Day 11 of a broken promise

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226 Responses to Day 11 of a broken promise

  1. MemoryVault

    Oneth?

    First time for everything.

  2. Infidel Tiger

    Election now. Abbott out.

  3. Disillusioned

    If the poll results are truly the feelings of the community then they haven’t come down from the high that Labour gave them and are looking for another fix. I will add that if current budget leaks are correct I am disgusted that so many opportunities to reduce the pork with ABC/SBS, arts/sports, fake non-profit tax breaks, tax loopholes and numerous other rorting avenues have not been culled in their entirety. Arts and sports get heavy commercial sponsorship so there is no need to put any public money into those areas in a time of heavy deficit. There are many areas where the government could cut gross waste and stop lobbyists in their tracks. As to mortgages that are on the brink with the slightest rise I have no sympathy. I bought my house when the interest rates were 13.5% but it was after the government guaranteed those locked in at that rate were isolated from further rise. My mortgage hit 17% thanks to Paul Keeting.. Don’t look to me for sympathy if rates rise as I have payed in the past and now am expected to pay again. You’ve never had it so good as you have it now and if you haven’t prepared for interest hikes, tough bikkies.

  4. Clam Chowdah

    What a disappointment. Electoral suicide.

  5. mareeS

    Sinclair, you really have me wondering about whether there were screeching banshees in your grannies’ attics, or whether you’ve just been captured by the barking mad people at ANU.

    The spouse and I in our professional lives were earning high 6 figures per annum from 1985 until 7figs when we retired to the boat in 2002. We live happily off our SMSF + stuff. We don’t see that Abbott has broken a promise to us. He hasn’t upped our taxes, because we don’t pay any. We live from our own provision.

    And quite frankly, you lot who are whingeing about a bit of higher personal tax should think back in history to when we in business employing 60+ people, and were paying 28% interest on our bank overdraft to keep the business going, and our houses were in the hands of the banks.

    That was under the doomlord treasurer Paul Keating. in the 1990s. It could happen to you in future if you go along like this to kill this present government and let those bastards back in.

    This is my warning: Abbott and Hockey have the interests of the nation at heart, the other bastards have only their own interests and those of their corrupt mates in play. Trust me on this, I’ve been there, you are abetting them at present.

  6. Chris M

    My mortgage hit 17% thanks to Paul Keeting..

    Out of interest (no pun) what was the cost of an average house at that time?

  7. Infidel Tiger

    Short of revealing that he is in a polyamorous relationship with Gillard and Swan, what more could Abbott do to screw the pooch?

  8. Gab

    It appears some pooches like being screwed.

  9. Infidel Tiger

    MareeS, that’s fantastic. We’re all super chuffed your sitting pretty and Abbot’s malfeasance won’t affect you. Some of us have jobs and families and don’t like being raped by lying larcenist swines of any stripe.

    For gods sake, we know Labor suck dick. At least they are upfront about it.

  10. Gavin R Putland

    Well, y’know, if you make a virtue of not taxing economic rent, you end up having to tax hard-earned salaries. And if you make a virtue of not taxing the things that you ostensibly don’t want, you end up having to tax the things that you ostensibly do want. And if you squeeze the balloon somewhere, it ends up poppin’ out somewhere else.

    Sure, it’s a terrible outcome. But what else could one expect?

  11. JC

    For gods sake, we know Labor suck dick. At least they are upfront about it.

    Anything other than upfront would be impossible , no?

  12. JC

    Short of revealing that he is in a polyamorous relationship with Gillard and Swan, what more could Abbott do to screw the pooch?

    I’d say having a relationship with Tubbse Milne and Lee Rhiannon at the same time? That would be worse.

    The slapper isn’t that bad looking face wise.

  13. mareeS

    ChrisM,

    Cost of an average house is irrelevant if the interest on a mortgage is 17%. The fact of 17% interest means the economy is fucked, as it was under Keating.

  14. JC

    mareeS

    The nominal rate of interest is irrelevant if businesses and workers are being compensated through higher prices and increased wages. That’s what was happening in the 80’s. You weren’t paying 17 interest rates without those dynamics occurring. So don’t ask us to cry you a river.

    Abbott promised not to raise taxes. He’s obviously caught because he also promised to make good on most of the big Liars Party spending promises the near future. He shouldn’t have made those promises in order to win government.

    Frankly, I don’t quite see the difference between Liars and the libs if he’s going to underwrite all of Liars party spending commitments with higher taxes on his own constituency.

  15. JC

    Cost of an average house is irrelevant if the interest on a mortgage is 17%.

    Are you half asleep or something? You’re actually saying that 17% on 100,000 vs 17% on 400,000 is irrelevant? How did you do in Math class out of interest?

  16. mareeS

    IT,

    Like most here, the spouse and I have worked since our teens, we have kids who are also working, in the mines and in the towns. We’re not being raped by this govt, for fucks sake! But we were certainly being done over by the last lot. What do you want for Australia if you’re prepared to sink this government.?

    I am prepared to give them a go for their term and see what happens.

  17. JC

    MareeS

    He lied. He broke a pledge.

  18. mareeS

    JC, what is it about 17% interest that you didn’t get? Or about 28% for a business overdraft? Those were the Keating days of the “recession we had to have.”

  19. mareeS

    “He lied. He broke a pledge.”

    She Lied. She broke a pledge.

    “By 1990 no child will live in poverty.”

    “Mummy, he’s pointing his finger at me.”

    Get over it. Christ Almighty, are we a nation of juveniles?

  20. JC

    JC, what is it about 17% interest that you didn’t get? Or about 28% for a business overdraft? Those were the Keating days of the “recession we had to have.”

    The 17% interest rate was nominal as 6% is now and both prices and wages were going just as quickly in nominal terms too at the time. You also only needed to borrow 100,000 for that same house you’re paying $1.5 million for now.

    Do your sums. $17,000 vs $90,000 now

  21. JC

    “He lied. He broke a pledge.”

    She Lied. She broke a pledge.

    And they both deserve to be thrown out of office.

    Get over it. Christ Almighty, are we a nation of juveniles?

    Are you crazy? Some of us want to punish severely any senior politician who lies.

  22. mareeS

    28% was actual interest on a multi-mill bank arrangement, JC. Imagine digesting that, week by week, and managing the creditors/debtors/ wages, not much wonder so many business went under at the time.

    However, ours didn’t. because we kept to basic principles of managing within our means, which the present government is attempting to do. They have my full support if they stay within reasonable business management principles (and ditch PPL for the present, and totally turf the environment stuff).

    As for the house, borrowed $9.500 in 1976.Worth $2m, should our kids euthenaise us now?

  23. JC

    MarreeS

    I think you’ll find that the high levels of interest in those days were only marginally worse than the 10% rates now that small business is being asked to cough up.

  24. mareeS

    JC, at our yacht club there’s a boat named “Anger Management.” The boss put his son and son-in-law on it in Sunday races to sort things out. They never did, but the boss sails every Sunday quite happily without either the son or son-in-law, so there’s a message:

  25. JC

    I don’t quite get the message.

  26. squawkbox

    I don’t quite get the message.

    I do. Shorter Maree S: I’m alright, Jack. Fuck you.

  27. mareeS

    JC, What didn’t you understand about 28% interest on an overdraft? That’s not “marginally worse than 10%.” It’s murderous to a business where all owners have to put all assets up to the bank just to keep operating.

    Do you not have any idea about the destruction? You really don’t have a clue, do you?

  28. Yohan

    Before the election and just after the election, Joe Hockey made a series of statements that can only lead us to the conclusion that he drinks the Keynesian Kool-Aid about government spending and aggregate demand.

    He said multiple times that we cannot cut spending too much because it will effect the economic recovery.

    I was in denial about this, hoping that with time he would not be proven and economic incompetent, but here we are.

  29. mareeS

    As you say, squawkbox, I’m a libertarian.

  30. JC

    marreeS

    I do actually. It’s you that doesn’t.

    28% interest could be a lot better than 1% in the right circumstances. If you’re borrowing at 28% and are able to push up prices for your products or services to compensate for that, then you could be doing better than someone borrowing at 1% and experiencing a drop in prices. The cost of credit is meaningless unless the wider environment is understood.

  31. mareeS

    JC, I’ll talk sums with you later, the spouse and the kitty cats are beckoning, and the rain is pouring down. Time to say nighty-night.

  32. James B

    I would prefer you just came out and said you love big government, mareeS.

    People voting for the blue team just because is what got us into this mess.

    People who currently vote Liberal or National would be far better served either voting Family First (for those who want genuinely small government + social conservatism), LDP (for the libertarians) or for those who vote Nats a country-oriented party like the SFP.

    You can’t waste your vote.

  33. Megan

    Well, that result is not a surprise. What’s the bet those responsible for this dumb decision (hello Cabinet, that would be you) are busy telling everyone…”Let’s not be poll driven, Labor did that and it did not end well.”? Gillard broke her promises and so have you, no matter how much you dress it down with verbal semantics. I have no more respect for you than I did for them.

    No point in arguing they have done it for the right reasons. That was Labor’s position as well. I already have very low expectations of politicians but this is below the bar as far as I’m concerned. I’m left with no credible alternative to vote for.

  34. James B

    I very much hope Tony Abbott is voted out in a landslide in a couple of years.

    I don’t even care that it’ll be a Labor+Greens government. Anything to see this lying statist coward fuck off and die.

  35. James B

    Megan: as I said, Family First or LDP. Pick one.

  36. Natural Instinct

    Abbott first speech 31 May 1994

    When authority first came to the Warringah district, the inhabitants showed what they thought of government policies by spearing Governor Phillip in the shoulder…. One of the depressing features of modern Australia is the low esteem in which governments and politicians are generally held.

    Australians rightly object to higher taxes because they observe that most government spending disappears down a bottomless well. Government often seems like an evening out—it costs a fortune and in the morning there is little to show for all the expense.

  37. lem

    It’s all over Abbott. You do not have what it takes to come back from here.

  38. Tom

    The Abbott government struggles to find ways of paying for Labor’s $400+ billion in annual spending:

    MORE than 200 spending programs will be slashed in next week’s federal budget as Joe Hockey vows to shrink the size of government in a “big, structural change” to save billions of dollars.

    Agencies will be closed and thousands of staff retrenched over the coming months in a drastic overhaul that will start with the loss of 3000 positions in the Treasurer’s own portfolio.

    The axe will fall in major portfolios including environment, transport, industry, agriculture and indigenous affairs.

    Mr Hockey told The Australian that spending cuts would do the “heavy lifting” in fixing the deficit, despite growing criticism of looming tax hikes including a lift in fuel excise.

    “Revenue is not doing the heavy lifting in this budget,” Mr Hockey said.

    As foreshadowed in The Australian yesterday, fuel excise will be increased to raise an estimated $2.4 billion over four years, amid accusations that the move would be another breach of Tony Abbott’s election pledge to keep taxes down.

    The decision is another hit on top of an income tax increase likely to apply to incomes over $180,000 despite warnings from Liberal MPs against the idea.

    Mr Hockey said there would be a “massive, massive cut” to government payments as a percentage of the economy over the coming four years and he hit back at concerns he might act too slowly on spending cuts.

    “There won’t be any suggestion that we’re doing nothing when you look at the budget,’’ he said.

    “It’s not a do-nothing budget, I can assure you, because there are a number of structural initiatives. Obviously, when there are structural initiatives, they take time. But where we can we have started initiatives on the first of July this year or next year.”

    $235 billion, Joe. That’s the number you’ll be judged against. The people who got you over the line in 2013 won’t bother next time if they’re going to get the same tax-and-spend Liars program.

  39. Greigoz

    So Sinc (et al), what are you asking for? Throw the Libs out and give those other competent angels another go in office? Or maybe we replace Abbott with Hockey, who can dither under pressure and was the architect of the Debt Levy. Hey, or maybe Malcolm (I’ve never met a Labor/Green policy I didn’t like) Turnbull? Think it through….

  40. Blogstrop

    Wow. What a crowd. Attacking MareeS for having achieved what you’d normally approve of, but since she’s not toeing the party line about Abbott and Hockey, it’s all abusive or contrariness.

  41. tomix

    PPL, Sirs and Dames, Debt Levy, Aboriginal Recognition in Constitution,, Captains calls.

    This is the sort of arrogant behaviour that got Turnbull rolled.

  42. Blogstrop

    Greigoz, I’m forced to the conclusion that it’s an exercise in arse covering. You know, so they can say they criticise both sides, unlike the ABC and luvvie media. It’s leading to some bizzaro behaviour, like IT turning into Hammy.

  43. Biota

    A touch of OCD now I think.

  44. Senile Old Guy

    Attacking MareeS for having achieved what you’d normally approve of, but since she’s not toeing the party line about Abbott and Hockey, it’s all abusive or contrariness.

    Nope. Attacking MareeS for this, as squackbox says:

    I do. Shorter Maree S: I’m alright, Jack. Fuck you.

  45. Tiny Dancer

    TLS has huge bazookas. I think we’ve overlooked that important fact.

  46. cynical1

    Shorter Maree S: I’m alright, Jack. Because I worked my arse off and took risks.

    FIFY.

    Business was no birthday party in those times…

  47. So Sinc (et al), what are you asking for? Throw the Libs out and give those other competent angels another go in office?

    Here we go again.
    The implied blackmail from Lib HQ; “let us do whatever we want because, well, you don’t want Labor back in charge, do you? Thought not. Run along now.”

    Here’s a counter message to those who are swayed by this.

    1. First, major parties care about their primary vote. It matters. Voting someone else first as a protest will make them nervous, even if you give preferences.

    2. These things have effects at the margins; it’s not just about Labor v Liberal/National, it’s also Lib/Nat v various independents that pop up, and in the senate there is more diversity again.

    3. These guys are shooting themselves in the foot. Friends tell friends when they are about to do that.

  48. I am still hoping it’s all a big false flag operation and we can all laugh about it on Wednesday.

  49. Paul

    The worry is that they think that switching their vote back and forth will actually fix something.

  50. The worry is that they think that switching their vote back and forth will actually fix something.

    It will.

  51. Tom

    The non-left vote is now splintering, like the left vote did in 2010. The LNP lying to what is rapidly becoming its former constituency is simply hastening the process. LNP and ALP will both struggle to get a 30% primary vote in 2016 — or whenever the DD election is called beforehand.

  52. JohnA

    Ye gods, JC, you really don’t understand!

    28% interest could be a lot better than 1% in the right circumstances. If you’re borrowing at 28% and are able to push up prices for your products or services to compensate for that, then you could be doing better than someone borrowing at 1% and experiencing a drop in prices. The cost of credit is meaningless unless the wider environment is understood.

    Your argument is based on the unwarranted assumption that all those costs can be passed on in prices to the business’s customers.

    I was the accountant at a small community credit union in those days, and those rates nearly killed us. People could not afford to borrow. Our members in their small businesses were bleeding badly; our members on their fixed incomes were cutting corners everywhere.

    Wages did not always keep pace with inflation, because the economy was terribly ossified – none of the structural flexibility we have these days. Fixed exchange rates, pegged interest rates, centralised wage fixing, featherbedding (well, some things still have to be fixed, I suppose).

    There were two things that broke the back of the stagflation mess – the wage freeze and the floating/sinking of the dollar. And Hawke/Keating made those decisions in the teeth of all they believed in on their side of the political fence. The Dry arguments prevailed, mostly through bi-partisan policy formulation, although John Hyde would say the work wasn’t properly finished.

  53. A Lurker

    mareeS, in their haste to condemn and punish Abbott (and to be fair, he and his advisors have not been clever or canny) there are many on this site that are of haste to throw Australia out with the Coalition bathwater.

    As for myself – well I have written and sent emails to my local Liberal MP, to Tony Abbott, and to the Liberal Party in general. They know (if they deign to read my musings) of my feelings. I have done all that is possible that one person, one taxpayer, and one voter can do. I will not condemn the Government on this one budget alone, but will properly weigh them at election time, because although the measure seems weighted against them right now, they may balance out the scales later – time will tell. I too know that whatever the Coalition has done, cannot in any way, shape or form, be a worse evil than Labor/Greens, and to say otherwise is pure hyperbole. Labor/Greens have evil and malign plans for our country – the Coalition, for all their stumbling, ineptness and bad advice, do seem at least to hold some regard and concern for Australia. So until a major party Conservative/Libertarian choice exists, then they are the only option – the best of a bad lot, because staying at home to avoid voting, voting for easily-bought Independents, or spoiling one’s ballot strikes me as effectively voting for a return of Labor/Greens, something a true patriot could not ever do, and would give Australia such a dark future from which it might take decades to recover.

  54. Mr Excitement

    1. First, major parties care about their primary vote. It matters. Voting someone else first as a protest will make them nervous, even if you give preferences.

    Fair enough, but many here are calling for the coalition to be voted out. That means Labor back in power.

    Labor’s current position is that there is no problem with the budget. Last week, in a doorstop, Shorten had to correct himself mid sentence from saying “fix the budget” to “make the budget do better”.
    Just stop and think back. Rudd and Gillard may be gone, but morons like Conroy, Plibersek, Burke, Cameron, Wong et al are all still there eager to continue their path of destruction. If you want a broken promise to rail against then you need look no further than Rudd’s Education Revolution. All he did was waste billions on over priced, unnecessary school halls and eight years later we are stuck trying to pay for wasteful Gonski “reforms”.
    I’m far from happy about the proposed tax hikes but wishing Labor back is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

  55. Senile Old Guy

    All he did was waste billions on over priced, unnecessary school halls and eight years later we are stuck trying to pay for wasteful Gonski “reforms”.

    Why are we stuck? Hint: it’s got something to do with Tony Abbott.

  56. Jeff T

    MareeS’s 17% interest bill on gross 1980 dollars would have to be indexed to make a comparison. She is right. Those interest rates were a killer.

  57. Mr Excitement

    Why are we stuck? Hint: it’s got something to do with Tony Abbott.

    It’s got a lot to do with a spoiled electorate that are content with all of their big government spending programs because they haven’t worked out that the other people’s money they are hooked on is actually coming out of their pockets. Pre election polling showed large numbers of low information voters in favour of Gonski and the NDIS, and Labor used this to wedge the opposition into supporting it.

    Not everyone is as engaged with politics as the people on this blog. The electorate gets the politicians it deserves.

  58. entropy

    I do not agree with that A Lurker. I do not believe that the ALP/Greens are evil. Incredibly stupid, incompetent, dangerous and misguided, true, but not evil. Who knows what sent them off the rails, but it was enough to permanently damage their thinking process. Look at Numbres. That he was a teacher explains why nobody with any sense wants to be one, because they don’t want to be like him. But he had an event that effected him so badly it permanently destroyed his ability to think. What might have been if he had a different life?

    This mob seem to have a different motivation. Sure they understand the importance of living within their means, but they also have an overriding destructive desire to obtain love from the very people that will never give it to them, in the media and on the left. So they come up with numpty ideas like thinking they just can’t cut spending if a significant group of people won’t be effected by the cuts, simply because the spending isn’t being spent on them. The media will say they are punishing the poor and leaving the rich alone. Bu trashier than ignoring it, they come up with pointless gesture taxes that just piss of the liberal base, and doesn’t swing one single vote their way from the left. It’s a different kind of stupid compared with the idiocy of Swan, but its still stupid.

    The really sad bit is that as their base realises they are just as stupid as the ALP, the right will splinter like the left already has. In their anger, they will vote for something worse in clowns like Palmer (Katter is done, his votes stolen by Clive). I understand why you think that would be worse, because it will be. Even worse than we imagine. It will be Italy in the antipodes. But that is what happens when trust is wilfully destroyed for stupid reasons.

  59. .

    You’ve never had it so good as you have it now and if you haven’t prepared for interest hikes, tough bikkies.

    Thanks Liberal party. We’ll now bend over for the income tax and excise tax hikes.

    Maybe it wasn’t you, Malcolm Fraser or John Howard that made us prosperous – it was the workers and business owners themselves?

  60. Combine_Dave

    I’m far from happy about the proposed tax hikes but wishing Labor back is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

    We threw the trash out due to their crap policies and the LNP are bringing those policies back…

    Their new high taxing attitudes are most unwelcome.

    I am sure Abbott will be better at implementing these rather than Liars Party. Doesn’t make me feel better to see taxes raise and the economy contract.

  61. Joe Goodacre

    Swing against Liberals…

    What’s more likely – all these people who were expecting spending cuts start polling for Labor because a tax increase is coming, or talk about the spending cuts/ changes to medicare/pensions is giving people buyers remorse.

    Anyone who cares about spending cuts, is not going to vote Labor because Liberals didn’t do enough…

    The poll to me, seems to be measuring the unpopularity of talk of spending cuts as opposed to the proposed revenue increase.

  62. Motelier

    From a small business person.

    Some background, our northern motel is in central Queensland on a major highway. Our business is based around business travelers, people from regional areas coming to the “big smoke” for shopping, banking, legal and medical reasons, miners on fly/drive and bona fide tourists traveling up and down the highways.

    In the last 12 months in my industry the following is happening.

    3 motel have gone into receivership. 6 have changed hands at rock bottom prices. The cause is a large reduction in income for these businesses.

    On our part we went on an extreme cost cutting exercise.

    The chef went from full time to casual on a call in type basis.
    The cook went from rostered part time to casual on call in.
    The two housekeepers who where casual had hours greatly reduced.

    As the business owner, I had to take a greater physical presence in my business. However we are surviving, just.

    The bottom line is that the total tax receipts from my business are going to be far lower. But I have cut costs when the income stream is down.

    I fail to see why an ethical government can not do the same thing if there is a Budget Emergency.

    The first to go would be really hard at all government expenditure. And it is good to see the MSM bleating on about Government organisations to be cut.

    Secondly, the Government must find a way to reduce the numbers on “welfare”. More people employed is a start as it can increase the tax return to the governement but as incomes increase then the amount of welfare paid reduces.

  63. .

    Nope. Attacking MareeS for this, as squackbox says:

    I do. Shorter Maree S: I’m alright, Jack. Fuck you.

    Exactly. Low interest rates now and mountains of red tape before you get off the bat and inflated property prices – it doesn’t matter how low rates go if your fixed start up costs are too large.

    Interest rates from 1990 don’t matter anymore.

    This is why:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_theory_of_the_price_level

  64. Combine_Dave

    Pre election polling showed large numbers of low information voters in favour of Gonski and the NDIS, and Labor used this to wedge the opposition into supporting it.

    What does the polling suggest the low info voters now believed?

    Something about opposition to great big new tax imposts…. and a broken promise?

  65. .

    The first to go would be really hard at all government expenditure. And it is good to see the MSM bleating on about Government organisations to be cut.

    At a minimum they should freeze spending, and raise no new taxes and scrap the MRRT and carbon pricing.

  66. It’s got a lot to do with a spoiled electorate that are content with all of their big government spending programs because they haven’t worked out that the other people’s money they are hooked on is actually coming out of their pockets.

    No. No. No.
    This is superstitious thinking within the Coalition.

    They are so convinced of the depth of the public’s addiction to spending that that are terrified of cutting. This is not based on fact. It’s based on nothing more than the whispers of spin doctors, administrators, and fearful advisors.

    It was pretty clear that Abbott stood for cuts, and the electorate voted for him anyway. If the electorate wanted high taxing and high spending they could have stuck with Rudd.

  67. .

    Speaking of costs, Abbott must cut spending and lower the debt year by year without raising taxes.

    The Australian dollar is too high. It rose after the stimulus and never really fell down to sustainable levels. Our dollar should not be near parity at such low interest rates.

    Nor are these low interest rates particularly good. Invariably, they will create another boom/bust.

    https://mises.org/daily/672

    “Austrian Business Cycle Theory: A Brief Explanation”

    We are better off with higher central bank cash rates, less debt and a currency on par or lower than the recent range it has been trading in.

  68. Pre election polling showed large numbers of low information voters in favour of Gonski and the NDIS, and Labor used this to wedge the opposition into supporting it.

    But they don’t know what it is!
    The support of low-info voters for policy items is very soft. They will move on to the next shiny thing in a heartbeat. If the coalition supported these policies on that kind of polling then they’re just dumb.

  69. Mr Excitement

    Something about opposition to great big new tax imposts…. and a broken promise?

    Considering that 1/4 of taxpayers pay 2/3 of the income tax I think they care more about the broken promise than they do about the tax increase, because someone else will be paying it.

  70. Rabz

    TLS has huge bazookas. I think we’ve overlooked that important fact.

    And a massive lard encrusted backside that is visible from space – and thus impossible to overlook.

  71. .

    They are so convinced of the depth of the public’s addiction to spending that that are terrified of cutting. This is not based on fact. It’s based on nothing more than the whispers of spin doctors, administrators, and fearful advisors.

    Correct. They want cuts. They want top down cuts of Ministers and departmental salaries. They want useless positions like the commissioner for the status of women scrapped. They want the climate commission and direct actions crapped. They are suspicious as to why the federal education department even exists.

    They want tax relief for all and to hold pensions stable.

    It is bizarre Abbott and Hockey can’t see this.

  72. Empire Strikes Back

    entropy
    #1298294, posted on May 9, 2014 at 7:59 am

    An erudite summary of an intractable challenge.

  73. .

    As to the theory Abbott and Hockey are sucker punching us into tax cuts galore…

    Why are they pushing that income tax and excise tax both be increased?

  74. A Lurker

    @ entropy, perhaps not all Labor/Greens are evil, but the ones who make policy, control and create the narrative, and rise to leadership are evil. For instance the Pink Batts scheme – they were warned that it would kill, yet arrogantly they still went ahead with it, and yes three young men lost their lives. Thousands of lives were lost when Labor opened our borders, yet still they stuck with it, even when innocent children vanished beneath the waves, because to shut our borders would mean they would lose political face. Then you have the Live Export decision – how many farmers lost their livelihood or even their will to live after that fiasco. Then you have the Carbon Tax, an unnecessary and unwanted impost on our lives, making paying for every little thing more expensive. Then you have the profligate spending on useless, unwanted, unwarranted stuff. Also their desire to ‘utterly transform’ Australia into something Communistic/Socialistic without our leave, and the way that the adherents of their political doctrine have infiltrated all of our institutions with the same aim. Then there are the personal things – like supporting the lowlife Craig Thomson even when they knew he was guilty – supporting Slipper when they knew of his past – Gillard and the AWU-WRA affair – the Senior Labor Figure – and always the undercurrents of criminal corruption.

    If all of the above is not evil – then I don’t know what else you could call it.

  75. Empire Strikes Back

    And a massive lard encrusted backside that is visible from space – and thus impossible to overlook.

    Cue confected misogyny outrage 😉

  76. The really sad bit is that as their base realises they are just as stupid as the ALP, the right will splinter like the left already has. In their anger, they will vote for something worse in clowns like Palmer (Katter is done, his votes stolen by Clive). I understand why you think that would be worse, because it will be.

    Under the right circumstances the Nationals could become an alternative right party almost overnight. Not under the current situation, or current policy settings. But they have the infrastructure of a major party.

  77. Old School Conservative

    At least they are upfront about it
    No IT – labor was promising budget surpluses in defiance of all facts and logic. They lied.

  78. whyisitso

    Abbott and Hockey have the interests of the nation at heart, the other bastards have only their own interests and those of their corrupt mates in play

    Just watch when the euphoria of Davidson, C.L. etc etc after the bloodbath of next election night in 2015 fades, after a few days and is replaced by the reality of a Greens/ALP coalition.

  79. Rabz

    If these idiots are going to break a pre-election assurance, why couldn’t it have involved gutting the ALPBC* – and thus annoying a bunch of privileged, parasitic inner city hypocrites who would never vote for Abbott, Hockey and the Liberal party in the first place?

    Seriously, who would give a rodent’s backside if the fucking AHRC was shut down and its resident pontificating parasites punted off the public teat?

    But what do we get instead? No course correction, just the entrenchment of the leftist luvvie bleatocracy and to add insult to injury, higher taxes to ‘pay’ for it all**.

    I’m absolutely fucking fed up, peoples, I tells ya! 😡

    *Yes, I am aware of the Australia Network announcement – baby steps.
    **Yes, yes, false flag, testing the waters, etc.

  80. Joe Goodacre

    Aussiepundit,


    It was pretty clear that Abbott stood for cuts, and the electorate voted for him anyway. If the electorate wanted high taxing and high spending they could have stuck with Rudd.

    When was Rudd promising tax increases?

    It seemed to me that Rudd’s platform was ‘not Abbott or Gillard’ and Abott’s was ‘not Labor + we’ll stop the boats, remove the carbon tax, bring in PPL and (small print) not touch Gonski, ABC, SBS, Medicare, pensions, NDIS or raise taxes. For a mandate to exist, doesn’t someone have to campaign on the issue? Abbott seemed to be promising no major changes to spending (apart from removing ‘waste’) + adding more spending.

  81. viva

    Get over it. Christ Almighty, are we a nation of juveniles?

    Maree I tried to convey a similar sentiment yesterday and got absolutely nowhere. I wish you luck.

  82. Abbott’s was ‘not Labor + we’ll stop the boats, remove the carbon tax, bring in PPL and (small print) not touch Gonski, ABC, SBS, Medicare, pensions, NDIS or raise taxes.

    Abbott was note perfect in his 2013 budget reply.
    He basically said, paraphrasing, we’re not going to make any promises and we will cut whatever needs cutting.
    Then as soon as the election campaign started he went to water and made all kinds of silly promises.

  83. .

    No, we won’t get over a broken promise that leads us further down the primrose path of entitlement and also further saps our productive capacity.

    Remind yourself Abbott is flagging raising TWO taxes now.

  84. .

    whyisitso
    #1298338, posted on May 9, 2014 at 8:31 am

    Just watch when the euphoria of Davidson, C.L. etc etc after the bloodbath of next election night in 2015 fades, after a few days and is replaced by the reality of a Greens/ALP coalition.

    This is like blaming the victim.

    We are not bound to vote for the Coalition. We owe nothing to them.

    They are intent on breaking promises and underwriting the programmes of the socialists they ostensibly oppose.

    Blame the electorate if you lose?

    This is the kind of crap Margot Kingston used to dish out, ala Keating.

  85. .

    In forgot to add, brilliant stuff Professor, keep it up.

  86. struth

    Numbers is a teacher.
    Brainwashed by other institutionalised, insulated public servants called “teachers” he is just another product of the real disaster visited upon Australia. Our education system. Until we rid the education system of the extreme leftism it now indoctrinates our young with, we have no hope. This is the reason for all our ills. It is the start. The reason our main stream media is left wing, the reason for our entire envious , entitlement expecting, lazy, politically naive, constitutionally unaware recent generations exist. It could well be argued that a few education bureaucrats are holding this country to ransom and wielding far too much sway. The recent gutless decisions to tax the rich, by Abbott, has it’s roots here. If the media weren’t so blatently left wing, maybe he wouldn’t feel the need to placate them. He shouldn’t anyway, but our education system brainwashed media are a problem this country can ill afford.
    The country will never be fixed until we see this sector pulled into line. They are the root cause.

  87. brc

    What’s more likely – all these people who were expecting spending cuts start polling for Labor because a tax increase is coming, or talk about the spending cuts/ changes to medicare/pensions is giving people buyers remorse.

    At the risk of agreeing with Joe here, but we need to be wary about thinking the poll falls are due to the tax imposition. It’s likely voters are more cheesed off with paying to see a doctor or the pension age increasing.

    I will write to my MP today, pleading with them to dump direct action and the deficit tax. I suggest you all do the same.

  88. At the risk of agreeing with Joe here, but we need to be wary about thinking the poll falls are due to the tax imposition.

    It’s due to the tax.

  89. Joe Goodacre

    Aussiepundit,

    So if you agree that he made silly promises, how do you reconcile that with what you said earlier…

    No. No. No.
    This is superstitious thinking within the Coalition.

    They are so convinced of the depth of the public’s addiction to spending that that are terrified of cutting. This is not based on fact. It’s based on nothing more than the whispers of spin doctors, administrators, and fearful advisors.

    It was pretty clear that Abbott stood for cuts, and the electorate voted for him anyway. If the electorate wanted high taxing and high spending they could have stuck with Rudd.

    We may want Abbott to be a classically liberal PM however he didn’t campaign on that platform and it’s plausible that the swing in the polls is because the electorate thinks that he’s done a sneaky and is actually cutting more than they thought he would. If the mood in the electorate was strongly for spending cuts, wouldn’t both Abbott and Rudd have campaigned on that issue?

    The Cat runs the risk of being in a bubble that is out of touch with political reality. I remember being happy Abbott was elected because it meant that Labor and the Greens were out. Abbott’s been exceeding my expectations in regards to stopping the boats and his actions of not agreeing to handouts for the car industry and SPC. There isn’t a classically liberal electorate out there and all these complaints that Abbott hasn’t slashed and burnt are out of touch with political reality. Abbott is simply the messenger of the broader electorates preferences – we’ve been lucky in my view that he’s language after election has catered more to classical liberalism. That’s probably the cause of the slide in polls in my view.

  90. .

    I agree.

    The people pissed about a $6 co-payment are rusted on unionists and retirees who will never vote for anyone bar the ALP (they especially will not vote for Abbott 666), last election, they may have voted informally as a protest (as some of my relatives did).

  91. Beef

    TLS has huge bazookas. I think we’ve overlooked that important fact.

    And a massive lard encrusted backside that is visible from space – and thus impossible to overlook.

    It’s all scientifically mathematical.
    Einstein’s relativity principle helps explain any overlooking of bazookas (as per Rabz in space).

    The pear shape look will accentuate Newtons gravitational effects to the aforementioned bazookas, rendering them less prominent.

  92. Rabz

    When was Rudd promising tax increases?

    This type of idiocy is simply staggering. Rudd made several policy announcements pre-election that involved tax increases.

    Also, I don’t remember Rudd promising to abolish the health fund rebate, impose further tax imposts on superannuation, or increase the medicare levy to ‘fund’ the NDIS.

    In other words, Rudd was a lying little shithead who would have said anything to get re-elected. Fortunately, not even the Australian electorate was stupid enough to fall for that twice.

  93. .

    The Cat runs the risk of being in a bubble that is out of touch with political reality

    As do Abbott and Hockey.

    Abbott is simply the messenger of the broader electorates preferences

    Have you seen his poll numbers lately? FFS get a grip.

  94. Aristogeiton

    entropy
    #1298294, posted on May 9, 2014 at 7:59 am
    […]
    they also have an overriding destructive desire to obtain love from the very people that will never give it to them

    Too true.

  95. Rabz

    the real disaster visited upon Australia. Our education system

    Yep – illiterate, innumerate ahistorical ignoramuses are far, far easier for governments to control than a well educated population capable of considering matters on their merits.

  96. Andrew

    Nor are these low interest rates particularly good. Invariably, they will create another boom/bust.

    More tripe from misunderstanding textbooks. Our interest rates are not low. For most of economic history, the OCR is compensation for inflation – no more. THIS is the natural level of interest rates – and it took 5 years too long to get there thanks to the Goose’s bungling. Had he not talked up rates before, during and after the crisis we would not have had the currency disaster.

  97. tgs

    It’s pretty hilarious to see Maree et al whinging about 17% interest rates at a time when inflation was only a few points below that.

    I think some people need to go back to their Econ101 and understand the difference between nominal and real interest rates.

  98. Sinclair Davidson

    MareeS – yes, I hear what you’re saying. But the 12th commandment applies: They shalt not get away with it.

  99. Craig Mc

    As I see it, the overriding reason I voted LNP was to fix the budget and start paying back the debt. Everything else pales into insignificance.

    I’m against tax rises to do it (even if they don’t affect me personally), but if it takes a tax rise or two to politically push massive spending cuts through, then I can live with them. For now. It beats the shocking alternative on the other side of the chamber.

    What are the chances that the government is proposing tax increases it knows Clive will block, just so they can be seen to be fair without any real intention of ever getting those increases?

  100. .

    Andrew
    #1298367, posted on May 9, 2014 at 8:56 am
    Nor are these low interest rates particularly good. Invariably, they will create another boom/bust.

    More tripe from misunderstanding textbooks. Our interest rates are not low. For most of economic history, the OCR is compensation for inflation – no more. THIS is the natural level of interest rates – and it took 5 years too long to get there thanks to the Goose’s bungling. Had he not talked up rates before, during and after the crisis we would not have had the currency disaster.

    Champ, do you really want to go down this path as you demonstrated the other day you did not understand the Fisher equation?

    Furthermore, they don’t teach Rubinomics or Austrian theory out of textbooks, you have to look for it yourself in the literature.

    the OCR is compensation for inflation

    What?

    THIS is the natural level of interest rates – and it took 5 years too long to get there thanks to the Goose’s bungling. Had he not talked up rates before, during and after the crisis we would not have had the currency disaster.

    Oh so we do have a currency issue. Which is Wayne Swan’s fault.

    Which is what I said.

    You need to cut this alpha male crap. You’re not any good at it. Sledging someone and then rephrasing exactly what you said based on your own ignorance makes you look like a goose.

  101. .

    tgs
    #1298369, posted on May 9, 2014 at 8:58 am
    It’s pretty hilarious to see Maree et al whinging about 17% interest rates at a time when inflation was only a few points below that.

    I think some people need to go back to their Econ101 and understand the difference between nominal and real interest rates.

    All in all it is a bloody good reason to pay off the debt. Rubin was right.

  102. Rococo Liberal

    Three differences between the CO2 Tax lie and the Deficit Levy Lie

    1. The carbon tax was a specific lie, the deficit levy is not;
    2. the Coalition didn’t agree with the CO2 out of principle, the ALP actually quit likes the deficit levy, and will only oppose it for political reasons;
    3. The deficit levy won’t hit prices of goods and services across the country and wreck plenty of businesses as the CO2 tax has done.

  103. Rococo Liberal

    Having said that, what annoys me about the deficit levy is that it hurts Coalition supporters (ie taxpayers) to pay for shite labor policies.

  104. MT Isa Miner

    A Lurker

    #1298325, posted on May 9, 2014 at 8:20 am

    @ entropy, perhaps not all Labor/Greens are evil, but the ones who make policy, control and create the narrative, and rise to leadership are evil. For instance the Pink Batts scheme – they were warned that it would kill, yet arrogantly they still went ahead with it, and yes three young men lost their lives. Thousands of lives were lost when Labor opened our borders, yet still they stuck with it, even when innocent children vanished beneath the waves, because to shut our borders would mean they would lose political face. Then you have the Live Export decision – how many farmers lost their livelihood or even their will to live after that fiasco. Then you have the Carbon Tax, an unnecessary and unwanted impost on our lives, making paying for every little thing more expensive. Then you have the profligate spending on useless, unwanted, unwarranted stuff. Also their desire to ‘utterly transform’ Australia into something Communistic/Socialistic without our leave, and the way that the adherents of their political doctrine have infiltrated all of our institutions with the same aim. Then there are the personal things – like supporting the lowlife Craig Thomson even when they knew he was guilty – supporting Slipper when they knew of his past – Gillard and the AWU-WRA affair – the Senior Labor Figure – and always the undercurrents of criminal corruption.

    If all of the above is not evil – then I don’t know what else you could call it.

    When the Bundy kicks in I reckon they are not evil just gutless wonders- cowards. They’re like the slow learner kids at school. Look normal but can’t cut it.

    Growing up is what a normal man’s brain does when he wants to be a man and get himself a wife or what a woman does , especially one who wants to be a mother. Then you have to face the reality of JUST YOU. Takes guts to face reality.

    Some people hide from life on the government payroll. Some people hide from life by crippling themselves by being “gay” or “black” or “women” or” left” . They never risk failing because they never risk life. Gutless.

    What cards have you been dealt by life and how are you going to pay your hand. What job can I get? Who will marry me? What will my kids future be?

    Leftists deny the life lottery exists. Their life work is to lie about this. They lie to others so they can lie to themselves.

  105. Rabz

    What are the chances that the government is proposing tax increases it knows Clive will block, just so they can be seen to be fair without any real intention of ever getting those increases?

    Zero. It’s unvarnished stupidity and incompetence, not some tricky plan.

  106. Joe Goodacre

    Dot,

    Have you seen his poll numbers lately?

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Abbott has predominatly been talking the classically liberal talk – (stop boats, Carbon Tax, entitlement, debt, deficit, s 18C, handouts to companies) and Labor have been saying that Liberals are bigoted, mean to illegal immigrants and the poor. All the while Labor has been tainted by Bob Carr, Gillard and Rudd knifing each other and Shorten’s union troubles.

    So in this environment, the poll drop is supposedly because Abbott betrayed the electorate and isn’t cutting spending enough. Sure.

    The more I think of it, the more i think that Sinc is damaging his best alternative. Sure advocate for no tax raises and spending cuts – but this continual reference to Abbott breaking promises and comparing this to a Gillard moment is designed to do what exactly?

  107. Jason

    Okay so I get the fact that everyone here is going batshit crazy about the deficit tax but can we at least judge the budget in totality before we throw Abbott out.

    Whats the alternative, little Billy Shorten.

    Are you telling me that you would collectively prefer the ALP to Abbott introducing a deficit tax. Grow up, all the “Day 10 of a broken promise” wailing is doing is making an impossible job even harder.

    Does anyone really think they would even contemplate the DT let alone introduce it unless they really felt they had to, no one is going to actually sign up for this shitstorm unless they felt they really needed to.

    It cracks me up that Abbott has done a lot of good in the first 6 months of his term and all most of you want to do is become defacto cheerleaders for a change of government back to the ALP.

    I get the optics and the politics of the issue and understand that people are upset but for christ’s sake, have a sense of perspective, they have been served up a shit sandwich and we need to see all the detail and then pass judgement.

    If you lot are campaigning for a return of the ALP, do you really think a deficit tax will be the limit of your worries?

    Oh and yes I will be paying any deficit tax and get zippo from the government.

  108. Rococo Liberal

    May I make a further point?

    Can you Sinclair put your hand on your heart and tell me that the deficit levy is the reason for the change in the polls?

    Are you telling me that the envy driven oiks didn’t always vote Labor?

    Are you telling me that the upper classes, those who pay all the tax and vote Liberal, are gong to vote for the ALP because of the deficit levy?

    I think you will find that it more likely the sharpening of the rzor and the threatened $6 co-payment for doctors’ visits that is moving some of the lower orders to move towards Labor. The deficit levy wouldn’t affect these people, as they don’t actually pay any income tax.

  109. cohenite

    the real disaster visited upon Australia. Our education system

    Islam.

  110. Joe Goodacre

    cohenite,

    Islam.

    The decline of christianity.

  111. Rococo Liberal

    I too will be paying the deficit tax and getting nothing from the government.

    I agree completely with Jason.

    The whole idea of the deficit levy is to convinve the bogans that the ‘rich’ too are sharing some of the pain. The government is unpopular because of the pain is will be inflicting on the oiks, not the pain it will inflict on the upper classes.

    Do you people whinging about the deficit tax and thereby swooning at the feet of Bill Shorten’s Labor, really think that Labor will repeal the tax if they get back into government?

    In fact Labor will probably ensure that the deficit goes on longer than need be so as to keep the tax in place for as long as possible.

    At least with the Coalition there is some hope that the deficit will be eliminated in the foreseeable future.

    Only Nixon could go to China.

  112. struth

    How was islam allowed to become a disaster?
    Multiculturalism was forced down our children’s throats in school.
    No one voted for it.
    A left wing guilt for being white and western is pushed in our schools.
    Any culture is better than the white western way, is taught at our schools.

    It ALWAYS goes back to education.

  113. Grigory M

    has huge bazookas. I think we’ve overlooked that important fact.

    And a massive lard encrusted backside that is visible from space – and thus impossible to overlook.

    The weight of her fat arse has tilted the Earth on its axis – that’s clearly visible from space.

  114. cohenite

    Joe, I’m a secularist; a secular democracy provides freedom for all religions, even apparently communism since we have at least one communism in parliament.

    That system allows as it were a market place for all religions to compete for followers; but Muslims aren’t like Catholics, Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc all of whom practice their belief within the secular framework. Muslims don’t and they seek to replace the secular system with their own legal, economic and political framework, Sharia.

    In Sharia breaking a promise means never having to say you’re sorry because the promisee is usually dead.

  115. tgs

    All in all it is a bloody good reason to pay off the debt. Rubin was right

    Oh, I don’t disagree.

    I just laugh when older people complain about high interest rates when it was at a time when wages and inflation (i.e. erosion of the real cost of the debt) were growing rapidly as well. I’m sure it wasn’t a cakewalk, just the same as purchasing your first home today isn’t. But it wasn’t some feat of superhuman austerity and financial management either.

    Oldies seem to want a pat on the back or a cookie for paying 17% interest rates, as if inflation and wages were growing at current rates. They weren’t taking these loans out in an economic vacuum.

  116. MemoryVault

    Whats the alternative, little Billy Shorten.

    Let’s see. A vote for Shorten and the Liar’s Party is a vote for more lies, the NBN, NDIS, Gonski, an extravagant PPL we can’t afford, throwing cripples under a bus, and a carbon tax that’s increasing the cost of living across the board.

    On the other hand a vote for Abbott and the Fibs is a vote for more lies, the NBN, NDIS, Gonski, an even more extravagant PPL we can’t afford, throwing cripples and age pensioners under a bus, an increase in in the fuel excise levy that will increase the cost of living across the board, and a debt levy on productive people.

    Thanks Jason.
    You have opened my eyes to the glorious advantages of voting for the Fibs.
    How could I have not seen it before?

  117. Kaboom

    Look, the bottom line is that Abbott has every appearance of being a softcock.

    This has exposed the rusted-on Liberals at the Cat more than anything else. Anyone who believes in small government, balanced budgets, and fiscal responsibility is utterly appalled at the banal proclivities of the Abbott government.

    Most of us voted for “Cuts, cuts, cuts!”, and the only thing we received was a stiff upper-cut. This is the abject disappointment in the one-term Abbott government. We were mislead.

    This does not mean that we will be voting for the greenfilth/Labor swine next time – oh, no. The little people, the swinging voters, will be doing that en masse, simply because THEY were lied to.

    Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss…

  118. .

    Have you seen his poll numbers lately?

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Abbott has predominatly been talking the classically liberal talk –

    I reiterate:

    Have you seen his poll numbers lately?

    Raising taxes to pay for the previous mob’s stupidity is not “classically liberal”. Stop abusing the English language.

  119. tgs

    Kaboom
    #1298405, posted on May 9, 2014 at 9:29 am

    Exactly.

    All of these Liberal cheerleaders frothing at the mouth about how the ALP are worse just don’t get it.

  120. Sinclair Davidson

    Tax slaves develop Stockholm syndrome.

    Here is the thing: So many of you are telling me why the tax increase is a good idea or even not such a bad idea. Okay. But there are always “good” reasons to increase taxes. If we didn’t impose costs on those politicians who do raise taxes the taxpayer would be skinned alive.

  121. Notafan

    Lots of people took early retirement on the back of those 18% interest rates squealing as they went down and putting their hands out for the age pension as soon as they could.
    Just like multi millionaire self funded retirees who pay no tax are squealing about the cuts to company tax what will decrease their massive franking credit refunds.

  122. Joe Goodacre

    [Let’s stay on topic. Sinc]

  123. struth

    [Let’s stay on topic. Sinc]

  124. Joe Goodacre

    struth,

    It ALWAYS goes back to education.

    And families.

    Small families can’t sustain the grandparents in retirement and the children through schools – they end up voting for government assistance as well. Policies which hit families (i.e. increasing the cost of land) result in smaller families and with that a fertile grounds for left wing ideas.

  125. tgs

    Pretty sure this thread is about fiscal policy not sky wizards.

  126. Kaboom

    Furthermore, what really sticks in the craw about the Abbott government is the wasted opportunity.

    The incredible mandate of September 7th, to do good, not evil. To change things, for the betterment of generations of Australians.

    Nope – squandered totally. A complete failure to grasp the nettle of opportunity.

  127. Notafan

    I don’t want there to be a deficit levy, it’s a poor policy and will placate nobody especially as it implies higher income earners aren’t paying their fair share when they actually do.
    It’s the extreme Abbott hate I find unnerving, the sort of unhinged social media and public behaviour I expect from social alliance who are actively encouraged by abc and Fairfax to indulge in behaviour I find frightening.
    It only takes one demonstrator on questionable&anarchist to go that step too far.

  128. Rococo Liberal

    SInclair

    I agree with you that the deficit tax is a silly idea. But what you have to understand is that we on the right have nowhere else to go. Labor isn’t going to repeal this tax, and it will make things much worse in other ways.

    What I think I hate about this tax is the precedent it sets. After 40 years of the default position being that income tax rates can never be increased, it is sickening to think that any government can think that there is a justificationfor raiisng those rates, even temporarily.

    But what is the alternative?

    You can show the government that it is unpopular. But it isn’t unpopular for the deficit levy, but because of the cuts that the oiks think will make life harder for them.

  129. Rococo Liberal

    Let me put it bluntly, Sinclair.

    Are you going to vote for the ALP or another party whose preferences flow to the ALP because of the deficit levy?

  130. rebel with cause

    While I take the point of mareeS that it will probably be easier to make a good living under this government than some of the previous ones, that doesn’t mean I’ll cop a tax increase lying down.

    They could easily get the budget back in the black by cutting wasteful spending. Raising taxes shows a complete failure to make the hard decisions – the hard decisions they were elected to make.

  131. Grigory M

    De-rail alert. How the fuck did religion (Islam, etc) get into this thread. The discussion here has fuck-all to do with fucking religion. So, those who are trying to de-rail the discussion with it should either STFU or fuck off.

  132. .

    My comment here on the “Going through the books” thread has some hard hitting questions and strategic advice for the Liberals, RL.

    It concludes that we should preference the ALP and Greens dead last.

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/05/09/going-through-the-books-program-by-program/comment-page-1/#comment-1298370

  133. Old School Conservative

    Instead of ripping the Libs apart before the budget is brought down, let’s assume there will be an announcement of a national agenda underpinning the cuts (200 programs to be slashed, according to the Oz) and introduction of a levy. That agenda could be very Cat-friendly i.e. a focus on entrepreneurial effort to build business, employ people, and generate personal wealth.
    Here’s hoping something of that nature is announced during the budget.

  134. Joe Goodacre

    Sinc,

    Tax slaves develop Stockholm syndrome.

    It’s condescending to think that because people recognise the best of their available choices, they have some form of Stockholm syndrome.

    All of this is premised on the belief that there is some ultimate right for others to protect your property and liberty without them extracting a payment for those services in return. Very few people share that belief nowdays. The only way people’s opinion will change is through education and life experience that indicates that small government is better. Every time Labor is in power, government increases and cultural institutions are stacked. The ABC exploded during Labor times – how much harder do the culture wars become when the ABC has an even larger budget.

    So – by all means argue that increasing taxes is bad for the economy and spending cuts are good.

    When you’re making the same arguments as Labor and the Greens though (that Abbott is a liar and has broken a promise), at what point is that pointlessly shooting the only people who realistically have the desire to fix the mess of the last 7 years and to undo some of the stacking of our cultural institutions.

    If we didn’t impose costs on those politicians who do raise taxes the taxpayer would be skinned alive.

    Taxpayers are going to get skinned in the short term regardless – the moral equivalence of comparing the integrity of Abbott to Rudd/Gillard is damaging in the long term.

  135. Sinclair Davidson

    Are you going to vote for the ALP or another party whose preferences flow to the ALP because of the deficit levy?

    I live in a safe seat – how I vote in the Reps doesn’t matter. The Senate is different.

    Like your good self I tend to the view that ALP governments are always and everywhere a mistake. When Abbott is calling on his own supporters to gag and swallow it’s not enough to claim to be better than the alternative, he has to be a lot better than the alternative. Right now that just isn’t the case.

  136. Sinclair Davidson

    Taxpayers are going to get skinned in the short term regardless

    Precisely why it costs me nothing to tenderise the bastards.

  137. .

    It’s condescending to think that because people recognise the best of their available choices, they have some form of Stockholm syndrome.

    It is far MORE condescending to tell us that the Liberal party knows best.

  138. tgs

    When you’re making the same arguments as Labor and the Greens though (that Abbott is a liar and has broken a promise), at what point is that pointlessly shooting the only people who realistically have the desire to fix the mess of the last 7 years and to undo some of the stacking of our cultural institutions.

    Taxpayers are going to get skinned in the short term regardless – the moral equivalence of comparing the integrity of Abbott to Rudd/Gillard is damaging in the long term.

    I could not disagree more.

    I’m going to repost something I posted last week as it sums up how I feel about these pathetic arguments that we should accept bad policy and bad politics from the Coalition purely because it is slightly less bad policy and slightly less bad politics than we might get under the ALP

    Repost:

    It’s this sort of pathetic tribalism that will ensure our political options are forever between a douche and a turd sandwich (to borrow a phrase from South Park).

    Here’s a radical thought. It is possible to dislike and speak out against bad policies no matter where they originate from: Liberals, Nationals, ALP, Greens, etc. That is what I thought the Cat stood for. We need to tell our friends (whether they be Liberal or LDP, I prefer LDP but whatever floats your boat) how we feel about their policies JUST AS MUCH as our enemies. Perhaps even moreso.

    If you’re into lazy partisan hackery then go waste your time on Andrew Bolt’s blog. If we follow your logic to its ultimate conclusion we will have to forgive any stupid policy that comes from the Coalition because “at least it’s marginally less bad than ALP or Greens”.

    That is cowardly and not the kind of Australia I want to live in.

  139. I didn’t realise the Cat was full of people who have never borrowed money, or are unable to conceptualise borrowing money.
    I haven’t seen so many economic illiterates/innumerates since last time I knocked around with the punters in the public bar.

    … all the reasons why 17% interest rates are no big deal, likely followed soon by someone banging on about how “good” it is for a business/wage earner to be saddled blessed with 17% interest rates.

    FMD

  140. Infidel Tiger

    Are you telling me that the upper classes, those who pay all the tax and vote Liberal, are gong to vote for the ALP because of the deficit levy?

    The polls show no increased support for Labor. All the LNP vote is shifting to independents and minor parties.

    Good. Fuck the Liberals and Fuck Labor. BIRM.

  141. cohenite

    De-rail alert. How the fuck did religion (Islam, etc) get into this thread.

    Sorry Grigory, I was going to make a connection between Islamic economic policies and Green and by inference ALP economics but I’ll let it go since you seem to think religion has no place in an economics conversation which is really an economics ethics discussion.

  142. egg_

    “If the poll results are truly the feelings of the community then they haven’t come down from the high that Labour gave them and are looking for another fix.”

    How long is that excuse valid for?

  143. Gab

    We need to tell our friends (whether they be Liberal or LDP, I prefer LDP but whatever floats your boat) how we feel about their policies JUST AS MUCH as our enemies. Perhaps even moreso.

    Heavens, no. We must just sit meekly and accept whatever our “friends” do, you know, out of “loyalty”. Because don’t tell friends when they are heading down the wrong path. /sarc

  144. tgs

    all the reasons why 17% interest rates are no big deal

    If that’s directed at my post then maybe you should sharpen up your reading comprehension, champ.

  145. Perpetual Motion

    I don’t hate Abbott. I’m trying to train him as you would a small child.
    Bad behaviour must be punished. And if it continues, the child should be thrown onto the streets so you can make another one and try again.

  146. candy

    That’s about the polling for the last few months even before the budget.

  147. Senile Old Guy

    The polls show no increased support for Labor. All the LNP vote is shifting to independents and minor parties.

    Good. Fuck the Liberals and Fuck Labor. BIRM.

    Exactly. It’s a big “up yours” from the voters.

  148. MemoryVault

    That agenda could be very Cat-friendly i.e. a focus on entrepreneurial effort to build business, employ people, and generate personal wealth. Here’s hoping something of that nature is announced during the budget.

    If the forthcoming budget had anything even remotely resembling a redeeming feature, news of it would have been leaked over the past week. God knows the Fibs need the publicity.

    No, what you’ve seen is what you’re gonna get, plus, probably, some as yet unannounced nasties.
    Increased taxes and the obligatory “cuts to public service spending” assurances that never eventuate.
    Same old, same old.

    Remember Treasurer Phillip Lynch’s “Razor Gang” under Fraser?
    Look how well that worked out.
    Pollies of all flavours have now been making the same promise every election for 30 years.
    Tell me again just how much smaller the public service is as a result?

  149. egg_

    “The incredible mandate of September 7th, to do good, not evil. To change things, for the betterment of generations of Australians.

    Nope – squandered totally. A complete failure to grasp the nettle of opportunity.”

    I’m sure that’s how Joe Public sees it – they voted the other lot out for a reason.

  150. candy

    NDIS, NBN and Gonski have got to be funded into the future.

    NBN should never have happened, for one thing, though, a proper shambles. I almost think they could just sell that off now and be rid of it, and not take much of a political hit for it.

  151. Perpetual Motion

    at what point is that pointlessly shooting the only people who realistically have the desire to fix the mess of the last 7 years and to undo some of the stacking of our cultural institutions.

    I haven’t yet seen any such desire from the Libs. We still have NDIS and Gonski coming. Abbott is going to add PPL, and appointed Stout-Destroyer to a meaningless, but very well-paid position.

  152. Joe Goodacre

    Sinc,

    Precisely why it costs me nothing to tenderise the bastards.

    I should have been more specific – taxpayers are rooted in the short term anyway because whether the debt is paid for through taxation or inflation, it is going to be paid regardless. The only variable in the equation is what spending and government intereference in our lives comes next.

    I’m comfortable that the burden in the long term will be lower under a Liberal government. I’m comfortable that there is no comparison between Abbott’s example (his long term committments to volunteer organisations, his respect of the military and our cultural inheritance and his example of an active lifestyle with a large family in a comitted and stable relationship) and the meglomania of Rudd and Gillard. No one is saying be a parrot for every idea – just that we keep some perspective on the options available. In my view I think Bolt is walking that line well (no one could argue that he agrees with the tax), but there’s no petty vindictiveness out of touch with political reality (‘day 11 of a broken promise’ etc) either.

  153. Joe Goodacre

    ‘derail alert’

    It seems to me that there’s a big connection between a decline in Christianity and an increase in big government and the idea that the rich can be soaked to pay for the guilt that’s a legacy of being a non-Christian in a society based upon Christian morality.

    That’s why I don’t think that there is much animosity in the general public for tax increases on ‘the wealthy’ and the poll flip represents instead a rejection of the language of the crusade for spending cuts since the Liberals didn’t campaign on that platform.

  154. rebel with cause

    Would Abbott and Hockey be so keen to beat up on their base if we had voluntary voting? I wouldn’t think so. Another good reason to ditch compulsory voting.

  155. Sinclair Davidson

    I’m comfortable that there is no comparison between Abbott’s example (his long term committments to volunteer organisations, his respect of the military and our cultural inheritance and his example of an active lifestyle with a large family in a comitted and stable relationship) and the meglomania of Rudd and Gillard.

    Completely agree.

    No one is saying be a parrot for every idea – just that we keep some perspective on the options available.

    In principle agreement too.

    I’m comfortable that the burden in the long term will be lower under a Liberal government.

    I’m not so sure on this point. Maybe with a different liberal government that could be true.

  156. Sinclair Davidson

    ps. my vindictiveness is never petty.

  157. Tom

    NDIS, NBN and Gonski have got to be funded into the future.

    No. They don’t.

    Stop parroting your lefty friends, Candy.

  158. Rabz

    Why this all mania about paying off the debt anyway?

    Those whoremongering, criminal, incompetent labor dunderheads will eventually get voted back in and run up even more fucking debt.

    In the meantime, the Liberal base gets clobbered to try and pay it off.

    Here’s a hint you stupid, gliberal bastards – balanced budget legislation (at the very least), if you’re going to fuck taxpayers over to pay off labor’s debt.

    Otherwise, quarantine it and reduce the ALPBC’s funding by a significant set amount to pay the annual interest bill.

    Oh, wait – the interest bill on the debt is about $12 billion pa and the ALPBC ‘only’ gets $1.2 billion pa.

    Mantra Time™. 😡

  159. I’m sure that’s how Joe Public sees it – they voted the other lot out for a reason.

    The major reason was that they were naive enough to swallow the Coalition’s lies.
    Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
    The phrase “hoist to his own petard” comes to mind.
    Settling down with popcorn and drinks…………….

  160. candy

    ps. my vindictiveness is never petty.

    obviously! 🙂

  161. Joe Goodacre

    rebel with cause,

    Would Abbott and Hockey be so keen to beat up on their base if we had voluntary voting? I wouldn’t think so. Another good reason to ditch compulsory voting.

    Interesting suggestion – how do you reconicle that with the US experience though (voluntary voting and Republicans being Democrat lites?)

  162. Tom

    balanced budget legislation (at the very least)

    Yes!!!

    Introduce it as a bill to be voted on at least once every six months so that all the names and speeches of those opposing it can be incorporated in the next election campaign.

    Politics 101.

  163. candy

    No. They don’t.

    Yes, they do, Tom. And if you believe toppling Mr Abbott and putting in Malcolm Turnbull (or someone else) it would be different – it wouldn’t. Reversing NDIS and Gonski would be sure fire way back to GreenLabor getting back in in the next election.

  164. .

    Joe Goodacre
    #1298490, posted on May 9, 2014 at 10:37 am
    ‘derail alert’

    It seems to me that there’s a big connection between a decline in Christianity and an increase in big government and the idea that the rich can be soaked to pay for the guilt that’s a legacy of being a non-Christian in a society based upon Christian morality.

    Rudd was a Christian socialist. Please stop talking smack.

  165. .

    Reversing NDIS and Gonski would be sure fire way back to GreenLabor getting back in in the next election.

    Then you are not serious about tax cuts, want taxes to go up and want to implement the Green-ALP agenda simply with a different person in the lodge.

    What is the point? Tribalism.

  166. egg_

    “This is the sort of arrogant behaviour that got Turnbull rolled.”

    Turnbull may as well be Treasurer (Hockey only deserves to be a junior Minister).

  167. Infidel Tiger

    If you believe in the power of creative destruction, the Liberal Party must be destroyed.

  168. egg_

    “If you believe in the power of creative destruction, the Liberal Party must be destroyed.”

    A new age of the two-party system: Labor and Labor-lite Party animals of the political class.

  169. Aristogeiton

    1735099
    #1298507, posted on May 9, 2014 at 10:48 am
    […]
    The phrase “hoist to his own petard” comes to mind.

    This illiterate fuck is educating children, and we are all forced to pay for it.

  170. Joe Goodacre


    I’m comfortable that the burden in the long term will be lower under a Liberal government.

    I’m not so sure on this point. Maybe with a different liberal government that could be true.

    Maybe – to get to that outcome though there has to be internal conflict within Liberal – I’m not sure that worked out well for Labor.

    Regarding petty – maybe – will there be a ‘day 12 of a broken promise’?

  171. Fleeced

    If we are to have this stupid debt levy, I hope it’s at least structured in such a way that it’s automatically incurred in future when ALP runs a deficit… at least then there might be some future political cost in running a deficit.

    Just looking for a silver lining here…

  172. Aristogeiton

    I personally think it is ridiculous that the only quintile that is paying any net tax is being soaked again.

    However, the mental illness that is leftism has spread far and wide. People really believe that the ‘rich’ (PAYG earners?) pay little or no tax. They see no downside to government regulation. They believe that saving money is a bad thing as it is money sacrificed from ‘the economy’. These delusions are widely held.

    One thing that this tax has done is submerge discussion of the savings measures which the Government propose; what we’re not hearing is bloviating about Abbott’s ‘attack on working families’. Abbott made too many promises before coming to office. Policies like the NDIS and his PPL scheme are just ruinous. We knew when we voted for him, and perhaps many of you, like me, hoped he would renege on these commitments. It seems to me to be hypocritical to complain about a ‘broken promise’ when I for one hoped he would break many of the ones the Coalition made. What I want for the Government to do is cut recurrent expenditure. If this is the way that it is going to be achieved, politically, then I am happy to let it play out and see what progress can be made.

  173. A Lurker

    The polls show no increased support for Labor. All the LNP vote is shifting to independents and minor parties.

    Good. Fuck the Liberals and Fuck Labor. BIRM.

    In other words a vote for the Greens (which effectively means a vote for Labor), Independents (who in the past have shown that they can be bought and controlled by Labor; e.g. Windsor, Oakeshott, or at the very least, gift Labor their preferences), and other minor parties – one bankrolled by a Billionaire out to influence Government in order to improve his business interests or under control by that same Billionaire in order to achieve the same result, plus minor somewhat sane parties like the LDP, DLP, FF who as a voting bloc may in time become viable alternatives but won’t be able to help Australia in the short term – i.e. during the rest of this decade and a good way into the next.

    Baby. Bathwater.

  174. Joe Goodacre

    Dot,

    I don’t think Rudd was Christian.

  175. Aristogeiton

    Joe Goodacre
    #1298568, posted on May 9, 2014 at 11:33 am
    Dot,

    I don’t think Rudd was Christian.

    What?

  176. Joe Goodacre

    A Lurker,
    In other words a vote for the Greens (which effectively means a vote for Labor), Independents (who in the past have shown that they can be bought and controlled by Labor; e.g. Windsor, Oakeshott, or at the very least, gift Labor their preferences), and other minor parties – one bankrolled by a

    I remember being in a LDP meeting where strategy was proposed for the LDP to be allying with the Greens against the Liberals on some issues at council – I think it might have been Mt Kurangai.

  177. Joe Goodacre

    Was my first and last meeting.

  178. Aristogeiton

    tgs
    #1298577, posted on May 9, 2014 at 11:40 am
    I don’t think Rudd was Christian.

    He sure was no true Scotsman, that’s for sure!

    Nice.

  179. Fleeced

    I don’t think Rudd was Christian.

    Can’t say that bothers me – those that are tend to think God put them there instead of the voters – but the whole fake religious stuff politicians of all stripes seem to pull absolutely sickens me.

    Alas, the first “out and proud” atheist we had as PM was Gillard. She still acted like she was doing us all a great noble public service though – like most pollies who pretend they’re performing some great charity. This is part of the problem – all politicians act this way. Granted, some of them may actually believe it, though I’m not sure if that makes them better or worse.

  180. egg_

    plus minor somewhat sane parties like the LDP, DLP, FF who as a voting bloc may in time become viable alternatives but won’t be able to help Australia in the short term – i.e. during the rest of this decade and a good way into the next.

    Therein lies the problem – no one’s “keeping the bastards honest”.

  181. It seems to me to be hypocritical to complain about a ‘broken promise’ when I for one hoped he would break many of the ones the Coalition made.

    Revealing.
    You’ll vote for a liar, complicit in the lie, and believe that’s OK.

  182. Aristogeiton

    1735099
    #1298584, posted on May 9, 2014 at 11:45 am
    It seems to me to be hypocritical to complain about a ‘broken promise’ when I for one hoped he would break many of the ones the Coalition made.

    Revealing.
    You’ll vote for a liar, complicit in the lie, and believe that’s OK.

    Fuck you, dipshit. Unlike Labor Kool-Aid guzzlers like yourself, my political views are not coterminous with the policies of any particular party.

  183. Grigory M

    NBN should never have happened, for one thing, though, a proper shambles. I almost think they could just sell that off now and be rid of it, and not take much of a political hit for it.

    Privatise it as competition for Telstra maybe, Candy? But then they would probably be one of the bidders if the NBN was to be sold.

  184. .

    The phrase “hoist to his own petard” comes to mind.

    In an alternate universe, perhaps that is what is said.

    This prick has the gall to chip other people on grammar!

  185. Aristogeiton

    .
    #1298591, posted on May 9, 2014 at 11:48 am
    The phrase “hoist to his own petard” comes to mind.

    In an alternate universe, perhaps that is what is said.

    This prick has the gall to chip other people on grammar!

    I would like to see Numbers sodomised with his own petard.

  186. .

    I remember being in a LDP meeting where strategy was proposed for the LDP to be allying with the Greens against the Liberals on some issues at council – I think it might have been Mt Kurangai.

    …but now you’re whinging about us being discontent with Abbott actually taxing the rich to pay for the promises of the ALP and Greens?

    Righto. How principled of you. Cough cough.

  187. Joe Goodacre

    Numbers,

    Do you trust who you voted for?

    It seems to me that trust is a pretty useless commodity in politics. I trust people that I know well enough for that trust to be reasonably based. My wife, family and a few close friends fit into that category. Most people I suspect don’t know their politicians well enough to separate what the politician says from what they honestly believe and how their preferences will play out when they invariably have to make tradeoffs.

    If I take it for granted that politicians lie – what’s wrong in recognising the hypocrisy of people claiming that is wrong for Abbott not to break a promise, when their next words advocate for other promises he made to be broken. What’s wrong with hoping that the promises broken are the ones I don’t want enforced?

  188. Joe Goodacre

    Dot,

    …but now you’re whinging about us being discontent with Abbott actually taxing the rich to pay for the promises of the ALP and Greens?

    No, I recognised that there was no such thing as pure ideology – compromises, trade offs and alliances are made by everyone. The Liberals started looking pretty good on that basis.

    The people who voted for the LDP in the senate for NSW had no way of knowing that he would be elected. They also had no idea what his flow of preferences were either. Had the LDP not gotten lucky/benefited from people’s mistakes some people on here could have actually been throwing a vote behind a lefty in the senate.

  189. stackja

    ALP wants more of this. Keep up the good work.

  190. Fleeced

    Joe, what is the point of that silly Sex Party conspiracy story? Are you seriously suggesting LDP deliberately messed up their Victorian lodgement? For what purpose? What gain do you imagine they would achive from such an act? You seem rather ignorant about the entire political process.

  191. Fleeced

    I hope stackja’s where’s kneepads.

  192. Joe Goodacre

    Fleeced,

    My point is that had they stuck by their preference deals (regardless of why they got it wrong – mistake or otherwise), people voting for the LDP almost put a sex party candidate into the Victorian senate.

    So like a good lefty, people can rage about excellent intentions, and how we shouldn’t support the promise breaking Abbott – ‘bring on real change to the Liberals’. Anyone who cares about outcomes though would recognise it’s not as simple as that and we can end up in an even worse situation if those practicalities aren’t taken into account. I agree with more of the LDP’s platform than the Liberals yet consciously decided not to vote for the LDP in the senate since you weren’t guaranteed to know who you would actually be voting for after preferences were taken into account.

  193. stackja

    Vote for TA or you voting for the ALP.

  194. Aussiepundit

    What’s wrong with hoping that the promises broken are the ones I don’t want enforced?

    There’s a difference between wishing he hadn’t made the promise and hoping he breaks it.
    While you might like the direct outcomes of a particular promise-breaking there are no doubt other, indirect outcomes, that are less desirable.

    also, Joe Goodacre, from earlier this morning:

    Abott’s was ‘not Labor + we’ll stop the boats, remove the carbon tax, bring in PPL and (small print) not touch Gonski, ABC, SBS, Medicare, pensions, NDIS or raise taxes. For a mandate to exist, doesn’t someone have to campaign on the issue?

    You’re right about the mandate to not increase taxes. but as for the other stuff…

    For four years, Abbott campaigned as a low-tax, low-debt, low-spend fire breathing hard right liberal conservative. Then at the 11th hour he went mushy and started making plans like a wet big-government progressive.

    I think it was reasonable for people to expect that his prime ministership would be thematically more in line with his long term positioning, instead of sticking like glue to a bunch of ridiculous campaign-fever qanda style thought bubbles.

    Also, when he was a hard right small government guy he was polling fine. There was no need to reposition himself to the moderate wet that he seems to have become.

  195. tgs

    I agree with more of the LDP’s platform than the Liberals yet consciously decided not to vote for the LDP in the senate since you weren’t guaranteed to know who you would actually be voting for after preferences were taken into account.

    You understand how to vote below the line, yes?

    The mind… it boggles.

  196. egg_

    Vote for TA or you voting for the ALP.

    That’s the message to Joe Public.

  197. tgs

    How cute.

    Steve Kates has made a thread for the partisan hacks and tribalist cowards to pat themselves on the back about how much shafting they are prepared to take for their Glorious Leader.

    Maybe now they’ll stop crapping in this one, though I’m not holding my breath.

  198. Joe Goodacre

    tgs,

    You understand how to vote below the line, yes?

    The mind… it boggles that you can confidently say your order of preferences on the 92 candidates and their personalities and policies that appeared below the line electing the senate from NSW reps in the Federal election Ok – no holes in that.

  199. If I take it for granted that politicians lie

    Well there you go – you’ve just dismissed the democratic process.
    At age 66 I’m still naive enough to believe that people mean what they say.
    My word is my bond, and I always keep my promises.
    I expect and assume the same of others.

  200. stackja

    tgs
    #1298667, posted on May 9, 2014 at 12:32 pm
    How cute.
    Steve Kates has made a thread for the partisan hacks and tribalist cowards to pat themselves on the back about how much shafting they are prepared to take for their Glorious Leader.
    Maybe now they’ll stop crapping in this one, though I’m not holding my breath.

    Crap! Exhale!

  201. MemoryVault

    I’m still naive enough to believe that people mean what they say.

    Fair enough.
    But I thought we were discussing politicians.

  202. cohenite

    At age 66 I’m still naive enough to believe that people mean what they say.
    My word is my bond, and I always keep my promises.

    Coterminous, to paraphrase Aristogeiton , bullshit.

  203. Joe Goodacre

    Numbers,

    None of the good people I know personally aspire to be politicians.

    I’m surely not alone in failing to trust people who want power over other’s lives – for whatever reason.

    At age 66 I’m still naive enough to believe that people mean what they say.

    I agree that is naive.

    My word is my bond, and I always keep my promises.

    An admirable characteristic.

    I expect and assume the same of others.

    I judge people who don’t keep their promises, but don’t expect that they always will.

    What someone says seems to me to be less important than what they do.

  204. Infidel Tiger

    The people who voted for the LDP in the senate for NSW had no way of knowing that he would be elected.

    You mean his victory wasn’t guaranteed? Fuck me. How democratic.

    I know you were abused as a child so I’ll forgive you this idiocy.

  205. Toiling Mass

    Talking about the Success Levy Tax ‘sharing the pain’ is doing Australians no favour because it is reinforcing the destructive ‘class warfare’ thinking.

    Abbott and Hockey should instead ditch the stupid pointless thing and and explain to the voters who still don’t get it that excess government spending impoverishes them and that a thriving private sector is in their own best interest. And that they can secure a far better life for themselves through their own efforts than they could ever achieve through government handouts.

  206. will

    However, the mental illness that is leftism has spread far and wide. People really believe that the ‘rich’ (PAYG earners?) pay little or no tax. They see no downside to government regulation. They believe that saving money is a bad thing as it is money sacrificed from ‘the economy’. These delusions are widely held.

    This is the same mental illness that deludes people into thinking that raising taxes (on other people natch) has no impact on their wealth and prosperity. The same mental illness that infest South American (and increasingly North America) and the trolls on this blog.

  207. Grigory M

    So – Galaxy Poll 2 Party Preferred = LNP 48% (down 5.5%): Liebor 52% (up 5.5%). And that’s after only 2 apparent broken promises so far (Debt Levy Tax and Fuel Excise Tax). The Government now seems likely to tank much more dramatically in the polls after its Budget is delivered on Tuesday, especially if the mooted GP visit co-payment and any change to the Age Pension assets test are included. Uncharted waters after that – maybe Supply blocked in the new Senate, maybe fresh elections later in the year.

  208. .

    No, I recognised that there was no such thing as pure ideology – compromises, trade offs and alliances are made by everyone. The Liberals started looking pretty good on that basis.

    As what? Being pragmatic or being whores for votes?

    The people who voted for the LDP in the senate for NSW had no way of knowing that he would be elected.

    No – but we knew he’d be elected with over 3% – hence he ended up being elected #5 with over 9% of the vote.

    I agree with more of the LDP’s platform than the Liberals yet consciously decided not to vote for the LDP in the senate since you weren’t guaranteed to know who you would actually be voting for after preferences were taken into account.

    …and you knew with the Liberals? …and you didn’t vote below the line? …and you never questioned why the Liberals refuse to give the LDP favourable treatment?

    My point is that had they stuck by their preference deals (regardless of why they got it wrong – mistake or otherwise), people voting for the LDP almost put a sex party candidate into the Victorian senate.

    Shock horror. Libertarian party preferences get wet leftist libertines elected over Communists (Greens) or socially conservative socialists (Liberals).

    The Liberals go all in with the Greens to block FF, LDP and Tea Party Aus. and you don’t make a noise.

  209. .

    Grigory – it is a disgrace that the proposed excise tax hike is barely mentioned.

    I feel like a broken record noting that crap policies like Direct Action are wholly unjustified and the abolition of such bilge could see taxes remain the same or be cut.

  210. Fleeced

    I ask myself whether I could forgive Abbott if he cuts spending by enough… but if he cut spending by that amount, why would he need to raise taxes?

    I’m hoping he backs down before budget night, but he’s lost credibility either way. The fuel levy at least has to be a fake-out, surely?

  211. Combine_Dave

    I ask myself whether I could forgive Abbott if he cuts spending by enough…

    I asked Tony Abbott if we could forgive him his broken promises, but he said no.

  212. Fleeced

    I asked Tony Abbott if he could keep his promises and he said no 🙁

  213. egg_

    Grigory M
    #1298723, posted on May 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Precisely, it’s the electorate’s perception that matters and Abbott’s lost/never had touch with Joe Public and is on a slippery slope of no return* exactly as you’ve described, as Fisky and I have been banging on about and the rustedons are blissfully unaware/in denial.

    *Free stuff offered in 2016 (more from the ALP play book)?

  214. Combine_Dave

    I asked Tony Abbott if he could keep his promises and he said no

    Sad but true. And his Government is still better than the ALP.

  215. Helen

    ps. my vindictiveness is never pettypretty. FIFY Sinc 🙂

  216. Helen

    BTW talking about 17% interest rates and associated inflation raising of parameters so effective rate there fore much lower assumes commodity producer prices rise in line with inflation, too.

    Cattle prices did not. Other inputs did.

  217. Helen

    Re poll. I guess that rules out DD then.

  218. Cattle prices did not. Other inputs did.

    Similar experience to wage earners buying a home. People were bankrupted everywhere.
    JC & some of those others have obviously never walked the walk.

  219. brc

    Grigory – it is a disgrace that the proposed excise tax hike is barely mentioned.

    I feel like a broken record noting that crap policies like Direct Action are wholly unjustified and the abolition of such bilge could see taxes remain the same or be cut.

    Broken records have to be played to get the full effect.

    Who loves the direct action policy? Nobody, that’s who. Who likes keeping more of their income? Everybody, that’s who. Income tax increases to justify having a neat answer for q&a. Madness.

  220. john constantine

    direct action in my local area looks like funding some kids with limited options to get out in the clean air, puddle around in some rivers, clean stuff up and tackle some crappy weeds. the local abc abused the local member because it will have s.f.a. effect on the temperature of the planet, but i will look at submitting a project for ’em. the kids gotta do something. might as well skill up a bit as go study leftism.

    better direct action than windmills.

    carbon in soils?. yeah, million variables, so we guess an estimate of what the possible outcome may be within a range of lots.—but you do get more productive soils, more production, more economic activity, more tax…….gotta be better than merchant bankers and scammers rigging rorts to milk the taxpayer.

  221. jupes

    the local abc abused the local member because it will have s.f.a. effect on the temperature of the planet,

    Really, they did that?

    They never abused Labor or the Greens about the ‘carbon’ tax, which of course has precisely zero effect on the temperature.

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