True here too

No doubt Cats have seen the news: Mark and Patricia McCloskey  are being prosecuted for defending their property.

As it turns out, even in the unlikely event of a jury conviction the Missouri governor will pardon them.

But what caught my eye was this line in the WSJ editorial:

… again we have a public official responsible for upholding law and order wink at a mob while treating law-abiding citizens as criminals. 

This is becoming a problem. I think a lot of people don’t realise there are trade-offs that occur at two margins.

People do not want to see police murdering individuals in the street. Simultaneously, however, people also do not want to see mob violence. It is not hard: civil society constrains both lawless violence and mob violence.

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85 Responses to True here too

  1. When you read the history of the prosecutor, it’s easy to understand why she’s doing this.

  2. strayandrongo

    Spot on Sync, also they are lawyers, so even if they are convicted and have senctences pardoned, they will lose their licence so will lose their livelyhood.

  3. strayandrongo

    Bemused? Because she was appointed by Obama and Soros?

  4. Lee

    America is officially stuffed.
    The mob rules.

  5. pbw

    People do not want to see police murdering individuals in the street.

    Like whom, for instance? Whether George whats-his-name was murdered in the second degree has yet to be determined.

    Justine Diamond was murdered in Minneapolis by a Somali-born policeman without a single protest or riot, and the process of the law took its course.

    Michael Brown was not murdered in Ferguson, but riots erupted all over the US.

    Trayvon Martin was not murdered in Florida, but riots erupted in the US, and the Black Lives Matter organisation was formed after Zimmerman’s acquittal to protest Trayvon’s “murder.”

  6. pbw

    It is not hard: civil society constrains both lawless violence and mob violence.

    If it’s not hard, why is it not happening?

  7. stackja

    USA civil society is seemingly finished.
    USA is facing third civil war.
    First was American Revolution.
    Second was Democrats defending slavery. No dissent was allowed by Southern Democrats.
    Now again the Democrats want no dissent.

  8. Scott Osmond

    Civil society has been dead for awhile. Holding anything other than the excepted views can cost you a job or worse. Those in power just give the mob a smile and a nod. God help you if you sit on a park bench when in lockdown or saying you believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. The only thing that’s changed lately is that the mask on the “civil” has been ripped off. Even the “nice” conservatives have begun to notice. Being the left’s house conservatives aren’t enough to save the bowtie crowd.

  9. America’s silent majority will have their voice’s heard in November ……… American Leftards better stock up on the ear plugs .. as the saying goes , beware the wrath of the patient man .

  10. Lee

    I used to know a guy who owned and lived in his shop in Thornbury, Melbourne, about 38-40 years ago.
    One night, about 20-25 years ago, several teenagers broke into his shop.
    He picked up his rifle and shot one teen dead, but as far as I can recall, he never went to jail, and I am not even sure that he was charged.
    Be a very different story these days; most likely he’d be up on a manslaughter or even murder charge, and VicPol would be very enthusiastic about charging him.

  11. C.L.

    The binning of the presumption of innocence everywhere is the real problem.

    I’m not convinced George Floyd was “murdered.”
    Chauvin did not arrive on that scene intending to unlawfully kill him for the benefit of his many videographers. Floyd was off his scone, frothing at the mouth, stiffening seizure-like, heavily drugged and physically massive. I believe Chauvin believed he was restraining him for good reason – including the well-being of Floyd himself.
    Based on the radio transcript, I would acquit if I was a juryman.

  12. They were in a gated community on a private road.

    If you cannot draw any weapon on your own land, then you have no right to self defence.

  13. again we have a public official responsible for upholding law and order wink at a mob while treating law-abiding citizens as criminals.

    Mmyes, it is poor form for the governor to wink at the alt-right mob and pretend the peaceful protestors were the aggressors.

  14. C.L.

    I dunno about Mr McCloskey but I wouldn’t fuck around with the Mrs.

  15. calli

    It is not hard: civil society constrains both lawless violence and mob violence.

    The idea is not hard. The exercise of it in life is.

    Self-control, regard of others before oneself, respect for righteousness.

    These things are hard. Because we live in a post-Christian world, where the vestiges are not even taught to the young. Forget “belief” – you either do or you don’t. The grease of the belief of others is what the West has been sliding forward on for about fifty years.

    Eventually it runs out.

  16. pete m

    1. They were entitled to defend their property. Law on this is crystal clear. When you have dozens of people, some of whom were armed, break down a fence and yell abuse and threats, stand your ground easily covers their reaction. They were licensed gun owners.
    2. The guns were not loaded (not many know this / not widely reported). The pistol was a Court exhibit and no bullets were owned for it. The AR 15 was not loaded, and he never placed his finger on the trigger or took the safety off. The prosecutor KNEW this but still laid charges. She has had a complaint made against her over this.
    3. The AG has applied for the criminal charges to be dismissed. VERY likely the Court will go with this.

    They will not be convicted.

  17. EllenG

    The woman has her finger on the trigger and is pointing the weapon at people. She should not be allowed to own a gun. The man has a military weapon and is threatening people.
    Why is this not criminal behaviour? Why is Sinclair defending it?

  18. Ellen – you are obviously a rape advocate. Mrs Mc was threatened with rape.

    Tell us if you’re running for public office with your pro-rape agenda.

  19. calli

    The mere fact that they have been prosecuted will deter others.

  20. Bronson

    Monty you’re out of the basement? What run out of ice-cream and baked beans? Hope you’ve got good ventilation and remember no naked flames in confined spaces.

  21. Hang on, I read these charges were dropped. I’ll check where.

  22. Bemused? Because she was appointed by Obama and Soros?

    She has a history of being, let’s say, one-sided.

  23. Bear Necessities

    Mmyes, it is poor form for the governor to wink at the alt-right mob and pretend the peaceful protestors were the aggressors.

    Very peaceful. Broke the gate and came onto private property. Over a hundred of them.

    Do the research Monty!

  24. Lee

    “Peaceful protestors”

    Pfft!
    Easy for Monty and Ellen to talk; they have never had their homes invaded and threatened by a large mob.

  25. No one’s home was invaded. They walked past the McCloskey house without entering their property. There was no justification for menacing peaceful pedestrians with weapons.

  26. EllenG

    Sedition: what??? Evidence please.
    The video shows the husband shouting with gun from the porch and later the two come out of their very solid front door onto the street to poke guns at people. There is nothing in any report or video that suggests either of them could have even heard people, let alone heard threats.

  27. notafan

    It was a private gated street and protestors broke through it.

  28. 2dogs

    They walked past the McCloskey house without entering their property.

    No, they had already entered private property. They were trespassing.

  29. The Manager

    OK, that’s in the USA
    (Yes btw Hudor, I read charges were dropped)
    Anyway, here in Aus, just supposing I happened to be cleaning my licenced rifle, the ammo is in its safe, and
    an uninvited person appears on my property making threats to me and I pointed said unloaded rifle at him.
    Am I in the shit?

  30. Yes, at least in NSW and Victoria.

    The farmer near Albury who detained a would be home invader with his .22 LR.

    The guy working and sleeping in his home/factory in Melbin who shot a home invader dead and Justice Lasry smashed him because he had the audacity to drink and smoke pot before being the victim of a home invasion.

  31. The Manager

    PS Monty and Ellen G
    They were not peaceful pedestrians.
    LOL Monty “peaceful pedestrians with weapons”

  32. 2dogs

    I suspect this case might not pass the committal stage. The brandishing charge is essentially one of making a threat; but an element of this crime is that you have to threaten a person. This seems likely to mean threaten a specific person. The prosecutor will end up having to identify specific protesters that Patricia McCloskey pointed her pistol at, compile evidence showing that specific pointing, and get that particular protester to testify.

  33. The Manager

    OK
    I’d better make sure I’m not pissed or stoned.
    On the other hand…

  34. The Manager

    Dot, wasn’t there another case where a failed burglar fell through a roof that gave way, damaged himself without any help from the owner and the proceeded to sue for damages?

  35. Professor Fred Lenin

    This is curren form for the decromat criminal party I say criminal look at Obamas book deal ,Bidens Ukraine and China antics ,the Clintons “foundation” . The egging on of fascist marxist thugs to destroy peoples faith in the law defunding police its all to get rid of Trump hes upsetting the gravy train . The several attempted coups which failed to impeach the lawfully elected Presidentall contived to maintain their hold on the gravy train . Socialist fascists around the western countries now have great difficulty in accepting rejection by the voters ,look at UK Labour and Australian Labor they couldnt believe they were rejected as the muppets the peopleknow they are ,seems incompetence ,lying corruption are left traits .
    Career politics is a corrupt form of government career politicians are corrupt and should be abolished .

  36. Davey Boy

    It would have been more fitting for the McCloskeys to use a sjambok

  37. No, they had already entered private property.

    Show me the case law supporting Stand Your Ground on private streets. Very different ownership structure to a private residence, and different laws.

  38. notafan

    The case is dropped.

    They came outside because people were yelling threats.

    Let’s see what you’d do if 500 people were yelling abuse and threats at the edge of your property.

    Anyhow like Pell 7 0 the matter is over.

    No charges.

  39. Boambee John

    m0nty
    #3521671, posted on July 22, 2020 at 7:05 pm
    again we have a public official responsible for upholding law and order wink at a mob while treating law-abiding citizens as criminals.

    Mmyes, it is poor form for the governor to wink at the alt-right mob and pretend the peaceful protestors were the aggressors.

    Do try to keep up m0nty.

    Breaking down a gate to enter private property and threaten residents hardly deserves the description “peaceful”.

    Back to the basement, stick to playing fantasy football.

  40. Show me the case law supporting Stand Your Ground on private streets. Very different ownership structure to a private residence, and different laws.

    Shut up you imbecile.

  41. Ah LS, so you can’t show me case law to support your claim. Good to know.

  42. Rex Anger

    Which state, dirtbag?

    ‘Stand Your Ground’ as a media soundbite may not encapsulate what the statutes are in the different states of the US.

    And any MSM source you may attempt to cite will have wilfully chosen to misrepresent things in order to advance the Narrative, mUnted…

  43. rickw

    There’s some pretty dumb comments by munty and ellen.

    When there’s 500 shit bags out the front of my house and they have form for rape, murder and destruction, guess what, I’m not thumbing through case law and state law to work out what the hell I may and may not be doing.

    If you have any sense of responsibility for the safety of your community, wife and children then you’d be doing exactly what the McClosky’s did.

    By the way fucksticks, the aggressive show of force by the McClosky’s saved black lives and the white lives of their douche accomplices. None of them tried anything.

  44. m0nty
    #3521917, posted on July 22, 2020 at 9:32 pm

    Ah LS, so you can’t show me case law to support your claim. Good to know.

    Can you show me case law for a violent mob having the right to knock down gates to private roads and threaten people with rape?

    You offensively stupid turd.

    You are backing violent mobs of idiots.

    What you are doing does nothing to help prevent racism or minimise police brutality.

  45. the aggressive show of force by the McClosky’s saved black lives and the white lives of their douche accomplices. None of them tried anything.

    Luckily, the McCloskeys also had one of those anti-tiger rocks which prevented tiger attacks.

  46. mundi

    The fact that they didn’t have bullets is amazing.

    It means they knew the mob was a bunch of cowards who had never had anyone stand up to them, and they were right.

  47. Rex Anger

    @ mundi-

    Breitbart’s reporting suggests that on the other hand, protesters in the crowd were running about openly brandishing both firearms and ammunition, as well as making threats.

    Very fortunately, the McCloskey’s bluff worked. And even more so that the Antifa mob were even more cowardly. Or well-trained.

    There is a strong suggestion out there that the paid agitators have been intensively briefed on what the breakpoint is for their provocations, and they will repeatedly come as close to that breakpoint as they dare withput actually crossing it. The firearms and ammo-wielders may have been trying to provoke a lethal response, to which they could then either claim a propaganda victory, or justify shooting them in ‘self-defence.’ You cannot put anything past these street thugs any more…

  48. 2dogs

    Show me the case law supporting Stand Your Ground on private streets.

    Case law? This area is predominately covered by statute.

  49. C.L:
    Georgy Boy wasn’t murdered. He committed suicide by taking a lethal dose of Fentanyl.
    That was in the autopsy report.

  50. 2dogs

    That being said, I think the McCloskeys would be likely to cite People v. Kirk in their defence.

  51. HT

    Not sure about the laws in Missouri, but I recall they are very pro-gun and the shooting of intruders. But dude, they both should be compelled by the courts to undertake weapons training! As an retired soldier, the weapon handling on display during that interaction was, no shit, the worst I have EVER seen, including as seen in Hollywood movies…

    It’s a miracle no one got shot, themselves included.

  52. Georgy Boy wasn’t murdered. He committed suicide by taking a lethal dose of Fentanyl.
    That was in the autopsy report.

    Oh dear. Big Brother said that post was double plus good, Winston Smith.

  53. grumpy

    @ HT
    Patricia McCloskey’s pistol wasn’t capable of shooting anyone and they both knew it.

  54. Bad Samaritan

    CL (6.52pm) Where are these radio transcripts?

  55. People v. Kirk

    The McCloskeys were not being personally threatened. People were walking past their house peacefully. There is no evidence to justify brandishing a weapon at peaceful citizens.

  56. Hodor

    If a heap of that type of hoodlums broke my front gate and entered they would run the gauntlet of the dogs first, then Mr L Enfield,
    Survivors would be shot again.

  57. The McCloskeys were not being personally threatened. People were walking past their house peacefully. There is no evidence to justify brandishing a weapon at peaceful citizens.

    You are off your head you fucking lunatic.

    They broke into a gated community and shouted threats of rape. They are prima facie guilty of wilful damage, break and enter/trespass and most importantly affray (if under NSW law).

    Like it has said before, this is plain from the legislation.

    No judge will give you a pass because the DPP can’t prove there is any case law saying a private road isn’t exempt from trespass, you mouth breathing front bar urger.

  58. HT

    grumpy
    #3522162, posted on July 23, 2020 at 9:19 am
    @ HT
    Patricia McCloskey’s pistol wasn’t capable of shooting anyone and they both knew it.

    Wilfully ignoring the AK15 are we?

    I have no problem with them defending their home and themselves from a maniacal crowd. But if your going to brandish weapons, learn weapon handling 101. Their weapon handling was a menace to themselves and others, and it could have ended really, really badly…

  59. Rex Anger

    @ Hodor-

    Fix Swords? 😉

    You’d comfortably out-reach practically anything with the standard bayonet for even a No.1 Mk III.

  60. Frank

    … again we have a public official responsible for upholding law and order wink at a mob while treating law-abiding citizens as criminals.

    The public officials did considerably more than wink at the mob. They were disarmed and threatened with prosecution. Sort of setting them up for another encounter with the mob while fixing the game to the mob’s advantage.

    Sinn Fein and the IRA springs to mind.

  61. thefrollickingmole

    Monty..

    Heres Mother Jones, that radical right wing mob, whining the couples activities were legal…

    Now go eat a bag of dicks.

    The St. Louis Gun Couple Can Stand Their Ground on a Racist Legal Doctrine

    When the McCloskeys padded out onto their driveway with their guns, looking like country clubbers newly deployed into the fields of An Lộc, they could count on the impunity extended to them under what’s known as the Castle Doctrine. This was a common-law principle, only recently enshrined into civil law, that says that one’s home is one’s castle, and that an owner has the right to defend it with force. Because protesters were on private property, the McCloskeys could freely take aim. In fact, after the incident, the police told the St. Louis Dispatch they were investigating the protesters—not the McCloskeys—for trespassing and intimidation.

    Of course the lefty rag says defending you property is racist because of their feelz, but nothing more.
    A link in the piece to a lawyer also sets out the basic legislation, so knock yourself out.

  62. Sinclair Davidson

    I’m not convinced George Floyd was “murdered.”
    Chauvin did not arrive on that scene intending to unlawfully kill him for the benefit of his many videographers.

    Yes – I get that. But that bullshit lawyer talk.

  63. PB

    I’m sure there are by now many Melburnians who would have liked to have been better able to defend their homes.

  64. This was a common-law principle, only recently enshrined into civil law, that says that one’s home is one’s castle, and that an owner has the right to defend it with force.

    It would be a subversion of that law to use it to justify homicide on a road. Roads are not castles. Good to see you admit there is no case law testing that particular circumstance, moleman.

  65. 2dogs

    People v. Kirk

    The McCloskeys were not being personally threatened.

    Neither was Kirk.

  66. 2dogs

    Although, the McCloskeys can view trespassing as a threat. I have certainly felt threatened when my home was invaded.

    Under the statute, the prosecutor has the burden of proof against the McCloskeys on the threat.

  67. Neither was Kirk.

    LOL so you reckon the McCloskeys were waving their guns around to stop the mob raping the mayor? This does not help your argument, 2dogs.

    The protestors were not there for the McCloskeys. There were no rape threats, they made those up.

    I suppose you lot would rather talk about this than 130,000 dead.

  68. Rex Anger

    @ mUnted the Mob-lover-

    Funny how you keep shifting the goalposts here, troll.

    Fact- Angry mob trespassed on McCloskey property.

    Fact- Angry mobs in US in last 4 months tend to pillage and burn everything they like the look of on the way to their target. Not just the target itself

    Fact- Credible threats wrre made to both the McCloskeys’ life and property.

    Fact- Brandishing their firearms was sufficient to keep the mob at bay

    Fact- The City’s DA and wokerati chose to try and punish them for regusing to comply with the Narrative. Said wokerati were told to get stuffed by the State authorities.

    Fiction- The Protesters were peaceful

    Fiction- Every MSM lie you’ve tried to repeat here

    FantasyEvery switch and flip and attempt to shift and reframe and dodge the refutations of your original your trolling implications that you have engaged in since you started commenting on this thread, mUnted. And every attempt to slither out of the traps you set yourself.

    Now go away and sulk.

  69. Hahaha Rex, don’t drive angry.

  70. 2dogs

    LOL so you reckon the McCloskeys were waving their guns around to stop the mob raping the mayor?

    Not at all. The precedent with People v Kirk is implied excuses.

    The protestors were not there for the McCloskeys.

    The McCloskeys did not know that. Which is what matters for the statute.

  71. 2dogs

    Again, speaking from my own experience of home invasion, it is the fact that you know someone is intent on behaving illegally – which you discern from the trespassing – that makes them seem threatening. If they are lawbreaking than one is clearly in peril of being a victim of that lawbreaking.

    The only way I would see that such a threat might be allayed is if the trespasser was expressly apologetic for the trespassing, and expressly indicated they were merely passing through.

    If the crowd had apologetically indicated to the McCloskey that they were only on the way to the mayor, I imagine he would have let them know that they couldn’t get there from the private street they were on. But that didn’t happen.

  72. Rex Anger

    Hahaha Rex, don’t drive angry.

    I don’t mUntz.

    Don’t live stupid. I agree it’s hard when you’re in Danograd, but life without TDS or being leftarded is far better than with…

  73. EllenG

    I don’t know why people here don’t simply look at the many videos. All show what happened. None shows a single person approaching the mc lost keys. The armed man does all the shouting. His wife fingers the trigger while pointing the gun at people. There’s no sign if anything broken. No trampling on the lawn even. Nothing to warrant two ratbags threatening people with serious weapons.
    Sorry. But I simply don’t get it. It’s like getting a military weapon out when the crowd leaves the SCG (though I admit bombers fans can often be drug crazed).

  74. Jannie

    Link to Viva Frei and Robert Barnes discussing case. The prosecutor is obviously political.

  75. Frank

    EllenG

    There’s no sign if anything broken.

    The gate was broken wasn’t it.

    No trampling on the lawn even.

    Maybe because they saw the two ragbags with the serious military weapons and thought better of it. Just a thought.

  76. rickw

    Munty, I wouldn’t want to be your wife and kids, first sign of trouble you’d just walk off, “case law n all that, can’t lift a finger” or some other douche comment.

  77. No trampling on the lawn even.

    No, they just threatened RAPE, but EllenG is a pro rape, anti-Catholic, left wing conspiracy nutter.

  78. Old Lefty

    Mind you, the account the McCluskeys’ neighbours give of them is not very flattering

  79. flyingduk

    It’s a miracle no one got shot, themselves included.

    The guns were both unloaded, it would have been a miracle if anyone WAS shot.

  80. flyingduk

    Wilfully ignoring the AK15 are we?

    AK 15?? If that aint a spellcheck error its the funniest slam dunk for ‘I dont know anything about guns’ for a long time!

  81. Lee

    EllenG
    There’s no sign if anything broken.

    The gate was broken wasn’t it.

    It is a gated community, so the mob were breaking the law by being there without any residents’ permission.

  82. Wilfully ignoring the AK15 are we?

    They threatened to RAPE her.

    For fucks sake you lunatic.

    “Weapon handling 101..”

    They should count their blessings they weren’t all legally shot in self defence.

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