Open Forum: August 9, 2014

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1,452 Responses to Open Forum: August 9, 2014

  1. Oh come on

    Hey, where’s oldsalt? Hahahaha

  2. There is no excuse for killing children, whether it’s the result of insurgents beheading them, or 155mm howitzers blowing them to pieces.

    Wow. So the Brits and Americans that killed women and children incidentally using naval artillery in preparation for D-Day were equivalent to ISIS who deliberately rape, kill and behead unarmed men, women and children. Just wow.

  3. Andrew

    I’m confessing my ignorance. I was under the impression that B.C. and A.D. were no longer used. Happy to be corrected.

    Not used by some. When I’m talking to my Muslim friends or clients about a date in their calendar, I refer to the year as AH. Because it’s an Islamic calendar – they invented it. When talking to my Thai friends about dates listed as “BE” I do them the courtesy of NOT referring to it as “AD displaced 543 years” – it’s the Buddhist Era calendar. And I refer to Songkran as Songkran, not April Fools Day.

    Likewise, while we use the Gregorian calendar (which I assume will be for my life, assuming we don’t have to change to AH for some reason), it appears valid to refer to “AD” and “BC.”

    Conversely, I’m NOT an adherent to the term “Christian name” and consider it a quite inappropriate usage, implying that Christians invented names (which they didn’t). “First name” doesn’t work for Chinese, and “Family name” doesn’t work well for many cultures either. “Surname & given name” appears sufficiently general (leaving the option of a null entry for those Javanese with only a given name).

  4. Demosthenes

    Indeed – yet can you demonstrate criminal intent to kill children?

    Is shooting the hostage criminal intent?

  5. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    What your pet stalinist, racist and coward runs away from is the issue of moral responsibility.

    Fact: children are being killed in a war, in Gaza that is a war started by a terrorist organisation whose plans (via a tunnel system aimed at Israel) was transparently to kill children, and whose indiscriminate bombardments also kill children.

    Where children are killed by teh IDF in the war Hamas started, the organisation which bears moral responsibility for each death is the one deliberately exposing them to fire, using them as human shields, preventing them from fleeing declared strike areas, and refusing to construct or provide shelters for them.

    If it can be demonstrated that the IDF is doing everything which is within its power to be discriminate, to minimise civilian casualties, and to follow the laws of war then 100% of the moral responsibility for the deaths lies with Hamas.

  6. Indeed – yet can you demonstrate criminal intent to kill children?

    Sinc, with respect, that’s naive in the extreme.
    If you’re commanding an artillery strike on a built up area where you know there could be children sheltering, then by my definition, that’s criminal.
    The soldier pulling the lanyard may not be a criminal, but the politician ordering the offensive sure as hell is.

  7. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    The Moral Coward’s Stance:

    If you’re commanding an artillery strike on a built up area where you know there could be children sheltering, then by my definition, that’s criminal.
    The soldier pulling the lanyard may not be a criminal, but the politician ordering the offensive sure as hell is.

    Yeah, you are a far left racist who hates Jews.

    Tell us something we do not know.

  8. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    DB:

    Wow. So the Brits and Americans that killed women and children incidentally using naval artillery in preparation for D-Day were equivalent to ISIS who deliberately rape, kill and behead unarmed men, women and children. Just wow.

    You will find this cowardly moral stance common on the left.

    Amazing how they STFU when one points out both the ignorance and immorality of their stance, and then ask about their MORAL view of the weeks of rape and slaughter aimed by deliberate Soviet government policy decision at the German civil population in the four months before and one month after the Fall of Berlin.

  9. If it can be demonstrated that the IDF is doing everything which is within its power to be discriminate, to minimise civilian casualties, and to follow the laws of war then 100% of the moral responsibility for the deaths lies with Hamas.

    Indeed – go ahead………….

  10. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Damn, how did that slip out – I hadn’t finished yet …

    I, Mick Gold Coast QLD, give Notice of Intention to Claim First Sighting Today of:

    “Vietnam”

    announced at midday-ish by Sad Sack of multi-culti Toowoomba (but not really multi-culti as our host Sinclair has proven this morning, unopposed) in defence of Brave Sir Fellow Warrior Carlton of ShakeMyHead (retd) … who served “in the (giggle, giggle) … in the field”. That’s what he wrote, fair dinkum!

  11. Conversely, I’m NOT an adherent to the term “Christian name” and consider it a quite inappropriate usage, implying that Christians invented names (which they didn’t).

    Nothing of the sort is implied at all.

  12. Andrew

    Why is Sinclair violating the Prime Directive by trashing this thread with troll interaction?

  13. Mater

    If you’re commanding an artillery strike on a built up area where you know there could be children sheltering, then by my definition, that’s criminal.

    Spoken like a true armchair General.

  14. MartinG

    1735099
    #1410869, posted on August 10, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    An insight into Carlton from a 1978 interview he gave about his time in Vietnam, from the AWM archive.

    The fraudulent arshole spent all his time staying in hotels, drinking gin and tonic at the expence of the tax payer.

  15. egg_

    “Vietnam”

    Has to be a “Godwin’s” of its own, no?

  16. MartinG

    1735099
    #1410869, posted on August 10, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    An insight into Carlton from a 1978 interview he gave about his time in Vietnam, from the AWM archive.

    The fraudulent arshole spent all his time staying at hotels and drinking gin and tonic at the expense of the tax payer.

  17. YT

    I thought we declared V[name redacted]m, the war that shall not be named?

  18. notafan

    I admire the IDF, who else has jeopardized their success by dropping leaflets making telephone calls and sending warning shots to get civilians out of harm’s way?
    They have also cancelled operations when they deem the risk to civilians too high.
    Their purpose?
    To stop the indicriminate firing of rockets at their civilians and prevent incursions by terrorists intend on murdering their civilians; in particular young children of kindergarten age.
    A just war if ever there was one.

  19. If you’re commanding an artillery strike on a built up area where you know there could be children sheltering, then by my definition, that’s criminal.

    No it isn’t if you have an active missile battery stationed therein. Never has been criminal. In fact, the criminality resides precisely with whoever stationed the missile battery in that built-up area near children sheltering.

    You will find this cowardly moral stance common on the left.

    Amazing how they STFU when one points out both the ignorance and immorality of their stance, and then ask about their MORAL view of the weeks of rape and slaughter aimed by deliberate Soviet government policy decision at the German civil population in the four months before and one month after the Fall of Berlin.

    Firstly, what cowardly moral stance? Secondly, where the hell have I defended what was visited on the German civilian population by the Soviets or the Allies? Given I’ve many times criticized the bombings of Hamburg and Dresden you might in future limit your mouthing-off to areas upon which you have some clue, limited as that is.

  20. MartinG

    Hmm, I wonder why I keep getting double posts.

  21. Oh come on

    In their war of conquest, the extreme wahhabists on the march in Iraq are murdering indiscriminately (including beheading children), forcing conversions to their psychotic religion, slaughtering husbands and then raping and selling their widows into slavery. It would be immorality of the highest order NOT to force these monsters to desist from their horrendous crimes – by killing every single one of them, if that’s what it takes.

    If Numbnuts can’t acknowledge this, then he is morally (and mentally) bankrupt.

  22. hzhousewife

    funding of mosque construction in smaller towns with small islamic populations, who supplies the money?.

    In our town, they are raising the money themselves. Yesterday the local Islamic Society was having an end of Eid event at the local community centre, inviting us all to attend, in particular to meet their women and see that they are just as happy as everybody, not mistreated. They hoped to have 200 to 300 attend. Will watch to see if the local paper reports on the afternoon during the next week.
    The local Muslims I have met hold jobs, they are mostly from the former Yugoslavia, but I also know a young Syrian family.Three brothers I know pool money a lot to buy cars and houses and repatriate money to relatives in a very disciplined way, and one now owns a business. Getting a foothold the same way the Italian families did it in the fifties.

  23. Oh come on

    Dover, I think MK was referring to Numbers’s moral cowardice, not yours.

  24. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Stalins butt-boy &etc:

    Indeed – go ahead………….

    Gotcha!

    You just outed your underlying assumption that the IDF is not doing this – despite massive and publicised evidence that they are.

    Thanks for more proof – if it was ever needed – that what’s driving you is anti-semitism.

  25. Nic

    It’s ok, no kids died in the war that starts with a V

  26. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    DB:

    Firstly, what cowardly moral stance? Secondly, where the hell have I defended what was visited on the German civilian population by the Soviets or the Allies? Given I’ve many times criticized the bombings of Hamburg and Dresden you might in future limit your mouthing-off to areas upon which you have some clue, limited as that is.

    Dover – my sincerest apologies for not making this clear! Entirely my fault. I was not referring to you at all in any way, I was referring to the moral cowardice of Numbers and of most of the left, and using supporting your statement as a stick to clobebr them with.

    Again, my apologies to you for being so unclear and ambiguous.

  27. whyisitso

    The Allies committed a shocking war crime against the Germans in 1944 by deceiving them about the planned location of D-Day. I recall seeing a movie starring Clifton Webb in the fifties called ‘The Man Who never Was”. Hopefully a number of Allied war criminals were prosecuted and hanged because of that, as it caused the deaths of many innocent Germans.

  28. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Advance warning for Armadildo – comment coming up from Lizzie. Not suitable for his dullard mind.

    I like my Christian name. Received it at Christian Baptism into the Anglican Church, using the Book of Common Prayer. I am an Apostate now, but strangely they’ve never caught up with me to behead me. Something to do with civilization, I guess.

    For Islam, the means always justifies the end, which is submission and domination by the sword. In their ideologies, I do not think they regard the lives of children as precious in the way that we do. But being human and not always under strict ideological sway, the parents of dead Islamic children still weep the tears of that greatest sorrow. Unless, and I shudder at the moral horror of it, they are complicit in certain child deaths for the greater good of their propaganda cause. The IDF, as pointed out by several above, make all efforts to defend themselves without inflicting civilian damage, in spite of the obvious use by Hamas of civilians, including children, as human shields.

  29. Dover – my sincerest apologies for not making this clear! Entirely my fault.

    Mk, no, no, the fault is all mine. I thought you were numbers there. So, double, triple apologies. It is getting rather late here so I have some excuse.

  30. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Or is that the end justifies the means? Depends how you define things, really.

  31. BTW, that post of yours now makes sense, Mk, given it was you who wrote it.

  32. You just outed your underlying assumption that the IDF is not doing this – despite massive and publicised evidence that they are.

    Show me this massive and publicised evidence.
    From independent sources, that is.

    Thanks for more proof – if it was ever needed – that what’s driving you is anti-semitism.

    That’s strange. I have always believed that it was the state of Israel firing artillery into Gaza.
    Now you imply that it’s the Jewish religion.
    You learn something every day – or not.

  33. WIIS, the only innocents killed in Normandy were French.

  34. Leigh Lowe

    So, like some others, Carlton lied about his V******* War experience too?

  35. I thought you were numbers there.

    Typical.
    Can’t tell his arse from his elbow.

  36. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From MartinG at 12:52 pm:

    ” “An insight into Carlton from a 1978 interview he gave about his time in Vietnam, from the AWM archive.”

    The fraudulent arshole spent all his time staying at hotels and drinking gin and tonic at the expense of the tax payer.”

    He was an ABC public servant, aged about 20 so he knew about as much of Asia as any of us – not much at all – and he was afflicted by the baby soft muscles learned at one of the North Shore sooky schools (Barker I think, or Cox Knowledge) who we ignored because there was no contest, no honour to be had in blue-ing with ’em.

    I suggest the Saigon gin palaces is about as far as he got and any further recollection is largely fantasy. I don’t remember his remarkable presence on TV as an Australian Frances FitzGerald, or at all. He certainly wasn’t there for very long at all.

    Butch’s renowned bravery came later in life, when he waited until radio show competitor Stan Zemanek was attending his own funeral before courageously giving him a bollocking. That’s the type of fellow noble warrior Sad Sack is eulogising today.

  37. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Numbers:

    Show me this massive and publicised evidence.

    Go read The Jerusalem Post. Use this thing called google and search terms like ‘leaflet drop’ and ‘knock on roof’. Look at the videos of presicion strikes. Listen to the audio of the conversations to make sure targets are clear of civilians.

    Do your own research you racist scum.

    You have consistently supported the terrorist’s views here, storm-front-boy.

    Nice.

  38. Typical.
    Can’t tell his arse from his elbow.

    You’re the ass, he’s the elbow.

  39. C.L.

    What you have to remember is that defending people from violence is not violence.

    When the Australian left supported Adolf Hitler during WWII (and worked to kill Diggers), they used all of the pacifist and ‘Christian’-manipulating arguments, including equivalency tricks.

    Nothing new.

  40. egg_

    Can’t tell his arse from his elbow Numbzzz…?

  41. Leigh Lowe

    Father O’Callaghan gave a great sermon at St Michael’s in Bungaree this morning.
    It was effectively a eulogy for Butch Carlton’s journalistic career, tragically cut short by the Jews.
    Father O’Callaghan said that Butch was indeed doing the work of God by abusing the filthy Jews and we should all go forth and do the same.
    “Don’t forget” said Father O’Callaghan,”that the Jews are the c***ts who crucified our Lord and Saviour. Give to them. Especially the little Jews on buses. Amen”

  42. Oh come on

    Don’t forget Numbnuts was a cheerleader for Hanoi before he was called up to fight the communists.

  43. notafan

    It is quite amazing, given the population densities in Gaza how low the casualty rate actually is. Someone yesterday linked to a BBC article warning that the deaths in Gaza were disproportionately adult males and that some scepticism was warranted.
    Hamas claimed only 50 Hamas deaths in operation Protective Edge and much later admitted to 600 to 700 fatalities.
    Why do people assume Israel lies and Hamas does not, when historically we know that Hamas has lied about it’s casualities, Hamas has breached ceasefires, Hamas has placed rocket launching sites in civilian areas and Hamas had kidnapped and murdered three Israeli boys?

  44. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The Allies committed a shocking war crime against the Germans in 1944 by deceiving them about the planned location of D-Day.

    Sorry, you are a year out and an invasion away. The “Man Who Never Was” was to mislead the Germans that Operation Husky, the invasion of Sicily, in 1943, would be launched through Corsica or Sardinia.

  45. Can’t tell his arse from his elbow Numbzzz…?

    Don’t you dare soil my arse with his name!

  46. nilk

    Hahaha. Just finishing up at the pro-Israel demo, and I got to hang with Anne, Mrs, the Doctor and others.

    And yes, Tom, Anne has her banner.

  47. notafan

    Nilk any report on the rally eg numbers etc
    Was there any media coverage?

    I see Catch the Fire is pro free speech

  48. pete m

    According to Numbnut – Butch gets a free pass for years of verbal abuse because he endured a few observation missions in Nam. Claims with precision he must be ptsd. Says the same about former serving fellows (now this I can accept).

    But the yank soldiers whacked out on dope and other drugs living horrors daily, who did bad things in mi lai get no such understanding or defence.

    numbnut never met a yank he didn’t already hate.

  49. stackja

    C.L.
    #1410950, posted on August 10, 2014 at 1:25 pm
    What you have to remember is that defending people from violence is not violence.
    When the Australian left supported Adolf Hitler during WWII (and worked to kill Diggers), they used all of the pacifist and ‘Christian’-manipulating arguments, including equivalency tricks.
    Nothing new.

    Left does not need to have anything new. Same old, same old still fools the gullible every time including the so-called knowledgeable MSM.

  50. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From pete m at 1:38 pm:

    “numbnut never met a yank he didn’t already hate.”

    Like your good self, pete m, I have always loved reading the Sunday comic strips. Good innit, eh?

  51. Grigory M

    Tindyebwa is an adopted Rwandan. I imagine he won’t want to change his name.

    “Tindy” is not actually adopted. It’s a surrogate arrangemeny whereby the former child soldier was unofficially adopted by Miss Thompson in 2003 after she met him at a Christmas party in London held by the Refugee Council.

    He had been sleeping rough in Trafalgar Square and she invited him to spend Christmas Day with her and Mr Wise.

    It seems he’s not happy with the celebrity lifestyle in the UK. Didn’t like University life in Exeter –

    Mr Agaba is now on a social and political degree course in Cambridge following his time at Exeter.

    Note – Mr Agaba, not Mr Wise – and the type of degree course is unsurprising.

  52. Jack Hughes

    WIIS, The Man Who Never Was related to Operation Mincemeat, which was a deception operation for the invasion of Sicily (not Normandy).

  53. Oh come on

    When you can’t make them see the light, make them feel the heat.

    Very good.

  54. JC

    You stupid link doesn’t work, Grogory, you idiot.

  55. Oh come on

    How’s the Twitter hunting going, JC?

  56. JC

    OCO

    It’s a smorgasbord of riches on that ridiculous medium. You don’t even have to hunt for them. Every well known leftwing headcase is on twitter. Amazing.

  57. stackja

    Rwandan celebrity adoptee unhappy with the UK
    Read more at linky

  58. JC

    And OCO, you don’t even have to think of the next moron to mock because they all link to each other and they’re there for you on the page…. it’s like shooting ducks at an amusement park with greanades..

  59. Oh come on

    Excellent. What self-absorbed idiots they are. Fancy having the urge to spout your silly half baked thought bubbles out to the sheltered workshop of your fellow travellers for validation several times a day.

  60. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Well done, Kittehs and others. Awaiting a more detailed report.

    Just finished reading Max Arthur, “The Silent Day: A landmark oral history of D-Day on the Homefront”, Hodder and Stoughton 2014, where it is abundantly clear that secrecy and deliberate confusion regarding the actual landing place was still very much in place right up until June 6th, 1944.

    “Man who Never Was” though was a very good smokescreen earlier on.

  61. Oh come on

    Wow, long time since I’ve graced LGF’s pages. What a bizarre transformation that was. Charles Johnson has basically adopted the perspective of a Jewish Hollywood liberal.

  62. Combine Dave

    Hey, where’s oldsalt? Hahahaha

    🙂

  63. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Andrew at 12:35 pm :

    “Conversely, I’m NOT an adherent to the term “Christian name” and consider it a quite inappropriate usage”

    I do enjoy that stupid word, “inappropriate” and, after uttering an exaggerated spluttering “tut, tut” in apparent agreement, I’m given to suggesting to the girlie who used it to try again with what they really mean … “I don’t like it.”

    That, of course, is best expressed nasally, high pitched and whiney, in the Pauline Hanson manner – “I don’t LIIIIIKE it.”.

    quite inappropriate” I believe is most effective when one’s hand is on one’s hip, mincing, then pouting at the end.

  64. Oh come on

    Indeed, Dave. Kudos again to MK for the masterly demonstration of the emperor’s sartorial inadequacy.

  65. Grigory M

    You stupid link doesn’t work, Grogory, you idiot.

    Keep your knickers on, Cutie-pie. Try this:

    Unhappy Tindyebwa

  66. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Dover, I had a look at your link to the photograph of that group of women, some very young, slaughtered in a modern shower recess as a result of an ISIS attack, and closely examined it for staging or photoshopping. It is real, and it will disturb my dreams tonight and for a while on. I am glad of this, because if it didn’t, I wouldn’t be a normal human being.

    We do need to know about this horror, and to show others exactly how bad it is.
    What are the Iman’s saying in Arabic about ISIS in the Lakemba mosque right now??
    Are they telling the faithful where the texts being used by ISIS are so wrong, so mis-interpreted?
    Tell us, please, ABC spokespeople for that great faith. We need you to tell us.
    Have they also condemned placards in Sydney streets promoting beheading, and held by children?
    Can you please let us know next time the ABC brings you into our living rooms? As they often do.

  67. The Allies committed a shocking war crime against the Germans in 1944 by deceiving them about the planned location of D-Day.

    Sorry, you are a year out and an invasion away.

    No, Zulu Kilo Two Alpha, the Allies, through the sterling work of such operatives as Agent Garbo—whom the British awarded an MBE and for whom Hitler personally directed an Iron Cross—did indeed deceive the Germans in 1944: so successfully that, for two weeks, Hitler insisted that the Normandy landings were an elaborate decoy; so successfully that German troops were ordered away from Normandy at first—saving countless Allied lives.

    See, for example:
    Ben Macintyre?, Double Cross: The True Story of the D-Day Spies (London, 2012);
    J.C. Masterman?, The Double-Cross System: The Incredible Story of How Nazi Spies Were Turned Into Double Agents (Guilford, 2011)
    Stephan Talty, Agent Garbo: The Brilliant Eccentric Agent Who Tricked Hitler and Saved D-Day (Boston and New York, 2012).

  68. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Elizabeth (Lizzie) B. at 1:58 pm:

    “…
    Just finished reading Max Arthur, “The Silent Day: A landmark oral history of D-Day on the Homefront”, Hodder and Stoughton 2014, where it is abundantly clear that secrecy and deliberate confusion regarding the actual landing place was still very much in place right up until June 6th, 1944.”

    A mate from here, now dead, had the job of paddling ashore, and occasionally parachuting, to wander about France, knife the odd German and then back home again. He was from Edinburgh, tall, good looking, well read and the gentlest fellow one can imagine – we gave him curry for never learning how to speak Australian intelligibly. He was a late teenager-early 20s lad serving in some sort of naval commando unit.

    Prior to D-Day he was sent to gather sand samples from one of the five beaches, for analysis as to the bearing capacity for military vehicles, plant and equipment. He’d hide in the mulga or on the headland during the day (how he managed that I don’t know – he was taller than my 6 feet and sported blonde hair as a young fella).

    He wasn’t so mobile during his last few years, from 75 onwards, and I’m grateful for that period sitting and yarning during which he educated me on some gaps in my knowledge of modern history.

  69. john constantine

    taken and twisted a bit from ‘the skeptics guide to the universe’.

    when a swampy looks you in the eye, and earnestly and passionately assures you of how they see the world, just remember that they have a distorted and constructed memory of a distorted and constructed perception, both of which are subservient to whatever narrative their brain is operating under.

    the switch by the abc from journalism and truthism reporting, to having conversations to reinforce their narrative demonstrates how it is more profitable to double your efforts to market the same old crap than to improve the quality of your product–especially if you can get the kids used to it young.

  70. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The Allies committed a shocking war crime against the Germans in 1944 by deceiving them about the planned location of D-Day. I recall seeing a movie starring Clifton Webb in the fifties called ‘The Man Who never Was”. Hopefully a number of Allied war criminals were prosecuted and hanged because of that, as it caused the deaths of many innocent Germans.

    My reading of the original post was that “The Man Who Never Was” was an operation in connection with D- day. I’m well aware of the fact that the Germans originally thought D-day itself was a bluff, and the main landings were still to come, in the Pas de Calais.

  71. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    damn, damn, damn.

    Just found out that a friend died unexpectedly last night. Bloody good man. Off to do what I can with helping the family.

    Why is it always the good ones?

  72. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Armadildo – skip now, Lizzie comment ahead:

    it’s like shooting ducks at an amusement park with greanades..

    All power to your throwing arm, JC. With grenades even.

    Your tweets have exactly the right level of innocence, bonhomie and accuracy of satirical intent to score some very direct hits. Even better, your prey, being fundamentally stupid, don’t always realize how barbed and effective you are are until later, when their friends tell them at leftie dinner parties that they’ve been thoroughly snookered by your subtle questioning. Being drunk at the time, they then forget to ban you, till it all happens again. Do keep sharing your exemplary gems with those of us* who don’t use twitter. No doubt some here are taking notes.

    ‘us’ OK there I hope, Deadman? I tried ‘with we who don’t use twitter’ but had second thoughts about your stern corrections. It’s all been a worry to me ever since Gillard went ‘we are us’, playing with my grammatical head.

  73. Your “with those of us who…” is fine, Lizzie—though why you refer to “stern corrections”, I don’t know.

  74. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I see what you mean, ZK2A. Anyway, it was all part of the same great deception – and how well they kept the secret given the scale of the operation. I’ve visited those Normandy beaches and it must have been hell on wheels there, with some tactical mistakes made and men thrown out simply to die because it was numbers that counted to win, given the circumstances.

    And amid the terrible slaughter, humanity still shone:

    “Win, Matron said, ‘You know we have a lot of German prisoners – they were picked up very early from the beaches.” I said I didn’t know but had just been told. She said, “Well, a lot of people won’t work with them. Will you do what you’re doing, for them?” Well, I was a bit meek and mild and I didn’t say anything and Win looked at me and Matron and said, “Hurry up and make up your minds, because if you are not going to do it, I’ll try somebody else.” Win looked at me and said, ‘Oh, come on, Naina. My Eddie is out there and if somebody said they wouldn’t clean him up, Mum (Win) would feel terrible.’ So, with that, I felt that if Win was going to do it, I’ll do it” (p. 259, ref. above)

  75. Woolfe

    Lizzie,
    You write beautifully so you should try twitter, it’s fun. Even Deadman is on!

  76. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Typo – it was the Matron who said ‘hurry up and make up your minds’.

    I had to hurry up the typing, because Da Hairy Ape is reading now this book and wanted it urgently, to take to his special place of reading. 😉

  77. Oh come on

    Twitter couldn’t possibly accommodate beautiful writing.

  78. For the successful deception of the Germans, making them think “Husky” was not an invasion of Sicily, see Ben Macintyre, Operation Mincemeat: The True Spy Story that Changed the Course of World War II (London, 2010); Macintyre provides details which Ewan Montagu could not provide in The Man Who Never Was (London, 1953).

  79. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    though why you refer to “stern corrections”, I don’t know.

    I always take any correction of me as ‘stern’, Deadman. A major character flaw, says a despairing Hairy Ape, who tries very hard to improve me. He should be so lucky.

    Mk50 – ‘in the midst of life we are in death’. It is good that you have gone to comfort the family.

  80. Oh come on

    My issue with Twitter is that, as a medium of communication, it serves such a facile purpose. It seems to me extremely unlikely that anything of any consequence could arise from an exchange of opinions on Twitter.

    Its only redeeming feature is that leftists cannot resist using it, and often inadvertently expose their carefully concealed bigotry to the world.

  81. Oh come on

    Woolfe, beautiful writing cannot limit itself to 180 characters.

  82. Twitter, I’ve found, is an effective medium—in 140 characters or fewer—of providing links to many worthwhile articles and interesting sites.

    (That was 140 characters.)

  83. stackja

    War on words – the crossword panic of May 1944
    During World War II, newspapers such as the Telegraph played a vital role in informing the population of the latest developments on the home front and on the battlefields. In addition, despite its reduced size during this time, the Telegraph continued to print the popular daily crossword puzzle. This no doubt provided a welcome break from the hardships of wartime Britain and helped people pass the time in air-raid shelters across the capital. However, during this time the Telegraph’s puzzles started attracting the attention of MI5, Britain’s counter espionage service.

  84. Tom

    Correct, Deadman. Twitter is a brilliant content distribution channel.

  85. The famed epigram of Simonides on the Spartan dead, “? ????’, ?????????…”—beautiful writing—consisted of only 82 characters.

  86. Oh come on

    Twitter serves a purpose. But I think it dumbs down communication.

  87. Bill Thompson

    Outside “Insiders” this morning – I had a clash of events today, so I had to race around before the show started & see if I could catch anyone going in. Gerard Henderson drew the short straw & was kind enough to stop for a chat, although the cold air seemed to mist up the lens. Either that, or just a dopey producer, again…

  88. Gab

    Helen
    #1410001, posted on August 9, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    I wonder if we will ever know her story, the girl who was trussed naked and bled out into a bucket like a pig. I wonder when her heart last sang through the sheer joy of living youth and if she had any inkling it would be the last time […]

    Brava, Helen. Beautifully written.

  89. Never give in, never give in, never, never, never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense.

    Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

    Winston Spencer Churchill
    29 October 1941 to the boys at Harrow School

  90. stackja

    U.S. Major General Henry Miller, chief supply officer of the US 9th Air Force, during a party at Claridge’s Hotel in London complained to guests of the supply problems he was having but that after the invasion, which he told them would be before 15 June, supply would be easier. After being told, Eisenhower reduced Miller to lieutenant colonel [Associated Press, June 10, 1944] and sent him back to the U.S. where he retired. [F Pogue, The Supreme Command, Department of the Army, 1954, p163-4]

    Invasion of Normandy From Wikipedia

  91. Oh come on

    Communication, even. Damn dumbphone.

    Deadman, I didn’t say beautiful writing couldn’t exist if less than 180 characters in length.

  92. Gab

    I mean to say, your entire post, not just the first paragraph, Helen.

  93. stackja

    Oh come on
    #1411055, posted on August 10, 2014 at 3:12 pm
    Twitter serves a purpose. But I think it dumbs down communication.

    Just the dumb medium for the dumb MSM.

  94. Woolfe

    Didn’t you?

    Woolfe, beautiful writing cannot limit itself to 180 characters.

  95. Infidel Tiger

    No one on earth does Twitter better than Iowahawk:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/iowahawkblog

  96. Mr Abbott,

    1. It is not too late to change your approach.
    2. Return to that which gave you the courage to challenge for the leadership.
    3. Listen to Cory Bernardi

  97. But I think [Twitter] dumbs down communication.

    At times, certainly, but generally for those who are already impoverished thinkers. In literature, particularly epigrammatic poetry, and in other arts—think of the humble woodcut—thoughtful people have ever transcended the limitations of strict media to create lasting and beautiful works.

  98. cohenite

    My GP is Muslim.
    I reckon his IQ is above 50 – Med School etc.
    I wonder how he escaped?

    Maybe he’s related to Nidal Malik Hasan.

  99. notafan

    I wonder how IS will get on with medical treatment when they ban modern education?

    The taliban banned anatomy books and women doctors and forbade women to be seen by male doctors.

    Life is cheap and getting cheaper.

  100. Oh come on

    Woolfe, beautiful writing cannot limit itself to 180 characters.

    Didn’t you?

    No, I didn’t limit myself to 180 characters. I wouldn’t consider that beautiful writing, either 🙂

    Again, not saying that beautiful writing cannot be brief. However, artificial restraints that enforce brevity are not conducive to the production of beautiful writing.

  101. custard

    Bill Thompson
    #1411057, posted on August 10, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Bill that glow around Hendo seemed to get brighter as the clip went on. Was that his controlled rage heating up as he prepared himself for the left stacked couch?

  102. jumpnmcar

    I rarely breach 140 characters here so I may try twitter after all.

  103. hammy

    I’ve just googled “The Man Who Never Was” and can confirm that WIIS is wrong – it was about Sicily. What can you expect from a far rightist? They are always full of misinformation and have a pathological wish to believe falsities.

    Of course I do agree with him on one aspect – such deceits ARE war crimes and do cost many lives.

  104. Oh come on

    At times, certainly, but generally for those who are already impoverished thinkers.

    True, but writing at its best is capable of enlightening such people. Twitter, for the most part, does not accommodate this calibre of writing.

  105. JC

    thoughtful people have ever transcended the limitations of strict media to create lasting and beautiful works.

    Ive created countless lasting and beautiful works on twitter, deads. Countless

  106. Limit characters
    to one hundred and forty,
    and yet still inform

    effectively? Yes,
    and it can be done using
    some poetic norm.

    (125 characters)

  107. A poster—Oh come on—has said
    that Twitter is better not read;
    thus critics have gibed
    at words circumscribed,
    preferring the prolix instead.

    (140 characters.)

  108. Oh come on

    yes yes haikus. Still, I don’t think that undermines anything I’ve said. Incidentally, you weren’t able to inform in a single piece.

    Again, not saying Twitter serves no purpose. But I do think it serves a limited purpose. Blogging is a much more valuable medium for conversing.

  109. Mr Abbott,

    1. It is not too late to change your approach.
    2. Return to that which gave you the courage to challenge for the leadership.
    3. Listen to Cory Bernardi

  110. Helen

    I have been reading, among other books, Yousef, Mosab Hassan’s “Son of Hamas: A gripping Account of Terror, Betrayal, Political Intrigue …. ” – very long title and not sure how to write Christian names in Arabic (He is now apostate)

    P 11

    Islamic life is like a ladder, with prayer and praising Allah at the bottom rung. The higher rungs represent helping the poor and needy, establishing schools, and supporting charities. The highest rung is jihad.

    P 12

    A moderate Muslim is actually more dangerous than a fundamentalist, however, because he appears to be harmless, and you can never tell whe he has taken that next step to the top. Most suicide bombers began as moderates.

    As you can see sleep has curtailed much advancement, but I thought these comments worth sharing.

  111. “Senator Bernardi is a backbencher and his views do not represent the position of the government.”
    Tony Abbott

    There’s your problem, Mr Abbott

  112. Oh come on

    No, not preferring the prolix. It’s more about not yoking communication with some kind of artificial constraint to the point that communication itself is disrupted and degraded – as you kindly illustrated by subjecting your writing to the conventions of the haiku and, in doing so, you were unable to put forward the point, defeating your primary purpose for communicating in the first place.

  113. Oh come on

    Incidentally, Deadman – how’s your boy?

  114. Oh come on

    your point, not the point.

  115. Ellen of Tasmania

    We have never called ourselves a ‘denomination’
    Protestant denominations are our separated brothers

    Notafan, does that depend on whether you accept the changes made by Vatican II? (That’s probably not the correct terminology, but I hope you know what I mean.) As I understand it, the Council of Trent and Vatican I don’t recognise protestants as brethren at all – but I’m open to correction. I’m guessing that would be the position of at least some of the Cat Catholics, but it saddens me, so I don’t ask.

    I asked before if Vatican II was problematical for the Catholic Church? I understand there are a number of different ‘schools’ under the overall Catholic umbrella. Splits aren’t just a Protestant phenomena, it seems.

    One day the Catholic/Protestant divide – and all the divisions in between – will be a strange, sad blip in the history of the Church.

  116. were unable to put forward the point

    I beg to differ; I was making the point that, in under 140 characters, using a strict poetic form, I could make a point in under 140 characters, using a strict poetic form. Next, in another poetic form, a limerick, I communicated that you don’t care at all for Twitter.

    Alfred’s fine, by the way.

  117. notafan

    ‘schools’

    Ellen I am not a theologian but we don’t call them schools but rites ie Latin Rite , there is agreement on the the essentials but room on the rules ie Maronites for one can have married priests, so I wouldn’t call them schisms
    I’ll check the other,

    from wiki

  118. Oh come on

    You needed two haikus to make your point. Thus the haiku format was inappropriate for your purpose.

    Any update on the town hall incident/relations with the school administration?

  119. Tintarella di Luna

    A poster—Oh come on—has said
    that Twitter is better not read;
    thus critics have gibed
    at words circumscribed,
    preferring the prolix instead.

    nice Deadman both of them

  120. notafan

    Ellen my point was that a Catholic would not refer to themselves as a member of a Christian denomination, as that is not a Catholic belief.

    As far as I can see the separated brethren beliefs, as I understand them are here

  121. Tintarella di Luna

    Helen thanks for your contributions of last night and this morning.

  122. notafan

    Also some of the rites in the Catholic church are returns rather than schisms

  123. You needed two haikus to make your point

    No, I didn’t need but chose to make my point in multiple rhymed haikus—a form which may well be mine own, for I like such light verse forms—but I have at times over the years used single haikus to make points.

    The haeku’s a verse,
    of seventeen syllables,
    meaningful, but terse.

    I could stop there, but shan’t:

    The original
    form had to contain a word
    which is seasonal;

    but the modern kind
    can be very expressive
    without that, I find.

  124. stackja

    Regarding churches:

    “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).

    The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show.

    linky

  125. Oh come on

    Agreed, Tinta.

    Twitter is great for snark. I can also see why Deadman and Tom say it’s a useful aggregator of links to content. However, it sucks as a medium for discussion of matters at anything other than a superficial depth. Unfortunately, it’s crowded out other mediums, and in doing so has had a deleterious effect on discussion.

    To me, Twitter impedes discussion in the way that accessing the web with a 2800bps dialup modem would impede the utility of the internet.

  126. Rafe

    A nice collection of haiga, by Kilmeny Niland, combining haiku and images. Click on the image to get the full picture.

    Kilmeny Niland (1950-2009) was the webmistsress of the Rathouse.

    Nice pictures of Kilmeny Niland and others.

  127. Fisky

    Twitter is a fine forum for taking aim at Leftists. There is no need to argue with Leftists at length because all their ideas are wrong anyway.

  128. oldsalt

    Bachelard tells some, but not all of the truth. Two French journalists arrested in Papua. link

    In fact, they were suspected of being involved in a lot more than that, with a group who have been on a killing rampage.

    One of the people arrested had two passports with different identities, one of which was issued for staff working in the French Embassy in Tel Aviv. Nor did Bachelard report the Australian connection and the well known Australian activist who brought the OPM to meet them.

    Watchpoints

    1. Will Jakarta ask us to arrest and charge our citizen? Will they pressure us at Treaty level to criminalise/crack down on people giving material support to armed groups, in return for the sort of cooperation we want?

    2. How, if at all, would the proposed legislation affect activities of this sort?

  129. Oh come on

    Many of us were once leftists. I suspect that we would still be leftists if the contact we had with the various people who managed to convince us of the folly of leftism was confined to Twitter.

  130. Ellen of Tasmania

    Thanks, Notafan. I understand that I was using incorrect terminology, but the differences – by whatever name they are called – still exist. Of course I don’t want to ignore that which is held in common and makes a person or church ‘Christian’ – followers of Christ.

    I usually use http://www.catholic.com when I have questions, but I’ve noticed that different Catholic sites have different views in different areas, just like the Proddies. Christ’s Church is still young. We’ve got a lot of growing up to do yet, but one day, the Church will be glorious.

  131. Oh come on

    When I recall the process that led me to rejecting leftism, there’s no way the people who made me think twice about my beliefs would have succeeded had I conversed with them solely through Twitter.

    The fact that it is such an excellent vehicle for snark and driveby character assassinations (often richly deserved, and wildly entertaining at their best) further reduces the likelihood that ideas could be spread and minds could be changed in the most effective way – through a good faith exchange of views.

  132. egg_

    I’ve just googled “The Man Who Never Was”…

    Looking up yourself, Hamster?

  133. JC

    Ariel

    Are you out of bed yet? Time for a stoush, limpdick.

  134. Oh come on

    Still no sign of oldsalt, Fisky. Where could he be? His impartial insider’s perspective was such an asset of this blog. Har har har.

  135. Ros

    Those of us foolish enough to watch the Drum would have heard our commentariat, sadly of course, expressing their views that if only Bush hadn’t taken out Saddam then the horror of ISIS wouldn’t be happening now in Iraq. As usual they have got it arse about. It wasn’t that he took Saddam and his monstrous mates out, it was that he didn’t get rid of them. But he wasn’t the President that pulled out and left the job undone, it was Obama.

    Gareth Stansfield, interview Rudaw, June, Insurgency is as Much Old Baathist as it is ISIS.

    “They’re in partnership, right now, with a distribution of roles and activities. This insurgency is as much old Baathist as it is ISIS. And certainly, the seven tribes of Anbar that always supported al-Qaeda will come back into it. They’re extremely numerous and dangerous. They’ve got a common denominator as a cause, which is to remove the Shiite-dominated government in Iraq………..
    don’t see why these alliances should break, and I don’t see it as an ISIS-dominated alliance, either. We forget too readily just how numerous, committed and well trained the Baathists were in Iraq. You were indoctrinated from when you were seven years old. This was as big as being in a religious order. Just because Saddam is hanged doesn’t mean that’s changed. These guys are very capable and determined figures. And there’s a lot of them. If you remember, in 2003, the Special Republican Guard never committed to battle. Most of the Republican Guard didn’t either. You then have Saddam’s bodyguard network that was never really found, and a special security operation that wasn’t either. All these specially trained Baathists went to Syria, hid out in Mosul, went to Yemen, or to various Gulf States. And now they’re back. 

    There’s a partnership and they complement each other extremely well. We see the way they’ve complemented each other by the way they govern Mosul. They’ve now got a Baath colonel as the governor of Mosul and there are clear divisions of authority. They might be tricky with each other but it’s working thus far. And the tribes fit into it very neatly.”

    Kill mothers, wives, school children, teachers, Muslims, Kurds and intellectuals.
    Summary executions, line up entire male populations of a group and shoot them systematically, one at a time.
    Systematic rape, and murder of women, by beheading, and display heads on poles.
    Murder entire families including children, brutally.
    Forced relocation of ethnic minorities.

    Some of the Baathist techniques to terrorise and control. Sound familiar. Even UN seems to be getting it, warning cultural cleansing emerging.

    And those photos, not for us, for the people of Iraq, and social media available as a great tool now which it wasn’t for the Baathists. Now can spread message of terror much further and with much greater impact. What father would cross them when confronted with the horrible murders of those kids, or women. Yazidis alone estimated thousand women so far taken. Where are all those celebrity women, including Michelle Obama, telling the world how they so care and how the world should do something about it..

    Who is one of the major players in this latest outrage, none other than the King of Clubs, ex Deputy President Iraq then Head of Baath, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri. His murderous mob, Naqshbandis, formed 2007, thousands of soldiers, many ex Saddam’s army. When Tal Afar was attacked it was by a force that was almost entirely former Baathists.

    But the luvies, is that what you guys call them, will continue to operate as knowledge vacuums, smugly and vainly declaring it was all down to Bush. When they really make me sick is when they say, not that I approved of Saddam, but he kept all this horror under control. He and the Baathists were the same horror we are seeing now, but probably emboldened by the weak idiotic western leaders who are again abandoning the Kurds and the others.

    It seems somehow worse if you see the brutality as calculated and purposeful rather than religion gone mad. On the other hand however monstrous the actions, that they are the acts of reasoning beings makes them more beatable.

    Someone earlier, apologies can’t remember who, wondered about Iran. Stansfield again.
    “shows just how far things have changed. In 2007-2008 you had David Petraeus organizing the defense of Baghdad, setting up American outposts in the city. And now it’s Qassem Soleimani who’s putting people in defensive positions and organizing the militias. There are no Americans there; this is an Iranian-designed defense of Baghdad that’s happening. ” Iran is there, they are having funerals for their soldiers being killed in Iraq.

  136. Complaining that Twitter posts won’t change leftist’s mind is like complaining that sonnets do not provide the character analysis of novels.

    (140 characters.)

  137. Fisky

    oldsalt, I’m afraid there is no scope for you to retreat to your previous role as a pub gossip peddler in the hope that you might somehow rebuild the rapport and credibility that has evaporated. You’re done.

  138. Talking of sonnets, here’s one by Lord Alfred Douglas:

    Sonnet on the Sonnet

    To see the moment holds a madrigal,
    To find some cloistered place, some hermitage
    For free devices, some deliberate cage
    Wherein to keep wild thoughts like birds in thrall;
    To eat sweet honey and to taste black gall,
    To fight with form, to wrestle and to rage,
    Till at the last upon the conquered page
    The shadows of created Beauty fall.

    This is the sonnet, this is all delight
    Of every flower that blows in every Spring,
    And all desire of every desert place;
    This is the joy that fills a cloudy night
    When bursting from her misty following,
    A perfect moon wins to an empty space.

  139. Oh come on

    Fisky, so you’re saying the credentials oldsalt awarded himself are in tatters and his credibility will never recover?

  140. Oh come on

    Complaining that Twitter posts won’t change leftist’s mind is like complaining that sonnets do not provide the character analysis of novels.

    No, it isn’t – it’s quite different. The purpose of a sonnet is not to provide a character analysis of a novel. Why communicate, engage in debate and so forth? Isn’t it to change minds and expand one’s own thinking? By its very nature, Twitter inhibits this kind of communication. I think a better analogy is the one I made above of an attempt to engage the breadth of content found in today’s web with a 20 year old dialup modem.

  141. JC

    LOl,

    Hollywood must be taking their cues from the Australian Liars Party. When in trouble send in the women.

    HOLLYWOOD is calling on female action heroes to win audiences back to the cinema.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/hollywood-wakes-up-as-saldana-johansson-shine-at-box-office/story-fnb64oi6-1227019488358

  142. cynical1

    A strange world.

    A bunch of fanantics named ISIS are doing the most foul things to other humans, and
    yet, it’s nothing that Mexicans haven’t being doing for years to each.

    In fact, the Mexicans if anything are worse, using chainsaws, sewing faces onto footballs
    or boiling alive their rivals.

    A few years ago, Yugoslavia was torn apart by nationalism and religion, and another
    bunch of butchers had their fun. The Serbian Christians.

    The Croats had a camp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp)
    in WW2 that shocked the Nazis.

    The Japanese in Manchuria.

    And on and on.

    So it’s not just Islam. That’s just a pretext for the latest gang.

  143. Oh come on

    Oh, didn’t notice oldsalt had popped back in. So, how’s everything going, oldsalt?

  144. oldsalt

    Nope not good enough Fisky. All open source go see for yourself shit for brains.

    It’s another example of the highly selective and less than candid reporting that has come from Fairfax in Jakarta of late.

  145. JC

    This judge is a walking saint. On his death he should be sanctified, as he’s doing the Lord’s work on earth.

    US District Judge Thomas Griesa threatened a contempt-of-court order yesterday if the country continues issuing what he described as false statements about having made a required debt payment on restructured sovereign bonds, though he quickly added he most desires a peaceful negotiated end to the long-running debt dispute.

    Later in the day, the US said it would not agree to grant the International Court of Justice (ICJ) jurisdiction on the case filed yesterday by Argentina for The Hague court to take action over the country’s sovereign debt dispute. A State Department spokesman said the UN tribunal would not be “the proper venue” for the dispute.

    In his office in Manhattan, Griesa railed at Argentina’s lawyers from Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton following the publication of another so-called legal notice insisting the government has met its payment requirements and was therefore not in default.

    Griesa said these notices were “regularly” and “systematically” omitting what he described as the country’s vital obligations. He held a newspaper copy of the notice as he threatened the contempt-of-court order.

    He’s threatening those bastards with contempt of court. Go for it and don’t look back.

  146. Oh come on

    Later in the day, the US said it would not agree to grant the International Court of Justice (ICJ) jurisdiction on the case filed yesterday by Argentina for The Hague court to take action over the country’s sovereign debt dispute.

    Hahaha. Cop that, Argy spivs. And a solid size 13 boot in the face of the creepy ICJ as a bonus.

  147. Oh come on

    The Argies are a despicable bunch of mendicants.

  148. oldsalt

    All good tnx OCO, the under 14s have just won by over 100 points [no not St Kilda]. If and when you want the latest update on boats let me know [perhaps weekly?] some others here have chosen to remain information poor.

  149. Fisky

    Nope not good enough Fisky. All open source go see for yourself shit for brains.

    You don’t seem to have quite perceived the problem. The problem is that you are in fact a Labor Party propagandist who tried very hard to pose as an informed insider until that spectacularly fell apart yesterday evening. Nothing you do or say is going to make the slightest difference going forward.

  150. Oh come on

    oldsalt, after the events of last night, I think you’ll be battling to find a non-incredulous audience round these parts. Just a hunch.

    Actually, numbnuts will probably tune in.

  151. Mike of Marion

    Tintarella di Luna
    #1410432, posted on August 9, 2014 at 11:58 pm

    Re Sopranos , may I offer this performer to you – Sissel of Norway singing Ave Maria firstly solo and later with Placido Domingo. Mike

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=selrkcvErG8

    With Domingo about 2002 when they studio recorded for Domingo’s Album Sacred songs

  152. Ros

    While the only rule of law that the haters of Israel mention, as directed by Hamas, is proportionality, it does seem that numbers holds them liable under Distinction as well. One of the rules that the Palestinians have been warned will find them up on charges if they choose to join the ICC.

    “The principle of distinction protects civilian persons and civilian objects from the effects of military operations. It requires parties to an armed conflict to distinguish at all times, and under all circumstances, between combatants and military objectives on the one hand, and civilians and civilian objects on the other; and only to target the former. It also provides that civilians lose such protection should they take a direct part in hostilities.”

    What Goldstone had to say when Israel was able to complete its investigations and he had the information. One of his points was that Hamas did not, and showed no interest in, investigating their actions.

    “Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and “possibly crimes against humanity” by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets………

    While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy…..

    The purpose of these investigations, as I have always said, is to ensure accountability for improper actions, not to second-guess, with the benefit of hindsight, commanders making difficult battlefield decisions.”

    While this was the previous war what information do you have numbers that leads you to conclude that Israel was operating differently this time? Or Hamas?

    I am sure I have grumbled before about rules of engagement and that Israel’s roes are pretty standard, whereas Hamas’s seem to go against accepted norms, eg firing rockets randomly and targetting civilians. And the believability of their plausible deniability claims, we didn’t have control of those people, (ludicrous as their roes appear to be you have absolute independence to kill whoever and whenever you can), doesn’t matter because the Jews are always liars for some. Others just can’t be bothered to investigate and consider, Hamas’s pr machine good enough.

    And that Obama changed the US roes in 2010? Which meant in Afghanistan more soldiers died than would have under the previous roes. That is he markedly reduced their ability to respond to hostile fire, and hence save their themselves or other soldiers from death or injury.I don’t see why Israel should be required to sacrifice their soldiers lives to satisfy Obama’s moral vanity.

  153. So it’s not just Islam. That’s just a pretext for the latest gang.

    Except Islam wants to be the latest gang that controls the world – submit or die is hardly a throwaway line

  154. Mater

    until that spectacularly fell apart yesterday evening.

    Fisky,
    Your humility is noted, but you were well onto it days ago. Last night was just the coup de grâce.

  155. MsDolittle

    Fresh back from Melbourne gathering of people for peace in support of Israel protest. What a privilege.

  156. Gab

    While the only rule of law that the haters of Israel mention, as directed by Hamas, is proportionality, it does seem that numbers holds them liable under Distinction as well.

    Yes the “proportionate” argument is the domain of idiots and the left (birm). What they are saying, in essence, is not enough Jews have been killed by Hamas. In this, like ISIS, they are willful and willing propagandists of genocide, just like the NAZIS were.

  157. stackja

    Mention of rules of engagement reminds me of the book The Coast Watchers by Eric Feldt. The Coast Watchers were a law under themselves and were backed by their boss Feldt. Any threat to a Coast Watcher brought lethal retribution on the person who endangered a Coast Watcher.

  158. Mater

    MsDolittle,
    Very interested in your general impressions and observations of the event.

  159. Fresh back from Melbourne gathering of people for peace in support of Israel protest. What a privilege.

    Can we get a precis of your take on the day?

  160. JC

    @BazCassidyABC Hey Barrie, can I ask what type of ray lamp u use. Is it a home use one or u go to a salon for the full fry job?

  161. You don’t seem to have quite perceived the problem. The problem is that you are in fact a Labor Party propagandist who tried very hard to pose as an informed insider until that spectacularly fell apart yesterday evening. Nothing you do or say is going to make the slightest difference going forward.

    Translation –
    The thought police at Catallaxy are giving you a right smearing because you had the temerity not to follow the politically correct line on asylum seekers.

    I wouldn’t give a stuff, IIWU.

    The individual who wrote that has about as much credibility as Metronome Tone.

  162. Fisky

    The thought police at Catallaxy are giving you a right smearing because you had the temerity not to follow the politically correct line on asylum seekers.

    A better way of putting is: he has been exposed for promoting policies that demonstrably failed, and for opposing policies that have been an enormous success.

  163. Fisky

    And also: for pretending to be an insider in operations that he evidently had no first-hand involvement in.

  164. Is it a home use one or u go to a salon for the full fry job?

    aaaaahahahahahahaha Gold.

  165. JC

    Unreal. So this red-towel headed twerp goes in to bat for Hamas Mike.

    That episode on the eastern suburbs school bus on Wednesday, where a bunch of hoodlums started ranting and threatening Jewish schoolkids? Completely appalling, and all the more so because it was targeted at mere innocent kids, with no means to defend themselves. But if we are against that, who can not be against children on the Gaza strip in schools chosen as bomb shelters, being ripped apart by Israeli bombs? About 400 children have been killed. That is precisely the kind of devastation my friend Mike Carlton’s last two columns were aimed at.

    As one who was a war correspondent in Vietnam, he saw the burnt bodies of many kids blown apart, and feels the issue viscerally as well as intellectually.

    As to the cartoon that ran with one of those columns, he had no more to do with that than I have to do with whatever cartoon Reg runs with this column. And the Herald was right to apologise for the offence and trauma that image caused.

    Sure, the issue over which he resigned, the ranting at readers who disagree – of whom a huge number are trolls who attack him on Twitter on a daily basis – is more problematic. But the accusation by the likes of Austen Tayshus and assorted columnists that he is an anti-Semite is simply and demonstrably not true.

    When I first started working with him on 2UE Breakfast in 2006, there was no team member he more revered than the brilliant satirist Josh Zepps, who is Jewish. Zepps was among the first to defend Carlton on Twitter. Another defender was Fairfax journalist Jonathan Swan, also Jewish, who Carlton met at my home on Australia Day this year and who the columnist effusively praised for his work.

    Mike has dined at my home many times with my close Jewish friends – most of whom are his close Jewish friends. (And thanks, I know ‘‘Some of my best friends are Jewish’’ is a cliche, but it is pertinent.) Three months ago, I was there when Carlton’s daughter married a terrific Jewish man and Mike’s heartfelt speech brought tears.

    Carlton is many things – brilliant, bellicose, fearless, foolhardy, insightful, abrasive, eloquent, quick-tempered and generous spring to mind – but an anti-Semite he ain’t. When he bitterly criticises the actions of the Australian government, no one says he’s un-Australian. So why should he be thought anti-Semitic for ripping into the actions of the Israeli government – particularly when many Israelis feel the same?

    As to how’s he’s travelling, the answer is fine. Ish. A great comfort to him is the thousands of emails and tweets of support he has received, and he asks me to pass on his heartfelt thanks to readers for them. (And I note he put on 5000 Twitter followers in just the past week. His is a voice that will continue to be heard.)

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/coach-abbott-lacing-up-the-boots-again-20140808-101v5q.html#ixzz39yQPEQuY

    So according the red towel, the only way to stop Australian Jewish kids from being violated on school buses is for Israel to stop protecting itself against Hamas.

    What a fucking piece of shit he is.

  166. JC

    He’s a sporting sun drenched Aussie, Carp. That’s the image he wants to dish out. The fucking moron.

  167. Mater

    IIWU
    If I Were You…I assume

  168. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Meanwhile, at ‘Metronome Tone’s house’, MT reads a comment by stalin’s butt-boy, Numbers the racist anti-semitic bigot.

    He glances up at the wall, seeing the heads of Turnbull, Rudd and Gillard mounted there.

    Gently, he smiles and thinks ‘racist narcissists are such idiots’.

  169. JC

    @mscott Hey Mark, does @BazCassidyABC have part of his salary packaged for tan salon visits? He was beetroot red today.

  170. lotocoti

    And also: …

    I’m sorry I missed the hot needle of inquiry being applied to our crusty old matelot.
    I gather a question about Spam would’ve elicited a recipe for fritters.

  171. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    So it’s not just Islam. That’s just a pretext for the latest gang.

    Except Islam wants to be the latest gang that controls the world – submit or die is hardly a throwaway line

    Yes, Jessie’s link showed that Sh’ia as well as Sunni can be vicious, operating without control in Baghdad, killing 27 women and girls in a brothel. Two women were mentioned as slaughtered in a bathroom in that piece, Jessie, whereas Dover’s link showed a shower cubicle with five terrified and slaughtered women and girls. Whether they come from the same massacre is a moot point.

    Massacres and gang crimes of unimaginable horror have always been with us, but as noted above, when the scale of the thing is world domination and whipping up fervor for more and more of the same, then the game gets beyond mere criminal gangs and into crimes against humanity.

  172. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Pretending to be
    An insider who knows much
    Fails before real facts

  173. egg_

    HOLLYWOOD is calling on female action heroes to win audiences back to the cinema.

    The Titterverse?

  174. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    seeing the heads of Turnbull, Rudd and Gillard mounted there

    Perhaps I’m a bit oversensitive to such things (my emphasis entered above), but can we have another metaphor just for now please? Had enough of beheadings and trophy head-taking for one day.

  175. JC

    @leighsales Leigh, please hurry up @ get back. Sarah Soviet is ruining 7.30 with her appalling partisanship and upper lip lisp @FergusonNews

  176. So according the red towel, the only way to stop Australian Jewish kids from being violated on school buses is for Israel to stop protecting itself against Hamas.

    No, when a busload of jewish kids gets killed/Bombed then towelie will celebrate, he is an odious cretin and a ghoul who wants children to die so he can (in his mind) have a ‘gotcha’ moment.

    He should be waterboarded.

  177. MsDolittle

    Mater, very well organised, very well mannered. Speakers from both sides (Naptime & Andrews). Overwelming message of the desire of Australian Jewish people and their supporters for peace in their region. An unashamed support for the only fully democratic state in the Middle East. There was a general recognition of the horrors of war and the loss of civilian life. This tragic loss can only be seen in the context of over 10,000 rockets launched against Israeli civilians by the internationally recognised terrorist organisation Hamas. Israel will not cave in to people who will want to drive them into the sea all the way from to the sea. More power to them. And the sun shone. And we all went to the pub afterwards – is that a bad thing? Nope.

  178. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Aussie Dave has a very interesting analysis of Hamas losses here.

  179. IIWU
    If I Were You…I assume

    Thank you Mater, much appreciated.

  180. JC

    Leigh Sales [email protected] Aug 4

    I got a sneaky early copy of ANZAC Girls (my baby present from @mscott) – it’s very moving and tells an ANZAC story we’ve not heard before.

    @leighsales @mscott Mark, good to see you’re pinning the medal on Leigh as against Sarah Soviet-Jones. Get her back quickly. Show needs her.

  181. Baldrick

    JC
    #1411229, posted on August 10, 2014 at 5:56 pm
    As to how’s he’s travelling, the answer is fine. Ish. A great comfort to him is the thousands of emails and tweets of support he has received, and he asks me to pass on his heartfelt thanks to readers for them.

    There’s obviously a bromance developing between Pirate Pete and Butch Gin. Not long before they’re on the SSM bandwagon together at the next Mardi Gras.

  182. And we all went to the pub afterwards – is that a bad thing? Nope.

    Sounds like a damn fine day out – did Nilk go?

  183. Kaetrude

    Bandanna Man seems to imply that had it been a bus full of Jewish adults it would have been acceptable.

  184. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Lizzie comment warning for Armadildo (where is he/it, btw? Maybe I have no need to be so helpful):

    Time for a Tim-Tam!!

    I hope that is sufficiently annoying for him/it. I try to please.

    Hello Old Salt, I believe you’re back. You can always talk to me as long as you keep off your fave topics.
    I am well up to speed on all of the problems you have been having with them, and advise caution.

  185. Mater

    MsDolittle,
    Thankyou. Good on you.

  186. MsDolittle

    All the way to the sea!

  187. While the only rule of law that the haters of Israel mention, as directed by Hamas, is proportionality, it does seem that numbers holds them liable under Distinction as well. One of the rules that the Palestinians have been warned will find them up on charges if they choose to join the ICC.

    You’re putting words in my mouth. Never have I mentioned the ICJ. Taking this to the ICJ would be a complete waste of time.
    The point of all my posts about this conflict is that if Israel and Hamas keep doing what they have been doing for so long now, they will keep getting what they are getting.

    Neither has any benefit for Israel or Hamas. They have cooperated in creating a mutually destructive loop that results in the deaths of many Gazan civilians, some Hamas terrorists, some Israeli soldiers (many of whom are conscripts) and a (very) few Israeli civilians.

    It’s fascinating that I get lumbered with any anti-Israeli opinion posted by anyone anywhere. It bothers me not that when you stick your head up here you become a lightning rod, and generally get verballed. It’s just funny.

    “Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and “possibly crimes against humanity” by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets………

    It matters not whether people are killed intentionally or accidentally. They’re just as dead. This discussion is both irrational and irrelevant. If you’ve ever been on the receiving end of a misdirected salvo of 155mm high explosive ordinance, you would remember not giving a shit whether it was intentional or not – you’re more concerned with survival, and if you do survive, getting square at the psychopath who has just tried to kill you. If family or comrade are killed, and you survive, you’ll probably spend the rest of your life angry and intent on revenge. As pointed out above, a hideous loop.

    And that Obama changed the US roes in 2010? Which meant in Afghanistan more soldiers died than would have under the previous roes. That is he markedly reduced their ability to respond to hostile fire, and hence save their themselves or other soldiers from death or injury.I don’t see why Israel should be required to sacrifice their soldiers lives to satisfy Obama’s moral vanity.

    This was the Yanks’ criticism of Australian tactics in Vietnam – that we pussy footed around and didn’t go straight up the guts intent on blowing everything away. The end result was a much higher proportionate causalty rate amongst the Septics, and the fear and absolute loathing of the populace, which endures today amongst those who remember the war. There is nothing wrong with Obama’s ROEs.

    What is so wrong that it is patently absurd, is the macho posturing of the keyboard commandos posting here who have never been on the two way range.

    I don’t know what the solution to the conflict in Gaza is likely to be, but it sure as hell isn’t groundhog day………

  188. Ros

    Speaking of twitter a possibly true yarn in Niquash 31/07/2014

    A satire, one man’s political journey from Saddam to the Caliphate.
    An Iraqi writer compiles a satirical history of one local political wanna-be who went from ingesting a wolf’s innards as a commando for Saddam Hussein to an aide and accomplice to US forces to forming an alliance with Sunni Muslim extremists from the Islamic State.    

    “As a spokesperson for the oppressed, Aboud spent one full night in the area where anti-government demonstrations were usually held. He also spent three nights in Ahrara Square, in central Mosul, before his loyalties were purchased with a bottle of whiskey and some dollars by Mahdi al-Ghrawi, the head of the Ninawa Operations Command. After this Aboud became the Iraqi military’s ears and eyes among the demonstrators – that is, until he was caught by Ghanem al-Abed, the spokesperson for the protestors, relaying a stirring speech that was being given at the protests, through his Samsung Galaxy 3 mobile phone to the Iraqi army.

    The protestors beat Aboud but they were kind to him. They broke some of his ribs and his right leg. They also took a piece of his left ear. But he survived and he was remorseful, wrapped in bandages, while in a local hospital.  

    At a press conference held near a falafel restaurant in central Mosul, Aboud then announced he was giving up advocacy work and that he was becoming one of the silent majority. In reality though, he actually created a number of Facebook pages and Twitter identities, using different nick names. On these pages he began attacking local officials, using insults and bad language. He also circulated lies and rumours. On his personal Facebook page though, Aboud maintained decorum: He posted religious verse, advice for daily life, pictures of pets and historic places and his personal photo showed him wrapped in white cloth and surrounded by pigeons near the Prophet’s Mosque. ” 

    http://www.niqash.org/articles/?id=3503

  189. MsDolittle

    DrDo’s came too, with a little sciatica, he felt it was the least he could do.

  190. Delta A

    a bromance developing between Pirate Pete and Butch Gin.

    Yucky, Baldrick. That image just set the gay lobby back a good 20 years.

  191. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    This tragic loss can only be seen in the context of over 10,000 rockets launched against Israeli civilians by the internationally recognised terrorist organisation Hamas. Israel will not cave in

    Nor should it. This is about the survival of Israel and its people. Glad the protest went well.

  192. MsDolittle

    Well there was only one of ‘I’m and he’s not possessive.

  193. Baldrick

    JC
    #1411250, posted on August 10, 2014 at 6:13 pm
    Leigh Sales [email protected] Aug 4
    I got a sneaky early copy of ANZAC Girls (my baby present from @mscott) – it’s very moving and tells an ANZAC story we’ve not heard before.

    If I see one actor running up the beach at Gallipoli wearing a slouch hat, it’s all over for Anzac Girls. During the landing they wore British style caps.

  194. stackja

    Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC
    #1411248, posted on August 10, 2014 at 6:13 pm
    Aussie Dave has a very interesting analysis of Hamas losses here.

    Reminds me of:

    “Lies, damned lies, and statistics” is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.

  195. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From JC at 5:56 pm:

    “Unreal. So this red-towel headed twerp goes in to bat for Hamas Mike.

    “… Carlton is many things – brilliant, bellicose, fearless …” “

    … which is why he is dignified in these parts with the affectionate nickname of “Butch”.

  196. oldsalt

    Yep Numbers of course I don’t give a ratz what some of the po-faced cyber fantasists write. MK50 pretended to be an authority and when exposed tried to dissemble and threaten to cover up for his lack of detailed knowledge on the issue. And still can’t answer, coz he’s a clueless fantasist. Pissweak.

    Interestingly, the developing story re Papua I posted has links back to the guy who trained at a paramilitary training camp in the Crimea then tried to go and fight there.

  197. lotocoti

    and tells an ANZAC story we’ve not heard before.

    Sounds like a Strayan version of The Crimson Field.

  198. JC

    God I love Monsanto. Everything they do is holly and loving. Everything!

    A more bountiful dividend harvest is in store for investors in Monsanto. Last Tuesday, the world’s No. 1 producer of genetically modified seeds sweetened its quarterly common payout by 14%, to 49 cents a share from 43 cents. The company has now boosted its distribution five times since the end of fiscal 2010 (its year ends on Aug. 31), for a cumulative increase of almost 85% over that stretch. The latest hike will put an additional $126 million in stockholders’ pockets annually, and it gives the shares a 1.7% current yield. Monsanto has paid a higher dividend every year since Pharmacia spun it off in August 2002.

    In June, Monsanto also announced a new, two-year, $10 billion share-repurchase authorization, its biggest buyback initiative ever (Barrons.com, “Monsanto Buyback Sets Stage for Higher Stock Price,” June 25). The plan includes a $6 billion near-term accelerated buyback program.

    Just owning shares in Monsanto automatically opens the gates of heaven and the Lord rewards the shareholders with an increase in the div payout and a larger share buyback.

  199. calli

    a bromance developing between Pirate Pete and Butch Gin.

    Unsavoury in the extreme, but expected. The Sod Couple.

  200. Oh come on

    Fisky,
    Your humility is noted, but you were well onto it days ago.

    This is true, as well.

  201. Leigh Lowe

    Fisky, so you’re saying the credentials oldsalt awarded himself are in tatters and his credibility will never recover?

    What credibility was that?
    Sunk on launching and straight to Davy Jones locker after about the second post he made.
    (The first one was totally incoherent).

  202. Just owning shares in Monsanto automatically opens the gates of heaven and the Lord rewards the shareholders with an increase in the div payout and a larger share buyback.

    Shareholders in Monsanto who made money out of the sale of Agent Orange to the US Army should be summarily rounded up, and sent to Vietnam at their own expense to meet with the victims of the chemical and their descendants. They should then be confronted (en masse) with Vietnam Veterans, both here and in the USA, who are living (and dying) with the effects of the chemical on their bodies.

  203. Oh come on

    You’re putting words in my mouth. Never have I mentioned the ICJ. Taking this to the ICJ would be a complete waste of time.

    No one said you’d mentioned the ICJ. The body referred to was the ICC (which no one said you’d mentioned, either). Or did you think the ICJ and ICC to be one and the same? Or you didn’t know of the ICC’s existence? Remind me again who doesn’t know their arse from their elbow.

  204. Oh come on

    MK50 pretended to be an authority and when exposed tried to dissemble and threaten to cover up for his lack of detailed knowledge on the issue.

    That may be how you wish to recollect the events of yesterday evening, but I suspect everyone else recollects differently.

  205. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    155mm high explosive ordinance, (sic)

    ordinance-An authoritative command or order. A custom or practice established by long usage.

    Compare ordnance – Military weapons collectively, along with ammunition and the equipment to keep them in good repair.

    Tsk, tsk, tsk, Numbers….

  206. Oh come on

    Gosh, the literacy level of educators these days is just appalling, isn’t it, ZK2A?

  207. Baldrick

    The Sod Couple … very good calli. 🙂

  208. Delta A

    MK50 pretended to be an authority

    No pretence involved… at least, not on the part of MK50. Why did that charlatan pick on one of the most informed (military wise) posters on the Cat?

  209. Grigory M

    Fisky, so you’re saying the credentials oldsalt awarded himself are in tatters and his credibility will never recover?

    What credibility was that?
    Sunk on launching and straight to Davy Jones locker after about the second post he made.
    (The first one was totally incoherent).

    FFS – last night’s effort was the Cone of Silence from both participants. Wet lettuce leaves at ten paces. A bit like watching Harry Kewell trying to play soccer – nothing there.

  210. cynical1

    Except Islam wants to be the latest gang that controls the world

    But does it?

    These people (like Hamas) have no interest in civilised society, only butchery.

    Is it like the Mafia? Some mob hitmen do it for dough, others like:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Strauss seem to take cruel pleasure.

    Every society has a small amount of sadists. Is that the attraction more
    than political gain?

    A bunch of Misanthropes finding company.

    The average person would take no pleasure in sawing of another’s head
    no matter what the reason.

    Here we have thousands who glory in it.

  211. srr

    “Senator Bernardi is a backbencher and his views do not represent the position of the government.”
    Tony Abbott

    There’s your problem, Mr Abbott

    +1

  212. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    God I love Monsanto. Everything they do is holly and loving. Everything!

    Speak for yourself, JC. I’ve read the contract you have to sign to grow genetically modified crops, using Monsanto products, and I wouldn’t touch Monsanto with a ten foot pole.

  213. Oh come on

    There was a high explosive ordinance let off by my local council recently when they changed the parking system on a main shopping street. Now it costs a fortune to park, and the inspectors are rabid. Affected residents probably will remain angry for a long spell, and most definitely intent on revenge.

  214. JC

    Well don’t touch them then Zulu. You’re not forced to sign up. Monsanto is helping feed the world.

  215. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Gosh, the literacy level of educators these days is just appalling, isn’t it, ZK2A?

    Oco – shocked and stunned, I am – shocked and stunned – from someone so quick to pick up others on spelling mistakes.

  216. Gab

    Every society has a small amount of sadists. Is that the attraction more
    than political gain?

    A bunch of Misanthropes finding company.

    The average person would take no pleasure in sawing of another’s head
    no matter what the reason.

    Here we have thousands who glory in it.

    They are a cult of fanatical killers with an insatiable blood lust and ought to be exterminated forthwith.

  217. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Well don’t touch them then Zulu. You’re not forced to sign up. Monsanto is helping feed the world.

    Not a simple as that, JC. Watch this space.

  218. JC

    Not a simple as that, JC. Watch this space.

    Why isn’t it that simple and watch what space eggsactly. Don’t tell me you’re an “organical” farmer!

  219. Leigh Lowe

    …. and tells an ANZAC story we’ve not heard before.

    Standby for their ABC’s perspective on the centenary of Gallipoli.
    We’ve got the feminist contribution tonight, which no doubt will be followed by the little known story of gay soldiers, then aboriginal soldiers and how enlisted unionists made their private school chinless-wonder officers look like fools.
    Then, as they become more emboldened, the LGBTI perspective will get a run.

  220. Tom

    Ros at 4.39pm explains that Saddam’s Baathist butchers have returned to fill the vacuum left by the American transvestite’s decision to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq:

    But the luvies, is that what you guys call them, will continue to operate as knowledge vacuums, smugly and vainly declaring it was all down to Bush. When they really make me sick is when they say, not that I approved of Saddam, but he kept all this horror under control. He and the Baathists were the same horror we are seeing now, but probably emboldened by the weak idiotic western leaders who are again abandoning the Kurds and the others.

    It seems somehow worse if you see the brutality as calculated and purposeful rather than religion gone mad. On the other hand however monstrous the actions, that they are the acts of reasoning beings makes them more beatable.

    Post of the day for mine.

  221. Woolfe

    Don’t forget the premiere of #anzacgirls … starting 8.30 tonight on ABC. Beautiful production and tribute to women of ANZAC

    @annabelcrabb What about Anzacs that chose to identify with neither sex? #outrage

  222. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Standby for their ABC’s perspective on the centenary of Gallipoli.

    I don’t think I have the energy to find out. It’s bound to be awful.

    It seems somehow worse if you see the brutality as calculated and purposeful rather than religion gone mad. On the other hand however monstrous the actions, that they are the acts of reasoning beings makes them more beatable.

    The trouble is, Ros, that it is both. They are purposeful in their madness. I just now watched them guarding the major damn they have now taken into their control. They know how important it is strategically to them and their prospects. They will act rationally to extract the most value from this holding. But they are also mad. They see people as either entirely with them, or highly disposable. And their reasons are, to them, the rational ones of a religion that brooks no opposition.

  223. lotocoti

    We’ll all be a little red-faced when it’s revealed that our crusty matelot friend was not only NOCQ and CNS back in the day, but also our other friend once gave him a life saving kidney transplant using nothing more than an old Gem razor blade, some used dental floss and a copy of Reader’s Digest Home Health Companion.

  224. calli

    Then, as they become more emboldened, the LGBTI perspective will get a run.

    And SSM…never forget SSM. It’ll be woven in somewhere between the Dardanelles and the Somme…

  225. Leigh Lowe

    As one who was a war correspondent in Vietnam, he smelt the burnt bodies of many kids blown apart, and feels the issue viscerally as well as intellectually.

    Nah.
    That was probably just chicken satay on the BBQ in the rooftop bar in Saigon.

  226. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I should add too that they shift from one mode to the other – merely soldiers in a battle, whose moves can be predicted and who can be amenable to negotiation – the next minute using terror to impose their religious will regardless of the consequences in either the short term or the long term (facing criminal charges being the least of them).

  227. john constantine

    There are two issues with genetically modified crops.

    First is the frankenfood thing, which is no personal concern to me, the majority of the gm food i eat comes in the form of corn syrup added to stuff i shouldn’t overindulge in anyway.

    Just about every australian that consumes packaged processed food has been guzzling gm food for years, without growing another head.

    Tthe reason i do not touch gm crops in the business is the structure of growing something that belongs to someone else, all the time.

    Growing gm crops is basically paying a fee to work for someone else for the year.

    Anything that goes wrong is your fault,and has to be fixed at your expense.

    Fees and charges are upfront, regardless of whether or not a profit is made,any profit has to be shared as well as the upfront costs–and all inputs have to be the full priced approved forms, no cheaper generics allowed.

    Herbicide resistance problems are the incentive to grow gm crops, but sheep are the alternative that suits me.

  228. Des Deskperson

    ‘ Beautiful production and tribute to women of ANZAC’

    We’ll see. From the shorts, however – and these are presumably some of the best bits – it looks like your typical ABC drama – earnest, stodgy and full of all the standard bourgeois progressive cliches about Australians at war, including those upper class Pommie twits gits making fun of simple Aussie girls who want to celebrate ANZAC Day.

  229. Delta A

    John Constantine, your comments at 7.21pm echo the sentiments of the farmers in our rural district. An isolated area, our producers have opted to remain GM free, which makes their produce very attractive to some overseas – particularly Japanese – markets.

    OTH, I appreciate JC’s comments, that improved agricultural species have played a huge part in reducing starvation around the world. It’s certainly a complex area with no clear right or wrong side of the debate.

  230. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Why isn’t it that simple and watch what space eggsactly. Don’t tell me you’re an “organical” farmer!

    No, I just try to keep chemical use to a minimum. Genetically modified canola was originally known as “round up resistant canola” – you can use a higher rate of herbicide (“Roundup’) to control weeds that have become resistant to normal rates. I prefer John Constantine’s method – the top jaw of a Merino sheep meeting the bottom jaw.

    The shitfight is contained in the legalities – I choose not to grow genetically modified canola. My neighbor may wish to go down that path. His canola seeds blow over the fence, and contaminate my non – genetically modified canola. Under the terms of the contract he signed, he is legally obliged to sue me for breaching Monsanto’s patent. (Monsanto themselves don’t get involved – they don’t need the negative publicity.) The onus is on me to PROVE I am not infringing Monsanto’s patent – and lawyers don’t work for nothing.

    The recent case here in the Wild West was extreme, in that the bloke involved was an organic farmer , but any farmer who chooses not to grow genetically modified crops may find himself in the same position.

    You might despise farmers, but some of us can make our own decisions….

  231. Gertrude

    The shitfight is contained in the legalities – I choose not to grow genetically modified canola. My neighbor may wish to go down that path. His canola seeds blow over the fence, and contaminate my non – genetically modified canola. Under the terms of the contract he signed, he is legally obliged to sue me for breaching Monsanto’s patent. (Monsanto themselves don’t get involved – they don’t need the negative publicity.) The onus is on me to PROVE I am not infringing Monsanto’s patent – and lawyers don’t work for nothing.

    This is the reason I thought that you wouldn’t touch it, Z. I have heard of this litigation. It’s nasty.

  232. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Fees and charges are upfront, regardless of whether or not a profit is made,any profit has to be shared as well as the upfront costs–and all inputs have to be the full priced approved forms, no cheaper generics allowed.

    In fact, you can only use Monsanto products, and they have been known to raise the price substantially, and from memory, until only recently, you had to buy fresh seed each year – no keeping the seed from previous years.

  233. calli

    There was, and perhaps still is, the issue of ‘Terminator’ seeds and their effects on the third world’s ability to feed itself with seed saved from one year to the next. Something completely different to GM but highly lucrative for seed producers.

  234. Ros

    Sorry about your pain numbers. Won’t argue with you about right to have an opinion.

    However I too don’t think groundhog day is the solution. Unfortunately one of the participants believes groundhog day is the way to go, that the last fifty years haven’t been a waste and that if necessary another fifty of the same thing makes sense. Hamas’s policy is, which is hardly a secret, that the craven cowardly Jew will eventually give in and go away, somewhere, occasionally they suggest into the sea. Not hard to fathom what that is code for. How does Israel deal with that?

    So , the change will have to come from Israel. They could move to exposing themselves by agreeing to Gaza having all restrictions lifted, even agree to Gazans working in Israel, as the majority wish to do. A big ask as the probability that Israelis will die is very high. And they will get no credit for allowing their children to be killed so no moral win possible as well.

    And they could take Martin Van Creveld’s advice, which they have done in part, build a high wall. His further advice was leave those settlers on the other side without Israeli military protecting them and fairly soon they will come scrambling home with their tails between their legs. He was more polite than that, just.

    But there is also the possibility that with the ME a system on the edge of chaos, factors may emerge that will allow Israel and the Palestinians to progress towards a stable and decent life for all. Eg other ME states reconciling with Israel.

    And UNRWA has to be abolished. Both in itself and for those who are attached to it, permanent refugee status and the refusal to let Palestinians to move on in any sense is what sustains it. It is in no way a solution to anything.

    What is your goal here. You are angry and hurt, yet you come here and say things that you know will offend, hence more anger and pain for you.

  235. JC

    If the sums for using Monsanto products don;’t work out then don’t use it. There are plenty of farmers who seem to be happy use their products. And synthetic biology, which is what they’re increasingly becoming involved with is how we’ll see increases in farming productivity.

  236. Infidel Tiger

    The shitfight is contained in the legalities – I choose not to grow genetically modified canola. My neighbor may wish to go down that path. His canola seeds blow over the fence, and contaminate my non – genetically modified canola. Under the terms of the contract he signed, he is legally obliged to sue me for breaching Monsanto’s patent. (Monsanto themselves don’t get involved – they don’t need the negative publicity.) The onus is on me to PROVE I am not infringing Monsanto’s patent – and lawyers don’t work for nothing.

    That’s not true.

    In fact the recent case in WA was the exact opposite of what you describe. The “organic farmer” sued the neighbouring farmer for contaminating his crop. He was funded by every green extremist outfit known to man.

    You better hope the appeal is not successful either or you are fucked. The green extremists want 10km barriers between properties that use pesticides, herbicides and GM crops. Guess which farmers will have to provide the barriers? Hint, it won’t be the lunatic high on mung beans driving his solar powered oxen.

    Using Monsanto products is a choice. If you don’t understand the concept of choice, then I’d like to lend you a neck tie and point you towards the ladies lavatory.

  237. JC

    The “organic farmer” sued the neighbouring farmer for contaminating his crop. He was funded by every green extremist outfit known to man.

    You better hope the appeal is not successful either or you are fucked.

    Interesting, so that’s how they’re now attacking industrialization. Get the name of the farmer having to endure the lawsuit, as some of us may want to contribute to his appeal costs.

  238. Andreas

    Tom wrote:

    Saddam’s Baathist butchers have returned to fill the vacuum left by the American transvestite’s decision to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq

    Obama is an appalling president, but saying he withdrew troops from Iraq before the job was done isn’t quite right. The job would simply never be done. The Americans could have stayed there another five or ten years and upon withdrawal what has happened would still have occurred. In fact it has happened before – when the British left Iraq in 1933 not long after their departure the Iraqis were slaughtering Christian Assyrians. See the Simele Massacre (just the tip of the iceberg).

    This was always going to happen whenever the Americans left. The “job” would never be done. It is true though that Obama’s arming of Syrian (Sunni) rebels was an obviously stupid thing to do and has made it so much worse. The Americans should have been arming the Christians.

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