A modern libertarian discusses the problems of immigration

This is from Gary North in the Journal of Libertarian Studies: The Sanctuary Society and its Enemies

In the United States today, the waiting period for citizenship is as short as five years. The waiting period is similar in other democratic nations. This, not the threat of economic competition, is the problem of immigration for the free society. Because the citizen authoritatively declares the law and seeks to impose it on others, he can become a threat to the free society. The problem is the moral content of his confession of faith and his possession of civil sanctions, not his productivity and his possession of economic sanctions. Mises was short-sighted here: a nineteenth-century, anti-clerical, would-be value-free analyst, i.e., a liberal. It is not the welfare state as such that creates the problem of immigration; rather, it is the confession of faith of the would-be immigrants. If their confession inherently threatens the moral and judicial foundations of the free society, then immigration is a problem, with or without the presence today of a welfare state. Freedom is based on more than private contracts. It is based on a moral vision, which includes a vision of the moral boundaries of the state.

This is the single most important issue of our time. Read it all.

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35 Responses to A modern libertarian discusses the problems of immigration

  1. John Constantine

    But the food is so tasty.

    Tasty food Is Our Strength.

  2. Tim Neilson

    Because the citizen authoritatively declares the law and seeks to impose it on others, he can become a threat to the free society. … It is not the welfare state as such that creates the problem of immigration; rather, it is the confession of faith of the would-be immigrants. If their confession inherently threatens the moral and judicial foundations of the free society, then immigration is a problem, with or without the presence today of a welfare state.

    Whereas terrorism, car jackings and home invasions aren’t a problem, or at any rate wouldn’t be if they were done only by non-citizens who weren’t allowed to vote. So let’s have open borders.

  3. Roger

    Wasn’t there talk recently of Muslims in western Sydney forming their own political party?

    I’m sure there’d be not a few leftists and liberals in power willing to facilitate the adoption of sharia law in the name of multiculturalism, too. English courts already recognise sharia law in divorce cases.

  4. Zyconoclast

    Wasn’t there talk recently of Muslims in western Sydney forming their own political party?

    They don’t need to reinvent the wheel.
    Not a word gets uttered by 99% of politicians that have not been filtered through the, “ but how will Mosley’s respond”

  5. Dr Fred Lenin

    The great RudyardcKipling had it right, “east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet”. No matter how hard the globalists try we will refuse to comply with their agenda to reduce us all to mao blue clad automatons , Destroy Globlism Before it Destroys Freedom. To the guillotine soros and his bribed lackeys .

  6. Notafan

    So bleeding obvious that if the citiizen’s confession requires, once he is in a position to demand it, a theocracy, then a theocracy we shall have.

    And he will strive his utmost to achieve that theocracy because his confession demands that too.

  7. AussieMAGA

    Immigration is great because it allows Libertarians to share their wives with more brown men.

  8. Squirrel

    The economic aspect is certainly not unimportant, particularly when the main economic effect of our mass immigration program is to create domestic demand – much of which is then funded by debt (with a substantial foreign component) and sales of assets and finite natural resources.

  9. Dr Fred Lenin

    The mass immigration scam is high treason of the greatest kind ad should be a capital offence punishable by mandatory death by public hanging ,” pour encourager les autres .”

  10. .

    AussieMAGA
    #2885196, posted on December 13, 2018 at 5:06 pm

    Immigration is great because it allows Libertarians to share their wives with more brown men.

    What kind of loser with no self-confidence or frame projects like this as an opening statement? BTW, Who hurt you?

    If you didn’t notice dummy, Hoppe, North and even Freidman have made arguments against immigration, as to support liberty.

    Game saves lives. Tailgunner, get in here and help this incel youngster “Aussie MAGA” before he harms himself and others!

  11. jupes

    It is not the welfare state as such that creates the problem of immigration; rather, it is the confession of faith of the would-be immigrants. If their confession inherently threatens the moral and judicial foundations of the free society, then immigration is a problem, with or without the presence today of a welfare state.

    Word.

    Muslim immigration MUST be banned.

  12. mh

    Let us never lose sight of the big picture.

  13. Tel

    My belief is that the Welfare State and loss of personal responsibility will slowly but surely break down any society, regardless of immigration. If you start with a culture based on a strong work ethic then it will take longer.

    If you open the borders and offer free handouts to all with no requirement to contribute then the people you attract will inevitably be people who not only don’t share your culture but they also will see you as weak, stupid, vulnerable, and basically a bunch of suckers. That will have the same final result but gets there a bit quicker. In Australia I predict it will manifest in a sovereign debt crisis sometime around 100% debt to GDP ratio, approx 2030.

    I should point out that you don’t need tight borders if you have an internal system that includes strong property rights, rule of law, minimal handouts, and similar things… because then you automatically select for the type of immigration that is compatible with the local culture (e.g. you could immigrate to North Korea if you wanted to but sure as heck if you go there they will expect you to follow THEIR RULES and they won’t take any nonsense).

  14. Sinclair Davidson

    I’m calling bullshit. The biggest threat to a free society are local-born progressives.

  15. νεκρός

    This is the single most important issue of our time.

    No, the single most important issue of our time is that treasonous bureaucrats and treacherous educators are wilfully indoctrinating almost entire populations to believe in false doctrines, illogical suppositions, incoherent ideologies, self-contradictory dogmas and fake news to such an extent that elected governments, with the full support of lucripetously lordotic but seditious media, are pursuing suicidally regressive policies.

  16. Jonesy

    If the sojournor lives among you they are unto you as if born here….interpret that as….lives among you, as in living the same and honouring the local norms…as opposed to segregated and separate…means living apart from you…you are not unto them…they are strangers and will continue to be so.

  17. Mark A

    John Constantine
    #2885139, posted on December 13, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    But the food is so tasty.

    Tasty food Is Our Strength.

    Cookbooks are cheaper.

  18. .

    Tel

    I have to say I agree pretty much 100% with that.

  19. Muddy

    Sinclair Davidson
    #2885306, posted on December 13, 2018 at 7:09 pm

    I’m calling bullshit. The biggest threat to a free society are local-born progressives.

    No insurgency, whether armed, or socio-cultural, can thrive and achieve its ends without a support network. It is these enablers who open the gates from within.
    Frowning quizzically at them is not an effective defense, and never was.
    It is those quizzical frowners who share a moral culpability for allowing the enabling parasites to hold the gates open.
    It is too late for blame of course, but until we acknowledge what is happening as akin to a long-term, armed insurgency, and plan appropriate counter-measures, the barbarians will continue to plunder.

  20. Mark A

    Sinclair Davidson
    #2885306, posted on December 13, 2018 at 7:09 pm

    I’m calling bullshit. The biggest threat to a free society are local-born progressives.

    True, having them in a position of power leads to this state of affairs.
    High, uncontrolled migration sepc. of the wrong kind, high deficit, etc…

  21. max

    Sinclair Davidson
    #2885306, posted on December 13, 2018 at 7:09 pm

    I’m calling bullshit. The biggest threat to a free society are local-born progressives.

    yes that is correct.

    I came to Australia as refugee in early 94 because of civil war and disappearance of SFRY.
    my relatives sponsor me and pay all fees — which I pay back.

    I have friends who are born in Australia, from time to time I say to them:
    I am against: medicare, free schooling, social security, citizenship based on birth, … and so many other socialist programs — they are shocked…

    yes biggest tread to your freedom and your wallet are your own government and its employees — they write laws and regulations.

  22. Fisky

    I should point out that you don’t need tight borders if you have an internal system that includes strong property rights, rule of law, minimal handouts, and similar things… because then you automatically select for the type of immigration that is compatible with the local culture (e.g. you could immigrate to North Korea if you wanted to but sure as heck if you go there they will expect you to follow THEIR RULES and they won’t take any nonsense).

    OK. Wake me up when that country exists. In the meantime the Left are importing millions of people into the West for the explicit purpose of overthrowing those countries and creating a permanent Leftist one party state.

  23. max

    “In the meantime the Left are importing millions of people into the West”

    and what is your solution?
    how are you going to change people minds?
    who is going to pay all this promises and hold asset prices high.

    I will tell you what is going to happen — from my experience — eventual scapegoat are going to be foreigners — let kill them all and trow them to sea –but which one ? there are many of them?

  24. max

    this kind of bulshit can happen here too:

    The May 1998 riots of Indonesia

    The riots were triggered by economic problems including food shortages and mass unemployment, and eventually led to the resignation of President Suharto and the fall of the New Order government. The main targets of the violence were ethnic Chinese;

    On May 13, 1969, riots against the Chinese began in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. It was considered the worst racial riot in Malaysian history.

  25. Fisky

    and what is your solution?
    how are you going to change people minds?
    who is going to pay all this promises and hold asset prices high.

    Take advantage of the coming property crash by cutting immigration by 2/3, doubling the citizenship waiting times, forcing all new visa applicants to sign a document promising that they never have been and never will be a member of the following groups….(e.g. CCP, CPSU, Hamas, ISIS, etc), and seizing control of CCP assets during the next diplomatic crisis.

    Result: a complete and irreversible narrative shift around the issue of immigration (it’s already happening in its early stages), and a significantly smaller migrant intake in the future.

  26. Fisky

    The riots were triggered by economic problems including food shortages and mass unemployment, and eventually led to the resignation of President Suharto and the fall of the New Order government. The main targets of the violence were ethnic Chinese;

    Different dynamic here. The issue with PRC is that it is a strategic threat, and it has an active policy of infiltrating/controlling the diaspora. Indonesia/Malaysia had more in common with Europe’s issues with the Jews in the 1930s, i.e. very little resemblance to contemporary Australia.

  27. Fisky

    this kind of bulshit can happen here too:

    The May 1998 riots of Indonesia

    Nah, this had more in common with 1930s Germany – a culturally backward majority putting a more sophisticated market dominant minority in its place. Nasty stuff, but it’s a very different dynamic. Most likely, if anything bad happens between Australia and the PRC, there will be no riots but the government will intern a whole bunch of PRC students and workers.

  28. max

    as long as you believe in Suffrage –that all of us should have right to vote nothing will change.

  29. max

    Suffrage Debate, N.Y. Constitutional Convention of 1821
    Chancellor James Kent

    The tendency of universal suffrage, is to jeopardize the rights of property, and the principles of liberty. There is a constant tendency in human society, and the history of every age proves it; there is a tendency in the poor to covet and to share the plunder of the rich; in the debtor to relax or avoid the obligation of contracts; in the majority to tyrannize over the minority, and trample down their rights; in the indolent and the profligate, to cast the whole burthens of society upon the industrious and the virtuous; and there is a tendency in ambitious and wicked men, to inftame these combustible materials. It requires a vigilant government, and a firm administration of justice, to counteract that tendency. Thou shalt not covet; thou shalt not steal; are divine injunctions induced by this miserable depravity of our nature.

    The notion that every man that works a day on the road, or serves an idle hour in the militia, is entitled as of right to an equal participation in the whole power of the government, is most unreasonable, and has no foundation in justice.

    http://eweb.furman.edu/~benson/docs/nysuffrage.htm

  30. Fisky

    Is this where “liberatarians” argue it is too difficult to cut immigration, but stripping the vote off half the population would be easy peasy???

  31. max

    well, it is in my best interest if immigration is cut to zero and property price to fall 80% — but this will not solve Australian problems.

  32. max

    article talk about New Zealand but it is same for Australia:

    Since the great depression of the 1930’s, the New Zealand economy has relied on protection for producers at the expense of urban consumers and taxpayers. The nation has had a marvelous quality of life, so long as that quality of life was not based on high-quality, low-cost imported consumer goods. The trouble for socialist ideology is that New Zealanders, like everyone else in the West. wanted all those Japanese electronic goodies. And to get access to them, they had to compete in international markets. But their government-protected economy did not encourage this sort of competition.

    The country has been dominated by Fabian socialist ideas throughout the twentieth century. The two political parties have forged a working relationship: the conservative National Party has protected the farmers and local businessmen from world competition by means of agricultural marketing boards, direct subsidies to agriculture, and tariffs. The Labor Party has done its best to protect union members from world competition by keeping tariffs high, imposing other import quotas, fixing exchange rates, refusing to allow currency and other futures trading in world markets, and using the taxing power of the federal government to redistribute wealth (which really means keeping the existing distribution of wealth pretty much fixed: if you got there early, you are locked in for life, or close to it).
    All of this has been familiar to New Zealand’s voters for many decades. Then, almost without warning, the revolution began in 1984.
    https://www.garynorth.com/public/14754.cfm

  33. max

    interesting :

    Revolution (part one) – Fortress New Zealand

  34. Mr Black

    The only way the west survives as a civilisation is if it expels the vast majority of non-western people from its borders. There simply isn’t a future when they outnumber us 10:1 globally and can swamp us with numbers at no cost to their home nations. There needs to be an iron clad White Australia policy again, just as there needs to be a White America and a White Europe. Otherwise we are finished, it’s just a matter of time. How we are to survive can take many forms but if you’re not ready to expel all the foreigners (by force if necessary) at the very least, you’re not ready to deal with reality.

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