Open Forum: April 20, 2019

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1,963 Responses to Open Forum: April 20, 2019

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  1. Atoms for Peace

    The Mr Creosote thread has exploded

  2. Atoms for Peace

    Did somebody mention death duties?

  3. Rossini

    The old Fred was getting too personal!

  4. Rossini

    Anybody watch the Easts verses Storm match tonight?

  5. Memoryvault

    Anybody watch the Easts verses Storm

    That reads a bit like a weather report.

  6. Knuckle Dragger

    Dammit.

    I said May Day Sinc!

  7. Memoryvault

    I said May Day Sinc!

    Please be gentle with the Doomlord.
    He’s still getting over the loss of his beloved Potential Greatness.

  8. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Heading for dreamland. Sailing there in a nice new thread.
    Under a full moon, and full steam ahead.

  9. Steve trickler

    Quality script writing. With no threat to losing your head.

    It is only a film.



  10. Rossini

    Good night all still awake.

  11. DrBeauGan

    Quality script writing. With no threat to losing your head.

    It is only a film.

    It makes for a more coherent explanation than the churches offer. But so many prefer the mumbo-jumbo.

  12. stackja

    Qantas didn’t offer meat less menu on Good Friday.

  13. stackja

    I slept through old thread.

  14. Infidel Tiger

    Have often been a critic of Alan Jones, but his column in The Australian defending Folau is absolutely brilliant.

  15. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    I’ll take jersey 20, front row reserve

  16. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Yep, The Man From Earth was a quality flick. A bit slow and plodding perhaps, but its all about concept.

    Speaking of myth busters…

    Only a few hours until the Capitalism versus Marxism debate between Jordan Peterson & Slavoj Žižek.
    You can wait for 3 weeks until it gets posted on YouTube, or you can watch it live tomorrow at 9:30am AEST by paying $15 [ https://www.jordanvsslavojdebate.com/ ] for access.

    Yeah, so, spoiler alert, if you have to pay-per-view to see the debate, I’d say capitalism already won? 🙂

  17. DrBeauGan

    This must be the slatch between the ‘Dillos.

  18. Bushkid

    Thanks Tom. Chip Bok for me this morning.

  19. calli

    He heard me!

    Nice and (fairly) fresh.

  20. DrBeauGan

    Why Good Friday? What’s good about crucifying your lord and saviour?

  21. DrBeauGan

    I would have thought absolutely terrible Friday would have made more sense.

  22. Herodotus

    It’s good because we know the ending.

  23. calli

    Stiglich is a bit too early out of the blocks. Bok’s incinerated dome wins.

  24. calli

    The Man of Earth explanation is cute. He forgot a little detail. The guards.

  25. DrBeauGan

    calli
    #2992627, posted on April 20, 2019 at 7:08 am
    The Man of Earth explanation is cute. He forgot a little detail. The guards.

    How so?

  26. 2dogs

    I said May Day Sinc!

    I thought we agreed late last year that the Cat would observe May Day as “Victims of Communism Memorial Day”.

    Seize the means of public discourse. Take their day away from communists.

  27. Dr Faustus

    Macron, UNESCO Officials Discuss Notre Dame Reconstruction

    French President Emmanuel Macron is hosting officials from the United Nations’ cultural agency, where he is expected to set out ideas for the reconstruction of Notre Dame Cathedral.

    He will meet with state delegates from UNESCO, which oversees global heritage issues, in the Elysee Palace Friday.

    So, firefighters are still in the building and le ToyBoi is already planning its reconstruction “more beautiful than before” – with the UN – to keep les Gilets Jaunes from destroying his government.

    Hard to see anything going wrong there…

  28. calli

    And why would you die an appalling death for something you knew to be a lie? Not just Peter but all the others except John.

    But it’s Easter, and all the challenges get a re-run. Which is at it should be. You would never want to become a Christian blindly. It’s soft here, but elsewhere it’s just as dangerous as the first century.

  29. 2dogs

    more beautiful than before

    Given who is speaking, that sounds ominous.

  30. Gab

    DrBeauGan
    #2992623, posted on April 20, 2019 at 6:56 am
    Why Good Friday? What’s good about crucifying your lord and saviour?

    I’d explain it to you but I’d be wasting my time.

  31. DrBeauGan

    Herodotus
    #2992625, posted on April 20, 2019 at 7:03 am
    It’s good because we know the ending.

    Calling Easter Sunday absolutely wonderful Sunday would seem to be the sensible way around that.

  32. Dr Faustus

    Public slam presenter who trashed Sir David Attenborough on air

    The furore occurred when Dr Gail Bradbrook — the co-founder of the Extinction Rebellion protest that led to 290 arrests this week — was invited to appear on morning TV program Good Morning Britain.

    “I have two boys, 10 and 13, and they won’t have enough food to eat in a few years time,” she said.

    “Sir David Attenborough said the collapse of this civilisation could happen soon.”

    But Mr Madeley wasn’t convinced — and seemed to question Sir David’s credibility.“He’s not a saint you know. He’s just a broadcaster,” he said.

    A career ending Twitterstorm appeared out of left field.

  33. PoliticoNT

    Has there been a thread about the new Cadbury SymbolForAll campaign? The advert is peak virtue-signally handjob circle. So bad, it’s good. Can’t say the same about the logo though. Kind of looks like the mark a dog makes when it sits its bum on your lap…

  34. DrBeauGan

    Gab
    #2992634, posted on April 20, 2019 at 7:26 am
    DrBeauGan
    #2992623, posted on April 20, 2019 at 6:56 am
    Why Good Friday? What’s good about crucifying your lord and saviour?

    I’d explain it to you but I’d be wasting my time.

    You mean your explanation is so unconvincing I wouldn’t believe it?

  35. 2dogs

    Macron, UNESCO Officials Discuss Notre Dame Reconstruction

    Both of them should recognise it is not their decision. The building does not belong to them; it belongs to the Catholic church. Within the Catholic church, their is a principle known as subsidiarity. Under that principle, the people whose decision it is on how the reconstruction should occur are parish council of Cathedral, made up from regular attendees at the Notre Dame every Sunday.

    Everyone else can shut up.

  36. John Brumble

    Socialism: The belief that some people are evil and greedy and that this can be fixed by giving them a police force and an army.

  37. Bruce of Newcastle

    Why Good Friday? What’s good about crucifying your lord and saviour?

    Breitbart can tell you:
    Christians Observe Good Friday: Crushed for Our Iniquities
    The second half of the headline is a quote from Isaiah 53. Jesus fulfilled the prophesy.

  38. Farmer Gez

    The Man from Earth confirmed one thing for me.

    William Katy, Greatest American Hero, is a crap hammy actor.

  39. John Constantine

    After a lifetime of sticking it to the man, and progressing the revolutionary struggle to overthrow the State, Ben Elton looks upon the outcome of leftist victory and despairs.

    It wasn’t meant to all end up in blind obedience to identity voteherd politics and unthinking, unquestioning compliance to identity Class dogma.

    Britain is disintegrated, laments Elton.

    Comrade Maaaate.

  40. “It is remarkable that so many cheer ‘no collusion’ when the Mueller report explicitly states that it did not investigate nor express an opinion on ‘collusion.’ And, if you read the report (yes, some people actually do this), you will discover that Mueller reports plenty of evidence that Russia and Trump acted in a coordinated manner. A simple example is the Trump team giving the Russians their polling data on the midwest states, and then following up with updates. And then, the Russians targeting these same states with their misrepresentative messaging. What Mueller did not discover was evidence of an explicit agreement (document or recording between Trump and the Russians agreeing to conspire).

    How can any American cheerlead this behavior? And worse, lie about it?”

    — Mark T. Green

  41. Farmer Gez

    Sorry William Katt. Stupid auto correct puts Katy up.
    I watched The Greatest American Hero as a young lad so I could see Connie Sellecca. Sweet and hot as hell at the same time.

  42. Mater

    But Mr Madeley wasn’t convinced — and seemed to question Sir David’s credibility.“He’s not a saint you know. He’s just a broadcaster,” he said.

    A career ending Twitterstorm appeared out of left field.

    The cult of personality

    A dangerous trait.

  43. “Whether criminal or not, any president in the past who behaved as Trump has behaved during the election and his presidency would have been impeached. The unwillingness of the Republicans to hold Trump to standards of the past is sad. But they have opened to door for future Democratic presidents to act in ways they will not be happy with. They have allowed behaviors and actions to occur without push back that will allow a future Democratic president to act in a much more liberal fashion. They will not be happy with what they have created.”

    — gunga din

  44. calli

    The Cadbury story is bizarre.

    Paul Chatfield, Mondelēz International’s director of marketing for chocolate said in a statement: “Every single day, Cadbury’s Australian Facebook page is flooded with hateful messages and comments that have nothing to do with chocolate and everything to do with racist sentiment. As an iconic brand in Australia we have a voice and a responsibility to lead by example, which has been the impetus for the creation of this symbol.

    What the? Why would they be flooded with hateful messages? Is it because they’ve dabbled in a little SJWing and have been burned? Is the product so horrid it turns consumers into rabid cranks? Is it because of the ostentatious Halal certification? Is it a lie?

    Story (and logo)here.

    The symbol looks anodyne enough to soothe the most savage nutter. CalliTip – eat the chocolate, or buy a different brand.

  45. “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment.”

    Robert Mueller

  46. calli

    Nope. My Cadbury 40% cooking chocolate has no Halal symbol, so it can’t be that.

    There must be more to this story.

    I wonder if a problem has been created for marketing purposes? Surely not.

  47. Gab

    I wonder if a problem has been created for marketing purposes? Surely not.

    Wise words.

  48. struth

    Good Moaning

    SNIFFY for some reason, thinks posting the dummy spits of lefties will amuse us.
    It did for a while, but now their sadness and mental sickness (TDS is just embarrassing to observe) is just a bit ho hum…………………so 2016.

  49. struth

    Monty showed up last night as the last death rattle of Wussia nothingburger sounds from CNN.

    It’s now Trump’s turn.
    It’s going to be fun.

  50. Andreas

    Cadbury’s Easter Eggs aren’t called Easter Eggs, they’re called “Hunting Eggs”. I guess using the word Easter would be offensive.

  51. John Brumble

    Ooooh, look everyone, Beaugan is a smart undergraduate. He’s so smart and I have never, ever heard anyone being so smart before.

  52. Bruce of Newcastle

    “It is remarkable that so many cheer ‘no collusion’ when the Mueller report explicitly states that it did not investigate nor express an opinion on ‘collusion.’

    How can anyone top that for the biggest lie of the morning?
    Sheesh.

  53. Mater

    Story (and logo)here.

    Credits:

    Mondelez
    Paul Chatfield – Marketing Director, Chocolate, ANZ
    Anthony Ho – Associate Director, Brand Equity, Chocolate & Biscuits, ANZ
    Amanda Bronesky – Senior Brand Manager, Chocolate
    Ben Wicks – Director, Global Brand Equity, Cadbury
    Mie-Leng Wong – Head of Global Brands, Cadbury Halls & Tang

    Ogilvy Melbourne
    Rebecca Matlioski – Copywriter
    Ben Ryding – Art Director
    Sharon Condy, Josh Murrell – Creative Directors
    David Ponce de Leon – Executive Creative Director
    Andrew Vohmann – Senior Digital Designer
    Gavin MacMillan, Michael McEwan – Managing Directors
    Virginia Pracht – Head of Strategy
    Danielle Chapman – Group Account Director
    Bianca Kerr – Account Director
    Oliver Corcoran – Social Community Manager
    Bridget Pringle – Digital Producer
    Susannah George – Head of Film and Content
    Alana Teasdale – Senior Broadcast/Content Producer
    Fee Townshend – Director Curve Comms

    Symbol Designers
    Bradley Pinkerton – Designer
    Bibi Barba – Visual Artist
    Noor Sleiman – Designer
    Melissa Robinson-Cole -Visual Artist
    Abdul Abdullah – Visual Artist
    Joris Van Imhoff – Designer
    Joy Li – Designer
    Pin Athwal – Designer
    Gareth Procter – Project Manager
    Marilyn Metta – Anthropologist

    That many people to create that little symbol?
    By that standard, you’d swear Cadbury was an Australian Government Department.

  54. Farmer Gez

    Trump’s never going to be impeached and unless the Dems find a candidate who isn’t a screaming crazy woman or a half man they will lose 2020
    The hero of the Dems JFK was a man’s man to his bootstraps.

  55. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    who knew couple of dozen trolls could swing an election of 300 million. Leftoids are the most gullible idiots on the planet.

  56. Leigh Lowe

    Ogilvy Melbourne
    Rebecca Matlioski – Copywriter
    Ben Ryding – Art Director
    Sharon Condy, Josh Murrell – Creative Directors
    David Ponce de Leon – Executive Creative Director
    Andrew Vohmann – Senior Digital Designer

    No surprise there.

  57. Mater

    No surprise there.

    You know a company is engaging in virtue signalling, when employees put their names to it.
    No point participating if you can’t roll around in the glory.

    We used to have working dogs that also used to roll around in all sorts of unpleasantness.

  58. Twostix

    Leftoids are the most gullible idiots on the planet.

    No, they know what they’re doing.

  59. John A

    Steve trickler #2992595, posted on April 20, 2019 at 12:31 am

    Quality script writing. With no threat to losing your head.

    It is only a film.

    Yawn. Heard all the explain-aways before. Well refuted. TLDW past 1:43

  60. calli

    Keith Sutor looked almost tearful on Seven this morning. But he wobbled his jowls and shook off the gloom with a little laugh – they’ll get him in the end you know. Clinging hard to the “innocent but not exonerated” life preserver.

    Next year will be very interesting.

  61. Leigh Lowe

    Why Good Friday? What’s good about crucifying your lord and saviour?

    There is plenty of published work out there on this subject.
    Why not do the basic research by looking them up and carefully reading them?

  62. calli

    Yes, John A. It was all the boilerplate stuff. Dare I say “a mumbo jumbo”? 😀

  63. duncanm

    Check out this idiocy from some on the local council

    This riled me up enough to write a somewhat cranky letter to all the councillors.

    Plenty of residents have taken their savings and superannuation out of fossil fuels, like the Uniting Church, Anglican church and Catholic churches have done. For many Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews and other people of faith, investments in fossil fuels are now on a par with arms dealing, tobacco, alcohol and gambling, wage exploitation and pornography

    No surprises the author is a green councillor.

  64. cohenite

    Leftoids are the most gullible idiots on the planet.

    No, they know what they’re doing.

    2 types of lefties: the organisers and apparatchiks and the useful idiots who are the vast majority of them; the apparatchiks are simply about power; the useful idiots are their tools for achieving it. Guess which type the troll is.

  65. Gab

    There is plenty of published work out there on this subject.
    Why not do the basic research by looking them up and carefully reading them?

    Because he’s not interested in understanding, only in baiting.

  66. calli

    Uh oh. That might be classified as a “cheap shot”.

    I apologise unreservedly for my bad manners.

  67. Twostix

    . Our symbol is a solution, a response and a brand statement, all rolled into one.”

    Hahaha.

    Leftwing goonery is officially a corporate consumer good.

  68. Baldrick

    Leftoids are the most gullible idiots on the planet.
    No, they know what they’re doing.

    There’s no need to over think this. Leftards lie about everything, all the time. Simple.

  69. Leigh Lowe

    Because he’s not interested in understanding, only in baiting.

    Who is he?
    I just saw the comment in quotations and it kind of annoyed me.
    Anyone who has an enquiring mind and the ability to search on line can find a multitude of material going back centuries.
    Asking the banal question is just intellectually lazy.

  70. Mark M

    Affordable, desirable electric cars: They’ve been just around the corner for over 100 years …

    “Recent reports have been current in certain papers that Mr Thomas A. Edison, the inventor, has at last perfected the storage battery and that within a few months electrically propelled vehicles, costing little to buy and next to nothing to maintain, will be on the market.
    The same story has appeared regularly for years and matters do not appear to have advanced much.

    — international Herald Tribune,
    November 1, 1907

    http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/08/affordable-desirable-electric-cars-they.html

    2019, Bloomberg bombshell: Electric cars will be cheaper than gasoline-powered cars in just 3 years

    https://thinkprogress.org/electric-vehicles-cheaper-gasoline-cars-e4c86bd2aebe/

  71. Twostix

    the useful idiots are their tools for achieving it.

    Their lord and saviour Mueller has just told they are all 100% wrong.

    They had a decision to make, accept truth and reality as ordered to by their highest authority, or reject that and continue to pursue lies and malevolence.

    They cannot plead ignorance now and cannot be written off as mere gullible fools.

    They know what they are doing.

  72. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    That many people to create that little symbol?
    By that standard, you’d swear Cadbury was an Australian Government Department.

    The result is the typical horse designed by a committee.
    What a tasteless and glumpy mess that logo has turned out to be.
    Aesthetics went missing during tea break with all those ‘contributors’.

    The twee little heart in the middle is probably the worst part of it.
    Although there’s an open field on the anthropology too.

  73. dover_beach

    After you had consigned myself and anyone else who didn’t believe in organised religion to hell.

    LOL. Do you work for the ARU?

  74. DrBeauGan

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #2992642, posted on April 20, 2019 at 7:41 am
    Why Good Friday? What’s good about crucifying your lord and saviour?

    Breitbart can tell you:
    Christians Observe Good Friday: Crushed for Our Iniquities
    The second half of the headline is a quote from Isaiah 53. Jesus fulfilled the prophesy.

    As far as I can make out, the thing that’s good about Good Friday is that we are all redeemed from our sins because Christ died for us on that day. A sort of collective unearned redemption.

    In other words it’s religion, so doesn’t have to make sense.

    I find the idea of me being let off my sins as a result of someone else suffering on my behalf utterly repulsive. I would be ashamed to profit in such a way from the pain of another. And if the other volunteered to do it for me, I should be angered by the insufferable condescension.

  75. Leigh Lowe

    Ah, thanks Gab.
    All is revealed.
    There is plenty of great material on the origins of Christian customs and nomenclature and much of it is not specific to Christianity.
    For example, the timing of many holidays (holy days) devolved from pagan tradition and many of the names are derivitaves of ancient English or borrowed from other cultures.
    It makes for interesting and informative reading even if you are not religious.

  76. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Mr Thomas A. Edison, the inventor, has at last perfected the storage battery and that within a few months electrically propelled vehicles, costing little to buy and next to nothing to maintain, will be on the market.

    Fantastic find there, Tinta. As with all electric vehicles, they forgot to add the ‘lasting five minutes’ bit, in terms of both range and re-sale value. Electric vehicles are the new Canon printer; cost less to buy than they do to run the first hundred pages. Built in obsolescence after two years, tinny construction, and turn what used to be a simple process of turning on and running to purpose into a complex computerized nightmare.

  77. Tel

    A very fine Equinox to all.

    Wonderfully balanced between day and night … very equitable. Not too cold, not too hot, couldn’t ask for better weather.

  78. dover_beach

    The simple and straightforward answer to today’s question is that there is no Easter Sunday without Good Friday. Another related reason is that he demonstrated his love for us with his sacrifice on Good Friday which is why we refer to drama of Good Friday as Christ’s Passion.

  79. RobK


    https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/11174-How-green-is-China-s-high-speed-rail-

    Researchers from the Chinese Academy of Sciences and other institutions analysed the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed line, which is China’s most highly trafficked. They found its carbon footprint to be much higher than high-speed railways in other countries. This is largely due to the dominant use of coal for electricity generation in China. However, the authors’ analysis suggests that the line actually has strong potential to fulfil many of the IEA’s criteria for a low-carbon line….

    And..

    A debt-fuelled infrastructure construction model has led to the development of ghost cities in China; it can also create perverse incentives for irrational high-speed rail development, according to Zhao Jian.

    A lot more detail in the full article. Mind numbing figures.

  80. BrettW

    Read both the Alan Jones and Grace Collier (apologies as can’t remember new surname) articles in the Oz today.

    Jones’s article is excellent and good on him for backing IF and pointing out the hypocrisy of Quantas.

    However, despite my admiration for IF’s stand, Grace’s article is the issue for me. If not posting such comments was included in his lucrative contract after previous incidents then he should not have signed it and moved elsewhere where he could have earned just as much money.

    It is a tough one as having said that I hope he wins his fight against RU !

  81. DrBeauGan

    LL, why clump about through the maze of crap on the internet when this place is a hotbed of Christianity? I got an answer from BoN who did me the honour of taking me seriously. Most weren’t saying. For whatever reasons.

    People of faith worry me, whether it’s the extinction lady in London or occasional cortex or Gab and Calli. The last two are good women who take something good from their beliefs and the first two are not and prefer the apocalypse. But they are all irrational.

  82. Leigh Lowe

    dover_beach

    #2992686, posted on April 20, 2019 at 8:42 am

    The simple and straightforward answer to today’s question is that there is no Easter Sunday without Good Friday.

    I think the problem lies elsewhere …

    “If I can’t measure it, weight it or calculate it on my computer, it has no meaning.”

    Sad.

  83. John Constantine

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-19/ben-elton-on-blackadder,-young-ones,-political-correctness/11023580

    As Elton prepares for his first stand-up comedy tour in more than a decade, he fears the world has passed him by just a bit.

    Or perhaps, Elton wonders, is he is the very thing the world needs?

    “The ideas of the enlightenment — for 300 years the primacy of evidence and the rejection of superstition and rejection of blind faith — suddenly all that has gone in the 15 years I have been off the road,” he said.

    “I wonder if it is my fault? I think probably the world needs me and that’s why I’m doing it again.”

    Identity outrage and Identity voteherd theory has swamped and replaced the Enlightenment in the West.

    Ben Elton blinks and begins to mansplain it wasn’t meant to be this way.

    Probably an interesting bloke to be tossed into Shortencamp number one with.

    Gulags are coming.

    Comrades.

  84. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Future minister Dodson under pressure to deliver for indigenous

    EXCLUSIVE
    Greg Brown
    Journalist
    @gregbrown_TheOz
    12:00AM April 20, 2019
    5 Comments

    Labor senator Pat Dodson — who would likely be indigenous affairs minister under a Shorten government — would face pressure to ­deliver unprecedented reforms for indigenous Australians, including an overhaul of programs, more money for the Closing the Gap targets and the immediate rollout of social housing in remote areas.

    Indigenous activist and academic Marcia Langton said there would be “enormous” pressure on Senator Dodson to reform indigenous programs — on top of ­expectations Labor would deliver a first-term referendum on a “voice to parliament” — given the West Australian senator’s standing among Aboriginal communities as the Father of Reconciliation.

    “But I think also people, ­especially Aboriginal people, ­realise how difficult this portfolio is and I think he will get a lot of co-operation,’’ Professor Langton said.

    “I think there is a lot of trust in him — well I know there is — and that is a very important for a minister of indigenous affairs to have the trust of indigenous ­people.

    “And his big problem, should he become minister, is that these reforms will take time and people will be impatient.”

    Bill Shorten this week said he wanted Senator Dodson as his ­indigenous affairs minister, after unveiling a $115 million health package for Aboriginal people.

    Professor Langton said Senator Dodson should commit a future Labor government to the urgent fast-tracking of remote housing in the Northern Territory, South Australia and Western Australia, naming it the No 1 priority to arrest poor health outcomes and high suicide rates of Aboriginal Australians.

    From the Oz. More housing in remote areas to solve health and self harm problems?

  85. Mark A

    Actually it is only in English that the name of that day comes out odd.

  86. Leigh Lowe

     If not posting such comments was included in his lucrative contract after previous incidents then he should not have signed it and moved elsewhere where he could have earned just as much money.

    What if he simply wanted to play rugger for Australia AND be a practicing Christian?
    Substitute the word “Christian” in that sentence with almost anything else and try to imagine Raelene getting her substantially knickers in a twist over it.

  87. yarpos

    “Wonderfully balanced between day and night … very equitable. Not too cold, not too hot, couldn’t ask for better weather.”

    Sooner or later (you would think)people would look from the tales of extremes, doom and extinctions and realise that nothing much is going on and that for most of the time the world is a reasonably good place to live. Oddly my grandchildren still know what snow is, and they still have to be driven down to the beach to play in the ocean.

  88. Mark A

    Mark A
    #2992693, posted on April 20, 2019 at 8:51 am

    Actually it is only in English that the name of that day comes out odd.

    Ps. in German it’s very very close to what DrBG alluded to, a day to mourn.

  89. RobK

    Tel,
    A very fine Equinox to all.
    Wasn’t that last month?(around March 23?)

  90. DrBeauGan

    I think the problem lies elsewhere …

    “If I can’t measure it, weight it or calculate it on my computer, it has no meaning.”

    Sad.

    Strawman.

  91. Mater

    From the Oz. More housing in remote areas to solve health and self harm problems?

    I wish they’d cut out the middle man and just truck in more firewood.

  92. OldOzzie

    Obstruction of Nothing

    Mueller vindicates Trump on collusion and plays Hamlet on obstruction.

    By The WSJ Editorial Board

    Robert Mueller is certainly thorough. The special counsel makes clear across the 488 pages of his report released Thursday that he and his band of prosecutors left no entrail unexamined in their two-year dissection of President Trump. Those who demanded this may not like the conclusions, but they can’t say Mr. Mueller didn’t hunt down every potential crime.

    The report exposes some Trumpian excesses and lies, but it also shows that, on the most important issue and the charge that started it all, Mr. Trump has been telling the truth. He and his campaign did not conspire or coordinate with Russians to steal the 2016 election. Try as he did to find a crime regarding Russia or obstruction of justice, Mr. Mueller found nothing to prosecute.

    The details validate the four-page public summary of the report’s conclusions that Attorney General William Barr released last month. The AG issued the full report with limited redactions related to grand-jury testimony and intelligence sources and methods. Democrats will claim secrets are hidden in the redactions, but Mr. Barr says he’ll let senior Members of Congress see most of those too. Claims of a coverup are spin for the anti-Trump media.

    Mr. Mueller devotes some 200 pages to the Russia tale, and the news is how little is new beyond what we already know from leaks and court filings. The special counsel’s biggest public service is laying out in detail how Russia sought to meddle in the election. The Kremlin endorsed a social-media campaign to plant lies and confuse voters, and it hacked Democratic emails and then used cutouts like WikiLeaks to release them to the public.

    There’s no evidence that any of this influenced the election result, but it should concern Americans about Vladimir Putin’s bad intentions for 2020. Anyone who still calls Julian Assange a hero after reading the report is guilty of willful ignorance.

    Yet the report is definitive in concluding that “the investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” The report is extraordinary for tracking down the details of every Russian contact with Trump campaign officials. Mr. Mueller examined whether Trump advisers violated conspiracy statutes, campaign-finance laws, lobbying registration laws, and any other statute he could find on the shelf.

    Yet the Trump-Russian contacts that were supposed to be proof of treason end up as unconnected anecdotes. Carter Page and George Papadopoulos aren’t collusion masters but low-level advisers on the make who can’t get senior advisers to agree to their advice. Jeff Sessions’s meetings with the Russian ambassador are routine courtesy gestures. The change to the GOP platform on Ukraine in 2016 had nothing to do with Russian lobbying, and there’s no evidence Mr. Trump knew about it.

    Mr. Mueller devotes pages to the famous meeting in June 2016 at Trump Tower between a Russian lawyer and Donald Trump Jr. that was the subject of so much breathless reporting. Don Jr. showed lousy judgment as ever in taking the meeting. But the event was nothing more than a Russian attempt to lobby about Magnitsky Act sanctions.

    Paul Manafort, the former campaign manager, is exposed for having shared campaign polling data with his Ukrainian employee Konstantin Kilimnik. The report says the FBI believes Mr. Kilimnik has ties to Russian intelligence. But the polling data can’t have been more informative than a hundred public polls, and Mr. Mueller turns up no evidence of collusion via that channel either.

    Arguably the worst contact with Russia occurred after the election, during the presidential transition, when Michael Flynn asked Russia’s ambassador not to escalate after Barack Obama imposed sanctions for Russia’s campaign meddling. Mr. Flynn was undermining U.S. policy, and the former national security adviser has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about what he told the Russian. But Mr. Trump also fired Mr. Flynn for that lie.

    This non-collusion is the backdrop for the other half of Mr. Mueller’s report, which concerns whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice by interfering in the Russia probe as President. The special counsel devotes another 182 pages to rehearsing every detail of Mr. Trump’s decision to fire James Comey as FBI director, his well publicized comments (thanks to Mr. Comey’s leaks) to Mr. Comey in private, and his raging about the Mueller probe.

    Mr. Mueller makes no “prosecutorial judgment” about obstruction, though he conspicuously says that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

    This is Mr. Mueller’s cheapest shot because the standard for a special prosecutor is not exoneration, whether or not Mr. Trump claims it. The standard is whether there is sufficient evidence to charge a crime. Mr. Mueller concedes he lacks enough evidence to know what Mr. Trump’s motives were in firing Mr. Comey or asking him to go easy on Mr. Flynn, so he should have left it there.

    The factual “analysis” about obstruction that Mr. Mueller does offer is hardly persuasive, even if Mr. Trump often behaves badly. Were his public and private comments praising Messrs. Flynn and Manafort and (for a while) Michael Cohen attempts to dangle pardons so they wouldn’t cooperate? Well, all three have been convicted of crimes and no pardons have been offered.

    Mr. Trump was dumb to ask White House counsel Don McGahn to ask Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to fire Mr. Mueller. But Mr. McGahn refused to do it and was prepared to resign over the matter before the President dropped the subject.

    Mr. Mueller essentially reveals a President behaving in predictable Trumpian fashion at being investigated for a crime he didn’t believe he committed—and which even Mr. Mueller now concedes he didn’t commit. There was no underlying crime, and the investigation continued with full White House cooperation. Mr. Mueller knows about these Trumpian eruptions because the White House turned over mountains of documents and allowed him to interview anyone he wanted except the President.

    Nothing in the end was obstructed. The FBI probe continued after Mr. Comey was fired, and Mr. Mueller wasn’t interfered with. Mr. Mueller prosecuted those he could find enough evidence to try to turn for state’s evidence, but there was no coverup because there was no collusion with Russia to cover up.

    None of this will placate Mr. Trump’s adversaries who will take Mr. Mueller’s Hamlet act on obstruction and perhaps try to turn it into an impeachable offense. Democrats have the constitutional power to try, and the media will be their handmaiden. But if even Robert Mueller and his relentless prosecutors couldn’t prove their case, we doubt the American public will look well on the effort.

    Appeared in the April 19, 2019, print edition.

  93. m

    Jonathan Haidt speaking on Moral psychology of Capitalism and Business at Berkeley has interesting observations relevant to issues in election. He believes that Sweden and Germany are doing better than USA because of having workers on the boards. However I wonder if their education system is the reason that this can be done .

  94. Confused Old Misfit

    1735099
    #2992648, posted on April 20, 2019 at 7:47 am

    Any one who has such a high opinion of their intellect as you appear to do should have been ashamed to post such ridiculous crap.
    Clearly, you are not as intelligent as you think you are.

  95. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I wish they’d cut out the middle man and just truck in more firewood.

    Seems that the lurk among the “big men” in some of those communities is to have two houses – one in your tribal name, and the other in your “whitefella” name. You live in one, while the other is being repaired – rinse, and repeat.

  96. Leigh Lowe

    Mater

    #2992699, posted on April 20, 2019 at 8:59 am

    From the Oz. More housing in remote areas to solve health and self harm problems?

    I wish they’d cut out the middle man and just truck in more firewood.

    If it takes 46 people to design a choccy logo, this will be yuuuuge.
    Why not turn it into a reno show?
    Grand Lean-tos Designs.
    Selling Humpies Australia.
    Next thing hipsters will be bringing in outback consultants to kick designer holes in their Gyprock.

  97. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    There is plenty of great material on the origins of Christian customs and nomenclature and much of it is not specific to Christianity.
    For example, the timing of many holidays (holy days) devolved from pagan tradition and many of the names are derivatives of ancient English or borrowed from other cultures.
    It makes for interesting and informative reading even if you are not religious.

    Aha. Did I ever mention I have a book coming out sometime on this stuff? 😀
    St. George, St. Patrick, Robin Hood, Santa Claus, Father Christmas, Old King Cole, King Neptune, Prospero, King Lear and The Black Dog. Chip on your shoulder, or dubbed by the Queen?
    All held together by King Arthur and his ‘Holy’ Grail.
    A word of warning; unless you are careful with the historiography, the internet is not always your friend, as there is a mass of misinformation there that does not withstand scholarly scrutiny.
    First sampling of some of the main themes published here.

    Some people seriously bigtime in this field are greatly encouraging me to complete this work.
    If only I wasn’t so busy with family; you lot don’t know the half of it.
    I come to Catallaxy for light relief. Doesn’t always work that way of course.

    (MV – of course I have time for a coffee in Watson’s Bay during your Sydney ferry marathon in Spring.
    Ask Sinc for my email when you are ready for embarkation and we can sort times out. I hope the days have some Easter bright spots ahead for you. Sunday egg hunt is always a treat.)

  98. Overburdened

    Surf is overcrowded rubbish, it’s pisspouring rain with a cast of thousands of pale flabby urbanites crammed in to every available centimetre of space in their tents, camper trailers, winnebagos or bongo vans listening to each other eat, rut and fart.
    They queue for the toilets and showers in caravan parks, pay through the nose for everything, clutter up the usually tranquil environs before collapsing into a piss and/ or dope induced coma and are thinking that they are getting away from it all.

    As for the Meuller report, President Trump has no case to answer otherwise charges would have been recommended.
    Mueller has attempted to poison the well with the perception of doubt by expressing opinion in an official report on an investigation, which I think is a stain on his career.

  99. RobK

    Electric cars will be cheaper than gasoline-powered cars in just 3 years
    Good. No need for incentives then. Best to wait until they are cheaper.

  100. calli

    Tel, you may be a month too late.

    Better late than never.

  101. OldOzzie

    WSJ – Mueller’s Report Speaks Volumes

    What’s in the special counsel’s findings is almost as revealing as what’s left out.

    By Kimberley A. Strassel

    By the fall of 2017, it was clear that special counsel Robert Mueller, as a former director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, was too conflicted to take a detached look at a Russia-collusion story that had become more about FBI malfeasance than about Donald Trump. The evidence of that bias now stares at us through 448 pages of his report.

    President Trump has every right to feel liberated. What the report shows is that he endured a special-counsel probe that was relentlessly, at times farcically, obsessed with taking him out. What stands out is just how diligently and creatively the special counsel’s legal minds worked to implicate someone in Trump World on something Russia- or obstruction-of-justice-related. And how—even with all its overweening power and aggressive tactics—it still struck out.

    Volume I of the Mueller report, which deals with collusion, spends tens of thousands of words describing trivial interactions between Trump officials and various Russians. While it doubtless wasn’t Mr. Mueller’s intention, the sheer quantity and banality of details highlights the degree to which these contacts were random, haphazard and peripheral. By the end of Volume I, the notion that the Trump campaign engaged in some grand plot with Russia is a joke.

    Yet jump to the section where the Mueller team lists its “prosecution and declination” decisions with regards the Russia question. And try not to picture Mueller “pit bull” prosecutor Andrew Weissmann collapsed under mountains of federal statutes after his two-year hunt to find one that applied.

    Mr. Mueller’s team mulled bringing charges “for the crime of conspiracy—either under statutes that have their own conspiracy language,” or “under the general conspiracy statute.” It debated going after them for the “defraud clause,” which “criminalizes participating in an agreement to obstruct a lawful function of the U.S. government.” It considered the crime of acting as an “agent of a foreign government”—helpfully noting that this crime does not require “willfulness.”

    Up to now, the assumption was that Mr. Mueller had resurrected long-ago violations of the rarely enforced Foreign Agent Registration Act of 1938 purely to apply pressure on folks like Paul Manafort and Mike Flynn. Now we find out that it was resurrected in hopes of applying it to campaign-period actions of minor figures such as Carter Page and George Papadopoulos.

    Mueller’s team even considered charging Trump associates who participated with campaign-finance violations for the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya. Was that meeting “a conspiracy to violate the foreign contributions ban”? Was it “the solicitation of an illegal foreign source contribution”? Was it the receipt of “an express or implied promise to make a [foreign source] contribution”? The team considered that the law didn’t apply only to money—it could apply to a “thing of value.” Until investigators realized it might be hard to prove the “promised documents” exceeded the “$2,000 threshold for a criminal violation.” The Mueller team even credited Democrats’ talking point that former Attorney General Jeff Sessions had committed perjury during his confirmation hearings—and devoted a section in the report to it.

    As for obstruction—Volume II—Attorney General Bill Barr noted Thursday that he disagreed with “some of the special counsel’s legal theories.” Maybe he had in mind Mr. Mueller’s proposition that he was entitled to pursue obstruction questions, even though that was not part of his initial mandate from Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Or maybe it was Mr. Mueller’s long description of what a prosecution of the sitting president might look like—even though he acknowledged its legal impossibility. Or it could be Mr. Mueller’s theory that while “fairness” dictates that someone accused of crimes get a “speedy and public trial” to “clear his name,” Mr. Trump deserves no such courtesy with regard to the 200 pages of accusations Mr. Mueller lodges against him.

    That was Mr. Mueller’s James Comey moment. Remember the July 2016 press conference in which the FBI director berated Hillary Clinton even as he didn’t bring charges? It was a firing offense. Here’s Mr. Mueller engaging in the same practice—only on a more inappropriate scale. At least this time the attorney general tried to clean up the mess by declaring he would not bring obstruction charges. Mr. Barr noted Thursday that we do not engage in grand-jury proceedings and probes with the purpose of generating innuendo.

    Mr. Mueller may not care. His report suggests the actual goal of the obstruction volume is impeachment: “We concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President’s corrupt use of his authority.”

    Note as well what isn’t in the report. It makes only passing, bland references to the genesis of so many of the accusations Mr. Mueller probed: the infamous dossier produced by opposition-research firm Fusion GPS and paid for by the Hillary Clinton campaign. How do you exonerate Mr. Page without delving into the scandalous Moscow deeds of which he was falsely accused? How do you narrate an entire section on the July 2016 Trump Tower meeting without noting that Ms. Veselnitskaya was working alongside Fusion? How do you detail every aspect of the Papadopoulos accusations while avoiding any detail of the curious and suspect ways that those accusations came back to the FBI via Australia’s Alexander Downer?

    The report instead mostly reads as a lengthy defense of the FBI—of its shaky claims about how its investigation began, of its far-fetched theories, of its procedures, even of its leadership. One of the more telling sections concerns Mr. Comey’s firing. Mr. Mueller’s team finds it generally beyond the realm of possibility that the FBI director was canned for incompetence or insubordination. It treats everything the FBI or Mr. Comey did as legitimate, even as it treats everything the president did as suspect.

    Mr. Mueller is an institutionalist, and many on his team were the same Justice Department attorneys who first fanned the partisan collusion claims. He was the wrong man to provide an honest assessment of the 2016 collusion dirty trick. And we’ve got a report to prove it.

    Appeared in the April 19, 2019, print edition.

  102. calli

    And speaking of better late than never, my parents are stepping into a church for a service the first time in many, many years tomorrow.

    No, I didn’t browbeat them, coerce them or any other despicable behaviour. Just the sneaky stuff, like praying for two decades. Saint James was right.

  103. Boambee John

    “Whether criminal or not, any president in the past who behaved as Trump has behaved during the election and his presidency would have been impeached. The unwillingness of the Republicans to hold Trump to standards of the past is sad. But they have opened to door for future Democratic presidents to act in ways they will not be happy with. They have allowed behaviors and actions to occur without push back that will allow a future Democratic president to act in a much more liberal fashion. They will not be happy with what they have created.”

    If you want to know what the fascist left are up to, look at what they accuse their opponents of doing. Scan back in your minds through the eras of Obama and Clinton. IRS, FBI, CIA, NSA used against opponents. Exploitation of young women. Arkancide.

    What could Republicans possibly do that the fascist left has not already done?

  104. mh

    We haven’t reached the bottom of the Dem 2020 candidates yet

    Mayor Pete Buttigieg: ‘Think of Something Really Gay — That’s How Gay I Am’

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/04/19/mayor-pete-buttigieg-think-of-something-really-gay-thats-how-gay-i-am/

  105. I wonder how an Australian PM would fare if he had been consorting with known criminals for decades, boasted of sexual assault, and had raped his ex-wife.
    Truly, the USA is a lunatic asylum.

  106. Bruce of Newcastle

    DrBeau – The point of Jesus taking our iniquities upon himself is that (a) God, who is a God of justice, requires the crimes all to be paid for and (b) we have nothing we can use to pay with. We have no bank account at Antares filled with Denebian bezants with which to pay the fine, to paraphrase.

    Thus it is a choice between being redeemed by the payment Jesus made or being justly chucked into Hell for all eternity. And no, Hell isn’t a nice place. Which would you rather happen to you?

    All that is required is to believe Christ Jesus. Which sounds easy, but it is actually very hard to do as you yourself demonstrate. Eph 2:8-9:

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

    “Faith” (πίστις) in the original Greek is the same word as “belief”.

  107. Confused Old Misfit

    The hero of the Dems JFK was a man’s man to his bootstraps.

    Yes, the Kennedy brothers popularized the “waitress sandwich”.
    Which, as long as the waitress was willing, sounds like fun!

  108. OldOzzie

    William Barr vindicated

    Now, we know that Barr’s summary was completely accurate. Compare it to the conclusions in the Mueller report. You will see that Barr faithfully reported what Mueller wrote.

    Focus particularly on the first paragraph of the section of Barr’s summary under the heading “Obstruction of Justice.” Given Mueller’s convoluted approach to this topic, it must not have been easy to summarize this volume of the report succinctly and at the same time accurately. But Barr did.

    Barr’s critics aren’t admitting they were wrong. Hating Trump means never having to say you’re sorry.

    Instead, they have moved on to the next slander. Now, they are denouncing Barr for his press conference of today, parroting the line that he behaved like Trump’s attorney rather than the Attorney General of the United States.

    This line too is rubbish, as Andy McCarthy shows here. But before turning to that battlefield, I wanted to point out how ridiculously and maliciously off-base some in the Trump-hating crowd were with regard to Barr’s summary.

    Plainly, this crew is prepared to smear anyone who stands in the way of their effort to paint the President of the United States as a criminal regardless of whether he’s guilty of any crime.

  109. Bruce of Newcastle

    Btw, sorry for the slow reply DrB – I was down at the shops. Beautiful day with butcherbirds singing in the trees in the car park! Then had my gravatar birdie waiting for me when I returned. Been coming around most days for going on 6 years and is the longest running customer of Cafe Bruce.

  110. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    He believes that Sweden and Germany are doing better than USA because of having workers on the boards.

    Hmm. Speaking freely at Berkeley raises some flags for me. Wot, no Antifa? What indices of ‘morality’ are being used to indicate ‘betterness’ in this assessment? Very suss all round, I suspect. That said, the German education system is marginally better than most due to its emphasis on streaming. They haven’t lost the plot in that regard, although they are straying well off the reservation elsewhere. German workers do understand more about technology and the value of quality control.

  111. mh

    I see the Deep State lovers Bobby Numbers and Monty still can’t let go of their State overlords.

    This is fun to watch!

    🍿 🍿 🍿

  112. Confused Old Misfit

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #2992714, posted on April 20, 2019 at 9:18 am

    Well put.
    It is still a hard concept to deal with if you are not accustomed to belief in anything that you cannot observe or measure in an empirical fashion.

  113. OldOzzie

    Leftists upset about donations to rebuild Notre Dame

    The Yellow Vests aren’t the only political faction that feels aggrieved by the generosity of donors to Notre Dame. Right on schedule, some leftists are characterizing the donations as just another example of “white privilege.”

    They note the comparatively low amount of Euros that have been pledged to restore Brazil’s National Museum that burned last September. They also point to the lack of donations to restore ancient sites destroyed by ISIS in Syria.

    But the donors to Notre Dame are Parisian (or at least French), not Brazilian or Syrian. Notre Dame, the icon of their city, means vastly more to them than a museum in Brazil or a ruin in Syria — not because of “white privilege” but because the Cathedral graces the city where they live and is of immense cultural significance to them personally. The donors might also be serious Catholics

    Just as the complaints of some Yellow Vests are based on implicit socialism, the complaints about “white privilege” are based on the implicit view that one’s nationality and one’s religion count for nothing in particular. This view is probably even more ruinous than socialism.

  114. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Then had my gravatar birdie waiting for me when I returned.

    Such little animal welcomes are very up-cheering, Bruce. Hairy and I love seeing Attapuss’s little ears peeping out anxiously over the glass on our front door as he sits waiting for us to return. Long may your little bird enjoy the facilities at Café Bruce.

  115. Crazyoldranga

    RobK

    March 20th to be precise.

  116. Farmer Gez

    The Mueller investigation is rooted in an absurd justification based on no more than a boozy chat between Papadopoulos and Downer.
    As Mark Steyn sums up, “they have no probable cause for launching this thing”.
    The Steele dossier makes alien anal probing seem kind of believable.

  117. Just a little slice of Fatty 5D’s* criminal history –

    -Trump and his father were sued by the federal government for housing discrimination in the 1970’s for refusing to rent to blacks after an undercover investigation. They lost, signed a consent decree, and were forced to desegregate their properties, which they later violated.

    -Trump was charged with fraud in connection with Trump University. Eric Schneiderman, the Attorney General of New York, who is prosecuting Trump, said, “If you look at the facts of this case, this shows someone who was absolutely shameless in his willingness to lie to people, to say whatever it took to induce them into his phony seminars. Telling people who are in hard economic times — we’re talking about 2008, 2009 — people desperate to hold onto their homes, to make some money, convincing them that he will teach them his entrepreneurial secrets.”

    – Trump Tower was built using undocumented Polish laborers to demolish the building that previously stood on the site. At trial, the workers testified they worked without basic safety equipment like hardhats and gloves and they were supposed to earn $5 an hour from Trump’s low-bid contractor. But court documents show that for weeks, they were paid nothing.
    – Trump’s charitable foundation repeatedly broke IRS rules. In five cases, the Trump Foundation told the IRS that it had given a gift to a charity whose leaders never received it. In two other cases, companies listed as donors to the Trump Foundation reported that those listings were incorrect.

    -His charitable foundation violated tax laws by giving a $25,000 political contribution to a campaign group connected to Florida’s attorney general, Pam Bondi, in 2013. As a registered nonprofit, the Trump Foundation was not allowed to make political donations. He paid a $2,500 fine.

    -Trump bribed the Attorney General of Florida, Pam Bondi to drop her investigation of Trump University. She successfully solicited a donation from him before the fraud case, and afterward, he held a fundraiser for her at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach.

    -A deposition describes him raping his first wife Ivana, pulling out fistfuls of her hair in a fit of rage, stripping off her clothes, then penetrating her forcefully without her consent. The divorce was granted on grounds of Donald’s “cruel and inhuman treatment” of Ivana.

    -He was charged with child rape in a case for which there is an eyewitness and credible information to support the claim. The woman filing suit in April 2016 claimed that as a 13-year-old in 1994, she was enticed to attend parties with the promise of money and modeling jobs at the home of Jeffrey Epstein, a Level 3 registered sex offender (the most dangerous kind), after Epstein was convicted of misconduct with another underage girl.
    This is a small sample – there’s more…

  118. rickw

    I wonder how an Australian PM would fare if he had been consorting with known criminals for decades, boasted of sexual assault, and had raped his ex-wife.

    We will find out shortly. Peanut Head will probably be the next PM.

  119. calli

    Most weren’t saying. For whatever reasons.

    There’s a tension there. Do I remain silent and let you think/find out (Matt 27:12-14) or pipe up (1 Peter 3:15)? Do I try to second-guess why you ask? Do you already know the answer, but have rejected it? Forty nine years has taught me to be wary.

    I endorse what BoN has said. He answered far better than I could ever have done.

  120. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Truly, the USA is a lunatic asylum.

    With regard to traditional familial moralities, the US Presidents from either of the two main Parties have a long history of some rather shonky personal behavior, going right back into the earliest days of the Presidency and following through into the 20th century and now this one.

    Trump is simply another one in the usual mold. Nothing to see there, so follow the policies.
    Plenty of good outcomes for Trump in that direction.

  121. * Trump was deferred for service in Vietnam 5 times and has a weight problem.

  122. Boambee John

    Mueller has attempted to poison the well with the perception of doubt by expressing opinion in an official report on an investigation, which I think is a stain on his career.

    Given the other stains already on his career, he probably thinks this one won’t add much, but will get him career opportunities in the MSM, and access to all the fashionable soirees.

  123. feelthebern

    In comparison, Hore and Castle are Kiwi rejects, seemingly able to trade off their nationality because our game is such a basket-case, our board members will listen to anyone wearing an All Blacks tracksuit.

    Alan Jones in the Oz today.
    Made me laugh.
    Raelene Castle will go on the Alan Jones show at some stage.

  124. Mater

    1735099
    #2992717, posted on April 20, 2019 at 9:18 am

    fascist left

    Oxymoron alert.

    “All these pretences and lies have collapsed together. The most squirming apologists now will not be able to convince anyone but idiots of their sincerity. At last the issue stands clear. Hitlerism is brown communism, Stalinism is red fascism. The world will now understand the the only real “ideological” issue is one between democracy, liberty and peace on the one hand and despotism, terror and war on the other.”

    The New York Times, Editorial – ‘The Russian Betrayal’, 18 September 1939

  125. Bruce of Newcastle

    As to irrationality, Einstein said entanglement was “spooky action at a distance”. Is quantum mechanics irrational? Or was it just that Einstein hadn’t yet worked out that it was reality, and Newtonian mechanics a simplistic illusion?

    I think it’s fun that the simulation hypothesis raised its head again last week:

    Religion & The Simulation Hypothesis, Part 2: Is Karma A Questing Algorithm? (12 Apr)

    The logical question then is this: if the hypothesis is true, and the maker of the software did so for a reason, and that reason was to have offspring (let’s say), what would he do in terms of letting his candidates for adoption know what he wants of them?

    He would tell them, wouldn’t he?

  126. Whether criminal or not

    That’s the problem you idiot, Bob Bobby Bob.

    It was a criminal investigation.

    In a free and civilised society, if the prosecution has no grounds to proceed, no one gets indicted.

  127. feelthebern

    * Trump was deferred for service in Vietnam 5 times and has a weight problem.

    Numbers also deferred his service in Vietnam & has a chip on his shoulder about his chicken hawk dad who he wouldn’t stand up to.

  128. Well said Mater. Great quote, considering you are using the “infallible” NYT.

  129. Trump is simply another one in the usual mold

    Rubbish.
    Whilst Clinton and Kennedy may have had dodgy sexual mores, they did not run businesses that made a profit from exploitation. They did not get rich by criminal process, fraud and misrepresentation.
    Nor did either of them assault their partners.
    There is something completely unprecedented about this individual’s lack of basic morals.

  130. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Numbers also deferred his service in Vietnam & has a chip on his shoulder about his chicken hawk dad who he wouldn’t stand up to.

    Numbers had a perfectly legal option to being conscripted, and serving two years full time..

  131. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    * Trump was deferred for service in Vietnam 5 times and has a weight problem.

    Edward Kennedy had a very cushy army position generally accepted as gained for him by his family’s great influence for his two-year stint in the military; and he was a fat slob too.

    So nothing politically unusual, and nothing to see here. Move on, Numbers.
    You are flogging a dead horse.

  132. Why pick on Christians at Easter?

    It is like being an overly pious Christian that doesn’t let kids have Santa Claus.

    Atheism isn’t necessarily a religion but there are certain repeatable behaviours that seem like rituals.

  133. Boambee John


    1735099
    #2992717, posted on April 20, 2019 at 9:18 am
    fascist left

    Oxymoron alert.

    An oxymoron is a “seeming self-contradiction”. Calling fascists out as members of the left is accurate.

  134. feelthebern

    Kennedy may have had dodgy sexual mores,

    & was the birth of neo-conservatism.

  135. they did not run businesses that made a profit from exploitation

    You once said all profit was wrong. You are on the extreme end on moonbeam, it wasn’t my fault that the Holodomor happened communism.

    You have never defended the crimes of the Viet Minh. They premeditated the murder of 15,000 landlords.

    Maybe you should ask the priest at Easter Mass about what the regime did to the churches once the south fell.

  136. calli

    Bereft of a show trial, the Left now grieves. What to do? Where do we go now?

    💡

    Orange Man Baaaaad!

  137. rickw

    But they are all irrational.

    Why irrational? There are plenty of scientists and ordinary folk who have concluded that the most rational conclusion is that God exists.

  138. Mak Siccar

    Coming soon to ‘our’ ABC!

    Delingpole: ‘Climate Change: The Facts’ Was the BBC’s Biggest Lie Ever

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/04/18/more-outrageous-green-lies-from-attenborough-and-the-bbc/

  139. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    You need to read more Kennedy biographical material Numbers, and then move on to the Clintons.
    Your outrage over Trump is so patently confected. All the usual CNN memes.
    The seat of power is rarely sat on by perfect men. Or perfect women, for that matter.
    A little evenly-scattered skepticism is a precious asset when engaging in historical comparisons.

  140. feelthebern

    Until numbers addresses his father’s grandstanding, he will never get over it.
    His father took a lot of pride every week with prayers being offered at mass for “son of numbers father”.

  141. feelthebern

    Who killed more people?
    The Kennedy family?
    The Clinton family?
    The Trump family?

  142. Boambee John

    1735099
    #2992733, posted on April 20, 2019 at 9:36 am
    * Trump was deferred for service in Vietnam 5 times and has a weight problem.

    Another recurrence of that psychological problem, sad. Seems to be a form of OCD.

  143. Roger

    This is not going to end well:

    Macron now indicates he wants the new Notre Dame spire to be a “contemporary architectural gesture”.

  144. OldOzzie

    The Joys of Life, Easter and Kids and Grand kids

    Drinking Coffee and eating Hot Cross Bun whilst perusing World News and Cat Blog

    Nonna and Grandchild 7 (Grandson 7 Years Old) setting off on walk around neighborhood (yes I know , I should be going too, but am slack) both wearing their fitness watches – Wirthings in case of Nonna (looks like a normal watch) and Garmin (saved up and paid by Grandson by his recycling plastic bottles etc in pay recycles) for Grandson.

    Youngest Daughter and Son-in-law doing clean up and Youngest Daughter brought in a “Happy Grandparents Day” Card my 7 year old Grandson did in Pre-School Kindy 3 years ago – hand decorated on the front

    My Grandpa’s Name isNonno

    He is 91 (hey do I look that Old? 74) years old

    He has black hair and brown eyes

    His job is help us

    He likes to watch TV

    He is special because he loves me . He also lives in Italy. He also loves big big big big big big big big big hugs and kisses Harrison

    Not sure where He also Lives in Italy came from, possibly because we had just been to Italy.

  145. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    You need to read more Kennedy biographical material Numbers, and then move on to the Clintons.

    I’d specifically recommend a biography of Joe Kennedy Senior, and how he made his money.

  146. lotocoti

    Enough with the asterisking, SaC*
    *If he wasn’t here, he’d be wandering the streets, Shouting at Clouds.

  147. feelthebern

    son: i’m going to local doctor who got my mates out of vietnam.
    father: i’ve told everyone you’re going already & love the attention I’m getting…you’re going.
    son: …..

  148. Infidel Tiger

    Macron will be living in exile while Notre Dame is being rebuilt.

    He is an irrelevant blemish on the French soul and will very quickly be forgotten just as that Hawaiian fella was in the US.

  149. C.L.

    I’m fairly indifferent to the spire of ND, to be honest.
    It was hideous and a new addition anyway (plonked up there in the 19th century).
    The original spire was taken down in the late 1780s after 500 years.

    That said, I’m on record predicting the new new spire will be the centerpiece for Mohammedian/leftist trolling; it will almost certainly be a minaret by another name.

  150. miltonf

    I’d specifically recommend a biography of Joe Kennedy Senior, and how he made his money.

    My dad always told me he made his money bootlegging. Is there a biography you can recommend ZK2A?

    Chappaqiddik was a very good moview btw.

  151. C.L.

    I’m fairly indifferent to the spire of ND, to be honest.
    It was hideous and a new addition anyway (plonked up there in the 19th century).
    The original spire was taken down in the late 1780s after 500 years.

    That said, I’m on record predicting the new new spire will be the centerpiece for Mvzl1m/leftist trolling; it will almost certainly be a minaret by another name.

  152. struth

    I wonder how an Australian PM would fare if he had been consorting with known criminals for decades, boasted of sexual assault, and had raped his ex-wife.
    Truly, the USA is a lunatic asylum.

    TDS, I have to admit at being shocked by it’s intensity.
    I thought I understood the level of shock the left went though when they first actually got a fight, totally bonkers etc, crying in the streets, wearing pussy hats and being violent, but this clasping at straws so many years into the future, shows an insanity that , again, I admit to being a bit shocked by .

    The left, …………………………..when you think they’re just insane, they prove they’re worse………………

    Facts are irrelevant to them.
    They are at war.
    Last night got into the old Glowball warming, Trump delusion conversation with the family lefty, who is now denying being one, by the way.
    He’d brainwashed his son, and both doing the typical aloof routine.
    Ended up just paying the shit out of them, laughing at them, and even got to remind him of the bet he’d made a couple of years ago, that Trump (peace be upon him) was going to be impeached in the next two weeks, it was done and dusted…ha ha.

    The son had never heard the other side before, and knew nothing as expected, didn’t know why it’s always “by 2030” and his dad didn’t know who Antonio Gutterres was.
    So all the usually crap was dished up to me as they consider themselves a superior race, and I always play the blokey truckie.
    The hat came off, my speech became more fluent and precise, and I was nice but firm and went for the jugular.
    They were flummoxed.
    I had them silenced.
    It wasn’t hard.
    The son, took in what I was saying about him being brainwashed at school.
    He said yeah, they push homo stuff and climate change down our throats but that doesn’t mean we believe all that shit, we still call each other homos.
    I asked, what about the girls?
    He said, Aw they’re real radical lefties you don’t say anything in front of them, they’ll go off.
    How very totalitarian of them, I said,
    You should be saying plenty to them.
    Never allow yourself to be silenced.

    Blah, blah.
    The thing you forget sometimes, is that our right wing message spoken proudly and with reason, was a relief to hear from that boy, and when I had the answers, I watched his young brain tick over.
    He is a very smart lad, and the weight of left wing propaganda was lifted from his shoulders, in front of his father, who I think is coming around as well.
    Too much to report on the whole conversation, debate , because it went on for a couple of hours but they heard shit they never have had put to them, and it was a beautiful thing.

    Fuck the ABC and the education system, in this case, these two are victims of both.

  153. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    You guys are really going to have to ignore numbies, he is a vacuous old fart. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks…

  154. calli

    a “contemporary architectural gesture”.

    Yep

  155. feelthebern

    Simply amazing that Mueller didn’t interview Downer.
    I remember a time when the press smelt a rat & went after it.
    Unfortunately, now it’s all about promoting the approved narrative.

  156. OldOzzie

    Folau stands alone as the rest fall into line with their pay masters

    Alan Jones

    The rugby family are meant to believe that Israel Folau is fighting for his future. Surely the boot is on the wrong foot. Israel must stay. Enough is enough. The board must go.

    Nonetheless, watch the Judas brigade and its mercenary membership line up behind Rugby Australia and spout the party line. Israel speaks from conviction and Christian commitment.

    What is the motivation for many of his critics in Rugby administration? Sadly the Wallabies coach, Michael Cheika, has lost his moral compass on this; but then, in this day and age, would he be the next victim if he were to defend Folau’s right to cite the King James Bible?

    Wallabies captain Michael Hooper is on the payroll for more than $1 million. Why put that at risk by defending Israel’s right to express a biblical truth?

    How many people are singing the company tune to keep their gravy train rolling?

    To use a biblical analogy, it is sickening to see these blokes taking their pieces of silver to sell out their former teammate and celebrated player. Rod Kafer somewhat fancifully said: “The Wallabies are a better team without Folau.” With that judgment, why would anyone listen to his commentary? No wonder he failed as a coach if that is his evaluation of a prodigious talent.

    Phil Waugh was a tough and uncompromising player, dedicated totally to the green-and-gold. But now, sadly, on the board of Rugby Australia, he is singing the board’s tune.

    If as some suggest, though I don’t agree, Folau should have kept quiet surely that is precisely what some of his critics should be doing. But if the gravy train terminates at Rugby Australia then I suppose it is asking for too much moral courage to expect some people to get off the train rather than stay on it for the money.

    I know Karmichael Hunt. He is a good person and a fine player. He has been silly and he knows that. But he has been given three chances. His obvious decency, to anyone who knows him, was twice damaged by drug-related offences; but he is now on chance number three.

    I don’t have a problem with that. I would give anyone a second chance, or a third chance if I knew that what lay in the future was the prospect of a good and reformed person. But is our message to kids that the taking of drugs is OK for the “values of the game”, but having strong religious beliefs and sharing them is wrong.

    How odd that Rugby Australia preaches “diversity” and “inclusiveness” when what they really mean is uniformity or exclusion.

    It was General George Patton, who commanded the US Seventh Army in the Mediterranean theatre in World War II and the US Third Army in France and Germany following the Allied invasion of Normandy, who said: “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”

    The only person we have not heard from is Scott Johnson. He has been back almost a month and he is silent. Where does he stand on this matter? Does he also think that it is OK for Qantas to sign contracts with nations where homosexuals and women are treated abominably; yet we are prepared to ostracise, demonise, punish and banish an Australian who has done nothing wrong other than state his beliefs. Is Johnson going to fall into line with the rest of the gravy train brigade? He is on big money. He was appointed, as I understand it, to be the boss; but when real leadership is needed, he has become gun-shy.

    So keen to fall in line with the Qantas demands and gather up the money, Rugby Australia have completely ballsed up the whole show.

    Of course, they have good form in the balls-up business. Remember the chairman Cameron Clyne calling a press conference over the summer then wet the bed when he was asked to explain the coaching restructure.

    The bed wetters are now running around squeaking that Qantas may pull their sponsorship because Alan Joyce wants Rugby Australia to sack Folau and, apparently, any of his mates who hold similar views. If Joyce is not applying the weights to Rugby Australia, let him clear the air and say so; but to the rugby follower, a dirty tail seems to be wagging a mongrel dog and the politically correct minority sharpen their knives.

    Before proclaiming Folau’s guilt, one would have thought he was entitled to the deliberation of a tribunal. But RA have already said he won’t play for Australia; he won’t be picked for NSW; his contract will be ripped up. Folau is, sensibly, going to contest all this. But this is after the event.

    Rugby Australia have already called for punishment, banishment and termination because Folau warned “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters, hell awaits you, repent, only Jesus saves … Jesus Christ loves you and has given you time to turn away from your sin and come to him”. This is nothing more than what all Christians are called to do. It is part of the great commission Jesus gave to his disciples.

    Matthew 26:18-20: “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you’. ”

    We are talking about a young man who is a dedicated Christian expressing a legitimate view based on biblical teaching. Christians around the world are under siege. It appears now that sanctions of the most draconian kind are being imposed on Christians here who dare to proclaim their faith.

    Anglican Bishop Michael Stead, who heads the South Sydney diocese, said on Tuesday: “If a rugby player can be sacked for doing nothing more than posting on his social media page what is essentially a summary of the Bible, then it is a signal to the rest of us that we better keep our mouths shut.”

    Forcing people to keep their mouths shut because they might express a view contrary to ours has almost become the norm. It is interesting that Joyce is entitled to his view even though, apparently, Folau is not. But surely Joyce cannot appropriate his view to the whole Qantas family, many of whom disagree with him.

    And by what Christian teaching do we seek to destroy an individual and his career for articulating a summary from the Bible, which is thousands of years old? Folau, as I have said before, is from a devoutly religious Polynesian family and it is interesting that many who now criticise him have, in the past, demanded tolerance for their viewpoint.

    And that is fair enough. A diversity of viewpoints is healthy; but none of that tolerance is extended toward Folau. What is to happen to many of Folau’s fellow players who “liked” what he had to say? Are they to be banished? The drunks, the liars, the thieves, the fornicators and the atheists are not complaining.

    Have we reached the point articulated in the Keith Murdoch Oration in Melbourne on Tuesday night by the chief executive of News Corp, Robert Thomson, who declared that a mob mentality has taken hold across much of the west … with “illiberal liberals” on a “seemingly endless, insatiable quest” for indignation and umbrage.

    Thomson declared: “We are going through a strange phase in seeking affirmation through victimhood; and one example was the seething secularism that portrays any person of faith, whether an evanescent evangelical or occasional attendee at mass or synagogue or mosque or temple, as a nutter, a fruitcake, touched, a devotee of the deviant.”

    Is that, shamefully, the category in which we seek to cast Folau? Billy Vunipola, the England number 8, has voiced his support and he too has been muzzled. There are thousands of other Pacific Island players, all over the world, who hold strong religious beliefs and back Folau.

    Most of these players support families back in the islands and will remain silent for fear that if they speak up, they will lose their contracts and they will no longer be able to support their extended families. Be proud Cameron Clyne. What a legacy.

    It has been jarring for the average Australian rugby fan to turn on the news and see Rugby Australia chief executive Raelene Castle and NSW Rugby boss Andrew Hore, both Kiwis, talking rubbish and questioning the character of Folau. The difference is, Folau is authentic.

    In comparison, Hore and Castle are Kiwi rejects, seemingly able to trade off their nationality because our game is such a basket-case, our board members will listen to anyone wearing an All Blacks tracksuit.

    Who the hell hired these people to run NSW and Australian Rugby? Christianity was introduced into the Pacific Islands by missionaries. Most of these Islander people don’t have a lot of material things. But you only have to see their smiles to know they are rich of heart. They could teach our administrators a lot. Israel, keep your head high. There are millions of ordinary Australians in your corner. Not all of them share your beliefs but they recognise your right to express them and they understand you are coming from a place of love. For those of us who have looked at your complete comments, we understand you are genuinely concerned for your fellow man.

    These words are not yours. They have been part of the scriptures for 2000 years.

    As I have said this week, Folau has shown a rare degree of moral courage. I would want him in my team any day.

    Beyond his rugby skills, his example of moral courage is one that should inspire young people. This is not a battle that rugby administrators can win but they think they can. We know that rugby today is in a dark place.

  157. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    It is like being an overly pious Christian that doesn’t let kids have Santa Claus.

    Very stupidly overly pious, for Santa Claus is named after an extremely pious Christian figure. The old pagan All Father, the Yule Father, was renamed after St. Nicholas by the Trinitarian Christians. The name devolved via the Dutch from St. Nicholas to Sinta Claus. St. Nicholas was a real man most famed for attending a theological Synod on the nature of the Christian godhead, where he angrily punched the theologian Arius on the nose, thus turning it red (Odin’s colour, and forever after a part of the old sprite’s nose, and that of his reindeer too; Santa being a drinker, imbibing at each house he visited, also aligned him with both the red nose meme and the drunken feasts of warriors in Valholl). The Arian belief that Christ was separate to The Father was I believe hugely acceptable and popular (a popularity hitherto unexplained) amongst heathen Germanic peoples during the conversion period because it allowed them to identify their own All Father with the Christian one. The Nicean-declared ‘triune unity’ put an end to that sort of dissembling. The old All Father, now simply a pagan sprite, had to be Christianised. I have gathered together quite a lot of folkloric material from various European countries re this figure; fascinating stuff, as Leigh mentioned above. And there is heaps more of it, relating to many figures of legend, and also to high days and holy days.

  158. You once said all profit was wrong. You are on the extreme end on moonbeam, it wasn’t my fault that the Holodomor happened communism.
    You have never defended the crimes of the Viet Minh. They premeditated the murder of 15,000 landlords.

    My dad always told me he made his money bootlegging. Is there a biography you can recommend ZK2A?
    Chappaqiddik was a very good moview btw.

    None of this “whataboutism” has anything to do with the current POTUS.
    Classic deflection…..

  159. Bruce of Newcastle

    Macron now indicates he wants the new Notre Dame spire to be a “contemporary architectural gesture”.

    Like this?
    US artist erects giant green ‘butt plug’ in Paris (2014)
    Maybe 2014 is too ancient and historical, maybe he wants something even more contemporaneous.

  160. feelthebern

    “whataboutism”

    That which numbers doesn’t want to discuss.

  161. C.L.

    Robert De Mattei: The Church is Burning.

    At this time, another symbolic image overlaps that of the Notre Dame blaze: a scene with Pope Francis, Vicar of Christ, kissing the feet of three Sudanese Mvzl1m leaders, asking them “to extinguish the fires of war once and for all.” This happened on April 11th at the end of a spiritual retreat in the Vatican, conceived by the (schismatic) Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby. Immediately afterwards, on the first day of Holy Week, the French cathedral – the most famous and most visited in the world after St. Peter’s – was consumed by flames.

    In the world of those faithful to Tradition, there is an ongoing discussion, at times heated [in the attempt] to establish whether this or that verbal expression by Pope Francis can be considered heretical. But this theological and canonical investigation risks staying abstract and ignoring the language of gestures, which expresses in a direct manner a reality that every baptized person who has kept his sensus fidei can easily discern. Well then, rarely has the Church been humiliated by gestures like the one made by Pope Francis prostrated at the feet of political and other religious leaders. Francis is in fact, the Vicar on Earth of the King of Kings, to Whom everyone owes homage. There can never be any true peace outside the Truth proclaimed by He Who is the only Prince of Peace. His dominion embraces all men, as Pope Pius XI reminds us of in his encyclical Quas Primas, of December 11th 1925, citing the words of his predecessor Leo XIII …

    On April 11th Jesus Christ was humiliated by His Vicar, with an act just as symbolic as the fire on April 15th.

  162. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    he is a vacuous old fart

    We have some really nice old guys on the Cat. Happy Easter, Macbeth, if you are around.
    No need to put up with Numbers going on like CNN, spouting forth endless drivel.

  163. DrBeauGan

    2Dogs, you made a pronouncement about atheism and agnosticism the other night to which I didn’t reply. My reason is that I think the English language inadequate for discussing such things. I offer an alternative. I doubt if you will be interested, but I feel the moral obligation.

    Let Q denote an assertion, and let q denote its credibility, a number between 0 and 1 including the end points. Then to claim Q has credibility 0 is to assert Q is false, if q=1 then it is certain.

    I define complete agnosticism about Q as the assertion that all possible values of q are equally likely. I can give them all the value 1, and represent this claim by the graph that has uniform height 1 over the interval [0,1] of numbers between 0 and 1. This has the advantage of making the area under the curve 1, making the agnosticism function a probability density function (pdf for short. Nothing to do with Adobe.)

    If Q were the proposition that the next toss of a coin will be a Head, then a rational man would have an agnosticism function that was a curve that went through 0 at 0 and also at 1. This is because he would think it unlikely that getting a Head is either impossible or certain. It would probably have a big peak at 1/2, which is the assumption that the coin is fair and symmetrical. It would be fairly high for nearby values, to reflect the belief that the coin might not be entirely symmetrical and could be slightly biased.

    A theoretician with no sense of reality, might, I suppose, hold the religious belief that the right pdf would be what physicists call a Dirac delta function centred on 1/2, which is zero for every value except 1/2, infinite at 1/2, and still has an area under the curve of 1. This might strike you as impossible and you’d be right, but Dirac was a physicist. Having beliefs represented by a Dirac delta function is sometimes justified, but usually a sign of derangement.

    Now if Q is the proposition ‘God exists’, the beliefs of a religious atheist might be represented by a Dirac delta function over 0, those of a committed deist by a Dirac delta function over 1, and a complete agnostic by the uniform constant function of height 1.

    Sane people are seldom that extreme. Most agnostics would probably have an agnosticism function that is low at both ends because certainty either way is uncomfortable, and peaks gently past 1/2 because it would be nice to think they have a chance of heaven. My function for that particular Q would be low at zero because I’m not certain God does not exist, even lower at 1 because I’ve little confidence that He does, and would peak close to zero because I think His credibility low.

    If He ever unzips the sky, peers in and says “Beau Gan, repent!” I shall immediately update my agnosticism function.

    This may all sound bizarre, but it’s how some of us think.

  164. TDS, I have to admit at being shocked by it’s intensity.
    I thought I understood the level of shock the left went though when they first actually got a fight,

    Trump has nothing to do with “Left” or “Right”.
    He has absolutely no principle of any kind, let alone political.
    His leadership has everything to do with divide and conquer, using fear instead of hope, hate instead of love, and greed instead of generosity.
    In other words, the Septics thoroughly deserve him.

  165. Classic deflection…

    1. No indictments, babbling on about collusion.
    2. Insane far left economic lunacy, to the left of Trotsky.
    3. Gives the Viet Minh a pass for genocide of their own.

  166. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    My dad always told me he made his money bootlegging. Is there a biography you can recommend ZK2A?

    Joe Kennedy Senior made his money bootlegging, insider trading on Wall Street, and, during the Second World War he had a nice little sideline shipping black market grog across the Atlantic, to be sold in England. Good biography is “The Patriarch” by David Nasaw.

  167. OldOzzie

    Folau stands alone as the rest fall into line with their pay masters

    Alan Jones

    The rugby family are meant to believe that Isr#el Folau is fighting for his future. Surely the boot is on the wrong foot. Israel must stay. Enough is enough. The board must go.

    Nonetheless, watch the Judas brigade and its mercenary membership line up behind Rugby Australia and spout the party line. Isr#el speaks from conviction and Christian commitment.

    What is the motivation for many of his critics in Rugby administration? Sadly the Wallabies coach, Michael Cheika, has lost his moral compass on this; but then, in this day and age, would he be the next victim if he were to defend Folau’s right to cite the King James Bible?

    Wallabies captain Michael Hooper is on the payroll for more than $1 million. Why put that at risk by defending Israel’s right to express a biblical truth?

    How many people are singing the company tune to keep their gravy train rolling?

    To use a biblical analogy, it is sickening to see these blokes taking their pieces of silver to sell out their former teammate and celebrated player. Rod Kafer somewhat fancifully said: “The Wallabies are a better team without Folau.” With that judgment, why would anyone listen to his commentary? No wonder he failed as a coach if that is his evaluation of a prodigious talent.

    Phil Waugh was a tough and uncompromising player, dedicated totally to the green-and-gold. But now, sadly, on the board of Rugby Australia, he is singing the board’s tune.

    If as some suggest, though I don’t agree, Folau should have kept quiet surely that is precisely what some of his critics should be doing. But if the gravy train terminates at Rugby Australia then I suppose it is asking for too much moral courage to expect some people to get off the train rather than stay on it for the money.

    I know Karmichael Hunt. He is a good person and a fine player. He has been silly and he knows that. But he has been given three chances. His obvious decency, to anyone who knows him, was twice damaged by drug-related offences; but he is now on chance number three.

    I don’t have a problem with that. I would give anyone a second chance, or a third chance if I knew that what lay in the future was the prospect of a good and reformed person. But is our message to kids that the taking of drugs is OK for the “values of the game”, but having strong religious beliefs and sharing them is wrong.

    How odd that Rugby Australia preaches “diversity” and “inclusiveness” when what they really mean is uniformity or exclusion.

    It was General George Patton, who commanded the US Seventh Army in the Mediterranean theatre in World War II and the US Third Army in France and Germany following the Allied invasion of Normandy, who said: “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”

    The only person we have not heard from is Scott Johnson. He has been back almost a month and he is silent. Where does he stand on this matter? Does he also think that it is OK for Qantas to sign contracts with nations where h#mosexuals and women are treated abominably; yet we are prepared to ostracise, demonise, punish and banish an Australian who has done nothing wrong other than state his beliefs. Is Johnson going to fall into line with the rest of the gravy train brigade? He is on big money. He was appointed, as I understand it, to be the boss; but when real leadership is needed, he has become gun-shy.

    So keen to fall in line with the Qantas demands and gather up the money, Rugby Australia have completely ballsed up the whole show.

    Of course, they have good form in the balls-up business. Remember the chairman Cameron Clyne calling a press conference over the summer then wet the bed when he was asked to explain the coaching restructure.

    The bed wetters are now running around squeaking that Qantas may pull their sponsorship because Alan Joyce wants Rugby Australia to sack Folau and, apparently, any of his mates who hold similar views. If Joyce is not applying the weights to Rugby Australia, let him clear the air and say so; but to the rugby follower, a dirty tail seems to be wagging a mongrel dog and the politically correct minority sharpen their knives.

    End of Part 1

  168. Infidel Tiger

    He believes that Sweden and Germany are doing better than USA because of having workers on the boards.

    By what measure are they doing better?

  169. Frank

    So. Seems topical to wheel one of the old ones out again.

    Jesus walks into a hotel, throws a bunch of nails down on the front desk and asks “got somewhere you can put me up for the night?”

    Scuttles off.

  170. feelthebern

    America would have been so much better without the Kennedy Klan.

  171. C.L.

    The science is in: Plastic bag bans pointless.

    University of Sydney economist Rebecca Taylor started studying bag regulations because it seemed as though every time she moved for a new job — from Washington, D.C., to California to Australia — bag restrictions were implemented shortly after. “Yeah, these policies might be following me,” she jokes. Taylor recently published a study of bag regulations in California. It’s a classic tale of unintended consequences.

    Before California banned plastic shopping bags statewide in late 2016, a wave of 139 California cities and counties implemented the policy themselves. Taylor and colleagues compared bag use in cities with bans with those without them. For six months, they spent weekends in grocery stores tallying the types of bags people carried out (she admits these weren’t her wildest weekends). She also analyzed these stores’ sales data.

    Taylor found these bag bans did what they were supposed to: People in the cities with the bans used fewer plastic bags, which led to about 40 million fewer pounds of plastic trash per year. But people who used to reuse their shopping bags for other purposes, like picking up dog poop or lining trash bins, still needed bags. “What I found was that sales of garbage bags actually skyrocketed after plastic grocery bags were banned,” she says. This was particularly the case for small, 4-gallon bags, which saw a 120 percent increase in sales after bans went into effect.

    Trash bags are thick and use more plastic than typical shopping bags. “So about 30 percent of the plastic that was eliminated by the ban comes back in the form of thicker garbage bags,” Taylor says. On top of that, cities that banned plastic bags saw a surge in the use of paper bags, which she estimates resulted in about 80 million pounds of extra paper trash per year.

    Plastic haters, it’s time to brace yourselves. A bunch of studies find that paper bags are actually worse for the environment. They require cutting down and processing trees, which involves lots of water, toxic chemicals, fuel and heavy machinery. While paper is biodegradable and avoids some of the problems of plastic, Taylor says, the huge increase of paper, together with the uptick in plastic trash bags, means banning plastic shopping bags increases greenhouse gas emissions. That said, these bans do reduce nonbiodegradable litter.

    What about reusable cloth bags? We know die-hard public radio fans love them! They’ve got to be great, right?

    Nope. They can be even worse.

    A 2011 study by the U.K. government found a person would have to reuse a cotton tote bag 131 times before it was better for climate change than using a plastic grocery bag once. The Danish government recently did a study that took into account environmental impacts beyond simply greenhouse gas emissions, including water use, damage to ecosystems and air pollution. These factors make cloth bags even worse. They estimate you would have to use an organic cotton bag 20,000 times more than a plastic grocery bag to make using it better for the environment.

    The most environment-friendly way to carry groceries is to use the same bag over and over again. According to the Danish study, the best reusable ones are made from polyester or plastics like polypropylene. Those still have to be used dozens and dozens of times to be greener than plastic grocery bags, which have the smallest carbon footprint for a single use.

  172. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    On April 11th Jesus Christ was humiliated by His Vicar, with an act just as symbolic as the fire on April 15th.

    I expect, CL, that St. Nicholas would have punched this particular Francis on the nose.
    Churchmen in those days took their theology very seriously. Foundation of their belief.
    Francis is the inheritor of all of this and seems hell bent (not a figure of speech) on trashing this.

  173. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    So. Seems topical to wheel one of the old ones out again.

    “Listen, mate, you drop that cross one more time, you’re off this parade.”

    Scuttles off…

  174. OldOzzie

    Fol#u stands alone as the rest fall into line with their pay masters

    Alan Jones

    The rugby family are meant to believe that Isr#el Fol#u is fighting for his future. Surely the boot is on the wrong foot. Isr#el must stay. Enough is enough. The board must go.

    Nonetheless, watch the Judas brigade and its mercenary membership line up behind Rugby Australia and spout the party line. Isr#el speaks from conviction and Christian commitment.

    What is the motivation for many of his critics in Rugby administration? Sadly the Wallabies coach, Michael Cheika, has lost his moral compass on this; but then, in this day and age, would he be the next victim if he were to defend Fol#u’s right to cite the King James Bible?

    Wallabies captain Michael Hooper is on the payroll for more than $1 million. Why put that at risk by defending Isr#el’s right to express a biblical truth?

    How many people are singing the company tune to keep their gravy train rolling?

    To use a biblical analogy, it is sickening to see these blokes taking their pieces of silver to sell out their former teammate and celebrated player. Rod Kafer somewhat fancifully said: “The Wallabies are a better team without Fol#u.” With that judgment, why would anyone listen to his commentary? No wonder he failed as a coach if that is his evaluation of a prodigious talent.

    Phil Waugh was a tough and uncompromising player, dedicated totally to the green-and-gold. But now, sadly, on the board of Rugby Australia, he is singing the board’s tune.

    If as some suggest, though I don’t agree, Fol#u should have kept quiet surely that is precisely what some of his critics should be doing. But if the gravy train terminates at Rugby Australia then I suppose it is asking for too much moral courage to expect some people to get off the train rather than stay on it for the money.

    I know Karmichael Hunt. He is a good person and a fine player. He has been silly and he knows that. But he has been given three chances. His obvious decency, to anyone who knows him, was twice damaged by drug-related offences; but he is now on chance number three.

    I don’t have a problem with that. I would give anyone a second chance, or a third chance if I knew that what lay in the future was the prospect of a good and reformed person. But is our message to kids that the taking of drugs is OK for the “values of the game”, but having strong religious beliefs and sharing them is wrong.

    How odd that Rugby Australia preaches “diversity” and “inclusiveness” when what they really mean is uniformity or exclusion.

    It was General George Patton, who commanded the US Seventh Army in the Mediterranean theatre in World War II and the US Third Army in France and Germany following the Allied invasion of Normandy, who said: “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”

    The only person we have not heard from is Scott Johnson. He has been back almost a month and he is silent. Where does he stand on this matter? Does he also think that it is OK for Qantas to sign contracts with nations where h#mosexuals and women are treated abominably; yet we are prepared to ostracise, demonise, punish and banish an Australian who has done nothing wrong other than state his beliefs. Is Johnson going to fall into line with the rest of the gravy train brigade? He is on big money. He was appointed, as I understand it, to be the boss; but when real leadership is needed, he has become gun-shy.

    So keen to fall in line with the Qantas demands and gather up the money, Rugby Australia have completely b#llsed up the whole show.

    Of course, they have good form in the b#lls-up business. Remember the chairman Cameron Clyne calling a press conference over the summer then wet the bed when he was asked to explain the coaching restructure.

    The bed wetters are now running around squeaking that Qantas may pull their sponsorship because Alan Joyce wants Rugby Australia to sack Fol#u and, apparently, any of his mates who hold similar views. If Joyce is not applying the weights to Rugby Australia, let him clear the air and say so; but to the rugby follower, a dirty tail seems to be wagging a mongrel dog and the politically correct minority sharpen their knives.

    End of Part 1

  175. C.L.

    Joe Kennedy Senior made his money bootlegging, insider trading on Wall Street, and, during the Second World War he had a nice little sideline shipping black market grog across the Atlantic, to be sold in England.

    Cool.

  176. OldOzzie

    Fol#u stands alone as the rest fall into line with their pay masters

    Alan Jones

    Part 2

    Before proclaiming Folau’s guilt, one would have thought he was entitled to the deliberation of a tribunal. But RA have already said he won’t play for Australia; he won’t be picked for NSW; his contract will be ripped up. Folau is, sensibly, going to contest all this. But this is after the event.

    Rugby Australia have already called for punishment, banishment and termination because Folau warned “drunks, h#mosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters, hell awaits you, repent, only Jesus saves … Jesus Christ loves you and has given you time to turn away from your sin and come to him”. This is nothing more than what all Christians are called to do. It is part of the great commission Jesus gave to his disciples.

    Matthew 26:18-20: “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you’. ”

    We are talking about a young man who is a dedicated Christian expressing a legitimate view based on biblical teaching. Christians around the world are under siege. It appears now that sanctions of the most draconian kind are being imposed on Christians here who dare to proclaim their faith.

    Anglican Bishop Michael Stead, who heads the South Sydney diocese, said on Tuesday: “If a rugby player can be sacked for doing nothing more than posting on his social media page what is essentially a summary of the Bible, then it is a signal to the rest of us that we better keep our mouths shut.”

    Forcing people to keep their mouths shut because they might express a view contrary to ours has almost become the norm. It is interesting that Joyce is entitled to his view even though, apparently, Folau is not. But surely Joyce cannot appropriate his view to the whole Qantas family, many of whom disagree with him.

    And by what Christian teaching do we seek to destroy an individual and his career for articulating a summary from the Bible, which is thousands of years old? Folau, as I have said before, is from a devoutly religious Polynesian family and it is interesting that many who now criticise him have, in the past, demanded tolerance for their viewpoint.

    And that is fair enough. A diversity of viewpoints is healthy; but none of that tolerance is extended toward Folau. What is to happen to many of Folau’s fellow players who “liked” what he had to say? Are they to be banished? The drunks, the liars, the thieves, the fornicators and the atheists are not complaining.

    Have we reached the point articulated in the Keith Murdoch Oration in Melbourne on Tuesday night by the chief executive of News Corp, Robert Thomson, who declared that a mob mentality has taken hold across much of the west … with “illiberal liberals” on a “seemingly endless, insatiable quest” for indignation and umbrage.

    Thomson declared: “We are going through a strange phase in seeking affirmation through victimhood; and one example was the seething secularism that portrays any person of faith, whether an evanescent evangelical or occasional attendee at mass or synagogue or mosque or temple, as a nutter, a fruitcake, touched, a devotee of the deviant.”

    Is that, shamefully, the category in which we seek to cast Folau? Billy Vunipola, the England number 8, has voiced his support and he too has been muzzled. There are thousands of other Pacific Island players, all over the world, who hold strong religious beliefs and back Folau.

    Most of these players support families back in the islands and will remain silent for fear that if they speak up, they will lose their contracts and they will no longer be able to support their extended families. Be proud Cameron Clyne. What a legacy.

    It has been jarring for the average Australian rugby fan to turn on the news and see Rugby Australia chief executive Raelene Castle and NSW Rugby boss Andrew Hore, both Kiwis, talking rubbish and questioning the character of Folau. The difference is, Folau is authentic.

    In comparison, Hore and Castle are Kiwi rejects, seemingly able to trade off their nationality because our game is such a basket-case, our board members will listen to anyone wearing an All Blacks tracksuit.

    Who the hell hired these people to run NSW and Australian Rugby? Christianity was introduced into the Pacific Islands by missionaries. Most of these Islander people don’t have a lot of material things. But you only have to see their smiles to know they are rich of heart. They could teach our administrators a lot. Israel, keep your head high. There are millions of ordinary Australians in your corner. Not all of them share your beliefs but they recognise your right to express them and they understand you are coming from a place of love. For those of us who have looked at your complete comments, we understand you are genuinely concerned for your fellow man.

    These words are not yours. They have been part of the scriptures for 2000 years.

    As I have said this week, Folau has shown a rare degree of moral courage. I would want him in my team any day.

    Beyond his rugby skills, his example of moral courage is one that should inspire young people. This is not a battle that rugby administrators can win but they think they can. We know that rugby today is in a dark place.

  177. struth

    Trump has nothing to do with “Left” or “Right”.

    That’s why the socialist left hate him so much.
    He has absolutely no principle of any kind, let alone political.

    He has the principles one needs to be a success in these times against the growing power and insanity of the left.

    His leadership has everything to do with divide and conquer, using fear instead of hope, hate instead of love, and greed instead of generosity.

    Emotive fuckwittery, what are you, an old sixties hippy?
    Pure emotional bullshit.

    In other words, the Septics thoroughly deserve him.

    And they’re loving every minute of it.

  178. Colonel Crispin Berka

    More comedy gold from ClownWorld™.

    https://twitter.com/JaniceFiamengo/status/1118873385600212992

    My nephew, who identifies as a trans-German Sheppard, growls at my claim that I am a species-fluid trans-giraffe, and we have both filed with the BC Human Rights Tribunal. Since his claim is rooted in a sincere interpretation of Scripture, I’m confident it will be dismissed.

    Any similarity between ClownWorld and the real world is entirely non-coincidental.

  179. Boambee John

    From Richard Fernández/Belmont Club

    In an April 2019 letter, Pope Emeritus Benedict wrote an article describing how the church lost the ability to govern itself and found many of its formation centers turned into hatcheries for sexual abusers. It was a two-step process. First, the popes lost the culture war within the Church. “In the 20 years from 1960 to 1980, the previously normative standards regarding sexuality collapsed entirely.” Efforts to reverse the trend were dismissed as conservative claptrap.

    Pope John Paul II, who knew very well the situation of moral theology and followed it closely, commissioned … an encyclical that would set these things right again … Veritatis splendor on August 6, 1993, and it triggered vehement backlashes on the part of moral theologians …
    I shall never forget how then-leading German moral theologian Franz Böckle … announced in view of the possible decisions of the encyclical “Veritatis splendor” that if the encyclical should determine that there were actions which were always and under all circumstances to be classified as evil, he would challenge it with all the resources at his disposal …

    There were — not only in the United States of America — individual bishops who rejected the Catholic tradition as a whole and sought to bring about a kind of new, modern “Catholicity” … in not a few seminaries, students caught reading my [Benedict’s] books were considered unsuitable for the priesthood.

    Then the popes found that, having lost the culture wars, the victorious memes started flying their flags from the seminaries. Benedict recalls that “in various seminaries homosexual cliques were established,” which brought not just new sexual mores but a deliberate new form of transgressive behavior. To Benedict, it seemed as if his Church was under deliberate attack.

    RTWT

  180. Knuckle Dragger

    The careful observer will have noted that I don’t comment all that much on matters of US politics. This is because, although the subject interests me and I’m learning more about the subject (ta Cats) I feel I don’t know enough to comment on it with authority.

    Indeed, I feel if I pretend to do so I will publicly look like and idiot *cough Numbers cough*.

    However, the whole collusion nothingburger thing followed by the frantic searching for anything at all takes me back a bit.

    I have a very very close friend involved in law enforcement. Some years back he was working at Flemington in inner Melbourne, and one night by virtue of amazing detective work he found himself in a bluestone back alley which led to the back door of a mobile phone shop on Racecourse Road.

    Lo and behold, out the back door raced a young African gent with a backpack full of mobile phones. A melee ensued during which the young fellow fell over several times, and he was dragged back out the alley onto the street behind the main drag. A divisional van was then called.

    In the intervening 15 minutes, a Mrs Mangle type (at 3.00a.m.!) was peeking out her front window. Evidently she also had her window open, because she apparently saw a six foot one trenchcoat wearing copper with his foot on the throat of the African chap, smoking cigarettes and explaining why he and all his family should return to the Horn of Africa.

    Short version – van arrived, crook bundled off to station, crook made full admissions to being a POS, no complaints made and due to his record and incomparable investigative work got two years in the bin. Which he deserved.

    Vic at the time had something called the Office of Police Integrity, which received Mrs Mangle’s complaint enthusiastically. They tried like buggery to find something on my friend for three years, and even travelled to Tennant Creek to interview him. Stupidly, they also threatened to arrest him, but cognisant of relevant legislation my friend told them to fuck off and fuck off now, and no they couldn’t have any of his NT shirt collection.

    Anyway, after three years or so my friend got a letter from the OPI. It said that they couldn’t find evidence to charge me with anything. BUT they said, had my friend remained in Victoria they would have taken disciplinary action for being the senior man on scene and failing to adequately ensure the crook’s safety in the back of the van. By putting on his seat belt.

    Happily ever after and all that – but the comparison to events in the US is, I believe at any rate, striking.

  181. areff

    Maybe 2014 is too ancient and historical, maybe he wants something even more contemporaneous.

    Don’t put anything past the frogs, who plonked Pei’s hideous glass pyramid in the middle of the Louvre’s courtyard and thought it a good idea to embed a gear stick in the dashboard.

  182. feelthebern

    His leadership has everything to do with divide and conquer, using fear instead of hope, hate instead of love, and greed instead of generosity.

    numbers, you shouldn’t hit the bong on an empty stomach.

  183. Roger

    The science is in: Plastic bag bans pointless.

    The science is irrelevant.

    The plastic bag ban is a “contemporary environmental gesture”.

  184. struth

    Trump has nothing to do with “Left” or “Right”.

    That’s why the socialist left hate him so much.

    He has absolutely no principle of any kind, let alone political.

    He has the principles one needs to be a success in these times against the growing power and insanity of the left.

    His leadership has everything to do with divide and conquer, using fear instead of hope, hate instead of love, and greed instead of generosity.

    Emotive fuckwittery, what are you, an old sixties hippy?
    Pure emotional bullshit.

    In other words, the Septics thoroughly deserve him.

    And they’re loving every minute of it.

  185. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    cities that banned plastic bags saw a surge in the use of paper bags, which she estimates resulted in about 80 million pounds of extra paper trash per year.

    These are utterly useless for anything but a new dress or a pair of shoes.
    They collapse under any sort of weight. And I can’t think of any useful way to reuse them.

    Hairy asked me at the supermarket the other day to grab another of those green bags as we hadn’t brought enough in with us from the car. I looked and found they only had the ones coloured green.

    No way, I said to the crowd. I am NOT buying a green one. Any colour but green.
    Buying green is just giving in to them.
    A young couple in the queue looked disapproving.
    But by nods and smiles the rest of the queue agreed with my principled stand. 🙂

  186. Leigh Lowe

    Infidel Tiger

    #2992780, posted on April 20, 2019 at 10:08 am

    He believes that Sweden and Germany are doing better than USA because of having workers on the boards.

    By what measure are they doing better?

    Germany has better feacal examination toilets and Sweden makes better Vulvas.
    That is all.

  187. C.L.

    There is something completely unprecedented about this individual’s lack of basic morals.

    LOL.
    By common consent, the worst and most thieving criminal in the history of the presidency was Lyndon Johnson. As for sexual morals …

    Mimi Alford tells of her secret affair with JFK: Now 68, the former intern describes her tumultuous relationship with President John F Kennedy.

    The most lewd details of Alford’s book have made tabloid front pages across the world. JFK dared Alford to perform oral sex on Powers while the president watched, a dare she accepted. At a party at Bing Crosby’s Palm Springs house, he forced her to take amyl nitrate, a sex-enhancing drug. Months later, Kennedy asked her to perform oral sex on his younger brother, Ted (though this time she refused).

    Any mention of Teddy calls to mind the fact that he deliberately allowed a young woman to slowly drown in an Oldsmobile.

  188. 1. No indictments, babbling on about collusion.

    Ahem…
    Over the course of his nearly two-year-long probe, special counsel Robert Mueller and his team of prosecutors have now indicted 34 individuals and three Russian businesses on charges ranging from computer hacking to conspiracy and financial crimes.
    Those indictments have led to seven guilty pleas and four people sentenced to prison.
    They include, inter alia –
    Paul Manafort
    Rick Gates
    Konstantin Kilimnik
    Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn
    Roger Stone
    Michael Cohen
    Rick Gates
    George Papadopoulos
    Alex van der Zwaan
    Richard Pinedo
    Now, if you’re really really really clever, you might discover a common link between these people.
    But then, this is Catallaxy……

  189. feelthebern

    are their two Rick Gates?
    Or are you typing with tears in your eyes thinking about what your father did?

  190. Now, if you’re really really really clever, you might discover a common link between these people.
    But then, this is Catallaxy……

    If you’re really clever you can string together a probanda implicating Trump.

    But you can’t.

  191. OldOzzie

    An Actual Funny Article from Phillip Adams in The Australian

    That’s not the spirit, Qantas

    Phillip Adams
    Columnist
    The Weekend Australian Magazine

    Phillip Adams, on the tarmac of Scone Airport in the Hunter Valley, has been dumped from Qantas’ exclusive Chairman’s Lounge. Picture: Pete

    You see before you a broken man. Rejected, ejected, dejected. Dumped on the footpath for council collection. The matter has been referred to both the UNHCR and The Hague, and will be an issue in the federal election.

    After 40 years, dear readers, I have been expelled from that most inner of sanctums, the Qantas Chairman’s Lounge. Forget the Melbourne Club, that other “invitation only” outfit. Membership to the top-tier Qantas club outranked the citadel in Collins Street. See the pattern here? Expelled from the Scouts at 12, from the Communist Party at 17 and now from the Lounge at almost 80. What next? From the ABC? The afterlife?

    I was a member of the CL – as initiates call it – even before there was a CL. Both TAA and Ansett had little hidey-holes for MPs, captains of industry and sundry celebs. Nothing posh. Just places to escape public scrutiny and the paparazzi. I’d cracked it because I virtually lived in aircraft. Had they existed at the time I’d have cornered the currency in frequent flyer points, those bitcoins for Boeings.

    When the luxurious Lounges were unveiled, then chairman Jim Leslie made me privy to the secret handshakes borrowed from the Freemasons. It was Qantas’s way of saying, “Thank you Phillip”. I had, after all, proposed “the Spirit of Australia” as its verbal logo and persuaded Peter Allen to allow his song I Still Call Australia Home to become the Qantas national anthem. (Am I now being punished for that?)

    It was chummy in the Lounge, rubbing shoulders and noses with PMs past, present and potential. True dinks, I sometimes chatted with Cardinal Pell (is George still a member?). If I wasn’t talking with Bob, Gough, one or other of the Malcolms or George, I’d have a few coffees and read the papers. Resting up after my struggles getting through airport security. Which is not easy when you’re practically bionic, with a pacemaker and metallic hips.

    The charming Lounge staff would ensure I got my favourite seat on the aircraft, 1A, unless Mrs Howard pulled rank. If she did, they’d have to give it to her. But showing their sense of humour (and to her visible annoyance) they’d plonk me in 1B. I’d tell Janette to relax – that I was putting on my eyeshades and passing out. That night, on the wireless, I’d inform my listeners that I’d been sleeping with the PM’s wife.

    So many CL stories I could kiss and tell but won’t (on being admitted you have to sign the Official Secrets Act). And now I’m out on my arse. No idea why. I was given the bad news a few days after they expelled Fraser Anning, so it may have been a left-wing right-wing thing, to keep the books and Boeings balanced.

    There are other potential reasons, though. Too old? Then no need to expel me – let nature take its course. Too infrequent a flyer? Well, I haven’t flown much lately, thanks to ill-health and bad weather. As I type these words at our drought-afflicted farm a Qantas jet flies overhead on its way to Brisbane, its vapour trails seeming to say “f..k off”. Cruel, Alan, cruel.

    When I told the sad story of being drummed from the regiment on Twitter it provoked thousands of responses, an overwhelming surge of sympathy and talk of boycotts. Shorten will be calling a press conference shortly. But nothing can dull the pain. A long lifetime of loyalty rewarded with disloyalty. Is this the spirit of Australia? With a breaking, pacemaker’d heart… I can no longer call Qantas home. Sniffle.

  192. And they’re loving every minute of it.

    Total bullshit.
    His latest approval rating is 45%, about the same as Obama’s at this point in the presidency.
    In other words, more Septics disapprove of him than support him.

  193. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Partner of U.S.-Somali cop, who fatally shot an unarmed female yoga instructor when she approached their squad car in Minneapolis, AGREES with prosecutors that it was ‘premature’ for the officer to use deadly force

    From the “Daily Mail.”

  194. Boambee John

    calli
    #2992766, posted on April 20, 2019 at 10:01 am
    a “contemporary architectural gesture”.

    The fascist left are relentless, even at the least appropriate times.

    The initial designs for at least two of the post-9/11 memorials in the US, one at the site where Flight 93 crashed, and one in Arizona, included crescent moons. The grove of trees proposed for the Flight 93 site, one tree for each death, initially included trees for the hijackers.

  195. Wow Bob Bobby Bob.

    Such concern for an entire nation you hate and holiday in.

  196. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    His leadership has everything to do with divide and conquer, using fear instead of hope, hate instead of love, and greed instead of generosity.

    Erk. Barf. This reminds me of the Kool-Aid in The Lego Movie 2. See my review of it on last OT.

    Where men are weak neuters and the whip-cracking wymmins are lovin’ it. Where vicious invaders are in the end turned into gentle caring sharers by lots of loving hopey changey hugs.

    Aldous Huxley eat your heart out. Little boys under twelve were drinking it all in.
    No doubt as prep for the visit of the gender benders to their school.

  197. C.L.

    The most revered Democrats of modern times were John Kennedy, Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
    The first was a r-apist who pimped a teen intern to his staff; the second was a woman murderer.
    Bill Clinton ordered his intern to lick his anus (Starr Report).

    This tells you everything you need to know about the Democrats.

  198. Roger

    Here’s the “contemporary architectural gesture” the Germans added to the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial church in Berlin.

    Note the orange bell tower (partially obscured here), serving as an advertising hoarding promoting a sporting event, crowned with the European flag.

    The conceit of the moderns.

  199. Ellie

    Who needs an Australian subscription when we have OldOzzie. Thank you, OO. Appreciated.

  200. struth

    TDS,…………………………….The classic diversion and disposal of facts to hinder a narrative doesn’t work here SNIFFY McTurDS.

    No one was indicted for anything to do with Wussian collusion, and no one will be.

    However the Australian Labor party flew to the USA to help Hillary’s campaign.
    That’s not very good is it?
    Is that foreign interference?

    What about ol’ Fishnets Mc Adelaidehillspoof, not being investigated, or the whole Hillary email Huma, saga.
    The uranium one deal, etc etc.
    It’s going to be fun fun fun, ’til daddy take the “T” rump bird away.

    You’ve got all that to look forward to now.

    But there is another issue rarely mentioned here, and something you should have learned by now.
    Many people, unlike you, are capable of thinking for themselves and don’t rely on others to tell them what to think.
    Therefore swaying an election is not as easy as lefties who project their own failings onto others, may believe.

  201. This tells you everything you need to know about the Democrats.

    But absolutely nothing about Fatty 5D*.
    Classic deflection….
    Trump was deferred from service in Vietnam 5 times and has a weight problem.

  202. OldOzzie

    The Australian Editorial – Easter message of renewal and hope pertinent as ever

    Religious and political conflicts, often intertwined, were rife in Jerusalem, an outpost of the Roman Empire, at the time of Jesus’ Last Supper, crucifixion and resurrection. The compressed events of those few days, Melbourne’s Anglican Archbishop Philip Freier notes in his Easter message, provide rich themes for reflection. The resurrection, he said, suggested calamity was never the end of the story. Holy Week’s enduring mysteries — the Eucharist instituted at the Last Supper, Christ’s love in dying to atone for our sins and his forgiving the good thief on the cross, resurrection, redemption and hope — are no less compelling 20 centuries on. Despite myriad scientific advancements, human nature has not changed. As Uniting Church president Deidre Palmer says, in the face of events such as “the horrendous attack in Christchurch … Christ comes to us with a call to love our neighbours, to live in peace and work for a reconciled human community”.

    Among our abundant good fortunes as a nation, Australians by nature are tolerant and broad-minded, inclined to agree to disagree and live and let live with those whose opinions we disagree with or even abhor. Rugby Australia, unfortunately, has gone against our national character in sacking Wallabies star Israel Folau for his claim that “hell awaits drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators”. Folau has also dismissed Easter and Christmas as “man-made” and derided Catholic devotion to Mary, the mother of Jesus.

    Simplistic interpretations of scripture can be problematic, which does not, however, affect Folau’s ability to play brilliant football. In denying his right to free speech, RA has put political correctness ahead of fielding Australia’s best 15. More seriously, the decision has set a precedent that is likely to be divisive and harmful in future, well beyond sport. Liberal MP Tim Wilson took a mature, farsighted approach when he said a free, pluralistic democracy should have space for everybody to express their opinion and that “quoting the Bible or reciting a well-established position around morality and private morality” does not cross an unacceptable line.

    Not for the first time, Easter is being celebrated amid upheavals within the church and in the wider world. Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten have had the grace to put campaigning aside. Yesterday, on Good Friday, which was also the start of Passover in the Jewish faith, the Prime Minister attended the service at St Charbel’s Maronite Church in Sydney and the Opposition Leader lent a hand at the Salvation Army’s Lighthouse Cafe in Melbourne. Greens leader Richard Di Natale, by contrast, was busy spreading his carbon footprint in the “Stop Adani” convoy as it heads towards a frosty reception in Queensland’s Galilee Basin.

    In Paris, more than $1.6 billion has already been raised for rebuilding of Notre Dame Cathedral after its 850-year-old structure was badly burned and many of its treasures lost in Monday’s fire. The city’s main Easter services have been transferred to St Sulpice, the city’s second largest church, four metro stops away, which itself caught fire last month amid a spate of attacks on French and German churches this year. The Notre Dame fire, which is being treated as an accident, has left millions of people around the world, of all faiths and none, grieving. But the courage of rescuers, led by chaplain Jean-Marc Fournier, who was trained in the traditional Latin-rite mass and who served with French forces in Afghanistan, saved Jesus’ crown of thorns. In braving the flames, the crews provided consolation on a gruesome night.

    Amid darkness, it is natural that we “crave the light”, as Catholic Archbishop of Sydney Anthony Fisher said in his Easter message. Australians distressed by revelations of child sex abuse and cover-ups would agree. On the positive side, as Dr Fisher said, Australians encounter the light of Easter in parishes, church schools and universities, hospitals, aged-care homes, through the work of the St Vincent de Paul Society in helping the needy and in efforts to assist indigenous people, refugees, the homeless and victims of modern slavery: “All these are works of Easter, of raising people up out of their tomb and gloom,” he said. “All are professions of faith … professions of hope that ours can be a community of reverence and care.”

    In his Keith Murdoch Oration this week, News Corp chief executive Robert Thomson observed that “seething secularism’’ had created a situation in which any person of faith could be portrayed as a nutter, a fruitcake or even a “devotee of the deviant”. Archbishop Freier also said Australia had become increasingly secularised, which meant Christianity was known by fewer people.

    That diminishing knowledge, especially among the young, presents churches with a major challenge. But regardless of our individual beliefs, Easter, or Passover, or a jolly good long weekend, offer the chance of a fresh start, relaxation and good times with family and friends. Happy Easter from The Weekend Australian.

  203. Leigh Lowe

    Question … because it can’t be bothered Googling it … was their any collusion between Donald Trump and the Wussians?

  204. Infidel Tiger

    Gray Connolly
    @GrayConnolly
    Replying to
    @pwafork
    My grand theory of 2019 is that everyone knows nothing we have is or will be as beautiful or transcendent as what the ancients built. We are in a pagan era but without the Romans’ sense of gravitas and auctoritas. The worst of all worlds, really.
    6:28 AM · Apr 20, 2019 · Twitter Web Client

    Hard to disagree.

  205. OldOzzie

    The Australian Editorial – Easter message of renewal and hope pertinent as ever

    Religious and political conflicts, often intertwined, were rife in Jerusalem, an outpost of the Roman Empire, at the time of Jesus’ Last Supper, crucifixion and resurrection. The compressed events of those few days, Melbourne’s Anglican Archbishop Philip Freier notes in his Easter message, provide rich themes for reflection. The resurrection, he said, suggested calamity was never the end of the story. Holy Week’s enduring mysteries — the Eucharist instituted at the Last Supper, Christ’s love in dying to atone for our sins and his forgiving the good thief on the cross, resurrection, redemption and hope — are no less compelling 20 centuries on. Despite myriad scientific advancements, human nature has not changed. As Uniting Church president Deidre Palmer says, in the face of events such as “the horrendous attack in Chr#stchurch … Christ comes to us with a call to love our neighbours, to live in peace and work for a reconciled human community”.

    Among our abundant good fortunes as a nation, Australians by nature are tolerant and broad-minded, inclined to agree to disagree and live and let live with those whose opinions we disagree with or even abhor. Rugby Australia, unfortunately, has gone against our national character in sacking Wallabies star Isr#el Fol#u for his claim that “hell awaits drunks, hom#sexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators”. Fol#u has also dismissed Easter and Christmas as “man-made” and derided Catholic devotion to Mary, the mother of Jesus.

    Simplistic interpretations of scripture can be problematic, which does not, however, affect Fol#u’s ability to play brilliant football. In denying his right to free speech, RA has put political correctness ahead of fielding Australia’s best 15. More seriously, the decision has set a precedent that is likely to be divisive and harmful in future, well beyond sport. Liberal MP Tim Wilson took a mature, farsighted approach when he said a free, pluralistic democracy should have space for everybody to express their opinion and that “quoting the Bible or reciting a well-established position around morality and private morality” does not cross an unacceptable line.

    Not for the first time, Easter is being celebrated amid upheavals within the church and in the wider world. Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten have had the grace to put campaigning aside. Yesterday, on Good Friday, which was also the start of Passover in the J#wish faith, the Prime Minister attended the service at St Charbel’s Maronite Church in Sydney and the Opposition Leader lent a hand at the Salvation Army’s Lighthouse Cafe in Melbourne. Greens leader Richard Di Natale, by contrast, was busy spreading his carbon footprint in the “Stop Adani” convoy as it heads towards a frosty reception in Queensland’s Galilee Basin.

    In Paris, more than $1.6 billion has already been raised for rebuilding of Notre Dame Cathedral after its 850-year-old structure was badly burned and many of its treasures lost in Monday’s fire. The city’s main Easter services have been transferred to St Sulpice, the city’s second largest church, four metro stops away, which itself caught fire last month amid a spate of attacks on French and German churches this year. The Notre Dame fire, which is being treated as an accident, has left millions of people around the world, of all faiths and none, grieving. But the courage of rescuers, led by chaplain Jean-Marc Fournier, who was trained in the traditional Latin-rite mass and who served with French forces in Afghanistan, saved Jesus’ crown of thorns. In braving the flames, the crews provided consolation on a gruesome night.

    Amid darkness, it is natural that we “crave the light”, as Catholic Archbishop of Sydney Anthony Fisher said in his Easter message. Australians distressed by revelations of child sex abuse and cover-ups would agree. On the positive side, as Dr Fisher said, Australians encounter the light of Easter in parishes, church schools and universities, hospitals, aged-care homes, through the work of the St Vincent de Paul Society in helping the needy and in efforts to assist indigenous people, refugees, the homeless and victims of modern slavery: “All these are works of Easter, of raising people up out of their tomb and gloom,” he said. “All are professions of faith … professions of hope that ours can be a community of reverence and care.”

    In his Keith Murdoch Oration this week, News Corp chief executive Robert Thomson observed that “seething secularism’’ had created a situation in which any person of faith could be portrayed as a nutter, a fruitcake or even a “devotee of the deviant”. Archbishop Freier also said Australia had become increasingly secularised, which meant Christianity was known by fewer people.

    That diminishing knowledge, especially among the young, presents churches with a major challenge. But regardless of our individual beliefs, Easter, or Passover, or a jolly good long weekend, offer the chance of a fresh start, relaxation and good times with family and friends. Happy Easter from The Weekend Australian.

  206. Stimpson J. Cat

    And why would you die an appalling death for something you knew to be a lie?

    Why do people continue to perpetrate the ideas of Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny to their children knowing full well it is a lie?
    Is the few years of magical joy worth the lie?
    Have people died for Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny?

    Any untimely death is appalling.
    Maybe they didn’t know it was a lie.
    Maybe they genuinely believed.
    Maybe it was true.
    Maybe spreading the ideas were more important.

    In those days the Earth was Flat and people like me were possessed by demons.
    Emperors were Gods.

    It was a different time.

  207. areff

    Knuckle Dragger: a sad, sad tale of policing in Flemington, but consider yourself — er, your friend — lucky, as he wasn’t made to apologise to one of the Dark Continent’s dusky miscreants. Oh, and he didn’t have his testicles squeezed either.

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2018/01/african-crime-lions-unleashed-donkeys/

  208. feelthebern

    BREAKING NEWS:
    Harry Trigoboff (Meriton) wins the competition to rebuild Notre Dame.

  209. Caveman

    Thanks oldozzie , was hoping someone would cut paste AJ article.
    The only coach to ever take the Wallabies on a Grand Slam , hes got form like him or not.

  210. Rafiki redux

    Some disconnected thoughts on reading up thread.

    Can Leigh Lowe or Lizzie (or whoever) provide a cite to a work that traverses the literature on the non-biblical origins of Christian doctrine and practice?

    Grace Kelly (Collier) did not address 2 key issues? Was Izzy given a lawful direction? Did he in substance discriminate againt homosexuals? On the first, might a court hold that the relevant terms of his contract were void as contrary to public policy?

  211. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    True dinks, I sometimes chatted with Cardinal Pell (is George still a member?).

    Don’t know. I sat next to him in the Qantas First Class Lounge once.
    Dat’s Cardinal Pell, a whispering Hairy warned me.
    Please don’t try ta flirt wit’ him, Lizzie, he implored.
    As if, I said, retrieving my handbag with decorum from under his Cardinal’s seat.
    Hotline to God, so I knew the flight would be safe.
    Those were my days of simple belief in the goodness of the Cloth.
    An opinion, by the way, that I have not changed about the Cardinal.
    A good man, brought to disgrace to atone for others, a persecuted imprisoned martyr.
    I so hope he wins his appeal, and will still see justice not done if his appeal fails.

    The case brought against him is so flimsy and unevidenced.

  212. Infidel Tiger

    BREAKING NEWS:
    Harry Trigoboff (Meriton) wins the competition to rebuild Notre Dame.

    In a righteous world Triguboff would be in jail for urban terrorism.

  213. calli

    From the Jones column:

    Most of these players support families back in the islands and will remain silent for fear that if they speak up, they will lose their contracts and they will no longer be able to support their extended families. Be proud Cameron Clyne. What a legacy.

    I had never considered this aspect of The Great Muzzling of 2019.

    The black man and his family suffer so the white man can signal his virtue.

    Nice work, Rugby Australia progs. When do you break out the tar and feathers?

  214. Top Ender

    Picture the service station of the future.

    Ten electric charging outlets.

    Ten cars drive up, and plug in. The drivers saunter off to get a meal – it will be some hours of course.

    Then another ten cars drive up.

    Something wrong with this picture. Can’t figure it myself.

  215. #1 Relevant. Lisa Simpson stands in for Bob Bobby Bob.

    #2 Did C.L. guest write the “Too Hot for TV” Simpsons episodes? “Aw shoot Canada has got the bomb..”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkuDzSB4gN0

  216. Bruce of Newcastle

    Now, if you’re really really really clever, you might discover a common link between these people.

    They were all gotchaed by Mueller for process crimes of not recalling exact wording that he’d recorded by bugging them?

    Or is it that they were all financially ruined by Mueller for the temerity of failing to be guilty in the same way that Steven Hatfill so insulted Mueller by happening to be innocent?

    Beria could’ve learned some things by studying Mueller in action.

  217. Gab

    Sky writing happening over Melbourne now. A cross equals love, but written in symbols.

    Love it!

  218. struth

    Philip Adams?

    The fat bore isn’t dead yet?
    Friggin near killed me reading his self indulgent (typically) drivel up thread.

    See I usually read everything you post old Ozzie, but I’ll be a bit more careful from now on.

  219. Knuckle Dragger

    I encourage all Cats to go back to this morning’s Ben Garrison cartoon. A perfect encapsulation of the crayon eater.

    The combat projectionist angle, ‘Orange Man Baaad’ and whoever his companion is going ‘Jesus H Christ do we have go through the same shit day after day after goddamn day’.

    And the tears. Oh, the tears.

  220. feelthebern

    In a righteous world Triguboff would be in jail for urban terrorism.

    Triguboff has impacted the lives of more Australian than any other non-government Australian since Don Bradman.

  221. OldOzzie

    Rafiki redux
    #2992825, posted on April 20, 2019 at 10:40 am

    Some disconnected thoughts on reading up thread.

    Grace Kelly (Collier) did not address 2 key issues? Was Izzy given a lawful direction? Did he in substance discriminate againt homosexuals? On the first, might a court hold that the relevant terms of his contract were void as contrary to public policy?

    From Some Comments on Grace Collier’s Article

    – Ianx
    30 minutes ago
    (Edited)
    I disagree Grace. Looks like a a Shorten or Banker’s argument!

    – Andrew
    34 minutes ago
    I say Israel is the boss. There’s plenty of average try-hard bureaucrats out there but only one Israel Folau.

    – Andrew
    40 minutes ago
    (Edited)
    No Grace, he just used words and this is his crime? I assume you have read 1984? But maybe not. Might I kindly suggest you refer to Alan Jones’ article in this paper today and read what most subscribers seem to think is good journalism.

    – CRISP
    41 minutes ago
    Any employees who want to show solidarity with Folau can print out his post, sign their name clearly on the bottom, take it to their workplace and stick it up on the lunchroom notice board. Any business owners who believe Folau is on the side of right could put his post on their company website or send to all of their customers by email. Rest easy. No public figure, employed person or business owner will take any of the advice given above.
    No sensible person will want to wear the social, political, legal and financial consequences that will follow.


    Thank you for highlighting the extent to which censorship and the loss of freedoms once held so dear have been lost in this country. Anybody who deviates even slightly from the new orthodoxy and its dogma will be made to suffer in every way imaginable. You will become a non-person. YOU MUST CONFORM!
    And you support this new totalitarianism?

  222. Gab

    Actually, I should have said: The cross equals love.

  223. Boambee John

    1735099
    #2992815, posted on April 20, 2019 at 10:32 am
    This tells you everything you need to know about the Democrats.

    But absolutely nothing about Fatty 5D*.
    Classic deflection….
    Trump was deferred from service in Vietnam 5 times and has a weight problem.

    Twice already today, that psychological problem is getting worse.

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