Adam: Adding fuel to the fire.

I haven’t had any posts up for the last few days as I haven’t had anything to talk about. There is only so much discussion of the current virus situation that my patience can put up with. What I have said is still my view and nothing is really changing at this point.

About the only thing of note that I haven’t mentioned is the hysterical meltdown of those on the libertarian side of things to just about any government reaction to the current crisis. You can only imagine what this lot would have been saying when nations enacted rationing measures in WWII. Something along the lines of clawing the skin off their faces as they howled at the sky that these measures would never end and that our “rights” had been permanently taken away.

Peter Hitches is one of the very worst offenders, an hysterical female-like counterpoint to his deceased brother, who although a committed atheist would have at least been dealing with the current situation through the prism of a whisky glass and a cloud of cigarette smoke. Instead, Peter is dancing around with his hands in the air in mortal abject terror of any government imposed change to his daily routine whatsoever.

They scoff at alarming projections of deaths and point at the current low mortality rate as proof of their righteousness, seemingly unaware that the death toll is low because of the current measures, not in spite of them. One only has to look at the stark rise in deaths in New York and the desperate pleading for help from the governor Andrew Cuomo to understand that this is not business as usual.

Libertarians and many people on the alt right side are obsessed with their rights. What garners little attention from them is any real discussion of responsibilities, either individual or collective. So any measures in such a crisis are dismissed as over the top authoritarianism reminiscent of the worst crimes of the Soviet politburo. That the vast majority of us have never lived through such a critical event as this is somehow left out of the equation.

The overwhelming sniping from the sidelines at any attempts from nations’ leaders to deal with what is unfolding is typical behaviour of the backseat leader. But it is one thing to grandstand about just what should be done when you are in the convenient position of having no responsibility for the imaginary actions which you would take. It is another thing entirely to be on the front lines with a fearful amount of skin in the game as the crap is hitting a zeppelin sized fan.

Our responsibilities at the moment are to sit tight and do our best to not add to the problem. Yes we are suffering some discomfort. Yes, we are also taking a financial hit. Yes, some people are taking a bigger hit than others, either due to their own unpreparedness or suffering the ill fortune of this being very bad timing. But what are governments supposed to do? Take everyone’s individual circumstances into account? Even if they could, which they cannot, exactly why should they?

Our great handicap is that so many of us are conditioned to looking to government to solve our problems. So that when a very big event such as this happens then our only recourse is to scream and shout that something must be done or must not be done as the case may be. But the situation is not normal and screaming at the sky is beyond useless. What we must do is batten down the hatches and rely on ourselves and family and communities first. We must find ways to get things done.

Only when the pandemic lifts will we know in which form the world will exist. Until then it is useless to speculate, and it only serves to handicap what our leaders need to do, for good or ill. They are not perfect but for some reason we expect perfection of them in an impossible situation. Such is the human condition.

Originally posted at Adam Piggott

This entry was posted in COVID-19, Cross Post, Libertarians don't live by argument alone. Bookmark the permalink.

28 Responses to Adam: Adding fuel to the fire.

  1. Hay Stockard

    Effing wanker. Another chicken little. A whipped cur. A suckhole and a dobber. I don’t have a high opinion of him or craven scribbles.

  2. Adelagado

    Haven’t you been watching Sinc? We’ve seen blue light flashing cop cars careening across parklands threatening to run over sunbathers who don’t move on. Breast feeding mums trying to soak up some vitamin D are told to scamper back home. It should worry us all that gun-toting cops will thoughtlessly enforce the most ridiculous commands from on high.

  3. Peewhit

    Perhaps wartime rationing was a bad example to use. War rationing continued until 1949 when it was removed only because of the election of R G Menzies. The labour party was not going to remove it, and given their wish for a planned economy may never have done so.

  4. Tim Neilson

    There’s a lot of good sense in this.

    But not all criticism of our leaders is unjustified.

    The Hunchback of Spring Street :
    (a) as late as five days ago was sending spruikers and tradespeople door to door to spend taxpayer funds on changing lightbulbs that aren’t broken; but
    (a) is now trying to ban couples from visiting each other, on the grounds that letting someone into your house will kill people.

    If that’s not monumental incompetence and totalitarianism, I don’t know what is.

  5. Adelagado

    Adelagado
    #3389241, posted on April 2, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    Haven’t you been watching Sinc?

    Apologies Sinc. I thought this was your own post.

  6. Robber Baron

    This isn’t like war Sinc. During the wars we were not confined to our homes forcing human labor to sit idle, nor were we stopped from interacting with each other. We were encouraged to join in the community and labour was put to full use. The opposite of your argument.

    Our current problem originates from governments unwilling to redeploy existing government resources, assets and labour towards health and security which is in demand and away from things such as climate change and gender equality which are unnecessary.

  7. tgs

    What an absolute crock.

    This entire article consists of no more than “shut up and listen to your betters, plebs”.

    I was initially very sympathetic to the harsh government response to the pandemic, however there is more and more evidence coming out each day to suggest the response was driven by catastrophic predictions based on faulty modelling and experts pushing particular agendas, sometimes personal sometimes political.

    We won’t know for sure until it’s all over who was closest to the truth. But to suggest Hitchens is some sort of hand-wringing crybaby for raising legitimate questions around the cost/benefit of the response, both from an economic and societal perspective, is not just dishonest it’s downright stupid.

    In the meantime Adam can fuck right off if he thinks complaining like a sanctimonious twat about fair and valuable public debate is adding anything to the current discourse.

  8. Sinclair Davidson

    Robber Baron – I didn’t write the post.

  9. Buccaneer

    A discussion on the role of rights vs responsibly of those who have been hoovering up products off our retailers shelves and sending them back to China might be entertaining. Particularly the sponsorship role of the Chinese government and the property developers that have been bussing people to small country towns like Albert Nsw for this purpose. I note that respirator masks were in Short supply mid Jan about the same time the Chinese started fessing up.

  10. I get it.
    Adam is angling for a job as a beach inspector or maybe supermarket trolley inspector.

  11. John A

    Our responsibilities at the moment are to sit tight and do our best to not add to the problem. Yes we are suffering some discomfort. Yes, we are also taking a financial hit. Yes, some people are taking a bigger hit than others, either due to their own unpreparedness or suffering the ill fortune of this being very bad timing. But what are governments supposed to do? Take everyone’s individual circumstances into account? Even if they could, which they cannot, exactly why should they?

    Sit tight and not mix with anyone? Well, how the hell are we going to build up the herd immunity that so many talk about if we don’t mix around, transmit the virus in mild form to others, build up our personal immunity etc.?

    And “Yes, some people are taking a bigger hit than others”? This household has had its entire income stopped for the last three to four weeks. No doubt we are not alone. He’s a bit precious daring to talk about taking a financial hit from a secure position as a receiver of author royalties! (And the same goes for those in secure salaried positions, drawing on annual leave and so on.)

    It undermines his otherwise useful discussion about too many people not taking personal responsibility for themselves as a general life principle – something I have advocated for many years, both before and after I joined this online forum.

  12. Steve

    I suspect we are confined so whatever deviousness the NWO is up to will be well out of sight. A virus like this is a good distraction. Our MSM are doing another 9/11 and providing hypnotizing coverage of doom, doom and more doom…..except this time, a viral object hit the population, not an orb-like flying object. Apparently hand sinaitizer doesnt burn hot enough to melt the MSM lies……

    And…..in the USA apparently they are rolling out 5G ( that of the O2 destroying 60 GHz variety ) under the cover of any get together being banned worse than in china. Hey , good thing Darwin has already rolled out Chinese style phone IMEI geo-fencing and panopticon-like surveillance of its town centre.

    Something bad is happening – were being trained to be locked down and be good obedient slaves. Presumably when china invades, we will be calibrated already….

    In the USA, its basically literally on a war footing with 1,000,000 military reservists called up, presuambly ready to give a good bruising to whoever created this bug. As long as someone doesnt release a second more deadly virus on the USA, I predict they will hit someone hard. WW3 may have just started.
    China apparently has always wanted to take over the USA but preferred biological war as it leaves infrastructure intact.

    Interesting times….

    I predict the presidential election cancelled and Trump will set him self as Emporer.

  13. Colin Suttie

    Adam is normally fairly sensible. In this case I suspect he is letting his personal connection to Northern Italy cloud his judgement – “shut up and listen to your betters” is not his usual stance.

  14. John A

    Robber Baron #3389273, posted on April 2, 2020, at 3:32 pm

    This isn’t like war Sinc. During the wars we were not confined to our homes forcing human labor to sit idle, nor were we stopped from interacting with each other. We were encouraged to join in the community and labour was put to full use. The opposite of your argument.

    Our current problem originates from governments unwilling to redeploy existing government resources, assets and labour towards health and security which is in demand and away from things such as climate change and gender equality which are unnecessary.

    Adam P was right to argue that people should be taking more personal responsibility instead of just wailing “what’s the ‘gummint’ doing about it?”.

    However, the other side of that coin is that the body politic has been working for a long time to make the electorate uselessly dependant on ‘da gummint’ as a God-substitute: replacement father, provider, molly-coddler, rescuer and sympathiser in times of trouble.

    But he sure hasn’t made any friends with his one-sided rant.

  15. Colonel Bunty Golightly

    I understand the amount of money being used to support those who are losing jobs. What I don’t understand is why the government is doubling the amount being given to welfare recipients. Welfare recipients don’t contribute the economy, many never will and most don’t want to, so why should they be given any more than necessary to ensure survival. Welfare should not be viewed as an alternative lifestyle. Second question is – what will happen when the government tries to wind the welfare back after a few months? Wait for the wails from the welfare industry and watch the backflip by Morrison. If welfare remains at what has been currently set there will be zero incentive for low paid workers to seek work!

  16. Beachcomber

    Hay Stockard
    #3389238, posted on April 2, 2020 at 3:14 pm

    Effing wanker. Another chicken little. A whipped cur. A suckhole and a dobber. I don’t have a high opinion of him or (his) craven scribbles.

    100+

  17. will

    Monty!!!! is that you?

    Do you realise that liberty is not cost free?

    Do you enjoy your slavery?

    Do we need to show our papers to the nice policeperson?

  18. Colin Suttie

    “What I don’t understand is why the government is doubling the amount being given to welfare recipients…what will happen when the government tries to wind the welfare back after a few months? Wait for the wails from the welfare industry and watch the backflip by Morrison. If welfare remains at what has been currently set there will be zero incentive for low paid workers to seek work!”

    Exactly. This is one of many knee-jerk overreactions by our moral betters that will have long-term effects. They probably had to do something like this as their actions were about to throw many people out of work.

    However, my company runs (ran) an intern scheme for young people on benefits, with potential part-time jobs after 12 weeks. Given the skill level required & the low-cost international competition, these jobs are (were) minimum wage. Now that benefits are worth $1100/fortnight, no intern would be crazy enough to accept a job, as they’d have to work over 30 hours a week to break even compared to staying at home. Net result = local jobs and training opportunities lost, and my company having to use the (inferior) overseas suppliers.

  19. PK

    What seems to be missing from this analysis:

    A) Governments composed of the present crop of politicians will always welcome the opportunity to spend your money. Crises are almost welcome. A lot of the expenditure will find its way to irrelevant areas as various hobby horses are indulged from the bottomless supply of loot.

    B) As with the climate change boondoggle, if the problem goes away they can claim justification. If it doesn’t obviously they should have been more extreme in their actions. Can’t lose. Not very scientific.

    It moves me to re quote Dr Peter Goetzsche, professor of clinical research design and analysis, University of Copenhagen, Denmark (via Geoffrey Luck at Quadrant):

    “Our main problem is that no one will ever get in trouble for measures that are too draconian. They will only get in trouble if they do too little. Remember the joke about tigers: ‘Why did you blow the horn?’ ‘To keep tigers away’. ‘But there are no tigers here.’ ‘There, you see!’”

  20. Robber Baron

    Ooops Sinc. Replace your name with the idiotic author in my post please.

  21. Iampeter

    About the only thing of note that I haven’t mentioned is the hysterical meltdown of those on the libertarian side of things to just about any government reaction to the current crisis.

    Pointing out that the actions taken by our governments are almost totally wrong and explaining what should be done instead and why is the exact opposite of a “hysterical meltdown.”
    In fact, the only ones having hysterical meltdowns are our politicians and conservatives who don’t really know what governments are supposed to do under normal circumstances anyway, let along during a crisis.

    Peter Hitches is one of the very worst offenders, an hysterical female-like counterpoint to his deceased brother, who although a committed atheist would have at least been dealing with the current situation through the prism of a whisky glass and a cloud of cigarette smoke.

    Good insight into the conservative mindset. There’s no knowledge of politics so gotta bring up religion.

    Libertarians and many people on the alt right side are obsessed with their rights. What garners little attention from them is any real discussion of responsibilities, either individual or collective.

    Most libertarians don’t know what rights are and never mention them.
    The “alt-right,” better known as the Old Left, are as anti individual rights as any other leftists.
    Phew. For a second there I thought you had no idea what you were talking about.
    A better way to write this would be something like: right wingers are concerned with individual rights because that’s what being right wing is all about. Meanwhile leftists are exploiting the crisis to get away with as many violations of rights as possible. Also, politically illiterate leftists AKA conservatives, like the author of this article, talk about “responsibilities.” Which is not even a political concept and doesn’t belong in these discussions. It just keeps coming up, like religion, because conservatives don’t know anything about politics.

    Only when the pandemic lifts will we know in which form the world will exist. Until then it is useless to speculate, and it only serves to handicap what our leaders need to do, for good or ill.

    Yes, yes, shut-up and obey drones! Who cares about you’re lives, we have lives to save!

    The funniest thing of all is that I bet the author of this article and those who agree with him don’t think they are leftists.

  22. twostix

    You can only imagine what this lot would have been saying when nations enacted rationing measures in WWII.

    This is so cringe.

    This isn’t WW2. It’s not Vietnam. It’s not even Iraq.

    If the states government in 1943 had of A) spoken to the populace with the contempt and vitriol this lot do and B) tried to imprison the entire country in their homes for six months, they would have been gone by the next afternoon.

  23. Adam:

    Only when the pandemic lifts will we know in which form the world will exist. Until then it is useless to speculate, and it only serves to handicap what our leaders need to do, for good or ill. They are not perfect but for some reason we expect perfection of them in an impossible situation. Such is the human condition.

    The politicians were voted in or out on their interviews before the elections.
    We have now discovered they lied about their abilities to do the jobs, and even about their intentions of following the guideline as set out in the selection criteria – i.e. The Constitution.
    We are not expecting perfection, Adam. We are expecting them to uphold the “Social Contract” they entered into with us. So far they are doing a really piss poor job of it and we are generally getting really annoyed at the level of incompetence and duplicity being shown.

  24. Harpo of Wolli Creek

    Just about the dumbest, most illogical, hysterical at a teenage girl level screed ever printed at this site.

  25. Harpo of Wolli Creek

    Seriously, do you have a bath in estrogen every morning then gargle estrogen before cowering in the corner for the rest of the day, quivering in terror.

  26. Lilliana

    What I don’t understand is why the government is doubling the amount being given to welfare recipients.

    I don’t understand either, it will only exacerbate the mindset that the goverment will and should always provide. And that is the main issue in my opinion. No one takes any personal responsibility and everybody has their hand out. I read about a chap who lost his hospitality job and doesn’t’ want to line up at Centrelink and doesn’t want to pay his rent. Just give him cash though. Foreign students and backpackers wanting handouts. Welfare recipients getting a bonus (wtf!!). Whingers in quarantine wanting god knows what. The list goes on and on.

    Scomo seems overwhelmed. He needs a hard arse bastard to step in and say ENOUGH everybody has to make do with less – end of story. If this continues we will be an economic basket case not even worthy of the title of banana republic. Keating 1986 speech (below) is just as valid today as it was then. We really are a stupid bunch, China must be laughing at us.

    We took the view in the 1970s – it’s the old cargo cult mentality of Australia that she’ll be right. This is the lucky country, we can dig up another mound of rock and someone will buy it from us, or we can sell a bit of wheat and bit of wool and we will just sort of muddle through … In the 1970s … we became a third world economy selling raw materials and food and we let the sophisticated industrial side fall apart … If in the final analysis Australia is so undisciplined, so disinterested in its salvation and its economic well being, that it doesn’t deal with these fundamental problems … … Then you are gone. You are a banana republic.

  27. Tim

    Call me one of those back seat drivers all you like. At least I propose a different solution as opposed to the usual lefty responses

    The hole situation has been so poorly managed. The totalitarian pollys have shown their true colours

    What should have happened in January or even today, is what happens when there is a biosecurity issue in agriculture. It is not bloody rocket science and it works.

    Firstly you quarantine the area /s of the outbreak and notify the adjoining areas so that stock / weed issue etc can be monitored to prevent the spread. Then you deal with the spread and eradicate it. Since this is a bloody virus with a life cycle, it means you isolate the virus to known areas until there is no evidence it is still there then wait out the incubation period and carefully start to relax the quarantine until you can finally claim victory and life returns to normal. In this case those in unaffected areas will be inconvenienced for 14 to 16 days not months and the cost to uneffected economies would be like a weather event.

    As for those that wish to travel overseas, thats fine. But their return means “they” will have to pay for their quarantine on their return. It is pretty simple. This is what happens with animals now. They leave and when they come back they are quarantined at the owners expense. Pretty simple

    The government has no right to stop people doing what they want to do UNLESS that activity places other people at risk. In the case of people returning from overseas or from infected areas, that is exactly the point. They are potentially putting others at risk and that is not ok

    Personally I think any polly that thinks the current situation is ok needs to resign. We had men and women go to war to protect our freedoms and no politition has any right to impede that unless our actions put others at risk

    If the biosecurity solution I refer to above and the appropriate quarantine measures had been and still could be put in place then many areas outside of the infected areas could still be going about their normal daily lives. Pubs could be open sport could be played etc..

    If you dont understand what I am talking about then search for a biosecurity process for say cattle tick crossing the tick line. Ticks probably spread more quickly than corona virus, they also live on grass for a period of time and they breed like flies, so for those that say the virus is different I say rubbish.

    1 final point. Why are golf clubs still open when people cant go to the beach. Ok 20000 on bondi would be a problem but 2000 may not be if they are maintaining distance. I guess they are a higher class of citizen NOT. There should be one set of rules and it should be equally applied to all regardless of financial status… and restrictions should be limited to areas where the virus exists. There is absolutely no point or benefit restricting access at state borders unless one side in virus free. But there is good reason to identify areas where the virus hasnt got to and restrict movement in

  28. Fresh Pat

    When I worked at the ATO I was regarded as an anachronism, a badge I wore with pride.

    Not 1% of the public servants I had to put up with had any empathy for the public at large. Nor were they worth 1% of what they were paid.

    The theme there was “too bad, so sad”.

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