A message from Denis Hart

The burden of suspicion has fallen on the minority Muslim community in Australia because of the actions of extremists. That is not fair, and we should not allow it to continue.

We should let the law enforcement authorities investigate and prosecute criminal behaviour, whether by people of faith or none. Our job as Australians is to build and strengthen relationships in local communities.

In a good community, we can empathise with our neighbours. We can empathise with Muslim people in our community that they are in a difficult spot because of the actions of a small number of extremists.

From an op-ed in The Australian.

Let us appeal to our common humanity before we condemn our differences. Most people want to live their lives in peace, earn a living, and enjoy the company of their family and friends.

Update: I see some very strong views in the thread. Very disappointing.

Here is another way of looking at the issue.

KKK - ISIS

This entry was posted in Australian Story. Bookmark the permalink.

745 Responses to A message from Denis Hart

  1. .

    Just hours ago I sent you a link to prominent Muslims doing exactly this, but apparently you don’t want to know. You seal yourself off from contradictory evidence to protect your prejudices.

    I have pointed out similar things – yet, straight to the forgettery.

  2. BilB

    You could have added an image of Catallaxy people who, in the same way, are not representative of Australians.

  3. JC

    You tiresome galloot, Bilby numbnut. Fuck off.

  4. oldsalt

    For those who have the time or inclination to research, Ustadz Abdurrahman Al Baghdadi, an Australian, founded Hizbut Tahrir in Indonesia in the 80s. Originally a refugee from South Lebanon, he remains a citizen of Oz and resides in RI where he’s influential in all things Caliphate and Jihad.

  5. JC

    Are we all done for now. Is the muzzomania finally outta the system? Let’s make this a muzzomania free weekend.

  6. Infidel Tiger

    Let’s make this a muzzomania free weekend.

    Only if they promise not spoil the long weekend with any jihad.

  7. calli

    Pull your head in, JC!

    Whoops…

  8. JC

    Calli

    Behave yourself or you’ll get a good spanking.

  9. cohenite

    Dot at beginning of this Chamberlain thread:

    Tough crowd, people on the open thread and here are calling all Muslims morally equivalent to the Nazis, which is obvious bullshit but good luck drumming sense into these people’s demented heads.

    On any map of the world with current strife shown, apart from Putin and Ukraine, islam is the central point.

    In every host country which has a growing % of muslims social strife and discord correlates with the % of muslims.

    There is no attempt anywhere in the islam world to reciprocate and tolerate alternative beliefs and creeds or, most tellingly, accept a secular social framework such as offered by S.116 of our Constitution.

    Even if we accept that a majority of muslims are moderate and wish to ‘fit in to a secular framework that majority do not confront and criticise the active minority which actively subverts the secular framework.

    Islam has destroyed the Twin Towers, a symbol of the future and the twin Buddha statutes, a symbol of the past.

    And so on, yet this arrogant bastard dot says I am demented for resisting and not wanting islam to have currency in my society. The Nazis were popularly elected at the time; not all Germans supported them but Germans as a whole bear collective responsibility for the Nazis; why shouldn’t they?

    And why shouldn’t all muslims bear responsibility for the atrocities committed in the name of islam?

  10. calli

    Promises, promises…. 😀

  11. JC

    And why shouldn’t all muslims bear responsibility for the atrocities committed in the name of islam?

    For the similar reason that we don’t have the sins of the father carry to the son.

  12. Oh come on

    On any map of the world with current strife shown, apart from Putin and Ukraine, islam is the central point.

    Why include this? It’s laughably wrong.

  13. cohenite

    For the similar reason that we don’t have the sins of the father carry to the son.

    You must be fucking kidding.

  14. cohenite

    Why include this? It’s laughably wrong.

    Well between your giggles and guffaws show me where I’m wrong.

  15. JC

    You must be fucking kidding.

    So you’d charge the 7 year old kid with offenses? Really?

  16. Baldrick

    1735099
    #1460775, posted on September 26, 2014 at 5:01 pm
    The KKK have not threatened the life of any Australian, unlike some Islamists.

    No, but have been complicit in one murder and suspected in another.

    From your link … A QUEENSLAND teacher who confessed to being a senior Ku Klux Klan …
    Enough said.

  17. Oh come on

    That 7 year old child is a victim too, cohenite.

  18. Alexis

    Putting something in a ‘meme’ doesnt make it true. Forgive me if this has been said before, but the KKK werent a Christian organisation. If you were to learn Arabic and visit mosques from Libya to Iraq you will hear mainstream clerics saying things that even the KKK would have thought over the top. Even public television in Muslim countries broadcasts childrens shows that spew out more Jew-hatred than the KKK ever did. Check out MEMRI to be brought up to speed.

  19. Oh come on

    What’s going on in the South China Sea, cohenite? What about the Korean peninsula? Central Africa? That’s just off the top of my head – there’s no doubt more.

  20. calli

    That 7 year old child is a victim too, cohenite.

    Yes. Poor little mite.

    But the parents should be flayed for exposing him to such horror.

  21. goatjam

    That 7 year old child is a victim too, cohenite.

    A victim of what exactly?

  22. Alexis

    While there is still lack of civilian liberty and much discrimination against non-Muslims in, say, Malaysia, it tends to be and issue of parochialism, is less violent and not expansionist or totalitarian.

    Thailand,Malaysia,Indonesia, China, Phillipines, Russia are all struggling with Islamist violence.

  23. Rudiau

    Id much prefer this classic beheading scene for JC..

    You win.

  24. Oh come on

    Indeed, calli. Some of the most reprehensible child abuse you’re ever likely to see. Not only has the boy’s father desensitised the child to horrific violence, he’s also pretty much guaranteed his young son’s life will be nasty, brutish and short.

  25. Leigh Lowe

    No one thinks the KKK is representative of Christianity.
    True.
    And why is that?
    Because Christians roundly reject KKK philosophy and actions.
    One could argue that the rejection of ISIS by (ahem) moderate Muslims has been muted at best.
    In fact condemnations are usually brief and tailgates very closely by a qualifying “but” …

  26. Oh come on

    A victim of what exactly?

    His father’s abuse, goatjam. Isn’t it obvious?

  27. Leo G

    You could have added an image of Catallaxy people who, in the same way, are not representative of Australians.

    The moral equivalence of Cats, the KKK and Islamic State in BilB’s parable of the cave with no fire.

  28. Rudiau

    For the similar reason that we don’t have the sins of the father carry to the son.

    Original Sin?

  29. Alexis

    What’s going on in the South China Sea, cohenite? What about the Korean peninsula? Central Africa?

    See above for the South China Sea, although of course there are myriad conflicts there.
    While Islamist violence rages from Libya onto the north-west down to the west then all the way to Kenya and back up in a continuous belt up to Egypt and consumes every country from there in a continuous line to Malaysia! Central Africa not immune with terrorism reaching more recently into Uganda.

    And Islamic terror plots represented pretty much everywhere else from Central America to India. I would note that nearly all the victims are Muslims by the way, which makes the blame-shifting and denial by Muslim academics and spokespeople all the more reprehensible.

  30. goatjam

    His father’s abuse, goatjam. Isn’t it obvious?

    I agree the answer is obvious. I don’t necessarily agree with your answer.

  31. Oh come on

    I didn’t deny that a great many – probably most – of the world’s armed conflicts have arisen due to Muslims fighting non-Muslims or Muslims they don’t like.

    However, to claim that all conflict in the world today is down to Islam (bar the situation in eastern Ukraine) is just silly. That’s what I was responding to.

  32. Oh come on

    I don’t necessarily agree with your answer.

    What do you consider my answer to be?

  33. What percentage of Australian muslims support ISIS? Serious question. I have no idea.
    Does anyone?

  34. goatjam

    Oh come on, you already know the answer to that question I’m sure. The answer is that he was a victim of his father and his unwavering belief in the teachings of Islam.

    It’s hardly rocket science.

  35. Alexis

    The German Cabinet turned out at a mass rally condemning anti-Jewish activity recently. When I see the leaders of a Muslim country doing something similar I will review my views

  36. Oh come on

    See above for the South China Sea

    See what? Islam has virtually nothing to do with the powderkeg tensions over the Spratleys, the Paracels and the Senkaku Islands. Nor in Korea. Nor in the neverending tribal conflicts in central and west Africa.

  37. Clam Chowdah

    Has this been posted yet?

    http://lettertobaghdadi.com

    An excellent initiative, aimed at those who seek to follow.

  38. Oh come on

    The answer is that he was a victim of his father and his unwavering belief in the teachings of Islam.

    A victim of his father and his father’s ideological extremism? Sure, I absolutely agree with that. Not sure what gave you the impression that I wouldn’t.

  39. Oh come on

    Not sure what point you’re trying to make, cohenite.

  40. jumpnmcar

    Geez!
    Just plugged into the Cat and find individual Liberty and personal responsibility is a foreign concept to some folks.
    What a hoooot !

  41. .

    Charging kids under 10 with crimes?

    What a load of fascist nonsense.

  42. Makka

    “What percentage of Australian muslims support ISIS? Serious question. I have no idea.
    Does anyone?”

    Wrong question.

    “What percentage of Australian muslims support ISIS sharia law?”

    Answer: All true believers of Islam -100%- support Sharia Law.

  43. Jeremy Steyr

    Islam will come to dominate the world far more than it does today.

    Not in the least because of the blinkered attitudes of the likes of Sinc.

    It is a shame that someone so perceptive in so many areas seems wilfully blind in this rather important one.

  44. jumpnmcar

    Answer: All true believers of Islam -100%- support Sharia Law.

    Oh yeh, and all true Christians comply with Leviticus right ?
    Bullshit.

  45. derka derka

    Between Dr Death Leyonhjelm and his gay marriage/eugenics/abortion/drugs enthusiasms, and Davidson with his islamic cheerleading, it’s pretty safe to say that this website has gone down the shitter.
    May as well read Slate/ Huffpo or Media matters.

  46. Oh come on

    Derka derka dials up the hysteria.

  47. Oh come on

    Davidson with his islamic cheerleading

    This is an embarrassingly pea-brained summation of Sinc’s position on the matter.

  48. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Just hours ago I sent you a link to prominent Muslims doing exactly this, but apparently you don’t want to know

    I don’t sit on this blog, or any other, all day, Demosthenes. So if I have missed your link to something in the enormous number of comments then I am sorry. I have just put up on the Open Forum a link to a report of a day of rejection of the ISIS fatwa against Australians, to be held in all many mosques. As I say there, it is a start. A late one, in my opinion, and we are not yet aware of the depth of the Koranic backing of this rejection.

    In Cordoba in Spain I admired the Grand Mosque and its beauty. I am not per se anti-Islamic. I am aware of the distinguished heritage of Islam and I see some common ground for recognition of this by Christians, civilisationsists and others. I strongly take Gab’s point of view regarding ‘modernising’ Islamic societies in the 5o’s, 6o’s and 7o’s. I noted this myself before Gab took up the point and pursued it. They were working. Then a radical fundamentalism crept in which should have been firmly rejected early on, and which should be rejected now.

    I don’t particularly ‘talk nice’. I see straight.

  49. Makka

    “Oh yeh, and all true Christians comply with Leviticus right ?”

    Possibly not. But all western Christians ARE obliged to comply with their national laws. Or suffer the consequences , which we well know.

    Which set of laws do you prefer?

    Have a read , dickhead.

    http://www.answering-islam.org/NonMuslims/rights.htm

  50. Leo G

    Islam will come to dominate the world far more than it does today.

    That’s only if you buy Da’wah for Dhimmies.

  51. nilk

    Numan Haider had a part time job and was a student (at Chisholm Tafe), like many other 18 year old in Australia,.
    Making him a tram conductor probably wouldn’t have helped.

    This.

    Given the appalling standards of our schooling and the lack of solid opportunities for the youngsters – coupled with our decadent, hedonistic and fame-obsessed culture*, what would a young man who comes from a community with strong foundations find appealing?

    What are his opportunities? His parents are nice and moderate, so the islam he has grown up with is nice and moderate, too.

    But then he has this ISIS thing, coupled with the years of news and views from over the ME and what’s happening to muslims, and a bit of investigation is called for.

    So he reads his quran, spends more time at the mosque talking to the mullahs and imams and clerics and other assorted elders. His parents are happy because he’s paying attention to their faith rather than going down the Western path, the elders are happy because they’ve got the malleable young blood, and fighting is a young man’s game.

    It’s a recipe for success.

    If our own culture was more robust then I doubt we’d be having this discussion. As far as I’m concerned, the history of the most successful civilisations in the world are those built upon Western ideals and traditions. From the Greeks, to the Romans, to the Jews and Christians, we set the bar high.

    The socialists and communists have worked hard to drag us all down and drown us in bureaucracy so that they can sit in their ivory towers built upon the bones of bourgeois and kulaks while sipping their Chateau du Prole (full-bodied red with an unmistakable bouquet) and dictating what’s next down the memory hole.

    I’m not a business-owner. I don’t have the patience to deal with the regulations, but for those Cats that are, how much more successful would you be without the red tape? Without creeping credentialism pushing up costs and thereby the cost of living, what is to look forward to?

    It just cost me $253 to renew my driver’s licence. Two hundred and fifty three dollars to get a bit of plastic with an updated photograph of myself on it that will last ten years. Given all the technology available, why is the cost going up rather than down?

    If I’m a strong supporter of my country and my culture yet have doubts about its current vitality, what then for a disaffected member of my country whose ancestry followed a different path?

    So in that sense, I guess Sinc’s idea of the free-market consumerist society can win, but not in its current state.

    * “decadent, hedonistic and fame-obsessed culture” Please note that this is not the whole of our culture – far from it. It’s unfortunately how I see the most visible parts in the media, and that’s where the young people (in general) like to play. A lot of parents don’t see what their children are learning at school, or else learned the same lessons and just don’t know what they’re missing out on when it comes to our history and civilisation. In the event that some do get a hint that it’s not quite right they don’t know what to do and are often too cowed to make a stand.

    /rant off

  52. nilk

    Oh yeah, and the only comment I’m going to make about the Klan ekwivalency thing is that I honestly don’t care. I go to Q Society meetings, so I’m already beyond the pale. At those shindigs people wear their white blankets and wave their klan kards around.

    I put that on a par with this in the offensive stakes and ignored. I prefer a good argument rather than a tacky meme.

  53. Oh come on

    Apparently responding to a call from ISIS to kill Australian infidels, an 18 year old arms himself with a knife, goes to a police station, and gets stabby. He’s predictably taken out by the police.

    News today – hundreds of openly grieving Muslims gather for the wannabe cop-killer’s funeral. Yes, I can understand his immediate family. But a large chunk of the community in tears? Why? Seems a bit Trayvon Martinesque to me.

    The optics don’t look good, really, do they.

  54. calli

    Oh yeh, and all true Christians comply with Leviticus right ?
    Bullshit.

    Yep, you got it right Jump. No Christian need comply with “Leviticus” in any way, shape or form. That’s part of the reason why the a Gospel was such good news.

    Not so sure about Sharia though. Doesn’t sound too good to me.

  55. Jeremy Steyr

    Jumpnmcar.

    A Christian who doesn’t comply with Leviticus is like almost all Christians for the last 2000 years.

    A Muslim who does not believe all earthly law should be inspired by sharia is an apostate.

    More idiotic false comparisons. When did Australians get so stupid?

  56. rickw

    “Let us appeal to our common humanity before we condemn our differences. Most people want to live their lives in peace, earn a living, and enjoy the company of their family and friends.”

    Lebanese Muslims chose death and destruction over life and liberty twice in two generations. First in Lebanon, and now apparently in Australia. What is your explanation for that? Even 1970’s Australian immigration had them pegged as a group with serious social issues with a poor likelihood of successful integration into Australian Society, but Malcom Fraser overrode them.

    You are making the classic and deadly mistake of projecting your values on to others. I sat down in Afghanistan to drink sweet tea with some perfectly charming Muslims, however, these same people would kill their sister in a heartbeat if she brought “shame” to their family. They would have also killed me in a heartbeat if the situation demanded, and they would have thought no more of it than slaughtering a goat.

    There is a term in the Old Testament “a stiff necked people”. This perfectly describes Muslims, which is hardly surprising since they are very much an Old Testament peoples, Mohammed didn’t bring a revolution in thinking and belief and COMPASSION in the way that Christ did, he simply provided structure and organisation to converting others to Islam at the point of a sword and a licencing system for the robbery, rape and murder of others.

    It is a particularly strange view that Islam isn’t the problem when peoples separated by distance and time have read the same book, absorbed the beliefs within it, and then commenced to engage in exactly the same behaviour – violent Jihad, all over the space of 1400 years. Islam isn’t the problem at all is it?

    Perhaps a Buddhist Monk said it best: “you can feel sorry for a rabid dog, but you are not going to let it into your house”. We have let the rapid dog into our house under the gross assumption that our lifestyle and culture would reign over theirs and that they would become one with us, it clearly hasn’t, leaving beautiful Sydney and a land of opportunity to go and parade grown men through the desert in their underwear and then shoot them in the back of the head?

    It takes a stiff necked peoples to do that.

  57. cohenite

    Not sure what point you’re trying to make, cohenite.

    Ok, very honest of you.

    And

    Answer: All true believers of Islam -100%- support Sharia Law.

    Oh yeh, and all true Christians comply with Leviticus right ?
    Bullshit.

    The proportion of muslims who agree with sharia is almost 100%.

    In 2008 professor Riaz Hassan published his research on being a Muslim in his book, Inside Muslim Minds. Riaz interviewed 6400 Muslims from 7 Muslim countries and found that nearly all of them agreed strongly with the proposition that Muslim societies must be based on the Koran and sharia law.

    Sharia law means there is no separation between church and state. Sharia law means the Koran is the ultimate source of legal authority not the secular parliaments of the Western nations where growing populations of Muslims are living.

    I mean how hard is that to understand; nearly impossible given the leader on this thread it seems. The fact is the definition of the moderate muslim isn’t what most Muslims believe. It’s what most liberals believe that Muslims believe.

    Islam is an existential threat to Western secular democracy; and yet we have leading spokespersons advocating some sort of arrangement with that.

    For me islam isn’t the problem; the average punter knows what islam is, what it is doing and its various methods; the problem is the political class and intelligentsia who confuse their sense of moral superiority with sense and reality.

  58. Infidel Tiger

    The optics don’t look good, really, do they.

    I laughed heartily when one of the mourners weeped “you don’t shoot someone for making a mistake”!

    And to think that old poof Khomeini said ” there are no jokes in Islam”. The whole religion is a joke, you stupid old fruit.

  59. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Chowdah, my friend. That is an excellent link and shows that some Islamic scholars are working on the problem. All power to their thinking:

    Now God sent the Prophet Muhammad ? as a mercy to all worlds: ‘We did not send you, except as a mercy to all the worlds.’ (Al-Anbiya’, 22: 107). This is true for all time and place. The Prophet was sent as mercy to people, animals, plants, to the heavens and to subtle beings—no Muslims
    disagree about this. It is a general and unconditional statement taken from the Qur’an itself.
    However, the phrase, ‘sent with the sword’ is part of a Hadith that is specific to a certain time and
    place which have since expired. Thus it is forbidden to mix the Qur’an and Hadith in this way, as it
    is forbidden to mix the general and specific, and the conditional and unconditional.

    I am happy to sup with Muslims who accept this in their hearts, and who listen to their scholars. I have no objection to their religion if it is scholarly and interpretive, but I do have a problem with current interpretations. I would dearly love to see a general interpretation that frees women from the servitude of headcloths and lets little girls in Muslim schools in Australia play netball running free with the wind in their hair.

    Scholars, is that too much to ask? I think Islam has much to offer if you carefully work on your texts; as Christians so diligently work on theirs.

  60. Makka

    “and that they would become one with us”

    Multiculturalism put paid to that. After Gough there was never any compulsion to assimilate -“become one with us”. PC then ensured we cannot complain or now even express openly (18c) our grievances with the adverse outcomes from this insidious Leftist set of strategies.

  61. Snoopy

    I laughed heartily when one of the mourners weeped “you don’t shoot someone for making a mistake”!

    I laughed too. The mistake was obviously not making a success of the attack.

  62. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    but I do have a problem with current interpretations

    For clarification, I have no problem with the sort of interpretation offered by the scholars above.

    I hope they keep working on their texts in this way.

    In my view, religion is very important to mankind. It has shaped who we are.
    We are all brothers and sisters together in this strange world; we all die.
    Wherever people find comfort and explanation, I am happy, as long as freedom is there too.

  63. one old bruce

    Who told you there was any link between KKK and Christianity Sinc? Is it the burning cross?

    You aren’t much up on your Scottish history are you?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiery_cross
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_burning

    It was probably originally a pagan Thor hammer.

  64. Leo G

    News today – hundreds of openly grieving Muslims gather for the wannabe cop-killer’s funeral. Yes, I can understand his immediate family. But a large chunk of the community in tears? Why? Seems a bit Trayvon Martinesque to me.
    The optics don’t look good, really, do they.

    Hopefully, the attendees have emphased that they were there to support Numan Haider’s family and not his terrorist actions.

  65. Jeremy Steyr

    Islam is a threat. How hard is it for some sheltered fools to realise that? Read the damn Koran ffs.

  66. goatjam

    Hopefully, the attendees have emphased that they were there to support Numan Haider’s family and not his terrorist actions.

    Yeah, except those same “attendees” don’t seem to manifest when there is a non-muslim victim and his family at the centre of attention.

  67. Demosthenes

    What’s going on in the South China Sea, cohenite? What about the Korean peninsula? Central Africa?

    No, no. Islam is the sole source of all evil in the world. All terrorism is Islamic. All strife in the world is due to Islam. Saying otherwise means you’re a cultural Marxist.

  68. Talleyrand

    It was probably originally a pagan Thor hammer.

    It’s a Thor point with Thync.

    Thank you and good night. Try the fish of the day, and don’t forget to tip your waitress.

  69. goatjam

    What’s going on in the South China Sea, cohenite? What about the Korean peninsula? Central Africa?

    No, no. Islam is the sole source of all evil in the world.

    The difference of course is that the participants in these regional conflicts are not exporting their grievances throughout the world as a whole. I can’t say that I have noticed ethnic Koreans/Chinese stabbing cops in Victoria and plotting jihad in the name of their regional grievances but do feel free to point out anything that I may have missed.

  70. Giffy

    nilk at 7.38pm
    “… if our own culture was more robust ….”
    You are right.
    Everything you wrote; the whole truth.

  71. jumpnmcar

    Which set of laws do you prefer?

    Have a read , dickhead.

    Muzzies under your bed Makka ?
    Poor bugger’s covered in your piss ya bed wetter.

  72. Demosthenes

    So if I have missed your link to something in the enormous number of comments then I am sorry.

    It’s not just my link you ‘missed’ (despite responding to the comment that contained the link, ha!) it’s all the other reporting of Muslims doing what you repeatedly claim Muslims don’t do.

    As I say there, it is a start.

    It’s not a start, it’s a continuation of what’s been happening the whole time, but you don’t want to know about it! Even now, confronted with undeniable evidence that you are as wrong as can be, you won’t admit your lies.

    I see straight.

    You walk crooked.

  73. Demosthenes

    I can’t say that I have noticed ethnic Koreans/Chinese stabbing cops in Victoria and plotting jihad in the name of their regional grievances

    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

  74. goatjam

    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

    But of course. It is all our fault after all.

  75. Notafan

    There really isn’t any point to reinterpretating the texts, either they are from God or they are not.
    Christians can be right, muslims can be right or they can be both wrong but they can’t be both right.
    Mohammed if he existed and I’m assuming he did was one of those clever charismatic men with the gift of the gab.
    He offered what was naturally attractive to local tribes; the right to make war take slaves and booty and have sex with whatever creature they had power over.
    All in the context of being God’s will with a veneer of holiness.
    If it didn’t go so well in this life don’t worry it will be even better in the next as long as you are a muslim man.
    What is the promise given to muslim women? I’ve only ever read they get to wander around reading the koran.
    I absolutely don’t know how religious verses that say ‘even the trees and stones will cry out there is a Jew behind me kill him’ can be reinterpreted
    Are they going to change that to there is a dried grape behind me eat him?
    Only liberal westerners believe the bit about the 72 raisins.

  76. Tom

    In my view, religion is very important to mankind. It has shaped who we are.
    We are all brothers and sisters together in this strange world; we all die.
    Wherever people find comfort and explanation, I am happy, as long as freedom is there too.

    As an agnostic, that very closely intersects with my own worldview on matters ethereal, Elizabeth, and reflects the live-and-let-live tolerance I was given by the gentle man who was my father.

  77. Adam

    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

    Oh we did, mate. We did.

  78. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Demosthenes:

    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

    Hmm. How come, then, islamic terrorists have committed 23,914 terrorist attacks since 9/11 against every single country they border, inhabit or live in? Including Paraguay?

    Have not noticed Paraguayans messing in the middle east, have you?

    Last month the stats were:

    August, 2014
    Jihad Attacks: 222

    Countries: 27

    Suicide attacks: 24

    Killed: 4573

    Injured: 2287

    Nine times out Vietnam war killed in one month. Of the 6,860 people killed and wounded last month, how many were messing in their affairs enough to deserve what was done to ’em?

    Was each country in which attacks occurred – all 27 – messing in their affairs?

    or is this a pathology of violence expressed by the ideological Wahabist and Salafist segments of the religion?

  79. Leigh Lowe

    I am trying to visualise a situation where an Australian KKK operative (if such a beast exists) tries to prune some limbs off a couple of coppers with a machete and wears 9mm of metal.
    OK.
    Next I am trying to visualise a bunch of Christians waving fists at cameras and marching in the streets in support of said ventilated KKK operative.
    Nup … not getting it.
    Where are you trying to take us with this trail of breadcrumbs Sinc?

  80. Leo G

    Islam is a threat. How hard is it for some sheltered fools to realise that? Read the damn Koran ffs.

    The Quran is a difficult read. It’s a book of disjoint and contradictory memes.

  81. Notafan

    Possibly because he made it up as he went along

  82. Makka

    jumpnmcar
    #1460967, posted on September 26, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    Thought it might be too difficult for you. I’ll dumb it down more for you next time.

  83. Leo G

    I can’t say that I have noticed ethnic Koreans/Chinese stabbing cops in Victoria and plotting jihad in the name of their regional grievances
    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

    And there weren’t any Koreans or Han Chinese in Australia during the Korean War (which hasn’t formerly ended BTW)?

  84. Infidel Tiger

    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

    Bet you wish you hadn’t press submit on that one. Yikes!

  85. Leigh Lowe

    I saw a bloke on TV today called Timmy Soutphommasane.
    They asked him what he thought about (fabricated) attacks by red-necks on “innocent” mussies.
    He was against it in a big way.
    For some reason – I don’t know why – I expected him to say “agnostic”.

  86. tomix

    Hard to tell how much of a Christian organisation the KKK was, but…..
    Heavyweight king Jack Johnson did deliver a speech on the Golden Rule to the Danville, Illinois chapter of the Ku Klux Klan.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18477_the-5-most-badass-and-possibly-insane-athletes-all-time.html

  87. 2dogs

    Judaism and Christianity have had similar problems.

    A religion is two things, on one hand an institution that owns assets like places of worship and employs clergy, and on the other the life philosophy held in the adherent’s minds.

    When Christianity in the past behaved like Islam is doing now, it was primarily because the institutions of Christian religion were at fault; they were at best irresponsible and at worst corrupt. Yes, many Christians of those times had bigoted views, but it was mainly institution failings that fuelled those views. We don’t blame the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition on the ordinary Christians of the time, but on the misdeeds of both church and secular authorities.

    We shouldn’t assume that Islam now is really any different in that regard. I think too many commenters here are quick to blame the ordinary Muslim now, where they wouldn’t blame the past ordinary Christian. Whether from fair-mindedness or learning from experience, it is better that we consider that it is actually Islamic institutions at fault, not the common Muslim.

  88. I think too many commenters here are quick to blame the ordinary Muslim now, where they wouldn’t blame the past ordinary Christian. Whether from fair-mindedness or learning from experience, it is better that we consider that it is actually Islamic institutions at fault, not the common Muslim.

    Fair point. But the implications are that you have a 3-4 generation problem to deal with, after you eliminate or correct the institutional problems.

  89. Notafan

    Yeah but the church is a hierarchy and islam isn’t.
    I don’t blame muslims btw. I just think islam is fundamentally flawed, you can join but you can never leave, it benefits the strong and preys on the weak, it rationalises wars of aggression, rape and plunder as morally good.
    Why are dogs bad and cats okay, for example ?

  90. Fisky

    Possibly because Australians aren’t involving themselves in Korean or Chinese disputes!

    And yet we don’t hear much from Iraqi and Syrian Christian suicide bombers, do we? It’s a bit odd, given that they have suffered far more from the side-effects of Western intervention than their Muslim neighbours. The Iraqi Christian population is down by 2/3 since 2003, a genocide.

    How come they aren’t flying planes into buildings like the Muslims are?

  91. cohenite

    No, no. Islam is the sole source of all evil in the world. All terrorism is Islamic. All strife in the world is due to Islam. Saying otherwise means you’re a cultural Marxist.

    Or in your case demos, a smartarse. Your comments on islam are as useful as your comments on that other existential lie, global warming.

    In fact the world seems to suffering from a surfeit of eschatology. Islam is a death cult and underpinning AGW is a misanthropy which spills over into a death-wish for others.

    AGW has cost the world trillions and for no purpose or meaning. Maybe some of the money savvy supporters of the rights of muzzies here can do a calculation on what islam has cost the world since 9/11.

  92. stackja

    Notafan
    #1461017, posted on September 26, 2014 at 8:47 pm
    Yeah but the church is a hierarchy and islam isn’t.
    I don’t blame muslims btw. I just think islam is fundamentally flawed, you can join but you can never leave, it benefits the strong and preys on the weak, it rationalises wars of aggression, rape and plunder as morally good.
    Why are dogs bad and cats okay, for example ?

    Welcome to the Hotel Islam California
    Last thing I remember, I was
    Running for the door
    I had to find the passage back
    To the place I was before
    “Relax, ” said the night man,
    “We are programmed to receive.
    You can check-out any time you like,
    But you can never leave!

  93. 2dogs

    Yeah but the church is a hierarchy and islam isn’t.

    Structures of accountability might be weak/non existent in Islamic institutions, but I would suggest they are eminently buildable.

    There is only one Kabba, and all Muslims make reference to it. Establishing the Kabba as a centre of accountability and governance would be a great place to start.

  94. GP

    The problem with the KKK/ISIL meme is that more than a few would happily impute the first photo to Christianity but would never impute the second to Islam. Take a straw poll of a typical Q&A panel and audience and see if I’m correct.

  95. Notafan

    2dogs
    Islamic state are reportedly intending to destroy the kaaba, they claim it is idolatry, worshipping a stone and Saudi Arabia have stepped up security as a result
    I’m confused.

  96. Demosthenes

    Your comments on islam are as useful as your comments on that other existential lie, global warming.

    Thanks, that’s quite the compliment, coming from a crank like you.

  97. The Quiet Farmer

    For a Christian, the good news is God reached down to us when we were His enemies and by Jesus death and resurrection opened a way for mankind to come back into a relationship with Him.
    From what I’ve read of what the Koran teaches it doesn’t appear to offer much unless you do a lot of killing of infidel enemies, who appear to be anybody who opposes the prophet.
    Last time I read the bible it didn’t appear to make a big deal of killing people who disagreed with it; that is to be left up to God at the end.
    To me it seems to be a reasonably large point of differentiation.

  98. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    it’s all the other reporting of Muslims doing what you repeatedly claim Muslims don’t do.

    As Philippa pointed out to Sinc, Demosthenes, way back up thread, there has been very little public and obvious attention to denying the validity of ISIS for Muslims. I spoke of such things too – of the requirement in the current context for clear public denunciations. You conveniently ignore that whole element to this debate when you point to some minor statements etc. that may have been ongoing. Where a major effort is made, as soon as I heard of it, I have applauded it.

    You also descend to personal attack, saying I am lying etc. Your other name isn’t Grigory is it, by any chance? If so, then I regard you as a stalker of particular women here who for some reason you regard as defenseless fair game in an exercise of sheer trolling, and I will refuse to engage with you. I am sick of this sort of behaviour towards me (and others) on the Cat. If you are merely making a point, then please make it more politely.

    If I missed a link of yours, wherever it was embedded, I have already apologized for that and explained that my time to blog is very limited; a reason I also offer to Dot if he feels I missed something.

    The Koran, as noted just above by a commenter, is full of seeming contradictions, which I regard a hopeful sign, because scholars can work on interpreting these contradictions in a manner that points towards modernity. A ray of hope, in my opinion. Just a ray. Which I am calling as I see it – straight.

    My coal-mining grandfather was my source of inspiration, Tom. A gentle uneducated man who called himself by the archaic old term ‘free thinker’; a man whom I knew for far too short a time before he died. A man who headed onto the beaches of Normandy for freedom’s sake and was never the same physically after that.

  99. nilk

    Protesting in Melbournistan today, lefties don’t do irony.

  100. Zippy The Younger

    Islam is a threat. How hard is it for some sheltered fools to realise that? Read the damn Koran ffs.

    The Quran is a difficult read. It’s a book of disjoint and contradictory memes.

    let me help you out here!

    A simple koran

    The koran has been deliberately obfuscated to hide its message. It is ordered by length of verse, whereas originally it was one epic story of the prophets adventures as told to the prophet by the archangel Gabriel and er… written by the prophet.

    Unless one knows how to reorder the koran into the right order it makes little sense, a random jumble of contradictory verses and stories..

    You can either hunt down the details of how to re-order the koran into its original story on the net or just spring for the book above which does it for you and adds a bit of context from the hadiths.

    One could rightfully ask why at the time they felt the need to re-order the koran by length of verse which makes it incomprehensible. When you read the koran as it was originally written and know the context from the hadiths as people in his time would have, its pretty obvious why it was made difficult to understand.

    Secondly one could rightfully ask if the koran is the perfect word of god, why does it contradict itself?

    Again if you know the context of the meccan period and the medina period the answer is again obvious, and so the keepers of the faith explain that the later medina period verses abrogate ie over-rule the earlier meccan verses. The later verses were more appropriate for the times or removing the double speak, the prophet met with unimaginable success with his medinan activities whereas the earlier meccan approach did not work at all and so while they sound great they are abrogated by the later verses which don’t sound so good to non-muslims. Again there are instructions about which verses abrogate which verses on the internet.

    Strangely enough since the koran is ordered by length of verse only the keepers of the faith, unless one had enough context, knew which verses were the earlier ones or the later ones.

    As it stands one can give the koran to non-muslims and the likelihood of them having a clue as to what the hell it is on about is close to zero.

  101. .

    derka derka
    #1460927, posted on September 26, 2014 at 7:21 pm
    Between Dr Death Leyonhjelm and his gay marriage/eugenics/abortion/drugs enthusiasms, and Davidson with his islamic cheerleading, it’s pretty safe to say that this website has gone down the shitter.
    May as well read Slate/ Huffpo or Media matters.

    Um yes…you might want to check which parties actually sit to the left of Leyonhjelm regarding abortion…and really – marijuana legalisation is like signing up to the Nation of Islam and Communist party? Huh?

    This site has attracted some fascist cranks in the past few months.

  102. Zippy The Younger

    There is also the Abridged Koran with the duplicate stories removed, order restored and some context.

  103. Tel

    The koran has been deliberately obfuscated to hide its message. It is ordered by length of verse, whereas originally it was one epic story of the prophets adventures as told to the prophet by the archangel Gabriel and er… written by the prophet.

    I thought that making any change at all (even the slightest thing) was outlawed?!?

  104. Demosthenes

    You also descend to personal attack, saying I am lying etc.You also descend to personal attack, saying I am lying etc.

    It’s not an attack to point out the truth. You explicitly lied to us, in order to advance your rhetoric. That’s not cool, and I will call it out.

    If you are merely making a point, then please make it more politely.

    Do you know where you are? Have you read the Cat before? Politeness is not a priority.

    The fact is, you’ve been shown up and you don’t like it, so now you’re pouting. Go ahead, I didn’t really expect facts to convince you anyway.

  105. Zippy The Younger

    I thought that making any change at all (even the slightest thing) was outlawed?!?

    Interesting isn’t it. But they didn’t change a word, just the order.

  106. Tel

    And there weren’t any Koreans or Han Chinese in Australia during the Korean War (which hasn’t formerly ended BTW)?

    And anyway, Korea was on our side in that war!

  107. Tel

    Interesting isn’t it. But they didn’t change a word, just the order.

    Religion and law are one and the same… always a way around it if you want to find a way.

    That’s why literal interpretation of any religious text is irrelevant, because people can bullshit themselves to an infinite degree. Islam is whatever the faithful decide it should be, no different to Democracy really.

  108. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    You explicitly lied to us, in order to advance your rhetoric.

    Grigory? I have not ‘lied’ about anything. My ‘rhetoric’? My points were exactly those made by many others, including Philippa. You are trolling.

    I refuse to engage with you.

  109. Notafan

    This news item was linked at uthy’s Facebook page, I’m getting the impression that the school is operating as a defacto madrassa but with the benefit of taxpayer’s money
    It’s a bit vague really

    This story is a bit of a mess

  110. Zippy The Younger

    Islam is whatever the faithful decide it should be, no different to Democracy really.

    Islam is what ever the keepers of the faith decide it is, the laity have no say in it. Once you are introduced to the original story it is a magnet to a certain type of character who can see the potential and possibilities.

    I stole the word from someone on the cat, but islam is a thugocracy.

  111. whyisitso

    And anyway, Korea was on our side in that war!

    No, we were on South Korea’s side during that war. North Korea was the enemy.

  112. Notafan

    Doesn’t it go, the koran is a miracle because mohammed said so and mohammed is a prophet because the koran said so?

  113. Tel

    Zippy, I’m a Libertarian, all civilization is a protection racket, we are haggling over prices here.

  114. Tel

    No, we were on South Korea’s side during that war. North Korea was the enemy.

    We weren’t fighting against a piece of land.

  115. Zippy The Younger

    Doesn’t it go, the koran is a miracle because mohammed said so and mohammed is a prophet because the koran said so?

    There is only one god. The prophet is the messenger of god.
    How do we know? because god told his messenger to tell you that and so it must be true… oh and the messenger has some friends with nice swords to back that statement up.

    check out the saudi flag.

  116. cohenite

    Thanks, that’s quite the compliment, coming from a crank like you.

    Actually I’m a demented crank thank you; like alarmists the dhimmis resort to insult and declaration. As is said demos your position on both AGW and islam demonstrates the overlap in the psychology of both groups within the West.

  117. Notafan

    Thankyou Zippy, I’ve heard they are rather fond of swords in Saudi.

  118. Yeah but the church is a hierarchy and islam isn’t.

    Eh, only the deadwood in the church is hierarchical.

    This site has attracted some fascist cranks in the past few months.

    Bit rich coming from a supporter of the fascist regime in Ukraine.

  119. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Tel, thanks for the Not-in-my-name link.
    It is very positive to see this sort of groundswell.
    Why on earth isn’t this discussed on ‘our’ ABC in Q & A instead of the whining?

  120. .

    Driftforge
    #1461142, posted on September 26, 2014 at 10:12 pm
    Yeah but the church is a hierarchy and islam isn’t.

    Eh, only the deadwood in the church is hierarchical.

    This site has attracted some fascist cranks in the past few months.

    Bit rich coming from a supporter of the fascist regime in Ukraine.

    Stop watching RussiaToday, FFS.

  121. Notafan

    Nilk, I can’t open your linky. I hope you have time to give us a report on the protest sometime.

  122. whyisitso

    We weren’t fighting against a piece of land.

    South Korea were fighting against North Korea. The latter had the totalitarian dictatorship of China on its side, with assistance from the Sovier Union. We were part of a UN-backed coalition supporting the South Koreans.

  123. Zippy The Younger

    Yeah but the church is a hierarchy and islam isn’t.

    islam seems to be a chaos of competing fascists and their armies. Quite a few empires have worn the mantle of keeper of the faith and the phenomenal wealth and power that comes with it.

  124. Stop watching RussiaToday, FFS

    What is this Russia Today you keep speaking of ?

  125. Notafan

    I noticed that the Aga Khan does very nicely out of his little slice of islam.

  126. rickw

    Judaism and Christianity have had similar problems.

    Not lasting 1400 years.

  127. Tel

    Why on earth isn’t this discussed on ‘our’ ABC in Q & A instead of the whining?

    They have some sort of long standing demarcation agreement to leave the ethnic stuff to SBS, while the ABC get the self-obsessed socialist windbags. Without law & order such as this, the universe would fly apart.

  128. Zippy The Younger

    I noticed that the Aga Khan does very nicely out of his little slice of islam.

    One could look at the koran and its supporting works as a how to setup and run the islamic franchise manual.

  129. Notafan

    I sometimes call it the world domination handbook
    btw another of uthy ‘s mates said the officer should have gone for a trunk shot but chose to shoot Haider in the head to make sure that the young brother died.
    The fact that the shot would have been taken while the officer was being stabbed was not considered.
    The muslim community must have circulated that detail, at least they didn’t go as far as Bob Ellis in suggesting that the officer ask Haider to move a bit so he could shoot him in the leg.
    I don’t think that some people think the way we think.
    There is no mea culpa in islam.

  130. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Without law & order such as this, the universe would fly apart.

    Thanks for the reminder, Tel. I had forgotten about the New Physics. 🙂

  131. Leo G

    The koran has been deliberately obfuscated to hide its message. It is ordered by length of verse, whereas originally it was one epic story of the prophets adventures as told to the prophet by the archangel Gabriel and er… written by the prophet.

    The prophet was illiterate, so not “written by the Prophet” but passed on by word of mouth.

  132. David Brewer

    “No one thinks these people (Ku Klux Klansmen) are representative of Christians.
    So why do so many think that these people (ISIS warriors) are representative of Muslims?”

    One reason may be that there are the dozens of similar bloodthirsty and belligerent “Islamist” movements all over the world, all appealing to the same numerous exhortations in Islamic texts to wage religious war and exact brutal punishments. The reactions of “mainstream” Islam to ISIS – silence, yes-but arguments, whingeing, and taqiyya-type condemnations that dissolve under analysis – give further credence to the idea that ISIS is at least winked at by official Islam.

    By contrast, where are the Christian clergymen prepared to defend or even condone the KKK? Where are the scores of other white supremacist organisations throughout Christendom?

    Sure, many Muslims are virtuous, generous and loving people, and one should always try to deal with others without prejudice. But it is no accident that Islamic countries are intolerant, discriminatory, faction-ridden, and violent. More than with other religions, these features arise from core messages in the sacred texts of Islam, including a refusal to separate religion from the State, application of the death penalty for apostasy, and exhortations to subdue unbelief.

  133. mizaris

    The koran is a self serving diatribe written by a misogynist, bisexual to validate his behaviour. He enforced his will with the sword and his followers have continued, and are continuing, this behaviour even now in the 21st century.

  134. Giffy

    “…… Where are you trying to take us with this trail of breadcrumbs Sinc?”
    There’s a good question. Maybe the trail leads to Table Talk where Ellis will bless the Ku Klux Klan comparison. It’s right up his alley. He does.. extreme/outlandish/weird.

    Though he doesn’t do self-righteous.

  135. srr

    The Age tells us –


    ISIL ‘being used to stir political fear’

    Nick Toscano
    Beheadings ‘no more horrific’ than actions of West’s armies: Islamic conference organiser

    …mind you, I don’t find that as horrific as how many Atheists continue to equate Christians with Klansmen, while also staunchly defending Islamists, AND how few nominal Christians, Jews and agnostics see this whole global stage setting, for the scene it is, in the tragic drama of the United [in atheism] Nations succeeding where Communist Russia failed: killing off the love of, and faith in God, in the majority of mankind.

  136. Oh come on

    cohenite:

    Not sure what point you’re trying to make, cohenite.

    Ok, very honest of you.

    Thanks. And if you were being honest, I strongly suspect you too would have difficulty illustrating how the comment you made buttressed what seemed to be your dissenting opinion. If anything, the links you posted clearly illustrated what I was saying about the children of jihadi scum being the victims of horrific child abuse.

    Goatjam:

    The difference of course is that the participants in these regional conflicts are not exporting their grievances throughout the world as a whole. I can’t say that I have noticed ethnic Koreans/Chinese stabbing cops in Victoria and plotting jihad in the name of their regional grievances but do feel free to point out anything that I may have missed.

    That may be so; however, it’s an irrelevant observation considering the falsehood I was protesting, namely:

    On any map of the world with current strife shown, apart from Putin and Ukraine, islam is the central point.

    This is palpably wrong, and that’s all I was saying. The difference you highlighted, quoted above – which I don’t disagree with – does not in any way make the falsehood I took umbrage with any less false.

  137. stackja

    Notafan
    #1461190, posted on September 26, 2014 at 10:57 pm

    the reavers are keeping up with the good works

    God will judge them.

  138. None

    jumpnmcar
    #1460926, posted on September 26, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    Answer: All true believers of Islam -100%- support Sharia Law.

    Oh yeh, and all true Christians comply with Leviticus right ?
    Bullshit.

    Mr jumpnmcar . Leviticus is a priestly code for sacrifices, purification etc etc. part of a larger narrative and also comprising several layers of editorial changes. Even the Jews haven’t sacrificed or had Levitical priests for 2000 years. Either learn some history and some historical theology or else continue to advertise your credentials as an arseclown.

  139. None

    It doesn’t matter what Dennis Hart or Sinclair thinks. Top global security threat remains Islamic terrorism. It remains top threat for national security in Australia. Islamic terrorism is….duh…related to Islam. Islam is a religion (or more correctly a totatalitarian world system) which has a couple of billion or so adherents of various degrees of adherence. All forms of Islam teach the subjugation of non Muslims. You either submit, accept dhimmitude (if you’re a Jew or Christian) or die. This is why even in the most liberal Muslim nations e.g. Malaysia there is no equality, no one people under the one law and no freedom of religion. And even moderate nations like Indonesia face a constant battle against serious adherents a.k.a.’ extremists’ to the ignorant westerners When Muslims are in a minority situation or clearly overpowered they are taught not to wage violent jihad against the kaffir. However all forms of Islam also teach violent jihad is obligatory in other circumstances. This is mainstream Muslim theology in all schools of Islam.
    Just be grateful most Muslims are as slack and as ignorant about their religion as all the lapsed and collapsed Catholics here are about theirs. On the other hand given the rate at which lasped and collapsed Catholics abort their children – along with non Catholics – perhaps Denis Hart might want to consider that death toll of innocents amongst lapsed/collapsed Catholics probably exceeds even that of Islamic terrorism world wide.

    Just sayin’

  140. cynical1

    mizaris
    #1461223, posted on September 26, 2014 at 11:34 pm

    The koran is a self serving diatribe written by a misogynist, bisexual to validate his behaviour. He enforced his will with the sword and his followers have continued, and are continuing, this behaviour even now in the 21st century.

    How dare you!

    Forget to mention he was a pedo…

  141. It is the weekend everybody. Lighten up and read Rowan Dean in AFR.
    Confused about who’s fighting who in the Middle East? Here’s a definitive guide.

    ISIS: Group of beheaders who plundered their name from an obscure Bob Dylan song, in which a gang of grave-robbers despoil “the pyramids all embedded in ice”. (Disclaimer: nothing to do with Islam).

    ISIL: Not to be confused with a popular brand of nasal spray, this group of crucifiers and rapists have been marauding across the desert looking for a brand name that makes them sound even scarier than al-Qaeda. Thus far no luck. (Disclaimer: nothing to do with Islam).

    IS: Grisly bunch of murderers keen to establish an Islamic caliphate across the entire Middle East. (Presidential disclaimer: nothing whatsoever to do with Islam, nope, no way).

    Al Nusra Front: Formerly al-Qaeda in Iraq until aligned with sworn enemy the Syrian Free Army to defeat sworn enemy Bashar al-Assad and now aligned with sworn enemy Hezbollah to defeat sworn enemy Islamic State.

    Jabbah Al Hut: Extremely fat and incredibly villainous slug-like militant leader who believes in capturing foreign princesses and enslaving them on the end of a long chain for his own peculiar lustful pleasures. (Disclaimer: nothing to do with Islam at all, as it happens).

    Al Qanda: Fanatical group of left wing panellists who broke away from the less radical Lateline organisation early last week in order to form their own Ultimo caliphate; subsequently denounced for being “too extreme.” The group comprises an army of hysterical female warriors who spent years training in secret undergraduate locations throughout Australian universities honing their skills in perpetual victimology. The group is convinced that “Western imperialism”, “strategic amnesia” and “Israeli war crimes” are responsible for its dramatic slump in the ratings around about 10pm last Monday night. Also notorious for radicalising gullible young Aussies via YouTube clips encouraging them to “join the audience” or “follow us on Twitter, using the Al-Qanda hashtag at the bottom of your screen”.

    Al Kemba Bookshop and DVD centre: Revered place of cultural learning specialising in ancient manuscripts and popular classics such as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Why Adolf Was a Top Bloke and How Come All Women Are Shameless Hussies.

    Al-Di: Popular invasion by foreign mercenaries hellbent on driving out sworn enemies Coles and Woolies with cheap German imports.

    You can call me Al: Traditional form of jihadist greeting.

    Anti-Baathists: Violently aggressive university undergraduates in desperate need of a wash, hell-bent on protesting about having to pay fees. (Disclaimer: nothing to do with studying).

    Iran: Large country full of sensible, intelligent, moderate political figures many of whom are convinced a 9th century imam hidden in the bottom of a well will come back to life and lead believers to paradise. Also madly developing nuclear warheads. (Disclaimer: nuclear weapons to be used for peaceful purposes only, obviously).

    Al Marcos Baghdatis: Firebrand tennis player who almost won the 2006 Australian Open before he completely lost his head in the final set. (Disclaimer: nothing whatsoever to do with Islam).

    Saudi Arabia: Fanatical sect of extremely wealthy sheiks who seized control of their own oil wells beck in the 1970s and have been terrorising motorists at the petrol bowser ever since. (Disclaimer: Crude currently $USD/bbl 92.74, up 1.3%).

    Sharia Hansen-Young: Fanatical law all unto herself.

    Hamas: Peace-loving band of flower-waving ex-hippies committed to strumming guitars and singing Kum-bay-allah while cultivating the gifts of their native Gazan soil by digging tunnels into Israel so they can murder all the Jews. (Disclaimer: maybe just a teensy-weensy bit to do with Islam).

    Hezbollah: Murderous group of terrorist thugs (see also all-round good guys, keepers of the peace, party of Satan?etc etc).

    Egypt: As per Bob Dylan song, except pyramids all embedded in riots. (Disclaimer: best avoided if you’re a Westerner, female, journalist, or all three).

    Tony Burqa: Charismatic leader of the Al Carrist sect of Hippocrites who believe it is the sacred duty of all True Believers to aggressively oppose the building of bingo halls in East Jerusalem as they are so obviously a major threat to world peace. (Disclaimer: nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with Labor’s Western suburbs vote.)

  142. Zippy The Younger

    The prophet was illiterate, so not “written by the Prophet” but passed on by word of mouth.

    “What Mohammed recited as the revelations of Allah was memorized and written down on paper, palm leaves, and even the shoulder blades of animals. About 20 years after Mohammed’s death, Uthman, the Caliph, empowered Zaid to gather all the known versions of the Koran and produce the Koran we know today. The Koran is considered, precise recording of the words of Mohammed reporting what he heard from the angel Gabriel. Since Mohammed’s transmission of the revelations is taken to be perfect, the Koran is considered by all Muslims to be the perfect exact words of Allah. Uthman then took and burned all the sources.
    ….
    1. When Zaid compiled all the copies of the Koran he arranged them from the longest chapter to the shortest chapter
    ….
    The sequence of events is scrambled. As a result no one would understand the story
    3. It is repetitive, the story of Moses is told 39 times

    6. It is contradictory. One verse will teach tolerance and the next will call for the death of Kafirs. The contradictions confuse the reader.
    7. the koran contains a great deal of violence and threats
    8. the koran is very negative towards Kafirs.

    All of this unfortunate, because when the Koran is made readable it becomes a truly epic story with an incredible plot. It is also the most frightening book you will read because once it is clear, you can see the future.”

  143. Tom

    Al Qanda: Fanatical group of left wing panellists who broke away from the less radical Lateline organisation early last week in order to form their own Ultimo caliphate; subsequently denounced for being “too extreme.” The group comprises an army of hysterical female warriors who spent years training in secret undergraduate locations throughout Australian universities honing their skills in perpetual victimology. The group is convinced that “Western imperialism”, “strategic amnesia” and “Israeli war crimes” are responsible for its dramatic slump in the ratings around about 10pm last Monday night. Also notorious for radicalising gullible young Aussies via YouTube clips encouraging them to “join the audience” or “follow us on Twitter, using the Al-Qanda hashtag at the bottom of your screen”.

    Many thanks for jailbreaking that, Alan. Marvellous.

  144. Paul

    “Check out MEMRI to be brought up to speed.” Don’t you mean check out MEMRI to have your thinking manipulated in the desired direction?

    MEMRI, SITE.

    Mossad operations all. Funny how Rita Katz at SITE gets all the beheading videos ahead of everyone else. Its like she knows when they’re coming.

  145. Gab

    Oh here we go, it’s all a Jewish conspiracy according to Paul. Hilarious.

  146. Notafan

    A lot of the beheading and crucifiction videos I have seen show numerous people making their own memorable moments videos, it’s the blessing of technology, a far cry from the day when only the privileged few had a camcorder.
    Islamic state supporters also put their home movie on live leak.

  147. Jeremy C Browne

    It’s disingenuous of you to make that analogy. There are no Christian groups banned by the federal government. All but one are Islamic. I am unaware of any Australians fearful of being beheaded by Christians.

  148. nilk

    Nilk, I can’t open your linky. I hope you have time to give us a report on the protest sometime.

    It’s a twitter link, Notafan. I didn’t actually go in after all due to having to work for a living. I could have left early, but decided against it. I wasn’t in the mood for dealing with sycophantic, sociopathic leftards enabling more bleating by the perpetually aggrieved.

    I went home and vacuumed instead.

    I did see some footage shot by a mate on his phone of some young woman ranting about how it was actually de media what dun it. Anyone would think that the police leapt out of the station and killed the young man in a hail of bullets.

  149. Gab

    Anyone would think that the police leapt out of the station and killed the young man in a hail of bullets.

    That’s certainly how their ABC and the Sydney Moaning Hamas reported it.

  150. JamesK

    Wikipedia-Ku Klux Klan:

    Though most members of the KKK saw themselves in holding to American values and Christian morality, virtually every Christian denomination officially denounced the Ku Klux Klan.[13]]

    There’s a telling and bleeding’ obvious difference Sinclair

  151. Spider

    I’m always intrigued by the fact that the overwhelming majority of people killed by Islamists and others in the ME would appear to be fellow Muslims going about their everyday business but no marching in the street in Europe, Australia etc.

    Instead it’s look over there. Look. Look. Israel.

  152. outsider

    Sinclair, Denis is wrong on so many levels I imagine he has had no exposure to many of the faith in their own lands, and seen how they deal with minorities, and often each other. The burden of suspicion falls rightly on them because theirs is the only ‘community’ creating not just criminal behaviours in its members but doing it as the right thing to do in the name of their religion.

    As seen in the response by so-called ‘moderate’ Muslims – when they themselves are not receiving death threats, a small lesson for Denis in that perhaps – the ‘we are with Team Australia’ messaging fails to state what needs to be said.

    They should assure their host populations that these are the acts of a few lunatics in their midst, acting out some ancient savagery; and that their educational institutions, religious authorities and councils (Islam is big on institutional structures) will speak with one voice, that they are so sorry to have inflicted these criminals on Australia (and Canada, US, everywhere) and they will take steps to eradicate the threat through educational programs, sermons, social discourse..and will work to integrate fully with the broader Australian community – like everyone else does.

    They need to say they reject the tenets of Sharia Law because it is a hangover from more barbaric times just as we see similar in the doctrines of other religious texts, and is in near total conflict with the Australian legal system and social norms of behaviour. They must show they wish to be Australians first and foremost, having come here to join us. They must show they understand that they are to become law-abiding citizens to the extent that other migration groups do. Say it all on Q&A. Say it to anyone with a microphone.

    Not happening is it? As for empathy – how much of it is the Muslim community showing anyone else, anywhere, in any way at all? Humour us with the details please, Denis.

    And see what Denis did there – he actually puts the burden of effort on the Australian community!! ‘Our job’; ‘we can empathise’; ‘we should not allow it’. And ‘they are in a difficult spot’ Oh really? We don’t have to do that for the Vietnamese, Chinese, Pacific Islanders, Croatians, Serbs, Greeks, English, Poles, Indians – do we?

    It’s actually spilling over into established good citizen migrant groups – my Thai takeaway guy told me this week:- ‘there are plenty of countries they can go, they don’t need to come here.’

  153. H B Bear

    Tony Burqa: Charismatic leader of the Al Carrist sect of Hippocrites who believe it is the sacred duty of all True Believers to aggressively oppose the building of bingo halls in East Jerusalem as they are so obviously a major threat to world peace. (Disclaimer: nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with Labor’s Western suburbs vote.)

    I bet Tony Burqa wishes he was free to engage in anti-Semitic statements like Tanya Dilbersek without people thinking he was simply caving in to the backyard tabbouleh growing demographic that make up the shithole that is his Western Sydney electorate.

    It’s enough to make you head for a bit of skiing if you knew someone with a free chalet.

  154. mizaris

    Forget to mention he was a pedo…

    Not deliberately I assure you. Was on the dregs of a very nice bottle of red and the memory cells faltered.

  155. karl

    Outsider at 8.35-i primarily agree with you yet yesterday I saw Sheik Azim on Sky News in conference with the NSW police and I have to say he is the Muslim leader we are hoping for. He even went as far as to say how proud he was of OUR PM Abbott going after these lunatics. Very sobering stuff and proof (finally) their are Muslim leaders on team Oz. Worth watching.

  156. notafan

    The topic of cousin marriage has been discussed here before and it is only a small part of Islam, Pakinstan and Lebanon/Syria and possibly a few others but the birth defect rate is appalling, the British should make cousin marriage illegal. The NHS is swamped and being accused of finishing off older Brits when this must be costing them a fortune.

    an old article from 2008

  157. notafan

    Well Uthy Baby is not happy with the sheikh’s performance on TV yesterday.
    Sheikh gets a thumbs up from me then.
    We are Uthy’s oppressors, apparently. Rack off back to Pakistan if you don’t like it then Uthy , we don’t want your caliphate, mate.

    Thank the police, very proud of Tony Abbott…and basically just rubber stamp everything the authorities are doing. Subhanallah, how is this any different to what the mufti’s of Sisi or Abdullah do? Shameful. This type of action needs to be openly and firmly rejected by the community.

    “And incline not towards those who oppress, lest the Fire catch you, and you have no supporters other than Allah, then you should not be helped.” (Hud: 113)

    Nice words from our sheikh reminding us how true Muslims need to behave

  158. Joe

    Karl,
    Look up Taqqiya. Now tell me how we are to trust anything any muslim would say?

  159. Fisky

    It’s not an attack to point out the truth. You explicitly lied to us, in order to advance your rhetoric. That’s not cool, and I will call it out.

    Demos claimed that there were no Muslim extremists in London, that Muslim extremists were not threatening or intimidating anyone, at that the real problem is with white people.

  160. Roger

    More dissembling from the muslim community, another ‘meeting’ in Narre Warren tonight

    What’s with the “Y” in “Youth” on the banner in that link, nota?

    Where have I seen something like that before?

  161. notafan

    I’ve missed the y Roger, I did see the Shaddara flag on the poster but if you mean a y like the y on the Logan graffitti, I’m with you 🙂
    going to have a better look

  162. Roger

    going to have a better look

    Yes, check out the banner headline…it’s in block letters, not cursive as in the Logan mosque graffiti, but it’s very similar and it’s an unusual way for anyone to write a y.

  163. Roger

    Here, for reference, is the Arabic ya: ?

  164. notafan

    I agree but I think quite a few people reckon the Logan? graffitti was self inflicted
    We Australians do have our ways, don’t we.
    Like the illegals claiming the Navy took off their shoes and hit them.

  165. Roger

    I agree but I think quite a few people reckon the Logan? graffitti was self inflicted

    Well, I do hope the police are seriously considering that possibility.

    It shouldn’t be too hard to find out how people accustomed to writing in Arabic customarily write the English Y.

    I’m going to have a word in someone’s ear…

  166. notafan

    Good you have an ear you can put an word in Roger.
    It would be great to have that piece of world wide news discredited.

  167. None

    James K, Sinclair is bleedingly blind to the fact too that Islam is a religion whereas KKK never was nor made such a claim and was denounced by Christians. Moreover it actively killed Christians.

    But ho hum, his blog, he can make a dick of himself anytime.

  168. Demosthenes

    I refuse to engage with you.

    Your standard response when losing arguments.

  169. notafan

    Wassim Doureihi ,the speaker at Narre Warren is of course Hizt ut Caliphate Now!’s former media guy.

  170. cohenite

    Oh come on:

    Thanks. And if you were being honest, I strongly suspect you too would have difficulty illustrating how the comment you made buttressed what seemed to be your dissenting opinion. If anything, the links you posted clearly illustrated what I was saying about the children of jihadi scum being the victims of horrific child abuse.

    My point was the indoctrination starts young and if you’d read the child bride link is widespread contradicting the few bad apples bullshit.

    And what the fuck do you mean dissenting opinion?

  171. Tel

    These are unprecedented times for the Muslim community in Australia, especially for the youth. In recent weeks we have seen harassment, raids, arrests and finally even the death of a Muslim youth at the hands of law enforcement authorities.

    A lie by omission is still dishonest. Anyone who turns up at a police station and starts stabbing police with a knife is going to end up getting shot, especially in Victoria where they don’t have a reputation for messing around. Mind you, civilized truce has already been abandoned by this man:

    Wassim Doureihi, the articulate Australian spokesman for the ultra-radical Hizb ut-Tahrir group, agrees with Lewis. “There is no possibility of harmonious co-existence between Islam and the West because there is a fundamental conflict. Ultimately, one has to prevail,” says Doureihi, whose group is banned in several countries. It has few members in Australia but is influential internationally. “There is Islam and the rest of the world, which we seek to liberate and provide a moral example.”

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/clash-of-the-cartoons/2006/02/10/1139542406165.html

  172. notafan

    liberate

    Yeah, just like they

    liberated

    Constantinople and are now

    liberating

    Syria and Iraq
    Jihad is a war of liberation, I feel like something was lost in translation.

  173. Let us appeal to our common humanity before we condemn our differences. Most people want to live their lives in peace, earn a living, and enjoy the company of their family and friends.

    Have you gone commie, SD? ‘common humanity’!!!!! Do you also want world peace and to gwow more twees?

    First, Islam is not the issue. It is the vector that points to the greater disease of non-selective immigration. Go and ask the people in the Western suburbs what they think of ‘common humanity’. As them about the culture shock that is forced upon them. Ask them about the bullying and the bashings in school. Ask them about the jobs they are not eligible for because of job quotas for certain people. Ask them about judges letting people get away with serious crimes because of a ‘cultural duty’ or because ‘they have suffered enough already’. Ask them about the times when they were ‘enjoying the company of their family and friends’ while having to watch their neighbour cut a lamb’s throat and hang the animal up on the Hills Hoist to bleed it out. Ask them about the fear, stress, violence, crime and anti-social behaviour that successive governments have forced them to live with, thanks to non-selective immigration.

    But, of course, there is no-one to speak for these people. The Left call them drunken white racists and the Right just exploit their anger and then do nothing about it, because they are too gutless to undo the harm the Left have done to our society. Everybody craps on them, because government is no longer our servant. It is our master, looking after the interests of its own, its mates and those whom it favours, for one reason or another.

    There is a lot more to be said about such things as welfare, justice, youth policy, education, policing, immigration, free speech, treaties, parliamentary democracy and so on, because both political parties have either failed us in all of these areas or are using policy in these areas to force their agenda on all of us, quite frankly I couldn’t be bothered wasting my time. This socialist s–thole of a country is finished. The Left have won. They are setting and running the agenda and there is no-one to stop them.

  174. Helen

    What is this stalking of Lizzie all about?

  175. Jock

    Sorry Archbishop. I disagree. I think that Islam is incompatible with Western society and culture. In fact any other culture. In my view the followers of Christ try to follow his lead. As you do. Love , compassion, care, healing, and the search for the way to God. With Islam, folloeing Mohammed means war, booty (he discusses that a lot), ordering the assassination of rivals, marrying young girls. This list could go on. Its as if he used Nero or Pontius Pilate as a model to become a religious figure. The “peace” of Islam is one of submission or servitude or something worse.

    I dont intend to waste any more time thinking of how we can live at peace with Islam. Muslims are now within our community and I accept that. But the experiment of bringing disparate peoples into our society with the two pronged aim of 1) dealing with the worlds poor by letting them have western style welfare 2) hoping that they would become more “western” and influence their friends and family at home, has proved to be an abject failure. Muslim immigration has to be objectively reviewed.

  176. Tom

    Barry
    #1461762, posted on September 27, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    A magnificent post.

    The whole thing should be a liberty quote.

  177. Roger

    The whole thing should be a liberty quote.

    Except for the three sentences of defeatism at the end.
    I understand the sentiment, but this country isn’t done for yet.
    Paradoxically, the worse things get, the more hope there is of a political and societal turnaround, as we see signs of in several western European countries, including the UK at present, where the Tories are running scared of UKIP.

  178. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Helen, Demosthenes is Grigory, or his twin. Grigory spent all of the last Open Forum stalking me: using modes such as coming up with great ‘gotchas’ that were nothing of the sort, consistently accusing me of ‘lies’ when there were none made, and making other abusive remarks in the manner of a continual never-ending repetitive taunt. Demosthenes’ mode is so similar it is uncanny – unless they are one and the same. Or out of the same dirty raincoat.

    It is/was totally trollish behavior. Ignore him/them. Internet stalkers like this do exist.
    Tom and others suggested he/they fuck off, and I totally concur.

  179. A Lurker

    The next generation of head-loppers are already in our midst.

  180. nilk

    I’d like to add to Barry’s list: ask the young mother who can’t walk her infant in the stroller without getting spat on, or the couple who gave up living in a particularly culturally-enriched suburb after too many nights spent cowering above their shop while the gangs fought in the street outside and the police stayed away in droves.

    Yeah, I’m loving this common humanity thing.

  181. cohenite

    Barry: great post; fuck the muslims and their apologists in the left and that other l of the political spectrum.

  182. Notafan

    Lurker,
    Muslims Rise caliphate imminent is a Hizb ut Caliphate Now! Slogan they used at their 2012 cconference so you can bet that uthy baby isn’t far away from that youtube.
    In fact that was the title of one of Badar’s little talks

  183. Notafan

    Nilk sounds like a few locals need to have the hidden cameras and start lodging complaints
    We get enough bogus ones from the non kuffar
    On the other hand I had muslim customers today nice mum when I had a chat, had an appreciation of one aspect of Western culture.
    I gave them a discount so dad had no excuse not to pony up.

  184. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Though most members of the KKK saw themselves in holding to American values and Christian morality, virtually every Christian denomination officially denounced the Ku Klux Klan.[13]]

    There’s a telling and bleeding’ obvious difference Sinclair

    Hiya JamesK. Good to see you, just like ole times. Hope all is well with you.

    Your point above, is my point, is Philippa’s point, is the point that has been the crux of debate (hmm – crux) right throughout this thread. Muslims in Australia need to drop the outrage at us and get their own house in order, publically, in many forms and fora, as soon as they can. Only then can ‘good neighbours’ get together. Commonality can only come when there is some genuinely to be seen. The hand of friendship can then naturally follow.

    The thread has been useful for showing that some of this is happening, but also for demonstrating how this religion has still got a long way to go in signaling modernity and engagement with a capitalist and consumer Westernised and democratic society to its followers.

  185. Tel

    How about that? Uncle Elomar was put away under John Howard for running around with stolen rocket launchers and got found guilty of threatening to point them at someone. Nephew Mohamad Elomar is off in Syria posting up his head chopping videos on YouTube.

    http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2012/12/05/mohamad-elomar-needs-anger-management-or-a-one-way-ticket-to-mecca/

    Just a touch close to home, for me at least…

  186. Notafan

    The family that jihads together stays together
    Dad Elomar is bestie’s with Jamal Rifi too.
    The Raads of Melbourne have a similar history of generational jihad, also recruited 18 yo brother in law Adam Dahman as a suicide bomber. I think a Sydney Raad was killed in Syria too.
    You wonder what they were up to in the Lebanese civil war as well.

  187. Plutarch

    Don’t like dissent from your particular worldview, huh? It seems your posting rules are a load of shit Sinclair. How about you don’t mention liberty, liberalism or freedom in future, so as to avoid hypocrisy?

  188. Leo G

    ” Uncle Elomar was put away under John Howard for running around with stolen rocket launchers”

    Those M72-A6 preloaded rocket launchers are still missing right?
    Very nasty weapons, with an effective range close to 400 metre, piercing armour up to 150mm, optimised for behind-the-armour blast-kill.

  189. Notafan

    Yes there are still five of them out there

  190. Plutarch

    Plutarch
    #1461876, posted on September 27, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Well, that won’t re-post my comments you deleted which were critical of Islam, will it? None contained incitements to violence or threats. What gives?

    [Your first comment was incitement to violence, your second comment was abusive given that I hadn’t published your first comment. Your third comment was “lol”. Sinc]

  191. donsheahan

    Barry: great post; fuck the muslims and their apologists in the left and that other l of the political spectrum.

    Agreed.

  192. DaveA

    French woman takes a stroll down a public street, in France.

  193. Oh come on

    Cohenite:

    My point was the indoctrination starts young

    And how is that a germane riposte to what I was saying about child abuse?

    and if you’d read the child bride link is widespread contradicting the few bad apples bullshit.

    Who here is pushing that cart?

    And what the fuck do you mean dissenting opinion?

    You appeared to be disagreeing with whatever you thought I was saying.

  194. Plutarch

    Plutarch
    #1462065, posted on September 27, 2014 at 8:59 pm
    [..]
    [Your first comment was incitement to violence

    Utter lies. Saying, literally, that we must do something about Islam before the it is too late is an incitement to violence? Get your hand off it.

    [I’ll report and let the others decide. This is just an extract from a hate message I didn’t let through:

    We must eliminate it before we are destroyed completely.

    That is a tame extract too.

    As you see Plutarch, I haven’t deleted your comments – they’re just not public. Sinc]

  195. Notafan

    That would have to be the biggest insult to muslims I’ve seen
    How about
    Be friendly to muslims to stop them beheading you
    I’m sure muslims must be delighted that the Parramatta mission thinks so poorly of them

    Parrammissimission says that the best way to defeat islamic state is to befriend a muslim

  196. jupes

    There’s a telling and bleeding’ obvious difference Sinclair

    Sinc’s problem with Muslims is that they continually contradict his belief that everyone can live together in bountiful peace and harmony in a libertarian paradise. Muslims, Jews and Kaffurs will just wave hello to each other as they go about their business and worship, if only there was small government and less regulation.

    He has to believe that Muslims really want to live peacefully side by side with us, or otherwise libertarian theory is exposed as a crock.

    He’s trying really hard but unfortunately I think the clue-bat delivered by commentators on this blog have been giving him a bit of head-ache.

  197. Luke Harris

    The more I read the original post that spawned this gargantuan thread, the more misguided I find it. It would have been better worded as “No-one thinks these people are representative of the American South, so why do many people think these people are representative of Muslims?”. When one puts it that way, the question snaps into better focus. Because the KKK’s very existence did reveal a deep sickness in southern culture, and one that took many generations and much courage to excise. It was a pathology that took generational change and an external agency (the US Federal Government) to finally defeat. And while most white southerners were not members of the KKK, nor were they vocal critics of it. Anything that helped keep uppity black people down was tacitly approved. So in the Muslim context, it would be much more reassuring if community leaders unequivocally condemned abominable organisations such as the Islamic State. But instead we get silence, aggressive attempts to blame external forces and an absolute refusal to confront core issues of faith and the use of violence.

  198. cohenite

    Oh come on; time to move on but rather than go down some fractal process where the basic point is lost due to your strained detail let me state that basic point again:

    Islam is the problem. Got it?

  199. Sinclair Davidson

    I think the clue-bat delivered by commentators on this blog have been giving him a bit of head-ache.

    No – I don’t think so. In the meantime this thread has generated massive interest being the most read thread other than an open thread this month.

  200. Plutarch

    Mordy Bromberg would be proud of your strained interpretation of ‘incitement to violence’. I suppose it means whatever you choose it to.

    [Yes – for as long as I carry the can, I make the rules. Sinc]

  201. DA

    I posted on this issue here.
    http://dionysusantipodes.com/2014/09/19/half-right/

    The key problems with the comparison in my humble opinion are as follows;

    1. The KKK doesn’t claim to essentially or fundamentally derive from Christianity. Yes they do claim to be Christian but the formation of the organisation was driven racism in a society which believed that genuine racial equality would lead to serious social fracture.
    2. If you asked any mainstream Christian leader to publicly and without reservation, condemn the KKK and call on members of his/her congregation to report their activities to police, you’d be knocked over in the rush to get to the microphone. The harshest condemnation would be directed at the extremists rather those who might get the wrong idea about Christianity as a result of the KKK’s actions.
    3. I don’t see the same excuses on behalf of KKK members that are quickly trotted out by some in respect of Islamic terrorists; namely that the KKK‘s disgusting , violent philosophy and reprehensible actions are caused by (an inferred understandable) result of what someone else did to them.

    Acknowledging all this, it is unremarkably factual that the vast majority of Islamic Australians live peacefully and harmoniously and should not be assumed on the basis of their faith, to encourage or condone the actions of the extremists.

  202. None

    Let us appeal to our common humanity before we condemn our differences. Most people want to live their lives in peace, earn a living, and enjoy the company of their family and friends.

    Have you gone commie, SD? ‘common humanity’!!!!! Do you also want world peace and to gwow more twees?

    Yep, Sinc wants the world to hold hands and sing kumbayah. What he doesn’t get is that Islam has a very underdeveloped (some would say no) anthropology. Short of just saying all humanity was created by Allah, there is no concept of ‘common humanity’ in Islamic theology or any concept of universal right to life etc (all that came from Christians before the lefties bastardised and twisted it).

    When the grand mufti – itself a misnomer, there is no central authority in Islam, hence one of its many problems; this is just a decorative title that means nothing and carries no authority – when the grand mufti made some encouraging words the other day (in Arabic I note) which on the surface seemed to repudiate violece, he added this telling statement:

    “protection of human life is one of the five basic rights of Islam”.

    Yes there is the idea of five rights in Islam. But here’s the catch. The underlying assumption is that the right to life etc, has ONLY BEEN GIVEN TO MAN BY ISLAM. If you are not a member of the nation of Islam (for that is how Islamic theology conceives the world, as two nations), YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LIFE, PROTECTION OF LIFE etc.

    This is why to many of our Muslim ‘friends’ are crying foul because a policeman shot a Muslim who was stabbing him. The policeman, being a kaffir, is irrelevant. The law of the land is irrelevant, Islamic law (sharia) trumps all law. It was the Muslim who had the right to be protected, not the kaffir policeman.

    And there one sees why Islam is totally incompatible with Western values, laws etc. Sure to a degree Muslims can live within our system and even flourish (I will leave aside the inherent hypocrisy and double standards of many – but note that our wannabe assassin loved his Western brand names while he was stabbing the cop). But it is here at the fracture points that you see how inimicable Islam is to our way of life. And of course once you let that cancer metastisize, once you concede to Islamic values, your whole society ends up dead.

    We have learnt this time and time again in history, since the inception of the (murderous) cult of Islam. Not Sinc. He still salivates over his naive, incoherent, libertarian utopia (which of course is no different to any socialist uptopia. Both only leads to authoritarianism and totalitarianism, because under socialism or libertarianism, he who has the most power always wins)

  203. Fat Tony

    For almost the last 1400 years, Western Civilisation has known that the problem is Islam – but not now – the likes of Sinc and other “intellectuals” have decided that Islam is compatible with our Civilisation, if only we would make the effort and contain our prejudices…..

    It will be a re-run of the appeasement of Hitler by the “intellectuals” and chattering classes – with the eventual killing and dying being done by the ordinary people who saw this problem coming years ago, but were howled down by the aforesaid “smart ones”.

    I really do hope, if Western Civilisation prevails, there are Nuremberg-type trials for all the appeasers and enablers of Islam – because the eventual death toll will greatly dwarf the 20th century wars. (How long before Islam gets to use nukes?)

    THE.PROBLEM.IS.ISLAM.

  204. Ros

    The next time you see someone of Muslim background say hello, smile and start a conversation. ”
    Don’t know whether any one has complained about this, haven’t read all comments, but I find that both patronising and stupid. Apart from the fact that I am very Anglo Saxon culturally, so striking up conversations with total strangers is something I don’t find easy, how do I recognise the person I am going to impose on is of Muslim background, the hijab? Then I assume the purpose of my intrusion is to make the recipient feel more comfortable, which should work a treat if I am a white male addressing a young “Muslim” woman I don’t know. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that some “Muslim” men get extremely aggressive towards doctors and nurses, who have a good reason to be talking to their women. The suggestion is undoubtedly culturally insensitive at best, and as Mick has discovered, could cause anger rather than friendship.

    Then there is the matter of abuse reports. My experience recently when addressing some young men about their selfish behaviour( playing music extremely loudly in their car in a quiet street for several hours in the early morning), without knowing they were Muslim,it was very dark, (they told me as they accused me of insult and Racism) was that they had a different idea as to what constituted an insult than I did. I listened on a video to a hizb member at the rally who had been one of those searched whose 10 minute diatribe had been only about the police humiliating his mother by seeing her half naked. At the end he did mention the problem was she didn’t have her head scarf on. I don’t doubt there are some nasty sods, but what exactly is an insult in interactions between “Muslims” and non. Given the highly probable difference in evaluation of acceptable interaction by some “Muslims” I would recommend strongly against launching into conversation.

  205. .

    Apart from the fact that I am very Anglo Saxon culturally, so striking up conversations with total strangers is something I don’t find easy

    It means you live in the city. Move to the country.

    DA – I agree with your conclusion but have you heard of the Pillar of Fire Church?

  206. whyisitso

    I don’t doubt there are some nasty sods, but what exactly is an insult in interactions between “Muslims” and non. Given the highly probable difference in evaluation of acceptable interaction by some “Muslims” I would recommend strongly against launching into conversation.

    If you took any notice of Davidson and C.L., you would perceive it your duty to enrol in a cultural sensitivity class. All white Australians have this duty. It is now our responsibility not to slip up. Us “old Aussies” MUST integrate with all the new cultures.

    Make sure you do a course that encompasses the many dozen cultures now settled in this country. I expect that this will become L-A-W before too long. Non-compliance will be punished by stoning or beheading.

  207. Ros

    Good advice dot, however I did spend the early part of my life in the country. Its different, stating the obvious, even as a visitor you are noticed, and accepted by the community for the time you are there. Up until recently I did quite a bit of driving Adelaide Sydney and back. One of the aspects of the trip I always enjoyed was when the hand wave, or finger raising started, and noting when it ended. I had a dislike of the Hay plain, and usually avoided it, the lack of friendliness of the most of the drivers on the Sturt highway made it a different trip for one, very few fingers or hands, not a country road, just a route.

    And dinner in the local pub or club always involved a friendly chat from a local or two. Not a common practice in a Sydney cafe, wherein I might have occasion to share the space with a “Muslim” person. Kinda amusing thinking of turning to whoever and saying hello, are you Muslim, want to have a chat.

  208. Oh come on

    Oh come on; time to move on but rather than go down some fractal process where the basic point is lost due to your strained detail let me state that basic point again:

    Yes, I agree it is time to move on – you should never have started. It seems you never actually grasped the basic point – you just shoved your oar in for your own reasons.

    Islam is the problem. Got it?

    Why are you telling me this?

  209. Ed Snack

    Well, comparing ISIS and the KKK seems common these days, and it is one of the shallowest most reprehensible pieces of intellectual masturbation possible. Is this an antipodean April 1st post from Sinc ?

  210. Fisky

    Why are you telling me this?

    It’s the right-wing “counter-jihadist” version of the Leftist Anti-Knowledge Device (it deletes all information after 2007!), except this right-wing prototype is more like an aircraft’s black box, wiping the record clean on a two-hour loop.

  211. DA

    Yep – heard of the Pillar of Fire mob.
    Some of the founders were weirdos and racist and had links to KKK apparently.
    However, my point is still valid ( perhaps more so).
    I am equally certain mainstream Christian Leaders would condemn their beliefs just as vigorously.
    There are self evidently extremists in every religion.
    In this case, it’s how the mainstream treats them.
    I’m not a great lover of the “Team Australia ” terminology, but I understand its originators intent.
    If there is universal and unequivocal condemnation of these extremists by EVERYONE (and most importantly for those concerned about a backlash , by the mainstream Islamic leadership in particular) then these bastards become truly isolated and the prospect of rising Islamophobia is diminished.
    I don’t believe we’re hearing enough of that.
    With the exception of Dr Jamal Rifi who appeared on Lateline recently, the sentiments expressed by Islamic leaders seems to be primarily focussed on a possible backlash against moderate muslims.
    Finally, as always for the Q&A oikophobic set, this incident, like so many others, highlights their profound hypocrisy.
    Didn’t hear a single one of them express a jot of public concern that the actions of a small number of Catholic clerics abusing children decades ago, might lead to a backlash against Catholics?
    To the contrary, they were very quick to infer and suggest that in fact these practices derived from Catholicism generally and more specifically the practice of celibacy.
    It never ceases to amaze how quickly the enlightened people of principle dump it given the opportunity to indulge in an Approved Prejudice.

  212. notafan

    Yes Catholics experiencing backlash just suck it up.
    Not much fun wearing a roman collar in public, I would imagine.

  213. Zippy The Younger

    Time to start deporting Muslims, while the population is relatively weak.

    Once the population increases, gains strength and momentum it will be nearly impossible to dislodge islam.

    Sharia is compulsory for all muslims, there is no option for them to accept bits of sharia and reject other bits.

    Muslims only aquiesce when they are weak, waiting patiently for strength in numbers.

    86:15 They plot and scheme against you [Mohammed], and I plot and scheme against them. Therefore, deal calmly with the Kafirs and leave them alone for a while.

  214. Fisky

    Time to start deporting Muslims

    Where to? Who do you think is going to agree to take them?

  215. .

    whyisitso
    #1462567, posted on September 28, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    I don’t doubt there are some nasty sods, but what exactly is an insult in interactions between “Muslims” and non. Given the highly probable difference in evaluation of acceptable interaction by some “Muslims” I would recommend strongly against launching into conversation.

    If you took any notice of Davidson and C.L., you would perceive it your duty to enrol in a cultural sensitivity class. All white Australians have this duty. It is now our responsibility not to slip up. Us “old Aussies” MUST integrate with all the new cultures.

    Currency Lad is “culturally sensitive”…get out of here you joker!

  216. Oh come on

    Time to start deporting Muslims

    Get on the bus!

    Good lord man how on earth do you propose this be done?

    Geert Wilders suggested paying Muslims to renounce their Dutch citizenship. I don’t have a problem with that in principle, but can’t see how it could possibly work without ugly statist measures being enacted.

  217. Zippy The Younger

    Where to? Who do you think is going to agree to take them?

    Anywhere but here. Plenty of countries can be bribed to take them.

    Norway deports to lithuania amongst others.

    Thinking about the future.

    The simplest solution I can think of for the islam dilemma is this scenario:

    there is a coup in saudi arabia and USA & europe go in hard to clean it up, install a secular government. Don’t fall for the sharia is allowed to exist with the secular constitution crap.

    You read it here first on the cat folks!

  218. notafan

    Denmark pays migrants to leave, it’s a thousand euros and more if they want to set up a business at home. All voluntary of course.

  219. whyisitso

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-28/teen-prevented-from-flying-overseas-for-arranged-marriage/5774364

    Presumably this girl was being flown to Mississippi or Alabama, to satisfy the lust of some KKK Christian minister of religion?

  220. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Good lord man how on earth do you propose this be done?

    Ferdinand and Isabella managed it.

  221. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    In reference to Wahabism and Salafism, there have been quite successful de-islamisations in history.

    Oversimplifying, these fall into two general types, the ‘right you lot, get out of here’ (eviction of the morisco from Spain is an example). Generally, this type occurs after a fairly serious war which the muslims lose, and the conquering power evicts them.

    The second type is full assimilation. Much trickier to pull off as it’s longer term, it depends on muslims being forced to follow the law of the land. Full rights and formal education for women (it all depends on this) no slavery, no multiple wives none, never, no special place under the law absolutely no Sharia, all honour murders ruthlessly punished, no special dress, no ghettoisation, no societal adaption to muslim mores at all no halal certification no special stors except those they themselves run etc etc: this all amounts to self-imposed hardship in remaining a muslim. The final twist is to draw strong attention to the self-imposed hardship and actively support conversion through the women.

    This is how the muslim communities in parts of the old Austrian Empire were assimilated.

    The third option is the one Japan uses right now. They are not permitted entry or citizenship. There are a couple of thousand muslims in Japan at most – there is one mosque, centuries old and setup for visiting sailors pre-Tokugawa. No more have ever been permitted, not have prayer rooms been permitted.

    What the left has done here is to deny our society the tools needed to assimilate them, while encouraging their innate self-identification as victims of vast conspiracies, and then (a genius touch) also portray our society as too weak to withstand the wahabists and salafists.

    This can only end in disaster.

    We are at the end of the beginning, the preparing of the ground for that disaster by the left.

    We are transitioning into the very first part of the disaster itself. Oh, there’s still time to avoid it yet that will be wasted, the left is very good at that tactic. Then we will move into the disaster itself, which may well resemble ‘The Troubles’ – some level of violent intercommunal fighting. Could just be lots of low-level terrorist acts, assassinations and drive bys, could range upwards to serious intercommunal bloodhsed.

    The left will then use this as an opportunity to expand their totalitarian horizons, as they always do.

    Welcome to the 21st century – just like the 16th.

  222. jupes

    The key problems with the comparison in my humble opinion are as follows;

    Mohammed was a warrior who faught to establish a caliphate, beheaded his enemies, enslaved and raped captured women and stoned adulterers to death.

    Jesus never strung up a black man.

  223. tomix

    Muslims do involve themselves in politics and fascist governments have made use of their “talents”.

    the German version of “Mein Kampf” designates the Arab people as one of the lowest races of humanity, though this section was not included in the Arabic translations of the book.[7] Hitler had told his military commanders in 1939, shortly before the start of the war:

    We shall continue to make disturbances in the Far East and in Arabia. Let us think as men and let us see in these peoples at best lacquered half-apes who are anxious to experience the lash.[ 8][9]
    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

  224. Fisky

    In reference to Wahabism and Salafism, there have been quite successful de-islamisations in history.

    The second type is full assimilation. Much trickier to pull off as it’s longer term, it depends on muslims being forced to follow the law of the land. Full rights and formal education for women (it all depends on this) no slavery, no multiple wives none, never, no special place under the law absolutely no Sharia, all honour murders ruthlessly punished, no special dress, no ghettoisation, no societal adaption to muslim mores at all no halal certification no special stors except those they themselves run etc etc: this all amounts to self-imposed hardship in remaining a muslim. The final twist is to draw strong attention to the self-imposed hardship and actively support conversion through the women.

    This is an interesting one, because it goes two ways.

    1) Giving adequate space and comfort to Muslim women who wish to convert OUT. This means taking an uncompromising and even inquisitorial approach to “communities” that try to pressure people away from apostasy. I think there are great incentives for Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men (in the Australian context it almost always means marrying “up”), but the broader society needs to make it absolutely clear that there will be no tolerance at all for any form of social pressure let alone violence against apostates. I would introduce a law making it illegal to vilify apostates in public or in private, punishable by 10 years in prison.

    2) Reducing the incentives for non-Muslim women to convert IN. This is a trickier one, because we all know that the vast majority of white female converts are attracted to Islam because of their own physical unattractiveness, their lack of control over weight and diet, and their lack of self-esteem in a society that places a premium on hot chicks in bikini. There is no clear solution to this in a modern society.

  225. Fisky

    Ferdinand and Isabella managed it.

    Yes, in the context of an anti-colonial campaign over several centuries of hostilities, it’s not surprising that the Spaniards opted for expulsion at the end of it. How is that relevant to Australia?

  226. Uh oh

    Sixty Minutes doing a story on Kurdish women fighting ISIS. As the bullets fly our intrepid reporter Tara Brown is about to sh*t herself whilst the Kurdish girls look extremely relaxed. I don’t think they’ve told Tara that it’s just a training exercise for the benefit of the stupid Australians. Very funny.

  227. DaveA

    Do Muslims Arbitration Tribunals exist for extremists?

    The Muslim Arbitration Tribunal is a form of alternative dispute resolution which operates under the Arbitration Act 1996 which is available in the United Kingdom to Muslims who wish to resolve disputes without recourse to the courts system.[1] The “tribunals” were set up by lawyer Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi and operate in London, Bradford, Manchester, Birmingham and Nuneaton. Two more are planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

    How well integrated are clients of the Islamic Sharia Council of London (no legal authority)? How tolerant are they of the culture they have chosen to live within?

    The Islamic Sharia Council is a London-based, quasi-Islamic court that provides legal rulings and advice to Muslims in accordance with Islamic Sharia based on the four Sunni schools of thought. It primarily handles cases of marriage and divorce and, to a lesser extent business and finance.[1] According to BBC News, thousands of Muslims have turned to the Council to resolve family and financial issues. According to the Council, it deals with 200-300 cases monthly.

  228. I don’t have a problem with that in principle, but can’t see how it could possibly work without ugly statist measures being enacted.

    Get rid of the anti-discrimination act entirely and let society go to work.

    Ugliness doesn’t have to be statist.

  229. Lucie

    Barry #1461762, posted on September 27, 2014 at 3:28 pm:
    Good post. I wept. You’ve nailed it in every word.

  230. Oh come on

    Get rid of the anti-discrimination act entirely and let society go to work.

    It’s not the RDA that’s holding back the tide – assuming one even exists at this point.

  231. Leigh Lowe

    Sixty Minutes doing a story on Kurdish women fighting ISIS. As the bullets fly our intrepid reporter Tara Brown is about to sh*t herself whilst the Kurdish girls look extremely relaxed. I don’t think they’ve told Tara that it’s just a training exercise for the benefit of the stupid Australians. Very funny.

    Snap!
    Saw the shorts yesterday and immediately thought of the Frontline episode of the siege. They were kept three miles from the scene but they put on the flak jacket, crouched down, leaning forward right into the camera lens and whispered as if the gunman was just behind the nearest tree.
    But make room on the mantlepiece for a Walkley, Tara.

  232. incoherent rambler

    Let us appeal to our common humanity before we condemn our differences. Most people want to live their lives in peace, earn a living, and enjoy the company of their family and friends.

    Adolf Eichmann who authorized countless numbers to be sent to their deaths, just wanted to live his life in peace, earn a living, enjoy the company of family and friends, obey orders and do his job.

    The point I wish to highlight is that great evil can come from benign motivations.
    Arendt thought the problem was that Eichmann was simply incapable of thinking.
    The conflict between Islam and modernity is something that people (especially muslims) need to “think” about, if they wish to live their lives in peace.

  233. Logical Arguments

    Very few serpents
    are lethal; a fair man’s a
    snake-disregarder;

    and I’m no glutton
    because I still have some food
    left in the larder.

    Ebola virus
    can’t be very bad because
    Africans survive,

    and other plagues too
    have had an unkind rap since
    humans are alive.

    Few Mahometans
    are murderers; the rest are
    unfairly hated

    by folk around the
    world who, so far, have not been
    annihilated.

    Lions and jackals
    can’t be carnivores because
    zebras still exist,

    and my neighbour is
    so amiable he can’t
    be a jihadist.

    Anyone who thinks
    Islam bad has been watching
    too much Murdoch news;

    the world’s real problem
    is global domination
    by prejudiced Jews!

  234. notafan

    Thankyou Deadman,
    very nicely put

  235. wozzup

    “Commenter Rosemary, in the linked article:

    My observation – there were no Muslim protests in Australia over the actions of their fellow Muslims in Rotherham, UK; there were no Muslim protests in Australia over the actions of Boko Haram; there were no Muslim protests in Australia over various non-combatant Westerners getting their heads lopped off in the Middle East by ISIS; there were no Muslim protests in Australia over the killing and abductions of Yazidi, Christian and other minorities by ISIS; I also recollect no Muslim protests in Australia about the terror attacks in London, Bali, Madrid, Mumbai, Philadelphia, and of course, New York. What I did observe is Muslims in Australia demonstrating about an asylum seeker getting murdered during a riot on Manus Island, about police raids in Sydney and Brisbane, and a demonstration about that young Muslim getting himself killed by one of our coppers (after he tried to kill them first).

    So true.”

    Yep all too true – and not only here in Australia. On the theme of “suppose I gave a party and no one came” the following is a link to an article about a weekend “Not in my Name” rally of Muslims against ISIS in Houston Texas organised by CAIR – the Council of American Islamic Relations. According to the article about 6 Muslims attended. That is a pretty revealing measure of just how much Muslims want peace and do not support terrorism.

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/10/04/wow-hamas-linked-cair-in-houston-holds-rally-against-isis-and-about-6-muslims-showed-up/

    But despite this I really, really believe that most Australian Muslims only want peaceful coexistence , that they all really do not support ISIS and that they actually do respect non Muslims. I also believe there are fairies living at the bottom of the garden and that Santa will visit me at Christmas time, by the way.

    In reality though the ONLY thing I ever see Australian Muslims demonstrating about is their hatred of Australian Jews (Jews everywhere, actually) , their contempt for their non Muslim host country (which they can’t wait to turn into a replica of the miserable self-created shit holes they have just fled from – go figure) and their perception that any legitimate action taken by our government in response to terrorism represents an unwarranted, repressive backlash against them personally. (Which I guess is another way of saying they personally support terrorists – otherwise of course, why would they take it so personally?)

    Poor sad little victims that they are. Is it any wonder that most Australians (those who are neither leftists nor of the political class) who have had this problem foisted upon them against their wishes by a patronizing, arrogant and ignorant political class intent on ideology and / or short term political advantage, now just want to see the rear end of these dangerous, tiresome and odious f#ckers.

    Or at least the ones who support a fundamentalist view of their disgusting, monstrously primitive, neanderthal religion. Which is to say, based on polls of Muslims conducted in USA, Canada, UK, Sweden, Belgium, France, Holland, Denmark and Norway – the 40% and 60% of Muslims in those countries who want sharia introduced as the law of their new land. You know, that loving, cuddly law that advocates (no, actually – demands) head and hand chopping, stringing up of gays and apostates, stoning of women for adultery – even if raped, enslavement of non Muslims and other multicultural pleasantries. That sharia!

    What we are seeing, courtesy of these folk and their deeply, deeply sick culture, is an attack on civilization, accompanied by the reprimitivisation of human kind, in all its blood thirsty, head hacking goodness. All played out with the tacit support of our lords and political masters. In this regard may I particularly say thank you very f#cking much, Labor (and Labor’s “progressive”mates in other countries whom they follow like lemmings) for this joy which was conferred upon us by the bounty of your unending malice towards western civilization and contempt for the constitution and people you were sworn to serve and protect.

Comments are closed.