Thursday Forum: November 20, 2014

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1,072 Responses to Thursday Forum: November 20, 2014

  1. Gab

    Their ABC have long forgotten they are public servants employed by taxpayers and instead believe they are the elite 1% employed by the Greenfilth and Labor.

  2. Zippy The Younger

    But the prophet says its good!

    Six Men Barred From Contact With Young Girls

    Six men from Birmingham who were ordered to stay away from young girls to prevent sexual exploitation have been named after a judge ruled they could be identified.

    In an “innovative” legal move to prevent vulnerable children from being sexually exploited, long-term injunctions have been granted to stop the men from approaching “any female under 18” who they are not personally connected to.

    Birmingham City Council launched the court proceedings over concerns for the welfare of a 17-year-old girl who is in its care.

    At the High Court this week, restrictions were placed on Mohammed Anjam, Naseem Khan, Omar Ahmed, Mohammed Javed, Sajid Hussain and Shah Alam – despite none of the men having been convicted of a crime in relation to the teenager.

  3. srr

    Is there anything less sensitive to sexuality, religion, race and culture, than publicly and loudly abusing a white, married, Catholic, Australian woman, for not aborting the third child born in that one marriage, because having any children was bad enough, but having a third was a “crime against the planet”.

    Particularly when the abuser was a well know, admired and influential member of the community, and the married, Catholic mother was holding that tiny baby in her arms at time.

    Do any cats know what it’s like to see someone, publicly and loudly, actually wish their baby dead, while hatefully glaring at that baby, and have not one member of the surrounding and passing public dare to speak up and tell the creep to pull his head in, but many nodding in agreement with the abuser?

  4. Notafan

    Christopher Pyne should be campaigning for a significant increase of the size of the ABC Adelaide production unit and the reduction of the Sydney one.
    Think of the savings and the boost to the South Australian economy,
    Actually sell Ultimo and Ripponlea and move the lot to Adelaide.
    Think of the savings, Mr Scott.

  5. MartinG

    Notafan
    #1518952, posted on November 21, 2014 at 6:13 am

    The reavers are attempting mass attacks seeking to overwhelm ygp positions, sadly for them that makes their fighters attractive targets for coalition bombs.

    New York Times article on Kobane with a little history

    You beat me to it. 🙂 It’s a good article and makes interesting read.

    More Than a Battle, Kobani Is a Publicity War

  6. john constantine

    If the abc employees are entitled to use the abc infrastructure to openly fight for political outcomes that pay them for crony socialism,

    What is the difference to victorian ambulances being used as mobile socialist political billboards?.

    Why not have the army march in support of political outcomes like they do in the thirld world?.
    [sorry, forgot the mardi gras].

    Where does using the publicly owned resources to fight for socialism end?.

  7. blogstrop

    I have (mostly) enjoyed being part of the Cat crowd, where comments appear right away, and where topics are covered that the MSM don’t cover, breaking stories get noticed fairly quickly, and links are provided to all sorts of things.

    I’ve particularly enjoyed the way Bruce of Newcastle dices and slices warmists. I’ve loved the views expressed by all the women, and there are quite a few, which is a healthy sign. Then there are the erudite posts from the main team of contributors, with Sinclair’s analysis often cutting to the quick the lazy generalisations and myths that pollies and media regularly trot out.

    There are some less healthy aspects as well. This can lead to anger management issues, when MV and others keep saying there’s no difference between Liberals and Labor, or some advocate another term of Labor as a form of payback against the LNP, who have disappointed them. That’s Tony Windsor/Rob Oakshott territory. It gets worse, with personal abuse of Abbott and Credlin. There’s a lot of abuse and not nearly enough constructive criticism. I actually find a lot more of the latter in the MSM, admittedly more in News Ltd. When I say look, this is just not accurate or reasonable, there are large differences between Libs & Labor, I get told to just put up some standard boilerplate statements. Thanks. Just as I’ve said many times that we don’t need repetitious trolls, we can read that crap in the Fairfax media, I don’t need the repetition of the empty abuse pattern of political comment that has escalated beyond a joke.

    What I’m getting around to, is that I really should quit the habit, as I feel it’s not doing me any good, and also seems fairly often to prompt uselessly intemperate (as opposed to useful or funny intemperate) responses from various of the regulars – telling me something. I tried to give up about a year ago but have been a recidivist all this year. I tell myself that it’s the alternative way to keep informed, so just can’t help checking in to see what’s being said or linked to. I’ll try again to just go away, maybe sometimes lurk (dangerous!), and say nothing, keep the urge to comment on the leash, and not be provoked by the nihilists. I think by now you know my views anyway.

  8. Rudiau

    Coopers Beer is halal certified.

    Who the F certified it so? Alcohol is Haram.
    End.of.story.

    Provided you do not drink enough to “intoxicate”, many forms of alcohol are permissible in Islam.

    If alcohol is derived from grapes or dates, it will be haram and impure. If it is from anything else besides dates and grapes and it does not intoxicate directly or through a mixture, then it is permissible.

    I don’t interpret it that way.
    In context of the question asked WRT Australian beer the level of alcohol present would render them all haraam.

    Who the F certified it so? Alcohol is Haram.

    End.of.story.

    Correct.

    The first is the intoxicating beer that is sold in some countries. This beer is khamr (an intoxicant) and it is haraam to sell it, buy it and drink it. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every intoxicant is khamr and every intoxicant is haraam.” Narrated by Muslim, 2003.

    It is haraam to drink a lot or a little of it, even a single drop, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a little of it is haraam.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1865; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    The second type is beer that is not intoxicating, either because it is completely free of alcohol, or because it contains a minuscule amount of alcohol that does not reach the level of causing intoxication no matter how much a person drinks of it. The scholars have ruled that this is permissible.

  9. incoherent rambler

    Quadrant
    It is time to recognise the climate scam for what it is: a conspiracy to defraud on a monumental scale.

    Although climate itself is presenting its irrefutable opposing argument, failed prophets never willingly concede defeat until their mouths are stopped with the dust of reality. In this instance gob-stopping reality seems likely to take the form of severe winter weather leading to a widespread collapse of electrical power in an overloaded grid suffering from the underinvestment, malinvestment, restraints and neglect. All these stem from years of misguided climate policies. Until the crunch comes, the rent-seekers and their useful idiots in the press will rant and rage without pause, their livelihoods and careers hanging on their ability to perpetuate the hoax they foisted on the rest of us.

  10. outsider

    ‘Four out of five of ABC’s corporate managers reside in the harbour city.’
    It’s a fair bet they inhabit the leafier locales of that erstwhile fair city, certainly to the eastwards of the major ring road, or perhaps in the proximate vicinity of the CBD basket weavers suburbs.

    Maybe the jobs could carry a mandatory relocation to the strip between Lakemba and Auburn, and five kms either side of it. Jobs could carry danger money for local shopping excursions, it might still be worth it to the taxpayer for the real world education afforded them.

  11. Andrew

    Is there anything less sensitive to sexuality, religion, race and culture, than publicly and loudly abusing a white, married, Catholic, Australian woman, for not aborting the third child born in that one marriage, because having any children was bad enough, but having a third was a “crime against the planet”.

    Sounds like a job for 18C to me. And probably the more severe sections – incitement of hate etc. If this person is indeed so prominent, a career might be ruined or at least gravely impaired for their bigotry.

  12. Leigh Lowe

    Philippa Martyr

    #1518896, posted on November 20, 2014 at 11:54 pm

    And if we’re talking about Cat meetups, I should explain that I am a 16 stone black man called George who lives in Florida.

    Me too.

  13. Notafan

    Got to get up early MartinG 🙂
    I like to check out the kobane hashtag on twitter, a lot of propaganda but there is some good information as well.
    Some complain that other places and people are being forgotten, Mosul, Falluhjah, Raqqa etc but they are not, we want them all to be liberated.

  14. MartinG

    Notafan
    #1518973, posted on November 21, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Christopher Pyne should be campaigning for a significant increase of the size of the ABC Adelaide production unit and the reduction of the Sydney one.
    Think of the savings and the boost to the South Australian economy,
    Actually sell Ultimo and Ripponlea and move the lot to Adelaide.
    Think of the savings, Mr Scott.

    Naaa, tell Lambie that if she passes LNP legislation, the entire ABC will be moved to Tasmania, promote Christopher Pyne to the Ministry Of Stupid Useless Bastards.

  15. Notafan

    Srr my sister coped really hateful abuse in relation to her latish third child from the same and only marriage. Not from one person but quite a few!
    That there are educated professional people who think it is acceptable to abuse heavily pregnant women for the temerity of having a late ‘ all natural ‘ baby is beyond my comprehension,
    If only I’d been there when it happened.

  16. Stephen of Glasshouse

    Banning alcohol has probably killed untold numbers through water borne disease. At various stages of human history, it was safer to drink ales rather then polluted ground water..
    Chuck that one in a debate and watch the heads spinning around looking for mecca..

  17. Notafan

    I know Pyne is ‘hated’ it’s the natural thing for an LNP polly but I think he is doing a great job in education particularly in relation to curriculum reform.
    His performances on q and a have been excellent.
    The swirling claims of effeminacy, in relation to ‘mincing poodle’ from the supposed staunch supporters of the gay lobby just underlines the amorality of the left.

  18. Stephen of Glasshouse

    srr..we need more clues..

  19. Notafan

    Why would any rational person not assume that the ABC wasn’t a bloated bureaucracy with plenty of fat to trim?
    Scott’s playing politics by cutting the regionals, what is the bet that salary and on costs are significantly lower to produce footage in Adelaide than Sydney?

  20. Tintarella di Luna

    I’m shattered. In crumpet terms, I liked her nearly as much as Sharri Markson. But she’s just another shop window mannequin with no principles.

    Tom I know how shattered you must be that Michaelia Cash turns out to be …. um just another female politician, and a celluloid mannequin at that … This woman is not only continuing with a Julia Gillard brainfart called the Workplace Gender Equality Agency, actually promotes it in a video which looks like a pisstake but isn’t please check it out sorry can’t do links on my iPad away away in sunny climes

  21. Tintarella di Luna

    Maybe the jobs could carry a mandatory relocation to the strip between Lakemba and Auburn, and five kms either side of it. Jobs could carry danger money for local shopping excursions, it might still be worth it to the taxpayer for the real world education afforded them.

    I am gobsmacked that of all the places Ms Byrne And Ms Denton choose to live it’s an undetached abode in inner-Western Sydney when there are literally thousands upon thousands of undetached residences in Auburn – Auburn Central is an absolute hub of diversity

  22. Des Deskperson

    ‘I am a 16 stone black man called George who lives in Florida. ‘

    Who ever heard of a black man names ‘George’??

    http://www.2babynames.com/ghetto-names.shtml

  23. Notafan

    I’m not going to torture myself with a Michaela Cash gender equality video, not with that hairdo.

  24. MartinG

    Notafan
    #1518983, posted on November 21, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Got to get up early MartinG 🙂

    I do but Australia is four hours ahead of me.

    I like to check out the kobane hashtag on twitter, a lot of propaganda but there is some good information as well.

    I use #YPG, same thing with the propaganda and a lot of foreign language but you get reports of the battle and how many ISIL scum are killed.

    Some complain that other places and people are being forgotten, Mosul, Falluhjah, Raqqa etc but they are not, we want them all to be liberated.

    ISIL are bogged down in Kobani, at least for now. The Iraqi army are slowly finding their feet, so Mosul and Falluhjah will come under pressure, but it will take time.

    The coalition are more interested in cutting the link between Syria and Iraq at Qa’im and Bukama for the time being. The roads around Raqqa will become more dangerous for ISIL as time goes on.

    I don’t think things are as bad as some. From the beginning the Generals said this could take years.

  25. Tintarella di Luna

    Too out of breath to fully catch up with previous thread so not sure if anyone posted Mark Latham’s weekend wade through the lifestyle pages of Fairfax in the Fin Review yesterday. he can’t get the smell off his feet and ankles the article is headed ‘why left feminists don’t like kids’ and the paragraph that summed it up so well for was:
    .

    ..Thus left feminism is akin to a psychoneurotic disorder externalising personal of distress and deficiency into the demonising of children

    Shame the article is paywalles. Cue the frightbats

  26. MartinG

    Notafan
    #1518989, posted on November 21, 2014 at 7:53 am

    I know Pyne is ‘hated’ it’s the natural thing for an LNP polly but I think he is doing a great job in education particularly in relation to curriculum reform.
    His performances on q and a have been excellent.
    The swirling claims of effeminacy, in relation to ‘mincing poodle’ from the supposed staunch supporters of the gay lobby just underlines the amorality of the left.

    Yea, I was just pissed of with him for starting that stupid petition.

  27. Tintarella di Luna

    I’m not going to torture myself with a Michaela Cash gender equality video, not with that hairdo.

    Notafan it looks like it was produced by the Chaser team – Ms Cash’s mobile moues are just hysterical it looks likes she’s trying to keep a straight face but can’t but it is deadly serious — now I’ve seen her a couple of times I think that’s just her way.

  28. This week a colloquium was held at the Vatican involving various religious traditions whose aim was “to examine and propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman, in order to support and reinvigorate marriage and family life for the flourishing of human society.” It involved speakers such as Pope Francis, himself, as well as Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks. Of course, the colloquium was completely ignored by the MSM. I’ve included the video of the lecture given by Jonathan Sack which is well worth listening to. A link to the transcript can also be found with my post.

  29. Tintarella di Luna

    #1518996, posted on November 21, 2014 at 8:20 am
    Senator Cash launches WGEA Employer of Choice for Gender Equality with Video

    Thanks Tom ooooh ooooh I find I can do links takes a bit of nuancing but I can -I feel a bit Nerendra Modi-ish

  30. they just wanted to believe.

    My scepticism was from day one due to the utter glee held by the greenie telling me.

    He was excited!

    How do you undo that?

  31. Grigory M

    And if we’re talking about Cat meetups, I should explain that I am a 16 stone black man called George who lives in Florida.

    Can you arrange a Caribbean Cat Cruise out of Port Canaveral or Fort Lauderdale or Miami?

  32. Tintarella di Luna

    Of course, the colloquium was completely ignored by the MSM. I’ve included the video of the lecture given by Jonathan Sacks which is well worth listening to. A link to the transcript can also be found with my

    Thanks for this Dover – of course the main game of the mainstream media is the destruction of Western Civilisation – what could two great religions have to say in defence of relationships between men and women that would be of interest to the Western world?

  33. Tel

    The second type is beer that is not intoxicating, either because it is completely free of alcohol, or because it contains a minuscule amount of alcohol that does not reach the level of causing intoxication no matter how much a person drinks of it. The scholars have ruled that this is permissible.

    There’s halal beer on sale at the supermarket near my place. It won’t get you drunk, there might be some amusement to be had leaving a few cans in the glovebox in case you get pulled over for a breath test. Most Australians would not consider it real beer, but it might fool someone from a distance if they were in a hurry.

  34. Ant

    blogstrop, I share your frustration sometimes.

    I still find most comments here interesting and the talk from some libertarians/conservatives attacking the Abbott government I mostly find quite funny.

    I don’t believe these guys would vote for the Labor Party over the Coalition because of the latter’s many disappointments. That would be insane.

    It sounds to me like venting and people need to vent.

    I happen to think the most effective way is to write to individual MPs to make your views known, rather than write on blogs. I understand that this was spectacularly successful in booting Turnbull out over his crazy pro-Rudd ETS brainsnap and I know it gave me great satisfaction in being a participant in it.

    For me Catallaxy is too good not to tune in on a fairly regular basis. Better than Bolt and bordering on the kind of blog quality coming out of the US on places like Powerline.

  35. Rabz

    So, how’s all that out of control government spending on really, really necessary “things” going, you fat, stupid fuck?

    Budget Deficit heads for $40 billion

    Here’s some more free advice – cut government spending. NOW.

    This could be done in numerous ways, including:

    • Abolishing the ABC and privatising SBS
    • Abolishing the ACCC
    • Abolishing the AHRC
    • Abolishing the CSIRO
    • Abolishing the Fair Work Commission
    • Ceasing all foreign aid payments
    • Ceasing all subsidisation of so called “renewable energy” sources, including abolishing the RET and scrapping the Direct Action policy
    • Immediately ceasing any work on the NBN – this is quite possibly the most obscene example of governmental obstinacy, stupidity and overreach in this country’s history
    • Redesigning the NDIS, making it a voucher system and doing the same with the so called Gonski shambles
    • Scrapping the PPL scheme
    • Slashing the Australian Public Service

    And so on and so forth.

    Hop to it, you loathsome leftist twats.

  36. Rudiau

    There’s halal beer on sale at the supermarket near my place. It won’t get you drunk

    Ginger Beer? 🙂

  37. john constantine

    The abc put a lot of time effort and taxpayers dollars into developing the narrative that ‘this embarrassing government’ would be an international embarrasment, as it bungled diplomatically and was hated for being embarrassing and ‘having no mates’.

    After a year of international diplomatic success, putting ‘chinese speaking world class diplomat ‘ rudd and the high class steel cut oat muncher to shame, the abc has abandoned australias internationaldiplomacy, except to call out free trade deals as abject disapointments to the organic vegan halal sector, and to endlessly campaign for mass illegal immigration to overwhelm this embarrassing government with a tidal wave of bodies.

    This embarrassing government won a complete and total battle victory over the abc on the international diplomacy front, but the abc won the war by portraying the embarassing government as neglecting australians for international diplomacy.

  38. Rudiau

    Immediately ceasing any work on the NBN – this is quite possibly the most obscene example of governmental obstinacy, stupidity and overreach in this country’s history

    +1.
    Actually +1 the lot.

  39. john constantine

    changing australia forever.
    It was disturbing listening to the earnest victorian greens spokes-ingenue as she described the greens price for forming victorian government with labor as getting rid of 3 coal fired power plants in 2015.

    Not mothballing, where tory planet rapers could salvage them one day, but complete destruction of the power plants. change australia forever the green way, destroy the coal plants as soon as you win the election, so even if you lose the next election, there is only ruins left for the other mob.

    Sorta like the budget.

  40. cynical1

    Kurds should pullout of Kobane on a pre-arranged signal.

    Then, it should be pulverised.

    ISIS needs a demo from a strong horse.

    7th century barbarians against modern technology?

    It should be a one way slaughterhouse, not some
    modern re-enactment of Stalingrad.

    It’s like using a bucket of water when you have a fire engine…

  41. Shelley

    This hammering by the media – right across the media, ABC, local ABC and commercials – tv, radio and internet news – overcooking the fire danger (otherwised dressed up as climate change disaster) in all states will have the opposite effect. They are doing it every day – we even had a mild, windless 24 degree day recently and they were giving the same message. Problem is people will start to glaze over and not hear it, and then when there is real danger (lightning strikes, hot, windy days) people won’t pay the attention they otherwise might. That is a bit of a generalisation of people, as many on the land and in hilly/wooded areas aren’t stupid and have fire plans – but the media seriously need to pull back somewhat.

  42. thefrollickingmole

    Probablt been posted already but the Kippers appear to have caused a pretty massive smash in a by-election over in the UK.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/nov/20/rochester-and-strood-byelection-results-live-coverage

    As you can see on the table I posted earlier (see 9.42am), all the polls here have shown Ukip ahead, with leads varying from nine points to 15 points.

    Labour sources are even more emphatic. They are predicting that Ukip will get about 45% of the vote, the Tories 37/38/39% and that they will be squeezed down to about 10% or 11%.

    11% for the second of the “big 2” parties in the UK, thats pretty devastating, Id be guessing they will be declaring “we are 100% behind Ed” followed by a poor Ed having his kangaroo knitted savagely.

  43. Andreas

    Bolt goes soft in the head again:

    The merging of the far Left with far-Right Islamism is both natural and dangerous. It’s natural because the far-Left and far-Right are both collectivists – both seduced by the totalitarian temptation.

    Islamism (or Islam) is in no way “far-Right”. And ffs the collectivism in Islam doesn’t arise from the WESTERN Left-Right political spectrum but from its own centuries-old doctrine.

  44. MartinG

    cynical1
    #1519019, posted on November 21, 2014 at 8:59 am

    Kurds should pullout of Kobane on a pre-arranged signal.

    Good grief no. That’s the last thing they should, or will do.

    Then, it should be pulverised.

    Great, so victory in your eyes is just a pile rubble.

    ISIS needs a demo from a strong horse.

    So your plan is to destroy Kobani in order to hand it over to ISIL so they can then plant their black flag on the rubble and claim a great victory.

    7th century barbarians against modern technology?

    You haven’t got a clue what this war is all about.

    It should be a one way slaughterhouse, not some
    modern re-enactment of Stalingrad.

    Stalingrad was the grave yard of the German army on the eastern front.

    It’s like using a bucket of water when you have a fire engine…

    You are displaying your total ignorance of the subject at hand. Stop making fool of yourself.

  45. Token

    blogstrop, I share your frustration sometimes.

    So do many of us. I am angry at the Labor-Lites as the country can not afford another Greens/Labor government, yet they are pig headedly determined to follow the Ballieu path to 1 term. As we know once they get in the media & elites fight hard & do and anything to ensure they never lose power.

    Don’t go forever Bloggy, the place is better for ypur input.

  46. .

    Coopers Beer is halal certified.

    There is a point where have tell people to their face they are scammers.

    This is an old article but perhaps the best on the commercial nature of Halal, with some insinuation the money is being used to fund Madrassas.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/aussie-firms-paying-inflated-price-to-have-halal-certification/story-fncynjr2-1226743120181

    Again, the idea you can turn lefties against each other is always good:

    Australian animal welfare regulations require that animals be stunned before slaughter, but Islamic groups insist that stunning is non-Halal.

    As much as I am a critic of the Trade Practices Laws, you have to wonder why they are allowed to set minimum prices, but other businesses aren’t – it looks like a clear case of gutless decision makers who don’t want to look “bigoted”.

    If Harvey Norman and EB set a minimum price on the cost of a new video game, there would be outrage. The ACCC were incensed at a cardboard box cartel of all things.

  47. .

    Stephen of Glasshouse
    #1518987, posted on November 21, 2014 at 7:50 am
    Banning alcohol has probably killed untold numbers through water borne disease. At various stages of human history, it was safer to drink ales rather then polluted ground water..
    Chuck that one in a debate and watch the heads spinning around looking for mecca..

    Correct. From medieval times to early New England/American history, most people drnak small beer to get the hydration their body needed.

    Ah yes the faux pas of quoting Wikipedia. I swear to you I learnt of this in a younger age when I was forced to homebrew to be economical.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_beer

  48. Token

    Uber is another bunch of Silicon Valley hard lefties that have shown they are statists which will get into bed with government to cover up crimes by its drivers and prevent competition.

    I’m out.

    Uber’s Real Crime Is Giving In to Politics as Usual

    What actually troubles me the most about Uber is its newfound willingness to work with local governments to come up with regulations it can live with—but which put its existing and future competitors at a disadvantage. Not long ago, Uber was refreshing in its attitude that it didn’t need any government’s permission as long as it was serving customers’ needs who voluntarily downloaded its app and summoned its cars.

    … That model is one that gives clear advantages to Uber, which has more market share and political clout than its rivals such as Lyft and Sidecar. What the legislation does is establish “burdensome new ridesharing regulations” dictating minimum ages of drivers and other requirements that will make it more difficult for competitors to catch up to Uber or enter new markets in the first place.

  49. Brendan O’Neill, I fear, needs to ‘learn his limitations’. His latest, Why I am pro-choice references Aquinas and ‘the quickening’ and the line of argument presented echos the work of Robert Pasnau but appears to be unaware of the thorough fisking this line of argument received by John Haldane and Patrick Lee.

    I have more to say about his article but that will have to wait for another day.

  50. Token

    If Harvey Norman and EB set a minimum price on the cost of a new video game, there would be outrage. The ACCC were incensed at a cardboard box cartel of all things.

    The failure of GamerGate has proven that when young men care about an issue, they push back with the type of ferocity that the WestboroFemmanazis can not stand against.

  51. BTW, if your interested, Haldane and Lee’s responses to Pasnau can be found here and here.

  52. .

    JC
    #1518843, posted on November 20, 2014 at 11:03 pm
    Just to show that all politicians have dodgy and dopey policies, I have just been reading the Family First Facebook page and it is Bob Day’s (FF’s) policy that Australia needs to give 1% of its GDP away in Foreign Aid.

    Strike a light. He is so sensible on nearly every economic issue…

    Count it all up, it’s possible a net saving

    Quite possibly.

    Mk50 is right. We ought to be imperialist. Why are we giving money away to shitty little kingdoms and republics that can’t govern themselves – and we even host the airpower-less NZDF?

    Fuck them, become one of us and pay your own way within Federation. We shouldn’t have taken Southern Papua in the first place but we shouldn’t have given it up either.

  53. Token

    That ShirtStorm tanty by the WestboroFemmanazis is the gift which keeps giving.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a harsh critic of Islam’s treatment of women, said Wednesday that modern American feminism is focused on “trivial bullshit” and needs to be reclaimed.

    You can bet she won’t be invited on the Islamic State loving university campuses again soon.

  54. .

    Not long ago, Uber was refreshing in its attitude that it didn’t need any government’s permission as long as it was serving customers’ needs who voluntarily downloaded its app and summoned its cars.

    … That model is one that gives clear advantages to Uber, which has more market share and political clout than its rivals such as Lyft and Sideca

    Don’t worry – competition to Uber already exists. This will break the cartels just as Uber started to.

  55. Baldrick

    I’m speechless…

    @QuentinDempster
    Our Stories! Our future! Our ABC! Please join me to protest over Abbott/Murdoch cuts to the ABC: 12.30 pm Town Hall Square Sydney tomorrow.

  56. .

    The new definition of marriage no longer coincides with the Christian understanding of marriage between a man and woman. Our biblical faith is committed to upholding, celebrating, and furthering this understanding, which is stated many times within the Scriptures and has been repeatedly restated in our wedding ceremonies, church laws, and doctrinal standards for centuries. To continue with church practices that intertwine government marriage with Christian marriage will implicate the Church in a false definition of marriage.

    I like the cut of their jib. They’re correct. It makes sense even with the total absence of SSM as an issue.

    The legalities of it all can be written up in a contract the same way gays have been doing it for a while.

  57. Gab

    The legalities of it all can be written up in a contract the same way gays have been doing it for a while.

    Pity Senator LDP doesn’t push this line.

  58. C.L.

    I see at Bolt’s that Plibersek has started something called “Team Tanya.”

    It includes the CEO of Marie Stopes International – an organisation founded by a notorious Nazi sympathiser. Let’s imagine a Liberal starting a pressure group including a Nazi.

    Let’s also imagine having a Liberal Party that went on the attack over this.

    A Liberal Party that Demanded An Apology for Labor endorsing Nazism.

    This latest Nazi episode comes after Tony Burke endorsed the Nazi blood libel about Jews poisoning water wells.

  59. .

    Gab – not everyone will jump at some reforms. You need to be gentle and guide them towards something.

  60. Bruce of Newcastle

    Wonderful window into the mindset of the MP for Wentworth:

    Which federal electorates do most journalists live in? Sydney (1042), Wentworth (942) and Grandler (784).

    Nearly a thousand enthusiastically voting journos live in Turnbull’s electorate and he is Minister for the ABC? I think that just might be a slight conflict of interest somehow.

    Sell off the ABC now and pay down Labor’s debt.

  61. .

    Danzig_misfit
    #1518929, posted on November 21, 2014 at 1:10 am
    I am friends with some born to rule class. Married couple trying to dominate social media, not sure if the are arse hurt over the ALPBC or what. One claims to be a rocket scientist, but is all over global warming. I keep asking simple questions about recent trends, Stevenson screens, the mini ice age, interglacial, Germany solar, etc all gets ignored. I should be upset but they have turned my life mission into hammering them. The worse part is the followers ignore any relevant point and focus the lie. How so you deal? A sack and soap doesn’t work out you can’t green then.

    No , keep hammering away.

    Keep on being kind, gentle, rational, honest and concise with solid theory and evidence.

    I had an ALP voting mate go feral on me and I put up with his crap for months, now he’s a moderate Freidmanite libertarian who likes the LDP but is culturally conservative and would vote for someone like Paul Ryan or another genuine Tea Partier.

  62. C.L.

    Brendan O’Neill, I fear, needs to ‘learn his limitations’. His latest, Why I am pro-choice references Aquinas and ‘the quickening’ …

    This lie has been trotted out numerous times.

    The Church ALWAYS condemned abortion as morally evil.

    ALWAYS.

    It only discussed things like ‘ensoulment’ etc for the purposes of assigning appropriate penance to the woman guilty of having an abortion.

  63. egg_

    blogstrop
    #1518976, posted on November 21, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Miss your analyses of Nanny Franny/Michelle Grattan et al of yore (can’t listen to ABC radio any more, c. 4 years).
    Mr Bear is keeping up the good fight.

  64. Token

    Don’t worry – competition to Uber already exists. This will break the cartels just as Uber started to.

    I’ve been aware of the risk of unregulated drivers, but am disappointed Uber doesn’t see providing security over private data & protecting their passengers is going to be the oint of difference of the company which will ultimately win this market.

    There is a corporate culture at Uber which reflects its pathetic leadership values.

  65. egg_

    Danzig_misfit
    #1518929, posted on November 21, 2014 at 1:10 am

    Have they started working on yoof – Peppa the ManBearPig?

  66. Gab

    Gab – not everyone will jump at some reforms. You need to be gentle and guide them towards something.

    Uh-huh. And the way to do that is to introduce a bill that goes in the complete opposite direction of what is being espoused as guiding principles of the LDP. Sure, why not.

  67. Token

    This latest Nazi episode comes after Tony Burke endorsed the Nazi blood libel about Jews poisoning water wells.

    What was the exact quote? I’ve got a friend banging on about Tony Burke & I’ve been looking for Burke’s repugnant words so I may respond.

  68. I like the cut of their jib. They’re correct. It makes sense even with the total absence of SSM as an issue.

    It doesn’t really. The only reason we are talking about the definition of marriage now is SSM. The only reason some are qualifying the word with ‘Christian’ and ‘government’ is because the state is proposing to redefine something universally understood as marriage for millennia. But the attempt to qualify founders because what is being qualified is fundamentally different to the other but the qualifiers simply provide the illusion of continuity.

    The legalities of it all can be written up in a contract the same way gays have been doing it for a while.

    Indeed, they’re call civil unions, but they are not enough for proponents because what is wanted here is a transformation of marriage; what is being sought is not participation in the rights and obligations of marriage, but their fundamental transformation.

  69. .

    I don’t know why people here refer to polls, yet when it comes to gay marriage, THAT poll is compromised, but all the other ones aren’t?

    The big pollers show majority support, both gay and total population. The only big time poll which shows not an outright majority is essential, 49-40-11, and this was a while back.

    Anyway Gab, the LDP might vote against gay marriage – if the conscience provision is not taken up by the Parliament, I think David L ought to vote against it.

  70. egg_

    “Team Tanya”
    A bitter little pill
    After a while
    The build-up of bile
    Ends in unrepresentative swill…

  71. .

    dover_beach
    #1519057, posted on November 21, 2014 at 10:13 am
    I like the cut of their jib. They’re correct. It makes sense even with the total absence of SSM as an issue.

    It doesn’t really.

    Without gay marriage, progressives haven’t waged an assault on families and marriage since the late 1960s?

    The number of men opting out of marriage now is evidence enough that marriage has been poisoned by progressives. They downside is simply too risky.

  72. Snoopy

    Dot

    We shouldn’t have taken Southern Papua in the first place but we shouldn’t have given it up either.

    You can’t be serious Dot. How would two international land borders through some of the roughest, poorest, most disease -ridden land on Earth be of benefit to Australia?

  73. This lie has been trotted out numerous times.

    The Church ALWAYS condemned abortion as morally evil.

    ALWAYS.

    It only discussed things like ‘ensoulment’ etc for the purposes of assigning appropriate penance to the woman guilty of having an abortion.

    Indeed, and we can be sure that had Aquinas known what we have now learned about prenatal development he would have concluded that ‘ensoulment’ occurs at conception as the DNA of the mother and father combine to create an individuated human being.

  74. Snoopy

    Dot

    You need to be gentle and guide them towards something.

    🙂

  75. Geriatric Mayfly

    Feminazis focused on ‘trivial bullshit.’ Whoever posted that great article yesterday, “Social Justice Warriors,” is to be lauded. The Warriors actually go in and out of focus on multiple issues at a time, having no coherent arguments to support their stance on any. Forever, dodging and weaving, and if you actually pin them down, stand back, because the arsenal is loaded. Chauvinist, racist, bigot, homophobe, Islamophobe, privileged white male, sexist. Do I need to go on?

  76. Without gay marriage, progressives haven’t waged an assault on families and marriage since the late 1960s?

    Of course they have, but they had never, until now, sought its destruction though redefinition. In fact, they used to attack, some feminists still do, on the grounds of its complementarity.

  77. MemoryVault

    Rabz
    #1519014, posted on November 21, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Great list, Rabz. You left off scrapping the Job Service Provider industry ($3+ billion pa), and you advocated “reforming” NDIS and Gonski, which are both enormously expensive clusterfucks that will accomplish nothing but bureaucratic empire building and should be put down forthwith.
    Apart from that, great list.

    But aren’t you just a little bit concerned that you may have upset Blogstrop even further? I mean, he has already threatened to take his bat and ball and go home and never return if people don’t stop criticising Jesus and His Disciples Abbott and His Cabinet. And we couldn’t have that.

  78. Token

    I found the original article here linking the faux outrage over calling girls bossy with the Westboro outrage porn antics of femmanists.

    Rose Eveleth and the #Bossy Westboro Feminists

    Note that trailer trash site Jezebel is in the middle if this.

  79. Gab

    The big pollers show majority support, both gay and total population.

    Holy bums, Dotman, when did the “total population” vote on the issue of gay “marriage”?

  80. Ellen of Tasmania

    The only reason we are talking about the definition of marriage now is SSM.

    “A marriage pledge is being promoted at First Things, in which the undersigned ministers promise to cease cooperating with the civil magistrate on all things marriage. They will cease being agents for the state in weddings, and this in protest of the radical redefinition of marriage that is now underway in our culture.

    In part, the pledge says this:

    “Therefore, in our roles as Christian ministers, we, the undersigned, commit ourselves to disengaging civil and Christian marriage in the performance of our pastoral duties. We will no longer serve as agents of the state in marriage. We will no longer sign government-provided marriage certificates. We will ask couples to seek civil marriage separately from their church-related vows and blessings. We will preside only at those weddings that seek to establish a Christian marriage in accord with the principles ­articulated and lived out from the beginning of the Church’s life.

    Please join us in this pledge to separate civil marriage from Christian marriage by adding your name.”

    But . . . and you knew this was coming . . . we need to think this through more carefully. We need to have a strategic plan that is based on solid theological foundations, and it should be a plan that is designed to be implemented by churches, and not just by individual churchmen. Here are my reasons for thinking that this plan at First Things does not meet those criteria.

    First, we are departing the field before the battle is over. …”

    http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/in-which-first-things-does-some-fourth-things.html

  81. incoherent rambler

    Rabz, add ACMA to that list.

  82. .

    This is what I mean.

    All polls are good except for SSM, which is tainted.

    Really? All other polls are valid?

    Righto. I’ve got some Halal Pork to sell you lot…

  83. .

    How would two international land borders through some of the roughest, poorest, most disease -ridden land on Earth be of benefit to Australia?

    Why do we keep on giving them aid?

    Logically, we ought to excise the NT on the same grounds as not reincorporating PNG.

  84. egg_

    Chauvinist, racist, bigot, homophobe, Islamophobe, privileged white male, sexist. Do I need to go on?

    S.O.P. for the -ISM industry…
    Erstwhile in a TISM.

  85. Snoopy

    You have avoided my question, Dot.

  86. Rudiau

    This latest Nazi episode comes after Tony Burke endorsed the Nazi blood libel about Jews poisoning water wells.

    What was the exact quote? I’ve got a friend banging on about Tony Burke & I’ve been looking for Burke’s repugnant words so I may respond.

    Tony Burke betrays not just Israel but Australia

    TONY Burke has reignited the clash in Labor over the Middle East by saying Jewish settlements in the West Bank are a ploy to block a two-state solution, and are “trashing” the drinking water of Palestinians.

  87. .

    I think it is better than giving aid. If you don’t like it, then the other solution is to cut them off.

    Which might be the best thing for them, per Peter Bauer or Helen Hughes.

  88. Bruce of Newcastle

    The big pollers show majority support, both gay and total population.

    It is not a majority issue. It is an uncrossable line for a large minority, the Christians. It probably is for the other religions too: make sure your life insurance payments are up to date if you ask one in particular.

    Dot – Democracy only works if the majority does not tyrannize the minority. This is an issue which cannot be fought on popularity, since unless you burn every bible and koran on Earth they will bear witness against you.

    As I have said before there is an elegant and entirely libertarian answer: remove marriage from the secular statutes and make all conjugal arrangements civil unions or defacto.

  89. Token

    This is what I mean.

    All polls are good except for SSM, which is tainted.

    In the latest elections in the US the conservatives avoided Akin type traps by disabling the issue, not by inflaming it.

    Only a movement determined to be an irrelevant minority fringe group would make this issue its point of difference.

  90. .

    Bruce – you are just wrong on the polls, your proof is your insistence that there is a silent christian majority in Australia.

    That just isn’t true anymore. Why you take other polls at face value but not that is irrational.

    You are of course right about demarchy and deregulation.

  91. Token

    It is an uncrossable line for a large minority, the Christians. It probably is for the other religions too: make sure your life insurance payments are up to date if you ask one in particular.

    It is an uncrossable line for traditional Buddhists as well.

  92. ella

    Token @ 9.56am

    The authority of yesterday’s Feminists is grounded in the moral force of universalist ideas of the Enlightenment.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali still believes universalist ideas are a force for social transformation. She believes that reason should play a role in determining what is acceptable.

    Today’s Femininists are largely silent on the treatment of women of other cultures, as are the men of the Left. Both are actively hostile to Enlightenment ideas. They are moral relativists and they see Ayaan Hirsi Ali as a threat.

  93. harrys on the boat

    I did chuckle at Bolts Julie Birchall piece about all lefty men being beta, limp wristed, soft cocks – and with quite a savage explanation. I’m sure CL could run that through his fact checking software.

  94. Gab

    Democracy only works if the majority does not tyrannize the minority.

    Too late for western civilisations, I’m afraid, now that the minority ably and adeptly tyrannise the majority.

  95. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I don’t know how to do links, and I know we aren’t supposed to mention THAT war, but the Northern Territory Viet Nam Veteran’s Association is campaigning for those servicemen who were killed there, and buried in the nearest Commonwealth countries (Malaysia and Singapore), to be re interred in Australia.

  96. notafan

    If the government changed the definition of the word ‘marriage’ I would categorically refuse to enter into any addition ‘contract’ or civil ceremony after exchanging public vows.
    Doing so would validate the state definintion of ssmarriage.
    Humans have been marrying for thousands of years, even the Church got involved comparatively late in officiating in marriages, early 1000s if I recall correctly.
    What they gunna do?

  97. Leigh Lowe

    Feminazis focused on ‘trivial bullshit.’

    Might have been linked to before GM, but Fairfax Ladies Pages had a segment yesterday on whether your barista is sexist.
    I kid you not.
    If the barista automatically gives the short black to the man and the latte to the woman, he (or she) is sexist.

  98. thefrollickingmole

    This Orwell chap, I like the cut of his jib. Has he written anything else of note?

    “In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box.”

  99. Geriatric Mayfly

    Token, the difficulty is that most know, especially blokes, if you take on one of these bossy and implacable bitches, the network of ghastlies will then swing into action to counter such effrontery. Their campaign tactics are fairly standard, and you can usually see them coming from a good distance.
    But assault, humiliation and the kill is best effected by the rabid pack …see bloke with shirt.

  100. MemoryVault

    Democracy only works if the majority does not tyrannize the minority.

    Democracy by definition IS the tyranny of the majority over the minority.
    That is why we are a Constitutional Monarchy, where the power of the government (the majority) is limited by a written constitution.

  101. Token

    The authority of yesterday’s Feminists is grounded in the moral force of universalist ideas of the Enlightenment.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali still believes universalist ideas are a force for social transformation. She believes that reason should play a role in determining what is acceptable.

    Real femmanists are addressing issues as fundamental as those faced by the original femmanists.

    The ShirtStorm BaristaSex types are cowards avoiding the real fight.

  102. Leigh Lowe

    ZK2A …
    Open the page you want to link to in a separate window.
    Copy the address of the page …. that is the bit at the top of the page. The page you’re looking out now has the address of ….
    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/11/20/thursday-forum-november-20-2014/comment-page-3/#comment-1519102 ….
    Return to Cat page.
    Click on Link button.
    Paste in address you have copied.
    Type a description of your link. For example, “report on Vietnam War graves”
    Click “Close Tags” to close the description of your link.

  103. Bruce of Newcastle

    Bruce – you are just wrong on the polls, your proof is your insistence that there is a silent christian majority in Australia.

    Dot – You didn’t read anything I wrote. Where did I say “there is a silent christian majority in Australia”. I’ll help you out, this is what I wrote:

    It is an uncrossable line for a large minority, the Christians.

    Minority. Not majority. You need to see an optometrist. Furthermore I have myself never said anything about polls on marriage because I am consistent – it is not a popularity contest, it is a heartfelt issue underwritten by religious texts held to by billions of people.

    As I said democracy requires the minority to accept the relegation of powers to the majority. If that does not happen you get the Middle East. The Egyptian coup was the response to the muslim brotherhood winner takes all attitude. Democracy does not work when you do not have a loyal opposition, and the way to make them disloyal is by screwing them on stuff they cannot do anything about – especially when there is an alternative that is not like the arrogant simplistic dick-brained policy that you keep espousing.

    Misrepresenting what I write is a great way to get invective out of me.

  104. harrys on the boat

    Apologies, its Birchill, but her cutting paragraph on Labor/Green men is what we’ve been saying all along.

    “But, to get all Freudian, I think a lot of the reason that some left-wing men seem to have so much time for Islamism is to do not with race but sex — specifically, with suppressed feelings of resentment towards the march of feminism, which they could never in a million years admit to. After years of being yelled at by female comrades whenever they inquired about the likelihood of a hot beverage being imminent, imagine how excited they must get watching big bad men in balaclavas selling ‘slave girls’ in a sweltering marketplace.”

  105. cohenite

    Laws just interviewed George Christensen about his opposition to halal certification and gave him a hard time; and then interviewed Kayser Trad who blew it out of his arse as usual.

    Laws is typical of the msm. Stupid.

  106. egg_

    They gave me a long white
    When I ordered a short black
    I just sold my Viva
    With no room in the back…

  107. notafan

    Best thing about new trade agreements with India and China, there is a good chance that we might get better prices for beef and lamb from those countries and the halal certifiers controlled by Indonesia might suddenly find they are not needed wanted.
    No doubt there is a market for halal meat in India but perhaps Australia might get the muslims in India to pay extra for halal meat rather than getting everyone else to cover the exhorbitant cost.

  108. .

    notafan
    #1519100, posted on November 21, 2014 at 10:42 am
    If the government changed the definition of the word ‘marriage’ I would categorically refuse to enter into any addition ‘contract’ or civil ceremony after exchanging public vows.
    Doing so would validate the state definintion of ssmarriage.

    Um, no.

    Humans have been marrying for thousands of years, even the Church got involved comparatively late in officiating in marriages, early 1000s if I recall correctly.
    What they gunna do?

    Yeah right. What do you think this marriage was?

  109. MemoryVault

    Laws is typical of the msm. Stupid.

    You mean”cash for comments” Laws.
    He is many things, but stupid is not one of them – leastways not where money grubbing is concerned. If Laws is promoting/defending/advocating something, you can bet there is a quid in it for him.

  110. .

    Bruce you said “not a majority issue”, if you meant “few people really care”, you’re probably right.

    I took it to mean “does not have majority support” at the time. Which is why I thought your reasoning was bizzare.

    Democracy? Demarchy is better.

  111. Slayer of Memes

    I see at Bolt’s that Plibersek has started something called “Team Tanya.”

    Remember when The Slovenian Hag (along with Tits Shortcrust and the rest of the Liars Pardee and their Greeenfilth offsiders, like Ass-Bandit, Tubbsy Milne, and Doris Bagshawe) screeched about how silly Abbott’s “Team Australia” slogan was. And yet now we have these new ‘teams’ popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm (Team Bandt, Team Lambie, now Team Tanya…)

    Their complete lack of self-awareness over what they said only a matter of weeks ago, combined with the outright hypocrisy of now jumping onto the bandwagon of something that they were so critical of from a conservative politician, knows no bounds…

  112. All polls are good except for SSM, which is tainted.

    Really? All other polls are valid?

    No, but I would suggest that a great many polls are tainted by how they’re worded, and this would include polls on SSM.

  113. Leo G

    I see at Bolt’s that Plibersek has started something called “Team Tanya.”

    Surely you mean Teamster Tanya?

  114. cohenite

    If Laws is promoting/defending/advocating something, you can bet there is a quid in it for him.

    That’s a point; maybe Laws is halal certified; personally.

  115. Bruce of Newcastle

    Dot – Why do you intend, as an LDP partisan, to impose your religion on me?

    That is what you are doing. I don’t force you to go too church each Sunday, why do you want to force me to accept something which is against the Bible? Especially when you don’t have to – just remove the word ‘marriage’ from the act and its done – everyone is then equal.

    How can you call yourself a libertarian when you persecute a significant minority of the electorate for your own selfishness?

  116. notafan

    I don’t agree Dot. If I don’t believe that the state definition of marriage is valid then why would I participate in it.
    From my readings muslims only participate in ‘legal’ marriage if it suits them now. Shia short term marriages are contracted with an iman. ( A friend of my daughters was very close to entering one of these here in Australia.)
    Even first marriages between muslims aren’t necessary documented at the Births Deaths and Marriages office.
    As for the second part of your response I don’t actually understand your meaning?
    Are you asking why the church stepped in and started officiating ? I know why but that has to to with Catholic views on valid marriage and divorce, and people trying to muddy the waters about eariler relationships.
    If I was a Buddhist in Cambodia for example I might still have a tradition exchange of vows today in front of witnesses and be confident that I had entered a valid marriage.

  117. Makka

    ‘No, but I would suggest that a great many polls are tainted by how they’re worded, and this would include polls on SSM.’

    Correct, the Sir Humphrey technique of polling.

    When the state is contemplating drastic change to the bedrock of our society ie structure of marriage, they have a duty to put it to a referendum. For many, possibly a majority, this is a fundamental life issue. For many it is a strong article of their faith . It is a divisive issue and needs to be put to bed.

  118. Slayer of Memes

    For those that worry about mentioning the unmentionable, and thereby summoning he-who-should-be-scrolled…

    I believe the Doomlord has finally seen the light and removed posting permissions from that individual after a number of his posts were deemed to be trolling

  119. Token

    That is what you are doing. I don’t force you to go too church each Sunday, why do you want to force me to accept something which is against the Bible?

    The largest amount of voluntary work is done by people of good heart acting upon their religious faith.

    How stupid is it for a fledgling party to make its point of difference the concept they are fundamentally bad due to”outdated” values?

    I can understand Yobbo making such a politically suicidal mistake, but you are much more politically savvy.

  120. C.L.

    TONY Burke has reignited the clash in Labor over the Middle East by saying Jewish settlements in the West Bank are a ploy to block a two-state solution, and are “trashing” the drinking water of Palestinians.

    He also applauded Palestinian terrorists for “engaging in politics in different ways.”

    For those who are political advocates within Palestine itself, I will never know the bravery that comes with putting your life on the line and at risk, in engaging in politics in different ways.

    Nudge nudge, wink wink.

    The Liberals said nothing about this chilling utterance from Labor’s Leader of Opposition Business in the House. It will be recalled that last year Liberal MP Peter Phelps was castigated for acknowledging Pinochet’s role in destroying communism “in different ways.”

  121. Gab

    Team Tanya.”

    Team Taqiyya is more appropriate.

  122. C.L.

    At the ABC’s “Religion and Ethics” site: ISIS is not evil.

    The Truth About Evil.

    John Gray is one of Britain’s most exhilarating and controversial public intellectuals. Formerly Emeritus Professor of European Thought at the London School of Economics, he is the author of many books, including Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals, The Immortalization Commission: Science and the Strange Quest to Cheat Death and The Silence of Animals: On Progress and Other Modern Myths.

  123. Token

    These ate the Guardians” of our democratic freedoms:

    One of the documents provides smoking gun proof that the Obama White House and the Eric Holder Justice Department colluded to get CBS News to block reporter Sharyl Attkisson. Attkisson was one of the few mainstream media reporters who paid any attention to the deadly gun-running scandal.

  124. Steve

    What I’m getting around to, is that I really should quit the habit, as I feel it’s not doing me any good…
    …I’ll try again to just go away, maybe sometimes lurk (dangerous!), and say nothing, keep the urge to comment on the leash, and not be provoked by the nihilists. I think by now you know my views anyway.

    I felt the same way Blogstrop. I went away for a while, but there are too few intelligent places to read about Australian politics and economics. And now I know which contributors it is best to just scroll by without reading a word of their comments, saving myself the blood boiling feeling. And I am sure lots of others do the same with my postings! Comment away, develop a thick skin, or scrolly, scrolly, past the putrid ones.
    Get stuck into it.

  125. C.L.

    Maria del Rosario Cayetana Paloma Alfonsa Victoria Eugenia Fernanda Teresa Francisca de Paula Lourdes Antonia Josefa Fausta Rita Castor Dorotea Santa Esperanza Fitz-James Stuart y de Silva Falco y Gurtubay – the Duchess of Alba – dead at 88.

    A rather extraordinary woman.

  126. C.L.

    Pope Francis: time to end capitalism and help the poor … or Gaia will destroy us all.

    DRUDGE: Doomsday pope warns man’s greed will destroy world.

    ROME (AFP) – Pope Francis warned Thursday that planet earth would not forgive the abuse of its resources for profit, urging the world’s leaders to rein in their greed and help the hungry — or risk a doomsday scenario in which nature would exact revenge.

    “God always forgives, but the earth does not,” the Argentine pope told the Second International Conference on Nutrition (CIN2) in Rome, a three-day meeting aimed at tackling malnutrition, a global scourge which afflicts poor and rich alike.

    “Take care of the earth so it does not respond with destruction,” he warned representatives from 190 countries gathered for the conference organised by the UN food agency (FAO) and World Health Organization (WHO) in the Italian capital.

    The 77-year old, a staunch defender of the poor and downtrodden, said the world had “paid too little heed to those who are hungry…”

    “It is also painful to see the struggle against hunger and malnutrition hindered by ‘market priorities’, the ‘primacy of profit’, which reduce foodstuffs to a commodity like any other, subject to speculation and financial speculation in particular,” Francis said.

    So … the best way to feed the poor is to abolish markets.

  127. MemoryVault

    And now I know which contributors it is best to just scroll by without reading a word of their comments

    Perhaps it would help if those of us who don’t equate Abbott with the Second Coming of the Messiah, identified ourselves in some way? Would a little yellow Star of David on our avatars help?

    What say you, Dot, JC, Rabz Doomlord, et el?

  128. Steve

    MV
    I would reply to your comment, but I scrolled past it. Sorry.

  129. Bruce of Newcastle

    Seven News just now unintentionally hilarious. The weather guy does the weather then says ‘breaking news NOAA says 2014 will be the hottest year evah!’

    Two stories later they have snowmaggedon in the US, with some journo interviewing a lady aged about 45 or 50 – he had to stand on the street and she peeked out her window because of the huge layer of snow between them. Says she ‘I’ve lived here my whole life and I’ve never seen anything like this’. Newsreader then says ‘and there’s more snow on the way’.

    Must be very hot snow.

  130. goatjam

    As I have said before there is an elegant and entirely libertarian answer: remove marriage from the secular statutes and make all conjugal arrangements civil unions or defacto.

    Exactly what I have been arguing, The government can administer “civil unions”, provide the legal framework that people require and leave the “marriage” part to the non-secular organisations.

  131. MemoryVault

    MV
    I would reply to your comment, but I scrolled past it. Sorry.

    That’s okay Steve – I’ll still read yours – and Blogstrop’s.
    I read ALL the comments – not just the ones I agree with.
    I prefer to be informed, not indoctrinated.

  132. incoherent rambler

    Bruce, the snow is just denier misinformation and ignorance. Didn’t you know?

    http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2014/11/20/they-could-use-some-global-warming-in-buffalo-ny/

  133. Makka

    ‘The government can administer “civil unions”, provide the legal framework that people require and leave the “marriage” part to the non-secular organisations.’

    Until such a demand is tested there is no need. If society caved in to the strident demands of every well organised but vocal extremist minority, we would be all be moving toward life in very overcrowded grass huts using fire sticks for light and cooking (appeasing Greens). If a referendum showed support for such a change then I’m sure non- secular solutions will be made available.

  134. Bruce of Newcastle

    A rather extraordinary woman.

    I like her style:

    Yet the Duchess always insisted she was not rich: “I have a lot of artworks, but I can’t eat them, can I?” she once said.

    Heh, if the referendum had gotten up she could’ve been Queen of Scotland for a few weeks.

  135. egg_

    MemoryVault
    #1519170, posted on November 21, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    +1

    Missed the facebook wall of lame cacophony – shan’t bother with that one.

  136. Remember when The Slovenian Hag (along with Tits Shortcrust and the rest of the Liars Pardee and their Greeenfilth offsiders, like Ass-Bandit, Tubbsy Milne, and Doris Bagshawe) screeched about how silly Abbott’s “Team Australia” slogan was.

    Even funnier when one considers that before Abbott’s “Team Australia” there was a;
    “Team Rudd”, and before that in mighty Qld we had a,
    “Team Beattie”

  137. Steve

    MV
    It is not about scrolling past contributions I disagree with. For example, your posts don’t contain boring, predictable abuse, and the same arguments hammered home to the point of nausea. So I read yours.
    It is about saving my blood pressure, when I know that we are all unlikely to change anyone’s mind here. You have your experiences, they inform your opinion. I have mine. It is interesting to read other peoples views, but by our age, we are all pretty set about the basics, I should think.

  138. calli

    Ah…to scroll or not to scroll. That is the question…

    Just pick the bits of interest and speed read the rest. There is treasure trove on this blog. My knowledge has widened from reading it. But my screen occasionally suffers cruel and unusual coffee punishment.

  139. KaaBee

    Coopers have advised me their beer and DIY products cannot be Halal certified but that their bulk malt is certified because certification is required by buyers of the product in Australia and overseas. Quite a pity really as I preferred they stout to any others I have tried and I quite enjoyed their Pale ale.

  140. Steve

    For example above, how many more references to Bill Shortens’ mammary glands, lactation, or variations on spelling plibeseks’ name do I have to read before the joke wears thin?
    Funny the first time, a cute nod of acknowledgement the second or third time, lazy, predictable and boring after a dozen or so repeats.

  141. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Yet the Duchess always insisted she was not rich: “I have a lot of artworks, but I can’t eat them, can I?” she once said.

    Anyone who can leave each of her children a share in 2.2 BILLION POUNDS and each of said children their own PALACE isn’t likely to be queuing at Centrelink for income support.

  142. .

    notafan
    #1519126, posted on November 21, 2014 at 11:12 am
    I don’t agree Dot. If I don’t believe that the state definition of marriage is valid then why would I participate in it.

    I agree. I’m Catholic and I don’t like the marriage laws as they are. I should be free to choose a canon law marriage.

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #1519125, posted on November 21, 2014 at 11:11 am
    Dot – Why do you intend, as an LDP partisan, to impose your religion on me?

    WTF are you talking about Bruce? Gay marriage is popular and no one is being coerced to do anything. If the conscience provisions are kicked down, David ought to vote against the bill.

  143. goatjam

    If society caved in to the strident demands of every well organised but vocal extremist minority . . .

    We are not talking about “society” caving in (whatever that means). We are talking about the grubbermint caving in and if nothing else, grubbermints are very good at caving in to ‘well organised but vocal extremist minoritys”. They do it all the time.

    Do you really believe that no government, in all their future incarnations, will ever cave in? Not ever?

    You honestly think that every future government of whatever party will remain stalwart defenders of the traditional definition of marriage, do you? With no exceptions, even if they are trailing in the polls and desperate for votes?

    I have to say that is quite a naive notion.

    Of course if you are incorrect, by the time you realise you were wrong it will be too late and it will be game over. No turning back then.

    Personally, I expect the current government to be the one that caves in, despite Tony Abbott and his much maligned Catholicism.

  144. MemoryVault

    You have your experiences, they inform your opinion. I have mine. It is interesting to read other peoples views, but by our age, we are all pretty set about the basics, I should think.

    We are never too old to change, Steve. Even if it is only incremental.
    I did a 180 degree shift on live sheep/cattle exports after something I read here on the Cat.

    More dramatically, I’ve spent most of my life as what might be called a “Fervent Libertarian”. Back in the 80’s I imported 30,000 copies of Bastiat’s ‘The Law”, and distributed them to my readers, at cost. I distributed over a 1,500 copies free – to every sitting politician, state and federal, and every mainstream journalist I could identify.

    It’s only been in following the debate here over the last few months – both sides – that I’ve come to realise that pure libertarianism, like pure democracy, capitalism, communism, or any other ‘ism, just can’t work as a basis for government, on its own.

  145. Bruce of Newcastle

    WTF are you talking about Bruce? Gay marriage is popular and no one is being coerced to do anything.

    Stealing movies is also popular, which doesn’t mean it is legal. The minority of people who make 200 million dollar movies don’t actually like the majority stealing their work for no recompense. I don’t like you stealing a tenet of my religion without my acquiescence, which you will not get while I live and breathe. I hope you enjoy your time in Hell. It will be long and hot.

    Find an acceptable compromise or apply a spade to your own cloaca. Idiot.

  146. H B Bear

    TONY Burke has reignited the clash in Labor over the Middle East by saying Jewish settlements in the West Bank are a ploy to block a two-state solution, and are “trashing” the drinking water of Palestinians.

    He also applauded Palestinian terrorists for “engaging in politics in different ways.”

    For those who are political advocates within Palestine itself, I will never know the bravery that comes with putting your life on the line and at risk, in engaging in politics in different ways.

    Nudge nudge, wink wink.

    Tony Burqua does a bit of camel whistling.

  147. WTF are you talking about Bruce? … no one is being coerced to do anything.

    No one currently is being coerced to do anything either, but if your view prevails we will shortly be coerced to recognize a type of relationship that falls outside of the nature of marriage as marriage.

  148. Littledozer

    Eltham is the most marginal seat from the last election and the Lib’s have run a strong campaign in that electorate.

    I don’t think its coincidence that the Labor candidate’s campaign office is next door to the pre-polling voting centre. It’s obvious they had some knowledge of where it would be.

  149. goatjam

    Gay marriage is popular and no one is being coerced to do anything. If the conscience provisions are kicked down, David ought to vote against the bill.

    Or else they could let your “conscience provisions” go through (for now) and then get rid of them later during the next phase of their relentless campaign to destroy the institution of marriage. All they will need to do is start arguing that allowing priests the right to refuse to marry gays is “discrimination” and that considering it is legal for men to marry each other then priests have a legal obligation to provide that service on a non-discriminatory basis.

    That’s how these people work.

  150. Peter

    Democracy by definition IS the tyranny of the majority over the minority..

    Not necessarily, no. Not when the majority acts with constraint and consideration.

    That is why we are a Constitutional Monarchy, where the power of the government (the majority) is limited by a written constitution

    This is one of the best mechanisms by which we ensure that the power of the majority is restrained.
    Democracy and Constitution are not mutually exclusive. Not when the method for changing both Government AND the Constitution is democratic.

    Nope…..

  151. I swear to you I learnt of this in a younger age when I was forced to homebrew to be economical.

    Let this be proof once and for all that Dot is a good guy.

    I never trust a man who doesn’t drink. Is that waaacist?

  152. calli

    Can’t agree with you on the nicknames, Steve. They come loaded with the observed attributes of the owner and speak volumes in a word. My favourite is The Pieman…it sums up all the entitlement and self indulgence in a single word. Pliberserk is another…seen the lovely lady in QT lately?

    But the the crowning glory of the great Aussie nickname has to be Abbott666…encapsulates the mindset of the Left like no other.

  153. goatjam

    But the the crowning glory of the great Aussie nickname has to be Abbott666…encapsulates the mindset of the Left like no other.

    The funniest part about the lefts visceral hatred of Abbott666 is that he is far more of a leftist than both Hawke and Keating, yet they hate him with the heat of 1000 volcanoes.

    Talk about being divorced from reality.

  154. stackja

    goatjam
    #1519199, posted on November 21, 2014 at 12:37 pm
    Gay marriage is popular and no one is being coerced to do anything. If the conscience provisions are kicked down, David ought to vote against the bill.

    Or else they could let your “conscience provisions” go through (for now) and then get rid of them later during the next phase of their relentless campaign to destroy the institution of marriage. All they will need to do is start arguing that allowing priests the right to refuse to marry gays is “discrimination” and that considering it is legal for men to marry each other then priests have a legal obligation to provide that service on a non-discriminatory basis.

    That’s how these people work.

    Which government wants to charge priests with “discrimination”? Courts will be full. MPs will be bombarded with many angry comments.

  155. “It is also painful to see the struggle against hunger and malnutrition hindered by ‘market priorities’, the ‘primacy of profit’, which reduce foodstuffs to a commodity like any other, subject to speculation and financial speculation in particular,” Francis said.

    Good. From now on, all meals in the Vatican are free.

    Just go and help yourselves, tourists; no one will mind.

    Enjoy.

  156. Which government wants to charge priests with “discrimination”? Courts will be full.

    They haven’t been, so far. Nor have people taken to the streets to protest against this.

    MPs will be bombarded with many angry comments.

    Who cares?

  157. MemoryVault

    Not necessarily, no. Not when the majority acts with constraint and consideration.

    The difference between a crowd and a mob is often just one rabble-rouser and about five minutes.

  158. notafan

    Or else they could let your “conscience provisions” go through (for now) and then get rid of them later during the next phase of their relentless campaign to destroy the institution of marriage. All they will need to do is start arguing that allowing priests the right to refuse to marry gays is “discrimination” and that considering it is legal for men to marry each other then priests have a legal obligation to provide that service on a non-discriminatory basis.

    And that is exactly what Victorian Labor will try to do to non-government schools, force them to hire/retain teachers who openly flout the ethos of said school.
    Of course only Catholic and ‘Christian’ schools will get targetted, no-one will try and force muslim schools to employ open homosexuals or people living in non sharia defacto relationships.

  159. Peter

    Legislating gay marriage is – in practice – increasing the regulation of human relationships, rather than decreasing it. The push for it is not about increasing human freedom, but about reducing the freedom of those who wish to object. Not just those who object to being required to provide services to it, but those who have a need to assert that what homos do is fundamentally different to what heteros do.

    As such, it is fundamentally opposed to principle of Libertarianism that human freedom should be increased and regulation reduced. If the LDP was serious about reducing regulation, it would be seeking to remove regulation from marriage, not expanding it.

    To forestall further bullshit…. No. Access to facilities that other people have paid for – whether church buildings or Centrelink payments is not a “Liberty” issue.

  160. Bruce of Newcastle

    Dot – A lot of people would be attracted to libertarianism if the LDP was accommodating to their reasonable concerns. Acting like a pack of arrogant SOB’s is not the libertarian way (as I an outsider appreciate it to be).

    My intention in all things is to use innovative and lateral thinking to find an answer which fits the aim of the policy while meeting the needs of people who otherwise might find it a game killer. That is how you maximise your membership and vote numbers. It is use of the Mk 1 brain cell. Try it, you’ll like it. Being dogmatic is not the way to succeed…when dogmatism is unnecessary, which for the LDP in this case it isn’t. I must fight for my position because I believe the Bible. That is my choice. My appreciation of the political landscape is this does not necessarily stop me from being a libertarian, so long as the LDP (as the local libertarians) do not have positions which I cannot in conscience live with.

    That is the problem with the LDP “marriage” policy. Its not possible to accept and be a bible believing Christian IMHO, although that is a metric each of us has to measure against our own consciences.

    On things like the LDP immigration policy I just think its stupid, as do other Cats, but that is not a killer issue. The marriage problem is, we literally cannot accept it and remain faithful to our beliefs. Yet you, as an LDP person can move just a small distance and make it acceptable to us all, by making “civil unions” or “conjugal contracts” or “interrelational agreements” the law. Why is it so hard?

  161. Peter

    The difference between a crowd and a mob is often just one rabble-rouser and about five minutes.

    So?

    Your distinction is still invalid.

  162. notafan

    Pope Francis is utterly wrong, why would farmers grow crops if there was no likelihood of profiting from their labour?

    Last Sunday we heard the parable of the talents , the idea of profit seems pretty biblical to me.

    Perhaps he is referring to a very specific set of circumstances where markets are manipulated, like Venezeula?

  163. thefrollickingmole

    Philippa Martyr

    So no more $5 cans of coke for sale outside the vatican then?

    Note he said nothing about the scientific breakthrough (almost certainly funded by eeeevil capitalists via their taxes) that might improve rice yields by 30%

    http://phys.org/news/2014-11-rice-yield-percent-enabled-photosynthesis.html

    Maybe we should return to Lysenkoism!

    Isaak Izrailevich Prezent, a main Lysenko theorist, presented Lysenko in Soviet mass-media as a genius who had developed a new, revolutionary agricultural technique. In this period, Soviet propaganda often focused on inspirational stories of peasants who, through their own canny ability and intelligence, came up with solutions to practical problems. Lysenko’s widespread popularity provided him a platform to denounce theoretical genetics and to promote his own agricultural practices. He was, in turn, supported by the Soviet propaganda machine, which overstated his successes and omitted mention of his failures. This was accompanied by fake experimental data supporting Lysenkoism from scientists seeking favor and the destruction of counter-evidence to Lysenko’s theories. Instead of performing controlled experiments, Lysenko claimed that vernalization increased wheat yields by 15%, solely based upon questionnaires taken of farmers.

  164. johanna

    I don’t think that gay marriage is “popular.” I suspect that most people just don’t care much one way or the other, and therefore don’t oppose it. Their (rational, IMO) view is – if they want to get married, so what? The vast majority of the population have more pressing issues to deal with than whether a couple of queens or dykes want to get wed.

    That said, the wedge into forcing people like cake-makers or wedding venues to accept their business is something that those same people would regard as BS. That is a front on which a campaign could be fought, and won.

    Oh, and thanks C.L. for the link about the Duchess of Alba. Truth is surely stranger than fiction. What a dame!

  165. MemoryVault

    Or else they could let your “conscience provisions” go through (for now) and then get rid of them later during the next phase of their relentless campaign to destroy the institution of marriage.

    Remember when grubbermint put a small additional tax on tobacco, to help deter smokers, and recoup some of the alleged increased health costs? Remember when grubbermint put a small additional tax on fuels to help pay for roads? Remember when grubbermint introduced a temporary tax on income to finance a war? Remember when grubbermint put a temporary tax on payrolls, to finance a different war?

    No grubbermint has ever been given a power it didn’t ultimately expand and abuse.

  166. Peter

    Dot – A lot of people would be attracted to libertarianism if the LDP was accommodating to their reasonable concerns. Acting like a pack of arrogant SOB’s is not the libertarian way (as I an outsider appreciate it to be).

    That is very much my argument, too.

    Libertarianism is not going to have the major effect on the Australian political landscape that we desire, if the most prominent “Libertarian” party insists on frightening the horses. You can talk all you like about the LDP’s “sensible” policies, but the three signature polices are gay marriage (authoritarian), immigration, (stupid and denying Australians the right tobe concerned what kind of people enter the country) and firearms (sensible, but CCW is a Bridge Too Far when the majority are yet to be made comfortable with something as reasonable as getting rid of the Registry.)

  167. thefrollickingmole

    A little more on the wisdom of central planning..

    From 1934 to 1940, under Lysenko’s admonitions and with Stalin’s approval, many geneticists were executed (including Isaak Agol, Solomon Levit, Grigorii Levitskii, Georgii Karpechenko and Georgii Nadson) or sent to labor camps. The famous Soviet geneticist Nikolai Vavilov was arrested in 1940 and died in prison in 1943.[9] Hermann Joseph Muller (and his teachings about genetics) was criticized as a bourgeois, capitalist, imperialist, and promoting fascism so he left the USSR, to return to the USA via Republican Spain.

    In 1948, genetics was officially declared “a bourgeois pseudoscience”;[10] all geneticists were fired from their jobs (some were also arrested), and all genetic research was discontinued. Nikita Khrushchev, who claimed to be an expert in agricultural science, also valued Lysenko as a great scientist, and the taboo on genetics continued (but all geneticists were released or rehabilitated posthumously). The ban was only waived in the mid-1960s.

    Thus, Lysenkoism caused serious, long-term harm to Soviet knowledge of biology. It represented a serious failure of the early Soviet leadership to find real solutions to agricultural problems, throwing their support behind a charlatan at the expense of many human lives.

    Lucky no filthy capitalists were involved eh? or there might have been food problems in the USSR.

  168. Peter

    Pope Francis is utterly wrong, why would farmers grow crops if there was no likelihood of profiting from their labour?

    Thankyou for making that statement.

    If I cannot make a profit from my labour, why should I engage in anything more than susbsistance farming to supply the needs of my immediate family.

    I am not one who hyperventilates about the value of property donated to the Catholic Church over the centuries, but the old boy should not make that kind of statement while surrounded by the fruits of other people’s profits.

  169. stackja

    Philippa Martyr
    #1519212, posted on November 21, 2014 at 12:47 pm

    Which government wants to charge priests with “discrimination”? Courts will be full.

    They haven’t been, so far. Nor have people taken to the streets to protest against this.

    MPs will be bombarded with many angry comments.

    Who cares?

    50 years since the ‘Goulburn Strike’: Catholic and education politics
    By John Carmody 12 August, 2012

    “On Friday, 13 July, 1962, Bishop John Cullinane, the Auxiliary Bishop of Canberra-Goulburn, authorised the closing of the six Goulburn Catholic schools for six weeks until the end of term, and instructed the 2000 students to present themselves to the nearby government schools for enrolment, which they did on Monday, 16 July. The tipping point had been State government insistence over several years on improvements to a toilet block at a local Catholic primary school. Amid great excitement and furore, 640 Catholic students were enrolled with considerable professionalism and good-will but there was no room for the remainder.

    After his recent retirement, for instance, Archbishop Hickey of Perth, for instance, was quoted as saying that he regretted that his worries about possible financial repercussions for the Church played a part in his not being more active in the public square. There is no such thing as a free lunch.”

    And the possibility of earthquakes needs always to be kept in mind.

  170. t

    “…Almost any English public intellectual or Fairfax/ABC/SBS/Greenfilther would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box”

    I turn to Orwell at times like these.

  171. john constantine

    The same abc that loathes the military, and declares that as globalist citizens of the borderless world, the military is disposable–yes that abc, has just earnestly supported labor campaigning to spend billions building military equipment in australia.

    There is no apparent conflict between abc narratives mocking the great abbottbeast for military spending, but cheers gillards hunter-killer submarine fleet,gillards air warfare destroyers,amphibious assault craft… it seems that socialism means supplying tax dollars to sheltered union ticket workshops building things the socialists will never allow to be deployed.

  172. Tintarella di Luna

    Meanwhile while my comment is in moderatin

    “…Almost any English public intellectual or Fairfax/ABC/SBS/Greenfilther would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box”

    I turn to Orwell at times like these.

  173. MemoryVault

    the three signature polices are gay marriage (authoritarian), immigration, (stupid and denying Australians the right tobe concerned what kind of people enter the country) and firearms (sensible, but CCW is a Bridge Too Far when the majority are yet to be made comfortable with something as reasonable as getting rid of the Registry.)

    Too true, Peter.
    Gay marriage has merely been the “thin end of the wedge” everywhere else. To claim things will be different here is the height of hubris.
    Immigration – that is, Muslim immigration has been a nation destroying disaster wherever it has been allowed to happen. Again to argue for a different outcome here is naive.
    CCW – Gun control didn’t happen overnight. It came in incrementally. If it is to be wound back, it will have to be the same way – in baby steps.

  174. Bruce of Newcastle

    Lucky no filthy capitalists were involved eh? or there might have been food problems in the USSR.

    Which is probably why Ukraine and Russia are presently fighting a war.

    The Holodomor

  175. Slayer of Memes

    Oh no, Obummer is definately NOT a terrorism enabler…

    When the U.S. Army swapped five captured Taliban commanders in exchange for captured U.S. Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl in May, the deal ignited a political firestorm. Well, the latest revelations in today’s Washington Times may have poured some gasoline on it.

    The Times’ Bill Gertz is reporting that the Pentagon not only swapped captured enemy commanders, but they also offered a ransom to the Taliban for Bergdahl’s release.

    “The ransom payment was first disclosed by Rep. Duncan Hunter in a Nov. 5 letter to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel. Mr. Hunter stated in the letter that Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) made the payment covertly as part of a release deal. But the money was stolen by the Afghan intermediary claiming to represent the Haqqani terrorist network.

    ‘Given the significance of this matter, as well as the fact that Pentagon officials have denied that a payment was even considered — and you also said you were unaware of any such attempt — I ask you to immediately inquire with JSOC to determine the specific order of events,’ said Mr. Hunter, California Republican and member of the House Armed Services Committee.”

    A poll in August showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans do not believe the U.S. government should pay ransom to terrorists in exchange for the release of hostages.

    In fact, many experts believe that paying ransoms will only encourage more kidnappings and other acts of terrorism. Not to mention that this money goes to fund the operations of terrorist organizations.

    So, the Obama administration was prepared to give money to terrorists for a captured U.S. soldier. This puts other soldiers serving in Afghanistan at greater risk for capture, and if the money had reached the terrorists, it would’ve helped them improve their operational capability against U.S. forces.

    Yet another case Americans paying for poor judgement by the Obama administration when it comes to fighting terrorism.

  176. john constantine

    Abc cheers the worlds dreamiest kenyan creating a 5 million strong welfare herd with a stroke of a pen. Incentivises sending your unescorted little kids to the u.s., to become the anchor link of the family migration chain.

    Abc then claims australia is meanly packing people in concentration camps by only taking hundreds of thousands of immigrants a year.choke the tories on fundemental transformation.

  177. Tintarella di Luna

    There should be a movie made about his Brian Keating who was the brave parent who was in the forefront of this died a few years ago. But of course DOGS held/hold sway, don’t they? The anachronism still exists I think.

    It was only after the action of the Bishop of Goulburn and the Catholic parents who’d had enough that the Catholics cut a deal with the Commonwealth government and we got our science block in our historic little catholic school in country NSW – In the sectarian madness of the day the other churches refused for their parish schools to join the campaign and didn’t start getting their funds until much later.

  178. johanna

    While US universities are not yet executing dissidents, this magnificent article demonstrates just how far down that road they are:

    After the meeting, Rust approached the student who had berated him for not seeking forgiveness and tried to engage him in conversation. Ever naive, Rust again reached out to touch his interlocutor. The student, a large and robust young man, erupted in anger and eventually filed a criminal charge of battery against the 79-year-old professor. Rust’s employers presented him with a choice: if he agreed to stay off the education-school premises for the remainder of the academic year, they would not pursue disciplinary charges against him. The administration then sent around a letter to students, alerting them that the school would be less dangerous—for a while, at least—with Rust out of the picture.

    and

    The committee concluded by congratulating itself and the school’s leadership for identifying “the racial climate challenges that emerged in the Fall Quarter and mov[ing] quickly and decisively to address them.” The authors lacked the integrity to name these “racial climate challenges” or to specify how the school addressed them, but presumably the administration did so by cordoning off the school from Rust’s dangerous presence. The report goes on to recommend the bureaucracy inflation that is every school’s default response to racial protest: in this case, a new associate dean for equity and diversity, a permanent committee on equity and diversity, diversity training for the faculty, and a beefed-up grievance process for lodging complaints of racial discrimination, among other measures lifted directly from the protesters’ petition.

    It’s a long article, but well worth reading if you want to understand how the march through the institutions has corrupted academia. At UCLA, simply accusing a 79 year old, distinguished professor, of racism was enough to make him persona non grata on the campus without judge or jury.

  179. Bruce of Newcastle

    Bruce, the snow is just denier misinformation

    Inco – Just went to check out BCF for the first time in years. Here’s the top post today:

    Campaign to boycott Halal food gains momentum in Australia

    Cat prints all over it. Heh. And a +1 from me too.

    BTW I’ve bookmarked BlazingCatFur again because (a) they do good stuff and (b) Canadian ladies are hot, especially Albertans. Its the accent, it sends hot flushes right up your spine. That is my experience and I defend my opinion to the death.

  180. thefrollickingmole

    Bruce of Newcastle
    Lucky the press sprung into action…

    Holodomor denial is the assertions that the 1932–1933 genocide in Soviet Ukraine either did not occur or did occur but was not a premeditated act.[99][100] Denying the existence of the famine was the Soviet state’s position and reflected in both Soviet propaganda and the work of some Western journalists and intellectuals including Walter Duranty and Louis Fischer.[99][101][102][103][104] In the Soviet Union, authorities all but banned discussion of the famine, but according to Ukrainian historian Stanislav Kulchytsky, he was ordered by the Soviet government to falsify his findings on the event, and depict the famine as an unavoidable, natural disaster; the goal of which was to absolve the Communist Party of blame and uphold the legacy of Stalin.[105]

    Duranty, where do i know that name from?
    Statement on Walter Duranty’s 1932 Prize

    After more than six months of study and deliberation, the Pulitzer Prize Board has decided it will not revoke the foreign reporting prize awarded in 1932 to Walter Duranty of The New York Times.

    In recent months, much attention has been paid to Mr. Duranty’s dispatches regarding the famine in the Soviet Union in 1932-1933, which have been criticized as gravely defective. However, a Pulitzer Prize for reporting is awarded not for the author’s body of work or for the author’s character but for the specific pieces entered in the competition. Therefore, the board focused its attention on the 13 articles that actually won the prize, articles written and published during 1931.

  181. Roger

    Hillary: The Military-Industrial Candidate.

    Vlahos nails it: whoever the GOP’s candidate is, he won’t be able to attack Clinton on national security.

  182. stackja

    johanna
    #1519240, posted on November 21, 2014 at 1:19 pm

    Orwellian 1984.

  183. Bruce of Newcastle

    At UCLA, simply accusing a 79 year old, distinguished professor, of racism was enough to make him persona non grata on the campus

    He must have been good:

    The student, a large and robust young man, erupted in anger and eventually filed a criminal charge of battery against the 79-year-old professor.

    To quote Eric Frank Russell: baloney baffles brains. A 79 yr old accused of battery is triple distilled BBB.

    Oh and “racial climate challenges” is really good. I think I’ll use it.

  184. .

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #1519218, posted on November 21, 2014 at 12:53 pm
    Dot – A lot of people would be attracted to libertarianism if the LDP was accommodating to their reasonable concerns. Acting like a pack of arrogant SOB’s is not the libertarian way (as I an outsider appreciate it to be).

    Oh I’m oppressing you poor thing you – we have roughly the same point of view except you’d call all marriages civil unions, I’d call them marriages.

    Hi Denniss!

  185. calli

    From Johanna’s link:

    The students had been victimized, they claimed, by racial “microaggression”—the hottest concept on campuses today, used to call out racism otherwise invisible to the naked eye.

    A toxic combination of stupidity and self-aggrandisement. The whole piece is a litany of twerpdom. Is there something about universities these days that changes reasonably intelligent teenagers into imbeciles within a couple of years?

  186. .

    Peter
    #1519226, posted on November 21, 2014 at 1:00 pm
    Dot – A lot of people would be attracted to libertarianism if the LDP was accommodating to their reasonable concerns. Acting like a pack of arrogant SOB’s is not the libertarian way (as I an outsider appreciate it to be).

    That is very much my argument, too.

    Libertarianism is not going to have the major effect on the Australian political landscape that we desire, if the most prominent “Libertarian” party insists on frightening the horses.

    Peter – your argument also consists of a thoroughly dangerous and utterly stupid idea that a libertarian political party ought to set out to be as popular as any other party from the outset rather than offer different ideas that might take some time to be popular.

    The lesson about the LNP giving up their principles to not get the support of people who would never support them anyway doesn’t get through your thick head.

  187. stackja

    Roger
    #1519246, posted on November 21, 2014 at 1:23 pm
    Hillary: The Military-Industrial Candidate.

    Vlahos nails it: whoever the GOP’s candidate is, he won’t be able to attack Clinton on national security.

    Hillary’s prevailing record in Washington is as ideological as it is political. In the purest sense she endeavors at what writer Peter Beinart refers to as muscular liberalism, in the vein of Presidents Truman and Kennedy. Her intellectual coterie includes elite purveyors of “humanitarian interventionism” like former Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and Anne Marie Slaughter.

    Truman allowed the Korean War to start.
    Kennedy allowed North Vietnam, Cuba and East Europe to misbehave. Albright allowed Rwanda genocide.

  188. Bruce of Newcastle

    Vlahos nails it: whoever the GOP’s candidate is, he won’t be able to attack Clinton on national security.

    Until Scott Walker asks Hillary in the debate “why did you tell the AC-130U to stand down?”.

    Remember it was two weeks before the presidential election…

  189. .

    Truman allowed the Korean War to start.

    How could have he stopped the North Koreans (without using force)?

    The idea you can’t attack Clinton is a bit silly, even if she is a hawk. Benghazi?

    She is tainted.

  190. Roger

    You forget she’s also a consummate liar, Bruce.

  191. C.L.

    As I have said before there is an elegant and entirely libertarian answer: remove marriage from the secular statutes and make all conjugal arrangements civil unions or defacto.

    Answer to what?

  192. incoherent rambler

    Anyone notice the new spot gentle recruiting technique?
    Winning people over to the LDP with force of argument rather than abuse, when one dares to disagree.

  193. Bruce of Newcastle

    except you’d call all marriages civil unions, I’d call them marriages

    Dot – Thousands of years of history (even aside from the Diety aspect) are behind the latter, which you are misrepresenting.

    All you have to do is use a slightly different term and the problem goes away. Like magic! It’s so easy. One small LDP policy adjustment and you won’t have to read thousands of words from Cats like me any more. Peace! Relief!! Your psyche will thank you for it.

    What I perceive Dot is you don’t comprehend the other. When you learn that skill your political ability will markedly be improved. You don’t need to compromise your beliefs, just to rearrange them in a way to avoid the unnecessary roadblocks.

  194. C.L.

    The Knapps were told by city officials if they didn’t perform same-sex weddings they would face fines and even jail time.

    This has always been the goal of the homosexual ‘marriage’ lobby.

  195. Peter

    Peter – your argument also consists of a thoroughly dangerous and utterly stupid idea that a libertarian political party ought to……..

    Nope. Just that Libertarianism will not become popular if its signature policies put people off even examining its more sensible principles. Nor will it become popular if, instead of engaging with reasonable criticism, you respond with abuse. If you cant be bothered trying to convince me – and I’m already pro-freedom – how are you going to convince the majority?

    The lesson about the LNP giving up their principles to not get the support of people who would never support them anyway doesn’t get through your thick head.

    Says the man supporting gay marriage, which is giving up Libertarian principles in a fit of populism.

    WE already have a left wing of politics whose default reaction to disagreement is abuse. Mostly because they cannot argue with logic and facts. You appear to admire their tactics.

  196. .

    Err yes IR, I take offence to the idea that different syntax is “oppressive” and “authoritarian”.

    It is hysterical nonsense.

    Here we see IR’s blueprint for trolling:

    Criticise the LDP on the most trivial of circumstances, then declare the LDP are “repressing you” whenever someone disagrees with you about it.

    Thankfully everyone else on this forum is educated nearly as or better than you are and can see through this trite nonsense.

  197. stackja

    November 22, 1963, Dallas, Texas, United States – John F. Kennedy, Assassinated

  198. .

    All you have to do is use a slightly different term and the problem goes away.

    Oh no, I’m repressing you. Again.

    One small LDP policy adjustment and you won’t have to read thousands of words from Cats like me any more. Peace! Relief!! Your psyche will thank you for it.

    Consider it might put MORE people off if it is named otherwise. You might be wrong as well, pal.

  199. notafan

    I’ve asked before about the link between libertarianism and supporting the state changing the definition of marriage.
    I still don’t believe that they go hand in hand.
    By the way if the thought is that the gay lobby would abandon their demands to have their relationships recognised as marriages if the state abandoned marriage and only recognized civil unions I would say that is not what would happen.
    That is not what they want.

  200. Peter

    What I perceive Dot is you don’t comprehend the other. When you learn that skill your political ability will markedly be improved. You don’t need to compromise your beliefs, just to rearrange them in a way to avoid the unnecessary roadblocks.

    Shouting abuse at the heretics is so much easier…….

  201. Answer to what?

    Exactly, there simple is no pressing question on a matter of justice that requires an elegant or stupid answer.

  202. Bruce of Newcastle

    Answer to what?

    Adamantine opposition from Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus (probably) and etc.

    One word changed. All it takes.

  203. .

    Nope. Just that Libertarianism will not become popular if its signature policies put people off even examining its more sensible principles

    The signature policy is a 20% flat tax. Read the policies instead of pontificating bullshit.

    Says the man supporting gay marriage, which is giving up Libertarian principles in a fit of populism.

    No. The policy quite clearly refers to a conscience provision.

  204. Bruce of Newcastle

    Oh no, I’m repressing you. Again.

    No Dot you may think you are repressing me, but you are not. I am taunting you.

    You have nothing I want. The fact that you do not is not my problem.

  205. stackja

    Hillary Rodham Clinton
    From Wikipedia
    Whitewater and other investigations
    “Travelgate”
    deputy White House counsel Vince Foster’s July 1993 suicide

  206. .

    Exactly Bruce.

    You would never, ever vote for the LDP, like you said a few days or weeks back, you’re not a libertarian anyway.

  207. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    The report goes on to recommend the bureaucracy inflation that is every school’s default response to racial protest: in this case, a new associate dean for equity and diversity, a permanent committee on equity and diversity, diversity training for the faculty, and a beefed-up grievance process for lodging complaints of racial discrimination, among other measures lifted directly from the protesters’ petition.

    Little mouths open, choo choo choo, here comes the gravy train.

    A disgraceful ‘solution’ to a non-problem.

  208. Grigory M

    The Pieman … a single word

    Heh.

  209. Roger

    Whitewater and other investigations

    Yes, but Bill still trots around the globe being paid tens of thousands of dollars for speeches and Hillary is the prime Democratic candidate for the next presidential election. This stuff doesn’t stick to them; they dissemble and the press buys it..

  210. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    All you have to do is use a slightly different term and the problem goes away

    +1

    A term that does not imply that the production and raising of children is a part of the deal. Civil Union sounds fine to me. Current adoption laws and regulations could still apply.

  211. goatjam

    The LDP policies on gay marriage are in conflict with each other:

    Believes marriage is a private matter (assuming informed consent) and should be free from government rules and regulation, with the government’s role limited to providing a register.

    Sounds good. I agree entirely.

    Would amend relevant legislation so that marriage between two individuals had the same consequences irrespective of whether they were of the same or different gender.

    So the LDP thinks that the government should step out of the marriage racket altogether yet they also want to enshrine in law a new definition of marriage.

    How does that work?

  212. C.L.

    Tim “I’m agnostic about anti-Jew Cartoons” Southpossamass in the SMH tries to make Islam a race. He also says Halal certification if great and cannot be criticised.

    Beware of cover for making bigotry respectable.

    Islam isn’t a race. It’s a religion. Therefore, abusing Muslims isn’t racist. The real racism is that we’re not allowed to criticise Islam.

    This is the logic of many who are expressing hostility towards Muslims and Islam. Many have written to me directly, often in language unfit for public repetition. They say that they are concerned with the beliefs and practices of Muslims. They say they are entitled to be scornful of Islam, which they fear is taking over Australia.

    The distinction between race and religion is a complex one. But it shouldn’t be used to provide cover for making bigotry respectable.

    Let’s be clear about a few things. In a liberal democracy we should be free to have robust debates about culture, religion and belief. Yet debate doesn’t mean abuse. Criticism doesn’t mean vilification. We may disagree, but we should do so with civility. There is little to commend about militant hostility towards faith, of all kinds.

    Hey, Tim. Kiss my Irish-Australian bottom.

    We’ll say whatever we like about Islam and you can’t do anything to stop us.

    My forefathers fought for that right to exist in Australia.

    Yours didn’t.

  213. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Is there something about universities these days that changes reasonably intelligent teenagers into imbeciles within a couple of years?

    Yes. The academic staffing, the Chancelleries, and the reading lists. Plus of course the anti-discrimination gravy train apparatus. The smarter kids put their heads down, comply, and get out.

  214. Roger

    You would never, ever vote for the LDP, like you said a few days or weeks back, you’re not a libertarian anyway.

    Well, dot, I would consider voting LDP in the senate if they dropped SSM. I’ve been impressed with DL and, frankly, the more pressure put on an LNP or ALP government by economically rational forces the better.

    I never regarded myself as libertarian either, until I read Chris Berg’s definition in the Liberty Quotes and realised it could include me, although I’ll continue to regard myself as a small government social conservative.

  215. Peter

    The signature policy is a 20% flat tax.

    Read the policies instead of pontificating bullshit.

    Nope….. That is not what is appearing in the media.
    Pretending that the majority of people will look past what puts them off to what you like to call your core policies is engaging in magic thinking.

    No. The policy quite clearly refers to a conscience provision.

    Doesn’t do away with the fact that it is based on i9ncreased regulation, nor assuage the fears that political amendments by the majority are unlikely to make the exemptions as broad as you claim to want, or that the courts will uphold them. Even if they did, the result would be a triumph for tokenism and access to freebies, not the reduction of regulation.

    The LDP could clearly and obviously revert to its Libertarian by seeking to reduce the regulation of marriage.

    You don’t cut Abbott that much slack. Nor I, you.

    It’s even worse than Abbott imagining that people will start looking at what his government has actually achieved when the media is full of screams about cuts to the ABC and “broken promises”.

  216. Tim “I’m agnostic about anti-Jew Cartoons” Southpossamass

    Southpossumarse………. love it!

  217. Peter

    You would never, ever vote for the LDP, like you said a few days or weeks back, you’re not a libertarian anyway.

    Exactly the reasoning used by ISIS when they behead fellow Islamics.

    “If you don’t belong to my party, you are an infidel….”

  218. Exactly the reasoning used by ISIS when they behead fellow Islamics.
    “If you don’t belong to my party, you are an infidel….”

    Works for me, when may I start lining up swampies & greenfilth for their “headjobs”?

  219. Ant

    For those depressed by the Obama presidency, something inspirational.

  220. Peter

    Works for me, when may I start lining up swampies & greenfilth for their “headjobs”?

    Tempting, tempting…. 😀

    But no more a Libertarian principle that Dot’s demand that all Libertarians vote for His Party.

  221. Roger

    For those depressed by the Obama presidency, something inspirational.

    He’s operating in a target rich environment, Ant 🙂

    As the comment says, I’d like to see him on a ticket with Rand Paul.

  222. Bruce of Newcastle

    NOT THE FISHING MINISTER FROM BELIZE! Ahahahahahahaha.

    Blair is hot today. {doffs hat}

  223. Makka

    We are talking about the grubbermint caving in and if nothing else, grubbermints are very good at caving in to ‘well organised but vocal extremist minoritys”

    Then if the LNP do , they will engender a lot of ill will on this issue. They will certainly lose nett votes. Do you think for a minute there are substantial votes for Conservatives from the pro- SSM lobby by abandoning traditional marriage? Get a grip. The Left fk us over in all manner of ways so no difference there.

    “You honestly think that every future government of whatever party will remain stalwart defenders of the traditional definition of marriage, do you?”

    This is just your opinion. Traditional marriage has been in place , recognised by Govts for centuries. I’m in favour of a referendum, all sides live with the result. That is equitable. I don’t believe changing the centuries old tradition of marriage is something Govt’s can force on us without a consenting majority. Simple.

  224. Ant

    I’d settle for either, Roger, against the predictable numbskull RINO likely to be rammed through by the Republican DC Elite.

  225. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Funny the first time, a cute nod of acknowledgement the second or third time, lazy, predictable and boring after a dozen or so repeats.

    I am reading upthread, so – nicknames. I am all for them.

    Steve, don’t tell me you are even against Da Hairy Ape? The kids, btw, call him Hairy behind his back.
    Funnily enough he’s not all that hairy; some guys are more so. I think it is the turned-out knuckle-dragging rolling lurch he puts on that amuses us all. He doesn’t always do that, but he does it well.

  226. cynical1

    MartinG
    #1519028, posted on November 21, 2014 at 9:34 am

    You are displaying your total ignorance of the subject at hand. Stop making fool of yourself.

    Well then Martin G fucking Patton, you better tell us your strategy.

    Kobane is becoming a pile of rubble, just slowly.

    So your idea is to suck in ISIS and the Kurds hold Kobane.

    Yeah, can you spell “quagmire”.

    I suppose in 10 years, downtown Kobane will still be a shithole with suicide bombers
    making a shopping trip a matter of life and death.

    Baghdad is hardly Sanctuary Cove after eleven years.

    Overwhelming firepower if used properly, ends conflicts earlier.

    And ISIS sure ain’t the German Army….

  227. JC

    When kinda looks a like a possum, I reckon… The little porker.

  228. notafan

    That is equitable. I don’t believe changing the centuries old tradition of marriage is something Govt’s can force on us without a consenting majority. Simple.

    The government can’t change the definition even if a referendum gave them a majority. Government should not be in the business of changing the meaning of words and institutions such as marriage.
    Gays want any negative words and thoughts about their behaviour criminalised. Feminists would crimalize being a white male.
    In a world where gender is no longer biological but of the moment we will have the thought police. Actually, we already do, it’s called social media and the MSM.

  229. johanna

    calli
    #1519255, posted on November 21, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    From Johanna’s link:

    The students had been victimized, they claimed, by racial “microaggression”—the hottest concept on campuses today, used to call out racism otherwise invisible to the naked eye.

    A toxic combination of stupidity and self-aggrandisement. The whole piece is a litany of twerpdom. Is there something about universities these days that changes reasonably intelligent teenagers into imbeciles within a couple of years?

    What is depressing about this story is that the university administration allowed, nay, welcomed, bullying by a tiny minority. Then, Rust’s students and colleagues, who must have known that it was nonsense, stood by silently and let it happen.

    That is what we see happening, over and over again, in every sphere of political and personal life.

    The cringing responses of politicians to campaigns on twitter and facebook, or 150 demonstrators in a city of millions, or orchestrated hysteria courtesy of Getup and the Greens, are a sickness that we need to eradicate.

    Professor Rust was lucky to be at the end of his career. Apart from (rightly) feeling ill-used, the material consequences won’t be great. If he had been 35, with a family to support, it would have been very different. And that is what has happened to academics and researchers who have not toed the line on climate alarmism as well.

    What is it that makes otherwise good people stand by and watch this stuff without saying or doing anything? I know that I am a cranky old cow, but I was a cranky young cow as well. No way would I have stood by (often to my cost). But, relying on personality quirks isn’t going to solve the problem.

    Suggestions are most welcome.

  230. Gab

    Possums? We should be allowed to cull them. They’re a pest and cause major damage to substations and powerlines and you, the householder/tenant have to pay for it through increased electricity prices! You can thank the greenfilth for that, too!

  231. Rudiau

    Kneel Before Zod
    Tis done.

    On Thursday night, President Obama delivered his address to the nation on his executive amnesty. It was historic, both in its scope and in its dishonesty: the speech represented a closely-woven and incredible tapestry of falsehood, exposited with a straight face by the greatest liar in modern American history. To those versed in immigration and constitutional law, watching Obama lay out his program felt like watching a madman describe, with preternaturally perfect sincerity, how the moon was constructed of cheese: you know the argument is untrue, but it’s incredible to watch its dogged exposition.

  232. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Isn’t Craig Thompson’s appeal coming up shortly?

  233. john constantine

    Voteherds are the future, those that live off them like the old time cattlemen just want bigger and ever bigger herds, it is all a numbers game.

  234. Senile Old Guy

    And in a country far, far away:

    The Australian Olympic Committee will recognise Australia’s indigenous heritage in its constitution, in a move it hopes will help bring about a referendum to recognise Aborigines in the nation’s constitution. The amendment to the AOC constitution will read: “To recognise the heritage, culture and contribution of our nation’s first people, and to give practical support to indigenous reconciliation through sport.” The AOC will also change the Australian Olympic Team values statement, ASPIRE, to read: “RESPECT — I respect sport, the efforts of my competitors, my team mates and officials. I respect Australia and its indigenous heritage. I respect our nation’s past and the spirit of Olympism.”

    Mr Coates said the decision had received a “very enthusiastic” response from Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who supports a referendum to recognise indigenous Australians in the constitution. In a letter to Coates, Mr Abbott said he was pleased to provide his support to the AOC for the move to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders as the First Australians.

    Here’s the link but it may be paywalled.

    And here is ASPIRE:

    (1) Attitude – My positive attitude is essential in overcoming obstacles to help me improve and give of my best. My positive attitude is a key ingredient to success and leadership.
    (2) Sportsmanship – I recognise that sport is greater than the individual; that cheating reduces the stature of sport and all who love it; that class, race and creed are never factors in the attitude of true sports people and those who respect the virtues and values of sport.
    (3) Pride – Pride drives me when the temptation is to settle for something less. I am proud to have been chosen to represent our country.
    (4) Individual responsibility – I alone am responsible for my performance but I will be generous in acknowledging the support of others.
    (5) Respect – I respect sport, the efforts of my competitors, my team mates and officials. I respect Australia and its indigenous heritage. I respect our nation’s past and the spirit of Olympism.
    (6) Express – I have an opinion and will express my view with thought and consideration to others. In showing my emotions I do so with individuality and, where possible, good humour and humility.

    I was about to have lunch but will have to wait until the nausea subsides.

  235. goatjam

    Then if the LNP do , they will engender a lot of ill will on this issue.

    Because they are currently doing such a stellar job of representing the ideals and aspirations of their conservative base right now, yes? Actually no. I have not noticed that seem concerned one jot that their lurch to the left is costing them support so why would this be any different?

    “You honestly think that every future government of whatever party will remain stalwart defenders of the traditional definition of marriage, do you?”

    Traditional marriage has been in place , recognised by Govts for centuries.

    The trouble with that thesis is that there has not been centuries of coordinated, worldwide agitation by the homosexual lobby to have the definition changed until recent times. Therefore we have no historical data that suggests that modern leftist democratically elected governments will have the understanding or intestinal fortutude to withstand the relentless amount of gay propaganda that is being generate daily in newspapers and TV networks around the globe.

    If you think that the gay lobby will just let it slide and get tired of trying it on after failing a few dozen times then you are monumentally naive. They have a far greater stomach for playing this game than the likes of Abbott666 or Tits Shorten will ever have.

  236. calli

    The Pieman … a single word

    Heh.

    Stop trolling my comments Grigory. It’s just silly.

  237. johanna

    The AOC would murder their grandmothers for money.

    Tony Abbott’s naivete about how he is being manipulated because of his genuine concern for Aborigines is very worrying indeed. They are painting him into a corner, and he (and his gormless staff) can’t even see the bloke with the brush and pot of paint.

  238. JC

    Possums? We should be allowed to cull them. They’re a pest and cause major damage to substations and powerlines and you, the householder/tenant have to pay for it through increased electricity prices! You can thank the greenfilth for that, too!

    Rat poison. Works a treat.

  239. calli

    Possums? We should be allowed to cull them.

    Possum fur is beautifully soft. I have some delightful possum “mink” gloves, a scarf and several skeins of lovely yarn that I’ll get around to using some day. All from the shaky isles.

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