If separatism is such misery, do we try integration?

Today in The Australian

That indigenous Australians, who make up 3 per cent of this country’s population, account for 30 per cent of its prisoners is a national disgrace. That by the time they reach the age of 23, 75 per cent of young indigenous people in NSW will have been cautioned by police, referred to a youth justice conference or convicted of an offence in a criminal court — compared with just 17 per cent of their non-indigenous counterparts — makes the disgrace all the more searing.

About Henry Ergas

Henry Ergas AO is a columnist for The Australian. From 2009 to 2015 he was Senior Economic Adviser to Deloitte Australia and from 2009 to 2017 was Professor of Infrastructure Economics at the University of Wollongong’s SMART Infrastructure Facility. He joined SMART and Deloitte after working as a consultant economist at NECG, CRA International and Concept Economics. Prior to that, he was an economist at the OECD in Paris from the late 1970s until the early 1990s. At the OECD, he headed the Secretary-General’s Task Force on Structural Adjustment (1984-1987), which concentrated on improving the efficiency of government policies in a wide range of areas, and was subsequently Counsellor for Structural Policy in the Economics Department. He has taught at a range of universities, undertaken a number of government inquiries and served as a Lay Member of the New Zealand High Court. In 2016, he was made an Officer in the Order of Australia.
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43 Responses to If separatism is such misery, do we try integration?

  1. stackja

    I know of many single parent mothers who in early 1900s kept families in order, no government help. How much of this so called problem is 1970s government policy?

  2. 2dogs

    As I noted on the OT:

    We cannot address the problems caused by counter-productive anti-bigotry because we aren’t allowed to talk about them.

  3. Terry

    @2dogs
    Seven settled…and offered an unreserved apology on-air shortly after.

    They deserve the slow death by a thousand cuts due to those who embrace appeasement of racist activists.

    You cannot appease Fascism. The longer you allow its weeds to grow unchecked, the more young men will be sacrificed on the beaches putting it back under its rock.

    Our civilisation needs a very large dose of “Glyphosate Stimulus”.

  4. H B Bear

    There is a whole industry to ensure this does not happen. A $33bn a year industry.

  5. Struth

    Let me speak completely politically (marxist) incorrect.
    I lived in an area for many years where aboriginal men committed crimes so they could got to jail.
    Seriously.
    They wanted to go to jail.
    So I find all this crapping on from townies about half casts and quarter castes and fuck all castes in places like Redfern pure ignorance.
    It’s a far better life for aboriginal people in jail than it is in their remote communities.
    It’s less violent, you get to clean up and get fed well, it’s a bit like going to rehab with the added benefit of your mates being there and no bloody women.
    If you take Alice Springs jail, out of town just off the Stuart Highway, there is even accommodation for aboriginal prisoners in very low security houses outside the prison walls where many disappear into town for the day to get what they want from the shops, or see the missus, and then willingly head back to prison that night.
    The reason many of those full blood good aboriginal blokes are in jail is because they want to be there to clean themselves up, and have a break from the misery which is the socialist welfare state the racist left within our government have created for them, without our permission.
    I had cause to supply the jail and had to visit many times and the aboriginal prisoners would come and help me unload.
    Never met a happier, healthier bunch of blokes, and it was lovely to see.
    They were happy, clean, sober, well fed, and joking, great blokes.
    I was proud to know them.
    Funny bastards.
    Maybe we should look at the disaster which is over fifty years of our disgusting, murderous socialist scum in our government swamps, that, without our permission, have kept aboriginal people in a socialist welfare hell state called “communities, in complete apartheid, that would see aboriginal men prefer jail than staying in the community all year round.

  6. Walter Plinge

    Nothing has changed since Piers Akerman wrote in a similar vein in The Daily Telegraph on 30 May 2007:

    Assimilation today, however, is a dirty word…Back then, though, it was seen as a beacon of hope. But back then, Aboriginal Australians were healthier, more literate and more employable, though that was to change rapidly as soon as Gough Whitlam and his team of Labor visionaries began dismantling the loose network of missions and out-stations which provided services to Aboriginal Australians and provided them, in turn, with a structure which gave them the opportunity to play a constructive role in society…

    It is easy, particularly in hindsight, to see how things began to deteriorate from that period as the missions were denigrated then removed from the equation, European education was dismissed as a form of colonial oppression, some remnants of Aboriginal lore were reconstituted to provide justification for the abuse of women and children…

    Forty years ago (referring to the 1967 referendum), all Australians saw one people and one future for this nation. Those who have fought against this noble goal should apologise.

  7. exsteelworker

    Easy fix, stop arresting the indigenous. Let them run riot, and when the victims of their crimes call the police for help. Sorry, cant do anything, racisim.

  8. Professor Fred Lenin

    On election I promise to liberate aboriginals off all colours from socialist opression by incorporsting them into society asfull citizens like all the others . They will have exactly the same rights and obligations as all as ther citizens and be treated the same . The huge sums saved by no longer subsidising ghe Racist aboriginal industrybwill bd i[used to retire some of the massive public debt incurred in our name by career politicians and wasted on Racist policies . Discrimination will be abolishe especially so called “positive discrimination “ an over form of Racism .
    Manifesto of the Populist Nationalist Peoples Party .

  9. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From 2dogs at 8:53 am:

    “As I noted on the OT:

    We cannot address the problems caused by counter-productive anti-bigotry because we aren’t allowed to talk about them.”

    I embrace this opportunity to curtsy before people of black colour, notwithstanding I had nothing to do with cotton picking and slaves, because it is fashionable.

    The linked report has someone complaining about privileged wealthy white wymminses gossiping about abos. Do they not realise they will be in real trouble if the white wymminses lose interest, stop gossiping and simply ignore them?

    It features a blue eyed ingenious sheila who also has her snout buried deep in the taxpayer financed yarts free stuff trough.

  10. Roger W

    As I’ve said before, this article, as do many on this site, assumes that a factual, rational and logical argument plays any part in influencing the relevant parties, including those in bureaucracy and government.
    Those days seem to be long past, if indeed they ever truly existed.
    Nowadays, you need to take a knife to a fist fight and a gun to a knife fight, as it were.
    This, of course, makes it a little tricky once you get past three score years and ten!

  11. Ed Case

    **75% … in NSW will have been cautioned by police, referred to a youth justice conference or convicted of an offence in a criminal court — compared with just 17 per cent of their non-indigenous counterparts ***
    17% is still huge.
    That figure still needs to be broken down by factors other than aboriginality, in my opinion.

  12. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Roger W at 9:39 am:

    “As I’ve said before, this article, as do many on this site, assumes that a factual, rational and logical argument plays any part in influencing the relevant parties, including those in bureaucracy and government.

    Those days seem to be long past, if indeed they ever truly existed.

    Nowadays, you need to take a knife to a fist fight and a gun to a knife fight, as it were.
    This, of course, makes it a little tricky once you get past three score years and ten!”

    Having been around that long you will have noticed how any objective, detached statistical analysis disproving the only true truths is swiftly turned on its head and dismissed as mathematically unsound, spawn of the devil, denial and deliberately hurtyful. To state the obvious would see you gaoled:

    You: “They comprise 2% of the population and steal stuff 98% of the time …”

    The stasi: “Oi! Stop right there! Put your hands behind your back, you’ll be coming down to the station for questioning.”

    Similarly the wounded party used be able to brand one as racist and that was that – they won. Over the years that attack word has lost its edge and the primitives have moved on to spitting out other words, like “privilege” and demanding comical rituals such as washing of feet and prostrating by youse effing white c…s.

  13. 2dogs

    The linked report has someone complaining about privileged wealthy white wymminses gossiping about abos. Do they not realise they will be in real trouble if the white wymminses lose interest, stop gossiping and simply ignore them?

    The anti-free speech brigade comes out quite strongly when possible counter-productive anti-bigotry is discussed.

    It makes one wonder if it is deliberate: that they need the people they supposedly represent to stay “oppressed” and “victims”, and counter-productive anti-bigotry is the tool they use to ensure they stay that way.

  14. Rossini

    Problem solved , worries over!
    The Gay AFL teams took the “knee” before the game last night.
    Wankers the lot of them.

  15. mh

    That indigenous Australians, who make up 3 per cent of this country’s population, account for 30 per cent of its prisoners is a national disgrace.

    Not a national disgrace based on that statistic.

  16. Andre

    The 30% would be higher if those violently assaulting their own people in their ‘communities’ were actually charged and brought to justice. Police know what goes on but fail to act because – racist.

  17. Behind Enemy Lines

    There’s a lot of money in separatism. Lots. Billions. The argument isn’t about whether this is any good for Aboriginals. Any honest, sane person knows it’s the opposite, separatism has been absolutely ruinous. The argument we’re having is about who is going to keep getting and spending those billions, and who is going to keep paying those billions.

    People like us are the one paying.

    People on the opposite side of politics (the LibLab Uniparty) are the ones spending.

    That is why it will continue, so long as there is still anyone alive who’s Aboriginal or can pretend to be.

  18. sfw

    The three rules:

    1- Finish High School

    2-Get a full time job, any job.

    3-Don’t have children unless you are married

    If anyone including aboriginals or anyone of any race sticks to those rules thay have an excellent chance of a good and prosporous life. You probably won’t get rich but you probably won’t go to prison and live in poverty.

  19. 2dogs

    Finish High School

    Difficult for a child that is being abused at home.

    There are circumstances, where a white child would be removed from their white family, but an aboriginal child in those same circumstances would not be removed from their aboriginal family.

    But that’s counter-productive anti-bigotry, so we are not allowed to talk about it.

  20. Ed Case

    A white child would only be removed if the father was out of the picture.
    I’d say indigenous children are still being removed, just to indig families rather than white families.
    The system is still corrupt, now the indigs are part of the corruption and get the crumbs that were formerly reserved for whites only.

  21. 2dogs

    Reference

    In determining the level of intervention necessary, the following factors should be considered:

    * the information provided by the recognised entity, for an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander child.

  22. 2dogs

    A white child would only be removed if the father was out of the picture.

    Bullshit.

  23. iain russell

    Any figures on black STDs inflicted on black children by blacks?

  24. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Finish High School

    Difficult for a child that is being abused at home.

    Difficult where your parents host all night card parties, or, in some isolated cases, don’t send you to school for fear of “losing your culture.”

  25. 2dogs

    I’d say indigenous children are still being removed, just to indig families rather than white families.

    Any restriction on eligibility reduces the available pool of families, and consequently the quality. Why not place a child with the best family available, ignoring their race?

  26. Ed Case

    Why not place a child with the best family available, ignoring their race?

    Why would anyone want to bring up some completely unrelated person’s child, apart from monetary considerations?

  27. 2dogs

    don’t send you to school

    Only considered abuse if the child is white.

  28. 2dogs

    Why would anyone want to bring up some completely unrelated person’s child, apart from monetary considerations?

    There do exist charitable souls willing to foster children. There are even more people willing to adopt.

    But the pool is limited, and the shortage is something of a crisis. Putting dubious restrictions on prospective carers doesn’t help.

  29. Ed Case

    There do exist charitable souls willing to foster children.

    Fostering is paid. Perhaps it would work better if it was charitable. Number would plummet though, i’d say.

    There are even more people willing to adopt.

    Okay.
    What is their motivation?
    Do they understand that in the Nature v Nurture Debate, Nurture was debunked long ago, and that cute toddler will grow up to resemble it’s drug addled prostitute mum/dad doing a Life Sentence?

  30. 2dogs

    What is their motivation?

    I have no reason to doubt the genuine desire for familial love in either foster or adoptive parents. Certainly the experience of that among my own relatives (both in and out) has been positive. I don’t think a person’s views on the nature/nurture debate would really affect their suitability as a carer.

    But I accept not all prospective carers are equally suitable, and limiting the pool doesn’t help.

  31. Ed Case

    The Nature/Nurture debate has been finalised.
    Nature won, denying it is pointless.
    Wanting other people’s children is sinister.
    99.9% of the time, children are better off with either their natural parents or their father or their father’s brother.
    Social Workers keep insisting that silk purses can be manufactured from Sow’s Ears, even tho it’s been debunked time and again, so the problems never get solved.

  32. Ed Case

    If anyone was wondering about Nature/Nurture debates, search Separated Identical Twin Studies, to put your mind at rest.

  33. Kneel

    “…national disgrace…”

    Ah – racism, is it? OK, prove it – should be easy enough to show me the relevant law, rule or regulation making this so.

    If justice’s blindfold has slipped, I’d be happy for GovCo to remove all laws, rules or regulations that specify a different outcome based on race of the “offender”/”suspect”/”recipient” etc. Not just one here and there, all of them – regardless of whether the rule provides a punishment or a benefit. Do that and we can all be sure that it’s not systemic, just “bad” individuals, and they can be dealt with easily enough under existing arrangements.

  34. 2dogs

    If anyone was wondering about Nature/Nurture debates, search Separated Identical Twin Studies, to put your mind at rest.

    Certainly studies such as the Minnesota study found a genetic contribution to surprisingly many outcomes (such as political beliefs), but it did not find nurture to be wholly irrelevant. I think it was 60/40 in favour of nature on political beliefs.

    Nurture still matters.

  35. John A

    Struth #3483089, posted on June 12, 2020, at 9:30 am

    Let me speak completely politically (Marxist) incorrect.
    I lived in an area for many years where aboriginal men committed crimes so they could got to jail.
    Seriously.
    They wanted to go to jail.
    So I find all this crapping on from townies about half casts and quarter castes and fuck all castes in places like Redfern pure ignorance.
    It’s a far better life for aboriginal people in jail than it is in their remote communities.

    So they themselves have debunked (or never subscribed to) the theory of “the noble savage”.

    Well, gee, “whodathunkit” as Julius Sumner-Miller once asked? Enlightenment writers plus 20th century “intellectuals” live Sager, Mead, Huxley (Brave New World) have much to answer for.

  36. Lawrence Ayres

    We got separatism because the government and the left told aborigines they were different and that they should be treated in a special way. This encouraged NGOs to establish mechanisms to treat aborigines as humans with a disability which was then blamed on discrimination by non aborigines. The latter group contains not only white Europeans but Asians of every hue plus ME types all of which do not need special help even though many cannot speak English when they get here and have few skills. They do seem to eventually assimilate and prosper. So do many aborigines but the ones that do not join the 21st century are left even further behind to writhe in a despair of their own making, aided and abetted by the ever offended brigade. The cure is simple; stop treating aborigines as different. Treat them as every other Australian without distinction. No more welcome to country, no more aboriginal flag and no more box ticking. BTW Torres Strait Islanders elected to become Australians. They could have been New Guineans but figured they would make more down South. Why they are treated differently to any other immigrant is amazing.

  37. Professor Fred Lenin

    Racism is a disgrace the amount of racial abuse heaped on honest taxpaying WHITE workers by the elites and fauxberiginals is monstrous when are the politicians going to legistlate to make this abuse a punishable offence ? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you ,the grubs do it all the time with their communist media allies . Defund them all totally take our money back from them .

  38. Yarpos

    Its not a national disgrace, its an indigenous disgrace, however they feel no shame over it or show much inclination to change.

  39. Squirrel

    The ABC’s trouble-making on this issue is yet another reason why that organisation needs to be dealt with.

    On the broader issue, the old saying about not being able to unscramble the eggs is very relevant here – particularly the idea that isolated communities can somehow simulate a pre-colonial past when they have access to most of the bad things which are available in a modern, globalised world.

  40. Rockdoctor

    Struth
    #3483089, posted on June 12, 2020 at 9:30 am

    “I lived in an area for many years where aboriginal men committed crimes so they could got to jail.
    Seriously.
    They wanted to go to jail.
    So I find all this crapping on from townies about half casts and quarter castes and fuck all castes in places like Redfern pure ignorance.
    It’s a far better life for aboriginal people in jail than it is in their remote communities.
    It’s less violent, you get to clean up and get fed well, it’s a bit like going to rehab with the added benefit of your mates being there and no bloody women.I lived in an area for many years where aboriginal men committed crimes so they could got to jail.”

    Can back up on this in Townsville from those with skin in the game. They come out in better health than they go in a lot of the time, apparently pre-Christmas is a favourite time to offend & get deliberately caught. Proper Christmas lunch inside.

    Dunlop st Kelso, parts of Vincent and Garbutt near the IGA resemble my memories of south western Sydney as a child, same dysfunction just different clientele… If we started on the sit down money things may change.

  41. Cardimona

    Rockdoctor
    #3483540, posted on June 12, 2020 at 5:59 pm

    Struth
    #3483089, posted on June 12, 2020 at 9:30 am

    “I lived in an area for many years where aboriginal men committed crimes so they could got to jail.
    Seriously.
    They wanted to go to jail.

    Can back up on this in Townsville from those with skin in the game.

    Ditto at Lotus Glen outside Mareeba.

  42. Roger

    sfw
    #3483206, posted on June 12, 2020 at 11:31 am

    Nails it.

    The problem is getting remote aboriginal communities – urban folk have a better chance – to a point where those three things are viable options.

    The only possible solution is integration. But that is racist.

  43. Bob

    Whose “disgrace”? If my family falls apart and ends up in jail, then it’s my disgrace. Not the government’s. Not “society’s”. I own the outcomes of my decisions. Does it never occur to these headline writers that the Aboriginals in custody have actually committed crimes, and in treating them as equal Australians, jail is the equality outcome they had demanded?

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