Hooroo Gurus

Incredible scenes at Ayers Rock today as hundreds of people from around Australia and the world line up five-wide to ascend the beloved monolith before a climbing ban comes into force tomorrow. I don’t have the expertise to comment usefully on how “sacred” the rock is to the local Aborigines and certainly have no wish to gratuitously mock their beliefs. But here’s a prediction: the climbers will be back and they’ll be welcomed. The ban is a Karl Stefanovic goodbye: a highly publicised rupture that creates both huge interest in what’s been relinquished and a compelling economic imperative for restoration. Safety and behavioural protocols will have to be stricter to protect lives, limbs and sensibilities. Aboriginal overseers will need training and a fee per trek imposed. After that, off you go. This was as much about control as it was about sacrality. If planned all along, my compliments to the initiators on their commercial acumen. Good luck.

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74 Responses to Hooroo Gurus

  1. mh

    Australians must never get brainwashed into thinking this rock can never be climbed again.

    The law must and will be changed.

  2. JohnJJJ

    Basic sales technique. Drive up demand.

  3. The old elders whom have passed on said the rock is not the sacred site, it’s certain caves around the rock and it was ok to climb it.

  4. Tintarella di Luna

    I suspect it’s accidental commerciality rather than a cunning plan

  5. I’ve climbed it twice, back in the 80s. All the arguments for closing it are bullshit and I hope it comes back to bite them with a massive drop in tourism.

    Might as well close of all the other surrounding areas as well. Surely they too must be sacred and not to be trodden on by white fella.

  6. a reaDER

    Adam Giles predicted on Credlin recently that it would reopen in 18 months, probably run by the people who do Bridge Climb

  7. Petros

    If it reopens then they look like liars with no scruples. May not bother them of course.

  8. Tintarella di Luna

    I climbed The Rock in 1977 flew in a dawn magnificent sight and site not a thing around just a corrugated iron little shed selling a few postcards and a few T-shirts some said I climbed the Rock others said I didn’t climb the Rock the Sunbather has this one-diversity is our strength

  9. struth

    Sorry curruncy lad but you are way off.
    It will not open again as it was closed by Parks Australia who, as publc servants, will not lose a cent
    The corruption and rot is so deep around the rock and Yulara and indeed the NT and Australia it willnot open again.
    On the contrary acactivists will now close other sites as they have already done in many areas…..especially the Kimberleys.

  10. struth

    I was working with a left wng tour guide at the rock…….I kid you not when I say you must be left wing or submit to leftism to get accreditation there and we had this little conversation privately.
    Me.
    This closure, most of the black fellas wouldn’t care either way.
    Him.
    Maybe they do but they didn’t expect this win.

    Me.
    That’s if you consider Parks Australia closing the climb a win for aboriginals

  11. Steve

    One does wonder at how many of the “don’t climb the sacred rock” brigade have climbed St. Pauls or St. Peters or even touched Stonehenge back in the day and didn’t give a rat’s.

  12. C.L.

    Yes, but Parks Australia do the bidding of what the local Aborigines decide they want. Closure trolling is just a passing fad.
    The idea that it will never be climbed again is, of course, complete nonsense.

  13. struth

    No they don’t CL.
    They do not do the bidding of the aborigines at all.

  14. struth

    If they did the bidding of the local aborigines they’d permanently running to the grog shop and for smokes.
    They tell those people what to want.

    Local abos?
    Most of the so called elders are from Sydney unis.

  15. notafan

    Anyone who has gone inside any church as a tourist is on par with the climbing of the alleged sacred Ayers Rock

    they don’t need to have climbed a tower

    and unlike AA’s rocks churches were built by men for a sacred purpose

    at best those claiming trees hills rocks water holes are re-purposing nature

    and quite frankly I don’t believe the half if it

    The Ganges is a sacred river

  16. struth

    Aboriginals used to climb the rock.
    I’ve seen kids swimming in Maggie Springs.

  17. C.L.

    The trouble there, notafan, is that historical churches tout for profane sticky-beaks. They need the money. The Sistine Chapel was close to wrecked by tourists.

    If they did the bidding of the local aborigines they’d permanently running to the grog shop and for smokes.
    They tell those people what to want.

    I think that’s an overstatement. Obviously there is a school of thought amongst Aborigines that closure trolling is good for their cause and the public servants have been very receptive to that. You can’t grow your bailiwick by closing all of it. That’s why I say it’s a passing fad.

  18. struth

    It’s not an overstatement at all CL
    The community at the rock is as drug and alcohol ridfled shit hole as any f them.
    That’s why you are not allowed near it or to fly over it.
    Whatever PA is doing has SFA to do with the wishes of local people.

  19. notafan

    The trouble there, notafan, is that historical churches tout for profane sticky-beaks. They need the money. The Sistine Chapel was close to wrecked by tourists.

    That is true where there is a fee to enter C L but in Catholic churches that is very rare

    Florence has two such, the Siena Duomo , The Sistine Chapel are part of the very few I can think of that charge a fee, the rest are free.

    I guess my point is still that there is no difference to ‘climbing’ a rock that walking and gawking inside a church

  20. notafan

    The royal chapel in Granada is another though the main Cathedral is free afaik

  21. C.L.

    PA’s decision was made only after a decision made by the “traditional owners” – the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park board. The board also stipulated (in 2010) that climbing wouldn’t be banned if tourist numbers were likely to fall sharply because of it.

  22. candy

    I’m not sure it was a commercial decision but just pressure from activists, leading up to more pressure regarding treaties and more ownership/custodianship of lands by the indig. In fact, I would think it worrisome. Reconciliation will never happen.

  23. BrettW

    Never been there but presumably there will be a drop in tourists.

    Does this mean Parks Oz won’t be needing as many staff and if so will there be cuts to their jobs ?

    How about the resort that I believe is heavily subsidised and employs lots of locals. Anybody losing their jobs there ?

  24. JB of Sydney/Shanghai

    Struth, my memory is not that good, but I seem to remember being told by a bloke at Curtin Springs Roadhouse, about 1991, that the Aboriginal people at the Rock came from Docker River.
    It might have been Peter Severin.

    Any information about this?

  25. Roger

    The old elders whom have passed on said the rock is not the sacred site, it’s certain caves around the rock and it was ok to climb it.

    Tolerant fellows.

    Unlike Marcia Langton, who today invoked a curse on the last climbers. Seriously.

  26. Roger

    Btw, the elders whom Bob Hawke gave oversight over the rock to promised not to end the climb.

    That was a condition Hawke sought prior to the hand over.

  27. sfw

    I was a tour guide in the 70’s we did Ayres Rock most trips. Been up it at least 22 times, wet, raining, stinking hot. windy and fine weather. Never had a problem with anyone getting up or down, sometimes had to walk people down the steeper section but that’s all. I used to often talk with the local aboriginals including a few very old men. None of them ever worried about people climbing it. They didn’t want people going near two (three?) of the caves at the base and I never went near those caves and neither did any of the other tour guides as far as I know.

    It’s all bullshit, done to appease those who will never be appeased.

  28. Dr Fred Lenin

    I agree the rock should not be climbed ,all those feet would wear it away in a few thousand years ,there are plenty of other things to do there ,like ? ,mmmmmh er um .well looking at dot paintings and umh er well other amusements .
    Ive got it , a casino ,built with taxpayers money ,getting huge profits to buy Victoria Bitter for the thirsty owners ,that would work .

  29. Dr Fred Lenin

    We could use it as a quarry for road metal and concrete aggregate ? That would employ hundreds of locals with crowbars and sledge hammers ,with wheelbrrows for transport ,save a lot of welfare money .
    Climate scammers and corrupt politicians could be sent there for rehab and reconcilliation . Put it to good use and public benefit . As for comparing climbing it to climbing St Peters ,bullshit ,St peters is man nade ,the rock was put there by the great serpent ,or is it fossilised serpent turd ?

  30. FelixKruell

    Ordinarily, the drop in tourist numbers (and associated revenue) that will undoubtedly come after the climb is closed would eventually cause a reversal of course – a reopening. But I predict not here. Instead, the government will be cajoled into providing more transitional assistance or ‘investment’ to make up any revenue lost.

    If you are going to claim that entirely natural phenomena like rocks (or beaches) are sacred, you’re going to have to come to terms with other people not respecting those phenomena in the same way you do, and instead enjoying them in other ways. That is the correct analogy – not man-made sites like churches or war memorials.

  31. notafan

    If you are going to claim that entirely natural phenomena like rocks (or beaches) are sacred, you’re going to have to come to terms with other people not respecting those phenomena in the same way you do, and instead enjoying them in other ways. That is the correct analogy – not man-made sites like churches or war memorials.

    exactly

  32. Gab

    Also known in marketing as a stunt to drive demand.

  33. Clam Chowdah

    So now that we can no longer climb Uluru, out of respect, I imagine the tent embassy will be packing up and leaving. You know, out of respect.

  34. Roger

    I don’t have the expertise to comment usefully on how “sacred” the rock is to the local Aborigines and certainly have no wish to gratuitously mock their beliefs.

    To the best of my knowledge the local indigenous folk are mostly Christian. If it is like other parts of central Australia, after initially trying to stamp out animism, the missionaries permitted the indigenous folk to keep their stories and associated rituals as the lore provided a sort of law which kept the society functional.

  35. struth

    CL.
    I just flew into Adelaide and saw a “news” bulletin about the rock climb with TO’s who , compared to the locals were white.
    This is the point I’m trying to make.
    Do you know who the TO’s are?

    And yes Peter Severin would know.

    Check out a book that was banned when they started this bullshit from the first Ranger at the rock, Bill Harney banned at the rock.

  36. Siegfried

    I dont have a problem with the “local Aborigines” deciding to close access to the rock.. its their property remember, we gave it away! They can do what they like with private(community) property… I haven’t climbed it, likely now never will, but as far as I’m concerned they can take it and shove it up their clacker, … I wont be going there just to see it… and wont now recommend to overseas friends.

  37. Clam Chowdah

    Yeah. It’s just a fucking rock.

  38. Whalehunt Fun

    Just paint some swastikas on the thing and declare it a sacred site for white supremecists. That should get some international press coverage.

  39. None

    Mock the rock.
    Don’t flock to the rock.
    Put a sock in the crock.

  40. Peter Greagg

    Don’t forget the local aborigines only arrived at the Rock in the 1920s.
    Hardly a long association with it.

  41. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    None? Good to see you back.

  42. Alan

    “This was as much about control as it was about sacrality.” Absolutely.
    This is just the beginning. First they came for the rock. Next they will fight for the beaches.
    There is a current High Court case listed for hearing on 3 Dec 2019.

    What’s it about?
    “High Court to determine Aboriginal right to exclude public from popular camping beaches

  43. areff

    Call me un-Australian, but I spent three miserable days at the Rock in the late Eighties, largely due to a cabncelled flight and booking stuff-up with what was then East-West Airlines. Fainting-level hot, flies everywhere, the local Indigenes sitting in their filth around the base. The best things about the Rock: the pool at the Hilton, the bar at the Hilton, the air conditioning at the Hilton.

    I did climb it and that was worthwhile, but nothing else.

    ‘You have to watch the Rock change colour at sunset,’ we were told.

    So we sat there in the carpark and it really did change colour. It went from red to black. Wacko-the-diddlo!

    The only other fun thing was asking a ranger about subincision. He seemed reluctant to discuss its prevalence or otherwise.

  44. Roger

    “High Court to determine Aboriginal right to exclude public from popular camping beaches“

    Either we are all citizens with equal rights or we are a nation of tribes.

    Which is it to be?

  45. Muddy

    Peter Greagg
    #3193662, posted on October 25, 2019 at 7:21 pm

    Don’t forget the local aborigines only arrived at the Rock in the 1920s.
    Hardly a long association with it.

    Serious question: On what is that claim based please, Peter?

  46. V

    Tim Southpossum was having a fit that people wanted to climb it.

  47. JC

    Wifey went there with her sisters either last year or the one before. She reckons she had a great time there and they all took a heli ride around the rock as well climbed it.

    I had zero interest in going and zero interest in ever going there. The only way to see the rock is 35,000 feet up looking down, which is how I saw it a few decades ago.

  48. struth

    None is here but not back.
    We’ll see.

  49. Rockdoctor

    Dr Fred Lenin
    #3193508, posted on October 25, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    Yeah like where you are going but na. It is an uptilted sandstone bed. Bases are usually igneous in nature & Ayers Rock is sedementry…

  50. nfw

    Sacred site? Aren’t they usually found with Geiger counters?

  51. Clam Chowdah

    Don’t forget the local aborigines only arrived at the Rock in the 1920s.
    Hardly a long association with it.

    Citation?

  52. pete m

    We did not “give it away”. Native title exists over it.

    The agitators and their city boosters will harm relations as always, without benefiting ATI people.

    I wonder in national parks will now remove evidence of millions climbers feet etc?

  53. sfw

    Anyone here ever heard of the ARCSC? It was a limited membership club formed in one of the pubs that used to be near the base of the rock, before the pubs and the camping areas were cleared out and everyone made to camp or stay many kilometres away.

    The club had a strange ceremony that had to be performed by the inductee at the pub at peak time.

  54. Eyrie

    “Tim Southpossum was having a fit that people wanted to climb it.”
    Good. Was it fatal?

  55. mundi

    The reason you should never go or support this area is that its corrupt from ground up.

    The resort at aryes rock owns practically everything, including the resort, camp grounds, and the tour guides.They are the only ones that get approval to build anything.

    Now here is the interesting thing: They are broke and have been for a long time. Visitor numbers peaked just before the GFC in 2007 and have been falling ever since, especially international tourists.

    However…. the government has of course stepped in.

    Hold on to your hats…. The Aryes rock resort company is funded by…. The North Australian Infrastructure Fund. NAIF provide “concessional funding to infrastructure”.

    Now here is the kicker… they have loaned the resort over $370m, that they never have to pay back until visitor numbers surpass the 2007 peak for a sustained 5 years.

    So naturally the resort are in favour of the climbing ban. They get all that boat load of money which in all likelyhood they will never have to pay back. Those running it will get to siphon off the money over paying their family and friends as managers etc. T he government like it because they see it as funding locals since the resort mainly hires aboriginals (but of course only for the low end jobs).

    In the mean time money will be heavily funnelled out. I know the resort has a on-staff electrician, on staff carpinter, both on over $200k per year. This is just the the tip of the iceberg.

  56. struth

    If you read Bill Harney’s accounts as the first ranger there you will find there were no aboriginals living there.
    As semi nomadic hunters and gatherers they passed through the area.
    Very different.
    Around the rock is the Armedeus basin……a great sandy area that must be travelled to get to better areas.
    The rock was a stopping point with usually water available to drink and that attracted animals to hunt.
    That’s it.

  57. struth

    Mundi is right on the money.
    Literally.

  58. Alan

    “Mundi is right on the money.”
    Maybe.
    Any of you got any proof? At least one half-decent source?
    Literally … None.
    Assertions are a waste of time and space.

  59. mundi
    #3194039, posted on October 26, 2019 at 10:33 am

    The reason you should never go or support this area is that its corrupt from ground up.

    The resort at aryes rock owns practically everything, including the resort, camp grounds, and the tour guides.They are the only ones that get approval to build anything.

    Now here is the interesting thing: They are broke and have been for a long time. Visitor numbers peaked just before the GFC in 2007 and have been falling ever since, especially international tourists.

    However…. the government has of course stepped in.

    Hold on to your hats…. The Aryes rock resort company is funded by…. The North Australian Infrastructure Fund. NAIF provide “concessional funding to infrastructure”.

    Now here is the kicker… they have loaned the resort over $370m, that they never have to pay back until visitor numbers surpass the 2007 peak for a sustained 5 years.

    So naturally the resort are in favour of the climbing ban. They get all that boat load of money which in all likelyhood they will never have to pay back. Those running it will get to siphon off the money over paying their family and friends as managers etc. T he government like it because they see it as funding locals since the resort mainly hires aboriginals (but of course only for the low end jobs).

    In the mean time money will be heavily funnelled out. I know the resort has a on-staff electrician, on staff carpinter, both on over $200k per year. This is just the the tip of the iceberg.

    Holy crap this ought to be front page news.

    Oh, hi Alan! Do you have any proof to the contrary?

  60. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Comment, from the Oz article on the ban, along the lines of “Climbing the Rock is now banned, out of respect for Aboriginal culture. Will Aborigines now respect Australia Day, as part of our culture?”

  61. notafan

    NAIF’s primary financing mechanism is the provision of fixed rate, Australian dollar loans. Interest rates and payback period will be determined separately for each individual project. NAIF has the ability to provide concessions on the basis that such concessions are limited to the minimum necessary for a project to proceed. Any concessional interest rate that NAIF may offer cannot be below the combined cost of Commonwealth borrowing and administration costs.

    naif site

  62. struth

    Alan I have had plenty to do in thst neck of the woods.
    However you can find out all you need from google.
    See, No ones hiding anything, they just don’t promote it and the media has zero interest.
    Do your own home work.
    It’s all there.
    So go look for what you obviously don’t want to find.

  63. Alan

    “You have to believe me because you can find it for yourself on the internet.”
    😀

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  65. struth

    You can find it on the Internet.
    But as I said…….you don’t want to know.
    Don’t blame others…….we didn’t stick your head in the sand.
    What I have said and what mundi said is verifiable.

  66. Peter Greagg

    Muddy
    #3193693, posted on October 25, 2019 at 8:09 pm
    Peter Greagg
    #3193662, posted on October 25, 2019 at 7:21 pm

    Don’t forget the local aborigines only arrived at the Rock in the 1920s.
    Hardly a long association with it.

    Serious question: On what is that claim based please, Peter?

    Clam Chowdah
    #3193874, posted on October 26, 2019 at 7:05 am
    Don’t forget the local aborigines only arrived at the Rock in the 1920s.
    Hardly a long association with it.

    Citation?

    Sorry, but been away from my computer. I didn’t quote it originally as I thought the facts were reasonably well known.
    Cheers
    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2018/04/banon-climbing-ayers-rock-immoral-illegal/

  67. struth

    Respect is a one way street in Australia.

    And it is unearned and forced.
    The street is a dead end.

  68. Muddy

    Peter Greagg
    #3194394, posted on October 26, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    Thanks, Peter. I have read the article you linked to previously, and have just done so again, but must be reading too fast to find the 1920s reference? I have no contradictory information, but wanted to read it for myself.

  69. Peter Greagg

    Muddy
    #3194720, posted on October 26, 2019 at 11:14 pm
    Peter Greagg
    #3194394, posted on October 26, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    Thanks, Peter. I have read the article you linked to previously, and have just done so again, but must be reading too fast to find the 1920s reference? I have no contradictory information, but wanted to read it for myself.

    You are too kind – I (obviously) didn’t reread the article I posted.
    Sorry, I assumed I had read the 1920s arrival in it. I must have read it somewhere else.
    Although, I can’t find it now.
    If I do find it again, I will post it
    Cheers

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