Tuesday Forum: July 30, 2013

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1,184 Responses to Tuesday Forum: July 30, 2013

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  1. Megan

    Yes, yes, yes…err…no.

  2. Pedro

    Yglesias is without a doubt the best lefty econ blogger around. Check this for a great example of clear and sensible thinking
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/29/political_economy_of_homeownership_a_disaster_area.html

    He’s the sort of lefty I really like, honest about his preferences for greater redistribution and generally doesn’t support inefficient policies to slyly further lefty goals.

  3. Rudiau

    Why is Pickering making an example of the two most Conservative comperes on ALPBC.

  4. trax

    My favourite of the week: Spain Privatises the Sun
    Can’t wait for our politicians to get wind of that, oh wait they might privatise that too.

  5. Steve of Glasshouse

    Octa mom

  6. I am bright and early too!

    Well, early anyway.

  7. rafiki

    Carlton President “Pig’s Arse” Elliott declared after the 1979 Grand Final: ‘What is better than beating Collingwood by 10 goals? Beating them by 5 points’. When it comes to the impending federal election, the opposite must be true. An LNP government needs a Senate majority. It needs to move quickly and decisively to redress the appalling mess created by the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd governments. But first of all, it needs to win, and on some indicators, that is far from inevitable. A Senate majority looks very remote.

    Recent polling has the LNP v Labor split at 50/50 (Galaxy), and 51/49 (Essential Research). Galaxy reports that “Kevin Rudd’s lead over Tony Abbott as preferred prime minister is unchanged at 51-34, but Malcolm Turnbull holds a 46-38 lead over Rudd”. Essential Media reports that “Malcolm Turnbull is rated best person to lead the Liberal Party by 37% against 17% for Tony Abbott and 10% for Joe Hockey”.

    Anyone thinking rationally about these figures, and who accepts the argument above, must think about replacing Abbott with Turnbull. Switching leaders has clearly worked for Labor on, and I cannot imagine that the LNP would do worse under Turnbull. It is curious, however, that many Catallaxy bloggers resist even the notion that the issue should be raised. Fisky did recently, and was roundly attacked, abused, and misquoted. More recently, the poor soul felt the need to confess that he was “part-trolling”.

    Some offer reasons for leaving Abbott as leader. One is that a change would split the Liberals. It might create division within the ranks of candidates, but I doubt that any candidate would actively promote or support a split. It would not be in their interest. The prospect of a split if Turnbull took over now would be diminished if Abbott were to resign and then pledge support. But this might not be essential.

    If Abbott loses, a split could well result. Given his much higher profile and credibility in the eyes of the electorate, a Turnbull-lead diminished Liberal caucus and extra-parliamentary wing would be more attractive to potential new members, to business, to the media (and probably some others).

    A second objection is that Abbott will win. Well, he might, and I hope he does, but there is a significant risk that he won’t. The stupidity of the electorate is demonstrated by the polling showing that Rudd is handling the boat arrivals better! In any event, it is not enough that Abbott merely gains a majority (see above).

    A third is that Turnbull is too close to the middle, or too much favoured by the Q and A crowd, and similar points. Maybe so, but is he not preferable to a Rudd government?

    Finally, nearly all Catallaxy bloggers will not ask why Turnbull is far more popular than Abbott. I have suggested that this is due in significant part to his popularity among the 20-30 age group. For all his transparently stupid policies, Rudd does appeal (more than Abbott) to this group. (I would like to be shown that I am wrong.)

    I cannot do anything to bring about a change, apart from hoping that the Liberals are thinking about it.

  8. pete m

    Abbott as PM will be measurably more popular than Abbott as Opposition leader. Just you wait.

    don’t care about Senate blocking – they block and get a double diss.

  9. Cold-Hands

    XIV
    Another stealth start to an open fred.

  10. Huckleberry Chunkwot

    Posted on the now defunct OT,
    From Bolta, an interview with Yvette D’Ath.
    Watch it in horror.
    Not only can she not pronounce her R’s, she is possibly the most stupid politician that I have ever heard speak.
    Katie Ellis is an intellectual giant in comparison.

    How on earth do cretins like this slip through the cracks and get elected?

  11. Huckleberry Chunkwot

    Rafiki, get off the cat’s tail.

  12. Dee Clarke

    Rafiki,
    Your argumen might stack up if what Australia needed was a smooth-talking pleasant mannered PM. It needs much more than that. The future will not be for the faint hearted. Malcolm Turnbull might be intelligent but he doesn’t appear to have the dogged determination that Tony Abbott has displayed over the past 3 years. Who but Abbott would have maintained his focus on Labor’s mismanagement; its incompetence; its failed leaders?

    Malcolm Turnbull appears to be the type who, like Rudd – needs to be liked. He functions better when he is in the company of those who praise him. Q&A; The Observer Effect; Kitchen Cabinet. Tony Abbott is more about getting the job done – properly. He is not about celebrity.

    I believe a majority of Australian voters also want an adult as PM. Someone who will get the job done with the minimum of fuss and fanfare. Most people don’t want politics to be the main talking point in their lives. Not since Gough Whitlam has there been a PM who has talked their way into everyone’s daily life.

    I am prepared to take my chances with Tony Abbott. If the majority of voters prefer Rudd I will be disappointed – mainly because it will mean I no longer live in a country with a majority of like minded people.

  13. kae

    Housos.

    On The Cat for posterity (and you to see).

  14. kae

    Too silly, too much swearing, but amusing in a cringe-worthy, train-wreck, stereotyped way.

  15. Tom

    Once again, I have no trouble with the raw voting data in yesterday’s Essential Report* (on primary votes, Labor 36%, Coalition 46%, Greens 9%), which has been one of the least volatile opinion polls over the past three years and again puts the Coalition ahead.

    However, once again, Essential extrapolates its raw data to assume that Labor will get 50% of the non-Greens “independent/other” preferences, compared with just 5% at the 2010 election. If 2010 voting patterns are used to extrapolate 2PP, we get approximately 53.5: 46.5% to the Coalition.

    Essential also finds that 8% nominate “independent/other” — the protest vote — compared with 6.6% in 2010. I believe that, at the 2013 election, after three years of minority government, people may well be nominating a protest vote, but when it comes down to it, they will polarise around the major parties with as few as 4% actually going ahead with a protest vote.

    *Essential’s sample of 1912 is the second-biggest of the regular polls.

  16. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    I mean, like, you know – what sort of Berlog Obergruppenführer starts a new one at midday? You know what I’m sayin’? Eh?

  17. Rabz

    Once more for the terminally wrong among us.

    What part of:

    “Malcolm Turnbull was the most unpopular Liberal Leader in recent decades”

    are you unable to comprehend?

    If the Liberals dump Abbott for Turnbull, every Liberal voter I know has stated they will either vote informal (the vast majority) or vote Labor.

    Turnbull’s shameful, despicable arse licking of Rudd over the taxing of air saw him dumped in an unprecedented voter backlash. He had his chance and he blew it big time – I mean Godwin Grech, FFS?

    Abbott has done nothing wrong – he has already seen off Rudd, has seen off Gillard after running a shrewd campaign in 2010 which almost saw a first term government consigned to an extraordinary defeat (except for the treachery of two braindead, self aggrandising rural turnips) and is poised to see off Rudd yet again.

    And Abbott has achieved this, all the while being subjected to the most foul, unrelenting abuse by some of the most repulsive deadshits to have ever wandered the face of this earth – and I regard Turnbull as being complicit in this abuse.

    Turnbull has not held the media to account, he has never public supported Abbott in a totally unqualified manner and he was unable to lay a glove on one of the most stupid, inept ‘ministers’ in this country’s history.

    Turnbull isn’t a leader’s bootlace.

  18. entropy

    The push for Turnbull is a deliberately fielded meme by the ALP to get people with vague concerns about Abbott to get all hot and bothered and destabilise the libs.

    Someone mentioned the Terry Goodkind novel “wizard’s first rule” a few days ago. In it the bad guy tried all kinds of sneaky tricks to generate FUD in the general populace, because he knew the first rule.

  19. kae

    Rabx

    Turnbull was popular with ALP voters.

  20. calli

    And Abbott has achieved this, all the while being subjected to the most foul, unrelenting abuse by some of the most repulsive deadshits to have ever wandered the face of this earth

    And for this, if nothing else, he gets my loyalty.

  21. Turnbull has not held the media to account, he has never public supported Abbott in a totally unqualified manner and he was unable to lay a glove on one of the most stupid, inept ‘ministers’ in this country’s history.

    Turnbull isn’t a leader’s bootlace.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN

    [ in fancy polyphonic Gregorian chant, at least 40 separate voices and parts]

  22. egg_

    Tom
    #941352, posted on July 30, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Yup just some poll jittering, as KRudd slides they’ll simmer down.
    Polling with KRudd in constant campaigning mode is bound to be noisy.

  23. Driftforge

    And Abbott has achieved this, all the while being subjected to the most foul, unrelenting abuse by some of the most repulsive deadshits to have ever wandered the face of this earth

    And largely he achieved it by simply remaining unmoved by all that.

  24. Gab

    ABC24 brings you the latest fact checked news courtesy of the taxpayer.

    Tasmania – nearly everybody in Tasmania is named Nina Lyhne and works for the Department of Transport:

    Ellen is currently changing her name by deed poll.

  25. Rabz

    Ellen is currently changing her name by deed poll.

    Wonderful – she’ll be addressed as “Nina” from now on, as will Deadman.

    Any other regular commenters here hail from that economic powerhouse?

  26. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    ” Turnbull has not held the media to account, he has never …

    Turnbull isn’t a leader’s bootlace.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN

    [ in fancy polyphonic Gregorian chant, at least 40 separate voices and parts]”

    I’ll stand up in the back there in the shadows contributing an unmelodious low growling sound for you Philippa, as my “Hear, hear!”

  27. Thank you Eggy – points for trying, but I was thinking more of something like this.

  28. Cold-Hands

    “Godwin Grech” just proves that Turnbull doesn’t have the political smarts to be an effective leader. A wilier, more patient politician would never have been so suckered in. A change to Turnbull would demonstrate that the Liberals are no different to the ALP, the last message anyone would wish to give to the electorate.

  29. Gab

    Abbott should call on reporter’s questions by their name. He should be the one selecting from whom to take questions rather than replying to the loudest female screetcher in the mob. He did quite well this morning replying to a reporter’s falsely-premised question by pointing out the facts and referring to her by name. Yes Lauren, I’m talking about you.

  30. [I would have said Thomas Tallis, but apparently 50 Shades of Grey got there first.]

  31. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From the previous forum:

    “Rudd can still call an election for September 7 or September 21?

    September has never been a real good time to attract attention. There’s a lot of competition in Spring!

    September 6, 7 & 8: AFL elimination finals, Wallabies vs South Africa in Brisbane
    September 14: AFL preliminary finals, NRL semi finals, Vic Spring racing carnival commences, Wallabies vs Argentina in Perth, Sandown V8s
    September 21: AFL preliminary finals, NRL semi finals, Sydney Marathon (City to Surf?) on 22nd
    September 28: AFL Grand final, NRL semi finals
    October 6: NRL grand final

    and there are various spring flower festivals all about the place.

    School holidays kick off around the country on the 21st and 28th, lasting a fortnight; another important date is the 14th (the naming of which I think landed me in moderation when I tried to post on the previous Open Forum); and Fathers Day on the 1st. The Bathurst 500 is on October 11 to 13 this year.

    The world is due a lecture from the President of Austrayiana at the G20 in Russia on September 5 and 6 too.

    The closest dates to September in the post WWII elections were:
    Oct 9 ’04
    Oct 3 ’98
    Oct 18 ’80
    Oct 25 ’69

    You’ve got to go back 26 elections to find a September date – Sept 28 ’46.

    62% of post WWII Federal elections have been held in October to December (4 [15%], 5 [19%] and 7 [27%] respectively).

    I am enjoying Labor’s dilemma – they crowned him King and he’s milking it for all its worth.

    PS.
    The number of elections held in the other months during that period were:
    March 4,
    April 1,
    May 2,
    July 1,
    August 1, and
    September 1

  32. Dr Faustus

    The push for Turnbull is a deliberately fielded meme by the ALP to get people with vague concerns about Abbott to get all hot and bothered and destabilise the libs.

    Late onset Turnbull Leadership Enthusiasm is a reliable litmus test; useful to identify ALP fellow travelers, soft centres and people who have just recently turned their thoughts to Australian politics after an agreeable bottle of pinot gris.

    In practical terms, even if organizationally possible, rolling Abbott for Turnbull would guarantee the Coalition lost to a Ruddslide in a September election – because:

    a) most people have no idea what Turnbull stands for;
    b) most aspects of Liberal policy would need to be reworked during the election run-up;
    c) the Nationals don’t much like him.

    Entropy is 100% on the money.

  33. Steve D

    rafiki
    #941305, posted on July 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    LESLIE: It’s been my experience, General, that there is little advantage to winning if one wins too easily.
    GENERAL KUSHTER: An admirable point of view, for anyone but a soldier. In my profession, to win is imperative. To win easily is a blessing.

    ~ The Great Race

  34. Steve D

    Oh, and I agree that going back to Turnbull would be a bad move. Those of us who want to see adults in charge want Abbott. Those who a rusted on to Labor want Turnbull.

    Even at 50%/50% in the polls, Labor still have to gain seats to retain government.

  35. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “Party Games: If Tony Abbott drops further in Galaxy poll, a panicked Coalition may opt for Malcolm Turnbull” with the front page lead in note “Turnbull snaps at Abbott’s heels”

    shouts the Telegraph headline.

    The ALP has directed the media to jump in and fill a Comrade Dear Leader news void today.

  36. struth

    Maybe in the future, Liberals will put up a sacrificial leader to take the personal abuse that labor spews forth and then when they’ve been playing against the man instead of policy, Liberals can change leader at the last minute and stuff them up…….But integrity will stop the right side of politics from treating voters with such contempt. They want you to know what you are buying. We don’t want to talk about personalities as much as policy. I definitely don’t want to the liberals version of Krudd …..left wing light Turnbull….no wonder labor voters like him. That should tell you enough.

  37. Andrew

    Turnbull will challenge if Abbott wins the upcoming election. I think there is very little doubt about that. Tough decisions are going to have to be made if we want to stop going down the path of welfarism and high taxes so MPs will get nervous when the polls go bad. It is inevitable that it will happen.

  38. calli

    a panicked Coalition may opt for Malcolm Turnbull

    Heh, heh. So Turnbull is the ‘panic’ choice, is he? Oddly, I seem to remember some panicking from another quarter about a month ago…

    I guess that’s all down the memory hole now.

  39. struth

    The next leader after Abbott, in my books, whenever that is, should be Julie Bishop. She has it. Me thinks those sprouting Turnbull’s name have been watching too much ABC.

  40. Driftforge

    Any other regular commenters here hail from that economic powerhouse?

    Yes.

  41. Toiling Mass

    Labor is campaigning now, even using all the ‘free stuff’ government ads, and even then are at best breaking even with the Libs.

    When the election is actually called I think Abbott and the Libs will come out punching, releasing policy and having the opportunity to defend it.

    Rudd will likely have to fall back on gimmicks and the rest of the ALP repeated episodes of faux outrage in an ttempt to spear the Libs. I think Abbott would be the best one to maintain focus and keep his team similarly focussed. Turnbull just doesn’t have the goods.

  42. stackja

    Abbott should call on reporter’s questions by their name.

    John Howard said hello Laurie often.

    Laurie Oakes, then as now a reporter in the Canberra press gallery, obtained a copy of treasurer John Howard’s budget speech and revealed the details on Channel 10 two nights early.
    Oakes has never revealed his source. Mr Howard, in his biography, describes the leak as “a huge embarrassment for the government”. He later thought it had come from the public service.
    In his book On The Record, Oakes sheds a little more light on the matter. He writes that credit was long overdue to Channel 10 cameraman Phil Lorant.

  43. Driftforge

    The next leader after Abbott, in my books, whenever that is, should be Julie Bishop.

    This.

  44. entropy

    Turnbull will challenge if Abbott wins the upcoming election

    if he did his heart would be broken again. The only scenario for that to happen would be Abbott scraping in by one vote. Any other and Abbott will be in a honeymoon period and therefore untouchable.

    Turnbull could only go a challenge about six months out form the 2016 election, and then only if there w a McGuffey to justify it. I think not, and Turnbull should concertante on being the best on the team.

  45. Infidel Tiger

    Julie Bishop is a nice lady, but if history has taught us anything it is that Australia does not like unmarried childless women.

  46. Gab

    Bishop is a great 2IC and would make an excellent FM but not a leader, imo.

  47. Andrew

    Julie Bishop is a nice lady, but if history has taught us anything it is that Australia does not like unmarried childless women.

    I don’t think it is that. I simply think that she is not as strong on the policy side of things than Abbott is. She is also one of the moderates in the party like Turnbull.

  48. struth

    My point is I reckon she’s a better choice ……..way in the future…..than Turnbull will ever be.

  49. Infidel Tiger

    Abbott is going to be PM for at least 6 years. The more interesting questions is who will lead the socialist wowsers after Rudd gets whipped harder than a Saudi woman who complains of being raped?

  50. egg_

    Julie Bishop is a nice lady, but if history has taught us anything it is that Australia does not like unmarried childless women.

    Dayum! Where’s Rabz best blokes’ fashion tips, again? 😉

  51. Toiling Mass

    I don’t think being unwed and childless would necessarily be a problem for Bishop. If she is a competent leader who makes sensible decisions I suspect it would not even be an issue.

    The problem for TLS was that she was barrenness throughout – every aspect of humanity was lifeless in her.

  52. calli

    Rafiki’s comment has merely resulted in a discussion of possible leaders and the depth of talent available (some more, some less). A month ago, Rudd was the only alternative for Labor.

    Has Scott Morrison been mentioned yet?

  53. struth

    Juliar was not dumped because she was unmarried and childless. She was a liar, a fake and a rabid devisive socialist. Australia won’t be ready for that until the young brainwashed of today are running the show. The education department needs only a few more years work. She was before her time.?!

  54. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Just catching up back on previous OF.

    Gab, that book on the Crusades by Hindley is reviewed on Amazon (two 3-star reviews). It sounds quite good on the geo-political aspects, less good as an easy read with a decent narrative flow. Chapter on women could be interesting. (Is he Australian? thought I saw a review of him in the Oz a few years ago).

    Thanks too, Dover, for the ‘thousand year’ reference to R.L.Wilkin, which linked me to his book on ‘The Christians as the Romans Saw Them”. I’m interested in the history of religous ideas over this period.

  55. egg_

    Bishop is a great 2IC

    Yup, as others have observed, in executive Govt the best leaders have usually been in a successful partnership, e.g. Hawke & Keating.

  56. Rabz

    Yes.

    Thanks for the confirmation, Nina.

  57. egg_

    something like this.

    Beautiful in every way tks Philippa.

  58. Gab

    Hope you’re feeling chipper today, Lizzie after yesterday’s event.

    ———————-

    I’m also interested in the 15th century period [looking forward to reading a certain book by a certain someone here, one day 🙂 ] and events surrounding the War of the Roses.

  59. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Reading through some of the recent fun times, especially those I have missed over the last few nights, brings me to reflect on how many good new women we are seeing coming onto the Cat, so that we are getting more than an occasional chance to put the female perspective in here on all the important f-words – fighting, fatness, fashion, fabrics, fun and frolics. And on some other important things too.

    S’OK all you hairy males, we love ya the way you are. Don’t change a thing. Glad you let us in. 🙂

  60. Rabz

    Lizzie – I’m very happy to hear you’ve survived that medical procedure.

  61. H B Bear

    Assuming Abbott wins two terms there are any number of up and coming people within the Liberal Party who would be capable of replacing him. I think Bishop, like Gillard was ultimately shown to be, is at best a 2IC.

    Howard’s greatest weakness was the hubris that prevented him from handing over smoothly to Costello (stemming I suspect in no small part from Janette who, like all incumbents, grows too fond of the trappings of high office). The ALPBC and the Love Media always ran the line that Costello was unelectable, just as they have done with Abbott. By the time Howard realised he needed to go it was too late and KRudd was off to the races.

    My personal feeling is that Abbott will grow in the role of PM, as Howard ultimately did. Both KRudd and particularly Gillard failed to do so.

  62. Lucie

    If Julia Gillard had been a competent economic manager, with a personable manner, and whose word you could trust, would it have been a problem that she hadn’t married or bred? I doubt it. Arguably, it is easier for a woman without children to be a successful, fully realised leader. And Rudd is an example of how marriage and children don’t guarantee goodness, competence or genuine likability.

  63. Footwear. Felines. Foundation garments. And of course, f-ervesence.

    PS Lizzie, I’d be so glad if you would go to this site:

    http://perfectblackdress.com.au/shop/and tell me if I’m right about the boots being a mistake, throughout. I feel I may have been a little harsh on my own blog recently.

  64. calli

    My personal feeling is that Abbott will grow in the role of PM

    Agreed, HB. To grow in any role, you have to be humble enough to know that growth is necessary. Those other two, I suspect, felt they came fully formed into the job and stuffed it up as a consequence.

    Even now, KRudd is trying on the outrageous line that it’s the Australian people’s fault that the borders have become porous. After all, the Australian people voted for him. And apart from a couple of exceptions, the MSM is letting him run with it. I wish my saucepans were as non-stick!

    And speaking of ‘f’ words, I can offer ‘food’, Lizzie. 🙂

  65. PS I think Julie Bishop is actually divorced, but yes, she is childless.

    But someone might like to check that one out for me.

  66. Mike of Marion

    As I have said on earlier threads, if Libs put Turnbull in as Leader, I’ll vote anything other than Lib.

    If Abbott died tomorrow, it has to be Morrison to lead the charge – that bloke is near unflappable.

  67. twostix

    a) most people have no idea what Turnbull stands for;

    Absent NSW style corruption, in a choice between Labor and Labor-lite people decide that they might as well vote for Labor. They’re certainly not going to vote for a merchant banker who only joined politics because he was bored sitting in his mansion and more or less flipped a coin when deciding which party to join.

    If he’d state his loyalty to Abbott (promise stable government) for at least two terms he’d probably make a fine treasurer but then who could trust him to not undermine Abbott to his leftist mates in the faux-fawning media? Is he so vain he forgets how the media treated him when he was actually leader? Does he not understand that all of this is them preying on his vanity to damage the Liberals and if he ever got in again it would be a slaughter (again)?

  68. Pickles

    The boots are great, it might be wise to go any of the long sleeve versions Philippa to save wear and tear on the elbows.

  69. Oh IT:

    if history has taught us anything it is that Australia does not like unmarried childless women.

    It depends entirely on what kind of person they are.

    For example, Dorothy Tangney – highly successful, popular, unmarried, childless female Australian politician.

  70. Sirocco

    I think the election date will be 21 September, notwithstanding Mick’s reasoning at 2.04. Parliament is due to resume on 20 August. Rudd will want to avoid scrutiny by the House, (will Windsor Oakshott and Slipper turn up?) and almost certain rejection by the Greens and coalition in the Senate. ? Proroguing Parliament to avoid scrutiny on the basis there is no business to conduct is not a serious option. His only realistic option to avoid resumption of parliament is to visit the GG on the weekend of 17/18 August. This will still allow him to go to the G20 on 7 September. Mind you, he could visit the GG on that weekend, but name the date for 12 October. That would give an caretaker period of 8 weeks. Far too long of course, but Rudd is squeezed on suitable dates by avoiding the Parliament.

  71. candy

    Hi Lizzie
    I’m glad to see you’re back on board after a medical procedure, best take it easy for a day or two.

    cheers,
    Candy xxx

  72. The boots are great, it might be wise to go any of the long sleeve versions Philippa to save wear and tear on the elbows.

    Considering that you were clearly the person responsible for dressing Armadillo in that awful floral blue frock the other night, AND removing his girdle, it might be better for you to be taking your own advice.

    My good man.

    [raises lorgnette]

  73. Angus Black

    I can’t believe you guys are letting the leftward trolls divert you down the Turnbull road.

    Ignore them.

    Yvette Death for coach of the Colliwobbles, say I

  74. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Oops, Gab. I’m fifth century, not fifteenth, and it is not fiction (just a back-burner hobby – speculation on ancient documents etc.) so of limited interest. When I’m old enough, I’ll write up my memoirs. 🙂

    I’ll warrant that the fifteenth century has some exciting love stories to be told. Late medieval and all. Actually, the biggest medieval love story of them all, inspiring to me as a fifteen year-old, was Anya Seton’s imagining of the woman called Katherine Swynford, the real paramour of John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster. Why that hasn’t been made into a blockbuster movie yet is beyond my ken. What a tale, thrillingly and believably set and told. Virginal rape, loveless marriage, childbirth, the Great Duke himself, the plague, the death of his first wife, the hot sex scene in the Pyrenees castle, the tribe of illegitimate children, political intrigue bringing the peasants revolt, and the eventual marriage to her Duke which made the woman from the Ford of the Swine into a Royal ancestress, part of the bloodline of the English throne itself. And, in its essentials, all TRUE! A kindly librarian put me on to it, and I’ve returned to re-read that book every five years or so.

  75. Jazza

    Rabz(941356 at 1.23pm)
    Couldn’t agree MORE with every word you rote…except, I could nover bring my self to vote Labor or Greens as that would debase my long held principles.
    Go Tony– family man, gentleman, volunteer to put others to shame but unassuming about it, and unafraid to speak out for the good of this country. GOD PLEASE let him WIN over the Zipper, KRudd,an empty self-centred fool, an incompetent and liar

  76. Infidel Tiger

    For example, Dorothy Tangney – highly successful, popular, unmarried, childless female Australian politician.

    She didn’t get my vote.

  77. Jazza

    OOps Rabz, every word you wrote!

  78. candy

    I reckon Tony Abbott is by far the best person for the job, but if there’s a tide against conservative governments which has been masked by Julia Gillard’s big unpopularity, don’t know if anything can be done and polls will be stuck at 50/50.

    Unless KRudd gets embroiled in a sex scandal or something …

  79. will offer something like the Holy See as a diplomatic post, a post that Tony would have trouble resisting, and then he would be lost to us forever.

    Neither Tony Abbott nor anyone in his nominally Catholic family even goes to Mass, except on special occasions and/or possibly when forced. He is pro IVF and pro abortion, even if only under certain limited circumstances.

    This means he’s not exactly a Catholic in good standing with the rest of the Church.

    So why he would go dashing off to Rome is a mystery to me. And why Rome would not send him straight back with a well-deserved flea in the ear and considerably more than three Hail Marys would be equally mysterious.

  80. She didn’t get my vote.

    Then I suggest you go and buy yourself a small time machine, and fix that problem immediately. Or you could marry her instead, and spoil her otherwise perfect record …

  81. A Lurker

    @ rafiki, a few reasons why I couldn’t, as a Conservative, vote for Turnbull:

    1. He’s not a Conservative.
    2. He displays a lot of Narcissistic personality traits.
    3. He barely laid a glove on Conroy during his term as Shadow Communications Minister.
    4. He’s a Climate Change/Global Warming believer.
    5. How do we know that he won’t put his own or Goldman Sachs interests before Australian interests.
    6. He showed poor judgement (Godwin Gretch affair).
    7. Was trying to drag the Liberals to the Left, making them a ‘Clayton’s Labor Party’.
    8. Does not show an iota of the sort of community spirit/work that Abbott demonstrates.
    9. It WILL split the Coalition vote.
    10. Labor wants it, so ipso facto, we should deny Labor what they want.
    11. The ‘love media’ want it, so ipso facto, we should deny the ‘love media’ what it wants.
    12. We need a proper Conservative party, not another party of the Left.
    13. A big strength of the Coalition is their stability, if Abbott is replaced, then Labor can hypocritically point out division in the party and be guaranteed not be called out on their own division by the ‘love media’.
    14. Changing a leader close to an election puts the Liberals in the same ‘whatever it takes’ foetid pool that Labor lives in.

  82. Steve D

    Andrew
    #941399, posted on July 30, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Turnbull will challenge if Abbott wins the upcoming election.

    Can’t see him trying. He didn’t stand after Abbott ran Gillard to the wire at the last election. And if he thinks he can try after waiting a little while, then all Liberal MPs need to be aware (and reminded if they waver) of their constituents’ wishes.

  83. dover_beach

    Lizzie, happy to be of service. Wilkin is a fine gentleman and a brilliant scholar.

  84. Vicki

    Philippa Martyr, didn’t Malcolm Turnbull tell Ellen Fanning on The Observer Effect that Abbott attended Mass every day? I thought at the time that MT was making mischief again. So, obviously he was.

  85. Lucie

    Good to see you back and well, Lizzie.

    I agree with what everyone has said in favour of Abbott and against Turnbull. Apart from anything else, it would make no sense to turn back to Turnbull, who gained no traction as opposition leader and who lost the leadership (albeit by just one vote) due to his stance on AGW. It’s true his support for Abbott has seemed superficial at best – and why wouldn’t it be just that, when he nearly quit after losing to Abbott, and when he seems to be a Ruddish personality – if better disguised. If he were to challenge after an Abbott win, he would lose a lot of support among Coalition voters. I don’t seriously believe the polls about him anyway.

    Thanks for the link to that woman politician, Phillipa – very interesting – whatever the formidable IT may say!

  86. Philippa Martyr, didn’t Malcolm Turnbull tell Ellen Fanning on The Observer Effect that Abbott attended Mass every day? I thought at the time that MT was making mischief again. So, obviously he was.

    Vicki, that’s entirely possible, but certainly he doesn’t come across as a practising Catholic, and especially not a daily Mass-goer.

    Maybe he was at the time Turnbull said that. People change. Or maybe Turnbull was bullshitting.

  87. twostix

    I agree that Tony would grow into the job and be a great PM

    Let’s not get carried away with ourselves. Abbott’s a big government socialist lackey who thinks we should have our lives run by the ever increasing technocracy in Canberra. The only difference between him and Rudd is he might actually be competent at implementing his suffocating, patronising plans.

  88. twostix

    Neither Tony Abbott nor anyone in his nominally Catholic family even goes to Mass

    Is that right? Seriously?

    So the whole mad monk catholic thing is a complete fabrication that could equally or better apply to half of the Labor Right?

    Have the left no shame? And have “catholics” that belong to Labor and so are party to this assault on their own beliefs for political gain any moral base what-so-ever?

  89. Lucie

    If Turnbull and Bishop are ‘moderates’, where does Morrison stand? I like him best of the rest. A bit like Abbott, he’s had a tough job and done well in it.

  90. Tony may be extremely devout, eg. believes in God and prays, but he’s also pro-abortion and pro-IVF, both of which are diametrically at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

    There are also a lot of ‘devout Catholic’ politicians in the United States. They are devout in that they want to be elected, but don’t want to change any of their personal convictions in the process, but also don’t want to alienate a largely secular voting public, but at the same time want an easy route to what they think is the ‘Catholic vote’.

    John Kerry is a prime example. The entire Kennedy family is another.

    Tony Abbott is not one of those, quite. But he certainly has his own personal take on Catholicism which isn’t flush with the actual religion’s actual teaching.

    What he does in his spare time is none of my business, but it irks me to hear people who never darken a church door, or who hold conspicuously non-Catholic views on moral/life issues, describe themselves or be described as ‘devout Catholics’.

  91. Gab

    I’m fifth century, not fifteenth, and it is not fiction (just a back-burner hobby – speculation on ancient documents etc.) so of limited interest.

    Oops my mistake. nevertheless, I would still be interested as it is not fiction; and you got me at “ancient documents”.

  92. So the whole mad monk catholic thing is a complete fabrication that could equally or better apply to half of the Labor Right?

    Have the left no shame? And have “catholics” that belong to Labor and so are party to this assault on their own beliefs for political gain any moral base what-so-ever?

    twostix, I wish someone would produce some documentary evidence to tell me I’m wrong about this, because I’d much rather Tony Abbott was a practising Catholic who stuck faithfully to all the Church’s teachings, even the fiddly ones that no one likes, AND that he was prepared to say some of this in public.

    But so far it’s not been forthcoming. He seems to be as much of a cafeteria Catholic as anyone in the NSW ALP right. That won’t stop me voting for him, but it does make me start getting antsy at the whole ‘mad monk’ and ‘devout Catholic’ gig.

  93. twostix

    11. The ‘love media’ want it, so ipso facto, we should deny the ‘love media’ what it wants.

    Exactly.

    They’re almost delirious for the Liberals to have a leadership battle so the media can kill the extremely damaging Labor dysfunction narrative. Witness the other week where after bickering with him Trioli was almost begging Greg Hunt to say there was something to Turnbull’s cheeky but empty remarks about people should be glad he’s part of a team.

    The longer the Liberals deny it to them the more shrill and insane they will become which will be good.

  94. Gab

    Turnbull said Abbott goes to mass everyday? LOL, the crap people say and the crap people believe. about Abbott.

  95. JC

    Have the left no shame? And have “catholics” that belong to Labor and so are party to this assault on their own beliefs for political gain any moral base what-so-ever?

    Ask the partridge, the conservative catholic.

    You need to ask him at his blog though because he’s basically banned from infesting this site.

    The reminds me the partridge joins such exulted company as, bird, homer, shiny lambert, metromick my carbon slave, Phil the fat trannie and many other lunatics sent to the sin bin.

  96. dover_beach

    Speaking of polyphony, a few months back someone I can’t recall linked to this wonderful version of Miserere. Thank you.

  97. Armadillo

    Some sage advice from a bloke who woke up after “Saturday Nights Party” wearing nothing but a floral blue dress – put on some pants everyone. It’s not worth the sinde remarks such as “skirt boy” behind your back.

    Abbott will win this election. It hasn’t even been called yet and at the moment Rimmer has been trying to throw as many punches as he can. Wait till Abbott starts throwing them back.

    Sportsbet – Coalition $1.35 – Labor $3.10. Forget the polls being 50/50. This will all be fought out in the few marginal seats (and most of those are Labor marginal seats). The coalition has a massive “war chest” and are yet to open it. Labor has to retain all it’s seats and then win some. Lynne and New England are already in Coalition hands.

    Don’t under estimate Labor’s ability to implode. They hate each others guts and the longer this goes on, the harder it will be for certain individuals not to explode and seek revenge. Its in their DNA and I doubt they can keep a lid on it until election day.

    ICAC enquiry out tomorrow, boats keep coming and harsh budget cuts on the way. They will be exposed for the rabble they are. Rimmer is wearing thin now – imagine another 6-8 weeks of this clown swanning about the joint.

  98. val majkus

    Witness the other week where after bickering with him Trioli was almost begging Greg Hunt to say there was something to Turnbull’s cheeky but empty remarks about people should be glad he’s part of a team

    and Trioli on Q & A last night was on about Rudd’s charisma (que?) again – to be fair the subject was probably in response to a viewer’s question when I wasn’t watching. What I liked about Josh’s response was his strong defence of Abbott and his relating of Abbott’s strong interest and work in Aboriginal communities. That defence was applauded.
    Turnbull has baggage – specifically ETS baggage. I don’t want someone who’s going to get into bed with Rudd on the ETS. And if the Libs rolled Abbott for Turnbull imagine the love fest the luvvies will have
    And again I say ‘Rudd’s charisma (que?)’ Even if he was charismatic he’s still erratic.

  99. Lucie

    Exactly, val. the best dictators have ‘charisma’. The lefties are just desperate because they were so sure Abbott would stuff up – and he hasn’t. And I don’t want anyone who would get in bed with Rudd! (Sorry, Therese)

    P.S. Is Eloise really Francois in drag?

  100. Andrew

    Howard’s greatest weakness was the hubris that prevented him from handing over smoothly to Costello (stemming I suspect in no small part from Janette who, like all incumbents, grows too fond of the trappings of high office). The ALPBC and the Love Media always ran the line that Costello was unelectable, just as they have done with Abbott. By the time Howard realised he needed to go it was too late and KRudd was off to the races.

    Hand over to Costello? I think people who comment on this topic need to move away from the notion that Costello was somehow ‘entitled’ to be handed the leadership on a platter. It was not just the media that ran the line on Costello being unelectable but the party and the general population realised that reality. Let’s not forget that it was Costello who wanted to immediately introduce an ETS and also apologise to the ‘Stolen’ Generation if he became leader. All the major polls showed Howard as the more popular leader.

  101. Armadillo

    One last point. In the cold hard light of polling day, Mr Charisma’s name is not on the ballot paper. Expect the Coalition to focus a bright light on “the pardy” and not the individual.

  102. calli

    and Trioli on Q & A last night was on about Rudd’s charisma

    Next the Rudds will be called a ‘glamour couple’. That’s a nice kangaroo you’re knitting there, Virginia.

  103. Huckleberry Chunkwot

    Well spotted Lucie.

  104. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Philippa, 0613 Bell-Sleeve, 2913 The Romantic, 3113 Folded-Sleeve, are all charming with short redish boots. The look is gamin, sweet, flows of material going outwards creates contrastive softness. Very attractive, imo. Da Hairy Ape likes the look too – he came over all huggy at me in my shortie boots and swirly skirt recently. 🙂

    Conversely, 1313 Silk Neckfold, with long hemline, looks awkward as do some of the other longer hemlines, especially if the skirt has a balloon look; 0813 Boat-Shift with brownish boots, and o913 Long Boat with donkey-brown ruched long boots, both suggest, imo, footwear grabbed as the boat was sinking.

  105. Ah, Eloise – you’re not married to Steve from Brisbane by any chance, are you? Or you wouldn’t BE Steve from Brisbane, by any chance?

    Pope Francis is dead right, and I agree with him. Only God can judge anyone for anything. That’s His job and not ours.

    But that’s a very, very long way – in fact, we might be talking light years – from saying, ‘What the hey – you just go right on ahead doing what you’re doing, gay folks. Love your work!’

    Try reading this and you will learn a little more about the remarkable Pope Francis.

    And then try reading this and you will see what Francis is standing on when he says he can’t judge gay people.

  106. twostix

    Phillippa M it may be possible that you are failing to keep up, this just yesterday.
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-on-gays-who-am-i-to-judge/

    What did people expect him to do? Condemn gays to hell? Do leftists in the media think all that “hate the sin not the sinner” pap that catholics go on about is just lies? I suppose leftists think they’re the same kind of lies that they themselves regularly say in public to hide their true agenda.

    Also didn’t the pope just recently made some severe remarks about gays? Why no coverage of them?

  107. Conversely, 1313 Silk Neckfold, with long hemline, looks awkward as do some of the other longer hemlines, especially if the skirt has a balloon look; 0813 Boat-Shift with brownish boots, and o913 Long Boat with donkey-brown ruched long boots, both suggest, imo, footwear grabbed as the boat was sinking.

    My thoughts exactly. Thank you, Lizzie, for spending your time on this when I know you should be recovering from lady-ops and resting peacefully in the 5th century.

  108. Rudiau

    Gee, I used to love fishing. Not one bite! I’m losing my touch.

  109. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    ‘Rudd’s charisma (que?)’

    He has the charisma of a shaving-nicked ear-wax eater married to a frump.

  110. twostix

    Hand over to Costello? I think people who comment on this topic need to move away from the notion that Costello was somehow ‘entitled’ to be handed the leadership on a platter. It was not just the media that ran the line on Costello being unelectable but the party and the general population realised that reality. Let’s not forget that it was Costello who wanted to immediately introduce an ETS and also apologise to the ‘Stolen’ Generation if he became leader. All the major polls showed Howard as the more popular leader.

    Excellent post Andrew.

    Costello wasn’t a shoe in. He came across as a smirking, smug private school boy who was too clever by half. People respected his skills but didn’t want him as PM. In any case he wouldn’t have won that election, nobody would have. After years of responsibility the electorate wanted a binge and so we got it. Many also believed the media that Rudd would merely be a kinder gentler John Howard and not really do anything differently.

  111. Costello wasn’t a shoe in. He came across as a smirking, smug private school boy who was too clever by half. People respected his skills but didn’t want him as PM.

    Like the old song goes, ‘Who’s Sorry Now?’

  112. dover_beach

    Phillippa M it may be possible that you are failing to keep up, this just yesterday.

    I’m amused that those who think are up-to-date with current affairs are clueless about the matters upon which they believe themselves to be up-to-date.

  113. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Armadillos – they make ’em tough. Keep talking.

  114. egg_

    Phatty Adams & Vitrioli knit a sanctimonious kangaroo on Krudd’s behalf – dropping a few stitches on the way.

  115. Andrew

    Excellent post Andrew.

    Costello wasn’t a shoe in. He came across as a smirking, smug private school boy who was too clever by half. People respected his skills but didn’t want him as PM. In any case he wouldn’t have won that election, nobody would have. After years of responsibility the electorate wanted a binge and so we got it. Many also believed the media that Rudd would merely be a kinder gentler John Howard and not really do anything differently.

    Thanks Twostix and I agree with your post as well. I am no fan of Michael Kroger but his interview with Jon Faine last year hits the nail on the head with Costello. Peter just bags out anyone at every opportunity, excluding his former staffers.

  116. stackja

    Mike Carlton uses the term ‘mad monk’.
    Pope Francis probably hates homosexuality but will love the prodigal homosexual. MSM as usual mix up the two.

  117. val majkus

    more asylum seekers arriving
    sounds like these ones were picked up on the high seas

    and more boats on the way

  118. Rudiau

    Incredible time lapse video.

    Building a Hotel in Six Days: China’s Construction Miracle, in One Video

    Reforming labor laws — and enforcing building codes — is one of China’s long-term challenges, so eventually stricter laws might make such lightning-speed construction projects less common. But in the meantime, residents in cities such as Changsha can still have the unsettling experience of going on vacation for a week — and seeing a brand new hotel pop up when they get back.

  119. dover_beach

    You’re probably right, stackja. BTW, the parable of the Prodigal Son is one of my favourite biblical stories.

  120. val majkus

    Many also believed the media that Rudd would merely be a kinder gentler John Howard and not really do anything differently

    more fool them – Rudd’s words and policy promises are not to be trusted
    YOUR GUIDE TO WHAT THE ALP PROMISED:
    http://alexschlotzer.wordpress.com/alp-election-promises/
    He’s now saying he took dismantling of the Pacific Solution to that election. Not so! That’s a misstatement of the truth. The only policy which was delivered was I think the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol.

  121. Gab

    He’s now saying he took dismantling of the Pacific Solution to that election.

    Val , he’s said that repeatedly over the last two weeks and no one in the media dares to question him on it.

  122. calli

    the parable of the Prodigal Son is one of my favourite biblical stories

    Mine too, Dover. I love the way the father runs to meet his wayward son, and doesn’t just stand at the door waiting and tapping his foot in disapproval. It’s a beautiful picture of authentic love.

  123. Lucie

    Disappointing if that’s true of Costello.

    So Rudiau, Virginia Trioli is one of the most conservative at the ABC? Oy. Can’t forgive her for the rude, unprofessional way she behaved on camera in relation to Barnaby Joyce.

  124. calli

    My other favourite is the woman with the costly jar of perfume (though this isn’t a parable, except as it applies to some of us).

  125. Infidel Tiger

    I have always identified with Noah getting drunk. Like all decent benders that story makes no sense whatsoever.

  126. jupes

    He’s now saying he took dismantling of the Pacific Solution to that election. Not so! That’s a misstatement of the truth.

    Never fear. Mr Trioli at the ABC’s elite fact checking unit will be ridiculing this in a matter of seconds.

  127. Love all of the above, actually. Noah getting drunk is often forgotten about, but who can blame him under the circumstances. Imagine all that time on a boat with your in-laws.

  128. Rudiau

    I got one, I got one, Yay.

    Yep, Trioli has Leftaria, bad.

  129. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Oops my mistake. nevertheless, I would still be interested as it is not fiction; and you got me at “ancient documents”.

    Gab, it is a fascinating period to explore, the ‘End of Civilisation’, as Brian Ward-Perkins sub-titles his elegant and readable little book ‘The Fall of Rome’, a period in which I became interested in a rather roundabout way. Much of any interest my tale has lies in this fact and the willingness of Da Hairy Ape to drive me around to various interesting places in Britain and Ireland to gather together some ideas. I think I have uncovered something significant, a mistake which has been unfairly blamed on a poor little frozen monk blotting his copybook three centuries later in his scriptorium as he bemoans the approach of the Viking longships come summertime. Let us restore him to his place in the sun. Gab, you can start with Gildas, De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae. Whole conferences have been held on this alone. You will have to brush up on your Latin as you may need to go back to the original. 🙂

    I love being cryptic. I will write in cryptic to keep up the interest; then I shall deliver the goods. The material is dense and difficult and I don’t want to do it in an academic style. The research never stops.

    Four children and one Hairy Irish Ape to take care of make time one of my problems – or excuses?
    Whatever. It keeps me out of mischief. That and the Cat.

  130. calli

    IT, I was on a boat for 10 days with a bunch of snobby Poms. I completely understand Noah’s response to being cooped up with a lot of stinky critters! (No offence meant to any of British extraction on this blog…but these people were truly insufferable) 🙂

  131. calli

    Ya beat me to it Philippa. In-laws vs. snobs…it’s a difficult pick.

  132. The more I hear about Da Hairy Irish Ape, the more I like him. He is most definitely a keeper, Lizzie. Well done, that female!

  133. blogstrop

    I don’t agree with those who bag Costello. There has been nobody since who outdoes him in either management or the cut & thrust (what some people call the laying on of gloves) of political debate.
    He was good in either the media ring or the parliamentary bear pit.
    His record as treasurer should be the envy of all.

  134. Tintarella di Luna

    Gee, I used to love fishing. Not one bite! I’m losing my touch.

    I saw that Rudi but the bait was so revolting – Vitrioli has that lean-eyed crazed look- a cross between a fishwife and a ravenous vulture

  135. Steve of Glasshouse

    Phillipa..I want to know who carried / saved all of the nasty bacterial and viral infections on board, so as to repopulate the earth after the deluge..And now you know why I was always in trouble during RE at the Chrisitan Brother’s school 🙂

  136. And now you know why I was always in trouble during RE at the Chrisitan Brother’s school

    Not necessary. The letter I received this morning from your former headmaster explained it all very clearly.

  137. Steve of Glasshouse

    Bastard is still after me after 25 years in the grave..

  138. m0nty

    Phillipa, are you as devout as you want Abbott to be? Can I start calling you the Nutty Nun?

  139. Tintarella di Luna

    Philippa Mary Bernadette Jacinta Martyr do not engage!!!

  140. Monty, you can call me anything you like, as long as you don’t call me late for dinner.

    I am far, far, far, far more devout than Tony Abbott.

    I can open doors by sheer force of prayer.

    I can leap tall buildings due to my tremendous sanctity.

    I can also change water into wine, after I’ve walked on it.

    I bilocate regularly.

    The Pope has me on speed-dial.

  141. blogstrop

    Lizzie, I’ve just started Bring Up The Bodies, and again Mantel’s ability to take you there is amazing.

  142. Philippa Mary Bernadette Jacinta Martyr do not engage!!!

    But I must. It is my duty. PS I rather wish those WERE my middle names, or at the very least my Confirmation name.

    My actual Confirmation name is Attila.

  143. Bastard is still after me after 25 years in the grave..

    Damn straight.

  144. blogstrop

    Bilocate? I’m sure there’s medication for that.

  145. Infidel Tiger

    Phillipa, you should check into Lonely Man from Brisbane’s blog. He’s quite fond of you and has made some sort of shrine.

  146. Steve of Glasshouse

    Don’t forget that Philippa gets correspondence from dead people..
    Jeez, you don’t work for the ATO do you?

  147. Bilocate? I’m sure there’s medication for that.

    You should try it some time. It’s how I get everything done.

  148. m0nty

    Well that’s alright then Phillippa. I just thought it curious that someone would wish Abbott was just this side of beatification, if they weren’t also a chronic Godbotherer themselves. Carry on.

  149. Tintarella di Luna

    My actual Confirmation name is Attila.

    Mine’s Cecilia the patron saint of music

  150. JC

    Monty, you can call me anything you like, as long as you don’t call me late for dinner.

    Imagine if it were him being called late for dinner. He’d eat his own limb… Raw!

  151. Mine’s Cecilia the patron saint of music

    My nephew’s is Ignatius (of Loyola), so we will be celebrating that tomorrow.

    In a modest way.

    Just one or two Pontifical High Masses (Latin, of course), wherein I will enliven proceedings by levitating.

    Must remember to wear the extra-long mantilla.

  152. calli

    How lovely, Tinta. I have been to the church in Rome dedicated to her! My beloved and I were in Trastevere on a Sunday and heard church bells…and followed them…and that’s where we ended up.

    A cardinal was visiting and the music was just…divine…and that’s from a low church Proddy! 🙂

  153. Gab

    St. Ignatius of Loyola

    I once attempted the The Spiritual Exercises under the guidance of a nun. I lasted eight weeks. Way too heavy for me, clearly I wasn’t ready.

  154. Phillipa, you should check into Lonely Man from Brisbane’s blog. He’s quite fond of you and has made some sort of shrine.

    LOL

    Poor poppet. You know, I actually forget about SfB for quite long periods of time, and then someone reminds me that he’s not here any more, and I have that Gene Kelly singing-in-the-rain feeling all over again.

    But I still don’t visit his blog. Twice was enough, and like I said before, that’s 80 seconds of my life I’ll never have again.

    Which reminds me – time to check in on my poor darling Bob:

    Unlike Morgan, which rings mobiles and asks its respondents who their second preferences will go to, Newspoll, Galaxy, ReachTEL and Essential do not.

    I ask that they be put in gaol.

    I wish I was making that up, but I’m not.

  155. Tintarella di Luna

    Via Bolt:

    D’Ath by a thousand cuts.

    Why here are her; Qualifications and occupation before entering Federal Parliament – what a pedigree

    GradDip in Legal Practice (ANU), LLB (QUT).
    Various clerical and hospitality positions 1985-92.
    Associate, Queensland Industrial Relations Commission 1992-94.
    Senior Industrial Advocate, Australian Workers’ Union 1994-2007.

  156. I once attempted the The Spiritual Exercises under the guidance of a nun. I lasted eight weeks. Way too heavy for me, clearly I wasn’t ready.

    He’s not for everyone. But he had a very interesting life.

  157. blogstrop

    IT, recommending a visit to Gollum from Brisbane’s blog is mischievous!

  158. calli

    On the question of boat people/refugees I often wonder what Jesus would do.

    Then you should ask him, Eloise.

  159. Gab

    IT, recommending a visit to Gollum from Brisbane’s blog is mischievous!

    IT misses him and has the burden of being his only freind. I believe they once went squirrelspotting in a Melbourne park after many hours of imbibing something or other, legal though it was..

  160. Then you should ask him, Eloise.

    Time for another Amen – this time courtesy of Handel.

  161. m0nty

    Jesus was an Austrian, surely. You can’t get much more classical than Jesus.

  162. Wrong again. He was an Englishman. And there’s DNA to prove it.

    Well, sort of.

  163. calli

    As a Proddy, I would give Tinta Purcell’s ‘Ode for St. Cecilia’s Day’…except that I’m useless at linkies.

    As for the baiting, this old bird’s been around for way too long…

  164. dover_beach

    If there were a mirror site of sfb’s blog I’d have a look but I absolutely refuse to add one view to his blog’s sitemeter.

  165. Here you go, Tinta. With best wishes from one mackerel-snapper to another.

  166. calli, I have provided room service, again with my best wishes from a mackerel-snapper to a low church Proddy.

    Ecumenism, Cat-style.

  167. Infidel Tiger

    If there were a mirror site of sfb’s blog I’d have a look but I absolutely refuse to add one view to his blog’s sitemeter.

    Then you are missing out on seeing Philippa in a bikini.

  168. Lucie

    My Confirmation name actually is Bernadette (Cecilia’s much prettier) – patron of bodily ills (must’ve been impressed by the healing waters idea) shepherds…and people ridiculed for their piety! So I will pass on a prayer for you, Philippa, for relief from tormentors like monty, who seems to consider too much integrity a sin.

  169. stackja

    ALP electorate high jinks.

    TIMELINE OF SYDNEY SHOOTINGS IN JULY 2013
    July 29: Bike associate Bassil Hijazi and Earlwood man Vasko Boskovsk shot dead in apparently unrelated incidents.
    July 25: Man shot in leg outside Smithfield kebab shop and man shot in leg at Wentworthville swimming pool carpark in separate incidents within an hour of each other, while shots fired in Guildford street five hours earlier
    July 24: Shots fired in Canley Heights home, not bikie related
    July 22: Man in his mid-40s turns up at hospital after being shot in Fairfield
    July 21: Man, 32, whose son has links to the Commanchero bikies shot in the upper body in St Marys
    July 16: Commanchero associate Bassil Hijazi, 19, shot in the neck in Bexley
    July 13: Shots fired into a house in South Granville three women inside unharmed
    July 12: Hells Angel nominee Ali Jammas executed in front of a home in Thorpe St, Abbotsbury
    July 8: Hells Angel nominee Tyrone Slemnik, 37, dies and a man, 25, is critically injured in a targeted shooting in Eastlakes.

  170. Then you are missing out on seeing Philippa in a bikini.

    LOL LOL LOL

    Nah, still not biting. Nice try, though.

  171. calli

    Ecumenism, Cat-style.

    Why, thank you Philippa. You are a scholar and a gentlewoman.

  172. Steve of Glasshouse

    Eloise ” On the question of boat people/refugees I often wonder what Jesus would do.”

    Build better boats?

  173. So I will pass on a prayer for you, Philippa, for relief from tormentors like monty, who seems to consider too much integrity a sin.

    Oh, poor old monty’s not a torment, any more than SfB was. And like I say, I forget about them for ages at a time. It’s probably good to be reminded, though.

    I saw the website with the infamous photos of monty in real life, and while they weren’t very appealing, his photos of Tasmania were actually very good. It’s a photogenic place, but even allowing for it, they were charming.

  174. Lucie

    Jesus would’ve opened his home up to the hordes. Just like Phillip Adams.

  175. Potemkin’s Village

    Every action in our lives touches… here

  176. Steve of Glasshouse

    Lucie..instead of tent city, let’s build stable city..

  177. PS I hope Mrs SfB knows he’s spending all that time on me …

    good afternoon Catsters, and thank you for your company –

    ttfn

  178. Token

    P.S. Is Eloise really Francois in drag?

    Seems like someone is wearing a lot of different dresses at the moment…Vicky, Eloise, Francois…

  179. calli

    Tents are grossly underrated. If we’re going to go ‘all Biblical’ then they were more than adequate for the Israelites (40 years or so). Abraham also used them to great advantage. It seems that Lot, however, dipped out when it came to a ‘city’.

    Modern tents are probably much more convenient and attractive.

  180. Lucie

    Just joking, Steve. Don’t think Jesus would’ve approved of country shoppers scamming the system, or people bludging off others.

  181. Token

    My actual Confirmation name is Attila.

    A good Hungarian Catholic name I believe…St Attila is linked to a very important relic critical in holy quest detailed in a interesting independent movie.

  182. JC

    I dunno Frank. Why do you show up with a frog man’s name and then pretend you’re a girl?

  183. Tintarella di Luna

    Philippa
    Thank you – beautiful symphony and the singing of Hail bright Cecilia was out of this world – the music thrilling – what rendition – thank goodness I waited the 5 seconds of some earnest lumpy community worker who thinks putting a poofteen of money into education just because-others might not have had the resolve but all those novenas and chapel attendance is excellent discipline

    Grigory

    Quite

  184. Token

    That saint is mentioned in the Book of Armaments I believe Phillipa.

  185. What would Jesus do? He told a story about Samaritan who saw a naked, half-dead cove on the side of the road and, feeling sorry for the poor bloke, gave him first aid, took him to the nearest motel, and looked after him for the night. Next day, before the Samaritan continued his journey, he paid his bill, and handed over a few extra notes to the receptionist, saying,‘Take care of this geezer, on me; I promise that I’ll pop back later to make sure everything’s ace. I’ll see you right if you have to spend extra.”
    Note that the neighbourly Samaritan did not dump the wounded bloke on a stranger, or on the State, and he didn’t force anyone else to be charitable. So, I suspect that Jesus would advocate that people be charitable;but he would not—as do those sanctimonious hypocrites Julian Burnside and Phillip Adams, who vociferously pretend to be piously humanitarian while expecting others to do the hard yards—merely insist that others be charitable.

  186. egg_

    and more boats on the way

    But, but… Kapitan Krudd twittered that he’d wrecked the smugglers’ business?

  187. Snoopy

    Why does Tony need to build a tent city on Nauru when he says he will send the boats back?

    Because he going to send all the illegals currently in Australian mainland camps to Nauru? I would.

  188. Infidel Tiger

    Why does Tony need to build a tent city on Nauru when he says he will send the boats back?

    To house leftists before the executions begin.

  189. calli

    I suspect that Jesus would advocate that people be charitable;but he would not—as do those sanctimonious hypocrites Julian Burnside and Phillip Adams, who vociferously pretend to be piously humanitarian while expecting others to do the hard yards—merely insist that others be charitable

    Well said, Deadman. Back in the early ’80’s, people who wished to be ‘charitable’ to refugees could sponsor them. They raised money to bring them to Australia, house them, clothe them and help them with English lessons, and ultimately become useful members of society. Along with several others, I helped bring an extended family of Vietnamese refugees here. Religious persuasion had nothing at all to do with it – these people were Buddhists, and in need.

    Somehow, this personal choice has morphed into a ‘duty’ for the Australian taxpayer.

  190. Jack Spratt

    An asylum seeker good news story from Miranda Devine.
    Sam waited in the queue, made the most of the land of opportunity, and when he was able he repaid his Centrelink welfare money.
    We need more Sams.

  191. Armadillo

    He’s quite fond of you and has made some sort of shrine.

    Glad you didn’t fall for that one Philippa. I mean, since when has a stake surrounded by firewood been classified as “a shrine”?

  192. Steve of Glasshouse

    Lucie..I so like the idea of a stable city, with all of the Christian trappings.. Can boats do a smoking u turn if they hear that? 🙂

  193. Lucie

    Quite so, Deadman and calli. Jesus was all about the personal – not the state. He didn’t have much time for lawyers…and probably would’ve considered someone like Adams a ‘Pharisee’.

  194. Septimus

    Goddlemighty … Combet’s squeeze on the ABC News tonight looks like a lollipop.

  195. Tintarella di Luna

    Modern tents are probably much more convenient and attractive.

    Kockkup Kev talked about strangers in our midst and with this talk of tents puts me in mind of a poem from 3rd class read by – Sister Margaret Mary circa 1963-

    A Stranger came one night to Youssef’s tent saying
    Behold one outcast and in dread

  196. Tintarella di Luna

    Goddlemighty … Combet’s squeeze on the ABC News tonight looks like a lollipop.

    Septimus you have my commiserations for the lollipop shock – avoiding the ALPBC at all costs has worked for me but I know the old saying know thine enemy so thanks to taking a hit in that good cause

  197. Jarrah

    “So, I suspect that Jesus would advocate that people be charitable;but he would not—as do those sanctimonious hypocrites Julian Burnside and Phillip Adams, who vociferously pretend to be piously humanitarian while expecting others to do the hard yards—merely insist that others be charitable.”

    I have a lot of sympathy for this point of view. What immediately springs to mind, however, are the numerous occasions where Christians ‘insist’ others adhere to Christian principles in other areas, in the sense that they try to get laws changed to reflect their POV. The obvious candidate is abortion, though I’m reluctant to open up that can of worms. I’m pretty sure we’re sophisticated enough to discuss the general principle without devolving into a scrap about abortion.

  198. Leigh Lowe

    July 25: Man shot in leg outside Smithfield kebab shop …..

    In car with a mate near Broady a few weeks ago, and asked him what the new shop was in the shopping strip.
    “It’s a drive-through kebab restaurant” he said.
    “Surely you mean a drive-by kebab restaurant” I replied.
    We both laughed …. but only a little bit.

  199. Token

    Take it to the abortion thread Jarrah

  200. Tintarella di Luna

    Septimus this might help – the words and music are a hoot

  201. entropy

    Separation of church and state is pretty important Jarrah. Somehow, though, when people are using Christian faith as a reason to do ‘x’, it most often is a justification for what they want to do anyway.

  202. kae

    Bankstown and Campsie in Sydney have drive-by police stations.

  203. val majkus

    and more boats on the way

    seems strange that these arrived per Australian patrol boat when there was no news of a boat in distress
    I think the Govt will do what it can to submerge news of asylum boat arrival

  204. Steve of Glasshouse

    Just listened to that Nina Lyhne piece over at time Blair’s site. I’d pay good money to hear the
    reporter say sufferin’ succotash or biggus dickis.

  205. Jarrah

    “Take it to the abortion thread Jarrah”

    You did read the part where I don’t want the discussion about abortion, right? Besides, despite being alerted to the problem, neither Sinclair or Jacques has done anything about the fact the ‘Ongoing Debates’ are now closed to further comments ever since the revamp.

  206. 1735099

    The market at work – Toll Holdings flies Scott Morrison to Nauru.
    Ain’t commerce wonderful…….

  207. calli

    Separation of church and state is pretty important Jarrah

    And on that I heartily agree, Entropy.

    When the church aligns with the state, the church can only lose and the state gain, hence the great ‘need’ for politicians of every ilk to gain the approval of the church. There is a good quote somewhere out there, but my web searching skills are pitiful.

  208. candy

    “Why does Tony need to build a tent city on Nauru when he says he will send the boats back?

    I thinks that’s a really good question, Eloise, and I’ve been thinking about the tent city thing today. I feel bad about people living in tents and all that goes with that, no matter what reason, it’s people living in tents for who know how long.

    I wish we could go back in time and Mr Howard’s solution was not dismantled. But Mr Rudd did so, and now the asylum seeker problem has taken on a life of its own. Out of control.

    My faith is still in Tony Abbott to actually stop the boats.

  209. Token

    Jarrah, you are doing what you are so quick to accuse me of, quite clearly trolling the thread.

  210. egg_

    Ain’t commerce wonderful…….

    Should he have flown in a biplane from the Govt Aircraft Factory?

  211. Empire Strikes Back

    Infidel Tiger
    #941636, posted on July 30, 2013 at 6:50 pm
    It was meant to be kept secret until after the election IT. You know the drill, don’t upset the cattle on the way to the Abbottoir. It only makes it worse for all involved.

  212. Gab

    The trip to Nauru was facilitated by Toll Holdings, which has multimillion-dollar contracts already to help handle asylum seekers and is eager for more business in the area.

    WELL AT LEAST aBBOTT ISN’T DOING WHAT rUDD IS ALREADY DOING AND SUCKING THE TAXPAYERS DRY. sO YEAH, COMMERCE IS GRAND.

  213. Steve of Glasshouse

    Plenty of eco resorts promote living in tents..Glamping..

  214. Gab

    OOPS, cap locks now off.

  215. dover_beach

    Sorry, Jarrah, but I’m not sure what you’ve stated exactly follows from Deadman’s remarks unless you’re imputing that anti-abortionists are sanctimonious hypocrites. And even if we pass over this error, I don’t believe that abortion is a matter of personal morality as is charity.

  216. egg_

    My faith is still in Tony Abbott to actually stop the boats.

    Immediately on change of Govt hands – Sunshine troll didn’t accept the wager, how say you Eloise?

  217. blogstrop

    Why does Eloise, like the 80% of the MSM, keep pretending that reducing boaties is solved by one and one only measure? Eloise, get smart of piss off.
    How to stop the boats has been demonstrated. It’s a collection of measures. It’s not pretty.
    It’s not, as much as you want it to be for propaganda purposes, a three word slogan.
    Not in the proposition, nor in the refutation.

  218. Gab

    Honestly these leftards are stupid. They’ll pick on Abbott for the tiniest thing yet Rudd tells some all out whoppers and the media bow down to his lies.

    TOLL flies Morrison to Nauru, big fucking Eddie Obeid whoop!

  219. rafiki

    I have been at work for most of the time since my early post, so apologies for not acknowledging responses (except to the idiot who described me as a leftward troll, to whom I say “grow up”). I would much rather see Abbott win in a landslide than Turnbull, but there is no such result in prospect. Indeed, Abbott might get beaten. This report in the Sun-Herald of just a day ago sums up where we stand:

    “An exclusive Galaxy Poll for the Herald Sun also reveals Mr Rudd has clawed back economic credibility for Labor to be level-pegging on that crucial issue with Mr Abbott.
    But while Mr Rudd enjoys a big lead as preferred PM, the poll shows if Malcolm Turnbull became Liberal leader, he would streak ahead of Mr Rudd.”

    Incredible I know, but that’s where we are. Unlike others here, I am not content to see Rudd return in preference to a Turnbull led Coalition. I also feel that Turnbull is more likely to put the Liberals in a winning position in the future, given his support among younger voters.

    Switching leaders can be done. If it isn’t, and Abbott loses, his reputation is shattered and the Liberals will probably split. And this result is in prospect.

    Thankyou Sinclair for providing a public space to air my view, unpopular as it is.

  220. dover_beach

    Separation of church and state is pretty important Jarrah. Somehow, though, when people are using Christian faith as a reason to do ‘x’, it most often is a justification for what they want to do anyway.

    When William Wilberforce was rallying against the Atlantic slave trade, was he threatening the seperation of Church and State, leaving aside the fact that in Great Britain there was no such seperation at the time? Similarly, are people that are affronted by the dismemberment and destruction of children in the womb really only using their faith as a reason to do or not do X and only self-servingly?

  221. Gab

    “Why does Tony need to build a tent city on Nauru when he says he will send the boats back?

    Well given the ungrateful turds burned down the facility just last week, how would you expect them to house the influx created by Rudd & gillard? Perhaps they can be housed at your place?

  222. Gab

    What? You don”t have room at your place? How about we out up some tents to house them temporarily while another building is being built on Nauru? Sounds like a good idea.

  223. kae

    There are people in Australia who live in tents. They’re called homeless. In fact there are Australians who live on the street.

    A very comfortable time can be had living in a tent.

    Our military personnel live in tents in many areas where they are deployed.

    There is no hardship for these economic refugees living in tents. Why should they get everything to make life luxurious on the taxpayer teat?

    I lived in a tent with a group of women in Singleton in the 70s. The tent was quite comfortable and we had a bush shower and sani-pan toilets (I hate sani-pans, they stink). The refugees would have it a lot better in their modern tents with modern toilets and shower blocks than I had it for two weeks in summer in 1978.

  224. Gab

    Val, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Rudd has put – or will put – a media blackout on all boat arrivals.

    Not the done thing to have these asylum seekers turn up before an election and after the announcement of Rudd’s latest cock-eyed inhumane plan to address a problem he created in the first place.

  225. blogstrop

    Perhaps they can be housed at your place?

    Exactly. All pro-reffos should from this point forward publish their home addresses and indicate how many they already accommodate, and how many more they can fit in.

    If they have none and are offering to accommodate none, they should be no longer heard.

    This is a national issue that relates absolutely to the local.

  226. candy

    Rafiki,
    Very disloyal to suggest leadership change a few weeks before an election.

    It’s like saying to Tony Abbott, everything you’ve done for the last three years is meaningless and winning is all that matters and we’re desperate, so bugger off.

  227. egg_

    An exclusive Galaxy Poll for the Herald Sun also reveals Mr Rudd has clawed back economic credibility for Labor to be level-pegging on that crucial issue with Mr Abbott.

    MOSE* error margin ±3% < 5k samples.
    Say 2pp goes to 53% LNP 47% ALP with a sliding trend, what say you then?

    *Depends on how the questions are framed (theoretical, practical margin is greater).

  228. Gab

    Bloggy, that’s already been done under gillard who paid people to put up asylum seekers. IIRC, they got around 20 people to open their doors.

  229. blogstrop

    20 – and that was with a govt. payout.

  230. Armadillo

    Rafiki,

    Bolta and Price talking exactly about your post on 2GB right now.

  231. Steve of Glasshouse

    Here’s a thought; why don’t the leftards and advocates promote a sponsorship system for asylum seekers.
    20 leftards or whatever number can put up a bond, provide accomodation etc etc for an asylum seeker.
    Problem solvered peeples..

  232. Ellen of Tasmania

    Seperation of Church and State can’t mean separation of religion/worldview and state. We all get our moral ideas from somewhere. Abortion is a public issue because we believe that murder is a public issue.

    Lots of non-Christians like living in a society that embraces Christian morality and law. We’ll see what we think of a society run on Secular Humanist morals and laws as it slowly unfolds before us, although I doubt it will be consistent.

  233. Septimus

    Tinta – thank you. This song seems appropriate too.

  234. Tom

    Here’s a thought; why don’t the leftards and advocates promote a sponsorship system for asylum seekers.

    BECAUSE THEY WANT TO FORCE US AND OUR MONEY TO DO IT.

    It’s always someone else’s money. The left thinks it can force the people who work for a living and pay taxes to pay for the left’s socialist fantasies.

    YOU WANT IT SO BAD, YOU FUCKING PAY FOR IT, SHITKICKERS.

  235. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “He’s now saying he took dismantling of the Pacific Solution to that election. Not so! That’s a misstatement of the truth.”

    Is that what they teach the kiddies now? Does it render de-truthing merely un-good rather than plain wrong? It’s a bit like when the No 2 man in the free world “mis-spoke” about the sniper fire she was under in Bosnia which never, ever happened.

    “Lie” used sound so efficient and accurate.

  236. Tintarella di Luna

    Tinta – thank you. This song seems appropriate too.

    now that’s smilin’ and foot tappin’ music Cheers Septimus

  237. Lucie

    I agree, candy. It’s Tony Abbott who’s put the Coalition within reach of winning the election. To dump him now, despite all he’s done, on the basis of some polls that say Turnbull’s the flavour of the month, is just chaotic Labor stuff.

    The problem is people who will be swayed to vote Labor/Greens regardless of who’s in charge of the Coalition, and people who are sucked in by Rudd’s bizarre ‘charisma’. It’s not normal, so you can’t really do much about it in the short term, not to any real good effect, certainly not by going back to putting in charge the eco-merchant-banker who had the party in the doldrums before Abbott took over.

  238. jupes

    Switching leaders can be done. If it isn’t, and Abbott loses, his reputation is shattered and the Liberals will probably split. And this result is in prospect.

    Get a grip you clown. Consider:

    1. Krudd smashed Turnball last time they were both leaders.
    2. Abbott smashed Krudd last time they were both leaders.
    3. Changing leaders will split the party – look at Labor FFS. Sticking with Abbott will not.
    4. Stability is a very big advantage that the Coalition has over Labor.
    5. Turnball as leader would turn the Coalition into the Labor Party. Only more competent.
    6. Turnball believes that preventing us from choosing our own light bulbs will save the planet. Seriously.

  239. Armadillo

    2GB – Coalition needs to play the ball and not the man. Dead set right. It shouldn’t be about Rimmer, it should be about the last 6 years of these incompetent idiots. Rimmers just trying to re-write history and pretend he had nothing to do with it.

  240. Gab

    When you think about it, Turnbull was the first to increase our electricity prices through forcing us to use those damn poisonous to humans and the environment “green” light bulbs.

  241. pete m

    AAP understands Toll runs regular charter flights to the island nation and Mr Morrison may have just hitched a ride.

    Comment has been sought from Mr Morrison’s office and Toll.

    In the past, Mr Morrison has asked the government if he could join official flights to Christmas Island to inspect the asylum seeker detention centre there.

    He has said those requests were turned down.

    A Toll Group spokesman said the company sent some senior executives to Nauru to assess the situation before some potential logistics work flagged by both the government and coalition.

    There were spare seats on the plane which were offered to Mr Morrison.

    “There was no significant extra cost to allow non-Toll passengers on the trip,” the spokesman said in a statement to AAP.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/morrison-nauru-trip-under-spotlight/story-e6frfku9-1226688327807#ixzz2aWXmsQzB

    Get stuffed numbers.

    Govt forces coalition to use private means to keep the bastards honest and you then join the media – labor hyped frenzy claiming some sort of business corruption. Toll ALREADY have govt contracts to do the work so FUCK OFF you clown.

  242. Steve of Glasshouse

    Tom..I think you have a case of the S.H.I.T.S.

    Socialistic Haranguing Induced Tourette’s Syndrome

    Don’t let the leftards get to you..

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