Too salacious for Parliamentarians but okay for 11 year olds

Reported in The Australian:

How’s this for bizarre? On July 23 last year the Australian Christian Lobby’s Queensland spokeswoman, Wendy Francis, lodged a petition with the Queensland parliament complaining about the Safe Schools program and asking that it be removed from government schools. It was the second largest petition put to that parliament.

The Safe Schools curriculum, as revealed by The Australian, is a radical form of sex education under the guise of an anti-bullying program. To define the complaint about the program it was neces­sary to quote from resources used in the program.

So the following material from a Safe Schools student resource, OMG I’m Queer, was incorporated into the original petition lodged with the Queensland parliament: “It may come as a surprise, but there is no strict definition for virginity, especially if you’re queer. Penis-in-vagina sex is not the only sex, and certainly not the ultimate sex. If you ask me, virginity is whatever you think it is.”

The Clerk of the Parliament censored this from the Queensland parliament’s e-petition website because it contained “intemperate” language.

“In accordance with standing orders, petitions must be respectful, decorous and temperate and not contain any unparliamentary language or otherwise offend any rule or practice of the house.”

The wording of the petition was amended accordingly.

So, this quotation is considered “intemperate language” in a parliamentary setting but is considered suitable reading for schoolchildren aged 11 and up.

Many Queensland parents didn’t think so. And that is not all. Some of the material, especially that provided by the associated Minus 18 website, is too graphic to pass school firewalls, and students are urged to ask teachers to unblock it. This means a federal education program is advising schools to allow changes to their firewall protection. Parents may be interested in that one.

Why is it that the line, “virginity is whatever you think it is” made me think of former US President Bill Clinton?

Anyway the first part of the story is quite funny. If it weren’t inappropriate we might suggest that our Parliamentarians harden up. But no sniggering and minds out the gutter.

The second part of the story demands an explanation from Senator Birmingham – the federal education minister; why is a federal government funded school program requiring students to ask their schools to relax firewall protections so that school children can access sexually explicit material on the internet?

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226 Responses to Too salacious for Parliamentarians but okay for 11 year olds

  1. teddy bear says:

    especially pertinent question considering many in federal parliament want to censor the internet.

  2. TC says:

    The explanation , because he didn’t want to be called a homophobe .

  3. Stackja says:

    ‘Safe School’ is not child safe.
    Just Left agitprop.

  4. Habib says:

    Birmingham makes Pyne seem like Chuck Norris. Where has this plague of chinless beta males spring forth from?

  5. A Lurker says:

    The second part of the story demands an explanation from Senator Birmingham – the federal education minister; why is a federal government funded school program requiring students to ask their schools to relax firewall protections so that school children can access sexually explicit material on the internet?

    In one word – Grooming
    In more words – Brainwashing children into early acceptance and normalisation of deviant sexual behaviours before their brains develop a sufficient level of maturity enough to handle such concepts.

    p.s. I wonder if the people promoting this Orwellian-named ‘Safe Schools’ propaganda would pass a Working with Children Check?

  6. rickw says:

    This is complete madness, people need to be sacked over this.

  7. I am the Walras, Equilibrate, and Price-Take says:

    The whole thing is utterly sickening. And the so-called ‘conservatives’ won’t lift a finger to stop its progress.

    The second part of the story demands an explanation from Senator Birmingham …

    Good luck with that. He’s just another PoMo Frankfurt School leftard urinating in the eye of Menzies’ Child.

    Habib
    #1959752, posted on February 28, 2016 at 3:18 pm
    Birmingham makes Pyne seem like Chuck Norris.

    Who’da thunk they’d ever have seen the day? It doesn’t seem possible for the Liberals to fall further, and yet they keep notching up new records.

  8. MD says:

    You see, this is why the Left are taking over everything. They offer directionless, under-achieving juveniles a bit of excitement and reward them with the social power of having shocked others and stuck it to the ‘oldies’ and/or ‘conservatives’.

  9. H B Bear says:

    safe schools is the marriage equality of buggery.

  10. cuckoo says:

    Why do the ‘Safe Schools’ advocates remind of Michael Jackson, as he appears in that episode of South Park? Every time Wacko Jacko does something creepy, pervy, paedy and he gets called on it, he launches into a singsong about how no, it isn’t what it looks like and ‘you just don’t understaaand..’

    In my thankfully limited experience of these kinds, they are always testing the limits of what the straight world will let them get away with, but every time someone finally pushes back, it’s suddenly ‘No, it’s not what you think, you just don’t understand…’

  11. johno says:

    Birmingham is a pathetic wet wimp. He has completely rolled over to his bureacrats. He gives lapdogs a bad name.

  12. Gab says:

    None of them have any sense of decency remaining and promote their disgusting agenda under a euphemism; Birmingham, turnbull, Wong, Shorten and the rest of them.

    This is exploitation of children by furthering their socialist dogma to ensure the next generation will be even more depraved than the current one.

    This state-enforced awakening of sexual activities – under the guise of “safe education” – in the young is the exact same modus operandi of ped0philes.

  13. Muddy says:

    In one word – Grooming

    Like your work A Lurker. As I’ve dribbled before, it all begins with the language we use; language our ideological enemies and social insurgents are happy to appropriate and redefine.

  14. Ellen of Tasmania says:

    Don’t forget to let the good senator know how you feel. He’s just a short email away.

    ‘Safe Schools’. How Orwellian.

  15. whirrwhirr says:

    I find it funny to see narrow minded “libertarians” frothing at the mouth over a sex education program designed to allow a relatively small minority of the population the freedom to be who they are, without fear of abuse. And not be able to come up with anything more coherent than the tired old ‘pedo’ linkage. It is a queer old world out there filled with a broad spectrum of sexualities and genders, and the privilege of teaching our kids about sex is no longer in the hands of nuns. So I suggest you guys save yourself the stress to your cold, shrivelled hearts, and ‘get use to it’, as in “We’re here, we’re queer, get use to it”

  16. ella says:

    In 2015, Ontario, Canada, Deputy Education Minister, Benjamin Levin was arrested and sentenced to three years prison. Levin is a ped…..fle. The Toronto police arrested Levin after an online investigation involving police in Ontario, London and New Zealand. Levin was involved in Ontario’s ‘inclusive education’ strategy as it is called.

    The Ontario Premier, Kathleen Wynne is a lesbian, and the sex-ed curriculum drawn up by the Ontario Education Department has to be seen to be believed. As far as I am aware Canadian parents are still fighting with politicians and the education department over the curriculum.

    Ontario parents suspected their children were being groomed for sex, and they were right. All details are on the Net. I’m not sure what I can link on this topic without going into moderation.

    It is important to note that the claim made by the gender pushers that male and female are social constructs is an outright lie.

    There needs to be a thorough police investigation of politicians, academics, and education department officials involved in the ‘Safe Schools’ – and that includes Birmingham.

  17. MareeS says:

    “Virginity is whatever you think it is.” Well, isn’t that a way for the bien pensants to chuck young innocents under the train. It doesn’t matter if you are aged 2 or 12, it’s just an idea, whatever you think it is. What nonsense!

    I remember the moment I became a non-virgin, very blah in its utter stickiness, and that’s possibly the case for most of us who are no longer virgins of either sex. So glad I didn’t marry that one. My husband of 41 years today is actually a nice person to do that with, but even better for conversation over dinner, and spending months at sea together. That’s a better test of compatibility.

  18. Gab says:

    It is important to note that the claim made by the gender pushers that male and female are social constructs

    Anti-science nuttery at it’s finest.

  19. elhombre says:

    You like your 11 year olds well groomed do you whirrwhirr ?

  20. JohnA says:

    Stackja #1959751, posted on February 28, 2016 at 3:15 pm

    ‘Safe School’ is not child safe.
    Just Left agitprop.

    No, not “just” but actively grooming children.

    If that sort of language was used by an individual to a child in the “target profile” they would be at risk of being charged under the predation laws.

  21. JohnA says:

    I am the Walras, Equilibrate, and Price-Take #1959797, posted on February 28, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    The whole thing is utterly sickening. And the so-called ‘conservatives’ won’t lift a finger to stop its progress.

    Some of us in Victoria have been battling this ever since it was released.

  22. JohnA says:

    Apologies:

    LGBTI-Victoria-stan

  23. Sinclair Davidson says:

    a sex education program designed to allow a relatively small minority of the population the freedom

    11 year olds are underage irrespective of their sexual preferences. How adults choose to fornicate is their own business. Children, not so much.

  24. john of dandenong says:

    Wanta bring the budget to surplus? Stop all grants to the non-productive, i.e., arts, luvies, academia, indiginous, alpbc, sbs, the re-emerging crown of thorns research, the declining climate whatever, literary awards, preditability unproductive “refugees” and every other wanker group. Idiot pollies spend taxpayers money making themselves “big” in handing it out. Every night on TV, Oz kids with rare and terminal illnesses pleading for help with little or no Gov support.

    WHAT A SHOWER OF SHIT

  25. Roger says:

    So, the long marchers – sexual perverts & deviants brigade – reach the schools.

    Funded by your taxes.

    Not only will the revolution be televised, it will be subsidised.

  26. whirrwhirr says:

    elhombre: the program is for high school students. The ’11 year old’ reference is one of the many BS lies being bandied about.

  27. Sinclair Davidson says:

    No doubt the review will establish what age children are being exposed to this program. The age of consent remains well above 11, or 12, or 13, or 14, or 15 and in some states even 16.

  28. Gab says:

    What a shame kids can’t just be encouraged to understand that bullying of another human being is wrong, without this urgent desire to introduce gender and sexuality into the mix.

  29. Gab says:

    Apparently, heterosexuals never ever experience bullying in schools.

  30. whirrwhirr says:

    Sinc: sex education is taught all throughout high school and primary school as well. The Safe schools program is aligned to the Health and Physical Education learning area of the Australian Curriculum. Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

  31. Gab says:

    The Safe schools program

    was sold a an anti-bullying program, which clearly turned out to be a lie and instead is all about “educating” 11 year-olds about queer, gay and lesbian “sex”. So vital to an 11 year-old’s knowledge base for sure.

  32. A Lurker says:

    the program is for high school students. The ’11 year old’ reference is one of the many BS lies being bandied about.

    Really?

    The program continued to gain popularity, with 515 member schools and 10 more joining in the past week.

    Are you absolutely certain (and I’d like factual and provable data) that ALL those schools are high schools, and none of them have primary school aged children attending.

    Btw, do you know that Year 7 (which used to be in Primary Schools) is now in High School, and Year 7’s are majority 11yr old children.

  33. Somerville says:

    Well ‘whirrwhirr’ you are there, you are queer, and the political/media/academic elites insist that we have to get used to it. But I won’t have you any where near my children.

    BTW, what age do you prefer the children to be when you are grooming them?

  34. Tel says:

    11 year olds are underage irrespective of their sexual preferences. How adults choose to fornicate is their own business. Children, not so much.

    I would go along with that. I know it’s difficult to draw a sharp line here… just like it’s difficult to draw a line between early abortion (morning after pill, clump of cells) and late term abortion (slit the baby throat) but regardless of that difficulty in the details, 11 years old is too young.

    Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

    With 11 year olds, just teach them not to worry about sex, it’s something adults do. There’s nothing wrong with teaching older kids about basic reproduction (if you do this, you will get pregnant, so use a rubber). After that, there’s plenty of places they can search it out for themselves. Shit, we have kids walking out who don’t know how to read and write, let alone handle basic logic. The schools have more important jobs.

    Besides, why not leave some space for the parents in this world? No need to write them off completely, maybe they like talking to their kids now and then. Could catch on…

  35. hzhousewife says:

    In our house, we tried to teach that is is perfectly all right to say NO.

    NO to getting in a car with a stranger, even if your best friend wants to.
    NO to jumping in the boot to get into the country show for free.
    NO to drinking alcohol in secret behind the grandstand at the footy match.
    NO to taking pills from friends.
    NO to being kissed or groped by someone you don’t much like.

    ETC.

    So far, it has worked for us.
    Kids don’t seem to get the message that it’s OK to say NO from anywhere else.

  36. whirrwhirr says:

    A Lurker: I stand corrected, The “All of Us” unit is designed for Year 7 and 8, but as I said to Sinc it is aligned with the Australian Curriculum, so is age appropriate.

  37. candy says:

    When first reading Cory. B comments I felt this program was inappropriate and something weird going on, but there again, I have not read the material they put out or anything.

    Kids are exposed to lots of sexual stuff all over the place. Possibly there is more a need to address bullying in this respect in schools than we know? It’s different society than it used to be, after all and kids are far “older” than their years now (though perhaps not much smarter).

    John Howard today called it “puzzling” which made me wonder since he’s 75+ years, perhaps parents 35+ have different experiences with their kids in today’s world – just asking, that’s all.

  38. whirrwhirr says:

    Somerville: why isn’t teaching kids about hetro sex, grooming as well? you have heard of hetro pedophiles?

  39. Mayan says:

    What a shame kids can’t just be encouraged to understand that bullying of another human being is wrong, without this urgent desire to introduce gender and sexuality into the mix … Apparently, heterosexuals never ever experience bullying in schools.

    Of course, but as many of us have seen, and even been on the receiving end, the bullying gets worse when you’re different. However, you’re right in principle, and children should be taught, ideally by the example of their parents, that it is fine to disapprove of what someone else does, but that everyone is deserving of being accorded some basic level of dignity. It’s called tolerance, in the older sense of the world, or live and let live to use a common expression.

    Sinc: sex education is taught all throughout high school and primary school as well.

    Whirwhir makes a good point. Despite not being Catholic, I ended up at a one of their schools for a few years. (Double irony points: it was an all boys school.) Despite being run by a religious organisation, they did cover sex education reasonably well, including birth control and STD prevention. It is quite obvious that there really isn’t anything that gays and lesbians can do that straight people cannot (well, maybe certain permutations, but they’re just variations on a theme). Given that, it’s hard to imagine that the sex education curriculum would need much alteration to cover queers.

    In an ideal world, parents would explain the facts of life to their kids. Sadly, a great many parents seem to shirk their responsibilities. So, in the interests of not having hoards of teenagers getting pregnant or ending up with STDs, the lesser evil is for schools to explain the basics. Sure, there are many who think that their offspring will be faithfully abstinent until their wedding night, but in the real world, as we all know, that’s not always the case.

    As for the issue of firewalls and kids having access to many types of information, it is easy to sensationalise the topic and bemoan the fall of our civilisation, as several well-known Romans did a couple of thousand years ago. However, the little dears are more at risk at home, in front of their computers, with their parents in the next room. The truth is that schools have kids for much less time than their parents. As a teacher friend said, when you see parents at a parent-teacher night, many mysteries are explained.

    As for any fears that this will turn kids gay, it seems that it’s nigh impossible to turn gays straight, so it’s about as implausible that sex education will turn straight kids gay. And as for any fears that they might catch ‘Teh Trans’, given how many of my peers have been spurned by their families, and have even the target of murder attempts by their parents, well perhaps that is part of why this well-intended campaign, replete with poor execution and cringe-worthy content has been contemplated.

    So, live and let live.

  40. Some History says:

    The can of worms has been opened.

    We here at this blog are still learning about all the pronouns some folks use in the trans community, so we compiled a list of pronouns used in the trans community. This is definetly not all of them. Send us ask if you’d like to add yours! And tell us where it goes!
    All in alphabetical order for your convenience! Find what makes you most comfortable!

    http://transcutiesprotection.tumblr.com/post/123333622545/pronouns-list

    Interestingly, this site also uses the term “safe places”.

    “Trans” no longer refers to just gender. It can refer to race, age, animals, non-human “life forms” (including mythological creatures). For example, a white person can believe that they are “really” a black person. An apparent human being can believe that they are really a wolf or a dolphin or an armadillo…. or even a dragon, maybe a pink dragon.

  41. A Lurker says:

    Of course, but as many of us have seen, and even been on the receiving end, the bullying gets worse when you’re different.

    Different as in shy, taller, shorter, thinner, plumper, red haired, acne, cross-eyed, smelly, wearing thick glasses, wearing unfashionable clothes, following the wrong footy team, having an unpopular friend, or simply by being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Children call out differences all the time and no-one is spared.
    Dealing with it is called growing up, and it builds character.

    However, you’re right in principle, and children should be taught, ideally by the example of their parents, that it is fine to disapprove of what someone else does, but that everyone is deserving of being accorded some basic level of dignity.

    Yes – that should be the be all and end all of what should be taught.

  42. Some History says:

    One day after Christmas, Washington state quietly adopted a set of new policies regarding transgender individuals using sex-specific facilities. The rules, adopted by the state Human Rights Commission, make it illegal for business owners to limit sex-specific facilities such as bathrooms, showers, and locker rooms to persons with the anatomical parts of one sex……

    http://dailysignal.com/2016/01/04/washington-quietly-adopts-new-transgender-bathroom-locker-room-policies/
    http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/states-rules-for-transgender-restroom-access-set-off-debate/

  43. slow&easy says:

    Mayan
    Yes Mayan, having read some of your past posts on similar subjects, you would say that!
    Respectfully disagree.

  44. Splatacrobat says:

    It’s about normalising the abnormal.
    Alphabet ideology is now cloaked in words like acceptance and diversity.
    Sounds nice doesn’t it?
    Who could argue that we don’t want to be friends and all get along together?
    People who don’t like diversity must be divisive.
    Divisive people need to be educated and bought along a journey of self discovery.
    Only when they are enlightened about there’re abnormal views and beliefs will they be able to understand and share the pain of being of one of us.
    We have a program to help you see that we are normal people and how to guard yourself against divisive abnormal bigots who judge you.

    All sexual proclivities are equal –
    but some are more equal than others……….and if you ask your teacher to lower the school’s fire wall, we can show you why.

  45. C.L. says:

    The purpose of the “Safe Schools” program is the sexual grooming of children – by the same political left that tried heroically to legalise child molestation throughout the 1970s.

    It is a queer old world out there filled with a broad spectrum of sexualities and genders.

    No. There are only two genders and 98 percent of people are heterosexual.

  46. Sinclair Davidson says:

    Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

    I’m an equal opportunity discriminator – I don’t think there should be any sex education in schools.

  47. Infidel Tiger says:

    The other 2% wish they were. We need to support them.

  48. classical_hero says:

    Safe Schools is Pedobear approved.

  49. memoryvault says:

    Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

    Well, gee, whirrwhirr, dunno. Could it have anything to do with straight hetro sex being the norm for 90% plus of the population? After all, we don’t teach kiddies advanced BDSM techniques, ponygirl care and grooming, the joys of MILF/BBC relationships, penis humiliation, basic bestiality or necrophilia either. I wonder why? Or do you think we should be?

  50. I Am the Walras, Equilibrate and Price Take says:

    JohnA
    #1959863, posted on February 28, 2016 at 5:05 pm
    I am the Walras, Equilibrate, and Price-Take #1959797, posted on February 28, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    The whole thing is utterly sickening. And the so-called ‘conservatives’ won’t lift a finger to stop its progress.

    Some of us in Victoria have been battling this ever since it was released.

    My apologies, I wasn’t targeting you and your associates in the least.

    My targets were the 54 testicle-free careerists who support the Turnwit.

  51. memoryvault says:

    So, straight into moderation.
    I wonder which of the “activities” offended the spam monster?

  52. memoryvault says:

    Let’s not forget the previous Liberal Education Minister, Christopher Pyne, spent his first eight months in office reviewing the National Curriculum. In detail. He gave it his “thumbs up”

  53. whirrwhirr says:

    MV: from what I have read of the Safe Schools program there was no mention, teaching, or promotion of any ‘activities’ per se

  54. memoryvault says:

    Here you go whirrwhirr, here’s an example of school bullying.

    Teenager sues Victoria’s Education Department after ongoing homophobic bullying

    Now, what’s the REAL story here? Well, we find this gem buried deep down in the story:

    His mother Cathilee Whitmore said she made constant complaints to the principal, Christopher Lloyd, about the bullying but nothing was done.

    So, imagine this, whirrwhirr. Imagine if the first time that bully bullied anybody, his parents had got a written warning. Imagine if the second time the bully had been suspended for a week. And imagine if there had been a third time, the bully had been expelled – not just from that school – but from EVERY state school.

    Better yet, imagine if when the bully beat his victim up, he had been charged with assault, and spent the next couple of years in an institution.

    No more bullying. Simples.

  55. Mayan says:

    MV: from what I have read of the Safe Schools program there was no mention, teaching, or promotion of any ‘activities’ per se

    A good point. Learning about war and torture in a history class isn’t an invitation to commit those crimes; learning about chemical reactions in chemistry class is not viewed as an invitation to start a meth lab; and the teach of how a nuclear weapon works in high school physics is not a call to nuke anything.

    Although, given the tax rates in this country, I can see why some people start meth labs.

  56. teddy bear says:

    It was my understanding that what is or was taught was more puberty and reproduction education with std’s added later. The purpose of the first lessons being to teach kids that the changes in their bodies are normal and natural and how babies are made and thus reduce teen pregnancies that occur through ignorance, that was year 7 I think. Std’s and safe sex ie. wearing a condom was added around year 9 or 10, it was focused on the types of std’s and how they are spread not the specific sex acts that spread them.

    I believe that is all that should be taught and nothing more.

  57. whirrwhirr says:

    MV: and you don’t think that the Safe Schools program might have helped prevent such bullying?

  58. memoryvault says:

    MV: from what I have read of the Safe Schools program there was no mention, teaching, or promotion of any ‘activities’ per se

    Whirrwhirr, I don’t mind debating with you, but if you’re just going to lie through your arse, there’s not much point. The “activity” of eleven to twelve year old boys, pretending they are sixteen year olds, going on a date with another sixteen boy, and describing how they would “feel” about the adverse reactions of their peers, has been covered in the MSM from arseholes to breakfast time.

  59. whirrwhirr says:

    MV: and you equate that exercise with BSDM and bestiality?

  60. ella says:

    Mayan
    #1959935, posted on February 28, 2016 at 5:56 pm

    The truth is that schools have kids for much less time than their parents. As a teacher friend said, when you see parents at a parent-teacher night, many mysteries are explained.”

    Mayan – The following are two claims as to what constitutes truth. Which one is correct?

    1) The truth is absolute.

    2) The truth is relative.

    Both cannot be correct.

  61. memoryvault says:

    MV: and you don’t think that the Safe Schools
    program might have helped prevent such bullying?

    No. Schools have been running this kind of bullshit “acceptance” crap since my son started in primary school 25 years ago. 20 years later my granddaughter’s school was offering “safe space” rooms at lunch time, where the bullied could hide from bullies. Then there would be the “confrontation” sessions where my granddaughter had to sit facing the bully and explain how much the bullying hurt her feelings. All that did was encourage the bully. It only ended when I taught granddaughter how to palm-plant up under the nose.

    A bully only understands one thing: a bigger bully. That has to be the school.
    Just expel the pricks. No more bullying.

  62. Mayan says:

    ella: The truth is absolute.

    40 weeks x 5 days x 7 hours = 1,400 hours.
    Assume 16 waking hours a day to get (52*7*16)-1,400 = 4,424 hours.

    And that’s ignoring the time before they go to school.

    So, yes, “the truth is that schools have kids for much less time than their parents.”

  63. Mayan says:

    The content of the programme resembles the work of a first year university student — a not terribly bright one — who decided to take a shortcut with some internet research, digging up some worthwhile material, but not knowing what was waffling from fringe elements, and then slapping it together.

    Although some things are worthy of a mention, there’s a large amount of waffle that distracts from its stated aim.

  64. rich says:

    Given that, it’s hard to imagine that the sex education curriculum would need much alteration to cover queers.

    Yes it does! Leaving someone out might offend them, obviously!

  65. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    It only ended when I taught granddaughter how to palm-plant up under the nose.

    An invaluable skill to pass onto the younger generation – I taught my young nephew said skill. His Greenie parents were horrified when he was sent home from school for demonstrating his new found expertise in defending himself.

  66. Tel says:

    You can get a ponygirl?

    Dang! Now I feel ignorant and uneducated.

  67. You all need to be very careful with this bullying in schools thing, because it now seems that “bullying” is so broadly defined by schools that pretty much anything that one doesn’t like can be considered bullying.

    Anti-bullying programs seem to be more like cultural marxist indoctrination programs.

    It’s a madhouse out there.

  68. Cheryl says:

    +1 Teddybear.

  69. ella says:

    Mayan
    #1959935, posted on February 28, 2016 at 5:56 pm

    “ella: The truth is absolute.”

    Yes! This truth claim underlies freedom of speech.

    Which claim is valid?

    ella: I am female (woman).

    Transgender: I am female (woman).

    Which claim is valid. Remember, the truth is not relative.

  70. C.L. says:

    I have to laugh heartily at the left’s pretense at giving a shit about bullying as they go about bullying 74 year-old George Pell.

  71. Mayan says:

    ella: You’re really mad that you can’t do maths, aren’t you?

    FYI, in my case there was some ambiguity at birth, which the doctors “corrected”, except that they got it wrong. For TMI, no tucking for me, because there just plain wasn’t enough to tuck.

    Challenge quiz: there is a long list of intersex conditions, and also the evidence that shows distinct brain differences in transsexuals, which indicates a neurological intersex condition. One such intersex condition in the literature saw a woman born with XY chromosomes giving birth to a daughter with a similar condition. She was quite blissfully unaware of that for much of her life. For all you know, you might not be the clearly defined woman you believe yourself to be.

    Reality isn’t neat, and biology is a real mess. Although I do believe there is an objective reality, it’s worth noting the ramifications of the writings of Popper and others, and also with respect to Bayesian statistics. We seek the truth, and given that we don’t start off with all of it, we are like the apocryphal blind people encountering their first elephant. We take what we know what reality is and develop a theory of it, live with that for a while, then discover something that makes us rethink what the truth might be. Alas, many people fall into the trap of screaming that ‘the science is settled’, when in reality we can never be sure of that, even if we believe, as do I, that there a reality there to be discovered.

    For a similar error in logic, see an article in ‘The Atlantic’ (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/the-invention-of-the-normal-person/463365/) about how the average of measurements came to be conflated with the thing itself.

  72. C.L. says:

    Mayan, all of that is a long way from the “identifying as” cultural movement.

  73. Maryanne says:

    Why are Australian governments allowing schoolchildren to be brainwashed into this gender crap? Wouldn’t they be better off doing schoolwork instead of being encouraged to prematurely fret about their sexuality?

  74. Mayan says:

    Mayan, all of that is a long way from the “identifying as” cultural movement.

    Quite, but irritating activist types aside, there are some (maybe 1 in 5,000) whose gross biology says one sex, but they function much, much better as the other. And there is the annoying, ever-building pile of evidence that there is something in their brains.

  75. Mayan says:

    C.L. perhaps much the ever-growing acronym of groups that have been added just to pad the number of people whom activists claim to represent is not what the activists claim it to be, but rather merely eccentric behaviour, the type of thing that was once tolerated (in the older sense of the word), often the subject of gossip, and sometimes even enjoyed.

  76. Crossie says:

    Let’s not forget the previous Liberal Education Minister, Christopher Pyne, spent his first eight months in office reviewing the National Curriculum. In detail. He gave it his “thumbs up”

    But of course he did.

  77. Crossie says:

    I have to laugh heartily at the left’s pretense at giving a shit about bullying as they go about bullying 74 year-old George Pell.

    C.L., it’s not bullying when they do it because they’re all into justice and stuff. Beesides, all Catholics deserve it according to the left.

  78. C.L. says:

    Thanks for your posts/replies, Mayan.

  79. Splatacrobat says:

    Quite, but irritating activist types aside, there are some (maybe 1 in 5,000) whose gross biology says one sex, but they function much, much better as the other. And there is the annoying, ever-building pile of evidence that there is something in their brains.

    No one is arguing about statistical blimps in brain abnormalities here Maya. It is all about the irritating activist types as you describe them. It’s the activists that want to turn abnormal into the every day and make the everyday seem abnormal.

    The LGBTIQ people are only the tip of the iceberg. There are a whole host of sub groups and sub-sub groups that fall into “Something going on with my brain that makes me feel different” categories.
    If 1500 self identifying snowdroppers were able to secure public funding to teach kiddies that getting off on your neighbour’s intimates was okay, would you support it? What about bear and twinky relationships?

  80. David Brewer says:

    Penis-in-vagina sex is not the only sex, and certainly not the ultimate sex.

    Wasn’t it a Queensland minister for Sport, Racing, Censorship and the Yarts who, justifying banning some 70s skinflick, opined that:

    “I don’t think Queenslanders appreciate having male and female genitals rammed down their throats.”

    I see Quikipedia attributes this to Rocks Messup but I feel it goes further back (so to speak)…

  81. Splatacrobat says:

    C.L. perhaps much the ever-growing acronym of groups that have been added just to pad the number of people whom activists claim to represent is not what the activists claim it to be,

    Yes agree Mayan. They practice safety in numbers. If they truly spelt out all the groups and sub groups that make up the other than hetro set the acronym would be longer than a Welsh railway station.

  82. John says:

    And there is the annoying, ever-building pile of evidence that there is something in their brains.

    Well, may be having a separate schools for kids with abnormalities is a better solution then? They do this for autistic kids.

    Another angle that hasn’t been discussed here so far is the Marxist ideology behind all this. One of the coordinators of the “Safe Schools” Coalition did say this during last year Marxist conference:
    “To smooth the operation of capitalism the ruling class has benefited, and continues to benefit, from oppressing our bodies, relationships, sexuality and gender identities alongside sexism, homophobia and transphobia; both serve to break the spirits of ordinary people, to consume our thoughts, to make us accept the status quo and for us to keep living or aspiring to live, or feel like we should live, in small units and families where we must reproduce and take responsibility for those people in those units.”

    That’s scary.

  83. cynical1 says:

    Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

    A poor standard of education:

    lesson 1. Just because you have a penis, doesn’t mean you cannot be a girl, if you want too be…

  84. JohnL says:

    How is this [sexual] grooming different from ISIL grooming?

    [Edited. It is possible to discuss the principles without descending into that. Sinc]

  85. Mayan says:

    C.L. — A pleasure.

    Splatacrobat — “If 1500 self identifying snowdroppers were able to secure public funding to teach kiddies that getting off on your neighbour’s intimates was okay, would you support it? What about bear and twinky relationships?”

    I don’t even want to know what a bear-twinky relationship is, but since you mention it, it’s amazing how much perversity I learn about by reading people’s objections to this programme. A bear and a thing from a vending machine? Really? And why are so many people saying this is a conspiracy to groom children for paedophiles? Is there something I (very fortunately, I might add) missed out on in my childhood? Aren’t twinkies American?

    Once you go beyond the issue of sexuality (gays and lesbians), transsexuals (who really do need to transition and have surgery lest they kill themselves) and intersex people (sometimes obvious, sometimes not), then you enter the world of ‘some people are different’. There, a phrase that covers it. I think of some of this as eccentricity. I know someone who is a furry. I don’t really understand that, but, hey, live and let live. There’s no need to cover furries. Is the bear-twinkie thing related to furries? At some point a line should be drawn. And, really, the Safe Schools programme is orders of magnitude too much information. Those who need the information can find it.

    As someone who can stick her hand up in respond to callouts for intersex and transsexual people, I feel that minimalism is the best approach. There is a vast amount of information out there for kids who were like the me of many years ago.

    And a postscript: I sincerely did not want my situation. No one in my situation did, because it’s a rather awkward situation, to put it mildly. I was raised by believing parents who voted Liberal in a very stable and loving environment. I’m certainly not the product of cultural Marxism.

    Then again, if a bear will molest Leonardo Di Caprio, maybe it will molest the output of a vending machine. Or maybe the vending machine itself. Are bears perverts?

  86. ella says:

    Mayan
    #1960097, posted on February 28, 2016 at 8:45 pm
    “ella: You’re really mad that you can’t do maths, aren’t you?”

    I can do math to a high level and that’s a fact, Mayan.

    “Challenge quiz: there is a long list of intersex conditions, and also the evidence that shows distinct brain differences in transsexuals, which indicates a neurological intersex condition.”

    Indeed. And there is another condition ( a given) ignored in this your debate. It is called psychopathology – mental illness.

    ” Alas, many people fall into the trap of screaming that ‘the science is settled’, when in reality we can never be sure of that, even if we believe, as do I, that there a reality there to be discovered.”

    Would you like to take the gravity test? I’d be happy to throw you off the top of a fucking skyscraper any time you like.

    Let’s you and I test the math Mayan.

  87. Mayan says:

    What does gravity have to do with anything? Unless you’re a crackpot trying to do something that involves carnal relations with your cousin … and brother?

    The fact is that you fail maths. Teachers have kids for much less time than others. It’s a mathematical fact, Please, seek psychiatric help to learn how to deal with this. Better, please care for your children better.

    However, please continue to insist that the science isn’t settled – you possibly intersex cow.

  88. Zyconoclast says:

    Whirrwhirr, I don’t mind debating with you, but if you’re just going to lie through your arse, …

    MV, if lying through his arse was the the only problem, it would be OK.
    It’s all the other arse work that may be of concern, Safe Schools wise that is.

  89. MareeS says:

    I have a blue card (working with children) issued by NSW police just so that I can have access to my SLSC. I have no desire or intention to work with children, thanks very much. The further away, the better.

    So, how do these creeps get access to primary schools, have a large say in the curriculum, to the point that it’s looking a lot like paedophile grooming?

  90. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From memoryvault at 7:24 pm:

    ” MV: and you don’t think that the Safe Schools
    program might have helped prevent such bullying?

    No. Schools have been running this kind of bullshit “acceptance” crap since my son started in primary school 25 years ago. 20 years later my granddaughter’s school was offering “safe space” rooms at lunch time, where the bullied could hide from bullies. Then there would be the “confrontation” sessions where my granddaughter had to sit facing the bully and explain how much the bullying hurt her feelings. All that did was encourage the bully. It only ended when I taught granddaughter how to palm-plant up under the nose.

    A bully only understands one thing: a bigger bully. That has to be the school.
    Just expel the pricks. No more bullying.”

    I see the chinless minister is justifying directing that homosexuality be encouraged in schools by linking this evil program to bullying, and I am amused by your response to the character trolling here for the kiddie groomers set.

    I dealt with bullying well in advance, on my knees in the kitchen with my son as a child coaching “Lead with your left, score with your right”, just as my father taught me and my brothers. He followed a family trait of slow to anger but capable when necessary.

    My three daughters joined their older brother at his school in their final two years, because it offered co-ed for that period, which I thought was a good idea (co-ed beyond that is a very bad idea, keep ’em apart I say). Some dope tried the tough boy act early in the piece for No 2 daughter.

    A day or two later big brother found out and went for a drive with his mate. Tough boy (in the same year as him) answered his front door and found himself propelled across his entrance lobby (by the most outstanding front rowers the college First XV had fielded) and buried in the gyprock wall behind him. They turned around and left.

    I heard the whole story over dinner that night and enquired about the punishee’s name – “Oh, Mrs Senior Form Mistress’ son.” “Fabulous” thinks I, the most senior lay teacher at the college “This will be good.” As it happened I heard nothing more about it and the girls enjoyed their years well protected and undisturbed.

    They dealt with it themselves and well, without expert interference.

  91. Viva says:

    Some historical context:

    During the 1970’s, a radical form of feminism developed and with it the ideology of the gender perspective. The gender perspective is based upon a completely new understanding of the term gender. According to the gender perspective there is to be no longer any relationship between ‘sex’ and ‘gender’. Instead, the terms are to be understood independently.

    Gender perspective theorists maintain that, although ‘sex’ as a biological construct exists, the concept of ‘gender’ is much more important. Furthermore, gender is simply a socially and culturally constructed role which is not connected to any biological criteria and, as a result, can be altered at will.

    Humankind must be fundamentally emancipated from the ‘class of sex’, in other words, from the binary sex categories of male and female. If the differences between man and woman are the source of all oppression, then the only objective can be an ‘equality’ in which all differences (as far as possible) are eliminated. Those distinctions which cannot be removed are declared irrelevant.

    A central strategy of the gender perspective is to blur the category of gender, making every differentiation between man and woman irrelevant. The objective is to “ambiguate gender” and, not least, to eliminate the “binary view of sex”. Only in doing so can the goal of ‘equality’ be achieved – and here we are confronted with the reinterpretation of the term equality. Equality is now to be understood as the complete interchangeability of woman and man.

    A decisive step toward the world-wide diffusion of gender mainstreaming took place at the 4th World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995. In the conference’s final resolution The Beijing Platform for Action it says: “Governments and other actors should promote an active and visible policy of mainstreaming a gender perspective in all policies and programmes.“ The phrase “mainstreaming a gender perspective” was shortened to gender mainstreaming.

    By the end of 1995, the general recommendations of the Beijing Conference had become an obligation within the United Nations: The UN made a binding commitment to the objectives of gender mainstreaming, with the European Union following in 1996 and the German government in 2000.

    http://www.dijg.de/english/gender-sex-mainstreaming-perspective/

    Thanks to the Safe Schools program it looks like gender mainstreaming is now well underway in Australian schools.

  92. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    He followed a family trait of slow to anger but capable when necessary.

    Well said.

  93. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From Viva at 11:48 pm:

    “Some historical context:

    During the 1970’s, a radical form of feminism developed … based upon a completely new understanding of the term gender….

    Equality is now to be understood as the complete interchangeability of woman and man.

    … The Beijing Platform for Action it says: “Governments and other actors should promote an active and visible policy of mainstreaming a gender perspective in all policies and programmes.“

    Thanks to the Safe Schools program it looks like gender mainstreaming is now well underway in Australian schools.”

    Thank you for outlining the greatest load of invented bullship imaginable.

    I have the great good fortune to live with one foot in Asian culture and the other in Australia. In more than twenty years I have not seen a single sign that the Asian culture is shifting away from the typical centuries old matriarchal family focus and its easy balance with patriarchal sustenance and protection.

  94. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    Ooops – I sent that post prematurely. I add:

    In the several places I visit there everyone is busy with life and focused on success for the family. The region has opened up markedly, the middle class is growing and these notions of which you speak are quite foreign to their mindset. If I asked around I venture I would hear “Why are you dopey white people so obsessed with such destructive ideas?”

    I do hope they remain isolated from this bullship and insulated from the charlatans who would have them worship the new way forward to cultural disintegration.

    My guess is that they will because their priorities are so different and their family cohesiveness is so much better.

  95. Yobbo says:

    With 11 year olds, just teach them not to worry about sex, it’s something adults do.

    Except that’s completely wrong.

    Our age of consent laws remain in the dark ages, 16 is not the minimum age for sex for most people, it’s the median age. That is to say, just as many Australian kids are having sex before the age of 16 as are waiting until after 16. Half the country are criminals.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14696703

    Sexual activity among children aged 11 and up is commonplace. It’s naive to suggest that kids don’t need sexual education. Starting education when they are 14 is simply too late.

  96. Sinc: sex education is taught all throughout high school and primary school as well.

    Who asked the schools to sexually educate our children in the first place? IIRC, we weren’t given a choice. Now the backlash at arrogant minority groups is occurring. they are surprised.
    The parents are responsible for their childrens education, teachers can do the jobs they are supposed to be doing – educating them in the 3Rs.
    Is there a list of the schools who have signed up to the scheme?

  97. wreckage says:

    OK, ok, let’s back up a bit here.

    Why is an anti-bullying campaign teaching sex ed?

    Call me old-fashioned, but isn’t that… sex ed?

    Can someone explain to me why an inaccurate discussion of the idea of “virginity” is included in anti-bullying materials? Virginity has three cultural definitions, and “whatever you feel like, maaaaan” is not one of them. Ergo, the information is inaccurate. Are we to assume that the rest of the program meets the same high standards? Which is to say “anti bullying” which turns out to be sex ed., that isn’t actually sex ed at all, since it doesn’t contain actual information?

    The program is clearly shit, by any objective standard. Fix it. And stop whining about having your mistakes pointed out to you, it’s fucking pathetic.

  98. wreckage says:

    Now the backlash at arrogant minority groups is occurring. they are surprised.

    The tragedy is, it’s probably not the minority groups. The backlash should be directed at fuckwits who can’t even get “bullying is bad, don’t do it” right. Total, utter, wasted oxygen, and probably straight, white cis-females, or whatever it is when your chromosomes and developmental chemistry line up properly.

  99. BorisG says:

    The tragedy is, it’s probably not the minority groups.

    No it is all these greenish activists who pander to minority groups, for the sake of feel good factor.

  100. Yobbo says:

    OK, ok, let’s back up a bit here.

    Why is an anti-bullying campaign teaching sex ed?

    Is it really that hard to grasp?

    Because gay kids are the subject of savage bullying and make up a fair proportion of teen suicides.

  101. BorisG says:

    I actually think that given easy access to internet pornography, we need sex education at schools from very early age. Conservative sensibilities of middle aged men and women is of little help here. Yet it must be adapted for particular age groups very carefully. I don’t think this particular thing is.

  102. dover_beach says:

    Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

    I’m not sure it should be part of the curriculum, much better left to parents and intermediary associations, but one plausible answer to the difference is that we can introduce it as an answer to the question: Where do I come from? In other words, it relates sex to reproduction. Shorn of that, sex education simply becomes a catalogue of how people get off, and how to avoid the pitfalls that might arise therein.

  103. Notafan says:

    Yes, teach human biology and leave the rest to parents.

    It normally arises as a question when children are around six or younger if baby brothers or sisters come along.

    As to what is acceptable in terms of how we treat others and what children should know about sex, that is a parental responsibility.

    The safe schools curriculum is a Trojan horse for a very different agenda. I’d also like some proof that there are links between bullying and teen homosexual suicide. Sue Sharp of Rotherham fame was out here because of her bullying claim to fame, I wonder what part she played in the development of this program?

    Arguing that because some parents aren’t very good is the reason the state should take over is the same one the every child should be in long day care lot use.

    If you are going to waste taxpayer’s money then waste it on improving parenting skills of those groups.

    My friend’s kid was bullied mercilessly for being small and weird, she warned the school that the next time he was shoved into a locker he had permission from her to hit back and the bullying stopped.

    MV is right. An invervene and punish model would be simplest and most effective model to stop bullying ( which of course the Sue Sharps have redefined )

    As for sex for eleven year entertainment, just watching western civilization on its last swirl down the drain hole.
    It sickened me when I heard my son’s 14 year old mate bullying a girl for sex and finding out my daughter ‘s 16 yo friend was being harassed for sex by a boy online.

    That’s all you’ll get from encouraging children to be sexually active. Girls being treated like and acting like whores and bitter angry disillusioned people who are incapable of forming long term relationships.

    We will have utopia and we will have it now.

  104. Notafan says:

    Sonia Sharp. Recruited by Victorian Department of Education for her bullying expertise.
    I wonder if the safe schools curriculum would have prevented all those 11 year old in Rotherham being passed around by the muslim rape gangs.

    Sorry, they were not important.

  105. Yobbo says:

    It sickened me when I heard my son’s 14 year old mate bullying a girl for sex and finding out my daughter ‘s 16 yo friend was being harassed for sex by a boy online.

    That’s all you’ll get from encouraging children to be sexually active. Girls being treated like and acting like whores and bitter angry disillusioned people who are incapable of forming long term relationships.

    Teenagers don’t need to be encouraged to be sexually active you utter moron. Only someone who has led an incredibly sheltered life could believe that teen sex is caused by sex education in schools.

    Having sex before the age of 16 is so normal it’s not even noteworthy. More than 50% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 16.

  106. James Hargrave says:

    ‘I’m an equal opportunity discriminator – I don’t think there should be any sex education in schools.’ Absolutely agree.

    But I have a ‘brilliant idea’. Let’s lower the age of consent to xxx to ‘get with the programme’. Hmm

  107. Entropy says:

    Having sex before the age of 16 is so normal it’s not even noteworthy. More than 50% of teenagers in Australia

    I reckon that’s bullshit.

  108. Clam Chowdah says:

    Penis-in-vagina sex is not the only sex, and certainly not the ultimate sex.

    So what’s the ultimate sex? Bum sex, I suppose. All very queer if you ask me.

  109. Yobbo says:

    I reckon that’s bullshit.

    Probably because you are old.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14696703

  110. Yobbo says:

    RESULTS:
    For men, the median age at first intercourse declined from 18 among men aged 50-59 to 16 for men aged 16-19. For women the decline in median age was from 19 to 16. For

  111. Mayan #1960097, posted on February 28, 2016 at 8:45 pm

    FYI, in my case there was some ambiguity at birth, which the doctors “corrected”, except that they got it wrong. For TMI, no tucking for me, because there just plain wasn’t enough to tuck.

    Challenge quiz: there is a long list of intersex conditions, and also the evidence that shows distinct brain differences in transsexuals, which indicates a neurological intersex condition.
    Reality isn’t neat, and biology is a real mess

    Thanks for making the point that the alphabet soup are nothing but a bunch of genetic errors.

    These don’t need mainstreaming, they need medical assistance.

  112. Penis-in-vagina sex is not the only sex, and certainly not the ultimate sex.

    Spoken by someone without a dick no doubt. What a load of utter utter crap.

    Sex evolved to ensure reproduction, not to mollycoddle those with mental illnesses.

  113. Entropy says:

    Look my son is almost 16. I am certain he and hardly any of his mates have had sex. If a girl as much as looks at them for more than five secs they go all shy and bashful. If a girl decided to go for it with one of them she would be doing pity sex. They aren’t ready.

    If it was first year uni I suspect 50% would be more likely, but any other claim would be taking teenage kids’ bullshit claims at face value, or overly weighted at a pretty dysfunctional segment of the population.

  114. Yobbo says:

    I lost my virginity at 16, and I certainly wasn’t the first kid in my class. And that was in the early 1990s when everyone was terrified of HIV, in a country school in a conservative rural area.

    The average age of first sexual experience has decreased markedly since then. If you think kids aren’t having sex at 14 and 15 then you are just out of touch.

  115. Remember folks, healthy is just a state of mind, there is an entire rainbow of conditions from cancer to diabetes which are perfectly natural, we shouldn’t try to remedy these because normal is just a statistical concoction, we should just accept them as is, in the name of equality.

    A friendly message brought to you by Agenda 21.

  116. In my view as a CONSTITUTIONALIST the Federal government should butt out of education as it still remains a state matter;
    Hansard 1-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates (Official Record of the Debates of the National Australasian Convention)
    QUOTE
    Mr. WISE.-If the Federal Parliament chose to legislate upon, say, the education question-and the Constitution gives it no power to legislate in regard to that question-the Ministers for the time being in each state might say-“We are favorable to this law, because we shall get £100,000 a year, or so much a year, from the Federal Government as a subsidy for our schools,” and thus they might wink at a violation of the Constitution, while no one could complain. If this is to be allowed, why should we have these elaborate provisions for the amendment of the Constitution? Why should we not say that the Constitution may be amended in any way that the Ministries of the several colonies may unanimously agree? Why have this provision for a referendum? Why consult the people at all? Why not leave this matter to the Ministers of the day? But the proposal has a more serious aspect, and for that reason only I will ask permission to occupy a few minutes in discussing it.
    END QUOTE

  117. Struth says:

    Safe schools is nothing more than the war on the only thing that can stop cultural Marxism.
    Men.
    Tell the little boys they’re probably not male, not men , and should not aspire to be such while still at school.

    We can see this as clear as day.

    Again, the architects of this attack on our culture, (and those that may grow up to defend it), protected in our parliament, don’t want to hear it.

  118. Rigby says:

    I feel sick after reading all the homophobic crap. It’s the same when the topic is indigenous disadvantage, all the vile racist trolls come out of their holes. Australia is one of the most intolerant countries that like to call themselves democracies. Good on you ‘whirr whirr’ and the few who understand that the sort of bullying that many children receive caused them to suicide, leave school without qualifying and have a miserable life.

  119. Splatcrobat says:

    For men, the median age at first intercourse declined from 18 among men aged 50-59 to 16 for men aged 16-19. For women the decline in median age was f

    Come on yobbo what 18 year old wouldn’t admit he first had sex at 14,15, etc.
    kids tell their mates everything. I am not aware of any 13 year old in my grade who boasted of having had sex

  120. Mayan says:

    Thanks for making the point that the alphabet soup are nothing but a bunch of genetic errors.

    These don’t need mainstreaming, they need medical assistance.

    Thanks for that, Zippy, and all you other genocidal freaks. You’re the people who fill high school history books, and not as the heroes.

  121. Mayan says:

    I feel sick after reading all the homophobic crap. It’s the same when the topic is indigenous disadvantage, all the vile racist trolls come out of their holes. Australia is one of the most intolerant countries that like to call themselves democracies.

    You’re right about that, Rigby. When I lived in Perth, I picked a suburb rich in facilities, near the city. My colleagues, most of them exceedingly PC and somewhat left-leaning, looked at me as though I were insane when I mentioned the suburb because, in their words, “it has many Aboriginals.” So, it would seem that mindless hatred of Aboriginal people is a bipartisan issue. Having had a somewhat sheltered life until moving there, I was rather taken aback by some of the things people would say, even apropos nothing, about Aboriginal people.

    It was someone from overseas, a self-professed redneck, who shared my outsider role on that issue. If I were to move back to Perth, that same suburb would rate highly on my list.

  122. ella says:

    ” Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?”

    We can tell our kids that anal intercourse carries a 3000% higher risk of contracting HIV. We can also present our kids with the long list of other nasties that can direct them to the ED at the local hospital if the anus is used for purposes other than its design. Also, you are putting lives at risk when suggesting to kids that it is acceptable and normal for individuals who are HIV positive to continue having sex with others.

    The Canadians have blown your cover. Tough luck.

  123. . says:

    All true Yobbo but why are we paying for this stuff if it is obvious?

    Bag it up, don’t be a bully, this is what consent is, don’t commit statutory. Where’s my cheque?

    There is absolutely no Federal head of power for this programme.

  124. Yobbo says:

    Come on yobbo what 18 year old wouldn’t admit he first had sex at 14,15, etc.
    kids tell their mates everything. I am not aware of any 13 year old in my grade who boasted of having had sex

    It’s medical study, not a playground survey. Continue to ignore the facts if you want, but don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

  125. Yobbo says:

    All true Yobbo but why are we paying for this stuff if it is obvious?

    Bag it up, don’t be a bully, this is what consent is, don’t commit statutory.

    And yet up to 50% of Australians are committing statutory on a regular basis, because the laws are out of touch with reality.

    16 is the law, but 50% of Australian teenagers ignore it. Throw them all in jail?

  126. . says:

    Any judge that puts a 16 year old in prison for having consensual sex with a 15 year old needs to be considered for removal. Never mind differences in sexual orientation and other such anomalies for the moment. The thought of tainting their life as a “sexual offender” is absurd and unjust.

    Anyone who thinks the legislation alone is black letter law ought to read the DPP’s practice notes.

    Cases like the above hypothetical are typically pursued by an angry parent – this is not the spirit of the law. Prosecutions are meant to be vigourous but not overzealous. The courts should not allow abuse of process.

    Now it should be obvious why I reckon you should study law, and legal reform should be at the heart of trying to reclaim liberty – imagine if state law was, like Federal law, full of strict and absolute liability, and had civil penalties and 80% minimum plea bargain rules. Let alone mandatory sentencing.

    This stuff matters, these are big issues and they are on shaky constitutional grounds.

  127. Struth says:

    If you let teachers and not parents talk to children about this, you end up with what we have here.
    Child Abuse.
    Unnecessary highlighting of what could easily be handled by any adult, teachers included, as in day to day instruction, IF the subject arises or there is bullying noticed.
    A teacher with half a brain or a parent can work this out in an flash.
    These kids are too young to know who they are or what they are sexually.
    Making it a big deal of it,instead of the adults around children just being not fussed about homosexuality, and the like would be a much better outcome.
    Government schemes always, always end up with the opposite outcome of what their STATED goals are.

  128. Cannibal says:

    Mayan has micromanaged our lives for us.
    We should all be grateful.

    And $8 million of stolen money apparently spent on

    the work of a first year university student — a not terribly bright one

    is just fine. I suppose we should all be grateful that taxpayers got off so lightly this time.

  129. . says:

    On the other thread, it was noted that nerds etc get bullied but if they hit back, they get expelled.

    That is what is wrong with the system.

    We shouldn’t encourage violence but no mercy is shown for being taunted for years in some cases, and actual self defence is simply disregarded.

    If I was a principal and some parent whinged that Jimmy got smacked in the face (no serious harm) for teasing Luke for years for being gay (true or not), my response would be “he got what he wanted so desperately, he should be content”. I’d reprimand Jimmy but not overly harshly and remind him if he were an adult, he could be fined or go to gaol.

    As for self defence – as long as it was not excessive force, it is a non issue unless there are ongoing threats of retaliation.

  130. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From Yobbo at 5:41 am:

    ” …
    Teenagers don’t need to be encouraged to be sexually active you utter moron. …

    Having sex before the age of 16 is so normal it’s not even noteworthy. More than 50% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 16.”

    More than 95% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 13.

    More than 13% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 19.

    More than 66.6% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 11¼.

    Lee Harvey Oswald shot from a book repository and ran to a theatre, John Wilkes Booth shot from a theatre and scarpered to a book repository.

    I just made most of that up.

    notafan:

    “I disagree.”

    Yobbo, persuasively:

    “You utter moron.”

    Entropy:

    “I reckon that’s bullshit.”

    Yobbo, knowingly:

    “Probably because you are old.

    Anyway, I know about stuff. Our age of consent laws remain in the dark ages – I know that too because, as you can see, I am primitive, uneducated, ignorant, crude and courageously abusive.”

    Splatcrobat:

    “Come on yobbo what 18 year old wouldn’t admit he first had sex at 14,15, etc”

    Too late, he’s raced off elsewhere to boast to his marbles playing mates about how young he was when he sucked on his first durry, and to trade some of his aggies for a shooter or two.

    This internet thing is soooo easy.

  131. thefrollickingmole says:

    memoryvault

    I saw that story and thouth to myself ‘what are the odds of this particular case attracting punblicity from their ABC just as the grooming package is being rolled out”.

    Lets face it, the whole program is a bait and switch.
    The stated objective is anti bullying.
    The actual package is GLBT normalization.
    Now I dont have a huge problem with a bit of “people are strange” education, but it should be age appropriate, at the lower ages this is being pitched at, its probably not.
    My main beef is the blatant lying used to smuggle the package in, if you are going to run classes on QUERTY people then state that as the objective, instead of making it 90% of the thrust of an anti-bullying campaign.

    Its typical lefty lying behavior.

  132. Struth says:

    Fucking morons do have the freedom to comment.
    As long as they read too.
    If anyone believes for a second that this has to do with protecting the children, you are a fucking goose.
    A naive fucking goose.
    This Safe schools bullshit is pure and unadulterated cultural Marxism 1o1.
    Do you not note, that it is not so much about homosexuality, as transgender?
    That . Oooooooooooooo1 percent of the population that requires such a huge indoctrination of the kiddies so they are feeling good about dressing as a woman?
    This is about killing off white men, and making them as feminine as possible.
    It’s about encouraging attention seeking boys to opt for this as a way of being special.
    It’s about boys being girls and girls being boys, and in the process wiping away many factors of family and culture that can save the west.
    It is not so much about homosexuality, as looking at the ancient Greeks, they still fought.
    It Is about creating submission.

  133. Struth says:

    Lesbian feminazis are no friends of Gay men, and vice versa.
    See, homosexual men love men.
    Left wing feminazis hate them.

  134. whirrwhirr says:

    Seems like some of the folks here should actually read the Safe Schools curriculum before they comment anymore and let their bigoted imaginations run wild, and perhaps not listen so much to Doughboy and Corgi

  135. . says:

    whirrwhirr

    What have I said is flawed?

  136. whirrwhirr says:

    Dot: wasn’t referring to you

  137. thefrollickingmole says:

    whirrwhirr

    I have, i linked to a lot of the resources on the open thread 3 or so days ago, along with examples of some of the teaching material. in one of them it explicitly states it may be best NOT to inform the parents of their childs sexual orientation/transgenderism etc.

    Why does a course on normalizing differing types of sexuality require smuggling into schools in the guise of ‘anti-bullying”?

    If you start with a lie why should anybody believe the people involved are acting with good intentions.

  138. Yon Toad says:

    Too many words with more that one syllable for the average politician?

  139. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From whirrwhirr at 11:14 am:

    “Seems like some of the folks here should actually read the Safe Schools curriculum before they comment anymore and let their bigoted imaginations run wild, and perhaps not listen so much to Doughboy and Corgi”

    The only wild running imaginations are those of the kiddie fibber set, licking their lips at all that fresh meat they have so easily accessed with the imprimatur of our glorious Stumbull government, formed by the LNP Branch of the ALP.

    Lord knows who “Doughboy and Corgi” are. Are you 12 years old?

  140. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole: i missed that link, can you repost

  141. Notafan says:

    Sheltered life? You have no idea.

    We already have sex education. Even back when I went to school in the 70s.

    What we didn’t have was pan sexuals telling everyone that all sex all the time was all good.

    My point was that pressuring young girls ( or anyone) for sex is a form of bullying that isn’t being addressed and will get worse consequence of a bizarre all sex all the time agenda. Just because it’s another 14 year doing the hassling rather than a 24 year old doesn’t make it right.

    Oh and some of my friends were sexually active at the age of 14. In reality that meant the word was out and everyone who thought they were entitled expected some action. On one occasion when a close friend said the answer was no a knife was produced. No point in reporting that, because who would believe her? Even as 14 year olds, we knew it.

    My point is the discussion about when and how and who with is a discussion that should take place in the family home not with an agent of the nanny state. Sex education in terms of biology can continue to be taught at school. If parents want to hand off more of their responsibilities to the state then they should be doing it knowingly, not have it just taken in an underhanded manner by pretending a programme is about bullying. But let nanny Ward take over. Because gay. Because suicide. It’s okay when you think the reason is a good one.

    Children need to be protected not exploited for an agenda.

  142. whirrwhirr says:

    Doughboy and Corgi = George Christensen and Cory Bernardi. I thought that such nicknames were common knowledge. Peanut Head seems to get thrown around here alot, just joining in

  143. classical_hero says:

    We are constantly told that the suicide rate but the trouble with that is that Denmark is one of the most tolerant places for homosexuals and yet the suicide rate of homosexuals is one of the highest in the world. This statistic was being quoted so much by Christian groups that they don’t bother reporting the stat anymore, lest the truth gets revealed. Homosexuality isn’t something we should be promoting and there is more to the suicide rate than “bullying” We most definitely shouldn’t be promoting transgender issues either since they are 20 time more likely to commit suicide even if they have surgery. To me it seems like both are mental problems that we should be looking at the underlying reasons why that happens, not promoting it like we are seeing now.

  144. . says:

    I don’t know how you can “promote” homosexuality…

    Anyway, Denmark was apparently the happiest country in the world, according to the socialist nutters who wrote the early, dishonest “happiness literature”.

    Turns out their unhappy kin might just voluntarily take themselves off the census rolls.

  145. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From classical_hero at 11:50 am:

    “We are constantly told that the suicide rate … of homosexuals is one of the highest in the world. This statistic was being quoted so much by Christian groups that they don’t bother reporting the stat anymore, lest the truth gets revealed. Homosexuality isn’t something we should be promoting”

    I think it is most amusing – the bundles of sticks want to be left alone but at the same time they threaten suicide (a valuable public service) if society ignores them.

  146. Struth says:

    Whirr whirr.
    You tell me who wrote it and then come back here and apologise.

  147. A Lurker says:

    I feel sick after reading all the homophobic crap. It’s the same when the topic is indigenous disadvantage, all the vile racist trolls come out of their holes. Australia is one of the most intolerant countries that like to call themselves democracies.

    Harden up. If you think Australia is bad then move somewhere where being homosexual means getting dangled from cranes or tossed off tall buildings.

    Hang on, didn’t you mean ‘democratic’ – oh right, like socially progressive Europe, which is currently being overrun by hundreds of thousands of men who like dangling homosexuals from cranes or tossing them off tall buildings.

    Seems to me that in the great scheme of things, Australia is pretty tolerant. However if cultural Marxists keep pushing pushing pushing their ideology into the faces of ordinary Aussies, then that tolerance is going to pretty soon wear thin, and any community good will, will drain away quicker than water down a S-bend.

  148. Notafan says:

    If you want to see real racism check out how the Saudis treat Ethiopians ( also muslims)

    It’s bizarre that we have hundreds of thousands of non Europeans migrating here every year just to endure our racism.

    Btw everyone is ‘racist whatever that is supposed to imply.

  149. Struth says:

    Meanwhile, the kids can’t spell transgender.

  150. thefrollickingmole says:

    Site gateway
    http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/

    Now heres the resources page, you tell me what % of them arent aimed at QUERTY people
    http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/resources

    Heres a hint, pretty well 27 out of 27.

    Thats not an anti-bullying campaign aimed at ‘all kids”, thats propaganda and mainstreaming one agenda.

  151. memoryvault says:

    Thanks for the links, Frollicking Mole.

    Does anyone know how to capture an entire website?

    I have the distinct feeling the Safe Schools Coalition site will be “disappeared” well before the next election, and I’d like to be able to reproduce it. I’ll capture and store it, if it is possible to do so more or less automatically. I just need to know how.

  152. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole: can you read? or do you just have selective comprehension of the words ‘possible’ ‘may’ and the entire first and second sentences

  153. thefrollickingmole says:

    whirrwhirr

    So you are comfortable with non relatives deciding what a minor may do (which will have life long consequences) as long as the stick in a “may” figleaf?

    Pathetic defense.
    This will be aimed squarely at “non-ally” parents who teachers think wont be supportive of little Sue/Johnnys life trajectory.

    “Oh they are Christians, so we arranged for little Sue/Johnnys access to hormone blockers because they might not approve”.

  154. Mayan says:

    thefrollickingmole; these days, it’s more likely that they’ll use the internet to buy hormones &c.

  155. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole: i’m comfortable with a student themselves making decisions for themselves if there is an assessment that they are a mature minor and there isn’t the parental support

  156. thefrollickingmole says:

    whirrwhirr

    And who will be liable is anything goes wrong?
    Never mind the stolen generations, next up will be the stolen genitalias.

    And use the word, minor, not student, its more honest. Any age you think this should cut in at or is it all up to the QWERTY supporting teachers?

  157. Some History says:

    Does anyone know how to capture an entire website?

    I don’t know about an entire website at once, but the “Wayback Machine” can be used to make an archive copy of individual web pages at a point(s) in time so that even if a website is removed, an archived copy can still be referenced:
    https://archive.org/web/

  158. Some History says:

    I’ve already made copies of the two links provided by thefrollickingmole

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160229021009/http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160229021242/http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/resources

    You can make copies of other pages and save the links in your records.

  159. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole: your concerns are addressed under the sentence “a decision to proceed
    should be made based on the school’s duty of care”

  160. thefrollickingmole says:

    whirrwhirr

    So no-one will be liable then it will be the “school”.

    Pardon me for not feeling this is an entity i would want making surgical/medical decisions about a relative of mine.

    And what age?

  161. memoryvault says:

    Thanks guys. Site is currently being mirrored.
    More details on the next thread.

  162. Splatacrobat says:

    “a decision to proceed
    should be made based on the school’s duty of care”

    So does a school’s duty of care extend to “proceeding” with Ritalin if a student requires calming down?

  163. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole: in Australia you have to be at least 18 to have Gender Transition Surgery. Hormone Replacement Therapy is is provided in consultation with a range of professionals; GP’s, psychiatrists etc. Schools only play a small part in the process

  164. thefrollickingmole says:

    whirrwhirr

    And the reason to exclude all family is???

    And agin, age you think these minors should be considered right for this?

  165. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole

    And the reason to exclude all family is???

    “If a student does not have family or carer support for the process”

    And agin, age you think these minors should be considered right for this?

    not really a judgement I can make. That is an assessment to be made by those professionals I mentioned

  166. Driftforge says:

    This is another of those times I think the Russians have got it right. Allow sexual deviants their thing within given bounds, but oppress severely any advertisement of the fact or promotion of that culture.

    With extreme prejudice when it involves children.

  167. thefrollickingmole says:

    Driftforge

    You mean pre 1960’s handling of things in the West?

    I agree.

    “If a student does not have family or carer support for the process”
    I cant wait for them to roll this out in lakemba, or canarvon for that matter.

    I wonder just how many years back you have to go to hear “oh this will never be taught in schools, you are just making a false slippery slope argument’..?

    Back to my main point, this is a homosexual agenda masquerading as anti bullying. It is based on a lie and should be treated with disdain.

  168. dover_beach says:

    It’s not simply a homosexual agenda, it’s also a feminist agenda, and both are concerned with destroying the categories of sex and gender as natural categories by making them appear conventional.

  169. DrBeauGan says:

    . Why is teaching kids about hetro sex ok, but not other forms of sex?

    Because we’re here, we’re hetero. Get used to it.

    Great argument, huh?

  170. whirrwhirr says:

    thefrollickingmole: not a slippery slope, but a mountain to climb. Imagine years into the future when your fears will be obsolete, and this current debate will seem ridiculous.

  171. Struth says:

    It’s cultural Marxism getting at our kids.
    Course written by a feminist Marxist.
    Hello, you hoo……….
    The bird who wrote this is a fucking disgusting anti western , man hating , traitorous, piece of shit.
    To let these peope near your kids, knowing what their agenda is , is insane.
    Remember the wording.
    Carer or parental support FOR THE PROCESS?
    If the parents don’t agree…….stiff shit.

    My son got through, and now I repeat.

    It all starts in the schools.
    Drag this scum , that are taxpayer funded child abusers out of their lairs kicking and screaming as they will.
    If you have kids in school and you are reading this, get fucking interested in what is going on in your kids schools.

  172. Struth says:

    It’s not really a whirr whirr, it’s more of a putt putt.

  173. Struth says:

    There is sex, and then there is mutual forms of gratification.
    All mammals have sex to reproduce.
    Sticking your dick anywhere it fits and pumping away is not sex, no matter how much fun you’re having.

    Sex education 101.

  174. DrBeauGan says:

    There seems to be an unstated premiss in the ‘anti-bullying’ campaign, viz that there is a natural loathing of deviance that has to be suppressed by social coercion. Maybe there is indeed such a natural loathing. In which case maybe the deviants themselves are subject to it. This would account for the high suicide rates. I note that there is also a high suicide rate among those with very high IQ scores.

    It makes a certain amount of biological sense to off the deviants or have them off themselves.

    Note that I am not in favour of encouraging such an urge. I might be one of those offed. Me for lots of variety in the world.

  175. Yobbo says:

    More than 95% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 13.

    More than 13% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 19.

    More than 66.6% of teenagers in Australia have had sex before age 11¼.

    Lee Harvey Oswald shot from a book repository and ran to a theatre, John Wilkes Booth shot from a theatre and scarpered to a book repository.

    I just made most of that up.

    I didn’t. I linked to a medical study to back up my figures. You ignored it and dribbled shit.

  176. Yobbo says:

    Sticking your dick anywhere it fits and pumping away is not sex, no matter how much fun you’re having.

    Sex education 101.

    You are arguably correct. But the prudes in this thread would object to your version of sex ed anyway on the grounds that children should not touch their dicks at all because Jesus. And the best way to prevent kids touching their dicks is to pretend their dicks don’t exist.

    Fucking lol.

  177. memoryvault says:

    But the prudes in this thread would object to your version of sex ed anyway on the grounds that children should not touch their dicks at all because Jesus.

    Sorry, I must have missed it, Yobbo. Who objected to sex ed, and when?

  178. ella says:

    “You are arguably correct. But the prudes in this thread would object to your version of sex ed anyway on the grounds that children should not touch their dicks at all because Jesus. And the best way to prevent kids touching their dicks is to pretend their dicks don’t exist.

    Fucking lol.”

    Step 1. Assemble a Strawman Argument using distortion, misrepresentation and simplification.

    Step 2. Knock it down.

    Step 3. Claim Victory.

    LOL

  179. Yobbo says:

    Sorry, I must have missed it, Yobbo. Who objected to sex ed, and when?

    Half the people in this thread, in the preceeding comments. Objected to sex ed for kids younger than 16.

  180. ella says:

    “Half the people in this thread, in the preceeding comments. Objected to sex ed for kids younger than 16.”

    Your point is valid that if we have sex education in the schools then it has to be younger than 16. For example, young girls mature earlier than in the past i.e menstruation.

  181. memoryvault says:

    Objected to sex ed for kids younger than 16.

    More BS Yobbo, they objected to sex ed beyond the biological – how we reproduce, stuff. The difference between boys and girls and so on. THAT is sex ed, and for the most part it was supported, not condemned. What people objected to was its expansion into “how-to” instructions on how to compact your best boy’s turds while your other best boy sucks his dick. Big difference.

  182. Sticking your dick anywhere it fits and pumping away is not sex, no matter how much fun you’re having.

    Clearly this culture enhancer didn’t have the luxury of this wisdom

  183. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From Yobbo at 6:57 pm:

    “…
    I just made most of that up.

    I didn’t. I linked to a medical study to back up my figures. You ignored it and dribbled shit.”

    and at 7:49 pm:

    ” …

    Half the people in this thread, in the preceeding comments. Objected to sex ed for kids younger than 16.”

    You are barely. Literate yet you. Expect. Your. Opinion to be heard and. Considered here? Stagger back to the pub you drongo.

  184. Notafan says:

    I don’t know where the sex education at 16 came from.
    I suggested that the facts of life should be taught by parents at around age 6, or earlier if asked.

    That is six, 6.

    Then more information, as required, on a continum, as your children mature.

  185. twostix says:

    Yobbo’s a middle aged white man from bumfuck WA who now lives in Thailand and hangs around Thai trannies and prostitutes and still goes clubbing like a near forty year old sad sack.

    Definitely the person the average parent should be listening to when it comes to sex and their children.

    Oh, and in case anybody is wonder he’s also a total “libertarian”. The government must educate your children on anal fisting and trannies, the cool kid former LDP candidate says.

  186. twostix says:

    The only true liberatarian position is that government educators must teach your children masturbating techniques.

    Only if you agree with that first principle, may you one day become an Australian “Libertarian”.

  187. twostix says:

    How did humanity survive before 1985 when government educators began “teaching” children about how to have sex I ask?

    You stupid Jesus bigots!

    Am I cool enough to join the LDP yet??

  188. twostix says:

    Will the government child sexologists carefully explain to children that according to Science(Tm) nearly 100% of HIV cases in the west are caused by gay men engaging in anal sex with one another?

  189. Yobbo says:

    More BS Yobbo, they objected to sex ed beyond the biological – how we reproduce, stuff. The difference between boys and girls and so on. THAT is sex ed, and for the most part it was supported, not condemned. What people objected to was its expansion into “how-to” instructions on how to compact your best boy’s turds while your other best boy sucks his dick. Big difference.

    No, MV. They objected on the basis of age.

  190. Yobbo says:

    Yobbo’s a middle aged white man from bumfuck WA who now lives in Thailand and hangs around Thai trannies and prostitutes and still goes clubbing like a near forty year old sad sack.

    Definitely the person the average parent should be listening to when it comes to sex and their children.

    Yeah, they should definitely instead listen to devout Christians who’ve only ever fucked their own wives, and then only in missionary position.

    Do you even run your own arguments through your dim little brain before shitting them into cyberspace?

  191. Yobbo says:

    Will the government child sexologists carefully explain to children that according to Science(Tm) nearly 100% of HIV cases in the west are caused by gay men engaging in anal sex with one another?

    Why wouldn’t they? It’s a scientific fact.

    But yet again, another example of a conservative obsessed with anal sex, despite it having little at all to do with the topic at hand.

  192. Yobbo says:

    Oh, and in case anybody is wonder he’s also a total “libertarian”. The government must educate your children on anal fisting and trannies, the cool kid former LDP candidate says.

    I’d be happy for people to educate their own kids, twostix. But we both know that the kind of prudes who object to sex education won’t ever do that.

  193. Gab says:

    And on a final note,

    Safe Schools Coalition ­Vic­toria co-founder Roz Ward has also conceded the Safe Schools Coalition program is part of a broader Marxist strategy to change society.

    Nooo, really? I never would have guessed. So well done to all those defending this monstrous and disgusting program being foisted on impressionable young minds. Good for you for getting beind this “anti-bulling” program. You’ve been duped like the suckers that you are.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/education/safe-schools-activist-roz-ward-raises-red-flag/news-story/42208731b0e4705aa0d2e6aaa8584e3e

  194. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From twostix at 3:28 am:

    “Yobbo’s a middle aged white man from bumfuck WA who now lives in Thailand and hangs around Thai trannies and prostitutes and still goes clubbing like a near forty year old sad sack.

    Definitely the person the average parent should be listening to when it comes to sex and their children.

    Oh, and in case anybody is wonder he’s also a total “libertarian”. The government must educate your children on anal fisting and trannies, the cool kid former LDP candidate says.”

    Well now, that is interesting. A platinum member with a real interest in the subject matter and here was I believing he was merely an ordinary level grub.

  195. . says:

    Really?

    twostrix is a grub and a troll.

  196. Gab says:

    Twostix, you’re over the target and copping heavy flak. Well done.

  197. . says:

    Look I don’t like twostix or Yobbo being spiteful like this but the real issue is public education.

    Private/charter schools or “learning webs” would have sex ed, but they wouldn’t be gamed by industry lobbys.

    The fact of the matter is the Federal Government has no real power to do this but no one can be arsed challenging it.

    I know Yobbo is being a bit harsh but twostix never misses a chance to bash the LDP. That is pure and simple trolling or nuisance. It is obsessive as well.

  198. Gab says:

    I don’t think there should be any sex education in schools.

    Sinclair is the only rational Libertarian here.

  199. . says:

    Define “sex ed”.

    Truth be told none of it is necessary. Internet?

    If parents want science teachers or doctors coming in and teaching about pregnancy and venereal diseases, then I don’t see the harm, even in a state school.

  200. Gab says:

    That Ward filth declared the Marxist agenda, that is, the real agenda, behind this “Safe” Schools program and you’re fine with that, Dot. That’s what you’re defending. I’m not at all surprised.

  201. A Lurker says:

    I don’t think there should be any sex education in schools.

    This is how I would address it:

    Primary School (Year 6):
    Human biology 1.01
    What are the functions of the various bones and organs of the human body?

    Secondary School (Year 10):
    Human biology 1.02
    The consequences of sexual activities – STD and pregnancy,
    with an ‘elective’ of ‘Mothercare’ for girls intending to start a family early.

  202. Struth says:

    I resent Yobbo’s conclusion that we only root our wives missionary position because we are christians.
    But , by the way, what religion allows doggy style, as I’m rather partial to that?
    I can still watch the Tele and take my blood pressure at the same time.

    Seriously, nothing wrong with a bit of sex education.

    This is how babies are made stuff.
    Everything else is not sex education.
    Obviously it then gets infiltrated by the left and used to fuck us.
    Being fucked is not sex education.
    It is being fucked.

  203. . says:

    Gab
    #1961851, posted on March 1, 2016 at 10:11 am
    That Ward filth declared the Marxist agenda, that is, the real agenda, behind this “Safe” Schools program and you’re fine with that, Dot. That’s what you’re defending. I’m not at all surprised.

    Um actually I swore my head off here or elsewhere to that absurd barrow pushing.

    You’re not surprised Gab, you’re confused.

  204. Gab says:

    In your own words, Dot: “you are willing to accept socialism”.

  205. . says:

    To wit:

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2016/02/29/hear-her-speak/comment-page-1/#comment-1960473

    .
    #1960473, posted on February 29, 2016 at 10:59 am
    I was the person who set up Safe Schools … in Victoria … To smooth the operation of capitalism the ruling class has benefited, and continues to benefit, from oppressing our bodies, our relationships, sexuality and gender identities alongside sexism, ­homophobia and transphobia.

    Fuck me dead, it is about “capitalism”…

    Gays are the people in the West who have benefitted from capitalism the most. It allowed them to be judged as entrepreneurs, not on sexual orientation.

    What gays need is more capitalism and freedom, not being told what to say or think.

    How exactly would gay MEN be hurt by “da patriarchy”? They form their own patriarchies.

    An apology is probably in order from you Gab (of course, I’m not surprised at all) but I’m implacably gracious.

  206. . says:

    Gab
    #1961898, posted on March 1, 2016 at 10:51 am
    In your own words, Dot: “you are willing to accept socialism”

    Clearly not. Get busy. Those apologies will be flowing like a paper river.

  207. . says:

    I identify as umbrageous.

  208. Gab says:

    I missed the bit where you said sex education of children should not be farmed out to the state, Dot.

  209. dover_beach says:

    This is how I would address it

    I was thinking about this earlier. If you have sex education it can’t simply treat sex as if it were nothing more than a mechanical activity. It is obviously related to reproduction but it also has other significant aspects to it, in human beings, both psychological and social, that can’t be set aside without treating sex in a shallow and perfunctory manner. Given this, you cannot have sex education in public schools in a neutral manner. The only way to avoid it at least in public schools is to avoid it entirely; whereas private schools will treat in a manner they and the student’s parents see fitting and aligns with their view of the good.

  210. . says:

    What about science? Hence why I said “define sex ed”. What is wrong about purely teaching about pregnancy, childbirth or STIs?

    It should be full and frank. Yes anal sex is more risky. Yes you can get STIs from oral sex but the risk is lower (but still there). etc.

    I don’t want any state involvement in education but that doesn’t mean as long as it remains, I’m going to reject everything on principle?

    Science is legitimate, state or no state. Child protection? Hard to attack, but it seems like a laundry list of crap the kids are taught instead of the practical and academic core. There’s not much proof it does anything. Mandatory reporting is fraught with false accusations (a lot against teachers). Like the WWCC and blue card – the benefits are hard to put forward. Anti bullying? Like I said before, easier if kids were afforded the right to self defence.

    The internet really makes a lot of this irrelevant.

    The Safe Schools people are Marxists who are gaming the grants system for a good income, far above “according to ability or needs”. That’s what it comes down to.

    Whatever the merits of the arguments are, the core issue is always state control of education. Some people may not want their children taught the benefits of vaccination for example. I think that ought to be their choice but (IMO thankfully) the internet means that is in the long run, most likely, irrelevant.

  211. Gab says:

    Whatever happened to “keep government out of our bedrooms”?

    Biology is taught in schools, as it should be.

    Sex education, sexual positions, gender redefined should be taught by parents not contracted out to schools.

  212. . says:

    It is obviously related to reproduction but it also has other significant aspects to it, in human beings, both psychological and social, that can’t be set aside without treating sex in a shallow and perfunctory manner.

    I don’t think children are knowledgeable enough to treat every subject in the same holistic manner. Psychology is a high level discipline which still hasn’t shaken off some dubious foundations it had. Most children don’t have jobs and so can’t relate to “how much disease X costs the taxpayer”. I’d also worry about the concept being applied in ag. science for example – then segueing into why farming should be shut down for “environmental reasons”.

  213. . says:

    I largely agree Gab, but define “sex ed”.

    The reason why government should get out of education in this instance is because science is politicised.

  214. candy says:

    Sex ed just about essential. Kids aren’t going to get that info about pregnancy prevention, STDs, sexual development of the body etc in a straightforward manner anywhere else. You can bet parents are very happy to hand over that bit of education to the school.

    There’s a role for anti-bullying programs too, and I think high school kids around 15 or so probably know they are gay etc and may get some bullying. The whole bullying thing should be covered anyway. Safe Schools though is starting to sound it’s run by a zealot of the left. You’d wonder how it got started under the Liberals in the first place.

  215. ian3029 says:

    You’d wonder how it got started under the Liberals in the first place.

    The Wong chap claimed in the Senate that it was a Labor initiative.

  216. dover_beach says:

    I don’t think children are knowledgeable enough to treat every subject in the same holistic manner. Psychology is a high level discipline which still hasn’t shaken off some dubious foundations it had. Most children don’t have jobs and so can’t relate to “how much disease X costs the taxpayer”.

    I wasn’t suggesting we treat it in an academic manner. No, I was suggesting that sex has aspects to it that are not only biological; the reproductive aspect has social implications relating to marriage and family. The pleasure that accrues from sex has psychological implications, and so on. Sex education needs to take this into account.

  217. memoryvault says:

    I’ve just posted a link to a list of all the schools involved in this, on the Open Thread.

  218. ella says:

    “What about science?”

    I believe our kids – maybe year 11 or 12 – should be given a lesson on how to recognise dodgy science.

    Lesson no 1: The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.

    Almost certainly wrong if it conflicts with what is already known.

    The anti-science of the gender theorists.

  219. dover_beach says:

    What about science? Hence why I said “define sex ed”. What is wrong about purely teaching about pregnancy, childbirth or STIs?

    It should be full and frank. Yes anal sex is more risky. Yes you can get STIs from oral sex but the risk is lower (but still there). etc.

    I don’t see any science, what I see is an attempt at a ‘value-free’ sex education.

  220. Gab says:

    Yes anal sex is more risky.

    How strange some people think it’s perfectly reasonable for 10 and 11 year-olds to be taught anal sex in school as deemed by the government.

    Socialism at its finest.

  221. Gab says:

    Are 11 year-olds at school going to be introduced to concepts such a felching and rimming next? How about S&M? Golden showers, fisting? Where does it stop?

  222. memoryvault says:

    Are 11 year-olds at school going to be introduced to concepts such a felching and rimming next?

    Felching can be hazardous to your health, Gab.

  223. Peter Johnson says:

    As a chimpanzee I don’t see anything wrong with this . . . after all you lot were descended from us so get real and stop moaning endlessly!

    However if you want this type of ‘marketing’ changed get a variety of leaders to actually unify and agree that they will do something constructive to effectively lobby politicians, as well as school principals and PTA’s members as the proud homosexuals/lesbians et al have successfully done. Use your human brains!

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