Pell Discussion Forum: August 21, 2019

Update I: Appeal Rejected.

Update II: The actual judgement.

FERGUSON CJ, MAXWELL P

352 We would refuse leave to appeal in respect of grounds 2 and 3. We would grant leave to appeal in respect of ground 1 (the unreasonableness ground) but, for the reasons we have given, would dismiss the appeal.

WEINBERG JA:

1179 I would grant leave to appeal against conviction on Ground 1. I would order that the appeal be treated as having been heard instanter, and that it be allowed. I would set aside each of the convictions sustained below, and the sentences passed thereon. I would further order that there be entered judgment and verdicts of acquittal on each charge.

1180 I would refuse leave to appeal on both Grounds 2 and 3.

Update III: PvO has this tweet.

I do have some sympathy for PvO’s  position. We have a process for establishing “facts” and that process has established that George Pell is guilty of a crime. To be sure Pell can still appeal to the High Court – and I think he should. But here is the thing – we keep hearing that trust in social institutions is eroding. The legal system itself is such a social institution. We are being asked to believe a very big claim – that George Pell is a heinous criminal on evidence that strikes me (and I’m sure many others) as being somewhat implausible. True – as PvO points out – I wasn’t in the church in 1996 and so I don’t know what happened. Mind you none of the juries or judges was there either. If they had been there would be eye-witness accounts to the alleged crimes.  Anyway, not only are we being asked to believe a very big claim, we are asked to believe that claim after Pell was not tried in open court. Now to be sure, apologists will make their excuses – perhaps there are good reasons why that had to happen, blah, blah, blah.

To be clear, PvO’s position is the “responsible” position, the “appropriate” position, the  “bourgeois” position, the “moderate” position, and dare I say it, the “conservative” position.  Yet I do not consider myself to be unintellectual or pig-headedly ignorant.

Update IV: From the comments.

I probably don’t belong in this “centre right” blog, but I do believe in open and logical, fact based discussion, so please accept my somewhat dissenting comment in the constructive manner in which it is intended.

There are only 3 individuals that know what happened on that day in that church, and god depending on your beliefs.

One committed suicide and his evidence was not available to this trial.
One gave his evidence in the trial under the rules of our legal system.
One gave his evidence in the trial under the rules of our legal system.

Under the laws of Australia the judges enable both sides to present their evidence and arguments to the jury. The jury, made up of the peers of the accused, then decide which side they believe is presenting the truth.

That is the same arrangement that any of us would face in a similar situation.

C. Pell may be innocent, but the rules under which we agree to live by, find him guilty and that decision has been made by a majority? of the jury and the judges after listening and reviewing days and days of evidence.

Why is it that people on this blog believe that their opinion is more correct than those people of the jury and the judges, whom as a society we delegated the decision to.

What we as individuals desire or believe in our hearts or minds is utterly irrelevant.

If we believe that our emotional and unfounded beliefs are more valid than those of our legal system, then our society has some big problems.

No individual is above the law, even the Pope.

 

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863 Responses to Pell Discussion Forum: August 21, 2019

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  1. teamv

    Hopefully the appeal is successful but given the jurisdiction and the players involved, i fear the appeal will be rejected.

  2. woolfe

    I’m not confident. When you look at the circumstances and evidence presented in the “trial” it is very sad to think like this.

  3. mh

    Satanists will be praying for the appeal to be unsuccessful.

    So will Ray Hadley.

  4. struth

    I’d be bloody surprised, given how far Australia has slid down the anti Christian , socialist slide, that he has any hope at all.
    Facts aren’t feelz.

  5. Top Ender

    Magna Carta? What Magna Carta?

  6. I’d be surprised if there is a judge brave enough to challenge the ABC’s verdict.

  7. Big_Nambas

    As an atheist I have no interest in Pell but as a citizen I have an interest in justice. If this appeal fails justice will not be served.

  8. Geriatric Mayfly

    As Ita noted, her delicate charges at the ABC are sensitive snowflakes. It should be valium all ’round this morning, just in case all those years of loathing, smear and lies are challenged by facts.

  9. Tim Neilson

    He won’t be acquitted.
    The Court announced several days ago that the decision was to be handed down today.
    I can’t believe that if the Court was going to quash the conviction that they’d leave him in prison for any longer just o arrange a showpiece.

  10. Johno

    The fact is Pell is innocent.

    The fact is he was found guilty.

    What the fact will be today is something I cannot predict.

  11. Mother Lode

    With the possibility of an appeal being lodged with the Federal Court, and given the laughable conviction the concomitant apprehension that it would be successful, Victorian judges will best serve their own interests by setting the conviction aside on the basis of technicality or abstruse reasoning that would all the stain to remain – so all the usual suspects can carry on pretending the Cardinal is really guilty but escaped justice by some trickery.

    Properly Victorian justice has revealed itself to be a joke already in the case of Lawyer X.

    When I was a kid I wondered why all the police shows in Australia seemed to come out of Victoria, until I realised that it was not because the justice system there was so good, but because it was so bad – people there craved reassurance that there was justice to be had.

    Same likely goes for the preponderance of police shows from LA and NYC.

  12. Dr Fred Lenin

    the old lgal adage “justice must be done and must be seen be done “, hopfull there are still judges who still respect the law and are not agitprop apointees . Love to see the alpbc reaction if he wins .
    Wonder what the chances of sueing the abc haters individually would be ? Love to see them selling their housesto pa legal fees ,now that would be nice , SJW !with no money

  13. lotocoti

    I guess we’ll discover how independent the judiciary are in the People’s Republic.

  14. calli

    Oh great.

    Seven talking head opines that if Pell is sent back to prison he can “no longer prey on unsuspecting youngsters”.

    They want him dead. In or out of prison.

  15. Dr Fred Lenin

    Mother Lode , finding a way out that leaves the lawtrade smelling better while making the it look as though the law has been done could well be the reason it has taken so long to resolve ,the judges dont want visits from setkas goons if they offend the Hunchback of Spring street ,their puppet.
    Socialist “justice “in the making.

  16. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Properly Victorian justice has revealed itself to be a joke already in the case of Lawyer X.

    The words “Victorian” and “justice” are a contradiction in terms.

  17. pete m

    i was going to avoid this live circus and check outcome later, but decided my respect for Pell meant I needed to stand with him in some way

  18. stackja

    Will the stream break?

  19. pete m

    live broadcast suffering …

  20. pete m

    I think they just set up the delay telecast – 1 minute behind

  21. pete m

    they don’t look happy!

  22. Infidel Tiger

    What time is the hanging?

  23. cuckoo

    so all the usual suspects can carry on pretending the Cardinal is really guilty but escaped justice by some trickery.

    They will, regardless of what happens today.

  24. What time is the hanging?

    Depends on how long the stoning, drawing and quartering takes.

  25. Mother Lode

    The Court announced several days ago that the decision was to be handed down today.
    I can’t believe that if the Court was going to quash the conviction that they’d leave him in prison for any longer just o arrange a showpiece.

    Actually, I have no problem believing that at all. The judiciary wraps itself in, and looks admiringly in the mirror at, the pomp and circumstance of glorious law.

    They would not bat an eyelid at leaving someone rotting while they were getting their manicure done, their coiffure sculpted, their butt cheeks scraped by organic Icelandic pumice, the scrotums depilated, and the long ribbon of kelp that enters their mouth delicately drawn through and out their arses by sweetly cooing Tiebtan maidens – thus cleansing them of toxins, backed up beef bolus and months of jism that has furred their intestinal pipes.

    Getting rid of the old aristocracy did just meant that the next level below moved up to fill the privileged, self-serving, arrogant, pampered, entitled, soulless space they vacated.

    But without the style.

  26. pete m

    leave granted ground 1 only and appeal is dismissed

  27. Leigh Lowe

    so all the usual suspects can carry on pretending the Cardinal is really guilty but escaped justice by some trickery.

    They will, regardless of what happens today.

    If the conviction is overturned, words of the day will be “problematic” and “troubling”.
    Prepare for a newly discovered respect in the jury system, which we wanted thrown out for trials of Muesli terrorists, because racism.

  28. pete m

    raging – complete tossers

  29. pete m

    summary is a political summary – totally out of court’s remit

  30. pete m

    this will got to High Court no doubt

    still shocked

  31. stackja

    Lady talking about fiction. I won’t listen anymore.

  32. vlad

    The arraignment point has to go to the HCA now.

  33. this will got to High Court no doubt

    In the fullness of time.

    I’m sure they can schedule something in the next decade.

  34. vlad

    Weinberg J has to have been the minority.

  35. Infidel Tiger

    We knew this was coming.

    Appalling corruption.

  36. JC

    Weinberg dissented. He’s world expert on evidence theory.

  37. pete m

    guy on the right was the dissenter – not sure that is weinberg

  38. stackja

    Victoria hoping for an early demise?

  39. Infidel Tiger

    this will got to High Court no doubt

    still shocked

    No. Pell has already confirmed he will appeal no further.

    He’ll wait for God now.

  40. Chris M

    They want him dead. In or out of prison.

    Let’s hope he is not suicided… no Clinton connection but plenty of inside knowledge of Vatican corruption which is equally dangerous.

  41. pete m

    IT I had not heard that – maybe he’ll change mind.

  42. lotocoti

    Did I mis-hear, or did she say alleged offences.

  43. Tom

    Dickhead Dan’s kangaroo court — so carefully stacked with Liars maaates in the first decade of this century by Attorney-General Rob Hulls — has achieved the desired result. That is, justice is no longer available unless you’re a Labor maaate, especially not to the Liars’ mortal enemy, Christianity.

  44. Amadeus

    The legal system fails again. Justice has been denied to Pell. This must surely go to an appeal to the High Court.
    The socialist state of Victoria wins, Pell loses on evidence even my pet Doberman can smell is dodgy. What a travesty.

  45. Leigh Lowe

    No. Pell has already confirmed he will appeal no further.

    I think he said he would not appeal the sentence, as distinct from the conviction.
    To appeal the sentence would involve admission of guilt abd pleading to get sentence reduced.
    Of course, the decision not to appeal the sentence was spun as an admission of guilt.

  46. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Pell loses appeal

    The court of appeal has split their decision but George Pell’s appeal against his conviction has been rejected.

    Chief Justice Anne Ferguson and Justice Chris Maxwell granted leave to appeal on ground one of Pell’s application that the verdict was unreasonable but rejected the appeal.

    Justice Mark Weinberg dissented and would have granted the appeal.

    Pell was appealing his conviction on five charges of historical child sex abuse.

    The full judgment which will be made public later today is more than 300 pages.

    Cheering was heard from outside as the decision was read out.

  47. Anthony

    Pell said only that he will not appeal the sentence – not that he will not appeal his innocence.

  48. Geriatric Mayfly

    There you go, it was Maxwell and the Womyn who formed the majority. Maxwell has provenance. The womyn – enough said.

  49. Amadeus

    yes, loticoti, she did say “alleged offences”..

  50. Infidel Tiger

    Would be good if Walker and Richter now made public statements about this injustice.

    Australia is in a dark spiral. Gripped by worship of Moloch and all of liberalisms evil lustings.

  51. JC

    The Sheila’s haircut is a dead giveaway she’s a left wing loon.0

  52. Infidel Tiger

    Ok. Well then we can look forward to a High Court date around 2045.

  53. C.L.

    Wow.
    We were right in the first place. An acquittal would have destroyed the Victorian justice system.
    They were going to do everything possible to protect their mates.

  54. Seco

    Unbelievable but entirely predictable. Our system is rotten to the core.

  55. Geriatric Mayfly

    The Sheila’s haircut is a dead giveaway she’s a left wing loon.0

    Couldn’t be anything else to get to that position under Labor.

  56. JC

    Pell was out of his mind coming back here. He should never have left the Vatican as he was never going to receive a fair trial. Stupid thing to do.

  57. lotocoti

    Thanks Amadeus.
    That’s one hell of a misspeak.

  58. Minderbinder of QLD

    Do not forget in Victoriastan, the political police went advertising for “victims” when there were no complainants, and guess what, they found one. Even when the first trial ended in a majority jury for acquittal, the DPP instructed the plods how to improve their case. Also do not forget in this rogue state, a victim must be believed even in the absence of any corroborating evidence, and no reasonable doubt can exist in the victim’s statement. Another win for Victorian Labor, whatever it takes.

  59. struth

    Politicised police, politicised courts, media is left wing propaganda machine.
    A war against Christianity.
    How far down the socialist slide are we?

  60. stackja

    Jesus went to Jerusalem knowing his fate. Pell expected justice. He got none.

  61. C.L.

    … do not forget in this rogue state, a victims must be believed.

    Not quite correct.
    VicPol looked after Bill Shorten.

  62. Amadeus

    Justice Mark Weinberg dissented and would have granted the appeal.

    This would normally trigger an appeal to the High Court.

  63. Infidel Tiger

    Victoria is a very evil place.

    It even looks and feels evil these days.

  64. dover_beach

    Weinberg wants nothing to do with the two clowns. That appears clear.

  65. Bela Bartok

    make an example of the powerful so the weak will be cowed.

    Classic Leftist strategy employed in Victoriastan. ABC will be overjoyed. FMD

  66. Anthony

    What sort of High Court appeal bench can we expect?

  67. stackja

    C.L.
    #3136862, posted on August 21, 2019 at 9:55 am

    John Setka?

  68. Cynic of Ayr

    Mother Lode has an insightful opinion of upper level legal parasites, enthusiastically well shared by many, many people.
    As far as Pell goes, a simple re-enactment would prove or disprove the physical possibility of the offense, considering Pell’s attire at the time.
    Another interesting statement by the Chief Parasite, was that the complainant appeared to be truthful and not a liar. In this sentence she immediately says that Pell was untruthful and was a liar. Interestingly, she also said that the other boy (at the time, now dead, and via his mothers word) was also untruthful and a liar.)
    So, Pell and the dead boy: two against one.
    Court: One against two.
    I don’t know why they just didn’t take the word of the cretins at the ABC, as obviously, by their superior knowledge and judgment, they must have been there at the time!

  69. stackja

    Meanwhile:

    John Setka’s lawyer wife Emma Walters takes political job – The Age
    https://www.theage.com.au › National › Victoria › ALP
    20 hours ago – John Setka’s high profile lawyer wife Emma Walters has made a return to political life as an electorate officer for Victorian Minister and Labor powerbroker Adem Somyurek. … On Tuesday, Mr Somyurek confirmed he had hired Ms Walters to work as an electorate officer at his Parliament …

  70. Natural Instinct

    The majority judges gound that th he complainant knew what happened 22 years ago because it was unusual. But the opportunity witnesses could not remember exactly necause it was repeated ritual and not unusual.
    Have to mull that one over.
    Dissenting judge thought complainant embelished etc.

  71. Top Ender

    Be interesting to see how they dismiss the “three handed” Pell account; and how he managed to abuse two boys in six minutes in a room open to scores of others.

  72. Cassie of Sydney

    I think that it was Roger…or someone here at the Cat who made the recent comment that there is no doubt that one day the truth of Pell’s accuser will emerge….and the so called “victim” will be outed for what he truly is…it will take some brave intrepid journalist to do this……though I’m not sure that such a person exists however I live in hope.

    George Pell will probably be dead by then…the damage done…an innocent man wrongly convicted….his reputation ruined….but the truth will come out…and that truth is that a huge miscarriage of justice has been done to an innocent man.

    Personally I am rather devastated by this outcome…I am not a Catholic….I am not a Christian…but I recognise an injustice when I see one. I just cannot believe how depraved this country has become. It is clear to me that when the left take a dislike to a person…watch out…they will be relentless in how they go about destroying that person. We saw this in Warringah recently and we are seeing it with the frenzied attacks on Jones. Abbott….Pell….Jones….are not perfect human beings…there is no such thing….but they have fought and continue to fight the culture wars for the right and for this they have been and will continue to be attacked and destroyed by an empowered left.

    This country has become a very ugly place.

  73. dover_beach

    Be interesting to see how they dismiss the “three handed” Pell account

    According to the CJ, it was open to the jury to judge whether or not Pell had ‘three hands’.

  74. rickw

    What a vile and unjust country.

  75. Megan

    I’m not surprised. As someone else said upthread they would not have left it this long if they were going to throw it out. But how they can possibly ignore the fact that according to the evidence the cardinal Pell had to have four hands in order to do what was claimed, I have no idea. But I am neither a judge nor a lawyer.

    I am so sorry for George. He was committed to getting rid of the abusers in the church and this is his reward.

    I hope it goes to the High Court and the Victorian NoJustice For You system gets an absolute legal bollocking. But again…not hopeful.

  76. stackja

    Cassie of Sydney
    #3136880, posted on August 21, 2019 at 10:04 am
    ….his reputation ruined…

    To me his reputation is above reproach.
    I believe one day he will be vindicated.
    I believe he knows his Lord knows.
    Mere mortals are forgettable.

  77. BrettW

    Natural Instinct picked up point I noted. Witnesses that gave evidence on ritual and procedure could not necessarily be relied upon due to length of time since occurred. However if I recall correct even complainant initially could not remember exact date and gave a period of time.

    What is the saying “justice delayed is justice denied”.

    Still not guilty for me and Weinberg to be commended.

  78. C.L.

    This country has become a very ugly place.

    It is a country obsessed with sodomy and killing children.
    And that’s just the Liberal Party.

  79. Up The Workers!

    So, a 2:1 verdict against Pell.

    Just out of simple curiosity, does anybody know which Party appointed each of those 3 Judges?

    Were any of them related to, or connected with or appointed by, Rob Hulls?

    Will Kathy Sherriff now finally get her day in Court over her alleged non-consensual sex as a minor with a certain lecherous prominent former aspiring Leftard Prime Ministerial candidate, or is that case still too hot a political potato for genuine “Justice” to be done?

    “Justice” Labor(sic)-style, where innocent men are jailed for crimes they haven’t committed, while cowardly criminal Party grubs are rewarded for crimes against women that they are accused first-hand of committing, with taxpayer-funded Parliamentary seats, and mere under-aged rape victims are utterly ignored, blocked and prevented from having their day in Court if the alleged perpetrator is a senior Leftard priapic crook.

    “Unloseable Elections” can be lost that way.

  80. Still not guilty for me and Weinberg to be commended.

    Likewise.
    Well said BrettW.

  81. Peter Colquhoun

    This will go done in history as a parallel to the Lindy Chamberlain conviction. A lynching.

  82. Dr Faustus

    The majority judges gound that th he complainant knew what happened 22 years ago because it was unusual. But the opportunity witnesses could not remember exactly necause it was repeated ritual and not unusual.

    Still struggling to understand why Richter didn’t put Pell on the stand to declare his innocence.

    Sure the trial judge directed the jury that it could make no inference of guilt. But in the age of feelz, one “compellingly truthful” appearing witness clearly trumped an equally compelling circumstantial defence in the battle for reasonable doubt.

  83. Percy Popinjay

    Appeal dismissed!

    Entirely unexpected. Pell will probably die shortly (in prison) and the gloating will be audible in space.

    This is a disgraceful and monstrous miscarriage of justice.

    “Three hands” Pell today, who’s next?

  84. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    This will go done in history as a parallel to the Lindy Chamberlain conviction. A lynching.

    Quite an apt comparision.

  85. JC

    dover_beach
    #3136866, posted on August 21, 2019 at 9:58 am

    Weinberg wants nothing to do with the two clowns. That appears clear.

    He’s the real deal. He’s a world expert on the subject of evidence and taught at melb uni in the area. Of course he wouldn’t have a bar of those two lightweight labor clowns. Born in Brooklyn to Holocaust survivors who moved here – to get as far from Europe as possible.

    My ma worked for them when she first arrived and remained friends ever since… although age caused distance.

  86. vlad

    Maxwell and Ferguson have ruled Weinberg is irrational.

  87. JC

    Maxwell and Ferguson have ruled Weinberg is irrational.

    Not so. They have both shown themselves to be labor stooges and lightweights. The sheila has the typical inner city melbourne lezzo cut. As soon as I saw her I knew Pell was done.

  88. Natural Instinct

    Showing the animated video rejected because too persuasive at putting pell’s case which defence does not have licence to do.
    When video showed complainant and pell in sacrisy with lots of other people (represented by coloured dots) this did NOT accurately represent evidence as complainant did not say it was done in front of lots of people. Say what.

  89. Cassie of Sydney

    ““Three hands” Pell today, who’s next?”

    All of us who don’t and won’t toe the party line.

  90. max

    Doubts must remain about the way Richter failed to put Pell on the stand.
    And he didn’t bring in the video.

    What went on in the jury room ? Very suss. Who was in the jury ?

    The judgement drew attention to the credibility of the complainant. This is hugely subjective but cannot be challenged. The dissenting judgement questioned this very point. Said he wasn’t trustworthy.

  91. vlad

    Not so. They have both shown themselves to be labor stooges and lightweights.

    That’s my point, JC. Their judgment implies Weinberg must be irrational to have found the jury should have had a doubt.

  92. vlad

    And that’s preposterous.

  93. pete m

    Dr Faustus
    #3136892, posted on August 21, 2019 at 10:18 am

    The majority judges gound that th he complainant knew what happened 22 years ago because it was unusual. But the opportunity witnesses could not remember exactly necause it was repeated ritual and not unusual.

    Still struggling to understand why Richter didn’t put Pell on the stand to declare his innocence.
    Sure the trial judge directed the jury that it could make no inference of guilt. But in the age of feelz, one “compellingly truthful” appearing witness clearly trumped an equally compelling circumstantial defence in the battle for reasonable doubt.

    Have to agree – Richter QC always says don’t give evidence but the jury had 1 guy swearing on oath he did it, and it had to be faced by Pell swearing on oath he didn’t. Sorry hindsight but I said this during the trial – he had to give evidence to save himself. Don’t care if he comes across gruff – the jury needed to hear it from him. Shouldn’t have to, but as noted, in this day of feelz, need to now.

    Hope he does appeal – High Court has greater balance of judges who know their craft like Weinberg.

  94. Up The Workers!

    I wonder what Bung Journo’s verdict on the whole matter will be.

    Didn’t he share a bedroom with Ridsdale?

  95. JC

    What went on in the jury room ? Very suss. Who was in the jury ?

    It was a runaway jury and the first judge should have told them to fuck off out of his court. I would have and possibly have them arrested for pretending to be impartial.

    Artie is right. Melbourne is evil. There are lots of fucked up people around.

    Pell should never have come back

  96. Roger

    This will go done in history as a parallel to the Lindy Chamberlain conviction. A lynching.

    It’s much worse than that. The Chamberlain conviction rested on incompetence.

    This is conspiratorial. The best parallel is the Dreyfus Affair.

    About Maxwell & Ferguson, the less said the better, being mindful that the blog owner resides in Victoria.

    On to the High Court.

  97. stackja

    Meanwhile:

    Hong Kong: British consulate worker ‘detained at China border

    His girlfriend told news site HK01 he had planned to travel home by train the same day, but did not return.

    She shared screenshots of online messages from Mr Cheng, in which he wrote he was passing through the border, before adding “pray for me”.

    The Scottish government said it was concerned for Mr Cheng’s welfare and was liaising with the Foreign Office.

    In Victoria, prayers needed too,

  98. Econocrat

    Waiting for Julian Burnside’s pedo tweet.

  99. JC

    On to the High Court.

    Roger, it’s a million bucks to show up at the High Court to just get a foot in the door. I’m not sure the Card has the money for that.

  100. Cassie of Sydney

    “This will go done in history as a parallel to the Lindy Chamberlain conviction. A lynching.

    It’s much worse than that. The Chamberlain conviction rested on incompetence.

    This is conspiratorial. The best parallel is the Dreyfus Affair.”

    Well said Roger.

  101. Cassie of Sydney

    “notafan
    #3136910, posted on August 21, 2019 at 10:28 am
    oh no

    heartbroken”

    Me too Nota…..I am fighting off tears.

  102. JC

    As I said, Pell should never have come back. Coming back is the same thing as expecting someone to go back to the Eastern bloc during the period of the Soviet Union’s existence. No one in their right mind would have done that or expected to.

  103. Up The Workers!

    I wonder if anybody ever thought to pull out the measuring tape and measure the length of Pell’s church organ?

    It must be a truly phenomenal implement if it is capable of stretching the full length of the Cathedral aisle, from the front steps where he was farewelling parishioners, as several testified,. to the open sacristy off the altar, at the opposite end of the massive Cathedral, where the anonymous “Jizzy Smellitt” alleges that the deed very improbably took place.

  104. Ivan Denisovich

    They have both shown themselves to be labor stooges and lightweights.

    Unsurprising.

    HULLSTOPIA: Comrades galore on the Victorian Supreme Court

    Long-time Labor Party member and inner-city feminist writer Dr Karin Emerton has been appointed by Victorian Attorney-General Rob Hulls to the Supreme Court of Victoria.

    She joins other Labor figures like Court of Appeal President Chris Maxwell in senior positions in Victorian courts. All judges are expected to resign their party membership upon appointment to judicial office.

    SWEET GIG
    There are compensations for this loss of party membership, Supreme Court judges get a full-time driver, car, business class travel, and a base salary of $333,000 per annum [pdf].

    On top of of the base salary judges receive around $180,000 per annum after retirement, in a defined benefit super scheme of the kind abolished for politicians thanks to Mark Latham. At the time he pledged to scrap defined benefit schemes, Latham said they were seven times as generous as those enjoyed by other members of the community. Supreme Court judges in other states have previously banded together to combat Commonwealth efforts to place taxes on their superannuation.

    Earlier this year, Supreme Court judges were discovered to have been overpaid by many thousands of dollars. Word is that some have been rather tardy in repaying the extra.

    EMERTON QUICK OFF THE MARK
    It’s a rapid rise for the Labor lawyer, as she was appointed a Senior Counsel in November 2007.

    Emerton is believed to have written an unpublished 1987 paper “Figures of the Feminine”, much praised in feminist literature such “Volatile bodies: towards corporeal feminism.”

    Aside from a stellar legal career, Dr Emerton is no academic slouch either, and was awarded her doctorate of philosophy for “The Feminine in Philosophy” in 1987.

    Her work has also been quoted favourably in the publication “Feminist Criminology.”

    Emerton is not only a long-standing party member, she is clearly well-connected throughout the ALP. Our predecessor publication reported that she represented the national secretariat of the ALP in court when it was administered by Tim Gartrell. It is understood she was in the Fitzroy branch of the ALP for a time, an area normally identified as a bastion of the inner-urban Socialist Left.

    Aside from her extensive Labor connections, Dr Emerton will be able to fit right in to the court straight away, having worked closely together with Court of Appeal boss Chris Maxwell when providing pro bono legal assistance to the Womens Electoral Lobby back in the day.

    https://vexnews.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/

  105. Infidel Tiger

    Roger, it’s a million bucks to show up at the High Court to just get a foot in the door. I’m not sure the Card has the money for that.

    The ACL has a swag of cash it is holding in trust for some multi-millionaire blockhead.

    I know what is a more worthy cause.

  106. Dr Faustus

    As I said, Pell should never have come back.

    Vatican politics would have had Pope Frank’s boot firmly on Pell’s backside.

  107. Lysander

    Just got up… fuck off!!!???? Whaaaaat!!!?

  108. stackja

    Infidel Tiger
    #3136922, posted on August 21, 2019 at 10:37 am

    There was a legal fund for Pell.

  109. John Comnenus

    This decision is a disgrace. The fact that Weinberg dissented is demonstrable reasonable doubt. Unfortunately the legal system is now a PC enforcement authority. Just remember every person sent to the Gulag was sent by a judge. The court is now in contempt of a large swag of the people.

  110. Mater

    Vatican politics would have had Pope Frank’s boot firmly on Pell’s backside.

    Have a 1 minute listen to the YouTube video Steve Tickler posted the other day about climate change. Pell gets a mention, as does this court case. Interesting. Go straight to 49:46.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bpxAIYrtGLw

  111. Viva

    Some years ago a radio commenter was asked what she thought of Diana’s notorious interview with Martin Bashir.

    “A great performance by a great actress!” she responded.

    Diana has undoubtedly been outperformed by the so-called “compelling witness” in this case.

  112. Monstrous rock spider stays in gaol. Good.

  113. John Comnenus

    Monty
    You are a disgrace. You support destroying anyone’s life and reputation to get political power and intimidate any dissenter. You support the railroading of people with a different political view to your own. You are a fascist.

  114. Anthony

    Would like to hear something from the Pell team. It still should not take long to clear George – an expedited hearing in the High Court, a poll of the members, release him immediately and write the reasons later.

  115. Geriatric Mayfly

    It is understood she was in the Fitzroy branch of the ALP for a time, an area normally identified as a bastion of the inner-urban Socialist Left.

    The Lesbian latte strip, and the sun drenched Fitzroy Baths always on hand.

  116. Supporting a convicted rock spider doesn’t give you any moral authority to criticise, Johnny.

  117. stuth

    As I said, Pell should never have come back. Coming back is the same thing as expecting someone to go back to the Eastern bloc during the period of the Soviet Union’s existence. No one in their right mind would have done that or expected to.

    Exactly.
    He must have understood from his political stance, just how far down the gurgler Australia was.
    Ask any layman about the corruption and lack of Justice in this country.

    But sometimes Christianity puts itself into the lions den, willingly, as it has done throughout history.

    His story will now well live past him, this he knows, and a better man through his actions in coming back, may we be yet to find.
    In a way he has Martyred himself so we may see the disgusting criminality of our elites, and his belief in god means, in his eyes, he is not losing.
    He is fighting the good fight.
    History remembers and loves Jesus.
    Pontius Pilate ……………….not so much.
    Not so much at all.

  118. notafan

    A conviction doesn’t made it true Monty.

    you on the left campaigning to free convictions child killers should know that.

  119. Amadeus

    Pell is crucified for the sins of others. The dissenting Judge is the only one with any integrity on that bench. He also seems to understand the rules of evidence which the other two judges appear to have simply ignored.
    It would appear that “feelings” is now the basis of certain judicial rulings in Victoriastan. When a Judge says he/she feels the evidence from the only witness to be true (i.e. bugger real evidence) Pell was in trouble with the two clowns on the bench.
    Remember the Victoriastan slogan generated down there – “change the rules” – by God, they have well and truly changed the legal rules to suit the socialist agenda.
    This was never going to end well for Pell in Victoriastan.

  120. Viva

    Monstrous rock spider stays in gaol. Good.

    “… whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

  121. Old Lefty

    Indeed. We plebs are now owed an explanation of who is and is not legally three-handed in Victoria and how they come to be sodidoccur, which is very different. It’s possible, after all, that my house will be hit by a meteor strike this week.

    High Court without delay?.

    And did anyone notice how Ferguson and Maxwell have now shifted the burden of proof? She said that the prosecution had proven beyond reasonable doubt hat it was possible for the so-called offences to occur. I thought they had to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the offences

  122. stackja

    Does the usual suspect still believe Lindy killed Azaria?

  123. Lilliana

    JC
    #3136918, posted on August 21, 2019 at 10:34 am
    As I said, Pell should never have come back. Coming back is the same thing as expecting someone to go back to the Eastern bloc during the period of the Soviet Union’s existence. No one in their right mind would have done that or expected to.

    That may be true but Pell is a man of faith and he believed that justice would prevail. I hope he finds the strength to go to the High Court.

    I am ashamed to be an Australian today. It is a dark day for all of us.

  124. Infidel Tiger

    Monstrous rock spider stays in gaol. Good.

    How did you get internet access?

  125. Old Lefty

    Sorry – that got mangled. It should read at the end ‘i thought the prosecution had to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the offences did occur, not could have occurred.

  126. max

    1 Timothy 3 New International Reader’s Version (NIRV)

    Rules for Choosing Leaders and Deacons
    3 Here is a saying you can trust. If anyone wants to be a leader in the church, they want to do a good work for God and people. 2 A leader must be free from blame. He must be faithful to his wife. In anything he does, he must not go too far. He must control himself. He must be worthy of respect. He must welcome people into his home. He must be able to teach. 3 He must not get drunk. He must not push people around. He must be gentle. He must not be a person who likes to argue. He must not love money. 4 He must manage his own family well. He must make sure that his children obey him. And he must do this in a way that gains him respect. 5 Suppose someone doesn’t know how to manage his own family. Then how can he take care of God’s church? 6 The leader must not be a new believer. If he is, he might become proud. Then he would be judged just like the devil. 7 The leader must also be respected by those who are outside the church. Then he will not be put to shame. He will not fall into the devil’s trap.

    8 In the same way, deacons must be worthy of respect. They must be honest and true. They must not drink too much wine. They must not try to get money by cheating people. 9 They must hold on to the deep truths of the faith. Even their own minds tell them to do that. 10 First they must be tested. Then let them serve as deacons if there is nothing against them.

    11 In the same way, the women must be worthy of respect. They must not say things that harm others. In anything they do, they must not go too far. They must be worthy of trust in everything.

    12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife. He must manage his children and family well. 13 Those who have served well earn the full respect of others. They also become more sure of their faith in Christ Jesus.

  127. Amadeus

    Yes, indeed, Old Lefty.

  128. Cassie of Sydney

    “I am ashamed to be an Australian today. It is a dark day for all of us.”

    Yes.

  129. Roger

    Pell came back because he’s a man of integrity and he wanted to defend himself against the charges.

    Not to do so would have been cowardly.

  130. Dr Faustus

    Pell gets a mention, as does this court case. Interesting.

    My point exactly.

  131. dover_beach

    To me his reputation is above reproach.

    It ascends the longer he remains in jail.

  132. A conviction doesn’t made it true Monty.

    He is a convicted rock spider, an horrific monster and stands for everything that right-thinking people should reject. Anyone who continues to support him is on the side of evil.

  133. vr

    Adrian Vermeule
    @Vermeullarmine

    I hope we will not resign ourselves too soon to this cartoon of justice. Cardinal Pell must suffer, with the support of God whose judgment alone finally matters, but let it become a second Dreyfus affair, to shame the Australian prosecutors and judges as well.
    5:36 pm – 20 Aug 2019

  134. Infidel Tiger

    Adrian Vermeule
    ‏ @Vermeullarmine

    One of the best people on Twitter.

  135. notafan

    What are you suggesting Max?

    That Catholic Priests should be forced to marry

    or that celibacy causes homsexual p filia?

  136. Cactus

    Incredibly saddened by the Pell result. Justice is demonstrably broken in this country. Chilling.

    The only thing I can now do is bury myself in work today. I will not be perusing news websites, or watching TV tonight as it will be a bunch of gleeful evil people all basking in the result. Might end up being a productive day.

  137. Gab

    Hearsay of one person, Uncorroborated, is now considered as evidence according to The judiciary.

  138. stevem

    She said that the prosecution had proven beyond reasonable doubt that it was possible for the so-called offences to occur

    Not true, Old Lefty.
    The burden of proof for the jury making their verdict was “beyond reasonable doubt”. For the appeal the judges needed to be convinced that no juror could possibly believe Pell guilty. The appeal then hinged on whether the prosecution had proven beyond reasonable doubt that it was possible for the so-called offences to occur.

  139. notafan

    Everyone that has ever been convicted is guilty according to monty

    Project Innocence should shut down immediately

    you are a horrible nasty abortion loving little man

    go away

  140. Infidel Tiger

    Fr. Thomas Petri, OP, STD

    @PetriOP
    1h1 hour ago
    More
    Replying to @ccpecknold
    Nobody who knows how liturgy works (especially with a bishop) or how vestments are worn could sustain this conviction. This a judgment by two judges who have no clue about the ritual of the Mass and they’re arguing only in the abstract.

  141. stuth

    He is a convicted without proof rock spider, and anyone who agrees in this travesty of justice stands for everything that right-thinking people should reject. Anyone who continues to support no justice is on the side of evil.

  142. dover_beach

    The complainant’s allegation had the ‘ring of truth’. That is the burden of proof now, apparently.

  143. Mater

    My point exactly.

    Yep. I doubt the Pope is losing any sleep, and I question whether he’d fess up the funds to take it to the High Court.

  144. stuth

    Monty believes that the millions sent to the gulags all deserved it, as they were declared traitors without proof, or a fair trial.
    The first came for the Joooos………………………

    Monty’s church is parliament house, Government his unquestioning religion.

  145. notafan

    Yep. I doubt the Pope is losing any sleep, and I question whether he’d fess up the funds to take it to the High Court.

    The Catholic Church has taken no steps to defrock Cardinal Pell

    Cardinal Pell’s trial and appeal were privately funded, as will be any appeal to the High Court

    you have absolutely no clue as to how Pope Francis feels about his brother in Christ.

  146. Viva

    The bigger picture is that the west is in rapid decline and we in Australia are part of that process.
    Feelings and politicised bias supersede rationality and this extends to the police and now the courts.
    The decline of civilisations is a natural process as it is in the cycle of all life.

    Thankfully there is also regeneration. Just not yet and not here.

  147. herodotus

    After seeing how quickly Folau raised funds I’d say getting the donations rolling for Pell should be no problem. Should be managed by anyone but Go F… Me.
    Plus: is it only lefty lawyers who do pro bono?

  148. C.L.

    She joins other Labor figures like Court of Appeal President Chris Maxwell in senior positions in Victorian courts. All judges are expected to resign their party membership upon appointment to judicial office.

    Really? Yeah, I’m sure he was totes impartial.

    The sheila has the typical inner city melbourne lezzo cut. As soon as I saw her I knew Pell was done.

    Yep.

  149. dover_beach

    Take Christ’s words seriously. He said you will be hated.

  150. Mater

    you have absolutely no clue as to how Pope Francis feels about his brother in Christ.

    I would love to live in your world, Nota. It would be very comforting.
    Unfortunately, I don’t. I’ve seen things that would turn your thinking upside down.
    Did you even watch the video I linked to?

  151. Leigh Lowe

    I wouldn’t assume that the High Court would be in lock-step with the Victorianistan regime.
    The HC gave VikPol the mother of all legal hidings in their judgement in the Gobbo case.
    Barely stopped short of calling them liars, which is unheard of in HC judgements.

  152. mh

    m0nty
    #3136959, posted on August 21, 2019 at 11:07 am
    A conviction doesn’t made it true Monty.

    He is a convicted rock spider, an horrific monster and stands for everything that right-thinking people should reject. Anyone who continues to support him is on the side of evil.

    Paul Montgomery describes himself as a “troll”.

    Ignore the fat twat.

  153. notafan

    from the Catholic Weekly

    Following the Cardinal’s recent court appearance there has been further widespread support for the Cardinal from people wanting details of the fund to which they can contribute.

    These details are:

    Ferdinand Zito and Associates Law Practice Trust Account

    Bendigo Bank

    BSB: 633-000

    Acct No: 1359-51192

    Ref Code: LFGP

    if you would like to request acknowledgment of the receipt of funds please email [email protected]

    Cardinal Pell’s legal team will accept public donations

  154. C.L.

    Poor old Carl Beech. He should have come out to Victoria to ply his trade. He’d be co-hosting The Project by now and have a senate seat. “Australian of the Year” would certainly be possible.

  155. notafan

    You didn’t link to a video Mater

    and you didn’t even know how Cardinal Pell’s defence was being funded

  156. Notafan: that is dated from the beginning of May.
    Presumably the law practice’s trust account is still active.
    I’d imagine the tag “LFGP” will be found beside quite a number of small deposits over the next several days.

  157. Anthony

    ‘Disgraced, and in the right place’
    In the courtroom as George Pell learned his appeal had failed, the father of his dead victim sobbed with relief.

    By MARK SCHLIEBS

    from The Australian

    I didn’t know Pell was responsible for the ‘dead victim’. As far as the ‘dead victim’ was concerned he had never been sexually assaulted by Pell.

  158. notafan

    “After the guilty verdict in the first instance concerning Cardinal Pell, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will now handle the case following the procedure and within the time established by canonical norm,” Alessandro Gisotti, interim director of the Vatican press office, said on 27 February

    Vatican announces canonical investigation of Cardinal Pell

  159. Iampeter

    Yea unless everyone is missing something it seems you can now put someone in jail by merely accusing them.
    Corroboration and evidence not required.

    But it is rich listening to defenders of one of the most corrupt and evil organizations in the world cry about corruption.

    Please, if you can support the ongoing existence of an organization that is alleged to have engaged in abuse of children the world over, on a scale that rivals actual sex trafficking organisations, then helped most of the perpetrators to escape justice by covering it up so successfully and for so long that the statute of limitation lapsed, you can’t really whine about this.

  160. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Ignore the fat twat.

    I use the term “Facist hyena.”

  161. Rafiki redux

    Dr Faustus at 10.18. It is probably not just ‘a matter of feelz’ (whatever that is) that may have led the jury to infer guilt (in combination with other evidence) from Pell’s failure to give evidence. It is natural and reasonable for a jury to reason that Pell’s failure made it safer to accept the complainant’s evidence. This approach is accepted in civil cases. Given that the judge probably told the jury they were the fact-finders, they may have ignored what the judge said (if they understood it) and applied common sense (as they may also have been told to do).

  162. notafan

    I knew that SATP
    I was making it clear that Cardinal Pell had refused to allow the Catholic Church to fund his defense and it has been funded throughout by generous benefactors, large and small.

  163. Obtaining legal opinion from journalists is not my ideal. However I know little of the machinations of Victoria’s court system (& this morning underlines that)
    Tessa Ackerman (in The Australian)

    In accordance with the Judiciary Act 1903, the High Court may look at any matters it considers relevant but have regard to whether the proceedings involve a question of law that is of public importance or needs to resolve differences of opinion as to the state of law.

    The High Court also has regard to whether the interests of the administration of justice, either generally or in the particular case, require consideration by the court.

    I’d say the GP case fits that. Very few (especially those who are pleased with the verdict) feel the case has been proved beyond reasonable doubt.

  164. notafan

    iampeter now claiming that the entire Catholic Church is a child sex cabal

    who will sink lower?

  165. notafan

    A climate change conspiracy?

    is that your evidence?

    give it a rest

  166. Mater

    and you didn’t even know how Cardinal Pell’s defence was being funded

    No. I made a comment about potential funding of a high court appeal, and any potential Vatican involvement. I made no claim about how this appeal was being funded.

  167. Seco

    Pell was past middle aged when he first decided to go all out on an unprovoked, unplanned attack where he could have been found in the act at any point in time.

    The story is a fabrication plain and simple. We do not live in a just world, this is more evidence of that.

    God bless you Cardinal Pell.

  168. Lee

    The complainant’s allegation had the ‘ring of truth’. That is the burden of proof now, apparently.

    Despite any and all other evidence to the contrary.

  169. Mater

    A climate change conspiracy?
    is that your evidence?
    give it a rest

    No. It was a comment about the viability of him holding up in the Vatican and not returning to Australia.

  170. Gab

    Little do they know what the good Cardinal’s suffering is going to do for the Church.

  171. faceache

    He will be able to do a lot of good over the next few years. There are reasons that we mere mortals cannot discern. “Such is life” said another Victorian. Jesus loves you George.

  172. Seco

    And wasn’t this supposed to have happened AFTER the Melbourne Response was initiated by Pell?

  173. notafan

    The ignorance was implied by both your unfounded comments about Pope Francis and your assumption that the Vatican would be involved in funding any high court appeal.

    Let us see what the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith investigation finds.

  174. Ok that’s it.
    It’s time to round up all catholics and place them in internment camps.
    The Pizza Supreme Court has made it clear that it is unsafe to have catholics roaming in the wild.

  175. notafan

    And wasn’t this supposed to have happened AFTER the Melbourne Response was initiated by Pell?

    Yes, and in an attack that defies all the literature on child sex offenders.

  176. max

    notafan
    #3136962, posted on August 21, 2019 at 11:10 am
    What are you suggesting Max?

    That Catholic Priests should be forced to marry

    or that celibacy causes homsexual p filia?

    Bible say clearly how to chose a leader in state and in church.
    God will not be mocked.

    also if you give unbeliever to have right to vote and judge — than suffering consequences are coming

  177. Geriatric Mayfly

    I imagine the High Court takes a rather condescending view of shopping strip lawyers who rise above their station.

  178. Mater

    The ignorance was implied by both your unfounded comments about Pope Francis and your assumption that the Vatican would be involved in funding any high court appeal.

    Ok, Nota. You win.

  179. Cassie of Sydney

    “It’s time to round up all catholics and place them in internment camps.”

    Methinks that scenario is not far off…first they came for the Catholics…and I said and did nothing.

  180. Methinks that scenario is not far off

    Quite obviously, it has already started.

  181. Blair

    “He is a convicted rock spider, an horrific monster and stands for everything that right-thinking people should reject. Anyone who continues to support him is on the side of evil.”
    Rather harsh words about the dissenting judge.

  182. notafan

    Bible say clearly how to chose a leader in state and in church.
    God will not be mocked.

    Well thank you for that insight Max.

    Only helpful in understanding that you appear to have outed yourself as an anti-Catholic bigot who has reinterpreted the bible to suit your own prejudices.

    Good luck with that.

  183. Lysander

    Lock up yer priests! 🙁

  184. Mother Lode

    Monty reminds me of the character in 1984, Tom Parsons.

    An ardent believer and, as he himself would see it, an accomplice in Big Brother’s plan.

    He chortles as he recounts how many words – and the ability to communicate ideas – just that day had been consigned to oblivion as he compiles and edits the Newspeak dictionary.

    He is married to a defeated and obedient wife and raises the perfect children, members of the Junior Spies – suspicious, flint-hearted, and eager to prove their loyalty by reporting the slightest infraction.

    Inevitably his own daughter denounces him, reporting him for something (she claims) he said in his sleep.

    Confused and terrified, unable to make sense of how such a loyal citizen as himself could have done what he was accused of, he still congratulates his daughter on her vigilance before being carted off, eyes wide bloodshot and watery, to the Ministry of Love.

    Which would be the last anyone would ever see or hear of him.

    I believe the book also describes him a somehow fat despite the unceasing shortages, and sweating profusely.

    I can imagine our Monty clapping his hands with enthusiasm when the voice on the telescreen announces that, due to higher than forecast productivity in the hole factories, the hole in donuts will be increased in size by 20%.

    And after being denounced by some neighbourhood kid writing ‘I love Goldstein’ on a piece of paper and then eating it, being hauled off – protesting to the last his love of Big Brother.

  185. Ivan Denisovich

    Bromberg who presided in the Bolt trial ran for Labor pre-selection. Former Labor Party member Chris Maxwell was one of the presiding judges in the Pell appeal. Meanwhile, Bill Shorten and Julia Gillard are laughing, nothing to see there. All that remains is for Gillard to be appointed to the Vic Supreme Court where she can preside and rule on trumped up charges against Tony Abbott. There’s a bad pong about the Victorian Justice System.

  186. stackja

    Gab
    #3137005, posted on August 21, 2019 at 11:41 am
    Little do they know what the good Cardinal’s suffering is going to do for the Church.

    The communists framed József Mindszenty and Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac.

  187. max

    notafan say: who has reinterpreted the bible to suit your own prejudices.

    Sorry, English is not my first language – can you tell me what is say:

    1 Timothy 3 New International Reader’s Version (NIRV)

    Rules for Choosing Leaders and Deacons
    3 Here is a saying you can trust. If anyone wants to be a leader in the church, they want to do a good work for God and people. 2 A leader must be free from blame. He must be faithful to his wife. In anything he does, he must not go too far. He must control himself. He must be worthy of respect. He must welcome people into his home. He must be able to teach. 3 He must not get drunk. He must not push people around. He must be gentle. He must not be a person who likes to argue. He must not love money. 4 He must manage his own family well. He must make sure that his children obey him. And he must do this in a way that gains him respect. 5 Suppose someone doesn’t know how to manage his own family. Then how can he take care of God’s church? 6 The leader must not be a new believer. If he is, he might become proud. Then he would be judged just like the devil. 7 The leader must also be respected by those who are outside the church. Then he will not be put to shame. He will not fall into the devil’s trap.

    8 In the same way, deacons must be worthy of respect. They must be honest and true. They must not drink too much wine. They must not try to get money by cheating people. 9 They must hold on to the deep truths of the faith. Even their own minds tell them to do that. 10 First they must be tested. Then let them serve as deacons if there is nothing against them.

    11 In the same way, the women must be worthy of respect. They must not say things that harm others. In anything they do, they must not go too far. They must be worthy of trust in everything.

    12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife. He must manage his children and family well. 13 Those who have served well earn the full respect of others. They also become more sure of their faith in Christ Jesus.

  188. Steve trickler

    Surely a shock-wave is going through legal at the moment.

    Precedent.

  189. stackja

    St Paul wrote to Timothy about the life being lead at the time.

  190. Dr Fred Lenin

    Now the lawtrade can get on with polishing the turd of the lawyer x business .
    Large amouns of taxpayer funds will be spent trying to make the lawtrade smell less fishy.
    These arrogant bastards are un believeable ,no wonder politics stinks, its full of these leeches
    Sweep the rubbish under the carpet no one will look there.

  191. Tel

    I blame God.

    With the four arms thing … next it will be eight arms. The time has come for the Catholic church to admit that the Hindus got it right all along.

    No shame in coming along late to the party, but if not now then when, huh?

    How many arms is it gonna take?!?

  192. Mother Lode

    A conviction doesn’t made it true Monty.

    ‘Tis true.

    Monty has convictions, and every one of them is clambering over the other to see which is most retarded.

    Monty was our original wrongologist, and still a colossus in the field. (He is now pitted against that Numberwang cur.)

  193. stackja

    Meanwhile:

    Did you know that at 37+ weeks-[baby’s due date]-a preborn perfect baby was aborted in Victoria in 2011.
    Preborn babies over 20 weeks are being born alive in Victoria after their own abortions. The 37+ week baby was aborted for a “maternal psychosocial indication” for example economic or social reasons. Abortion continues unabated in Victoria.

    Preborn babies over 20 weeks are being born alive in Victoria after their own abortions. These babies are older than some premature, wanted babies who are saved with life-giving care in our hospitals. What happens to the unwanted aborted born-alive babies?

    This is confirmed by published Government data about abortions over 20 weeks gestation.

  194. Viva

    With the four arms thing … next it will be eight arms. The time has come for the Catholic church to admit that the Hindus got it right all along.

    No shame in coming along late to the party, but if not now then when, huh?

    How many arms is it gonna take?!?

    It’s a variant of “four legs good, two legs bad” Tel.

  195. notafan

    Dear Max

    please point out the bit that says a leader or a deacon must have a wife

    and tell me how you reconcile your claims to the words of St Paul in I Corinthians 7:8, 9) or are you happy to wave away seeming biblical contradictions?

    all in all your underlining allegation that Cardinal Pell is guilty because of priestly celibacy is extremely distasteful. to say the less

    and FYI Bible is a Catholic book .

    the link is quite long with lots of biblical references

    enjoy

    The biblical foundation of

    priestly celibacy

  196. Leigh Lowe

    Geriatric Mayfly

    #3137014, posted on August 21, 2019 at 11:53 am

    I imagine the High Court takes a rather condescending view of shopping strip lawyers who rise above their station.

    And Police Commissioners who lose files which are the subject of discovery, or suddenly remember at the eleventh hour that a defence barrister was on the informant payroll for ten years longer than disclosed in evidence.

  197. max

    stackja
    #3137032, posted on August 21, 2019 at 12:11 pm
    St Paul wrote to Timothy about the life being lead at the time.

    Yes, if you are not christian, than it can be interpreted that way.
    but if you are Christian Bible is the word of God — written and recorded by humans.

  198. Stimpson J. Cat

    Catholics Rise Up!!!!

  199. vr

    When does Weinberg’s dissent get published?

  200. Leigh Lowe

    stackja

    #3137038, posted on August 21, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    Meanwhile:

    Did you know that at 37+ weeks-[baby’s due date]-a preborn perfect baby was aborted in Victoria in 2011. 
    Preborn babies over 20 weeks are being born alive in Victoria after their own abortions. The 37+ week baby was aborted for a “maternal psychosocial indication” for example economic or social reasons. 

    Allow me to translate.
    Dad did a runner a 8 months.
    Baby must die.

  201. Iampeter

    iampeter now claiming that the entire Catholic Church is a child sex cabal

    who will sink lower?

    What would you call it? Or the people supporting it?
    For example, in Australia alone there are over four thousand(!) of cases of child abuse in a fifty year period. Almost two thousand suspected abusers.
    That’s known cases.
    Who knows how many people just died and whose lives were ruined who never told anyone.
    Who knows how many people just decided they’d rather get on with their lives and not come forward.
    Most of the perpetrators have gotten away with it thanks to the successful and long range cover up.
    So, what would you call such an organisation?

    You ask who could sink lower, but there’s few lower than someone supporting the Catholic Church.

    Also, calling the Catholic Church a child sex cabal would be one of the least worst things someone could call it.
    It only covers the crimes they’ve allegedly committed in living memory.

  202. max

    “please point out the bit that says a leader or a deacon must have a wife”

    I did not say must

    1 Corinthians 7:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

    8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

    fish smell always from the top first and than smell spread to all parts of body — meaning small people do what leaders do — monkey see monkey do.

  203. C.L.

    In the courtroom as George Pell learned his appeal had failed, the father of his dead victim sobbed with relief.

    Because now he doesn’t have to explain how his teen son became a smack addict on his watch.

  204. notafan

    Max the world’s leading authority on biblical exegesis

    Your spirituality is skin deep

    what happens when you abandon the sacraments, I suppose

  205. max

    The Roman Catholic rejection of the Biblical blueprint for the Christian church has led to a culture of leadership in which homosexuality and pedophilia have been tolerated, condoned, covered-up, and encouraged. Marriage has been forbidden; celibacy enforced. This reversal of the Biblical requirements for church leaders is the cause of the widespread homosexuality and pedophilia of the Roman clergy.

  206. In the courtroom as George Pell learned his appeal had failed, the father of his dead victim sobbed with relief.

    Correct me where I’m wrong, I thought he was seeking leave to appeal?
    Meaning he’s not allowed to appeal.
    A totally different meaning to an appeal failing.

  207. max

    unfortunately all Christians are now “guilty by association” with some rotten apples — this is exactly what Iampeter posting

  208. Des Deskperson

    ‘I wonder what Bung Journo’s verdict on the whole matter will be.

    Didn’t he share a bedroom with Ridsdale?’

    There was also that submission to the RC from a former parishioner of Bonge’s alleging that he complained to Bonge about being molested by Ridsdale. Bonge allegedly said he would report the matter but did nothing.

    Bonge has strongly denied the entire episode in a stat dec. There were discrepancies about times, dates and places and it was he said/he said so – perhaps understandably, the RC did not take the matter any further. Bolt has the story:

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/why-is-bongiorno-not-vilified-as-was-pell-why-is-pell-the-scapegoat/news-story/ff7be707798509e9973b0248bcbfc657

    Even so, I doubt the matter would have been buried so completely by the MSM had Bonge been a conservative.

    Bonage was an enthusiast for the RC and its proceedings, and always made a point of referring to it as ‘Julia Gillard’s Royal Commission’.

  209. Real Deal

    The best way to determine Pell’s guilt or innocence is to observe the quality of character of those in the media who are gleefully trumpeting this fresh verdict. Their ecstasy at the news reminds me of a group of Pyongyang kiddies celebrating Dear Leader’s birthday.

  210. one old bruce

    Max you are indeed guilty of persecuting the innocent, just as if you hammered in the nails yourself. Never mind ‘association’, you are actually in the party of perpetrators of this witch hunt.

    I blame you and your kind for this injustice, shameless bloviating idiots, ignorant mob of scapegoaters.

  211. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    UNFUCKING BELIEVEABLE

    Comment of the day. Says it all.

    So much for justice and the rule of law.
    A sad day for both of those things.

  212. yarpos

    Bill Shortern must be worried if this level of evidence convicts. He has a he said / she said accusation hanging out there.

  213. Lee

    Very strange how Pell was supposed to have known Ridsdale’s darkest secrets, yet Bongiorno, who actually lived with the man said he knew nothing about what he was doing.

    But Bongiorno was believed, and Pell not.

    Anyone else see a double standard?

    I wonder why? (/sarc)

  214. notafan

    Thankyou One Old Bruce

    I haven’t bothered to read Max’s last couple of comments

    as nasty as monty, in his own special way

  215. max

    one old bruce
    #3137078, posted on August 21, 2019 at 12:56 pm
    Max you are indeed guilty of persecuting the innocent, just as if you hammered in the nails yourself. Never mind ‘association’, you are actually in the party of perpetrators of this witch hunt.

    I blame you and your kind for this injustice, shameless bloviating idiots, ignorant mob of scapegoaters.

    Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin Bishop: There Are Gays In The Catholic Hierarchy

    “Almost exclusively homosexual” is not quite right, but the truth is bad enough. The authoritative 2004 John Jay Study of Catholic priest sexual abuse found that unlike in the general population, where most victims of sexual abuse are female, four out of five victims of Catholic priests are male. Here’s a screenshot from the report:

    Furthermore, the Jay report found that
    The majority of alleged victims were post-pubescent, with only a small  percentage of priests receiving allegations of abusing young children.

    So they weren’t pedophiles, strictly speaking. These were gay men who wanted to get it on with sexually mature (in the physical sense) boys.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bishop-there-are-gays-in-the-catholic-hierarchy/

  216. Bill Shortern must we all should now be worried if this level of evidence convicts.

  217. max

    Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin Bishop: There Are Ga ys In The Catholic Hierarchy

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bishop-there-are-gays-in-the-catholic-hierarchy/

  218. max

    Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin Bishop:

    It is time to admit that there is a homosexual subculture within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church that is wreaking great devastation in the vineyard of the Lord.

  219. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I am not a Catholic, nor am I religious, I sat next to Pell once in an airport lounge and didn’t warm to the man, but I do not believe he was guilty as charged for offences that seem most unlikely, indeed almost impossible to have occurred as they were claimed to do in the charges. Justice has in this case been denied. No other conclusion is possible from any unbiased view of the facts. I don’t care who cried and wept and when, the facts of this case as presented did not stack up to warrant a guilty verdict.

  220. Lysander

    Max, I won’t bother reading your tripe either; suffice to say that:

    -Child abuse occurs mostly in the family home (where people are obviously having sex);
    -Institutionally, the uniting church was the worst offender on a per capita basis (and they have sex too);
    -Overall, you were more likely to be assaulted in a NSW Government-ran institution than the Catholic Church.

  221. max

    I am not a Catholic, nor am I religious, I sat next to Pell once in an airport lounge and didn’t warm to the man, but I do not believe he was guilty

    you have humanist religion attacking christian religion — there is no neutrality Elisabeth

  222. Oh come on

    I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history

    Cardinal Francis George

  223. Gab

    Thanks for that comment, Lee. Stolen by me 😊

  224. Cassie of Sydney

    “Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
    #3137091, posted on August 21, 2019 at 1:05 pm
    I am not a Catholic, nor am I religious, I sat next to Pell once in an airport lounge and didn’t warm to the man, but I do not believe he was guilty as charged for offences that seem most unlikely, indeed almost impossible to have occurred as they were claimed to do in the charges. Justice has in this case been denied. No other conclusion is possible from any unbiased view of the facts. I don’t care who cried and wept and when, the facts of this case as presented did not stack up to warrant a guilty verdict.”

    Well said Lizzie…and from what I read over at the Oz….

    “Cardinal Pell’s spokeswoman, Katrina Lee, has issued a statement expressing his disappointment at today’s decision and maintaining his innocence.

    “Cardinal Pell is obviously disappointed with the decision today,” Ms Lee said. “However, his legal team will thoroughly examine the judgment in order to determine a special leave application to the High Court.

    “While noting the 2-1 split decision, Cardinal Pell maintains his innocence. We thank his many supporters.”

  225. max

    Lysander
    #3137092, posted on August 21, 2019 at 1:07 pm
    Max, I won’t bother reading your tripe either; suffice to say that:

    -Child abuse occurs mostly in the family home (where people are obviously having sex);
    -Institutionally, the uniting church was the worst offender on a per capita basis (and they have sex too);
    -Overall, you were more likely to be assaulted in a NSW Government-ran institution than the Catholic Church.

    humanist have 2 standards one for them and another por their opponents — like I say before religion and who should have right to vote and judge you matter — but our standards need to be good and better than their.

  226. Cassie of Sydney

    “max
    #3137093, posted on August 21, 2019 at 1:07 pm

    you have humanist religion attacking christian religion — there is no neutrality Elisabeth”

    What utter rubbish you write Max

  227. Lysander

    What utter rubbish you write Max

    +1

  228. Lee

    -Institutionally, the uniting church was the worst offender on a per capita basis (and they have sex too);

    Ironically, you probably couldn’t get a more left wing church than the Uniting Church.

    It has been said that they believe in everything but God!

  229. The Sheriff

    To all the anti-Catholic bigots posting bile on this thread: stop for a moment and ask yourself if you would ever use the same scathing words in relation to any other religion (especially one that starts with the letter I). If the answer is no, retract and apologise.

  230. notafan

    Really the comments about sitting next to Cardinal Pell or not knowing him at all but being able to judge the character of a private man are so shallow

    my mother knew him well enough and a relative was his altar server as a young boy for many years in a small parish but I have no opinion as to what he is like personally

    I see a man of God who is suffering for the sins of others

    I would see this wiped clean in this life for his sake and the sake of Christ and His Church he has served faithfully under arduous circumstances for many decades.

    God bless him.

  231. hzhousewife

    the father of his dead victim sobbed with relief.

    The father of the dead victim has to clutch at straws, sadly. I wonder about the living victim, who is now in his thirties, married with two children (I think I read once ). He has to live with his conscience, as does Bongiorno.

  232. vr

    The verdict

    Pell v The Queen [2019] VSCA 186 (21 August 2019)

  233. Oh come on

    Lee, the Eddie Izzard skit about CofE is very funny. “Father, I have done many bad things!” “Well, so have I…?”

  234. Lee

    Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin Bishop: There Are Ga ys In The Catholic Hierarchy

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bishop-there-are-gays-in-the-catholic-hierarchy/

    Yet even the harshest, most virulent critic of the Catholic church will not talk about the elephant in the room, which must be protected at all cost.

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