How washed up hippies and panic wrecked the country

  Eminent scientist indicts babyboomers and says they must pay                                                       

There is only one reason our panic-stricken, Gestapo-curious politicians continue to illegally harass and detain Australians: as cover for the most idiotic public policy in the nation’s history. Via Davey Boy:

One of the world’s top scientists has branded lockdowns a “huge mistake” and called Australia a “standout loser” for “massively” damaging its economy and society without obtaining immunity to COVID-19.

In an extraordinary 30-minute interview Michael Levitt, who won the Nobel prize for chemistry in 2013, also slammed Baby Boomers for “really screwing up” the world. “If I was a young person now I would say, you guys are going to pay for this,” said Professor Levitt, 72.

Professor of structural biology at Stanford University, he said “panic” stemming from “incorrect numbers” had prompted lockdowns whose damage “will exceed any saving of lives by a huge factor – there is no doubt in my mind”.

Uploaded to UK website Unheard overnight, the professor said Germany and Sweden, with deaths so far per million from COVID-19 of 81 and 264, respectively, were “standout winners” in their response.

“They didn’t practice too much lockdown, enough people got sick to get some herd immunity,” he said.

“And the standout losers are Austria, Australia, Israel, which have had strict lockdowns without many cases. They have damaged their economies, society, harmed the education of their children but not obtained any herd immunity,” he added.

 
And before the usual dogmatic curve flattenists dismiss Levitt as a right-wing white supremacist homophobe or something, they should read the whole commentary – from the source:

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85 Responses to How washed up hippies and panic wrecked the country

  1. John A

    And, I repeat, that the death toll is STILL less than the road toll in every jurisdiction (possibly except ACT).

  2. Pete of Perth

    Michael Levitt’s criticism of lockdown policy on Unherd YouTube channel. Australia gets a mention of what not to do link

  3. nb

    Here is what you get, apart from fentanyl and viruses, if you flirt with China.
    Frank Dikotter on Mao’s Great Famine 8/6/2018

  4. Anthony

    Is herd immunity even a realistic aspiration? The more I read about currently circulating coronavirus that cause common colds, the more it seems they don’t induce long lasting immunity.

  5. Hay Stockard

    You can win a Nobel Prize and still be a fool.

  6. John Dee

    “You can win a Nobel Prize and still be a fool.”
    A scientist in one of the difficult disciplines – chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering – could not possibly be a fool.
    If you disagree – please name a single instance where the Nobel was awarded in any of those disciplines that was not deserved.
    The gentleman mentioned M Levitt won it for chemistry.
    There have been mistakes in Nobel awards for medicine but only because the achievements feted at the time did not actually turn out as planned but even those winners were certainly no fools.
    Of course if you were referring to Obama and Arafat I think everyone would agree with you.
    Perhaps if you were not so economical with your analysis ?

  7. Mark A

    Hay Stockard
    #3438814, posted on May 4, 2020 at 1:03 am

    You can win a Nobel Prize and still be a fool.

    I would rephrase that to “be ignorant in other areas of science and life in general”
    Applies to a lot of celebrated individuals.

  8. Armadillo

    A scientist in one of the difficult disciplines – chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering – could not possibly be a fool.

    Of course they can. You do know the definition of “fool”, don’t you?

    This is very poor trolling, John Dee. Possibly the most pathetic trolling I’ve seen at the Cat. Ever.

  9. Armadillo

    Applies to a lot of celebrated individuals.

    Absolutely. Brilliant in some respects, totally clueless in others.

    It’s the ones that get carried away with their own genius that are the worry.

  10. Armadillo

    Just because you can code or successfully invest money doesn’t entitle you run the world.

  11. jupes

    “If I was a young person now I would say, you guys are going to pay for this,”

    To which the Boomer replies: “No sonny, you will”.

  12. Our politicians will call this the success story of a lifetime and, unfortunately, all too many will agree.

  13. Win

    Re Herd immunity. It was disastrous when measles were introduced to the indigenous people in in 1874 in Presumably the plaque on the rock in bush land at Manly Cove is still there as a memorial to those who died. How ever with Corvid 19 we had similar flu symptoms that went through our special school last year. Am waiting for antibody test kit.

  14. custard

    Can I just understand if my math is correct.

    Australia has either spent or allocated $300b to the WhuFlu.

    We have had around 100 deaths.

    That’s $300m per person.

    Have I got that right?

  15. Ed Case

    The vid the other day where Palaszczuk cops a vax with the lid on the needle was a hoax.
    She did get vaxxed but there was some issue with recording so they did it over with the cap on the needle.

  16. If I was a young person now I would say, you guys are going to pay for this,” said Professor Levitt, 72.

    Not all Boomers support this crap. But given that all too many young people seem to support Socialism, this is a taste of what’s to come if they don’t rethink their views.

  17. Ed Case

    That’s $300m per person.

    Have I got that right?

    No. It’s 3 billion per death.
    Interesting to know if the States have tested their prison populations.
    I’m thinking they have and that’s where the numbers are coming from but no deaths.
    In America some large prison test came in 98% positive, no symptoms

  18. calli

    If I was a young person now I would say, you guys are going to pay for this,”

    What the hell does that even mean?

    How is an entire generation going to “pay”?

    It’s puffadder-ish bullsh*t.

    I seem to recall another time in history when a large, easily defined cohort was blamed for a economic and social ills. It didn’t end well.

  19. Ed Case

    It’s possible Dr Levitt may be aware of what you are alluding to but it’s not stopping him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Levitt

  20. Iampeter

    There is only one reason our panic-stricken, Gestapo-curious politicians continue to illegally harass and detain Australians: as cover for the most idiotic public policy in the nation’s history.

    The Cat has certainly become overrun with open border, globalist loons ever since getting a good taste of serious nationalist style policies. Except without having made the necessary connection and learnt the correct lesson.

    Can’t wait for when these lockdowns end and trade and travel resumes, and the very same people start calling for nationalist policies again without missing a beat or any self awareness.

    It’s going to be a laugh.

  21. Ed Case

    Did Australia spend the equivalent of $300 Billion on our 12 year sojourn in Vietnam 1962-73?
    Or WW2 1939-45?

  22. Bad Samaritan

    Win (8.48 am). Measles is about the most contagious diseases of them all, while this latest virus is rather average. Also the death rate amongst those infected by Measles is incredibly high (about 30% I read somewhere) vs an extremely low one for CV

    Put this together with the 1870s; no knowledge of viruses etc, and no treatments…well, you’d have to wonder whether there’s any comparison possible between measles in 1870 and CV in 2020. Why are you muddying the waters with this/

  23. On a slightly different note, I’ve come across a number of ‘celebrities’ (TV and movie personalities) bemoaning their lot in life, not having work or having to do menial work to survive. All of these people have been on a very good wicket during their life, some doing very well indeed, so what have they done with their earnings that now makes life so hard?

  24. mh

    Eminent scientist indicts babyboomers and says they must pay

    😆

  25. JohnJJJ

    bemused
    so what have they done with their earnings that now makes life so hard?

    The ones I know: luxury eight bedroom holiday house on a river, a couple of $24,000 refrigerators, endless trips to Aspen, safaris, then there is the odd margin call, trainers, cleaners, gardeners, eight cars….. Weekly expenses start at $20k.
    Hard to keep that up in these tough times.

  26. min

    I heard a discussion with P.J.O’Rourke where it was said the millennials call covid19 the boomer remover. The statistics show however that it is us who are over 70 , like Professor Levitt, are more at risk . At this stage not sure what is the biggest worry for me , catching the virus or the loss of income from share market and investments. Luckily I always work on having living expenses for a couple of years in the bank and live long enough to enjoy the extras when as it always does , share market returns Banks are a big concern though.

  27. Matt

    So we can’t trust the medical/health experts, but we should definitely trust a Nobel prize winning scientist to provide the right answer? Sure.

  28. JohnJJJ

    I always work on having living expenses for a couple of years in the bank and live long enough to enjoy the extras when as it always does , share market returns ….
    As my old mate Rebbe Yitzchak said
    “Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business and a third let him keep by him in reserve” Worked well for the Chosen. Other things, not so much.

  29. notafan

    US have had covid19 19 deaths in prisons

    Worldometer reports US federal prison deaths but not state ones.

    Given the high percentage of incarnated with (often drug related) comorbitied i’d be interested in a link showing 98% positive no symptoms.

  30. Suburban Boy

    We have low numbers of infections and deaths and this guy says as a result we are a “standout loser”.

    Presumably, then, Italy and Spain are the winners in the 2020 coronavirus stakes. I wish them a hearty congratulations.

  31. notafan

    I don’t really understand the pronouncers.

    My understanding this is a ‘novel’ virus, we really don’t know much about. The how it spreads goalposts have been shifted quite a few times.

    We don’t know why it appears Australia and Israel have had little impact.

  32. Gilas

    Michael Levitt = Woody Allen’s long lost dizygotic twin brother.

  33. Rokdoktor

    That’s $300m per person.

    Have I got that right?

    The money has been spent to prevent deaths – not cause them. So your calculation should be how many lives saved for the 300 billion? I can’t venture a number for this. Perhaps Canada, with a slightly larger population in a vast country, but with its people concentrated in a few large cities along the southern fringe of the nation and a modern health system (similar characteristics to Australia) is a good comparison. 3,600+ deaths so far with 100+ added in the last day. That may be indicative of the number of lives we have saved to date – let’s say $100,000 per life (rounded off) – excessive to me.

  34. Rokdoktor

    Sorry, that should be $100 million per potential life saved.

  35. Bemused:

    On a slightly different note, I’ve come across a number of ‘celebrities’ (TV and movie personalities) bemoaning their lot in life, not having work or having to do menial work to survive. All of these people have been on a very good wicket during their life, some doing very well indeed, so what have they done with their earnings that now makes life so hard?

    Perhaps paying $300 for coffee and a slice of Tiramisu isn’t quite the bargain they make it out to be?

  36. Bronson

    Talhib said it best – Intellectual Yet Idiot

  37. Zatara

    And before the usual dogmatic curve flattenists dismiss Levitt as a right-wing white supremacist homophobe or something…

    Why in the world would anyone have said that when he is exactly the opposite? A left-wing, anti-Trump, global warmacist? In fact, one of:

    More than 300 scientists warn over Trump’s climate change stance

    The 375 members of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, including 30 Nobel Prize winners, said in an open letter that a U.S. abandonment of the agreement would make it far harder to develop global strategies to lessen the impact of global warming. “Thus it is of great concern that the Republican nominee for President has advocated U.S. withdrawal from the Paris Accord,” the letter said.

    Among the signers are biologist E.O. Wilson, physicists Stephen Hawking and Claude Canizares, astrophysicist Simon D.M. White, and Nobel winners Thomas Steitz, Michael Levitt and William Daniel Phillips.

    Your first clue should have been:

    In an extraordinary 30-minute interview Michael Levitt, who won the Nobel prize for chemistry in 2013, also slammed Baby Boomers for “really screwing up” the world. “If I was a young person now I would say, you guys are going to pay for this,” said Professor Levitt, 72.

    The man knows feck-all about epidemiology, he is a chemist who happens to have won a big bobble for his chemistry. Trying to use his fame as a chemist to make him out to be an expert on a completely different field is either deeply foolish or basically dishonest.

  38. C.L.

    We have low numbers of infections and deaths and this guy says as a result we are a “standout loser”.

    Exactly right. Because we have wrecked the economy – which will cause more deaths than this unremarkable flu – and it was all based on panic and a contemptuous disregard for civil liberties.

    You don’t suspend the courts, democracy, religious freedom, detain the population using monopolised state violence and sack the entire country because a small number of people are getting sick and dying.

  39. Roger

    Why in the world would anyone have said that when he is exactly the opposite? A left-wing, anti-Trump, global warmacist?

    Also a Malthusian.

  40. C.L.

    Why in the world would anyone have said that when he is exactly the opposite? A left-wing, anti-Trump, global warmacist?

    Yes. That was my point.
    Why in the world would they say that, you ask? Because the biggest supporters of shut-down hysteria are leftists and they’d like nohing more than to Trump-slam the Nobel winner if they could as a rightist.

  41. Perhaps these ‘celebs’ had the same mindset as WA miners, the money would be rolling in forever, so no need to live and plan like normal people.

  42. Mother Lode

    Washed hippies?

  43. Roger

    We have low numbers of infections and deaths and this guy says as a result we are a “standout loser”.

    Because the cure is worse than the disease.

    If mortality is the measure, I’d wager we’ve had/will have more deaths from surgeries postponed, cancers not detected early enough for effective treatment and suicides than we would have from a more conservative, common sense reaction to Xi’s virus.

  44. PoliticoNT

    ‘to illegally harass and detain Australians’

    CurrencyLad/Sinc – the most important articles I’ve read on Catallaxy Files in the past 12 months were posted just before the WuhanFukery (WF) commenced, and then just after. Both covered off on elements of how government regulation is strangling business, and how regulatory organisations now seem to measure success on how much they regulate without regard for the damage this does.

    I’ll repeat that; Catallaxy’s spotlight on the idiocy & evil of over-regulation (and its malign culture) remains the most important thing this site has produced in the past 12 months. The only exception would be CurrenyLad’s words, ‘to illegally harass and detail Australians.’ (Sinc) – you need to pull out the big guns and detail in legal terms how and where we are being illegally harassed and detained. As in the technical element of the illegality. (It’s easier to fight back against the beast when we know which way to fire.)

  45. Ed Case

    Anyway, it was classic Bait & Switch.
    Scotty and his gormless ministers did everything the Medico Bureaucrats/ABC/Intelligentsia told them to do, now it’s ”What did you do that for?”

  46. Ed Case

    If mortality is the measure, I’d wager we’ve had/will have more deaths from surgeries postponed, cancers not detected early enough …

    Death rates went down during a Doctor’s Strike 20 years ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127364/

  47. Roger

    Death rates went down during a Doctor’s Strike 20 years ago

    Interesting, but in the meantime I’ve got a son in a lot of pain with an aggressive tumour growing in his knee and the only thing the GP can do to take the edge off the pain is to sedate him.

  48. The Baby Boomers also gave us eco whacko environmentalism, the hatred of fossil fuels, and the dream of renewables that have now morphed into the climate change movement and a planetary role for human beings as the managers and caretakers of the planet.

    https://tambonthongchai.com/2020/03/30/the-humans-must-save-the-planet/

  49. notafan

    Roger I was wondering where that was at.

    Very bad news.

    Thank goodness, unlike China, our government can’t stop women from having babies.

    Clearly other reason elective surgery needs to be reopened, now.

  50. Roger

    Clearly other reason elective surgery needs to be reopened, now.

    It is in QLD, nota, but still very restricted.

    He can’t see a specialist, either in rooms or in the public hospital, until later this month.

    Even if we pay for him to have the op done privately – which we will if necessary – we’re told it could be months, such is the backlog. I’m angry, but my local state member is in the Opposition and parliament isn’t sitting so matters such as these can’t be brought to wider attention.

  51. stackja

    Still little about Wuhan and WHO.

  52. notafan

    My sympathies Roger.

    Very difficult for you.

  53. Roger

    Very difficult for you.

    Much more difficult for him, nota. It’s having a big psychological impact. He wants to have the leg amputated. There are other options, attempted removal followed by radiotherapy, total knee replacement if the damage is irreparable, but if the growth is left too long and advances up the femur, amputation could in fact be the only option. It’s a very rare and aggressive type of tumour, we’re told.

  54. notafan

    Sorry Roger

    I should have say youse.

    I’m very grateful my sister is in treatment and everything was super quick.

    First specialist visit early March.

  55. Tim Neilson

    Can’t wait for when these lockdowns end and trade and travel resumes, and the very same people start calling for nationalist policies again without missing a beat or any self awareness.

    Once again you’ve completely failed to understand the difference between keeping people out of somewhere they’ve got no right to be, and locking people in somewhere to prevent them being in places they would normally have a right to be and should be allowed to be.

    There’s no contradiction in saying that a nation state has a right to keep out foreigners who it doesn’t want to let in, and criticising the lack of wisdom in a particular government response to a particular situation within its borders.

    I’m not aware of anyone on this site saying that governments shouldn’t have extraordinary powers in extraordinary situations – people are only saying that the current government response is an abuse of those powers through panic-stricken incompetence and unwarranted deference to the braying from primary school blackboard monitor junior H!tlers.

  56. Tim Neilson

    Roger
    #3439113, posted on May 4, 2020 at 10:44 am

    And his treatment’s being delayed just in case a few thousand serious Chicom virus cases appear from nowhere some time in the next few weeks?

    FMD – greatest of sympathy to you, but also sheer anger at this stupidity.

  57. Sydney Boy

    And before the usual dogmatic curve flattenists dismiss Levitt as a right-wing white supremacist homophobe or something, they should read the whole commentary – from the source:

    Nope. Just going to point out your sample size for eminent scientists calling Australia “losers” is one. That is the exact tactic the left use – from MMT to the anti-vaxxers. I though we were better than that.

    I’m all for Sinc providing guest authors the platform to express their opinion, but currencylad’s tinfoil hat rants are getting tired.

  58. Mother Lode

    So this is how they hope to be able to back out of the corner (cornervirus) they have walked into.

    They are scared to admit they got carried away, intoxicated with power embarking on an orgy of regulation and tyranny.

    They will try to make it look like they have found a way to return our freedoms – conditional upon giving them the power to check where we are at all times.

    Absolute filth.

  59. Mother Lode

    Whoops.

    Wrong thread.

  60. We are in a lock-down because…..
    There are 904 Active Cases in Australia.
    NINE HUNDRED AND FVCKING FOUR people have the WuFlu and we are being detained.
    That’s less than ONE in 25,000 people have the flu.

    By the way, all this talk about people not developing immunity once they get sick and recover is BULLSHIT. We would have had many repeat cases reported by now (especially in the USA and Europe).
    We always develop immunity to these types of diseases or our species (and others that get these types of diseases) would have been wiped out centuries ago.

    That means we will be hit very hard once cold weather (flu season) sets in because very few people actually got this flu. How on Earth will they justify ending the lock-down then?
    Either they keep us locked down until next November, or thousands will die soon after re-opening because we didn’t allow the natural course of this disease….Natural developed IMMUNITY.

  61. Re Boomer Levitt, I was disappeared on a thread on the Oz for simple saying to him ‘OK Boomer. Whatever.’
    Maybe the non-chemical scientific advice is ‘in’ at the Oz.

  62. Ed Case

    Is there immunity to Corona Viruses? Don’t think so.
    If there isn’t then talk of an effective vax is a sham, and the Governments are funneling fantastic amounts to, erm, professional cronies of the same experts that created the virus in the first place.

  63. Roger

    FMD – greatest of sympathy to you, but also sheer anger at this stupidity.

    Legs on healthy young men are dispensable it seems.

    If it comes to that we’ll be seeking compensation.

  64. Hay Stockard

    Iain Russell,
    And so you should have been.

  65. Iampeter

    There’s no contradiction in saying that a nation state has a right to keep out foreigners who it doesn’t want to let in, and criticising the lack of wisdom in a particular government response to a particular situation within its borders.

    Yes there is. There is a direct contradiction in supporting the government sacrificing individuals for some greater agenda and then turning around and opposing the government sacrificing individuals for some greater agenda.
    As a collectivist of the religious/traditionalist/nationalist persuasion you have no grounds to oppose these collectivists policies for any fundamental reason.

  66. John Brumble

    Sinclair,
    It is the height of hypocrisy to complain about honest personal abuse while at the same time allowing the sort of dishonest trolling engaged in by our resident pretend Randian. If you’re fair dinkum about improving the level of dialogue, then blatant misrepresentation and a complete lack of good faith in discussion also need to be shown the door.

    If anything, this guy’s inane drivel is far worse than a simple honest and clear stream of invective.

  67. thefrollickingmole

    2 things

    1: Based on the original predictions the government was 100% correct to have taken most of the measures it did, if anything the border closures and especially the lockdown of passenger ship passengers should have occurred at least a week or 2 earlier. Because if bolloxed up that bit of the response the lockdowns became the next “best” measure. It did however deliberately lie about facemasks which, if this had been as bad as first projections indicated may have killed tens of thousands by boosting the rate of spread.

    2: The numbers and projections were fairly quickly shown to be shakey at best, magnitudes of order wrong at worst.
    As the numbers have changed the response has ground on unchanged. This is extreme, extraordinary stupidity. They are inflicting massive damage on people so they can claim a “victory” which can be undone in 3 months with 3-4 overseas visitors. We already achieved what the original goal was, we never even got close to going past it, because the predictions were very, very wrong.
    No attempt to explain why the figures are so fucky, nothing more than “in another x weeks we might let you do a little more because …reasons”.

    Its a massive pantomime of idiocy.

  68. It is the height of hypocrisy to complain about honest personal abuse while at the same time allowing the sort of dishonest trolling engaged in by our resident pretend Randian.

    I’ve wondered for some time whether said individual is Sinc’s or some other approved writer’s alter ego, created to cause controversy and argument on this forum just for laughs. There are many inconsistencies about.

  69. Tim Neilson

    Yes there is. There is a direct contradiction in supporting the government sacrificing individuals for some greater agenda and then turning around and opposing the government sacrificing individuals for some greater agenda

    “Sacrificing individuals”?
    A government which declines to issue a visa to some foreigner isn’t “sacrificing” them any more than a private club “sacrifices” non-members by refusing them admission to the club premises.

    Would you insist that we let Chicom virus sufferers into the country freely at this time? If not, you’ve conceded the principle that a sovereign state can in at least some circumstances keep foreigners out for the benefit of the existing inhabitants.

    Even if a particular refusal, or particular category of refusals, is argued not to be in the country’s best interests, the general principle remains that refusal of admission to a nation state is in some circumstances a legitimate exercise of sovereignty.

    Similarly in an epidemic, a government may be justified in temporarily restricting the liberties of anyone in the country in ways that would otherwise not be justified. But that doesn’t mean that people can’t properly argue that a particular restriction is an abuse of the general emergency powers of government.

    There’s no contradiction at all between saying that a government:
    (a) generally has both powers to control its borders and powers to impose restrictions during an epidemic;
    (b) specifically in a particular instance is exercising those powers properly by restricting immigration; and
    (c ) specifically in a particular instance is exercising those powers improperly by going into panic mode during an epidemic.

  70. Bad Samaritan

    Ed Case (11.21am). You are correct.

    So far there are no vaxes against any other CV so why would this one be any different? Mates making money is what the go is.

  71. thefrollickingmole

    Bad Samaritan

    My understanding is the reason there hasnt been a vaccine against this particular family of viruses is because it has never been considered serious enough to warrant it, rather than an inability to do so.

    Happy to be corrected, apparently the same family does have animal vaccines produced.

  72. Leo G

    So far there are no vaxes against any other CV so why would this one be any different? Mates making money is what the go is.

    The vaccines need to be tested in the context of an epidemic to assess their efficacy. Erliers SARS outbreaks did not persist long enough for prospective vaccines to be tested.

    They have damaged their economies, society, harmed the education of their children but not obtained any herd immunity

    They possibly have some aquired immunity from relatively harmless strains of coronavirus that are part of the yearly patrern of “common cold” outbreaks across the country. Sure, some people will have thereby developed antibodies that are ineffective against COVID, but most will have some degree of acquired immunity.
    It should be obvious that the aged-care sector is still inadequately prepared for higher numbers of active cases in the wider population than the recent peak in Australia.
    Close to 15,000 Australians are presently in permanent residential aged care, with another 5, 000 in shortterm care at any time. Responsibility for regulating the safety of those people lies with the state governments, but those governments appear to be more concerned about shifting responsibility to the Commonwealth, than to do what is necessary to protect the vulnerable in the situation that Levitt claims is the appropriate response to an epidemic involving a harmful viral agent where no vaccine is available.

  73. Lee

    Yes there is. There is a direct contradiction in supporting the government sacrificing individuals for some greater agenda and then turning around and opposing the government sacrificing individuals for some greater agenda

    “Sacrificing individuals”?
    A government which declines to issue a visa to some foreigner isn’t “sacrificing” them any more than a private club “sacrifices” non-members by refusing them admission to the club premises.

    He thinks that foreigners (who have done nothing for this country and who we have absolutely no obligation to) have equal rights to people born or already living here, and can freely come here and the government cannot stand in their way.
    Classical far-left thinking in a nutshell.

  74. Sydney Boy

    frolicking mole:

    2 things

    1: Absolutely correct.

    2: Yes the predictions were wrong – and the reason we didn’t end up like the UK or the US were because of 1 (above). Could have been much worse – but it wasn’t / isn’t. Time to relax the restrictions and deal with localised outbreaks if and when they occur.

  75. Bruce in WA

    That means we will be hit very hard once cold weather (flu season) sets in because very few people actually got this flu. How on Earth will they justify ending the lock-down then?
    Either they keep us locked down until next November, or thousands will die soon after re-opening because we didn’t allow the natural course of this disease….Natural developed IMMUNITY.

    From what I’ve heard, that option is still very much on the table with the “National Cabinet”, particularly if there is a spike after the limited easing of restrictions.

  76. Iampeter

    It is the height of hypocrisy to complain about honest personal abuse while at the same time allowing the sort of dishonest trolling engaged in by our resident pretend Randian. If you’re fair dinkum about improving the level of dialogue, then blatant misrepresentation and a complete lack of good faith in discussion also need to be shown the door.

    That would mean that people like you need to be shown the door. I can’t even begin to fathom the lack of self awareness and dishonesty required to write something like this, but it’s sadly quite common here.
    You know nothing about these topics and have no business on a right-wing blog about politics and economics, getting triggered by those who are not clueless, boomer leftists like you. If you can’t handle it then go pretend to discuss politics somewhere else.

    “Sacrificing individuals”?
    A government which declines to issue a visa to some foreigner isn’t “sacrificing” them any more than a private club “sacrifices” non-members by refusing them admission to the club premises.

    OK, sorry, should’ve known you don’t actually have ANY ideology behind what you’re saying, not even the incorrect left wing one. You’re left wing by default not by intent.
    Let me rephrase it for you then: since you support the government meddling in peoples affairs for random reasons, you can’t then oppose the government meddling in peoples affairs for random reasons.
    It’s a direct contradiction.

  77. Tim Neilson

    Let me rephrase it for you then: since you support the government meddling in peoples affairs for random reasons, you can’t then oppose the government meddling in peoples affairs for random reasons.
    It’s a direct contradiction.

    Poor old intellectual failure Iamashiteater.

    Still can’t understand the difference between:
    (a) supporting in general the government having BOTH power over immigration AND emergency powers in an epidemic; and
    (b) evaluating each purported exercise of either of those powers separately on the basis of the facts applicable to that particular exercise – so, far from supporting any exercise of any government power at any time ever “for random reasons”, evaluating each such exercise only on the basis of clearly defined specifics.

    I notice that you didn’t answer the crucial question:
    Would you insist that we let Chicom virus sufferers into the country freely at this time? If not, you’ve conceded the principle that a sovereign state can in at least some circumstances keep foreigners out for the benefit of the existing inhabitants.

  78. Leo G

    Correction:

    Close to 150,000 Australians are presently in permanent residential aged care, with another 50,000 in non-permanent residential care at any time.

  79. Iampeter

    Still can’t understand the difference between:

    Those aren’t even differences for me to understand. Your (a) and (b) aren’t saying anything.

    One of your issues is that you need to learn to think in terms of fundamentals, then you’ll realize that those supporting regulating immigration are fundamentally the same as those supporting the lockdowns.

    so, far from supporting any exercise of any government power at any time ever “for random reasons”, evaluating each such exercise only on the basis of clearly defined specifics.

    If you don’t have a coherent political theory to apply to those “clearly defined specifics” then all you have are random reasons.

    Would you insist that we let Chicom virus sufferers into the country freely at this time?

    As usual, the only answer to your random question is: who cares?
    What does my position on this very specific question have to do with you responding to the charge that your contradicting yourself and have random positions to begin with?

    If not, you’ve conceded the principle that a sovereign state can in at least some circumstances keep foreigners out for the benefit of the existing inhabitants.

    This isn’t in dispute. It just doesn’t follow from anything else you’ve said.
    It also doesn’t address anything I’ve said.
    As usual it’s not clear what you’re actually arguing about…

    Can’t wait for the next clown to accuse ME of being the one engaging in bad faith discussions.

  80. Tim Neilson

    I said If not, you’ve conceded the principle that a sovereign state can in at least some circumstances keep foreigners out for the benefit of the existing inhabitants.

    You said This isn’t in dispute.

    Good, now we’re getting somewhere. You support governments’ power to regulate immigration.

    But do you consider that supporting governments’ power to regulate immigration requires you to advocate for a total ban on all immigration?

    If not, you’re conceding the principle that it’s justifiable to support a government power being exercised to some extent, or on some occasions, or both, without having to support that power being exercised absolutely on all occasions.

    Now, when you’ve let me know whether you advocate for a total ban on immigration, we can apply these principles to emergency powers and the Chicom virus lockdown.

  81. Iampeter

    Good, now we’re getting somewhere. You support governments’ power to regulate immigration.

    No, we’re not and no, I don’t. We’re just spinning in place as always.
    Let me break this down for you:
    I’m saying your positions are random, not backed by any coherent political ideology.
    I’m also saying you’re contradicting yourself, using your support for regulating immigration vs your opposition to the lockdowns as an example.
    To counter this you would have to demonstrate what your actual political ideology is and then demonstrate how it allows you to both support regulating immigration but then oppose lockdowns without contradicting yourself. That’s it.

    If you knew how to do this then you would’ve responded accordingly in your first post.
    As always you did not, instead going on random tangents and asking random questions that have nothing to do with addressing what’s actually being said.

    Your ongoing responses are actual examples of “bad faith.”
    And that’s giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you’re just “playing” dumb.

  82. Chris M

    “If I was a young person now I would say, you guys are going to pay for this,”

    To which the Boomer replies: “No sonny, you will”.

    Property prices halving would be a start and overall do much more good than harm.

    The caveat being a significant portion of new construction cost is now govt fees and charges which appear to be not halving thus far.

    On topic – how is this guy measuring his ‘herd immunity’ – using crappy Chineese $1 testers from Alibaba?

  83. Squirrel

    Straya’s “panic-stricken, Gestapo-curious politicians” are Gen-Xers – and they’re pandering every bit as much to Gen X and Millenial snowflakes (particularly those with kids) as they are to Boomers and pre-Boomers (of whom there are still very many) who are not in a hurry to meet their maker.

    This is not about inter-generational rights and wrongs, it’s about elites vs. the rest. I fully expect the elites (and their mainstream media/commentariat puppet show) to play their usual divide and rule inter-generational games to the max when it comes to re-arranging the economic goalposts as we come out of the virus crisis.

  84. Tim Neilson

    I said If not, you’ve conceded the principle that a sovereign state can in at least some circumstances keep foreigners out for the benefit of the existing inhabitants.

    You said This isn’t in dispute.

    I said Good, now we’re getting somewhere. You support governments’ power to regulate immigration.

    You said No, we’re not and no, I don’t.

    FMD, Mr Backflip.

    OK, so you think that Australia is obliged to let anyone into the country who wants to come here even if they’re highly infectious with the Chicom virus?

    Straight answer please.

  85. Tim Neilson

    Poor old zero IQ intellectual failure Iamashiteater.

    Too stupid to understand that real life isn’t binary.

    Unable to comprehend that:
    (a) supporting government’s power to control immigration doesn’t mean advocating for a total ban on immigration – it just means believing that there will be some circumstances in which restricting immigration is justified;
    (b) likewise, supporting government’s power to impose restrictions to deal with an emergency doesn’t mean supporting every restriction that a particular government imposes in a particular (perceived) emergency – it’s perfectly possible to believe that some uses of such a power are excessive;
    (c ) therefore it’s perfectly possible, without any contradiction, to support e.g. stopping the boats while NOT supporting e.g. forbidding citizens from gaining protection (via vitamin D) from the Chicom virus by going to a beach or park.

    It’s just intellectually beyond him. What an imbecile.

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