Tuesday Forum: September 10, 2019

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2,604 Responses to Tuesday Forum: September 10, 2019

  1. littledozer

    Heavily speculated Gladys Liu had links to the Chinese government within the Vic Libs, joked about for years (2009 first I heard). Huge fundraiser. Surprised the hell out of me when saw her as the candidate for Chisholm, just assumed was completely unwinnable.

  2. egg_

    Explain how the code change occurs for a fish to go from the water to inhaling air and flying around.

    It’s mathematically impossible without a powerful attractor – IMHO ‘Intelligent Design’ is closer to the truth than random selection and Ridley is an academic fvckwit.

  3. Fat Tony

    egg_
    #3152548, posted on September 10, 2019 at 10:56 pm
    fish are hippos?

    They can be if they want to be – go back to your cave neanderthal

  4. JC

    Still, there are exceptions; I reckon it would take a billion years before you said something intelligent head prefect. But keep trying; imagine you’re one of those chimps on the keyboard.

    That would be too short for you, Cronkite. I’ll be waiting through infinity to end up believing you have a functioning brain stem and see you utter something halfway intelligent. But then, that applies to quite a few idiots here so don’t feel you’re alone in this corner of the universe. Stick to the global temps fraud.

  5. Mark A

    cohenite
    #3152531, posted on September 10, 2019 at 10:45 pm

    It appears that a bunch academics have grown a sack and attacked Darwin evolution at its core – by suggesting that it is impossible because random selection could never have created the level of complexity that goes into creating a cell. They do it through math.

    They’re fucking idiots. Natural selection is not random.

    On average, the program re-created TOBEORNOTTOBE in just 336 iterations, less than 90 seconds. Even more amazing, it could reconstruct Shakespeare’s entire play in just four and a half days.

    I think you have misread that or the conditions are quite different.
    Just to break a 40 character password, not to write a Shakespeare play, would take many years at current tech.

  6. Arky

    … pulled itself into existence from the chemicals that just happened to have exactly the correct geometric structure to ensure all that worked perfectly.

  7. MatrixTransform

    at just the correct but incredibly narrow rate of error that just enough beneficial permutations are kept, but not too few that no progress is made, and not too many that the system is overwhelmed by junk.

    and then, suddenly, this forum appeared

    (its a simile)

  8. egg_

    how did we get life from non-life?

    Proteins and RNA from amino acids – but how is indeed the question.

  9. cohenite

    And by what mechanism did the mechanism of evolution evolve?

    The second law and entropy. Teleology is tautological.

  10. Top Ender

    Giant asteroid sparked extinction: dig sheds light on day the dinosaurs died

    By RHYS BLAKELY
    THE TIMES
    3:31PM SEPTEMBER 10, 2019
    70 COMMENTS

    The impact ended the reign of the dinosaurs, giving rise to the Age of Mammals.

    Now an excavation of the crash site has offered an unparalleled account of how an asteroid with the power of 10 billion atomic bombs came to blot out the Sun some 66 million years ago.

    The impact, off the Yucatan Peninsula in the Gulf of Mexico, sent wildfires raging across thousands of kilometres as a vast sulfurous cloud plunged the Earth into a decade-long global winter.

    Without the mass extinction that ensued, humans would never have evolved.

    The research from the impact site, published on Tuesday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, focuses on a column of rock drilled from the central zone of the 150km-wide Chicxulub crater.

    In the 24 hours after the asteroid struck, about 130m of material was deposited, a rate of accumulation seldom matched in the geological record.

    Fried, then frozen

    According to Sean Gulick, of the University of Texas Institute for Geophysics, the layers tell a clear story: much of the life on Earth was first fried and then ­frozen.

    “Not all the dinosaurs died that day, but many dinosaurs did,” Professor Gulick said.

    The analysis has revealed the cataclysmic forces that were unleashed inside the crater in the minutes after impact, as well as holding clues about the longer-lasting effects of an event that would snuff out three quarters of life on the planet.

    Researchers estimate that the asteroid, which was probably about 15km wide, hit with the equivalent power of 10 billion atomic bombs of the size dropped on Hiroshima in the Second World War.

    Monster tsunami

    The blast gave rise to a tsunami that reached as far inland as Illinois, a distance of 4000km.

    The bottom 40m or 50m of the extracted column are melted rock and breccia — fragments of stones cemented by finer material — that were deposited within minutes of the asteroid strike, amid clouds of super-heated dust, ash, and steam. At the earliest stage, the solid Earth was behaving as if it were a viscous fluid. Another 90m of material were deposited by ocean water flowing back into the vast crater: the tsunami backwash. In these layers, researchers found charcoal and a substance associated with soil fungi, embedded in sand.

    The patterns show how a charred landscape was sucked into the crater as the ocean settled. Professor Jay Melosh, of Purdue University, who was not involved in the newest study, said: “It was a momentous day in the history of life, and this is a very clear documentation of what happened at ground zero.”

    The researchers have also found pink granite, a substance that might have been 7600m below the Earth’s surface before the impact.

    The samples are perhaps most notable for what is missing: the area surrounding the impact crater includes sulphur-rich material, but there was no sulphur in the drilled core. This supports the theory that the impact vaporised sulphur-bearing minerals, releasing the element into the atmosphere.

    This profoundly altered Earth’s climate, reflecting the Sun’s energy away and plunging the planet into something akin to a nuclear winter.

    Researchers estimate that at least 325 billion tonnes of sulphur were released. That is about four orders of magnitude greater than the sulphur that was spewed during the 1883 eruption of the Krakatoa volcano in Indonesia, which had a cooling effect that some analysts believe lasted a century.

    Although the asteroid impact caused mass destruction at a regional level, changes to the climate were behind the extinction of the dinosaurs, the researchers believe.

    “The real killer has got to be atmospheric,” Professor Gulick said. “The only way you get a global mass extinction like this is an atmospheric effect.”

    The Times . Oz

  11. MatrixTransform

    Teleology is tautological

    nice.
    v. nice

  12. Knuckle Dragger

    You do realise you’re all going to get bent over the ute when Catholic Hour starts, don’t you?

  13. egg_

    an entire universe sprang into existence

    The Big Bang folk are now saying that time preceded the Universe, how quaint.
    The hand of God?
    Lemaître was a priest.

  14. JC

    egg_
    #3152563, posted on September 10, 2019 at 11:03 pm

    how did we get life from non-life?

    Proteins and RNA from amino acids – but how is indeed the question.

    A protein is basically a large part of a cell. In fact it’s a cell. How does a protein mutation occur?

  15. egg_

    The second law and entropy.

    That’s what defines life and mitochondria is the engine.

  16. cohenite

    Just to break a 40 character password, not to write a Shakespeare play, would take many years at current tech.

    Indeed; but they are not the same. In fact they are the opposite. Breaking the password is the equivalent of creating a whole organism at once because the thing does not work until the almost infinite parts are all in place. Adaptive selection is almost infinitely more narrow as bits and pieces change within the organism, hence the word evolve.

  17. Infidel Tiger

    But what extremists like you, IT, don’t understand, and that is, by the way, why revolutions always fail, is that whenever you give someone the big Fuck You, they can give it to you back.
    And guess what the British Parliament gave to BoJo?

    You stupid stupid man.

    The Big fuck you is what the parliament has been giving to Britain people who voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU only to have their vote denied.

    BoJo is trying as he might to right the wrong. An election is the only answer to a parliament that no longer represent its constituents.

    Delcon are you really this stupid or are this an elaborate act?

  18. egg_

    How does a protein mutation occur?

    Cosmic particles in the early atmosphere.

  19. Arky

    The second law and entropy.

    ..
    Is not a mechanism.
    You posit that the complex mechanical system used by cells to edit DNA is the mechanism by which life evolves.
    You have no similar instrument to point to which could possibly have done the orders of magnitude more difficult task of arranging molecules into that editing mechanism.
    It can’t have evolved, before a mechanism for evolution existed.

  20. dover_beach

    Dover, life is a chemical phenomenon imbued with Time. It ‘happened’.

    Is it only a chemical phenomenon? You also seem to be clutching to time too tightly, as in: If we just sit by a rock long enough, it will produce De Anima in time. No, it won’t. As to life ‘happening’, we know it did, obviously, but you’re assuming that the range of answers do not include teleology of some sort. Which was Nagel’s point in his recent book, Mind and Cosmos, which is that materialism will not, cannot, answer, questions relating to life and mind, and that if science is to have any hope of answering them has to move beyond the materialism of the last five centuries.

  21. MatrixTransform

    You do realise you’re all going to get bent over the ute when Catholic Hour starts, don’t you?

    why do Catholics always say ,”do you know what I mean?” after describing something like the size of the universe? …or bad drivers … the price of electricity?

    watch for it … once you’ve seen it, it can never be unseen

  22. egg_

    Natural selection is not random.

    Protein sequences are?

  23. cohenite

    It can’t have evolved, before a mechanism for evolution existed.

    Nah; it works in the current universe; you’re talking about before the current universe. Before the big bang was the big foreplay.

  24. dover_beach

    Teleology is tautological.

    Only to Moliere and even then, what he attempted to lampoon was not tautological.

  25. MatrixTransform

    and that if science is to have any hope of answering them has to move beyond the materialism of the last five centuries.

    …do you know what I mean?

    LOL

    (predicted KD)

  26. Delcon

    Heavily speculated Gladys Liu had links to the Chinese government within the Vic Libs

    Cheer up, everyone, it’s not so bad: had she not been elected, and her Labor opponent would have gotten in, she probably have turned out to be a Chi om spy as well.

  27. egg_

    life is a chemical phenomenon imbued with Time.

    Time is said to have preceded the Universe and some Philosophers are saying that time = God.

  28. Lazlo

    Ha! The fun about all this Top Ender is that there is a monumental cat-fight in the paleo community about whether the extinction was caused by a meteor or volcanic catastrophes in the Kamchatka Penisular. These two academic communities are involved in a war to the death – personal abuse, de-platforming, loss of job opportunities – in defence of their causes.

    Of course, “the science” is a dispassionate calling that cannot be questioned.

  29. JC

    Indeed; but they are not the same. In fact they are the opposite. Breaking the password is the equivalent of creating a whole organism at once

    No it’s not, you infernal twit. How many variations of amino acids are there? 20? You then have to place these chems in a chain of 500 groupings t the exact spot to create a protein. The combination … the exact combination..is possibly inflated to infinity. There simply hasn’t been enough time to create a cell/protein with this enormous level of complexity.

    However, I make an exception for you though. A lab full of monkeys could create you in a few hours.

  30. Arky

    a whole organism at once because the thing does not work until the almost infinite parts are all in place.

    ..
    Now you’re getting it.

  31. egg_

    entropy

    Life defies entropy but has been recently defined in a theory as a means of dispersing energy.

  32. Zyconoclast

    Ex AFL players die as a matter of routine.

    Why are they making such a big deal about this Frawley bloke?
    Is he indigenous?

  33. dover_beach

    and that if science is to have any hope of answering them has to move beyond the materialism of the last five centuries.

    …do you know what I mean?

    LOL

    (predicted KD)

    I never knew Aristotle was Catholic, nor Nagel.

  34. cohenite

    Teleology is tautological.

    Only to Moliere and even then, what he attempted to lampoon was not tautological.

    I’m going to bed so if you could expand on that, that would be good.

    Head prefect, STFU; your last comment is really stupid. But in the spirit of Darwin I will attempt to point you in the right direction: see Russell F. Doolittle’s refutation of the idiot Behe and irreducibility.

  35. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Materialism is all we have and I agree it seems insufficient but we are relying here on current understandings of what the concept entails. I have argued that our comprehension is puny, not that any divinity is needed to breech the gap. How probabilities run in time is where we may further extend our understanding of things material. New knowledge.

    MTt Ridley in ‘The Red Queen’ is fascinating on the development of sex gametes, with the y chromosome terrorising the x in an attack and evade chase. The second element in Darwin’s mechanism is sexual selection as a driver as well as the environmental drivers to which the most attention has been given. Runaway sexual selection can produce fast changes in any organism.

  36. MatrixTransform

    I never knew Aristotle was Catholic, nor Nagel.

    yeah?
    I never knew that the materialism of the last five centuries could be condensed into a single throwaway.
    …until now

  37. egg_

    Arky
    #3152441, posted on September 10, 2019 at 9:48 pm

    Stephen Meyer covers the Mathematics of protein sequencing – way beyond the number of stars in the Universe.

  38. Delcon

    Infidel Tiger
    #3152574, posted on September 10, 2019 at 11:11 pm
    You stupid stupid man.

    Thanks for the compliment.

    The Big fuck you is what the parliament has been giving to Britain people who voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU only to have their vote denied.

    It was delayed, yes. Was it right for the Tories to delay it? No, it was a monumental fuck up. But they tried to make things right by getting rid of the bitch. So they are trying to do the right thing, and that should count for something.

    BoJo is trying as he might to right the wrong. An election is the only answer to a parliament that no longer represent its constituents.

    Democracy means you do things by the Parliament. Elections will come sooner or later with the consent of the Parliament. AOC assured me that there are at least 12 years until Global Warming wipes off life on the planet, and the British electoral cycle is five years, so the world will probably not end by the next elections.
    In other words, one way or another, there will be elections, and then BoJo, Farage, Corbyn and whomever else can go to the electorate and argue their case. The electorate will choose whoever they want.
    It’s called democracy. I’m sure you’re familiar with Churchill’s famous saying about democracy.
    In this context, maybe we just agree with Churchill and play nice with the Parliament.

    Delcon are you really this stupid or are this an elaborate act?

    Just trying to impress you, IT.

  39. MatrixTransform

    you got yr time scale …mate

  40. Lazlo

    You can break most passwords within minutes using routine password cracking software. A brute-force attack is the most stupid and time consuming thing to do. Data sorting and searching 101 says you narrow the search space (as Turing did) . Try idiocy – “password”, “000000” – move on to the next, less idiot level – “my username” etc, my name, date of birth, etc. There are Rainbow Tables (as used by Assange) that will get you there for 90% of passwords.

    Assume that your password protected information is assailable.

  41. JC

    Runaway sexual selection can produce fast changes in any organism.

    Mutations? How? “fast changes” does not also mean mutations.

  42. C.L.

    Bryson Gray is my man of the day … Always escalate:

  43. dover_beach

    yeah?
    I never knew that the materialism of the last five centuries could be condensed into a single throwaway.
    …until now

    I didn’t condense it, nor was it a throwaway line given that I referenced a book that anyone could follow up if they were interested.

  44. Arky

    Stephen Meyer covers the Mathematics of protein sequencing – way beyond the number of stars in the Universe.

    ..
    I don’t think some of the people commenting here have a grasp on the numbers.
    It is mind- bogglingly unlikely.

  45. dover_beach

    Materialism is all we have

    No, it isn’t.

  46. JC

    These guys argue. Arky’s link.

    If an attempt at mutation comes after a creature has been created it ends up as adaptation. The code is set. If it also occurs too early the new creature will be destroyed. there’s no chance of mutation at either end – early or at maturity.

  47. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Egg. I capitalised Time and suggested it might seem to be God (philosophically) in my first comment on this topic here tonight. As should be apparent from my last one above, also based on the complexities of multiple time-based probability sequences, I see no reason to postulate a deity, although I am open to all comers on this.

  48. Arky

    I’m afraid biology is the weakest science.
    It attracts the worst candidates: Girls and stuff.
    People who think it will all be about vaginas and fluffy animals and shit.

  49. egg_

    I don’t think some of the people commenting here have a grasp on the numbers.

    Atoms in the Universe scale of numbers.

  50. MatrixTransform

    I didn’t condense it, nor was it a throwaway line given that I referenced a book that anyone could follow up if they were interested.

    OK no more wanking … ISBN

  51. Lazlo

    Well egg, you seem to be arguing for a deity?

  52. egg_

    Sum of atoms in parallel Universes scale of numbers.

  53. Arky

    Girls and stuff.

    ..
    Just kidding ladies.
    But seriously, take more maths subjects at school before applying for a Biology major at uni.

  54. JC

    Psychology is fine for girls, Arky.

  55. dover_beach

    OK no more wanking … ISBN

    Was that for one of your post-its?

  56. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Mutations are slow and developmental. Seeing ‘fixture’ or a ‘set’ organism at any stage may be barking up the wrong tree. We are dealing with a lot of incremental genetic fluidity when it comes to selective pressuring OVER TIME.

    Phylogenesis is real.

  57. Arky

    Mutations are slow and developmental. Seeing ‘fixture’ or a ‘set’ organism at any stage may be barking up the wrong tree. We are dealing with a lot of incremental genetic fluidity when it comes to selective pressuring OVER TIME.

    ..
    Have you watched the videos linked upthread?

  58. notafan

    Chisholm is 20% Chinese.

    Box Hill Central shopping centre is 100% Chinese.

    Not the same thing.

  59. Mark A

    Lazlo, back in my uni days when using 386 and 486 “primtive” computers we were tasked to calculate breaking simple 6 character passwords. Given the number of characters is a start and great advantage, what if you don’t know even that?
    Read a short article.

  60. Lazlo

    Quite so egg_but you are avoiding my question.

    Is there a deity overseeing evolution? I don’t think so. You?

  61. JC

    phylogenesis
    /ˌfʌɪlə(ʊ)ˈdʒɛnɪsɪs/
    nounBiology
    noun: phylogenesis

    the evolutionary development and diversification of a species or group of organisms, or of a particular feature of an organism.

    That’s not mutation. That’s adaptation.

    Diversification means a snow leopard and a jungle leopard. An African and Eskimo.

  62. JC

    Is there a deity overseeing evolution? I don’t think so. You?

    It’s code. It’s all code, but we don’t know where this code comes from and why this code exists. It’s all information.

  63. max

    You can’t win an Australian election now unless you promise handouts. . Politicians and their families won’t pay the price of the NBN, NDIS, submarines, renewable madness, or losing the car industry but the rest of us will.

    And it’s not just politicians. You’d have to take on the AMA and the bolshevik doctors to do something about health. Teachers. The ABC. The multi culti industry. Cut their handouts and never get elected again. The only way this will change is through economic collapse. And when China goes down we will follow. It will be a necessary cleansing.

  64. Delcon

    You can’t win an Australian election now unless you promise handouts… You’d have to take on the AMA and the bolshevik doctors to do something about health. Teachers. The ABC. The multi culti industry. Cut their handouts and never get elected again.

    Labor/ABC spin doctors BS.

  65. Lazlo

    That’s a brute force attack Mark A, which makes for interesting numbers, but is stupid.

    If you were looking for the keys in your house that you mislaid, would you start randomly searching every room? Or would you start looking in the “likely” places? That is how you narrow the “search space” and thus reduce the time to reach your goal.

    Enigma was broken initially by focusing on what the operators would do first thing, such as “hello” or what was in the news yesterday. Feed those clues/biases into Turing’s click clack machine and maybe it will stop clicking sooner, which it did.

  66. dover_beach

    Is there a deity overseeing evolution? I don’t think so. You?

    Why are they mutually exclusive? You could have God and evolution. Evolution does not depend upon materialism. Also, the idea of God as overseer is quaint.

  67. Lazlo

    Sure, they are not mutually exclusive. But God / no God are.

  68. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Enough diversification eventually creates a new species. Not rocket science. You move from an australopithicine to a man in a bowler hat. 🙂

    Arky I know about the objectors and their line but will look at those particular vids but not tonight. I have a dance class to get up for in the morning.

    Mathematical modeling is sometimes gigo.

  69. Mark A

    Lazlo
    #3152628, posted on September 11, 2019 at 12:05 am

    That’s a brute force attack Mark A, which makes for interesting numbers, but is stupid.

    I assumed you have no info, not even the length of the PWD,
    Brute force may be stupid but the only force you have in this situation.

    You are coming from a different angle, fine.
    There is no repeating pattern or shouldn’t be in a password, like there was in the German coded messages re. weather report, etc.
    Anyway it’s immaterial to the current discussion.

  70. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Also, there are phylogenetic carrier codes. No-one is seriously disputing that. The main issue is still the combinatory biochemical basis of cellular life and we do not have all the answers to that.

    Diing better than we were when I first started studying biology though.

  71. egg_

    From the above video, Douglas Axe is saying that for a new 150 amino acid sequence protein to form takes a probability of 1 in 10^77 (10^65 atoms in the Milky Way Galaxy); 10^40 organisms have ever lived – for a single random mutation to fit.

  72. JC

    Enough diversification eventually creates a new species.

    Sure, we can create a man out of a woman and vice versa as we’re told so often. All it takes is a little diversification in a surgery, a few drugs every day and presto Harold becomes Davine.

    We currently have zero evidence and in fact the evidence points to the impossibility of mutation.

  73. egg_

    Is there a deity overseeing evolution?

    Aren’t we a simulation – a 3D hologram projected from a 2D source?
    /Matrix

  74. egg_

    I assumed you have no info, not even the length of the PWD,
    Brute force may be stupid but the only force you have in this situation.

    Plus use a quantum computer.

  75. Arky

    When I started researching for that evolution debate, I thought I had chosen the far weaker side. Of course evolution is true.
    Then I started playing with the numbers.
    I did that without looking up other people’s work or googling the answers. I made my own model.
    I was blown away by how unlikely it all was, and when I looked up other people’s solutions I saw that even the evolutionists conceded it was a problem. Dawkins devotes about a half a paragraph to it in “The God Delusion” and seems to deliberately skate over it.

  76. egg_

    Is there a deity overseeing evolution?

    According to Philosophers, Father Time is the deity.
    Life is a mechanism for entropy.
    The arrow of time is the second law of thermodynamics.

  77. egg_

    Folding proteins and protein motors

  78. Arky

    Reading “The God Delusion” again (I had a copy at home and had read it when it first came out) actually helped convince me these people are barking up the wrong tree.
    Dawkins has levels of arrogance and contempt that makes our very own Dr Beaugan seem a paragon of humility.

  79. Arky

    Dawkins, however, probably isn’t refusing to bang Cuban hookers in some strange experiment to prove that virtue can exist in the absence of God.

  80. JC

    Didn’t he get his leg-over, over there Arky?

  81. Arky

    I hope not.
    Life must be hard enough as a Cuban without having some crusty old bastard sweating and humping away on top of you for two and a half minutes.

  82. Steve trickler

    Get fucked, Gooooolllllaaaaaggg.

    That footage from NZ is banned. But not this? Hypocrites.



  83. Steve trickler

    Repeat. Perhaps the third time?

    These two ladies tell their story.



  84. Armadillo

    I admit it. I stole Arkys other 3 hubcaps.

  85. Armadillo

    The Model A looks pretty pathetic. As expected.

  86. Armadillo

    One hubcap? Order four you idiot.

  87. Armadillo

    Could be a record attempt in the offering?

  88. Armadillo

    Sinc, what the hell happened to “The Cat”.

    The discussions seem to revolve around talented Sheliah authors (no such thing).

  89. Armadillo

    Dot was right on this. Nailed it.

  90. Armadillo

    Still catching up. FMD.

    Stimpy needs to be banned.

  91. Armadillo

    I’m waiting in excitement for the knitting technique conversation.

  92. Armadillo

    “Enid”. Seriously, who calls their child “Enid”? Spite? Hatred?

    Only a fucked up leftard would do that to their child.

  93. Armadillo

    It’s a bit like calling your child “Tiger Lilly” or some other retarded name.

    Imagine roll call in kindergarten. Might be a bit uncomfortable.

  94. Armadillo

    Parents can be absolute arsehats. How selfish is that?

    Call your kid a decent name. Stick to the basics. John, Paul or Joseph. Female choices could be Mary, Mary or Mary. If you want to get extravagant, go with Marie.

  95. Armadillo

    Woah. Doc knocked back a root from a Cuban whore?

  96. Armadillo

    Hang on. I’m now reading his self defence. Seems flimsy.

  97. Armadillo

    I suspect Doc hasn’t been in Cuba all this time.

    Just a hunch.

  98. Mark A

    Just a friendly reminder, if you want a new record, hurry up.
    Tom will be around any minute now.

  99. Armadillo

    Hmmm…you are still talking about female authors?

    I’m on “The Cat” rewind. KMN.

  100. Armadillo

    Tom won’t show. Not till 5ish.

  101. Armadillo

    Mark A, what the hell have this lot been up to?

    It’s like reading Women’s Weekly.

  102. Armadillo

    Sinc, give everyone a “pussy hat” and a rainbow sash.

  103. Armadillo

    Should we be discussing what our daughters should be wearing to the debutant ball?

  104. Armadillo

    In my absence, I’ve been building a car to rival Arkys.

    I just don’t know how to post a photo.

  105. Armadillo

    I’ve also been building a mailbox.

  106. Armadillo

    Tom seems cranaky. Situation normal.

  107. Armadillo

    cranaky

    It’s a new “Cat Word” for when Tom gets “pissed off” because someone inadvertently (an innocently) interrupts his blatant and unapologetic plagiarism of other people’s work. It’s rather narky.

  108. Armadillo

    Mrs A informed me today that “Dusky” is no longer in the dictionary. When the hell did that happen?

  109. Mark A

    Armadillo
    #3152675, posted on September 11, 2019 at 4:28 am

    Mrs A informed me today that “Dusky” is no longer in the dictionary. When the hell did that happen?

    Which one?
    I use 3 different online dic. and they all list it

  110. Armadillo

    Apple and Microsoft need to lift their game.

    There are only so manny spelling errors that they persist in letting persist. Dumbing us down.

    (FFS: is “manny” even a word)

  111. Armadillo

    I use 3 different online dic. and they all list it

    She lied? I’m on to it.

  112. Armadillo

    You could build an entire suburb in the time it’s taken for Arky to build his car.

    It’s a Model A FFS. It’s like Lego.

  113. Armadillo

    Notice that he swears at it all the time? Not healthy.

  114. Mark A

    Armadillo
    #3152679, posted on September 11, 2019 at 4:47 am

    You could build an entire suburb in the time it’s taken for Arky to build his car.

    I don’t think he spent more than an hour a day actually working on it.
    Mostly just looking and deciding how best to do it.

  115. Mark A

    Anyway leave you to it, have to download my form guide and get ready to do battle in the morning .

  116. Armadillo

    Mostly just looking and deciding how best to do it.

    Like ordering one hubcap? Ordering 4 hubcaps isn’t that hard. I know he’s not Einstein, but it’s not that fucking difficult.

    Arky, figure out what “four” is in Cantonese rather than English.

  117. Armadillo

    Just say “sei”‘and don’t be an idiot about it.

  118. Armadillo

    Anyway leave you to it, have to download my form guide and get ready to do battle in the morning .

    Good luck. The Cat isn’t the forum for it, however, there is something in the Bible about “taking care of the bookmakers”. Or cake makers or something.

  119. Armadillo

    I’ve obviously upset Tom, so no toons today.

  120. Armadillo

    Collective punishment. Enjoy.

  121. Tom

    Sorry, folks. The Cat has again been hijacked by the resident look-at-me manic depressive.

  122. Armadillo

    Far from the mark, Tom.

    Very far.

  123. feelthebern

    Bill Burr’s new special on Netflix is pretty good.
    Solid laughing from me through out.
    Only a couple absolute high notes.
    Not fair for it to come out so close to Chappelle’s.
    Expectations have been re-set too high.

  124. feelthebern

    John Bolton gone.
    Good.

  125. Leigh Lowe

    John Bolton rissoled by the Great Orange One.
    IT will be pleased.
    As we all should be.
    One thing to be a hawk, but I reckon he is out of the Comey/Brennan/Clapper mould. That is, not content to be merely one of many advisers, but determined to “shape evidence” to get their desired outcome.

  126. feelthebern

    Been up all night with food poisoning.
    Feel about 2-3kgs lighter.

  127. Leigh Lowe

    Been up all night with food poisoning.
    Feel about 2-3kgs lighter.

    I just had a big greasy souvalaki with chips, backed up with a sticky date pudding.
    Hope this helps.

  128. feelthebern

    It does.
    I’ve already turned the corner & am now on the verge of feeling hungry.

  129. Bruce of Newcastle

    Been up all night with food poisoning.
    Feel about 2-3kgs lighter.

    Armadillo will do that to you.

  130. classical_hero

    Lazio, the cracking of the Enigma code was down to intelligence because they were to see certain patterns and found one of the biggest flaws in the code was the lack using the same letter. So that meant that they could rule out so many possibilities and use the resources better. The problem with evolution, as Dawkins says, is that it’s blind pitiless indifference. There is no guiding purpose to it which makes it harder to get complexity, which even the most simple lifeform has.

  131. Knuckle Dragger

    Well.

    There is a Remainer walking among us.

  132. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    When I started researching for that evolution debate, I thought I had chosen the far weaker side. Of course evolution is true.
    Then I started playing with the numbers.
    I did that without looking up other people’s work or googling the answers. I made my own model.
    I was blown away by how unlikely it all was, and when I looked up other people’s solutions I saw that even the evolutionists conceded it was a problem. Dawkins devotes about a half a paragraph to it in “The God Delusion” and seems to deliberately skate over it.

    did you take into account the functional evolution of proteins? proteins acting as motor units, proteins acting as finite state automata. complex proteins acting pretty close to turing machines? the evolution of functional units, dramatically shortcuts the explosive combinatiorialism.

  133. Knuckle Dragger

    I also see the endless debate is living up to its name.

  134. Farmer Gez

    More zero and below temps in the cropping areas struggling for moisture.
    Cold regularly does more damage than heat in plant production. I could name most of the years that heat damaged crops but I’ve lost count of the times that frost has kicked our arse.

  135. Bruce of Newcastle

    FTB needs to get some chicken parmigiana into him. Good bogan food.
    (A rare unpaywalled Blair post!)

  136. Top Ender

    No cartoons???

    Whoever has driven Tom away needs to be very careful.

    Very very careful.

    All day today.

  137. Bruce of Newcastle

    DH – I’m a fundamentalist Christian who’s been a scientist for over three decades. 😀

    I didn’t get into the debate last night, but I can say it is entirely consistent with the Bible…once you know what the Bible is saying. “Righteousness by faith alone” is the guiding principle.

    Incidentally which do you think is the key evolutionary step towards intelligence? I’ll tell you my answer after you tell me yours!

  138. Knuckle Dragger

    Over the previous evening and this morning, I have carefully absorbed all aspects of the discussion on evolution, various strains of Darwinism, materialism in all its forms and more recently the nuances of irreducible complexity, all naturally contextualised in the Universe’s genesis.

    The minutiae of each argumentative strand have been examined, and I have come to one logical conclusion – one which, if all the contributors had stopped and looked at the broader picture they would have realised is inescapable.

    Jessica Alba is still smoking hot.

  139. Farmer Gez

    Today I’m driving a bus full of kids to Melbourne for an event.
    Hours of crap music ahead.

  140. Bruce of Newcastle

    DH – Multicellular life. Over three billion years to get to that step means it’s a toughie.

    The universe is probably full of bacteria and not much more, because red dwarves have the lifetimes but not the stability for life and anything much hotter than a G2 like the Sun isn’t going to have the lifetime for that advance to take place, if it is so rare. You never know though.

  141. Knuckle Dragger

    Jesus Gez. You’re in charge of that particular rodeo.

    Blast them into submission by going 70kph down the highway with Meatloaf at concert level, drowning out their feeble screams for help until they pull their heads in.

  142. Robber Baron

    feelthebern
    #3152696, posted on September 11, 2019 at 6:18 am
    Been up all night with food poisoning.
    Feel about 2-3kgs lighter.

    I had what I thought was food poisoning last week. My niece thought it was a virus.

    Every time I thought I had expelled it out, then the next day it crept back taunting me with a bloated belly then forcing me to yell “ruth” into the toilet bowl. After much chundering I feel better, but my stomach endured much and is still tentative. It yearns for a souvlaki and chips.

    1 full kg has been removed from my 73kg frame.

    I blame the Global Table event. All the cheese, beer and prosciutto from the EU did it. Certainly couldn’t have been the “sustainable” mealworm or crickets I tried.

  143. Overburdened

    Re the debate about life.

    The archaic definition of the universe is the mass of solid bodies in space.

    Quantum physics reportedly came around because of the discovered immensity of the numbers in astrophysics. Both are beyond the human scale of understanding.

    Religion and speculation over time led to humans trying to find more evidence based ways of finding an explanation for why things are what they are.

    In the end all living things die.

    Don’t sweat it. Be grateful for the time you have.

    The time of humans will pass and I presume that life will go on.

    The importance people place on wanting to know why things are what they are is ultimately of no consequence to the passage of individual life cycles.

  144. Knuckle Dragger

    A sincere and hearty round of applause this morning to whoever selected Laura’s ensemble this morning on Sky. In particular her brassiere. Spectacular décolletage.

    Superb work, whoever you are. Superb.

  145. 1735099

    Trump: “Hey John, can you come in here a sec? Shut the door.”
    Bolton: “What can I do for you, Mr. President?”
    Trump: “John, I mustache you for your resignation.”

    The reality show continues………

  146. zyconoclast

    A community service announcement.

    Siberia (2018)
    Stars: Keanu Reeves, Boris Gulyarin, Ashley St. George

    Highly NOT recommended.

  147. Shy Ted

    Van Badham wants to save the world one tree at a time.. Not the books, of course, too important.

  148. Knuckle Dragger

    Liu says she can’t recall being a member of a CCP-sponsored organisation in this country for twelve years.

    Right.

    Forget………. forget………… forget…………..

  149. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    numbers, have you been told today? …. fuck off

  150. Zatara

    German Member Blasts the EU for Brexit

    Likely too little too late but refreshing to hear that someone not named Nigel understands the realities of the EU.

    Germany needs to wake up and install miss Alice as Prime Minister yesterday, if not sooner.

  151. Bruce of Newcastle

    Engineering is hazardous, especially in France.

    Married man’s death during sex on business trip ruled a ‘workplace accident’ (10 Sep)

    Engineer Xavier X was found dead in his hotel room in Meung-sur-Loire shortly after having sex with a local woman he’d just met, according to the Times of London.

    Lawyers for his bosses at the Parisian railroad construction company TSO insisted he was not performing duties when he had the heart attack — blaming the “adulterous sex act that he had had with a complete stranger,” according to the report.

    But appeals court judges ruled that an employee on assignment “is entitled to their employer’s protection for the duration of their mission … whether or not the accident takes place as part of a professional activity or as an act of normal life,” the report said.

    Obviously he was checking out a tunnel for structural integrity.

  152. Mother Lode

    Liu says she can’t recall being a member of a CCP-sponsored organisation in this country for twelve years.

    Has she said we have always been at war with Eurasia yet?

  153. Knuckle Dragger

    Yes Bruce, but that particular tunnel wasn’t certified at the time.

    Good to see the Frog courts, at least, give a sly nod to a bit of freelance engineering.

  154. Empire 5:5

    calli
    #3152342, posted on September 10, 2019 at 7:34 pm
    Were you part of an art installation, Empire?

    Or just the victim of a Big Night Out?

    Sorry – missed your question, Calli.

    I was a willing participant in the installation.

  155. calli

    Chrysler Imperials and hamburgers are not self-reproducing

    This is true. Yet random lone socks appear from nowhere, and over the incredibly short space of a single wash cycle.

    Thanks for the interesting overnight discussion. Glad I dropped in.

  156. Shy Ted

    Would you pay $12 to see this movie when you can wander round your local university or shopping centre for free?

  157. Mother Lode

    But appeals court judges ruled that an employee on assignment “is entitled to their employer’s protection for the duration of their mission

    What does that mean? That the employer can require the employee avoid sex – and any other strenuous activity like a sport.

    Could someone be fired for playing a game of squash in their free time on a business trip for breaching conditions to avoid anything which might result in injury?

    Or, which seems far more likely, the court considers that the employer has no power, but absolute responsibility?

    We had that case recently of that slatternly woman rutting in a hotel room injuring herself with a fixture and suing her employer because it was a business trip. I believe it was ultimately thrown out – though why it ever crossed the threshold of a court room is indictment enough of the justice system.

  158. Roger

    Liu says she can’t recall being a member of a CCP-sponsored organisation in this country for twelve years.

    With most of our politicians in thrall to the UN’s agenda this is small beer.

  159. pete m

    Top Ender
    #3152710, posted on September 11, 2019 at 7:09 am
    No cartoons???
    Whoever has driven Tom away needs to be very careful.
    Very very careful.
    All day today.

    That would be Tom. He needs to take a spoonful of harden the fuck up and don’t be so precious about being able to post his toons in isolation / in a row, as we all bow down before his greatness.

    Sure its cool for people and many appreciate it, but this isn’t his blog, and we’re all free to post whenever we like within blog rules.

    So if you are sad face about no tunes, look no further than Mr Precious himself.

  160. Top Ender

    Meanwhile, in the Uk, Corbyn, who just voted against having an election, sort of wants one, with the same old truckload of dud policies wheeled out:

    I’ve lost count of the number of these drab Corbyn speeches I’ve now sat through, and goodness they’re depressing.

    The general message is always the same: there’s no problem that can’t be solved by more government, more laws, more state intrusion.

  161. lotocoti

    Speaking of evolution, The Wealth Explosion looks like one to add to the reading list.
    (Within the comments, there’s a reminder that the Industrial Revolution didn’t truly kick off until the steam engine freed innovators from the vagaries of our new saviours, wind and water power.)

  162. Top Ender

    You can see where this will go:

    …appeals court judges ruled that an employee on assignment “is entitled to their employer’s protection for the duration of their mission

    So the employer can mandate, for the entire duration of your “work time”:

    – what you’ll eat

    – what you’ll drink

    – where, and with whom, you will sleep

    – what you’ll do leisure-wise – think of the dangers of computer games

    Should go down well with the Frogs overall.

  163. Bruce of Newcastle

    Speaking of art installations…

    Acting CBP Chief Tries to Explain Why Trump’s Border Wall Needs To be Painted Black: ‘It’s Common Sense

    Asked during a White House press conference whether he has any objections to Trump’s dictum to paint the roughly 450 miles of border wall black, even if it means having to forgo a few miles of wall to cover the cost, Morgan made clear that he did not.

    What happens to 450 miles of black painted steel in the summer sun in a desert? What a fine idea!

  164. Rafe Champion

    Jo Nova, the economy trumps climate change on the list of things that matter.

  165. Tel

    This is a very good sign that Trump has fired Bolton. It means that the only reason Bolton was hired in the first place was for Trump to have someone to bite the ankles of the Democrats and left-leaning deep staters who were attempting a coup against him.

    Getting rid of Bolton means that the coup has not only failed … but Trump is confident that it has failed and won’t be restarting any time soon. Hopefully Trump lives up to his reputation of always returning serve … and with luck at least some of the bastards will end up behind bars.

  166. Johno

    In the Beginning there was nothing. It exploded.

  167. mh

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #3152749, posted on September 11, 2019 at 8:22 am

    Trump is deliberately adding to global warming. Impeach!

  168. MatrixTransform

    Can you still impeach if he isn’t your president?

  169. Infidel Tiger

    Fantastic news that Trump has sacked Bolton.

    Should never have hired the swine in the first place.

    An evil war monger.

  170. mh

    Seems straightforward

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore…….I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning. I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week.

  171. Infidel Tiger

    Trump needs to exile Javanka now.

  172. mh

    John Bolton
    @AmbJohnBolton
    ·
    6h
    I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, “Let’s talk about it tomorrow.”

  173. Infidel Tiger

    Fired Bolton on 9/11. Great stuff.

    Now get out of Afghanistan and The Mid East completely please.

  174. Dr Faustus

    Jo Nova, the economy trumps climate change on the list of things that matter.

    Not for everyone.

    Coming today to a parliament near you: the Greens Climate Emergency declaration:

    The declaration motion to be released today calls on the House to declare an environment and climate emergency and to take urgent action consistent with internationally accepted science. The motion will be moved by Greens MP for Melbourne Adam Bandt, seconded by the independent member for Warringah Zali Steggall OAM, and supported by the independent member for Indi, Helen Haines, Centre Alliance member for Mayo, Rebekha Sharkie and the independent member for Clark, Andrew Wilkie.

    Bandt, Steggall OAM, Wilkie, Sharkie – “internationally accepted science“? Slam dunk.
    And, if you needed more independent convincing – Dr John Hewson.

  175. Bruce of Newcastle

    Hamburglars will soon be coming to fast food joints near us all, I suspect.

    Burger King Takes the ‘Ham’ Out of ‘Hamburgers’ to Avoid Offending Mu slims (via BCF)

    In a gesture of respect toward its Mu slim customers in South Africa, Burger King is dropping the word “ham” from the names of hamburgers on its South African menu.

    The practice will affect three items offered by the restaurant chain, the company said in a statement to Business Insider.

    The “Double Spicy Hamburger” will now be known simply as the “Double Spicy Burger.” The “Triple Hamburger with Cheese” is now the “Triple Burger with Cheese.” Meanwhile, the “Hamburger King Jr” will now be known as the “Kids Burger.”

    Bacon burgers will go extinct too. Can’t have the naughty stuff in the same kitchen as the good stuff.

  176. mh

    Now board games go woke. Michelle Malkin not impressed

    Michelle Malkin
    @michellemalkin
    “Ms. Monopoly:” Extra cash when you pass go. And instead of a Get Out of Jail card, women get to play Put ‘Em In Jail cards with false #MeToo allegations against men…then collect multi-million-dollar civil suits & book deals.
    https://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/1171420958529413120?s=20

  177. Dr Faustus

    In Fuck-me-dead-I-can’t-believe-it News:

    Britain has summoned Iran’s ambassador to London to accuse Tehran of “breaching assurances” that a tanker intercepted off Gibraltar would not deliver oil to Syria in violation of EU sanctions.

    Chortling Persians.

  178. feelthebern

    In an amazing turn of events, Pelosi is defending Bolton.
    Lol.

  179. cohenite

    Dapper Happer:

    Here is the generic lecture on irreducible complexity. First Behe takes an ambit claim describing the eye. Which is complexity but not necessarily irreducible complexity. He then goes to the most simple traditional mousetrap so show simplicity but irreducible simplicity. But then he goes to the sub-cellular flagellum. Which leaves people somewhat wonderstruck and shows how this linear view of improvement in evolution needs a lot more work.

    Irreducible complexity is the battle cry of Behe. Behe wrote Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution. As a household example of irreducible complexity, Behe choose the mousetrap—a machine that could not function if any of its pieces were missing and whose pieces have no value except as parts of the whole. What is true of the mousetrap, he says, is even truer of the bacterial flagellum, the cellular organelle used for propulsion that operates like an outboard motor. The proteins that make up a flagellum are arranged into motor components, a universal joint and other structures like those that a human engineer might specify. The possibility that this intricate array could have arisen through evolutionary modification is virtually nil, Behe argues, and that bespeaks intelligent design. He makes similar points about the blood’s clotting mechanism and other molecular systems.

    Yet evolutionary biologists have answers to these objections. First, there exist flagellae with forms simpler than the one that Behe cites, so it is not necessary for all those components to be present for a flagellum to work. The sophisticated components of this flagellum all have precedents elsewhere in nature, as described by Kenneth R. Miller of Brown University and others. In fact, the entire flagellum assembly is extremely similar to an organelle that Yersinia pestis, the bubonic plague bacterium, uses to inject toxins into cells. The key is that the flagellum’s component structures, which Behe suggests have no value apart from their role in propulsion, can serve multiple functions that would have helped favor their evolution.

    The final evolution of the flagellum might then have involved only the novel recombination of sophisticated parts that initially evolved for other purposes. Similarly, the blood-clotting system seems to involve the modification and elaboration of proteins that were originally used in digestion, according to studies by Russell F. Doolittle of the University of California at San Diego. So some of the complexity that Behe calls proof of intelligent design is not irreducible at all.

    Darwin and Einstein are the greatest of scientists; they have defined reality. But both are subject to philosophical objections which are inappropriate. Evolution is biologically sui juris. Asking why is a genuine line of enquiry but should not be confused for the legitimacy of the evolutionary mechanisms.

  180. Zatara

    Fired Bolton on 9/11. Great stuff.

    It’s still 9/10 in DC.

  181. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Democracy means you do things by the Parliament’.

    The Parliament which decided to give the people a vote on a matter, and which pledged to honour the result of that vote.

    Until the vote didn’t go the way Parliament expected. Hence the thtee-year backpedal, and the assurances made to the British public that they were morons and were too stupid to decide to leave an elite-centric continental rort.

    ‘agree with Churchill and play nice with the Parliament’

    Why? There’s no reason to go along with this at all.

  182. Mother Lode

    Bandt, Steggall OAM, Wilkie, Sharkie

    That miserable coterie – along with many of their colleagues – strike as the consummate amateurs: They are amateurs in every field of human endeavour. Most people become proficient in one, but that lot?

    Hewson is a different case. He is a bit like Cassandra from The Iliad. She had been granted the gift of prophecy but, for some infraction or other, it had been divinely decreed that no one would ever believe her. She foresaw the fall of Troy and the death and enslavement of her family. She knew it with absolute certainty but was equally powerless to prevent it. You can imagine the transports of desperation and deathly solitude of despair.

    Hewson’s curse is to be absolutely certain in his prophecies only to discover that no one believes him either – and as it turns out he is wrong anyway and everyone who dismissed him was right to do so.

    At least Cassandra was vindicated.

  183. C.L.

    I love how News Corp goes after a lowly agent of China in the Liberal Party but won’t talk about “Peking” Paul Keating. Makes you wonder if China is actually funding some of the denunciation of China.

  184. feelthebern

    The Brits need to realise that NYSE will get the secondary listing of Saudi Aramco.
    They need to stop doing what the Saudi’s ask them.
    They are embarrassing themselves.

  185. Zatara

    This one is a freebie for Trump as Bolton’s replacement doesn’t have to be approved by the Senate.

    I just hope he doesn’t pick a serving Congresscritter or Senator as that is a waste of an elected seat and a waste of the freebie.

  186. johanna

    Remember the bad old days when cheques took five days to clear, while the banks had an interest free lend of your money? I naively thought that the world of electronic transactions had killed that boondoggle. Not quite, it seems.

    I discovered yesterday that when you pay a Telstra account with a debit card at a Telstra shop, the money magically disappears for ‘up to 48 hours.’ You get a Telstra receipt, the money disappears from your account, but they don’t acknowledge receipt of the funds at head office for up to 48 hours.

    Not surprisingly, none of the poor sods who man their telephones could explain this conundrum. The only one I could get to say anything blamed the banks.

    All those little slivers taken from punters sure must add up for somebody. Not to mention the application of late fees by Telstra, who allegedly have not received the money that left your account two days ago.

    I try not to pay these bloodsuckers a day before I have to, but it seems they, and/or the banks, have found a way around that.

  187. feelthebern

    What a time to be alive.
    GWBush dances on Ellen.
    Pelosi defends Bolton.

    PS Tulsi twitter was quite good this morning.

  188. johanna

    Remember the bad old days when cheques took five days to clear, while the banks had an interest free lend of your money? I naively thought that the world of electronic transactions had killed that boondoggle. Not quite, it seems.

    I discovered yesterday that when you pay a Telstra account with a debit card at a Telstra shop, the money magically disappears for ‘up to 48 hours.’ You get a Telstra receipt, the money disappears from your account, but they don’t acknowledge receipt of the funds at head office for up to 48 hours.

    Not surprisingly, none of the poor sods who man their telephones could explain this conundrum. The only one I could get to say anything blamed the banks.

    All those little slivers taken from punters sure must add up for somebody. Not to mention the application of late fees by Telstra, who allegedly have not received the money that left your account two days ago.

    I try not to pay these bloodsuckers a day before I have to, but it seems they, and/or the banks, have found a way around that.

  189. C.L.

    Reports are saying that in addition to the warmongering, Trump never liked Bolton’s moustache.

  190. Dr Faustus

    Clean energy investment falling: report

    Clean Energy Council CEO Kane Thornton fears future investments will drop off without a new target, which could lead to higher power prices and risk the reliability of electricity.

    “Investors have been forced to balance their record enthusiasm for Australian wind and solar projects with a lack of national policy, growing threats of government interference in the energy market and a range of out-of-date regulations,” he said.

    “With Australia’s coal-fired power stations ageing rapidly, it is essential new clean energy projects are built now to ensure lower power prices and improved reliability when these old clunkers retire from service.”

    Faaark: it’s essential that we give investment certainty on the thieves pipeline of 15%+ ROI renewables projects – or we might experience expensive unreliable electricity.

    Australia: World class Dadaist performance art…

  191. egg_

    Multicellular life. Over three billion years to get to that step means it’s a toughie.

    Nailed it.

    Genome-driven cell engineering review: in vivo and in silico metabolic and genome engineering

    Producing ‘designer cells’ with specific functions is potentially feasible in the near future. Recent developments, including whole-cell models, genome design algorithms and gene editing tools, have advanced the possibility of combining biological research and mathematical modelling to further understand and better design cellular processes. In this review, we will explore computational and experimental approaches used for metabolic and genome design. We will highlight the relevance of modelling in this process, and challenges associated with the generation of quantitative predictions about cell behaviour as a whole: although many cellular processes are well understood at the subsystem level, it has proved a hugely complex task to integrate separate components together to model and study an entire cell. We explore these developments, highlighting where computational design algorithms compensate for missing cellular information and underlining where computational models can complement and reduce lab experimentation. We will examine issues and illuminate the next steps for genome engineering.

  192. cohenite

    Under the current cosmology people think of primates as a key ancestor of ours. Under rational cosmology it might be that this little guy

    https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tardigrade.jpg

    I’m happy with that. I’m sure a few posters here are just a generation or 2 removed.

  193. stackja

    C.L.
    #3152784, posted on September 11, 2019 at 9:18 am

    Straight bat to the bowler.

  194. Knuckle Dragger

    I SAID, Jessica Alba is smoking hot.

  195. Anthony

    Gee, I wonder how many pedos confess their sins in the confessional.
    Would none be close?

  196. mh

    Geoff Boycott – play of the day!

    Even threw a pro Brexit comment in for good measure.

  197. C.L.

    The SMH reports that a “Christian academic” advising the Federal government says religious schools should be free to adhere strictly to scientific reality:

    Religious schools should be allowed to deny the ‘new’ gender identity of students, expert says.

    Religious schools should be free to not accept the “new” gender identity of a child who wants to transition, a family law expert who has worked as a federal government adviser says.

    Christian academic Professor Patrick Parkinson said for teachers to automatically affirm a child’s wish to transition to another gender may be as harmful to the child as it would be to affirm the distorted “overweight” self-image of a teenage girl with anorexia.

    Several paragraphs in, Jacqueline Maley gives Professor Parkinson is given his actual job title (which isn’t “Christian academic”); he’s the Dean of the University of Queensland law school. His resume speaks for itself.

  198. egg_

    Meat replacement products are full of salt and heavily processed?
    /ABC TV News

  199. egg_

    Pwong wants Liu to answer Parliament?

    Labya’s top Chink attack dog speaks.

  200. 1735099

    The Parliament which decided to give the people a vote on a matter, and which pledged to honour the result of that vote.

    Problem was, they didn’t define how they would deal with the result of the “matter”.
    Suppose we had a plebiscite with the question – “Should all cancer be cured?”
    No doubt there’d be an overwhelming “yes” vote.

  201. Infidel Tiger

    Bolton’s desire to invade Iran and Venezuela now on ice.

    Great stuff. Nothing pleases me more than the way Trump screws with these guys.

  202. 1735099

    Sir Geoffrey Boycott to BBC lady: “I don’t give a toss, love”.

    She should have responded – “I’m not your ‘love’; you silly old prick”.

  203. Delcon

    After the Gladys Liu interview on Bolta and recent terrorist attacks, I can’t see anything wrong with: putting a temporary halt on our immigration program; soon after, restarting the immigration program, but completely excluding Muslims and Chinese until further notice.

  204. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    The final evolution of the flagellum might then have involved only the novel recombination of sophisticated parts that initially evolved for other purposes.

    Thanks Cohenite for the whole of your piece above. I am amazed that people are so taken in by the ‘biochemical complexity can’t evolve’ argument.

    Yea for Darwin and Einstein. I’m with them. 🙂

    —————————-

    Stayed up too late last night enjoining an argument that has been had here so often before.
    Waste of time. Got up too late to make my dance class. Rats!

    Yesterday’s movie of ‘Little Women’ which I saw with ten girlfriends in a gaggle was a modern-day take on the original story. The original, an American iconic novel, had a lot of character development re a group of middle class young sisters brought up in rather straightened but completely genteel circumstances during the American Civil War, with an endlessly understanding mother and a father absent at the front.

    Yesterday’s iteration, set in a not-at-all straightened middle-class preppy America, flash-backed from the key heroine Jo’s grappling with the patriarchy attending writers’ school at Columbia Uni to the days of yore when all four sisters were young teens, play-acting in the attic, videoing their secret world, which included the young man from next door. Same character-types in the sisters and the yoof, same plot. Marnie the mum is all cookie-cutter nice, Dad’s in Afghanistan doctoring the troops, Amy is a pre-teen femme who burns Jo’s written magnum opus but is reconciled to Jo by falling off her horse, Meg is an ambitious girlie wife-to-be who almost gets led stray at the school Prom, and Beth is the dopey one who dies of a lingering illness. Boy-next-door makes it to Stanford, Jo loses out on Oxford and goes for second best living with wealthy kookie Aunt March (looking like Dorothy Hewett at her worst) in New York while at Columbia, and the tale is told through various Christmas reunions, the American Christmas extravaganza redux.

    It had a few tender moments, but was mostly not all that good. A true Chickflix. Overacted, over-staged and now over here. At the start it was fairly dreadful, and I was greatly afeared that the American iconic heroine, Jo the slightly tomboy girl who loved the boy next door but only in a brotherly sort of way, was going to be turned into a lesbian at the least, and quite possibly a full-on transgenderer. She waltzed around the issues a bit, saying she’d always felt like a boy, and that she wanted to dress like one, which she did with unisex styles as the movie unfolded. Thankfully, the producers and writers didn’t go the last step and take the alphabet risk of LGBTI. They did the right thing by the original plot, marrying her off to the one man on the Columbia Faculty of Patriarchy who had faith in women and in Jo.

  205. egg_

    the entire flagellum assembly is extremely similar to an organelle that Yersinia pestis, the bubonic plague bacterium, uses to inject toxins into cells. The key is that the flagellum’s component structures, which Behe suggests have no value apart from their role in propulsion, can serve multiple functions that would have helped favor their evolution.

    Doesn’t Behe argue that the flagellum motor preceded the Yersinia pestis organelle?
    That’s not Evolutionists’ silver bullet.
    Behe is also an atheist IIRC?
    /Laslo’s arguments last night.

  206. Some History

    Here’s a beaut.

    Plonker in action.

    What If We Stopped Pretending?
    The climate apocalypse is coming. To prepare for it, we need to admit that we can’t prevent it.

    As a non-scientist, I do my own kind of modelling. I run various future scenarios through my brain, apply the constraints of human psychology and political reality, take note of the relentless rise in global energy consumption (thus far, the carbon savings provided by renewable energy have been more than offset by consumer demand), and count the scenarios in which collective action averts catastrophe.

    …overwhelming numbers of human beings, including millions of government-hating Americans, need to accept high taxes and severe curtailment of their familiar life styles without revolting. They must accept the reality of climate change and have faith in the extreme measures taken to combat it.

    In this respect, any movement toward a more just and civil society can now be considered a meaningful climate action. Securing fair elections is a climate action. Combatting extreme wealth inequality is a climate action. Shutting down the hate machines on social media is a climate action. Instituting humane immigration policy, advocating for racial and gender equality, promoting respect for laws and their enforcement, supporting a free and independent press, ridding the country of assault weapons—these are all meaningful climate actions.

    RTWT

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-if-we-stopped-pretending

  207. stackja

    Little Women (1933 film)
    From Wikipedia

    Cast

    Katharine Hepburn as Josephine “Jo” March
    Joan Bennett as Amy March
    Frances Dee as Margaret “Meg” March
    Jean Parker as Elizabeth “Beth” March
    Spring Byington as Marmee March
    Douglass Montgomery as Theodore “Laurie” Laurence
    Paul Lukas as Professor Bhaer
    Edna May Oliver as Aunt March
    Henry Stephenson as Mr. Laurence
    John Davis Lodge as Brooke
    Samuel S. Hinds as Mr. March
    Nydia Westman as Mamie
    Harry Beresford as Doctor Bangs
    Mabel Colcord as Hannah
    Marion Ballou as Mrs. Kirke

  208. Geriatric Mayfly

    It sure is, but how did we get life from non-life?
    Now that is the question.

    92 elements, always was and always will be. This is where my humble contemplations of the universe become too hard and end with a question that has no answer. How did basic matter come to internalise itself and investigate its own components, as the human brain is more than capable of doing?

  209. John Constantine

    https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/cartel-to-gas-stations-dont-sell-fuel-to-security-forces/

    Latin American cartels and Latin American politicians.

    “Gold or Lead”.

    Australian politicians, of course, would never go past the offer of gold, so would never hear the threat of the bullet.

    With Latin American cartels running half billion dollar drug shipments into australia already, it is to be suspected that the bribery and corruption of politicals in this country has already started.

    Importing mass numbers of Latin Americas poorest people into a Cartel dominated diaspora plantation in australias cities. Good return on investment for the druglords.

  210. Bruce of Newcastle

    Evolution is operating at a furious pace at Cafe Bruce.

    The northern magpies have their nest about 200m away, in a tree which has a good view my backyard. So when I go out the female, who is sitting on eggs, zooms down. This morning she was bouncing like a small kid with ADHD, very keen to get back to the nest as soon as possible. So I put the meat on my sleeve, and sure enough she jumped onto my arm for the first time ever. A win!

    But the ones most likely to give rise to a whole new species are the southern magpies. They come to the front yard. The old female died a couple weeks after her eggs hatched last year, so Mr Magpie roped in his two daughters of the previous season to help him raise her three chicks. Which was successful – all three graduated and have flown off. The daughters have stayed…

    It’ll be interesting to see what happens. Mr Magpie seems quite happy with the new arrangement, as do the two females. Love is love. Will the offspring have two heads? I should name him Lot.

  211. Some History

    Thus spake Greta™

    Teen Climate Activist Greta Thunberg: Shame “Those Who Need Shaming,” Get “Out Of Your Comfort Zone”

    At 16, climate activist Greta Thunberg has been called the greatest threat to the world’s fossil fuel industry. The teenager first made headlines last year with her solitary strike against climate change outside Sweden’s parliament – since then, she’s inspired millions of supporters to rally in more than 150 countries. Thunberg joins “CBS This Morning” for her first live U.S. television interview.

    Thunberg will be speaking at the UN’s Climate Action Summit in New York later this month to tell world leaders they must “step out of their comfort zone.”

    “By ‘panic,’ I don’t mean literally panic,” she said. “But they step out of their comfort zone because the planet is outside its comfort zone and we also need to be outside of our comfort zone to prevent the worst consequences from happening. What I want people to do now is to become aware of the crisis that is here.”

    “I tell the world leaders when I speak to them, and I tell them how it is, how I, the science, and how it looks like,” she added.

    She said she wants to shame “those who need shaming.”

    “It’s what I have been doing for quite a while now, and it actually has a lot of impact when you speak truth to power, when you don’t bother to be polite because this is such a serious crisis, and you cannot — we cannot — focus on what we can or cannot say. Now we must speak clearly about what is happening,” she continued.

    “I just know what is right and I want to do what is right. I want to make sure I have done anything, everything in my power to stop this crisis from happening, to prevent it.”

    “I have Asperger’s, I’m on the autism spectrum, so I don’t really care about social codes,” she added. “It makes you think differently. Especially in a big crisis like this one, we need to think outside the box, we need to think outside our current system, we need people who think outside the box and who aren’t like everyone else.”

    “I think that once you fully understand the climate and ecological emergencies, then you know what you can do as well,” she stated. “And, of course, there’s a lot of things you can do in your everyday life, but we cannot be focusing on these individual things you can do. We have to see the full picture.”

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/10/teen_climate_activist_greta_thunberg_shame_those_who_need_shaming.html

  212. egg_

    The declaration motion to be released today calls on the House to declare an environment and climate emergency and to take urgent action consistent with internationally accepted science. The motion will be moved by Greens MP for Melbourne Adam Bandt, seconded by the independent member for Warringah Zali Steggall OAM, and supported by the independent member for Indi, Helen Haines, Centre Alliance member for Mayo, Rebekha Sharkie and the independent member for Clark, Andrew Wilkie.

    Windmills for Warringah now!

  213. C.L.

    That Highway Patrol show last night featured two young adult males pinched for a bald tyre.
    Policeman waited in his car behind them as they tried to put on the spare.
    Neither of them knew how to do it.

  214. Some History

    The UN has lots of Truth™

    Climate crisis is greatest ever threat to human rights, UN warns

    Rights chief Michelle Bachelet highlights role in civil wars
    ‘The world has never seen a threat to human rights of this scope’

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/09/climate-crisis-human-rights-un-michelle-bachelet-united-nations

  215. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Indigenous group dispute blocking major highway duplication

    Rachel Baxendale
    VICTORIAN POLITICAL REPORTER
    @rachelbaxendale
    12:00AM September 11, 2019
    17 Comments

    A bitter dispute between indigenous groups over trees that stand to be bulldozed to make way for Victoria’s Western Highway duplication is threatening to derail the Andrews government’s signature policy of negotiating a treaty with traditional owners.

    Chanting “no trees, no treaty”, a group of up to 500 protesters — led by Djab Wurrung elder Sandra Onus and former Greens MP and Gunnai-Kurnai and Gunditjmara woman Lidia Thorpe — marched on state parliament on Tuesday, calling on the government to re-route the planned road to save centuries-old “birthing” trees they argue are sacred.

    Meanwhile, indigenous bodies including Aboriginal Victoria, the ­Federation of Victorian Tradition­al Owner Corporations and the Victorian Aboriginal Heritage Council said they were satisfied all cultural heritage affecte­d by the road duplication would be “appropriately protected and managed”, and called on the protesters to “stop undermining the decision-making process” and allow the project to proceed.

    Activists set up camp at the site, between Buangor and Ararat, in June last year, staging an ongoing protest at the “Djab Wurrung Heritage Protection Embassy”, which has delayed construction ever since.

    Ms Thorpe told the rally the loss of the 800-year-old Djab Wurrung trees amounted to “cultural­ genocide”. Destroying the trees “destroys us”, she said, warning that it would also jeopardise­ treaty negotiations between traditional owner groups and the Victorian government.

    In June, the government’s Victorian Treaty Advancement Commission was forced to extend­ the deadline for its First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria election process by 11 weeks, after too few candidates nominated. With voting set to begin next Monday, Ms Thorpe said only 2000 people of an eligible 35,000 had enrolled to vote, and she and other traditional owners were considering withdrawing as candidates.

    From the Oz. “No trees, no treaty.” Hindmarsh Island and “secret women’s business?”

  216. dover_beach

    Thanks Cohenite for the whole of your piece above. I am amazed that people are so taken in by the ‘biochemical complexity can’t evolve’ argument.

    Not at all . I’m amazed that people attempt to explain the emergence of life by relying on processes that that are themselves in question.

  217. John of Mel

    Lazlo

    #3152477, posted on September 10, 2019 at 10:11 pm
    If you are unable to attribute something to a rational cause, then it must be due to some extrinsic design and planning, a God, a Gaia, whatever.

    Well, if God really created everything, including you, then he is rational by definition. You can think rationally, and you’re created in the image of God.
    There is not really much of “hard-science” prove of the theory of evolution (natural selection isn’t it – the result always produced within a kind). As soon as you apply some real honest thinking without an objective to dismiss a rational, intelligent creator from the get-go (and that is the primary objective of the theory of evolution), it all starts to fall apart.
    For starters, there are no good arguments against irreducible complexity. Then there is the information theory, mathematical impossibilities, fossil records (eg. soft tissue in dinosaurs fossils) and many other solid arguments.

  218. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    No cartoons???
    Whoever has driven Tom away needs to be very careful.
    Very very careful.
    All day today.
    That would be Tom. He needs to take a spoonful of harden the fuck up

    Give Tom a break, ffs. Maybe he’s not well.
    Maybe he’s in bed with a gorgeous girl and thus busy.
    Maybe he’s fed up with something about posting here, so what?

    A lot of us look forward to Tom’s re-arrival as Herald of the Morning.
    And thank him for his service to date.

  219. egg_

    https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Tardigrade.jpg

    Nematodes are little more than an intestinal tract – and there are mites with no anus.

  220. John Constantine

    Now that top level vikpol is openly seen to have submitted to the role of enforcer of the political agenda of the andrews satrapy, where does it end?.

    When top level vikpol simply comply with orders to transform the police into diversity querty wymynsys political critique units it is one thing.

    When the orders to go ‘ hands off’ political donors are obeyed by vikpol force command without question, that is sickening.

    How can chicom secret police operate in melbourne with impunity?. How can corrupt chicom peoples liberation army landsharks throw up dogbox developments so unfit for purpose that the State has to spend a billion dollars bailing them out, no questions asked?.

    How can the Latin American cartels just walk into the city?.

    Looks like vikpol is too busy using the OBOR funded chicom secret police dissenter identification programs to crush football fans that yell out ” Bald headed Flog” at umpires.

    There can be no escape valve from The Narrative.

    Comrades.

  221. mh

    Ben Garrison

    GrrrGraphics Cartoons
    @GrrrGraphics
    Oops.
    Bolton, you’re fired!
    https://twitter.com/GrrrGraphics/status/1171528537301377025?s=20

  222. dover_beach

    Cohenite, re Moliere’s jibe, if you ask me if I know of any substances that can help you get to slee,p and I answer, yes, opium has ‘dormative powers’ that isn’t a tautology. It is useful information about opium per se.

  223. feelthebern

    Garrison draws DT about 20kgs underweight.

  224. John Constantine

    Their abc backed Stalinist independents operating as a block in parliment.

    Taxpayer funded to demand more taxpayer funds.

    Gotta love legal australian corruption.

    Seriously, if you don’t love it at gunpoint, they will take your social credit rating.

    Comrades.

  225. Roger

    Teen Climate Activist Greta Thunberg: Shame “Those Who Need Shaming”

    Whatever Greta or her parents know or think, her eco-mob increases the likelihood of legislation and investment that will make colossal profits for people like Global Challenge, We Don’t Have Time and Sustainable Energy Angels. For Sweden’s energy titans, saving the planet means government contracts to print the green stuff. Green energy lobbyists use populist scare tactics and a children’s crusade to bypass elected representatives, but their goal is technocracy not democracy, profit not redistribution. Greta, a child of woke capitalism, is being used to ease the transition to green corporatism.

    The web of lies behind Greta’s rise is quite complicated and the stakes are huge.

  226. Bruce of Newcastle

    Climate crisis is greatest ever threat to human rights, UN warns

    Yesterday there was an article about the UN appointing Maduro to the Human Rights Council.
    Slight dissonance…

    The UN Is About To Elect Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro To The UN Human Rights Council Because Of Course They Are (8 Sep)

    Maybe they can ban zoo animals before we have to eat their Gaia-destroying flesh.

  227. egg_

    How did basic matter come to internalise itself and investigate its own components, as the human brain is more than capable of doing?

    Even amongst Philosophers there appears to be a Leftwing/Rightwing divide over Evolution/Intelligent Design – one the Evolutionists is postiting that consciousness consists of micro emotions.
    Looks like collectivists are arguing for complexity/cooperation with no overarching controls – probably where DH says they bump into Cosmological arguments, who are now looking at information theory (we live in the Information Age).
    Hence, Arky’s video upthread.

  228. Old School Conservative

    we need to think outside the box

    Yes Greta.
    Including the search for a new phrase; your use of an overworked, now humdrum, meaningless piety shows that even you aren’t capable of any creativity.

  229. egg_

    How will Krikkit evolve – limited overs to get rid of old mens dinosaur Krikkit?

  230. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Zali Steggall: I still can’t afford an electric car

    Richard Ferguson
    Reporter
    @RichAFerguson
    9 minutes ago September 11, 2019
    93 Comments

    Independent MP Zali Steggall says she has not yet fulfilled her promise of changing to an electric vehicle, and says she would “appreciate” if the government made EVs cheaper.

    Ms Steggall came under pressure during her ultimately successful campaign to unseat Tony Abbott for having a gas-guzzling car while advocating for climate action.

    As she prepared to push for parliament to declare a “climate emergency”, Ms Steggall said she could still not afford an EV, but committed to ultimately getting one.

    “I like every other Australian have budget pressures, mortgage pressures,” she told Sky News.

    “I would really welcome the government taking some steps to make EVs more affordable so I could accelerate the process in which I could transfer my car.

    From the Oz. The Government should do something about making electric cars cheaper…

  231. How did basic matter come to internalise itself and investigate its own components, as the human brain is more than capable of doing?

    Or what are the odds of the cosmos (stardust) producing an organism that contemplates the creation of the cosmos?

    h/t Michio Kaku

  232. Mother Lode

    and there are mites with no anus.

    I expect they are talking shit.

  233. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    There is not really much of “hard-science” prove of the theory of evolution (natural selection isn’t it – the result always produced within a kind).

    There is a lot of theory-supporting phylogenetic evidence of various sorts.
    Go and read up some more. Here’s a bit of an idiot’s guide to the eye, for instance.
    Don’t just do it with animal life. Do it for the Plant Kingdom too.
    Phylogenesis originates from the primordial swamp. Start there.
    Sort out some basics for animal life, like vertebrates vs invertebrates, the persistence of pentadactyly, ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, and a few thousand other classificatory observables, including eyes, blood, tissues and here we go – the arrival of sexual reproduction and the possibility of rampant runaway sexual selection added to the evolutionary mix. Then become a biochemist and turn your thoughts to biochemical combinatory mechanisms and wonder how much mathematicians numbering probabilities really understand what may have gone on there. Then turn your thoughts to DNA and sit at the feet of genetics.

  234. notafan

    Zali Zali Zali

    Think outside the box.

    You don’t ‘need’ a car at all.

  235. Shy Ted

    Sir Geoffrey Boycott to BBC lady: “I don’t give a toss, love”. “Love”, “duck” and similar are the Yorkshire equivalents of “mate”. Don’t worry numbers, no one will ever call you “love”. Sir Geoffrey is still a Yorkshire icon decades after his retirement.
    Naturally, you forgot the context – a disputed domestic violence claim .
    Boycott denied the allegations, saying Miss Moore had slipped after flying into a rage when he refused to marry her.
    If I had $1 for every time a woman has flown into a rage after I’ve refused to marry them I’d be a rich man.

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