Question climate change in school, or how to get expelled

Last week I received this email from a Cat reader:

I’ve come across an event – teaching climate change in schools – that may need greater attention and inquiry, and that it may be of interest to you.

My daughter attends a well off primary school in Sydney’s lower north shore. I attended a ‘meet the teacher/parent’ night, where this years’ Unit of Inquiry was announced to be climate change. The whole course – from what I’ve read- is presupposing the most dramatic of CAGW, and the children are being asked – for a first project – to find a photo of the horrible impact of CAGW.

I have raised this with the school, and asked why they are presupposing CAGW. The school denies it is, but does not represent any contrary claims – and I had to introduce Ian Plimer’s book “How to get expelled from school” as a resource to them.

This concerns me greatly. My daughter is already talking of lone polar bears afloat on icebergs drifting in a sea of CAGW. I’ve been trying to redress the imbalance, but the whole course is weighted to the ‘pro’ argument, there is little opposition.

For a school such as this one to hold the values of inquiry and debate, yet simultaneously teach without opposition CAGW, leads me to think they are either being mandated to do so, or there’s an unwritten directive?

I think this deserves greater attention – does the syllabus demand CAGW be taught?

So young minds are being exposed to extremist propaganda.

Then yesterday Deadman reported that his 17 year old had gotten himself into a spot of bother:

My 17 y.o. son, at a packed electoral meeting in the Town Hall for young people today, could not help himself when Nick McKim brought out the ol’ 97% lie—of the supposed consensus of scientists who support the pseudo-scientific conjecture of AGW—and, when he had the microphone in hand, said “Please stop lying; the 97% statistic if f*cking bullshit, and you f*cking know it, you c*nt.”
This was, he concedes, a tad rude but The Greens of all people should appreciate the triumph of feelings over rational argument.

Yes, well. What’s happening next? Alfred tells:

I have just received a phone call from one of the assistant principals of Hobart College bidding me to meet her tomorrow morning to discuss my uncivil language at the electoral meeting.
I shall provide a report.

Deadman is supporting his son.

Well, it will be interesting to hear Alfred’s report of this morning’s meeting when he comes home from school today because I just had a call from one of the vice principals, Vanessa Warren, who wants me to attend a hearing with her and my son (and, perhaps—for she was not too clear—, the principal as well). She spoke of suspending* Alfred for what she asserted was grossly offensive language. I put it to her that Alfred was not there as a representative of Hobart College and that no impartial observer would have reason to believe that he was representing the school thereat but she maintained that he was “right in the middle of a large group” from the school which, apparently, gives the school authority to determine speech codes in public fora. I also told her that I (and judicial precedent) did not consider Alfred’s robust and admittedly intemperate words to be remarkably offensive, but that made her even more breathlessly incoherent.
At some stage tomorrow I shall probably feel obliged to mention that I have ’blogs and I’m not afraid to use them.

* suspending! what a threat!

Excellent.

I do have to say, however, that calling a Greens politician a “cunt”, while probably satisfying, is over the top and deserving of some reprimand – although expulsion is probably an over-reaction.* Especially given that young excitable minds should not be exposed to extremist left-wing views during school hours. What were they thinking?

For those wanting to engage in a letter writing exercise, Grigory Potemkin has very kindly provided the details. Please be civil and sign your real name in any letters.

*Even by our very lax – some might say “low” – standards we don’t approve of such language here at the Cat.

Update: Alfred describes the meeting he had today (emphasis added):

Today I had a meeting with one of the Vice Principals of Hobart College to discuss my actions at the electoral forum on Tuesday. From what the VP said, it seems that the main cause for alarm is my language in calling the knowingly deceitful Nick McKim a liar, as calling someone a liar is worse then calling someone a c*nt. After agreeing with me that she has no right to take away my rights, the VP confined me to a room by myself. (Another member of the staff later admitted to me that he didn’t know it existed.)
I managed to record the forty minutes of conversation between me and the VP and, for the last twenty minutes or so, a social worker (or the like), wherein I learned that the school had had some contact with Nick McKim’s office—but she provided no further details (I was so astonished that my eyebrow went up a sixteenth of an inch and my monocle slipped from my eye-socket). She had no intention to advise my parents, by the way, until I insisted that she call my father.

This is starting to look like a ‘Politician bullies school boy’ story.

This entry was posted in Education. Bookmark the permalink.

670 Responses to Question climate change in school, or how to get expelled

  1. Arnost

    Old school conservative:

    The use of foul language at a public forum takes away all credibility from the otherwise brave and correct premise of the argument.

    Agree – so get the kid to wash his/her mouth out with soap. End of story.

    It’s a leftie swooning exercise pretending mortal insult to make a point. Suspension straight away? It’s a over the top response – clearly an exercise aimed at shutting down dissent. And who cares about the record / future of the kid… FFS – the kid wasn’t at school! A suspension is what you get for decking the teacher – for the third time if the kid is of a privileged disadvantaged ethno-cultural background.

  2. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Ostracism is very very hard on a young person, one should never overlook or underplay that ever.

    Yes, well said Candy. Alfred is only seventeen and may take it more to heart than appearances would suggest. As an eleven year old child at a ‘school dinner’ (free lunch) in the UK I was forced to sit recalcitrant for an hour in front of a considerably disgusting uneaten piece corned-beef meatloaf that I had unwisely selected for my plate. Everyone else went out to play and then on to class as I cried slowly and tearlessly to myself alone on the long bench. I felt unable to take the option of just ‘trying a little of it’ because then I reasoned that it would not be available untainted for the poor starving children elsewhere who seemed to feature in the homilies of my mentors. I stuck by my principles and they stuck by their rules. I don’t think I’ve ever really got over that. Scarred for life.

  3. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    On the matter of indoctrination of the young – Mrs the Missus was watching something named Django Unchained, directed by Quentin Tarantino. I am aware Tarantino made about two exceptional movies (Reservoir Dogs and Inglourious Basterds) and is famous and applauded for making rubbish almost all the time. He talks psychobabble and grunts, like Charlie Manson and that fabulous junkie imposter Bob Dylan, and people think its intellectual manna from heaven.

    I tried to watch it for about 20 minutes, discovered it was a “spaghetti western” take off attacking the USA – white people in the USA – for buying lower caste African product offered by despotic African tribal chieftains a couple of centuries ago, then going to war (like the British) to have them stop. I imagine it has been Oscared by the Hollywood luvvies for bagging their own country.

    I withdrew shaking my head but, puzzled, I consulted IMDB, a film information and discussion site, to find out what it was all about.

    Whaddya know – the kiddy reviewers and commenters have been taught so effectively that the few candid dissenting opinions about a thoroughly racist offering have been hounded out of the room as racists.

    The approved mantra, adopted by Hobart College, that non-believers are to be converted, subjugated or killed, and that lying deals and war are valid methods to achieve this end, is now deeply embedded in education of the unprotected young from an early age. These children will never know how to discover facts and data and objectivity, and the marvelous freedom that offers to arrive at sound and credible conclusions.

  4. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Sorry – end first para should read “and people think it’s intellectual manna from heaven.”

  5. PennDragon

    When I was that age I stored up a line from the school play my mother produced (The Lady’s not for Burning), but sadly never got the opportunity to use it, “You bubble-mouthing, fog-blathering, chin-chuntering, chap-flapping, liturgical, turgidical, base old man!” When tested on friends it silenced them as they tried to work out what had been said and often they did not want to admit they could not work out what all of it meant. You need to have some fun with them and try patiently to provoke them into using the bad language. In these kinds of people it is often lurking just below the surface and can be lured out if you can find the right approach.

  6. Arnost

    Thanks Johanna… Happily concede the point. I looked to see what the rules were here in NSW and assumed they applied Federally.

  7. old bloke

    Questions that need answers:

    1. Did McKim contact the school, or did the school contact McKim?
    2. If the later, why did they contact him?
    3. Does the VP have the authority to suspend Alfred for his words?
    4. Does the VP have the authority to suspend any student in any circumstances?

    I would recommend the Deadman & Alfred attend the meeting but clearly state that the meeting is being recorded, and request that the VP issue a public apology to the full school body for what appears to be overstepping her authority.

  8. James B

    You don’t approve? You’re a pussy, mate.

    I will call any one who supports the Greens a shit eating c*nt to their face.

  9. johanna

    Arnost, no doubt some bureaucrats somewhere are busily beavering away towards that end, but at present it is one of the few things that the States are still in charge of!

  10. Andrew

    – against or harasses other people or otherwise behaves in a way that endangers the peace and good order of the school’s program or facility.

    Seems to hinge on this clause and “school organised activity.” If the school said “You really should go see this Green agitprop as it would be a really good idea for you to hear an hour of ‘Abbott666 denierbot evil planet destroying refo-burning terrorist'” then it arguably falls within this interpretation.

  11. johanna

    Andrew, that quote is from the NSW guidelines.The Tasmanian ones, linked way back, are different, and do not contain those words.

  12. Oh come on

    As I mentioned in the OT, I’m sure the Education Act in Tasmania will stipulate that all students with good standing must be provided with a certain number of hours of school tuition per year.

    If this guy wasn’t at a school-organised event or took part in a school-organised visit to an event and he wasn’t wearing a school uniform and thus it couldn’t be construed he was representing his school in any way, I can’t see grounds for suspension. I’d be looking very carefully at the Act to see if it has been breached.

  13. Mike of Marion

    Here it is early Friday AM and I would suggest to all that this thread at Catallaxy may have been drawn to the attention of the school’s VP!

    Be wary Alfred (and Dad) – the VP may stack the meeting with her cronies to protect her arse.

  14. Denise

    It is strategically stupid to use bad language because then you lose the moral high ground and give the enemy an excuse not to deal with your argument but its presentation. Also offensive to women so you lose them too.

    Don’t let them take control of the narrative by your using intemperate and loutish speech.

  15. feelthebern

    He wasn’t at school.
    He wasn’t representing the school.
    If the VP tries the “we are all representatives of the school, always” line, ask for one example where the school has acted on a school student doing something “offensive” whilst not on school grounds, whilst not at a school function.

    In NSW, Pat O’shane (before they retired her) said it wasn’t a crime & there was no penalty for using profanity towards the police.
    Using that standard, you pretty much should be able to say whatever you want to with regards to a politician.
    If I was McKim, I would probably want this issue to go away.
    I predict a suspended sentence for Alfred.
    Lest the spot light be turned upon why precisely the fuck a school vp would contact a politician regarding a student.

  16. Peter H

    Having read through all the comments on this, I think in this instance Alfred was correct and his language was perfect. McKim is standing in front of an audience as an MP and telling blatant and proven lies. So he is a “liar”, he does “fucking know it”, and he is a “fucking c*nt”.

  17. feelthebern

    The real funny thing about the VP, is she probably thinks all the faculty support her.
    & to her face, I’m sure they do.
    But I reckon she would be seen as competition by the other VP’s (how many VP’s does a 1000 student school need – is this where school funding goes to?).
    & I reckon there would be a few faculty heads eyeing off a VP role.
    & I reckon there would be a few teachers eying off a faculty head role.
    All incentivized to white ant her.
    All lining up to say…”why would she do this…just a childish prank…hmmm…hmmm….calling a politician…hmmm….maybe she needs to take some leave”.
    So about now – after having 24 hours of support to her face – she’s begins to feel paranoid.
    Then she sees other staff members talking amongst themselves.
    “Are they out to get me?” she says.

    One thing I have found out more than anything in this world, is that bullies hate public scrutiny of their behavior.

  18. Splatacrobat

    Don’t forget Alfred to get the allegations, reasons for the meeting and any sanctions/punishment in writing.

    You have a right to natural justice. You also have the right to know who your accusers are (if it includes a complaint from McKim) and have time to read, absorb, and have a right of reply.

    Yes it is good to record the meeting but a paper trail is even more powerful.
    My wife worked for a Government department and they tried to railroad her with disciplinary action. She refused to attend any meeting until she had the agenda of the meeting, charges in writing, and accuser’s statements. In the end they had to give up because they had nothing.

  19. Mike of Marion

    Splatacrobat
    #1197274, posted on February 21, 2014 at 8:22 am

    Yeah, a common tactic – I know full well.

  20. A Lurker

    One thing I have found out more than anything in this world, is that bullies hate public scrutiny of their behavior.

    Or public pushback – and if the school is reading this (waves hello) they will have learnt that Alfred has lots of adult and influential friends on the Cat who are taking a very close interest in how this pans out.

  21. boy on a bike

    Anyone remember the client scientist rap? The one that used terms like “mother*cker”?

    Swearing at these morons is not obscenity – it’s simply discussing the topic using a patois they can understand.

  22. Rabz

    So he is a “liar”, he does “fucking know it”, and he is a “fucking c*nt”.

    Remember, if loathsome, evil shitheads like the malodorous greenfilth dirtbag in question had their way, hundreds of millions of people across the globe would be ‘extincted’ thanks to genocidal greenfilth misanthropy.

    So he’s also a would be mass murderer – don’t ever forget to bring that li’l fact to their attention, Alfie.

  23. boy on a bike

    Plus a favourite tactic of these clowns is to try to shut you down when you try to speak out. If they don’t like what you are saying at a public meeting, they all start screaming and shouting to drown you out. If they don’t like the topic of the meeting, they block the entrance and try to prevent you from even attending. You risk being spat on and having stuff thrown at you and maybe the odd bit of quiet violence on the side.

    I suggest Sprog does the following next time. Take a bullhorn, and when McClown starts to speak, turn the volume up flat out and start chanting:

    Greens lie
    Greens lie
    Greens lie
    Greens lie

    Keep that up until the Police arrive and evict you.

  24. Ellen of Tasmania

    Alfred’s comment isn’t my prefered style of public discourse, but if we assume that McKim isn’t ignorant – for the sake of politeness – then we are left with the conclusion that he conciously and deliberately misled an audience of young people. That is more disgusting than what Alfred did.

  25. McKim, as then Tasmanian Education minister wanted to close down some 21 Primary Schools and reap the cash cow from the sales. Most of the schools had brand-new Gillard memorial halls and these would have made lovely offices for the new property-developer owners.

    The ALP federal lame-arse government didn’t like this but McKim told them to “f*ck-off they were his schools”. Thankfully for the Tassie community Chris Pyne was on the job. He wrote a very straight-forward letter to the greedy Greenie and the very next day McKim folded like a wet paper bag.

    McKim isn’t worth spitting on.

  26. Ellen of Tasmania

    Just on the issue of consensus science, Peter Schiff was interviewing James Pesta, English professor at the University of Wisconsin a couple of days ago about the ‘Common Core’ curriculum. Pesta had got a message from a NY mum about her grade 2 son. He was in a group who had to work out the answer to 6×7. Apparently consensus is so important that he got his answer – 42 – marked as wrong because it wasn’t the answer agreed to by the rest of the group. Their wrong answer was marked as correct.

    It’s worth remembering that they only have to convince 51% of the population at any time to vote for them.

  27. Senile Old Guy

    …but if we assume that McKim isn’t ignorant – for the sake of politeness – then we are left with the conclusion that he conciously and deliberately misled an audience of young people.

    But why should we assume this? I don’t get why this assumption is required “for the sake of politeness”. I would argue that the most reasonable assumption is that he doesn’t know that the 97% claim is BS.

    Someone argued that he should know…but I should eat less and exercise more, so…?

    Accusing someone of lying is always a dodgy game unless you can prove it. I am not saying he is not lying, after all he is a politician…

  28. Rabz

    I would argue that the most reasonable assumption is that he doesn’t know that the 97% claim is BS.

    And I would argue that the claim above is BS.

    Repeat a lie often enough …

  29. .

    It is strategically stupid to use bad language because then you lose the moral high ground

    No, you don’t.

    This is why people who support civilisation whill always have a moral higher ground over the (especially deep) Greens:

    The Greens would like to see deep cuts to GDP, energy production, birth rates and severely curtail civil liberties.

    You can convince others they are evil.

    Sometimes, you have call degenerate misanthropes what they are.

    You are also severely misguided. The audience was full of 17 year olds. Alfred appealed to his audience by using base language. Young women these days are not as sensitive as their forebears. He was not making a tub thumping whistlestop at a CWA.

    BTW – I’ve never seen you post here – please tell us honestly who you vote for.

  30. Arnost

    I would argue that the most reasonable assumption is that he doesn’t know that the 97% claim is BS.

    And I would argue that the claim above is BS.

    Repeat a lie often enough …

    That is the crux of the issue. I McKim’s stupid and it takes 5 minutes on google to find any number of learned comments crapping all over the 97% meme. It’s just an example of “repeating the lie” to propagate the meme. And whilst Alfred has put himself in a bit of shit coz of the language… he’s on solid ground.

    The way to diffuse this is for a reporter to aks McKim why he was pushing the 97% of scientists “untruth” to kids? And a followup on why he (or his office) is trying to silence a school kid that pointed that out… Of course the chances of that happening are zip.

  31. Arnost

    I McKim’s stupid = I doubt McKim’s stupid

  32. Sinclair Davidson

    Alfred / Deadman – please check your email. A journo from the Mercury is trying to contact you.

  33. Hammer meet nail!

    aks McKim why he was pushing the 97% of scientists “untruth” to kids? And a followup on why he (or his office) is trying to silence a school kid that pointed that out

  34. Arnost

    A good time to re-link to the Legate / Briggs / Soon paper that Mater linked to earlier

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11191-013-9647-9#page-1

    🙂

  35. Eddystone

    Sinclair Davidson
    #1197351, posted on February 21, 2014 at 10:58 am
    Alfred / Deadman – please check your email. A journo from the Mercury is trying to contact you.

    Brilliant!

  36. Ellen of Tasmania

    The Virtual President on education in the U.S.

    “My fellow Americans: good afternoon. Today I would like to speak to you about fundamental reforms to our nation’s educational system, and how inexpensive, common-sense ideas can radically improve the quality of education from kindergarten through college. . . . ”

    (Video goes for 7 mins & 3 secs or you can read the transcript.)

  37. Brian of Moorabbin

    Arnost at 10.37am:

    The way to diffuse this is for a reporter to aks McKim why he was pushing the 97% of scientists “untruth” to kids? And a followup on why he (or his office) is trying to silence a school kid that pointed that out… Of course the chances of that happening are zip.

    Doomlord at 10.58am

    Alfred / Deadman – please check your email. A journo from the Mercury is trying to contact you.

    Ask and ye shall receive….

    (aka Watch as both McKim and the VP both fold faster than a Philipino maid in a laundry…)

  38. A Lurker

    Attention Cats, here is your chance to directly quiz the Greens guy.

  39. boy on a bike

    If you trawl through McClown’s facebook site, there is a link to a site that promotes the 97% claim. Sorry – can’t link to it at present.

  40. feelthebern

    If I was McKim, I would probably want this issue to go away.
    I predict a suspended sentence for Alfred.
    Lest the spot light be turned upon why precisely the fuck a school vp would contact a politician regarding a student.

    From my earlier post.

  41. Brian of Moorabbin

    Hey Sinc, I note on the ‘open blog’ with Mr McKim (on the Hobart Mercury website) the following statement:

    Reporter Linda Smith and photographer Nikki Davis-Jones spent the day following Mr McKim on the campaign trail – see our “Day in the Life” report in the Saturday Mercury.

    Same reporter who is looking to contact Alfred perchance?

  42. Caroline Ross

    I know you’ve all gotten onto deeper commentary re Alfred’s predicament but I wonder if this type of behaviour by adults ie bullying children/young people is now acceptable. I’m thinking of the Australian of the Year and 13 year old Julia who admitted that Goodes’ tactics made her feel ashamed and upset. I know the circumstances are different and Alfie got to well and truly have his say but it’s still despicable of any adult to attempt to intimidate, shame or potentially permanently scar a child or adolescent.

  43. Brian of Moorabbin

    LOL at what appears to be the first quiestion fired at Mr McKim (at least what it is showing here):

    Hi everyone, I’m here early and good to go. There’s a few questions in already so I’ll get cracking. Cheers, Nick

    Mr McKim, why do you insist on perpetuating the myth of “97% consensus’ on AGW when there are so many scientists who have posted articles debunking that claim?
    Slayer of Memes

  44. johanna

    While I agree with your sentiments, Caroline, if things go to plan the scarring will be in the other direction this time.

    With Alfred and Deadman huntin’ for bear, McKim and the thuggish VP had better watch out.

  45. Brian of Moorabbin

    LOL again at question 2:

    Dear Mr McKim, is it true you contacted Hobart College to complain about being heckled at the recnt YNoT forum in Hobart’s City Hall? And did you try to get the student involved expelled?
    Slayer of Memes

    HI again slayer, No and No

  46. Oh come on

    Alfred / Deadman – please check your email. A journo from the Mercury is trying to contact you.

    Excellent. This school needs to be held fully accountable for failing to provide the mandated number of hours tuition to Alfred.

  47. Gab

    Excellent. This school needs to be held fully accountable for failing to provide the mandated number of hours tuition to Alfred.

    Yeah, no, it’s the Mercury so it will end up being a beat up about climate “denialists”.

  48. Pickles

    Yeah, no, it’s the Mercury so it will end up being a beat up about climate “denialists”.

    Have faith gab.

  49. Token

    LOL again at question 2:

    How does that answers stack up against this statement by Alfred?

    wherein I learned that the school had had some contact with Nick McKim’s office—

    Somebody needs to confirm if “his office” tried to get Hobart College to act.

    If he says no that recording by Alfred could be explosive in proving the school or McKim is a liar & could threaten his career.

  50. feelthebern

    I’ve asked a question, asking for Mckim to release his phone records to prove he did not contact the school, but surprise surprise, the comment is in moderation….

  51. Brian of Moorabbin

    Token yeah I submitted a quesyion about that.

    Be interesting to see if it clears the moderation team that’s taking the questions….

  52. Brian of Moorabbin

    mr McKim’s answers are slowing down (He’s blaming typing speed)… Questions getting too hard for him? Or is he taking advice (legal or otherwise) before responding??

    Hmmmmm….

  53. Sinclair Davidson

    Same reporter who is looking to contact Alfred perchance?

    No. The young lady I spoke to was Michelle.

  54. Brian of Moorabbin

    Sinc, dankie.

    Perhaps Deadman and Alfred should seek to contact Linda Smith as well as Michelle.

  55. Brian of Moorabbin

    Some of Mr McKIm’s answers are coming faster than others. Interestingly the fast answers are coming to easy ‘Dorothy Dixer’-style questions, and the slower ones to the harder questions…..

    Advisors are working hard to vet the answers before he submits.

  56. Token

    If Deadman & Alfred do talk to the media, one hopes they are savvy enough to keep a complete recording of the whole conversation as the Stenographers should not be trusted to edit the program in a fair way.

    I think Bolta found that out once again and is alluding to this point.

  57. dismissive

    When you ask a politician (or lawyer or …) a question like ” did you do X?”. you should really ask “did you or someone in your office or someone in your party do X?”

    Or even use a phrase such as ” are you aware of anyone doing X on your behalf?”

  58. Brian of Moorabbin

    The moderators are definately not accepting questions about Alfred’s situation after that first one by ‘Slayer of Memes’.

    Someone having a whisper in their ear?

  59. feelthebern

    All my questions to him are in moderation.

  60. Brian of Moorabbin

    Mine too Feelthebern

  61. We’ve only recently returned (the buses to the college are few during the day) and I have no message so far from a journalist but I did receive a message from Sen. Milne:

    I’m so upset, this will just be a short message.
    This week an innocent young man was killed on Manus Island because he sought asylum in our country. Many more are injured, some seriously, in hospital.
    On Friday and Saturday across the nation Australians will rally to say – this is wrong, this is not in my name. Please join us.
    The tragedy of a refugee killed while in Australia’s care should mean the end for Labor and the Abbott government’s morally bankrupt and cruel offshore processing regime.
    Today Senator Sarah Hanson-Young and I called for a Royal Commission to shine a great big spotlight into the dark corners of exactly what happened on Manus Island, as well as the systemic abuse and failure in duty of care in these gulags.
    Regardless we already know that closing Australia’s offshore detention camps must happen immediately.
    These cruel policies don’t fit with most Australians’ hopes for a decent, humane and caring nation.

  62. feelthebern

    From a lot of my reading of this McKim chap, I get the feeling that he is an anti-Semite that hides behind the BDS policy as justification.
    A lot of greens do.

  63. calli

    All my questions to him are in moderation.

    Of course they are. I’m surprised the first one (Slayer of Memes) got through. Must have been the proverbial canary in the coal mine and alerted the mods to what was to come.

    They’re such a heroic lot, those Greens. Slag off whoever they want to the applause of their adoring disciples, but the moment they are challenged, they go to water.

    I suspect McKim got an avalanche of questions about the SOD (Alfred) incident, and it blindsided him. Hence the long delays in posting and answering questions. He would have been hanging out for any ‘friendly’ question to answer in a deluge of questions relating to his part in the suspension of a 17yo student. Not a good look, sweetcheeks.

  64. feelthebern

    Just wanted to say thank you for everything that you do. It must be such a hard job. So grateful you care enough to put yourself in the fire.

    Wow, McKim takes all the hard questions.

  65. candy

    Also offensive to women so you lose them too.
    Don’t let them take control of the narrative by your using intemperate and loutish speech.

    Denise, that’s what I think too.

    If someone called me the “c” word I would turn my back and not listen to another word, no matter how logical the argument.

  66. Brian of Moorabbin

    I just submitted a message to the mods asking why it is that long answers to easy questions are appearing faster than short answers to the hard questions, and how many advisors McKim has vetting his responses before they are published…

    .. surprise surprise it now appears I am banned from the Mercury’s website

  67. feelthebern

    What a soft cock.
    He needs to grow a pair & answer some real questions.

  68. A Lurker

    I had to laugh at this question:

    Wouldnt it be more cost effective to have a small committee managing Tasmania and abolishing all levels of government and councils… The population of Tas is half the size of Brisbane council residents!

    His answer was totally expected…

    “No Kate, I don’t reckon”

    The last thing the Greens would want to do is reduce the size of Government.

    p.s. It might be useful to follow up on the answer by McKim at Q.2 (and someone take a screenshot of that answer before it vanishes into the Forgettery) to find out exactly what the truth of the matter was.

  69. .

    Mc Kim wants 17 year olds to vote if he can bully dissenters, otherwise, creating a cult of personality around the Greens.

    He’s a worthless drain on public finances and belongs in history’s rogue gallery along with Robespierre and so on and so forth.

  70. Anyway, the meeting at Hobart College was not to discuss what Alfred might or might not have done—by no means, the principal (Tracy Siedler) said several times (quite rudely*) that she refused to debate the issue—; nay rather, the meeting was to receive this notice:

    Suspension of Student
    Hobart College is committed to providing a safe, non-threatening and supportive learning environment for all. Such an undertaking requires all staff and students to be focused on their work and studies and everyone being considerate of the needs of others. This undertaking is endorsed by students when they accept our code of conduct as part of their enrolment.
    I write to inform you that Alfred Sophocles has not fulfilled the above commitments despite our attempts to make him aware of his obligations. The reason for the suspension:
    • Unacceptable language (swearing, obscene, offensive etc).
    Consequently, this is notification that Alfred has been suspended from attending Hobart College for a period of 3 days from 21/2/2014 to 24/2/2014. During the term of the suspension Alfred is not permitted to participate in any College-sponsored activities or be on campus property without my permission.
    Prior to reinstatement, on 26/2/2014, we require that you accompany Alfred to Hobart College for a re-admission conference with me at 9:00am.

    The principal expects Alfred to spend these days of suspension “reflecting” on his bad attitude, and she made it quite clear that he’d better have a full explanation and apology prepared for Wednesday, detailing how he regrets his errors. The school has a policy of diversity and free expression, and he’d better agree with every word of that policy or else.
    Alfred’s mother was also present but, being a Green-supporter and Abbot-hater, and furious with Alfred for insulting a Green, she supported the principal entirely.

    * ironic, rather, since she was accusing Alfred of having been extremely rude.

    If any lawyer would like to help me draft writs against the school, and the minister, and the department of education, I’d welcome the assistance. I shall not lightly accept the school’s arbitrary, unjust, politically-motivated abuse of my son.

  71. Brian of Moorabbin

    p.s. It might be useful to follow up on the answer by McKim at Q.2 (and someone take a screenshot of that answer before it vanishes into the Forgettery) to find out exactly what the truth of the matter was.

    Already done (screenshotted and saved)

  72. DrBeauGan

    I think Alfred should have the vote. Mind you, it looks as though be doesn’t need it.

  73. .

    Give them hell Deadman.

    They are an institution which has overstepped their authority.

    Such an apology would be no apology at all, and a contrived statement to make the school and that underhanded Mc Kim look good.

    I would ask for an apology of the school.

    The Greens do not have a right to control education or free speech.

  74. Gab

    Suspension of Student
    Hobart College is committed to providing a safe, non-threatening and supportive learning environment for all. Such an undertaking requires all staff and students to be focused on their work and studies and everyone being considerate of the needs of others. This undertaking is endorsed by students when they accept our code of conduct as part of their enrolment.
    I write to inform you that Alfred Sophocles has not fulfilled the above commitments despite our attempts to make him aware of his obligations. The reason for the suspension:
    • Unacceptable language (swearing, obscene, offensive etc).

    That’s disgusting. It had nothing to do with the school!

    Pickles, Tiny – writs please.

  75. .

    If some idiot told me to reflect on my “bad attitude”, they’d be laughed out of town.

  76. Alfred has responded to Michelle Paine, writing that he’s happy to answer all her questions—by e-mail.

  77. Token

    Prior to reinstatement, on 26/2/2014, we require that you accompany Alfred to Hobart College for a re-admission conference with me at 9:00am.

    Wow, sounds to me like they are inviting Alfred to say he does not regret standing up to a man who lied about a critical statistic and has used it to justify raising the cost of critical services for the poor in Tasmania.

    If we were all lefties we’d be well drilled from years of experience to create a protest & boycott over this.

    You can bet there would also be a swag of lawyers willing to represente Alfred & Deadman pro-bono in the name of “principle”.

  78. I would ask for an apology of the school

    When the principal said that she thought a full apology was in order Alfred replied that he was prepared to accept an apology from Nick McKim and the school.
    His comment was not received well by the principal, the assistant principal and his mother.

    I told Tracy Travers of the education department’s Learning Services section that I do now insist on an apology from the school as well as from the principal or I should use every lawful means possible to expose their injustice.

  79. calli

    Hobart College is committed to providing a safe, non-threatening and supportive learning environment for all

    Then why did they isolate him? Was he a threat to other students?

    Bloody imbeciles.

    Been where you are now, Deadman (little daughter knocked over a bigger boy who was threatening her with scissors). She was expected to write a note of apology. I wrote a note advising the school that she was being removed and enrolled elsewhere.

    Found out a while ago that bigger boy is now a druggy drop-kick. Daughter currently over in China building her business, which has been remarkably successful.

    All will be well in the end. You have a son to be proud of.

  80. Ellen of Tasmania

    Have faith gab.

    For sure – but not in The Mercury.

  81. .

    This whole incident is a farce, and reminds me of Lt. Col. Frank Slade

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUE4v1rUpSM

    I hope it ends the career of the underhanded, bullying scumbag, Mc Kim.

  82. Infidel Tiger

    When the principal said that she thought a full apology was in order Alfred replied that he was prepared to accept an apology from Nick McKim and the school.

    Well played. The boy has stones.

  83. Brian of Moorabbin

    Deadman (or Alfred if you’re reading), make sure that you mention to Michelle that you have an audio recording of the entire meeting with the VP to prove the bullying you were subjected to.

    Also Deadman, I hope you recorded today’s meeting also?

  84. Brian of M., Alfred today put his iPod on the table and, accidentally, on “record”.

  85. rugbyskier

    When the principal said that she thought a full apology was in order Alfred replied that he was prepared to accept an apology from Nick McKim and the school.
    His comment was not received well by the principal, the assistant principal and his mother.

    Did the three of them have that ‘cat’s bum’ expression that lefty women get when they hear something they don’t like?

  86. A Lurker

    For sure – but not in The Mercury.

    Yes, I’d be extremely cautious too – go in with the assumption that they are all poisonous spiders prone to biting, especially given the fact that the open debate was so strictly moderated and that Brian who questioned the modding, was then banned.

    If Alfred has the gift of the gab (then perhaps sometime in the future, and when legal actions would not be compromised) he could put up a YouTube video offering his side of the story and outlining how he was treated.

  87. Brian of Moorabbin

    Deadman, in the words of Montgomery Burns…

    Excellent...”

  88. Mater

    Deadman,
    Whilst I am not the greatest fan of MacArthur, I do like his prayer for his son.

    Build me a son, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak, and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory.
    Build me a son whose wishbone will not be where his backbone should be; a son who will know Thee and that to know himself is the foundation stone of knowledge.
    Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and spur of difficulties and challenge. Here let him learn to stand up in the storm; here let him learn compassion for those who fail.
    Build me a son whose heart will be clean, whose goal will be high; a son who will master himself before he seeks to master other men; one who will learn to laugh, yet never forget how to weep; one who will reach into the future, yet never forget the past.
    And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor, so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously. Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of greatness, the open mind of true wisdom, the meekness of true strength.
    Then I, his father, will dare to whisper, “I have not lived in vain.”

  89. Token

    Brian of M., Alfred today put his iPod on the table and, accidentally, on “record”.

    It is wonderful to see all the lefty tricks being played out against the totalitarians. That boy has courage and is lucky to have a father like you to stand by him.

  90. rugbyskier

    You mean this look?

    That’s the one.

  91. JMH

    This looks like it’s developing into a big story which should shine “a great big spotlight” onto the Tasmanian education system and serious shortcomings therein. I’ll be very interested to learn whether Alfred and Michelle Paine actually communicate. If the Mercury is not prepared to (truthfully) run Alfred’s side of the story, it needs to be directed to another media outlet who will. This appalling bullying of a 17 year-old must be exposed.

    Best of luck Deadman and Alfred and don’t give in.

    Alfred, I think you are a remarkable and brave young man with a great future ahead of you. Stick to your guns.

  92. Rabz

    Dedders and Alfie, do not rest until justice (and vengeance) is yours!

    8)

  93. Brian of Moorabbin

    Btw Deadman, that photo of the letter you linked to (on your blog?)..

    While you changed the name to “Mr Informal Informal” the home address is still clearly legible…

    Just sayin’…

  94. Nanuestalker

    If any lawyer would like to help me draft writs against the school, and the minister, and the department of education, I’d welcome the assistance. I shall not lightly accept the school’s arbitrary, unjust, politically-motivated abuse of my son.

    You’ll be wasting your time looking for legal remedies. Trial by media is your best bet but I think I’d just move on given that Alfred’s legal guardians have opposing views on the matter.

  95. Brian of Moorabbin

    If the Mercury is not prepared to (truthfully) run Alfred’s side of the story, it needs to be directed to another media outlet who will. This appalling bullying of a 17 year-old must be exposed.

    Agreed.

    Someone like Paul Murray, who has a national show on Foxtel, perhaps? Or even Andrew Bolt, on Channel Ten?

  96. Arnost

    The goalpost have shifted… what’s new.

    The reason for the suspension:
    • Unacceptable language (swearing, obscene, offensive etc).

    It would be nice to know how many other students have been suspended for using unacceptable language? Be nice to see the breakup for those expelled for swearing in school (no warning); expelled after warning / repeated warning); and those expelled for swearing out of school… Just to see the precedents…

    LOL

    Maybe get this into the P&C newsletter – just so that the parents know that they need to advise their kids that singing along with Macklemore and Ryan Lewis in public (one of the biggest selling iTunes albums) will get them expelled…

    Thrift Shop was performed on Jimmy Fallon:

    I’m gunna pop some tags
    Only got $20 in my pocket
    I-i-im hunttin lookin for a come up
    This is fucking awesome

    Walk inta the club like what up I got a big cock
    Im so pumped I bought some shit from a thrift shop
    Ice and the fringe are so damn frosty
    The people like damn thats a cold ass honkey
    Rollin in hella deep headed to the mezanine
    Dressed in all pink cept’ my gator shoes those are green draped in a leopard mink girls standin next to me

  97. Empire Strikes Back

    Edufascists: “Lying is OK, but no profanity please children!”

    Hobart school suspends free speech.

    Free Alfred. He is innocent.

  98. Brian of M., my residential address is easily found elsewhere as well. I’m not worried.

  99. Brian of M., I didn’t change my name to Mr Informal Informal, my full name is Informal but the school’s computers won’t accept that I have no surname.

  100. Arnost

    Alfred, I think you are a remarkable and brave young man with a great future ahead of you.

    Yes – supported.

    Very much a pathfinder that will allow others to speak out without fear of the threat that faces you. Kudos.

  101. Fisky

    Personally, I think Alfred should have been rapped over the knuckles for foul language, BUT…the school are clearly Leftists and any and all agitation against Leftists is justified. Never allow them to have a normal, controversy-free day at the office! Remember the Alinsky rules –

    Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it

  102. Brian of Moorabbin

    Deadman, in that case I say Well played Mr Informal 🙂

  103. Token

    It would be nice to know how many other students have been suspended for using unacceptable language?

    Wow, is the school is going to follow this precedent and impose similar sanction on all students in plain clothes at events that are not on the school?

    If not, they have acted in a prejudicial fashion isolating an individual. Sounds like this is turning into a discrimination issue.

  104. Gab

    I thought the school had a few steps to go through before they went straight to suspension? Oh yeah but then the alleged incident involved a Greenslime politician not a Liberal politician.

    Hobart College suspends student for exercising right to free speech while not on campus nor repesenting the college nor in uniform: Hitler now adopted as patron of college.

  105. Mater

    Alfred’s mother was also present but, being a Green-supporter and Abbot-hater

    That must make it difficult, Deadman, I find the eccentricities of a conservative wife challenging enough! 😉

  106. Ellen of Tasmania

    Personally, I think Alfred should have been rapped over the knuckles for foul language, BUT…the school are clearly Leftists …

    Agree.

    Public schools are there to indoctrinate, not educate. Once you understand that, you know how to plan.

  107. CR

    Was this a school event? Were the kids taken by bus to this event?
    Were they just encouraged to go in their free time or was this during school time?
    Any excursion in school time should have a signed permission slip from the parents.
    This may have been explained previously and I have missed it.Thanks.

  108. johanna

    Deadman, the simplest thing is to appeal to the Ombudsman,which doesn’t require any legal expertise. It will take a while, but on the face of it they have breached both the Department’s discipline policy and their own. As the Department’s discipline policy states, suspensions can be appealed in that way. Check their website and perhaps have a chat to them to find out how best to proceed.

    Meanwhile, admit nothing and do not give an inch. Notifying the school that you intend to appeal should put the wind up them.

    Getting involved with the media is a dangerous game (they have zero ethics in these matters) and could make Alfred the target for unwelcome attention or worse, now and in the future. But that’s up to you.

    Good luck!

  109. LesterPK

    I find the eccentricities of a conservative wife challenging enough!

    FIFY

  110. Senile Old Guy

    Personally, I think Alfred should have been rapped over the knuckles for foul language, BUT…the school are clearly Leftists and any and all agitation against Leftists is justified.

    I’m with Fisky on this one. The response — 3 days suspension FFS — is way out of proportion to the (I will admit) trivial offence.

  111. rapped over the knuckles for foul language

    By whom? The school? I repeat, the school had no authority over him despite the principal’s assertions.
    Interestingly, she claimed that the signed permission slip to leave school to attend the forum was proof that Alfred was participating in a school function; then, when Alfred replied that he never had a permission slip, and just took the bus thither independently, she insisted that his enrolment form (which he never read but signed at his mother’s direction) constituted his acknowledgement to abide with any dictatorial suggestion she might make. Nonetheless, it was not a school function.

  112. Fisky

    Excellent. This school needs to be held fully accountable for failing to provide the mandated number of hours tuition to Alfred.

    The school needs to be Alinskied. Names and addresses ought to be supplied. Pictures must be published of the officials doing abnormal things that ordinary people would avoid. It should become impossible for the officials to have a normal day at the office, without having to crisis manage this issue in some form.

  113. Arnost

    If not, they have acted in a prejudicial fashion isolating an individual. Sounds like this is turning into a discrimination issue.

    Yes. That’s what it was from the beginning. Threat of isolation/shunning as punishment for politically incorrect thinking.

    Maybe go with the flow and do the appology thingy… But do the passive resistance thing [Do a Švejk 🙂 ]

    I am sorry Mr Mckim for questioning your statement that 97% of all scientists on this earth unequivocally believe that we will all die unless we immediately stop using evil coal fired electricity… blah blah

    And then publish it…

  114. Fisky

    By whom?

    No idea. But it is totally unnecessary to call people c*nts in public. I’d say that was a mistake. Accusing people of mass murder and genocide on the other hand is perfectly fine if they are Leftists.

  115. Fisky

    Maybe go with the flow and do the appology thingy

    Good idea. “Dear McKim. I am terribly sorry for using foul language in my intent to expose your support for Pol Pot and Hitler. What I really meant to say is not “you c*nt”, but, “you Pol-Pot loving murderer”. Sorry again. Alfie.”

  116. Senile Old Guy

    By whom? The school?

    The Deadman.

    Whether the school has the authority or not is now debatable, given this point: “his enrollment form (which he never read but signed at his mother’s direction)”.

  117. CatAttack

    As a debating point resorting to bad language doesn’t win you any cudos but having said that when have the Greens ever cared about bad behavior when it involves their own supporters. Witness CSG Fwit who caused a drop in share price, Bob Brown interjecting through US President Bush address to Parliament and idiots climbing up the Opera House causing damage. He can just say he is continuing a long held Greens tradition.

  118. pete m

    Deadman – I would look carefully at the Education Act applying to the college, and then the Judicial Review Act:

    here.

    As a matter of cost, i would go with johanna and the Ombudsman route.

    As a matter of pure principle, then consider Court action as per Judicial Review Act, but be aware, if you lose it could cost tens of thousands. Only pull that trigger if you have first sought full legal opinion or have a bank balance with 6 figures (excluding cents 😉

    good luck

  119. Arnost

    Getting involved with the media is a dangerous game (they have zero ethics in these matters) and could make Alfred the target for unwelcome attention or worse, now and in the future.

    Yes – there is that. They went after the 13 yo that gave our “Australian of the Year” princess some emotional flutters… Or at least didn’t give her any suport.

    But that is why Alfred is a remarkable and brave kid.

    But collectively we need to take a stand when shit like this happens. There are at least three reasons why this needs to be thrashed out:

    Yes I know that we are like mineded here mostly – but I’d bet that the school principal will be reading this. (Maybe that is why she reacted so…) But it’ll make her think next time. That is important. It is also important that other prinicipals read this.

    Personally – if my kid does something trivially stupid like this and gets on the wrong side of political correctness, at least I would have thought through the issues and seen what impacts / remedies work. I got into shit myself for being undiplomatic and simply speaking the truth as I saw it plenty times!

    And lastly, when this is all over – a blog post like this will form a sensational resource to Alfred later in life when the prospective employer says: “You were expelled… why?”

  120. Gab

    Dear Mr McKim

    I apologise for my intemperate ouburst but you must understand I get very angry when politicians lie.

    Regards

    Alfred the Great.

  121. MT Isa Miner

    By whom? The school? I repeat, the school had no authority over him despite the principal’s assertions.
    Interestingly, she claimed that the signed permission slip to leave school to attend the forum was proof that Alfred was participating in a school function; then, when Alfred replied that he never had a permission slip, and just took the bus thither independently, she insisted that his enrolment form (which he never read but signed at his mother’s direction) constituted his acknowledgement to abide with any dictatorial suggestion she might make. Nonetheless, it was not a school function.

    Ducking and weaving around the law. Don’t get tangled if you can help it and remember that the school fights in the heavyweight division for free, free time, free legals and free drones. Seems like Johanna has a way through and maybe if you can find a friendly media backer to use the greens tactics against them like Fisky says. But Alfred needs to be able to get on with his life not have to use it up tangling with the slime.

  122. Senile Old Guy

    By whom? The school?

    The Deadman.

    Um, you.

    I know you approve. I don’t. We disagree. Big deal.

    And he did sign the enrollment form.

    To be clear: The school’s reaction is way, way over the top and appears to be the response of petty tyrants who don’t like being stood up to. Perhaps it’s one day for every swear word.

  123. Senile Old Guy

    I got into shit myself for being undiplomatic and simply speaking the truth as I saw it plenty times!

    And I.

    Nor do I want to come across as some dainty soul who can’t tolerate cursing. I’ve lost my temper in meeting and, while I avoid the c* word, the others get a fair work out. It’s time and place.

  124. Ellen of Tasmania

    The school’s reaction is way, way over the top and appears to be the response of petty tyrants who don’t like being stood up to.

    It’s a catchy little disease, isn’t it?

    “This terrible story from Germany was broken by The Daily Mail last August. Here is the update as of last month. The Wunderlich family have had their children removed from them, not because they wanted to homeschool them (homeschooling is illegal in Germany) but because they wanted to leave the country to exercise their freedom to homeschool elsewhere.”

    (From IPA’s ‘What did I miss?’)

    And then there was that story in Sweden of the boy who was taken from his parents after they had already boarded a plane to leave the country. Tyrants indeed.

  125. Mr Logic

    I have raised this with the school, and asked why they are presupposing CAGW. The school denies it is, but does not represent any contrary claims – and I had to introduce Ian Plimer’s book “How to get expelled from school” as a resource to them.

    I had a good chuckle at this. I hope the writer was introduced to some resources too:

    http://www.climatechange.gov.au/accurate-answers-professor-ian-plimer

    I can understand the frustration though; when you have no evidence to the contrary and simply want to ignore facts then accusations of lies and insults are all you really have left. Conservative parenting at its best lol.

  126. mizaris

    When I was 14 I took on a teacher at a Catholic School over remarks which she made about abortion and euthanasia. It scared the living shit out of me and I had butterflies in my stomach for the full 24 hours between the time of the remarks and my challenge. But it was worth it. She stormed out of the classroom when several other girls backed me – quietly at first, then louder. It was the scariest thing I have ever done (except when my kids made me jump from a perfectly good aeroplane to “celebrate” my 50th). I still remember the feeling and I congratulate young Alfred on his courage. I hope the greenie cnuts tie themselves into little knots of fury over this. They are guilty of using a position of power to intimidate and bully someone who they should be caring for and encouraging.

  127. Ellen of Tasmania

    Gabs has got it. You can apologise for the language and rudeness while still hammering home the point about the 97% nonsense. The young man who’s sorry for being rude, but really lost his temper over such misleading rubbish, should garner more sympathy with the general public.

    Honestly, I don’t want our politicians to feel so heckled or abused that they don’t come out to public forums. Showing respect for opponents is a good thing. I value a civil society. We need those public forums (recorded) more than ever now we have such a compliant media.

  128. Splatacrobat #1197274, posted on February 21, 2014 at 8:22 am

    My wife worked for a Government department and they tried to railroad her with disciplinary action. She refused to attend any meeting until she had the agenda of the meeting, charges in writing, and accuser’s statements. In the end they had to give up because they had nothing.

    Very nice indeed

  129. Baldrick

    Gab
    #1197598, posted on February 21, 2014 at 2:45 pm
    Dear Mr McKim

    I apologise for my intemperate ouburst but you must understand I get very angry when politicians lie.

    I’m with EoT … nice one Gab.

  130. Oh come on

    the school are clearly Leftists and any and all agitation against Leftists is justified. Never allow them to have a normal, controversy-free day at the office! Remember the Alinsky rules –

    Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it

    Right, the issue’s been taken way beyond the realms of the initial rather trivial rush of blood to the head that’s characteristic of youth. The leftists have made a defensive strike. Our reaction should reflect the gravity of this action – and a school denying a child a full education because of political affiliation is very grave indeed.

  131. Ripper

    Just had a look at at Mr Mchim’s blog. Got to say it was a fizzer, and Young Alfred was right as he sidestepped the 97% part of the question, which indicates that He does indeed “fucking knows it”.

  132. Gab

    Correction:

    Dear Mr McKim

    I apologise for my intemperate ouburst but you must understand I get very angry when politicians lie.

    And here’s why he lied:

    {essay on the fatuousness and fallaciousness of the 97% claim}

    Kind regards

    Alfred the Great II

  133. johanna

    P.S. Deadman, if you want a hand with drafting a complaint to the Ombudsman, I am happy to help, including looking over a draft or anything else. I have quite a bit of practice at public sector drafting, including Cabinet Submissions.

    I’m sure there are others here with expertise of various kinds who would also be glad to assist.

  134. Arnost

    I don’t want our politicians to feel so heckled or abused that they don’t come out to public forums

    Right to a point. But to give politicians this sort of respect means that they have to be worthy of it. And knowingly lying to kids to push – what is and will be in history shown to be – an intentionally disestablishmentarianist meme is no way to get this respect.

  135. Arnost

    Very good Gab – but don’t forget the “peer reviewed” bit!

    {[here is the]… peer reviewed … essay on the fatuousness and fallaciousness of the 97% claim}

    Those are words possesed of strong magic juju to the lefties…

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11191-013-9647-9

  136. Mater

    It isn’t just the children. I remember my very first lecture in an MBA course when the ‘Ethics’ Lecture asked “who in the room believes voting should be non-compulsory?” When myself and several others raised our hands, we were immediately told we could leave the lecture immediately.
    Not being a shrinking violet, a robust discussion ensued about the merits of either side of this argument. In the end, and knowing a little something about the subjectivity of moral/ethical decisions, I asked who was right and who was wrong.
    The reply:
    “Me…because I’m the lecturer!”
    The institution received no more fees from me.

  137. Gab

    Those are words possesed of strong magic juju to the lefties

    LOL.

    And so true.

  138. Ellen of Tasmania

    And knowingly lying to kids to push..

    I do agree, Arnost. As I said earlier, without condoning Alfred’s language, Mr. McKim has behaved far more grievously.

    I’ve written him a nice little letter (being in his electorate and all) asking if he would quit using the 97% nonsense if it could be pointed out to him that the thing has been shown to be wrong. Also if he agreed that science was not a matter of consensus anyway, and what could happen to the climate for him to question the validity of the climate models. I’ve even thanked him in advance for answering me. How could he possibly refuse?

  139. .

    Mater
    #1197656, posted on February 21, 2014 at 3:48 pm
    It isn’t just the children. I remember my very first lecture in an MBA course when the ‘Ethics’ Lecture asked “who in the room believes voting should be non-compulsory?” When myself and several others raised our hands, we were immediately told we could leave the lecture immediately.

    I would have told the c*nt to get fucked.

  140. Beertruk

    Splatacrobat #1197274, posted on February 21, 2014 at 8:22 am

    My wife worked for a Government department and they tried to railroad her with disciplinary action. She refused to attend any meeting until she had the agenda of the meeting, charges in writing, and accuser’s statements. In the end they had to give up because they had nothing.

    Very nice indeed

    Jeeze…a brilliant idea. Wish I had thought of doing this last year when I was still working for the Fat Controller and my Retard Supervisor. I kept on getting ambushed when I came back off leave and RDO’s.

  141. johanna

    Oh, and Deadman, start putting together a detailed chronology – names, dates, places, events – while it is still fresh in your mind.

    And make copies of all documents and stash them somewhere safe.

    Sod’s Law – if you have copies, chances are the originals will not come to grief. 🙂

  142. nic

    Hobart College is committed to providing a safe, non-threatening and supportive learning environment for all. Such an undertaking requires all staff and students to be focused on their work and studies and everyone being considerate of the needs of others. This undertaking is endorsed by students when they accept our code of conduct as part of their enrolment.
    I write to inform you that Alfred Sophocles has not fulfilled the above commitments despite our attempts to make him aware of his obligations. The reason for the suspension:

    Deadman,
    which of the above commitments did Alfred break?
    what efforts did the school take to make him aware of his obligations and when?
    with reference to Tas Education Department guidelines, at what point was a public event that wasn’t an identifiable school activity, a ‘learning environment’?

  143. Pickles

    Dedders/Alfred. Don’t know “Michelle from the Merc” But the thread had been followed before the McKim live blog, so job’s right. Sort of. I think. Interviews by email are wise.

  144. Fisky

    Right, the issue’s been taken way beyond the realms of the initial rather trivial rush of blood to the head that’s characteristic of youth. The leftists have made a defensive strike. Our reaction should reflect the gravity of this action – and a school denying a child a full education because of political affiliation is very grave indeed.

    Or as Alinsky said –

    • The real action is in the enemy’s reaction.
    • The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major
    strength.

  145. Fisky

    I’m with Fisky on this one. The response — 3 days suspension FFS — is way out of proportion to the (I will admit) trivial offence.

    3-day suspension??? That is absolutely ridiculous. I got less than that for fighting when I was at school. Time to go nuclear.

  146. Fisky

    @jc6543 Extreme Leftist Hobart College Principal Tracy Siedler suspends student for 3 days for opposing Green lies http://impactofcc.blogspot.com.au/p/suspended-for.html

    Pass it on!

  147. Mater

    I would have told the c*nt to get fucked.

    Dot,
    I did say ‘robust discussion’. While it was probably a little more ‘crafted’ than young Alfred’s response, I think he got the message.
    The interesting thing for me was how easily cowed the other students were, despite being experienced managers. Such is the power of the perceived authority figure.
    Mind you, it could also have been the fear of failing, given the fees were around $2200 per unit.

  148. Fisky

    Here is @TracySiedler on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/TracySiedler/following

    Note that she follows Julia Gillard and Bob Brown. Clear evidence of Far Left political tendencies.

  149. DrBeauGan

    The school would be well within its remit to insist on their students observing civil language on school grounds and in school uniform outside. It’s like Lizzie’s swear jar, children need to know the customs of their tribe. But claims that violating those customs is immoral are confusing the customs of the tribe with laws of nature, a sure mark of provincialism and a limited education. The whole point of these rules is that they mark the tribe. Solid middle class middle aged ladies like Candy and Sinc can then easily be identified. We know their values. This has its uses but to believe the middle aged middle classes hold the high moral ground per se is ludicrous. I was raised in the middle classes and can pass as a gentleman in a bad light but I never bother.
    In Alfred’s case, the school is arguably ultra vires but I agree with Gab. The best course is to humbly apologize for calling McKim a lying c*nt and say that the phrase ‘dissembling weasel’ is what he should have said. This will read much better on television and the newspapers.

  150. Empire Strikes Back

    lying c*nt and say that the phrase ‘dissembling weasel’ is what he should have said. This will read much better on television and the newspapers.

    Good approach. It’s the “I might have called him a cnut, but at least I didn’t call him an effing cnut” defence.

  151. Deadman and Alfred, please indulge me a military perspective

    Termination Criteria
    1. Effective planning cannot occur without a clear understanding of the endstate and the conditions that must exist to end military operations.

    Examples of Termination Criteria – Note the description of condition, not action:
    1. Country X’s borders are secure.
    2. Country Y no longer poses an offensive threat to the countries of the region.
    3. Country X’s national security force is sufficient to repress internal rebellion.

    Please take some time to determine your termination criteria. It will allow you to assess rapidly the relatives merits of competing courses of action i.e. does that this action contribute to my termination criteria? If not, then you may discard that course of action with confidence and continue the battle.

  152. nic, as far as Alfred and I could tell, his obligations are to divine the will of his benevolent principal and then to comply with her wise commands at any time wherein she decides he might conceivably be considered at school; he was given no opportunity to express his awareness or otherwise of his obligations; the principal considers that he agreed to follow all of her rules, thoughts and orders of the day from the moment that he, a minor, signed his enrolment form, without having read it, at the order of his mother.
    He was questioning this afternoon whether he might not stay mute for the rest of the year, during school hours and in any place wherein he might conceivably be adjudged to be at school, lest he offend someone. See, the term of his offence was “Unacceptable language (swearing, obscene, offensive etc)” That “etc” is very worrying, because et cetera is Latin for “and all the rest”, so not only are swearing, obscene language and offensive language grounds for suspension but so are infinite other unacceptable forms of language. He can’t risk impiety, which is unacceptable to religious folk; he can’t risk jokes, which are unacceptable to Shi’ite Imams; he can’t risk suggesting that AGW is a pseudo-scientific hoax or that known liars are deliberately deceiving the electorate about climatic doom; and he surely can’t risk expressing an opinion lest it be one somehow offensive to the principal or one of the four assistant principals or someone else in authority.

  153. Fisky

    Just to recap – the Hobart College Principal who suspended Alfred is a Twitter follower of Bob Brown and Julia Gillard.

    https://twitter.com/TracySiedler/following

    @TracySiedler – why do you follow extreme Left-winger @BobBrownFndn on Twitter?

  154. Fisky

    Deadman – are you aware that Hobart College Principal Tracy Siedler is a Twitter follower of Bob Brown?

    https://twitter.com/TracySiedler/following

  155. The Hobart Harridans are here

    harridan ?har?d(?)n
    noun
    plural noun: harridans
    1. a strict, bossy, or belligerent old woman

    Accurate enough for me

  156. Mater

    Grigory,
    Hans would be proud of such clear direction.
    He would, of course, follow up by staring down said foe!

  157. jumpnmcar

    Was he in a school uniform ?

  158. calli

    The head tiltiness gives Tracy away, Grigory.

  159. nic

    Thanks Deadman. I do think they can be challenged based on what was written.

  160. For those who believe that Alfred ought to be punished further for his naughtiness, he’s emailed me (because he’s at his mother’s until Wednesday) that she’s banned his using his xBox until he’s permitted to return to school and, “told that [he] should put [him]self in McKim’s place.”

  161. Thanks, Grigory.
    Alfred did have a delighted chuckle when he saw this morning’s cartoon.

  162. jumpnmcar, Hobart College has no official uniform (except for the one with a dunce’s cap and a big D-for-denier which Alfred will be forced to wear soon). The public colleges in Tasmania teach* grades 11 and 12 only.

    By the way, if anyone want to create his own “Downfall” parody, I recommend that the depressed dictator’s last words be something like, “No fucking wonder Tasmania has fifty fucking percent literacy among teenagers.

    * tee hee

  163. old bloke

    Deadman,

    I’m puzzled, didn’t Alfred say that the VP suspended him, not for his robust language, but for calling McKim a liar?

    Also, didn’t Alfred’s suspension commence on Thursday?

    Why therefore has the Principal decided that Alfred’s suspension begins today, and results from robust language (note – different date, different charge)?

    It appears that they don’t know what they are doing. I would recommend taking it up with the Ombudsman first, and stick with Alfred’s request for a public apology by both the VP and the Principal. These facists need to be taught that child abuse in any form is wrong, wrong, wrong.

  164. Mater #1197753, posted on February 21, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    Grigory,
    Hans would be proud of such clear direction.
    He would, of course, follow up by staring down said foe!

    That’s exactly how Hans would have followed up – and frightening it would have been!

  165. old bloke, Alfred did indeed believe that accusing McKim of lying was what disconcerted the ass. principal; the principal, however, was very upset by the actual words, and insisted today that she would instantly sack any employee whom she heard using those same words.

  166. calli

    she would instantly sack any employee whom she heard using those same words

    Now that is curious. In what context I wonder, and after how many warnings?

    She sounds like she has a touch of the Julia’s hyperbowl malaise.

  167. jumpnmcar

    “Please stop lying; the 97% statistic if f*cking bullshit, and you f*cking know it, you c*nt.”

    Nup, sorry.
    His response was Birdian and having read Alfreds blog, beneath his ability.He let emotion trump his argument.
    If I had his ear I would recommend an apology to the audience and to work on communication skills over the next 3 days.
    Perhaps get off the net and sow a few seeds.

  168. Deadman#1197761, posted on February 21, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    Thanks, Grigory.
    Alfred did have a delighted chuckle when he saw this morning’s cartoon.

    Truly my pleasure Deadman.

  169. DrBeauGan

    Deadman, Alfred, a suggested template for terminating matters to your satisfaction:
    Ms Seidel, Senator McKim,
    I have been required, on pain of suspension, to apologise in writing for the use of intemperate language during the public meeting at which the senator falsely claimed that 97% of climate scientists subscribe to the AGW hypothesis.
    I unreservedly withdraw the term ‘lying c*nt’ and all other expletives which were used in anger provoked by what may, indeed not be a lie, but a misrepresentation founded on ignorance. I feel, on reflection, that my language does no credit to either my vocabulary or my father’s wise guidance. The term ‘dissembling weasel’ does, I think, a far better job of expressing my contempt for the dishonesty of the senator’s misrepresentation of the facts.
    Yours etc.

    Send a few copies to newspapers and others.

  170. Fisky

    Is Hobart College Principal Tracy Siedler a Greens Party member? She does follow Bob Brown on Twitter. And it would explain why the College were so tight with McKim’s office.

  171. DrBeauGan

    Fight on your ground not the enemy’s.

  172. Gab

    His response was Birdian

    Almost.
    Had he added: and where’s your fucking evidence, you miserable c#nt?, then it would be truly Birdian.

  173. calli

    Jump, think back to when you were young. If you saw some jumped up, sawn-off politician spruiking lies to your friends and peers, wouldn’t you pop your head up above the parapet?

    The words were intemperate, but they’re the sort of thing that I hear every day, day in, day out. I don’t like the words and rarely swear personally, but tough.

    What were once the agitators have now become the ‘Establishment’ and have suddenly become sensitive to dissent, expressed strongly. I still remember the days when these self-same characters called V vets ‘baby killers’ and the like.

  174. Calli #1197504, posted on February 21, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Been where you are now, Deadman (little daughter knocked over a bigger boy who was threatening her with scissors). She was expected to write a note of apology. I wrote a note advising the school that she was being removed and enrolled elsewhere.

    Found out a while ago that bigger boy is now a druggy drop-kick. Daughter currently over in China building her business, which has been remarkably successful.

    Love your work, Calli!

  175. DrBeauGan

    You are right Calli. Fact is, the expletives are all they’ve got and gives them standing only among the Candies. Ergo, withdraw the expletives and the charge of lying and they have nothing. Replace it with a justified charge of misrepresenting the facts and Alfred is home and dry.

  176. Oh come on

    Nup, sorry.
    His response was Birdian and having read Alfreds blog, beneath his ability.He let emotion trump his argument.
    If I had his ear I would recommend an apology to the audience and to work on communication skills over the next 3 days.
    Perhaps get off the net and sow a few seeds.

    Then again, why let this opportunity go to waste?

  177. nic

    “told that [he] should put [him]self in McKim’s place.”

    She told Alfred he should put his head up his arse?

  178. cohenite

    Dr Beauman’s template is correct; the form of the boy’s argument is providing the hook for the school’s outrage; apologise for that and emphasise the substance again more robustly without the expletitive.

    Bait and switch; with the faux outrage justification removed the issue then becomes one of the boy’s rights being infringed. There is no justification for that.

  179. Oh come on

    It’s quite clear to me that some or all of the school administrators had a rush of blood to the head (not unlike that which prompted Alfred’s outburst) when they initially suspended him. Now they don’t want to back down and have closed ranks.

    You’d be crazy not to push back, really. No reasonable person would expect a student to be accountable to their school’s code of discipline when they are not at school and cannot be said to be representing the school in any capacity.

  180. Denise

    .
    #1197329, posted on February 21, 2014 at 10:15 am

    It is strategically stupid to use bad language because then you lose the moral high ground

    No, you don’t.

    This is why people who support civilisation whill always have a moral higher ground over the (especially deep) Greens:

    People who support civilization need to demonstrate that in their speech and character ie they need to be civilized. You can’t just operate on the subjective assumption that everyone’s going to realize that you’re a really moral person on the inside no matter what comes out of your mouth.

    The Greens would like to see deep cuts to GDP, energy production, birth rates and severely curtail civil liberties.

    You can convince others they are evil.

    I hate the Greens with a passion, they want to return us all – themselves excepted – to a lifestyle found nowadays only in places like Calcutta. You will not convince people that you are noble when using their way of speech ie resorting to abuse. Poor arguments are defeated by good arguments. Otherwise why not get Billy Connolly instead of Tim Wilson as Freedom Commissioner – though I think the title is ludicrous.

    Sometimes, you have call degenerate misanthropes what they are.

    If only the lad had called them degenerate misanthropes; he would have had my total support for standing against these tinpot dictators. Which is what they are. There are many 17 year olds who can debate without resorting to crude one-liners. None of us is enhanced by using each others’ body parts as insults. It’s a poor reflection on his parents that he thought it ok to speak like that at any time.

    You are also severely misguided. The audience was full of 17 year olds. Alfred appealed to his audience by using base language. Young women these days are not as sensitive as their forebears. He was not making a tub thumping whistlestop at a CWA.

    So you think uncouth speech something that just has to be tolerated by us old CWA slags, do you? You don’t know much if you think women who work at the CWA are sensitive, they’ve seen it all. And they’re probably not terribly impressed by what passes for communication nowadays. Not only boorish but unintelligent.

    BTW – I’ve never seen you post here – please tell us honestly who you vote for.

    I do post here occasionally. I will honestly swear that I voted for the Liberals but am extremely unhappy with the appointments of Combet and Natasha Scott-Despoja or whatever her name is. Also with George Brandis backtracking, and with, it seems, the general reluctance of the government to really grasp the nettle of Labor. I want to see Gillard in jail, preferably taken there in chains, along with all her cronies. And all the money they stole returned to us taxpayers. And the same for the union parasites. Very unhappy with Malcolm Turnbull, written to him several times, get the same stock answer.

    I am pleased with Scott Morrison, he seems to be handling this portfolio with conviction and intestinal fortitude. Deadman’s son could do worse than see him being interviewed by Barrie Cassidy last Sunday as an example on how to deal with one’s enemies; he totally demolished Cassidy without a single eff or c word and without even a drop of sweat.

    However, if the government of the day keeps being double minded and grovelling to the left I shall vote for the LDP next time.

  181. jumpnmcar

    calli

    Jump, think back to when you were young. If you saw some jumped up, sawn-off politician spruiking lies to your friends and peers, wouldn’t you pop your head up above the parapet?

    No, I was too busy trying to sow.

    The words were intemperate, but they’re the sort of thing that I hear every day, day in, day out.

    Never within earshot of Mum or girls. But I’m a sexist like that, as Ive mentioned previously.

    What were once the agitators have now become the ‘Establishment’ and have suddenly become sensitive to dissent, expressed strongly. I still remember the days when these self-same characters called V vets ‘baby killers’ and the like.

    And shouting out the c word fixes what?
    Alfred said what he said and I agree, but, he’s a minor and with all the protections given to him so are the restraints imposed.
    His parents are responsible for him and as they can’t agree on the colour of an orange I feel pity for the boy.
    Next year he can say as he wishes, till then ……..
    ( and yes I was outspoke as a youth but my targets and venues differed immensely )

  182. Potemkin’s Village

    Hobart College: Your children’s principal’s principles… here

    Warning: Graphic Image

  183. Tel

    jumpnmcar, Hobart College has no official uniform (except for the one with a dunce’s cap and a big D-for-denier which Alfred will be forced to wear soon). The public colleges in Tasmania teach* grades 11 and 12 only.

    It does set a rather unfortunate precedent for teachers to control student’s lives outside school. The school is of course entitled to say their piece, and so is Alfred. Although it’s generally frowned upon to swear at a public meeting, I don’t believe there’s any law against it, and school policy most certainly does NOT apply under the circumstance. I would say that perhaps swearing a lot might distract from the content of the message, that’s entirely a matter for the listener to decide, not the school. Some things need to be said, and Alfred said it.

    In terms of what’s best for Alfred, I leave that for him to decide, but in terms of what’s the morally correct thing to do under the circumstances, he should (politely) point out that the school has over extended it’s authority and he will not be bullied into any sort of apology when any other free citizen under the same situation would not.

  184. Tel

    It is strategically stupid to use bad language because then you lose the moral high ground

    But you also attract more attention… which is that has happened. Advantages and disadvantages of strategy are arguable, but the great advantage to Libertarians is that all strategies are open simultaneously.

  185. calli

    So you think uncouth speech something that just has to be tolerated by us old CWA slags, do you? You don’t know much if you think women who work at the CWA are sensitive, they’ve seen it all. And they’re probably not terribly impressed by what passes for communication nowadays. Not only boorish but unintelligent.

    You’ve expressed it much better than me, Denise. I think that Dot meant SOG regarding the voting, but I could be wrong (I usually am).

    Alfred, like many people who use expletives, is not unintelligent but…passionate (excuse the Greenism). And I attribute that to his youth, and to modern usage which has, regretfully, dulled our ears.

    As for the CWA…I have a better recipe for scones and I’m prepared to use it! 🙂

  186. Tel

    I’m puzzled, didn’t Alfred say that the VP suspended him, not for his robust language, but for calling McKim a liar?

    Also, didn’t Alfred’s suspension commence on Thursday?

    Why therefore has the Principal decided that Alfred’s suspension begins today, and results from robust language (note – different date, different charge)?

    Most certainly ignore any suspension issued verbally. Only a written letter with specific details is real. Verbal stuff will just change or vanish or what have you.

  187. .

    Otherwise why not get Billy Connolly instead of Tim Wilson as Freedom Commissioner – though I think the title is ludicrous.

    Why not indeed!?

    Deadman’s son could do worse than see him being interviewed by Barrie Cassidy last Sunday as an example on how to deal with one’s enemies; he totally demolished Cassidy without a single eff or c word and without even a drop of sweat.

    It’s a different thing Denise. Mc Kim and his entourage didn’t want dissent and they were going to fob off debate. Intemperance and base language appealed to the audience. Debate wasn’t going to happen.

    Alfred embarrassed McKim. This is why the Greens following AP has the shits.

    Good work on wanting to vote LDP next time. You are the only person so far who hasn’t come unstuck when I’ve challenged them as to their allegiance, surely you can see why it is done.

  188. Mike of Marion

    Denise,

    Very well put.

    Mike

  189. calli

    You are the only person so far who hasn’t come unstuck when I’ve challenged them as to their allegiance, surely you can see why it is done

    See, I was 100% right when I said I would be wrong! (Women’s logic for those who are interested in such things).

  190. Gab

    Billy Connolly … as Freedom Commissioner

    What a top idea.

  191. Oh come on

    Grigory, how did you determine that the principal of Hobart College was (is) a supporter of late term abortions?

  192. .

    So you think uncouth speech something that just has to be tolerated by us old CWA slags, do you? You don’t know much if you think women who work at the CWA are sensitive, they’ve seen it all. And they’re probably not terribly impressed by what passes for communication nowadays. Not only boorish but unintelligent.

    Exactly. You’d turn your nose up at such intemperance and write it off as the rantings of a crank, however, a bunch of 17 year olds probably don’t know what “inappropriate, uncorrected for unit root structure and lacking in time series techniques” means regarding AGW modelling, and unlike you, they probably wouldn’t care. You may not know either, but if you didn’t, you’d want to find out and wouldn’t let some clever dick MP fob the questioner off with some slick PR moves.

    The young audience do know what calling someone a lying c*nt means, and given their incivility, react to it.

    The tailor need not be eloquent. He merely needs to make the Emperor go naked.

    Alfred not only embarrassed McKim but he questioned his credibility in front of a cohort of young citizens whose the votes thereof the Greens see as their “birthright”. (Which is a wholly offensive, repugnant, odious and insidious concept in itself).

    I have said this before. The school encouraged political participation, as did McKim, who was trying to capture another cohort of young citizens as extremely loyal voters for the next 20 or so years and they both got and deserved what they asked for.

    The Greens do NOT have a right to unquestionably inculcate the next generation of voters.

  193. .

    Brilliant stuff Gab. Perhaps Billy Connolly can replace the prissy, useless, pretentious politically correct wastes of space on the HRC – other than our brilliant friend, Tim Wilson.

  194. jumpnmcar

    Would Tim Wilson ever, on Q and A for example, say;

    “Please stop lying; the 97% statistic if f*cking bullshit, and you f*cking know it, you c*nt.”

    Correct but juvenile.

  195. blogstrop

    Haha! Twitter following has taken over from in vino veritas.

  196. Oh come on

    The guy’s 17, ffs. Dot has a point (although I doubt Alfred weighed his words carefully before speaking).

    Dot has a point. Ha ha ha.

  197. Correct but juvenile.

    Oh, by my halidom—or fututionis gratia—, Alfred is a juvenile.

  198. Baldrick

    ABC 7.30 Report Tasmania (21/02/13):
    Nick McKim: “I’ve always been relaxed about people expressing their views.”

  199. jumpnmcar

    Alfred is a juvenile.

    And lacking the argumentative skills of his Pop I see.
    With some stable guidance he just may achieve it.
    I do have hope for the lad.

  200. Gab

    A 17yo boy who is passionate about the truth swears at a lying politician. Oh the humanity.

    Put him in leg-irons and haul him off to the Green Gulags!!11!!

  201. .

    I put it to you an argument in such a forum was doomed to fail.

    McKim can never reverse the now inevitable questioning of his and the Australian Green’s credibility.

  202. Baldrick

    Oops … that should have been 21/02/14

  203. ev425128

    “Please stop lying; the 97% statistic if f*cking bullshit, and you f*cking know it, you c*nt.”

    Correct but juvenile.

    Jump, the audience was juvenile, as was (legally) the speaker. The profanity had the effects of a) shocking the “adults” at the function, and b) amplifying the message to the intended recipients.

    And now we have the fall-out.

  204. Fisky

    Warning: Graphic Image

    Oh gee I wonder what that might be.

  205. I am surprised young Alfred stopped there with his interjection…

  206. Armadillo

    The boy needs a twitter account. When’s his birthday?

  207. Fisky

    Grigory, how did you determine that the principal of Hobart College was (is) a supporter of late term abortions?

    The worst cartoonist in the English-speaking world has struck again. FFS, what a shocker.

  208. Oh come on #1197834, posted on February 21, 2014 at 7:30 pm

    Grigory, how did you determine that the principal of Hobart College was (is) a supporter of late term abortions?

    Not for discussion in this forum in case they are following us

  209. .

    What would Uncle JC say?

    Escalate, always escalate.

    Demand the AP be fired and struck off the register as an accredited teacher for her utterly partisan maladministration of natural justice.

  210. Fisky

    Not for discussion in this forum in case they are following us

    You’ve actually got no evidence at all, do you?

  211. calli

    I’m still wondering how the Principal of the college thinks she can summarily fire an employee for swearing.

  212. Oh come on

    Potemkin’s Village

    Hobart College: Your children’s principal’s principles… here

    Warning: Graphic Image

    (link omitted deliberately)

    Grigory, how on earth do you think this helps Alfred’s cause? In fact, it’s a big club that could easily be taken up by the people who would surely come out against Alfred should news of his predicament gain prominence.

    Bloody hell. Friends like these…

  213. jumpnmcar

    ev

    The profanity had the effects of a) shocking the “adults” at the function, and b) amplifying the message to the intended recipients.

    With respect no, the profanity relegated his argument to the rubbish bin.
    It may have improved his chance with a female rebel conservative chick ( <o.oooo2 %/ population)
    Were you there to observe the response ?

  214. .

    calli
    #1197905, posted on February 21, 2014 at 8:09 pm
    I’m still wondering how the Principal of the college thinks she can summarily fire an employee for swearing.

    Han Solo said it best: Delusions of grandeur.

  215. calli, she explained that it’s because she’d feel offended, just as Alfred’s main offence was to upset her.

  216. .

    Were you there to observe the response ?

    Were you?

  217. .

    Deadman
    #1197910, posted on February 21, 2014 at 8:11 pm
    calli, she explained that it’s because she’d feel offended, just as Alfred’s main offence was to upset her.

    Does this woman hail from an all powerful, autocratic royal family in some small European enclave we’ve never heard of?

  218. Oh come on

    Dot’s right. I suspect a lot more of those kids followed up on whether that stat’s true or not due to the tone of the outburst.

  219. nilk, Iron Bogan

    Well, having read the whole thread, and pondered the arguments regarding Alfred’s use of intemperate language (otherwise known as profanity), I’m honestly not bothered by it.

    It is how the youth of today speak. The f-bomb is another form of verbal punctuation for a rather large number of them today, and as someone who works in a blue-collar workplace, I don’t even notice it a lot of the time.

    I try not to use it at home, and I don’t use it on social media unless I’m trying to make an extreme point.

    With that said, my message to Alfred is, Go! You good thing! Keep speaking truth to power!

    (Or should that be troof to powah?)

    Ultimately there are a lot of considered views here. This is the Cat, so that is to be expected, but the only ones who will decide what action to take are Alfred and Deadman. Whatever is decided, I’ll be backing those two against the machine.

  220. DrBeauGan

    Dot is 100% right. In that forum any argument would fail. Alfred made his point forcefully and will be remembered for it.
    Denise, you have been confusing the customs of your tribe with moral law. The reactions of you and your tribe are irrelevant to what happened at the meeting.
    All Alfred needs to do now is to undercut their support among the candies and denises and get them on side and he isolates the greenslime. Elementary tactics and a clear win.

  221. calli

    Ruritania?

    I’ve met soooo many tin pot half wits, I can’t help but make fun of her. Poor Alfred. Poor Deadman. And poor Mum, who clearly loves her son dearly.

  222. Arnost

    Yes – Alfred is a juvenile and we have an unwritten convention that juveniles are given a bit of slack when they make mistakes. But obviously not in this case. Suspending someone is about the ultimate sanction available to teachers.

    Every student is following this with interest. They know that no one was suspended for having a potty mouth on campus let alone off campus. It’s obvious that he’s singled out for max punishment for something else… And you don’t need to be Einstein to figure out what that is.

    This is why I’m riled up – the school has used the thermonuclear option first up. Regardless of whether Alfred gets suspended of not, the message has been sent. Don’t question the greenslimers. Keep your opinions to yourself and be a good sheep. THAT is the tragedy in this. 97% of kids in that school will now not question greenslime authority again without remembering this lesson. Objective achieved.

    And don’t think the leftie Principal and Veep don’t know this. Just like McKim knew the 97% stat was crap.

    What a cesspit this is…

  223. .

    Elementary tactics and a clear win.

    This is why they are angry. They lost a set piece battle to a rookie.

    Nothing else matters.

  224. Oh come on

    Not if Alfred manages to beat the rap, Arnost…to the barricades!

    Although let’s stay on-message and avoid bizarrely pivoting to pet issues which have no relation to the matter. The left is a master at taking dives to earn penalty kicks – don’t let them earn them fairly.

  225. jumpnmcar

    Home schooling may just be the ticket for the boy.
    Or
    Ahh, yip-yip-yip-yip-yip-yip-yip-yip
    Mum-mum-mum-mum-mum-mum, get a job
    Sha-na-na-na, sha-na-na-na-na

    ( just trying to help)

  226. ev425128

    Jump, yeah, what would I know, being parent to a 20, a 19 & an 18 year-old. And their friends. One now in the second year of apprenticeship, the other two in uni.

    Profanity is like a highlighter. I hate it, but there it is. “Fucking” just makes the noun louder, “C*nt” directs the statement loudly at the subject.

  227. DrBeauGan

    Not only is Alfred a juvenile, so was his audience, and I think he understands them a sight better than the pompous overconditioned monoculturalists here who go over all quivery at a few vulgarisms.

  228. jumpnmcar

    .

    Were you?

    I never claimed to know “the feeling in the room” ev did.

  229. Grigory M

    Ahh, yip-yip-yip-yip-yip-yip-yip-yip
    Mum-mum-mum-mum-mum-mum, get a job
    Sha-na-na-na, sha-na-na-na-na

    Holy crap. That’s a blast from the past.

  230. A transcript of the end of the meeting:

    Principal: If I was employing you, and you used that language in my workplace, I’d sack you. So that, in a work—, in a school environment, if you used that language, and I was observing it, I’d feel threatened. I might laugh, but I’d actually feel threatened. I’d feel insulted. I would be shocked, and I would be very, very offended. And I would hope that someone would make that right, and that they would think about what they could do to make that right.
    Deadman: See, the interesting thing is th—
    Principal: I’m not going to debate that, sorry. I’ll get you Judy Travers’s ’phone number, and we’ll see you on Wednesday at nine o’clock, I think it is.

  231. ev425128

    Not quite, jump [and I really don’t want to get into an argument with a “regular” in the first thread I’ve really participated in].

    I said that the audience was juvenile. Alfred was surrounded by students from his school.

    You asked whether I was there to observe the response. I wasn’t. I’d be interested to hear about the response from the teenagers in the audience.

  232. jumpnmcar

    ev425128
    I hear ya.
    Mine 22,20 and 17.
    Any of them said “Please stop lying; the 97% statistic if f*cking bullshit, and you f*cking know it, you c*nt.” in public they’d cop an upside to the head despite them being bigger.
    Probably make me a fascist but there you go.

  233. DrBeauGan

    Arnost, if Alfred plays smart he will win hands down and be a hero. He may be a hero even if he scews up. Lefties hate a display of courage, it forces them to confront their own gutlessness, but most Aussie kids admire it. If he tries a smart finesse, they’ll love it.

  234. calli

    Any of them said “Please stop lying; the 97% statistic if f*cking bullshit, and you f*cking know it, you c*nt.” in public they’d cop an upside to the head despite them being bigger.

    Lol! I’m five foot two and a half inches (dunno what that is in the new money), and I would do the same. But once it goes outside the family, it’s all lockstep. And if the sprog is pulling up a liar with the truth, even more so.

  235. Arnost

    Someone needs to do a Topher type video deconstructing the issues… In the hope it goes viral on Youtube.

Comments are closed.