Monday Forum: August 13, 2018

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1,596 Responses to Monday Forum: August 13, 2018

  1. Farmer Gez

    On religious matters my mind strays to years ago.
    The Church of something or rather would door knock around the farms and the proselytisers would bring their teenage daughters with their black skirts and white blouses.
    They may have been preaching God’s word but when I looked in those girl’s eyes they were thinking the same carnal thoughts as my desperate teenage mind.
    How could I get them away from the parents and not have to join the chorus? Never could or did but it used to brighten up a dull Sunday arvo.

  2. Chris

    Greenpeace are probably already looking for a dead turtle to wrap in a Colesworth bag.

    I say, Pedro, can you find me a dead turtle? Maybe with this bag stuck in its throat? I am willing to pay a finders fee…

  3. I say, Pedro, can you find me a dead turtle?

    I can do as many possums as you want for a reasonable fee.
    I can add coles plastic bags for only 15c each.

  4. Confused Old Misfit

    Standard theory says there wasn’t a before.

    This is a hypothesis, which has been proposed some several billion years after the hypothetical big bang, and therefore may not be terribly relevant to the origin of the universe.

  5. areff

    Q&A’s Tony Jones will want to charge his interruptorator before tonight’s show, as two guests out of five are solidly on the side of free speech and the third, the people’s rep, boasts a pedigree that suggests is even moreso.

    Abetz and Lindsay Shepherd look solid, while guest #5, Jeremy Bell,

    is a lecturer in philosophy, history and theology at Campion College, Sydney. He studied Arts at the University of Sydney, majoring in Jewish Civilization, Thought and Culture. He graduated with Honours and the university medal in 2004. He went on to complete an M.Phil. in philosophy at the University of Sydney before commencing doctoral studies at the University of Chicago in 2007

    Against them, a visiting US race huckster and Anne Aly.

    Expect the full measure of comperus interruptus

  6. areff

    Q&A’s Tony Jones will want to charge his interruptorator before tonight’s show, as two guests out of five are solidly on the side of free speech and the third, the people’s rep, boasts a pedigree that suggests is even moreso.

    Abetz and Lindsay Shepherd look solid, while guest #5, Jeremy Bell,

    is a lecturer in philosophy, history and theology at Campion College, Sydney. He studied Arts at the University of Sydney, majoring in Heebrooo Civilization, Thought and Culture. He graduated with Honours and the university medal in 2004. He went on to complete an M.Phil. in philosophy at the University of Sydney before commencing doctoral studies at the University of Chicago in 2007

    Against them, a visiting US race huckster and Anne Aly.

    Expect the full measure of comperus interruptus

    (re-posted because the spaminator gobbled first attempt)

  7. DrBeauGan

    Farmer Gez
    #2787831, posted on August 13, 2018 at 3:50 pm
    On religious matters my mind strays to years ago.
    The Church of something or rather would door knock around the farms and the proselytisers would bring their teenage daughters with their black skirts and white blouses.
    They may have been preaching God’s word but when I looked in those girl’s eyes they were thinking the same carnal thoughts as my desperate teenage mind.
    How could I get them away from the parents and not have to join the chorus? Never could or did but it used to brighten up a dull Sunday arvo.

    I went to a revivalist meeting once, where a fifteen year old girl preached about coming to gard. She was gorgeous to look at and set my thirteen year old hormones racing, but she was dumb as a brick in conversation afterwards.

    Big disappointment.

  8. Stimpson J. Cat

    Charlie Kirk
    @charliekirk11
    BREAKING:
    All 10 Senate Democrats in Red States running for re-election are below 50%
    New Jersey Incumbent is at 42%
    GOP could pick up 11 seats in November

    Monty is this true?
    Explain yourself.

  9. Boambee John

    Geriatric Mayfly
    #2787813, posted on August 13, 2018 at 3:30 pm
    Mr Hagger from NAB has run into very stormy weather at the Banking Royal Commission. Fees for no service seems to keep cropping up at this RC. Mr Hodge QC showing a little impatience with answers that are not succinct.

    Fees for no service sounds s bit like Australian Super and the temporary census workers.

    It will be interesting to see if the Commissioner grasps this particular nettle.

  10. DrBeauGan

    Confused Old Misfit
    #2787835, posted on August 13, 2018 at 3:56 pm
    Standard theory says there wasn’t a before.

    This is a hypothesis, which has been proposed some several billion years after the hypothetical big bang, and therefore may not be terribly relevant to the origin of the universe.

    True. It may be a load of old cobblers. But deciding whether to buy it is based on how well it accounts for present day observations, not on the date of its origins.

  11. Cassie of Sydney

    “Boambee John
    #2787790, posted on August 13, 2018 at 3:00 pm
    Woolfe
    #2787748, posted on August 13, 2018 at 2:17 pm
    ABC asks David Lyonhjelm if he would do anything different with regard to SHY. He says no. Escalate, always escalate!

    As with the terrorists coming into the room, this is the only rational tactic.”

    This is why I respect Senator Leyonjhelm. He is not craven, he is not cowardly, he fights. I went to a talk yesterday and the speakers basically said the same thing…don’t kowtow to the left, you need to take a stand when smeared and you need throw the smear back. When you are interviewed by a journalist under false pretences who then proceeds to smears you as a racist, you need to smear back. Return the favour…call them a pedophile and then see how they like that. And then tell them to fuck off.

  12. Fees for no service sounds s bit like Australian Super Taxation …

  13. Speedbox

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk is being sued by two unhappy investors after he tweeted plans to take the electric car company private last week.

    Yeah, and that isn’t his only problem. The SEC is having a close look at the legality of his tweets. As I said last week when he first issued the Tweets, he will be in diabolical trouble if this is another exercise in Musk bullshit.

    Tesla is a polished turn with Musk as Polisher-in-Chief.

  14. Cassie of Sydney

    ““Boambee John
    #2787790, posted on August 13, 2018 at 3:00 pm
    Woolfe
    #2787748, posted on August 13, 2018 at 2:17 pm
    ABC asks David Lyonhjelm if he would do anything different with regard to SHY. He says no. Escalate, always escalate!

    As with the terrorists coming into the room, this is the only rational tactic.”

    This is why I respect Senator Lyonjhelm. He is not craven, he is not cowardly, he fights. I went to a talk yesterday and the speakers basically said the same thing…don’t kowtow to the left, you need to take a stand when smeared and you need throw the smear back. When you are interviewed by a journalist under false pretences who then proceeds to smears you as a racist, you need to smear back. Return the favour…call them a ped*p*ile and then see how they like that. And then tell them to fuck off.

  15. Boambee John

    Rambler at 1602

    In Victoria you pay additional fees if you want police service.

  16. When it comes to its origins, who would rely on experience based on what it is like fourteen billion years later? The theory is about the origin of space-time. That’s a singular event. Expecting it to behave like subsequent events inside it shows unwarranted optimism.

    Neither does anyone have any ‘experience’ of an electron, or galaxy formation, or of the universe 10 billion years ago, and the like, and yet we still have an expectation that as phenomena they are not brute facts and therefore have an explanation. Therefore, we still have been given no reason for thinking that the universe as a whole is unlike its parts in this respect beyond its singularity as an event, but right now this is also true of the origin of life and of consciousness and no one is assuming they and/or their origins have no explanation and are thereby unintelligible.

  17. areff

    Just received this from the NGV, that bluff-walled citadel of art on St Kilda Road. Bluff-walled to deter ignorant sorts who don’t regard skeltons playing cards as art:

    Ken Unsworth’s dynamic and gravity-defying sculptural installations, featuring resin cast skeletons, grand pianos and saw blades, will be taking over the foyer spaces at NGV Australia in his first major Melbourne sculpture exhibition.

    Ranging from early sculptural works from the 1960s through to new works that have been created especially for this exhibition, Ken Unsworth: Truly, Madly highlights some of the key works from the more than fifty-year career of Melbourne born, Sydney-based sculptural artist Ken Unsworth. Working intuitively in combining juxtaposing elements, Unsworth references his personal experiences of love and death to create eye-catching installations that spark the viewer’s curiosity.

    Highlights of the exhibition include, When the angel of the lord came down, which features a grand piano and pays homage to Unsworth’s wife, who was a concert pianist. A further highlight, Mind games, featuring two skeletons seated at a table, references the game of life and death and Unsworth’s fascination with the human body.

    Never-before-seen works include Alphaville, an interactive display that features a montage of subliminal city sounds, including barking dogs, crying babies and prayer rituals, and nearly 5m high buildings that visitors can move amongst. A further new work, When snowflakes turn to stone, features a larger-than-life resin-cast skeleton surrounded by suspended stones and highlights Unsworth’s reoccurring exploration of the human body.

    Tony Ellwood AM, Director, NGV said ‘Featuring works that span across Ken’s five-decade career, the exhibition highlights his ingenious ability to create interactive installations that will spark visitor curiosity. The installations feature meticulously arranged objects that often seem to defy gravity, and we hope visitors to the gallery will enjoy the opportunity to experience them here in Melbourne for the first time.’

    Unsworth was Australia’s first visual artist to be awarded the Australian Creative Fellowship by Prime Minister Paul Keating in 1989, and in the same year was also honoured with a Member of The Order of Australia. Growing up in Melbourne, Unsworth developed a passion for AFL football and trams before moving on to study architecture and art teaching. After teaching high school art, he then went on to become involved in the Australian art scene, exhibiting in the 1976 Sydney Biennale and multiple Australian Sculptural Triennial’s, along with representing Australia in international Biennales in Paris, Venice and Istanbul. Unsworth has also featured in major international exhibitions, including ‘Magiciens de la Terre’, which was curated by Jean-Hubert Martin at The Pompidou Centre in 1989.

    Examine his oeuvre here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e2g2kkcxuvtl4pi/AAC7_PKW70lFg6pckMII3d3Wa?dl=0

    Ken Unsworth: Truly, Madly is on display 14 September 2018 – 17 February 2019 at the Ian Potter Centre: NGV Australia at Federation Square. Entry is FREE. Further information is available from the NGV website: NGV.MELBOURNE

  18. cohenite

    A God can be of 3 types: in and of the Universe and bound by laws of the Universe, not bound by the Universe or the Universe. For a good discussion of these and other conundrums see Paul Davies and The Mind of God and God and the New Physics.

  19. Farmer Gez

    I went to a revivalist meeting once, where a fifteen year old girl preached about coming to gard. She was gorgeous to look at and set my thirteen year old hormones racing, but she was dumb as a brick in conversation afterwards.

    Big disappointment.

    Dumb as a brick. Praise the Lord!
    You’re way too intellectual DrBeauGan.

  20. Confused Old Misfit

    Standard theory says there wasn’t a before.

    Some time ago I recall reading that there were a number of somewhat shaky mathematical assumptions made with respect to this theory. A counter argument was presented to the math that supported the concept of there not being a before. I had not the mathematical skills to address what was presented in the paper and so succumbed to my confirmation bias and accepted that the whole idea was, as you say, a load of old cobblers.
    None of which means that it may (or may not) be possible.

  21. Rae

    ABC asks David Lyonhjelm if he would do anything different with regard to SHY. He says no.

    He can hardly say otherwise to this straight gotcha type question. SHYs defamation action against him is still on foot. Anything other than a “No” lessons the ability of his lawyers to limit the amount he has to pay her.

  22. cohenite

    Former The Apprentice star Omarosa Manigault claims a tape of President Trump uttering a racist epithet exists and NBC may release it as an “October surprise.”

    But is she telling the truth? Not likely, as the MSM would’ve released or leaked such a tape long ago.

    What she did do is tape highly confidential material in a highly confidential area. I hope she and her media supporters are really prosecuted on this one.

  23. DrBeauGan

    Neither does anyone have any ‘experience’ of an electron, or galaxy formation, or of the universe 10 billion years ago, and the like,

    Not true. We have quite a lot of experience with electrons, see your mobile phone or computer, both of which rely upon such experience. And we can and do look back in time billions of years when we point a telescope at something a few billion light years away.

    What we see is, up to a red shift, the same sort of spectrum we see on earth. Which cheers up physicists no end. And we do see what looks like galaxy formation. We certainly see star formation within our own galaxy. But that’s a mere five billion years or so, and still ongoing.

  24. Mitch M.

    Some time ago I recall reading that there were a number of somewhat shaky mathematical assumptions made with respect to this theory.

    Cosmology is just an excuse to try and fill in the gaps left open by the demise of religion. I don’t like it and the creation of dark energy\matter strikes me as ad hoc. It is now being seriously questioned. Physics does wonderful stuff of that we can be sure but like all scientific theories completeness is rare. The standard model is now being challenged and that is a good thing. The central dogma of biology has been trashed, evolutionary theory is hopefully undergoing a new synthesis(Alternberg 16?) because it too has problems. Understanding human behavior is something of a paradox because intuitively it is obvious in some respects but scientifically we are making little progress.

  25. DrBeauGan

    Some time ago I recall reading that there were a number of somewhat shaky mathematical assumptions made with respect to this theory. A counter argument was presented to the math that supported the concept of there not being a before. I had not the mathematical skills to address what was presented in the paper and so succumbed to my confirmation bias

    Naughty. You should keep an open mind. Believing things because you want to is very vulgar. Also it tends to come back and bite you in the bum.

    I don’t have much time for speculation, so don’t find the standard model very compelling. But it sure beats believing things because you want to.

  26. DrBeauGan

    Cosmology is just an excuse to try and fill in the gaps left open by the demise of religion. I don’t like it and the creation of dark energy\matter strikes me as ad hoc.

    Quite so. I agree entirely.

  27. .

    So Leyonhjelm has cucked the LNP as well now, not just Hinch?

    Great stuff.

  28. candy

    But it sure beats believing things because you want to.

    You believe in the love of your family DrBeauGan, the respect of your mates/peers? though you can’t see it or prove it with mathematic equations?

  29. Speedbox

    Former The Apprentice star Omarosa Manigault claims a tape of President Trump uttering a racist epithet exists and NBC may release it as an “October surprise.”

    But is she telling the truth? Not likely, as the MSM would’ve released or leaked such a tape long ago.

    What’s more, she first claimed (in her book of course) that pollster Frank Luntz had heard Trump use the word. Luntz says no, I didn’t, and any assertion that I did is a complete lie. Then she said that she had heard the tape recording herself which contradicts an earlier assertion that she didn’t hear the actual recording herself but has known of the tape’s existence for at least two years. She is scheduled to appear on numerous US chat shows over the coming week (promoting her book and getting appearance fees, no doubt).

    Apart from her flip flop on the tape, she has a big problem – she recorded her dismissal from the White House staff whilst in the Situation Room. This was a gross breach of national security protocol and could result in federal charges.

  30. Confused Old Misfit

    Naughty. You should keep an open mind. Believing things because you want to is very vulgar. Also it tends to come back and bite you in the bum.

    And it is naughty of you to assume that this is a regular practice and/or that I need chastising by you on account thereof. It is a waste of your precious speculation time lecturing me.

  31. Mitch M.

    You believe in the love of your family DrBeauGan, the respect of your mates/peers? though you can’t see it or prove it with mathematic equations?

    Mathematics is not the only source of evidence. We’d be lost without mathematics, it is the foundation stone of so much modern progress. BG can help me here(I hope) because I have read that while mathematics is the best source of certainty there are still many uncertainties lurking within mathematics.

  32. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Veterans Affairs Minister Darren Chester says Ben Roberts-Smith probe is under way

    Ben Packham
    Political Reporter
    14 minutes ago August 13, 2018

    Veterans Affairs Minister Darren Chester has repeated unsubstantiated claims that an investigation is under way into an allegation of domestic violence against Australia’s most decorated soldier, Ben Roberts-Smith.

    Lawyers for Mr Roberts-Smith have asked Malcolm Turnbull to clarify similar comments he made last week, arguing police had not followed the allegation up with the VC winner, who flatly denies any wrongdoing.

    Referring to the Prime Minister’s comments, Mr Chester said: “He indicated that there are investigations under way and that’s my understanding; there are investigations under way.

    “People have the right to natural justice. Their actions or the allegations should be properly investigated by the responsible authorities,” Mr Chester told Sky News.

    “It is my understanding that an allegation has been made. Where it sits in terms of who is investigating or not investigating, at this time I don’t have direct knowledge to share with you.”

    Malcolm Turnbull last week said “complaints have been made to the police and they will be dealt with appropriately”.

    “Obviously I can’t make any comment on the specific matters because they are being dealt with by the police,” Mr Turnbull said on Friday.

    ACT police have refused to say whether an investigation has been launched, or even whether a complaint was made, over an alleged incident that occurred following a March 28 event at Parliament House

    From the Oz. “unsubstantiated claims” my hairy ar$e. Has anyone ever returned a Victoria Cross, and/or a Medal for Gallantry, in protest. before?

  33. Stimpson J. Cat

    while mathematics is the best source of certainty there are still many uncertainties lurking within mathematics.

    Of course.
    Anything dependent on the whims of Nerds is certainly uncertain.

  34. DrBeauGan, you left out the relevant part,

    and yet we still have an expectation that as phenomena they are not brute facts and therefore have an explanation.

    I notice we still have no reason for thinking that the universe as a whole is different from its parts.

  35. candy

    Sounds as if DVA are investigating the DV allegation and not the police, an odd situation.?

    Surely B. Robert-Smith’s lawyers have the correct information, that police are not involved.

  36. Confused Old Misfit

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2787874, posted on August 13, 2018 at 4:45 pm
    Monty At Charlottesville.

    OMG!

  37. Makka

    Shane Oliver, AMP Capital sees the Australian dollar moving down to around US70c after it broke out from a narrow trading range centred around US74c.

    Oliver is always wise after the event. No value at all, really.

  38. DrBeauGan

    Mathematics is not the only source of evidence. We’d be lost without mathematics, it is the foundation stone of so much modern progress. BG can help me here(I hope) because I have read that while mathematics is the best source of certainty there are still many uncertainties lurking within mathematics.

    Mathematics is a language suitable for talking, or rather, writing about things too complicated to be captured in English, and simple enough to be more or less comprehensible. You can be certain that 2+2=4 only because we designed the language to make sure it would be. And we did so because it is true for sheep, fingers and apples if we interpret 2, +, 4 and = suitably. The same applies to all mathematics. It doesn’t give truth except in an unusual and misleading sense of the word. It does, however, give clarity. It makes it easier to see through the murk.

    There’s a lot of murk about. Some of it on this thread.

  39. stackja

    Jobs axed as John Cootes Furniture to shut after 35 years
    Staff writers, AAP, News Corp Australia Network
    August 13, 2018 12:19pm

    AFTER 35 years in business in Australia, John Cootes Furniture has been forced to close its doors, shedding 135 jobs.

    The closure will also see 12 stores close across NSW and the ACT by the end of December.

    Those affected include 90 full-time and 45 casual and part-time workers.

    The decision was announced on Monday by the retailer’s owner Elanor Investors Group and follows a strategic review of the business.

    “Following the review, Elanor has now decided to commence an orderly closure of the business,” it said in a statement to the stock exchange.

    Elanor said it was committed to ensuring the payout of all entitlements and redundancies, along with an unspecified ex-gratia payment, to workers.

    It has blamed tough retail market conditions in NSW for the closure of Australian-owned John Cootes, which has operated since the 1980s.

  40. stackja

    Fatal sword attack victim revealed as IT worker and wannabe rap star
    Nick Hansen, The Daily Telegraph
    August 13, 2018 1:51pm
    Subscriber only

    THE 30-year-old victim of Friday’s fatal attack involving a samurai sword in Sydney’s inner west has been revealed as an IT worker who was trying to launch a career as a rapper.

    Jett “Scepaz” McKee was hit in the head with a sword on Friday afternoon in Forest Lodge, near Glebe.

    Mr McKee is understood to have received a massive head wound during an argument with two people inside a home on Hereford St.

  41. DrBeauGan

    and yet we still have an expectation that as phenomena they are not brute facts and therefore have an explanation.

    We are so constituted as to make up theories to account for what we observe in the world, DB. It seems to be what brains are for. That does not of itself guarantee that we’ll get one that is any use.

  42. stackja

    Manslaughter charge for NSW body modifier
    Perry Duffin, Australian Associated Press
    43 minutes ago

    A body modifier has been charged with manslaughter after a NSW woman who had a plastic snowflake implanted in her hand died of blood poisoning.

    The 37-year-old man – who works as body modifier and tattooist on the Central Coast – was also charged on Monday with grievous bodily harm following an operating on a second woman.

    He was already facing female genital mutilation charges for allegedly burning the genitals of a third woman with a branding iron sometime in 2016 at Newcastle West.

    The body modifier was arrested at his Terrigal home on Monday morning.

    NSW Police say a 30-year-old client of his tattoo shop was found dead in her Toowoon Bay home by her seven-year-old daughter in mid-April.

    The woman had a plastic snowflake implanted under the skin of her right hand in a surgical procedure three weeks before her death and later complained of complications, detectives allege.

    A post-mortem examination revealed she died from an infection.

    A second woman, aged 38, also complained after going to the man’s business for a stomach procedure in November 2016. He’s been charged with causing her grievous bodily harm.

    The man was refused bail by police and is expected before Gosford Local Court on Tuesday.

  43. jupes

    Referring to the Prime Minister’s comments, Mr Chester said: “He indicated that there are investigations under way and that’s my understanding; there are investigations under way.

    If this is the case, then the AFP have been investigating a domestic violence allegation for four months without speaking to the alleged perpetrator.

    Just what exactly do these bumbling dickheads do all day?

  44. DrBeauGan

    A body modifier has been charged with manslaughter after a NSW woman who had a plastic snowflake implanted in her hand died of blood poisoning.

    Caveat emptor. I can’t help feel that anyone demanding their body be modified deserves all they get.

    Does a post operative tranny complaining that he still isn’t a woman have grounds for sueing, I wonder?

  45. Baldrick

    Has anyone ever returned a Victoria Cross, and/or a Medal for Gallantry, in protest. before?

    No, but 8 have been forfeited/cancelled due to offences committed after it was awarded.

  46. Stimpson J. Cat

    The woman had a plastic snowflake implanted under the skin of her right hand in a surgical procedure three weeks before her death and later complained of complications, detectives allege.

    And this is why you never tell people to
    “Harden Up, Snowflake. “

  47. Oh come on

    Idris Elba will not be the last Bond. There will be a female and then a trans Bond before the franchise unceremoniously fizzles out.

    The trans Bond actor and film will win Oscars and that will fully deep-six the whole thing.

  48. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Cops nick men on motorised picnic table in the Swan Valley
    PerthNow
    August 13, 2018 11:33AM
    Topics
    Swan Valley

    A quartet of merry men riding around the Swan Valley on a motorised picnic table, what could possibly go wrong?

    The men were captured making a grand exit from Ugly Duckling Wines in West Swan on Saturday afternoon after getting there too late for a quick drink.

    Traffic Enforcement Group officers stopped small-but-loud ‘vehicle’, which fittingly had the number plate “Carefactor 0%”, travelling on West Swan Road in West Swan at around 5.10pm.

  49. John Constantine

    Their waleed aly will be the next smouldering Australian Bond.

    The villain, of course, will be Trumptopia.

  50. John Constantine

    Australia is basically a more sprawling version of Pitcairn Island with a population property Ponzi scheme and an agriculture sector in the process of rewilding, while fossil fuels are banned and mining is replaced with State services.

    Bitcoin has a former base in reality that the Australian dollar.

    Comrades.

  51. Mark from Melbourne

    Actually, “former” works for me.

  52. testpattern

    ‘A God can be of 3 types’

    The Three Amigos!

    In nomine Steve Martin et Chevy Chase et Martin Short. Danny Trejo in supporting role as as virgin demigod.

  53. We are so constituted as to make up theories to account for what we observe in the world, DB. It seems to be what brains are for. That does not of itself guarantee that we’ll get one that is any use.

    That is still not providing a reason that the universe as a whole is different from its parts.

  54. Tel

    Does a post operative tranny complaining that he still isn’t a woman have grounds for sueing, I wonder?

    Oh golly! That could get ugly real quick.

  55. Geriatric Mayfly

    The last time curiosity got the better of me the Domestic Violence umbrella had beneath it multitudinous examples of infractions. Some so silly as to blind one to the real issue of physical assault and abuse.

  56. cohenite

    Mathematics is a language suitable for talking, or rather, writing about things too complicated to be captured in English, and simple enough to be more or less comprehensible.

    My wife’s a mathematician so I don’t think that’s right: ie

    Mathematical version:
    assume:
    A=B
    multiply both sides by A :
    AA=AB
    subtract B^2 from both sides:
    A^2-B^2=AB-B^2
    factor both sides:
    (A-B)(A+B)=B(A-B)
    divide both sides by A-B :
    A+B=B
    as A and B are equal, substitute all As with B’s:
    B+B=B
    continuing:
    2B=B2=1
    2=1

    English version:
    Shit happens.

  57. DrBeauGan

    That is still not providing a reason that the universe as a whole is different from its parts.

    The standard model asserts that the universe had a beginning in time, and that space-time began at that point. You don’t have to buy the standard model, but if you do, then you are stuck with whatever happens in the universe after its origin being different from the origin itself.

    If you don’t buy the standard model I’d like to know what your alternative is. It has to account for observations of atoms, light and galaxies. Saying God did it doesn’t do.

  58. Snoopy

    The science is settled.

    NSW South Coast farmer Tralee Snape was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in 2010, and said her oncologist called it a “farmer’s cancer”.

    “He said he couldn’t prove that himself, but from the patients he has there is a link to chemical sprays that are on a farm,” she said.

    She now believes her cancer was caused by glyphosate, the most commonly used herbicide in the world.

  59. DrBeauGan

    divide both sides by A-B :

    Illicit. If A=B, this is an attempt to divide by zero which is not permitted.

  60. Geriatric Mayfly

    ‘I’ll keep fighting from street’
    Outspoken veteran senator Lee Rhiannon has left parliament.

    The Apex Gang, oops! Group, might be about to induct their first ‘whitey.’ Hope she realises the chances of arrest on one their night forays will not be in her favour.

  61. testpattern

    ‘Australia’s most decorated soldier, Ben Roberts-Smith’

    Foolishly allowed himself to be commodified.

    ADF is one of the most media unfriendly among the allies. Promoting SASR is a recent development and inherently risky because ADF wants to promote certain elements while attempting to forbid others. It was always going to come unstuck.

    SASR are ordinary guys mostly from good middleclass families, wide spectrum of political views around the dinner table at home left to right. Bros/sis work in media and ngos.

    It’s an open secret that a certain media mogul is a serious collector of war memorabilia and uses his outlets to add market value to his errr ‘hobby.’

    The AWM purchase of Ben’s bloodied runners exposed an even more worrying trend – the legitimisation of a death fetish. Every time Nelson dons his white gloves to reverentially handle them he legitimises the creepy collectors of death fetish items and boosts the market price of their collections. Obviously that element has infiltrated the AWM too. Creepy Brendan, very very creepy.

  62. DrBeauGan

    Your argument is essentially 2*0= 1*0 therefore dividing by zero, 2=1. But it has been dressed up in algebra to conceal the swindle.

  63. Pedro the Ignorant

    NSW Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon, aka Lee Brown and Lee O’Gorman, has finally unseated her ample bum from the red leather for the last time and has vowed to “continue the fight in the streets”.

    Silly old bag should just retire to her house full of Che posters and a dozen cats.

  64. Frank

    Silly old bag should just retire to her house full of Che posters and a dozen cats.

    Greens hate cats.

  65. Bruce of Newcastle

    She now believes her cancer was caused by glyphosate, the most commonly used herbicide in the world.

    Sure it wasn’t due to paint? The IARC has classified titanium pigment as a Group 2B carcinogen. Is her house painted, her car, her tractor? Has she ever used sunscreen? Has she eaten cheese, or brushed her teeth with toothpaste? Has she ever done any home renovation?

    I wonder if she is afraid of the titanium pigment contained in money? Surely she won’t accept monetary compensation then in case the money gives her cancer.

    Hmmm, I wonder if she’s ever been exposed to petrol. Petrol contains aromatic compounds which are listed carcinogens. Has she ever filled up her car? Has she ever…

  66. DrBeauGan

    Greens hate cats.

    Of course they do. Cats have a sturdy independence and are impossible to herd.

  67. The standard model asserts that the universe had a beginning in time, and that space-time began at that point. You don’t have to buy the standard model, but if you do, then you are stuck with whatever happens in the universe after its origin being different from the origin itself.

    If you don’t buy the standard model I’d like to know what your alternative is. It has to account for observations of atoms, light and galaxies. Saying God did it doesn’t do.

    Not at all. I don’t expect the standard model to be able to furnish a comprehensive answer. It is rightly limited by its very nature. It’s not a question, therefore, of whether or not I buy or don’t buy the standard model, I’m just pressing the point of its explanatory limitation.

  68. testpattern

    STATE MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT APPROVES THUNDERBIRD MINERAL SANDS PROJECT

    40% Aboriginal employment within eight years

    ‘Minister Dawson’s announcement of State environmental approval for Thunderbird takes us a step closer
    to the commencement of construction of the 42 year Project.

    Our Kimberley based team are vigorously progressing onsite Government approved preliminary works,
    which are well underway. At the same time, we remain equally focussed on finalising the remaining
    permits.

    Today’s announcement is an exciting step towards the creation of almost 300 drive in drive out (DIDO)
    direct full-time jobs. In line with our pledge to the community, we are committed to providing local
    employment and business opportunities and have a clear goal of building to 40% Aboriginal employment
    within eight years of operations.’

    http://www.epa.wa.gov.au/proposals/thunderbird-mineral-sands-project

  69. Top Ender

    Rhiannon’s speech:

    Yes the parents of a few of us were in the communist party, but so what? The attacks then are not dissimilar from what I and sections of the Greens experience today,” she said.

    “As a 16-year-old the lessons I learnt in 1968 have stuck with me — organise, involve people in the campaign, build allies, and don’t be put off by bullying, insults and McCarthyist tactics of right-wing politicians and media,” she said.

    So, learnt nothing about communist dictators murdering millions.

    Learnt nothing about loony socialist dictatorships bringing misery to millions due to their crazy economic theories.

    Learnt nothing about repressing people’s free speech and how they don’t like it.

    Slow learner!

  70. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Sorry, Senator Rhiannon, you just don’t quite fit the image, somehow..

  71. Frank

    DR BG is right but if by some chance you got past that point then there is this.

    as A and B are equal, substitute all As with B’s:
    B+B=B
    continuing:

    There is no continuing after that, B is zero.

  72. DrBeauGan

    Not at all. I don’t expect the standard model to be able to furnish a comprehensive answer. It is rightly limited by its very nature. It’s not a question, therefore, of whether or not I buy or don’t buy the standard model, I’m just pressing the point of its explanatory limitation.

    I don’t have the faintest idea what you mean by that. I should have thought that saying that the standard model treats the origin of the universe as a singularity which started space-time and is therefore different from what happens within space-time subsequently is pretty clear.

  73. Tel

    Not at all. I don’t expect the standard model to be able to furnish a comprehensive answer. It is rightly limited by its very nature. It’s not a question, therefore, of whether or not I buy or don’t buy the standard model, I’m just pressing the point of its explanatory limitation.

    That sounds a lot like saying “There is no absolute truth”.

    Once we get into approximate truth, well… the Earth is approximately flat, and approximately round, and (if you are a mountain climber) also approximately triangular.

  74. cohenite

    Your argument is essentially 2*0= 1*0 therefore dividing by zero, 2=1. But it has been dressed up in algebra to conceal the swindle.

    Yeah, as bullshit goes it’s only pigeon poop. But hey maths isn’t pure. ie:

    If one man can build a house in 7 days, then 7 men can build it 1 day, 168 men can build it in one hour and 10080 in one minute. What’s more Zeno’s arrow is still travelling.

  75. DrBeauGan

    Frank
    #2787928, posted on August 13, 2018 at 6:09 pm
    DR BG is right but if by some chance you got past that point then there is this.

    as A and B are equal, substitute all As with B’s:
    B+B=B
    continuing:

    There is no continuing after that, B is zero.

    If you feel that a rule banning division by zero is oppressive and decide to ignore it, then you discover rather rapidly that there is only one number, viz. zero.

    For any number n, n *0 = 0*0= 0.
    Dividing by zero in your uninhibited way,
    n =0.

    This makes counting pointless.

    Now you can see why we have a ban on dividing by zero.

  76. DrBeauGan

    If one man can build a house in 7 days, then 7 men can build it 1 day, 168 men can build it in one hour and 10080 in one minute. What’s more Zeno’s arrow is still travelling.

    Pure mathematics is pure, applied mathematics is dirty. Well known fact.

    That’s applied mathematics. 😊

  77. Confused Old Misfit

    cohenite
    #2787908, posted on August 13, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    Love it!

  78. Frank

    If you feel that a rule banning division by zero is oppressive and decide to ignore it, then you discover rather rapidly that there is only one number, viz. zero.

    Erm, calculus and cough cough, taking derivatives?

    Runs away snickering before it starts.

  79. Geriatric Mayfly

    Moscow’s gone a bit funny, ditto Beijing. Mizzzz Rhiannon has few choices these days, if in her retirement she feels the urge to leisure herself further in pursuit of the sunlit uplands. Venezuela springs immediately to mind as a vibrant centre of adult learning, and just across the waters lies Cuba, whenever she feels like a well earned break. She’ll be fighting on the streets there for a decent meal a day. And as for a new prescriptions for those Corey Worthington ™ spectacles, they might be available at millions of Bolivars a pair, even with several zeros crossed out.

  80. bundyrum

    Hey Scooby…St George here….any chance you can sell that Audi & send me a cheque….i have a hot tip for an ASX share….keep it to yourself though….it is for Sydney Airport.
    You being a guru should i invest in the Turkisk Lira too?

  81. Snoopy

    In line with our pledge to the community, we are committed to providing local
    employment and business opportunities and have a clear goal of building to 40% Aboriginal employment within eight years of operations.’

    How many years before they begin citing ‘labour market failure’?

  82. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Moscow’s gone a bit funny, ditto Beijing. Mizzzz Rhiannon has few choices these days, if in her retirement she feels the urge to leisure herself further in pursuit of the sunlit uplands. Venezuela springs immediately to mind as a vibrant centre of adult learning, and just across the waters lies Cuba, whenever she feels like a well earned break

    I’d pay good money to have the frightbat dumped, in a Communist shithole, minus her passport and documentation, and no way of ever getting out of there.

  83. Makka

    For those interested in how Trump’s Dossier came into being, an exhaustive technical analysis and presentation of facts. Astonishing. Alexander Downer’s links are in there.

    https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2018/03/17/the-mechanics-of-deception/

  84. Rae

    She now believes her cancer was caused by glyphosate, the most commonly used herbicide in the world.

    Sure it wasn’t due to paint? The IARC has classified titanium pigment as a Group 2B carcinogen. Is her house painted, her car, her tractor? Has she ever used sunscreen? Has she eaten cheese, or brushed her teeth with toothpaste? Has she ever done any home renovation?

    Disingenuous of you. She has/had non-Hodgkin lymphoma for which exposure to glyphosate has been linked. You left out “Has she been a smoker?” which is a standard question asked in relation to all cancers.

    Reference to an Oncologist, rather than a Haematologist, suggests she was already in Stage 4 at diagnosis.

  85. Farmer Gez

    Twelve years after publishing a landmark study that turned tens of thousands of parents around the world against the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine because of an implied link between vaccinations and autism, The Lancet has retracted the paper.

    Lady farmer said she got cancer from glyphosate.
    Quite a few doctors said kids got autism from vaccines.
    Correlation is not necessarily causation.

  86. None

    If this is the case, then the AFP have been investigating a domestic violence allegation for four months without speaking to the alleged perpetrator.

    Just what exactly do these bumbling dickheads do all day?

    if that is the case the AFP have overstepped the bounds of their jurisdiction full stop domestic violence is a state police affair.
    Basically Malcolm Turnbull shut his mouth off and got it terribly wrong so wrong rep famed a Victoria Cross winner and pervert the course of justice.

  87. H B Bear

    NSW Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon, aka Lee Brown and Lee O’Gorman, has finally unseated her ample bum from the red leather for the last time and has vowed to “continue the fight in the streets”.

    Doris Bagshawe was never going to just retire to a country dacha like some member of the bourgeoisie like Red Kezza or Phatty Adams.

  88. Top Ender

    Change.org petition for Emma Husar ranks up a lousy 308 signatures.

    Written up by someone with a doubtful grasp of English, and an even more doubtful grasp of logic.

  89. Top Ender

    Canberra Labor MP Gai Brodtmann has announced she will not be nominating for preselection for the next election.

    Ms Brodtmann, who has been the Member for Canberra since 2010, said she had made the decision for “entirely personal reasons”….Ms Brodtmann is a former diplomat, and is married to Nine Network Political Editor Chris Uhlmann.

    Oz

  90. Des Deskperson

    ‘if that is the case the AFP have overstepped the bounds of their jurisdiction full stop domestic violence is a state police affair.’

    The AFP is contracted to the ACT government to provide community and criminal policing for the Territory, so it could investigate such a case.

    .

  91. Tel

    Erm, calculus and cough cough, taking derivatives?

    Runs away snickering before it starts.

    Derivatives get a Papal dispensation because they are not exactly zero.

    Strictly speaking the limit of a ratio as it gets CLOSE to zero (another of those approximation thingies, but a very special case).

  92. Baldrick

    Correlation is not necessarily causation.

    Exactly Farmer Gez, but some people are too stupid to realise that.

  93. Eyrie

    “Illicit. If A=B, this is an attempt to divide by zero which is not permitted.”
    before that: subtract B^2 from both sides:
    A^2-B^2=AB-B^2
    This is where 0=0

  94. Farmer Gez

    Exactly Farmer Gez, but some people are too stupid to realise that.

    That would be Rae.

  95. DrBeauGan

    Runs away snickering before it starts.

    You should know better. That is a very wicked calumny. When you calculate (x+h)^2 – x^2 and divide by h, to get (2hx + h^2 )/h, which is 2x +h, you assume h is not zero. It’s then that you take the limit as h -> 0. Not before.

    You will go to hell for saying otherwise. A special mathematician’s hell where you have to spend all your time arguing with philosophers and Candy.

  96. Tel

    If one man can build a house in 7 days, then 7 men can build it 1 day, 168 men can build it in one hour and 10080 in one minute.

    That’s not mathematics, that’s a presumption of linearity.

  97. DrBeauGan

    Eyrie
    #2787957, posted on August 13, 2018 at 6:57 pm
    “Illicit. If A=B, this is an attempt to divide by zero which is not permitted.”
    before that: subtract B^2 from both sides:
    A^2-B^2=AB-B^2
    This is where 0=0

    True, but there is nothing wrong with this. The result is perfectly correct. No illicit step has been taken.

  98. Cactus;

    If I found myself in that situation I think about what I would do. Is there a sharp object I could source and secretly hold onto. How quickly could I without warning going from docile sitting to explode into purposeful rage, spring a surprise and go for the juggler. Would others follow my lead? Is it practical to whisper a plan to another big beefy guy? Should I go out with a Swiss army knife on my person so I can effect such a plan?

    Cactus, a hot coffee with six sugars will initially blind, then the sugary solution sticks eyelids together. Favoured weapon of gentlemen in gaols.

  99. Boambee John

    The infantilisation of Australia continues.

    Reading the instructions on my bowel screen test kit. This is aimed at people aged 50 to 74, but does not use the words urine or faeces. Instead we are told to “wee” first, then flush, then collect our “poo” sample.

    Can I assume that the FOBT will soon become the POBT?

  100. calli

    All this maths talk…

    I was sucked in by the first paragraph. Is he right? Is that why you’re enjoying yourselves so much?

  101. Mitch M.

    Sure it wasn’t due to paint? The IARC has classified titanium pigment as a Group 2B carcinogen. Is her house painted, her car, her tractor? Has she ever used sunscreen? Has she eaten cheese, or brushed her teeth with toothpaste? Has she ever done any home renovation?

    I was inclined to think that way about it but before posting this decided to check to see if glyphosate and\or the relevant commercial products demonstrate mutagenic capacity. They do and the human cell line study found this at levels way below the accepted level in animal feed. This is found in animal studies and human cell culture studies, and a study of farm workers in Italy which found transient DNA damage in lymphocytes. One animal study found effects on Erythrocytes(red blood cells) . So I recant, there is evidence that it can act as a mutagen. Given a number of findings of the presence of glyphosate in human beings that is a concern.

  102. DrBeauGan

    Eyrie
    #2787957, posted on August 13, 2018 at 6:57 pm
    “Illicit. If A=B, this is an attempt to divide by zero which is not permitted.”
    before that: subtract B^2 from both sides:
    A^2-B^2=AB-B^2
    This is where 0=0

    If you put A=B =1, this is the statement that 1-1 = 1-1, which is true.
    In the next step doing the factorisaion you get
    2*0 =1*0, which is also true.

    It’s the next step that is wrong.

  103. Des Deskperson

    “Canberra Labor MP Gai Brodtmann has announced she will not be nominating for preselection for the next election.”

    A bit of a surprise. Brodtmann has no kids, but:

    “My decision has been made for entirely personal reasons,” Ms Brodtmann said in a statement, referring to her mother Faye Anderson, who turned 79 last week.

    “My mother is now one of the reasons why I am not nominating. By her own admission, Mum has years not decades left. I want to be there for those years.” has said she wants more to spend more time with her family with her”.

    Odd, then, that she’s not retiring immediately. On the other hand, there has been considerable – and vicious – bickering within the ACT ALP Branch about who gets nominated for new the third ACT seat of Bean. A new, parallel vacancy in the seat of Canberra would certainly ease that pressure.

    Apart from being Mrs Uhlmann, she is probably best known for standing behind Shorten’s left shoulder during media conferences, looking either elated or grim, depending in the issue. I once saw her mistakenly kiss the same baby twice while attempting to butter up her constituents . She chronically fills my letterbox with crap.

    She seems to have spent only a few years as a ‘diplomat’ – she started out in AGs. According to Wikipedia, “Brodtmann lost her position at DFAT in 1996 when the incoming federal government of John Howard cut 15,000 permanent public servant positions in the ACT”, so she is unlikely to have been vital to Australia’s foreign relations.

  104. calli

    Brodtman is using the Baird escape plan, complete with heart-strings smokescreen.

    Expect her to pop up with a nice wad of directorships or the socialist equivalent.

  105. Boambee John

    Ah test pattern, good to see you.

    You may have missed my question yesterday.

    At what stage will Australia’s indigenous polulation realise that the import of large numbers of middle easterners and African-Australians will be to their detriment. The white activists (aka parasites) who leech off the indigenous will move onto the middle easterners and Africans once they reach a critical mass.

    Muslims are already top of the victim totem pole, and Africans are not far behind. They both like being supported, and the $33 billion that currently goes to indigenous support will be an attractive target.

  106. Viva

    The thing about Turnbull is that he has not only proven himself to be a chump, but has shown an uncanny knack to bring even capable Conservative politicians down to his level. Remember how effective Morrison was in stopping the boats and compare with what a dud he’s been since Turnbull’s been in charge. Frydenburgh was at least mediocre before he came under Turnbull’s influence.

    The above comment from a Bolt blog reader puts into words what I have been thinking for a while

    The entire team practically has lost what credibility they may have once had

    Turnbull has trashed the future leadership chances of his colleagues through their association with him

    With the exception of one holdout of course – his nemesis Tony Abbott

    Yes I know there are those who will say Abbott trashed his own leadership chances himself

    I think he is beginning to redeem himself

  107. Farmer Gez

    Given a number of findings of the presence of glyphosate in human beings that is a concern.

    That would be metabolites of glyphosate not the compound itself.
    Epidemiological studies do not preclude other chemicals which farm workers are also exposed to. It’s very hard to isolate exposure.
    Be aware that the next best chemical for a broad spectrum knockdown is diquat. Acutely toxic.

  108. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2787965, posted on August 13, 2018 at 7:08 pm
    All this maths talk…

    I was sucked in by the first paragraph. Is he right? Is that why you’re enjoying yourselves so much?

    That’s a part of it, Calli. Not for me a very accurate description, but the Poincaré quote is right. Yes, we are having fun. Childish fun, I admit, but hey, fun is fun.

    Finding the fallacy in an apparently logical argument that seems to prove 2=1 is more like working out whodunnit in a detective story. Balance is restored to the universe. We can rest easy 2 isn’t equal to 1 after all. We never thought it was, but seeing the exact location of the con gives a sense of all being right with the world again. 😊

  109. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Apparently the ATO can violate people’s privacy with total impunity.

    ATO cracks down on short-term rental tax dodgers

    An extensive data matching program launched by the ATO will examine online platform sharing sites for the data of approximately 190,000 Australians and then compare it to the deductions made in their returns.

  110. Top Ender

    Anyone notice whether Husar was sitting behind Shorten today in the House?

  111. Frank

    Viva,

    As an alternative to that, it seems possible that Abbott was pulling Morrison’s string in the background and that was why he looked good. He seemed to keep Bishop on a short leash too. Perhaps they were always chumps who came into full bloom when the restraints where off rather than contenders that got spoiled by association with Turnbull. Or both.

  112. Snoopy

    The Ottoman Empire 2.0 seems as much of a dog as Windows 8.

  113. Mitch M.

    Epidemiological studies do not preclude other chemicals which farm workers are also exposed to. It’s very hard to isolate exposure.

    That was my first thought before I decided to check. The cell line and some of the animal studies preclude that p0ssibility. I’m not going to read those studies but the one which concerned me was the human cell line exposure study which had very low concentrations of glyphosate.

  114. BrettW

    Testpattern,
    You have twice made references to Ben Roberts-Smith VC and memorabilia.

    In your first you seemed to be suggesting BRS memorabilia might be benefiting from the recent allegations. Simply laughable.

    Then earlier you posted :
    “It’s an open secret that a certain media mogul is a serious collector of war memorabilia and uses his outlets to add market value to his errr ‘hobby.’

    Now that would be Kerry Stokes. It may have escaped your notice, what with you being more interested in 1800’s type stuff, that Stokes has a habit of buying VC sets and then giving them to the War Memorial.
    This from a Daily Telegraph 2011 article :

    “It was the fourth VC acquired by Mr Stokes, a member of the war memorial council, and donated to the memorial. All up, he’s spent more than $3 million on medals”.

    Do you have any evidence or examples of how he uses his outlets to add value to his hobby”?

    I suggest your comment is total BS.

    Hate to trigger you but another well known billionaire, Gina, is a great supporter of the SAS fund that supports SAS and their family members. She buys memorabilia at vastly inflated amounts purely to benefit their funds.

    By the way check out the photo of Sheffield Resources staff on their web page. 15 staff : 12 men and 3 women and all white. They are the guys doing the Thunderbird project.

    On and before I forget. What are your thoughts on the Aboriginal “men” posting vile comments about Jacinta Price ? Details on Bolt page. Let me guess, all due to colonisation and white man influence.

  115. Viva

    Perhaps they were always chumps who came into full bloom when the restraints where off rather than contenders that got spoiled by association with Turnbull. Or both.

    Perhaps so. But regardless, Frydenberg has ruined himself

  116. Farmer Gez

    That was my first thought before I decided to check. The cell line and some of the animal studies preclude that p0ssibility. I’m not going to read those studies but the one which concerned me was the human cell line exposure study which had very low concentrations of glyphosate.

    Are those embryonic cell lines Mitch?
    I’m pretty sure I’ve seen these studies and read the critiques.

  117. Snoopy

    ABC 7.30 takes aim at AMP Super. AMP been blessed with NAB hogging the limelight for the last 6 days.

    Just four days to go, unless the commission is extended.

  118. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    On and before I forget. What are your thoughts on the Aboriginal “men” posting vile comments about Jacinta Price ? Details on Bolt page. Let me guess, all due to colonisation and white man influence.

    This is the Cat. Always escalate.

  119. Eyrie

    “If you put A=B =1, this is the statement that 1-1 = 1-1, which is true.”
    1-1=0 is what I said. You can choose any value for A and B that you like, if they are equal and you subtract them you get zero.

  120. calli

    That’s it for me then.

    Exposure to glypho, asbestos, 2nd hand cigarette smoke, baby powder and sunscreen. Who knows what else.

    Looks like I’m going to die.

  121. John Constantine

    Anybody want to run a pool to bet on who will call for roundup to be banned in Australia first?

    Citizen turnfailure or Citizen shortfilth?.

    We honestly can’t tell, it just comes down to the polls.

    [ or their united nations doing a save the world from roundup convention]

    Comrades.

  122. DrBeauGan

    Eyrie
    #2787985, posted on August 13, 2018 at 7:41 pm
    “If you put A=B =1, this is the statement that 1-1 = 1-1, which is true.”
    1-1=0 is what I said. You can choose any value for A and B that you like, if they are equal and you subtract them you get zero.

    Yes, but these are true statements and follow legitimately from what has gone before. There is no fallacy in showing that 0=0.

  123. Mitch M.

    Are those embryonic cell lines Mitch?

    Human liver HepG2 cells. It may still be the adjuvants, I’ve read a number of studies highlighting issues with those. It’s difficult, all too often studies are designed to create an effect and the methodology needs to be carefully studied. Eg: the below abstract does not indicate controls and that is a big problem. If you are interested you can request the full study at here. Have a look at the extracts, the risk may in conjunction with Epstein Barr Virus infection which is also associated with lymphoma! Tricky teasing all that out!

    Toxicology. 2009 Aug 21;262(3):184-91. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2009.06.006. Epub 2009 Jun 17.
    Glyphosate-based herbicides are toxic and endocrine disruptors in human cell lines.
    Gasnier C1, Dumont C, Benachour N, Clair E, Chagnon MC, Séralini GE.
    Author information

    1
    University of Caen, Institute of Biology, Lab. Biochemistry EA2608, Esplanade de la Paix, 14032 Caen cedex, France.
    Abstract
    Glyphosate-based herbicides are the most widely used across the world; they are commercialized in different formulations. Their residues are frequent pollutants in the environment. In addition, these herbicides are spread on most eaten transgenic plants, modified to tolerate high levels of these compounds in their cells. Up to 400 ppm of their residues are accepted in some feed. We exposed human liver HepG2 cells, a well-known model to study xenobiotic toxicity, to four different formulations and to glyphosate, which is usually tested alone in chronic in vivo regulatory studies. We measured cytotoxicity with three assays (Alamar Blue, MTT, ToxiLight), plus genotoxicity (comet assay), anti-estrogenic (on ERalpha, ERbeta) and anti-androgenic effects (on AR) using gene reporter tests. We also checked androgen to estrogen conversion by aromatase activity and mRNA. All parameters were disrupted at sub-agricultural doses with all formulations within 24h. These effects were more dependent on the formulation than on the glyphosate concentration. First, we observed a human cell endocrine disruption from 0.5 ppm on the androgen receptor in MDA-MB453-kb2 cells for the most active formulation (R400), then from 2 ppm the transcriptional activities on both estrogen receptors were also inhibited on HepG2. Aromatase transcription and activity were disrupted from 10 ppm. Cytotoxic effects started at 10 ppm with Alamar Blue assay (the most sensitive), and DNA damages at 5 ppm. A real cell impact of glyphosate-based herbicides residues in food, feed or in the environment has thus to be considered, and their classifications as carcinogens/mutagens/reprotoxics is discussed.
    PMID: 19539684 DOI: 10.1016/j.tox.2009.06.006

  124. Farmer Gez

    Glyphosate won’t be banned.
    The US still has it patented but elsewhere it’s a free for all and the Chinese make shitloads of it.

  125. Frank

    Perhaps so. But regardless, Frydenberg has ruined himself.

    Yes, true. Are there any that haven’t?

  126. DrBeauGan

    Nor in showing that 2*0=1*0. This is true and follows from what has gone before. It’s only when you cancel the zeros that you commit a crime. To use the terminology I tried on Calli.

  127. Dave in Marybrook

    The Chinese make ALL of it, Gez.

  128. DrBeauGan

    There you go, Calli. That algebra showing that 2°1 had a monstrous crime hidden in it. The fun is in identifying the criminal act. It turned out to be a concealed way of dividing by zero, a capital offence in mathematics.

  129. Frank

    How about this old saw:

    1 = sqrt(1) = sqrt((-1)^2) = sqrt(-1) * sqrt(-1) = i * i = -1.

    And yes, I know, just being a prat.

  130. BrettW

    The so called domestic violence complaint against B R-S VC is interesting to say the least.

    I note he indicated he called off the relationship a week after that Canberra dinner. You can bet she only made the complaint after that.

    This complaint is totally seperate to the ADF SAS investigation. Either it was domestic violence or it was not. He was not in the ADF at the time.

    Based on what RS said in the Oz there were multiple senior officers and AFP outside the event who saw her under the influence of alcohol and if I recall correctly the Police saw her fall outside. If the AFP/ACT cops have not even interviewed him how can they properly investigate the complaint ? Due to the people involved (ie. RS and top levels of ADF) you would expect the Police to be making sure this was being properly investigated and at a high level of supervision.

    I also note Chris Masters was all class when joking that Nine have inherited the defamation case by acquiring Fairfax (see todays Oz).

    If Fairfax know so much perhaps they could let us know when the DV report was made. I believe the so called victim comes from a legal background so she would know an early report is important both in terms of her credibility and any possible medical evidence.

    She thought she had hooked one of the most admired men in Oz and dare I say it handsome. Then she drinks to much at an important function and RS calls it off soon after. It seems OK to slur RS’s reputation but I guess we can not know her identity and if no case at the end may never know. Meanwhile the damage is done.

  131. DrBeauGan

    1 = sqrt(1) = sqrt((-1)^2) = sqrt(-1) * sqrt(-1) = i * i = -1.

    There are two square roots of 1, and you are choosing the one that suits you. Likewise two square roots of -1. You don’t get to pick the one you want. You have to go through all cases.

  132. calli

    It was Miss Scarlett in the scullery with the dagger, Dr Beau.

    Everyone knows that.

  133. Farmer Gez

    Thanks Mitch. I’ll have a look.
    The problem with these studies is that people are rarely exposed to the chemical in the same way that cell lines are.
    Additionally our APVMA and USFDA are well aware of the studies and have evaluated the studies. No change in current registrations resulted.
    It would have to be a giant conspiracy of multiple government agencies for Monsanto to be able to hide or withhold adverse studies. If Monsanto did hide info then it would be a massive scandal with company destroying consequences. Would they do something quite so stupid?

  134. DrBeauGan

    Basically, the fallacy is
    1= √1
    The true statement is
    1 is a √1.

  135. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2788002, posted on August 13, 2018 at 8:00 pm
    It was Miss Scarlett in the scullery with the dagger, Dr Beau.

    Everyone knows that.

    Different crime, Calli, and not nearly as serious.

  136. Confused Old Misfit

    Scientists have detected a ‘mysterious radio signal’ in space with a frequency nearly 200 megahertz lower than any other radio burst ever detected. Dr. Hugh Ross shares his thoughts on where this signal may be coming from and what it could mean.

  137. Dave in Marybrook

    Don’t try that three-card switch around here, Gez.
    The question is not, “When did the Evil Corporation start covering up the evidence?”
    It’s not even, “Is there a cover-up?”
    It’s simply, “Is there reasonable evidence?”
    And the answer is…no.
    Hasn’t changed.

  138. DrBeauGan

    If 2=1, then Beaugy is God almighty.

    The above is a true statement. I can prove it.

    So you see that it’s much more serious than a mere dead body in the scullery.

  139. Mitch M.

    Additionally our APVMA and USFDA are well aware of the studies and have evaluated the studies. No change in current registrations resulted.
    It would have to be a giant conspiracy of multiple government agencies for Monsanto to be able to hide or withhold adverse studies. If Monsanto did hide info then it would be a massive scandal with company destroying consequences. Would they do something quite so stupid?

    Government agencies make mistakes so I don’t care about that. Monsanto hasn’t concealed these findings. I have a different view than most because I’m prepared to accept a trade-off. Every technology has risks but obviously there must be limits. Given the ubiquity of glyphosate I’d see to see marked rises in the relevant incidences to make an argument against it. Oh damn checking again(you need to be registered to read this site but that is free and it is a very good site)

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/577340
    During this period, 87,166 patients were diagnosed with NHL; of this group, 2459 (2.8%) had confirmed mantle cell lymphoma. They noted that the age-adjusted incidence rate for mantle cell lymphoma was lowest in 1992 (0.27 per 100,000), and highest in 2004 (0.69 per 100,000), the last year for which data were available. The 2004 rate was nearly 2.5 times higher than the 1992 rate.
    “The cause of this remarkable increase in the age-adjusted incidence rate in [mantle cell lymphoma] over a 13-year period is unknown,” they write. The higher rate may not be due to improvements in detection or in the pathologic recognition, since the increase is primarily seen in stage 4 disease. The observed increase was also unlikely due to changes in the diagnostic criteria, as that remained relatively unchanged between 1992 and 2004.

  140. Snoopy

    Ben Roberts-Smith hasn’t denied having an affair with a lawyer.

  141. DrBeauGan

    Could ‘mysterious radio signals’ prove the existence of God?

    No. Confused, this is really, really silly.

  142. Rae

    Correlation is not necessarily causation

    Indeed. And we did deal with that in yesterdays discussion of the Monsanto case. I do like your rider of “not necessarily”, same as yesterdays commenter.

  143. cohenite

    If one man can build a house in 7 days, then 7 men can build it 1 day, 168 men can build it in one hour and 10080 in one minute.

    That’s not mathematics, that’s a presumption of linearity.

    Hence Zeno’s arrow.

  144. Farmer Gez

    Yes Dave but withholding evidence is the line that Robert Kennedy Jnr is running and he’s getting plenty of support the left liberal media.
    He cares not a jot for science but is running the same game used to get Trump.
    What are you hiding?
    Kennedy knows the public cannot comprehend toxicology but they love conspiracies involving big corporates.
    This is a political game.

  145. Confused Old Misfit

    But, but but, there’s a Doctor on TV who says they might!!! And anyway you’re only a blog doctor!

  146. John Constantine

    Glyphosate is off patent and cheap and low margin/low profit to make and sell.

    The massive upside in profit for the looting cartels if roundup is disposed of, and new full patent, closed loop systems replace it worldwide could be billions a year.

    Having to be trained and accredited to be able to subscribe for ’roundup-replacement system’ paying an upfront fee per hectare each year, plant it or not.

    Buy controlled patented seed for an upfront fortune, regardless of how much rain falls.

    Spray it with the full patent massively profitable to sell chemical that replaces roundup.

    Big Crony Law and Big Crony State and Big Crony Agribusiness can see the sky is the limit for profit boosts once glyphosate goes,

    Comrades.

  147. Rae

    I was inclined to think that way about it but before posting this decided to check to see if glyphosate and\or the relevant commercial products demonstrate mutagenic capacity. They do and the human cell line study found this at levels way below the accepted level in animal feed. This is found in animal studies and human cell culture studies, and a study of farm workers in Italy which found transient DNA damage in lymphocytes. One animal study found effects on Erythrocytes(red blood cells) . So I recant, there is evidence that it can act as a mutagen. Given a number of findings of the presence of glyphosate in human beings that is a concern.

    Well done. But, posting something that in any way supports a comment from me is unlikely to be in your interests. You should now prepare yourself for an assault from the resident Twitter roach and Farmer Gez.

  148. Bruce of Newcastle

    So I recant, there is evidence that it can act as a mutagen.

    Mitch – you missed my message.

    The chemical compounds in diesel and petrol most certainly include mutagens in high concentration. The difference is that no one will discuss such things because the car is an Australian’s mobile castle. The difference with Roundup is that it too is a mild carcinogen (like dirt, sunlight and air) but the Greens have been after Monsanto for decades. Money is the root of all kinds of evil, hence the lure of money brings out the lawyers, who are well acquainted with all kinds of evil.

    My observation about titanium pigment is that it is ubiquitous and no one ever discusses the health aspects of it, if any. No one wants to live in an unpainted house or drive an unpainted car. Yet they cheerfully get hot under the collar about PFAS (which was again in the local news tonight, with $1.5 mill being given to UniNcl for a stupid study). PFAS is magic: a doorway into near-infinite money courtesy of the Australian Department of Defence.

    Follow the money and you will find shonky studies, lawyers, greed and scientific hypocrisy in huge amounts.

    I’m surprised that the climate bedwetters haven’t latched onto the carcinogens in petrol and diesel yet, as leverage against the oil companies. But I suspect they all like their cars too much.

  149. testpattern

    ‘They are the guys doing the Thunderbird project’

    Well gosh I would never have known. They still have problems with Native Title and the KLC –

    “Give me a call because things are going to get worse,” Bergmann said in one voicemail message to the chairman of Sheffield Resources, an ASX-listed mining company.

    “Your staff have been undermining me personally all over Broome and the business community in Perth. The relationship between Sheffield and traditional owners are going to turn to a new level. Since you put Bruce McFadzean [Sheffield CEO] on board, the relationship has gone from 10 to 0.”

    https://www.theage.com.au/wrong-skin/native-entitlement-wheeling-and-dealing-in-the-kimberley-20180724-p4ztd2.html

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52f45e22e4b0c5c8957db852/t/5b71384e562fa71f5e55fd6b/1534146641739/Public+Statement+KRED+response+to+Baker+Podcast+FINAL+.pdf

    Most of the vitriol aimed at Price is from indigenous women in Alice. She and her family dish it out too. This is just NT politics. The local paper covers it well.

  150. Rae

    Brodtman is using the Baird escape plan, complete with heart-strings smokescreen.

    Expect her to pop up with a nice wad of directorships or the socialist equivalent.

    Sure. Who knows, she might even pop up as Chairman of Channel Nein.

  151. cohenite

    Basically, the fallacy is
    1= √1
    The true statement is
    1 is a √1.

    1 is the only √1
    0 is the only √0
    *workings*
    Therefore √1 = √0

  152. DrBeauGan

    Confused Old Misfit
    #2788015, posted on August 13, 2018 at 8:20 pm
    But, but but, there’s a Doctor on TV who says they might!!! And anyway you’re only a blog doctor!

    True. It doesn’t count, and anyway, I could be lying.

    Are you trying to outdo Alex Jones? Or Anne? Best of luck with that.

  153. Farmer Gez

    You’re MO is always the same Rae.
    I haven’t attacked Mitch at all. It’s not about you.

  154. Confused Old Misfit

    I could be lying.

    But but but you would never do a thing like that and who is this Jones boy?

  155. DrBeauGan

    1 is the only √1

    False. -1 is another.

    0 is the only √0

    True.

    One out of two isn’t bad except in mathematics.

  156. DrBeauGan

    who is this Jones boy?

    American version of Anne. But not as easy to look at.

  157. Boambee John

    Calli at 1942

    Looks like I’m going to die.

    The most dangerous thing anyone can do is be conceived.

    Good statistical data collected over a very long period indicate that death is almost inevitable.

  158. DrBeauGan

    American version of Anne. But not as easy to look at.

    I’m guessing here. But if she is as ugly as Alex Jones, Anne has real problems.

  159. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Scare for Labor as Husar rethinks resigning

    Brad Norington
    ASSOCIATE EDITOR
    @BradNorington
    14 minutes ago August 13, 2018

    Senior NSW Labor officials fear federal MP Emma Husar may be reconsidering her decision not to recontest her seat at the next election, buoyed by the findings of a ­report on staff bullying and harassment allegations that there was “no basis for her to resign from the Australian parliament”.

    A possible change of heart by Ms Husar, who announced last week she would bow out, two days before report findings on her conduct were released, would pose a dilemma for the NSW ALP’s head office, which had made it clear she needed to depart “her way or their way”.

    A sudden reversal could also create a political headache for Bill Shorten, who appears to publicly maintain his support for the first-time MP amid allegations she mistreated as many as 22 staff. However, he is believed to back efforts to ensure she quits

    The NSW ALP has already flagged calling nominations for Ms Husar’s seat of Lindsay in Sydney’s west, but there are no obvious candidates to replace her.

    Despite Ms Husar announcing last week that she would not recontest her seat, she has not yet submitted a letter to party head office to confirm she is relinquishing her endorsement for Lindsay, and she remains the officially anointed candidate.

    Unless NSW ALP general secretary Kaila Murnain and other top party officers were to accept Ms Husar reversing her decision, their only recourse to force her out would be formal steps to dis­endorse her as the party candidate.

    Such a move could precipitate a legal battle six months before the federal election, if lawyers for Ms Husar ran a case arguing the party’s internal investigation into her conduct by barrister John Whelan had found “no basis” for her resignation.

    A well-placed Labor source told The Australian: “Party officials are racking their brains about what to do if she decides to run. Unless they receive a letter from her saying otherwise, she remains the candidate, and they can’t do anything about it.

    Breaking news, from the Oz

  160. Dave in Marybrook

    It’s in the Karoly playbook-
    “Big Tobacco/Pharma/Farmag/Fossil Fuels knew all along that their products were killers, but they buried the evidence to protect their profits.”

  161. DrBeauGan

    Makka
    #2788032, posted on August 13, 2018 at 8:41 pm
    Roy Morgan estimates Australian unemployed and under employed at 10%

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7683-roy-morgan-australian-unemployment-july-2018-201808100237

    Throw in the makework jobs in the APS and the various commissions and it must be thribble that.

  162. Rae

    If Monsanto did hide info then it would be a massive scandal with company destroying consequences. Would they do something quite so stupid?

    Sure they would.

    Brent Wisner, a lawyer for Mr. Johnson, said in a statement that jurors had seen for the first time internal company documents “proving that Monsanto has known for decades that glyphosate and specifically Roundup could cause cancer.”

  163. Mitch M.

    The chemical compounds in diesel and petrol most certainly include mutagens in high concentration. The difference is that no one will discuss such things because the car is an Australian’s mobile castle.

    No I didn’t because I specifically mentioned that all technologies carry risk and the task is to quantify that risk to determine if it is acceptable. No-one bothers to mention how many household items are constantly releasing toxins. There are studies which highlight indoor air is often more polluted than outdoor air.

    The difference with Roundup is that it too is a mild carcinogen (like dirt, sunlight and air) but the Greens have been after Monsanto for decades. Money is the root of all kinds of evil, hence the lure of money brings out the lawyers, who are well acquainted with all kinds of evil.

    How do you know it is not a risk worthy of analysis? Have you read the relevant studies or are merely making an assumption? I’m not that worried about pesticides and herbicides but I’m not one to dismiss possible risks simply because of lawyers and money interests. He lure of money is sufficient that many corporations and governments have deliberately concealed data, done dodgy studies, and created offshoot organisations to fight against their opponents in the appearance of being independent. Some Big Pharma companies have been found guilty of this and some chemical manufacturers.

    Rae Farmer Gez has been perfectly reasonable.

  164. Farmer Gez

    Trump’s trade war on Turkey and the collapse of the lira will have interesting ramifications on the grain trade. Turkey is a hub for pulse grain trade around the Mediterranean and through to the Indian subcontinent zone.
    Home production may be easier to trade but onselling will be a killer. Erdogan is a real fool.

  165. DrBeauGan

    How do you know it is not a risk worthy of analysis? Have you read the relevant studies or are merely making an assumption? I’m not that worried about pesticides and herbicides but I’m not one to dismiss possible risks simply because of lawyers and money interests. He lure of money is sufficient that many corporations and governments have deliberately concealed data, done dodgy studies, and created offshoot organisations to fight against their opponents in the appearance of being independent. Some Big Pharma companies have been found guilty of this and some chemical manufacturers.

    Jeez, you can’t trust anyone, can yer?

  166. H B Bear

    “Canberra Labor MP Gai Brodtmann has announced she will not be nominating for preselection for the next election.”

    Since Mr Gai Brodtmann became the New Jabba I imagine she has decided the $200k plus allowances isn’t worth the aggravation of dealing with the good burghers of the ACT. A perfectly understandable decision, particularly if there aren’t any kids on the scene.

    Luckily Mr Brodtmann is one of the few ALPBC staff co-op with any market value in commercial media.

  167. Snoopy

    Lawyer Brent Wisener wouldn’t be capable of misrepresenting the truth I suppose.

  168. Snoopy

    Or indeed misrepresenting the evidence.

  169. Dave in Marybrook

    Mitch M, you’re backloading a conspiracy theory into settled science.
    The evidence that glyphosate is perfectly safe is in. 97% of scientists agree.
    Oh, hang on…

  170. Top Ender

    The TRUTH….Why Modern Music Is Awful

  171. Farmer Gez

    Brent Wisner, a lawyer for Mr. Johnson, said in a statement that jurors had seen for the first time internal company documents “proving that Monsanto has known for decades that glyphosate and specifically Roundup could cause cancer.”

    Lawyer words and flatly denied by Monsanto.

  172. rickw

    He was already facing female genital mutilation charges for allegedly burning the genitals of a third woman with a branding iron sometime in 2016 at Newcastle West.

    Made the basic mistake of female genital mutilation while not being a muslim.

  173. Rae

    Rae Farmer Gez has been perfectly reasonable.

    With you. Yes.

    With me, not so much.

    And I see his friend the resident Twitter roach has gone silent on the matter in the face of your excellent research.

  174. Bruce in WA

    Well, as far as the Hornet went, today was a total WOFTAM. The wind just wouldn’t play nice and even at just 100 yards blew the little pills all over the shop; ALTHOUGH, during one brief lull, I managed to get a three-shot cloverleaf, barely over one calibre at its widest.

    As for the .223, the longer, closer to the lands rounds using the comparator proved quite accurate. Ten shots with 60-grain Sierra BTHP in under an inch — in windy conditions. Happy with that but still not satisfied … yet.

    As an aside, my bro had his Tikka .223 next to me, with the muzzle brake attached. As a result, even with custom-made earplugs, I am almost deaf in my right ear, have a splitting headache, and my tinnitus is screeching. Bloody muzzle brakes …

  175. Rae

    Lawyer Brent Wisener wouldn’t be capable of misrepresenting the truth I suppose.

    What’s to misrepresent? The statement is perfectly clear. I’ll repeat it for you:

    jurors had seen for the first time internal company documents “proving that Monsanto has known for decades that glyphosate and specifically Roundup could cause cancer

  176. Habib

    Life is a sexually-transmitted terminal disease.

  177. Rae

    Brent Wisner, a lawyer for Mr. Johnson, said in a statement that jurors had seen for the first time internal company documents “proving that Monsanto has known for decades that glyphosate and specifically Roundup could cause cancer.”

    Lawyer words and flatly denied by Monsanto.

    Happy for you to post a link to where Monsanto denied what Wisner said.

  178. Stimpson J. Cat

    F$cking Nerds Jesus Christ!
    Wake me up when it’s over.
    I’m going to watch the grass grow.

  179. cohenite

    1 is the only √1

    False. -1 is another.

    Ah, same as 0.

    √(-0) = 0

  180. mh

    Liberty Quote

    No border, no wall, no USA at all!

    – Antifa

  181. BrettW

    “Most of the vitriol aimed at Price is from indigenous women in Alice”.

    Notice how TP has not answered the question about the male abuse of a woman by identifiable males but even better twisted it and blamed it on the indigenous women !

    Much more important to go on about white men being nasty to Aboriginal men hundreds of years ago.

    Hey TP, any proof of your pathetic claims about Kerry Stokes ?

  182. Farmer Gez

    Happy for you to post a link to where Monsanto denied what Wisner said.

    SE Asian manager for Monsanto, a guy called Harvey Glick.
    ABC rural radio with Nicole Chvastek. She put that accusation directly to him.

  183. Boambee John

    Mitch M at 2048

    governments have deliberately concealed data

    BOM and CSIRO come on down!

  184. RobK

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/rural-news/2017-03-16/eu-chemical-regulator-declares-glyphosate-does-not-cause-cancer/8359016Glyphosate does not cause cancer: European Union chemical regulator

    ABC Rural

    By Clint Jasper

    Posted 16 March 2017 at 11:01

    The European Union’s chemical regulator has declared there is not enough evidence to say the popular weed killer glyphosate causes cancer.

    The European Chemical Agency’s (ECHA) Committee for Risk Assessment (RAC) said the chemical, a the main active ingredient in Monsanto’s RoundUp herbicide, and many other generic variations, caused serious eye damage and “is toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects”, and would remain classified as such.

    “RAC concluded that the available scientific evidence did not meet the criteria to classify glyphosate as a carcinogen, as a mutagen (causing genetics effects) or as toxic for reproduction,” the agency said in a statement release on Wednesday night, Australia time.

    The finding come after the EU’s food safety regulator made a similar finding in 2015.

    In the same year, the World Health Organisation’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) declared it was “probably carcinogenic”.

    European farmers feared losing the ability to use glyphosate herbicides, after European lawmakers nearly implemented a ban on its use.

    Greenpeace backed the ban, and in a statement the organisation’s EU accused the ECHA of sweeping “all evidence that glyphosate causes cancer under the carpet.”

    Late last year, The Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA) approved an application for grain growers to use glyphosate late on their feed or food grade barley crops, despite concern about trade implications from some sections of the grain and livestock industries.

    In response to the ECHA’s decision, German toxicologist, Professor Jan Hengstler from TU Dortmund said the conclusion was “scientifically justified”.

    “Both the available long-term studies in rats and mice as well as epidemiological data do not justify the conclusion that glyphosate is carcinogenic or mutagenic.

    “Under current conditions of use of glyphosate there is no increased cancer risk for humans.”

    Imperial College London’s professor of biochemical pharmacology, Professor Alan Boobis said the work was vital in forming good policy.

    “They have concluded that the totality of the evidence is that glyphosate should not be considered a human carcinogen.

    “It is important that such objective, independent and comprehensive assessments are available to help policy makers in reaching evidence-based decisions.”

  185. Snoopy

    He did exactly what Monsanto should have done. For two years, Séralini dripped Roundup into the drinking water of laboratory rats and fed them glyphosate-laden, genetically modified corn. What he found was alarming: Some of the animals developed kidney damage, while the females developed breast cancer at remarkably high rates.

    Damning evidence. LOL

  186. Boambee John

    My Repetitive Scrolling Injury was getting better, but it has really suffered over the past few days.

  187. Rae

    Happy for you to post a link to where Monsanto denied what Wisner said.

    SE Asian manager for Monsanto, a guy called Harvey Glick.
    ABC rural radio with Nicole Chvastek. She put that accusation directly to him.

    This is what she had to put to him and what he denied:

    jurors had seen for the first time internal company documents “proving that Monsanto has known for decades that glyphosate and specifically Roundup could cause cancer

    Link or transcript please. Otherwise it didn’t happen.

  188. Boambee John

    test pattern

    When do you think the white “activists” currently leeching on the indigenous population will realise that the future is leeching on Muslims and “African- Australians?

    When they start lobbying for some of the $33 billion currently going to indigenous causes to go to their new hosts, what then?

  189. Leo G

    There are two square roots of 1, and you are choosing the one that suits you. Likewise two square roots of -1.

    True- but the symbol √ by convention always refers to the positive square root.

  190. DrBeauGan

    Ah, same as 0.

    √(-0) = 0

    Sorry,cohenite. -0=0. They are different expressions for the same number.

  191. Old School Conservative

    Snoopy
    #2788010, posted on August 13, 2018 at 8:13 pm
    Ben Roberts-Smith hasn’t denied having an affair with a lawyer.

    IIRC he said that he and his wife went through a bad patch in their marriage. During this time (probably separated) he dated the female lawyer, including attending the function at which she fell down the stairs.

    All of which is grist to the mill of salacious MSM outlets, but not relevant to any slurs and dodgy investigations into the SAS.

    The weasel words of the snake-in-the-grass Veterans Affairs Minister Darren Chester are symptomatic of spin, slime and swampy politicians.

  192. Snoopy

    OSC, I was just having a dig at him for having the poor judgement to pork a lawyer. I should have added a ☺️.

  193. DrBeauGan

    True- but the symbol √ by convention always refers to the positive square root.

    Not in the complex plane it doesn’t. In general the idea of a positive root and a negative root doesn’t make sense. There are two square roots of 1-i for example. Which is the positive one?

  194. Farmer Gez

    Link or transcript please. Otherwise it didn’t happen.

    Not up on ABC site yet.

  195. entropy

    all you need to know about Chester is the ABC likes him in preference to just about any other National Party politician.

  196. Farmer Gez

    Anyone watch the Four Corners show on cosmetic surgery?
    What a horror show.

  197. RobK

    Dr Bg,
    IIRC, i is an imaginary number. A means to an end.

  198. DrBeauGan

    Or as the disgruntled engineering students asked: ” How is it that j has two roots and I don’t even have one?”

  199. Makka

    Future Teachers Union drones get easy Uni entry;

    Students with dismal high school results are being accepted into university teaching courses, setting off alarm bells about the quality of some Australian educators.

    The university sector, however, says low scores don’t tell a student’s full story and only represent a tiny number of teaching admissions.

    Figures released to a Senate inquiry show one student was accepted to a teaching course at a Victorian uni in 2018 with a score of 17.9 out of a possible 99.95, while the lowest score accepted at another institution was 22.1.

  200. DrBeauGan

    RobK
    #2788107, posted on August 13, 2018 at 9:41 pm
    Dr Bg,
    IIRC, i is an imaginary number. A means to an end.

    All numbers are imaginary and a means to an end, Rob. I guess some are more imaginary than others.

    Seriously, if they were invented yesterday, complex numbers would be called planar numbers and imaginary numbers probably wouldn’t have a special name. They are just the numbers on the y-axis if you pretend the usual real numbers are those on the x-axis. It’s a mildly useful pretence, but x+0i and x aren’t really the same.

  201. DrBeauGan

    Figures released to a Senate inquiry show one student was accepted to a teaching course at a Victorian uni in 2018 with a score of 17.9 out of a possible 99.95, while the lowest score accepted at another institution was 22.1.

    Something tells me they weren’t planning to teach Maths.

  202. 132andBush

    I suppose the history of cancer in farmers has been investigated, I’d settle for studies looking back to the mid 1800’s.
    Farmers are marinated in sunlight as a part of the job.
    What about all the plastics found in tractor cabs since the mid seventies?
    Hydraulic oil, sump oil, diesel, petrol, seed pickle.
    Fertilizers manufactured in dodgy overseas countries with higher levels of cadmium etc.
    Arsenic based sheep dip in days gone by with farmyards no doubt still contaminated to some extent.
    Water drunk for a lifetime, collected off a gal roof, stored in a rusty gal water tank.

    If Roundup was a real problem it would’ve REALLY showed its head by now.

    “The Farmers Cancer”?

    Fuck off.

  203. Leo G

    Not in the complex plane it doesn’t. In general the idea of a positive root and a negative root doesn’t make sense. There are two square roots of 1-i for example. Which is the positive one?

    √(1 – j) = {√ (√2+1) – j √ (√2-1) } / √2

  204. 132andBush

    Students with dismal high school results are being accepted into university teaching courses, setting off alarm bells about the quality of some Australian educators.

    Due to a position I held a few years ago I was involved with the selection of two teachers for our small town public school.
    We received 50+ applications with the usual resumes and “why you should hire me” spiels.
    I personally binned 23 of them for basic grammar and spelling errors!
    Mostly from fresh out of uni types but a few from teachers who were two or three years in the system.

    Stunned I woz.

  205. .

    People arguing against AC electricity?

    Good luck with that.

  206. Leo G

    People arguing against AC electricity?

    Australian Capital electricity seems a waste to many.

  207. Rae

    “The Farmers Cancer”?

    Cancer among farmers. A review.

    During the performance of routine tasks farmers may come in contact with a variety of substances, including pesticides, solvents, oils and fuels, dusts, paints, welding fumes, zoonotic viruses, microbes, and fungi. Because some of these substances are known or suspected carcinogens, the epidemiologic literature regarding cancer risks concerning farmers has been reviewed. Farmers had consistent deficits for cancers of the colon, rectum, liver, and nose. The deficits for cancer of the lung and bladder were particularly striking, presumably due to less frequent use of tobacco among farmers than among people in many other occupational groups. Malignancies frequently showing excesses among farmers included Hodgkin’s disease, leukemia, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, multiple myeloma, and cancers of the lip, stomach, prostate, skin (nonmelanotic), brain, and connective tissues. The etiologic factors that may contribute to these excesses in the agricultural environment have not been identified. Detailed, analytic epidemiologic studies that incorporate environmental and biochemical monitoring are needed to clarify these associations.

  208. Top Ender

    Funny how these creatures are only found in this area. Hobart is surrounded by bush which stretches for miles…

    Snails, parrots and quolls ‘a cable car roadblock’ for Hobart’s Mount Wellington

    AN HOUR AGO AUGUST 13, 201824 COMMENTS

    The Turnbull government may be dragged into a battle over a cable car planned for Hobart’s Mount Wellington, with up to 10 fed­erally listed threatened species potentially in the path of a link road.

    The Mount Wellington Cableway Company has proposed the $2.5 million link road through a council reserve, after its initial plan for a base station on Cascade Brewery land was scuttled by Carlton & United Breweries.

    CUB cited lack of support for the $50m-plus project, pushed by investors including ­entrepreneur Adrian Bold, Tourism Tasmania chairman James Cretan and ­professional gambler Phillip ­Turner.

    The revised plan, touted as “the full proposal”, would see a base station built in a council ­reserve, accessed via a new 2.5km-plus road through the area.

    While the road may have some aesthetic challenges — initially running alongside the Hobart tip — and be partly built over a fire trail, it would cut through a rare forest type where federally listed threatened species have been found. A search of Tasmania’s Natural Values Atlas shows the area in and around the proposed road has verified reports of six threatened species listed under the federal Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conser­vation Act.

    These are the eastern quoll, ammonite snail, swift parrot, eastern barred bandicoot, masked owl and a rare plant, pretty heath.

    Four other EPBC-­listed threatened species are potentially in the area, including the ­Tasmanian wedge-tailed eagle, the forty-spotted pardalote, the spotted-tail quoll and Tasmanian devil.

    The rare forest type — silver peppermint on sediments — is also known habitat for the critically endangered and EPBC-­listed forest finger orchid.

    MWCC has proposed a flora and fauna survey to discover how many, if any, of these species occur along the road corridor and in what number; residents opposed to the cable car plan their own survey.

    The company yesterday ­acknowledged finding EPBC-listed species could trigger a federal ­assessment and approval by federal Environment Minister Josh Frydenberg.

    “The study will determine if there is any requirement for an EPBC referral,” Mr Bold said.

    MWCC is seeking approval for the survey from the landowner, the Hobart City Council, at a meeting on Monday.

    The council’s parks committee last Thursday night recommended MWCC’s request be denied and that no cable car infrastructure be allowed on council land, prompting the company to seek legal advice.

    Friends of the Earth campaigner and South Hobart resident Louise Sales said if the road plan proceeded, a federal assessment must be ordered into ­impacts on EPBC-listed species.

    “Not only is public land, a ­reserve, but it’s a really beautiful area, and if there are endangered species there — it just adds to the reasons why the road shouldn’t go ahead,” Ms Sales said.

    Mr Bold said it was not yet clear how much land would need to be cleared: “The road corridor is yet to be finalised, based on the flora and fauna study, which will determine if and how much land needs to be cleared.”

    The average road project cost in Australia is $5.1m per lane kilometre but Mr Bold said the cost of the link road was covered by savings from a shorter cableway under the revised plan.

    A federal Environment Department spokesperson said: “It is the proponent’s responsibility to refer an activity under national environment law if they think it could cause a significant impact on a nationally protected matter.”

    Louise Sales is, of course, a member of Greenpeace.

    Link

  209. DrBeauGan

    √(1 – j) = {√ (√2+1) – j √ (√2-1) } / √2

    Why do you think that’s the positive one?

    If you look at the unit circle, you can specify the complex number (cos ∆ + j sin ∆} / √2 as just ∆ . This is giving it in polar coordinates. The two square roots are ∆ and -∆ . So far so good. Now walk around the unit circle and keep track of the two roots. By the time you get back to ∆ = 0 or 2π, the roots have gone through π. In other words, they have changed places, the positive +1 has changed to -1. If you believe there is a sound justification for calling one root positive and the other negative, this ought to worry you.

  210. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Cancer among farmers. A review.

    That research was dated 1985. From personal experience, I can tell you that, from 1995, there have been education campaigns to instill in farmers the correct procedures about handling, and use of farm chemicals, to the point where you have to be accredited to handle farm chemicals.

  211. JC

    Rones

    Would that accredation be like a masters degree in chemistry?

  212. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Accredited to use scroll button, scrolled past someone with a pink avatar, raving about “Rones.”

  213. JC

    Rones

    I could visualise you heading to the accreditation ceremony all decked out like a newly minted graduate.

  214. Snoopy

    ABC 7.30 took aim at AMP Super tonight. AMP has been blessed with NAB hogging the limelight for the last 6 days.

  215. JC

    Lol
    Bit old dude. Try an little more creative texting as you’ve been running with that for about 3 weeks now.

  216. Mitch M.

    Malignancies frequently showing excesses among farmers included Hodgkin’s disease, leukemia, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, multiple myeloma, and cancers of the lip, stomach, prostate, skin (nonmelanotic), brain, and connective tissues. The etiologic factors that may contribute to these excesses in the agricultural environment have not been identified. Detailed, analytic epidemiologic studies that incorporate environmental and biochemical monitoring are needed to clarify these associations.

    Thanks Rae, more evidence. There are also numerous studies highlighting increased Parkinson’s risk in farm workers and that clearly is related to some pesticides. But hey let’s just dismiss all this as shoddy science so we can maintain our confirmation bias, so we can proclaim conspiracy theories, so we can claim we shouldn’t worry about those risks because there are so many other risks we should be worried about.

  217. None

    Darren Chester, according to someone I know who knows him, is a dishonest lefty slime and should be disendorsed by his party. That he isn’t tells you all you need to know.

  218. DrBeauGan

    The two square roots are ∆ and -∆ . So fa

    They should both be ∆/2 of course.

    Put your left index finger on ∆ and your right index finger on ∆/2. At angle 0, Cartesian 1+0j, in engineering, both are at the same place. Move your left finger around in the positive direction. Every time you pause, look at your right finger on say to yourself “that’s the positive root.”

    After a little while your left finger is on j, or as I prefer to call it, π/2. Your right finger is on π/4. Keep saying as you look at your right finger, “that’s the positive root.”

    After you’ve gone an angle of π with your left finger, you are at the complex number -1. Your right finger is on j. Keep telling yourself while looking at your right finger, “that’s the positive root.”

    Now keep going until your left finger has gone right around the circle. Your right finger is now at -1. And I hope you are still telling yourself it’s on the positive root. Because it sure wasn’t a circle back.

  219. DrBeauGan

    Oh and when your left finger is (1-j)/√2, your right finger “positive root” is at the opposite end of the circle to the solution you said was positive. Divided by √2, of course.

  220. Old School Conservative

    DrBeauGan
    #2788132, posted on August 13, 2018 at 9:55 pm
    “Figures released to a Senate inquiry show one student was accepted to a teaching course at a Victorian uni in 2018 with a score of 17.9 out of a possible 99.95, while the lowest score accepted at another institution was 22.1.”

    It’s not a score out of 99.95, it’s a ranking. In this case, only 17.9 percent of the population of students in a particular year finished behind the student in question.
    The writer, having got that basic fact wrong, has no credibility in any other comment about university entry criteria.

  221. DrBeauGan

    I was quoting Makka who found it, OSC.

    I have little faith in journos. Every time they write about something I’m familiar with, they screw up. I assume they screw up on the things I know little about too.

  222. JC

    Mitch

    The chemical scare appears to be another hysterical reprise of that lezzo. Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring. We’ve lived with chemical spraying for decades over decades.

    Studies like the ones mentioned are extremely difficult to prove as there has to be differential analysis.

    There’s no overwhelming evidence at this stage. It’s all a bear up out of purist Europe.

  223. RobK

    DrBg,
    They are just the numbers on the y-axis if you pretend the usual real numbers are those on the x-axis. 

    Yes, some old neurons are having cob webs removed. Thanks.

  224. cohenite

    Now keep going until your left finger has gone right around the circle. Your right finger is now at -1. And I hope you are still telling yourself it’s on the positive root. Because it sure wasn’t a circle back.

    That was the point I was trying to make: that what is, is also what it is not. And vice-versa.

  225. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Put on the song, turn the volume up loud, and tel your neighbors where to go.

  226. DrBeauGan

    I was once asked by a bureaucrat wishing to judge me without the trouble of finding out anything about my work who did I compare myself to? I replied, honestly, that my standard of comparison involved Archimedes, Newton, Euler and Gauss. The next question was “Do you can yourself in the top 1%, the top 5%, or other, please specify.”

    I admitted to being in the top 100%.

    He probably thought that was rather conceited of me.😊

  227. JC

    Don’t fuck with Musk, because if you’re short the stock he will hurt you.

    Tesla up almost 10% on announcement Saudi fund looking to take the company private.

  228. Old School Conservative

    I was quoting Makka who found it, OSC.

    Yep, I was aware of that – I tried to indicate that by using quotation marks. Failed.
    Obviously I’m stunned into incompetence by trying to follow the maths debate!

  229. Infidel Tiger

    The Saudis are dumber than I thought.

  230. max

    The ABC’s War on F**** Waste.

    What a lot of garbage.

  231. DrBeauGan

    Obviously I’m stunned into incompetence by trying to follow the maths debate!

    The thing that maddens me is that as a result of bad teaching so many people hate Maths. Good Maths teachers are rare. And as Arky shows, the good ones don’t fit in and aren’t allowed to teach well. So they quit, as Arky did. I’ve heard similar stories from others.

    It’s grounds for shooting educationalists.

    A good Maths teacher should be paid about a hundred times as much as a good English teacher. What he does is a hundred times as difficult and a thousand times the value.

  232. RobK

    The ABC’s War on F**** Waste.

    What a lot of garbage.


    Absolutely. A good high temperature incinerator and a well designed land fill would tale care of most things.

  233. Infidel Tiger

    Great to hear Bayer/Monsanto got what was coming to them.

    Death to the corporate state!

  234. JC

    Artie

    You’re glomming cheap food because of the lord’s former public listed company. He cashed out . Funny how Bayer bought a firm supposedly poisoning people.

  235. Infidel Tiger

    Bayer has been poisoning people for centuries.

    Smash the corporatist state!

  236. Oh come on

    Hey, m0nty!!!

    The RealClear mob – not an especially partisan source overall – have an interesting take on Don Jr’s Trump Tower meeting with the Russian lawyer:

    2016 Trump Tower Meeting Looks Increasingly Like a Setup by Russian and Clinton Operatives

  237. Oh come on

    Neither know nor care much about Bayer, but Monsanto is a great company that does fantastic work. Anyone who opposes it is definitely a conspiracy theorising loonbag.

  238. Oh come on

    I read an ABC article trying to cast aspersions on Monsanto, trying to make it look like some kind of eeeebil company that just likes to do eeeeeeebil things because it’s so eeeeebil. Mr Burns to-the-power-of Mr Burns.

    The last few sentences of the article read something like ‘Monsanto developed [the active ingredient in RoundUp] fifty years ago. Then it began genetically engineering crops, including a crop that was resistant to [the active ingredient in RoundUp].’

    And that was the end of the article. See? Eeeeeeeebil! Why else would they do this?? Invent a plant poison and then genetically engineer plants so they’re resistant to the poison! Genius! So then…umm….that’s going to help Monsanto how, precisely? (Apart from bolstering their evil credentials massively.) Maybe…they make the plants immune to RoundUp so Monsanto has to invent *another* poison that does work! Genius! Evil, evil genius! I mean, they could just not develop the RoundUp-resistant plant and continue making money selling RoundUp, but where’s the evil pleasure in that?

    I suppose it is possible that they were making food crops resistant to RoundUp so you could spray a field of, say, GE maize with RoundUp and all of the plants you don’t want growing with the maize die while the maize crop survives and thrives. That would make sound commercial sense. Not very evil, though. And Monsanto isn’t interested in maximising their profit margin. Only their evil margin. So that obviously wasn’t what they were doing.

  239. JC

    OCO

    As I said earlier, it’s the Silent Spring remake. Instead of soft eagle eggs we have rats with crook backs.

  240. Oh come on

    The survey comes as polling guru John Curtice said he expects a new anti-Brexit centrist party to emerge if Mrs May failed to reach a deal.

    Speaking to Nigel Farage on his LBC show, the polling guru said: “I think we are going to see a situation where a so-called centre party, by which we really mean a pro-Remain, slightly left-wing party than Jeremy Corbyn’s party, is going to emerge simply and naturally.

    Link

    Really? If true, this would be the most incredible news for the Conservatives ever. Don’t forget the UK has a FPTP voting system. If Labour’s vote is split in a meaningful way by a “pro-Remain, slightly left-wing party”, the Tories will win a massive majority in the Commons.

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