Terry Barnes: Life is short but smokers’ lives are shorter. Legalise vaping now.

The much-anticipated House of Representatives committee report on e-cigarettes and personal vaporisers – in other words, vaping – was tabled on Wednesday.

Very predictably, the majority of MPs came down in favour of the status quo: we don’t know the long-term risks of vaping with nicotine; it’s better to crack down on it now and severely restrict or suppress it by precautionary regulation, and the regulatory status quo is the correct approach.  At 5-3, however, it wasn’t an overwhelming majority.

But three Liberal MPs – chairman, former NSW Liberal president and key Turnbull supporter Trent Zimmerman, high-profile Tim Wilson and medical doctor Andrew Laming, broke from the pack to dissent. 

That’s a pretty influential trio, and a committee chairman standing up in the House to reject his own committee’s findings was a rare occurrence indeed.

In responding to Zimmerman, deputy chairman and majority leader, Labor’s Steve Georganas, said ‘I would have preferred…to have nicotine e-cigarettes evaluated by independent health experts and not politicians. I don’t think we’re in a position to make scientific judgments on what is harmful and what isn’t’ – and then declared what he said was the ‘conclusive evidence’ on nicotine and tobacco.  That essentially was the majority position: don’t rock the public health establishment’s boat.  They know best.

Overall it’s a measured and carefully-written majority report, impossible for pro-vaping advocates to dismiss it out of hand.  Nevertheless, it’s patently obvious the Liberal and Labor MPs in the majority were reluctant to question the Big Brother intellectual dictatorship of some Australian tobacco control opinion leaders and most public health organisations. Assertions and statements made by Australian public health and tobacco control pooh-bahs were accepted as fact in the report, while Australian and overseas pro-vaping expert views, and favourable regulatory practices in Britain and elsewhere, were given a thorough working over.  A reverse cultural cringe if ever there was one.

That nasty ad hominem attacks made in evidence by Australian public health pooh-bahs, impugning the integrity of authors of authoritative UK analyses positive about vaping – including an expert working group of the very Royal College of Physicians that first blew the whistle on the link between smoking and lung cancer back in 1962 – were repeated needlessly in a report protected by parliamentary privilege was particularly unnecessary and disgraceful.

On the other hand, if I had a quid for every time the majority report approvingly, even lovingly, cites Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman and his colleagues, my bank manager would be very happy. 

But in truth, the majority report’s recommendations aren’t so awful.  The principal recommendation of a comprehensive, National Health and Medical Research Council-supervised independent expert review of the benefits and risks of nicotine vaping could be effective if (and it’s a big if), the expert reviewers truly are independent, and any review committee has a balance of experts, adequate time and budget and, above all, is impartial. Fat chance of that happening in Australia, one must think.

Indeed, the intellectual thuggery and intimidation practised by various tobacco control Torquemadas seems to have had its effect No heresy has been spoken by the majority. And for Liberal MPs in that group, Health minister Greg Hunt passionately declaring mid-inquiry that nicotine vaping would never be legalised ‘on my watch’  also would have weighed heavily with them: one MP signed the majority report without actually having attended any hearings or participating actively in the inquiry, and another almost as little.

Hunt is entitled to his ministerial view, but his so unequivocally declaring the Government’s hand makes the dissents by Zimmerman, Wilson and Laming even more impressive and remarkable than their simply sticking it to an overbearing public health establishment. Openly contradicting a Cabinet minister isn’t a great career move for ambitious backbenchers capable of higher things.  But Zimmerman and Wilson, in particular, considered the personal career risks, were active and enthusiastic in the inquiry, and at took the trouble to turn up at committee hearings – unlike some of their colleagues.  What’s more, they were prepared to consider evidence and expert opinion for as well as against nicotine and vaping, and make on-balance rather than politically correct or convenient conclusions.

That three influential Liberals have stood up for liberalisation, effectively in defiance of the party whip, is very significant. Thanks to them, vaping prohibitionists have failed to slam shut the reform door.  Instead, the anti-vaping majority outcome is like the winner in a close party room leadership challenge: the result encouraging the losers to persevere because it is not decisive enough to put this issue away indefinitely.  After Wednesday, tobacco harm reduction reform is still on the national policy agenda.

All three dissenting Liberals can be proud of putting their values and principles above personal ambition.  And when it comes to the clearest, no-nonsense parliamentary report on record, Andrew Laming’s two-sentence dissent says it all:

 Life is short and smokers’ lives are shorter. Legalise vaping now.

Terry Barnes is policy consultant and fellow of the UK Institute of Economic Affairs, with a special interest in nanny state regulation. This op-ed first appeared in The Spectator

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51 Responses to Terry Barnes: Life is short but smokers’ lives are shorter. Legalise vaping now.

  1. Pingback: On the Precautionary Principle | Dylan Kissane

  2. None

    As usual Terry Barnes is demented. Influential Trio? Are you freaking kidding me? Three men who’ve never had a real job in their lives, one a traitor? Hello Tim. These three are not influential they are what is known in the business as antf***ers.
    As an ex smoker let me tell you something. And this comes with the backing of people who are medical experts in addiction. Nicotine is addictive full stop. The tiniest bit of nicotine is addictive. No amount of nicotine is good for you. The good news is that while nicotine is very addictive its withdrawal symptoms are very very mild and not dangerous so you can all quit today if you wanted to. And believe you me everyone has the willpower to quit because everyone who smokes had the will power to pick up a second cigarette after the first and you need a lot of willpower to pick up a second cigarette because the first cigarette always tastes like licking the bottom in an ashtray.
    Besides if you want to tell me that vaping is going to save lives you’re telling me that nicotine is bad for you. Then f****** well ban nicotine. And seriously this has got nothing to do with liberalisation it’s got everything to do with finding another f****** tax income stream for the government. And these 3 MPS getting themselves some easy extra income for committee work . Tust this woeful trio? Never.

  3. None

    Oh yeah and these three antf****** and demented Terry Barnes as well care so much about smokers that they wpuld all vote to euthanize them in a minute. Bunch of sanctimonious tossers.

  4. None

    Oh by tbe way. Consider the extemt of Laming’s “medical experience” https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=E0H
    Is he even still qualified to practice? Zimmerman Wilson and Laming
    Bunch of tax hoovering antf**kers.

  5. Shy Ted

    And thus a lucrative black market was born.

  6. None

    Sex slavery is a lucrative black market as well Ted.Shall we legalise that l?

  7. None

    Happy Easter to all Cats. And happy Passover to our Jewish friends.

  8. Tezza

    Jeez, None, you sound very stressed for a person who has conquered their addiction through pure willpower.

    Try re-reading your vulgarisms and ad hominems, and put yourself in the position of an open-minded reader trying to establish what the Committee was arguing about.

    Would you find yourself convincing, or write yourself off as a bad-tempered vulgarian?

    Happy Easter

  9. None

    Couldn’t care less Tezza if you want to think me a vulgarian or a Bulgarian – I’m trying to teach this software to print swear words. But these three men are tossers and time wasters. As I pointed out, if vaping is meant to save smokers’ lives that means smoking is bad. How is imbibing nicotine in another way any better Why not f****** ban nicotine then?

  10. mareeS

    I don’t smoke, neither does the spouse, but we have two offspring who do.

    The taxes and offensive packaging haven’t put them off because they make rollies from chop-chop, the fastest growing illicit trade at present.

    We don’t approve, but the political class has made this trade a goer among young people via the law of unintended consequences.

  11. None

    Agree Maree. Even ice is now cheaper than tailor mades and then they wonder ehy half the population is drug addled.

  12. And these 3 MPS getting themselves some easy extra income for committee work

    The committee members who hardly ever attended must be laughing all the way to the bank.

    All we need is one investigative journalist or one brave politician to “out” these tax moochers and hopefully shame them into an act of contrition.

  13. Tel

    We don’t approve, but the political class has made this trade a goer among young people via the law of unintended consequences.

    Don’t be too quick to judge. The networking experience trading chop chop will become very valuable once Australia goes full Stalinist and you need your local blatnoy simply to survive.

  14. Barry 1963

    I don’t like the smell of vape vapour. Happy for people to vape, just not near me.

  15. Entropy

    People vaping like like dickhead tryhards. At best it would be a way for the hopelessly addicted to slowly phase out their addiction. Otherwise it’s lame. A trivial side issue at best.

    I am much more shitty though about the fact these snouters get paid extra to attend a committee. What other job on the planet does that?

    Scum. Total leeching scum.

  16. Senile Old Guy

    None: The tiniest bit of nicotine is addictive.

    BS. For some. I smoked cigarettes and they did nothing. I smoked several packs and then stopped.

  17. None
    #2674007, posted on March 30, 2018 at 9:00 am

    Couldn’t care less Tezza if you want to think me a vulgarian or a Bulgarian – I’m trying to teach this software to print swear words. But these three men are tossers and time wasters. As I pointed out, if vaping is meant to save smokers’ lives that means smoking is bad. How is imbibing nicotine in another way any better Why not f****** ban nicotine then?

    I’ll take my lead from your first tirade and respond in kind.

    First, I smoked for over 40 years. Tried to give up at various times with no success.
    I tried vaping almost 2 years ago (end of May 2016). I posted comments about it here at the cat.
    Since my first vape, I haven’t touched a single cigarette…NOT ONE.
    I started with 12 mg/ml of nicotine. Gradually cut it down to 3 mg/ml
    Within 2 weeks of quitting, my breathing, stamina and general health improved.
    I still vape to this day. Sometimes I vape at 3 mg/ml, sometimes I increase it to 6 mg/ml.

    Now to your ill informed, factually wrong spew.
    It’s NOT the nicotine that harms smokers, it’s the myriad other poisons and particulates.
    Nicotine is an addictive stimulant. Nicotine gets you hooked, the other stuff harms.
    With vaping, you immediately cut out the harmful stuff, and as millions have done, you gradually cut down the level of nicotine to whatever level you want, including zero.

    Before quitting, I got cravings within an hour and had trouble when in non smoking areas for longer periods. With vaping, I can go all day, two days and have even gone 5 days without craving.
    Vaping is, as I and millions of others have found, one of the best ways to quit harmful and very expensive tobacco.

    In order for me to acquire nicotine, I have to order from overseas (I get mine from New Zealand). Every state and the Commonwealth have laws and regulations that control how much I can import.
    More bureaucracy, more cost and my money and that of millions of others go overseas instead of staying here.

    Vaping could be, should be, and is in other countries a niche market new industry. Many people who otherwise don’t or can’t find work, built businesses from their homes blending and supplying vaping juices. Low cost start-up businesses. Stay at home moms are running vape juice businesses.
    Government regulations mean Australians are missing out on starting their own niche market businesses. Thousands could be employed, millions could be made from taxation.

    Politicians don’t give a crap about smokers. Those who oppose vaping are the ones who’ve been lobbied by the drug companies who produce subsidised quit products like Nicorettes (Glaxo, Johnson and Johnson).
    GUESS WHAT, those products are nicotine replacement therapies JUST LIKE VAPING. Yet one is subsidised to the tune of millions and pushed by governments and medical communities, and the very same people oppose the much less costly and more effective vaping.

    The thing about cigarettes is not just the nicotine, but the habit of picking something up after a meal or with a drink. Drugs like patches and gum don’t replicate that, Vaping does. That’s why vaping is more successful in helping people quit tobacco. You still get to “smoke” with a coffee or a beer.

    It’s plain to me that you have low information about vaping, yet you posted that stupid unhelpful tirade. That makes you a fuckwit of the first order. You’re the tosser, you’re the time waster. Do better.

    Happy Easter to all Cats.

  18. Dr Fred Lenin

    I am informed that the total ban on smoking has failed in mental institutions , the powers that be are turning a blind eye to smoking amongst the inmates ,too many staff were being assaulted by desparate inmates for stopping them from the only enjoyment they have , passive smoking is less dangerous than being attacked with a chair or something . Some staff have left after assaults and are difficult to replace . One psychiatrist=t was threatened untill a wise nurse got a couple of fags for the inmate , the inmate calmed down immediately , to the psychiatrists relief . Its typical of these self righteous twats not to think of the consequences of their dogma , It must be hell for everyone in jails with the stupid smoking ban ,what else have the inmates got ? Socialist thought is never thought through properly ,they wouldn’t know how .

  19. Senile Old Guy

    I have no problem with either smoking or vaping.

  20. Infidel Tiger

    I declare this a top ten nuttiest thread in Cat history.

    If you are anti-smoking you are suspect to begin with. If you are anti-vaping you are a certified lunatic.

    None, you seem to be having a very public mental breakdown and need immediate professional help.

  21. Dr Fred Lenin

    I gave up smoking 20 years ago, having smoked forv45 years or so , I did it cold turkey ,it was a bit hard but I’m a determined bastard . I take modest pride that around then I encouraged two fellow workers and one of them s wife to quit ,none of the three have smoked since . I encourage people not to smoke as I know the health improvements I and my mates had,and still have .whether it’s vapping ,patches ,hypnosis ,whatever , as long as you try , you will feel the benefit within days ,go for it .

  22. Tel

    GUESS WHAT, those products are nicotine replacement therapies JUST LIKE VAPING. Yet one is subsidised to the tune of millions and pushed by governments and medical communities, and the very same people oppose the much less costly and more effective vaping.

    It’s not the nicotine that bothers them, it’s who gets wealthy off the supply.

  23. tezza

    Just a minor point to help lower blood pressures. None asserts that the 3 Parliamentarians against whom he has taken a set got a salary loading for serving on a Parliamentary Committee. AFAIK, the Chair and Deputy Chair of committees get a loading, but the members don’t. As Chair, Zimmerman got paid extra; the other 2 didn’t. As always, happy to be corrected (preferably politely) if I’m wrong.
    http://remtribunal.gov.au/media/documents/2018/2017-determinations/2017-12-principal-determination-members-of-parliament-base-salary,-additional-salary-for-parliamentary-office-holders,-and-related-matters/2017-12-MPs-Base-Salary,-Additional-Salary-for-Parliamentary-Office-Holders,-Related-Matters-1.7.2017.pdf

    By the way, my understanding as a non-smoker, non-vaper of the experience of vaping derives mainly from the evidence reported by Matt Ridley which helped turn around the UK regulatory establishment to the harm minimisation of vaping. That all squares the with experience Baa Humbug reports.

  24. None

    No Infidel, I’m trying to teach this speech recognition software to type naughty words, not that I swear online as a rule, but because I object to speech Nazis controlling my speech through voice recognition software. At the same time, this obsession with vaping is vacuous and a waste of public time and money. It’s also very disingenuous because as many have pointed out, if they really cared about smokers then they’d ban nicotine. In fact as Tel said they don’t even care about nicotine.

    Barnes as a rule is a pleasant enough chap but his ideas are freaking Space Stations and I’m entitled to think that. And dear god the hyperbole . Barnes holding up Zimmerman, Laming and Wilson as if they were the Holy Trinity. No, Zimmerman, Laming and Wilson are tax hoovering arse clowns who have never had a real job and are totally clueless as to what the average punter thinks. Parliament is not there to indulge politicians personal perversions, pet projects and peeves. And to repeat myself yet again: Laminng is no doctor whose opinion is worth Jack. His own bio suggests he couldn’t even cut the mustard.

  25. None

    If anyone cares to know my yblood pressure is fine; in fact it’s probably better than most on this board. My committee payment line was a throw away but yes there are committee payments as you have found out for yourself. South Australian Parliament recently got rid of theirs so MPS voted themselves a great big fat pay rise to compensate -over 10000 iirc so now the long-suffering taxpayer pays a committee allowance to all MPS in perpetuity even though all MPS never said on committees at the same time. You’ll never get in between an MP or Senator and a trough of public money.

  26. None

    For the record I’m not antit smoking; you can smoke as much as you like and yes you can smoke in front of me. I’d rather you smoke than suck on a bong and then try fly a plane. I’m just pointing out the total hypocrisy’ and lunacy of these vaping advocates. Harm minimisation. God. Set up government funded smoking rooms with taxpayer supplied cigarettes why don’t you? Hey if it’s good enough for the druggies it’s good enough for the smokers.

  27. None

    Tosh. Natural tobacco cigarettes have always been available. Imported may cost a bit more that hell if you’re sinking $30 a packet you can sink $40. And there’s always chop chop.

  28. None

    BS. For some. I smoked cigarettes and they did nothing. I smoked several packs and then stopped.

    Hate to tell you but you don’t have any special biology. Yes it is addictive but as I said the withdrawal symptoms are really really mild, no more than something like mild hunger pangs. Which is why it is so easy to quit.
    The reason why some think it’s not easy to quit is because they tell themselves lies or have other people tell lies about smoking. For example here the state government runs these ads on TV that show these people looking all forlorn begging that you not smoke around them because they’re really really trying to quit. Once again that perpetuates the lie that somehow nicotine is this unbeatable monster. No it’s just addictive. But the good news is the withdrawal symptoms ate really really mild and easy to overcome. Everyone can quit cold turkey. Everyone.

  29. old bloke

    Is Greg Hunt another of those New Zealander members of Parliament?

    His ban on vaping just added millions of Australian dollars to the New Zealand vaping supplier’s incomes.

  30. None

    Vaping advocates need to decide which story they want to push. One minute they’re telling us harm minimisation, the next minute they’re crying business opportunities for single mothers. Get a grip. Bah humbug with respect typifies the misinformation both fed to and fed by vaping advocates. The reason why he has cravings within an hour or so of a cigarette is precisely because that’s how nicotine works. In fact that’s how all addiction works. The minute you withdraw the addictive substance your withdrawal symptoms begin and they don’t stop until you feed your cravings with that addictive substance. In the case of cigarettes your withdrawal symptoms begin the minute you finish a cigarette. And this is why most smokers smoke at least 20 a day or 1 a waking hour. But oh feel the pain. The withdrawal symptoms, the cravings, are nothing more serious than having very mild hunger pangs. So mild that they don’t even wake you up so that you can have a cigarette . And those very mild hunger pangs, depending on the person, within two or three days or two weeks at the most. Withdrawla symptoms no worse than very very mild hunger pangs that are not even painful or life threatening. Unbelievable. And yet every smoker including me had plenty of willpower to pick up a second cigarette and a 3rd and 4th when smoking really was nothing more pleasurable than licking bottom of ashtrays and thus get ourselves addicted. And then we complained that we didn’t have the willpower to 2 put up with something akin to mild hunger pangs for a few days in order to quit. (It’s actually more pathetic because when you have nicotine craving it lasts for a split second and the minute you distract yourself it’s gone). The no will power yada yada us the lie we tell ourselves and it’s the lie vaping advocates tell others and that’s the simple lie that keeps everyone who wants to quit from quitting. Basically smokers who smoke want to smoke. I’m not here to nanny them or waste.taxpayer dollars setting up more regimes more public servants more regulations to support the nicotine habit via vaping. You want to quit, then quit.

  31. Perth Trader

    After reading all those posts I need a ‘ciggie’……

  32. Some History

    …when smoking really was nothing more pleasurable than licking bottom of ashtrays and thus get ourselves addicted.

    None, you seem to be quite familiar with licking the bottom of ashtrays. I don’t know of any smokers – or even ex-smokers – with such familiarity. It’s usually antismokers that are very familiar with licking the bottom of ashtrays.

    Nicotine is addictive full stop. The tiniest bit of nicotine is addictive. No amount of nicotine is good for you.

    Sorry, None, but that’s a load of antismoking crap that goes back to mid-1800s America.
    Are you aware that there’s plenty of evidence that nicotine is not addictive? The claim that nicotine is “addictive” does not come from evidence but from an incoherent redefinition of “addiction” in 1988 by the rabidly antismoking (then committed to a “smokefree” America by 2000) US Office of the Surgeon-General. Addiction, however incoherently applied, is central to the prohibitionists’ obscene “leperization” of smokers.
    Are you aware that nicotine is not peculiar to tobacco? Most aren’t. Most are ingesting small amounts of nicotine from a number of sources, e.g., potatoes, tomatoes, egg plant, green peppers, black tea.
    Are you familiar with nicotinic acid (also known as niacin, vitamin B3)? Where do you think it might come from?

    I have difficulty supporting the vapers because many are ex-smoking antismokers. In their quest to get nicotine additive for e-cigs legalized, they’ve thrown smokers under the bus. They spout the standard antismoking slogans. We’ve had to endure another wave of antismoking crap.

  33. sdfc

    None, you sound suspiciously like someone who’s never been a smoker.

  34. Some History

    None, you sound suspiciously like someone who’s never been a smoker.

    None’s mentioned he/she is an ex-smoker:
    As an ex smoker let me tell you something.

  35. sdfc

    If None thinks smoking is only addictive because of nicotine then I’m calling bullshit.

  36. sdfc

    By the way you’re a dickhead.

  37. None

    Question for all of you: describe the taste of your first cigarette. Honest smokers recall that their first cigarette tasted like s***. I can recall that my first few cigarettes tasted like s*** but I insisted because I wanted to be cool and in with the in crowd at work. I’m also smart enough to know that smoking is a totally irrational activity and yet because of those cravings and that addiction I persisted with it for years and yes I went through all the same self justifications that I have read on this thread plus many more and many times I actually hated myself for being so addicted that I couldn’t go anywhere without first counting my cigarettes and making sure I wouldn’t run out. Someone up above talked about the psychology of smoking. Yes there is a psychological aspect and it is simply the lies we tell ourselves about why we smoke and why we can’t stop smoking. It really is that simple. I don’t care if you smoke. As I said I’d rather you smoke cigarettes and smoke weed or crack. Just don’t tell lies to yourself about why you smoke and why you can’t stop smoking comma that’s all I’m saying. If you want to make it case for vaping, don’t make a case for it on the basis of the stupid lies we tell ourselves about smoking.

    Oh and by the way, if you can’t remember what your first cigarette tasted like, stop smoking for 2 days and then light up again.

  38. None

    As I said I’d rather you smoke cigarettes INSTEAD OF smoke weed or crack. 

  39. None

    By the way you’re a dickhead.

    No, I’m a woman and calling your BS is my job. Anyway if a pathetic creature like me can quit a pretty hardcore smoking habit without drama, I’m sure all of you can too.

  40. sdfc

    None

    Smoking is tough when you first start and yes I pretty much started because I thought it was cool. But pretty soon it turns into a ritual that has little to do with nicotine.

    Having a beer and a smoke is one of my favourite pastimes. I haven’t smoked full-time for close to 30 years, but if I’m having a beer I’ll have a few, until I discovered vaping.

    It’s not the nicotine that kills you, it’s all the other shit you suck into your lungs. Why ban nicotine in vape juice when vaping is nowhere near as harmful?

    I didn’t call you a dickhead. I called Some Propaganda a dickhead.

  41. None

    You’re a gentleman, sdfc.
    A beer and a smoke was a favourite past time for me for many years but I will challenge you. Go have a smoke just a smoke. Do nothing else but smoke. Don’t drink a beer or a coffee, talk to anyone read newspaper and just have a smoke and really, really think about what it is that you get out of smoking full stop and then come back to us. As for ritual yes but why should government have to implement laws, set up hierarchies and employ costly fat bureaucrats on my dine to support your ritual? Change your ritual. There are plenty of other rituals that cost you nothing and don’t cost you your health or put a hole in MY pocket. Plus there is no reason why you have to vape nicotine to fulfill your need for ritual – you can go and vape cow juice for all I care. Why don’t you? That is because you are addicted to nicotine.

    I also used to smoke what I thought additive free tobacco like American Natural Spirit but I was still addicted.

    Also there is no such thing as a part-time smoker or a social smoker or all the other stupid labels we use to avoid the fact that we are smokers full stop. And just how part time is your part time? Once a week? You’re addicted. 😊

  42. Some History

    sdfc & None, if that’s your experience, no-one is arguing the point. It’s when you hysterically extrapolate from your experience to everyone that it’s problematic. Further, your blathering on doesn’t fit the actual evidence. Then we have sdfc with his/her usual contribution – short, no sense, vulgar. And that’s probably a great strain on his/her cognitive apparatus.

    sdfc, you’re worse than an antismoker: You’re an antismoking smoker. Since you took up vaping – since you’ve been “saved” – you’ve become oh, so “superior”. You keep telling yourself that, buttercup; in your puny thinking, you so desperately need to believe it. Did you say you’ll now be crawling back under the rock from whence you came? Well, there’s some good news here after all.

  43. None

    Nicotine is addictive. It’s impact on the body is now fairly well understood -from brain chemistry to liver (they can even tell you why you tend to smoke more when you drink alcohol). Smokers are addicted to nicotine. Vaping it’s just nicotine juice. You can’t magically change chemistry and biophysics. End of story.

  44. None
    #2674717, posted on March 30, 2018 at 10:28 pm

    By the way you’re a dickhead.

    No, I’m a woman and calling your BS is my job.

    Now that explains all of this fuckwits posts about smoking and addiction.
    Typical nagging bitch trying to virtue signal her superior will power.
    Making dumb correlations like the will power involved in picking up your 2nd and 3rd cigarette to the will power involved in giving up after 40+ years of smoking.

    Lets see a few more examples…

    Vaping it’s just nicotine juice.

    A typical 30ml of vape juice with 3 mg/ml of nicotine will have 0.9 ml of nicotine “juice’ in it. So it’s not “just nicotine juice.”

    You can’t magically change chemistry and biophysics. End of story.

    Typical bitch argument, dismissive with the wave of a hand and a screeching “end of story” quip. What next, you gonna threaten to go to your mothers?
    Speaking of biophysics, men are more susceptible to addictions. That’s why men are more likely to be problem gamblers, drug addicts, alcoholics, extreme sports addicts and have trouble giving up smoking. Women tend to occupy the extreme ends of the bell curve. Less women get addicted, but they are the worst addicts at the extreme end.

    Bah humbug with respect typifies the misinformation both fed to and fed by vaping advocates. The reason why he has cravings within an hour or so of a cigarette is precisely because that’s how nicotine works.

    Presumptuous bitch. Claiming I feed misinformation and am susceptible to misinformation. Assuming I didn’t do any research or due diligence.
    After having taken the time to reply to her claims, she either didn’t understand what I wrote or willfully disregarded it. Here is what I wrote in my reply…

    It’s NOT the nicotine that harms smokers, it’s the myriad other poisons and particulates.
    Nicotine is an addictive stimulant. Nicotine gets you hooked, the other stuff harms.

    In the same paragraph where she claims I’ve been fed misinformation, she tells me that nicotine is addictive, which is exactly what I said it was. But she willfully avoids the rest of what I said.

    Typical fvcking woman. Go on, fvck off to your mothers. (that’s how I end the argument)

  45. indigo

    The rise in obesity and drug usage rates started with the beginning of the decline in smoking. More people will die from obesity and drugs than smoking. Sooner or later we will find out that like heart disease lung cancer is genetic. That’s why 30% of lung cancer victims have never been smokers.

  46. Tel

    Are you familiar with nicotinic acid (also known as niacin, vitamin B3)? Where do you think it might come from?

    For a while when I was giving up smoking I took No Doz Plus as a cheap substitute (much cheaper than those insanely overpriced inhalers) and if you are used to getting going with some smokes in the morning, then some other alternative stimulant helps the day along. I’m sure the wowsers would ban coffee if they could get away with it… they never give up.

    Anyhow, I looked it up and nicotinic acid does NOT trigger the same receptor as nicotine, even though they are chemically similar. Interesting though that both choline and acetylcholine do naturally trigger the same receptor as nicotine, and choline is very easy to get but the level in people’s diets does vary significantly. I wonder if that’s ever been studied?

  47. Tel

    You can’t magically change chemistry and biophysics. End of story.

    You forgot the part of the story where there’s absolutely no measurable link between nicotine and cancer, despite extensive studies attempting to find one. But you know, even when you can’t change chemistry and biophysics, you can be highly selective so as to give a false impression.

  48. None

    I couldn’t care less if you smoked yourself into an early grave Tel – I am not paying for another f****** bureaucracy because a bunch of morons need to suck on nicotine juice on the pretense that they can’t quit smoking. If you want harm minimisation then quit smoking. Simple, costless, free. If you tell me you can’t quit, you’re lying.

  49. None

    You forgot the part of the story where there’s absolutely no measurable link between nicotine and cancer

    goodo then smoke additive free cigarettes or tobacco. Less chemicals than vape juice. Next.

  50. Anna Warner

    Vaping is to smoking what condoms are to sex. How ironic that abstinence is seen as the only solution to smoking when sexual abstinence to combat STDs is considered laughably naive. Also, I think anti-smoking zealots hate vaping because it looks like smoking and they hate seeing anything that reminds them of it. Maybe it reminds them of their former smoking days and makes them feel tempted. Just as many sexual puritans hate pornogtaphy because of the temptation power it holds over them

  51. james b

    None. Smoking cigarettes is completely legal for anyone over the age of 18.

    Believe it or not, some people would like to continue smoking, but without the ‘overheads’ of cigarettes, the burning, the smell and of course the cancer.

    I don’t know if vaping is 95% safer than cigarettes, but even if it’s only a little safer than cigarettes, say 10% safer, that’s still going to save some of the 15,000 Australians who die from smoking related causes each year.

    Unfortunately the self-appointed moral guardians believe that any form of nicotine consumption that doesn’t encourage smokers to quit smoking, is bad. You can have nicotine replacement products, as long as they are designed to help you quit, you can’t have them as an alternative for smoking.

    Their ‘arguments’ seem to be two-fold.
    1. There’s no evidence that vaping is any better for you than smoking. They (the ‘expert’ policy makers and lobbyists) personally haven’t done the testing and investigation, but it’s been done overseas and shown pretty conclusively that vaping is less harmful than smoking cigarettes. It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain, that breathing burning particulate matter into your lungs is going to be more harmful than breathing water vapor into your lungs. And any smoker who has switched to vaping for any reasonable length of time, could anecdotally tell you that they feel much better for having done so.

    2. The legalisation of vaping will encourage more young people to take up the habit. The old ‘think of the children’ strategy. Impossible to quantify, impossible to track. Sure, some young people may take up vaping who might never have taken up smoking cigarettes, but is that a reason to deny life saving technology for a whole group of people who already smoke, but would like to improve their lives and their health by switching to vaping? Regardless, anyone over the age of 18 can walking into any corner store, supermarket or servo and legally buy a packet of cigarettes. Perhaps instead they might buy a vape. Perhaps that might save their life.

    Environmentally vaping makes sense. There’s no burning, no cigarette butts with the potential to start fires, no ash therefore no dirty, smelly ashtrays, no stink of cigarettes on your clothes or person, no yellow fingers and little to no waste (cigarette packets, plastic wrappers etc).

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