“A Terrible Price”

The coronavirus is serious and represents a significant threat to specific individuals, notably the aged or those with existing serious conditions. But Governments around the world have been stampeded into drastic measures by excitable ‘experts’ using their precious modelling and an all-to-willing MSM. Both here and overseas some of the more leftist Governments seem to have embraced the concept of all-encompassing restrictions a little too much.

It is portrayed as heartless to seemingly offer-up our old or ill as virtual sacrifices to the virus. Modern society does not want to be seen as calculating or indifferent to those who rely upon us for their wellbeing and survival. (Notably, this argument is absent when discussing abortion). But the harsh reality is that our grip on life can be tenuous and is often expendable. When a vaccine becomes available (assuming one does), it will take up to a year, and probably more, before the world’s population is inoculated. By then, another version of the coronavirus will be in circulation and thus the cycle continues.

The experts tell us that suppression of the virus with controlled leakage towards a goal of herd immunity is not practical. Those In the high risk categories cannot be adequately protected as we lack the resources. Yet just a few weeks ago, the Treasury Department estimated that the long term cost to the economy of the shutdowns would be around $650 billion dollars and Australia’s national debt is expected to surge past $1 trillion in the next couple of years. Are they saying we couldn’t protect our old or ill for less than $650 billion?

Instead, we have moved from containment to ‘flatten the curve’ to openly talking about eradication. We may as well talk about unicorns.

Separately, I wait with dread when the next batch of suicide statistics are released. In Australia, as everywhere else, our Government’s actions will cause innumerable bankruptcies amongst small business not to mention the millions who have lost their jobs – a large number of whom may never obtain meaningful employment again. Superannuation funds have been decimated and those at retirement age have a much bleaker outlook.

From a financial standpoint, the Government’s slavish abdication to the so-called experts has crippled our economy and there can be no doubt that COVID19 will extract a terrible price from the vast majority, and the bill will take decades to repay.

Speedbox.

This entry was posted in COVID-19, Economics and economy, Ethics and morality. Bookmark the permalink.

84 Responses to “A Terrible Price”

  1. Entropy

    Separately, I wait with dread when the next batch of suicide statistics are released. In Australia, as everywhere else, our Government’s actions will cause innumerable bankruptcies amongst small business not to mention the millions who have lost their jobs – a large number of whom may never obtain meaningful employment again. Superannuation funds have been decimated and those at retirement age have a much bleaker outlook.

    These very real but immeasurable losses can’t be stacked rhetorically against your much loved geriatric grandma though.
    Also, the job keeper program has really made a difference so far. When it ends those things might become more visible.

  2. Mak Siccar

    Excellent post and one with which I heartily agree. I wonder how long it will take these drongos to realise that contact tracing is only practical when infected numbers are very small.

  3. “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,” says CL yet again.

  4. rickw

    Currency Lad, get my email from Sinc. I have a cartoon to go with this which you may or may not like!

  5. rickw

    “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,” says CL yet again.

    You’re such a tool.

  6. Bruce of Newcastle

    The agenda of the Left is control, made more desperate (in their minds) by the existential threat (they think) of climate change.

    Naomi Klein said that climate change gave an excuse for the Left to do everything they had always wanted. Coronavirus does the same, with the further threat of actual death next week rather than threatened death in five, ten or a hundred years.

    More recently when Project Veritas mousetrapped a couple of Bernie staffers they cited climate change as one of their justifications for putting righties in gulags.

    The ordinary people have been saying ho hum about global warming for years, which has incensed the activist Left. So now something has come along which the Left can use to get the control they think they need to save the world (which steadfastly doesn’t need to be saved). Is it any surprise therefore that the Left has gone the full fascist brownshirt with the coronavirus as an excuse?

  7. Karabar

    “When a vaccine becomes available (assuming one does), it will take up to a year, and probably more, before the world’s population is inoculated. By then, another version of the coronavirus will be in circulation and thus the cycle continues.”

    Keep an eye on the latest swine flue epidemic being managed by Beijing.

    Don’t be surprised if it turns out to be deadly after it is sufficiently spread around the world to the satisfaction of the CCP.

  8. Tel

    It is portrayed as heartless to seemingly offer-up our old or ill as virtual sacrifices to the virus.

    The current generation of old people in Western mostly-free-market mostly-democratic nations has lived longer than any generation anywhere and at any time throughout history. They have also for the most part lived better lives, with less hardship than most. The last major hardship in Australia was WWII and even in that case the Asians and Europeans had it much worse that Australians did.

    Personally I think we can thank the economic and technological development for most of that boon … along with a relatively long stretch of peace … and a “high trust” society for most of the 20th century where you generally could presume you would not get ripped off. But I don’t feel like there is some huge debt owed to people who have already done extraordinarily well. Since we have no evidence that locking everyone in their houses does provide any nett benefit to old people, and this whole thing is one giant experiment in political dominance with potentially long term disastrous side effects at every level society … people trying to play this “heartless” propaganda game should be virtually tarred and feathered or at least mocked soundly. The problem is that so many young people have no sense of perspective, and can so be easily led. You don’t hear old people standing up and demanding total lockdown for their own benefit … they ain’t dumb. What you hear is nasty manipulators pretending to act on someone else’s behalf and then presuming authority they never had. Horrible, horrible people … terribly destructive.

  9. Matt

    Face coverings to become mandatory in Melbourne and Shire or Mitchell when out and about from Thursday.

  10. Tom

    You have an eagle eye for what’s important, CL. And thanks to Speedbox as well.

  11. Shorter Tel: old people deserve to die.

  12. Lizzi55

    The only stat that matters is excess mortality, and how this compares to previous years.
    Excess mortality is unremarkable, even in countries like Italy and UK.
    This definitively proves – even if you believe the virus exists – that the pandemic is 100% fake.
    For those interested, fully referenced facts on covid can be found here:
    https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
    Since there is no real pandemic, there is no need to pay the covid fines or take the covid test. Wake up.

  13. Kneel

    “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,”

    OK, let’s look at this a little closer.
    What happens to granny if we totally trash the economy and put public debt at such a level we can’t afford an age pension?
    Granny now has no super payments ($ got destroyed when the economy tanked) and we can’t give her a pension from taxes – the $ just aren’t there.
    So toss her onto the street, let her sleep on a park bench and beg for food. And watch her grand kids live life like people did in the 1930’s and ’40’s.
    OR.
    She can take a risk (which we can do a LOT to reduce) and maybe she will die a few years before she would anyway – and likely a few years of being ga-ga in there too – but she will see her kids and grand kids prosper like her own generation could only dream of.

    Go on – ask her what she wants.
    Ask all the people at high risk what they want.
    I dare you.
    I guarantee you that you are a significant outlier on this Monty – most will go for the risk and you know it.
    I get that you are afraid of a horrible death.
    I get that you don’t want to die.
    But seriously? You want it that bad, you’ll destroy lives to do it? And even try to shame the rest of us into agreeing?
    “You just want people to die!” – umm, no, I don’t.
    “It’s only money!” – sure is, are you saying that future generations can eat bark and worms to save your pathetic hide? “Screw future generations, you must save ME!” is what you’re really saying. What would your grand parents think of that choice, hmmm?

  14. Matt

    Lizzi55 – fully referenced?
    Click the link to check the statement on overall mortality, and it takes me to off-guardian.org
    Not sure that really counts as a reference

  15. Megan

    Monty excellent himself in the best Villiage Idiot If All Times Stakes. All old people are going to die. As will you. In all of human history hiding from bogeymen or infection under the bed has never been an effective strategy.

  16. Megan

    ..excelled. Spell wrecker, I hate you.

  17. Roger

    From a financial standpoint, the Government’s slavish abdication to the so-called experts has crippled our economy and there can be no doubt that COVID19 will extract a terrible price from the vast majority, and the bill will take decades to repay.

    I note that Scott Morrison stated last week that elimination is not feasible and the economy shouldn’t be shut down in the face of a “second wave” of infections.

    He’ll need to argue that strongly in the National Cabinet meeting and win the argument.

    The chap running Victoria…what’s his name? oh yes – Brett Sutton – disagrees.

  18. Catcalling Inebriate

    Lizzie: the Johns Hopkins data is quite contrary to your source.
    On the general proposition that less active suppression of the virus would be an option, has anyone considered what happens to an economy when the viral impact is completely random? Have a look at Indonesia, it is stuffed. Vietnam, on the other hand, is opening its borders to a few countries.
    Perhaps the clearest example now will the US, where the absence of leadership has led to inaction or inertia on the virus. Sweden, we know, has had a worse economic impact that its neighbours.

  19. candy

    Mandatory masks for the worst hit areas in Victoria seems very reasonable plus especial care in the aged facilities and health facilities in general.

    I wonder if mask are provided by government or you buy your own. Buying your own people will just fling them about re-use, never wash, leave on the car seat, a magnet for bacteria or any sort. Let alone polluting the waterways of the world.

  20. sfw

    Sweden hasn’t done that bad, and it hasn’t destroyed the young ones future to give another year or two, to some poor aged soul with dementia and a dozen other serious conditions.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

  21. Shorter Kneel: grannies are old and will die soon anyway, so let’s choke them to death to preserve my superannuation

  22. sfw

    The masks are just an incompetent government and premier doubling down on their stupidity.

  23. Kneel

    “Mandatory masks…”

    Are a very bad idea – unless you evidence that they actually help.
    Hint: the lit-chur-chur says otherwise, or is, at best, unclear – some say yes, most say no.

  24. Megan

    Every single one of those Karen’s demanding we all wear masks and give up our freedoms to save lives had better be prepared to sell their cars and never drive again.

    If you are being consistent, of course.

  25. rickw

    Shorter Tel: old people deserve to die.

    Be honest munty, you only pretend to give a shit about this because your fat unhealthy arse is more likely to die from this than even your average granny.

    Typical left wing POS, “caring” with an agenda.

  26. Roger

    monty, the only person who’s killed any grandmas to date is Andrew Cuomo.

  27. Kneel

    Shorter Monty: “Screw everyone else, what about me, me, ME!”

  28. Rex Anger

    TL;DR MUnted: Herp Derp gonna troll peepul cuz funnee…

    Where’s my hammer?

  29. wal1957

    Dropkick Monty: I don’t care about anyone except me. The younger generation should be greatful that they are going to sacrifice their future prospects so that I can live a few years longer. And Dan Andrews is doing a great job!

  30. sfw

    Monty, assuming that most of those that die (99%+) are very old and seriously ill with other serious medical problems and would likely die in the next 12 months or so. Can you tell me how many years of their future each young person in Australia should be prepared to give up to get these aged people a few more months. There must be a figure you can come up with.
    Say 5 years of impoverishment per person? More? Less? When they lose their houses due to unemployment, how many lost houses per extra month of life?
    How many divorces would you think are fair?
    Lots more questions along these lines but please tell me the answers to these so we know where we start.

  31. Bruce of Newcastle

    M0nty – Cuomo and four other Democrat governors sent infected oldies to nursing homes, thereby causing something like 40% of all deaths that have occurred in the US.

    Here the nursing homes have been very careful to exclude the infected, with some failures. You must have had a flu vaccination to visit one, for example, as I found out a few months ago.

    So why did the Left send infected grannies to nursing homes in the US to kill tens of thousands of innocent grannies? I await your explication, with salivation.

  32. pbw

    A friend returned from Sydney to Brisbane on Friday. He had been staying in Parramatta for about a week with his fiancé’s family, after being isolated from her for the duration of the Queensland lockdown. When Campbeltown and Liverpool were “declared” by the Qld government, he decided to come home a day early.

    He heard that there were three hour delays at Coolangatta so he came back on the New England. He checked the website, downloaded the appropriate form and drove back. At the border were ADF people doing traffic control and Qld coppers throwing their weight around. My friend is in his early 50s and, remarkably, has had no run-ins with police before.

    He presented his form to the copper, who demanded proof of his whereabouts.

    “Where did you come from?” “Port Macquarie” (last stop.) “Before that?” “Parramatta.” (Ah, hiding something, you see.) “Prove it.”

    There was no indication from the website that proof of location would be required, so he had nothing apart from a few random receipts.

    A more senior copper came over. “You’re nervous.” “I’ve never been interrogated by police before.”

    And so it went on. Saying that there had been no indication that he would need proof of location cut no ice with the coppers. Eventually, after checking his receipts and photos he had taken on his phone, they decided he could go through. The copper became ordinarily friendly.

    “I’m surprised how well people are taking this. We’ve only had three who’ve responded aggressively.”

    See how easy it is to run a police state.

  33. Kneel

    “So why did the Left send infected grannies to nursing homes in the US to kill tens of thousands of innocent grannies?”

    I think the more interesting questions are:

    1) Why were such facilities given immunity to prosecutions for negligence in COVID19 deaths?

    2) Why were they forced to accept such people?

    3) Might 1) be related to the fact the the association of owners of such facilities gave $1M to the governors political campaign?

    4) Why are the left saying that NYC, with >150 deaths per 100k (worlds worst rate!), is an example of success, while Florida, with around 10 times less per 100k, and despite a slightly larger and much older population, is an example of failure?

    5) Has NYC reached (or is very close to) herd immunity?

  34. Terry

    ‘What you hear is nasty manipulators pretending to act on someone else’s behalf and then presuming authority they never had. Horrible, horrible people … terribly destructive.’
    +1 Very well put.

  35. Kneel

    “I’m surprised how well people are taking this. We’ve only had three who’ve responded aggressively.”

    Don’t expect it to last – the longer this rubbish continues, the more “aggressive” responses you can expect.
    Also: did you swear to “protect and serve”? If so, at what point will you buck the system? Obviously not closed borders – yet. What about mandatory masks? Mandatory isolation?
    Slippery slopes and all that, right?
    You CAN refuse directions, even “legal” ones – if you have a conscience, you should, if you think it’s detrimental to the public. Will you? And if not, are you prepared to resign? You should be, if your word means anything to you. Given what’s happened, I’m sorry to say I suspect it doesn’t.
    So just swap blue for brown then – it would suit you better in that case.

  36. HT

    #3518119, posted on July 19, 2020 at 12:31 pm
    A friend returned from Sydney to Brisbane on Friday. He had been staying in Parramatta for about a week with his fiancé’s family, after being isolated from her for the duration of the Queensland lockdown. When Campbeltown and Liverpool were “declared” by the Qld government, he decided to come home a day early.

    He heard that there were three hour delays at Coolangatta so he came back on the New England. He checked the website, downloaded the appropriate form and drove back. At the border were ADF people doing traffic control and Qld coppers throwing their weight around. My friend is in his early 50s and, remarkably, has had no run-ins with police before.

    He presented his form to the copper, who demanded proof of his whereabouts.

    “Where did you come from?” “Port Macquarie” (last stop.) “Before that?” “Parramatta.” (Ah, hiding something, you see.) “Prove it.”

    There was no indication from the website that proof of location would be required, so he had nothing apart from a few random receipts.

    A more senior copper came over. “You’re nervous.” “I’ve never been interrogated by police before.”

    And so it went on. Saying that there had been no indication that he would need proof of location cut no ice with the coppers. Eventually, after checking his receipts and photos he had taken on his phone, they decided he could go through. The copper became ordinarily friendly.

    “I’m surprised how well people are taking this. We’ve only had three who’ve responded aggressively.”

    See how easy it is to run a police state.

    I have revealed before I spent about 40 years in Defence. Most of that time in uniform. I thought I was contributing to our nations collective security. I’m appalled at the use of ADF in quasi-policing roles (no problem with “not in anyway connected to policing work”). I’m over 60, but I keep explaining to my family who worry about my health on my behalf, that the greatest I face is being confronted by an over enthusiastic copper or ADF personal demanding compliance with the BS technocratic rules which defy both my understanding of freedom (given the absence of democratic oversight, I don’t remember electing Brett Sutton et al) and any sense of proportionality.

    Chances are the situation will “escalate” quickly. I know I’ll lose, but after 40 odd years in the military, a career as a professional soldier, I cannot help feel a duty to call out the growing authoritarianism of our government(s).

  37. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #3518050, posted on July 19, 2020 at 11:44 am
    Shorter Tel: old people deserve to die.

    Get back down in the basement before you die with them! Play some fantasy football to pass the time.

  38. Some History

    For Montesaurus, “defender” of nonnas, dweller of the first-floor basement

    https://imgur.com/GTpo4qL

  39. 4) Why are the left saying that NYC, with >150 deaths per 100k (worlds worst rate!), is an example of success, while Florida, with around 10 times less per 100k, and despite a slightly larger and much older population, is an example of failure?

    Have you seen the current numbers? Your talking point has some power two months ago, now the situation has completely reversed.

    You can bleat about death rates but they are a lagging indicator, that talking point will last for another week or so then because deaths will spike in red states you won’t be able to use it any more. But by then you will move on to another pack of lies.

  40. No doubt if Trump did an immediate, months long hard lockdown with stringent health directives (*showing leadership* as St Jacinta did) m0nty would be rambling about *Herr Trump* and ‘Murican fascism.

  41. No LS. And also, as it would be the right thing for Trump to do, that is zero chance of happening.

  42. The BigBlueCat

    candy
    #3518077, posted on July 19, 2020 at 12:02 pm
    Mandatory masks for the worst hit areas in Victoria seems very reasonable plus especial care in the aged facilities and health facilities in general.

    I wonder if mask are provided by government or you buy your own. Buying your own people will just fling them about re-use, never wash, leave on the car seat, a magnet for bacteria or any sort. Let alone polluting the waterways of the world.

    It’s a bad idea, statistically speaking. From any random community contact, you have a 0.05% probability of running into any one person who has the virus, and less if they are contagious. Having said that, I wouldn’t want to catch the virus – especially given that clustering increases the probability dramatically. also, the science is divided on the efficacy of masks – they are definitely not worth it if the wrong ones are used or used improperly.

    Yes, I know there are those who say the virus doesn’t exist, and there are those who say masks don’t work at all. I reckon both positions are faulty. My point is that the risk of infection and the dubious efficacy of masks doesn’t justify mandatory use of masks.

    Kneel
    #3518086, posted on July 19, 2020 at 12:09 pm
    “Mandatory masks…”

    Are a very bad idea – unless you evidence that they actually help.
    Hint: the lit-chur-chur says otherwise, or is, at best, unclear – some say yes, most say no.

    Yes, unclear. I would question some v most … though I haven’t done the numbers – have you? (genuine question) I think masks can work, but given the general ignorance of most of the population, I suspect it will end up with even more transmissions within the cluster groups. In non-cluster groups, it probably doesn’t matter.

    I am astounded that Dangerous Dan has taken this route – or maybe not surpised given his Socialist / Totalitarian leanings. If 10,000 protested in the street would he allow it? Oh, wait …..

  43. m0nty:

    Trump has never, ever in his life done the right thing.

    Okay. You’re totally not bent mentally.

    What a sound and totally not paranoid idea.

  44. The BigBlueCat

    Question for Dan Andrews: A few weeks ago, 10,000 protesters were allowed by you to walk the streets of Melbourne in large groups and in close proximity to each other, with the police instructed not to arrest or fine them for breaches of COVID-19 restrictions. If you don’t regret any of that decision, why should Victorians have any confidence in your leadership?

  45. Tim Neilson

    Monty, assuming that most of those that die (99%+) are very old and seriously ill with other serious medical problems and would likely die in the next 12 months or so. Can you tell me how many years of their future each young person in Australia should be prepared to give up to get these aged people a few more months. There must be a figure you can come up with.

    That would be a perfectly fair question if m0nty actually cared about old people.

    He doesn’t.

    The cowardly selfish fat turd is just hiding under his bed squealing with terror, and screaming angrily that no sacrifice is too great for the other 26 million + inhabitants of Australia to make to give him a reduced risk of death that he should achieve for himself by laying off the donuts and getting on the exercise bike.

    Notice how insouciant he is about the death toll in New York? That’s because he’s got no concern that he personally will get infected via a New York granny.

  46. John A

    …and join Rafe’s Windpower Guerillas, although I don’t know what happened to his latest article. I’m sure I saw the title in this sidebar but it’s gone missing.

  47. Monty, assuming that most of those that die (99%+) are very old and seriously ill with other serious medical problems and would likely die in the next 12 months or so.

    That is not a serious assumption in the slightest. Take me for instance, I have 30-40 years left in me but if I get the virus I am roughly a 10% chance to die. There are plenty in my position.

  48. JC

    Monster

    There aren’t “plenty” of you in your position. There are a few sickly people (like you) in that age group who have been instructed to move into the basement and never come out again for the rest of your life. You need to follow that advice.

  49. Iampeter

    Both here and overseas some of the more leftist Governments seem to have embraced the concept of all-encompassing restrictions a little too much.

    This would include all the conservative governments then, like here in Australia?
    In fact, leftist governments, like those in South Korea for example, have not embraced crazy lock downs.
    As usual, conservatives have been as left wing, if not more so, on this issue as they are on EVERY issue, yet still keep discussing it like they are an alternative to the left. Too funny.

  50. gary

    The Cost per “Quality Adjusted Life Year” (QALY) is the economic health measure to determine the cost effectiveness of health treatment. This paper while only discussing the case for a continued shelter in place or partial re-opening in the US, suggests that

    We estimate that shelter in place restrictions need to prevent at least 154,586 COVID-19 deaths [in the US] for each month they are in effect to demonstrate cost effectiveness relative to limited reopening, a threshold which is unlikely to be met.

    Currently the US has 142,877 total COVID deaths (including this guy who died in a motorbike accident but was listed as a COVID death)

    Hopefully an accurate Cost per QALY for the lockdown is calculated at some point to show if the massive cost of the lockdown is justified based on precedent, compared to the do nothing scenario or the alternative of quarantining the elderly and sick, while the healthy members of society went about their business.

  51. Tim Neilson

    This would include all the conservative governments then, like here in Australia?

    If you think that people on this blog regard the Liberal Party as “conservative” that’s a sign of just how abysmal your comprehension skills are.

  52. Lee

    Tim, you’re responding to someone who’d far rather vote Labor than LNP, and always uses leftist talking points and if he provide links, always to left wing sites.
    But we’re all “left wingers”, not him! (/sarc off)

  53. Rockdoctor

    HT
    #3518155, posted on July 19, 2020 at 1:09 pm

    I have never served. My late father however who spent close to 3 decades in uniform would if he was still around share your reservations.

    Know this could be considered hyperbole but my father had deep reservations about the use of military vehicles against the Waco Siege in the US in 1993 when he was in his last years as an officer at that stage. He didn’t agree with it, said the Army should not be used against the population. That is the police’s job. Only time I ever heard him talk about such subjects but he seemed to have a strong opinion on it.

    I like you have no problems with them being used for logistics, at a stretch even passive security at Quarantine Hotels or even guides/marshals/dogs bodies but the actual policing should be left to badged police officers. Just my 2c worth anyway.

  54. Crossie

    It is portrayed as heartless to seemingly offer-up our old or ill as virtual sacrifices to the virus.

    Governor Cuomo did exactly that in New York yet the media love him. He insisted still contagious patients be moved back into nursing homes where they infected others who died in their thousands. But Cuomo is da bomb according to CNN and all other media while Trump is a monster who won’t wear a mask.

    The whole world is upside down.

  55. Crossie

    From a financial standpoint, the Government’s slavish abdication to the so-called experts has crippled our economy and there can be no doubt that COVID19 will extract a terrible price from the vast majority, and the bill will take decades to repay.

    Never mind that, the buzz that government officials and these so-called medical experts get from all that exercise of power is worth it. Besides, polls tell them that we like it.

  56. Boambee John

    Take me for instance, I have 30-40 years left in me but if I get the virus I am roughly a 10% chance to die.

    Now we get to the heart of m0nty’s bleat. It really is all about him and his potential 30-40 remaining years of life.

    Laying off the fatty food and exercising more might be a better approach.

    Back to the basement, m0nty!

  57. Crossie

    Separately, I wait with dread when the next batch of suicide statistics are released. In Australia, as everywhere else, our Government’s actions will cause innumerable bankruptcies amongst small business not to mention the millions who have lost their jobs

    It is scandalous that any government is so blasé about the economic devastation they are causing but particularly the supposedly fiscally responsible governments as Gladys’ and ScoMo’s. I sometime wonder if a Shorten government would have been that much worse.

  58. Salvatore, Social Distance Martyr

    A more senior copper came over. “You’re nervous.” “I’ve never been interrogated by police before.”
    And so it went on. Saying that there had been no indication that he would need proof of location cut no ice with the coppers. Eventually, after checking his receipts and photos he had taken on his phone, they decided he could go through. The copper became ordinarily friendly.
    I’m surprised how well people are taking this. We’ve only had three who’ve responded aggressively.”

    Lockdown has brought a few lessons. The conduct of police has been …less than meritorious.

    Used to be I held the belief that some of the 1920’s version IRA were out of line for hiding in hedges in peaceful rural counties largely unaffected by the Civil War, and shooting a cycling bobby as he pedaled by.

    I now understand why they did it.

  59. It is scandalous that any government is so blasé about the economic devastation they are causing but particularly the supposedly fiscally responsible governments as Gladys’ and ScoMo’s. I sometime wonder if a Shorten government would have been that much worse.

    It’s for your your own good.

  60. min

    Firstly Gilligans Island finished in 1967 , replays not sure , but most would not even be aware that they listened to the professor not the millionaire and never got off under own efforts .

  61. jo

    If it was my granny that died in anursing home that Cuomo ordered covid patience into he too would be dead. No if, but or otherwise. Dead. Really surprised it hasn’t already happened.

  62. Mater

    Take me for instance, I have 30-40 years left in me but if I get the virus I am roughly a 10% chance to die.

    This is where you are going wrong; the basis of your wrongology about COVID.
    The truth is, you really don’t have a fucking clue how many years you have left. You could have a stroke in your sleep tonight, or an aneurysm might burst in your brain in 13 minutes from now.
    When you are able to reconcile this fact, perhaps you can rejoin the real world.
    Most people understand this, and live their life accordingly.

  63. Tel

    Be honest munty, …

    Well that ain’t gonna happen.

  64. Tel

    M0nty – Cuomo and four other Democrat governors sent infected oldies to nursing homes, thereby causing something like 40% of all deaths that have occurred in the US.

    Oh you won’t find him upset over that. Don’t expect either intelligence or consistency.

    This is about politics, saving people is the cover story and no one is allowed to question that.

  65. Squirrel

    Even without the priceless benefit of hindsight, we probably could have achieved better outcomes, with somewhat less economic cost and damage.

    A good start might have been to make the point that the virus doesn’t just kill geriatrics, or younger people with serious pre-existing health issues – although on the latter, advertising which pointed out that the virus is just as much a threat for kids with impaired immune systems (cancer etc.) as it is for people who’ve had many decades on this planet, might have made a difference.

    Beyond that, there’s been all the double standards – not just over the BLM idiocy, but the slowness and inconsistency in dealing with people visiting/returning to Australia.

  66. Steve

    Karabar

    “Don’t be surprised if it turns out to be deadly after it is sufficiently spread around the world to the satisfaction of the CCP.”

    Yep…and dont be surprised if the Americans turn Beijing into a radioactive waste if ut does.

  67. egg_

    “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,”

    The irony that such would be posted on an Economics blog run by a Libertarian.

    Hospitals make life-and-death Care choices daily.

  68. egg_

    “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,”

    We must “preserve” our grannies… so that our grandchildren’s grandchildren will be in penal servitude.

  69. John of Mel

    Have you seen the current numbers?

    Do you mean this “quality” data?

    The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health’s positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

  70. Tel:

    The problem is that so many young people have no sense of perspective, and can so be easily led. You don’t hear old people standing up and demanding total lockdown for their own benefit … they ain’t dumb. What you hear is nasty manipulators pretending to act on someone else’s behalf and then presuming authority they never had. Horrible, horrible people … terribly destructive.

    + lots.

  71. Crossie:

    It is scandalous that any government is so blasé about the economic devastation they are causing but particularly the supposedly fiscally responsible governments as Gladys’ and ScoMo’s. I sometime wonder if a Shorten government would have been that much worse.

    You’ve missed the important part.
    This government is NOT experiencing the economic devastation. In fact, they’ve given themselves a raise!
    Now, here’s a quick question for us all. How many know of someone who died from the Wuhan Zombie Virus? Not just being 96 years old with obstructive airways disease or head cancer, just the WZV.

  72. Just Passing By

    “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,”

    Let’s choke everyone under 70 to death instead. Seems fair.

  73. Ladyredneck

    Oh, it seems I dont understand how to do links, mea culpa

  74. flyingduk

    From a financial standpoint, the Government’s slavish abdication to the so-called experts has crippled our economy and there can be no doubt that COVID19 will extract a terrible price from the vast majority, and the bill will take decades to repay.

    It will NEVER be repaid, the existing debts were unpayable before COVID, and the unfunded liabilities (think pensions, ‘free’ healthcare, NDIS, aged care etc etc etc) are 10 times bigger still. Winter is coming…

  75. flyingduk

    Chances are the situation will “escalate” quickly. I know I’ll lose, but after 40 odd years in the military, a career as a professional soldier, I cannot help feel a duty to call out the growing authoritarianism of our government(s).

    Same same, i have 20 years in uniform with lots of time OS in less salubrious places. I too will be dying on my feet not living on my knees, but frankly I am shocked how meekly the population has accepted, even clamoured for their freedoms to be taken, and how readily the ‘authorities’ … whether they be the sworn police, or the ‘COVID police’ (the Karens, the social distancing monitors, the Bunnings greeters turned ‘separation hissers’ … have embraced their new powers). I now see now how even free first world nations could become Nazi Germany in a decade or less. I can see how the local postman can turn into the concentration camp guard.

  76. egg_

    “We must choke our grannies to death to preserve our superannuation,”

    Let’s choke everyone under 70 to death instead. Seems fair.

    Falling for another one of M0nty’s false dichotomies?

  77. egg_

    The masks are just an incompetent government and premier doubling down on their stupidity.

    Resorting to PPE is at the base of the risk management hierarchy – the last remaining safety “barrier” – an admission of failure of all other control measures available*.
    Sad.

    *I.e. fvcked up Quarantine, Danno?

  78. Michael Cunningham aka Genghis Cunn

    I’m 78, everyone I know around my age and older [none of them in care homes] is overly concerned about Covid-19, even though, Tel, we have not had it as easy as you believe – I was born in bombed-out war-time Coventry and grew up in a poor, fatherless family, poverty then being very different from what is called poverty today. I don’t know anyone who thinks that the economy should be devastated on our behalf or is so self-centred as to think only of our generation.

  79. Lee

    I know quite a few “older” people over 60, and even more over 70.
    None of them think that the economy and current and future generations should be sacrificed on the altar of the proposition that it might save them from catching the coronavirus.

  80. tgs

    pbw
    #3518119, posted on July 19, 2020 at 12:31 pm
    A friend returned from Sydney to Brisbane on Friday. He had been staying in Parramatta for about a week with his fiancé’s family, after being isolated from her for the duration of the Queensland lockdown. When Campbeltown and Liverpool were “declared” by the Qld government, he decided to come home a day early.

    He heard that there were three hour delays at Coolangatta so he came back on the New England. He checked the website, downloaded the appropriate form and drove back. At the border were ADF people doing traffic control and Qld coppers throwing their weight around. My friend is in his early 50s and, remarkably, has had no run-ins with police before.

    He presented his form to the copper, who demanded proof of his whereabouts.

    “Where did you come from?” “Port Macquarie” (last stop.) “Before that?” “Parramatta.” (Ah, hiding something, you see.) “Prove it.”

    There was no indication from the website that proof of location would be required, so he had nothing apart from a few random receipts.

    A more senior copper came over. “You’re nervous.” “I’ve never been interrogated by police before.”

    And so it went on. Saying that there had been no indication that he would need proof of location cut no ice with the coppers. Eventually, after checking his receipts and photos he had taken on his phone, they decided he could go through. The copper became ordinarily friendly.

    “I’m surprised how well people are taking this. We’ve only had three who’ve responded aggressively.”

    See how easy it is to run a police state.

    Odd.

    I just travelled through the border at Wallangarra and it wasn’t anything like this.

    No ADF. It wasn’t QLD Pol checking border passes or questioning drivers, it was someone from DTMR. Two cop cars, maybe 3-4 police and one guy from DTMR.

    Pretty low key, the guy asked a few questions then waved us on (we were travelling from Sydney also).

  81. You may or may not be aware that when an elderly person presents at a Hospital and treatment is required, the Dr. will advise the patient that they may wish to consider NOT to be treated in case of cradiac arrest or other life-threatening episode. The Dr. further advises the patient to consider this option as “they have had a long life… etc.” I have witnessed this twice with my elderly father – who at first interpreted this a “we will not treat you ’cause you are too old…”. Now I know that this is not what’s being advised, however you can see where this is going and what is driving it (namely limited resources and the argument that given a choice of saving a 20 year old or an 80 year old…). So, at a Policy level, Drs. and nurses now are obliged to advise elderly patients that the patient has a choice… a subtle level of encouragement… may in time become actual policy.

  82. LBLoveday

    It is portrayed as heartless to seemingly offer-up our old or ill as virtual sacrifices to the virus.

    Not a problem to Bill Hayden who, when addressing the Royal Australian College of Physicians on the Gold Coast in 1995 said “there is a point when the succeeding generations deserve to be disencumbered – to coin a clumsy word – of some unproductive burdens”.
    .
    I’d put an 87yo drawing a taxpayer-funded Parliamentary Pension of $200k pa or so neat the top of the list of “unproductive burdens”.

  83. How Dr Wolfgang Wodarg views the Corona epidemic. 10 min. with English subtitles:

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