Hero politicians and “experts” are crisis-ing people to death

Breast cancer patient numbers fall during lockdown as COVID crisis deters women from checks.

We are seeing a similar decline in notifications across other cancer streams as well.”

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35 Responses to Hero politicians and “experts” are crisis-ing people to death

  1. Nob

    Let me quote again from the Cripps et al paper linked to on the other page:

    with epidemics becoming easier to detect, opportunities for declaring global emergencies will escalate.

    Big Brother would be jealous of the CMOs – he never got on telly that much.

  2. Ed Case

    No proof that any more people are dying, just an assumption that if less people are being diagnosed,
    then treated, they must be dead or going to die.

  3. C.L.

    No, Ed. It is not an “assumption” that more people will die when they aren’t tested and/or treated for cancers. That is a firmly established scientific fact.

  4. shatterzzz

    Is it just me or does this piece of gummint-speak sound logical?

    The decrease in breast cancer diagnoses coincided with a temporary closure of Victoria’s breast screening service, but experts say that does not explain the extent of the decrease.

  5. Snoopy

    It’s a shame facemasks don’t provide protection against breast cancer.

  6. Mother Lodei

    The craven leadership of the nation and the states believe they can elude responsibility by handing power over to ‘experts’.

    As with just about everything else, they have got that wrong too. Handing the reins over to someone inept is something for which they can be held responsible.

    And it is a grotesque misunderstanding to think that you must blindly do whatever experts say. Experts are specialists. They have a narrow focus which grants them laser-like insight – very intense, but very narrow. A CMO (even a good one) might know all there is to know about medicine, but not economics, not law, not even physics.

    The person who employs an expert does so that Ye can use the experts insights in weighing up options. When a medical officer says “Lockdowns are the most reliable way to contain the virus” (ignoring for the moment what a contentious claim that is) a leader out to weigh this up with the economic costs and the human costs because the medical expert does not have the expertise in the other impacted fields.

    We do not acquit drunk drivers who have accidents because of mental impairment. We don’t let a guy off because he went out meaning to only drink soda water but he ended up drinking tequila shots was not inking straight.

    We hold them responsible for th decision made while sober to take the risk of drinking. At one sober point he made a decision, and what follows from that is his doing.

    Same goes for PM’s and Premiers.

  7. Mother Lodei

    Frickin’ autocorrupt played absolute havoc on my comment.

    Fur King piece of ship.

  8. Megan

    It’s not from choice that women can’t get a diagnosis. I’ve had a suspicious lump removed in the past, was due for my bi-annual breastscreen in late March. All closed down and appointments cancelled. When they reopened the earliest appointment I could get was late August, later on I managed to grab a cancellation for the end of July. Now shutdown again. Too bad if I have a problem and I’ve missed 5 months of treatment

    All this for .3% of the population who have the stupid virus and the even less who die with/from it. It’s insanity on steroids.

  9. Roger

    I can second what Megan noted: in QLD many public and private clinics across all speciaities are either not fully open or are catching up on a backlog of patients.

  10. Snoopy

    At any other time, a predicted increase in breast cancer deaths would generate shrill calls for the government to ‘do something’. Now the response is “Meh”.

    Providing excitement for pandemic porn addicted Karens of all genders has priority.

  11. Lee

    No, Ed. It is not an “assumption” that more people will die when they aren’t tested and/or treated for cancers. That is a firmly established scientific fact.

    Blindingly obvious I would have thought to most of us (except maybe Ed).
    There would already be many people dead or dying of cancer and other non-Covid-19 diseases and ailments, both here and overseas, because of lack of diagnosis or treatment due to Covid-19 being given priority.

  12. Ed Case

    Well, here’s a woman who regrets getting a scan, wrong diagnosis, plus double mastectomy plus chemo. Plenty more tell the same tale.
    O/T, but good news at the same DT link, Trump has just commuted Roger Stone’s sentence on the day he was due to begin serving time in Federal Prison.

  13. Mater

    An irrelevant article, from 12 months ago, which has nothing to do with COVID-19, or the pending wave of non-virus related deaths.
    Well done, Ed. That’s Numbers level behaviour.

  14. Ed Case

    The relevance is misdiagnosis, which is unlikely to happen if people aren’t attending hospitals
    for checkups every 5 minutes of their lives.
    Now, advice on workplace posters sent out by Health Depts advises people in my age bracket [60+]
    to have a Colonoscopy or Sigmoidoscopy annually to check for Bowel Cancer.
    Call it intuition, but i have this feelz that a decline in uptake of Free Testing ain’t gonna translate into an avalanche of dying a few months [or years] down the track.
    It’s a bit like doubling the Dole and JobKeeper payments, a de facto Universal Basic Income.
    Despite all we’ve been told for generations, the Feds can easily afford it and they always could have.

  15. egg_

    Grigs obfuscating for his Medico numpty mates?
    Quelle surprise!

  16. Ed Case

    The 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S. is something that doctors don’t want you to worry about.
    In other words, Johns Hopkins says 250,000/year [some say 440,000] deaths are caused by medical negligence.
    Would less people attending Casualty result in less deaths all round down the track due to 1. Covid-19; and
    2. Negligence compared to the numbers who died undiagnosed because they didn’t attend out of fear of Covid-19?

  17. Up The Workers!

    All North-facing signs along the Murray River and West-facing signs along the South Australian border should have bold wording to the effect:

    “Warning! Keep Out!

    You are now approaching the deadly Labor Leper Colony of Dodgy Danistan.

    A lethal killer disease called “Labor” is pandemic within the cursed borders of Dodgy Danistan.

    Symptoms are Terminal stupidity, Chronic incompetence, Severe corruption, Crippling criminality, Hyper-Hypocrisy, Debilitating deceit, theft, embezzlement, election-cheating, purse-padding, wallet-stuffing, pocket-lining, trough-snouting, Branch-Stacking, Carl Beeching, World’s most incompetent Labor-Appointed Police Chiefs, Inconsistency in applying the law, Appointment of Trained Party Imbeciles to Judicial and Appeals-Court Benches, Rampant Hypocrisy, Freeing of imprisoned murderers, gangsters and drug dealers whilst locking up innocent Cardinals; the A.L.P.B.C., Channels Neinfacts, 7, 10 and the SBS, Bat-Souping, gerbil worming, rising sea levels, non-sanitised toxic traces of Juliar Gillard, etc.

    Facemasks are required to be worn at all times – regardless of whether you are in the process of robbing taxpayers or not.

    You Have Been Warned!”

  18. duncanm

    Fair enough Ed — no point going to the doc if something feels odd.

    You’d support defunding the medical system, then ?

  19. Rex Anger

    Edgelord-

    Contrarianism works when it is used for the purposes of exploring different angles of inquiry into something. Not when engaged in for its own sake.

    Your posts suggest you think there is something wrong with doctors. Rather than the discussion which is looking at the wholesale and directed collapse of preventative medicine, a field I once worked in, in favour of a hyper-expensive mass mobilisation of emergency and acute care resources (where the vast majority of State Health Dept resources are allocated, and where the most doctors, nurses and bureaucrats are employed), that has consistently failed to demonstrate its utility or justify the resources dumped into it.

    Edgy, you get turned away from Emergency Departments these days if you have cut on your finger. Yet the GP office or equivalent you might visit is shut for fear of coof coof-19. Cancer patients and COPD or asthma people only go to Emergency in the most dire of situations. And their management has been badly screwed up. Worldwide.

    Troll on about medical malpractice Edgy, but nobody who needs to see a doctor wants to be told they are unavailable, and know that going to ED simply loses them a day as all the mostly dead people get admitted and seen to first (Triage is a bastard if you aren’t mostly dead or dying).

    TLDR- Contrarianism for its own sake or to induce outrage is amateurish and a waste of effort. Troll harder or troll off.

  20. egg_

    Even the first lockdowns or national quarantines were criminally stupid, economically devastating, and the people responsible for them should get a life in prison or be executed. But doing the same thing again, for such a long time, even when everyone in the world who hasn’t lost the last traces of the independent brain activity knows that the lockdowns were a pure disaster that has brought nothing positive to virtually anybody? It’s just incredible.

    Luboš Motl on the Melbourne lockdown

    An International laughing stock

  21. MACK

    You ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. Wait till the politicised cardigan-wearing leftist public health “experts” are forced to address the herd immunity question. The verbal contortions will be wondrous to behold.
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-tricky-math-of-covid-19-herd-immunity-20200630/

  22. Ed Case

    Your posts suggest you think there is something wrong with doctors.

    Hi Rex.
    It does?
    1. Here’s the issue: make something free, get more of it.
    Johns Hopkins still has cred, so if they say medical mistakes are the 3rd leading cause of death, that’s right.
    Extrapolating those figures to Australia, somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000 p.a dead from mistakes.
    So it makes sense that if people are told not to attend then some lives will have been saved off the bat.
    2. Has the War On Cancer been a success?
    Judged by survival rates, no, they don’t live any longer than they ever did.
    Numbers diagnosed are way up.
    What wasn’t even considered an issue 50 years ago is now an excuse for overservicing on steroids.
    Bottom line is there is always some person born unlucky that draws the short straw, but since we’re not talking individuals when discussing Health Systems, overall everyone will be better off for not traipsing down to the quack for their free annual checkup.

  23. Rex Anger

    Bottom line is there is always some person born unlucky that draws the short straw, but since we’re not talking individuals when discussing Health Systems, overall everyone will be better off for not traipsing down to the quack for their free annual checkup.

    Not exactly. Preventative medicine in the form of outpatient services, is designed to keep peopleout of acute care services (.i.e Hospitals) where all that documented medical malpractice you are referring to occurs. Specialists in hospitals and non-hospital clinics are intended to diagnose and manage conditions (both acute and chronic) in the community. Where you also have the freedom, right and ability to pick a second opinion if you are not quite sure that the first medico has the situation right.

    In relation to over-servicing, all hospital funding in this country is activity-based, I.E. it is bums in beds that draw money for hospitals. Not the number of, say, cancer or COPD patients seen amd treated in the community, and kept out of hospital.

    Furthermore, assuming that not seeing ‘the quack for a free annual checkup’ will reduce medical malpractice is not a complete story. GPs are first-responders as it were. A patient comes in complaining of X. The GP is supposed to do a few basic checks and take a history, potentially prescribe a blood test or somethjng.else as required, then refer on and up to an appropriate specialist if X does not resolve itself. Basic medicine.

    A specialist does not automatically assume a GP is correct in their suspicions, but will modify or amend the diagnosis based on the subsequent information they obtain. And again, you can go get a second opinion from another one.

    The situation has worsened these days, as GPs will often just say ‘take this’ or ‘do that.’The diagnostician part has been flattened in favour of the hospital system doing the heavy lifting, and GPs being rushed through training and put into the community to assuage fears of lack of service. Especially in country areas.

    I do agree that people get sick and die, and that the best possible care within the limits of morbidity and mortality is about all we can do. However, calling cancer treatments overservicing on steroids is a bit unfair. Diagnostic sensitivity and specificity is forever improving, so citing the statistics is not telling any sort.ofnstory. Let alone the whole one. Ditto QoL improvements with differences and changes to treatment.

    People still cock up and patients get worse and/or die as a result. The statistics again do not tell an entire story about stresses and strains on systems and staff to fix patients and get them back out of hospitals (they are expensive and take up space). You thus get a mess of cyclic readmissions until someone finally get the diagnosis and treatment right, or the patient dies. These are appalling systemic issues that everyone who trests people is painfully aware of, but the bureaucrats, bean-counters and pollies are wedded to this system cos ‘Efficiency’ and ‘Accountability.’

    Lack of or delays to access due to Coof Coof-19 just worsens the burden, Ed. They don’t ameliorate it. It might save a healthier person like you or me being inadvertently mucled about by some Resident or Specialist on their umpteenth Ward Round at Hour No. 15 of their 12- hour shift (Still happens, despite everything they tell you)
    But not a chronically ill patoent denied an admission cos they aren’t.sick with the right symptoms yet.

    I thus still disagree with your statement, but present a few more nuances as to why.

  24. Rex Anger

    @ Ed-

    I worked the best part of 10 years in Respiratory and Sleep Medicine in hospitals in Adelaide and Perth. All preventative medicine work.

    Shit’s a mess, particularly when Sleep Studies were.no longer counted as ‘admissions’ for Activity Based Funding purposes in 2016/17. As Sleep Studies are mostly done i private labs in the commumity, so the federal ABF people decided it was either inappropriate or a rort. So away the funding went.

    The arse fell out of my Department’s budget instantly, as our studies were funding.most of our attached ward, our Pulmonary Physiology lab and our outpatient Sleep and Rep. clinics. I do not think things have ever really recovered since.

  25. Damon

    Since there have been almost no cases of coronavirus in any state other than Victoria, an objective observer would tend to conclude the problem is not the coronavirus.

  26. Professor Fred Lenin

    With so few deaths in Australia is there any evidence the medical people are attributing deaths of other causes to pad the figures ?
    Now we are urged to wear masks whenpreviously we were told they were ineffective,why ?
    .
    Initially we were told it would be disastrous here as winter was upon us and the virus thrived in the cold , why did the Northern hemisphere have so many deaths when it was summer there ?
    Do the authorities really know what they are doing or are they playing it by ear ?

  27. Mater

    Since there have been almost no cases of coronavirus in any state other than Victoria, an objective observer would tend to conclude the problem is not the coronavirus.

    It’s not the corona virus. It the panic surrounding it and the government restrictions implemented because of it.
    Government restrictions have shut down a number of cancer screening and monitoring procedures. It not just a case of scared people not presenting, it’s also screening services being stopped and patients treatment regime being postponed indefinitely.

  28. Ed Case

    The arse fell out of my Department’s budget instantly, as our studies were funding.most of our attached ward, our Pulmonary Physiology lab and our outpatient Sleep and Rep. clinics. I do not think things have ever really recovered since.

    looks like Governments have decided that things that get funded for decades but never show much if any improvement are never going to improve, so shut the money spigot off.
    That’s certainly rough on people in the field, but isn’t spending responsibly what we elect them to do?
    Screening is a high volume/low result activity.
    It’s been done for decades, CBA says it’s time to move on.
    Just my opinion: if any good comes out of the crisis, it will be that low productivity spending gets
    axed, money goes directly to the jobless, so that the only people sleeping in the parks are doing so by choice.

  29. Bill The Bunyip

    Bottom line is there is always some person born unlucky that draws the short straw,

    Well I drew the short straw in February, but contrary to your description of being unlucky, I consider myself extremely fortunate. I asked for a PSA test during routine blood tests last year and after several more tests a biopsy in Feb confirmed a tumor in my prostate. apparently it is an aggressive tumor but by getting it diagnosed early treatment is described as curative. You may think what you wish about the health system and over testing etc. I think that getting my cancer diagnosed and treated early is proof that the system is working well. Presently I am on hormone treatment awaiting the call to get radiation for 8 weeks.
    As I live a significant distance from Perth and our little town does not always have a doctor on duty I have had to do all of the testing and diagnostic procedures in Perth. WA has not had huge numbers of cases in the panicdemic however the numbers of cancer diagnoses has been lower according to the anecdotal evidence of the medical people I have been dealing with. Whether this is a consequence of people not getting checked when they have minor symptoms is beyond my ability to correlate. What I do know is that I am the best advocate for my health and I will get tested for easily curable cancers.
    I disagree with your parting statement overall everyone will be better off for not traipsing down to the quack for their free annual checkup.
    I have a desire to be around for my granddaughter as she grows up in this messed up world. I certainly would not be better off having my cancer spread outside the prostate and eventually waste away from it and nor would my family be better off watching me.

  30. Crossie

    And when all these people are undergoing chemo when an operation would have been enough if checked on time COVID-19 will still be around to finish them off. The curve has been flattened but at what cost? Or has it even been flattened? After all this time we are still dealing with something that should have been over in six weeks if left alone.

  31. Rex Anger

    looks like Governments have decided that things that get funded for decades but never show much if any improvement are never going to improve, so shut the money spigot off.

    You missed my point Edgy. The constant complaints about endless Health spending by august individuals like yourself are almost exclusively related to things that will never display any improvement at all in efficiency or accountability. To wit, Health spending is first put into bureaucratic salaries, then on acute interventions completely avoidable by good first-line preventative care in the community. One decent GP and/or Community nurse can potentially prevent a myriad of expensive and potentially fatal hospital admissions. And that is what is consistently denied in this country, by legislative and bureaucratic fiat.

    That’s certainly rough on people in the field, but isn’t spending responsibly what we elect them to do?

    Yes. But propping up an inefficient, ramshackle and typically shambolically-led acute care organisations is neither responsible nor wise. Nor is abandoning people who are otherwise adequately cared for by community services in favour of some overhyped boogeyman and images of occupied hospital beds.

  32. Ed Case

    And when all these people are undergoing chemo when an operation would have been enough if checked on time COVID-19 will still be around to finish them off.

    An operation is now termed

    invasive

    and they prefer to wait and see how burning and poisoning do first.
    So, no one is being refused a necessary operation, just that elective surgery is on hold.
    totally responsible behaviour, by the way.
    If the Pandemic is legit, you don’t want hypochondriacs occupying the front lines.

  33. Crossie

    If the Pandemic is legit, you don’t want hypochondriacs occupying the front lines.

    Good to know that people waiting for a hip replacement are now considered as hypochondriacs.

  34. Kangot

    @ Ed:

    Re the “war on cancer”..

    The official mainstream “war on cancer” has been an unofficial “war” on the unsuspecting public: to keep them misinformed and misguided about the real truth of this “war.”

    The orthodox cancer establishment has been saying a cure for cancer “is just around the corner” and “we’re winning the war on cancer” for decades. It’s all hype and lies (read Dr. Guy Faguet’s ‘War on cancer,” Dr. Sam Epstein’s work, or Clifton Leaf’s book, or Dr. Siefried’s work on this bogus ‘war’, etc).

    Since the war on cancer began orthodox medicine hasn’t progressed in their basic highly profitable therapies: it still uses primarily and almost exclusively highly toxic, deadly things like radiation, chemo, surgery, and drugs that have killed millions of people instead of the disease.

    As long as the official “war on cancer” is a HUGE BUSINESS based on expensive TREATMENTS (INTERVENTIONS) of a disease instead of its PREVENTION, logically, they will never find a cure for cancer. The upcoming moonshot-war on cancer inventions, too, will include industry-profitable gene therapies of cancer treatment that are right in line with the erroneous working model of mechanistic reductionism of allopathic medicine.

    The lucrative game of the medical business is to endlessly “look for” a cure but not “find” a cure. Practically all resources in the phony ‘war on cancer’ are poured into TREATMENT of cancer but almost none in the PREVENTION of the disease. It’s proof positive that big money and a total lack of ethics rule the official medical establishment.

    It’s just like with any bogus official “war” (‘war on drugs’, ‘war on terrorism’, etc) — it’s not about winning these wars but to primarily prolong them because behind any of these fraudulent “war” rackets of the criminal establishment is a Big Business, such as the massive cancer industry. The very profitable TREATMENT focus of conventional medicine, instead of a PREVENTION focus which these official medical quacks (or rather crooks) can hardly make any money off, is a major reason why today 1 of 2 men and 1 in 3 women can expect a cancer diagnosis at some point in their lifetimes yet that rate was multiple times lower 5 decades ago when the phony ‘war on cancer’ began (1 in about 16). That fact alone proves we are NOT winning the war on cancer.

    At the same time, this same orthodox cancer cartel has been suppressing and squashing a number of very effective and beneficial alternative cancer approaches. You probably guessed why: effective, safe, inexpensive cancer therapies are cutting into the astronomical profits of the medical mafia’s lucrative treatments. That longstanding decadent activity is part of the fraud of the war on cancer.

    If the public were to scrutinize what the medical industry and its government pawns are telling them about the ‘war on cancer’ instead of blindly believing what they’re saying, they’d find that the cancer industry and the cancer charities have been dismissing, ignoring, and obfuscating the true causes of cancer while mostly putting the blame for cancer on the individual, denying or dismissing the serious harms from orthodox cancer treatments and chemical toxicants, and resorting to deceptive cancer statistics to “educate” (think: mislead) the public that their way of treatment is actually successful (read this well referenced scholarly article’s afterword on the war on cancer: do a search engine query for “A Mammogram Letter The British Medical Journal Censored” by Rolf Hefti, a published author of the Orthomolecular Medicine News organization, and scroll down to the afterword that addresses the fraudulent ‘war on cancer’).

    What the medical establishment “informs” the public about is about as truthful as what the political establishment keeps telling them. Not to forget, the corporate media (the mainstream fake news media) is a willing tool to spread these distortions, lies, and the scam of the war on cancer.

    Does anyone really think it’s a coincidence that double Nobel laureate Linus Pauling called the ‘war on cancer’ a fraud? If you look closer you’ll come to the same conclusion. But…politics and self-serving interests of the conventional medical cartel, and their allied corporate media, keep the real truth far away from the public at large. Or people’s own denial or indifference of the real truth.

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