It’s just like politics

It’s actually just like everything where someone can come in second. This is about Michael Jordan. And this is what Jordan said, and while you read it, think about all those people who oppose the American President because he’s not a nice man:

“Winning has a price. And leadership has a price. So I pulled people along when they didn’t want to be pulled. I challenged people when they didn’t want to be challenged. And I earned that right because my teammates came after me.

“They didn’t endure all the things that I endured. Once you join the team, you live at a certain standard that I play the game, and I wasn’t going to take anything less. Now, if that means I have to go out there and get in your ass a little bit, then I did that. You ask all my teammates, the one thing about Michael Jordan was, he never asked me to do something that he didn’t f..kin’ do.”

He pauses as if he could not continue, and then he does: “When people see this, they’re going to say, ‘Well, he wasn’t really a nice guy. He may have been a tyrant’. Well, that’s you. Because you never won anything. I wanted to win, but I wanted them to win and be a part of that as well … That’s how I played the game.

“That was my mentality. If you don’t want to play that, don’t play that way.”

Not just basketball, but everything is that way. Politics especially. Anyone who makes it to the top anywhere – even Miss Congeniality – has a ruthless streak that firstly seeks to learn the rules of the game and then to dominate and win. Most of us cannot do this ourselves and for our values to dominate, leaders who can in-fight on our behalf are essential.

This entry was posted in Philosophy, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

42 Responses to It’s just like politics

  1. stackja

    George Patton upset people.

  2. The BigBlueCat

    stackja
    #3456909, posted on May 18, 2020 at 1:34 pm
    George Patton upset people.

    He certainly upset the Germans ….

  3. Exit Stage Right

    Nice guys come last.
    Never truer than at the moment.
    All our pollies want to be loved (by all sides).
    Find your inner mongrel you bastards and kick arse.
    Alas, I can’t see it happening apart from The Donald, blessed be his name.

  4. Bronson

    Maybe some of our armed forces generals could do with a bit of this, most of them seem more concerned with diversity and removing troop symbols that may offend the enemy.

  5. Tim Neilson

    Maybe some of our armed forces generals could do with a bit of this

    I won’t name specifics, because of the individuals involved, but from what I’ve heard in some parts of the military at least there’s an alarming level of belief that butthurty feeeelz should negate any requirements of accountability.

  6. Iampeter

    Yea but you still need to understand what the game is about.
    As it stands, you’re support for Trump, a leftist President, who ran and won on a boomer leftist anti-trade, anti-immigrant platform, only makes sense in this analogy if you’re supportive of Jordan because you like how he performs, even though you don’t understand what team he’s even playing on or anything about the game whatsoever.

    This isn’t about “getting to the top,” or “leaders,” this is about having a clue as to what is even happening or not.

  7. John A

    Exit Stage Right #3456932, posted on May 18, 2020, at 1:58 pm

    Nice guys come last.
    Never truer than at the moment.
    All our pollies want to be loved (by all sides).

    Which means that all our pollies are living in la-la land. You cannot be in that kind of position without upsetting somebody.

    It’s the same principle of leadership that asks: “Do you ever want to be in a position to have to tell someone to jump out of a lifeboat in mid-ocean?” If not, then a career as a ship’s captain is not for you.

    I could never face that kind of decision, which is probably why I could never handle line management and preferred being a staff heckler as an accountant.

  8. Beachcomber

    If the corona cold virus calamity teaches us anything it is that, with few exceptions, America’s Australia’s political class is overwhelmingly dominated by fascists and totalitarians.

    America’s Totalitarian Ruling Class and Its Willing Slaves

  9. yarpos

    “Yea but you still need to understand what the game is about.
    As it stands, you’re support for Trump, a leftist President, who ran and won on a boomer leftist anti-trade, anti-immigrant platform, only makes sense in this analogy if you’re supportive of Jordan because you like how he performs, even though you don’t understand what team he’s even playing on or anything about the game whatsoever.”

    Thats a lot contorted logic and words to essentially say nothing much at all, but maintain the TDS rage.

  10. Tim Neilson

    Iampeter
    #3456974, posted on May 18, 2020 at 2:26 pm
    This isn’t about “getting to the top,” or “leaders,”

    Iamashiteater, I’m willing to defer to your lifetime expertise and experience in the arts of not getting to the top (in fact not even being able to sustain a position on the bottom rung), and not being a leader (in fact being utterly inadequate even as a follower).

    Especially since the comment you’ve just posted reveals your utter cluelessness about the art of decision making, e.g. the difference between tactics and strategy.

  11. You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life. – Winston Churchill

  12. nb

    I see Trump as batting off the troublemakers rather than going out and picking fights. Sure, he has to be tough. But mean? I don’t see that in him. The degree of calumny he has had to endure is beyond belief. It’s interesting he likes wrestling, played both for laughs and drama. How, in private moments, he must laugh at the Trumbles of this world.

  13. thefrollickingmole

    I’ve had to lead people into situations where it’s been likely they will be hurt. It’s I think, completely different to being one of the “troops” in that I was less likely to let them take risks, even though they were willing to do so. Coming from the floor to “leader” I knew the people I was in charge of and they knew me.
    Would probably make me an in effective leader in some situations though.
    A proper leader needs more mongrel and an ability to see a goal as worth another persons.

  14. Bruce of Newcastle

    A lot of elite people thought Julius Caesar was a tyrant. But the guy in the ranks, who’d had to march from Britain to Rome, then to Egypt and then to Spain, loved him and literally would follow him to the ends of the Earth. OTOH if you asked a Gaul about Caesar I doubt you’d get a polite response.

  15. Lee

    As it stands, you’re support for Trump, a leftist President, who ran and won on a boomer leftist anti-trade, anti-immigrant platform …

    Yes, the real Left is so opposed to open borders and anti-immigration!

  16. Nob

    Or you could get to the top position by just being a willing puppet.

  17. Squirrel

    Yes, but so many would like to go back to Obama-land (complete with rainbows and unicorns) –

  18. EvilElvis

    Funniest bit in the series so far was all the black hangers on whining about Jordan’s lack of input into race and politics at the height of his powers.

    “Republicans buy sneakers too.”

  19. Rex Anger

    Iampeter confuses me. He claims to be libertarian, yet his language is Soviet in its projections, and his arguments could be cut-and-pasted from anywhere on the internet that isn’t here, Breitbart, Quadrant or the Spectator.

    Could he be an anarchist in denial?

    Denial defined as: While the concept of no laws and no leaders is attractive to someone who wants their own way and considers they have the means to make it, Anarchists fail to comprehend (outright ignore) the iron law of the jungle. That there will always be someone who is bigger, badder, stronger and hungrier than you, who will eventually overpower you and make you submit to their will.

  20. Iampeter

    Yes, the real Left is so opposed to open borders and anti-immigration!

    Yep and always have been. These are basically the defining issues of union-member, democrat voters and labor movements the world over. How do you not know this?

    @Rex Anger – I don’t even know how to untangle the lack of understanding you must have to have posted what you’ve posted and that’s saying something here at the Cat.
    But basically opposing a cookie cutter, boomer leftist, like Trump, does not make one an anarchist.
    I think the problem is that you don’t understand that Trump is a leftist because that goes against the random, disjointed narrative you have in place of any actual knowledge.

  21. Andre Lewis

    You do not have to dominate, harass or demand of others to be a leader. A real leader can bring people with them and on to success if those others respect your judgement and see that you act as you ask them to.

  22. Rex Anger

    Hi Iampeter, thanks for confirming what I had suspected.

    You are neither an anarchist who considers himself the ‘purest’ strain of libertarian, nor a liberal (in the classical, pre-Marxist sense) nor a conservative, nor even an easily discernible progressive.

    You are merely yet another ad hominem-spouting troll, and I will leave it to more bloody-minded people than I to bayonet you and wipe their boots with your offence-mongering.

  23. Tim Neilson

    Rex Anger
    #3457810, posted on May 19, 2020 at 11:25 am

    It’s useless to analyse Iamashiteater’s defecations on this site looking for any sort of consistency. To the extent there’s any pattern in his bloviations it’s cult worship of Ayn Rand, and the mental fog that inevitably follows.
    Iamashiteater is also far and away the most conceited, stupid and ignorant commenter in the history of this site.
    Of course he’s entitled to disagree (as he has) with:
    (a) the High Court of Australia, WN Hohfeld and Sir John Salmond about the meaning of “rights”;
    (b) James Madison about how to describe the government set up under the US Constitution;
    (c ) FW Maitland about the basis for the common law; and
    (d) superior Courts of record in Victoria and South Australia on the meaning of “publisher” in defamation law.
    However, he has never once marshalled one single fact in support of his strident absolutist opinions, nor ever addressed specifically the grounds advanced by those he disagrees with. He really does seem to believe that once he’s pronounced some absolutist dogmatic generality, no tidal wave of facts and logic to the contrary can ever refute him.

  24. Rex Anger

    Ah well, us newbies gotta learn some time, eh Tim?

  25. Iampeter

    You are neither an anarchist who considers himself the ‘purest’ strain of libertarian, nor a liberal (in the classical, pre-Marxist sense) nor a conservative, nor even an easily discernible progressive.

    Not sure how I confirmed what you posted above.
    Everything I say is pretty consistent with classic liberalism.
    But as your posts have demonstrated, you don’t know what any of these terms mean, but don’t see that as a show-stopping problem to opining on them with the tone of an expert.
    So, welcome to the Cat, I guess.

    LOL.

  26. Rex Anger

    Not sure how I confirmed what you posted above.

    The instant resort to ad-hom usually does that beyond reasonable doubt, Petey. An actual intellectual would have actually pointed out the flaws in my claim and then explained their rationale. Neither happened. Instead, you belched the same sort of nonsense a vagrant might shout at a lamp post.

    I’ve eaten boiled turnips that had more personality than you.

  27. Iampeter

    The instant resort to ad-hom usually does that beyond reasonable doubt, Petey.

    Um, where did I resort to ad hominem?
    As usual I’m the one on the receiving end of ad hominems while being accused of engaging in them. LOL.

    An actual intellectual would have actually pointed out the flaws in my claim and then explained their rationale.

    What do you mean? You’re the one that came into the thread making all these accusations that suggest you don’t know what any of the terms you’re throwing around even mean.
    Just like Tim, you’ve again responded without actually providing any information and just seem to be getting angry and trying to be insulting, while at the same time crying about ad hominem.

    Ho boy, as if we don’t have enough of your kind here.

  28. Rex Anger

    Okay Mr Peter, let us look at what you said.

    As it stands, you’re support for Trump, a leftist President, who ran and won on a boomer leftist anti-trade, anti-immigrant platform.

    To call one of the most obviously conservative (or classically liberal) Presidents in living history a ‘leftist’ on a libertarian blog is to call his ideological purity into question. Furthermore, you have also challenged the ‘purity’ of anyone who agrees in any way with what he is doing. I see that behaviour from left-leaning posters the world over. It is usually an act.to enforce compliance with their opinions, since anything else is intolerable. Hence my comment your language seems both Soviet and cut-and-paste.

    Your thinking seems to be in libertarian territory here, the concept of ‘I should be completely free to do whatever I want, within certain limits, and nobody and no institution should unduly interfere with me doing so.’ That you have repeated this idea of Donald Trump being a leftist frequently and as an aggressive challenge to all Cats in relation to any discussion of any of his policies suggests that you are somewhat more extreme in this mindset than most. Taken far enough, as your posts seem to suggest your thinking is going, ‘Minimal government’ becomes ‘No government’ and we reach anarchy.

    As I said, anarchy (no formal law or government) is unworkable in practice, as there will always be someone who can dominate you.

    Your immediate response @Rex Anger – I don’t even know how to untangle the lack of understanding you must have to have posted what you’ve posted and that’s saying something here at the Cat. is to insult my intelligence and call me a fool. I have learned nothing and you have not deigned to explain your logic.

    Just like Tim, you’ve again responded without actually providing any information and just seem to be getting angry and trying to be insulting, while at the same time crying about ad hominem.

    Now that you are into schoolyard callbacks and poor me-ism, I think it is time to bypass you and your prodding like the Marines did to so many Japanese-held atools in the Southwest Pacific in the mid-1940s. Maybe with a desultory bombardment as one sails by.

  29. Iampeter

    To call one of the most obviously conservative (or classically liberal) Presidents in living history a ‘leftist’ on a libertarian blog is to call his ideological purity into question.

    I mean, where do I even begin?
    Firstly, conservative and classic liberal are completely different. They have been a in fruitless alliance for a century, which is what has confused you, but they are not the same thing.
    Trump is neither a classic liberal, nor a conservative. He is a nationalist, which is a left wing ideology, although it’s already clear you don’t know what any of that means anyway
    See how after only your first sentence there’s really no where else to go?

    I see that behaviour from left-leaning posters the world over.

    What you see from left wing posters the world over is a level of consistency you don’t see from conservatives who are completely incoherent. Together with not knowing what politics is even about you’ve settled on something like leftist=ideological and coherent, rightist=non-ideological, contradictions, not taking any position too clearly, etc. This is not correct.
    As I’ve explained a few times at the Cat, politics is about individualism vs collectivism.
    Those of us who are actually right wing, support individual rights, rights-protecting government and capitalism. Those who support collectivist ideas like nationalism, socialism, religion, environmentalism, etc, are left wing. I know this doesn’t line up with the superficial talking points you have in place of any actual knowledge, but if you’re genuinely interested in this topic then I would suggest you actually learn something about it. From the very beginning.

    That you have repeated this idea of Donald Trump being a leftist frequently and as an aggressive challenge to all Cats in relation to any discussion of any of his policies suggests that you are somewhat more extreme in this mindset than most.

    Trump ran on old-school leftist policies like regulating trade and immigration, which is why I refer to him and his supporters as a boom leftists. The fact that Cats and you need this explained on what’s meant to be a right wing blog is embarrassing.

    Your immediate response @Rex Anger –

    Has been pretty much vindicated. After your first sentence alone.
    Not sure how you can come back from this, but I’m sure like others here you won’t let not knowing what you’re talking about slow you down one bit.

  30. JC

    Trump ran on old-school leftist policies like regulating trade and immigration,

    That’s just dishonest or shows an almost child like ability to even understand “politics”. Trump’s immigration policy was two fold.
    1. Eliminate as much as possible, illegal immigration.
    2. Improve the quality of immigrants coming in. This line went up until the China bug hit wasn’t reduced in material way.

    You either get up to speed and present this sort of information accurately, or just fuck off back to the padded cell.

  31. Rex Anger

    Thankyou in turn for confirming your obssession with ideological and doctrinal purity, Petey. That the trends of what is ‘left’ and what is ‘right’ in political discourse and thinking is an ever-evolving thing has been lost on you.

    Furthermore, love of hearth, home, nation, family has always been conservative. The dictates of modernism, ‘progress,’ globalism, cosmopolitanism and groupthink always have been and always will be daydreams of the left.

    Please enjoy your desultory bombardment…

  32. Rex Anger

    (Obssession with ideological and doctrinal purity is leftist thinking, Petey…. 😉 )

  33. Tim Neilson

    Rex Anger
    #3458059, posted on May 19, 2020 at 4:10 pm
    *Atolls

    “Atool” actually works better for Iamashiteater.

    PS notice how his long post didn’t contain any facts? Just absolutist generalisations, devoid of any smidgeon of connection with reality.

  34. Rex Anger

    Yep. I see, and am disappointed.

    Also disappointed that I found a link to a lovely colour newsreel of the bombardment of Iwo Jima. But the video has not embedded. I am sad. No desultory (OK, the preparatory fires for the Battle of Iwo Jima were anything BUT desultory) bombardment today… 🙁

  35. Iampeter

    That’s just dishonest or shows an almost child like ability to even understand “politics”. Trump’s immigration policy was two fold.
    1. Eliminate as much as possible, illegal immigration.
    2. Improve the quality of immigrants coming in. This line went up until the China bug hit wasn’t reduced in material way.

    So?
    Firstly, the first action by Sessions was to go after legal immigration by trying to limit H-1 Visas. It’s not really about “illegal immigration” for nationalists.
    Secondly, this doesn’t change the fact that nonsense terms like “illegal immigration” were cooked up by the union and labor movements to fight cheaper foreign labor. It’s been a major cause of the left since before communism.
    The fact that it’s now one of the major issues of the conservative movement shows how left wing conservatives are. The fact this needs explaining shows how politically illiterate those same conservatives are.

    Thankyou in turn for confirming your obssession with ideological and doctrinal purity, Petey.

    Yea but you missed the point. Having an ideology is a good thing if it is the right one.
    Conservatives have no ideology whatsoever, not even enough to realize they are leftists.
    It’s a farce and shouldn’t even be considered a political movement.

    “Furthermore, love of hearth, home, nation, family has always been conservative.”
    Yea and they have also always been leftists.

    The dictates of modernism, ‘progress,’ globalism, cosmopolitanism and groupthink always have been and always will be daydreams of the left.

    This is just a confused package deal, another example of how totally you don’t understand this subject.
    Progress is not related to “group think,” on the other hand things like “nation” certainly is.
    You don’t even know what you’re describing.
    Like I said in my first post to you here:

    But as your posts have demonstrated, you don’t know what any of these terms mean, but don’t see that as a show-stopping problem to opining on them with the tone of an expert.

  36. Rex Anger

    Having an ideology is a good thing if it is the right one.

    How terribly ‘leftist’ of you, comrade…

    Keep on gatekeeping Petey. And abusing anyone who does not match your high intellectual standards (I.E. Everyone). You’re like an angry pimple- Unsightly and painful to encounter but highly satisfying to burst.

  37. Rex Anger

    (PS, gatekeeping is a very leftist trait too, Petey. Ditto projection…)

  38. Iampeter

    How terribly ‘leftist’ of you, comrade…

    No, that’s not leftist of me. Groan.
    Being a leftist means being a collectivist. It’s not determined by whether you have an ideology or not.
    You have no idea what you’re talking about and simply know nothing about politics.

    Another politically illiterate leftist.
    Another great contributor to the Cat!

  39. Rex Anger

    Now that you are into schoolyard callbacks

    Since we are back to this again…

    I Know You Are, You Said You Are. But What Am I?

  40. Iampeter

    Since we are back to this again…

    I Know You Are, You Said You Are. But What Am I?

    What are you talking about? I’m the one that isn’t doing this.
    Let me give you a tip: when you trying to criticize me negatively you will just be describing yourself.
    So don’t bother.

    Also, if you have fall into criticizing me like the other dummies here, then you’re conceding you don’t really know anything, which is what this is really about.

Comments are closed.