Wednesday Forum: October 17, 2018

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2,216 Responses to Wednesday Forum: October 17, 2018

  1. None

    And then the Libs will promptly move even further to the left.

    Correct Maka. Don’t underestimate the probability of another leadership change. Why is Alex Turnbull going crazy about the so-called crazies? Because he knows that his dad hates them, fears them and he’s just Daddy’a sock puppet.

  2. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    ACT Police launches Water Police Unit for 6,000 square metre Lake Barely Tolerable
    Wednesday, 17 October 2018

    Lake Burley Griffin is 6 square kilometres of water.

    Tomorrow the Farce that is the AFP has invited all and sundry – particularly sundry aborigines – to the launch of their ACT Water Police boats. Yes, B-O-A-T-S plural.

    From Michael Smith News.

    IIRC, Lake Burley Griffin was an artificial lake, completed in 1963, so why do the Aboriginal elders have to be there? And where did this fashion of called the elders “Aunty” or “Uncle” spring from?

  3. struth

    And then the Libs will promptly move even further to the left.

    Due to our incredibly stupid compulsory preferential voting, our already as thick as two short plank pollies can’t work out what is actually happening and what the electorate wants.

    Asking the electorate what it wants is not part of Liberal party policy.
    It is there to enact out what the UN wants.

    And it wants to see if it’s flags get any push back next Wednesday.

    That’s after the bi election of course.

    Do most Australians even know what the UN flag looks like?

  4. None

    Most of Lake Burley Griffin is only knee deep.

  5. OldOzzie

    Trump Complains About Rising Interest Rates, Calling the Fed ‘My Biggest Threat’ – WSJ

    The president says he is not happy with Fed Chairman Jerome Powell

    President Trump reiterated his complaints that the Federal Reserve is raising short-term interest rates too fast, calling the U.S. central bank “my biggest threat.”

    “It’s independent so I don’t speak to him, but I’m not happy with what he’s doing, because it’s going too fast,” Mr. Trump said in an interview with the Fox Business Network, referring to Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, whom he nominated last year.

    “You looked at the last inflation numbers, they’re very low,” he said while arguing for a slower increase in interest rates.

    The president acknowledged Mr. Powell was his pick to replace former Fed Chairwoman Janet Yellen, and said he wasn’t blaming anyone.

    “I put him there, and maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong,” he said, adding, “I put a couple of other people there that I’m not so happy with too. For the most part, I’m very happy with people.”

    In the interview, Mr. Trump said Mr. Powell is “being extremely conservative, let me use a nice term.” But he demurred when asked directly if Mr. Powell would be out of a job if his decisions prove misguided. “Well number one, I don’t appoint for another four years, five years,” the president said, “so look, I am not happy with what he’s doing.”

    The law is vague about whether a president can fire a Fed chairman, who serves a four-year term.

    Mr. Trump has nominated three of the four current members of the Fed’s board of governors: Mr. Powell, Vice Chairman Richard Clarida and Vice Chairman for Supervision Randal Quarles. Three other Trump nominations to the board are still awaiting Senate confirmation.

    The president’s comments are his latest criticism leveled at the central bank. On Oct. 9, he repeated his displeasure with the Fed and said he believed inflation remained in check. “I think the Fed has gone crazy,” he told reporters the next day, in the middle of a stock market selloff.

    Mr. Powell said earlier this month he sees little sign the economy is overheating, but defended the Fed against Mr. Trump’s criticism that policy makers are raising rates too fast.

    Consumer prices, a broad measure of inflation, rose less than expected for the second straight month in September, the Commerce Department said last week, suggesting price pressures remain in check. In the 12 months through September, overall prices rose 2.3%, the smallest year-over-year change since February.

    The Fed’s preferred inflation gauge, the personal-consumption expenditures index, rose 2.2% in August from a year earlier, above the Fed’s 2% target.

    Trump’s repeated critiques represent a break from previous White House protocols, dating back to the early 1990s, not to comment on monetary policy or otherwise criticize the central bank.

    Former Fed Chairwoman Janet Yellen said Monday the president’s attacks on the Fed are “counterproductive.”

    “There’s no law against that,” she said. “But I don’t think it’s wise.”

  6. Stimpson J. Cat

    You have a curious conviction that you know the rules that govern the behaviour of atheists
    Rules That Govern The Behavior Of Atheists

    1. Be annoying.
    2. Be annoying.
    3. Be annoying.
    4. Be irritating.
    5. Etc,etc.

  7. .

    Interesting reading

    https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/807/1/adt-NU20020222.14582202whole.pdf

    THE OTHER RADICALISM:
    AN INQUIRY INTO CONTEMPORARY AUSTRALIAN
    EXTREME RIGHT IDEOLOGY,
    POLITICS AND ORGANIZATION 1975

    1995
    JAMES SALEAM
    A Thesis submitted in fulfilment
    of the requirements for the degree of
    Doctor Of Philosophy

    Department Of Government And Public Administration
    University of Sydney
    Australia
    December 1999

  8. OldOzzie

    Europe’s Not-So-Swift Diplomacy – WSJ

    The U.S. and Brussels head toward a needless sanctions showdown.

    By The Editorial Board


    Another trans-Atlantic showdown is looming as the Trump Administration prepares its next tranche of financial sanctions on Iran, and the puzzle is why Europe keeps backing itself into a corner. Brussels and European Union states seem ready to stage a battle with Washington over an obscure but important financial-service network—against Europe’s own interests.

    The looming brouhaha concerns Swift, the Belgium-based cooperative that manages the global system that banks use to communicate with each other for cross-border transactions. The Trump Administration will soon lay out its plans for financial sanctions on Tehran to take effect in November, as Washington reintroduces sanctions lifted under the Obama Administration’s 2015 nuclear deal. One question is whether the new sanctions include Swift.

    They will have to in order to be effective, because cutting Iran off from Swift’s services is one of the best ways to ensure that financial sanctions bite. Were Swift to sever ties with Iranian banks, Iranian companies and financial institutions would struggle to transfer money to and from the rest of the world.

    Alternatives exist, but none offer Swift’s global reach or security. Europe’s much-vaunted “special-purpose vehicle” for trading around U.S. financial sanctions, announced last month, is expected to be little more than a glorified barter arrangement with limited scope.

    Swift is particularly prone to U.S. pressure because the American financial system looms so large in the world. Swift’s board includes representatives of European and American banks, and many messages across its network travel to or from the U.S. Some Europeans believe Washington wields too much influence over a network they think should operate on a multilateral consensus like a financial EU.

    Swift cooperated with the U.S. against Iran from 2012-2016 when the Obama Administration sought to pressure the mullahs. But Swift officials say Europe and the U.S. agreed on that policy. Now they say they’re being coerced by the U.S. without European assent.

    German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas recently floated the idea that Europe could develop its own messaging system as an alternative to Swift, in part to undermine Washington’s ability to impose financial sanctions. China and Russia would be delighted to have an alternative that let them avoid U.S. influence.

    Swift officials say the U.S. should worry that an alternative would undermine Swift’s ability to help the U.S. and Europe monitor terror transactions. But terrorists already know to avoid Swift and use other ways to finance their operations. In any case, an alternative would be difficult to make work given the expansive reach of U.S. institutions and the dollar in global finance.

    Brussels also has passed a “blocking statute” making it illegal for European companies to comply with U.S.-imposed sanctions. This could be used to lean on Swift to ignore a Washington ban on doing business with Iran. But most European companies have already made clear that they will choose doing business with the U.S. over Iran.

    On Tuesday, 30 policy experts and former U.S. officials urged the Trump Administration to include Swift in sanctions. The statement’s signers include former Sen. Joe Lieberman and former national security advisers Richard Allen and Robert McFarlane.

    Despite the discord over the nuclear deal, America and Europe share many common interests on Iran and global financial flows. Those include shared concerns over Iran’s ballistic-missile program, which isn’t covered by the 2015 deal, Tehran’s regional meddling, and sunset clauses in the Obama agreement.

    European governments are also increasingly concerned about global money laundering and other illicit money flows. Preserving Swift as the main global financial-messaging system is as much in Europe’s interest as America’s. U.S. sanctions that bring Tehran back to the table to address the gaping holes in the 2015 deal are good for Europe and the U.S., and Swift can help toward that goal.

  9. DrBeauGan

    I just want you to either give a logical and consistent athiest case against slitting te spinal chords of new born babies, or admit the truth: as an atheist there is no reason for you to give two shits.

    This is still garbage. Buddhists don’t believe in God and they find the idea as horrific as you or I do.

    Your idea that the existence of God is necessary to have an ethical system is drivel. Maybe a belief in Him keeps you from being an arsehole, but I’ve explained my reasons for not being an arsehole and God isn’t in the list.

    You seem to be unable to grasp the possibility of ethics without God. There have been lots of books written on the subject. Try Spinoza. He’s nuts, but then, so many of us are.

  10. Makka

    our already as thick as two short plank pollies can’t work out what is actually happening and what the electorate wants.

    struth,
    I understand that many hold out hope that by some miracle , the Libs can be reformed. That from within, some form of Righteous Right can emerge to lead them back to the path of light.

    That hope is completely misplaced. Like a rabid dog, the Libs are beyond saving. Therefore the best hope is for their rapid destruction. Their drift ever left will not be arrested until they are so far left the Labor will actually be the party of the Right. The Libs have NO CONVICTION, save holding the Treasury.This destruction can happen if the devastation at the next GE is so sufficiently brutal that they set about burning their house down in internecine warfare. It will be ugly but well worth watching.

  11. Stimpson J. Cat

    I bet you they were men because only lettuce leaf Liberal men would want abortion because they’re probably f****** their staff and need an out clause.

    Maybe get back to us when you know for sure they were men. .
    Abortion is, after all, what women want.
    They are much bigger customers of the service than men, I’ve been told.

  12. Armadillo

    “Baby Armadillo” apparently wants to know about the features of Hymenoptera and Isopoda which assist them to survive in certain environments with evidence from reputable scientific journals.

    Any ideas?

    I’m tempted to point out to her that after “Climate Gate”, scientific journals aren’t to be trusted.

  13. Tel

    A year or so ago then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull flew to the US and paid homage to new President, Donald Trump.

    […]

    Then something happened that nobody had been expecting. The collapse of social order in the likes of Libya…

    Hey bullshitter, you know as well as I do that Libya collapsed under the Hillary/Obama era long before Trump was even a candidate. Don’t even try that on. Don’t even think about it. Just don’t go there. The rise of ISIS happened before Trump also. Don’t yank my crank.

    I’ll give you whatever it takes.

  14. Death Giraffe

    If it is so easy and obvious, just do it Beaugan.
    Stop with the meta shit and state the argument, you tool.
    Otherwise, if you can’t or won’t, why am I talking to you?

  15. I thought we had moved on……………………………………………..

    ‘Fraid not Struth.
    I’m watching episodes of Magnum P.I. – the Tom Selleck version.
    In the grander scheme of things, Catallaxy is rapidly becoming irrelevant – to anything.

  16. OldOzzie

    Fighters Downed by Hurricane – WSJ

    Why America’s best military aircraft couldn’t fly to escape a storm.

    By The Editorial Board


    Hurricane Michael did terrible damage in Florida last week, and that may include some of the world’s most capable military aircraft left in its path. But why can’t Air Force F-22 jet fighters, of all things, escape a storm? Answer: They lack the parts to be operational and so were stuck in hangars to take a beating.

    Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson said Sunday that the damage to an unspecified number of F-22s on Tyndall Air Force Base was “less than we feared.” But maintenance professionals will have to conduct a detailed assessment before the Air Force can say with certainty that the planes will fly again. Press reports estimate that at least a dozen planes were left on the base due to maintenance and safety issues.

    Welcome to a fighting force damaged by bad political decisions and misguided priorities. Of the Air Force’s 186 F-22s, only about 80 are “mission capable,” according to a July analysis from the Government Accountability Office. The average across the Air Force in 2017 was that about 7 in 10 planes were mission capable, which is still too low for meeting increasing demands.

    Part of the F-22 problem is upkeep on a coating that helps the planes evade radar. Another issue is the supply chain for parts now that the U.S. no longer produces the airplane, and “some original manufacturers no longer make the parts or are completely out of business,” GAO notes. Air Force officials told GAO that a simple wiring harness requires a 30-week lead time for finding a new contractor and producing the part. Ripping out parts from planes that work, or “cannibalizing,” is now common practice in military aviation.

    Then there’s scale, or lack thereof. The Air Force in the 1990s planned for about 650 F-22s, which were designed to replace the F-15. That number fell to about 380 over time, according to GAO, but in 2009 President Obama and Defense Secretary Bob Gates convinced Congress to shut down the production line.

    At the time Messrs. Obama and Gates argued that the U.S. had to focus on defeating unconventional enemies (Islamic State), whereas the F-22 is designed for air dominance against conventional national forces, which could also be handled by the new F-35.

    This now looks like a mistake, as Russia and China improve their military technology and the F-35 continues to have a cascade of problems. The Pentagon last week grounded the entire F-35 fleet for a fuel tube issue, though most were cleared to fly again as of Monday. Now the F-35 is the only fighter show in town. The Air Force looked at restarting the F-22 production line and predicted it’d cost billions to launch. That isn’t happening.

    The larger mistake of the Obama years was cutting defense willy-nilly to pay for entitlements and other priorities, which meant military units in all branches were crunched for training, flight hours and maintenance. Budget uncertainty through “continuing resolutions” from Congress compounded the pain.

    Republicans in Congress and the Trump Administration this year accepted Democratic demands to spend more on income transfers to get a bump in defense spending that included some $47 billion to get planes flying. But Democrats are promising to cut defense again if they win the House. They pretend that a vote for free health care is affordable, but damaged planes on the tarmac is one more lesson that more spending on entitlements eventually means too few planes that can fly.

  17. A rock falling off a cliff and killing someone is neither good nor evil, which implies strongly that the universe has no intrinsic good or evil.

    A rock falling is not an act. The words ‘good’ and ‘evil’, morally speaking, apply to acts. You could, however, call it a natural evil.

    The notion that the universe has good or evil independent from people/beings that have these categories is a form of personification.

    Not true. You were just arguing that these terms relate to survival. People didn’t invent the conditions conducive to survival, we try to satisfy them (and more). That is what is meant by good and evil being mind-independent or objective features of the world.

  18. Armadillo

    And before you start. Yes. I’ve told her that “heaven and earth” was created in 7 days. And to point out that her University lecturer is persecuting her on religious grounds.

  19. DrBeauGan

    Stimpson J. Cat
    #2842381, posted on October 17, 2018 at 10:33 pm
    You have a curious conviction that you know the rules that govern the behaviour of atheists
    Rules That Govern The Behavior Of Atheists

    1. Be annoying.
    2. Be annoying.
    3. Be annoying.
    4. Be irritating.
    5. Etc,etc.

    It’s closer than Death’s rules for atheists which go:

    1. Be a complete bastard.
    2. Be a complete and utter bastard
    3. Be a totally unprincipled shit and a bastard
    4. Go to 1. Only be worse this time.

  20. Tel

    Due to our incredibly stupid compulsory preferential voting, our already as thick as two short plank pollies can’t work out what is actually happening and what the electorate wants.

    Asking the electorate what it wants is not part of Liberal party policy.
    It is there to enact out what the UN wants.

    Did you just blame the voters for the fact that the Liberal Party doesn’t care what the voters think?

  21. Top Ender

    Richo:

    Yet the world will judge us more and more over the health and wellbeing of the people we put on Nauru.

    No they won’t.

    Travel the world Richo – admittedly a bit difficult for you these days – and you quickly see the world does not notice us at all.

    And “the world” has steadily worked out what we did 20-30years ago. If you let people in who turn up then they will be followed by a trickle more, which turns into a stream, which turns into a flood. About 70% of them will be economic migrants who simply would like to live in a nicer country. They will have thrown their passports into the sea so good luck trying to get through their coached lies.

    Anyone who doesn’t understand this is either under-informed, or more usually has an agenda of one-world government, no borders, and no countries. Generally known as communism revisited.

  22. Armadillo

    It’s closer than Death’s rules for atheists which go:

    Never trust Death [Shudder]. A man (or woman) with a “Meerkat” gravitar posting videos of some dude hopelessly trying to repair a 1920 shit box car is insane.

  23. OldOzzie

    Same Problem as Australia

    Russian Pensions and the Risk of War – WSJ

    Putin raises the retirement age, inflaming the street. Will he find an external enemy to shore up support?

    In the streets of more than 80 Russian cities, thousands of men and women have turned out for antigovernment rallies in the past few months. They aren’t the usual malcontents—the middle class, intelligentsia or students—but rabotyagi, blue-collar working stiffs. Both the cause of the rallies and their political context reveal the impoverishment of Russia and the fragility of Vladimir Putin’s regime, despite its outward appearance of toughness. The West, however, shouldn’t gloat; facing problems at home, Mr. Putin could try to create new problems abroad.

    The demonstrators are protesting Mr. Putin’s pension law, introduced in June. The law is meant to save the Russian treasury $15 billion a year by 2024 by gradually increasing the retirement age to 65 from 60 for men, and to 60 from 55 for women. At first glance, the reform doesn’t seem dramatic enough to stir such passions. Russian pensions are skimpy anyway, averaging around $220 a month. That’s barely above the Russian poverty line of $171 and among the lowest rates in Europe.

    Yet for millions of Russians, an extra five years of work is a hard blow. At $592 a month, the average Russian salary is puny. That’s why Russia today can have near-full employment, while 14% of the population, or 20 million Russians, are in poverty, as per official statistics. Independent experts from the Higher School of Economics in Moscow estimated last year that 41% of Russians have trouble paying for clothing and food. For many, the choice is between near-poverty while working or near-poverty while staying home.

    Life expectancy for Russian men is under 67, not even two full years past the new, higher-than-ever retirement age. Many men fear they’ll literally be worked to death. “With this pension reform, with everything pushed back, I feel like I’ll never get out,” a railway worker said last month.

    The protests exposed a fissure in what might be called Mr. Putin’s contract with the Russian people: You stay out of politics and I’ll give you stability. The contract held up in past tough times, most notably in 2008-09, when the Russian economy contracted almost 8% after oil prices fell. Then, difficulties could be blamed on external factors. No such excuses exist today. Incomes have declined for four consecutive years, and the pain is self-inflicted—Russians feel that Mr. Putin’s regime has stabbed them in the back.

    Hence Mr. Putin’s unprecedented nationally televised appeal on Aug. 29. In 18 years in power, Mr. Putin had never made a plea for support for a specific policy like this. The speech was heartfelt, animated, cajoling—and not nearly enough. According to Russian polls, 6% were in favor of the pension reform before the speech and 80% opposed it. After Mr. Putin had spoken, the numbers were 11% and 75%.

    Mr. Putin’s approval ratings—his regime’s only claim on legitimacy—have been steadily sliding, from 79% in May, before the reform was announced, to 67% in September. These would be astronomically high numbers in a democracy, but they’re bad news in a country where Mr. Putin is effectively the only politician and no critic is ever allowed on television.

    Mr. Putin’s headache can quickly become the West’s. At the end of 2013, when his ratings were his lowest in 13 years (and only 6 points below today’s), he boosted them with the outrageous Winter Olympics—doping en masse—followed by the seizure and annexation of Crimea and the war against Ukraine. Since then, militarized patriotism has become the key to Mr. Putin’s popularity. Tens of millions of Russians have been swayed by his narrative: Russia is surrounded by enemies but not only will the president protect the Motherland, he will also restore Russian glory lost in the Soviet collapse.

    The Russian people have tolerated a lot: the upkeep and economic development of Crimea to the tune of nearly $3 billion a year; the estimated $100 billion to $150 billion direct and indirect costs of Western sanctions; and two defense modernization programs, together totaling around $650 billion. In addition to these programs, spending on military and police is projected to grow by 33% in the next three years. Yet the protests indicate Russian patience has limits.

    Mr. Putin has been riding the tiger of patriotic fervor, but the beast is difficult to dismount and it demands fresh meat, the bloodier the better. Today, as pension reform threatens Mr. Putin’s support, it might be feeding time again. The obvious targets for engineering another Crimea or Ukraine are Narva and Latgale, the heavily Russian-speaking enclaves in Estonia and Latvia, respectively. In addition to unleashing a patriotic flood, Mr. Putin would undoubtedly hope to expose the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as dithering and ineffectual. A risky step to be sure, but in Mr. Putin’s political calculus, foreign adventurism may be less perilous than domestic turmoil.

    A candle worth a kopek once set Moscow ablaze, a Russian saying goes. That’s the pension reform: Its $15 billion in alleged annual savings—tiny compared with Russian spending on defense and aggression in Crimea—are a one-kopek candle that may leave the country in flames. Let’s hope the West has its fire engines ready should the conflagration spread.

  24. Mark Bolton

    In this crystal filigree argument structure involving embryo development, comparative sociology, dinner table chairs rocking back and forth over the hind legs (like we thrashed our younguns out of) under the thrall of yet another gripping intellectual hypothetical.

    Is there no room left for personal witness to horrible things that go on when evil is given a city pass?

  25. OldOzzie

    Same Problem as Australia

    Russian Pensions and the Risk of War – WSJ

    Putin raises the retirement age, inflaming the street. Will he find an external enemy to shore up support?

    In the streets of more than 80 Russian cities, thousands of men and women have turned out for antigovernment rallies in the past few months. They aren’t the usual malcontents—the middle class, intelligentsia or students—but rabotyagi, blue-collar working st##fs. Both the cause of the rallies and their political context reveal the impoverishment of Russia and the fragility of Vladimir Putin’s regime, despite its outward appearance of toughness. The West, however, shouldn’t gloat; facing problems at home, Mr. Putin could try to create new problems abroad.

    The demonstrators are protesting Mr. Putin’s pension law, introduced in June. The law is meant to save the Russian treasury $15 billion a year by 2024 by gradually increasing the retirement age to 65 from 60 for men, and to 60 from 55 for women. At first glance, the reform doesn’t seem dramatic enough to stir such passions. Russian pensions are skimpy anyway, averaging around $220 a month. That’s barely above the Russian poverty line of $171 and among the lowest rates in Europe.

    Yet for millions of Russians, an extra five years of work is a hard blow. At $592 a month, the average Russian salary is puny. That’s why Russia today can have near-full employment, while 14% of the population, or 20 million Russians, are in poverty, as per official statistics. Independent experts from the Higher School of Economics in Moscow estimated last year that 41% of Russians have trouble paying for clothing and food. For many, the choice is between near-poverty while working or near-poverty while staying home.

    Life expectancy for Russian men is under 67, not even two full years past the new, higher-than-ever retirement age. Many men fear they’ll literally be worked to death. “With this pension reform, with everything pushed back, I feel like I’ll never get out,” a railway worker said last month.

    The protests exposed a fissure in what might be called Mr. Putin’s contract with the Russian people: You stay out of politics and I’ll give you stability. The contract held up in past tough times, most notably in 2008-09, when the Russian economy contracted almost 8% after oil prices fell. Then, difficulties could be blamed on external factors. No such excuses exist today. Incomes have declined for four consecutive years, and the pain is self-inflicted—Russians feel that Mr. Putin’s regime has stabbed them in the back.

    Hence Mr. Putin’s unprecedented nationally televised appeal on Aug. 29. In 18 years in power, Mr. Putin had never made a plea for support for a specific policy like this. The speech was heartfelt, animated, cajoling—and not nearly enough. According to Russian polls, 6% were in favor of the pension reform before the speech and 80% opposed it. After Mr. Putin had spoken, the numbers were 11% and 75%.

    Mr. Putin’s approval ratings—his regime’s only claim on legitimacy—have been steadily sliding, from 79% in May, before the reform was announced, to 67% in September. These would be astronomically high numbers in a democracy, but they’re bad news in a country where Mr. Putin is effectively the only politician and no critic is ever allowed on television.

    Mr. Putin’s headache can quickly become the West’s. At the end of 2013, when his ratings were his lowest in 13 years (and only 6 points below today’s), he boosted them with the outrageous Winter Olympics—doping en masse—followed by the seizure and annexation of Crimea and the war against Ukraine. Since then, militarized patriotism has become the key to Mr. Putin’s popularity. Tens of millions of Russians have been swayed by his narrative: Russia is surrounded by enemies but not only will the president protect the Motherland, he will also restore Russian glory lost in the Soviet collapse.

    The Russian people have tolerated a lot: the upkeep and economic development of Crimea to the tune of nearly $3 billion a year; the estimated $100 billion to $150 billion direct and indirect costs of Western sanctions; and two defense modernization programs, together totaling around $650 billion. In addition to these programs, spending on military and police is projected to grow by 33% in the next three years. Yet the protests indicate Russian patience has limits.

    Mr. Putin has been riding the tiger of patriotic fervor, but the beast is difficult to dismount and it demands fresh meat, the bloodier the better. Today, as pension reform threatens Mr. Putin’s support, it might be feeding time again. The obvious targets for engineering another Crimea or Ukraine are Narva and Latgale, the heavily Russian-speaking enclaves in Estonia and Latvia, respectively. In addition to unleashing a patriotic flood, Mr. Putin would undoubtedly hope to expose the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as dithering and ineffectual. A risky step to be sure, but in Mr. Putin’s political calculus, foreign adventurism may be less perilous than domestic turmoil.

    A candle worth a kopek once set Moscow ablaze, a Russian saying goes. That’s the pension reform: Its $15 billion in alleged annual savings—tiny compared with Russian spending on defense and aggression in Crimea—are a one-kopek candle that may leave the country in flames. Let’s hope the West has its fire engines ready should the conflagration spread.

  26. Death Giraffe

    Never trust Death [Shudder]. A man (or woman) with a “Meerkat” gravitar posting videos of some dude hopelessly trying to repair a 1920 shit box car is insane.

    ..
    You will not be getting a ride when it is finished if you keep carrying on like that.

  27. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    A rock falling is not an act. The words ‘good’ and ‘evil’, morally speaking, apply to acts. You could, however, call it a natural evil.

    So if a tree falls in the forest is that evil? There is nothing objective in the thing/act that is good or evil, it requires someone to label it. Someone else might label differently.

    Not true. You were just arguing that these terms relate to survival. People didn’t invent the conditions conducive to survival, we try to satisfy them (and more). That is what is meant by good and evil being mind-independent or objective features of the world.

    We survive because we evolved with the conditions. THose that didn’t evolve have gone.

    Is lightning evil?

  28. OldOzzie

    Same Problem as Australia

    Russian Pensions and the Risk of War – WSJ

    Putin raises the retirement age, inflaming the street. Will he find an external enemy to shore up support?

    In the streets of more than 80 Russian cities, thousands of men and women have turned out for antigovernment rallies in the past few months. They aren’t the usual malcontents—the middle class, intelligentsia or students—but rabotyagi, blue-collar working st##fs. Both the cause of the rallies and their political context reveal the impoverishment of Russia and the fragility of Vladimir Putin’s regime, despite its outward appearance of toughness. The West, however, shouldn’t gloat; facing problems at home, Mr. Putin could try to create new problems abroad.

    The demonstrators are protesting Mr. Putin’s pension law, introduced in June. The law is meant to save the Russian treasury $15 billion a year by 2024 by gradually increasing the retirement age to 65 from 60 for men, and to 60 from 55 for women. At first glance, the reform doesn’t seem dramatic enough to stir such passions. Russian pensions are skimpy anyway, averaging around $220 a month. That’s barely above the Russian poverty line of $171 and among the lowest rates in Europe.

    Yet for millions of Russians, an extra five years of work is a hard blow. At $592 a month, the average Russian salary is puny. That’s why Russia today can have near-full employment, while 14% of the population, or 20 million Russians, are in poverty, as per official statistics. Independent experts from the Higher School of Economics in Moscow estimated last year that 41% of Russians have trouble paying for clothing and food. For many, the choice is between near-poverty while working or near-poverty while staying home.

    Life expectancy for Russian men is under 67, not even two full years past the new, higher-than-ever retirement age. Many men fear they’ll literally be worked to death. “With this pension reform, with everything pushed back, I feel like I’ll never get out,” a railway worker said last month.

    The protests exposed a fissure in what might be called Mr. Putin’s contract with the Russian people: You stay out of politics and I’ll give you stability. The contract held up in past tough times, most notably in 2008-09, when the Russian economy contracted almost 8% after oil prices fell. Then, difficulties could be blamed on external factors. No such excuses exist today. Incomes have declined for four consecutive years, and the pain is self-inflicted—Russians feel that Mr. Putin’s regime has stabbed them in the back.

    Hence Mr. Putin’s unprecedented nationally televised appeal on Aug. 29. In 18 years in power, Mr. Putin had never made a plea for support for a specific policy like this. The speech was heartfelt, animated, cajoling—and not nearly enough. According to Russian polls, 6% were in favor of the pension reform before the speech and 80% opposed it. After Mr. Putin had spoken, the numbers were 11% and 75%.

    Mr. Putin’s approval ratings—his regime’s only claim on legitimacy—have been steadily sliding, from 79% in May, before the reform was announced, to 67% in September. These would be astronomically high numbers in a democracy, but they’re bad news in a country where Mr. Putin is effectively the only politician and no critic is ever allowed on television.

    Mr. Putin’s headache can quickly become the West’s. At the end of 2013, when his ratings were his lowest in 13 years (and only 6 points below today’s), he boosted them with the outrageous Winter Olympics—doping en masse—followed by the seizure and annexation of Crimea and the war against Ukraine. Since then, militarized patriotism has become the key to Mr. Putin’s popularity. Tens of millions of Russians have been swayed by his narrative: Russia is surrounded by enemies but not only will the president protect the Motherland, he will also restore Russian glory lost in the Soviet collapse.

    The Russian people have tolerated a lot: the upkeep and economic development of Crimea to the tune of nearly $3 billion a year; the estimated $100 billion to $150 billion direct and indirect costs of Western sanctions; and two defense modernization programs, together totaling around $650 billion. In addition to these programs, spending on military and police is projected to grow by 33% in the next three years. Yet the protests indicate Russian patience has limits.

    Mr. Putin has been riding the tiger of patriotic fervor, but the beast is difficult to dismount and it demands fresh meat, the bloodier the better. Today, as pension reform threatens Mr. Putin’s support, it might be feeding time again. The obvious targets for engineering another Crimea or Ukraine are Narva and Latgale, the heavily Russian-speaking enclaves in Estonia and Latvia, respectively. In addition to unleashing a patriotic flood, Mr. Putin would undoubtedly hope to expose the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as dithering and ineffectual. A risky step to be sure, but in Mr. Putin’s political calculus, foreign adventurism may be less perilous than domestic turmoil.

    A candle worth a kopek once set Moscow ablaze, a Russian saying goes. That’s the pension reform: Its $15 billion in alleged annual savings—tiny compared with Russian spending on defense and aggression in Crimea—are a one-kopek candle that may leave the country in flames. Let’s hope the West has its fire engines ready should the conflagration spread.

  29. Armadillo

    You will not be getting a ride when it is finished if you keep carrying on like that.

    Even Stimpy wouldn’t get in a car with the dude behind the wheel calling himself “Death Giraffe”.

  30. Stimpson J. Cat

    Even Stimpy wouldn’t get in a car with the dude behind the wheel calling himself “Death Giraffe”.

    Can Arky actually drive?
    Do they have cars in New Zealand yet?

  31. Asking the electorate what it wants is not part of Liberal Australian political party policy.

    Fixed it for you.

  32. Death Giraffe

    Count me out.

    ..
    Your loss mate.
    I’ll cancel the inaugeral drive promotional bikini girls then.
    I only ordered them because I thought you would appreciate it.

  33. None

    Maybe get back to us when you know for sure they were men. .
    Abortion is, after all, what women want.
    They are much bigger customers of the service than men, I’ve been told.

    Stimpson.
    At the risk of setting off struth on another demented 3 day rage – some women are pressured into abortion by men, recalling too that in Australia most abortions are actually undertaken by partnered or married women.

    The first of the three senior LNP Senator to break ranks was Steve Minnikin. I don’t think you can call him a woman. He even has male pattern baldness like you.

  34. Armadillo

    I’ll cancel the inaugeral drive promotional bikini girls then.

    Let’s not get too hasty here. I was drunk when I made my last comment. I’ll apologise in the morning.

  35. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    cooperation, empathy is part of a workable survival strategy.

    ..
    Abortionists don’t cooperate? Don’t exhibit empathy?
    Even the worst of mass murderers are capable of cooperation and at a bare minimum successfully simulating empathy.

    killing is also an important part of a workable survival strategy, this is why we need laws.

  36. Makka

    Is there no room left for personal witness to horrible things that go on when evil is given a city pass?

    Yes there is Mark. Of course. But it relies on the witness having a modicum of common sense and being sufficiently educated to understand the extent of his/her ignorance. As an example, if the witness is ignorant to history then there is great difficulty to understand the terrible consequences of the observed event or situation. That ignorance makes intervening then seem unnecessary or pointless.

    The leftfilth have worked tirelessly to eradicate the teaching of history which now is bearing fruit.

  37. None

    So Stimpson the second one was Tim Nicholls. I don’t think he has undergone gender reassignment surgery.
    I’ll leave you to look up the third. Two out of three is already a majority.

  38. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    We are in a motorway services near Coventry. Eating burgers and Hairy is drinking a very foul coffee.

    All the talk back thread here re rolling sad homeless cases to test your conscience or lack of it. As we were leaving Shrewsbury through an endless network of narrow medieval now one-way streets, we see the youngish homeless man we saw the night before walking ahead of us, with the little dog he was hugging now running free on the street. The man moved over flattening himself against the wall but we couldn’t see the dog. Don’t run over the homeless man’s dog, I implored.

    I do not intend ta run over da homeless man’s dog, said Hairy, displaying intense concentration. He had swerved violently yesterday to avoid a bird.

    Bated breath, but the ratty little dog survived.
    Sighs of relief from us, but homeless man unconcerned. I got the feeling that this was a dog used to looking out for itself.

  39. Stimpson J. Cat

    some women are pressured into abortion by men

    Do we have numbers?
    Statistics?
    Or is this just a rough guess?

  40. Special Counsel Robert Mueller is expected to issue findings on core aspects of his Russia probe soon after the November midterm elections as he faces intensifying pressure to produce more indictments or shut down his investigation, according to two U.S. officials.

    Specifically, Mueller is close to rendering judgment on two of the most explosive aspects of his inquiry: whether there were clear incidents of collusion between Russia and Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, and whether the president took any actions that constitute obstruction of justice, according to one of the officials, who asked not to be identified speaking about the investigation.

  41. I was drunk when I made my last comment.

    You mean there are some people posting here at this time of night, who are sober?
    My goodness, you learn something new every day.
    Now excuse me a moment, I need to go top up my wine.

  42. DrBeauGan

    I may have found your post, Death. Was it the one that said you believe in a moral universe, and it meshed with yer cultural heritage?

    That may explain your believing in God, but says nothing at all about your morals. The moral universe stuff is just faff. The cultural heritage stuff leads to moral behaviour only if A. you think your rellies and ancestors should be imitated and B. They showed moral behaviour. So you need to know what moral behaviour is before you can judge them.

    You are in a hole here because you haven’t thought hard enough about it.

  43. Steve trickler

    Fresh footage from the TARDIS.

    1928-1929: Early Sound Footage of Germany



  44. Armadillo

    I’m now pondering why Sheliah jockeys don’t wear bikinis. It’s a sport like beach volleyball.

  45. Stimpson J. Cat

    I mean I find it hard to believe a Woman would feel guilty for getting an abortion and would then blame a Man for it.

    Women simply are not capable of such duplicity.

  46. Confused Old Misfit

    Oh sweet Jesus it’s back and just as stupid as ever!

  47. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    You mean there are some people posting here at this time of night, who are sober?
    My goodness, you learn something new every day.
    Now excuse me a moment, I need to go top up my wine.

    I’ve had a long, foul and scratchy day. More single malt, and bed, with a good book.

  48. Makka

    m0nty
    #2842420, posted on October 17, 2018 at 11:14 pm

    Bloomberg. Fme. You may as well be quoting HuffPo, mOron.

    Special Counsel Robert Mueller is expected to issue findings on core aspects of his Russia probe soon after the November midterm elections

    Yeah, so explosive and so devastating it will have no effect.

    according to one of the officials, who asked not to be identified speaking about the investigation.

    aka as a Bloomie reporter. Lol.

    Red Wave, mUnty.

  49. Confused Old Misfit

    I’m now pondering why Sheliah jockeys don’t wear bikinis. It’s a sport like beach volleyball.

    Occupational Health & safety regulations. The health and safety of the aged male stewards and other jockeys.

  50. Armadillo

    mOnts, how’s the staph going? Or as you like to call it “Golden Staph”. Seems rather elitist.

  51. Death Giraffe

    you think your rellies and ancestors should be imitated

    ..
    Th old testament is a near perfect explanation of how a people should behave as they carve out a place for themselves in the world.
    The New Testiment is a perfect explanation of how a man shoukd behave in the circumstances whereby his civilisation has been annexed, his world is falling apart and his people face the real possibility of anihilation.
    Almost everything worth imitating is contained therein.

  52. None

    Stimpson South Australia has kept statistics for numbers of abortions and reason for abortion four decades. It was actually the feminazis who pushed to have that legislated. All abortions in South Australia are conducted in a public clinic at the main hospital and a report is tabled each year to Parliament and you can look them up online at your leisure. It’s a little bit more awkward now with chemical abortion but doctors are also required to report those .
    Now it does get a bit tricky if you want to get the details released, you have to be very clever with the foi requests. This is because the feminists now no longer like the transparency. The last detailed breakdown I have is about 10 years old. A general rule of thumb is that South Australia represents 10% of the Australian population with roughly proportional breakdowns although this rule of thumb is slowly changing given South Australia is ageing faster than elsewhere.
    WA started keeping proper statistics on nber and reasons for abortions only a few years ago. I don’t think the other states have tried because the numbers in Victoria in particular are horrific and like I said stats on reasons are a little bit like ultrasounds: they reveal hidden truths. There is the opposite of course men who want their babies and women who choose to abort them anyway but it is difficult to discern from the States because men are deliberately excluded from the equation. As I have stated many times on this blog I find that outrageous and unjust.
    For these you have to rely on individual studies etc in journals
    I’m getting a little bit tired of the part geriatric part neurotic Men’s Shed that is congregated at the Cat. If you can’t handle the truth stay away from light sources. And for one who claims to have a particular interest in the issue you seem somewhat uninformed. Do your own homework. I’m not your mother. Night again.

  53. Death Giraffe

    his civilisation has been annexed, his world is falling apart and his people face the real possibility of anihilation.

    ..
    And his existing religion and priests used as a tool by that people’s conquerers.

  54. Occupational Health & safety regulations. The health and safety of the aged male stewards and other jockeys.

    Not to mention competitive edge. What male jockey would want to pass, and so lose sight of, some cute female rider directly in front of him, in a g-string, with her head down and her pert bum riding high in the saddle.

    We mere males are simply not cut out to handle that sort of distraction.

  55. DrBeauGan

    Occupational Health & safety regulations. The health and safety of the aged male stewards and other jockeys.

    Damn that elfin safe tea.

  56. Snoopy

    Host Tony Jones: Frankly, I read the report also and it said that multi­dimensional poverty was cut sharply, and that incomes went up, so you read a different report.

    What the report said. Impact Evaluation Millennium Villages Project in Northern Ghana, August:

    The project … did not meet its stated goals … The evaluation observed no impact … on the level of poverty or hunger … child mortality, immunisation rates, antenatal care, access to drinking water … the results could have been achieved at significantly lower costs.

    Snowcone lied. Children died.

  57. Armadillo

    The New Testiment is a perfect explanation of how a man shoukd behave in the circumstances whereby his civilisation has been annexed, his world is falling apart and his people face the real possibility of anihilation.

    I’d much prefer to nuke someone rather than get nailed to a cross. Trump may well be a “new and improved God”. Lessons learned.

  58. Death Giraffe

    The moral universe stuff is just faff

    ..
    The underlying nature if the universe did not lead to the existence of a people with a moral sense?
    In order for that to be true either:
    People with a moral sense don’t exist.
    or:
    Their existence is not a product of the underlying nature of the universe.
    or otherwise: It isn’t of consequence that the most sophisticated and intelligent product of the universe that we know of is mainly concerned with morals.
    Can you expand on which you think is the case, and why?

  59. Death Giraffe

    I’d much prefer to nuke someone rather than get nailed to a cross. Trump may well be a “new and improved God”. Lessons learned.

    ..
    Which exists 2000 years later: Christianity or Imperial Rome?

  60. DrBeauGan

    Th old testament is a near perfect explanation of how a people should behave as they carve out a place for themselves in the world.
    The New Testiment is a perfect explanation of how a man shoukd behave in the circumstances whereby his civilisation has been annexed, his world is falling apart and his people face the real possibility of anihilation.
    Almost everything worth imitating is contained therein.

    There’s much in that, Death.

    I’m not denying that the Bible contains wisdom. I’ve quoted from the new testament to show how it tells you why making a billion dollars from rolling bums is a bad idea. But it’s being a bad idea is because of what it does to the bum roller. It has nothing to do with whether God exists.

    You can build an ethical system on self-respect. Confucius did something very close two and a half thousand years ago.

  61. mh

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    6m
    August job openings hit a record 7.14 million. Congratulations USA!

  62. Mark Bolton

    Makka
    #2842416, posted on October 17, 2018 at 11:08 pm
    Is there no room left for personal witness to horrible things that go on when evil is given a city pass?

    Yes there is Mark. Of course. But it relies on the witness having a modicum of common sense and being sufficiently educated to understand the extent of his/her ignorance.

    So we may need to refute the towering military Lefty berms of dead trees with a compelling Narrative? Being Truthfull might even add some Rosemary to the Soup of the Home. Having truthfully testimony. At ayn Hirsh Ali Salman Rushdie .. Hebdo. Real people are dieing in the streets and you cant just be fucking beta males as a form of masturbationthen killing the progeny. Forget about counting the cells. God gave you a life and it is your to propagate.

    Minestrone.

  63. Mitch M.

    cooperation, empathy is part of a workable survival strategy.

    Exactly. Even single celled organisms co-operate. Biofilms are not all of a one, the individual cells will take on specific functions relative to their position in the film. Single celled organisms will commit suicide as a means of preventing the spread of phage infection throughout the colony. The evolution of complex cells is entirely contingent on two different organisms learning to get along in a symbiotic relationship.

  64. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    these stories are great

  65. Armadillo

    Which exists 2000 years later: Christianity or Imperial Rome?

    Both. Everything is a product of history.

  66. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    We mere males are simply not cut out to handle that sort of distraction.

    Think of crushed ice, cricket, and chamber music. Works every time.

  67. Dillo, I am due to meet tomorrow with an infectious disease specialist. Will know more about the future after that. Current infestation almost completely gone, the flucloxacillin has finally done the trick.

  68. Think of crushed ice, cricket, and chamber music.

    If you can do that in the circumstances I described, then you’re a better man than I am, Bunged It In.

  69. DrBeauGan

    The underlying nature if the universe did not lead to the existence of a people with a moral sense?
    In order for that to be true either:
    People with a moral sense don’t exist.
    or:
    Their existence is not a product of the underlying nature of the universe.
    or otherwise: It isn’t of consequence that the most sophisticated and intelligent product of the universe that we know of is mainly concerned with morals.
    Can you expand on which you think is the case, and why?

    The underlying nature of the universe permits the existence of you, me, gila monsters, mosquitoes, the AIDS virus,dinosaurs, the ichneumon wasp and gravity waves. Concentrating on the most sophisticated and intelligent ones we know about, is very speciesist. If you want to deduce morality, you need to look harder at the ichneumon wasp.

    Given that we are going to focus on the human species, just to indulge you, we are a social species with a crude language. In fact more than one. So we can communicate, up to a point, and evolution has selected, as Zippy pointed out, for empathy. And also social evolution has selected for rules for living together that promote a certain amount of civil peace. So if you want to say we live in a moral universe, all I can do is point to Islam and the Andaman islands and suggest we have a fair way to go.

    Yes, the Bible does contain some good insights. The what does it professionals a man line hit me like a bomb when I was a child. But God or his existence is irrelevant to that, it’s about being a human being.

  70. Armadillo

    Dillo, I am due to meet tomorrow with an infectious disease specialist.

    Chin up. You know the routine. Deny everything and blame the filthy rich if things don’t work out.

  71. Makka

    these stories are great

    Some are very compelling. People from all walks of life. LOTS of women walking away which is great news.

  72. DrBeauGan

    what does it professionals a man line hit

    Bloody autofuckup. That was “What shall it profit a man…”

    But you knew that.

  73. Death Giraffe

    So if you want to say we live in a moral universe, all I can do is point to Islam and the Andaman islands and suggest we have a fair way to go.

    ..
    Thats a yes from you then.
    We live in a moral universe and the nature of that morality is a life and death issue for us all.

  74. Armadillo

    mOnts should have taken up the offer of Malamo. He wouldn’t be in this predicament. Not too late to sponsor a trip to Cuba though. Excellent healthcare #savemOnts

  75. Mark Bolton

    DrBeauGan
    #2842454, posted on October 17, 2018 at 11:55 pm

    Snip ……, it’s about being a human being.

    Perhaps then concentrate on honing persuasive expressions of your morality that speak to that level of the protocol stack?

  76. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    If you can do that in the circumstances I described, then you’re a better man than I am, Bunged It In.

    Back in the day, I had the misfortune to have a work colleague, who regarded a mini skirt that barely covered her bottom, and a fairly monumental cleavage, artfully displayed, as perfectly legitimate tools to have all the men in the office eating out of her hand, and covering for her repeated stuff – ups. Except one…

  77. DrBeauGan

    So, Death, your belief appears to be that because this planet has evolved a species which goes around brooding about the difference between right and wrong, the universe has a moral dimension.

    It has also evolved a species which goes around sucking our blood. We call them mosquitoes. Does this mean that the universe has a blood sucking dimension?

  78. JC

    Pocahontas seems to be really damaged. Her twitter feed is wall to wall about Trump. Officially it’s a flip out.

    https://twitter.com/elizabethforma/with_replies

  79. JC

    Rones

    In which universe did you ever work in an office? You have to stop the drinking as the delusions are getting worse.

  80. None

    OMG the header image on Pocahontas Twitter page is hilarious.

  81. JC

    She’s gone crazy, Ginnie. Trump should theoretically stop because Pocs could end up in a very unsafe space. On second thoughts maybe he shouldn’t. 🙂

  82. DrBeauGan

    The evolution of complex cells is entirely contingent on two different organisms learning to get along in a symbiotic relationship.

    Which, at a considerable stretch, becomes Death’s moral dimension to the universe.

    It’s a fairly bizarre way of looking at it.

  83. Mark Bolton

    JC
    #2842465, posted on October 18, 2018 at 12:09 am

    NPC Unit Warren. Register overflow error with no catch code. Officially it’s a flip out. We will get away with this.

  84. None

    Where is Peter Campion books like my intuition was right. And all I do is read the news. This just posted on Twitter about an hour ago.:

    Sharri Markson

    @SharriMarkson

    ·

    1h

    Nats MPs who back Barnaby Joyce are discussing a spill motion­ against Michael McCormack next week. The escalating campaign against the Deputy PM prompted him to make a pitch for his leadership and call for stability. Story with

    @rharris334

    @SheradynNews

    They are talking leadership rumble next week, so yeah after Wentworth.

  85. JC

    Get a load of the polling in MA

    UMass Lowell* 10/1 – 10/7 485 LV 5.6 56 31 Warren +25
    WBUR/MassINC* 9/17 – 9/21 506 LV 4.4 56 30 Warren +26
    Boston Globe/Suffolk* 9/13 – 9/17 500 LV 4.4 54 24 Warren +30
    Boston Globe/Suffolk 6/8 – 6/12 500 LV 4.4 55 33 Warren +22
    WBUR/MassINC* 5/22 – 5/26 501 RV 4.4 55 19 Warren +36
    WBUR/MassINC* 3/16 – 3/18 504 RV 4.4 55 20 Warren +35
    WBUR/MassINC* 11/9 – 11/12 504 RV 4.4 58 32 Warren +26
    WBUR/MassINC 6/19 – 6/22 504 RV 4.4 60 29 Warren +31

    You could could someone and the punters in Mass. don’t care if you’re a D’ratter. They don’t care.

    Hang on, they really don’t care. Kennedy actually did kill someone and they still voted him in, so lying about your ancestors is no biggie.

  86. None

    I’m all for pushing her over the edge into Early Retirement JC but we know how the luvvies will go on about that. The best option is to bankrupt her instead.

  87. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Call the hotline, JC. Your “Roonery Derangement Syndrome” has kicked in again, and, as you know, it’s all downhill from here. You’ll be raving on about “Roones”, whoever they are, all night, and it’s not a pretty sight.

  88. DrBeauGan

    Perhaps then concentrate on honing persuasive expressions of your morality that speak to that level of the protocol stack?

    I’m already close to boring most people here to insanity. If anyone finds me less than lucid they can jump on me. It’s how we do things here.

  89. JC

    lol, Rones, you should really stop with the bullshit stories of yours. The only way you ever worked in an office environment is if the universe is in a simulation and another Ronery from a parallel universe has taken your place. Now that’s possible I guess.

  90. JC

    One other thing Rones, this pretending you have no idea who Rones or Ronery is makes you appear even stupider. There’s not a single person here, who doesn’t know I’m referring to you, you fuckwit.

  91. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    One other thing Rones, this pretending you have no idea who Rones or Ronery is makes you appear even stupider. There’s not a single person here, who doesn’t know I’m referring to you, you fuckwit.

    Nurse, wipe JC’s chin – he’s dribbling again – and make sure he’s taken his meds. He’s raving on about “Ronery” again. He’ll need his incontinence pads changed, soon.

  92. JC

    I really don’t appreciate your attitude, Ronery and it’s pissing me off.

  93. DrBeauGan

    Mark

    I don’t speak Russian.

    Talking in jargon is fine if you like talking to yourself. Hoping to impress others with a command of jargon is just wankery.

    Mark, ask yourself how you’d feel about being talked to in Greek. Or Sioux.

  94. Mark Bolton

    DrBeauGan
    #2842476, posted on October 18, 2018 at 12:20 am
    … I’m already close to boring most people here.. snip…

    Have enjoyed our stroll down the path to .. who knows? .. A perfect world ? .. A pile of skulls? ..An enemy abush where we are both slaughtered and our women and kids serve those militarily and historicly more astute than us? Should brought that Kalashnikov back at Pozbourneistan. Never mind.

  95. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I really don’t appreciate your attitude, Ronery and it’s pissing me off.

    I’m sure Ronery, whoever he is, will echo my call for you to feel pissed off as soon as you like. Feel free to fuck off, you may have been something on this blog, but those days are long past.

  96. Mitch M.

    Which, at a considerable stretch, becomes Death’s moral dimension to the universe.

    Except that .77 of all humans die before 6 weeks.

    There is a practical issue that is typically overlooked. Consider what happens with a human born with barely more than a brainstem. No vision, no hearing, not even a P300 response. Modern technology makes it possible to keep that human alive for months if not years but the costs will run into 6 figure sums per annum. People who insist that abortion is always wrong should pay for that but they won’t, they’ll hive it off to the State which means everyone pays for it. It is easy to maintain principles on paper but if you don’t have the courage of your convictions why should I care about your principles?

    Forget the rubbish that you need some absolute moral principles to live well or that you need some religious conviction for that. There are hundreds of millions of people who have absolutely no interest in such matters who are respectable members of modern societies. The argument is so demonstrably wrong I don’t know why people even mount such an stupid argument against atheists.

  97. Stimpson J. Cat

    I’m getting a little bit tired of the part geriatric part neurotic Men’s Shed that is congregated at the Cat. If you can’t handle the truth stay away from light sources. And for one who claims to have a particular interest in the issue you seem somewhat uninformed. Do your own homework. I’m not your mother. Night again.

    Hang on.
    You said:

    At the risk of setting off struth on another demented 3 day rage – some women are pressured into abortion by men, recalling too that in Australia most abortions are actually undertaken by partnered or married women.

    Where is the proof women are pressured into abortion by men?

  98. Mark Bolton

    The great American thinker and octopus aficianado PZ Myers thought much the same concerning my attempts at prognostication. He and his friends won thier discussions with me concerning the desirability of a second Clinton presidency. Remarkably it involved deleting every one of my posts during the discussion. Huzza PZ on vanquishing the rootless cosmopolitan countersignaler.

  99. Stimpson J. Cat

    Mark stop teasing the NPCs.

  100. None

    A man has been charged with stealing over $400,000 from about 200 disabled people in the first arrest linked to the NDIS.

    No one he knew what a ponzi scheme the NDIS is is surprised at this. This is only one they’ve managed to actually nabB
    which means they would be 10 that they haven’t and probably never will. The whole NDIS is a racketeer’s dream.

  101. DrBeauGan

    Forget the rubbish that you need some absolute moral principles to live well or that you need some religious conviction for that. There are hundreds of millions of people who have absolutely no interest in such matters who are respectable members of modern societies. The argument is so demonstrably wrong I don’t know why people even mount such an stupid argument against atheists.

    I guess it makes people who can’t live with doubts and uncertainty feel better about themselves. It takes a lot of special pleading though.

  102. None

    Is P Z Meyer still around. I remember when he started up his blog years and years ago. What was it called Pharyngula I think. I read it occasionally. He was just a sanctimonious f****** prick. I mean who knows what he raved on about with biology but he was a nasty teenage level atheist. I found him dishonest. He got into big trouble about something and I’m trying to rack my brain to remember what it was.

  103. Oh come on

    m0nty has nothing. Everything is going well for Trump right now. It’s bizarre to pop up acting all triumphalist about that – what’s his name? Mullen? Boller? Boiler? Bunion? Yeah that’s about it. Special Counsel Bunion’s interminable investigation into a boil.

    I mean, seriously. Let me help you out, m0nty. There is a pretty good chance that the Dems reclaim the house on Nov 6. Senate is remote but the house is worth betting on. You’ve got nothing else. Boiler is a busted flush. Or Mewler is a busted flush, maybe that’s better. In any event, why not wait until Nov 6, because then you might actually have something worthwhile to skite about?

    The fact is you’ve skited for almost two years and have brought nothing for almost two years. You’ve been humiliating yourself this whole time over the failure of Boiler/Mewler to turn up anything of any importance. I’ll give you a tip. Pivot to skiting about your predicted Dem gains in Congress. It could conceivably happen.

    Mewlerween 2018…yeah nah not so much.

  104. JC

    Saudis are really bad people. Can you imagine the pool of blood where they chopped this guy up, who was supposedly still alive.

    KHASHOGGI MURDER AUDIO: A Saudi forensic specialist can be heard recommending other people present listen to music while he dismembered Khashoggi’s body, according to Turkish officials, who shared details of the audio recording with the US & the Saudis.

  105. Oh come on

    I like that blog, JC. Was it headlining Drudge or something? It’s astonishingly newsworthy. I think the entire world needs to know of these anecdotes.

  106. Oh come on

    The Khashoggi thing – meh. That’s how they do business in that part of the world.

  107. C.L.

    Release the audio or it’s bullshit.

  108. DrBeauGan

    Have enjoyed our stroll down the path to .. who knows? .. A perfect world ? .. A pile of skulls?

    Depends on the company you keep. We tend to deprecate piles of skulls on the Çat. We’ve bought into new-fangled ideas here. In fact we have a lot of idea fanglers of all types.

    Nothing like a bit of fangling to clear the bronchial tubes.

  109. Mitch M.

    I guess it makes people who can’t live with doubts and uncertainty feel better about themselves.

    On another forum not 10 minutes ago I cited 3 findings relevant to addiction and mental health treatments. I then stated I still cannot understand why Agent X is often preferred by so many recovering addicts even though I can present plausible arguments for the same. In some respects the causes of behavior are obvious but those “causes” are not scientific explanations they are intuitive explanations. The reason why we don’t question our intuitive explanations is because these are just seem obvious and even trained professionals can fall to many errors arising from typical heuristics we employ almost without thinking so it is not surprising that AI based diagnostics are now beating humans in a number of studies. As B. Russell once said: one of the first challenges in philosophy is to recognise a problem exists.

  110. DrBeauGan

    The Khashoggi thing – meh. That’s how they do business in that part of the world.

    Yep. That’s Death’s moral dimension of the universe in action.

  111. Oh come on

    Even if they do release the audio, meh. That’s the way things are done in the ME. If people don’t like it, they can always back Israel.

  112. Mark Bolton

    DrBeauGan
    #2842493, posted on October 18, 2018 at 12:52 am

    I kinda love the harmonic inclusion of precipitous thoughts and inclinations that has found its way into your life’s endeavour.

    Just wondering if any of those sports or past times involved manly pursuits like spear fishing. Surfing . Rock climbing .. hang gliding … sports aerobatics…

    Not being a Charlie Uniform November Tango on the preference for manly pursuits … rope work .. ballet .. classical music and Narrating Classical Poetry is as manly as the uvvver stuff but the birds really like it.

    Read them some Kipling doing the voice right and stuff and your sick will be wet forever. Western Civilization rah rah.

  113. JC

    It’s a great blog, OCO. It’s a steady workman like blog. Rones needs to take more interest in it to help it grow.

  114. Oh come on

    Yep. That’s Death’s moral dimension of the universe in action.

    What the hell are you crapping on about, Dr B?

  115. DrBeauGan

    On another forum not 10 minutes ago I cited 3 findings relevant to addiction and mental health treatments. I then stated I still cannot understand why Agent X is often preferred by so many recovering addicts even though I can present plausible arguments for the same. In some respects the causes of behavior are obvious but those “causes” are not scientific explanations they are intuitive explanations. The reason why we don’t question our intuitive explanations is because these are just seem obvious and even trained professionals can fall to many errors arising from typical heuristics we employ almost without thinking so it is not surprising that AI based diagnostics are now beating humans in a number of studies. As B. Russell once said: one of the first challenges in philosophy is to recognise a problem exists.

    Sometimes the data a human being gets are wholly internal, not very public except by long chains of dubious inference, and consequently intuitive explanations are all we’ve got.

    Obviously we should have very limited faith in them. It’s not an area where passionate argument is likely to be useful, but it tends to get it.

  116. None

    The answer is in my comment Stimps. Not very well expressed but it’s in there. You can get those answers in the South Australia and WA detailed stats. And then from individual studies in academic journals. I don’t think the other states keep detailed reasons for abortions but I could be wrong as I haven’t kept up with the latest.
    We’re not talking China here we’re talking subtle power trips. “My boyfriend will move out if I have the baby.” “My husband says he can’t get any more overtime” Oh some of the other unrelated one’s not relate are far worse like: I didn’t want to give up my flat or stuff like that. There is no law here that says you have to have the same rational reason to ask for an abortion. You can twist anything to make it sound like your physical or especially ypur mental health is in danger. I know of two instances from personal circles, over the years. One of those two women had had two abortions one of which was under pressure the other one was her own choice. When I knew her she had one adult son and no partner.

    I have some old stats on my old laptop but I don’t lift a finger for anyone on any blog. If I can manage to gather that information you can too. If you can’t be arsed then you’re just going to have to take my word for it.

  117. DrBeauGan

    Just wondering if any of those sports or past times involved manly pursuits like spear fishing. Surfing . Rock climbing .. hang gliding … sports aerobatics…

    Martial arts, including chess and Go. Also some fencing and shooting, but not much of the latter.

  118. DrBeauGan

    Oh, and archery. I figured out that learning how to kill people might come in handy one day.

  119. Mark Bolton

    None
    #2842494, posted on October 18, 2018 at 12:54 am

    Is P Z Meyer still around..

    Unless a wooden stake has been driven through his wretched frame then the answer is sadly probably.

  120. DrBeauGan

    And knife throwing. Although I’ve lost the knack these days.

  121. Mark Bolton

    DrBeauGan
    #2842511, posted on October 18, 2018 at 1:19 am

    Oh, and archery. I figured out that learning how to kill people might come in handy one day.

    You never tried a Welsh wife? …

  122. None

    C.L.

    #2842500, posted on October 18, 2018 at 1:04 am

    Release the audio or it’s bullshit.

    First thing I said on another blog on the day the story broke plus it sounds like b******* anyway because it would mean that the Turks had bugged the Saudi Embassy which No Country bloody well admits to. The usual thing with these events is that there is something else going; this is a proxy for other players.

  123. None

    Meyers must be getting old. I’m glad you agree that guy is a viper.

  124. JC

    Spare a thought for an entrepreneurial titan.

    WSJ Obit.

    The obituaries for Paul Allen, who died this week at age 65, all describe him as a co-founder of Microsoft . This is true as far as it goes, but it doesn’t begin to capture his larger impact. His more famous Microsoft partner, Bill Gates, came closer to the truth when he said “personal computing would not have existed without him.”

    What Mr. Gates and Allen pulled off was not simply building an innovative new company. They imagined and then built a new industry that brought computing power to the masses. More than four decades after they wrote their first piece of software, people around the world have more computing power in their smartphones than the computers NASA used to put men on the moon. It takes nothing away from Mr. Gates to say that on their team Allen was the visionary while his partner was more the practical businessman.

    In 1975, when they created the partnership known as Microsoft, they were two kids who had gone to high school together outside Seattle and dropped out of college. If you had asked people at the time which company would dominate computing in the decades to come, most would have answered IBM . Instead Microsoft and Apple would dominate the desktop computer revolution.

    The late 1970s were also a time, not unlike our own, full of angst about whether America’s best days were over. Four years after Microsoft was founded, President Jimmy Carter would famously give his “malaise” speech lamenting “the erosion of our confidence in the future.” The reality is that the U.S. was in the early stages of a new era of entrepreneurship and economic progress.

    After a cancer diagnosis, Allen left Microsoft in 1983 but retained his ownership stake that made him a billionaire. He later became a philanthropist, investor and professional sports owner. But his willingness to take risks as a young man and see a future others didn’t was a signature contribution that should remind Americans that the future is still what creative individuals in a free society make it.

  125. DrBeauGan

    You never tried a Welsh wife? …

    No. An English one and an Aussie one. That was enough to get the general idea.

  126. Mark Bolton

    None
    #2842516, posted on October 18, 2018 at 1:23 am

    Meyers must be getting old. I’m glad you agree that guy is a viper.

    Meyers isn’t getting old or anything , he is mettacitcizing. He is supposed to be a cephalopod bothered but he is cranking his stinking putz as a revolutionary.

  127. None

    Just googled him Mark. Yikes he still around and he has a Wikipedia page and he’s only around 60. Damn. I see Pharyngula is still around but it now has an even more boring format with virtually no one in the comments hahaha. He must be shitting himself with Trump as president.

  128. Mark Bolton

    None,
    I believe I may have found a fellow enthusiast in making your acquaintance.
    I am find a heartfelt enthusiasm for the plight of the earthly cephalopod. The race has so bright a future but only being held down my the Marxist enthusiasms of that PZ Meyers maniac.

  129. None

    LOL Mark. I’m just a fellow enthusiastic believer that P Z Myers is a nasry fool. As for cephalods we just eat them.

  130. Mark Bolton

    None, in all seriousness that P press h for hook Meyers is a very nasty piece of work.

  131. None

    I agree but I have to get to work now. Night!

  132. DrBeauGan

    Watching None and Mark B exchange texts is mind blowing.

    I think their protocol stack needs some work.

  133. Mark Bolton

    None.

    I love cephalopods. I had a Welsh wife who is no longer. I am ambivalent about human beings. I would consider a Vietnamese wife. Provided we lived all g the literal zone, if you know what I mean ” wink slither” .

  134. None

    Go to bed Beaugan. Don’t wonder why not one but two wives left you. Think of the common denominator. Stay sober, rest well and things will always look brighter in the morning. Night.

  135. Mark Bolton

    Dr B your subject is clearly not Information Theory. In you leather elbowed other life.

  136. DrBeauGan

    Dr B your subject is clearly not Information Theory. In you leather elbowed other life.

    You’re on shaky ground, there.

    Not so shaky as None though.

  137. Mark Bolton

    Dr B, I love nothing more in this life than to be proven wrong.

  138. Mark Bolton

    None, my assumption is that you are Neuclear powered rather than subsisting on mere chemical nutrient?

  139. DrBeauGan

    Dr B, I love nothing more in this life than to be proven wrong.

    Give me a definition of entropy from an information theory perspective and I’ll see what I can do.

  140. None

    Mark as I said we survive by eating Cephalods. I have to go now. Talk to Dr Beaugan. He likes you. Night.

  141. Stimpson J. Cat

    It’s like watching robots attempt to flirt.
    Jesus Christ I’m going to bed.

  142. DrBeauGan

    Mark B, I hope you come equipped with high levels of scepticism about None’s perspicacity.

  143. DrBeauGan

    It’s like watching robots attempt to flirt.
    Jesus Christ I’m going to bed.

    Yes, a similar thought had occurred to me, Stimpy. But it has a horrid fascination. Why don’t you join in?

  144. Mark Bolton

    Dr B , I love your efforts an would never want to get into a stupid pissing match with you. So I won’t go all faggotyy and do any research.

    Just straight off .. Entropy is the number of extant mirostates that are posited in a system.. And within the constrains of that system how many occupy unordered . .. Or some such.. ?

  145. DrBeauGan

    I suppose Mark B is doing some heavy googling about now.

  146. struth

    Hey Stimpson

    You’re the sanest guy here.

    Sucks doesn’t it?

  147. DrBeauGan

    That’s bullshit, Mark. I am not big on bullshit. If you don’t know what you are talking about it’s better to shut up.

  148. Mark Bolton

    Dr B no I said I wouldn’t and I didn’t.

  149. Mark Bolton

    Dr B , why would I be doing some ” lipstick on a pig ” googling to make some headway on my presumptive expertise on Entropy.?

  150. DrBeauGan

    Hey Stimpson

    You’re the sanest guy here.

    Sucks doesn’t it?

    I’m the sanest guy here. But Stimpy has the best sense of humour.

  151. Mark Bolton

    Now if we were all in a big old battle for the vindication of Western Civilization how do you guys reckon we are holding up right about now. With your clever arguments and such?

  152. DrBeauGan

    Dr B , why would I be doing some ” lipstick on a pig ” googling to make some headway on my presumptive expertise on Entropy.?

    Your earlier comment suggested you thought you knew more about information theory than I did. So I thought I’d find out if you knew anything by asking for a definition of one of the more basic terms. If you didn’t have a clue, as you didn’t, it would rather suggest you are a pretentious wanker. It is reasonable to conjecture that you’d prefer that not to happen, and you might have hoped to Google your way out of trouble. Not trying was wise.

  153. DrBeauGan

    Now if we were all in a big old battle for the vindication of Western Civilization how do you guys reckon we are holding up right about now. With your clever arguments and such?

    If we were, we’d have to be weirder than Stimpy.

  154. Mark Bolton

    Well Mr B “bow tie guy” aint we lucky to have you on our team?

  155. Cpt Seahawks

    And knife throwing. Although I’ve lost the knack these days.

    I’m great at that when I play darts… 1 5 1 ..the lady is safe every time..

  156. Mark Bolton

    Cpt Seahawks
    #2842550, posted on October 18, 2018 at 2:46 am

    I so miss my Welsh Lady. She will always be safe. But if ever an emergency arose my Welsh Lady would make the Ebola Gay look like a fire cracker.

    Here’s to Welsh Ladies, and cephalopods.

  157. Cpt Seahawks

    CNN was so entertaining today, I want more! Love WA time. Lemonhead for breakfast, weird accent globotards for night cap.

  158. Cpt Seahawks

    To Welsh Ladies, and of course, Cephalopoda, cheers to you too.

  159. Mark Bolton

    Cpt Seahawks
    #2842553, posted on October 18, 2018 at 2:55 am

    I have sailed some chop. Sometimes it is best to cast ones eyes overboard lest the gills take green. Why would one deliberately watch CNN?

  160. Cpt Seahawks

    A bit off chops yes.
    Just to see the panic.

  161. Mark Bolton

    Cpt Seahawks

    And smooth sailing on illuminating voyages to you also Sir!

    ~salute~

  162. I am bespoke

    None
    #2842255, posted on October 17, 2018 at 8:39 pm

    Thanks for the reply. To your first point I am comfortable my reactions to were justified but that does not mean I shouldn’t have done in a more constructive way. I don’t right anyone off unless they tern out to be habitual jerks then life’s to short to bother.

    As to who goes to heaven: Iv always been perplexed at the notion that anyone can go if they repent regardless of what they did on earth.

  163. Tom

    JC at 12.54am:

    Birdie, is that you?

    Why, yes it is, JC. A fitting enswampment of the past two open freds. What a sewer. Alas, the Cat’s chief janitor, Calli, is touring the world, so His Doomlordship will have to mop up the mess himself.

  164. DrBeauGan

    Ben Garrison is not very kind to Stormy Daniels. I guess after her book she doesn’t inspire much affection from anyone who hasn’t extreme TDS.

  165. Snoopy

    A swamp witch is going down.

    Natalie May Edwards, a senior adviser in the Treasury Department’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), was arrested on Tuesday and charged with unauthorized disclosure of suspicious activity reports, according to the office of U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman. She was expected to make an initial appearance in Virginia federal court later in the day.

    >

    Prosecutors said that beginning in October 2017, Edwards disclosed suspicious activity reports connected to Manafort and his longtime associate Richard Gates, the Russian embassy and accused Russian spy Maria Butina.

  166. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Egg, Cassie won comment of the week on The Oz, and you seemed to denigrate her commenting here. I know her personally as a really fun girlfriend and Hairy thinks she is great too. She is not averse to being feisty in support of her political views, especially re Israel, as her religion is important to her in this battle as well, but surely well-written comments are a good thing on the Cat? I am very loyal to my friends. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying about Cassie and her comments.

    Thanks for speaking up for me at times even if you scroll by my painstakingly tapped out and hence somewhat illiterate phone-ins. Not that I blame you. I would probably scroll me too if it wasn’t me. 🙂

    I would love for more Cats to read my Quadrant article on King Arthur. That is my real legacy to justify my pathetic existence on the planet (that, and my children and making Hairy very happy). When it gets all brought together into a book with further detailed evidence, naturally. So possibly never. However, I have led the way to solving a great historical fabrication and mystery. Good enough, I think.

  167. 2dogs

    Robert Ariail – oof! Very cutting.

  168. Christine Blasey Ford now sending emails to constituents in Wentworth.
    Labor trolling breathlessly brought to you by their ABC.
    Sharma must be doing better than we think.

  169. DrBeauGan

    That is my real legacy to justify my pathetic existence on the planet (that, and my children and making Hairy very happy).

    This is quite the wrong way to think about it, Lizzie. You don’t need to justify your existence, the planet is bloody lucky to have you. That’s a much better perspective. Try it on for size.

    Oh, and the right way to think of the putative book, is a diversion and challenge to make a case. Naturally you give it your best shot, but it is much healthier to regard it as a possibly esoteric way of amusing yourself.

  170. DrBeauGan

    Bugger. Blockquote fail.

    Past my bedtime. I’m in bed but being kept awake by my wretched disease.

  171. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Well, it’s the cheaper early hours, so here goes. Against our friends’ traffic advice we ventured into Cambridge to revisit some of Hairy’s old undergraduate haunts, as the friends are flying in from Copenhagen this evening – should be here any minute now. They left a hidden key for us so we could get into their place,and instructions to get the G and T’s ready.

    In Cambridge first thing we,saw qas an undergrad type on a bike hurling the C word at all and sundry in a very loud and upset voice. He disappeared into a dark carpark with a clatter of collapsing bike. Just got his exam results? I suggested to Hairy. On speed, Hairy assessed, with knowledgeable consideration.

    I took his photo in Jesus chimney aka the lane leading down to the main College entrance and we did the walkabout of hos old rooms the dining hall (lovely medieval ceiling), the Chapel where someone startes playing Beethoven’s 3rd on the grand piano (seriously good, assessed Hairy), and the place where he had had his wedding reception when maaried aged 21 to an Australian girl. I took a photograph of him trying to lift with a ‘dead body’ under the arms lift the sculpture of a naked figure falling down in despair, a sculpture entitled ‘Mortal Man’. Hairy’s friends had decided he might get cold in the winter on his pedestal and moved him on occasion inside. They apparently had arrived to take him out one day to find him still snoring at noon. They carried me outside, he tells me. In that dead body lift? I asked. No, in my bed, he answers. They dumped it on the lawn, right dere, and then woke me up.

    We also tut tutted that they had moved the Porter’s Lodge from the front into what used to be a very convenient bar adjacent to the dining hall. I could see that with its ancient wood and stone it would have been a cozy place for a drink. But times have moved on. The Porters now spend little time chasing up recalcitrant drinkers celebrating coming first in the croquet pairs and do a lot more filing and other boring organising of an increased number of students occupying new purpose built accomodation. The place isn’t quite what it used to be, he reminisces. We watch someone trying to punt on the Cam. Stand at the end, not the middle,mate, he offers under his breath, dis is not Oxford.

  172. Why do the media feel the need to lie to embellish a story?
    SKY news threw to a SKY UK feed reporting the royal visit to Dubbo.
    Standing in the rain, the reporter says “Dubbo hasn’t seen rain like this in months”.
    Rain in Dubbo yesterday 5.6mm
    Rain in Dubbo Friday 6th Oct 45mm.

  173. Snoopy

    Farmer Gez
    #2842579, posted on October 18, 2018 at 5:50 am
    Why do the media feel the need to lie to embellish a story?

    The lie IS the story.

  174. Bruce of Newcastle

    The Porters now spend little time chasing up recalcitrant drinkers celebrating coming first in the croquet pairs

    Ah, college! Croquet on the green and the worst food in the living universe. Fond remembrances, except the food.

  175. 2dogs

    unauthorized disclosure of suspicious activity reports

    Does this make any of the case against Manafort “fruit of the poisonous tree”?

  176. Entropy

    Maybe they meant the rain this month. The rain that day was the visual evidence.

    Because it is more than has been seen for a while. Dubbo has had less than half its year to date rainfall. Considering the rest of the year is generally drier anyway, that isn’t good.
    Oct 6 was the wettest day this year.

  177. This was a now you see it, now you don’t item on the ABCs website.
    Maybe its imaginary.

    Cory Bernardi angers livestock industry by using the term ‘lambassador’ in political advertisement
    By political reporter Ellen Coulter
    Updated about 6 hours ago

    Conservative Senator Cory Bernardi has landed himself in a stoush with Australia’s multi-billion-dollar livestock industry after using the term “lambassador” in his promotional material.

    Industry group Meat and Livestock Australia (MLA) has complained to Senator Bernardi about a Facebook post of an Australian Conservatives advertisement fronted by Sam Kekovich.

    Mr Kekovich is a former footballer and media personality, well-known for heading MLA’s Australia Day lamb ads.

    He is also the face of the new Australian Conservatives video, which is promoted on Senator Bernardi’s Facebook page with the phrase “The Lambassador supports Australian Conservatives”.
    MLA demands immediate retraction of advertisement

    MLA has written to Senator Bernardi saying his party has no right to use “lambassador”.

    In the letter, General Counsel Clare Stanwix said the advertisement was a breach of MLA’s intellectual property rights, demanding Senator Bernardi “forever cease and desist”.

    She also said under a funding agreement with the Federal Government, MLA was “expressly forbidden” from engaging in political activity.
    […]

    MLA was “expressly forbidden” from engaging in political activity …
    Yet here they are, throwing themselves into the fray against the AC.

  178. egg_

    Egg, Cassie won comment of the week on The Oz, and you seemed to denigrate her commenting here.

    How about asking Cassie for her opinion?
    Is this a particular lunar phase or summut?

  179. I’m in bed but being kept awake by my wretched disease.

    That’s no way to talk about your fellow cats.

  180. egg_

    Birdie, is that you?

    Preferable to the slurbot.

  181. Snoopy

    MLA was “expressly forbidden” from engaging in political activity …
    Yet here they are, throwing themselves into the fray against the AC.

    The livestock industry has no better ally than the AC. Maybe the MLA is playing 3D chess and giving the AC free publicity?

  182. The livestock industry is not the MLA.

    A holiday farm bureaucracy .

  183. DrBeauGan

    incoherent rambler
    #2842587, posted on October 18, 2018 at 6:45 am
    I’m in bed but being kept awake by my wretched disease.

    That’s no way to talk about your fellow cats.

    That made me laugh, inco, for which much thanks. But the Çats are good. It’s my cold and cough which are giving me gyp. My pipes are making noises like dying kittens every time I breathe out. It makes getting to sleep impossible. I will be a pile of shit tomorrow and I have a lunch date. I should probably cancel on the grounds I might pass on the plague.

  184. John Constantine

    https://congress.nff.org.au/

    Note how many times diversity appears in the agenda for the annual congress.

    Their nff and mlc are now progressive revolutionary freedom fighters for vegynsys wymynsys diversys Stalinism and regime change.

    More godless commo vegans occupying the nff and mlc offices than in the entire livestock industry that pays their wages.

    Won’t be long before their waleed, the golden calf is the new face of Australia day lamb advertising

  185. John Constantine

    The Australia day lamb campaign is a bucket of money and cultural landmark that offended their left and was the target for the billion dollars bully pulpit of their abc.

    We have signed Paris accord on decimating australias livestock industry, and while it is too soon to rebadge the meat and livestock corporation as the algae,fungus and rebirthed sewerage corporation, that sad day is coming.

    Taxfunded.

    Comrades.

  186. John Constantine

    https://www.mla.com.au/globalassets/mla-corporate/meat-safety-and-traceability/documents/livestock-production-assurance/record-keeping/lpa-audits/22790-lpa-audit-checklist_web.pdf

    Seriously, the occupied stalinistvegynsys progressive wymynsys producer funded meat authority has declared war on the poor bastards funding it and is now launching a Big State audit of all livestock producers to enforce diversity, groupthink and the glorious one party state.

    Don’t let the Peoples Compliance Officer catch you with a MAGA hat on.

    Comrades.

  187. DrBeauGan

    We have signed Paris accord on decimating australias livestock industry, and while it is too soon to rebadge the meat and livestock corporation as the algae,fungus and rebirthed sewerage corporation, that sad day is coming.

    Taxfunded.

    Comrades.

    Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first drive mad, John Con. Thanks for your posts from the front. I find them valuable if depressing.

  188. “I have an animal with an electronic tag of this ID (xxxx), can you tell me who it belongs to?”

    “I’m sorry sir, we can’t divulge that information due to our privacy policy.”

    Dead set.

  189. Very true IR. Been there done that.
    Tracking for a stray stock is best done by a call to a local livestock agent.

  190. DrBeauGan

    “I have an animal with an electronic tag of this ID (xxxx), can you tell me who it belongs to?”

    “I’m sorry sir, we can’t divulge that information due to our privacy policy.”

    Dead set.

    It’s difficult to distinguish between total insanity and acute stupidity.

  191. rickw

    Returned from three weeks on the road to find that our Saudi Muslim infestation has growing nicely.

    At the park, obese and dim witted minders monitoring the activities of the letter boxes.

    One of the letter boxes offspring has been playing with my little guy. The pregnant letter box and her offspring turn up, I give a nod of acknowledgement, nothing, the dead eyes stare ahead.

    I don’t blame them for being stupid goat fuckers, but I do hold completely accountable the wrecker politicians that let them in.

    0% chance of assimilation, 1oo% chance of future jihad.

  192. John Constantine

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/canada/marijuana-pot-cannabis-legalization.html

    Let the Canadians iron the bugs out, but the real world examples so far show that it isn’t like the end of prohibition of alcohol.

    Billions of dollars and millions of research hours gone into the new products, everything you learned about marijuana at uni in the old days may well be wrong.

  193. DrBeauGan

    If the government has to employ useless people to do pointless work that simply obstructs those with real things to produce, why don’t we just give them all coloring in books and crayons and tell them to get on with it. At least they wouldn’t be able to bugger productive people around, and the uselessness of their lives would be obvious even to the dimmest.

  194. Herodotus

    Those objecting to lambassador need to be lambasted.

  195. Tel

    Tom #2842564: Ben Garrison.

    Now that’s just uncalled for.

  196. The mandatory electronic tagging system for stock is designed to track farmers not animals.
    Once you know that, it all makes sense.
    The system will verify your culpability in case of any problem with the stock or meat. You may not be responsible for the issue but unless you have records to prove it you are deemed guilty.
    Last buck in the liability game.

  197. OldOzzie

    Tom

    Thanks

    A Ray of Light in the early morning claptrap on the blog
    and Lizzie I have enjoyed your travel postings

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpuCw9EVAAA2Hsc.jpg:large wins today with Paul Zanetti #2 a close second with his depiction of Greens Leader Richard Di Natale

  198. Baldrick

    Taxpayer funded fakenews outfit caught out again spreading fakenews to help influence the Wentworth by-election:

    Australia’s top doctor on Nauru, Nicole Montana, arrested and deported– ABC
    A senior Australian doctor offering medical care to refugees on Nauru was detained by police and deported from the island this afternoon.
    The ABC has confirmed Dr Nicole Montana was detained by police yesterday evening.

    _____

    Republic of Nauru ✔ @Republic_Nauru
    Media reports that IHMS doctor arrested and deported from Nauru are false. Typical misinformation from sections of media / ABC who never let the facts get in the way of their activist agenda.
    Re ABC and other #FakeNews – There was no removal order issued against the doctor nor was the doctor deported as reported in media. The Government was not aware that the doctor left the island today. Full statement soon.

  199. The mandatory electronic tagging system for stock …

    Is a joke.

    Anyone can rewrite the electronic IDs once they expend a couple of bucks in electronic components on ebay.
    e.g. import some cheap foot and mouth infected sewerage farm livestock and give them electronic IDs belonging to Farmer Gez.

  200. DrBeauGan

    Taxpayer funded fakenews outfit caught out again spreading fakenews to help influence the Wentworth by-election:

    Australia’s top doctor on Nauru, Nicole Montana, arrested and deported– ABC
    A senior Australian doctor offering medical care to refugees on Nauru was detained by police and deported from the island this afternoon.
    The ABC has confirmed Dr Nicole Montana was detained by police yesterday evening.

    _____

    Republic of Nauru ✔ @Republic_Nauru
    Media reports that IHMS doctor arrested and deported from Nauru are false. Typical misinformation from sections of media / ABC who never let the facts get in the way of their activist agenda.
    Re ABC and other #FakeNews – There was no removal order issued against the doctor nor was the doctor deported as reported in media. The Government was not aware that the doctor left the island today. Full statement soon.

    I’m not particularly disposed to believe either side at this point. I expect the government of Nauru is as capable of lying as the ABC. The idea of trusting what we are told has gone. Sensible, honest people don’t believe what they read these days.

    Civilisational collapse looks like this.

  201. OldOzzie

    Go Figure: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs Under Trump Tax Cuts


    Taxes: Critics of the Trump tax cuts said they would blow a hole in the deficit. Yet individual income taxes climbed 6% in the just-ended fiscal year 2018, as the economy grew faster and created more jobs than expected.

    The Treasury Department reported this week that individual income tax collections for FY 2018 totaled $1.7 trillion. That’s up $14 billion from fiscal 2017, and an all-time high. And that’s despite the fact that individual income tax rates got a significant cut this year as part of President Donald Trump’s tax reform plan.
    Income Taxes After Trump Tax Cuts

    True, the first three months of the fiscal year were before the tax cuts kicked in. But if you limit the accounting to this calendar year, individual income tax revenues are up by 5% through September.

    Other major sources of revenue climbed as well, as the overall economy revived. FICA tax collections rose by more than 3%. Excise taxes jumped 13%.

    The only category that was down? Corporate income taxes, which dropped by 31%.

  202. You’re all heart IR.
    The tags have a property ID which is supposed to keep you safe but if you get your hands on one of our tags you could copy it and pin it to any ruminant of dubious parentage.

  203. feelthebern

    KHASHOGGI MURDER AUDIO: A Saudi forensic specialist can be heard recommending other people present listen to music while he dismembered Khashoggi’s body, according to Turkish officials, who shared details of the audio recording with the US & the Saudis.

    Most Cats would know, I view the House of Saud as excrement.
    That said, this is horse shit.
    Or the Turks have bugged the Saudi’s.
    One or the other.
    The apple watch story being passed around has been debunked 10x over.

  204. OldOzzie

    Will the Blue Wave collapse before it reaches the shore? – Washington Post

    If the Blue Wave collapses before it hits shore, Democrats may need to ask whether #MeToo and other forms of identity politics are really the wave of the Democratic future.

    Democrats have been waiting for that wave to crest for a long time, at least since the 2002 publication of “The Emerging Democratic Majority” by John Judis and Ruy Teixeira. That book’s modest thesis suggested that demographic trends would increase traditional Democratic constituencies while slowly shrinking the GOP’s base, as long as Democrats could find a way to hold their then-current coalition together.

    By 2016, many saw that as prophecy: All they needed to do was wait for the GOP’s atavistic denizens to die off, leaving the country to those on the right side of history.

    Yet salvation keeps failing to arrive. We now have the most diverse electorate in American history. If the strong version of the EDM thesis were correct, not even gerrymandering, voter suppression and untimely FBI announcements would have handed Republicans enough power to tip the electoral college in their favor. The prophecy failed. And still, a whole lot of folks seem to be waiting for history to vindicate them.

    A quick glance at actual history shows that it doesn’t have a “right side” where Democrats can dwell; it doesn’t mechanically hand out power to the morally superior, or to the smartest, or to those with the best manners. Elections are won by those who assemble the biggest coalition of citizens to deliver votes where they’re needed.

    After 2016, but especially after Kavanaugh, Democrats should be asking whether an increasing focus on identity politics is actually enlarging their coalition. The more explicitly you target specific identities, the more likely you are to alienate the identities against which they’re implicitly framed. As Nate Cohn of the New York Times wrote in 2016, one way to think about Trump’s victory was that white working-class people started voting like a minority group — and were 40 percent of the electorate.

  205. DrBeauGan

    I’m reading james Craig A Man of Sorrows on my Kindle app. A detective/ police procedural, with a hero who is a cop who happens to be an atheist.

    Lots of gritty realism. I am only a third of the way through, and he has nailed a murderer and beaten up a p3dofile priest already. And discovered the body of a philosopher from LSE who wanted to arrest the pope.

    Good stuff.

  206. DrBeauGan

    I’m reading james Craig A Man of Sorrows on my Kindle app. A detective/ police procedural, with a hero who is a cop who happens to be an atheist.

    Lots of gritty realism. I am only a third of the way through, and he has nailed a murderer and beaten up a p3dofile priest already. And discovered the body of a philosopher from LSE who wanted to arrest the pope.

    Good stuff.

  207. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Let’s face the truth, when the left say diversity, they clearly mean white genocide. They never advocate for more whites in Asia or Africa or any other non white country. They want to erase the free thinking west with their cryptomarxism and fill it with compliant morons. Every left policy these days is about driving down white population numbers, demolishing the family unit, killing the unborn, the aged and anyone else who stands in their way.

    Democratic socialism is nothing but communism with a short skirt and lipstick.

  208. Baldrick

    Industry group Meat and Livestock Australia (MLA) has complained to Senator Bernardi about a Facebook post of an Australian Conservatives advertisement fronted by Sam Kekovich.

    Will Meat and Livestock Australia also issue a cease and desist order to Scotland?

    Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon today (Wednesday 26th August) gave her backing to Quality Meat Scotland’s Scotch Lamb PGI campaign.
    During a visit organised by NFU Scotland to South Slipperfield Farm, West Linton, run by the Dykes family, Ms Sturgeon was presented with one of the Scotch Lambassador kits which QMS is offering free of charge to Scottish farming families.

  209. OldOzzie

    Democrats’ treatment of Kavanaugh was depraved. America won’t reward them at the polls. – Washington Post

    Just a few weeks ago, analysts thought that control of the U.S. Senate was in play this November and that momentum was shifting to the Democrats. Thanks to their brutal campaign of character assassination against now-Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, those chances appear to be slipping away.

    Case in point is Tennessee, where Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn was struggling in her Senate race against popular former Democratic governor Phil Bredesen. In mid-September — after the first Kavanaugh confirmation hearings — a CNN poll showed Blackburn trailing by five points (in a state Donald Trump won by 26 points). But as the ferocity of the attacks on Kavanaugh grew, so did Blackburn’s poll numbers. By early October — after Christine Blasey Ford testified and Kavanaugh was accused of exposing himself to a college classmate and participating in high school gang rapes — a CBS News poll showed that Blackburn had pulled ahead by eight points. And last week, after Kavanaugh was finally confirmed amid scenes of angry protesters banging on the doors of the Supreme Court, a New York Times poll showed Blackburn leading by 14 points. That is a shift of 19 points in one month.

    In other words, the Democrats’ smear campaign of uncorroborated sexual misconduct allegations against Kavanaugh has united Tennessee Republicans behind Blackburn and poured cold water on Democrats’ chances in the Volunteer State.

  210. DrBeauGan

    I’m reading james Craig A Man of Sorrows on my Kindle app. A detective/ police procedural, with a hero who is a cop who happens to be an atheist.

    Lots of gritty realism. I am only a third of the way through, and he has nailed a murderer and beaten up a peed priest already. And discovered the body of a philosopher from LSE who wanted to arrest the pope.

    Good stuff.

  211. feelthebern

    Lol.

    The Oz has the headline “Howard in late bid to rescue Liberals”.
    Coffin meet nail.
    Nail meet coffin.
    FMD the Libs are the Abe Simpson of political parties.

  212. OldOzzie

    Australia stands up at the UN

    Amid the fuss over Scott Morrison’s Jerusalem announcement, our UN representatives were right to join the US and Israel in voting against the non-existent state of Palestine being elected to head one of the world body’s biggest organisations. Their efforts did not stop the General Assembly (by a margin of 146-3) electing the non-UN member as leader of the G77 group of developing countries plus China (it now numbers 135 countries). This is an influential post that has been the preserve of full UN members since 1964.

    The issue highlighted the way Palestinian leaders, while refusing to resume negotiations with Israel, are again embarked on a brazen attempt to achieve statehood through the back door at the UN. As US ambassador Nikki Haley said of what was unquestionably a significant victory for Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas: “The Palestinians are not a UN member state or any other state at all … today’s UN mistake undermines the prospects for peace by encouraging the illusion held by some Palestinian leaders that they can advance their goals without direct peace negotiations.” Our UN ambassador, Gillian Bird, warned: “Palestinian attempts to seek recognition as a state in international forums are deeply unhelpful to efforts towards a two-state solution. Unilateral recognition of Palestinian statehood will not resolve outstanding issues or create conditions for enduring stability.”

    This looming vote was one factor in the Prime Minister’s announcement about a possible relocation of our embassy to Jerusalem. Australia stood up and was counted on the issue while many others stayed away or abstained. UN word games insist Palestine’s G77 post does not imply its recognition as a fully fledged state. That won’t be how Palestinian leaders play it as they preside over a UN body. The tragedy is that the more organisations such as the UN feed the illusion that statehood can be achieved through the back door, the less likely it will be for the Palestinians to engage in peace negotiations without preconditions aimed at a two-state solution, talks the Israelis consistently have offered, only to be rebuffed.

  213. FMD the Libs are the Abe Simpson of political parties.

    How many seats do they need to save at the next election to retain party status?

  214. Tel

    Most Cats would know, I view the House of Saud as excrement.
    That said, this is horse shit.
    Or the Turks have bugged the Saudi’s.
    One or the other.

    Bugging embassies? Are you kidding me? It’s the oldest and most well respected game in town. Of course the Turks would have bugged the Saudis.

  215. OldOzzie

    From The Comments on The Australian Article

    Howard launches late bid to rescue Liberals in Wentworth with letter

    Mark Textor: “The qualitative evidence is they don’t matter. The sum of a more centrist approach outweighs any alleged marginal loss of so-called base voters.”

    It seems that some of the base are still angry, and may well remain so until ScoMo decides to fight for an issue important to conservatives (tax reform, migration and infrastructure, revising 18C of the RDA, etc.”. At the moment he is coming across as a bit of a snake-oil salesman – “and do you want fries with that?”

    So-called progressive issues such as the gay marriage plebiscite (and the Phillip Ruddock distraction that Captain Blather kicked down the road), the rights of lesbian teachers, boat-people, and Australia’s 1.4% contribution to global greenhouse gas emissions do not rate in the top 50 issues of importance to Australians, however they have consumed, convoluted and tortured Australian government for the past three years for zero material result.

  216. Old School Conservative

    Alex Turnbull slyly implies the Libs are Nazis.
    Yet the weak kneed, panty-waisted, cowardly Libs take it on the chin.
    Not one of them raises a counter argument or slams the Turnbull offspring.
    How easy would it be to list the atrocities of the Nazis and put shame on Alex for linking the two?
    A kid could come up with a quip about the desertion of his dad from the party which gave him the most prestigious position in Australia? But the Libs don’t.
    Not even a return of serve along the lines of “well you would say that, given your financial reliance on renewables” or “yeah, you can say that from the comfort of another country”.

    SFL.

  217. OldOzzie

    Gillum’s Anti-Law Enforcement Agenda for Florida

    The past several years have witnessed the radical left using law enforcement as a political target, which has increased the risks for those in uniform and hurt public safety. Andrew Gillum, the so-called “democratic socialist” candidate for governor of Florida, represents the triumph of the progressive left’s approach to law enforcement, and a victory by him in November would lead to a statewide increase in crime.

    That Florida would see such a rise under Gillum is not fanciful speculation but an obvious inference from his tenure as mayor of Tallahassee. On his watch, the city/Leon County metro area has had the highest crime rate in the state for four years running. Last year, Tallahassee had the highest number of murders in the city’s history.

    Incredibly, Gillum’s former chief of staff, Dustin Daniels, who is running to succeed him as mayor, is campaigning aggressively against Gillum’s failed leadership. “Tallahassee had the highest number of murders in history last year,” Daniels wrote in a campaign mailer, “and we top the state for the highest crime rate. WE MUST DO BETTER.”

  218. Rae

    As we were leaving Shrewsbury through an endless network of narrow medieval now one-way streets

    Seems Shrewsbury has changed since our last visit.

  219. Baldrick

    Man wins against a field of women in the Women’s World Championship:

    A Canadian transgender athlete has been slammed by a competitor after becoming the first to win a cycling world championship.
    Dr. Rachel McKinnon, who was born a male, won gold in the women’s 35-44 age bracket at the UCI Masters track championships in Los Angeles on Sunday.
    “First transgender woman world champion…ever*”, she posted on social media alongside a photo on the podium with second- and third-place finishers, Carolien Van Herrikhuyzen of the Netherlands and Jennifer Wagner of the US.

  220. OldOzzie

    $2 billion solar subsidies to send household bills through the roof

    Energy consumers are set to pay nearly $2 billion for rooftop solar installation subsidies next year, hiking power costs by up to $190 for every household, an expert analysis has found.

    The federal government’s small-scale renewable energy scheme (SRES) — which the competition regulator wants wound down and abolished — will result in the cost of subsidies ballooning by 50 per cent to about $1.8 billion including GST in 2019, according to Sydney-based renewables trader Demand Manager.

    The additional impost amid high electricity prices may accelerate calls for the scheme to be junked as new federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor comes under pressure to reduce household power bills.

    The solar industry has previously called for the government to rule out ending the small-scale solar scheme, saying it would deprive households and businesses of their only means of lowering power bills.

    But analysis of the cost of small-scale technology certificates, which are handed to consumers installing solar panels and then bought back by electricity retailers, shows a soaring cost to all power users.

    About 30 million new certificates will be created this year and more than 36 million certificates are forecast to be supplied in 2019, the trader says. The “cost per household in Australia is in the order of $190 per household”, Demand Manager owner Jeff Bye said in a report released yesterday. “The SRES is effectively an uncapped program — the more solar installations, the higher the SRES program cost.”

    A change to the solar subsidy may be imminent given the government’s focus on reducing power prices, Demand Manager told its clients in the report.

    The government-run Clean Energy Regulator earlier this month released figures showing 1600 megawatts of small-scale solar capacity would be installed this year — a 44 per cent jump on 2017 — and the equivalent generation that Victoria’s Hazelwood coal plant supplied to the national grid before it was shut down.

    Victoria’s push to have 650,000 owner-occupied households receive cheap rooftop solar over the next decade will add a further $1bn to the overall cost of the SRES subsidy over its lifespan, its analysis found.

    Origin Energy revealed in August the government’s small-scale renewable energy scheme and state-based solar feed-in tariffs now accounted for up to 15 per cent of bill charges.

    Consultancy Deloitte says that with solar and wind power in Australia now competing in price and performance terms with fossil-fuel sources of generation, the country’s clean-energy industry should move on from any ties to subsidies.

    The Australian Competition & Consumer Commission also savaged the subsidy in its July blueprint to reset the national electricity market, arguing government support for household solar had been a well-intended but misguided policy.

    Solar schemes were too generous, unfairly disadvantaged lower-income households and had failed to adjust to the changing economics of household solar
    , it said. Rooftop solar subsidies should be axed and the states should take on the cost of “excessively generous” solar feed-in tariffs to ease the burden of green power schemes that it estimated cost households up to $170 a year.

  221. DrBeauGan

    All the talk back thread here re rolling sad homeless cases to test your conscience or lack of it. As we were leaving Shrewsbury

    I hope you have found how to pronounce Shrewsbury correctly.

  222. Top Ender

    A horrible pair:

    Boy ‘kicked Chol, held her as she was stabbed’
    A 16-year-old boy punched and kicked Laa Chol and held her as she was fatally stabbed at a Melbourne apartment party, a court has been told.

    The boy faced a children’s court yesterday when prosecutors asked that charges of assault and being an accessory after the fact of murder be heard by the Supreme Court, where maximum penalties are significantly tougher.

    A 17-year-old boy has been charged with Chol’s murder at an A’Beckett Street short-stay apartment complex on July 21 this year. His case will automatically go to the Supreme Court, and prosecutors say holding the two cases together would reduce resources and save Chol’s family the trauma of two trials.

    In hearing submissions the magistrate watched CCTV footage of the alleged assault and the moment Chol, 19, was stabbed, as well as footage of both boys immediately after.

    “This accused is seen punching and kicking the victim,” the prosecutor told the court of the footage.

    “The co-accused can then be seen to pull a knife from his pocket and stab the victim once to the chest area.” The 16-year-old was holding Chol when the 17-yearold stabbed her, it is alleged.

    Both teens are expected to plead not guilty. It’s alleged Chol returned inside the rented apartment, collapsed and later died.

    Prosecutors claim further footage shows the teen boys get into a lift, the older boy put his fingers to his lips in a silencing motion and the younger boy respond with a “give it to me” gesture.

    It’s argued the 17-year-old handed the younger boy a knife and that the 16-year- old secreted it in a satchel and later disposed of it. The knife has never been found.

    The 16-year-old’s lawyer said there was clearly a fight between his client and Chol, but questioned whether the boy knew Chol had been stabbed or suffered any life-threatening injuries.

    AAP Oz print edition complete

  223. Leigh Lowe

    Bugging embassies? Are you kidding me? It’s the oldest and most well respected game in town. Of course the Turks would have bugged the Saudis.

    The claim is that audio was transmitted by his Apple watch.
    Which could be a cover for bugging, of course.

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