouldn’t.

    Sure, if re-elected, a Rudd government will self-destruct on its own in any circumstance, but the coalition would be greatly diminished in terms of talent and electoral stature if Turnbull led them to certain loss in 2013. They would start their term of opposition in the weakest state imaginable.

  151. Oh come on

    I think I already said that

    Good for you, Tel. You may be amazed to hear that some may not be interested in spending the 15-20mins reading through the 400+ responses this thread has provoked before posting their own.

  152. Dee Clarke

    I think you underestimate Tony Abbott. This is a man who is a long distance cyclist, a member of a lifesaver’s club, a volunteer fire fighter, a Rhodes Scholar, and an experienced political party leader. He hasn’t got to where he is without ability.

    I believe he is playing a long game. He, unlike Rudd, who is like a mouse on a wheel, will stand back and observe as Rudd self-destructs as his wheel gets faster and faster in the lead up to the election. Tony Abbott will wait his chance then when all about Rudd is chaos he will step up and be the voice of reason.

    There is no way Malcolm Turnbull is half the man Tony Abbott is. He is a smooth talker and intelligent in his own subject areas but he is not a match for Kevin Rudd. I don’t think Malcolm understands the likes of Kevin Rudd – Tony Abbott does.

    Rudd has used all his amunition now – the only thing left for Labor is to get down and dirty just as they did here in QLD. It didn’t work but with nothing else to hit Abbott with they will go with the dirt.

    I fully expect to see Tony Abbott declared the winner on election night. If he isn’t I may need treatment for despair.

  153. Andrew

    I believe he is playing a long game. He, unlike Rudd, who is like a mouse on a wheel, will stand back and observe as Rudd self-destructs as his wheel gets faster and faster in the lead up to the election. Tony Abbott will wait his chance then when all about Rudd is chaos he will step up and be the voice of reason.

    The long game? The election will be late August. It is going to be an election campaign where it is basically Rudd v Abbott. They needed to hit back harder as soon as Rudd became leader. He has neutralised many issues. It is much harder to expect Rudd to self destruct in a camapign where he is at his best. This is going to be a close fought battle now. There will only be a couple of seats in it either way.

  154. Sarcophilus harrisii

    Also, the Greens need to bring back Bob Brown.

  155. Monkey's Uncle

    The problem with all such polls is that it is often easier for someone who is not the current leader to perform well in such polls. Part of this is simply the “grass is always greener on the other side” mentality, and the fact that the candidate who is not currently the leader is not subject to the attacks from opponents and need to take a stand on difficult issues.

    Another problem with such polls is that it is easy for those who are on the other side of the fence to simply use such polls to indirectly kick the existing leader. i.e. all those Labor and Green voters who claim they would switch their vote to the Liberals if Turnbull was leader are just saying so to deliver an indirect hit to Abbott, by implying that there is all this extra vote going begging just because the wrong leader is in. They are just being mischievous and messing with their minds.

    It is very easy to look at polls like that, and get all excited about getting winning big by simply changing leaders. But the truth is that this is often illusory, electoral fools gold. It will evaporate on closer inspection.

  156. Monkey's Uncle

    One of the problems with having Malcolm Turnbull as leader is that the most important swing voters who tend to decide elections are usually socially conservative but slightly more populist or moist on economic issues. As an economic dry and social liberal, Turnbull will have a harder time appealing to those voters. Moreover, the people who are more attracted to fiscal conservatism and social progressivism are more likely to reside in seats that the Liberal Party already hold comfortably. There is not much point in having a leader who can rack up even bigger majorities in blue-ribbon Liberal seats (and perhaps getting a slightly higher share of preferences from affluent Greens who reside in those areas), only to lose the battleground areas such as western Sydney.

  157. Oh come on

    Malcolm Turnbull is the only Coalition politician who can guarantee Rudd’s defeat.

    The more I think about this sentence, the more I marvel at its defiantly arse-over-tit inaccuracy. It is exactly wrong. Change ‘defeat’ to ‘victory’ and it is spot-on. I mean, anybody else in the coalition – ANYONE – could conceivably lead them to victory. Turnbull couldn’t. Getting rid of Abbott (no matter how that’s done) and installing “popular” Turnbull off the back of a few blasts of disagreeable poll data…gee, that sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

    Conservative voters take pride in the fact that the Libs don’t operate like the ALP. Do you think a coalition leadership change that could be a facsimile copy of the recent Gillard knifing would go down well in the Liberal heartland? Do you think swinging voters would approve? Screw policy – one of the main things the coalition’s got going for them in light of the unholy shamozzle of the modern ALP is the simple fact that they don’t look like the ALP. Dumping Abbott for Turnbull .

    I believe that we haven’t seen the best of Turnbull, but at present it’s true that the vast majority of people who get enthusiastic over the prospect of him taking back the coalition leadership wouldn’t vote for the coalition, regardless of who leads them. Lefties love Turnbull; he’s just like that GOP presidential candidate played by the guy from MASH that they respected in The West Wing. They were still relieved when Jimmy Smits won.

    Amusingly, a dyed-in-the-wool social justice type confessed to me recently that he wouldn’t think twice about voting for Turnbull – if he was the Labor leader.

    So yeah, putting Turnbull back in charge of the coalition would please non-coalition voters, but alienate their core supporters. And let’s not forget the swinging voters, who tuned out the Labor soap opera, and certainly don’t want to watch the same programme on the coalition channel.

    I have enjoyed Samuel J’s droll, sardonic, rolling commentary on the Rudd redux, but it seems his return seems to be rattling Samuel. Rudd is more likely to win than Gillard, that’s true. But he’s still an outside chance. And there’s still plenty of time for Rudd to come unstuck.

  158. Samuel J, the Cat is on my banned list for the rest of the week until Friday. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy is not something one does lightly.

  159. whyisitso

    I’ve just come across this thread, and am gobsmacked (I haven’t read the comments yet). Turnbull is in the wrong party. He belongs is the ALP or even the Greens (he’s an avowed warmist). He’s a dyed-in-the-wool leftist. If he comes back as Liberal leader, we’ll be asked choose between three left-wing parties. I for one will vote informal until the Coalition comes to it senses.

  160. JohnRMcD

    I utterly detest the smug, smarmy, oleaginous, odious, unctuous, incompetent, narcissistic, waffling, traitorous, jumped up, parasitic, self-important, utterly useless, embarrassingly uncool, pedestrian, warmy leftist dickhead.

    As a lover of English, and a student of Invective; My congratulations.
    If you are concerned about the “crass” term “dickhead” you could use an old mate’s “peno-cephalic disorder”.

  161. Oh, all right, I was OTT. I hereby re enter the fray and declare it Friday.
    I was always happy to hold my nose and vote for TA, but a Liberal Party run by MT? He’s reportedly into hock with GS for half a billion knicker, and that is no position for a party leader to be in. I can’t vote for him on morality grounds alone.

    (My apologies for the shot about ‘áid and comfort” Samuel J. I withdraw the remark unreservedly)

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