Why is it legal for a state to order a lockdown?

Can this be legal? Why is this incompetent fool, Daniel Andrews, allowed to shut down an entire state on his own say so?

Here’s the latest rumour: Australia Victoria is considering Stage 4 coronavirus restrictions.

Melburnians have been put back under Stage 3 restrictions, but what would Stage 4 look like?
Melburnians have been put back under Stage 3 restrictions, but what would Stage 4 look like? Source: AAP

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Mandatory mask-wearing, additional testing, and forcing businesses to close their doors are just some of the potential restrictions on the cards if Stage 4 were to be introduced.

Seriously, how insane is this?

But after a fifth day of new case numbers over 200 since the second outbreak began, authorities have flagged these rules could be tightened.

200 new cases in a state with 6.5 million people. That is approximately 200/6,500,000 which is 0.003% of the population of Victoria.

Dan Andrews is an hysterical fool. He is a blight on the population of Victoria. Virtually everything that has gone wrong since CV began has been Daniel Andrew’s own personal responsibility.

There is now even a Victorian version of the virus that has been detected in Sydney. It should be named after Daniel Andrews which is all the immortality he deserves as the most incompetent Premier Victoria has ever had.

How can such an order be challenged? If under the present constitution we can do nothing, then we must amend the constitution. Does no one any longer care about their personal freedoms? Is Labor now the party of tyranny?

You are almost certainly not going to die from the Corona Virus but you might yet be bankrupted.

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91 Responses to Why is it legal for a state to order a lockdown?

  1. Leigh Lowe

    The heading is the nub of it Steve.

    Why is it legal for a state to order a lockdown?

    Under the Constitution, I think the Feds can order quarantine but not a state.
    I would have thought the protocol would be for a state to request a quarantine, and the Feds to declare it.

  2. mem

    Spot on Steve. It is wrong and Daniel Andrews needs to be held account.

  3. Diogenes

    Under the constitution states have responsibility for health, the Feds can control “health” of people crossing national border and may order them into quarantine . The states have different laws re health ’emergencies’ and have given their health ministers dictatorial powers. All totally constitutional.

  4. Infidel Tiger King

    The crazy belief that Australia alone can eliminate “the virus”.

    This is stupider than people who think Australia having expensive electricity will effect “climate change”.

  5. MACK

    This is the problem in Victoria, right here. Have a Captain Cook:

    https://vha.org.au/events/protecting-vulnerable-victorians-a-covid-19-webinar-for-victorian-residential-aged-care/
    “Dr Annaliese Van Diemen, Public Health Commander COVID-19 Incident Management Team”

  6. Squirrel

    Legality would be the least of the worries – being seen to be doing something dramatic and decisive is what counts in a world of spin.

    Having proven itself the weakest of weak links an (even) hard(er) lockdown in Victoria – doubtless framed as the elimination strategy lusted after by cosseted Leftists – would be the ultimate irony. After all, what the hell is the point of pursuing elimination, eradication or any other such fantasy if incompetent administration can blow it all up in a matter of days?

  7. Alan

    General extent of legislative powers
    A trilogy of cases decided by the Privy Council held that when not subject to a specific restriction (ie, a “manner and form” provision written into the State Constitution), the powers of State Parliaments were as “plenary and ample” as the powers of the British Parliament itself.
    R v Burah (1878) 3 App Cas 889
    Hodge v The Queen (1883) 9 App Cas 117
    Powell v Apollo Candle Co (1885) 10 App Cas 282
    The colonies became States in 1901. Section 106 of the Commonwealth Constitution provides:

    “The Constitution of each State of the Commonwealth shall, subject to this Constitution, continue as at the establishment of the Commonwealth … until altered in accordance with the Constitution of the State.”

    A State law does not need to be checked like a Commonwealth law against a list of “heads” of power; the power to make laws for the “peace, welfare and good government of the State” (or equivalent) is enough: Union Steamship Company of Australia Pty Ltd v King [1988] HCA 55
    And Victoria knows it.

  8. Snoopy

    The crazy belief that Australia alone can eliminate “the virus”.

    This is stupider than people who think Australia having expensive electricity will effect “climate change”.

    And men can give birth. Fortunately they are all the same people.

  9. the not very bright Marcus

    He is going to need a lot more than 1000 soldiers if he is contemplating stage 4

  10. NoFixedAddress

    Steve,

    He’s not stupid.

    It’s just that the ‘mask’ has been taken off for all the non-essentials to see.

    Dictator Dan is da man.

  11. NoFixedAddress

    the not very bright Marcus
    #3514351, posted on July 15, 2020 at 8:38 pm

    He is going to need a lot more than 1000 soldiers if he is contemplating stage 4

    hollow words.

  12. Boambee John

    Squirrel

    Having proven itself the weakest of weak links an (even) hard(er) lockdown in Victoria – doubtless framed as the elimination strategy lusted after by cosseted Leftists – would be the ultimate irony. After all, what the hell is the point of pursuing elimination, eradication or any other such fantasy if incompetent administration can blow it all up in a matter of days?

    Are they so stupid that they do not understand that an “elimination strategy” can only work in the long term if Australia cuts itself from all future interaction with the world? No immigration, no foreign students, no overseas travel without strict quarantine on return (enforced properly, not by maaaates), none of those things that so delight the cosmopolitan internationalists of the so-called “progressive” left.

  13. MPH

    I’m starting to see why WA kept the border closed, they don’t want to be swamped with economic refugees from the east.

    If this is what it takes to bring the whole leftist charade down then I guess it might be worth it?

  14. Rohan

    Dickhead Dan knows he’s finished, so now it’s salt the earth time.

    Dear Leader Xi would approve.

  15. Perfidious Albino

    Given that Victorian Parliament remains suspended, decisions are being made by Dan’s ‘gang of 8’ and they are actively sidestepping any accountability or oversight from the cross-party Parliamentary Expenditures Committee (the only vaguely not entirely partisan oversight entity still operating), you would like to think the Governor might at least call Dan in for a chat to press him for a clear timetable for a return to parliamentary democracy. Or express concern publicly that the current abbreviated form of governance not continue any longer than absolutely necessary.

    I am not naive enough to think she would ever actually consider any of the Reserve Powers, but she could at least make a show of standing up for democracy.

  16. Visiting American

    I’m not looking forward to returning home. You don’t know how well off you are.

  17. hzhousewife

    What are the criteria of Stage 4?
    Do we face Stage 5 and 6 and onwards, and what do they mean?

  18. Steve

    In NSW last year 2019, 399 people died from Flu.
    In Victoria in 2019, 334 people died from flu. …all over the age of 65.

    https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/find-facts-about-covid-19#nsw-covid-19-statistics
    However, simply put, this thing is a 60+ years old issue….only one person in NSW aged 50-60 has died.
    3329 cases, 2799 recovered, 51 dead = 1.5% dead, all over aged 60.

    Victorian Flu Hospital Admissions in 2019

    https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/about/publications/researchandreports/seasonal-influenza-reports-2020

    Paediatric Flu admissions 375
    Paedatric Flu ICU admissions 42

    Adult Flu Admissions 490
    Adult Flu ICU admissions 41
    Total number of flu cases : 32,254

    From NSW Flu reports for 2019 :

    https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/Influenza/Publications/2019/december-flu-report.pdf

    “Influenza deaths with laboratory confirmation
    For the year to 29December2019, there have been 334 influenza deaths identified using Coroner’s reports and death registrations with laboratory confirmation. (Table4).

    “This includes the deaths of three people reported in the last four week period all of whom were aged 65 years and over. Deaths data are subject to change as new information is received.

    “Table 4: Laboratory-confirmed influenza deaths by age-group and year, NSW, 2017 to 29 December 2019 (by date of death).

    “Flu deaths for 2019 :

    “0-4 years 0
    “5-19 years 0
    “20-64 years 33
    “65+ years 301
    “Total 334

    This isnt about coronavirus, its about a take down of a state by marxists.

    We need to push back on these miscreants and demand they stop the lock downs for a virus that so far in Victoria has contributed to the death of only 26 people

    Its push back now, or we will never get your freedoms back.

    We need to start using these stats in the fight to stop being monstered by the State.

  19. Steve

    https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/Influenza/Publications/2019/december-flu-report.pdf

    “Pneumonia and influenza mortality

    Due to delays in the death registration process, death datafor recent weeks are underestimated. For this reason, pneumonia or influenza mortality data from the three most recent weeks are not included.

    For the week ending 20 December 2019, the rate of deaths attributed to pneumonia or influenza was 0.62per 100,000 NSW population below the epidemic threshold of 1.04per 100,000 population (Figure8).

    Among the 52,347 death registrations in 2019,
    399 (0.76%) mentioned influenza.
    An additional 4442 (8.49%) death registrations mentioned pneumonia.

  20. Steve

    Hey Perfidious Albino, lets see:

    * State in lockdown with no real risk – check
    * Suspended parliament, with no guarantee of return to democracy, Dangerous Dan does business with the CCP – check
    * Police and military patrolling streets like in North Korea – check
    * Draconian powers in place – check
    * Sale of guns and ammo suspended for “safety” reasons – check
    * aAvirus that to date has only killed 1/10th of what the normal flu does – check
    * State owned media acting as aggressive state propaganda outlet ( aka fake news ) – check

    Yep – unless Victorians demand en mass a return to democracy, you will become Australias North Korea….

  21. NoFixedAddress

    But the hospitals will be swamped by the weekend… minimum of 200.

  22. Luke

    And the funny thing is that Victoria is the State for precedents on using the Human Rights Act to undermine legislated restrictions on actual convicted felons. The same Human Rights and civil liberties groups that are now completely silent on the biggest trampling on Victorians’ rights ever in the history of the State.

  23. Luke

    Has anyone seen the Statements of compatibility with the The Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 for the actions taken? Have they even prepared one?

  24. BorisG

    Alabama’s Republican Gov. Kay Ivey issued a statewide mask mandate on Wednesday as coronavirus cases continued to soar across the South, saying at a press conference: “We’re pleading with the people of Alabama to wear a mask.”

    Alabama has reported more than 56,000 coronavirus cases, including more than 2,000 new infections on Tuesday. Approximately 30 Alabama hospitals have limited or no ICU beds available, and only about 12% of ICU beds are available statewide, according to health official Dr. Scott Harris.

  25. Mark A

    BorisG
    #3514598, posted on July 16, 2020 at 2:27 am

    Darwin award? https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-oklahoma-governor-kevin-stitt-45e8c591-511c-4880-bbe7-8b6c7e66fd27.html

    I agree with you on this one but for different reasons.
    You are like Numbers, just sneering and finding fault, enjoying your schadenfreude.

    I on the other hand think that all this mask wearing crap is just window dressing make you feel good
    exercise.
    Keeps out the large airborne particles for sure grant you that, but not viruses.

    If they were serious about protection these would be the ones to wear.

  26. egg_

    https://www.qstation.com.au/our-story.html

    The practice of quarantine began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before offloading on shore. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which means “forty days”. From the 1830s until 1984, migrant ships arriving in Sydney with suspected contagious disease stopped inside North head and offloaded passengers and crew into quarantine to protect local residents.

  27. Mark M

    Why Sweden Succeeded in “Flattening the Curve” and New York Failed

    The reason New York failed to “flatten the curve” and Sweden succeeded probably has little to do with lockdowns.

    https://fee.org/articles/why-sweden-succeeded-in-flattening-the-curve-and-new-york-failed/

    As for masks:
    “Did you ever notice the official coronadoom test requires sticking a long rod up into your skull, the only way to get a good sample they say, but the merest breath seeping out of a mask is enough to infect a stranger?”

    https://wmbriggs.com/post/31675/

  28. Crazyoldranga

    Apropos social distancing, I flew out of Sydney yesterday and made the following observations.

    The 1.5M “Rule” was enforced quite severely while queuing to check in.
    The 1.5M “Rule” was reiterated time and again throughout the Airport over the PA system.
    The 1.5M “Rule” was forced down our throats while waiting in the gate lounge.
    The 1.5M “Rule” was reinforced while queuing to board the plane.

    It was a full to capacity flight and EVERY seaT was taken. If you have flown you know how close to each other you are. Especially on a Jetcrap flight. Which was an hour late taking off because the crew had flown in from Victoria and had to be screened.

    Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right………..

  29. Walter Plinge

    Victorian shadow minister for health, Georgie Crozier, was interviewed on Credlin last night. Miss Crozier said she had asked the government what stage 4 restrictions involved and was advised stage 4 had not been worked out at this stage. No one knows. Stage 4 is an empty threat to force compliance. The Andrews government has no idea what it’s doing and is making policy on the fly.

  30. The crazy belief that Australia alone can eliminate “the virus”.

    There’s also the crazy belief that Australia alone can alter the planet’s climate.

  31. John Bayley

    If you haven’t worked it out already, Stage 4 will be full communism.
    Work places only operating with a specific government permit.
    Permits needed to travel to the next town.
    Barbed wires around the border.
    Guards with orders to shoot to kill & no international travel, unless you happen to be one of those who are more equal than others – i.e. a politician or similar.
    ‘Social credit’ scores as in China.
    And mandatory chip under your skin, for ‘easy tracking & your own protection’, in the very near future.

    And you know what?
    The sheeple will love it and clamor for more.
    Dan will get resoundingly re-elected, with 105% of the vote, equalling the popularity of Kim Jong-Un.

    But we’ll all be saaaaafe…baaaah…

  32. Mother Lode

    Who would have guessed that we would be using the expression Victorian to describe a society that demands of its members a strict dress code, that they refrain from frivolous indulgences such as bars and restaurants, going to the footy etc, and instead to blindly fulfill their duty to the state.

    I can almost see it now – hoisted gloriously above the state parliament the string of coloured underpants (in the tradition of Conroy’s example of symbolising the power of the state) reading “The state expects that every man will do his duty”.

    And may the virus never set on the Viktorian Parliament’s empire!

  33. Normal people will get sick of this sooner or later, even if they support it right now.

    When their kids can’t get married because it is illegal to go on a blind date or join a cycling club or go out for a drink with colleagues,* they’ll start questioning this nonsense.

    We have corona viruses every year and like the flu, they mutate all on their own.

    This is the greatest crock of shit. If us solely designed to make Trump look bad. Of course it is coordinated to some degree? Remember JournoList?

    Dan, Gladys etc, may only be opportunistic power hungry oiks.

    I can’t honour them with cunning or foresight.

    *That’s probably rape in current year.

  34. Who would have guessed that we would be using the expression Victorian to describe a society that demands of its members a strict dress code, that they refrain from frivolous indulgences such as bars and restaurants, going to the footy etc, and instead to blindly fulfill their duty to the state.

    I did hear that Queensland has banned dancing.

  35. Iampeter

    Dan Andrews is an hysterical fool. He is a blight on the population of Victoria. Virtually everything that has gone wrong since CV began has been Daniel Andrew’s own personal responsibility.

    He’s doing what everyone wants him to do, that’s all.
    It’s Victorians that are hysterical fools and are getting exactly what they deserve.

  36. cuckoo

    Haven’t checked this yet but Nein News stated last night that the Vic Department of Health had reported on the effects of the “BLM” protests in Melbourne. According to them, six people who attended currently have covid, but none of them contracted it at the protest. They’re either lying and they think we’re grotesquely stupid, or they’re telling the truth and they think we’re grotesquely stupid. If thousands can gather with complete disregard for distancing, and NOBODY contracts the virus as a result, why on earth are we shutting down birthday parties, barbecues and bar mitzvahs?

  37. cuckoo

    all the immortality he deserves as the most incompetent Premier Victoria has ever had.

    Joan Kirner set the bar pretty high for that.

  38. Lizzi55

    A scenario, what if people did the following:

    did not pay the illegal covid fines (travel freely)
    did not take the pointless covid test

    If enough people did this, would the problem be solved?

  39. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    Having proven itself the weakest of weak links an (even) hard(er) lockdown in Victoria – doubtless framed as the elimination strategy lusted after by cosseted Leftists – would be the ultimate irony. After all, what the hell is the point of pursuing elimination, eradication or any other such fantasy if incompetent administration can blow it all up in a matter of days?

    Agreed. So, why are these loathsome barely functional idiots now pursuing elimination/eradication?

    It’s a question (and answer) that should make anyone with a functioning brain very nervous and even more pissed off.

    What we are witnessing, especially in that shithole Victoriastan is an undisguised grab for totalitarian power and control over the populous.

    The mask issue is definitely one that should involve us rising up and cracking some skulls if required. I will never wear one, nor will I tolerate the state attempting to force me to wear one.

    Brendan O’Neill gets to the nub of the issue here (albeit from a UK perspective, where the issue has become polarised along predictable lines).

  40. Docket62

    Is there not a way we can announce that Victorians will be demonstrating against Lockdown by:

    Declaring a public DEMONSTRATION – Statewide on a given day
    Opening ALL small businesses for trade
    Encouraging EVERY person to leave their homes for ‘shopping’ wherever they choose
    Refuse any testing

    Press release to all major newspapers that Victorians WILL NOT be forced into any further lockdowns and that ‘demonstrations’ will be increasing to ‘daily’ (IE: re opening the state) and get heads on TV letting Andrews know that we will not be subjugated.

    Just sayin….

  41. Docket62

    did not pay the illegal covid fines (travel freely)

    There should also be coverage that all fines should not be paid, and we collectively organise representation to challenge their legality. If enough people get together, the government has no power.

  42. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    If enough people did this, would the problem be solved?

    Mass civil disobedience against of bad/stupid/oppressive laws, regulations and diktats has generally been historically successful, with some notable exceptions, of course. As we supposedly live in a democracy, we should also be able to vote for people who would put a stop to the creeping and increasingly pervasive state coercion we’ve been subjected to over the last few decades.

    Unfortunately, we exist in quite possibly the stupidest country* on this planet, so raising a critical mass to overturn this fascist idiocy would be impossible.

    *Deliberately engineered to be so by collectivists.

  43. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    Docket – good points, but again, this is about rousing enough pissed off people.

    Highly doubtful among such a largely docile, ignorant, subservient and welfare dependent populous – and that’s not including the significant mass of collectivists who are gung-ho for this idiocy.

  44. Mother Lode

    I did hear that Queensland has banned dancing.

    Sounds like the movie ‘Footloose’.

    Is this a ‘Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon’ thing?

    It (the game) rests on the assumption that anyone involved in the Hollywood film industry can be linked through their film roles to Bacon within six steps.

    Elvis Presley:

    Elvis Presley was in Change of Habit (1969) with Edward Asner
    Edward Asner was in JFK (1991) with Kevin Bacon
    Therefore, Asner has a Bacon number of 1, and Presley (who never appeared in a film with Bacon) has a Bacon number of 2.

    Ian McKellen:

    Ian McKellen was in X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014) with Michael Fassbender and James McAvoy
    McAvoy and Fassbender were in X-Men: First Class (2011) with Kevin Bacon
    Therefore, McAvoy and Fassbender have Bacon numbers of 1, and McKellen has a Bacon number of 2.

  45. Docket62

    Highly doubtful among such a largely docile, ignorant, subservient and welfare dependent populous

    Too true, sadly I think any effort would go off like a damp squib

  46. wozzup

    Most if not all states have long since passed State Emergency or Disaster legislation which can be activated I believe, usually by a Proclamation made by the Governor of the colony – err, I mean state and which typically allows declarations / orders to be made by the relevant Minister. The powers to make those emergency declarations and the breadth of them is laid out in the relevant Acts and the terms of any order made under the Acts can apply to the whole state or to specific areas. The Acts may should have checks and balances built in to ensure that the power cannot be misused and there is some degree of accountability but how well this works in Victoria I have not checked. I do know that the Victorian Civil and Administrative Appeals Tribunal (VCAT) has some powers to review declarations by the Minister. (I would not expect a “lowly” Tribunal like this to have much “oomph” or indeed gumption to review orders made but a Minister in the middle of a declared emergency. Especially as the Minister appears to have extremely broad powers including the power to suspend the operation of any Act or subordinate legislation in order to give effect to his orders ……. real power indeed! And quite possibly ripe for a Constitutional challenge.
    In Victoria the relevant legislation is the Emergency Management Act 1986 . Others might care to do some more research on it, I cannot right now.
    BTW the Victorian Emergency Management web page clearly indicates that the State has the problem of State Emergencies fixed – it includes a link to resources headed ” Mindfulness meditations – created with our sector in mind” My mind is now at rest and I am reassured that Chairman Andrews has it all under control. God, spare me!

  47. Roger

    Can this be legal? Why is this incompetent fool, Daniel Andrews, allowed to shut down an entire state on his own say so?

    Because this piece of legislation says he (or the Health minister, to be exact) says he can: Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008 (Vic).

    Good luck getting it amended.

  48. Bruce J

    One week after imposing the Stage 3 lock down, Victoria is talking about extending to Stage 4 lock down to combat a virus which takes 7-14 days to show as an infection. So the cases showing as the current spike have been infected before the current lock down was put in place and the numbers have not yet been impacted by that lock down. Where is the logic of imposing more restrictions before the effects of the current show up?

    It all just confirms the description of an idiot – a person who keeps repeating an action that doesn’t work and expects a different result each time.

  49. Struth

    Dan Andrews is an hysterical fool.

    You’re not very bright either.
    It’s exactly this response that allows him to get away with this.

    He is a communist.
    Do you get that Steve?
    Anyone allowing themselves, at this juncture to blame hysterics or idiocy , even gullibility as to why Chairman Dan is doing this, is actually verging on consenting to it.
    Not to mention willfully blind.
    Helping it along.

    STEVE YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
    Wake up.
    Face reality and stop deluding yourself.

  50. Roger

    This Liberty Quote just appeared:

    The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

    — H.L. Mencken

  51. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    St Ruth – all collectivists are idiots (but not all idiots are collectivists).

  52. Chris M

    He is going to need a lot more than 1000 soldiers if he is contemplating stage 4

    hollow words.

    Indeed; Victorians are very compliant. Besides they voted for this.

  53. Struth

    The state acts are not legal because they are inconsistent with the Australian constituion and whenever that happens they are invalid.
    Section 109 makes that perfectly clear.
    Section 51 states that Quarantine is NOT the responsibility of the States so any activity that is enacted by the state as a quarantine measure is invalid.
    Their border closures are invalid because of section 117 of the Australian constitution.

    How much more fucking proof do you Mindas need to come to the realisation they have kicked the rule of law to the curb.
    In doing so, their laws are invalid and you are not only not required to follow them, I would argue it is your duty not to follow them.

    You are being ruled by the point of a gun, by illegal tyrants, by force.

    Hello, hello, anybody at fucking home?????

  54. Roger

    The state acts are not legal because they are inconsistent with the Australian constituion and whenever that happens they are invalid.

    For better or worse (probably the latter in this instance) the authoritative interpreter of the Constitution is the HC. It’s not at all certain that they would find these public health emergency acts, which I think every state now has, to be unconstitutional. The issue of border closures has come up in several cases and the court has so far leaned towards the view that border closures can be justified in certain extreme circumstances. In the present climate it would take impressive powers of persuasion to convice them that covid-19 was not such a circumstance.

    On the bright side, the Act itself limits the emergency powers to a maximum of six months, although I wouldn’t put it past the ALP to seek to amend that limitation. At that point the HC might be brought in.

  55. Struth

    Wozzup.
    The delegation of power in an emergency situation still involves following the constitution.

    When there is a threat to this nation, an emergency, the federal government is in charge of defense and quarantine.
    If a state needs closing down due to a virus, that is a federal responsibility, not a state’s responsibility.
    Sco Mo and his ministers should be in charge of the lot.

    In other areas, like policing and bushfires states have control.
    They have not one right constitutionally to force lockdowns on anyone due to a virus.
    That is a federal responsibility.

    Constitutionally, it would be more legal for the federal government to close down a state for quarantining, than the state itself.
    No State Government paid Public servant has that right at all, no matter what act they have written for themselves.

    If they had stuck to the rule of law there would be a whole lot less bullshit, there would be accountability but as soon as they left it, we must not agree to be ruled by them.
    Citizens agree to be governed by rule of Law, all have agreed to, not by tyrants.

  56. Struth

    For better or worse (probably the latter in this instance) the authoritative interpreter of the Constitution is the HC. It’s not at all certain that they would find these public health emergency acts, which I think every state now has, to be unconstitutional. The issue of border closures has come up in several cases and the court has so far leaned towards the view that border closures can be justified in certain extreme circumstances. In the present climate it would take impressive powers of persuasion to convice them that covid-19 was not such a circumstance.

    Fuck the high court.
    They have long since been marched through.
    Of course they would read black as being white.
    They’re useless to us.
    It is not for them to adjudicate in this situation.
    It is us, the sovereign people to remind ourselves firstly that we have been wronged, a great evil wrong has been done to us and we are justified in taking action against those seeking to control us illegally.

    But posts as above, still, months later claiming yet the next and then the next, and then the next crime committed against us as just the perpetrator’s hysterical panic, almost excusing it, is immature, it’s cowardice, and it’s purposefully neglecting one’s duty as a sovereign adult member of this civilisation.

  57. HT

    NoFixedAddress
    #3514364, posted on July 15, 2020 at 8:44 pm
    the not very bright Marcus
    #3514351, posted on July 15, 2020 at 8:38 pm

    He is going to need a lot more than 1000 soldiers if he is contemplating stage 4

    hollow words.

    At risk of invoking Godwin’s Law, the tighter the grip Nazi’s had on occupied peoples, the greater the resistance. Ultimately, people will not obey bad law (protest may not necessarily be violent). From my perspective anyway, plenty of people already hold these Health Orders in contempt.

  58. Fat Tony

    You are being ruled by the point of a gun, by illegal tyrants, by force.

    Yeah – they’ve got the guns, we don’t.
    Anyone who has a legal firearm will have it confiscated the moment it is needed against the State.

  59. Roger

    Fuck the high court. It is not for them to adjudicate in this situation.

    Unfortunately, it is.

    The Constitution grants that power to the HC.

    The only way to take it away would be via parliament and a referendum.

  60. caveman

    Media are piss weak ,no pressure at all applied to Dan. Just when you think they will nail him at press conference , they turn to jelly.

  61. Struth

    You are only in lock down if you are obeying an illegal tyrants order…willingly, FFS.
    Get a fine, don’t pay it.
    This comes down to nothing more than cowardice and it has nothing to do with anything else.
    Pure cowardice.
    If you are a free man, can you old bastard coward, compliant surfs, at least look to one young fellow who has more guts than most Victorians put together…………….Tailgunner.
    Or write letters, make abusive phone calls to MSM, chuck banners over road bridges, but FFS DO SOMETHING.

  62. Struth

    Fuck the high court. It is not for them to adjudicate in this situation.

    Unfortunately, it is.

    The Constitution grants that power to the HC.

    The only way to take it away would be via parliament and a referendum.

    If you read the first line of our constitution it states we the people AGREED to unite under one commonwealth, under the one constitution.
    Our constitutions were written in Plain English and not in legaleeze gobbledegook for the exact situation we are now in.
    And when a high court proclaims black to be white and the people can clearly see that they are trashing the constitution, then it calls us, as citizens through it’s plain speaking to challenge this.
    All the legislation in the world is useless, unless freedom is found in the hearts of men.
    This is our time, unfortunately, but it is our time to fight for our freedom.
    Feminisation may have brought us to this point, do you men really think our women are going to fight for freedom now?
    Are they going to save us?

    Lets look at ourselves in the mirror and not forget from who we are descended.

  63. Catcalling Inebriate

    As far as I can see Victorians are going about their business freely. The limitations on clusters make sense and the medicos seem to be satisfied that the virus is managed. You only need talk to someone overseas to understand what a total screw up it is when these simple tactics are avoided. San Antonio, Texas, is now unable to take more ICU cases and is shipping them to Houston. Houston will run out of capacity this week.
    There ‘s a lot of fantasy hysteria here about the government when in fact people are simply – understandably – frustrated and fearful. Panic won’t help.

  64. Lizzi55

    To oppose this, the most effective response, if any, would be a decentralised one, actioned peacefully and in large enough numbers, so the control grid capacity is overloaded. Afterall, the controllers are a minority.

  65. cohenite

    How fucked is this: the floyd bust was good, the guy had a lethal amount of fetanyl in his blood and the cops followed the book:

    https://videos.whatfinger.com/2020/07/15/police-transcripts-challenge-mainstream-medias-take-on-floyds-death-you-did-not-know-this/

    So, at least an arguably legit arrest, no facts to support cop brutality towards blacks, rioting in demorat cities where floyd died and BLM the biggest threat to Trump along with the deliberately spread chunk virus. No wonder some people are paranoid.

  66. cohenite

    Whoops, sorry, wrong thread.

  67. Struth

    As far as I can see Victorians are going about their business freely.

    Then you are either blind or a fucking liar.

    The limitations on clusters make sense and the medicos seem to be satisfied that the virus is managed.

    Not their CMO alerting the media, so another outright lie.

    You only need talk to some brainwashed fuckwit overseas to understand what a total screw up it is when these simple tactics are avoided. San Antonio, Texas, is now unable to take more ICU cases and is shipping them to Houston. Houston will run out of capacity this week.
    All this shit gets debunked later.
    Tired of propaganda yet?
    Do some fucking research.

    There ‘s a lot of fantasy hysteria here about the government when in fact people are simply – understandably – frustrated and fearful. Panic won’t help.

    The government have got everything wrong and every prediction wrong.

    We here are panicking yes.
    But about the right thing to panic about and that is the criminal, unconstitutional acts of tyranny enacted by our governments.
    Grow a fucking brain, and some idea of what freedom is, and what your life will be like without it.

  68. cuckoo

    A trivial anecdote, but it still puzzles me. The day after the latest lockdown, some play equipment at my local park was cordoned off with that orange plastic mesh. I use the equipment for exercise so I stepped over the cordon and did my thing. The very next day, the cordon had been taken down and neatly stacked nearby. By the council or by vigilantes? A few days later, the cordon reappeared, but in a much reduced form: two purely symbolic strips of hazard tape that an arthritic 90-year old could easily negotiate. My only theory is that the council decided people were going to step over the cordon anyway, and could trip and fall doing so, so in order to evade any public liability they set up a purely visual barrier.

  69. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    St Ruth – accusing everyone of cowardice is not helpful – and if it’s any consolation I’m as pissed off about this fascism as anyone in this country.

    However, I’ll believe Victoriastanians are less than gruntled about the fascist actions of Dunderhead Dan Xi Man, his bevvy of braindead bureaucratic Karens and his equally corrupt knuckleheaded union stooges when we see a demonstration in Mosquebourne against his actions that’s larger than the recent Black Imbeciles Matter idiotfests, for example.

    I won’t be holding my breath waiting.

  70. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    My only theory is that the council decided people were going to step over the cordon anyway, and could trip and fall doing so, so in order to evade any public liability they set up a purely visual barrier.

    Correctomundo. That is exactly how such amoeba think (if the process could be dignified with that term).

  71. Struth

    However, I’ll believe Victoriastanians are less than gruntled about the fascist actions of Dunderhead Dan Xi Man, his bevvy of braindead bureaucratic Karens and his equally corrupt knuckleheaded union stooges

    it’s either a fear of a cold or fear of a government, but it only emboldens other state dictators.

    As I said earlier, Dan is not incompetent, he is just showing all the gutless other dictators how it is supposed to be done.
    NSW and QLD dictators are women, and they don’t usually make the best dictators, and need encouragement to enslave, Dan is just leading by example.

    Women who think I am a misogynist might be surprised I would say that, but hysterics may be a bad point with women, but they are only totalitarian with others alongside them.
    Still getting love on facebook.
    Being out in the front waving your balls around when it comes to the crunch is usually left to evil males.
    Which is Ironic, isn’t it?

  72. Lee

    He’s doing what everyone wants him to do, that’s all.
    It’s Victorians that are hysterical fools and are getting exactly what they deserve.

    I’m a Victorian who never voted for him (or ever will), nor approved of a single thing that he has done, least of all over the coronavirus.
    Typical BS from you to tar everyone with the same brush.

  73. Karabar

    His defence will no doubt be that he was just following orders from X1 in Beijing.

  74. Karabar

    #3514661, posted on July 16, 2020 at 7:06 am
    The crazy belief that Australia alone can eliminate “the virus”.

    There’s also the crazy belief that Australia alone can alter the planet’s climate.

    “Some ideas are so damned stupid that only intellectuals can believe them”
    George Orwell

  75. Docket62

    Anyone who has a legal firearm will have it confiscated the moment it is needed against the State.
    Rest assured, that any act by a state to do such a thing will be met with strong resistance. Several state governments (including Victoria) have tried and failed to bring sanctions against registered gun holders. While the SSAA is a paper tiger, the NSC has beaten them back across 3 states. Victoria have lost two directions hearings and will now have to provide evidence to the Supreme court to justify the decision to rescind all Permits to Acquire and to cease the trading of all dealers.

    If such a law were to suddenly be enacted, most would ‘lose’ their guns, and deal with the half arsed ‘consequences’

    I think the term ‘better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6’ or something.

  76. Kneel

    “…only about 12% of ICU beds are available statewide…”

    This is normal – 80%-95% of ICU beds in use is perfectly normal and actually WANTED.
    Why? Because otherwise, it’s a great big waste of money.
    Think, FFS! If I told you that we need $4M to keep the ICU up to spec, and you found out that 90% of it was almost never used, would you be ranting about wasted taxpayer dollars? Of course you would – and rightfully so. But as soon as you perceive a risk that MAY require more ICU beds, suddenly you are scared there isn’t enough? Grow the fuck up.

  77. Tim Neilson

    San Antonio, Texas, is now unable to take more ICU cases and is shipping them to Houston. Houston will run out of capacity this week.

    Texas’ problem is that it’s got a border with Mexico. If that border was protected by a large wall, they’d have less Chicom-virus carrying illegal immigrants spreading the disease.

    By contrast:
    Florida hasn’t got a border with Mexico and has a competent governor, so they aren’t being overwhelmed;
    New York hasn’t got a border with Mexico but has an incompetent governor, so they were overwhelmed – but now they’ve slaughtered so many of their vulnerable their figures are getting less bad.

  78. Catcalling Inebriate

    Struth: I talk to medical specialists who have been very reliable and accurate from day one. (I think also you could do with a good lie down, but then again I’m no doctor.)
    Tim Neilson: I think you will find that the ICU access has zero to do with immigration. (You might like to run a quick eye over any of the Texas news media.) Quite a big problem is the need to bring in people from small towns by chopper, but the main hospitals in Houston have now become unable to accept them.

    I note that an awful lot of this is an attempt to blame someone or other for a virus. The virus don’t care who you are. It’s a nasty one and will take every opportunity to jump. My observation is that despite the lack of lockdown in some places, people are not going to work and are not going to bars and so on because they see the risks. It is common sense.

  79. Docket62

    It’s a nasty one and will take every opportunity to jump

    In your own words “but then again I’m no Doctor”… so perhaps you need to get some I don’t know “actual facts”

    World Population 7.8B
    Covid Infects 12.946M
    Deaths 569,000
    0.17% of the population
    recovery rate of 99.99%

    Its about the same as seasonal fucking flu.

  80. Docket62

    And the ‘deaths’ need to be reduced by 50% because of the mislabeling that has occurred worldwide, well documented and which trump is now trying to bring under control by denying the CDC the stats first.

    In which case its 0.008% of the population which is LESS than the flu.

  81. John A

    caveman #3514822, posted on July 16, 2020, at 10:20 am

    Media are piss weak, no pressure at all applied to Dan. Just when you think they will nail him at a press conference, they turn to jelly.

    No, the media are complicit in the conspiracy, apart from certain individuals in the private sector, mainly at SkyNews.

  82. The BigBlueCat

    It’s Victorians that are hysterical fools and are getting exactly what they deserve.

    You sound like a Socialist when you collectivise like that …

  83. Catcalling Inebriate

    Docket62: when you say facts, do you mean that you take those numbers literally? That is, do you not know that the death rate in northern Italy was about 50% above its seasonal average in the first few months of infection? Bergamao’s local newspaper were the first to look and now there are very many examples in many countries where the attributed deaths do not explain much higher annualised death rates. You might also note that the % of tests returning infections in many parts (notably the US) is still rising.
    Of course if you go away from OECD nations, you fund quite low numbers. Because there is no data. Indonesia is a disaster. Yet its reported cases are quite small in number. We might never know the effect, but it is common – especially in the poorer, high density housing areas – for bodies to be brought out constantly.
    One doctor I am relying on is a specialist in emergencies and runs a very large ICU. Another is head of emergency relief in India. My neighbour is the brother of the Australian heading Singapore’s management of the virus.

  84. Kneel

    “… the % of tests returning infections in many parts (notably the US) is still rising.”

    The US is testing >500k/day.
    The “case rate” is going to go up if you test more people – duh.
    How many are hospitalised and how many are dying?
    Hint: both are falling through the floor, even as “cases” rise. eg, overall death rate is close to what is was pre-covid1984 in the US and lower than normal in many places.
    Time to pull your head out of your arse and look at real data.

  85. Docket62

    northern Italy was about 50% above its seasonal averag

    Northern italy – average age of death 82
    Northern Italy serves as a direct gateway from Wuhan to italy where thousands of businesses were bought by the Chinese over the last 10 years and is now the largest Chinese community in Europe. It was the trojan horse of Europe

    The majority have multiple (more than 3) co morbidities (Heavy Smokers, heavy Drinkers, Overweight and diabetic)

    FFS: A decent cold would have killed these people and your quoting that as an example? Jesus H Christ

    The reason the death rates in ‘poorer’ countries (and I note you didn’t mention Taiwan who ignored all the lockdowns, experienced high infection and very few deaths) is because the reporting of these ISN’T biased. No one is paying them $33,000 USD to hook them up to a ventilator.

    The tests will continue to rise as herd immunity is reached but the population carries the infection. People like Andrews in Victoria are testing cats to get their numbers up so they can increase the positive count – the problem they have is No one is going to hospital and the only people that are dying are 85 and 92 year olds who would have died anyway. In some respects their own testing is belling the cat on the farce of Covid.

  86. EllenG

    Some people here are in denial.

  87. Catcalling Inebriate

    Docket62: we are all going to die, “anyway”, as you say. But the age of COVID victims isn’t uniform.
    They are not all 85 or 92 (not sure how you got those particular numbers: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/06/dr-anthony-fauci-says-the-average-age-of-us-coronavirus-patients-has-dropped-by-15-years-as-sun-belt-states-gets-hit.html
    Also: COVID is not like the cold. Patients have had sustained illness and some lose lung and kidney function.

  88. Struth

    (You might like to run a quick eye over any of the Texas news media.)

    That’s exactly what you should stop doing, you brainwashed coward.

  89. Catcalling Inebriate

    “brainwashed coward”? So tyou are the brave guy struth? Hooning about with scare-tactics and factless rhetoric that is completely at odds with medical expertise?
    People like Struth are the Quislings of the modern era. Undermining society with witless, self-promoting bilge that has only one desire: to make people anxious and cranky.
    Get yourself a pair Struth, and if you want to see heroes go into a hospital ward.

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