Others are taking the leadership role that Obama will not

The US is leaderless and rudderless, which means that the entire West is leaderless and rudderless. Nothing has made it more evident than the absence of Obama from any attempt to provide direction in the face of the rising tide of Islamist radicalism. The first of the Republicans to step into this leadership vacuum is Bobby Jindal, the Governor of Louisiana. This is from the speech he will be giving in London tomorrow, titled: Jindal to Bash Hillary’s ‘Mindless Naiveté’ in London Speech: And Declare ‘Islam Has a Problem.’

“Let me be blunt about this. I want America’s allies to trust us and respect us, and I want our enemies to fear us. Every day our enemies spend their time trying to avoid our justice is a day they are not plotting against us. And I fear that in recent years this has not been the case.

“The events of the past several years clearly suggest that America’s allies are often less than certain that they can count on us, and our enemies too often do not fear us. Of course, as Americans we want all people to live in harmony, and we do not desire to have any enemies. But the simple truth is that we do, but that is not of our doing.

“There are people in the world who mean us harm, who desire our downfall, and who simply detest us because we stand for freedom. I have no interest in coddling them, or pretending that bad is good. Sugar coating the reality of the situation serves no purpose, we must not be afraid to speak the truth.

“A wise man once said, ‘the truth will set you free.’ . . .

“Now, let’s talk very directly about the elephant in the room…that is, allow me to discuss the recent horrific events in France. I will warn you in advance that I’m going to say some things that are not politically correct, so brace yourselves.

“To be clear, I have no interest in defaming any religion, nor do I have any interest in assigning the maniacal acts of radical Islamists to millions of Muslims worldwide. I’m interested only in dealing with reality and facts. And the fact is that radical Islamists do not believe in freedom or common decency nor are they willing to accommodate it in any way and anywhere.

“We need to stop pretending otherwise. We are fools to pretend otherwise. How many Muslims in this world agree with these radicals? I have no idea, I hope it is a small minority. But it is clear that far too many do, and it is clear that they must be stopped.

“For example, note what radical Islamists do when given the chance in territories they control either in the Middle East or even in Europe. In Iraq, ISIS commits genocide, enslaves women and beheads opponents. And in the West, non-assimilationist Muslims establish enclaves and carry out as much of Sharia law as they can without regard for the laws of the democratic countries which provided them a new home.

“It is startling to think that any country would allow, even unofficially, for a so called ‘no-go zone.’ The idea that a free country would allow for specific areas of its country to operate in an autonomous way that is not free and is in direct opposition to its laws is hard to fathom.

“Another example is the rise of anti-Semitism in many places, even in continental Europe. Over the last couple of years we have been alarmed to see blatant and astoundingly bold acts of persecution and bigotry against Jewish persons and property, to such a degree that Jewish emigration from Europe is increasing.

“How does such evil rise again in democratic countries? I believe it is because radical Islamists have been given too wide a berth to establish their own nation within a nation. I am encouraged to see France’s Prime Minister speak out against this travesty.

“In America we are quite happy to welcome freedom loving people, regardless of religion, who want to abide by our laws allowing for freedom of expression and a host of other democratic freedoms. But we will never allow for any sect of people to set up their own areas where they establish their own set of laws.

“We have to stop pretending that right and wrong do not exist. For example – Sharia law is not just different than our law, it’s not just a cultural difference, it is oppression and it is wrong. It subjugates women and treats them as property, and it is antithetical to valuing all of human life equally. It is the very definition of oppression. We must stop pretending otherwise.

“In my country, Christianity is the largest religion. And we require exactly no one to conform to it. And we do not discriminate against anyone who does not conform to it. It’s called freedom. A so-called religion that allows for and endorses killing those who oppose it is not a religion at all, it is a terrorist movement.

“I do continue to believe and hope that most Muslims oppose these bloodthirsty acts of terror. But that is not the point. Whether they do or not, the point is that radical Islamists do advocate the slaughter of those who reject their views. Free peoples everywhere must not pretend otherwise and must not coddle those who hold these views. And they must have courage.

“I favor robust debate on everything – on religion, on policy, on politics, on everything. It is called freedom. But when debate stops, and when a movement decides that they no longer want to debate their ideas, but rather they want to simply subdue, silence, and kill those who disagree…that is called terrorism, barbarism, and inhuman behavior, and it cannot and must not be tolerated.

“Let’s be honest here, Islam has a problem. If Islam does not support what is happening in the name of Islam, then they need to stand up and stop it. Many Islamic leaders argue that these are the acts of a radical few. Ok, it is their problem, and they need to deal with it.

“Muslim leaders must make clear that anyone who commits acts of terror in the name of Islam is in fact not practicing Islam at all.

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51 Responses to Others are taking the leadership role that Obama will not

  1. Old School Conservative

    The US is leaderless and rudderless, which means that the entire West is leaderless and rudderless.
    And Australia is leaderless and rudderless. Yes, the illegal immigrants have been stopped from being drowned or arriving in Australia, and the mining tax is gone. But the LNP have no clearly articulated philosophy which allows them to “do a Jindall”.

  2. Lem

    Two more years of Obama.

    By then the calls to prayer will be lasting from American universities everywhere.

  3. Alfonso

    Don’t take any of these main chancers seriously until they run as policy cessation of the inbound flow of all sparkling, fresh, primitive, 3rd world muslim immigrants. Which they never will.
    From Jindal to Hillary it’s all a bright shining lie, an establishment game, and why they hate binding referenda above all things. Yawn.

  4. Roger

    Muslim leaders must make clear that anyone who commits acts of terror in the name of Islam is in fact not practicing Islam at all.

    Not all Muslims are jihadists, but all jihadists are Muslims.

    Don’t hold your breathe waiting for Muslim leaders to state that jihadists are not practicing Islam – the latter can quote chapter and verse to authorise their jihad and the former know it.

    Looks like Bobby Jindal is another politician who doesn’t get it.

  5. george

    Let’s be honest here, Islam has a problem. If Islam does not support what is happening in the name of Islam, then they need to stand up and stop it. Many Islamic leaders argue that these are the acts of a radical few. Ok, it is their problem, and they need to deal with it.

    Exactly what I’ve been shouting for years. It. is. their. problem. We have enough of our own.
    Interestingly there are those of that religion of peace that do not hesitate to warn of non existent backlashes against the poor muslim community whenever their cult goes postal… THAT’S obviously a problem that we need to address, yeah right. These people seem to be unaware of motes and beams.
    The lament that it is just a tiny minority(tm) that causes all the problem doesn’t and hasn’t washed for years because the simple truth of the matter is that if it were such a tiny minority then the huge majority should have had zero problem bringing them to heel.
    I mean seriously consider, this tiny minority(tm) has seriously damaged the brand so any and all action taken against those misrepresenting the religion of peace would be justifiable. Let’s face it even the Islamic scriptures suggest anything goes. What could possibly be holding them back?

  6. blogstrop

    Do we have nobody here who can speak the truth like this?

    In my country, Christianity is the largest religion. And we require exactly no one to conform to it. And we do not discriminate against anyone who does not conform to it. It’s called freedom. A so-called religion that allows for and endorses killing those who oppose it is not a religion at all, it is a terrorist movement.

    Let’s be honest here, Islam has a problem. If Islam does not support what is happening in the name of Islam, then they need to stand up and stop it. Many Islamic leaders argue that these are the acts of a radical few. Ok, it is their problem, and they need to deal with it.

    Muslim leaders must make clear that anyone who commits acts of terror in the name of Islam is in fact not practicing Islam at all.

    That last bit could be a bit stronger: “Muslim leaders must make clear that anyone who commits acts of terror in the name of Islam is in fact not practicing Islam at all.” I think Al-Sisi has shown how to deal with it.

  7. Hugh

    Hey, it’s not just the “terror” of extremists that Islam has difficulties with.

    Even many “peaceful” Muslims who might oppose “terror” support a whole panoply of outrageous practices that aren’t remotely peaceful, at least according to my standards. According to poll research, most practicing Muslims worldwide favour: stoning adulterers, lopping off the hands of thieves, applying Sharia law to non-believers, killing apostates, honour killings, killing homosexuals and so on.

    See “TheReligionofPeace.com” for a few eye-openers.

    Islam isn’t a religion of peace. It’s a religion of pieces.

  8. jupes

    For example – Sharia law is not just different than our law, it’s not just a cultural difference, it is oppression and it is wrong.

    Sharia law is demanded by Allah and Mohammed. It is fundamental to the Muslim ‘religion’.

    I cannot see how Muslims can reconcile Allah’s demands with living in the West.

  9. Empire

    This bloke is having a go and starting a conversation that has to be had. Yet the whiners and moaners shitcan him. You’re part of the problem too whingers.

  10. Roger

    I think Al-Sisi has shown how to deal with it.

    Here’s some of what el-Sisi said – the gist of his argument – in his speech at Al-Azhar University in Cairo:

    “It’s inconceivable that the thinking that we hold most sacred should cause the entire umma to be a source of anxiety, danger, killing and destruction for the rest of the world…That thinking — I am not saying ‘religion’ but ‘thinking’ — that corpus of texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the years, to the point that departing from them has become almost impossible, is antagonizing the entire world!”

    The “corpus of texts and ideas that [Muslims] have sacralized over years” to which he refers is the Quran and authoritative commentaries upon it and digests of Islamic law derived from it which repeated surveys show that Muslims in the ME and SE Asia regard as authoritative. As much as we might welcome his proposals, do you really expect the world’s Muslims to hail el-Sisi – until recently a professional soldier trained in the US and presently a politician whose rule is regarded as illegitimate by Egypt’s Salafist and moderate Muslim parties – as the authoritative re-interpreter of their sacred texts and forsake their pursuit of sharia and jihad?

    No…it would take someone with much more religious authority. But what would that authority be based on when the sacred text of the Quran is the source of and justification for extremism?

  11. C.L.

    No, this isn’t it, either.

    Jindal clings to ‘Islamist’ and ‘radical Islam’ in his supposedly radical analysis.

    We already know this and it’s been said for at least 14 years.

    “Let’s be honest here, Islam has a problem. If Islam does not support what is happening in the name of Islam, then they need to stand up and stop it. Many Islamic leaders argue that these are the acts of a radical few. Ok, it is their problem, and they need to deal with it Thing is, they’re lying.

    That’s the beginning of truth setting us free.

  12. Roger

    This bloke is having a go and starting a conversation that has to be had. Yet the whiners and moaners shitcan him. You’re part of the problem too whingers.

    It’s called a discussion, Empire.

    It’s what adults do after the children have gone to bed.

    You yourself note that Jindal is starting a conversation…we are simply continuing it in this forum. Instead of knocking those seeking to respond to his argument with reasonable, critical responses, why don’t you instead attempt to rebut his critics?

  13. C.L.

    Book Review: “Submission” – a novel on Islam and the decomposition of Western Europe; the latest novel by Michel Houellebecq.

    For François Maillot, director of the La Procure [religious] bookstore in Paris, such a work prompts Christians to wake up.

    This book has not yet been released, and everyone already knows the plot. It is about France in 2022, which witnesses the confrontation, in the second round of the presidential elections, of the candidate of the National Front and the chairman of the Muslim party, Mohamed Ben Abbes.

    Houellebecq achieves this tour de force of putting in place a near future which nobody had thought about and that, if we are honest while reading it, has all the elements of believability… It is undoubtedly this which grants to this novel its exceptional strength. No takeover by Fascists, no civil war (or just briefly, quickly covered up by the media), no radical Islam chopping heads, stoning men, raping women. As in Huxley’s Brave New World, it is imposed softly in a society that is numb and with no way out. If there is any violence in this novel, it is in this perspective of crushing the reader with a submission to a soft and almost consensual New Order, without any resistance being offered to it. Faced with the collapse of politics, the Islamic Republic becomes a choice like any other. Faced with the ruin of the country, petrodollars buy it all. Faced with intellectual emptiness, any kind of speech can impose itself. Faced with generalized atheism, Islam can win the day.

  14. C.L.

    Jindal might like to read Roberto de Mattei’s latest – just posted.

    It should be compulsory reading in our schools.

    We have been deluded into thinking that the war in course is not that declared by Islam on the West, but a war that is being fought inside the Muslim world itself and the only way of saving ourselves is to help moderate Islam to defeat fundamentalist Islam, as was written in the “Corriere della Sera” on January 11th by Sergio Romano, an observer, who is even considered intelligent as well. The most repeated slogan in France is to avoid the “amalgam” , that is, the identification of moderate Islam with radical Islam. However the common aim of all of Islam is the conquest of the West and of the world. Those who don’t share this objective are not moderates, but simply not good Muslims.

    The differences, if any, do not concern the ends, but the means: the Muslims of Al Qaeda and of Isis have embraced the Leninist way of violent action, while the Muslim Brothers use the Gramscian weapon of intellectual hegemony. The mosques are the propelling center of that cultural war which Bat Ye’or defines as ‘soft-jihad’, while with the term ‘hard-jihad’ he defines the military war to terrorize and annihilate the enemy. The choice of the means can be discussed and certainly it is inside Islam, but there is concordance on the final objective: the extension into the world of the sharia’a – the law of the Koran.

    RTWT.

  15. Hugh

    C.L., spot on.

    I know it’s a cliche, but T.S. Eliot’s nightmare is upon us:

    “This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper.”

  16. Roger

    The differences, if any, do not concern the ends, but the means: the Muslims of Al Qaeda and of Isis have embraced the Leninist way of violent action, while the Muslim Brothers use the Gramscian weapon of intellectual hegemony.

    Precisely.

    Understanding that this is the ‘centre of gravity’ of this war, to use von Clausewitz’s term – the critical factor which, until we grasp it in all its significance, we cannot fight effectively, let alone hope to win.

  17. Empire

    It’s what adults do after the children have gone to bed.

    Spare me the sanctimony Roger. Adults act. Children talk.

    How many Muslims have you engaged this week? How many potential apostates have you encouraged this week? You know, in person, without the veil of anonymity?

  18. Roger

    Book Review: “Submission” – a novel on Islam and the decomposition of Western Europe; the latest novel by Michel Houellebecq.

    Interestingly, the cover of Charlie Hebdo on the stands last week when the Muslim attackers struck was ridiculing Houellebecq’s dark vision.

  19. Rod W

    “Muslim leaders must make clear that anyone who commits acts of terror in the name of Islam is in fact not practicing Islam at all.”
    One of the problems Islam has is that there is no supreme authority, i.e. no Pope-style figure. So who’s to say what the jihadists are doing is not the ‘true Islam’, and what ‘moderates’ are doing is not some watered down half-baked Islam? If you question ten Islamic leaders on what their religion is all about you’ll get ten different answers. They face the same dilemma as all faiths – the tension between dogma and changing times and attitudes. If the Koran is the word of Allah as transcribed by his prophet and is immutable, then any culture based on it is going to be stuck in the 7th century, as we can observe.

  20. Roger

    Spare me the sanctimony Roger. Adults act. Children talk.

    The opposite, in fact – children act according to impulse, adults discuss before acting.

    Now, how about that rebuttal…

  21. Empire

    Try again Roger. Debating club doesn’t change the facts on the ground, unless it’s backed with action. Don’t be shy now, tell us about your practical contribution to the war on terror.

  22. Roger

    No; I asked for a rebuttal of my argument.

    Show me my critique of Jindal’s understanding of Islam is wrong – cite chapter and verse.

    Go!

  23. .

    Re-read Empire’s comment.

    All we’re doing is pissing in each other’s pockets. People are out there sticking their neck out like our ADF members or Ishrad Manji.

  24. Roger

    Yes, I know an air force pilot presently engaged in the anti-ISIL operations…he would find your proposed stricture against discussing Islam totally absurd, dot.

  25. C.L.

    What I believe we’re seeing now is right-of-centre pols looking to take advantage by throwing pseudo red meat to their constituents regarding Islam.

    Goes like this …

    “I’m going to put aside all the conventional rhetoric and weasel words and tell it like it is. Are you ready? Here we go. We are at war with radical Islam! There. It had to be said.”

    No shit. George Bush was saying that 14 years ago.

    No. We are at war with Islam itself and it must be brought to heel. Brought low. Ruthlessly.

  26. .

    You’re still pissing in my pocket, champ.

  27. .

    “I’m going to put aside all the conventional rhetoric and weasel words and tell it like it is. Are you ready? Here we go. We are at war with radical Islam! There. It had to be said.”

    It has become a meaningful statement since the media dismissed terrorists with the “no true Muslim” gag.

    That’s a reflection on the press, not dare I say, politicians.

  28. Roger

    You’re still pissing in my pocket, champ.

    You disappoint me, dot.

    I thought you were a cut above the usual boorish Australian anti-intellectualism.

    Ideas have consequences, as you ought to have learned by now.

    In the present conflict, militias and armies are but the proxies of ideas conceived centuries, no…millenia ago.

  29. No. We are at war with Islam itself and it must be brought to heel. Brought low. Ruthlessly.

    If only one of the pollies had the bottle to say that, i know, i’m dreaming.

  30. outsider

    Self-policing of their more colourful elements has never been the strong suit of Islamic political or societal institutions. The unmentioned animal in his room is institutional Islamisation in the US and elsewhere. So the simple notion of a dichotomy of terrorist Muslims and the friendly ‘normal’ mainstream Muslims is both simplistic and superficial. Always look to see who holds the power.

    Here is a quote from an Australian Imam, from Kirralie Smith:

    “On the Islamic website muslimvillage.com in June 2011 the secretary of the Australian Islamic Mission, Siddiq Buckley is quoted as saying, “There are practical examples of [Sharia] here already. We have Muslim schools, mosques, funeral parlours, shops and businesses. We’ve got abattoirs, Islamic charities, Islamic financial institutions. There are so many things – halal meals served on airlines. This is all part of Sharia.””

    Such speakers are the mainstream and they know full well what they are doing regarding Sharia. Ask for a ham sandwich on a Qantas aircraft.

  31. Roger

    Though I know that evening’s Empire has returned into sand
    Vanished from my hand
    Left me blindly here to stand but still not sleeping
    My weariness amazes me, I’m branded on my feet
    I have no one to meet
    And the ancient empty street’s too dead for dreaming

  32. Makka

    “No. We are at war with Islam itself and it must be brought to heel. Brought low. Ruthlessly.”

    Correct, absolutely. And all this pussy footing around, weasel words and “moderate Islam” vs “radical Islam” will not change the fact that Islam is at war with us.

    There are many ways in which jihad is accomplished. And while doing so taqqiyah is encouraged. One can wage jihad by providing cover to fellow jihadists, by not blowing their cover to the authorities or sending money to jihadists. One may just have to offer a fellow jihadist a bed for the night or pass on a package, leave a door open- anything. Jihad is any personal endeavor that furthers the influence of Islam and other jihadists. Many ignoramuses simply view this as being ‘moderate’.

  33. Roger

    Darn formatting doesn’t work properly.

    Only Empire should be italicised.

    I’ve got no beef with you Emp; just come back with an argument instead of personalising the debate.

    Ad homs are no substitute for debate…and debating ideas does matter – it is central to Western culture.

  34. 3d1k

    “Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, shits on the board and then struts around like it won the game.”

    V. Putin.

    Couldn’t resist 😉

  35. “Muslim leaders must make clear that anyone who commits acts of terror in the name of Islam is in fact not practicing Islam at all.

    Ha! And the leaders of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Nusra Front et al are laughing into their fermented goats milk.
    Words matter, correct definitions matter. These terrorists are practicing Islam in a fundamental way, which means – by definition – they are NOT exteremist at all.
    They’re killing other Muslims because they consider moderate muslims as TAKFIRs. All moderate muslims are takfirs, and muslims are considered moderate if they’re not practicing sharia.

    The whole fight is about sharia and nothing else. Until and unless our so called leaders understand and acknowledge this fact, we’re boxing shadows.

    I don’t expect moderate muslims to take responsibility for the actions of fundamentalists. What I expect is for them to denounce sharia law. I expect the imams and mullahs at our mosques to denounce sharia law not just publicly but in their sermons on fridays in front of their flock.
    Any muslim who does not denounce sharia law is an enemy of our secular state and our way of life and must be dealt with accordingly.

    I would strongly suggest our law makers try to understand this because the biggest threat is not from the murderers a la Lindt Cafe and Charlie Hebdo, but from the quiet “moderate” muslims who would welcome sharia law. They talk the talk in their homes, their tea shops and their mosques, the murderers walk the walk. So long as sharia law is a possibility even at local and regional levels, this possibility will spawn murderers.

  36. Ros

    Speaking of leadership as you would all be noticing CL’s favourite has just told the world that they deserved it. None of them mention the Jews as an exception to this explanation for the murders so I assume that it is a given they are the causes of their own demise. Hollande is most encouraging declaring Muslims are the real victims and just like they punish attacks on Jews they will punish attacks on Muslims. So, you are on your own Muslims. Or is he going to reintroduce the French state into the little caliphates dismembering his country, within which Muslims are threatened and intimidated. It seems they are even successfully separating the public school system, acceptable teachers and no nonMuslim students. Great leadership Hollande, or is actually doing something a step too far President Hollande.

    But the Pope,

    Pope Francis has said there are limits to freedom of expression and that anyone who ridicules someone else’s religion could deserve a punch, after 17 were killed in Paris over Prophet Mohamed cartoons.
    He said that freedom of speech and expression are fundamental human rights however he added that he believes there should be limits to offending and ridiculing the faiths and beliefs of others.
    By way of example, he referred to Alberto Gasparri, who organises his trips and was standing by his side on board the papal plane.
    “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction.
    He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”

    And the Jews Mr Pope?

    There are a number of stories about claiming Netanyahu was in fact asked by the French not to come and when he made them cross by coming they stuck him in the second row, with Abbas in the front. Two versions of what happened, if you hate him he pushed into the front, otherwise the President of Mali pulled him to the front. So, even though I am not s fan of Netanyahu I say well done, that was leadership, and to the French, didn’t take you long to show your true colours. Calls in Egypt to ban French products.

    God the geniuses on ABC are making the point that there is s lot of controversy about 18c and maybe the time has come to EXTEND it to religion. Excuse me blaspheming, but god help us.

    And the Belgians must have been worried the Muslims were going to kill other than Jews.
    We are losing folks, our leadership is failing us and it seems until the bottom is reached we are stuck with them.

  37. john constantine

    Yep, leadership roles, speaking against people that rape and murder their enemies children.

    Abbotts family has only been in the media lately when their hate media has drawn attention to them by targeting them for politically inspired attacks.

    In an enviroment of ‘lone wolf, nothing to do with islam’ attacks, a family man can be crazy brave, but the headhunters delight in targeting children, who wants their 10 year old girl wired up to a ‘suicide bomb’ for disrespecting someones prophet.

    Nobody would have cared if they had taken timmy off his bludgecouch and gone game of thrones on the first bogan, but we can see on youtube what they do to young girls, and their abc delighted in broadcasting a call for an attack on abbotts family recently.

  38. rickw

    Thing is, they’re lying.

    Hardly surprising for a “religion” that has 6 different sanctioned methods of lying.

  39. Old School Conservative

    Pope Francis is providing ambiguous leadership.
    Pope Francis waded into the debate over freedom of expression following the attacks in Paris, saying that killing in the name of religion is an “aberration,” but adding that those who deride other faiths can expect to provoke a strong — even violent — response.
    I don’t remember him supporting violent responses to attacks on the Christian church and its followers.

  40. Tel

    “No. We are at war with Islam itself and it must be brought to heel. Brought low. Ruthlessly.”

    Correct, absolutely. And all this pussy footing around, weasel words and “moderate Islam” vs “radical Islam” will not change the fact that Islam is at war with us.

    It is the moral duty, in the buildup towards war, for every party to do their utmost to try all possible means of peaceful settlement first. Violence is a last resort, when all other approaches have failed.

    The one and only reason that the victors in WWII can claim to have fought a moral war (i.e. a defensive war), is because Neville Chamberlain was 100% correct to offer a treaty and an alternative to violence.

  41. Hey mod, I posted a couple of comments in the wee hours that were waiting for moderation (I assumed due to a change in my email address) but they seem to have been junked.
    Did I say something unpostable?

    [Not that I can see. Moderation takes time because (a) I tend to sleep in the wee hours and (b) I’m travelling at the moment and am out of my regular routine. I’ve approved everything of yours that I can see. Sinc]

  42. Luke

    Why is it that a Christian who is against abortion, gay marriage or female priests is far-right, but a muslim who believes in all those things plus FGM, forced marriage, underage marriage, women should only be up the back of the mosque, women should be covered up etc etc is somehow a ‘moderate’?

    Ah Tel, when exactly was Islams ” utmost to try all possible means of peaceful settlement first”?

    Chamberlain did not appease Hitler to stop an invasion of England. Chamberlain , like all politicians today, was peacocking around taking all the glory while central and eastern European countries were taking all the risks. England was not on Hitler’s sh*t list until it declared was on Germany. Although it was bound to clash eventually because of England’s interests in so much of the map.

  43. Tel

    Luke, Chamberlain bought some time, and the general arms buildup in Europe had been running for several years, none of them were under any illusions of safety. Chamberlain fully supported the ongoing development of the Spitfire and other weapons. Chamberlain was also the guy who declared war in response to the breaking of the treaty, and he ordered the naval blockade which turned out to be the most effective weapon deployed against Hitler.

    Poland happens to be close to Germany, thus more at risk from German invasion, I don’t really understand how you can blame Chamberlain for that, what did you expect him to do? Move Poland some place else?

  44. Ellen of Tasmania

    Why is it that a Christian who is against abortion, gay marriage or female priests is far-right, but a muslim who believes in all those things plus FGM, forced marriage, underage marriage, women should only be up the back of the mosque, women should be covered up etc etc is somehow a ‘moderate’?

    Because the left hate Christianity and want to see its demise just as much as Muslims do. The Islamists have a very powerful ally in the West – at least for now.

  45. Ellen of Tasmania

    “I favor robust debate on everything – on religion, on policy, on politics, on everything. It is called freedom. But when debate stops, and when a movement decides that they no longer want to debate their ideas, but rather they want to simply subdue, silence, and kill those who disagree…that is called terrorism, barbarism, and inhuman behavior, and it cannot and must not be tolerated.

    Here’s looking at you, lefties.

  46. old bloke

    Ros
    #1571710, posted on January 16, 2015 at 6:35 am

    We are losing folks, our leadership is failing us and it seems until the bottom is reached we are stuck with them.

    +1

    Tel
    #1571783, posted on January 16, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Neville Chamberlain was 100% correct to offer a treaty and an alternative to violence.

    The Czechs might not agree with you.

  47. J.H.

    I think Putin’s increasing authoritarianism and his attack on the Ukraine is much more worrying than Islamofascism….. But I entirely agree with the position that Obama is a failure as a leader and America is leaderless and rudderless as a superpower.

  48. Mick of Brisbane

    Apparently, in Australia it is the taxpayers responsibility to fund the Islamic community clean up.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/terror/radical-fan-base-grows-as-funds-sit-idle/story-fnpdbcmu-1227186492706

  49. rickw

    The Czechs might not agree with you.

    I would question the value of handing “Europes Gunmaker” to the Nazis.

    Chamberlain fully supported the ongoing development of the Spitfire.

    The development of the Spitfire was funded by Supermarine Aircraft and Lady “Poppy” Fanny Lucy Houston after the Ramsay Government pulled funding from it in 1931. I’m not exactly sure when the British Government got back into funding it…

    The credit Chamberlain deserves was that he admitted that he had been wrong and threw his weight behind Churchill, but he is not worthy of too much praise beyond that.

  50. rickw

    I think Putin’s increasing authoritarianism and his attack on the Ukraine is much more worrying than Islamofascism

    The Russians don’t have a breeding rate high enough to represent a sustain threat in the way that Muslims do.

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